Hate Crimes: Should we have them?

Yeah, I wanted to check that later. The idea of killing them is kind of "well it is good for the goose" type of thought.

Isn't it racist to hold up one, or even several, race/s as superior to another? If not, then what exactly is the point? If it IS, then they ARE racist, by definition! Just like the idea that if 10 or so people happen to take a test and 2 are black, that at least ONE black must be able to pass! GIVE ME A BREAK! Saying that test was racist SIMPLY because most people passed and no blacks did is racist!

Supreme Court rules for white firefighters in New Haven case, overturning Sotomayor's ruling - MassLive.com

And the only ones not considered a "protected class" are white males. I didn't specify that, the supporters of the "hate crimes" did! Sorry!

I don't know WHY it went off the air, but there was a series:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0494185/

If a person changes their apparent race group, they should NOT be treated differently, judged differently, or given different benefits! PERIOD!

steve

But with the legislation for hate crimes, its not just mentioning to make aware. When a crime is designated as a hate crime it carries stronger penalties.

To me, it sounds like trying to legislate thought. You can't tell people they can't hate someone, or for what reasons.

Any rational U.S. person can not fault an older black man from blowing off some steam.

Rational people understand that, and it was/is no big deal to them.

The only people that had a big problem with Rev Wright were/are people who are looking for an excuse to accuse a black guy of racism and also somehow hurt Obama.

TL

Frankly, I think the palestinians got a bad shake ALSO! If I were king say 12+ years ago, I would have just cut Israel off. NO MORE AID! Heck, they got a LOT of aid from the US. For their size and resources, they may have gotten more aid than any other country EVER got from the US.

So why the difference NOW? Because the muslims attacked, etc.... Discontinuing Israeli aid at this point would be seen as capitulation, and would make them PRAISE osama. Ironic, but true. Who knows? Osama may actually be RESPONSIBLE for helping out Israel!

Steve

Oh perhaps because you continually use the ADL as your reference point for antiracism. ADL are one of the biggest racist organizations going and they are thugs to boot. Their job is to smear anyone who remotely criticizes Israel or Jews - though they are not above formenting antisemitism if it suits their purpose. Gits even tried to smear the survivors of the USS Liberty. They are liars and thugs passing themselves off as reasonable men. Their more "active" counterpart the JDL recently trashed a Paris bookstore because they had the temerity to host a Palestinian speaker. They are banned in the US because well...it's hard to get the money from people if they can see you are naught but racist thugs. And without your money they are impotent.

Just like those who campaign against illegal immigrants have to contend with erroneous slurs of "racism" by those who either don't understand the word (most campaigners have nothing against Hispanics, they certainly don't hate them, it's the illegals they are concerned with no matter where they come from), or use it in a manner designed to cow people into silence, same thing happen with "antisemitism". That's it. If we become afraid of speaking against injustice because we are afraid of being called nasty names we may as well throw in the towel.

Oh there is more than a boycott going on Tim, and it's gone far beyond putting a bit of pressure on them. I wasn't bullshitting when I said Israel (and perhaps the USA) would not be at the Olympics. A call for a BDS went out in 2005 and it takes time to consider it as it's a very serious thing. Only been done 3 times - against the Nazi Olympics, which wasn't too successful, against Apartheid South Africa - took a while but it played a significant part in breaking them - and now Israel. This is not a political thing. They will be essentially shunned by the world. Nobody can buy from them, invest with them, no cultural exchanges, sporting or academic links. Zip. Nada. They cease to exist to the rest of the world. Anyone who deals with them also suffers by association. Almost a collective walking out of the room, if you like.

The "Yes Men" (both Jewish) pulled their film from the Jerusalem film Festival, here's their letter explaining why they had no choice. The more this gathers pace, the more you'll see of this type of stand and pop concerts will be held etc. Remember the old "Free Nelson Mandela" gigs? Hell, people will protest just to seem 'right on' even if they haven't a clue what it's about.

Each area of the boycott is defined clearly, so you can see why they don't do it lightly. It seems to be the dockers who kick things off...it was the Danes who did it for South Africa by refusing to unload their ships and they went from port to port unable to unload. This time the South African dockers were first to refuse the unloading of an Israeli vessel. Kinda poetic.

www.bdsmovement.net explains the why and the how.

The reason I tell jews to take their head out of their ass is because the "ordinary" Jew ends up getting the blame for the "Master Race" bullshit the Zionists are indulging in. They need to speak out and be visible, because lets face it "Joe Public" ain't the brightest tools in the box and they cannot differentiate between ordinary Jews and those who have hijacked their religion for racist purposes. Thankfully the National Independant Jewish Voices of Canada have joined the boycott and as they have many "chapters" in that country that's a huge help. Most of the World Jewry councils are more rightwing - and yes, racist. Problem is they claim to speak for all Jews so the Jewish groups in Canada are doing fabulous work. The Zionists are out in force there though - the Canadian Union Of Postal Workers are also calling for BDS and they are being accused of...can you guess?

I'm just thrilled Naomi Klein is onboard. She rocks!

Well good luck with that Tim. Kind of envy you as I'd be there like a shot if I could. No I'm not far left but I'm seemingly becoming more activist which ticks me off. Thought I'd left that drama behind in my youth.

You are unlikely to get in though. It is, as they say, a concentration camp, and even if you are not intending to go to Gaza itself you'll go only where the Israelis permit. Did you not read Cynthia McKinneys letter from an Israeli jail - it was all over the net. Who else could kidnap a humanitarian vessel in international waters and get away with it? If that had been Iran we'd have been in WW3 now. Israel believes it can get away with anything it likes - because until now, we've allowed it.

Tim, I'll try and be gentle here because I know you genuinely believe that. I did once (and lets be honest, if those were white boys they'd have - rightly - been pillioried for their behaviour, drunk or not. Because they are of a certain group, people make excuses.) It seems inconceivable that such as they could think like that so we'll brush it off as some abherrant behaviour. Those guys were Americans (dual citizens), but I doubt they'd be arrested on their return even though threatening a President is illegal.

You might be interested in the filmaker who made it (Jewish - I find it necessary to add that to head off any suspicion it was some troublemaker goading them). The Huffington Post wouldn't publish it - the first time he'd been censored. He gives a good insight into the paranoia and endemic racism that's now rampant in Israel. (That's more worrisome than Iran btw - these guys are sitting on an estimated 200 nukes. You don't want the 4th largest military in the world batshit crazy with Old Testament bloodlust. )

What would you think if people in the USA started demanding a "Whites Only" State? Bit like Hitlers intended Ayran Nation yes? You'll let others live amongst you but they can't have full rights without the correct racial purity. A Jewish State is exactly the same thing, and if you read the speech given at Israel Apartheid Week below you'll see why the Afrikaans admired the Israeli model so much. It went much much farther than S.A. ever dared, and they've gotten away with it for over 60 years.

The Israeli Jews fighting against it are like the anti-apartheid whites in South Africa...they know they'll suffer with a boycott but it must be done. They want it too. Those poor *******s are beaten and thrown in jail. The refuseniks who won't join the army also suffer greatly. There are many of them, but they are very much the minority.

The Knesset are in the process of passing a law to ban commemoration of The Nakba, the Palestinian Holocaust, with the threat of 3 years in prison. Now imagine if we decided to outlaw commemoration of the Jewish Holocaust. How would Israel react? Exactly.

Read this speech from Israeli Apartheid Week and then this one (on the Best Seller List in Israel for 19 weeks) and see if you still think the same. There can never be peace unless those issues are addressed. Could anyone bar a racist supremacist want that monstrosity to stay as it is? We know why the religious would want it, but as you'll understand from that latter link, the religious are just pawns in Imperialist games.

Tim, criticism of Israel has never ever been about politics. It's about the most virulent form of racism since the Nazis were around - indeed many Jews, Israeli or otherwise, have called it like it is. It has to stop if people really care about racism. A people are being coldly exterminated and the World sits by. (Does the fact that Gaza sits on huge gas reserves have anything to do with this I wonder?)

The people have decided to act on their own (European Court Of Human Rights has just said it's illegal to boycott the Israelis as it's a "hate crime". LOLOL. Won't make any difference. You may be proud to know the Irish Trade Unions are onboard.) Hampshire College has become the first academic establishment in the USA to divest of Israeli investments, just as it was the first to divest of South African. Yay them!

This issue is the very epitome of "hate crime". It is the Zionists who have convinced people - including many ordinary Jews - that they were merely a politicized form of Judaism which has obscured the truth for so long.

Question is, once they are isolated, what will happen with you guys? If you are still financing them, then the world will refuse to deal with you. I doubt that Governments will have the bottle, but this is a peoples movement so it'll likely have an economic impact on you guys as well.

No matter where you are on the political spectrum this is something anyone who believes in antiracism should become involved with. Even if you are religious - especially if you are religious! This is a hate crime that encompasses all others, and we collude unless we stop it. For obvious reasons I consider it vital that Jews get involved. There are plenty so far, but the more the better. Interestingly, the Presbyterian and Lutheran churches in the US have come on board. (I don't believe they'll ever get the Evangelists though. Wonder if they know many Palestinians are actually Christian? :rolleyes

Valid point - I believe in hate crime legislation because when Matthew Sheppard died - the crime didn't. It sent a horrible message to other gay people that this could happen to them just because they are gay. Not because they were in the wrong place at the wrong moment, not because they pissed someone off, not because they had an affair...but simply because they are gay. That is one reason why hate crimes are so heinous - it is an attack on a community not just the victim.

Also not all hate crimes end in death - assaults that were born out of prejudice are significantly more psychologically disturbing to victims. So in my opinion they should be treated more strictly than normal assaults.

If you punch someone in the face...you get a different charge than if you club someone over the head with a pipe. Why? Because what you did was more dangerous and damaging. Just because the damage of a hate crime doesn't show itself in cuts and bruises doesn't mean it is not more destructive.

:confused: A hate crime isn't about who you attack it is about why you attack them. I have said that over and over again, and the FBI quote backs that up.

If you rape a woman because she is jewish - then yes you should face a stiffer fine. For the reasons that have been stated in this thread already.

The old crime is a crime argument - I mean just because you guys bring it up over and over again doesn't make it true.

I have pointed this out before but I will break down 2 main reasons why the crime is a crime statement is not a valid argument:

1. Motive IS judged by the courts quite often. Motive can go a long way in differentiating between degrees of murder charges.

2. In this case motive needs to be proven because if it is - the crime is more heinous and damaging. The reason motive doesn't have to be proven in other types of cases is because it doesn't usually matter. When it comes to a hate crime it does matter, because if the crime was motivated by prejudice:

• The victim will suffer far worse psychological damage
• The attack on one person is an attack on that community that creates terror and fear in a large amount of people at once

Dear god, is that the level of your rebuttal?

You don't think at all Michael.

Not too bright are ya fella? Calling Jewish organizations racist whackjobs for fighting racism carried out in their name? Real smart. :rolleyes:

The BDS movement is an official movement (albeit a peoples and 'labor' movement) and it's thanks to them that South African apartheid was ended. Try clicking a damn link next time.
Global BDS Movement

Hope you don't sell anything to people outside the USA. In the not to distant future you may find they avoid buying from you because the boycott extends to those who aid and abet - as the French firm Veolia just found out. It was unable to get European contracts because of it's links with the Jerusalem Railway so had to drop them. If they can't replace the contracts they'll no doubt cut jobs. Motorola is currently being hit.

BDS means if you support racism then there is a price to pay. To the rest of the world YOU become the racist whackjobs.

One question: Why are you so filled with hate?

LOL.

I'm telling you, I'm actually a really nice guy. Really.

No need to worry about being snippy, I was too.

We may not agree on the issue, but that's okay. You'll notice I'm not backing down or waffling or whatever you want to call it. However, I'm trying to be more civil in my tone.

I still think the OT brings out some of the worst in people, and that's something I never like to see. Life is too short for me to act like a _____ (feel free to fill in the blank with the word of your choice).



All the best,
Michael

Name 5, and I betcha hate is still at the root of all of them.