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Awesome video from a very smart women expressing her opinion of the Gates arrest:

Uppity Blacks vs Blue Collar Whites: Shame on Prof.Gates - iReport.com

I've never heard of her before now, but I'm quickly becoming a big fan. I think she nailed it.

I realize this could easily turn political, but I see it as a issue of right or wrong - by the police making the arrest... so try not to veer into the political side of it.

Do you think the cops were right or wrong in the arrest?
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    I think the cops did what they were supposed to do. And im sorry, but racial profiling is required per case.

    If a call comes in about a possible robbery and the person that called in says 'i saw two black men breaking in a house' and the cops show up and there's a black man around the same area, who when asked for id becomes beligerent and argumentative, the police have no choice but to detain him.

    If I were in an area where someone had just called police and reported a robbery in progress by a tall good looking white guy...i would expect to get detained and questioned when the police showed up.

    The cops have to do their job, if they didnt the same people that gripe beacause they are being profiled, would be griping at the cops later for not doing their job when the robbers came back later
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    When anti-racism gets so ridiculous that we are not even allowed to suspect anyone of a crime because of their color, then I'd say our attempt at intergration is a major failure.
    It's time at that point to divide the country up into sections and throw everyone of certain colors in their own section and treat them like separate countries - like Europe was before the EU. We could work together to keep things running - but wouldn't have to deal with all the BS that we are going through - political correctness, etc.

    I'm calling nibs on the NW for us white folk!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


      I'm calling nibs on the NW for us white folk!
      Hmmmm.....think we could vote on that first?
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    Excellent comments Michael and Heysal. I totally agree.

    I'll be honest, I was in a similar situation when I was a kid (about 19 yrs old). A police officer pulled me over, I thought I was a smart ass and gave him all kinds of back-talk, and he hauled me in! And guess what, I deserved it! I do feel bad about that now.

    The truth is, the police don't have to stand there while someone cusses at them and insults them.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Good video Mike.
      I saw an interview with Gates on the Today show the other day.
      They ought to drop the disturbing the peace charge and instead charge him with being an idiot.
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    • Profile picture of the author josephmorris90
      Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

      The truth is, the police don't have to stand there while someone cusses at them and insults them.
      Especially with their salary and risky situations that they have to perform daily.
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  • Profile picture of the author vinspore
    Ya, I think that whole arrest is being blown out of proportion. Give it to the media to make a mountain over a mole hill.

    I think it is he that is in the wrong, not the cops.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Michael Ellis,

    You are WRONG! It could NOT easily become political! IMPOSSIBLE! WHY do I say that? EASY! It STARTED by being political. Obama opened his stupid mouth yet AGAIN to say the officer acted "stupidly"! Gates WANTED this! He probably PLANNED it! He has gone on the talk show circuit, AND is "teaching" it in his "class"! CNN even put him on their black in america 2 special!

    Police have threatened to SHOOT ME for LESS! I would NEVER act as gates did! Not for whites, and CERTAINLY not for blacks!

    Supposedly a PASSER BY reported him as a POSSIBLE breakin because he was having obvious trouble. Was the passer by to RISK HIS LIFE by checking up on things? Was the OFFICER to RISK HIS LIFE by approaching him? The police officer acted according to SOP! REGARDLESS of race! A white officer would have treated ME the same way! A BLACK should have treated HIM the same way.

    They would have arrested ME, so WHY NOT arrest GATES?!?!?!?

    As for that woman? I LOVE IT! She obviously has a good head on her shoulders, and is HONEST! If only OBAMA did as well. The sad part is that she may be making less than Gates is, but is clearly more worthy than he is.

    NOW, let's look at it from the LIBERAL view, and PRO GATES!!!!!!! He CLAIMS a white would NOT have been treated that way. PLEASE, LET'S get a white, and tell him it is OK to STEAL from gates! After all, if a BLACK man should be FREE from suspicion, WHY NOT a WHITE man!?!? OK, gates ends up BROKE!!!!!!! Hey, let's be FAIR! Let's tell a BLACK to steal from gates! Gates said blacks should NOT be suspected! OK, SAME STORY! Gates gets robbed! HELL, why not CUT OUT THE MIDDLE MAN! Mr. Gates! PLEASE SELL EVERYTHING! Setup a bank account and put ALL money in it! PM me, and I will tell you how to set it up! You can apologize, I can take your money, and all will be forgiven! He should be HAPPY that police are there to PROTECT HIS PROPERTY!

    Some JERK said that Gates DESERVED to be arrested, etc... but STILL, SOMEHOW, has a case, and should sue! ANOTHER said the officer was ARMED, and gates was 50yo and UNARMED, so the police officer had NO right to be afraid. They are TAUGHT to act that way, and gates could have been a 4yo GIRL, and STILL had a GLOCK! WHO KNOWS?

    BTW did you know it is AGAINST THE LAW to cuss to a DMV clerk in California? Why does gates believe that a POLICE OFFICER should be given less respect!?!?!?

    If I were king, I would throw him in jail for treason, misappropriating public funds, inciting riots, disturbing the peace, etc.... I would fine him for not properly teaching a reasonable class, etc.... He CLAIMS that he was a victim because of his color. WRONG! He used it as a WEAPON!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Thank God you are not King! If I were King I would make you the royal holder of my piss bucket.


      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      If I were king, I would throw him in jail for treason, misappropriating public funds, inciting riots, disturbing the peace, etc.... I would fine him for not properly teaching a reasonable class, etc....
      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Thank God you are not King! If I were King I would make you the royal holder of my piss bucket.

        YouTube - mel brooks piss shoe
        No you wouldn't! I would dump it ALL OVER YOU!
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  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
    The cops did act stupidly. What was the crime? Yelling at a cop? In your own home? Come on. Yelling does not mean disorderly conduct. Charges were dropped because he was wrong. It's as simple as that.

    Was it racial profiling? Probably yes, by the neighbor. No by the cop. The cop just made a bad stupid decision. That doesn't mean he is a bad cop though, just that he acted stupidly as Gates likely did also.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

      The cops did act stupidly. What was the crime? Yelling at a cop? In your own home? Come on. Yelling does not mean disorderly conduct. Charges were dropped because he was wrong. It's as simple as that.

      Was it racial profiling? Probably yes, by the neighbor. No by the cop. The cop just made a bad stupid decision. That doesn't mean he is a bad cop though, just that he acted stupidly as Gates likely did also.
      Not quite as simple as that, Tim.

      First, most all disorderly conduct cases are dismissed. Look it up.

      Second, he wasn't just yelling.

      Third, you cannot blatantly disrespect police officers by not doing what they ask (especially when you could be a potential suspect) and calling them and their mother names. You just can't, and it doesn't matter what color your skin is. All the cop asked for was ID.

      And FYI - People committing disorderly conduct aren't usually whispering.

      As I said before, I was hauled in for disorderly conduct because of my loud mouth (even though I DID provide my ID), and I deserved it 100%. Now, maybe the cop didn't like husky guys, and maybe I missed my chance to write a book about it... but come on!

      The crazy part is, the cop was there because someone saw a black male trying to open a window with a bar... and yet, it turns out there WAS a black male that did just that! How is the cop so wrong for asking him to show some ID??? How could the homeowner get so furious at someone trying to protect HIS home?!?

      And for the racial profiling of the neighbor? Yea, he should have just lied and said that he saw white male breaking in the window. It's a completely wrong statement that could have confused the cops and Gates and anyone else looking into the situation, but at least he would have dodged the racial profiling accusation... better yet, the neighbor should have just ignored it. That's the neighborly thing to do.

      I stand by the smart lady in the video in my OP... she sums it up much more intelligently than I can.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Yes, actually it is as simple as that. Yelling at a cop, while you are home isn't disorderly conduct. At least not in Massachussets.

        What else was he doing besides yelling? He showed him his identification. Was he threatening him with his cane? No. He was asking for his name and badge number.

        Were you inside your own home when you were arrested Michael?

        The cop wasn't wrong for asking for the ID. He was wrong to take it personally and arrest the guy, knowing that he was the owner of the home.

        The smart lady in the video is an opportunist. Why else would she use the racist term "uppity blacks" in her title? "uppity blacks against blue collar workers" What BS. Shame on her. That's one of the main reasons she is getting so many views. White racists just love to read about uppity blacks. Take away that title and her attention would be a fraction of what it is.

        Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

        Not quite as simple as that, Tim.

        First, most all disorderly conduct cases are dismissed. Look it up.

        Second, he wasn't just yelling.

        Third, you cannot blatantly disrespect police officers by not doing what they ask (especially when you could be a potential suspect) and calling them and their mother names. You just can't, and it doesn't matter what color your skin is. All the cop asked for was ID.

        And FYI - People committing disorderly conduct aren't usually whispering.

        As I said before, I was hauled in for disorderly conduct because of my loud mouth (even though I DID provide my ID), and I deserved it 100%. Now, maybe the cop didn't like husky guys, and maybe I missed my chance to write a book about it... but come on!

        The crazy part is, the cop was there because someone saw a black male trying to open a window with a bar... and yet, it turns out there WAS a black male that did just that! How is the cop so wrong for asking him to show some ID??? How could the homeowner get so furious at someone trying to protect HIS home?!?

        And for the racial profiling of the neighbor? Yea, he should have just lied and said that he saw white male breaking in the window. It's a completely wrong statement that could have confused the cops and Gates and anyone else looking into the situation, but at least he would have dodged the racial profiling accusation... better yet, the neighbor should have just ignored it. That's the neighborly thing to do.

        I stand by the smart lady in the video in my OP... she sums it up much more intelligently than I can.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Yes, actually it is as simple as that. Yelling at a cop, while you are home isn't disorderly conduct. At least not in Massachussets.

          What else was he doing besides yelling? He showed him his identification. Was he threatening him with his cane? No. He was asking for his name and badge number.
          He was accusing the cop of racism, and originally did NOT give his ID.

          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          The cop wasn't wrong for asking for the ID. He was wrong to take it personally and arrest the guy, knowing that he was the owner of the home.
          GATES made it personal!

          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          The smart lady in the video is an opportunist. Why else would she use the racist term "uppity blacks" in her title? "uppity blacks against blue collar workers" What BS. Shame on her. That's one of the main reasons she is getting so many views. White racists just love to read about uppity blacks. Take away that title and her attention would be a fraction of what it is.
          SURE she used the opportunity! You know why!?!?!? AW, do you want a HINT!?!?!? She said it in the title, and basically made it clear in the video!

          SHE doesn't see the world as black and white! She tried to DISASSOCIATE herself from blacks like gates! WHY!?!?!?!? She is black TOO, right? WRONG!

          She looked at the people as COLORLESS! She didn't see HIM as black, and a victim! She saw him as some "upper class" JERK that just HAPPENED to have black skin and thought he was BETTER than the cop because the COP was BLUE COLLAR! LIKEWISE, SHE sees HERSELF as blue collar! Her POINT!?!?!? Her AGENDA!?!?!?

          Do the REAL liberal thing! Do the RIGHT thing! Treat people the same way! GRANTED, there was a veiled accusation that the police didn't do their job ELSEWHERE, but that is another story. She wants people to just be treated RIGHT!

          Maybe THAT is why people like kurt and I say she spoke so eloquently, etc. This was probably NOT her first take. She probably took her time and may EVEN have scripted it. Still, she was RIGHT and HONEST and THAT is how ALL Americans should think!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Tim even in Mass. if you are impeding a police officer in the investigation of a possible crime you can be arrested.
            That was what Gates was doing from the moment the officer arrived at the scene.
            Right from the beginning he expected the officer to take his word on who he was and became more belligerent when the officer asked for ID.
            The cop followed him into his home when he went for his ID because he is still considered a possible suspect in a reported possible crime until he shows his ID.
            All the cop did was follow normal procedures that any good police officer would do anywhere in the US.
            I'll always be one of the first to criticize a police officer or department for acting like they are above the law or getting out of line.
            In this case the officer was 100% justified in what he did.
            Also Obama was 100% out of line with his comments on the incident, and to me showed his prejudice against whites and police officers.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

      The cops did act stupidly. What was the crime? Yelling at a cop? In your own home? Come on. Yelling does not mean disorderly conduct. Charges were dropped because he was wrong. It's as simple as that.

      Was it racial profiling? Probably yes, by the neighbor. No by the cop. The cop just made a bad stupid decision. That doesn't mean he is a bad cop though, just that he acted stupidly as Gates likely did also.
      It was NOT his own home as far as SOP and the cop were concerned! The police do NOT have 100% up to date records of all places in the US, and certainly do NOT have the cameras, software, spy equipment, etc... necessary to determine it was gates and, even if they DID, they could NEVER trust it 100%! Does ANYONE!?!?!?!? I mean THINK ABOUT IT! Even the top of the line software needs to see certain features, and lock on. It would be illegal and just STUPID! Also, a talk show host brought up a GOOD point! Maybe gates WAS there and the robbers had him try to deter the cops so THEY wouldn't be arrested.

      They were trying to break in, as far as ANYONE was concerned, so there was NO real profiling, PERIOD!!!!!! He followed the law, and did his job. HEY, I would have been upset ALSO! At least *I* would not consider it RACIST! EVEN if the officer were black, I would wait until he or she actually DID something racist!

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

      The cops did act stupidly. What was the crime? Yelling at a cop? In your own home? Come on. Yelling does not mean disorderly conduct. Charges were dropped because he was wrong. It's as simple as that.

      Was it racial profiling? Probably yes, by the neighbor. No by the cop. The cop just made a bad stupid decision. That doesn't mean he is a bad cop though, just that he acted stupidly as Gates likely did also.
      1. Gates followed the cop outside yelling at him. Thats when it became disturbing the peace.

      2. How is it racial profiling? The call was '2 black men were kicking in the door to a house'. Its racial profiling to give a detailed description of who is committing the crime?


      Now Gates says he wants to let bygones be bygones, obama has invited them both to the whitehouse for a beer.

      What that really means is that obama's people have told him he is digging himself into a hole, and gates has probably seen/heard the tapes and knows he doesnt have a leg to stand on. I would say that if there was any hint of racism in this, gates and people like rev. jackson and al sharpton would be on tv 24/7 crying about the in justices of the last 400 years on the poor harvard professor. But now that they see they cant get blood out of this stone, you'll notice you havent heard a damn thing out of either one of them on this matter.

      Now, whats good for the goose is good for the gander...i distinctly remember not too long ago that don imus was all but crucified and lost his job over a 'minor' comment. Well, sounds like its time for the prof to start packing and the pres to start apologizing.
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  • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
    I just wonder why he still got arrested AFTER he showed his ID. Weird. The cops should have left at that point. I don't blame them for showing up because they had to respond, but no matter how rude someone is once they prove the own the house - just leave. Even if the house owner is a pompous ass.

    In the hate crime thread you were all saying that we can't legislate thought. So you can share your prejudice thoughts while beating down someone - but you can't share your thoughts when Cops are mistakenly investigating you?

    We live in a world where you can't disagree with the police? Worse yet you get arrested for daring to question an officer who is making a mistake?

    I don't even care about the alleged racial bias here - I don't believe there was any. It's the fact that we do not live in a police state. You see the ID - get out of there - your job is done. Luckily his superiors knew he was wrong as well and apologized and dropped the charges.

    Cambridge police are well known to be tools so this is no surprise. Instead of superfluous charges on young college kids though - they mistakenly arrested a tenured professor who happens to be friends with the President - makes for a pretty funny story.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      I just wonder why he still got arrested AFTER he showed his ID. Weird. The cops should have left at that point. I don't blame them for showing up because they had to respond, but no matter how rude someone is once they prove the own the house - just leave. Even if the house owner is a pompous ass.

      In the hate crime thread you were all saying that we can't legislate thought. So you can share your prejudice thoughts while beating down someone - but you can't share your thoughts when Cops are mistakenly investigating you?

      We live in a world where you can't disagree with the police? Worse yet you get arrested for daring to question an officer who is making a mistake?

      I don't even care about the alleged racial bias here - I don't believe there was any. It's the fact that we do not live in a police state. You see the ID - get out of there - your job is done. Luckily his superiors knew he was wrong as well and apologized and dropped the charges.

      Cambridge police are well known to be tools so this is no surprise. Instead of superfluous charges on young college kids though - they mistakenly arrested a tenured professor who happens to be friends with the President - makes for a pretty funny story.

      While I am not a huge proponent of many police department, I would suggest in this case you read the submitted police report:

      Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report - July 23, 2009

      While I understand that this report is in the viewpoint of the officer, it is in my opinion that even though the arrest may have been an over reaction, I would hardly say that what the officer did was wrong. Gates had only to show his ID when asked the first time and my guess is the officers would have simply said "have a nice day, Sir" and left.

      Gates was way out of line. It was not a simple case of "disagreeing with the police". I have disagreed with police officers many times over the years, but there's a difference between stating your case and simply shouting and calling the officer a racist. The man acted like some indignant school kid instead of a professor of an ivy league college.

      It's a simple case of being decent to a fellow person and Gates did not.

      Was the arrest necessary? In my view, no. But me - or you - were not there. So it's not for us to say. Only speculate.

      And I agree - Obama should have stayed out of it. The way he runs his mouth, he will talk himself out of re-election.

      Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      I just wonder why he still got arrested AFTER he showed his ID. Weird. The cops should have left at that point. I don't blame them for showing up because they had to respond, but no matter how rude someone is once they prove the own the house - just leave. Even if the house owner is a pompous ass.

      In the hate crime thread you were all saying that we can't legislate thought. So you can share your prejudice thoughts while beating down someone - but you can't share your thoughts when Cops are mistakenly investigating you?
      There was NO mistaking the investigation. Had Gates cooperated, he could have THEN done all he wanted!

      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      We live in a world where you can't disagree with the police? Worse yet you get arrested for daring to question an officer who is making a mistake?
      There was NO disagreement! He was NOT disagreeing with the cop! He NEVER claimed to! He did NOT give the officer information needed to provide him the ability to make a decision. The officer did NOT make a mistake! PERIOD!

      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      I don't even care about the alleged racial bias here - I don't believe there was any. It's the fact that we do not live in a police state. You see the ID - get out of there - your job is done. Luckily his superiors knew he was wrong as well and apologized and dropped the charges.
      He was NEVER shown the ID when he asked! His "superiors" said he acted CORRECTLY! They did NOT apologize! In fact, the entire UNION was looking for GATES to apologize!

      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      Cambridge police are well known to be tools so this is no surprise. Instead of superfluous charges on young college kids though - they mistakenly arrested a tenured professor who happens to be friends with the President - makes for a pretty funny story.
      Funny, I never heard that. I consider the fact that he was friends with the president to be suspicious though!!!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
    The man acted like some indignant school kid instead of a professor of an ivy league college.
    No...that behaviour is exactly how I would expect a tenured professor at an ivy league school to act

    But yeah I have read the police report and heard Gates version - he doesn't shy away from admitting he was a pompous ass. And I wouldn't defend him...I just don't think it should have led to him being arrested. And either did his superiors apparently.

    Seems to me the cop was trying to save face in front of his fellow officers and he got over sensitive and whoops, arrested the wrong guy.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      No...that behaviour is exactly how I would expect a tenured professor at an ivy league school to act

      But yeah I have read the police report and heard Gates version - he doesn't shy away from admitting he was a pompous ass. And I wouldn't defend him...I just don't think it should have led to him being arrested. And either did his superiors apparently.

      Seems to me the cop was trying to save face in front of his fellow officers and he got over sensitive and whoops, arrested the wrong guy.
      I had heard someone say that something like 75% of disorderly conduct charges get dropped. Seems to me they get used merely as a tool to show who the boss is. I wouldn't let the fact that it was dropped in this case make you think that it was for any other reason. Not because the cop was "wrong" - but more because that's the way these charges normally go.

      But I suspect that this same professor would be the first to bitch if someone actually DID break into his home and the police took longer than 5 minutes to respond - he would probably say that the reason they were so slow is because he's a black man in America. You can never do the right thing in the eyes of people with his attitude.

      Arrest necessary or not - the man brought it on himself. The cop was doing what he was supposed to do.

      Mike

      By the way - funny comment on the behavior of ivy league professors - LOL!
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      No...that behaviour is exactly how I would expect a tenured professor at an ivy league school to act

      But yeah I have read the police report and heard Gates version - he doesn't shy away from admitting he was a pompous ass. And I wouldn't defend him...I just don't think it should have led to him being arrested. And either did his superiors apparently.

      Seems to me the cop was trying to save face in front of his fellow officers and he got over sensitive and whoops, arrested the wrong guy.
      Arrested the wrong guy? Do you mean there was ANOTHER guy there and Gates place WAS robbed? If so, it would hurt Gates case all the more, given what he has been saying. You ARE funny! 8-)

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

    Awesome video from a very smart women expressing her opinion of the Gates arrest:

    Uppity Blacks vs Blue Collar Whites: Shame on Prof.Gates - iReport.com

    I've never heard of her before now, but I'm quickly becoming a big fan. I think she nailed it.

    I realize this could easily turn political, but I see it as a issue of right or wrong - by the police making the arrest... so try not to veer into the political side of it.

    Do you think the cops were right or wrong in the arrest?
    Didn't you mention in another post or thread that you are a big fan of Fox News?

    TL
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Didn't you mention in another post or thread that you are a big fan of Fox News?

      TL
      Awesome contribution to the thread! Keep up the good work. LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

        Awesome contribution to the thread! Keep up the good work. LOL

        OK, I withdraw the question.

        TL
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Isn't it obvious this is just a case of three people over-reacting just a bit? Gates, the cop and Obama all could have handled it a little better, and each of them have said so. They are all HUMAN, and they all made MINOR mistakes, nothing that will have a lasting impact on anyone else.

    And in the end, everything is fine. I don't understand why this is still such a big story.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Isn't it obvious this is just a case of three people over-reacting just a bit? Gates, the cop and Obama all could have handled it a little better, and each of them have said so. They are all HUMAN, and they all made MINOR mistakes, nothing that will have a lasting impact on anyone else.

      And in the end, everything is fine. I don't understand why this is still such a big story.
      I'm sure your question was rhetorical, BUT...

      Some people just WANT to cause dissention, etc...

      Some people WANT to be able to use this as a weapon...

      In such cases, they don't WANT to hear anything different!

      The media is FILLED with such people and, of course, "dog bites man" is NOT news.

      Look at "the liberator"(do justice a favor, TL, and GET A NEW NAME)! S/he will take offense if you say s/he is not interested in the truth, but will READILY state a NON-sequitor with the OBVIOUS intent of denigrating an entire group in the same way!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I'm sure your question was rhetorical, BUT...

        Some people just WANT to cause dissention, etc...

        Some people WANT to be able to use this as a weapon...

        In such cases, they don't WANT to hear anything different!

        The media is FILLED with such people and, of course, "dog bites man" is NOT news.

        Look at "the liberator"(do justice a favor, TL, and GET A NEW NAME)! S/he will take offense if you say s/he is not interested in the truth, but will READILY state a NON-sequitor with the OBVIOUS intent of denigrating an entire group in the same way!

        Steve
        ...AND so IS this FORUM.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I'm sure your question was rhetorical, BUT...

        Some people just WANT to cause dissention, etc...

        Some people WANT to be able to use this as a weapon...

        In such cases, they don't WANT to hear anything different!

        The media is FILLED with such people and, of course, "dog bites man" is NOT news.

        Look at "the liberator"(do justice a favor, TL, and GET A NEW NAME)! S/he will take offense if you say s/he is not interested in the truth, but will READILY state a NON-sequitor with the OBVIOUS intent of denigrating an entire group in the same way!

        Steve
        What are you speaking about?

        I'm more than ready to defend any of my positions.

        Point out my non-sequitor(s)

        What entire group have I denigrated? ( I'm taking that charge seriously )

        Help me understand???

        TL


        Ps. Loved the crack about getting a new name.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Isn't it obvious this is just a case of three people over-reacting just a bit? Gates, the cop and Obama all could have handled it a little better, and each of them have said so. They are all HUMAN, and they all made MINOR mistakes, nothing that will have a lasting impact on anyone else.

      And in the end, everything is fine. I don't understand why this is still such a big story.
      No Kurt, I think it could have a lasting impact...
      The problem is people use the term 'racist' as a weapon far too often nowadays. And once that label is applied to you, whether right or wrong, your reputation is impacted negatively.

      Here you have a good cop that did what most of the people polled believe was the right thing to do, yet he was called a racist for it.

      AND...

      As far as having 3 people (Cop, Gates and Obama) agreeing that things could have been handled differently, that isn't the situation today. Currently, we have Obama and the cop saying things could have been done differently on all sides, but Gates is still insisting his arrest was racially motivated. He even said he's willing to meet with Obama and the cop to use this situation as a "racial learning experience" for country. Complete BS.

      The cop is delusional. He acted WAY out of line and threw out the race card when the cop didn't allow him to trample all over him. Good for the cop.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

        No Kurt, I think it could have a lasting impact...
        The problem is people use the term 'racist' as a weapon far too often nowadays. And once that label is applied to you, whether right or wrong, your reputation is impacted negatively.

        Here you have a good cop that did what most of the people polled believe was the right thing to do, yet he was called a racist for it.

        AND...

        As far as having 3 people (Cop, Gates and Obama) agreeing that things could have been handled differently, that isn't the situation today. Currently, we have Obama and the cop saying things could have been done differently on all sides, but Gates is still insisting his arrest was racially motivated. He even said he's willing to meet with Obama and the cop to use this situation as a "racial learning experience" for country. Complete BS.

        The cop is delusional. He acted WAY out of line and threw out the race card when the cop didn't allow him to trample all over him. Good for the cop.
        And, the real reason this is even a story is because the right wing, including you and Fox news, picked up on a little comment by Obama that said the cops acted stupidly, distracting people from the other 98% of the press conference, which was about health care. Obama has said he chose his words poorly. This is nothing but a political move by Rep. to try to control the news cycle for as long as they can. Pure politics.

        Who cares what Gates thinks? He's just after publicity and you are doing nothing but giving him want he wants. I prefer to ignore attention seekers and wouldn't even know who he is if it wasn't for the right wing.

        ON the other hand, the cop in question is the same cop that gave basketball player Reggie Lewis (a black guy) mouth to mouth resuscitation in the 80's, trying to save Lewis' life. IMO, because of this the cop deserves the benefit of the doubt...But this is still only a story because the right-wingers (and Fox news) make it so.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          And, the real reason this is even a story is because the right wing, including you and Fox news, picked up on a little comment by Obama that said the cops acted stupidly, distracting people from the other 98% of the press conference, which was about health care. Obama has said he chose his words poorly. This is nothing but a political move by Rep. to try to control the news cycle for as long as they can. Pure politics.
          Let's be fair here Kurt...

          If Bush (or any Rep.) were the Pres. and made the same comment as Obama, the Libs would be JUST as all over the story. The only difference is it would be on about 15 different news shows and not just one.

          Republicans and Democrats are ALL opportunistic and politically motivated, so let's not be the pot calling the kettle black (as it were). This isn't a case of "poor little democrats getting picked on by those big bad republicans". It goes both ways.

          These are the main reasons I stay away from ANY main stream news media. Both sides couldn't be fair or impartial to save their lives. ALL of it is about politics and making the other side look bad.

          Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

            Let's be fair here Kurt...

            If Bush (or any Rep.) were the Pres. and made the same comment as Obama, the Libs would be JUST as all over the story. The only difference is it would be on about 15 different news shows and not just one.

            Republicans and Democrats are ALL opportunistic and politically motivated, so let's not be the pot calling the kettle black (as it were). This isn't a case of "poor little democrats getting picked on by those big bad republicans". It goes both ways.

            These are the main reasons I stay away from ANY main stream news media. Both sides couldn't be fair or impartial to save their lives. ALL of it is about politics and making the other side look bad.

            Mike
            Hi Mike,

            YOU need to be fair. I am commenting on a specific thread posted under the guise that this wasn't a political thread, yet you admitted it was. And political threads are against the rules of this forum. Mike Ellis has an well-known agenda and he pretending that his motives aren't political, when they clearly are.

            And, I generally agree with Mike Ellis on this topic. However that doesn't mean this thread isn't political and that his intent wasn't political, despite his claim.

            If you were truly being "fair", I should be allowed to give a counter argument to his post, and the motives for a specific thread in a forum, not a generalization, as you posted. I don't need to comment about other political exploits of the media, because that isn't what this thread is about.

            I'm also the only one that presented any EVIDENCE (not opinions or personal stories) that we should take the cop's word for his intentions, based on his past actions.

            I also said Obama was wrong, as is Gates. I stood up for the cop, blamed Obama and Gates, and placed the "blame" for the story on the right wing in this specific instance. Seems to me I'm the most "fair and balanced" person on this thread. Everyone else is making their case upon their well-known party lines, both D and R.

            And here's a point no one has made...It's entirely possible the cop was also wrong in his actions, but the "wrong" wasn't due to racism and that he may have <over> reacted in the same way no matter what the race of the person was...It's very possible he just had a bad day.

            I just don't want to judge what's in the cop's heart, especially considering his history with Reggie Lewis. And to accuse someone of racism without any proof, as Gates did, is just as bad as racism itself. An d it does just as much harm, as it distracts from real cases of racism, like the little boy that cried "Wolf!".
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Everyone else is making their case upon their well-known party lines, both D and R.
              Pretty general statement there Kurt, seeing how I'm not affiliated or partial to either party.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                Pretty general statement there Kurt, seeing how I'm not affiliated or partial to either party.
                Quit knit-picking. This isn't a written contract. Take things for their intended meaning and accept that this is "conversational".

                But just to make you feel better, I'll ammend my statement to add "virutally all" people have commented per their known party lines. Feel better?
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Quit knit-picking. This isn't a written contract. Take things for their intended meaning and accept that this is "conversational".

                  But just to make you feel better, I'll ammend my statement to add "virutally all" people have commented per their known party lines. Feel better?
                  So what, you are the only one here allowed to knit-pick?
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post


              Mike Ellis has an well-known agenda and he pretending that his motives aren't political, when they clearly are.

              And, I generally agree with Mike Ellis on this topic. However that doesn't mean this thread isn't political and that his intent wasn't political, despite his claim.
              Now your a mind reader huh Kurt? What agenda do I have? Tell me.

              You and I have gone back and forth about the election, so you think my sole intension in life now is to come over here and waste my time pushing the Republican cause? Give me a break!

              You don't like my comments because you associate me with being a Republican. Too bad. I don't care. Everyone has their own right to think whatever they want. Live and let live. Try it sometime.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

                Now your a mind reader huh Kurt? What agenda do I have? Tell me.

                You and I have gone back and forth about the election, so you think my sole intension in life now is to come over here and waste my time pushing the Republican cause? Give me a break!

                You don't like my comments because you associate me with being a Republican. Too bad. I don't care. Everyone has their own right to think whatever they want. Live and let live. Try it sometime.

                Michael,

                Are you up for some type of "hipocrite of the year" award? Ease up buddy, you already have my vote.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          And, the real reason this is even a story is because the right wing, including you and Fox news, picked up on a little comment by Obama that said the cops acted stupidly, distracting people from the other 98% of the press conference, which was about health care. Obama has said he chose his words poorly. This is nothing but a political move by Rep. to try to control the news cycle for as long as they can. Pure politics.

          Who cares what Gates thinks? He's just after publicity and you are doing nothing but giving him want he wants. I prefer to ignore attention seekers and wouldn't even know who he is if it wasn't for the right wing.

          ON the other hand, the cop in question is the same cop that gave basketball player Reggie Lewis (a black guy) mouth to mouth resuscitation in the 80's, trying to save Lewis' life. IMO, because of this the cop deserves the benefit of the doubt...But this is still only a story because the right-wingers (and Fox news) make it so.
          Kurt, get real. This very issue has been making the rounds today on MSNBC, CNN, Foxnews, Detnews (my hometown paper) and just about every other news outlet in this country. But, yea, it's Foxnews and me that are keeping it alive! LOL

          Despite your inability to remove the politics behind any issue, there is a REAL problem here, which we're discussing. In fact, Gates himself had hoped that this incident would bring more discussion to this topic, which we're doing. You're inject politics into it.

          The perception of race and the labeling of racism isn't a political issue, Kurt. Though I know you'd love to make it one. There are whites, blacks, Asians, Indians, etc on both side of the isle. The issue is about how we treat each other - everyone, regardless of color.

          Do me a favor, take your 'leftwing charity worker' hat off for once and discuss something a little deeper than right and left. (Yes, I know that was a cheap shot).
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post


            The perception of race and the labeling of racism isn't a political issue, Kurt. Though I know you'd love to make it one. There are whites, blacks, Asians, Indians, etc on both side of the isle. The issue is about how we treat each other - everyone, regardless of color.

            Do me a favor, take your 'leftwing charity worker' hat off for once and discuss something a little deeper than right and left. (Yes, I know that was a cheap shot).
            Mike,

            And do me a favor...Try READING the thread. I'm agreeing with the RIGHT on this issue.

            And since when wasn't race issues political? Do you make this up as you go along? The reason this is news is because Obama said something stupid.

            Your claim that that this isn't political was destroyed by your own comments about me taking off my "left wing charity worker hat". That's too funny. Hipocritical, but funny. You just made it political.

            One more time for those that have a hard time following:
            I SAID OBAMA WAS WRONG. I SAID GATES WAS WRONG. I SAID THE COP SHOULD BE GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. And this is the "leftist" point of view?

            Not to mention the fact I posted on the other thread I'm against "hate crime" penalties. Is that the "left wing" POV? I guess that makes you a pinko lefty too, as you agree with both of my points of view...Where do you want me to send your Jane Fonda poster?

            Now let's use a little common sense...Do you think that the rule against political conversations is intended to be interpreted simply by the "letter of the law"?

            According to you and many here, it's the "letter of the rule' that should be followed. However, I bet it's the INTENT/SPIRIT of the rule that Allen would like followed, which means topics that will DIVIDE this communty are off limits. And this topic clearly divides this community.

            BTW, my statement was about ME not having heard of the case if it weren't for Fox news, which is true. But I'm sure you're going to tell me what news programs I've watched. I haven't watched the other stations you mentioned for a while, as they all became the "Michael Jackson news channel, all MJ all the time.".

            And for your final request...I already discussed it and gave my opinions (and FACTS). However, you just want to harp and dwell on the one little bit of my post we disagree on, not the major points we agree on. I think that shows your true character and motivation for this thread. And I'v e YET to see you break party lines. I've now done it in the last two threads. I even defended Pat Buchanan.

            Now do me a favor and come back to reality.
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Mike,

              And do me a favor...Try READING the thread. I'm agreeing with the RIGHT on this issue.
              This is not a right or left issue, you goof. LOL. I can't believe you're still trying to label this Dems vs. Reps.

              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              And since when wasn't race issues political? Do you make this up as you go along? The reason this is news is because Obama said something stupid.
              Yea, Kurt, all republicans are evil racists! Man, you must be drinking tonight.

              The fact is, the only reason Obama said anything at all is becuase the man was black. if he were white, nobody would know about it.

              We all (most of us) know Obama was wrong for what he said without knowing the facts (his own words). The discussion was on what *others* thought, knowing the facts.

              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Your claim that that this isn't political was destroyed by your own comments about me taking off my "left wing charity worker hat". That's too funny. Hipocritical, but funny. You just made it political.
              I said it was a cheap shot... put on your glasses and read it again.

              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              One more time for those that have a hard time following:
              I SAID OBAMA WAS WRONG. I SAID GATES WAS WRONG. I SAID THE COP SHOULD BE GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. And this is the "leftist" point of view?
              Good Lord! Case closed, the chosen one has spoken. We no longer need to have any discussion on this. The great kurt has blessed us all with his wisdom.

              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Not to mention the fact I posted on the other thread I'm against "hate crime" penalties. Is that the "left wing" POV? I guess that makes you a pinko lefty too, as you agree with both of my points of view...Where do you want me to send your Jane Fonda poster?
              I don't care what you posted on another thread. I don't have time chasing your posts around, nor would I ever even consider doing so. Your history speaks volumes about where you stand.

              ...the other stuff is just Kurt opening and closing his mouth... no response needed.

              However, on the hypocrite of the year award... You have no idea who I am or what I believe, and you're obviously too immature to understand that... Stick to your '10 hottest babes of all time' thread. I think you're more of a visual learner... and besides I'm sure that thread has been keeping you pretty busy. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
    wikipedia info
    # Total population: 299 million
    # White alone: 74% or 221.3 million

    * Not including the 23.2 million White Hispanic and Latino Americans: 66% or 198.1 million

    # Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, of any race: 14.8% or about 44.3 million
    # Black or African American alone: 13.4% or 40.9 million
    # Some other race alone: 6.5% or 19 million
    # Asian alone: 4.4% or 13.1 million

    so ....I am a little worn out about the minority issue to tell the truth ...the black s represent less than 14% of the population and we whites get passed over for different 'contract breaks' ..give me a break ..no ONE is a natural here except for the American Indians

    I agree with the description ...a good looking white guy with a wonderful attitude and a mess of good looking white women chasing him was seen breaking into a local mansion ...then I would expect to be arrested ..he heh

    ps...what tickled me most was the black guys comment about "this is how you treat POOR black men"...while he is knocking down big bux at the (state supported university) and living in a nice big house . poor black ...sure

    and finally , I am soooooo happy that the economy is great, evryone has a good job, no health coverage problems, no cost of high gasoline, no devalued dollar, no mortgage on my childrens' futures that Obama has time and efforts to contribute to this cause...and have balls enough to invite them to the White House ? jeez ...sure I am happy everything is OK...
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Kurt,

    Frankly, I could care less about the politics of this debate. You are more than welcome to respond to anything.

    My comment was strictly and only regarding this statement:

    "And, the real reason this is even a story is because the right wing, including you and Fox news, picked up on a little comment by Obama that said the cops acted stupidly, distracting people from the other 98% of the press conference, which was about health care. Obama has said he chose his words poorly. This is nothing but a political move by Rep. to try to control the news cycle for as long as they can. Pure politics."

    Note the deliberate omission of any other news media outlet and/or the Dems in your statement. That is typical of both parties - point the finger at the other one.

    You may agree with the right in this case - all well and good. But my point was not about that or the Gates incident.

    As for politics of this thread - well, sooner or later this thread will get deleted. It's gotten too political.

    At the end of the daay though Kurt, it doesn't mean we can't all be friends.

    Good night all. Bed time for me.

    Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Trader54
    Its funny to see Obama running around all over the world apologizing to all these nut jobs then rips his own police force with out even having all the facts.

    Sounds very anti-american, and for everything america has ever stood for.

    He has to be by far the weakest president ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I am the FIRST to say cops often over react. One said he almost shot me for getting out of a car late at night! ONE almost pulled me in because a hispanic driving a different car SUPPOSEDLY has the same license plates. I could give even worse examples. Still, lately about 1/2 of the policepeople I ran into lately were fairly nice.

    But gates WAS bad, DID act like a brat, etc... And it turns out that NOBODY said they were black! There was NO profiling! Initial reports were UNKNOWN race, and one might be hispanic. Still, the police like to have a description, and one thing given/asked for is RACE!!!!!! They asked the race, and got UNKNOWN, one might be hispanic.

    I think the cop here acted CORRECTLY! How could ANYONE dispute that he did!?

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      I am the FIRST to say cops often over react. One said he almost shot me for getting out of a car late at night! ONE almost pulled me in because a hispanic driving a different car SUPPOSEDLY has the same license plates. I could give even worse examples. Still, lately about 1/2 of the policepeople I ran into lately were fairly nice.

      But gates WAS bad, DID act like a brat, etc... And it turns out that NOBODY said they were black! There was NO profiling! Initial reports were UNKNOWN race, and one might be hispanic. Still, the police like to have a description, and one thing given/asked for is RACE!!!!!! They asked the race, and got UNKNOWN, one might be hispanic.

      I think the cop here acted CORRECTLY! How could ANYONE dispute that he did!?

      Steve
      Easy, they have an agenda they have to shove down other people's throats through liberal grandstanding.

      See. Simple answer.

      ~Michael

      p.s. To be fair, the same could be said of MANY issues on ALL sides.

      p.p.s. Notice I dodn't say BOTH sides. The prevelant idea that there are only two sides is one of the most dangerous ones we have.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      I think the cop here acted CORRECTLY! How could ANYONE dispute that he did!?

      Steve
      Well, there's really only 2 people furiously disputing that in this thread. And remember, these are the same 2 people that would throw the race card at you for purchasing a white dog.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

        Well, there's really only 2 people furiously disputing that in this thread. And remember, these are the same 2 people that would throw the race card at you for purchasing a white dog.
        OK, I had ONE dog that was kind of a mut, and kind of white. Come to think of it, my CAT was kind of white also! WHOOPS! Oh well, the one dog I liked best, and thought was nice was a TRI COLOR australian shepard! YIKES! Maybe the aborigines will have something to say about that. 8-(

        As for throwing the race card, you would THINK a liberal would be less likely. If I could actually print them out, I WOULD, and go to a democrat rally. I would make a FORTUNE! I would probably make more than IBM ever did.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Wrong again! Race cards are free. Thank god. You can download them off the internet.


          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          As for throwing the race card, you would THINK a liberal would be less likely. If I could actually print them out, I WOULD, and go to a democrat rally. I would make a FORTUNE! I would probably make more than IBM ever did.

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      I can dispute that easily. He should have walked away from Gates. Cops do that all the time once they know a crime has not been commited. I've seen them let people go who have commited crimes.

      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      I think the cop here acted CORRECTLY! How could ANYONE dispute that he did!?

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        I can dispute that easily. He should have walked away from Gates. Cops do that all the time once they know a crime has not been commited. I've seen them let people go who have commited crimes.
        From the reports, he WAS walking away from gates, and gates was following him out onto the porch. If you follow a cop,giving him crap, what do you think is going to happen?
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
          Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

          From the reports, he WAS walking away from gates, and gates was following him out onto the porch. If you follow a cop,giving him crap, what do you think is going to happen?
          Exactly. The cop was there to risk his life to protect Gates house. Gates followed him outside calling him and his MOTHER racists. He should have served the night in jail.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            I don't believe he called his mother a racist. I think he said "I'll talk to your mama outside", which I think is pretty funny actually.

            Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

            Exactly. The cop was there to risk his life to protect Gates house. Gates followed him outside calling him and his MOTHER racists. He should have served the night in jail.
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              I don't believe he called his mother a racist. I think he said "I'll talk to your mama outside", which I think is pretty funny actually.
              The next time you get pulled over, try a your momma joke on the cop, see how funny he thinks it is.
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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                It's not my style of humor, but still, a cop shouldn't arrest someone because a joke falls short.

                Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

                The next time you get pulled over, try a your momma joke on the cop, see how funny he thinks it is.
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                • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  It's not my style of humor, but still, a cop shouldn't arrest someone because a joke falls short.
                  It wasn't said as a joke. You seem to be a pretty smart guy...let me ask you, when you think you are being singled out because of your race due to a racist cop...do you think that is the best time for a your momma joke?

                  Well if you dont think thats a good time, why would a havard professor think so.

                  answer: because it wasnt a joke.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    BLACK DOG LOVERS!! dirty bastiches!!

    wont someone please think of the children?
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    • Profile picture of the author embrown
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      wont someone please think of the children?
      Hrm...The Simpsons?
      Every time I hear this line I think of the Preacher's Wife.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Actually, try ANY joke and see how funny he thinks it is.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Well, once I was being arrested and I said "Take my wife. Please!" That didn't work either. Apparently the cop wasn't a Henny Youngman fan.

      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Actually, try ANY joke and see how funny he thinks it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joebaby
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author pcalvert
      Since I don't watch TV, I hadn't heard about this incident until last night, when a friend sent me this article: A post-racial president?

      Since I prefer to stay out of heated discussions, I think that's all I'm going to say.

      Phil
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Gee, it is almost a pity "TL" left! Thomas Sowell, a BLACK echoed many things I did, right down to the hipocrisy, wright, Sotomayor, and barack's statement about the police! And the ONLY connection we have is a conservative bent!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Steve, here's an article by a WHITE, who echoed my view on this issue and the only connection we have is he has a non conservative bent! Oh, and he is also white! A white guy and he agrees with me!

      Have I ever mentioned Steve, that some of my best friends are white? I have no problem with being friends with them as long as they agree with me. I am open minded afterall. I have also known whites who were smart. So, there goes those stereotypes of whites being dumb asses.

      Viewpoint: The Stupidity of the Henry Louis Gates Arrest - TIME

      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Gee, it is almost a pity "TL" left! Thomas Sowell, a BLACK echoed many things I did, right down to the hipocrisy, wright, Sotomayor, and barack's statement about the police! And the ONLY connection we have is a conservative bent!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Steve, here's an article by a WHITE, who echoed my view on this issue and the only connection we have is he has a non conservative bent! Oh, and he is also white! A white guy and he agrees with me!

        Have I ever mentioned Steve, that some of my best friends are white? I have no problem with being friends with them as long as they agree with me. I am open minded afterall. I have also known whites who were smart. So, there goes those stereotypes of whites being dumb asses.

        Viewpoint: The Stupidity of the Henry Louis Gates Arrest - TIME
        Tim, I hate to say this...
        but when you get up in the morning...
        and make that trip to the bathroom...
        take 3 deep breaths before going inside and looking into the mirror...
        because...
        (cupping hands by mouth) YOU'RE A WHITE MAN!

        Call the ambulance! LOL
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          I know I am white Michael. But that doesn't keep me from understanding and identifying with whites. Like I said, some of my best friends are white and some of these are even smart. Steve was saying before that he knew some smart blacks. I'm just showing that I also know some smart whites who are actual friends. It's a good thing. Lets be positive here.

          Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

          Tim, I hate to say this...
          but when you get up in the morning...
          and make that trip to the bathroom...
          take 3 deep breaths before going inside and looking into the mirror...
          because...
          (cupping hands by mouth) YOU'RE A WHITE MAN!

          Call the ambulance! LOL
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            I know I am white Michael. But that doesn't keep me from understanding and identifying with whites. Like I said, some of my best friends are white and some of these are even smart. Steve was saying before that he knew some smart blacks. I'm just showing that I also know some smart whites who are actual friends. It's a good thing. Lets be positive here.
            So, you know some smart whites and Steve knows some smart blacks. Man, what a shallow way to look at things...
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              You are starting to get it. :-)

              Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

              So, you know some smart whites and Steve knows some smart blacks. Man, what a shallow way to look at things...
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                You are starting to get it. :-)
                Ah, I see. I have to sift through all of your real anti-white comments to get to your sarcastic anti-white comments... I am starting to get it. :rolleyes:
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Shouldn't be that hard Michael, since I never had a real anti-white comment.

                  I must say though, just by judging from this thread, if I ever want to make an anti-white comment, I will make sure to have a link from a white person agreeing with me. Very effective. If the video title says "uppity whites: against real Americans" it will be even better! Don't you agree Michael? Real effective title I must say.


                  Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

                  Ah, I see. I have to sift through all of your real anti-white comments to get to your sarcastic anti-white comments... I am starting to get it. :rolleyes:
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    Shouldn't be that hard Michael, since I never had a real anti-white comment.

                    I must say though, just by judging from this thread, if I ever want to make an anti-white comment, I will make sure to have a link from a white person agreeing with me. Very effective. If the video title says "uppity whites: against real Americans" it will be even better! Don't you agree Michael? Real effective title I must say.
                    OK, this is getting confusing. Are you saying that blacks ARE, or AREN'T real Americans?

                    BTW saying white and non conservative(ESPECIALLY when you happen to be white) is NOT the same as saying black and conservative. It seems that all liberals are likely to side with a minority screaming RACISM, etc.... But a BLACK (conservative or not) that points out that another black is being hypocritical, and that the white cop was just following SOP is QUITE another! It seems that some blacks just DON'T want to be treated the same. If a white cop does it, RACISM!!!!!! If a black cop does it he or she is an UNCLE TOM! Gee, whites don't have the same luxury!

                    HEY, I ADMIT that most presidents ran an administration that HURT this country, and some even helped push it that way. FURTHER, I will admit that, until present, they were ALL white males. Somehow, I always hoped that when a black or female won that they would be good enough that I could at least be happy with it, and MAYBE even enjoy progress. I guess you guys feel that is asking too much. So WHY are you pushing so hard to try to get it? BRAGGING RIGHTS? I mean WHITES give you welfare, etc... ALSO!

                    BTW the first Black presidential nominee of a major party was probably REPUBLICAN! As I recall, I DID vote for him(Alan Keyes)! At least at the beginning, he seemed like a good candidate. GEE, I don't remember the blacks coming out from the woodwork to vote for HIM!

                    And it is interesting that you picked out only the statement about blacks, and maybe the only one that, on its own, would sound so funny and stereotypical! Interesting, since I was trying to shot down the idea of stereotypes. WOW!

                    And HEY, I never had a real anti-black comment! Not ANYWHERE!

                    Steve
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                    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                      OK, this is getting confusing. Are you saying that blacks ARE, or AREN'T real Americans?
                      Confusing it is... At one point I at least used to be able to follow what he was saying... not sure what happened. I think he's trying to inject humor and sarcasim into his posts, but they're so damn close to his "normal" posts that you wouldn't know the difference.
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                      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                        I'm inspired by Paul ( MYOB ).
                        Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

                        Confusing it is... At one point I at least used to be able to follow what he was saying... not sure what happened. I think he's trying to inject humor and sarcasim into his posts, but they're so damn close to his "normal" posts that you wouldn't know the difference.
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                      I said whites and was being facetious.
                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                      OK, this is getting confusing. Are you saying that blacks ARE, or AREN'T real Americans?
                      It seems that some blacks just DON'T want to be treated the same.
                      Huh?

                      So WHY are you pushing so hard to try to get it? BRAGGING RIGHTS? I mean WHITES give you welfare, etc... ALSO!
                      I don't know what you are talking about.

                      BTW the first Black presidential nominee of a major party was probably REPUBLICAN! As I recall, I DID vote for him(Alan Keyes)! At least at the beginning, he seemed like a good candidate. GEE, I don't remember the blacks coming out from the woodwork to vote for HIM!
                      Keyes was not a nominee of a major party. He was just a candidate and not a very good one, thus the loses for the Senate in 88, 92 and 2004 and for President in 92, 96, 2000 and 2008.
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                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                        I said whites and was being facetious.


                        Huh?


                        I don't know what you are talking about.


                        Keyes was not a nominee of a major party. He was just a candidate and not a very good one, thus the loses for the Senate in 88, 92 and 2004 and for President in 92, 96, 2000 and 2008.
                        I meant to ask if you were saying COPS aren't/are real Americans. You changed uppity blacks/blue collar cop, to uppity whites/real americans.

                        If you quoted my comment about them calling whites racist and black uncle toms, at least OTHERS would understand the reference.

                        OK, I meant nominee, sorry. Yeah, I guess you would have to say hillary wasn't a good one either.

                        Steve
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                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                          The op title doesn't say cops, it says whites.

                          Hillary almost won and she only ran once, so I think she would be considered a good candidate.

                          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                          I meant to ask if you were saying COPS aren't/are real Americans. You changed uppity blacks/blue collar cop, to uppity whites/real americans.

                          If you quoted my comment about them calling whites racist and black uncle toms, at least OTHERS would understand the reference.

                          OK, I meant nominee, sorry. Yeah, I guess you would have to say hillary wasn't a good one either.

                          Steve
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                          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                            The op title doesn't say cops, it says whites.

                            Hillary almost won and she only ran once, so I think she would be considered a good candidate.
                            There was no title on the post that originally had that video, but the video was called

                            Uppity Blacks vs Blue Collar Whites

                            OK, so I misread it. OK, so I guess the original question stands then.

                            But you and I BOTH know that if the blue collar guy was not a law enforcement officer, I, and most OTHERS, would have considered Gates' behaviour to be WARRANTED!

                            HEY, if a black, or white, happened into MY place like that, and wasn't in law enforcement, he might be lucky to get out with his life. If that person were in law enforcement, I would have tried to figure out what was wrong. I would have complied.

                            I just heard a WHITE talk about how HE was treated HARSHER by an officer after the guy accidently hit his wife's panic button. He got ALL the "harassment" GATES did, was pulled aside, and his wife and kids were questioned. THEN he was let free.

                            HE realized the officer was merely doing his job.

                            So a winner is a "good candidate"? OK, I GET IT! A person winning a foot race in a car is the fastest one in the race and deserves to win, and all cheaters on tests are geniuses! OK!

                            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author stonerpreneur
    I think it's safe to say that no SANE person would think the professor was in the right, or that the officers acted out of line. The end.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

    I am so glad that we are banned from discussing politics.

    Otherwise, well, who knows what would happen. Maybe people would grow hair on their palms.

    This stupid, idiotic issue does not deserve the attention it is getting. The cop did his job. The perp, homeowner or not WAS AND IS OUT OF LINE. IT'S NOT a "black and white issue' (except to those exploiting it as such)

    It is only one step away on the PANDERING machine to which politician cheated on his wife.

    SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW, (ALREADY)?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

      I am so glad that we are banned from discussing politics.

      Otherwise, well, who knows what would happen. Maybe people would grow hair on their palms.

      This stupid, idiotic issue does not deserve the attention it is getting. The cop did his job. The perp, homeowner or not WAS AND IS OUT OF LINE. IT'S NOT a "black and white issue' (except to those exploiting it as such)

      It is only one step away on the PANDERING machine to which politician cheated on his wife.

      SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW, (ALREADY)?
      MY POINT EXACTLY! And I bet more politicians, of either party, cheated than didn't cheat. Frankly, I wouldn't cheat. But even those that didn't might be suspected of cheating. Oh well.....

      OK, what is the weather like where YOU are? This afternoon, and even morning, in Boston it was SO hot and humid that my eyeglasses fogged up! That tends to remind me of the metro in Wash DC since one station was called "foggy bottom"! Sounds like I am making it up, but I'm not!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foggy_B...ashington,_D.C.

      Hey, my palms are one place I DON'T have hair growing, and don't want any. 8-)

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Hi Steve. It is nice and cool and breezy here, thank heaven. It actually seemed like it would rain all morning - perfect gray sky, gray water. Beautiful. Now the gray is gone and it is a pale blue sky with evidence that there is still a sun. Still nice and breezy.

    I heard Oregon and Washington just above me had "all time record" heat - above 100 degrees F - I think it was yesterday. Thank heaven it passed Northern California by.

    Other happenings of note here, I had a great day at the endodonist Tuesday - root canal and 2 hours of nitrous oxide. Stellar. I think I am the only one in the world that has a great time at the dentist. As soon as my mouth would move I had a chocolate covered biscotti. The only real pain is that I just spent $3500 to save 1 'dead' tooth. How sick is that?

    No hairy palms here, either.

    Take care!

    PaX
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Hi Steve. It is nice and cool and breezy here, thank heaven. It actually seemed like it would rain all morning - perfect gray sky, gray water. Beautiful. Now the gray is gone and it is a pale blue sky with evidence that there is still a sun. Still nice and breezy.

      I heard Oregon and Washington just above me had "all time record" heat - above 100 degrees F - I think it was yesterday. Thank heaven it passed Northern California by.

      Other happenings of note here, I had a great day at the endodonist Tuesday - root canal and 2 hours of nitrous oxide. Stellar. I think I am the only one in the world that has a great time at the dentist. As soon as my mouth would move I had a chocolate covered biscotti. The only real pain is that I just spent $3500 to save 1 'dead' tooth. How sick is that?

      No hairy palms here, either.

      Take care!

      PaX
      Well HEY, I, and my insurance, spent over $200,000 to put something in me that looks like JUNK! If I could somehow meld machine with biological, and I could operate on MYSELF, I could just replace the whole blasted heart, etc... with something better! Teeth are the same way! 8-( It would be nice if you could fashion an entire jaw, teeth and all, out of titanium, replace it, and NEVER have to worry about your jaw ever again. GO FIGURE. TODAY, like with my heart, they have a COMPROMISE! "dental implants". They use a titanium fiting that they insert into the jaw, and have a fake tooth that screws into it. THAT would probably have cost AT LEAST that $3500! Of course, that is a compromise. Bacteria can still degrade the jaw around the implant and affect other teeth. 8-(

      Oh well, I'm glad you had such a nice time, and great weather.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Actually they claim that having the implants will impede the degradation of the jaw.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Actually they claim that having the implants will impede the degradation of the jaw.
      They may SLOW IT DOWN a bit, but it can still happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Well there is always the alternative...
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Implants are way more expensive than root canals. The $3500 was for a crown $1500, $500 for post and core, and for the root canal itself $1500. Cash (credit) NO insurance for 5 years.

    There was no infection, it way a dying tooth (now dead, RIP) and it was giving off sparks when I chewed. (hella celebration of his life)

    When it comes to the choice of implant or false teeth I will spend my last dime for implants.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    All things willing ours is the last generation that will even need dentures. Dental care has had major strides in the last decade or so.
    While we all are discussing national health care , dental is usually forgotten in those discussions.
    Those are costs that should be reasonable too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Absolutely, Kim - many don't realize how fast an infected tooth can kill you. Real close to the brain, wot!

    It's no laughing matter to ignore dental health - they are even linking diseased gums, etc to strokes, heart attacks, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I read recently where dementia is diagnosed more frequently in people with 8 teeth or less.
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I read recently where dementia is diagnosed more frequently in people with 8 teeth or less.

      No worries I have at least 9.

      just kidding I have all, but minus 4...




      (cute cop!) but looks like he might not be enjoying the railroad.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28


    This is just getting plain silly. I wonder how much of U.S. taxpayers' money have been wasted as a result of this spat. It looks like that it had turned out to be the most important summit Obama has done so far. Why does he have to bring Biden along, why can't he handle it along. If anything Obama is more dependent on his VP than Bush on Cheney.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Why does he have to bring Biden along
      Look at the photo - think about it - balanced photo op, politically correct, carefully planned. Wonder if the cop was ordered to show up - most likely.
      Hope he was getting paid for the time.

      The whole thing was ridiculous from start to finish - on both sides.

      kay
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      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Usually Obama has to help on a gaff made by Biden. This time it was the other way around. It was a gaff by Obama, I admit that.

        Cheney was a huge influence on Bush the first 6 years. The last couple not so much after Bush seen what listening to him did.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          It was a gaff by Obama, I admit that.
          Tim, I think you and I need to have a beer summit.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            OK. Sounds good to me. As the great phylosopher Homer ( Simpson, not the old Greek dude )said "Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose; it's how drunk you get."

            Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

            Tim, I think you and I need to have a beer summit.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post



      This is just getting plain silly. I wonder how much of U.S. taxpayers' money have been wasted as a result of this spat. It looks like that it had turned out to be the most important summit Obama has done so far. Why does he have to bring Biden along, why can't he handle it along. If anything Obama is more dependent on his VP than Bush on Cheney.
      One person seemed to think I was wrong when I said that if crowley were black, he would be called an uncle tom. Well, I was proven RIGHT, again! What I didn't know was a black police officer "leon K lashley" WAS there! He DID support crowley! Guess what! YEP! He is being called an uncle tom! The accusation hit him HARD!

      HELL, why wasn't leon K lashley invited to the "summit". THAT idiot "OBAMA" got the media to CLAIM that he is DOWNPLAYING this! That is BULL! If he wanted to downplay it, he wouldn't have talked about it, and nobody would know how he felt!!!!! Perhaps THOUSANDS, maybe HUNDREDS of thousands, maybe MILLIONS have things like this EVERY DAY! Nobody talks about THEM.

      Anyway, I think it is APPALING! Crowley was FORCED to sit with those jerks! And WHY!?!?!? I mean he could NOT refuse, because everyone would consider him guilty, the others would possibly speak against him, etc....

      And Obama said these were just three people shooting the breeze after work. WRONG!!!!!! The white house is in ANOTHER STATE! Maybe Obama should have spent ONLY HIS MONEY and gone to Boston and PUBLICALLY APOLOGIZED!

      Obama is in a situation that is really problematic. He WON the presidency, his constituents claim that racism is the only reason he didn't win by more, and NOW he makes a STUPID RACIST COMMENT and invites a white stranger with a fellow black friend. Frankly, if I were in his position I wouldn't have even ATTEMPTED that garbage. If I made the stupid racist comment, I probably would have said.....

      "Yesterday I made a stupid comment about Mr. Crowley acting 'stupidly'. Since I have seen racism in the past, and a black friend of mine was involved, I overreacted without hearing all the facts. I hope everyone will accept my apology, and gratitude that the police were trying to protect Mr. Gates home. They acted according to Standard Operating Procedure, treated Mr. Gates exactly like they would treat anyone else, and it was unfortunate that Mr. Gates was so Irate and acted inappropriately."

      If Crowley asked to meet with me, I would do it PRIVATELY. If he wanted it public, I would apologize. And Gates should NOT have been there in ANY case!

      HEY, why didn't Obama invite ALL US citizens there!?!?!? I mean WE were subjected to this ALSO!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        What was the stupid racist comment Steve? There wasn't one. You've been listening to right wing idiots like Glenn Beck and Rush too long. Those are the real racists. Obama didn't make a racist comment. A gaff, yes.

        Plus, you would not appologize, since I have never seen you appologize for any of your comments before.

        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        One person seemed to think I was wrong when I said that if crowley were black, he would be called an uncle tom. Well, I was proven RIGHT, again! What I didn't know was a black police officer "leon K lashley" WAS there! He DID support crowley! Guess what! YEP! He is being called an uncle tom! The accusation hit him HARD!

        HELL, why wasn't leon K lashley invited to the "summit". THAT idiot "OBAMA" got the media to CLAIM that he is DOWNPLAYING this! That is BULL! If he wanted to downplay it, he wouldn't have talked about it, and nobody would know how he felt!!!!! Perhaps THOUSANDS, maybe HUNDREDS of thousands, maybe MILLIONS have things like this EVERY DAY! Nobody talks about THEM.

        Anyway, I think it is APPALING! Crowley was FORCED to sit with those jerks! And WHY!?!?!? I mean he could NOT refuse, because everyone would consider him guilty, the others would possibly speak against him, etc....

        And Obama said these were just three people shooting the breeze after work. WRONG!!!!!! The white house is in ANOTHER STATE! Maybe Obama should have spent ONLY HIS MONEY and gone to Boston and PUBLICALLY APOLOGIZED!

        Obama is in a situation that is really problematic. He WON the presidency, his constituents claim that racism is the only reason he didn't win by more, and NOW he makes a STUPID RACIST COMMENT and invites a white stranger with a fellow black friend. Frankly, if I were in his position I wouldn't have even ATTEMPTED that garbage. If I made the stupid racist comment, I probably would have said.....

        "Yesterday I made a stupid comment about Mr. Crowley acting 'stupidly'. Since I have seen racism in the past, and a black friend of mine was involved, I overreacted without hearing all the facts. I hope everyone will accept my apology, and gratitude that the police were trying to protect Mr. Gates home. They acted according to Standard Operating Procedure, treated Mr. Gates exactly like they would treat anyone else, and it was unfortunate that Mr. Gates was so Irate and acted inappropriately."

        If Crowley asked to meet with me, I would do it PRIVATELY. If he wanted it public, I would apologize. And Gates should NOT have been there in ANY case!

        HEY, why didn't Obama invite ALL US citizens there!?!?!? I mean WE were subjected to this ALSO!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author blalock61
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          You've been listening to right wing idiots like Glenn Beck and Rush too long. Those are the real racists. Obama didn't make a racist comment. A gaff, yes.
          Hey, the race card. Care to explain how they are racist?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          What was the stupid racist comment Steve? There wasn't one. You've been listening to right wing idiots like Glenn Beck and Rush too long. Those are the real racists. Obama didn't make a racist comment. A gaff, yes.

          Plus, you would not appologize, since I have never seen you appologize for any of your comments before.

          NOPE, I listened to one OBAMA statement too many. He said the police acted "stupidly", and went on to declare that it was about RACE! HOW can you claim he made a "gaff"? If I went on natiional TV and said that hitler had some points about some jews being dishonest, etc.... and that Krystal nacht was justified and the jewish people acted stupidly in their claims, etc.... would THAT be a mere gaff? If I happened to be president at the time, NEARLY EVERYONE, INCLUDING MOST WHITES, would be looking for me to be IMPEACHED, and call it RACISM!

          Heck, it isn't very different from what Obama did. Obama shouldn't have even stated an opinion! He should NOT have reacted so quickly. He was accused of such STUPID quick acts EVEN BEFORE his presidency! It has hurt his relations with foreign dignitaries! He should look at it in a NON racist way! He looked at it like HE was PERSONALLY enslaved, etc...

          Presidents should NEVER make such decisions so quickly. Such things as this do NOT warrant a national audience. Gates EVEN called the chief police, who happened to be black. The chief said crowley acted CORRECTLY, and teaches a class AGAINST racism! Even Colin Powel supported crowley! It was NOT a racist act, and comments to the contrary are RACIST! PERIOD!

          HECK, Obama can't even claim anyone in HIS family was enslaved! His father was STRAIGHT from kenya, and his mother was white. They were both in a nice college in a state where the natives seem to be treated well and THEY traditionally have darker skin. Obama enjoyed a LOT of "entitlements". Who is HE to even look at it in such a SUBJECTIVE manner.

          I SWEAR, to look at some blacks, such as "our president", you would think they consider US(whites) to be mindless brats that see our GOAL in life as their enslavement! Frankly, I am just sick of their MINDLESS CLAIMS OF RACISM! A black saying that an SOP process done by ALL COPS to protect the WHOLE PUBLIC is RACIST, SIMPLY because the CURRENT "victim" HAPPENS to be black, IS RACIST!!!!!! Of course, if the cop were BLACK, he would be called an "UNCLE TOM", as Sgt. Leon Lashley WAS! Although that doesn't SEEM racist, it IS, because it is saying that the BLACK Lashley is a TRAITER to his race because he is siding with a SUPPOSEDLY racist action by the WHITE crowley!

          BTW I HAVE apologized before. I certainly wouldn't HERE, because I am RIGHT! HEY, I have been stopped on the street EARLY in the morning by a cop for NO reason! He EVEN said he almost SHOT me! If the officer happened to be black I STILL wouldn't scream racism. Some blacks, stopped as I was, certainly WOULD!

          As for "offering up his ID", that is WRONG!!!!!!!!!! Gates NEVER "offered up his ID"! He apparently presented it MUCH later! The officer asked him to step outside, and Gates said "NO!"! He spoke with gates, and found that they person claimed to be gates, and the owner of the home. STILL no ID! The Officer carefully stepped into the house to pursue things, and gates started acting even MORE "belligerent". SO, to claim that Gates offered ANYTHING proper is misleading at best!

          If that happened to me and I did that, they would take ME to jail! Hey, the police are allowed to do it, and they tend to act a bit harsher than most would hope. I NEVER claimed the average police officer was nice. I once ran out of gas on a freeway, parked to the side of the road, a police officer stopped, and my heart raced JUST as much as a black in the middle of beverly hills in the 30s probably would have raced, and the officer was WHITE! LUCKILY, he was nice. But I had NO idea what he would do. For every nice policeman I met, I probably met at LEAST 1 bad one.

          I was recently stopped and queried at length because apparently a hispanic had a car very different from mine with the SAME tag number, and he was WANTED! LUCKILY, I don't look hispanic, and my car was different. AGAIN, I didn't know what to think. I definitely feel I was close to being arrested.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            You are wrong so often it's amazing Steve. The first error is in the second sentence when you say Obama "went on to say it was about race." Wrong. He never said that. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? You are trying to read the health plan and explain it to people, when you can't even read or hear one sentence and get it right! Here's what Obama said and this wasn't the gaff:

            And No. 3 - what I think we know separate and apart from this incident - is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact

            The phrase "separate and apart from this incident" negates your claim that Obama "went on to say it was about race."

            So, there goes your whole damn arguement about Obama being racist. You apparently can't understand the language.

            BTW, Obama's "gaff" IMO was in using the word "stupidly". He never said it was about race, so that wasn't the imagined mistake you see.

            Also, your claim that Obama is known to make stupid quick comments, even before his Presidency, is ridiculous. His campaign and Presidency is known for NOT making these gaffs. I have no idea what you are referring to, but I'm thinking you misread something again. Maybe you need glasses? :-0

            Here's another example of your not being able to get things right. You said: "Gates NEVER "offered up his ID"! He apparently presented it MUCH later! Well, in two sentences you completely contradict yourself. You use the word "never", then say "later" in the next sentence!! You say it is "much later" but what does that mean? This incident didn't last that long. Only a few minutes. So Gates actually did present his indentification and only within a few minutes. So NEVER is wrong and MUCH is wrong also. Funny, these are both words you accentuate ( aka = yell ).

            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            NOPE, I listened to one OBAMA statement too many. He said the police acted "stupidly", and went on to declare that it was about RACE! HOW can you claim he made a "gaff"? If I went on natiional TV and said that hitler had some points about some jews being dishonest, etc.... and that Krystal nacht was justified and the jewish people acted stupidly in their claims, etc.... would THAT be a mere gaff? If I happened to be president at the time, NEARLY EVERYONE, INCLUDING MOST WHITES, would be looking for me to be IMPEACHED, and call it RACISM!

            Heck, it isn't very different from what Obama did. Obama shouldn't have even stated an opinion! He should NOT have reacted so quickly. He was accused of such STUPID quick acts EVEN BEFORE his presidency! It has hurt his relations with foreign dignitaries! He should look at it in a NON racist way! He looked at it like HE was PERSONALLY enslaved, etc...

            Presidents should NEVER make such decisions so quickly. Such things as this do NOT warrant a national audience. Gates EVEN called the chief police, who happened to be black. The chief said crowley acted CORRECTLY, and teaches a class AGAINST racism! Even Colin Powel supported crowley! It was NOT a racist act, and comments to the contrary are RACIST! PERIOD!

            HECK, Obama can't even claim anyone in HIS family was enslaved! His father was STRAIGHT from kenya, and his mother was white. They were both in a nice college in a state where the natives seem to be treated well and THEY traditionally have darker skin. Obama enjoyed a LOT of "entitlements". Who is HE to even look at it in such a SUBJECTIVE manner.

            I SWEAR, to look at some blacks, such as "our president", you would think they consider US(whites) to be mindless brats that see our GOAL in life as their enslavement! Frankly, I am just sick of their MINDLESS CLAIMS OF RACISM! A black saying that an SOP process done by ALL COPS to protect the WHOLE PUBLIC is RACIST, SIMPLY because the CURRENT "victim" HAPPENS to be black, IS RACIST!!!!!! Of course, if the cop were BLACK, he would be called an "UNCLE TOM", as Sgt. Leon Lashley WAS! Although that doesn't SEEM racist, it IS, because it is saying that the BLACK Lashley is a TRAITER to his race because he is siding with a SUPPOSEDLY racist action by the WHITE crowley!

            BTW I HAVE apologized before. I certainly wouldn't HERE, because I am RIGHT! HEY, I have been stopped on the street EARLY in the morning by a cop for NO reason! He EVEN said he almost SHOT me! If the officer happened to be black I STILL wouldn't scream racism. Some blacks, stopped as I was, certainly WOULD!

            As for "offering up his ID", that is WRONG!!!!!!!!!! Gates NEVER "offered up his ID"! He apparently presented it MUCH later! The officer asked him to step outside, and Gates said "NO!"! He spoke with gates, and found that they person claimed to be gates, and the owner of the home. STILL no ID! The Officer carefully stepped into the house to pursue things, and gates started acting even MORE "belligerent". SO, to claim that Gates offered ANYTHING proper is misleading at best!

            If that happened to me and I did that, they would take ME to jail! Hey, the police are allowed to do it, and they tend to act a bit harsher than most would hope. I NEVER claimed the average police officer was nice. I once ran out of gas on a freeway, parked to the side of the road, a police officer stopped, and my heart raced JUST as much as a black in the middle of beverly hills in the 30s probably would have raced, and the officer was WHITE! LUCKILY, he was nice. But I had NO idea what he would do. For every nice policeman I met, I probably met at LEAST 1 bad one.

            I was recently stopped and queried at length because apparently a hispanic had a car very different from mine with the SAME tag number, and he was WANTED! LUCKILY, I don't look hispanic, and my car was different. AGAIN, I didn't know what to think. I definitely feel I was close to being arrested.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              You are wrong so often it's amazing Steve. The first error is in the second sentence when you say Obama "went on to say it was about race." Wrong. He never said that. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? You are trying to read the health plan and explain it to people, when you can't even read or hear one sentence and get it right! Here's what Obama said and this wasn't the Gaff:

              And No. 3 - what I think we know separate and apart from this incident - is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact

              The phrase "separate and apart from this incident" negates your claim that Obama "went on to say it was about race."

              So, there goes your whole damn arguement about Obama being racist. You apparently can't understand the language.

              BTW, Obama's "gaff" IMO was in using the word "stupidly". He never said it was about race, so that wasn't the imagined mistake you see.

              Also, your claim that Obama is known to make stupid quick comments, even before his Presidency, is ridiculous. His campaign and Presidency is known for NOT making these gaffs. I have no idea what you are referring to, but I'm thinking you misread something again. Maybe you need glasses? :-0
              You should talk.(sarc)

              WHY did he mention that statement? OBVIOUSLY, "what I think we know separate and apart from this incident" means that there is OTHER stuff out there "Seperate and apart from this" that makes it clear that.... So he DID say that. What are you? A TROLL? An Obama worshipper? What? Because you certainly don't seem to want to say the truth here. Actually, in the debates, his quick uninformed remarks were mentioned THEN and on the news. Sorry, but I am certainly NOT the first to notice or mention them! Oh well, he picked a good VP. He is ALSO known for the same stuff, and sometimes contradicts Obama. Some think he is making stupid mistakes. Maybe they are simply keeping 2 books, and he is taking his publiic play from the wrong one.

              Thanks, I DO need glasses. That is why I am wearing them now. My vision tests as 20/20. Thanks for caring.

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                I'm just debating you Steve.

                That statement by Obama does not OBVIOUSLY mean that there is other "stuff" out there. That's your interpretation, but it is only speculation. Are you a mind reader?

                BTW, Obama did very well in his debates.
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                You should talk.(sarc)

                WHY did he mention that statement? OBVIOUSLY, "what I think we know separate and apart from this incident" means that there is OTHER stuff out there "Seperate and apart from this" that makes it clear that.... So he DID say that. What are you? A TROLL? An Obama worshipper? What? Because you certainly don't seem to want to say the truth here. Actually, in the debates, his quick uninformed remarks were mentioned THEN and on the news. Sorry, but I am certainly NOT the first to notice or mention them! Oh well, he picked a good VP. He is ALSO known for the same stuff, and sometimes contradicts Obama. Some think he is making stupid mistakes. Maybe they are simply keeping 2 books, and he is taking his publiic play from the wrong one.

                Thanks, I DO need glasses. That is why I am wearing them now. My vision tests as 20/20. Thanks for caring.

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  I'm just debating you Steve.

                  That statement by Obama does not OBVIOUSLY mean that there is other "stuff" out there. That's your interpretation, but it is only speculation. Are you a mind reader?

                  BTW, Obama did very well in his debates.
                  Well, he IS a lawyer, and many have noted how he tries to couch his words by using odd word chhoices, etc... So it is pretty clear to me. Some have successfully claimed to be mind readers with far less.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              Here's another example of your not being able to get things right. You said: "Gates NEVER "offered up his ID"! He apparently presented it MUCH later! Well, in two sentences you completely contradict yourself. You use the word "never", then say "later" in the next sentence!! You say it is "much later" but what does that mean? This incident didn't last that long. Only a few minutes. So Gates actually did present his indentification and only within a few minutes. So NEVER is wrong and MUCH is wrong also. Funny, these are both words you accentuate ( aka = yell ).

              OK, you added this after I made my last sttaement.

              I never contradicted myself, and explained that later. Maybe YOU need glasses! To say OFFERED implies that he started out doing that or at least willingly, He DIDN'T! I wouldn't say that a person that was car jacked offered up his car. It wasn't a "few" minutes EITHER! And YOU contradicted YOURSELF! You mention that you KNOW I am accentuating, and then imply that I am yelling.

              Gee maybe you should listen to the 911 call and the call with the dispatcher, etc....

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                No, "offered" does not necessarily imply starting out or even "willingly". One definition of OFFERED is "1. To present for acceptance or rejection." from thefreeonlinedictionary.com. So, it is correct to say he offered his license and it is wrong to say he NEVER did offer it and then say he "presented" it much later ( only a few minutes actually ). The car jacking analogy doesn't make sense. Now, if Gates just sat there and Crowley went inside, looked through all his belongings and then found his ID, that analogy might work.

                Again, you have a way of turning what you are thinking into facts when they are only thoughts going around that brain of yours. Just as you did in claiming that Obama said the cop was racial profiling Gates, which he NEVER said. That was only a thought in YOUR mind.

                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                To say OFFERED implies that he started out doing that or at least willingly, He DIDN'T! I wouldn't say that a person that was car jacked offered up his car. It wasn't a "few" minutes EITHER! And YOU contradicted YOURSELF! You mention that you KNOW I am accentuating, and then imply that I am yelling.

                Gee maybe you should listen to the 911 call and the call with the dispatcher, etc....

                Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    I wonder if the cop belched. I would have if i were the cop. Make me come all the way to washington to have a beer with this guy because he got his nose out of joint because I was doing my job. Probably not even good beer.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarisueWrites
    Facts Matter. He was arrested AFTER his identity had been established. Being rude is not against the law, and he was agitated. My husband was a cop for 30 years and let me tell you, he would not have lived that long had he given in to his own ego and anger, which is what this cop did.

    When you're in the house of a resident, you are the intruder and should exercise great caution and diplomacy when there is no apparent threat. I do agree that taking the Professor to the porch to continue the discussion might be safer for the police, but once he had given ID, they needed to be exercising their diffusing anger skills and back out, thank him, move on.

    They both got mad, the cop is paid not to get mad. I hope we all learn that cops are people too, and make mistakes. The officer should say, "I could have handled this in a manner that might have helped the Professor calm down and not feel so invaded while we did our job."

    However, I do think the nation needs to move on, and let these two people have their lives and get over this. They can grow from it, the nation seems to be beating it to death. Or the media.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by MarisueWrites View Post

      Facts Matter. He was arrested AFTER his identity had been established. Being rude is not against the law, and he was agitated. My husband was a cop for 30 years and let me tell you, he would not have lived that long had he given in to his own ego and anger, which is what this cop did.
      Police do not have to put up with verbal abuse. The officer was leaving and gates followed him OUT the door while verbally abusing the officer. I dont care what your color is or what the circustances are, if you follow a cop and verbally abuse him you're likely to get put in jail.

      When you're in the house of a resident, you are the intruder and should exercise great caution and diplomacy when there is no apparent threat. I do agree that taking the Professor to the porch to continue the discussion might be safer for the police, but once he had given ID, they needed to be exercising their diffusing anger skills and back out, thank him, move on.
      He was in the house of this man because he was called for a possible break in, thats what cops are paid to do.

      They both got mad, the cop is paid not to get mad. I hope we all learn that cops are people too, and make mistakes. The officer should say, "I could have handled this in a manner that might have helped the Professor calm down and not feel so invaded while we did our job."

      However, I do think the nation needs to move on, and let these two people have their lives and get over this. They can grow from it, the nation seems to be beating it to death. Or the media.
      The cop is paid to do a job, he is not paid to take the mouth of a verbally abusive racist. The only reason gates isn't on your television right now screaming about how the man is holding him down is because that officer had his mic opened and the entire exchange was caught on recording. You'll notice that you dont see jesse jackson or al sharpton or the naacp screaming for that cops head right now, but they were warming up in the bullpen before the recordings were released.

      The cop did his job. The professor tried to play the race card and it backfired on him.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        Police do not have to put up with verbal abuse. The officer was leaving and gates followed him OUT the door while verbally abusing the officer. I dont care what your color is or what the circustances are, if you follow a cop and verbally abuse him you're likely to get put in jail.


        He was in the house of this man because he was called for a possible break in, thats what cops are paid to do.



        The cop is paid to do a job, he is not paid to take the mouth of a verbally abusive racist. The only reason gates isn't on your television right now screaming about how the man is holding him down is because that officer had his mic opened and the entire exchange was caught on recording. You'll notice that you dont see jesse jackson or al sharpton or the naacp screaming for that cops head right now, but they were warming up in the bullpen before the recordings were released.

        The cop did his job. The professor tried to play the race card and it backfired on him.
        Michael, I don't know why you keep wasting your breath here. Some will just never get it.

        I find it awfully convenient that everyone simply states that the cop was over zealous, wrong, acted stupidly, etc. and overlooking the simple fact that if Gates had simply offered up his ID when asked, the whole thing would most likely have ended with:

        "Thank you Mr. Gates. Have a pleasant evening"

        Cops CAN be @$$holes, to be sure. But from EVERY account - including Gates' - he opened HIS big mouth.

        I can tell you if I lock myself out of my house, then try to break back in, and one of my neighbors saw this (not knowing it was me) I would HOPE they would call the police.

        Then I would HOPE the police would ask for my ID to make sure I belong there.

        Then of course, I would HOPE the cop would say "have a nice evening". I can tell you I wouldn't say "I'll show your momma my ID..."

        Gates started it. The cop ended it. Charges were dropped. Now, the subject should be dropped (IMHO).
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
          Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

          Michael, I don't know why you keep wasting your breath here. Some will just never get it.

          I find it awfully convenient that everyone simply states that the cop was over zealous, wrong, acted stupidly, etc. and overlooking the simple fact that if Gates had simply offered up his ID when asked, the whole thing would most likely have ended with:

          "Thank you Mr. Gates. Have a pleasant evening"

          Cops CAN be @$, to be sure. But from EVERY account - including Gates' - he opened HIS big mouth.

          I can tell you if I lock myself out of my house, then try to break back in, and one of my neighbors saw this (not knowing it was me) I would HOPE they would call the police.

          Then I would HOPE the police would ask for my ID to make sure I belong there.

          Then of course, I would HOPE the cop would say "have a nice evening". I can tell you I wouldn't say "I'll show your momma my ID..."

          Gates started it. The cop ended it. Charges were dropped. Now, the subject should be dropped (IMHO).
          Well said, Mike.

          I just wish the cop would stop having follow up lunches/dinners/beers with Gates. I mean, the cop simply did his job and Gates acted like an a$$, now they have to continuously get together to "discuss it". BS.

          Everyone knows Gates was the a$$ in this situation. The cop shouldn't be spending anymore time with him. Perhaps Gates should go cry to his "mama" about it.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Hi Mike,

          Weird thing is, he did offer up his id. He still got arrested. In his own home!

          This thing could also have been avoided if the cop just made a wise, but difficult, decision and walked away.

          I guess some will never get that also.



          Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

          I find it awfully convenient that everyone simply states that the cop was over zealous, wrong, acted stupidly, etc. and overlooking the simple fact that if Gates had simply offered up his ID when asked, the whole thing would most likely have ended with:

          "Thank you Mr. Gates. Have a pleasant evening"

          Cops CAN be @$, to be sure. But from EVERY account - including Gates' - he opened HIS big mouth.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Hi Tim,

            I stand by what I said. If he simply showed his ID the first time he asked it would have been over - incident free - in minutes.

            He started it, the cop finished it. It should have never gotten so that out of hand in the first place. The cop went there in the first place to protect Gates (remember - there was a call of a possibly burglary in progress).

            An error in judgment by the cop - perhaps. But a bigger error in judgment by Gates for pushing in the first place. All I am saying is it's interesting that people are glossing over this fact and want to paint Gates as some great "victim" and the cop as some bully when in fact, you could almost say it was the other way around.

            Mike



            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Hi Mike,

            Weird thing is, he did offer up his id. He still got arrested. In his own home!

            This thing could also have been avoided if the cop just made a wise, but difficult, decision and walked away.

            I guess some will never get that also.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Excellent post Marisue. Coming from a wife of a 30 year cop it carries a lot of weight.

      Thank you.

      Originally Posted by MarisueWrites View Post

      Facts Matter. He was arrested AFTER his identity had been established. Being rude is not against the law, and he was agitated. My husband was a cop for 30 years and let me tell you, he would not have lived that long had he given in to his own ego and anger, which is what this cop did.

      When you're in the house of a resident, you are the intruder and should exercise great caution and diplomacy when there is no apparent threat. I do agree that taking the Professor to the porch to continue the discussion might be safer for the police, but once he had given ID, they needed to be exercising their diffusing anger skills and back out, thank him, move on.

      They both got mad, the cop is paid not to get mad. I hope we all learn that cops are people too, and make mistakes. The officer should say, "I could have handled this in a manner that might have helped the Professor calm down and not feel so invaded while we did our job."

      However, I do think the nation needs to move on, and let these two people have their lives and get over this. They can grow from it, the nation seems to be beating it to death. Or the media.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarisueWrites
    It's not racist to call an act made by someone "acting stupidly" -- because they are white and Obama is white/black he's a racist?? He was acting as an advisor and said nothing even remotely racist, like Rush and Crazy Glen Beck do everyday of their life. They incite hatred, anger, rebellion, racism, and discouragement as well as a disrespect for differences. In My Opinion, but I think Rush and Beck have a wide reputation for being "angry" individuals. $$$$ all the way to the bank cuz apparently enough people "acting stupidly" like to hear their angry rhetoric.

    It's interesting that Rush and Beck both have addiction issues and call themselves an authority on so many subjects. I'm surprised they both aren't in jail.
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    • Profile picture of the author blalock61
      Originally Posted by MarisueWrites View Post

      It's not racist to call an act made by someone "acting stupidly" -- because they are white and Obama is white/black he's a racist?? He was acting as an advisor and said nothing even remotely racist, like Rush and Crazy Glen Beck do everyday of their life. They incite hatred, anger, rebellion, racism, and discouragement as well as a disrespect for differences. In My Opinion, but I think Rush and Beck have a wide reputation for being "angry" individuals. $$$$ all the way to the bank cuz apparently enough people "acting stupidly" like to hear their angry rhetoric.

      It's interesting that Rush and Beck both have addiction issues and call themselves an authority on so many subjects. I'm surprised they both aren't in jail.

      Care to post facts or use rationality or are going by what your buddies at Media Matters, the DailyKos, etc. tell you?

      Or are facts and the use of rationality and common sense as waste of your time?
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by blalock61 View Post

        Care to post facts or use rationality or are going by what your buddies at Media Matters, the DailyKos, etc. tell you?

        Or are facts and the use of rationality and common sense as waste of your time?
        Which facts do you mean?
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  • Profile picture of the author FlyNDance
    Omg... is that true?
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  • Profile picture of the author vnalinks
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by vnalinks View Post

      Something should be done about cops.

      They take the law in their own hands.

      They no longer remember their prime duty...

      Protecting citizens.

      Cops give a bad name to law.

      Veena
      You are certainly right USUALLY, but that wasn't the caase here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunshine123
    Prof. Gates overreacted in my opinion
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Tim, Steve - even the people involved in this debate put it behind them.

    Why not simply agree to disagree now. Because you are both starting to nitpick each others words and not really accomplishing much.

    Of course, that's just my own opinion...

    "Can't we all just get along?"
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    • Profile picture of the author Asp1re8o5
      Wow, pretty hot debate.

      I agree with Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Asp1re8o5 View Post

        Wow, pretty hot debate.

        I agree with Mike
        The sad thinng is I do also! As I have said all along, we should NEVER have heard about this! Prior to my discussing them as examples of what I don't like about the police, etc.... you NEVER heard of MY problems! I was almost arrested at LEAST once, and almost shot like TWICE! But ALL times the cop happened to be white. I think ONCE it was a woman, but OH WELL. I won't scream sexism either. Hey, one time a BULLY in SCHOOL threatened to shot me! ANOTHER tried to run me over with a car(he was EIGHT at the time!)! He seriously zigzagged on the street and came close to going over the border to hit me! The next day, at school, he took credit for it laughingly. AGAIN, ALL were white. I got along with most people, but was one of those that was just BULLIED. If I were black, I might have considered it racism. Some blacks, hispanics, asians DIDN'T like me, and THAT I consider racism. One school I went to might have been 1/4 hispanic and 1/4 white americans. The rest were all over the place. We had armenians, iranians, etc... Another was perhaps 1/2 black.

        BTW for the record. I have NEVER been arrested or shot. The FBI has my fingerprints ONLY because I registered to sell securities(They require fingerprints for such licensing.), so I guess I better be CAREFUL if I DO decide to become a burglar. They may EVEN have a rather complete file on me because I was a reference for someeone else's top secret clearance(A former FBI agent, acting for the FBI, interviewed me to get any possible dirt on the candidate. Obviously, that means they have to check out MY past as well.)! WHO KNOWS. Most believe I NEVER drink alcohol or coffee and LOVE junk food. I wonder what the FBI thinks! Do you think THEY figured that all of that is WRONG?

        There is a LOT wrong with the US and investigating complaints is dangerous and almost every criminal lies to make himself/herself seem blameless. SOME take HOSTAGES to lie for them. I can see how a minority might consider some of that racism, but they have to understand that it is reasonable and whites are treated the SAME WAY! Although I have been treated a bit differently from other whites, I know OTHER whites are treated the same way here as well!

        Steve
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