how bad is bullying in school and the effects on kids

11 years ago

It might mean more if it didn't come from an organization known as the biggest buly on the planet. And WOW, I guess it can't be much of a problem if ALL that ever see it do things that less than 30% of the US now does, and are at a level that less than 40% of the US is at. And there ALSO isn't much overlap of the 30% and the 40%.

ALSO, they even ******ADMIT****** that they only care about 2 small groups, which is like trying to use the water in the ocean to show that they are doing a lot by taking care of two drops of water! I knew a number of people that were bullied, and I was, but FEW were "special needs" or LGBT. HECK, I knew some bullies that were LG. Some simply see being a bully as being less trouble than being nice, and seeing someone bully you.

THEY want you to look at this as a parody, but I have heard REAL people expouse these ideas, so it COULD happen, and we are seeing the START! The bible speaks of places where it DID.

Imagine A World Where Being "Gay" The...

People are bullied for MANY things! HECK, my step mother has a MR child, and that may be why she is REALLY involved with a program to help special needs kids. I got interested in AS, and asked her about that. She said that it lost favor because they don't need help with certain things. So her group helps with many special needs programs, but they relate to people that are "low functioning". Some of the programs don't even address such needs, but they address them only for low functioning people. STILL, social problems THEMSELVES can be subject to a lot of bullying. After a point, it gets to have precisely the opposite effect of being a beloved celebrity. A persons name, physical ability, certain reactions, motions, or sensibilities can be a source of ridicule one can be bullied for. Bullying can be endless name calling, blackballing, shunning, hitting, killing, etc.... Yet the government ignores ALL of that and claims they are helping. HECK, even diabetes could maybe be a source of bullying!

Steve

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ksmusselman

11 years ago

My son, who is almost 34 now, has epilepsy and he was bullied in school, until I taught him to fight back!

Some kid took a swing at him in school and instead of letting himself get knocked around, he replied with a punch of his own; never got bullied again - EVER.

In the words of an old friend of mine, take out the biggest bully first and the rest will run. And that's how I raised my kids.

My opinion on bullying is this - we need to stop sissifying our kids, crying to the teachers, crying to the principle, etc.

When my kids were little, if they saw someone bullying a smaller kid or someone with a special condition, they simply took out the bully. Period. But noooo, today's society is so anti-violence that the bullies are getting stronger! B*S* in my opinion.

You don't stop bullying until you stop the bullies. Period.

Forrest Jamison People will eventually get tired...

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ksmusselman

<snip> But noooo, today's society is so anti-violence that the bullies are getting stronger! B*S* in my opinion.
<snip>

I am trying to get my head around all that. If US society is so anti-violence, why has it gotten into so many unnecessary and avoidable wars? That said, your approach to dealing with bullies is the time-proven way to deal with them. Apart from know self-defense, being skilled at defusing situations can serve a person well. Thus, in my son's martial arts classes, a lot of emphasis is placed on learning the art of diplomacy along with the ability to kick ass.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I am trying to get my head around all that. If US society is so anti-violence, why has it gotten into so many unnecessary and avoidable wars? That said, your approach to dealing with bullies is the time-proven way to deal with them. Apart from know self-defense, being skilled at defusing situations can serve a person well. Thus, in my son's martial arts classes, a lot of emphasis is placed on learning the art of diplomacy along with the ability to kick ass.

US society WAS anti violence. The US government hasn't followed society for a LONG time! NOW, they practically RUN the schools, and try to teach things as they want them, and are passing all sorts of laws that will grow the worse parts of society, so things are getting WORSE. HECK, look at where the US was in WWI! The US was not prepared for it AT ALL! Even in earlier DOMESTIC wars the US enlisted help from other countries! I don't think the US had EVER been in much of a foreign war up to WWI. The US was isolated, had a lot of people with resources, and was innovative and had a lot of technology. Only THAT allowed the US to gear up fast enough to even SHOW in WWI! By WWII, the US was certainly in a FAR better situation, had a foreign harbor near the area that was thought to be practically impenetrable, etc...

Steve

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discrat

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ksmusselman;10113923

My opinion on bullying is this - we need to stop sissifying our kids, crying to the teachers, crying to the principle, etc.

When my kids were little, if they saw someone bullying a smaller kid or someone with a special condition, they simply took out the bully. Period. But noooo, today's society is so anti-violence that the bullies are getting stronger! B*S* in my opinion.

You don't stop bullying until you stop the bullies. Period.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDk7Sh3jA8E"

Forrest Jamison People will eventually get tired of your bullying and fight back hard! - YouTube[/url]

I agree to a certain extent, Karen.

But there are some kids who are NOT built to physically confront other kids.

Its not a matter of "sissyfying" kids.

It is just a fact.

Not just physically but mentally as well.

I think it is somewhat cruel and very unfair to expect every kid who is getting bully to rise up to the occasion and fight back.

its not realistic

P.S. if iam getting bullied and physical confronted at my place of work I shouldn't be expected to have to fight back. Rather, the police should be called and the person should be charged with assault and set straight that way.

Why should it be different for a kid at school ?

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Ryan David

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ksmusselman

My son, who is almost 34 now, has epilepsy and he was bullied in school, until I taught him to fight back!

Some kid took a swing at him in school and instead of letting himself get knocked around, he replied with a punch of his own; never got bullied again - EVER.

In the words of an old friend of mine, take out the biggest bully first and the rest will run. And that's how I raised my kids.

My opinion on bullying is this - we need to stop sissifying our kids, crying to the teachers, crying to the principle, etc.

When my kids were little, if they saw someone bullying a smaller kid or someone with a special condition, they simply took out the bully. Period. But noooo, today's society is so anti-violence that the bullies are getting stronger! B*S* in my opinion.

You don't stop bullying until you stop the bullies. Period.

Forrest Jamison People will eventually get tired of your bullying and fight back hard! - YouTube

Some kids are sissies and will try to fight back and get their a&s handed to them. What's your solution then? The parents/teachers will just let the kids get wailed on until they graduate?

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discrat

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan David

Some kids are sissies and will try to fight back and get their a&s handed to them. What's your solution then? The parents/teachers will just let the kids get wailed on until they graduate?

yeah, like I said this is just an unrealistic why to look at this situation.

And a very dangerous one at that.

Iam a physical and very passive/aggresive person. Always have been. I do not have a problem with confronting anyone who is abusing or being disrespectful towards another human being.

Im 6 ft. 210. I just am not naive enough to think that every human being or kid can stand up to a bully and teach him a lesson like I can.

They shouldn't have to !

And its unrealisic and very dangerous to expect them to.

Bottom line it is the wrong message to send to our society.

I ask Karen what if you are being bullied by a stranger at the gas station.
Should I tell you to stand up to the bully and put him in his place?

Of course not. That is insane

Why should we expect our children to act differently ? A hit in the face to you by a bully is no more painful than a hit in the face to my 6 year old daughter who is trying to stand up to a bully at school.

This is why we have the proper authorities in place including police officers , teachers, principals to handle situations like this appropriately.

Please, lets send a loud and clear message to the bullies that there will be severe repercussions to their actions including potential jail time

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Lance K

11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

I ask Karen what if you are being bullied by a stranger at the gas station.
Should I tell you to stand up to the bully and put him in his place?

Of course not. That is insane

Why should we expect our children to act differently?

Being confronted at the gas station by a stranger that you'll likely never see again isn't the same thing as bullying.

That said, I'm not sure what exactly constitutes bullying.

Now, taking the physical acts out of it...IMO we'd be better off to teach our kids to have a "F#*k 'em" attitude about mean people rather than teaching them that they're being bullied because some insecure, mental midget school mate told them that they have buck teeth or ugly clothes. We're manufacturing a generation of victims because we don't take the time to explain that the only way someone else's words have any power over them is if they allow them to.

As for the physical bullying, you gotta know when it's the right time & place to fight back. Sometimes you gotta punch the bully in the mouth if you really want it to stop. Think Kenny Rodgers' "Coward of the County".

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discrat

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Now, taking the physical acts out of it...IMO we'd be better off to teach our kids to have a "F#*k 'em" attitude about mean people rather than teaching them that they're being bullied because some insecure, mental midget school mate told them that they have buck teeth or ugly clothes. We're manufacturing a generation of victims because we don't take the time to explain that the only way someone else's words have any power over them is if they allow them to.

.

This is the biggest bunch of baloney. We have to teach our kids to be respectful and not use hurtful words

And the notion that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"...

that is an antiquated and erroneous way to look at Life.

This was 30 years ago mentality when I was growing up.

Words do HURT. Words can SCAR people for the rest of their Life.

To suggest otherwise is pure folly and someone living in a dream world

Words are Power. Especially to an under developed Mind of a pre- teen.

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Lance K

11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

This is the biggest bunch of baloney. We have to teach our kids to be respectful and not use hurtful words

And the notion that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"...

that is an antiquated and erroneous way to look at Life.

This was 30 years ago mentality when I was growing up.

Words do HURT. Words can SCAR people for the rest of their Life.

To suggest otherwise is pure folly and someone living in a dream world

Words are Power. Especially to an under developed Mind of a pre- teen.

Agreed, we should teach kids to be kind. Mean people suck.

Can't agree on the rest. Someone else's words have no power unless you allow them to. You control your reactions. The truth never grows obsolete.

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Cali16

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Can't agree on the rest. Someone else's words have no power unless you allow them to. You control your reactions. The truth never grows obsolete.

That's a mighty lofty (and overused) aphorism, Lance. There are very few people who are truly made of such emotional teflon. The ones who claim to be often aren't as psychologically healthy as they'd like to believe.

Sure, it's one thing to let the stinging words of a moron, who's opinion doesn't matter to you, not have a genuine emotional impact - especially when you're a little older. But when a parent, close friend, respected mentor, romantic partner, or anyone else who's opinion you value for whatever reason, says something that cuts deep, it's a very rare adult who can just let that "roll off", let a lone a child.

Personally, I hope I never become so emotionally detached or cold that no one's words can hurt me. Some degree of emotional vulnerability, combined with self-awareness, is healthy.

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Lance K

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

That's a mighty lofty (and overused) aphorism, Lance. There are very few people who are truly made of such emotional teflon. The ones who claim to be often aren't as psychologically healthy as they'd like to believe.

Sure, it's one thing to let the stinging words of a moron, who's opinion doesn't matter to you, not have a genuine emotional impact - especially when you're a little older. But when a parent, close friend, respected mentor, romantic partner, or anyone else who's opinion you value for whatever reason, says something that cuts deep, it's a very rare adult who can just let that "roll off", let a lone a child.

Personally, I hope I never become so emotionally detached or cold that no one's words can hurt me. Some degree of emotional vulnerability, combined with self-awareness, is healthy.

I get what you're saying. But you aren't speaking of bullies.

Sometimes in the examples you gave above, you need someone's words to cut deep. But their words are not aimed to hurt, they are meant to help. Regardless, you still choose your reaction to them. I'm not talking about the emotions their words make you feel, but rather how you react to their words.

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Ryan David

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Agreed, we should teach kids to be kind. Mean people suck.

Can't agree on the rest. Someone else's words have no power unless you allow them to. You control your reactions. The truth never grows obsolete.

You are speaking as the person removed from the situation. This would be the equivalent of telling a person that has depression to just cheer up a little bit.

I guarantee it would have an effect on you to be forced to go into a job where your peers jabbed at you all day long and belittled you. Maybe it wouldn't get to you the first day, but imagine being forced to go someplace and face these people every day.

And remember that the insults are probably pointed enough to where you might be thinking the same thing yourself. You get a bad grade on a test and someone says "Geez, this test was easy. You must be stupid" or if you put on weight and they say "Lance, you're getting a little fat aren't you?"

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Lance K

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan David

You are speaking as the person removed from the situation. This would be the equivalent of telling a person that has depression to just cheer up a little bit.

I guarantee it would have an effect on you to be forced to go into a job where your peers jabbed at you all day long and belittled you. Maybe it wouldn't get to you the first day, but imagine being forced to go someplace and face these people every day.

And remember that the insults are probably pointed enough to where you might be thinking the same thing yourself. You get a bad grade on a test and someone says "Geez, this test was easy. You must be stupid" or if you put on weight and they say "Lance, you're getting a little fat aren't you?"

Not that far removed. I see what you're saying though. But I never said it wouldn't have any effect. Only that one's reactions are a choice. Personally, I either ignored it or ended it depending on the situation.

That's not to say that there aren't ever severe instances that require 3rd party intervention. Luckily I've never been in THAT spot. And I truly feel for those that have.

Look, I'm all for anti-bullying education. I just don't believe that every time a kid puts a "kick me" sign on another kid's back, stacks someone's locker, or gives someone a tittie twister that we need to declare it bullying.

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discrat

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

Being confronted at the gas station by a stranger that you'll likely never see again isn't the same thing as bullying.

.

Fine then ! Lets say you are being bullied at work by someone who is not a stranger. Over and over again day by day. Should Karen or you be encouraged to sock this adult bully in the mouth at the 'right time and right place' ??

Of course not. thats insane. But yet you think it is okay for a child to do it and actually encourage it??

Please explain...

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discrat

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

As for the physical bullying, you gotta know when it's the right time & place to fight back. Sometimes you gotta punch the bully in the mouth if you really want it to stop. Think Kenny Rodgers' "Coward of the County".

Yeah tell that to a 10 yr. old girl with muscle dystrophy, or a 12 yr. old boy who has hemophilia

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Lance K 11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Yeah tell that to a 10 yr. old girl with muscle dystrophy, or a 12 yr. old boy who has hemophilia

Haha, you blow off my comments as baloney yet you're the one assuming that what I said applies to everyone. Of course there are some people who simply cannot defend themselves. One would think that goes without saying.

Hopefully there is a group of decent kids around to confront the bully on their behalf. It takes a special kind of sick to bully someone who is sick, handicapped, etc.
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Lance K

11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Fine then ! Lets say you are being bullied at work by someone who is not a stranger. Over and over again day by day. Should Karen or you be encouraged to sock this adult bully in the mouth at the 'right time and right place' ??

Of course not. thats insane. But yet you think it is okay for a child to do it and actually encourage it??

Please explain...

Depends. If it's physical, then hell yes. If it's not physical, then no...there are probably better options.

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SteveJohnson 11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Please, lets send a loud and clear message to the bullies that there will be severe repercussions to their actions including potential jail time

Jail time for a kid bully? What a crock of crap.

EDIT:
As big a crock of crap as having police in schools - for friggin 12 year olds???
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- discrat 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by SteveJohnson
  
  Jail time for a kid bully? What a crock of crap.
  
  EDIT:
  As big a crock of crap as having police in schools - for friggin 12 year olds???
  
  Its called Juvenile Hall or Juvenile Detention !
  
  And if the kid is 18 years old and beats the shit out of someone in high school why wouldn't he go to jail ?
  
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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

yeah, like I said this is just an unrealistic why to look at this situation.

And a very dangerous one at that.

Iam a physical and very passive/aggresive person. Always have been. I do not have a problem with confronting anyone who is abusing or being disrespectful towards another human being.

Im 6 ft. 210. I just am not naive enough to think that every human being or kid can stand up to a bully and teach him a lesson like I can.

They shouldn't have to !

And its unrealisic and very dangerous to expect them to.

Bottom line it is the wrong message to send to our society.

I ask Karen what if you are being bullied by a stranger at the gas station.
Should I tell you to stand up to the bully and put him in his place?

Of course not. That is insane

Why should we expect our children to act differently ? A hit in the face to you by a bully is no more painful than a hit in the face to my 6 year old daughter who is trying to stand up to a bully at school.

This is why we have the proper authorities in place including police officers , teachers, principals to handle situations like this appropriately.

Please, lets send a loud and clear message to the bullies that there will be severe repercussions to their actions including potential jail time

I've worked with the "authorities" and they're, in general, a hell of a lot more likely to promote the victim attitude than dispel it.

You are correct, though. It doesn't matter how tough you are or what you know, there's always someone out there that can hand your **s to you on a platter.

I don't see that any reason for sissifying our kids. Like TB said - martial arts teaches to use diplomacy first, then physical defense if necessary. If you teach a kid to run and get authorities, you are building a victim mentality in that child and predators can see that in a person. You will be building a life long victim. I know because I worked with some of them trying to get that crap out of their heads.

If you think your little girl getting pounded in the face is worse than instilling a victim mentality, I feel extremely sorry for your little girl. Remember - by the time she's 14 it could be rape and pregnancy she faces as a victim. Who do you think is going to be there to stop that when it is happening besides herself?

That's why you teach kids self defense. Also instill an attitude of helping someone who is getting bullied - that's the best defense ever when someone bullies someone and gets jeered at by every peer in their school for it.

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When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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TomE 11 years ago

Well said! Being able to handle adversity on our own is the best first step in combating bullying. Hit 'em back twice as hard usually puts an end to future bullying episodes. It's also helpful to have quality resources to help handle this type of conflict. I recommend in depth, collective research on the subject. For example, Liya Panayatova, Clinical Psychologist, in her book "Optimum Bully Defense," recommends "Bullying is not a fight that victims or parents should lead alone, because it is a collective problem."
Therefore I would suggest a group effort to tackling this problem. Get people (plural) involved so the bullied aren't by themselves which can often lead to suicide!
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psinxo

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan David

Some kids are sissies and will try to fight back and get their a&s handed to them. What's your solution then? The parents/teachers will just let the kids get wailed on until they graduate?

I think that fighting back is the way to go, win or lose. If the child does not defend himself/herself, they will always be picked on.

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TomE 11 years ago

Great YouTube video of the bigger guy retaliating appropriately with a monster slam. That does the trick, stopping bullying in its tracks!
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TomE 11 years ago

Great video post. That take down was fantastic. Not something that every kid can handle. But the message is still the same and very clear. Force must be met with force, ks, otherwise the victim becomes even more tormented! Never had to deal with this as a kid myself. Amazed at how epidemic it is today in schools.
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- IndianaJones 11 years ago
  
  No one bullied Indiana when he was a kid.........
  
  The guy who named his son "SUE" brought on bullying but it made the kid tough in the end...... If you believe the song sung by my friend Johnny Cash....
  
  A Boy Named Sue: Johnny Cash - YouTube
  
  Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.....
  
  The above is not to lessen the seriousness of bullying, but just wanted to add some humor in the midst of the pain......
  
  Indiana
  
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HeySal

11 years ago

You're right on that, Ken. My dad was teaching me to defend myself by the time I was in Kindergarten.

I was also taught that bullies were very sick in the head - no ego, think the only way to get attention is to be mean. Feel so different that they use force to make themselves feel more normal......yadda, yadda.

I was taught to make them feel stupid for attacking me, and if that doesn't work I'm dealing with someone with severe enough mental issues that the only way to deal with it was head on. If you don't end it, it won't end and if you run and tattle instead of dealing with it yourself, there will be some time, somewhere, you will pay for that, too. You can't count on 24/7 protection. Our gov wants you to think there's such a thing, but there's not. The only thing you ever actually report is if there's a whole violent group at you and you are in danger of your life.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

If you don't end it, it won't end and if you run and tattle instead of dealing with it yourself, there will be some time, somewhere, you will pay for that, too. You can't count on 24/7 protection. Our gov wants you to think there's such a thing, but there's not. The only thing you ever actually report is if there's a whole violent group at you and you are in danger of your life.

Schools seem to generally ENCOURAGE bullying! Many TV shows and even the most recent news, show examples of bullying by teachers and upper faculty, and they will show some encouraging of STUDENT bullies. HECK, the government EVEN promises to protect the JOBS of bullies! If you are a school employee, it is HARD to fire you, and "punishment" may be as simple as a "PAID VACATION"!!!! They are paid, and basically told to simply not work. If you are a student, and happen to fall into, or CLAIM to fall into, a protected class, or decide to go into government work, or in a union, your job is generally protected THERE also!

As for "protection"? There is currently a saying making the rounds about the government, as far as police.... "When SECONDS count, we are only MINUTES away!". That is actually an unfair statement. English is still to imprecise for such a saying. It may take as little as a few minutes for a call to originate, maybe a few minutes to get to dispatch, and a few minutes to get assigned. So that is like 10 minutes right there! And it might take them 10 minutes to get to you. If you are fighting in winter, your DEAD body could get frostbite before they arrive, and MAYBE before they are called, if they ever are!

Still, once they get there, what will they do? SHOOT? Attack the kid? Try to "reason"?

Yeah, it is simply not possible to properly protect a person AT ALL! OH, you might ask "WHAT ABOUT THE SECRET SERVICE!?!?!?!?" Don't even bother! It fully supports my point! The secret ****SERVICE**** goes EVERYWHERE the president goes. I happened to see the secret service in action when a presidential candidate, and vice president, spoke in a park across the street from where I lived! I happened to be in the apartment managers office when the secret service arrived DAYS BEFORE the appearance! So WHY were they there? The roof of my apartment was a great place to shoot from. The secret service asked about access, and went up there. I bet they had surveillance and even had people there during the rally. During the rally, the secret service was on and nearby the stage as well as in the audience! And I knew that the secret service was large, but I had no idea HOW large. Unless you have spent some time in Washington DC, you may not fully appreciate how large it is. It is almost HALF the size of the LAPD! HECK, EVEN CELEBRITIES have body GUARDS surround them at points! So imagine how hard it would be to protect a kid to the same degree. YEP! There aren't enough people to properly protect all.

2010
LAPD 9,963 EMPLOYEES
TODAY
SECRET SERVICE
4,400 OFFICERS(over 44% of the size. BESIDES, the 4400 are people actually investigating and protecting. The 9963 includes secretaries, internal affairs, statisticians, dispatcers, etc... )
For those that don't know, the LAPD(Los Angeles Police Department) is basically a police force to protect LA COUNTY. They DO have help from the sheriffs, highway patrol, etc... but you will see the LAPD patrolling a lot of the county area. And that is about 33,954 square miles (87,940 km2).

Steve

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TomE 11 years ago

I agree. We need to equip our children with defensive approaches to bullying. The government has a good site that can help. stopbullying.gov I've found the online book optimumbullydefense.com to be helpful too. The more we know the better, don't you think?
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HeySal

11 years ago

One of the first things I taught women when I was at the crisis center is that most - almost all - rapists (and a lot of just general abusers) count on the victim to be submissive. There are actually cues they get from the woman's body language that tells them if the woman is an easy target. While I do a few things that signal me out as a victim, if someone gets too close I clue them in real fast that I'm not even close to it.

When I worked in Central City, one of my bosses clients (he is a lawyer - and his client was mentally deranged) came into the hotel and he was being suggestive in an uncomfortable way. I called Stew and told him that I had told the guy twice that he couldn't come behind the counter and I was going to have to put him on the floor if he came to close to me because I'd already told him twice not to. I was informed I would get fired for that. So I told him, fine, come on in and take over then because I'm shutting down for the night, you have no right to endanger me. I shut down. The next morning the guy came in and the girl behind the counter was stupid enough to tell the guy where I lived (the town, not the address). I got a call from Vie at the post office that some whack job in a bathrobe came in demanding my address. I called the boss back and told him if that guy came onto my property I was going to sue him for putting me in danger. He's a lawyer - he knew I could do it. He called the guy and told him to back off. I wasn't able to get any info about the guy because it was "protected info", but asked him "just tell me if the guy is dangerous." All he said is that he'd call him and make sure that he knew he'd been told to stay away. If I hadn't shut down that night no telling what situation I would have been in - but I would have protected myself and sued if I'd been fired for doing so.

You HAVE to be able to take care of yourself. A woman can deter a lot of danger just by knowing how to do it.

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TB Ann

11 years ago

Teaching them to fight back is th best way to stop bullying - doesn't matter if s/he loses the fight so long as he fight back.

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SteveJohnson

11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Please, lets send a loud and clear message to the bullies that there will be severe repercussions to their actions including potential jail time

Why don't you instead send a message to bullies that if they disrespect someone else, somewhere, sometime, someone is going to hand them their ass in a paper bag?

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discrat

11 years ago

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

Why don't you instead send a message to bullies that if they disrespect someone else, somewhere, sometime, someone is going to hand them their ass in a paper bag?

Yeah I totally see your point. Lets just do away with proper Authorities, teachers, principals, police officers and let just everyone handle everybody who misbehaves on their own accord.

Iam sure we would have such a civil society

Great message to send to our kids.

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SteveJohnson

11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Yeah I totally see your point. Lets just do away with proper Authorities, teachers, principals, police officers and let just everyone handle everybody who misbehaves on their own accord.

Iam sure we would have such a civil society

Great message to send to our kids.

We had very few bullies at the school I went to. There were a few who just didn't get the message. There were more at the beginning of the school year than at the end, though

I was raised to look out for my friends, stand up for people who couldn't stand up for themselves, and help people who needed help, and the vast majority of the time that didn't include running to the 'authorities' whining that someone was picking on my friend. That's the same message I sent my kids and it pleases me no end to see that they actually practice it in real life.

Which do you think bullies respect more - someone who stands up for themselves in the face of adversity, or someone who runs away crying for the teacher? The one who stood up may get bullied again, but the one who ran away crying for intervention definitely will.

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discrat

11 years ago

Maybe I should clarify one thing,

Iam not the one to back down from Bullies.And Iam not the one to believe that a bully should not get his ass whipped when the chance arises.

I get involved when I can.

For instance, at 6 flags the other day I saw this guy arguing and then putting his hands on this girl. My wife went and got security and I ran to track him down. But to no avail in such a big crowd.

All Iam saying is that we should NOT expect every human being to be able to physically confront every bullying situation

We should have people properly trained that they can go to to get help.

Steve, I really wished we had more people like you and me to help others but its just not realistic or viable

Unfortunately, we don't live in Mayberry where Barney and Andy tell little Opie to punch the bully in the mouth and teach him a lesson.

For many people, that will NOT work and it is sending a dangerous message to think otherwise.

What happens when the bully is an actual major badass and puts the victim in the hospital or worse yet 8 feet under ?

Sorry, but the victim should NOT feel obligated to have to go up against the Bully. I will disagree with Andy Griffith on this one

That being said I will have to agree with Sal wholeheartedly about the Martial Arts.

That is something Iam really considering for my children.

Great point and something to really look into

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

That being said I will have to agree with Sal wholeheartedly about the Martial Arts.

That is something Iam really considering for my children.

Great point and something to really consider

You should know that the ability to defend themselves isn't what they will get out of the classes. It's the confidence they grow. Bullies don't pick on confident kids. Any ability they develop is very secondary.

When I was in high school, I had a couple bullies really pester me. One popular kid offered to fight them...defend me. I was touched by the gesture. But I told him, "There isn't a need to fight for me. I can defend myself, I choose not to". He had no idea what I was talking about. One of the bullies eventually became a friend.

My little brother (two years younger) had a habit of starting a fight, thinking I would defend him. I had to tell him that I wouldn't defend him, if he started a fight. And saying "My brother is going to beat you up" is always wrong..

I was hoping he would become more responsible.

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TomE 11 years ago

Well said, Steve! We don't need another victim class of people, with all respect to those being bullied. It's a tricky issue, of course, but not insurmountable. I like your approach (recommendation) for sure.
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bizgrower

11 years ago

Verbal "Judo" and confidence go along way. Simple things are effective. Verbal bullying, just ask in a loud voice what they just said - especially if other people are in ear shot, or you make them within earshot.

Same thing for physical bullying. Rarely do bullies out right start throwing punches. Usually it's taunting and pushing... and there is still time to say something, or ignore them and go on your way.

If it does become unavoidably physical, one has to do the best they can to defend themselves
and people should learn to defend themselves.

Of course, everybody should try to live within the bounds of the law and go to authorities, but that is not always practicable. No time to wait when the bully has to be stopped NOW. Some teachers and admins and other school employees just freeze instead of taking action.

In a school setting, I do not agree with the practice of both kids getting in trouble. The instigator should get in as big of trouble as possible as swift as possible. If all one did is defend themselves as needed, that should be fine.

We should all defend the defenseless.

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by bizgrower

Verbal "Judo" and confidence go along way. Simple things are effective. Verbal bullying, just ask in a loud voice what they just said - especially if other people are in ear shot, or you make them within earshot.

Same thing for physical bullying. Rarely do bullies out right start throwing punches. Usually it's taunting and pushing... and there is still time to say something, or ignore them and go on your way.

If it does become unavoidably physical, one has to do the best they can to defend themselves
and people should learn to defend themselves.

Of course, everybody should try to live within the bounds of the law and go to authorities, but that is not always practicable. No time to wait when the bully has to be stopped NOW. Some teachers and admins and other school employees just freeze instead of taking action.

In a school setting, I do not agree with the practice of both kids getting in trouble. The instigator should get in as big of trouble as possible as swift as possible. If all one did is defend themselves as needed, that should be fine.

We should all defend the defenseless.

Authorities have since time immemorial done a piss-poor job at putting a stop to bullying, but yeah giving them notice (so, by virtue of their non-responsive incompetence in dealing with the problem, they have less cause to punish a child for applying physical self-defense if it gets to that point). They're probably bullying colleagues in the workplace themselves (it is not as if bullying actually goes away. It just takes different forms).

To prepare a child to deal with bullies, developing a number of skills would help:
1. The art of peacefully defusing a threatening situation.
2. Learning comedy techniques to alter the mood of a situation.
3. Of course, learning effective physical self-defense. With 1 and 2, the need to do so can be radically reduced.
4. Reading, "The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli" and learning to apply strategies within it so as not to fall prey to adult variations of bullying, something that never actually goes away.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Authorities have since time immemorial done a piss-poor job at putting a stop to bullying, but yeah giving them notice (so, by virtue of their non-responsive incompetence in dealing with the problem, they have less cause to punish a child for applying physical self-defense if it gets to that point).

Yeah, "the authorities" are one of the biggest culprits!

They're probably bullying colleagues in the workplace themselves (it is not as if bullying actually goes away. It just takes different forms).

You have THAT right.

To prepare a child to deal with bullies, developing a number of skills would help:
1. The art of peacefully defusing a threatening situation.
2. Learning comedy techniques to alter the mood of a situation.
3. Of course, learning effective physical self-defense. With 1 and 2, the need to do so can be radically reduced.
4. Reading, "The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli" and learning to apply strategies within it so as not to fall prey to adult variations of bullying, something that never actually goes away.

You have been watching TOO MUCH TV! 1,2, and 4 are likely to be worthless. Having friends with a reputation of backing friends up, and a reputation for being able to exert a lot of force, or subdue attacks, are probably the best things. It really is astounding how bullies are, but I think it is often a mixture of FEAR that they will be bullied, FEAR that a part of THEM or their makeup will be ridiculed, or a misplaced sense of ego. Of course SOME just want fights or to tease. HECK, I had a bully once that was very hard to communicate with. He didn't even belong in the school, but you know how the US is. Anyway, I found out that a "friend" of his was lying about me! So he thought I was an enemy of his, and I wished him no ill will at all.

Steve

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thunderbird 11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

<snip>

You have been watching TOO MUCH TV! 1,2, and 4 are likely to be worthless. <snip>

I haven't even had a TV for five years, and didn't watch much before that. All of those techniques have worked for me on numerous occasions when I was under threat. I wouldn't be alive here writing this message if they hadn't. Number 4 is especially valuable on many levels.
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bizgrower

11 years ago

I got lucky in college. (Sorry, Riffle, not that kind of story.) There were these three or four guys in the dorms who would go around and try to start fights with guys who were walking alone. They would start by saying they heard you said something negative about one of their group.

The first time I ran into them, I told them what cowards they were for trying to go four on one, and I walked away.

Shortly afterwards, three other boys from another college came to through our dorm looking for trouble and started to vandalize the dorm. Another guy on my floor - Pete S. - knew how to fight and put all three of them down for the count. (I heard some noises and came out of my room and saw the strangers trying to recover on the floor.)

The lucky part is that I looked a bit like Pete, and that local little group of bullies never tried anything with me again. I think mistaken identity is what happened. Good thing for them they did not try to mess with Pete thinking he was just another guy.

One of the guys in that group of bullies did run for a position in student government and probably did go on to bullying in the work place, or worse.

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seasoned

11 years ago

You know, it is funny. I have historically been a PACIFIST! I would have LOVED it if the humans that first lived here left it the eden it WAS! In a ay, the Bible was RIGHT, and it is FACT! It tells almost PRECISELY where eden was. It could STILL be a nice place. Lots of people live there even TODAY! But the bible said that the people ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That technically means, in English poetic talk that the people HEARD AND ACCEPTED(ate of ) the rewards that could come(FRUIT OF) the business of all that the law was created to fight against(the use of EVIL methods against those that are good), aka the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

So what of the people that live there today? A group lives near there and are surrounded by others that want to destroy them, even if it means destroying the planet and themselves. It is interesting since they ALL claim to go back to ONE man! The first group claims to go back to one woman, the mans first wife, named sarai, or is it sarah? The second group claims to go back to one woman, that mans wives slave, hagar.

Anyway, I lost any faith in the majority of humanity. Even 2 thirds of the time that people seem overly nice, there is an ultimate goal.

And TODAY, you have well over a billion people trying to act overly nice, and they are about as evil as satan was ever rumored to be, even if they don't believe it. They believe that they can restrict speech, actions, etc... and turn nature itself on its head and end up with paradise. They have tried it for hundreds of years in recent history, and possibly MILLENIA , and ALWAYS failed. But they keep trying. Does anyone SERIOUSLY think it has NEVER been tried?

As to poetic pose? SATAN exists!!!!!! It comes from the Hebrew Ha Satan! It basically means ADVERSARY!

Steve

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socialentry Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

You know, it is funny. I have historically been a PACIFIST

Me too, I am a pacifist.
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- discrat 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by socialentry
  
  Me too, I am a pacifist.
  
  Me too , Im a putifist ( in a bully's noggin)
  
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how bad is bullying in school and the effects on kids

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