Official Psychopath Alert Thread...

9 years ago

I know most (edit: a lot I know) people are against carry & conceal, but I don't think there would be a manhunt right now if more people believed in it. Just sickening. ;/

When do the parents who keep producing these kids come up for their time in front of the law?

I think being held responsible for your kid's actions is in order for some of these cases. ;/

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AprilCT

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

I know most people are against carry & conceal, but I don't think there would be a manhunt right now if more people believed in it. Just sickening. ;/

When do the parents who keep producing these kids come up for their time in front of the law?

I think being held responsible for your kid's actions is in order for some of these cases. ;/

I don't think most people are against concealed carry for normal, law abiding citizens. There is no more reason to fear sane people concealed carrying than any sane person behind the wheel of an automobile.

Perhaps if one or more in that church had a concealed carry on them, they could have put a quick stop to the shooter before he killed 9 people. I think I read somewhere the guy reloaded 5 times!

Concealed carry rights are there for a very good reason. It means you have a very good chance of defending yourself, family and others when CRIMINALS are out to harm you.

You will never stop criminals from having guns. It makes a lot more sense to enforce the laws we have instead of taking rights away from the law abiding because we have criminals who won't obey the laws.

I believe the shooter was 21. After what age would you recommend that parents could stop being responsible for what their adult children do? Decent people who raise their children teaching them good morals are not responsible for the choices made by their adult children. While I can agree there are a lot of parents who teach their children to do what is wrong and perhaps should be responsible; once the kids are adults, can there be a reason they should not know the difference between right and wrong?

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

I don't think most people are against concealed carry for normal, law abiding citizens. There is no more reason to fear sane people concealed carrying than any sane person behind the wheel of an automobile.

We are not seeing many people purposefully killing people by automobile though. I've never been much of a big gun control person but I am warming to some changes.

Your point of only criminals having guns is well taken but surely we can come up with better ways to evaluate who gets to carry deadly force into communities than we do now. Perhaps higher license fees that cover more stringent background checks and evaluations along with periodic re-licensing ( people often develop mental illnesses over a period of time).

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BigFrank

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I've never been much of a big gun control person but I am warming to some changes.

Hmmmm. I always have been and I am starting to shift positions. On the death penalty, also. This sucker needs to fry and I volunteer to throw the switch.

Cheers. - Frank

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Doran Peck

9 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Hmmmm. I always have been and I am starting to shift positions. On the death penalty, also. This sucker needs to fry and I volunteer to throw the switch.

Cheers. - Frank

I like all those words.

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Lance K

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

I know most people are against carry & conceal,

They are???

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Synnuh

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

They are???

Most people I know get uncomfortable if they find out I'm packing.

The only pro-gun people I know are the friends I shoot with and people at the range.

Originally Posted by AprilCT

One thing to ponder, though, is why there is so much trouble today? People used to be more caring and have good, solid morals. Perhaps many in society have lost their way. I could write a book making my points for why, but we'd get this thread nuked in no time.

It's way too long of a story to get into, but pretty much nobody gave a damn about those two and they paid for it.

I think some have lost their way, some are legitimately imbalanced.

A lot, though from my experience, I think comes down to parenting or lack thereof. Letting "kids be kids" and then instilling in them less than socially acceptable morals. Or leading by poor example. Yeah, I could see that ending badly lol

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AprilCT 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

Most people I know get uncomfortable if they find out I'm packing.

The only pro-gun people I know are the friends I shoot with and people at the range.

So, perhaps, don't tell them? You are simply exercising your right. It would seem to me they'd be a helluva lot more uncomfy with a criminal near them packin' some nasty looking heat or huge sharp knives or something that goes boom and indiscriminately harms a lot of people at the same time. It's possible that nothing has rained on their parade--yet.
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Cali16

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

When do the parents who keep producing these kids come up for their time in front of the law?

I think being held responsible for your kid's actions is in order for some of these cases. ;/

Yes, there are "bad" parents who teach their children to hate certain groups of people. But there are also good parents who have children who develop antisocial personality disorder (under which psychopathy falls).

We don't yet fully understand why any particular personality disorder develops, but the general consensus with all of these disorders is that it's likely a complex blend of multiple factors, at least some of which have nothing to do with "nurture" (and not all aspects of "nurture" fall on the parents). So, automatically blaming the parents in every case isn't fair.

As for this young man in Charleston; his actions don't automatically mean he is a psychopath. I really wish people would stop using that word so liberally. Not all killers who commit such a heinous crime as this are psychopaths. Claude made an excellent point above regarding this. Strong beliefs, as well as strong emotions, can drive people to do horrible things. The actions of psychopaths aren't driven by either of those factors.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

As for this young man in Charleston; his actions don't automatically mean he is a psychopath. I really wish people would stop using that word so liberally. Not all killers who commit such a heinous crime as this are psychopaths. .

Your totally right, Cali.

Iam one of those who don't use it liberally. But I think I slipped up on this one and was too hasty without studying the facts of this case more deeply.

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Maybe this is silly and not necessary but seeing the results of a barbaric demented 21yr. old killing a bunch of innocent parishioners in South Carolina, I decided to start this Thread.

Not to glorify them but to bring Light to psychopaths worldwide in a constructive way and have effective dialogue on what we need to do as a society to deal with these sick,evil b@stards.

Live coverage: 9 killed in Charleston church shooting; manhunt under way

I watched this on the news. I don't think the kid was a psychopath. As he was shooting, he was yelling reasons why he was shooting. He believed what he was saying. That makes him a violent fool, but not a psychopath.

A real psychopath wouldn't give reasons. He would kill them because he just wanted to. The young man may not even have been mentally ill. His belief system could have just been very very extreme....like the terrorists, on 9/11.

The 18 year old that shot someone, just because he wanted to know what it felt like? That's classic psychopathic behavior.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I watched this on the news. I don't think the kid was a psychopath. As he was shooting, he was yelling reasons why he was shooting. He believed what he was saying. That makes him a violent fool, but not a psychopath.

A real psychopath wouldn't give reasons. He would kill them because he just wanted to. The young man may not even have been mentally ill. His belief system could have just been very very extreme....like the terrorists, on 9/11.

The 18 year old that shot someone, just because he wanted to know what it felt like? That's classic psychopathic behavior.

WHO SAYS?

According to Wikipedia:

The current edition of the PCL-R officially lists three factors (1.a, 1.b, and 2.a), which summarize the 20 assessed areas via factor analysis. The previous edition of the PCL-R[7] listed two factors. Factor 1 is labelled "selfish, callous and remorseless use of others". Factor 2 is labelled as "chronically unstable, antisocial and socially deviant lifestyle". There is a high risk of recidivism and mostly small likelihood of rehabilitation for those who are labelled as having "psychopathy" on the basis of the PCL-R ratings in the manual for the test, although treatment research is ongoing.

PCL-R Factors 1a and 1b are correlated with narcissistic personality disorder.[8] They are associated with extraversion and positive affect. Factor 1, the so-called core personality traits of psychopathy, may even be beneficial for the psychopath (in terms of nondeviant social functioning).[9]

PCL-R Factors 2a and 2b are particularly strongly correlated to antisocial personality disorder and borderline personality disorder and are associated with reactive anger, criminality, and impulsive violence. The target group for the PCL-R in prisons in some countries is criminals convicted of delict and/or felony. The quality of ratings may depend on how much background information is available and whether the person rated is honest and forthright.[8][9]

Steve

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

WHO SAYS?
Steve

Well Steve, since I posted it, I suppose I say.

I'm not sure how you think the stuff you quoted disagrees with me.

There are lots of sets of symptoms to define psychopathy. But a pure psychopath has no need to justify his actions.

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BigFrank Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

But a pure psychopath has no need to justify his actions.

That is correct. I most certainly do not!

Cheers. - Frank
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Well Steve, since I posted it, I suppose I say.

I'm not sure how you think the stuff you quoted disagrees with me.

There are lots of sets of symptoms to define psychopathy. But a pure psychopath has no need to justify his actions.

But he might want to all the same. People spoke of him being bipolar. Bipolar is just a word meaning manic depressive, and the depression is really something that pushes you to the brink. With all the stuff going on in places like Baltimore, it can certainly nudge them that last step. Maybe he simply wanted to tell them WHY he was pushed over. And with all that going on, they CAN be, or seem, psychopathic. MAN, I have heard of some CRAZY mood swings.

Steve

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BigFrank

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Bipolar is just a word meaning manic depressive, and the depression is really something that pushes you to the brink. Steve

I'll never cease to be amazed at how you state your ignorance as medical fact.

Bipolar - a disorder associated with mood swings ranging from depressive lows to manic highs.

Cheers. - Frank

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I'll never cease to be amazed at how you state your ignorance as medical fact.

Bipolar - a disorder associated with mood swings ranging from depressive lows to manic highs.

Cheers. - Frank

WELL, I CEASED to be really amazed at your targeting a word and forgetting ALL ELSE!

MANIC...........,DEPRESSIVE!

OK, you know why DEPRESSIVE means, I ASSUME! DO you know what MANIC means?

And I said "MAN, I have heard of some CRAZY mood swings."! HOW can you swing ONE way, if you don't swing the other?

man·ic

/ˈmanik/

adjective

adjective: manic

showing wild and apparently deranged excitement and energy.
"his manic enthusiasm"

synonyms: mad, insane, deranged, demented, maniacal, lunatic, wild, crazed, demonic, hysterical, raving, unhinged, unbalanced; More
informalcrazy;

vulgar slangbatshit

"a manic grin"

antonyms: sane

•frenetically busy; frantic.
"the pace is utterly manic"

synonyms: frenzied, feverish, frenetic, hectic, intense; More
informalhyper, mad

"manic activity"

antonyms: calm

•Psychiatry
relating to or affected by mania.
"the manic interludes in depression"

AND HEY, look at what ELSE came up!

Bipolar disorder

Also called: manic depression

SORRY, I have KNOWN people diagnosed with this disorder. I even saw one in a mental ward for it, and heard about WHY.

OH YEAH, concentrate on the FIRST MEANING: "showing WILD and apparently deranged EXCITEMENT and energy.
"his manic ENTHUSIASM""

Steve

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BigFrank Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

SORRY, I have KNOWN people diagnosed with this disorder. I even saw one in a mental ward for it, and heard about WHY. Steve

You're looking at one, Steve. Been officially diagnosed for over 20 years. It's common in people that have PTSD.

I know both sides of the coin, very well. Fortunately, for the past 10 tears I am usually manic and rarely, if ever depressed. My bouts of depression are almost not worth mentioning, they are so mild - but that is a result of weekly therapy and learning to cope.

Your statement as to what the term means was incorrect. I just felt the need to point that out.

You may now resume your incessant, incomprehensible screed. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

P.S. I thought you had me on 'ignore?' I know. I'm very hard to resist. :-)
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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I watched this on the news. I don't think the kid was a psychopath. As he was shooting, he was yelling reasons why he was shooting. He believed what he was saying. That makes him a violent fool, but not a psychopath.

A real psychopath wouldn't give reasons. He would kill them because he just wanted to. The young man may not even have been mentally ill. His belief system could have just been very very extreme....like the terrorists, on 9/11.

The 18 year old that shot someone, just because he wanted to know what it felt like? That's classic psychopathic behavior.

Well, I may have jumped the gun on this one. Just got back from 6 flags with my kids all day.

I did not see where he yelled these Reasons.

So my bad. This guy may not be a psychopath after all.

I guess I was a little ramped up after the 18yr.old kid and killing for fun Thread. So excuse my somewhat over eagerness when making this Thread

That being said the fact that he yelled any kind of reasons does not automatically negate the fact that he could be a Psychopath.

The fact is there are Psychopaths that kill for reasons and some who just kill for the thrill of killing and have no reason other than that.

I think you are watching too many Friday the 13ths and the Jason Voorhees blood thirsty axe killers. LOL

I can tell you there are people like Ed Kemper who was a psychopathic serial killer in the 70s and he murdered because he saw his abusive mother in each of his victims and on many occasions described that he did these killings for this reason .

There are also Corporate Psychopaths who inflict destruction on human beings for specific reasons .
And there have been instances of Murders and/or causing great harm to those around them in a Corporate setting and they are doing it for specific Reasons. Such as to get ahead for power and step all over anyone that gets in their way.

But I can give you numerous psychopathic serial killers and mass murderers who killed for reasons if you want me to.

A matter of fact your assertion does not make sense. And Im not trying to be mean, really.
As a lot of people make this mistake and think psychopaths are just aimless slashers or think that because they are void of emotion that they cannot have power thirsty goals and reasons for performing their madness.

i.e.Let me give you insight to this..So for example if a person who is psychopathic and has no conscious or empathy, going by your reasoning he cannot or would not kill another person based on any specific reason or based on the fact that he wants something or wants to gain from something ?

Of course he can and would and its ridicolous to suggest otherwise. A psychopath could very realistically do this. And it happens quite frequently.

Remember, even though Psychopaths seem like aliens they are human beings and have real needs, wants, and desires like the rest of us !!

Many violent bank robbers in prison have been formerly diagnosed as psychopaths and many have had no problem blowing the hell out of people and murdering them for a Reason, to get Money !

Dr. Robert Hare the inventor of the Psychopathy test had a certain number of traits that were inherently basic in all Psychopaths.

But every psychopath is not exactly alike. Some traits are more inherent and stronger in some psychopaths than others.

To categorically say that all Psychopaths kill for no reason at all is just plain inaccurate. I think if you go back and do some research and investigation you will see for yourself that this is just not the case in many instances.

And Claude, you also might stay away from those Halloween movies .There can be more to a person with psychopathy than Michael Myers

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Well, I may have jumped the gun on this one. Just got back from 6 flags with my kids all day.

I did not see where he yelled these Reasons.

So my bad. This guy may not be a psychopath after all.

I guess I was a little ramped up after the 18yr.old kid and killing for fun Thread. So excuse my somewhat over eagerness when making this Thread

WELL, I only heard the claim in ONE spot, outside of here. Who knows if it is true? I have heard SO MANY similar claims! I even heard of one person offering $10 MILLION for proof on one, and NOBODY came forward! In ANOTHER case, a group offered $10,000 for proof(BTW it involved supposedly PUBLIC hate speech at a national event). They had ******THOUSANDS******* of people looking for the proof, that would be EASY to get if true! NOBODY came forward! If they did, it would be WORLD WIDE news, because most of them had national and international audiences. One woman made some claims about a group of people, hurting her, and she helped one guy build a "career"! Her claims were PROVEN false. Of course there are plenty of more recent and proven cases where people told similar lies.

So YEAH, I wouldn't believe it unless I saw proof and corroboration. HECK, OBAMA said such things NEVER happen in civilized countries. OK, WHAT country is civilized? This has happened in Australia, UK, INDIA, GERMANY, FRANCE, US, DENMARK, NORWAY, HOLLAND, etc..... At least in most of them it happened within the last year. And that is only ones I have heard about. Can ANYONE name a country where it HASN'T happened? The WORLD outlawed guns in Germany! You know what happened NEXT? ******WWII*******! Maybe if they didn't ban guns, a hoodlum that tried to hurt people would have been shot. INSTEAD, they sent him to jail, he wrote a book, and it became a bible of sorts for a little gang that grew and took over the country. BTW Chicago, Detroit, and some other areas have strict gun laws, or did at the times. NOW, as to that church, I wonder if THEY allowed carrying guns. Maybe they didn't, and he picked it for that. It is otherwise odd that he stayed there for an hour.

Steve

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Claude Whitacre 9 years ago

Robert in bold, me not.

The fact is there are Psychopaths that kill for reasons and some who just kill for the thrill of killing and have no reason other than that.

Yes.

I think you are watching too many Friday the 13ths and the Jason Voorhees blood thirsty axe killers. LOL

No. In fact, I never understood why someone would watch those movies, or be frightened by them.

I can tell you there are people like Ed Kemper who was a psychopathic serial killer in the 70s and he murdered because he saw his abusive mother in each of his victims and on many occasions described that he did these killings for this reason .

Yes. You can be insane, and a psychopath. It's a very mixed bag of symptoms, loosely categorized as psychopathy. Plenty of psychopaths have other mental disorders, maybe even most psychopaths.

There are also Corporate Psychopaths who inflict destruction on human beings for specific reasons .

Yes. High functioning Pro-Social psychopaths. My people. You can also be a psychopath, and not be mean. Not inflict pain on anyone. You can just be far less affected by seeing pain inflicted on someone else. Or simply not consider the pain a specific choice may inflict on someone else. Again, there are levels.

And there have been instances of Murders and/or causing great harm to those around them in a Corporate setting and they are doing it for specific Reasons. Such as to get ahead for power and step all over anyone that gets in their way.

Yup.

But I can give you numerous psychopathic serial killers and mass murderers who killed for reasons if you want me to.

No need. I know it's true. The difference is, a psychopath needs a much weaker reason to kill. They are affected less by it. They don't see the victims as real people.

A matter of fact your assertion does not make sense. And Im not trying to be mean, really.
As a lot of people make this mistake and think psychopaths are just aimless slashers or think that because they are void of emotion that they cannot have power thirsty goals and reasons for performing their madness.

Yup. Completely agree.

i.e.Let me give you insight to this..So for example if a person who is psychopathic and has no conscious or empathy, going by your reasoning he cannot or would not kill another person based on any specific reason or based on the fact that he wants something or wants to gain from something ?

No, that's not what I meant. It's that killing someone would be an option, and thought about dispassionately. And this would have to be a pure psychopath. As we talked about before, there are levels of psychopathy.

Remember, even though Psychopaths seem like aliens they are human beings and have real needs, wants, and desires like the rest of us !!

Yes. But in a real sense, they are a different species. They process information in a different way. I speak from experience. It's almost like the thinking process is that of a third gender.

Many violent bank robbers in prison have been formerly diagnosed as psychopaths and many have had no problem blowing the hell out of people and murdering them for a Reason, to get Money !

Yup.

Dr. Robert Hare the inventor of the Psychopathy test had a certain number of traits that were inherently basic in all Psychopaths.

But every psychopath is not exactly alike. Some traits are more inherent and stronger in some psychopaths than others.
Yes, as we have agreed before.

To categorically say that all Psychopaths kill for no reason at all is just plain inaccurate. I think if you go back and do some research and investigation you will see for yourself that this is just not the case in many instances.

As we talked about before, I was discussing a pure psychopath, the worst of the worst. I should have made that clear. I said, "real psychopath" , when I should have said, "pure psychopath".

And Claude, you also might stay away from those Halloween movies .There can be more to a person with psychopathy than Michael Myers

Pure psychopaths are disassociated from the crime, and feel no connection to the victims.

Of course, there are types of psychopathy, levels of the disorder, and different sets of symptoms.

But in this case, I don't think the man was a psychopath. In his broken little mind, he was justified. And he was conflicted. Earlier, I was talking about pure psychopaths.....people who are monsters.

The best way to tell if a murderer is a psychopath, is to have them describe the event. Pure psychopaths are very matter of fact, dispassionate, and sound like they could be describing a walk in the park. There is much less justifying of the killing.

A typical pure psychopath may describe the reason he killed a man as, "He shouldn't have been there. Anyone could see I was not in a good mood".

This kid was yelling insane accusations, and almost didn't go through with it. A pure psychopath wouldn't be so emotionally involved, and wouldn't be so conflicted.

I wonder what kind of home this guy came from...the types of filth he was exposed to?

Again, in my previous post, I said, "real psychopath" , when I should have said, "pure psychopath".
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Synnuh

9 years ago

21, I guess may be a bit old. But even thinking about it, maybe 25? That's when science shows both male and female brains are progressing into adulthood.

The reason I say that the parents should be held to their child's actions are more based on the psycho that killed because he wanted to. And my ex's brother.

He's a terrorist just because he likes knowing people are afraid of him. His mom trained him to be that way, and taught him how to manipulate his way through life. He's one of the reasons I carry and conceal.

She should be thrown in prison for what she's done to him his entire life. He will find his way back to prison soon enough on his own. He's 23 years old now and she laughed about how bad she would torment him his entire life just because she was bored. Pretty sick.

As far as the 21 year old goes. It's really, really hard to say but yeah I'm leaning towards his parents being held responsible. He didn't just turn into a nutjob at 21.

His father gave him the gun he used, and should have been able to tell that the boy wasn't right. He should have seen the kid had some pretty serious beliefs that weren't exactly the norm.

Or paid enough attention somewhere in his life to let him know that's not how you act. Or maybe gotten the boy some help if he actually has a chemical imbalance somewhere. I dunno, I'm painting pictures now.

I don't know how you could really approach it, but I think something should be done about the parents who do raise these fine specimen. You never hear about them after the fact.

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AprilCT 9 years ago

Your ex's brother's mom sounds like there should have been a child welfare organization involved. Not that that is always any tremendous help, many fall through the cracks of the system, but it does help some children. I'm not a big fan of government intervention, but sometimes it's actually necessary, while hoping the right people do the right thing.

One thing to ponder, though, is why there is so much trouble today? People used to be more caring and have good, solid morals. Perhaps many in society have lost their way. I could write a book making my points for why, but we'd get this thread nuked in no time.
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writeaway

9 years ago

Insanity plea won't fly in this situation

Criminal insanity actually imposes a very high bar

You have to NOT know what you're doing is wrong

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by writeaway

You have to NOT know what you're doing is wrong

What if you simply reject the idea of right and wrong?

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writeaway

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

What if you simply reject the idea of right and wrong?

That would still imply a high enough cognitive function... you'll still fry.

Here's how it works Doctor's Case Spotlights Insanity Acquittals - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by writeaway

That would still imply a high enough cognitive function... you'll still fry.

Here's how it works Doctor's Case Spotlights Insanity Acquittals - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

Good answer. Better than what I would have come up with.

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Synnuh

9 years ago

I make it a point to keep it under wraps. I live in Florida though, jeans go out the door in February, and there's only so many ways you can hide a .380 before people know it's not a cell phone. I've had my parade rained on enough to know it's just better this way.

Cali, I explained it a bit more in post #5. I don't think this kid is a psycho, I think his life's experiences or perhaps a chemical imbalance are to blame.

I think the parents should be responsible for not seeing it earlier and getting him help. His dad was the reason he had the gun, so they were still involved in each other's lives enough for the father to see that probably wasn't a good idea.

That's my ideals talking. I know there aren't any easy solutions to stopping problems like this. And I hope I never have to personally deal with it.

There needs to be ways to stop it years before it happens, though. I think that comes down to the parenting.

There's no right or wrong answer, I'm open to listen -- psychology, especially studying the people that have actually lost their minds -- is pretty fascinating to me.

In this case, I'm basing my opinions off past experiences and a bigger picture. I know you can't fit everything into a nice black or white mold.

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hardraysnight

9 years ago

ignore them, they might go away

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

I can't see a judge giving him bail.

Does South Carolina have the death penalty?

If they do and If he's found guilty of killing 9 people in cold blood, I think he should get it.

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BigFrank Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If they do and If he's found guilty of killing 9 people in cold blood, I think he should get it.

Tomorrow.

Cheers. - Frank
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seasoned

9 years ago

ANOTHER thing! Are you IMPLYIN that they can simply become manic if they are depressed? If so, what would control it, and why would it be an ailment. NOPE, it is supposedly because of various chemicals in the brain, and they can change mood and mental energy substantially. That can override a person's tolerances, etc.... It can certainly throw any risk/reward type reasoning out the window.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Dylann Roof Was Planning Charleston Shooting 'For Six Months,' Roommate Says

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BigFrank

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Dylann Roof Was Planning Charleston Shooting 'For Six Months,' Roommate Says

Why isn't the roommate in jail?

Cheers. - Frank

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Why isn't the roommate in jail?

Cheers. - Frank

The story says the roommate says he was planning "something" for a while. Maybe the alleged killer wasn't specific enough in his rantings to his roommate. Or maybe...

If I was the roommate I'd cover my butt by saying the alleged killer didn't actually say something like ...

...I'm going to kill me a bunch of black people sooner or later etc.

I wonder if there are legal grounds to indict the roommate without a specific claim.

BTW...

Did you hear the story about how the alleged killer was caught by the actions of a good citizen?

Florist's tip led police to Charleston shooting suspect

Now that she's come forward I'm concerned for her safety.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If I was the roommate I'd cover my butt by saying the alleged killer didn't actually say something like ...

...I'm going to kill me a bunch of black people sooner or later etc.

I wonder if there are legal grounds to indict the roommate without a specific claim..

The roommate might just want to hurt the other guy, or get his name in the papers. But there IS the clear and present danger doctrine. If the guy has a history of saying such things, and doesn't carry them out, it doesn't carry much weight. Of course getting something dangerous with no other immediate goal adds weight to it. HERE, Dylann gt a gun. Still, had he told the police, what could they do? How could he prove it?

Steve

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BigFrank

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Did you hear the story about how the alleged killer was caught by the actions of a good citizen?

Now that she's come forward I'm concerned for her safety.

I'm sure that the same god that she credited for her actions will protect her.

Cheers. - Frank

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Mike Anthony 9 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I'm sure that the same god that she credited for her actions will protect her.

Cheers. - Frank

Apparently never heard of martyrs?
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seasoned

9 years ago

OK, this sounds like they are making stuff up!

FIRST OF ALL, about what he supposedly said....

Sylvia Johnson, a cousin of Pinckney, told MSNBC that a survivor told her the gunman reloaded five times during the attack despite pleas for him to stop.

"He just said, 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country,'" Johnson said.

Think what you will, but that doesn't have swearing or racial slurs, and isn't even belittling. So I wouldn't call it hate speech, or even angry! It is downright apologetic. STILL, DID he say it? I don't know, but this is what I heard earlier that he said. It seems like either he only said this, or it is clearly from ONE source!

And he reloaded FIVE times and apparently only killed 9 people? I didn't see any mention of injuries. To put this into perspective, even in NEW YORK with their NEW tight restrictions, that is over 20 shots!

OH, and about the gun. He got it as a gift. MAN, he must have just gotten it, and gone out and shot them up.

The article says his "social media profile suggests a fascination with white supremacy", whatever THAT means. USUALLY that means that they supposedly found things fitting with their BIASED perception of that. So even being in an area that HAD a history of a number of KKK members being there could fit that profile. SERIOUSLY, they convicted JEWEL because he had nails and lived with his mother!

And THEN, they go WAY out in left field, so it isn't even on the map! They say:

"In a Facebook profile apparently belonging to Roof, a portrait showed him wearing a jacket emblazoned with the flags of apartheid-era South Africa and of the former Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, both formerly ruled by white minorities. Many of his Facebook friends were black."

SOOOOOO many things DON'T fit! BTW Apartheid is a word(Germanic, but from africaans which is from dutch, another Germanic language) meaning separation. The dutch colony simply wanted to be separate. YEAH, they looked down on the black people, and had them with lower wages, but it wasn't the same as full slavery. They ALSO didn't look to kill blacks. STILL, you can see how they said SA was under apartheid, and the 2 others were once ruled by whites, so..... STILL, isn't he a bit young to have ever experienced that? WHY Africa? WHY ONLY Africa? And still, that is ALSO perhaps the only area that was kind to non muslim whites, so who says it has anything to do with blacks? ALSO, they kind of ADMIT they DON'T know if that is his page! And his friends are BLACK!?!?!?!? I mean if you are racist and spouting such things, why would most of your friends be black?

Oh well, I guess I should be happy they didn't say he lived in the south, has some beloved relative that was in the confederacy, had confederate memorabilia, or was involved with some supposed NAZI group.

BTW WHY do all these people seem to want to ADVERTISE all the groups they are in? I mean look at THIS, found in GOOGLE BTW, Charleston Shooting Suspect Dylann Roof Caught After Allegedly Killing 9 Blacks in Church - Freedom Outpost I DOUBT they would go to the trouble, much less THINK about it! But pictures are SOOO easy to fake today.

Steve

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

OK, this sounds like they are making stuff up!

FIRST OF ALL, about what he supposedly said....

'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country"

Think what you will, but that doesn't have swearing or racial slurs, and isn't even belittling. So I wouldn't call it hate speech, or even angry! It is downright apologetic.

The illogical ramblings of a straight up and out racist trying desperately against all logic to claim that indicting a bunch of people on the basis of their color for rapes they never committed isn't race hate speech. shucks according to the basement's resident racist its "not even angry" even though the man punctuates his hate speech with slaughtering nine souls - its just the sure words of an apology.

this isn't even an insult Steve. Its just a fact - your silly statements have no end.

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HeySal

9 years ago

The kid was on Suboxone. Why isn't anyone yelling about that? A drug that says right on the package that it can cause homicidal or suicidal tendencies. Then he shoots people. Go figure.

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BigFrank

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

The kid was on Suboxone. Why isn't anyone yelling about that? A drug that says right on the package that it can cause homicidal or suicidal tendencies. Then he shoots people. Go figure.

Every psychotropic drug I have ever taken said that on the bottle. Yet, somehow, every douche bag in my life is still sucking air.

Cheers. - Frank

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Kay King 9 years ago

Yelling about things solves nothing. There is no "aha moment" in this story.

If a gun is given as a gift or left where it can be accessed by others easily or sold through a private sale - the person who is the "REGISTERED OWNER" should be at least financially liable for crimes committed with that gun.

Of course that means the registration process must be extremely tight - probably much tighter for a private sale or gift as it is for a purchase background check.

We know through insurance and other issues that "liability" gets people's attention.

One drug doesn't explain this - parents don't explain this - a gun doesn't commit a crime any more than a penis is to blame for a rape.

We are not identifying and treating mentally ill people as we used to. We eliminated thousands of mental health facilities - and orphanages, too - under the guise of "compassion". Truth is - those facilities are expensive and they don't represent a particular voting bloc. The result is an increase of untreated mental problems and children killed by abuse in their own homes. No easy answers.

There are a lot of sickos out there - this is just another one of them. It's easy to look back after the crime and SEE clues that were missed. Not so easy to anticipate a crime before it happens.
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Doran Peck 9 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Every psychotropic drug I have ever taken said that on the bottle. Yet, somehow, every douche bag in my life is still sucking air.

Cheers. - Frank

Either your aim is really bad...or you are saying that you don't believe the drugs can cause what the label says they can cause...in which case its bizarre that you simultaneously believe the printed material that came with the drug that said it could help you, and you kept taking them.

If the label says it can cause a certain effect...then its perfectly reasonable to examine a possible relationship to a result of the same description.
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

According to CNN...

Homeboy racial killer just confessed.

Charleston church shooting: Suspect confesses, says he sought race war.

No doubt, he'll be hailed as a hero in at least one community.

Charleston shooting: Dylann Roof called for a race war - CNN.com

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BigFrank Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

No doubt, he'll be hailed as a hero in at least one community.

It won't be in his assuredly almost 100% black prison wing.

Cheers. - Frank
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- Claude Whitacre 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BigFrank
  
  It won't be in his assuredly almost 100% black prison wing.
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
  I'm pretty sure he would be in solitary, as a precaution.
  
  In fact, I just went to KFC for an order of Black Prison Wings. Charcoaled wings with a nail file inside every wing. Get them today.
  
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  BigFrank Banned 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  I'm pretty sure he would be in solitary, as a precaution.
  
  Yes - I knew that. I was just trying to be optimistic. :-)
  
  Cheers. - Frank
  
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  discrat 9 years ago
  
  So what now people want to encourage everyone to "pack heat" when attending Bible Study ?
  
  Geesh when does the madness stop ? Why don't we also include our kids' birthday parties as well. You all know the criminal element in that atmosphere and how it can be downright dangerous
  
  Colorado Springs vs. Charleston: The Church Massacre That Ended Differently - Katie Pavlich
  
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seasoned

9 years ago

I was thinking just yesterday about a way to bring reason into the debate, etc.... ALL politicians, from someone that merely speaks on a forum, to the president, leader, monarch, etc.... of any country, that speaks against gun ownership by peaceloving people, should be FORBIDDEN to have ANY bodyguards, police, or paid people around them, using guns, and should be FORBIDDEN to ever own a gun. If those people, that are NOT thus limited, are not happy with that, they should be allowed to simply take a paid day off with all benefits they would get if they had attended with a gun.

Of course, this means that, to even the US president, the secret service, or its equivalent, would cease to exist, should he be in that group. It ALSO means that they would be FORBIDDEN to be near any head of state that feels guns are ok!

If what I am saying sounds unfair, or extreme, you are simply not thinking right! I am asking them to NOT be hypocritical, and be a reasonable ambassador! If they EVER had a gun, EVEN as a threat by proxy(which is what the USSS IS), they would be a HYPOCRITE! If they deny a foreign dignitary the security they deserve and are OK with, they are NOT a reasonable ambassadior!

Steve

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alistair

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

HECK, OBAMA said such things NEVER happen in civilized countries. OK, WHAT country is civilized? This has happened in Australia, UK, INDIA, GERMANY, FRANCE, US, DENMARK, NORWAY, HOLLAND, etc..... At least in most of them it happened within the last year. And that is only ones I have heard about.

Steve

From what I understand Obama didn't mean it didn't happen in other countries but meant it isn't a regular occurrence like it is over there. It isn't here in the UK anyway. We've had 3 mass shootings in about the last 30 years, the last one being 5 years ago when 12 people were killed. I presume you've done your research and aren't just guessing when you suggest most civilised countries have had mass shootings in the last year?

Apparently in the UK we have some of the strictest gun laws in the world. I don't really know myself, like most people here I suppose because generally nobody owns a gun and have never been a part of life, unless they're a farmer or something. Interestingly though, of those 3 mass shootings each of the 3 killers had a gun license and therefore were allowed to keep guns.

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BigFrank Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by alistair

I presume you've done your research and aren't just guessing when you suggest most civilised countries have had mass shootings in the last year?

Funniest thing I have read all week. If by 'research' you mean pulling crap out of your butt - well, OK then. :-)

Cheers. - Frank
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Claude Whitacre

9 years ago

Originally Posted by alistair

From what I understand Obama didn't mean it didn't happen in other countries but meant it isn't a regular occurrence like it is over there. It isn't here in the UK anyway. We've had 3 mass shootings in about the last 30 years, the last one being 5 years ago when 12 people were killed. I presume you've done your research and aren't just guessing when you suggest most civilised countries have had mass shootings in the last year?

Your measured and intelligent response on this subject is not welcome here. In the US we solve our problems with more guns or more religion.....seasoned with some incoherent ranting. Get with the program.

If you want to engage with Seasoned, you need to learn how to yell and mumble at the same time. Otherwise, it just isn't fun to watch.

"Logic Is For Sissies"

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Your measured and intelligent response on this subject is not welcome here. In the US we solve our problems with more guns or more religion.....

I can see why the issue of guns is connected to this issue but can't really connect the dots on how or why religion is being brought into it - particularly since the victims of this awful event were religious and they were not the ones perpetuating the crime.

Perhaps you can make a rational connection as to why you are bringing religion into the discussion.

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Cali16 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I can see why the issue of guns is connected to this issue but can't really connect the dots on how or why religion is being brought into it

Claude was being sarcastic. He also mentioned solving things with "incoherent rants" (which should have been a clue to his sarcasm...).
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- Mike Anthony 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Cali16
  
  Claude was being sarcastic. He also mentioned solving things with "incoherent rants" (which should have been a clue to his sarcasm...).
  
  He can keep his sarcasm (although it was obviously more than that) off subjects that are not allowed your excuses for it not withstanding. Snide remarks and comments about religion are discussing materials not allowed by the rules.
  
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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I can see why the issue of guns is connected to this issue but can't really connect the dots on how or why religion is being brought into it - particularly since the victims of this awful event were religious and they were not the ones perpetuating the crime.

Perhaps you can make a rational connection as to why you are bringing religion into the discussion.

Well, Religion is brought in because, at least in christianity and judaism, they are supposed to be religions of PEACE. A lot of the atheists seem to have NO moral compass. Am I saying you need religion to have morals? NO! But I AM saying that it IS wrong for atheists, or other religions, to show pretenders, and say SEE!?!?!?!? So and so had a campaign and, whatever. There is a "church" right now that is mostly ONE family that is trying to create business for a law firm they run. I forget their name, but they are always in the news for protesting at funerals, etc... And the current pope is a real wolf in sheeps clothing. By one reconing, HE is the prophesied LAST POPE! If he does what he plans to, he WILL be the last pope changing things to a sect that is like a paracountry. And THAT is if he even has a successor. I mean catholicism isn't catholicism without its tenets, and they can't have a pope if they cease to be. It would be something else entirely.

As for guns? Did YOU know that guns are OUTLAWED in prison? Did you know that the possession of guns in US prisons is perhaps lower than ANYWHERE ELSE in the world? Yet they always amaze the prison system by even making things akin to guns that can EASILY kill a person. And THAT is under such tight confines! They may not be able to get any materials, may not have any tools, and may be tightly watched. YET, SOMEHOW, so many think it is SOOOOOO easy to control.

Steve

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

seasoned this shooting has no commentary to make on religion. Atheists can be racists and theists can be. don't further expand Claude's nonsense of trying to make social commentary on the US not being intelligent because allegedly they resort to more guns and more religion.

Its entirely out of place since the nine killed were all religious and did not perpetuate the crime.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

seasoned this shooting has no commentary to make on religion. Atheists can be racists and theists can be. don't further expand Claude's nonsense of trying to make social commentary on the US not being intelligent because allegedly they resort to more guns and more religion.

Its entirely out of place since the nine killed were all religious and did not perpetuate the crime.

HUH? Did I say ANYTHING against RELIGION? Did I say ANYTHING against those people? HECK, I basically went to their church, Mother Emanuel AME church last sunday! I heard the services, and the worship. Outside of the style and cadence of the pastor, it might as well have been a white church. That is NOT an insult, I'm simply saying that white people would be OK with going to that church that was mostly black people, and a number of white people WERE there. AGAIN, NOTHING racist, it is simply that a LOT of black churches have a VERY different type of worship, etc... that is not what many whites would like.

And I LOVE how the pastor took PRIDE in them not being ones to riot or do anything of the sort. He stated that there was mutual respect between the congregation and the politicians and "LEOs", and that it paid off. The culprit was captured, etc.... If there was a mention of race from him, I simply didn't notice, he was just so reasonable.

I also never said ANYTHING good about the shooter. He LOOKS like a troublemaker, and I am sure he did it.

I also said NOTHING about the US being bad because of religion and guns.

Steve

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by alistair

From what I understand Obama didn't mean it didn't happen in other countries but meant it isn't a regular occurrence like it is over there. It isn't here in the UK anyway. We've had 3 mass shootings in about the last 30 years, the last one being 5 years ago when 12 people were killed. I presume you've done your research and aren't just guessing when you suggest most civilised countries have had mass shootings in the last year?

Actually, they HAVE, at least within the last 2. But WHO CARES? If someone can shoot ONE shot with a gun holding 9+, they can easily shoot 9.

Apparently in the UK we have some of the strictest gun laws in the world. I don't really know myself, like most people here I suppose because generally nobody owns a gun and have never been a part of life, unless they're a farmer or something. Interestingly though, of those 3 mass shootings each of the 3 killers had a gun license and therefore were allowed to keep guns.

Well, in the US some of the people were not even allowed to have, and DIDN'T have, gun licenses. And many were in places where it was illegal to have guns. Face it, the cat is out of the bag and it had kittens, and you know how cats can be. So HOW do you stop guns?[/quote]

At one point tons of places had guns, and I believe the UK had guns, and the police weren't even armed with guns. In the US, some police didn't even have guns in the early 20th century! So WHY NOW?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_po...United_Kingdom

And I promised myself I would bring this up with such an argument! Look at all that was done in the TOV, etc.... That INCLUDES disarmament! It was used to encourage, and facilitate WWII! IMAGINE THIS! When hitler started his first coup, it had less than SEVEN members! Guns could aid it no more than they did, but they could have stopped it.

Steve

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Mike Anthony

9 years ago

Originally Posted by alistair

Apparently in the UK we have some of the strictest gun laws in the world. I don't really know myself, like most people here I suppose because generally nobody owns a gun and have never been a part of life, unless they're a farmer or something. Interestingly though, of those 3 mass shootings each of the 3 killers had a gun license and therefore were allowed to keep guns.

Yeah I am warming to the idea but I tend to believe we would not see the same effect. We have a vastly greater amount of miles to cover in order to monitor our borders and a much larger pay off for smugglers getting past them will illegal substances .

That why i have seen the merit of not having criminals alone armed but the reality is that in these cases it rarely is connected to an illegal gun

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HeySal

9 years ago

I just found that this guy wasn't being "given" the drug he was on. No prescription. So not only was he a racist (a real one this time), he was purposefully high enough to start shooting. He needs to be off the planet.

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seasoned

9 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I just found that this guy wasn't being "given" the drug he was on. No prescription. So not only was he a racist (a real one this time), he was purposefully high enough to start shooting. He needs to be off the planet.

Which drug? His appearance DOES have that kind of psychopathic appearance. If I had met him earlier, I would have avoided him. THIS one is hard to explain, but many here might know what I am talking about.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Which drug? His appearance DOES have that kind of psychopathic appearance. If I had met him earlier, I would have avoided him. THIS one is hard to explain, but many here might know what I am talking about.

Steve

Stop lying.

If you had met him it would have been 99 bottles of beer on the wall for hours on end.

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BigFrank Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Stop lying. If you had met him it would have been 99 bottles of beer on the wall for hours on end.

And matching tattoos!

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seasoned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Stop lying.

If you had met him it would have been 99 bottles of beer on the wall for hours on end.

OK, you are lying BIG TIME! MANY think I am practically a teetotaler, since I RARELY ingest alcohol! I can't even remember the last time I did. I probably had about 6 beers in the past 15 years! Maybe 7 in the past 20! I don't even know if I drank even ONE before I was 18. I had a sip around 6yo, and HATED it! To be honest, before I was 18, I may have had 3 glasses of creme de menthe. I had an "uncle" that would cook us a meal every now and then, and he always had the stuff. But that is pretty much it. And the number of beers, or alcohol beverages I bought for home, or to drink alone? ZERO!

NOW, as to being with that guy? I have seen a few that seemed like that, and I have stayed away from all of them!

OH, and for frank? The number of piercings, or tattoos I have? ZERO!

Steve
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TLTheLiberator

9 years ago

I believe his manifesto has been found.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/us...ting.html?_r=0

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Zodiax

9 years ago

Come on,

We ALL have been on the verge of snapping before.

Sometimes people actually go through with it though.

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