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Spam posts often wait a while before deletion - but a request for help from a Warrior who has been contributing here since 2004 is instantly deleted?

I know the rules - but that was the quickest I've seen ANY thread removed.

Hopefully enough saw the thread that BigMike's covered for now....
  • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
    Banned
    Missed that one Kay.
    Probably drowned out by the numerous threads being bumped.
    Shame they can't delete a few of those.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
    I had one recently that was intended to spur some creativity. It got closed within the hour as self promotion.

    I know what promotion is. I have a degree and decades of experience in it. This was no promotion.

    I don't think the mods have any clue or frankly care about how to nurture a community.

    Too bad. I am growing less fond of this place by the day.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Jack Gordon View Post

      I had one recently that was intended to spur some creativity. It got closed within the hour as self promotion.

      I know what promotion is. I have a degree and decades of experience in it. This was no promotion.

      I don't think the mods have any clue or frankly care about how to nurture a community.

      Too bad. I am growing less fond of this place by the day.
      True, canning a thread about Martian anomalies, based on red tape, was a bad decision.

      Especially since it was a draw card for the Off Topic, had about 57k of visitors and got about 1000 every time l posted!

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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Jack Gordon View Post

      I had one recently that was intended to spur some creativity. It got closed within the hour as self promotion.

      I know what promotion is. I have a degree and decades of experience in it. This was no promotion.

      I don't think the mods have any clue or frankly care about how to nurture a community.

      Too bad. I am growing less fond of this place by the day.
      You're absolutely right - there is no community here now. Alexa might or might not have been Alexa, and she might not have been a million dollar IMer - but she was here forever as Alexa and talked sense. Whatever her real identity was, she kept the same one for a decade here and we liked her. I'm presuming she's not the only faux identity here. At least she had some intellect - yet she's banned.

      Freelance is, and always has been, a human factory farm. It's a large corporation. They saw a profitable entity, thought it would profit them, while, the whole time missing the point of what made this place profitable. The first thing they did when they bought this is go for the low end cheap meat instead of taking a few more funds and finding quality staff within that understood the dynamics here and could have kept it rolling. We've always had spammers and newbies, yet the community hung together. At the rate this forum community is deteriorating into DP, they'll be lucky if they can turn it for only a small loss before it is worthless to them.
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      Sal
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Alexa might or might not have been Alexa,
        Didn't matter then - doesn't matter now. Two people were loud in condemning her - neither of them is someone I'd follow...so...

        I wasn't surprised at the deletion - only at the speed.
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        Just wait a second – so what you're telling me is that my chance of surviving all this is directly linked to the common sense of others? You’re kidding, right?
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      • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Freelance is, and always has been, a human factory farm. It's a large corporation. They saw a profitable entity, thought it would profit them, while, the whole time missing the point of what made this place profitable. The first thing they did when they bought this is go for the low end cheap meat instead of taking a few more funds and finding quality staff within that understood the dynamics here and could have kept it rolling. We've always had spammers and newbies, yet the community hung together. At the rate this forum community is deteriorating into DP, they'll be lucky if they can turn it for only a small loss before it is worthless to them.
        I don't know if it is more or less profitable than it was under old ownership, but I can sure say that it is less beneficial, less useful, less worthy of my interest and substantially less enjoyable to me than it was before.

        I used to be too diplomatic to raise or participate in conversations like this, fearing that I would offend the ownership while they were still feeling their way around for the best way to run things.

        I am not less diplomatic now, but I do care a lot less about their feelings than I used to. At this point, they have clearly made their choices about how they want to run things and who they want to encourage participation from.

        Short of being banned I won't stop coming here imminently. But more often than not I don't even find any conversations worth entering and leave disappointed. That is not sustainable over a long time.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by Jack Gordon View Post

          I don't know if it is more or less profitable than it was under old ownership, but I can sure say that it is less beneficial, less useful, less worthy of my interest and substantially less enjoyable to me than it was before.

          I used to be too diplomatic to raise or participate in conversations like this, fearing that I would offend the ownership while they were still feeling their way around for the best way to run things.

          I am not less diplomatic now, but I do care a lot less about their feelings than I used to. At this point, they have clearly made their choices about how they want to run things and who they want to encourage participation from.

          Short of being banned I won't stop coming here imminently. But more often than not I don't even find any conversations worth entering and leave disappointed. That is not sustainable over a long time.
          Ditto -

          It's like watching a friend wither away from some terminal disease.
          There is always hope, but even that eventually fades.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Jack Gordon View Post

      I don't think the mods have any clue or frankly care about how to nurture a community.
      I don't blame the mods. When Freelancer decided to move from a volunteer moderation system - in which mods were selected from within the active membership - to a salaried, externally-sourced moderation set-up, the dynamic was inevitably altered.

      As professional as they might be, salaried employees can't help but have a different mindset and motivation to long-serving volunteers who are emotionally invested in the community. Plus employees have to abide by rules laid down by the management and usually have limited scope to act on their own initiative.

      The problem is that, outside of the obvious spam deletion, moderation - especially of a place the size of the WF - is largely a thankless task (as we've seen in this thread). So much so that many of the old mods only stayed on and took the criticism and abuse they did out of loyalty to the forum and friendship with the owner. In turn, the previous owner trusted and supported those mods by giving them quite a bit of freedom to act. It's almost impossible to get that degree of balance and flexibility with salaried employees, however good they may be.

      In time and with experience, the mods will get more of a feel for the dynamics of the community and perhaps will be allowed more latitude. But it will never be the same.


      Frank
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      • I've been slashed more times than a teen in a Wes Craven movie.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

        In time and with experience, the mods will get more of a feel for the dynamics of the community and perhaps will be allowed more latitude. But it will never be the same.
        Frank, I get what you're saying regarding the "paid employee" versus the "emotionally invested volunteer" - and totally agree with that.

        But regarding time and experience to "get more of a feel"...they've had well over a year. I don't think they have a clue yet regarding the dynamics of the community. However, that may be due at least in part to the fact that the current community doesn't remotely resemble the strengths of the WF community of the past.

        @Big MIKE - so sorry to hear how the situation in Greece is impacting you. And so relieved to know you're not ill - that was my first thought when I read Kay's initial post. Please keep us posted and feel free to send a pm if you need more help.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          But regarding time and experience to "get more of a feel"...they've had well over a year. I don't think they have a clue yet regarding the dynamics of the community. However, that may be due at least in part to the fact that the current community doesn't remotely resemble the strengths of the WF community of the past.
          Cheryl, that's a very good point regarding the current community. With the huge influx of new members since the takeover, and the departure or greatly reduced involvement of much of the old guard, it must be difficult for the moderators to pick up on any sense of community that might remain. And we don't know what restrictions or instructions those mods are having to work under. But yes, the mods who've been in place for over a year should be getting a handle on the group dynamics by now.

          On that point, if there are any OT mods reading this, you should know that there's a tradition in the basement to ignore or at least play around with some of the sacred tenets of forum procedure. I'm thinking of a thread that was deleted recently presumably because the OP herself (yes, it was you, Kay) had second thoughts and scrubbed out the first post. Nevertheless, the OT regulars can take a thread which is essentially about nothing and make it run for pages. In fact similar threads have gone on to attain legendary status down here. We're funny (sad) like that.

          And after all, Seinfeld made a career out of doing it.

          @Big MIKE - so sorry to hear how the situation in Greece is impacting you. And so relieved to know you're not ill - that was my first thought when I read Kay's initial post. Please keep us posted and feel free to send a pm if you need more help.
          Ditto.


          Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author roblawrence
            People keep saying the "old guard" is leaving here on the Warrior Forum. But where are they going? I don't see it. This forum seems as active as ever and the people here extremely helpful. If people choose to move on, then that's their choice. It will give some of the newer people a voice of their own.
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            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
              Banned
              Originally Posted by roblawrence View Post

              People keep saying the "old guard" is leaving here on the Warrior Forum. But where are they going? I don't see it. This forum seems as active as ever and the people here extremely helpful. If people choose to move on, then that's their choice. It will give some of the newer people a voice of their own.
              Well, if you don't notice whom has left for greener pastures then I would hazard a guess that they never left very much of an impression on you in the first place. :-)

              Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Big Mike's was asking for help? Is he sick - what's on with this?
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    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
    Banned
    At least my reports on religious posts are being deleted almost instantly. Maybe some of the mods are atheists. :-)

    Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I was asking to borrow $150 from members here to meet my August expenses, which I will repay as soon as possible. I did receive enough from Kay and Thomas to cover what I needed and will use the rest to run a WSO to start generating some income to repay them and then cover my ongoing expenses.
      Maybe consider Bitcoin as a backup plan, even If it only covers 2-3 months worth of expenses it's better than nothing.

      BTW, namecheap.com accepts Bitcoin for domains & hosting.
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      • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
        So I am assuming I am on a sunken ship.

        The more I come here each day, the more it feels like I am entering during a shift.

        For example, Google seems to have been trending on the anti-internet marketing side.

        If you do a search for make money online, you will see most of the stuff ranking top in the search engines are authority sites that don't specifically cater to the subject of make money online. John chow used to be ranked highly for that term, but now he isn't.

        Most people are wisening up to Internet Marketing, and it is becoming increasingly hard to do the things to sell affiliate programs. I heard that the feds are even cracking down on some of these guys.

        Just look at this thread:

        https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...g-nothing.html

        People are calling a long-time WF member a newb. I know gjabaz has done some wonderful things, yet they jump down his throat like he is some amatuer.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          How is that relevant to this thread? "Internet marketing" is any business you have online.

          The term

          "make money online"

          without quotes yields 534,000,000 results

          with quotes yields 28,000,000 results

          Think that might be a high competition niche? Think you might have to put in a lot of work/time/money to get to the top of that niche?

          If you are on a sinking ship you may be alone on the boat.


          People are calling a long-time WF member a newb.
          Those posts were over a month ago. Newbies trying to act "smart" - and looking stupid. Nothing new there.
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          Just wait a second – so what you're telling me is that my chance of surviving all this is directly linked to the common sense of others? You’re kidding, right?
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

          For example, Google seems to have been trending on the anti-internet marketing side.
          Funny you would even attempt to say that considering I doubt you'll find any niche that's not being monetized.
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  • Profile picture of the author alistair
    So basically the mods did the right thing then. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    Wow, what a potent thread. I tend to agree with most of what has been said. While I have been here for 5 years, I know many have been here much longer. It is sad when members of the old guard leave and it has been like a revolving door since the change of ownership. I don't post as often here but I still do visit most days.
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    Visit my site for more info

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  • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
    Huge thanks to Kay and Thomas for lending a hand to someone who over the years has gone above and beyond in helping other members here, most notably the fundraiser he spearheaded for Michael Tracey. How ironic Mike's blog post regarding community here seems in retrospect.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/bi...el-tracey.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    This thread is ridiculous.

    The mods had every right to delete any thread asking for money as fast as they can. BigMike could and should have just Pmed people who he knows (sorry to hear about whats going on in greece as I know some great programmers over there - real bummer).

    Some people here are constantly complaining for special privilege to be restored. Would any of the people here be complaining if it was someone they didn't count as friend? nope.

    Internet has far too many scammers to allow solicitation of donations on open forums. Good call by the mods.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      This thread is ridiculous.

      The mods had every right to delete any thread asking for money as fast as they can. BigMike could and should have just Pmed people who he knows (sorry to hear about whats going on in greece as I know some great programmers over there - real bummer).

      Some people here are constantly complaining for special privilege to be restored. Would any of the people here be complaining if it was someone they didn't count as friend? nope.

      Internet has far too many scammers to allow solicitation of donations on open forums. Good call by the mods.
      Do you need a loan?
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    • Profile picture of the author rhondaklewis
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      This thread is ridiculous.

      The mods had every right to delete any thread asking for money as fast as they can. BigMike could and should have just Pmed people who he knows (sorry to hear about whats going on in greece as I know some great programmers over there - real bummer).

      Some people here are constantly complaining for special privilege to be restored. Would any of the people here be complaining if it was someone they didn't count as friend? nope.

      Internet has far too many scammers to allow solicitation of donations on open forums. Good call by the mods.
      But We know BigMike isn't a scammer. I would have left his thread stay up because I have been here for awhile and have gotten to know BigMike. AS far as special privileges I think people who have contributed as much as BigMike should be given some cosideration.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by rhondaklewis View Post

        But We know BigMike isn't a scammer. I would have left his thread stay up because I have been here for awhile and have gotten to know BigMike. AS far as special privileges I think people who have contributed as much as BigMike should be given some cosideration.
        Forums cant be run like that. FL cannot identify any poster is who he said he is. Accounts can be hacked etc. Plus it just sets a bad precedent people seeing that allowed on open forums. People take their cue from what they see allowed (for any reason).

        Seems the mod handled this quite fine to me. I am glad BigMIke got help. It is maddening to have money frozen in any way I bet. still my bet is the help he got was from those he knows so its better off not on open forums.

        As far as consideration for contributors that probably should be limited to perks. For example if BigMike could send multiple PMs easily he probably wouldn't have bothered with open forums. Still BigMike has confirmed that they even offered to reinstate the thread so I see no harm and no foul anywhere in sight.

        Mod was just doing his job and the rule is a legit one. Exceptions if there are going to be any should be run through mods first I would think
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Big Mike - glad your problem wasn't health related. I can pretty well say that the days of the WF fundraisers are over.

    While you're not in life threatening shape, it's still a scary situation. People need to pay attention to what's happening, though, because it can happen here, too.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I would think that a company spending the kind of cash they did in this forum, might have wanted to hire a sociologist to read this thing and make suggestions on moderation. Corps with smart leaders that taken over new companies do that so they don't get massive turn over due to new "governance". If you look at the way the longer term members relate to others in comparison with new ones, you can pick up the ethos of the place. Any smart corporate leader knows that if you change the ethos, you'll be changing the whole internal structure and in an extremely successful forum the last thing you want to do is destroy the existing social structure. Forums aren't corporate cafeterias -- they are......um...........how do I put this delicately.............SOCIAL MEDIA.
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      I want to start a fundraiser to donate cheesecake to Claude.

      I don't know if the Mods would approve though.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

        I want to start a fundraiser to donate cheesecake to Claude.

        I don't know if the Mods would approve though.
        Kurt already sends him cheescake every week. At least that's what he calls it.
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        Marriage, For The Best Arguments

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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Kurt already sends him cheescake every week. At least that's what he calls it.
          Where I come from we call it crotch-cheese. This is sometimes referred to as fumunda cheese, because it comes fumunda your testes.

          Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

            Where I come from we call it crotch-cheese. This is sometimes referred to as fumunda cheese, because it comes fumunda your testes.

            Cheers. - Frank
            Gives it that nutty flavour Claude loves.
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            Marriage, For The Best Arguments

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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

              I want to start a fundraiser to donate cheesecake to Claude.

              I don't know if the Mods would approve though.
              No, maybe you should go into standup comedy, pretty funny!

              And to be honest he loves dunuts?

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  • Profile picture of the author Jessica shu
    spam post may not make the Website administrator happy, but i believe that there are still much information for learn if they post some interesting news but not ads, do you think so?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
    Excellent post, Mike. I think it really captures the frustrations so many of us are feeling lately.

    And I am happy for the way things turned out in this case. You have my best wishes for getting full control of your financial situation back to normal just as soon as humanly possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I have my own thoughts about this forum and could probably write a whole book about them, but I won't bore you with those details here. Suffice to say, what I used to get from this forum I now get from communities in private, paid forums as well as a couple of masterminds that I meet with frequently.

    I think this forum has changed quite a bit from what it used to be, but from my vantage point it's not a good thing or a bad thing, it's just different. Some people have chosen to move on because of those changes while others have stayed and have chosen to thrive. It's very much an individual decision.

    It's owned by a large corporation now that has much different ideas and goals than the previous owner had. The moderators have to follow very specific policies and procedures and in many ways it pigeon-holes them into a very specific way of moderating. I think they are doing a great job despite all the limitations that have been placed on them. There are lots of things that moderators were able to do before because Allen gave them a lot of leeway, whereas in the new corporate-run paradigm, that's not the case.

    As a former moderator I have my own thoughts about that. It has it's own strengths and weaknesses. It's a new and different paradigm now and I think it's a lot better today than it was even 6 months ago.

    I also want to state for the record that if this happens to you again BigMike, you have my permission to contact me directly for assistance. You've helped me in the past more than once in different ways and would be glad to help.

    Everyone have a wonderful day.

    RoD
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