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Jared pleads guilty

by joe golfer
96 replies
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Jared Fogel to Plead Guilty to Kid Porn - The Daily Beast


EDIT: Here are "live" updates to today's court proceedings (08-19-15):

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/c...iana/31929227/
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    Well now we won't have to worry that his career was knocked off track by run amok social media or just some plain old text messages from him describing his awesome time with a 16-year old hooker.

    The charges come after federal agents raided Fogle’s Zionsville home in early July. FBI sources confirmed to FOX59 state and federal investigators were serving warrants at his home in connection with a child pornography investigation. Several computers and DVDs were seized from Fogle’s home.

    Earlier this year, Russell Taylor, the former director of the Jared Foundation started by Fogle, was arrested in a child pornography case. He was accused of possessing and producing child pornography. Investigators said a search of Taylor’s home turned up more than 500 videos with images of child pornography. In May, Taylor unsuccessfully tried to kill himself while in jail.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Well now we won't have to worry that his career was knocked off track by run amok social media or just some plain old text messages from him describing his awesome time with a 16-year old hooker.
      We still do not know that for sure. Like Duke Lacrosse everyone thought they were guilty as sin

      If their is a Plea ( we will not know for sure until it happens) it will be tomorrow.


      As it stands this is all speculation.

      Lets wait for tomorrow to see if he actually Pleas and see what the specifics of the evidence is.

      Lets let Due Process work as I think that is the smartest way to approach.

      Until then this is all based on allegations
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        It's a strange case - he has not been arrested and no charges have been filed. Police have told the media Fogel "is cooperating fully with the investigation".

        Will be interesting to see what happens with this one.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Police have told the media Fogel "is cooperating fully with the investigation".
          Yep, it seems he has cooperated fully by admitting he is guilty.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Police have told the media Fogel "is cooperating fully with the investigation".
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Yep, it seems he has cooperated fully by admitting he is guilty.
            .... and did he really have a choice when the FBI has a search warrant for his home and electronics? I doubt that he handed them the keys without the warrants.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              .... and did he really have a choice when the FBI has a search warrant for his home and electronics? I doubt that he handed them the keys without the warrants.
              No he didn't if there was evidence, but some like to defend certain celebrities no matter what the evidence. Bill Cosby is an example.
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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                No he didn't if there was evidence, but some like to defend certain celebrities no matter what the evidence. Bill Cosby is an example.
                Tim its like comparing Apples to Oranges, There is overwhelming evidence over decades of time from unrelated people telling similar stories about Cosby.

                Whereas, there is limited information on this Jared character and its only been in the last few months.

                You have different sources corroborating similar testimonials over and over again with Cosby

                But not with Fogle at all.

                As far as myself ?? Im not defending this guy in any way. I just think we need to wait until we get the complete picture before we rush to judgement.

                If he does indeed make a Plea tomorrow and admit guilt I say we need to highly consider locking him up for a few decades And get this guy off the street
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                • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post


                  If he does indeed make a Plea tomorrow and admit guilt I say we need to highly consider locking him up for a few decades And get this guy off the street
                  Except, to my understanding at least, that's the catch22 of a plea deal - the person has to "admit guilt" in order to make the plea... even if they're not guilty. But if they reject it and choose to fight for their innocence, they can end up taking a huge risk with a jury - and juries certainly aren't infallible.

                  If the jury finds the person guilty the sentence will likely be substantially worse than what's being offered in the plea deal.

                  IMO, this is one of the biggest flaws in our legal system. Maybe if I'd gone to law school, which I briefly considered at one point (shudder!!!!!) it would make sense...
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                  Tim its like comparing Apples to Oranges, There is overwhelming evidence over decades of time from unrelated people telling similar stories about Cosby.

                  Whereas, there is limited information on this Jared character and its only been in the last few months.

                  You have different sources corroborating similar testimonials over and over again with Cosby

                  But not with Fogle at all.
                  Ughhh ... that's because there has been no media frenzy. I never even heard of Jared the perve until this thread. He hasn't been splashed all over the media as so alleged in this thread. The media reports news. Some people in this thread think anything reported is a "media frenzy." Personally, I'm glad we have journalists who report the news rather than living in a country where much news is stifled and filtered by the government. I can turn the news off or choose not to read it when it becomes repetitive with so many news organizations competing for headlines.

                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                  As far as myself ?? Im not defending this guy in any way. I just think we need to wait until we get the complete picture before we rush to judgement.
                  Then why did you start the first thread on Jared? Obviously you wanted to discuss the guy and the charges and this being a forum, I'm sure you were aware that there would be differing opinions.

                  Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                  If he does indeed make a Plea tomorrow and admit guilt I say we need to highly consider locking him up for a few decades And get this guy off the street
                  As you can see in this thread, for some, even him admitting guilt will not convince them that this character is a sexual predator with a proclivity towards underage teenage and pre-teen girls. The conspiracy theories are already being offered before he makes his plea. The FBI is crooked, the legal system is crooked, the cops are all crooked, innocent people plead guilty all the time because of manufactured evidence, and on and on and on.

                  In actuality, the legal system works to protect the public from criminals and put them away more times than not. The corrupt officials are the exception rather than the rule. Who knows what this guy would have to do to convince people that he is a pedophile.

                  All of the news organizations have confirmed that the source of the plea deal arrangement is two cops ... Fox 59, CNN, Business Insider, etc. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... but it's a fake plea deal. Poor maligned Jared just didn't know what to do so he's going to plead guilty so he doesn't have to face a jury ... blah blah blah.

                  He's a multi-millionaire. He can afford very good counsel. He wouldn't cop a plea to something he is innocent of. The legal system has always favored the rich over the poor, who can't afford good legal counsel. Just look at that guy who slaughtered 4 people while drunk driving and got off with a sentence to some resort rehab. It was called something like the spoiled rotten kid defense. Unbelievable, but true.

                  It more likely that Jared is getting a sweetheart deal that is far less than what he would get if he faced a jury. Rich people get off a lot easier in the legal system than poor people. Even if convicted, they are sent to "special" prisons that are a lot easier to take than prisons for the ordinary masses of criminals who don't have millions.

                  And then there's Cosby ... there are plenty people around (even in this thread) who believe that all of those women are just liars. Cosby is like the Sta Puff Marshamallow Man. He couldn't be a sexual predator who drugs women and then has sex with them without their consent.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
                    Corrupt or not, the legal system is far more fair than the opinionated verdicts of others.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape arguing about guilt or innocence of someone they don't know - and arguing facts they don't have. You can claim he's been charged with crimes - but the lawyers and police say otherwise. The Indianapolis media (the ONE reporting a "plea deal") claims charges will be filed AFTER the deal is reached.

                      Several media - including USAToday - have interesting little blurbs in their most recent stories....

                      Corrections & clarifications: An earlier version of this story mischaracterized the charges in a case connected to Jared Fogle.
                      So - they sensationalized the hell out of it - made claims that weren't based on fact - and they can say "oops" and move on to the next 'case'.
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                      • Profile picture of the author discrat
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape arguing about guilt or innocence of someone they don't know - and arguing facts they don't have.
                        That the million dollar question. Why ? Their must be some agenda or something in the past that draws them to this and draws them to be so hasty towards someone they do not even know and facts they dont have.

                        It is just flat out weird and creepy

                        I simply just want the facts to come out before someone is punished. Whether that is Jared, Charlie Manson, Ted Bundy, Bill Clinton, George Bush or who ever.

                        I don't give a damn.

                        The reason why I feel so strong about this is because I want the System to work for everyone including myself if I ever need it some day or my daughters or mother or father

                        I have zero biased towards this Jared guy. I could care less about him and his career.
                        It has nothing to do with defending celebrities or what not.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                          That the million dollar question. Why ? Their must be some agenda or something in the past that draws them to this and draws them to be so hasty towards someone they do not even know and facts they dont have.
                          Oh, I didn't know that you personally knew Jared. You must ... otherwise you wouldn't have opened up a thread about someone you don't personally know.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        So - they sensationalized the hell out of it - made claims that weren't based on fact - and they can say "oops" and move on to the next 'case'.

                        Ooooops. Sure they did.

                        INDIANAPOLIS -- Former Subway restaurant pitchman Jared Fogle is set to plead guilty Wednesday morning to having had sex with minors and distributing and receiving child pornography, according to a plea agreement released by the U.S. Attorney of the Southern District of Indiana.

                        Prosecutors have agreed to seek a sentence no greater than 12½ years. Fogle agreed not to seek a sentence of less than five years. In federal cases, prisoners must serve at least 85% of sentences.
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                  • Profile picture of the author discrat
                    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                    Personally, I'm glad we have journalists who report the news rather than living in a country where much news is stifled and filtered by the government. I can turn the news off or choose not to read it when it becomes repetitive with so many news organizations competing for headlines.
                    .
                    Yeah ,personally Im glad we live in a Country with a legal system that affords people their day in Court and the right to have Due Process in front of a judge regardless of what other people report in the media or wherever else.

                    I also enjoy living in a Country where you are presumed to be innocence until proven Guilty.

                    Thank God for all this. ISIS would already executed Jared by now
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                      Yeah ,personally Im glad we live in a Country with a legal system that affords people their day in Court and the right to have Due Process in front of a judge regardless of what other people report in the media or wherever else.

                      I also enjoy living in a Country where you are presumed to be innocence until proven Guilty.

                      Thank God for all this. ISIS would already executed Jared by now
                      Hmmm ... if you're presumed innocent until found guilty, why do poor people who can't afford good lawyers spend sometimes years in jail before they are actually found guilty? Isn't that putting the cart before the horse?
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        We still do not know that for sure. Like Duke Lacrosse everyone thought they were guilty as sin

        If their is a Plea ( we will not know for sure until it happens) it will be tomorrow.

        As it stands this is all speculation.

        Lets wait for tomorrow to see if he actually Pleas and see what the specifics of the evidence is.

        Lets let Due Process work as I think that is the smartest way to approach.

        Until then this is all based on allegations
        It's fairly obvious that law enforcement has issued a statement to all press regarding the plea deal they have arranged and he has agreed to.

        Former Subway pitchman Jared Fogle is expected to plead guilty to charges related to possession of child pornography, two law enforcement officials told CNN on Tuesday.
        FOX59 has confirmed Jared Fogle, the former Subway spokesman, is expected to plead guilty to possession of child pornography charges.

        Sources say Fogle will accept a plea deal Wednesday. The U.S. Attorney's Office will hold a press conference tomorrow afternoon to discuss the deal and charges against Fogle.
        You won't get to see the evidence. There will be no real trial. That's what a plea deal is. The charges are made based on the evidence they gathered, and he pleas guilty to get less time. He has agreed to it. But go ahead and support your pedophile. That's commendable. Likening this to the Duke case is flawed. The Duke guys never pled guilty to anything.

        @ Kay ... the FBI does not normally inform the public about it's cases. This is a federal case and quite possibly it was sealed. There would be no plea deal if there were no charges.

        The U.S. Attorney's Office will hold a press conference Wednesday afternoon.

        Six weeks after the FBI raided Jared Fogle's home as part of a child pornography investigation, the former Subway spokesperson is expected to plead guilty to federal charges. A press conference is scheduled for Wednesday afternoon, according to Fox 59 in Indianapolis, when the U.S. Attorney's Office will discuss the deal and charges against Fogle. It is possible that the plea deal includes pleading guilty to conspiracy charges.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          And of course "expected" always means a done deal

          Of course it doesn't. Thats ridiculous

          Like I said I reserve judgement until he actually makes a Plea.

          Every American citizen at least deserves that chance.

          I know I would, wouldn't you?

          This is not supporting a pedophile because EVERYTHING you stand so firmly on is based on Speculation and Allegation.

          And this was from the very gitgo of this Case. You just knew he was guilty because someone alleged , I repeat ALLEGED, that he Texted a message about having sex with a 16 year old.

          Geesh, thats just being swayed by hearsay. And is really reckless

          Glad you never thought about being a Judge
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          • Profile picture of the author Cali16
            Don't people sometimes opt for a plea deal (at the advice of legal counsel) to avoid putting their fate in the hands of a jury - even if they're innocent?

            I'm not saying he is innocent - I haven't seen the evidence. But once you've been tried and convicted by the media, I think it would be very difficult to get a fair trial and a plea might be the best option.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              This is going to piss a lot of people off but... (okay, some people)

              Having sex with a 16 year old who wants to have sex should not be a crime.

              There are better uses for my tax dollar.


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              • Profile picture of the author discrat
                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                This is going to piss a lot of people off but... (okay, some people)

                Having sex with a 16 year old who wants to have sex should not be a crime.

                There are better uses for my tax dollar.


                Joe Mobley
                In many States and in many other Countries it is not only not a crime it is perfectly legal.

                Its not my cup of tea but people in those areas are NOT pedophiles according to the laws in that jurisdiction



                People who get pissed about it should move to those areas and vote for Age revisions.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                This is going to piss a lot of people off but... (okay, some people)

                Having sex with a 16 year old who wants to have sex should not be a crime.

                There are better uses for my tax dollar.

                Joe Mobley
                I'm not pissed ... I think it's sad that men think that having sex with a 16 year old girl is ok, whether the law allows it or not. Having 3 daughters and knowing that teenagers make really crappy decisions pretty much all the time, and knowing there are predators waiting in the wings for that to happen is a sad comment on some men ... in my opinion.
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                • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  I'm not pissed ... I think it's sad that men think that having sex with a 16 year old girl is ok, whether the law allows it or not. Having 3 daughters and knowing that teenagers make really crappy decisions pretty much all the time, and knowing there are predators waiting in the wings for that to happen is a sad comment on some men ... in my opinion.
                  I can appreciate and respect your reasoning on this. I would not even want for you to change your opinion.

                  I'll have a bit more to say when I answer Tim's question.


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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                This is going to piss a lot of people off but... (okay, some people)

                Having sex with a 16 year old who wants to have sex should not be a crime.

                There are better uses for my tax dollar.


                Joe Mobley
                Just wondering at what age do you think your all so precious tax dollars are well spent. 15, 13, 11, ...?
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                • Profile picture of the author discrat
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  Just wondering at what age do you think your all so precious tax dollars are well spent. 15, 13, 11, ...?
                  Tim, if it was 5 we could could really get that National Debt paid down and start spending more on guns so we could shoot some of these 'commie' pedophiles !!
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                  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                    Tim, if it was 5 we could could really get that National Debt paid down and start spending more on guns so we could shoot some of these 'commie' pedophiles !!
                    The irony escapes me.
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  Just wondering at what age do you think your all so precious tax dollars are well spent. 15, 13, 11, ...?
                  For me, equally important is - how much older was the boy than the girl. A 16 year old girl being manipulated by a 25 year old guy is a much different "offense" than a 16 year old girl being manipulated by a 19 year old.

                  By the time a girl is 16, she's in full childbearing condition and has the ultimate responsibility over her body. As young and innocent as she seems, it's she, and she alone, that bears the responsibility of being smart enough to say "no". If it's rape - that's another story, but just general coercion (in this case money), then the girl is guilty of going along with it at an age she should have known better. All responsibility is not on the man by the time a girl is dating age (15 or 16).

                  That said - I am in the belief that Jared is 19. So him dicking around with a 16 year old isn't shocking to me as long as there was no force. He's a young guy who probably was spit on by the girls because of his previous grotesque obesity. I imagine that part of what's up with him is just "paybacks". Now he's thin and has money so........................

                  When I was 16, if you put out for a 19 yr old guy for money, he wasn't called a pervert - you were called a whore. I remember what 16 was like. We were responsible for our own actions back then.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    For me, equally important is - how much older was the boy than the girl. A 16 year old girl being manipulated by a 25 year old guy is a much different "offense" than a 16 year old girl being manipulated by a 19 year old.
                    Jared is a 37 year old full blown pedophile.

                    Fogle, 37, paid for sex with two minors -- ages 16 and 17 -- at the Plaza Hotel and the Ritz Carlton in New York and asked them for access to children even younger -- "the younger the better," he said, according to the court documents. At times, he offered a "finder's fee" to adults who could find him minors for sex. He also viewed pornography involving children as young as 6 years of age.
                    But what you described .... a 16 year old and a 19 year old is called statutory rape in jurisdictions where 16 is not the legal age of consent.
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                  • Profile picture of the author discrat
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


                    That said - I am in the belief that Jared is 19. So him dicking around with a 16 year old isn't shocking to me as long as there was no force.
                    Sal, geesh louise, I know you like to collect rocks but have you been living under one the last decade
                    and a half ? LOL

                    Jared has been spokesperson for Subway for nearly 16 years now.

                    That would make him 3 years old when he started
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                    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                      Sal, geesh louise, I know you like to collect rocks but have you been living under one the last decade
                      and a half ? LOL

                      Jared has been spokesperson for Subway for nearly 16 years now.

                      That would make him 3 years old when he started
                      I took what Sal said to mean that Jared has the suppressed sexual mental capacity of a 19 year old. Not sure I buy that either, but it is a possibility I suppose. That doesn't make his actions any less wrong though.
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                    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                      Sal, geesh louise, I know you like to collect rocks but have you been living under one the last decade
                      and a half ? LOL

                      Jared has been spokesperson for Subway for nearly 16 years now.

                      That would make him 3 years old when he started

                      I don't own a TV and I don't follow MSM or celebrity anything. Of course, I've heard of Jared, but I didn't realize he'd been around this long. I thought he was just some really fat high school kid that who lost weight working (and eating) at Subway.

                      So yeah - maybe I live under a rock. I pay attention to earth sciences and political issues. I can tell you about whats going on in politics, GMO foods, achaeology, "health" legislation, ecological restoration or ruin, mining, etc. But I don't know what goes on in Hollywood. So is that under a rock or just not easily diverted by crap that isn't important to me?
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                      • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
                        Since Jared isn't wealthy anymore, can he send that money to me?
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                • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  Just wondering at what age do you think your all so precious tax dollars are well spent. 15, 13, 11, ...?
                  I'm not sure I have a firm answer to that.

                  My mind has trouble with the logic of what's legal for a 16 year old boy is illegal for a 19 year old boy.

                  Just to clear the air, I have not dated a girl younger than 20 since I was in my mid-to-late 20's. If I see an attractive teenager I'm more likely to think "I wonder if your grandmother is cute?"

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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                Having sex with a 16 year old who wants to have sex should not be a crime.
                I'd agree with you under one condition. It should not be a crime if a dad shoots or even kills the legal adult who does so with his daughter.

                There are better uses for my tax dollar.
                Theres no better use for my shotgun
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

              Don't people sometimes opt for a plea deal (at the advice of legal counsel) to avoid putting their fate in the hands of a jury - even if they're innocent?

              I'm not saying he is innocent - I haven't seen the evidence. But once you've been tried and convicted by the media, I think it would be very difficult to get a fair trial and a plea might be the best option.
              Yeah - innocent people plea bargain all the time. It depends how likely they are to get strung up despite innocence. The FBI, Judges, lawyers, etc. have all been caught manipulating evidence to get convictions.

              Suzanne - what bothers me most about what you are saying is that Business Insider (whoever the hell THEY are), has decided that all that information is just free for broadcasting. Even if Jared is/was innocent -- he'd never get a fair trial with them blabbing the whole damned thing around. Innocent or guilty - they're going to be very lucky if he doesn't sue the snot out of them. A lot of what you've been relating as info from them is info for the jury, not info that should be thrown to the public for a mob lynching.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                Yeah - innocent people plea bargain all the time. It depends how likely they are to get strung up despite innocence. The FBI, Judges, lawyers, etc. have all been caught manipulating evidence to get convictions.

                Suzanne - what bothers me most about what you are saying is that Business Insider (whoever the hell THEY are), has decided that all that information is just free for broadcasting. Even if Jared is/was innocent -- he'd never get a fair trial with them blabbing the whole damned thing around. Innocent or guilty - they're going to be very lucky if he doesn't sue the snot out of them. A lot of what you've been relating as info from them is info for the jury, not info that should be thrown to the public for a mob lynching.
                The info about the texts is old news. Never went to court and Subway swept it under the rug and never going to go to court. Has nothing to do with the child porn investigation that the FBI conducted and that is being discussed that he has reportedly agreed to a plea bargain on and that the Business Insider has nothing to do with.
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              • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                The FBI, Judges, lawyers, etc. have all been caught manipulating evidence to get convictions.
                Good point, Sal. I'm sure that happens more than most people realize, which is really sad.

                I couldn't imagine the horror of being convicted for a crime I didn't commit, especially because someone was too eager to "get that conviction" (and the recognition and accolades that often go with doing so) - or even just to make the public happy that a warm body is behind bars for a crime.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            This is not supporting a pedophile because EVERYTHING you stand so firmly on is based on Speculation and Allegation.

            And this was from the very gitgo of this Case. You just knew he was guilty because someone alleged , I repeat ALLEGED, that he Texted a message about having sex with a 16 year old.

            Geesh, thats just being swayed by hearsay. And is really reckless

            Glad you never thought about being a Judge
            You've cherry picked the information you seem to want to believe. I've quoted more than once in this thread that the affidavit concerning the text messages was:

            * confirmed that they came from Jared's cell phone.
            * confirmed by the franchisees' lawyer
            * confirmed and transcribed by a court reporter
            * confirmed by a notary
            * Business Insider has viewed the text messages

            So that's speculation about the texts ... right. He admitted in those texts, confirmed by a court reporter and notary in an affidavit to having sex with a 16 year old. There is nothing ALLEGED about the texts. They are court record.

            I'll bet you that I've read more articles and dug deeper to form my opinion than you have yours.

            In the messages, Fogle repeatedly asks the woman -- a Subway franchisee at the time -- to advertise herself on Craigslist for sex with other men.

            He asks her if he can watch the sexual acts and tells her she can make about $500 per act.

            The messages in the affidavit, which the attorney says were recorded from the woman's phone by a court reporter in 2008 and witnessed and verified by a notary-public official, span from January 2008 to June 2008. Business Insider independently verified the authenticity of the affidavit. We also verified that a phone number in the document was registered to a Jared Fogle.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              So that's speculation about the texts ... right. He admitted in those texts, confirmed by a court reporter and notary in an affidavit to having sex with a 16 year old. There is nothing ALLEGED about the texts. They are court record.

              I'll bet you that I've read more articles and dug deeper to form my opinion than you have yours.
              Maybe I have


              You conveniently left out parts of the whole article .
              In bold is what you left out. Notice the word "alleged" and notice how all this is based on what the FORMER franchisee's Attorney says. Real reliable there , such a solid and unbiased source LOL

              Of course being a FORMER franchisee there would NEVER in all of the history of mankind someone who could possibly be disgruntled or upset and seek revenge against somebody who they used to work with. Oh gosh never never could that happen could it !! Thats a preposterous notion to even consider

              The FBI has subpoenaed an affidavit containing alleged texts between former Subway spokesman Jared Fogle and a former female Subway franchisee in which Fogle says he paid for sex with a 16-year-old girl, according to the former franchisee's attorney.

              The former franchisee shared the texts and her concerns about Fogle with Subway management at the time, her lawyer says, but Subway did nothing. Subway says it has no record of the woman's complaint.

              The woman's lawyer, who asked to remain anonymous, said the FBI recently subpoenaed his law office for the text-message conversations, which Business Insider has viewed.


              In the messages, Fogle repeatedly asks the woman — a Subway franchisee at the time — to advertise herself on Craigslist for sex with other men.

              He asks her if he can watch the sexual acts and tells her she can make about $500 per act.

              The messages in the affidavit, which the attorney says were recorded from the woman's phone by a court reporter in 2008 and witnessed and verified by a notary-public official, span from January 2008 to June 2008. Business Insider independently verified the authenticity of the affidavit. We also verified that a phone number in the document was registered to a Jared Fogle.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                Maybe I have

                You conveniently left out parts of the whole article .
                In bold is what you left out. Notice the word "alleged" and notice how all this is based on what the franchisee's Attorney says. Real reliable there , such a solid and unbiased source LOL
                The word alleged is used by every news organization for just about everything. It keeps them off the hook. If it were just the woman and her lawyer talking about the texts, you might have a point, but you're saying the court reporter, the lawyer, the Business Insider and a notary are all lying about the legitimacy and existence of the texts.

                Right .... lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    It's getting worse:


    Jared Fogle to plead guilty to child porn, sex with minors
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  • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
    Here are "live" updates to today's proceedings (08-19-15):

    Jared Fogle to plead guilty to child porn, sex with minors
    Signature
    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
    - Jack Trout
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Yes, the evidence is getting more and more. Receiving child porno on girls as young as 6 ??
      Wow. Thats shocking. I did not know it was to that extent

      This is looking more and more like a true sick predator we're dealing with

      This day is really going to be tell tale.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Sorry to hear this. Who knew? He seemed like such a nice guy and it would seem like he wouldn't have any problem hooking up with a bunch of nice ladies of legal age.

    My question is why Jared why????
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    • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Sorry to hear this. Who knew? He seemed like such a nice guy and it would seem like he wouldn't have any problem hooking up with a bunch of nice ladies of legal age.

      My question is why Jared why????
      I know, what happened to this guy? He had money, health, etc.
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by joe golfer View Post

        I know, what happened to this guy? He had money, health, etc.
        Probably the only one here who could begin to explain it and even then, maybe it's just not understood how someone becomes sick and perverted enough to turn their sexual thoughts and actions towards children is Cali. It's unfathomable to most.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Sorry to hear this. Who knew? He seemed like such a nice guy and it would seem like he wouldn't have any problem hooking up with a bunch of nice ladies of legal age.

      My question is why Jared why????
      Originally Posted by joe golfer View Post

      I know, what happened to this guy? He had money, health, etc.

      Same can be said about people like Bundy. Good looking, smart . promising law career and could have and did have many attractive women of legal age.

      The human Mind and how it works can be extremely complex. And extremely sick.

      Fogle, maybe like Bundy , could be a functioning Sociopath.

      If he is, you and I can ask WHY until we turn blue and NEVER get an answer to that.

      These people are like Alien creatures, and we cannot relate to them no matter how hard we try
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Same can be said about people like Bundy. Good looking, smart . promising law career and could have and did have many attractive women of legal age.

        The human Mind and how it works can be extremely complex. And extremely sick.

        I don't get pedophiles anyway but I particularly don't understand a taste where you go from 16 down to 6
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          This image is disturbing after hearing his/their interest in very young girls:

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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Yeah he also has a medical condition and his family says "we are also gratified that he is seeking medical treatment"

            I guess deviancy is a medical condition now . Unbelievable
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            • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Yeah he also has a medical condition and his family says "we are also gratified that he is seeking medical treatment"

              I guess deviancy is a medical condition now . Unbelievable


              It could be you behind bars to under the right circumstances.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post

              Yeah he also has a medical condition and his family says "we are also gratified that he is seeking medical treatment"

              I guess deviancy is a medical condition now . Unbelievable
              Everything I've ever read about treatment for pedophiles says it doesn't work and many reoffend after getting out of prison.

              But this medical thing and treatment thing ... that's show for the court for when he's sentenced. It's our "legal system for the wealthy" at work. Thus far, he hasn't spent a day in jail. He will soon, but his lawyer will obviously use his "treatment" as a defense for a lighter sentence, along with the money he's paying victims. I'll bet he gets the "Martha Stewart" treatment in a minimum security federal prison.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Is it too soon for the Prison $5 foot long jokes?
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


    That said - I am in the belief that Jared is 19.
    Jared is 37
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    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Jared is 37


      No he is 23
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

        No he is 23
        So he was doing Subway commercials when he was 7 (1999)?
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          He's 37 - and that's such an easy fact to check.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    It is UNREAL! Jared did ALL this, sacrificed his family, etc.... For basically NOTHING! Some people DREAM to be in such a situation, and he just threw it down the toilet. I wonder where he will end up now. Apparently his family will be GONE, many friends will be GONE, the media business is GONE! A lot of options are GONE!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      It is UNREAL! Jared did ALL this, sacrificed his family, etc.... For basically NOTHING! Some people DREAM to be in such a situation, and he just threw it down the toilet. I wonder where he will end up now. Apparently his family will be GONE, many friends will be GONE, the media business is GONE! A lot of options are GONE!

      Steve
      You would understand if you had a paraphernalia.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

        You would understand if you had a paraphernalia.
        I have PLENTY of paraphernalia,but what is ***A*** paraphernalia?

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          I have PLENTY of paraphernalia,but what is ***A*** paraphernalia?

          Steve
          Paraphilia, or rather, a paraphilic disorder. Pedophilic disorder is one of several paraphilic disorders.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          the teenage girls he had sex with are hookers
          The whole thing is a sordid story - and that includes the girls that were involved. The child porn adds a whole different level of "yuck".

          People like Jared exist - we know they do. Girls who 16 and hookers aren't innocent little children. It doesn't take a brain doctor to understand a man who was a fat lump when he came of age sexually would want to re-write that history in a perverted way.

          As Steve said, Jared has ended his career and is losing is family - Yet it's a perversion that is tolerated in some other parts of the world.

          My conclusion - Jared is stupid, more than anything. Too impressed with himself and his own celebrity. A man with brains and 15 million would have taken vacations to countries where this behavior is considered 'normal'.

          This whole story is sleazy. In most of these stories the "poor girls" are not innocents. They go along for money, or it's their job or they want to hang out with "fame" or think there is something in it for them...

          Going to be a good payday for those hookers...
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            People like Jared exist - we know they do. Girls who 16 and hookers aren't innocent little children. It doesn't take a brain doctor to understand a man who was a fat lump when he came of age sexually would want to re-write that history in a perverted way.

            My conclusion - Jared is stupid, more than anything. Too impressed with himself and his own celebrity. A man with brains and 15 million would have taken vacations to countries where this behavior is considered 'normal'.
            ....

            Going to be a good payday for those hookers...
            Who is going to pay them for what exactly? Fortunately, the law applies equally to 16 year old hookers or 16 year old choir singers.

            You're making speculation and allegations against girls you don't even know and don't know what circumstances brought them to where they are. They may be throw away kids, runaways from horrendous homes ... anything at all. You don't know, but you pass judgement on them ... didn't you accuse others of passing judgement without the facts?

            You seem to be still making excuses for him. My conclusion: He's a pedophile. But you think he's just stupid. He has sex with 16 year olds, (but they're bad girls anyway) and attempts to find younger ones because he was fat and too stupid to go to a country where having sex with children is legal? Too much.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              The dollar amount is in the settlement - $100,000 cash to each of the 14 girls. Jared will pay 1.4 million to be exact.

              Yes, it's a payday for a 19 yr old who was a 16-17 yr old hooker not long ago. Doesn't whitewash him at all - but these were not innocents he coerced into having sex. They were working girls according to the news release.

              To me the worst part is knowing he looked at photos of young children. THAT is sick.

              I'm not going to argue more on this story - it's just not interesting to me.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                I really don't care - and the dollar amount is in the settlement - $100,000 cash to each of the 14 girls. Jared will pay 1.4 million to be exact.


                .....

                I'm not going to argue more on this story - it's just not interesting to me.
                I'm happy that the victims are getting a settlement, hookers or not. And I hope his wife takes him to the cleaners as well.

                I know it's not interesting to you and you don't care. I do care very much about abuse of children (good and bad children) and I don't care how much opposition my opinion gets.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  A man with brains and 15 million would have taken vacations to countries where this behavior is considered 'normal'.

                  This whole story is sleazy. In most of these stories the "poor girls" are not innocents. They go along for money, or it's their job or they want to hang out with "fame" or think there is something in it for them...

                  Going to be a good payday for those hookers...
                  What country allows sex with 6 year olds? From my understanding, there were very young girls who were photographed, unknowingly, by Fogel's partner and these are the ones getting the money. They weren't hookers and yes, they were innocents.

                  This blaming the victim mentality is just odd to say the least. The Cosby victims are suspect because they want the money, Fogel victims are all non innocent whores.... smh
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    This blaming the victim mentality is just odd to say the least. The Cosby victims are suspect because they want the money, Fogel victims are all non innocent whores.... smh
                    Pretty unbelievable stuff I am reading in this thread. From guys who believe it shouldn't be illegal to sleep with a 16 year old to women claiming 16 year olds are responsible legally and others insinuating the perv should have just travelled to another country to abuse little foreign girls.

                    we don't allow them to vote
                    We don't allow them to legally buy alcohol
                    They cant hold full driver's licenses in many states
                    They are mostly all still in high school

                    but darn it they ought to be adults when it comes to sexual predators.
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                    • Profile picture of the author yukon
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Pretty unbelievable stuff I am reading in this thread. From guys who believe it shouldn't be illegal to sleep with a 16 year old to women claiming 16 year olds are responsible legally and others insinuating the perv should have just travelled to another country to abuse little foreign girls.

                      we don't allow them to vote
                      We don't allow them to legally buy alcohol
                      They cant hold full driver's licenses in many states
                      They are mostly all still in high school

                      but darn it they ought to be adults when it comes to sexual predators.
                      Gov makes the laws.

                      The age of 16 is legal in some US states, they can even get married at 16. Some states even have laws that allow marriage at 14 with a parents consent.

                      I imagine these laws have existed for +100 years & nobody has ever cared enough to update them. Really it should be a federal law at 18 so there's a set standard across the entire US.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            People like Jared exist - we know they do. Girls who 16 and hookers aren't innocent little children.
            That's awfully presumptuous and very judgmental.

            I'm not the one to make excuses for people but it is a medical fact and been proven over and over again by scientists that the frontal lobes in human brains are not fully developed until their early 20s. That means their decision making is not advanced as a grown human beings.

            They physically and biologically cannot rationalize what could be the consequences of certain actions on the same level as say a 30 year old.

            Couple that with an abusive home life with a father that sexual molests her and a drug addict mom who beats her....then you have a recipe for a 16 yr.old who is tormented and a problematic CHILD.

            Yes a CHILD.

            Call her innocent or not innocent if you want. But in some cases there are reasons beyond her control that caused her to act out the way she did
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by discrat View Post


              Call her innocent or not innocent if you want. But in some cases there are reasons beyond her control that caused her to act out the way she did
              Quite often drugs are a factor. Its pushed to the would be prostitute to get them hooked so they can be pimped out. Its asking a lot to ask a 15/16 year old to be able to handle a drug addiction they may well never went out looking for.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Per the article Joe originally posted, they knew by name some of the kids they looked at.
    Court documents reveal Jared Fogle


    If I were DA, I'd not be offering any deals.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    37? 37!

    Okay - that's a different ball game all together. Yep, the dude's a perv. He deserves anything he gets.

    The 16 yr old girl still needs to be taught to think about what she's doing, though.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      37? 37!

      Okay - that's a different ball game all together. Yep, the dude's a perv. He deserves anything he gets.

      The 16 yr old girl still needs to be taught to think about what she's doing, though.
      Sal, the teenage girls he had sex with are hookers. Who knows what their lives are like, but I doubt seriously they have a home life with a mother and father who "teaches" them anything. They may be drug addicts, they may be runaways. Who knows? The important part is that Jared offered them finder's fees for getting younger children to have sex with and in his words ... "the younger the better". And the child porn that he received and he actually knew the children photographed ... some were as young as 6. That porn was produced by his friend and head of the Jared charity organization that he founded, who is also in jail for child porn.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Sal, the teenage girls he had sex with are hookers. Who knows what their lives are like, but I doubt seriously they have a home life with a mother and father who "teaches" them anything. They may be drug addicts, they may be runaways. Who knows? The important part is that Jared offered them finder's fees for getting younger children to have sex with and in his words ... "the younger the better". And the child porn that he received and he actually knew the children photographed ... some were as young as 6. That porn was produced by his friend and head of the Jared charity organization that he founded, who is also in jail for child porn.
        You're absolutely right, Suzanne. Coming from a community where a child with only one parent was rare - and even those kids had good, caring parents and support of a concerned community, sometimes I forget that "normal" and "wholesome" is not actually the average life for a lot of kids. When I hear something like this what goes through my head is that I'd have been grounded til I was 30 if my parents had caught me in such activities. Sometimes having been sheltered is a blessing. Maybe it's a good thing that the media goes apeshyte over this to bring awareness of the human trafficking problem in this country.

        While I don't support lynching anyone who hasn't been proven guilty - I sure support harsh punishment for those who are.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          You're absolutely right, Suzanne. Coming from a community where a child with only one parent was rare - and even those kids had good, caring parents and support of a concerned community, sometimes I forget that "normal" and "wholesome" is not actually the average life for a lot of kids. When I hear something like this what goes through my head is that I'd have been grounded til I was 30 if my parents had caught me in such activities. Sometimes having been sheltered is a blessing. Maybe it's a good thing that the media goes apeshyte over this to bring awareness of the human trafficking problem in this country.

          While I don't support lynching anyone who hasn't been proven guilty - I sure support harsh punishment for those who are.
          Sal, I was sheltered too. But I knew kids on the other side of town that weren't. I made friends with underdogs. One girl I hung out with had a teen pregnant sister who put her head in an oven and committed suicide. Their mother was a prostitute and no father around. The rat hole they lived in made your skin crawl. The poverty was overwhelming. There are no words to say to these kids that make things better.

          I was so sheltered that when I left home in my twenties, my mother accused me of running away .... lol. (and I really was!)
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  • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
    There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding and confusion as to Jared's condition.


    He is attracted to children period. It's not because he was a 'loser' in school. Considering we never even met the dude in school we can't make that assumption.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Not to excuse Jared at all, but it's likely he was sexually assaulted when he was 6 years old.
    Some arrested development occurred causing him to re-do, maybe when he's in control.
    They usually do it to kids who are the same age as they were when it started.
    (Disclaimer: I only have a BA in Psychology and nothing close to Miss Calicat's knowledge and
    experience and expertise.)

    A big concern I have is that his first wife divorced him in 2007. The same year he did the
    16 year old hooker, I believe. What did people know and when and why was not something
    done sooner?
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Well it's clear that he ended his career the same way he started it... Trying to get into a smaller pair of pants.

      Ba Dum Tsss

      Too soon?
      Gary,
      I know you are not trying to be offensive and honestly I gave you a Thanks at first and started to giggle myself by your joke.

      But then I thought about my 5 and 6 year old daughters. And my giggle immediately stopped

      In all due respect to you, not sure if it will ever be appropriate just considering these specific circumstances and the young lives that have been turned upside down.

      But like I said I know you meant know harm by it
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Gary,
        I know you are not trying to be offensive and honestly I gave you a Thanks at first and started to giggle myself by your joke.

        But then I thought about my 5 and 6 year old daughters. And my giggle immediately stopped

        In all due respect to you, not sure if it will ever be appropriate just considering these specific circumstances and the young lives that have been turned upside down.

        But like I said I know you meant know harm by it
        Appropriateness (if that's even a word) is subjective. And the humor doesn't denigrate the children involved. It highlights what a disgusting waste Fogle is. In essence, Gary is saying Jared is a pedophile. That doesn't disparage the children involved any more than if Gary simply said the actual words: "Jared is a pedophile."

        Humor can be used as a defense mechanism which allows us to come to terms with some of the appalling parts of humanity. It can help us work through issues that are otherwise too unsavory to tackle head on.

        That said, I think it's in Subway's best interest if it finds a new slogan. "Subway: Eat Fresh" is a tad tainted now.
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        • Profile picture of the author perryny
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          That said, I think it's in Subway's best interest if it finds a new slogan. "Subway: Eat Fresh" is a tad tainted now.
          Hilarious.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Appropriateness (if that's even a word) is subjective. And the humor doesn't denigrate the children involved. It highlights what a disgusting waste Fogle is. In essence, Gary is saying Jared is a pedophile. That doesn't disparage the children involved any more than if Gary simply said the actual words: "Jared is a pedophile."

          Humor can be used as a defense mechanism which allows us to come to terms with some of the appalling parts of humanity. It can help us work through issues that are otherwise too unsavory to tackle head on.

          That said, I think it's in Subway's best interest if it finds a new slogan. "Subway: Eat Fresh" is a tad tainted now.
          Dan,
          Thats fine. I would appreciate if maybe you would sometimes appreciate others and how they feel about circustances that truly hit a chord in their Life. If that does not hit a chord in your Life thats fine.

          Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel. And everyone can determine what is a good way to deal with things and use defense mechanisms etc..etc..

          I have no problem with that

          I just think considering how I approached Gary in a very respectful and understanding way (as I admitted that I gave him a Thanks) and then how you interjected and basically acted like I was making a silly or nonsensical assertion in your opinion ( not mine) of the way people should or shouldn't handle things is well..."unDan" like

          Just sayin
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            Dan,
            Thats fine. I would appreciate if maybe you would sometimes appreciate others and how they feel about circustances that truly hit a chord in their Life. If that does not hit a chord in your Life thats fine.

            Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel. And everyone can determine what is a good way to deal with things and use defense mechanisms etc..etc..

            No problem with that

            I just think considering how I approached Gary in a very respectful and understanding way (as I admitted that I gave him a Thanks) and then you come and basically act like I was making an silly or nonsensical assertion in your opinion ( not mine) is well..."unDan" like

            Just sayin
            I wasn't disrespectful toward you, Robert. You responded to Gary with your opinion. I responded to you with mine. You think certain humor is inappropriate. I think looking at humor through that prism can be short-sighted.

            If I came off lecture-y it was only because I was trying not to come across as flippant.
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            Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            Dan,
            Thats fine. I would appreciate if maybe you would sometimes appreciate others and how they feel about circustances that truly hit a chord in their Life. If that does not hit a chord in your Life thats fine.
            Meh.....Jokes about five year olds being violated? doesn't really have to hit a chord with your own life.....just bad taste, Rim shot and too soon? doesn't really help anyone work though anything either

            That said, I think it's in Subway's best interest if it finds a new slogan. "Subway: Eat Fresh" is a tad tainted now.
            Really???
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Meh.....Jokes about five year olds being violated? doesn't really have to hit a chord with your own life.....just bad taste, Rim shot and too soon? doesn't really help anyone work though anything either
              Then you should consider the subject a little deeper. I recommend American Humor in a Time of Conflict:

              Amazon.com: Cracking Up: American Humor in a Time...Amazon.com: Cracking Up: American Humor in a Time...

              Or possibly talk to some doctors and nurses and ask them about their senses of humor.


              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Really???
              Dead serious. Subway needs to toss that slogan in the trash, and whistle while looking both ways as it walks away. The saying is so on the nose it's already cliche, which is exactly what feeds hacks.
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              Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Then you should consider the subject a little deeper. I
                rofl....Dan Sorry but you are not being deep...you are just being desperate to justify a joke two Dad's took objection to. Still if you think what you do down here requires deep thinking you have my condolences. thats one of the funniest things I have read down here in a long time. Makes up for Gary's miss

                American Humor in a Time of Conflict
                Curious thing........ I couldn't find anything in the table of contents about the humor of getting into kid's pants. You wouldn't be trying to con the forum that you found a book that supports that now would you? If not....page number please

                Dead serious. Subway needs to toss that slogan in the trash, and whistle while looking both ways as it walks away. The saying is so on the nose it's already cliche, which is exactly what feeds hacks.
                Meh.....I don't know what group you move in but i don't know very many adults who would make any connection there. I do know a few guys who generally haven't grown up whose minds might go somewhere twisted but Cliche? nah. I'd bet most women would never make a connection and a whole pile of men haven't stopped eating fresh vegetables because of pedophiles.

                Since you are the new resident psychiatrist of how to get through hard times through humor maybe you and Gary can actually try it on one of the Dad's of the kids that Jared abused since they are the ones actually going through something to work through.

                Report to us afterwards and tell us how it went over with them.I'm sure you willl have them rolling in the aisles. Either that or they'll have you rolling instead


                ....only in the basement.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  rofl....Dan Sorry but you are not being deep...you are just being desperate to justify a joke two Dad's took objection to. Still if you think what you do down here requires deep thinking you have my condolences. thats one of the funniest things I have read down here in a long time. Makes up for Gary's miss
                  Who said anything about me being deep, Mike? I said you should take a deeper look at the subject if you disagree that humor has a place in the healing process. That's just simple reading comprehension right there.

                  Second, I'm not justify anything. I commented on the subjectivity of appropriateness. Your and Richard's objection is no more or less valid than my acceptance.


                  Curious thing........ I couldn't find anything in the table of contents about the humor of getting into kid's pants. You wouldn't be trying to con the forum that you found a book that supports that now would you? If not....page number please
                  I no longer own the book. It was donated a couple years ago when we moved. However, if you need some proof, one reviewer said the following:

                  "The first chapter, "One, Two, Freddy's Coming for You" is one of the most insightful analyses of the teen slasher, Nightmare on Elm, Chucky, and serial killer flicks ever written in film or horror critique. "Freddy" then becomes a recurring theme as Lewis somehow manages to stay light by tossing bons mots into engaging discussions of pedophile priests, political correctness, Abu Ghraib, positive humor posers, and the worst president in modern memory. You'll laugh, shiver, get grossed out, and think."



                  Meh.....I don't know what group you move in but i don't know very many adults who would make any connection there. I do know a few guys who generally haven't grown up whose minds might go somewhere twisted but Cliche? nah. I'd bet most women would never make a connection and a whole pile of men haven't stopped eating fresh vegetables because of pedophiles.
                  It's amazing, Mike, how your opinion is always the correct one, at least in your opinion. "Eat Fresh" will become the new "Jesus Juice."

                  Since you are the new resident psychiatrist of how to get through hard times through humor maybe you and Gary can actually try it on one of the Dad's of the kids that Jared abused since they are the ones actually going through something to work through.

                  Report to us afterwards and tell us how it went over with them.I'm sure you willl have them rolling in the aisles. Either that or they'll have you rolling instead
                  I think it was fairly obvious I was speaking to the collective consciousness, but, yes, humor has been shown to lessen the effects of mental stress. If you'd actually like to learn something rather than cast smarm, I could speak directly and personally on how humor helped me work through the PTSD caused by the death of my own child, but I'd much prefer to do that through PM.


                  ....only in the basement indeed. [/QUOTE]
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                  Raising a child is akin to knowing you're getting fired in 18 years and having to train your replacement without actively sabotaging them.

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                  • Profile picture of the author discrat
                    Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post


                    I think it was fairly obvious I was speaking to the collective consciousness,
                    Well if that's the case then your whole argument up to this point in all honesty Dan was very weak and in many regards irrelevant .

                    The fact is the majority of the "collective consciousness" i.e me, Mike, and I'll take a stab and say most of the people reading this Thread (and 99%+ of the World for that matter) are NOT the ones coping with having a child being raped by a Pedophile. (Yes i admit on a personal level this story is very disconcerting and very sad to me but it is not anything I have to seek a " defense mechanism" so as to deal with and come to grips with ).

                    No, the ones coping with it and having to "work through the issues" are the parents, classmates, teachers, brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc.. of the child brutally raped by a Ped.

                    And I'll venture to guess (as I have said before) they don't find this humor therapeutic or an effective way to cope within this Context.

                    I will agree with you that this type of humor can be very beneficial in SOME if not MANY horrible tragedies. There is absolutely no question it can !! And yes I do believe that is has helped with your own personal loss of your child. Which I can only imagine was extremely tough and no question is probably the worst of the worst thing any human being has to experience. Sincerely, kudos to you. Like I said I can only imagine what kind of hell you went thru and probably still do go thru.

                    But I will have to add in all due respect, I dont know how your child died. Its none of my business. But say you have a close friend who has a child around your own child's age got raped by Jared and ended up dying because of it... would you then think it was cool and therapeutic to joke about this pedophile getting in kids pants or the Eat Fresh joke ??

                    You talk about YOU benefiting from using this type humor in your own child's death. Well,would it be okay if me or Mike started joking about it and using that humor about your child's death so we can cope with it and use defense mechanisms to deal with it ??

                    See how that works ??

                    Lets face it in some Contexts this humor it is not effective . And using the "Collective Consciousness" argument is just inane and flawed reasoning as it pertains to this particular scenario.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                    Who said anything about me being deep, Mike? I said you should take a deeper look at the subject if you disagree that humor has a place in the healing process. That's just simple reading comprehension right there.
                    spare me the drivel Dan. It may be your idea of reading comprehension that because humor has been known to get people through hard times it applies to all humor regardless of its nature but it isn't the comprehension of all intelligent adults. In fact it isn't the reading comprehension of ANY intelligent adults


                    I think it was fairly obvious I was speaking to the collective consciousness, but, yes, humor has been shown to lessen the effects of mental stress. If you'd actually like to learn something rather than cast smarm, I could speak directly and personally on how humor helped me work through the PTSD caused by the death of my own child, but I'd much prefer to do that through PM.

                    Why in the world are you invoking the death of your child here? Seriously Dan sorry you lost your child but what in tarnation does that have to do with making jokes about adults getting in kids pants?? You can speak directly and personally about how jokes about perves getting in childrens pants got you through the loss of a child? IF you want to instruct people in learning something then first learn how to read

                    No one in this thread has ever denied in general terms that humor doesn't get people though hard times. You are not instructing anyone on anything they don't already know. You've merely created a strawman to suit yourself. TO claim however that because humor has gotten people through hard times that all forms of it are good for that is just asinine.

                    However you lost your child I wouldn't want to be in here making jokes about it. I haven't met any family that lost a family member through suicide become great lovers of suicide jokes. I won't sit down with a man that lost family members to drunk driving and tell him

                    "heard the one about the drunk thats slammed into a family in a Delorean?"

                    Rimshot

                    Too soon?"

                    Give the whole therapeutic mumbo jumbo croc a rest. No intelligent person buys it. Thats not helping anyone get though anything . Its just a dumb joke that a father took objection to and you are scurrying about looking for some excuse to yes justify.

                    It's amazing, Mike, how your opinion is always the correct one, at least in your opinion. "East Fresh" will become the new "Jesus Juice."
                    MJ gave liqour to minors. Jesus juice doesn't refer to a sex act. Sorry Dan but I don't buy the average Dad especially not Mom is going to connect eat fresh to pedophilia. Do I think some guys on here will? Maybe but the connection is already depraved and frankly your mind has to think a certain way to go there.

                    Bottom line the forums aren't your comedy club where everyone has to laugh and no one can disagree. if you ask me your "smarm" is that the entire board has to accept non stop your comedy even when it aint funny. Discrat says hey guys that rubs me wrong because I have children that age. Why the junk can't you respect that?

                    Yep only in the basement does a a few guys hold everyone and every thread a hostage to their sense of humor and now even try to give lectures on it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Bottom line the forums aren't your comedy club where everyone has to laugh and no one can disagree. if you ask me your "smarm" is that the entire board has to accept non stop your comedy even when it aint funny.
                      A rather hypocritical statement coming someone who's notorious for arguing - in the most condescending and rude manner - with anyone who dares disagree with him... How many threads have you gotten closed as a result???

                      So you don't like Dan's "comedy". Fair enough. Put him on ignore or go somewhere else, Mike. At least Dan's not blatantly rude to people simply because they don't agree with him. You, however, frequently are.

                      As for the humor issue, Dan's correct in that humor and laughter can be very therapeutic. That appeared to be the main point he was trying to make, even if you and others felt his supporting argument was a bit weak. So, since you agree on that then let the rest go; you've made your point and hounded it to death (as usual).

                      A lot of people use humor as a defense mechanism, particularly when faced with a situation or subject that is uncomfortable or painful for them. And it's not unusual for someone to find their humor offensive or inappropriate. Many use humor as a coping mechanism (or rather, a therapeutic tool) to heal or get through hard times as well. (Defense and coping have different meanings in this context).

                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      Yep only in the basement does a a few guys hold everyone and every thread a hostage to their sense of humor and now even try to give lectures on it.
                      More hypocrisy, from the king of lectures and holding threads hostage...

                      Dan's absolutely right, Mike, in that you regard your opinion as the only one that's correct.
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                      If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post


          Humor can be used as a defense mechanism which allows us to come to terms with some of the appalling parts of humanity. It can help us work through issues that are otherwise too unsavory to tackle head on.

          That said, I think it's in Subway's best interest if it finds a new slogan. "Subway: Eat Fresh" is a tad tainted now.
          Curious Dan, who is us ??
          You talk about defense/coping mechanisms but for who ??

          You mean people on the outside looking in?

          The fact is it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that the ones who are in need of the defense/coping mechanisms are guess who....drum roll folks....the family whose 5 year old were raped by a pedophile or the parents of 8 year old whose uncle photographed the child kissing and fondling another 8 year old

          I know you can rationalize better than this.

          So here is an experiment :If your coping/defense mechanism using this type of humor is so effective why don't you go to the source where your effective defense/coping is most needed...those victim's parents and surrounding family and put it to test. Tell them "eat fresh " joke" or Garys Pants joke and lets see how therapeutic it really is and how good of a Coping mechanism it is for these parents and how well it can help them "work through issues"


          Like I said your on the outside looking in.

          Its not about us being anal or looking at humor through a particular Prism its about having the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes !

          And Kids for the most part should be off limits
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I see we still have a few Anal Corncob hoarders in the off topic forum sheesh. I can remember now why I haven't been here in a while.

    People make pedophile jokes about Michael Jackson all of the time - even after the poor guy is dead. It's not meant to make light of pedophilia - but to make fun of an idiot.

    I apologize if you misunderstood my intentions, but at least give me the benefit of the doubt if you don't understand the humor. Assuming I'd make light of such a crime is also offensive.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I see we still have a few Anal Corncob hoarders in the off topic forum sheesh. I can remember now why I haven't been here in a while.
      May you remember it for all time. Far be it from me to give a flying fig about your name calling just because i didn't really care for a joke about getting into the pants of kids. Rim shot!!

      People make pedophile jokes about Michael Jackson all of the time - even after the poor guy is dead. It's not meant to make light of pedophilia - but to make fun of an idiot.
      If I hear an MJ joke about getting into the pants of a 5 year old I'll call it out too .Haven' t heard one.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I see we still have a few Anal Corncob hoarders in the off topic forum sheesh. I can remember now why I haven't been here in a while even though I cant see the irony in my own actions... i.e resorting to name calling because someone had a different opinion than me
      Fixed that for you
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  • Profile picture of the author gthorpe
    Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    More living proof that no matter how nice somebody appears to be, you really don't know the person.

    Cosby and Jared.

    Can't help to wonder who's next.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      More living proof that no matter how nice somebody appears to be, you really don't know the person.

      Cosby and Jared.

      Can't help to wonder who's next.


      I don't think anyone is perfect you know?


      If people judged me by my flaws I would be the worst of the worst
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      'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
      -Muhammad Ali

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