EXCLUSIVE - I reveal what NASA is going to reveal about MArs

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On Monday (US time or Tuesday morning in more civilised parts of the world) NASA is going to reveal some astounding (apparently) new information about Mars.

I have been given access to this information and can reveal it to youse guys in a world wide exclusive.

They are going to announce that Mars is definitely inhabited by fluffy bunnies who possess:

A) Opposable thumbs which enables them to grasp spoons and forks, but more importantly, hand tools; Using hand tools such as chisels and mallets, these fluffy bunnies have traveled all over the red planet carving bits of rock to make them look like objects familiar to Earthlings.

B) A wicked sense of humour. They have done this for the sole reason of playing with Shane's head.

Remember folks, you read it here first.

You're welcome.
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Careful how you bad mouth the US, we'll revoke your ticket to Pandora.
      I've no idea what Pandora is (an online radio station?) If you revoke our access to FoxNews as well, it's worth it.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        "On Monday (US time or Tuesday morning in more civilised parts of the world) NASA is going to reveal some astounding (apparently) new information about Mars."

        This bit though. Will there be some sort of announcement?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Careful how you bad mouth the US, we'll revoke your ticket to Pandora.
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        I've no idea what Pandora is (an online radio station?) If you revoke our access to FoxNews as well, it's worth it.
        How 'bout this then: Keep it up and I'm voting for Trump.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          How 'bout this then: Keep it up and I'm voting for Trump.
          You'd never do anything to please Claude.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            You'd never do anything to please Claude.
            Dammit. I've become predictable.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        On Monday (US time or Tuesday morning in more civilised parts of the world) NASA is going to reveal some astounding (apparently) new information about Mars.

        I have been given access to this information and can reveal it to youse guys in a world wide exclusive.

        They are going to announce that Mars is definitely inhabited by fluffy bunnies who possess:

        A) Opposable thumbs which enables them to grasp spoons and forks, but more importantly, hand tools; Using hand tools such as chisels and mallets, these fluffy bunnies have traveled all over the red planet carving bits of rock to make them look like objects familiar to Earthlings.

        B) A wicked sense of humour. They have done this for the sole reason of playing with Shane's head.

        Remember folks, you read it here first.

        You're welcome.


        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        I've no idea what Pandora is (an online radio station?) If you revoke our access to FoxNews as well, it's worth it.
        Yes, Foxtel, screw the poor and give to the rich!

        Or buy out popular tv series, and from what l have heard, buy out the ABC!

        Major announcement, LOL, don't count on it!

        And for the record the third party manned mission is still on, they will launch a communications satellite in the next two years, and a rover in about 5!

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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          Major announcement, LOL, don't count on it!
          I think it's actually something to do with water.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            I think it's actually something to do with water.
            Some experts are predicting NASA will announce they've discovered flowing water on Mars.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Some experts are predicting NASA will announce they've discovered flowing water on Mars.

              I would be very very surprised if that's it.
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I would be very very surprised if that's it.
                And you know what that means, dolphins. Bigger brains than humans.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  And you know what that means, dolphins. Bigger brains than most humans.
                  Fixed it for you.
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                  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Fixed it for you.
                    Ah yes, I forgot you have a Blow Hole.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      Ah yes, I forgot you have a Blow Hole.
                      How could you forget? You ask me for photos of it often enough.
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                      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        How could you forget? You ask me for photos of it often enough.
                        I have all (er..know someone who has) those movies from when your porn name was Flipper, you know, the ones you recorded in Fin-land
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                        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                          So, some salty flowing water on the surface periodically that quickly freezes and evaporates, but water, none the less. Could be a lot underground.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            I would be very very surprised if that's it.
                            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                            So, some salty flowing water on the surface periodically that quickly freezes and evaporates, but water, none the less. Could be a lot underground.
                            Be sure you break the news to Claude slowly, we don't want him to have a heart attack...on second thought:


                            Claude! There's flowing water on Mars!!!
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                            So, some salty flowing water on the surface periodically that quickly freezes and evaporates, but water, none the less. Could be a lot underground.

                            Yup. Here's the news.....

                            Liquid water exists on Mars, boosting hopes for life, NASA says - CNN.com

                            I wonder if that means there is a hot core to the planet, that we weren't aware of.


                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            Claude! There's flowing water on Mars!!!

                            Don't tell me that!

                            I consider any information that differs from my set world view...and religious beliefs...as a threat, and something to be ignored or destroyed.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              Yup. Here's the news.....

                              Liquid water exists on Mars, boosting hopes for life, NASA says - CNN.com


                              Don't tell me that!

                              I consider any information that differs from my set world view...and religious beliefs...as a threat, and something to be ignored or destroyed.
                              What a coincidence...that's exactly how I feel about you.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                What a coincidence...that's exactly how I feel about you.
                                You don't want to destroy me. I'll be honest with you...I wouldn't want to live in a world without Claude Whitacre.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  You don't want to destroy me. I'll be honest with you...I wouldn't want to live in a world without Claude Whitacre.
                                  I'm willing to give it a chance.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                    I'm willing to give it a chance.
                                    In your hurry to post the obligatory insult...I don't think you got the joke.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      I can't believe I'm going to say this....I don't think you saw the joke.
                                      Yes, I did. And even though you don't want to live in a world without you, I am willing to give it a chance. When It comes to your comment about me not seeing the joke, I believe that's what they call "irony". LOL
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                        Yes, I did. And even though you don't want to live in a world without you, I am willing to give it a chance. When It comes to your comment about me not seeing the joke, I believe that's what they call "irony". LOL
                                        You made me look up "irony" to make sure it was being used correctly.

                                        Irony is one of those words I don't use, and I keep forgetting what it means, unless it's said in context.

                                        Another word I keep forgetting is Bass tard. (The cursing filter demanded I made some changes to the word) As in, "Is Kurt as much of a Bass tard as he seems in print?" I hope I used that word correctly.
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                            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                              Oh dear, Shane will be all over this, blue sky's and beaches, pirate bunnies sailing on the ocean.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                Oh dear, Shane will be all over this, blue sky's and beaches, pirate bunnies sailing on the ocean.
                                I'm waiting for that. And truthfully, it makes my heart sink.

                                This news does tend to indicate that microbial life may be there, even now.
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                                • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  Shane; Always know that an insult from me..or Riffle...or from several other guys here...is a tribute. We don't tease people we don't like.
                                  Oooookkkk!


                                  My days of attracting desirable women really are over. I was very lucky to find a great one, before I got old and ugly.
                                  Hmmm! Yes, your wife has good taste in glasses, unlike some women in AU, that go for the latest trend of Louis Lane reject glasses! Latest trend usually means, silly, or ugly?

                                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                  Claude is constantly addressing the mirror looking for imperfections. Most of the time he just gets his Prision Number wrong.
                                  There!

                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  Shane; Don't ever say that again.

                                  I mean they won't find flowing water. Ice is more plausible. Or maybe organic signs of dead bacteria. That's a possibility.

                                  Although during the day, sometimes Mar's surface temperature is low enough for water to be liquid...there is almost no atmospheric pressure to keep the water from evaporating.
                                  Eventhough if NASA, is right the sky would be black regardless of whether it is day or not!

                                  I suspect that when the third party rover lands in 2020, and finds a different land pressure, NASA will say that their equipment is faulty.

                                  As for the flowing water and things in the water, well, they just covered themselves. Or tried to!

                                  They don't want the 10 year court session to go for too long?

                                  OK, back to reality...

                                  NASA has been keeping this from us for decades. Everyone that ever worked for NASA has been sworn to secrecy...or shot. Martians are real. They are known as the Storgoi.

                                  They look like us, except with prehensile tails, and more of a lizard appearance.

                                  And they are here....to impregnate our women, and vote Republican.
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  I'm waiting for that. And truthfully, it makes my heart sink.

                                  This news does tend to indicate that microbial life may be there, even now.
                                  Maaaaarrrrrrrrh!

                                  Yes, pretty much a sure thing that they are swimming about it underground pools somewhere!

                                  But to get back to my "Told You So, You ......." post.

                                  We will probably see this in the next 5!




                                  Probably becuase of this, maybe NASA officials are color blind?



                                  Or this that l posted in March 2013. NASA, l think that the N, stands for Numbskull?



                                  Or this one, (with Curiosity's tire impressions on the left. No conspiracy!







                                  Or the top image that looks like, clear water, duh!



                                  Or this one, clearly showing a clear liquid, (l can say water now, yay) covering this white rock. No, proof, maybe that numbskull should have come here first?



                                  Revengue is sweet, LOL!



                                  PS l know that l am a genius, Claude, but you will get used to it!
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                            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              Yup. Here's the news.....

                              Liquid water exists on Mars, boosting hopes for life, NASA says - CNN.com

                              I wonder if that means there is a hot core to the planet, that we weren't aware of.

                              Don't tell me that!

                              I consider any information that differs from my set world view...and religious beliefs...as a threat, and something to be ignored or destroyed.
                              F*** FINALLY!

                              I found frickin water years ago!

                              We haven't found any evidence til now,....try looking at your early Curiosity images????

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                              • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                                F*** FINALLY!

                                I found frickin water years ago!

                                We haven't found any evidence til now,....try looking at your early Curiosity images????


                                You can find water on Mars, but you can't find a woman on earth?

                                Priorities, Shane. Priorities.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                                  You can find water on Mars, but you can't find a woman on earth?

                                  Priorities, Shane. Priorities.
                                  I think that by limiting Shane to women on Earth, you are denying him all the women on the other planets, other dimensions, and the astral plane.

                                  You are an Earthist.

                                  If there is water on Mars, there is also alcohol...which means there are women there, for the free drinks. You need to open your mind.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                    If there is water on Mars, there is also alcohol...which means there are women there
                                    I seriously doubt that. I can't recall seeing any shoe shops on the latest images.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                                  You can find water on Mars, but you can't find a woman on earth?

                                  Priorities, Shane. Priorities.
                                  Shane has found several women he's interested in. He just needs to finish sealing up the basement.
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                    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      Ah yes, I forgot you have a Blow Hole.
                      The Blow Hole - yet another of Claude's porn names.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                        The Blow Hole - yet another of Claude's porn names.
                        Wrong. But I did perform under the name Blowhard. It's not just a description...it's a promise.



                        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                        I think I know which planet you're referring to. Let's not mention it though. We don't wat to get Claude worked up into a sexual frenzy.
                        Sexual Frenzy is what they used to call me at the Disco.....in my leisure suit....made from clear bubble wrap.
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Some experts are predicting NASA will announce they've discovered flowing water on Mars.
              LOL, pretty funny thread all up, l remember the last time they made a big announcement, which people speculated was the alien one, but it turned out to be some pretty lame, it has been conclusively proven that Mars had oceans!

              I agree with Claude, on this one, they found liquid on Mars surface a few years, ago, still nothing!!!

              You would have to get NASA CEO's in a corner with a gun to their heads for any really big announcements!

              I don't expect anything earth shattering!

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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                I agree with Claude,
                Shane; Don't ever say that again.


                I mean they won't find flowing water. Ice is more plausible. Or maybe organic signs of dead bacteria. That's a possibility.

                Although during the day, sometimes Mar's surface temperature is low enough for water to be liquid...there is almost no atmospheric pressure to keep the water from evaporating.



                OK, back to reality...

                NASA has been keeping this from us for decades. Everyone that ever worked for NASA has been sworn to secrecy...or shot. Martians are real. They are known as the Storgoi.

                They look like us, except with prehensile tails, and more of a lizard appearance.

                And they are here....to impregnate our women, and vote Republican.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    The announcement is that it's been verified as fact that Mars is inhabited solely by robots.

    Ooops. Hope I didn't spoil the surprise.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    Mars has Matt Damon on it.

    Shoot me off quick.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      Mars has Matt Damon on it.

      Shoot me off quick.
      You will never catch him, he runs so fast, and in that gravity!
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    I got it the first time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      I got it the first time.
      Me too.


      Notice how slow Claude is? When most people make a double post, they are within a few seconds of each other. But it takes Claude 3 minutes to make a double post, probably because he's trying to think of what he wants to say again.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        You can find water on Mars, but you can't find a woman on earth?

        Priorities, Shane. Priorities.
        Gee, l thought that you were going to use the "Can't get a horse to drink",... or something like that?

        Yes, probably need to make a bundle first? Working on it!


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I think that by limiting Shane to women on Earth, you are denying him all the women on the other planets, other dimensions, and the astral plane.

        You are an Earthist.

        If there is water on Mars, there is also alcohol...which means there are women there, for the free drinks. You need to open your mind.
        The chances of finding women on Mars is a million to one!


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Shane has found several women he's interested in. He just needs to finish sealing up the basement.
        You Cruel B****!!!! But l have to admit, it was pretty funny, well, in a sink in the knife, and give it a twist for laughs, kind of way?


        I know that your days of attracting desirable women are over Claude, but you still have the frumpy, balding ones with facial hair and carrying balls of string?




        Don't have a basement! After the time displacement experiment went haywire, it caved in, so....
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          You Cruel B****!!!! But l have to admit, it was pretty funny, well, in a sink in the knife, and give it a twist for laughs, kind of way?


          I know that your days of attracting desirable women are over Claude, but you still have the frumpy, balding ones with facial hair and carrying balls of string?
          Shane; Always know that an insult from me..or Riffle...or from several other guys here...is a tribute. We don't tease people we don't like.

          My days of attracting desirable women really are over. I was very lucky to find a great one, before I got old and ugly.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Me too.


        Notice how slow Claude is? When most people make a double post, they are within a few seconds of each other. But it takes Claude 3 minutes to make a double post, probably because he's trying to think of what he wants to say again.
        I'm angry with you, so I'm not replying to your post.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Kurt,

    You need to bring out a "How to make Claude angry" WSO pronto. It'd sell trillions of copies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      Kurt, you need to bring out a "How to make Claude angry" WSO pronto. It'd sell trillions of copies just in the OT Forum.
      I would buy it, because my name is in the title. Plus....I'm an idiot.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I would buy it, because my name is in the title. Plus....I'm an idiot.
        No, not an idiot, just narcissistic.


        (In 37 seconds Riffle will say you're both.)
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I would buy it, because my name is in the title. Plus....I'm an idiot.
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          No, not an idiot, just narcissistic.


          (In 37 seconds Riffle will say you're both.)

          He's both.


          (Sorry, Biz. I was stuck in a Youtube spiral.)
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          No, not an idiot, just narcissistic.


          (In 37 seconds Riffle will say you're both.)
          Claude is constantly addressing the mirror looking for imperfections. Most of the time he just gets his Zip Code wrong.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            Claude is constantly addressing the mirror looking for imperfections. Most of the time he just gets his Zip Code wrong.
            Actually, I look in the mirror, looking for signs of a soul.

            I'll keep looking.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Actually, I look in the mirror, looking for signs of a soul.

              I'll keep looking.

              Look for signs of intellect and a pulse while you're at it.


              Ah, skip the intellect part. You won't know what to look for.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Look for signs of intellect and a pulse while you're at it.


                Ah, skip the intellect part. You won't know what to look for.
                Which brings me to this.


                And decency will not allow me to say who I instantly think of when I see this.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                  And decency will not allow me to say who I instantly think of when I see this.

                  It's unfortunate that decency didn't stop your mother from procreating.
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                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                    Yes, l find it fascinating that Curiosity drove past flowing water years ago, but nothing?

                    I would think that close up images of water flowing down a gully with some green stuff here and there would clinch the does Mars have water on its surface argument!

                    I would say that this announcement, proves that they are not disclosing everything that they find!

                    The world is in for some pretty big shocks in the coming years.

                    The head in the sand days are coming to an end!

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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Actually, I look in the mirror, looking for signs of a soul.

              I'll keep looking.
              "Actually, I look in the mirror, looking for signs of ass soul."

              Corrected
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          No, not an idiot, just narcissistic.


          (In 37 seconds Riffle will say you're both.)
          I'm not narcissistic, I'm pompous. I used to be narcissistic, but it got in the way of my delusions of grandeur.....tempered with my megalomania.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            but it got in the way of my delusions of grandeur
            I thought you suffered from delusions of adequacy.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              I thought you suffered from delusions of adequacy.

              He meant "grande", as in "Nacho Bell Grande." He just fat fingered the keys.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              I thought you suffered from delusions of adequacy.
              When Claude posts we all suffer.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well, So Shane doesn't have to say it himself -

    Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya -- Shane was right. Shane was right. Shane was right.

    Perhaps you might note that Shane and I argued not about whether there was water -- but rather whether the fact was being suppressed or not. I have seen it in at least one of their reports (which I really had to dig for, but it was there).

    So...........in light of the fact that some people really ragged on him and called him more or less a nut - need some salt and butter on the words you are now having to eat?

    Because he has also seen signs of life and debris that is "unnatural" in any context to what we know as "natural" formation, we might want to hold our tongues on that issue now, too - because NASA is now thinking there might be life on the planet.

    But Shane..............about those fluffy bunnies...............................

    Liquid water exists on Mars, boosting hopes for life, NASA says - CNN.com

    Shane - Some of those pics are definitely stream beds and NASA was saying they found a dried up lake with rock in it that might contain fossils............so at least they always knew there HAD been water and never tried to hide that and it never got buried in a stack of reports. It is not clear to me that they knew the composition of the "water", though. There's never been a question of ice at the caps - and, well, what happens when ice melts? I just never "got" this whole argument.

    Also - they have found a dried lake bed (which means they know there WAS water at one time all along), which they reported had rocks that very well might contain fossils. So they're admitting right there that they think there was at least life at one time.

    While most of the pics that you have posted have been too pixilated for anyone to make any real judgement about - I have seen pics that are much clearer of some anomalies on the planet's surface. Also - not too long ago, too, there was a strange incidence posted on NASA - they had a pic when the rover was sitting and there was a very strange looking "rock" in the pic. Later the "rock" was gone. They had a very difficult time in deciding what to say happened to the "rock". I can't remember what the explanation was, but I do know it wasn't on a playa and it was only a matter of hours before it disappeared so no explanation other than being kicked out of the way would suffice for it disappearing. So................................. I am going to suggest that everyone hold their tongue about your sanity no matter what godawful pixilated pics you post until we have further information.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Well, So Shane doesn't have to say it himself -

      Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya -- Shane was right. Shane was right. Shane was right.
      You know that Shane is really picturing a water fountain on Mars, with androids dancing around it....
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Well, So Shane doesn't have to say it himself -

      Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya -- Shane was right. Shane was right. Shane was right.

      Perhaps you might note that Shane and I argued not about whether there was water -- but rather whether the fact was being suppressed or not. I have seen it in at least one of their reports (which I really had to dig for, but it was there).

      So...........in light of the fact that some people really ragged on him and called him more or less a nut - need some salt and butter on the words you are now having to eat?

      Because he has also seen signs of life and debris that is "unnatural" in any context to what we know as "natural" formation, we might want to hold our tongues on that issue now, too - because NASA is now thinking there might be life on the planet.

      But Shane..............about those fluffy bunnies...............................

      Liquid water exists on Mars, boosting hopes for life, NASA says - CNN.com

      Shane - Some of those pics are definitely stream beds and NASA was saying they found a dried up lake with rock in it that might contain fossils............so at least they always knew there HAD been water and never tried to hide that and it never got buried in a stack of reports. It is not clear to me that they knew the composition of the "water", though. There's never been a question of ice at the caps - and, well, what happens when ice melts? I just never "got" this whole argument.

      Also - they have found a dried lake bed (which means they know there WAS water at one time all along), which they reported had rocks that very well might contain fossils. So they're admitting right there that they think there was at least life at one time.

      While most of the pics that you have posted have been too pixilated for anyone to make any real judgement about - I have seen pics that are much clearer of some anomalies on the planet's surface. Also - not too long ago, too, there was a strange incidence posted on NASA - they had a pic when the rover was sitting and there was a very strange looking "rock" in the pic. Later the "rock" was gone. They had a very difficult time in deciding what to say happened to the "rock". I can't remember what the explanation was, but I do know it wasn't on a playa and it was only a matter of hours before it disappeared so no explanation other than being kicked out of the way would suffice for it disappearing. So................................. I am going to suggest that everyone hold their tongue about your sanity no matter what godawful pixilated pics you post until we have further information.
      Sorry, but NASA's announcement doesn't mean Shane was right. I haven't seen any proof that what Shane claimed is water in any of his pics is actually water. Just because NASA found water somewhere on Mars doesn't mean Shane found water in any of his pictures.


      And even if Shane's pictures did contain some type of fluid, which is debatable, Shane needs to prove it's actually water. There's a number of other things that are fluids.


      Since the atmosphere of Mars is so slight, it's hard to suggest that water would flow in streams and rivers that would cause "beds" under the present circumstances, because the water would likely become steam and evaporate at those low pressures, which is what is happening with NASA's discovery of "flowing" water. Once the water reaches the surface, it evaporates.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Sorry, but NASA's announcement doesn't mean Shane was right. I haven't seen any proof that what Shane claimed is water in any of his pics is actually water. Just because NASA found water somewhere on Mars doesn't mean Shane found water in any of his pictures.


        And even if Shane's pictures did contain some type of fluid, which is debatable, Shane needs to prove it's actually water. There's a number of other things that are fluids.


        Since the atmosphere of Mars is so slight, it's hard to suggest that water would flow in streams and rivers that would cause "beds" under the present circumstances, because the water would likely become steam and evaporate at those low pressures, which is what is happening with NASA's discovery of "flowing" water. Once the water reaches the surface, it evaporates.
        Yeah, that's why the flowing salty water is really just slightly underground. It evaporates when it hits the surface.

        The discovery of water on Mars (although completely different from anything Shane has said), does multiply the possibility that primitive bacteria is living below the surface. It also indicates (but doesn't prove) that there is a hotter core on Mars.

        In the future, I wouldn't be surprised that we don't find things like bacteria and mold in deep sealed caves....or even subterranean aquifers. And when NASA says "life", that's what they mean. They don't mean Martian cattle.

        This isn't water that is on the surface, like a flowing river.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Actually - surface water is EXACTLY what NASA said:

    "Potentially life-giving water still flows across the ancient surface of Mars from time to time, NASA scientists said Monday in revealing a potential breakthrough in both the search for life beyond Earth and human hopes to one day travel there."

    It is seasonal run off and it's not like standing lakes or rivers -- but there is surface flow. I can't believe people can't handle this little bit of information. Do you also have a problem with water they have found on other planets?

    I'm out of here again. This purposeful obtuseness is exactly what I am tired of in this forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm out of here again. This purposeful obtuseness is exactly what I am tired of in this forum.
      My work is done.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Actually - surface water is EXACTLY what NASA said:

      "Potentially life-giving water still flows across the ancient surface of Mars from time to time, NASA scientists said Monday in revealing a potential breakthrough in both the search for life beyond Earth and human hopes to one day travel there."

      It is seasonal run off and it's not like standing lakes or rivers -- but there is surface flow. I can't believe people can't handle this little bit of information. Do you also have a problem with water they have found on other planets?

      I'm out of here again. This purposeful obtuseness is exactly what I am tired of in this forum.
      If by "purposeful obtuseness" you mean logical discussion...good bye. But thanks for the "good bye cruel world" letter.


      BTW, your post is totally a straw man. My main points were that Shane never proved that what he claims is water is really water. No need to lie to yourself that I can't handle this "little bit of information". Quite the contrary, I'm thrilled about it and all the possibilities it means.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        If by "purposeful obtuseness" you mean logical discussion...good bye. But thanks for the "good bye cruel world" letter.


        BTW, your post is totally a straw man. My main points were that Shane never proved that what he claims is water is really water. No need to lie to yourself that I can't handle this "little bit of information". Quite the contrary, I'm thrilled about it and all the possibilities it means.
        Same here. I read more about this, than anyone I know. I'm a real science enthusiast. I know you are too. The realities are far more exciting than any "Butterflies and unicorns" talk.

        But.....I think she was talking to me. Nobody can irritate Sal like I can. It's part of my fragile self image. It's the only way I can feel like a real man.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          If you can spare some time folks I ask that you watch this episode of Rich Planet TV. It is a now defunct UK cable show. (It was actually taken off the air by the struggling cable company because it caused too much controversy while re-investigating a murder.)

          The people who present it maintain that whatever they investigate and pronounce upon is purely Evidence Based.

          What they have to say about the Mars Rovers and the conclusion they reached to say they are not on Mars, but on Earth, duping us and the controllers at NASA is actually quite compelling.

          It would explain a lot. Why Shane and others are seeing fossils and artifacts, he could be seeing them for real because they are on Earth.why NASA tints the Sky pink, despite that, you often see high Cumuli Nimbus type clouds? I have noticed this in pictures. You will also note that the discovery of flowing water was only reached by photographs and measurements by the orbiters, not the rovers.

          Take a look at this episode.

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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

            What they have to say about the Mars Rovers and the conclusion they reached to say they are not on Mars, but on Earth, duping us and the controllers at NASA is actually quite compelling.
            Sorry. That's impossible. Everyone at NASA would have to know. Every supplier, every contractor...everyone working for every contractor....the people that built the lander, the rocket, the people tracking the path of the Mars mission.

            The people that bought the fuel for the rocket, the people designing and building the guidance system, Literally tens of thousand of people would have to be quiet....would have to be OK with fraud....lying to everyone they know.

            In fact, it would probably be easier and cheaper, just to send the rover to Mars, than to fake the whole thing. There have been similar videos by people saying the Moon landing was fake. It's simply cheaper to do the real thing, than to cover up a lie as massive as that.

            The fuel was really put in a real rocket. Everything that was built, by thousands of different contractors, actually does what it's supposed to. If it was all a fake, it was a stupid fake, because everything was designed, built, tested, inspected, approved, shipped, assembled, launched and paid for, as though it really happened. And if we really sent a Rover to Mars, that means there isn't a reason for a massive, international coverup.





            The fact that the vast majority of humans believe things at least as ridiculous as this, makes me yearn for the sweet nebulous quiet embrace of eternal oblivion.
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            • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              . . . makes me yearn for the sweet nebulous quiet embrace of eternal oblivion.
              You must have had the ladies swooning with the vacuum cleaner, doorstep sales pitches. Urgh.
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              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                The fact that the vast majority of humans believe things at least as ridiculous as this, makes me yearn for the sweet nebulous quiet embrace of eternal oblivion.
                Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                You must have had the ladies swooning with the vacuum cleaner, doorstep sales pitches. Urgh.
                "Eternal oblivion" is Claude's name for his Riccar.

                .
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                You must have had the ladies swooning with the vacuum cleaner, doorstep sales pitches. Urgh.
                If you only knew.


                Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                "Eternal oblivion" is Claude's name for his Riccar.

                .

                Actually, my vacuum's name is Kurt. I named it Kurt, because it's loud, irritating, smells bad, is cheaply made of inferior materials... is full of hot air....and every time it's turned on, smelly hot air comes out the back, and everyone has to leave the room.


                The smelly fat vacuum bag I take out and throw away...whenever it's full of crap.....I named Riffle.

                The sweet smelling deodorizer that is in the shape of a sunbeam...I haven't named yet. I'm leaning toward Terra.
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                • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  Well, So Shane doesn't have to say it himself -

                  Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya, Nya -- Shane was right. Shane was right. Shane was right.

                  Perhaps you might note that Shane and I argued not about whether there was water -- but rather whether the fact was being suppressed or not. I have seen it in at least one of their reports (which I really had to dig for, but it was there).

                  So...........in light of the fact that some people really ragged on him and called him more or less a nut - need some salt and butter on the words you are now having to eat?

                  Because he has also seen signs of life and debris that is "unnatural" in any context to what we know as "natural" formation, we might want to hold our tongues on that issue now, too - because NASA is now thinking there might be life on the planet.

                  Shane - Some of those pics are definitely stream beds and NASA was saying they found a dried up lake with rock in it that might contain fossils............so at least they always knew there HAD been water and never tried to hide that and it never got buried in a stack of reports. It is not clear to me that they knew the composition of the "water", though. There's never been a question of ice at the caps - and, well, what happens when ice melts? I just never "got" this whole argument.

                  While most of the pics that you have posted have been too pixilated for anyone to make any real judgement about - I have seen pics that are much clearer of some anomalies on the planet's surface. Also - not too long ago, too, there was a strange incidence posted on NASA - they had a pic when the rover was sitting and there was a very strange looking "rock" in the pic. Later the "rock" was gone. They had a very difficult time in deciding what to say happened to the "rock". I can't remember what the explanation was, but I do know it wasn't on a playa and it was only a matter of hours before it disappeared so no explanation other than being kicked out of the way would suffice for it disappearing. So................................. I am going to suggest that everyone hold their tongue about your sanity no matter what godawful pixilated pics you post until we have further information.
                  Thanks Sal, yes basking in the limelight!

                  Yes, the rock that looked like a mobile phone. I remember that in one pic, nothing was there, and the next day it appeared. I said that one of the martian locals was having some fun.

                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  You know that Shane is really picturing a water fountain on Mars, with androids dancing around it....
                  Arr, no, not androids?

                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Sorry, but NASA's announcement doesn't mean Shane was right. I haven't seen any proof that what Shane claimed is water in any of his pics is actually water. Just because NASA found water somewhere on Mars doesn't mean Shane found water in any of his pictures.


                  And even if Shane's pictures did contain some type of fluid, which is debatable, Shane needs to prove it's actually water. There's a number of other things that are fluids.


                  Since the atmosphere of Mars is so slight, it's hard to suggest that water would flow in streams and rivers that would cause "beds" under the present circumstances, because the water would likely become steam and evaporate at those low pressures, which is what is happening with NASA's discovery of "flowing" water. Once the water reaches the surface, it evaporates.
                  Well, Mars air pressure is probably more like ours, than the NASA BS claim, so there is no water flow issues!

                  I won't go into all the details, but one individual did notice water vapour coming of part of some of the previous rover decent debris, when the sun was out.

                  Water, even salty doesn't evaporate into clouds of vapour, with near zero air pressure!

                  As l said, the world is in for some shocks in the coming years, about f**** time!

                  But if you don't want to believe that it is water, then fair enough,...pat, pat!


                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Yeah, that's why the flowing salty water is really just slightly underground. It evaporates when it hits the surface.

                  The discovery of water on Mars (although completely different from anything Shane has said), does multiply the possibility that primitive bacteria is living below the surface. It also indicates (but doesn't prove) that there is a hotter core on Mars.

                  In the future, I wouldn't be surprised that we don't find things like bacteria and mold in deep sealed caves....or even subterranean aquifers. And when NASA says "life", that's what they mean. They don't mean Martian cattle.

                  This isn't water that is on the surface, like a flowing river.
                  No the martian cattle will come later, one shock at a time?


                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  Actually - surface water is EXACTLY what NASA said:

                  "Potentially life-giving water still flows across the ancient surface of Mars from time to time, NASA scientists said Monday in revealing a potential breakthrough in both the search for life beyond Earth and human hopes to one day travel there."

                  It is seasonal run off and it's not like standing lakes or rivers -- but there is surface flow. I can't believe people can't handle this little bit of information. Do you also have a problem with water they have found on other planets?

                  I'm out of here again. This purposeful obtuseness is exactly what I am tired of in this forum.
                  Yes, Sal, NASA admits it, and still we get standoff behaviour?

                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  If by "purposeful obtuseness" you mean logical discussion...good bye. But thanks for the "good bye cruel world" letter.


                  BTW, your post is totally a straw man. My main points were that Shane never proved that what he claims is water is really water. No need to lie to yourself that I can't handle this "little bit of information". Quite the contrary, I'm thrilled about it and all the possibilities it means.
                  Yes, it might be Cool-Aid?

                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  The thing about this is that it's anti the conspiracy theories that have been and are being talked about. All this stuff where people zoom in on features on the rather scant amount of photo's and info Nasa releases only to find them blurred could be them blotting out Earthly features. There being a colored sky of any sort beggars disbelief, let alone a sometimes a blue one which is a color due to the presence of oxygen. The tinting of the photo's that NASA have obviously done (no question) also I find disturbing, why? Having watched the program I scrutinized some photo's and thought, that looks exactly like an Earth sky that's been tinted.

                  I still would ask you to watch it if you get the chance. But here are some main points anyway. The twin rovers are about the size of powered chairs. That means to move they would need about 6 kilowatts of power to function ( I'm guessing here not having seen it in a while but the power ratio is right) The solar array on these machines are capable of producing about one and coupled with that the weaker sunlight because of the distance means they would take a long time to charge the rover but even when it did, was it enough to power it?

                  Next we come to the amazing gust of wind that inexplicably blew all the dust that was on the solar panels (the only source of power) of one of the Rovers and without that happening it would have died. (this explanation was well documented when announced) So, would the dust have not have come back and why did the same thing not happen to the other rover, I suppose it had experimental dust/sand repellent They produced a photo that the rover took of itself showing the panels, nooks and crannies, screw surrounds all scrupulously clean like it had just been polished. Great winds they have there to do such a thorough job.

                  Next you can stare in disbelief at photos of the 2 landscape's of the remote locations used to test out the rover prototypes. Reddish sandy soil, strewn rubble and hills of layered strata exactly resembling those allegedly taken on Mars. That's another thing, so much rubble and uneven surfaces to be able to land a craft on remotely without it toppling over.

                  What we also see is one of those photo's that a Mars pic scrutinizer has found which appear to show fossilized bones embedded in the ground and compare it with a fossil of a terrestrial seal (or something) Uncanny match.

                  Dare I venture, they might just not be able to do it yet?

                  I'm not saying that NASA is not capable of sending robot craft to flyby, orbit and and photograph other worlds. Perhaps drop a static probe even. I think in this episode (perhaps not) they scrutinized the Camera that was used to film on the moon saying that it was impossible due to the harsh temps and they would get blank footage. So they may have visited the moon but filmed and used at least some of the footage on a soundstage here for the punters.

                  I really hope that this is all one hundred percent bona-fide real and my head scratching is unfounded. I want it to be so as much as you do. If it turns out to be a fake or part fake though I want to know and be the first to congratulate Shane on his detection skills (if for the wrong reason)

                  The final question, why would they do this charade anyway?. prestige, pride, to keep funding and interest, a distraction to keep the public occupied.

                  One thought on that, the Earth has finite resources, the Solar System has unlimited material for mining as long as we get the transport costs down. Perhaps that's a huge factor.
                  Yes, some can't handle the advanced civilization, and Mars being another earth like planet, but that, (l believe) is the way we are headed.





                  Yes, had long discussions about air pressure, and the fact that if Mars was as NASA says then it would be black sky only!

                  Above images wearn't color corrected, they are a rare, few images NASA released.

                  And as you have said, a blue sky shows an oxygen rich atmosphere, (we only need 20% for life forms, etc).

                  But as said before one shock at a time, we don't want some members doing the lemming of the cliff. Hmmmm,....no, probably not?

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                  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                    Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                    Thanks Sal, yes basking in the limelight!

                    Why?

                    Well, Mars air pressure is probably more like ours, than the NASA BS claim, so there is no water flow issues!
                    Got any proof? Sorry, but I'll take NASA's word over yours.

                    Water, even salty doesn't evaporate into clouds of vapour, with near zro air pressure!
                    The lower the air pressure, the lower the boiling point. Thermodynamics 101. Assuming a theoretical vacuum with zero pressure, liquid water will instantly flash vaporize, becoming steam.

                    But if you don't want to believe that it is water, then fair enough,...pat, pat!
                    If you're going to make a claim, prove it. This isn't about what you want to believe, it's about what's real.

                    Yes, Sal, NASA admits it, and still we get standoff behaviour?
                    NASA didn't "admit" anything. They made an announcement of a discovery they made.


                    Yes, it might be Cool-Aid?
                    No, I think your problem is likely 5 or 6 too many Fosters.



                    Yes, some can't handle the advanced civilization, and Mars being another earth like planet, but that, (l believe) is the way we are headed.
                    You are confusing not being able to handle something with needing actual proof that something exists.


                    Yes, had long discussions about air pressure, and the fact that if Mars was as NASA says then it would be black sky only!
                    Instead of guessing, using the color of the sky as some sort of evidence, how about you send a barometer to Mars, like NASA did? I like that idea better.


                    And as you have said, a blue sky shows an oxygen rich atmosphere, (we only need 20% for life forms, etc).
                    Rayleigh scattering of light is what causes the sky to be blue, not oxygen. Also, I believe there were plenty of life forms on Earth during periods when there was less than 20% oxygen in our atmosphere. Plus, marine life doesn't rely on oxygen in the atmosphere at all, at least directly.


                    Your turn Claude.
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                    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                      Why?
                      Because its there?


                      Got any proof? Sorry, but I'll take NASA's word over yours.
                      You will take NASA's word over mine? NASA or Curiosity drove past flowing water 2 years ago! Or cool-aid? Whatever it was they should have announced it?

                      But if you enjoy being lied to, then....?

                      The lower the air pressure, the lower the boiling point. Thermodynamics 101. Assuming a theoretical vacuum with zero pressure, liquid water will instantly flash vaporize, becoming steam.
                      This fact is significant because the atmospheric pressure at the martian surface hovers just below that value. Any water that might form on a warm afternoon from melting water would quickly disappear in the desiccated martian atmosphere.
                      Making a Splash on Mars - NASA Science

                      Ok, water vapor might be briefly present before it disappears, but it is unlikely it would create a vapor burst as long as the one seen. But all the other evidence goes against the air pressure one.

                      If you're going to make a claim, prove it. This isn't about what you want to believe, it's about what's real.

                      NASA didn't "admit" anything. They made an announcement of a discovery they made.
                      No, it is about me showing water flowing here and there years ago, and we got nothing from NASA!

                      Or it is about obvious withholding of information!


                      Rayleigh scattering of light is what causes the sky to be blue, not oxygen. Also, I believe there were plenty of life forms on Earth during periods when there was less than 20% oxygen in our atmosphere. Plus, marine life doesn't rely on oxygen in the atmosphere at all, at least directly.


                      Your turn Claude.
                      Blue Skies and Blue Haze: resulting from selective scattering by air molecules

                      Blue skies are produced as shorter wavelengths of the incoming visible light (violet and blue) are selectively scattered by small molecules of oxygen and nitrogen -- which are much smaller than the wavelength of the light. The violet and blue light has been scattered over and over by the molecules all throughout the atmosphere, so our eyes register it as blue light coming from all directions, giving the sky its blue appearance.
                      You are confusing not being able to handle something with needing actual proof that something exists.

                      Instead of guessing, using the color of the sky as some sort of evidence, how about you send a barometer to Mars, like NASA did? I like that idea better.
                      Ok, you are right, l use common sense, deductive reasoning and piece together other compelling evidence, to form a theory that l believe to be true, and NASA confirms it a few years later!

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                      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                        l use common sense, deductive reasoning and piece together other compelling evidence, to form a theory that l believe to be true,
                        Everybody print this out and frame it.

                        Read it every day before you return to the Off Topic Forum.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                    Well, Mars air pressure is probably more like ours, than the NASA BS claim, so there is no water flow issues!
                    Let's take this statement. It is a pretty good representation of your claims.

                    How do you know that air pressure is probably like ours? What do you base it on? A feeling? A dream you had? Is there any source, other than your imagination?

                    You say that NASA's claim is BS. You mean everyone that works there? Literally all scientists working for NASA are in a mass conspiracy..and only you know the truth?

                    You mean that all the people with telescopes, everyone that analyzes the data, is lying? Except you?

                    Let's completely ignore NASA for the moment. You mean every scientist working on space technology and exploration...in every county on the planet....for the past 50 years....is all part of a secret society of covert masterminds......and only you have pierced the secrecy that they have maintained?

                    Do you honestly think that every rational person on this planet is wrong, including every scientist, science teacher, and everyone with a telescope....and you, based on literally nothing but a feeling....are right?

                    Does that really make any sense to you?

                    What is the most interesting to me, when I talk to you (and a couple others that think like you) there seems to be no interest in real science. Reading science books, watching the Science Channel, any actual educational material...just holds no interest. It's only the fringe claims, fueled by imagination that interest you. I just find that interesting.

                    And I want to leave you with this thought;

                    Children vibrate.
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                    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                      Let's take this statement. It is a pretty good representation of your claims.

                      How do you know that air pressure is probably like ours? What do you base it on? A feeling? A dream you had? Is there any source, other than your imagination?

                      You say that NASA's claim is BS. You mean everyone that works there? Literally all scientists working for NASA are in a mass conspiracy..and only you know the truth?

                      You mean that all the people with telescopes, everyone that analyzes the data, is lying? Except you?

                      Let's completely ignore NASA for the moment. You mean every scientist working on space technology and exploration...in every county on the planet....for the past 50 years....is all part of a secret society of covert masterminds......and only you have pierced the secrecy that they have maintained?

                      Do you honestly think that every rational person on this planet is wrong, including every scientist, science teacher, and everyone with a telescope....and you, based on literally nothing but a feeling....are right?

                      Does that really make any sense to you?

                      What is the most interesting to me, when I talk to you (and a couple others that think like you) there seems to be no interest in real science. Reading science books, watching the Science Channel, any actual educational material...just holds no interest. It's only the fringe claims, fueled by imagination that interest you. I just find that interesting.

                      And I want to leave you with this thought;

                      Children vibrate.
                      No, every scientist that works for NASA wants to keep working for NASA, so they shut up!

                      But they usually give hints in videos, etc.


                      Real science, LOL, you mean real what NASA wants us to believe science!

                      Why did NASA ignore obvious signs of water in 2012??????


                      Ok, air pressure, l could go on with possible life, etc, but l will stay with hard logic on this one!

                      What NASA Isn't Telling You About Mars

                      Dust devils being virtually impossible with those pressures, and the dry ice, not being possible are some of the contradictions! Normal ice more so!

                      I know NASA has said it is some special electro-magnetic dust devils, groan!

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                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                        Real science, LOL, you mean real what NASA wants us to believe science!
                        No, Shane. I mean every scientist on the planet...in every country. They all agree on what's on Mars. They all see the same thing. So, they are all under the evil influence of NASA?

                        Concentrate. Think.
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                        • Profile picture of the author socialentry
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                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          No, Shane. I mean every scientist on the planet...in every country. They all agree on what's on Mars. They all see the same thing. So, they are all under the evil influence of NASA?

                          Concentrate. Think.
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                        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                          No, Shane. I mean every scientist on the planet...in every country. They all agree on what's on Mars. They all see the same thing. So, they are all under the evil influence of NASA?

                          Concentrate. Think.
                          Actually it is a bit different than saying eg., the blue pagadonian plant on Earth has pink spots. People will either accept that or can go and look for themselves. It can be verified many times over.

                          Apart from our telescope and spectrometer readings of Mars from the Earth or Earth orbit we are relying entirely on one Agency, one organization to give us accurate information about the surface of Mars and it's conditions. Our accurate knowlege relies entirely on there honesty and transparency.

                          Question, are the transmissions from the Rovers and the orbiters available for anyone to receive a raw stream of data. Just wondering?
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                            Actually it is a bit different than saying eg., the blue pagadonian plant on Earth has pink spots. People will either accept that or can go and look for themselves. It can be verified many times over.

                            Apart from our telescope and spectrometer readings of Mars from the Earth or Earth orbit we are relying entirely on one Agency, one organization to give us accurate information about the surface of Mars and it's conditions. Our accurate knowlege relies entirely on there honesty and transparency.
                            Mark; No. Every country has it's NASA equivalent. In fact, some countries merge their data and technology, to accomplish things like sending a probe to Mars. We non't need to rely on NASA. But they are the ones seeing the photos first, because they have the technology to receive them, format them, and analyze them.

                            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                            Question, are the transmissions from the Rovers and the orbiters available for anyone to receive a raw stream of data. Just wondering?
                            Don't know precisely. But it isn't the same as just downloading a photo. It may take years for NASA to access every photo taken.
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                            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                              Mark; No. Every country has it's NASA equivalent. In fact, some countries merge their data and technology, to accomplish things like sending a probe to Mars. We non't need to rely on NASA. But they are the ones seeing the photos first, because they have the technology to receive them, format them, and analyze them.



                              Don't know precisely. But it isn't the same as just downloading a photo. It may take years for NASA to access every photo taken.
                              So, what do we have in terms of a physical visitation to Mars from these Other agencies or collectives other than a load of failed missions?. I am not familiar with any other orbiting probes or landers currently operating, I could be wrong and often am, perhaps in the past.. If NASA craft are the only source though I hope they would give them the necessary protocols and frequencies to be able to get the raw data and see it for themselves. They would certainly have the money to have the equipment to receive it.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                So, what do we have in terms of a physical visitation to Mars from these Other agencies or collectives other than a load of failed missions?.
                                No idea. That's not what I was talking about. Before the actual Mars missions, we knew as much about Mars as every other astronomer, looking out of other telescopes, in other countries. I didn't mean that they all flew their own independent missions to Mars. I meant they contributed technology, information, and expertise toward the missions NASA sent.

                                Before the Mars probes were sent, we already knew nearly everything we know now. We already knew the atmosphere, what it was made of, what the temperatures were...the probes give us clearer pictures. The "water on Mars" thing is new though.



                                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                If NASA craft are the only source though I hope they would give them the necessary protocols and frequencies to be able to get the raw data and see it for themselves. They would certainly have the money to have the equipment to receive it.
                                Don't know. I'm sure it's easy to find out though, if you were really interested.

                                In every discussion, eventually it gets detailed enough for one side to start saying, "I don't know". I think we are about there.

                                You have no idea how draining these exchanges are (mostly between Shane and me). There is no way to logic my way around. It's like wrestling with wind.

                                My brother was schizophrenic. Much of this thread reminds me of conversations I'd have with him.
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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  No idea. That's not what I was talking about. Before the actual Mars missions, we knew as much about Mars as every other astronomer, looking out of other telescopes, in other countries. I didn't mean that they all flew their own independent missions to Mars. I meant they contributed technology, information, and expertise toward the missions NASA sent.

                                  Before the Mars probes were sent, we already knew nearly everything we know now. We already knew the atmosphere, what it was made of, what the temperatures were...the probes give us clearer pictures. The "water on Mars" thing is new though.

                                  Participation is optional, resistance not to do it is futile.




                                  Don't know. I'm sure it's easy to find out though, if you were really interested.

                                  In every discussion, eventually it gets detailed enough for one side to start saying, "I don't know". I think we are about there.

                                  You have no idea how draining these exchanges are (mostly between Shane and me). There is no way to logic my way around. It's like wrestling with wind.

                                  My brother was schizophrenic. Much of this thread reminds me of conversations I'd have with him.
                                  Participation is optional, resistance not to do it is futile.

                                  I only ultimately want the true facts, whatever it is. I may dump some controversial hypothesis (like I did earlier) on these threads but quickly retreat back to being the observer. Until it's unanimously screamed from the rooftops that will always be my stance. Exhausting entertainment though this can be.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                    Participation is optional, resistance not to do it is futile.

                                    I only ultimately want the true facts, whatever it is. I may dump some controversial hypothesis (like I did earlier) on these threads but quickly retreat back to being the observer. Until it's unanimously screamed from the rooftops that will always be my stance. Exhausting entertainment though this can be.
                                    This may be better in a PM, but here goes.

                                    I like you. I think you and I would be good friends if we ever met. There are areas we will never agree on. But it's not because of any logical disagreement. You have a spiritual side (I can't think of a better word) that I simply don't have. But I see a real "seeking out the truth" aspect to you, that I usually don't see. It's that part of you, that I like the most.

                                    Kiss me.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      This may be better in a PM, but here goes.

                                      I like you. I think you and I would be good friends if we ever met. There are areas we will never agree on. But it's not because of any logical disagreement. You have a spiritual side (I can't think of a better word) that I simply don't have. But I see a real "seeking out the truth" aspect to you, that I usually don't see. It's that part of you, that I like the most.

                                      Kiss me.
                                      Thanks, I'm sure we would

                                      And my life partner Kurt is dying to meet you too.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                        Thanks, I'm sure we would

                                        And my life partner Kurt is dying to meet you too.
                                        Dan Riffle also has that desire to know. I don't mean that nobody else here has it, but it's obvious to me that you and Riffle have that quality.

                                        I'll be honest, I think Kurt is a tad smarter than I am. His arguments are crisper than mine. A couple other people here are like that. And it's harder to see these qualities, in someone you aren't on equal footing with.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                        Thanks, I'm sure we would

                                        And my life partner Kurt is dying to meet you too.
                                        If by "meet" Claude you really mean "bitch slap", then I agree 100%.
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                                • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                  There is no way to logic my way around. It's like wrestling with wind.

                                  My brother was schizophrenic. Much of this thread reminds me of conversations I'd have with him.
                                  That's why I never talk politics
                                  That's why I never talk religion
                                  That's why I never talk to my x wife.

                                  To me it appears once most people get a idea in there head ... that's it.
                                  Game over. Every single piece of additional information is colored towards
                                  their existing belief. Anything outside of that belief is discounted or
                                  argued away with nonsense.

                                  It really doesn't really matter what the topic is.

                                  I think it takes special kind of person to say...shit, maybe I'm wrong. Teach me!
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                                    That's why I never talk politics
                                    That's why I never talk religion
                                    That's why I never talk to my x wife.

                                    To me it appears once most people get a idea in there head ... that's it.
                                    Game over. Every single piece of additional information is colored towards
                                    their existing belief. Anything outside of that belief is discounted or
                                    argued away with nonsense.

                                    It really doesn't really matter what the topic is.
                                    Yes.

                                    And that's why conversations have to take place before the person has accepted a reality. It's why we believe the most ridiculous things. (I'm including myself)

                                    The rule is; The first person to get to a new mind....wins.

                                    I have estimated, after careful consideration, that 70% of everything I completely believe to be true...simply isn't. I'm serious.

                                    But I am working on it.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      I have estimated, after careful consideration, that 70% of everything I completely believe to be true...simply isn't. I'm serious.

                                      But I am working on it.

                                      In 1500 words or less, compare and contrast "truth" and "fact."
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                                        In 1500 words or less, compare and contrast "truth" and "fact."
                                        I use the words interchangeably. But facts are demonstrable. testable. Truth may include facts, but also includes ideas that are completely in line with logic, supported by facts....even when attacked from every angle, from every point of view.

                                        What I consider a truth is much closer to a fact, than the way most people use the word. For example, to me a "truth" can't be a personal truth that isn't true from every perspective.


                                        Dan Riffle is short. Fact. Your height can be measured, verified.

                                        Claude Whitacre Hates Dan Riffle. Truth.



                                        I know, There is a difference in meaning. but I don't use the word truth in a spiritual or personal way. In the way the word Truth is used much of the time, I'd use the word perception.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                          I use the words interchangeably. But facts are demonstrable. testable. Truth may include facts, but also includes ideas that are completely in line with logic, supported by facts....even when attacked from every angle, from every point of view.

                                          What I consider a truth is much closer to a fact, than the way most people use the word. For example, to me a "truth" can't be a personal truth that isn't true from every perspective.


                                          Dan Riffle is short. Fact. Your height can be measured, verified.

                                          Claude Whitacre Hates Dan Riffle. Truth.



                                          I know, There is a difference in meaning. but I don't use the word truth in a spiritual or personal way. In the way the word Truth is use much of the time, I'd use the word perception.
                                          I don't really care either way. I just wanted to see if you'd complete the assignment if I gave you some busy work.


                                          Bazinga!
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                                            I don't really care either way. I just wanted to see if you'd complete the assignment if I gave you some busy work.


                                            Bazinga!

                                            The fact that you say your question was just to see if I would march to the beat of your drum....is perhaps the funniest thing you could say.

                                            I suspect you already know that.
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                              I want to tell you the story of The Toads Of The Mojave Desert.

                                              Once upon a time, there was a man named ....um Ralph.

                                              Ralph started a thread about the Toads Of The Mojave Desert. In his thread, he told us that the Mojave desert was a haven for killer mutant alien toads. They had their secret lair, in the middle of the Mojave desert.

                                              These alien toads were invading our planet. They were raping and impregnating our women. Ralph told us about how the toads communicated by telepathy, and traveled by using the sixth dimension and hyper space.....and quantum physics.

                                              We found out, through Ralph, that NASA was keeping all this a secret........ about the killer alien telepathic rapist toads of the Mojave desert.

                                              Ralph, even had a thread with hundreds of photos of the Mojave desert, where he pointed to rocks, describing how these were really invisible cyborg soldier toads, leading a toad army to devour our planet.

                                              The peaceful people of Earth, kept trying to convince Ralph, that there probably weren't killer intelligent cyborg mutant toads in the Mojave desert, and NASA probably wasn't behind a plot to destroy Earth, and then serve their new mutant toad overlords.

                                              This made Ralph very angry.

                                              One day, NASA reveals that they have actually discovered a toad, in hibernation, just below the surface of the sand......in the Mojave desert. NASA , and most other people, already knew that there were toads in the Mojave desert, just not hibernating under the surface of the sand. So...the fact that one was still alive, was news.


                                              And because the words Mohave and Toad were in that announcement.....Ralph is vindicated. "I told you so!" he cheered.

                                              And within a year, the planet was destroyed by mutant alien cyborg rapist telepathic monster desert toads.

                                              And Ralph couldn't be happier.

                                              The End.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                I want to tell you the story of The Toads Of The Mojave Desert.

                                                Once upon a time, there was a man named ....um Ralph.

                                                Ralph started a thread about the Toads Of The Mojave Desert. In his thread, he told us that the Mojave desert was a haven for killer mutant alien toads. They had their secret lair, in the middle of the Mojave desert.

                                                These alien toads were invading our planet. They were raping and impregnating our women. Ralph told us about how the toads communicated by telepathy, and traveled by using the sixth dimension and hyper space.....and quantum physics.

                                                We found out, through Ralph, that NASA was keeping all this a secret........ about the killer alien telepathic rapist toads of the Mojave desert.

                                                Ralph, even had a thread with hundreds of photos of the Mojave desert, where he pointed to rocks, describing how these were really invisible cyborg soldier toads, leading a toad army to devour our planet.

                                                The peaceful people of Earth, kept trying to convince Ralph, that there probably weren't killer intelligent cyborg mutant toads in the Mojave desert, and NASA probably wasn't behind a plot to destroy Earth, and then serve their new mutant toad overlords.

                                                This made Ralph very angry.

                                                One day, NASA reveals that they have actually discovered a toad, in hibernation, just below the surface of the sand......in the Mojave desert. NASA , and most other people, already knew that there were toads in the Mojave desert, just not hibernating under the surface of the sand. So...the fact that one was still alive, was news.


                                                And because the words Mohave and Toad were in that announcement.....Ralph is vindicated. His story must be true.

                                                And within a year, the planet was destroyed by mutant alien cyborg rapist telepathic monster desert toads.

                                                And Ralph couldn't be happier.

                                                The End.
                                                Well I Readitt, found it Ribbeting and was deeply moved by your story/parody, So, I hopped to the portable restroom only to find it had been toad away by a toad truck.

                                                I suspect you changed some names here to protect the innocent. Now, if you could just point me to the You-Tube video where you got this I would have the undeniable proof I need.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                                  Well I Readitt, found it Ribbeting and was deeply moved by your story/parody, So, I hopped to the portable restroom only to find it had been toad away by a toad truck.

                                                  I suspect you changed some names here to protect the innocent. Now, if you could just point me to the You-Tube video where you got this I would have the undeniable proof I need.
                                                  NASA killed everyone that produced the videos that would definitely prove that killer mutant toads are invading Earth. And the real sources still alive, went underground....or are possessed by toads.

                                                  All I can find right now are actual science videos. But with a little LSD and sleep deprivation, I'm sure I can cobble something together.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                                                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                                    I predict there will be life on Mars because doughnuts have holes. Then when they find life on Mars, I'll gloat and tell everyone that I was right about life on Mars because donuts have holes.
                                                    You will probably be waiting a while?

                                                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                                    Claude buy's so many dounuts that even with his appetite he takes days to get through them, so they end up having Worm Holes.

                                                    Now this is interesting, here is a picture of Matt Damon on the surface of Mars (From the film, the Martian) with a blue sky behind him. It would appear that the people at Hollywood have taken on board this and are no longer tinting their studio shots bright red or pink. Also notice a more salmon colored landscape.

                                                    The Martian: A 'love letter to science' - BBC News
                                                    Glad that one corporation gets it? He even has his helmet off, promising! Good to see that l am not the only one that thinks that the NASA air pressure data is dodgy.

                                                    Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                                    Good God? Good God, Claude? Even with God capitalized?

                                                    You're slippin' Baby.


                                                    Terra
                                                    Slip, sliding away....!

                                                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                                    Shane, Kurt - I meant that Shane is right about water. After seeing some of the things that were said to him over the years when he insisted - I think he deserves a little bit of "I told you so". It astounds me how hard that is for a few people in here to say "way to go" to him. This revelation isn't that baffling that anyone should be having cognitive dissonance over it. It shouldn't be so hard to accept. Nobody is all freaked over the revelation of water on one of Saturn's moons. What's up with the disbelief, and why is it so hard to say to Shane (despite his pictures) "good call, guy".

                                                    What I wasn't seeing was logical debate. While I agree that the pics that Shane posts are not always even starting to be decipherable, and that much of what I see in them is the same as I see weekly walking through desert terrains, he was right that water is there. What I am seeing is disbelief in the findings of an organization that everyone was purporting until now was the expert.

                                                    My question - that I really don't feel like being called insane for asking, but I'm the WF so am expecting it:
                                                    NASA has known about water for awhile now. They, and we all, have known there was frozen water on the surface for years now. The evidence for flow is also not news as I read it a few years back. Since the planet warms during the summer, all they needed was the proof - which they got from comparing pics of areas in different seasons. Again - not completely new research. And instead of just making the announcement - they made the announcement that they were going to make an announcement. Why?

                                                    Did they time this announcement to purposely divert attention from Putin's UN speech on the same day? How many here even knew that Putin was making a very important speech that day?
                                                    When the pics of the actual shadowing of the water flow are at least a few years old, and the knowledge of water ice at the surface is as well, what I find suspicious, is not the announcement of water, it's the timing of the announcement. Guess the Kardashian's weren't quite big enough to divert people from that one.
                                                    Thank you again Sal, yes l was a bit condescending with my comebacks, but as you said some here, laid on the rebuttels with a earth mover, so l got a bit back this time.

                                                    Yes, l find it weird also, it has been proven that an ocean much bigger than Earths is on one of Saturns moons. It could even be fresh water. So are things alive in one of Saturn moons near active gysers, most likely!

                                                    But on Mars, the skeptics go into, rant and rave mode, or get all emotional and dump, dodgy logic all over it, hoping that it will stick?

                                                    I suppose it is because it might lead to their strongest beliefs getting clobbered.

                                                    After all, water on mars, life, intelligent life there now, people who believe in UFO, weren't nutters, and worse still god might get a mention.

                                                    I would say that all skeptical, atheists, would go for the tactical nuke first and ask questions later?


                                                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                                    Cognitive science actually shows why this is true. My ebook "Building the Illusions" actually covers that issue quite well. If you study the work of of Barnard J. Baar and Stan Franklin (The Neurosciences Institute and Institute for Intelligent Systems), you'll understand the process of belief a lot better. Their work covers a lot regarding how memory, sensory, and reasoning departments work together to build our perceptions of everything

                                                    It still just baffles me what people not actually formally educated in logic consider to be logical. They understand a few logical fallacies usually, but don't understand how premises break down and follow from others in a true/false/valid/invalid construction making for a valid or invalid argument.

                                                    This is the type of education that was taken out of our school systems, too - why? I seriously do not understand why logic isn't a required course in our schools now. Without it there is no real ability to figure out when we're being fed crap or reality. Probably a major part of our whole social problem right now.

                                                    As far as water on Mars - I'm not even understanding why people find this such an unbelievable revelation.
                                                    Well the above, but maybe being a control freak also.

                                                    You know, the "I am perfect, everything l say is right, l am totally in control of my life" sort of person, eventhough they are not in control, and are not right all the time, and when they stuff up, they forget about it, or twist it so they still seem right!

                                                    It seems that some of that is going on here?

                                                    I just want to find the truth!

                                                    But the truth can be scary and topple long cherished thought forms. So unfortunately emotional logic takes over!

                                                    Or two way conversations aren't possible. One seeks the truth and one, wants to be right!


                                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                    I want to tell you the story of The Toads Of The Mojave Desert.

                                                    Once upon a time, there was a man named ....um Ralph.

                                                    Ralph started a thread about the Toads Of The Mojave Desert. In his thread, he told us that the Mojave desert was a haven for killer mutant alien toads. They had their secret lair, in the middle of the Mojave desert.

                                                    These alien toads were invading our planet. They were raping and impregnating our women. Ralph told us about how the toads communicated by telepathy, and traveled by using the sixth dimension and hyper space.....and quantum physics.

                                                    We found out, through Ralph, that NASA was keeping all this a secret........ about the killer alien telepathic rapist toads of the Mojave desert.

                                                    Ralph, even had a thread with hundreds of photos of the Mojave desert, where he pointed to rocks, describing how these were really invisible cyborg soldier toads, leading a toad army to devour our planet.

                                                    The peaceful people of Earth, kept trying to convince Ralph, that there probably weren't killer intelligent cyborg mutant toads in the Mojave desert, and NASA probably wasn't behind a plot to destroy Earth, and then serve their new mutant toad overlords.

                                                    This made Ralph very angry.

                                                    One day, NASA reveals that they have actually discovered a toad, in hibernation, just below the surface of the sand......in the Mojave desert. NASA , and most other people, already knew that there were toads in the Mojave desert, just not hibernating under the surface of the sand. So...the fact that one was still alive, was news.


                                                    And because the words Mohave and Toad were in that announcement.....Ralph is vindicated. "I told you so!" he cheered.

                                                    And within a year, the planet was destroyed by mutant alien cyborg rapist telepathic monster desert toads.

                                                    And Ralph couldn't be happier.

                                                    The End.
                                                    Look out your window Claude the men in the white suits are here to help, the straight jacket, and cattle prod, are there for contractual reasons only?

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                                                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                    NASA killed everyone that produced the videos that would definitely prove that killer mutant toads are invading Earth. And the real sources still alive, went underground....or are possessed by toads.

                                                    All I can find right now are actual science videos. But with a little LSD and sleep deprivation, I'm sure I can cobble something together.

                                                    Oh for cripes sakes, relax. Everyone knows that's insane. The toads can't just out and kill you. You have to lick them.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                                      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                                      Oh for cripes sakes, relax. Everyone knows that's insane. The toads can't just out and kill you. You have to lick them.
                                                      They are shape shifting toads and have chameleon skin properties and able to put out different odors. Coupled with there psychic powers and mind reading they know exactly what to appear as to people to get them to lick.

                                                      To us, the obvious one for Claude would be a chocolate covered doughnut, but when they read his mind.....
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                                    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                      Yes.

                                      And that's why conversations have to take place before the person has accepted a reality. It's why we believe the most ridiculous things. (I'm including myself)

                                      The rule is; The first person to get to a new mind....wins.

                                      I have estimated, after careful consideration, that 70% of everything I completely believe to be true...simply isn't. I'm serious.

                                      But I am working on it.
                                      A sad fact. About half the stuff I was taught in school ... has since been proven to be wrong.
                                      Wrap your mind around THAT. Kids being taught wrong information.

                                      My guess, every new generation has had the same issue...

                                      Want a good laugh? Read some vintage school books or encyclopedias.
                                      Biased, bigoted, racist, full of propaganda and just plain wrong information.
                                      You will belly laugh for hours.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                                        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                                        Want a good laugh? Read some vintage school books or encyclopedias.
                                        Biased, bigoted, racist, full of propaganda and just plain wrong information.
                                        You will belly laugh for hours.
                                        I really don't appreciate your tone in regards to the Good 'Ol Days, Michaels.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                                        A sad fact. About half the stuff I was taught in school ... has since been proven to be wrong.
                                        Wrap your mind around THAT. Kids being taught wrong information.

                                        My guess, every generation has had the same issue...

                                        Want a good laugh? Read some old school books or encyclopedias.
                                        Biased, bigoted, racist, propaganda and just plain wrong.
                                        You will belly laugh for hours.

                                        I've done that.

                                        My favorite is a 1950 book on how to be a good wife. But I'm more talking about what we believe to be real. How we believe the world works. How we think business works.

                                        In 100 years, I wonder how they will see us today?
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                                        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                          I've done that.

                                          My favorite is a 1950 book on how to be a good wife. But I'm more talking about what we believe to be real. How we believe the world works. How we think business works.

                                          In 100 years, I wonder how they will see us today?
                                          It all stems from somewhere. I think the "beliefs" start with family then school then friends and then the media.

                                          ...and the biggest joke of all, just about everyone is wrong about everything.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                        Banned
                                        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                                        A sad fact. About half the stuff I was taught in school ... has since been proven to be wrong.
                                        Wrap your mind around THAT. Kids being taught wrong information.
                                        A hippie teacher told me there were no airplanes in WW1.

                                        I went up to her and punched her in the vagina

                                        Oh no wait that was in college, sorry. doesn't apply.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                                          Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                          A hippie teacher told me there were no airplanes in WW1.

                                          I went up to her and punched her in the vagina

                                          Oh no wait that was in college, sorry. doesn't apply.


                                          Every university has at least one of those.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                    Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                                    That's why I never talk politics
                                    That's why I never talk religion
                                    That's why I never talk to my x wife.

                                    To me it appears once most people get a idea in there head ... that's it.
                                    Game over. Every single piece of additional information is colored towards
                                    their existing belief. Anything outside of that belief is discounted or
                                    argued away with nonsense.

                                    It really doesn't really matter what the topic is.

                                    I think it takes special kind of person to say...shit, maybe I'm wrong. Teach me!
                                    Cognitive science actually shows why this is true. My ebook "Building the Illusions" actually covers that issue quite well. If you study the work of of Barnard J. Baar and Stan Franklin (The Neurosciences Institute and Institute for Intelligent Systems), you'll understand the process of belief a lot better. Their work covers a lot regarding how memory, sensory, and reasoning departments work together to build our perceptions of everything

                                    It still just baffles me what people not actually formally educated in logic consider to be logical. They understand a few logical fallacies usually, but don't understand how premises break down and follow from others in a true/false/valid/invalid construction making for a valid or invalid argument.

                                    This is the type of education that was taken out of our school systems, too - why? I seriously do not understand why logic isn't a required course in our schools now. Without it there is no real ability to figure out when we're being fed crap or reality. Probably a major part of our whole social problem right now.

                                    As far as water on Mars - I'm not even understanding why people find this such an unbelievable revelation.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                      Cognitive science actually shows why this is true. My ebook "Building the Illusions" actually covers that issue quite well. If you study the work of of Barnard J. Baar and Stan Franklin (The Neurosciences Institute and Institute for Intelligent Systems), you'll understand the process of belief a lot better. Their work covers a lot regarding how memory, sensory, and reasoning departments work together to build our perceptions of everything

                                      It still just baffles me what people not actually formally educated in logic consider to be logical. They understand a few logical fallacies usually, but don't understand how premises break down and follow from others in a true/false/valid/invalid construction making for a valid or invalid argument.

                                      This is the type of education that was taken out of our school systems, too - why? I seriously do not understand why logic isn't a required course in our schools now. Without it there is no real ability to figure out when we're being fed crap or reality. Probably a major part of our whole social problem right now.

                                      As far as water on Mars - I'm not even understanding why people find this such an unbelievable revelation.
                                      "Flowing" water on Mars may have been suspected but all they had were these disappearing and re-appearing dark patches. An anomaly. It was only when they could properly detect what they consisted of that they were able to make a conclusive announcement based on incontrovertible evidence. You, know, just your basic science stuff.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                        "Flowing" water on Mars may have been suspected but all they had were these disappearing and re-appearing dark patches. An anomaly. It was only when they could properly detect what they consisted of that they were able to make a conclusive announcement based on incontrovertible evidence. You, know, just your basic science stuff.
                                        Basically, that's what I am saying. Just basic stuff. Yes - they needed more proof before confirming what they "thought" was going on. Yet - some people seem to be just astounded to disbelief on the issue, and I can't imagine why the reaction is that strong. It's not like they just said they have an appointment for tea with one of the local residents there or something, ya know?

                                        I still am a little bit suspicious of the timing of the announcement, though. Seems very diversionary, to me. Especially considering the state of things going on in Syria and Putin's announcement, which people should have been very interested in hearing. They could have made the announcement sooner or later. They didn't need to usurp a globally important statement that diverted attention from such an important issue to make the announcement.
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            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Sorry. That's impossible. Everyone at NASA would have to know. Every supplier, every contractor...everyone working for every contractor....the people that built the lander, the rocket, the people tracking the path of the Mars mission.

              The people that bought the fuel for the rocket, the people designing and building the guidance system, Literally tens of thousand of people would have to be quiet....would have to be OK with fraud....lying to everyone they know.

              In fact, it would probably be easier and cheaper, just to send the rover to Mars, than to fake the whole thing. There have been similar videos by people saying the Moon landing was fake. It's simply cheaper to do the real thing, than to cover up a lie as massive as that.

              The fuel was really put in a real rocket. Everything that was built, by thousands of different contractors, actually does what it's supposed to. If it was all a fake, it was a stupid fake, because everything was designed, built, tested, inspected, approved, shipped, assembled, launched and paid for, as though it really happened. And if we really sent a Rover to Mars, that means there isn't a reason for a massive, international coverup.





              The fact that the vast majority of humans believe things at least as ridiculous as this, makes me yearn for the sweet nebulous quiet embrace of eternal oblivion.
              The thing about this is that it's anti the conspiracy theories that have been and are being talked about. All this stuff where people zoom in on features on the rather scant amount of photo's and info Nasa releases only to find them blurred could be them blotting out Earthly features. There being a colored sky of any sort beggars disbelief, let alone a sometimes a blue one which is a color due to the presence of oxygen. The tinting of the photo's that NASA have obviously done (no question) also I find disturbing, why? Having watched the program I scrutinized some photo's and thought, that looks exactly like an Earth sky that's been tinted.

              I still would ask you to watch it if you get the chance. But here are some main points anyway. The twin rovers are about the size of powered chairs. That means to move they would need about 6 kilowatts of power to function ( I'm guessing here not having seen it in a while but the power ratio is right) The solar array on these machines are capable of producing about one and coupled with that the weaker sunlight because of the distance means they would take a long time to charge the rover but even when it did, was it enough to power it?

              Next we come to the amazing gust of wind that inexplicably blew all the dust that was on the solar panels (the only source of power) of one of the Rovers and without that happening it would have died. (this explanation was well documented when announced) So, would the dust have not have come back and why did the same thing not happen to the other rover, I suppose it had experimental dust/sand repellent They produced a photo that the rover took of itself showing the panels, nooks and crannies, screw surrounds all scrupulously clean like it had just been polished. Great winds they have there to do such a thorough job.

              Next you can stare in disbelief at photos of the 2 landscape's of the remote locations used to test out the rover prototypes. Reddish sandy soil, strewn rubble and hills of layered strata exactly resembling those allegedly taken on Mars. That's another thing, so much rubble and uneven surfaces to be able to land a craft on remotely without it toppling over.

              What we also see is one of those photo's that a Mars pic scrutinizer has found which appear to show fossilized bones embedded in the ground and compare it with a fossil of a terrestrial seal (or something) Uncanny match.

              Dare I venture, they might just not be able to do it yet?

              I'm not saying that NASA is not capable of sending robot craft to flyby, orbit and and photograph other worlds. Perhaps drop a static probe even. I think in this episode (perhaps not) they scrutinized the Camera that was used to film on the moon saying that it was impossible due to the harsh temps and they would get blank footage. So they may have visited the moon but filmed and used at least some of the footage on a soundstage here for the punters.

              I really hope that this is all one hundred percent bona-fide real and my head scratching is unfounded. I want it to be so as much as you do. If it turns out to be a fake or part fake though I want to know and be the first to congratulate Shane on his detection skills (if for the wrong reason)

              The final question, why would they do this charade anyway?. prestige, pride, to keep funding and interest, a distraction to keep the public occupied.

              One thought on that, the Earth has finite resources, the Solar System has unlimited material for mining as long as we get the transport costs down. Perhaps that's a huge factor.
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          It's the only way I can feel like a real man.
          Just remember that feeling like one doesn't mean you actually are one. :-)

          Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author HN
    Banned
    Why bother to argue if the only way to find out is to visit Mars yourself?

    You mean that all the people with telescopes, everyone that analyzes the data, is lying?
    I have a telescope. Tell me what data do I have to collect and analyze and how can I calculate the pressure based on the data gathered with my telescope? And how can I verify that the calculation is going to produce accurate results?
    Or simply exclude me from the "all the people with telescopes" group.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      No, Shane. I mean every scientist on the planet...in every country. They all agree on what's on Mars. They all see the same thing. So, they are all under the evil influence of NASA?

      Concentrate. Think.
      Not all!

      Originally Posted by HN View Post

      Why bother to argue if the only way to find out is to visit Mars yourself?



      I have a telescope. Tell me what data do I have to collect and analyze and how can I calculate the pressure based on the data gathered with my telescope? And how can I verify that the calculation is going to produce accurate results?
      Or simply exclude me from the "all the people with telescopes" group.
      You should be seeing this, textbook example.



      Not this, common sense example. (found in 1997 textbooks).



      This was taken with hubble, go and scour the internet for official NASA sites, and l can guarantee you this image won't be there!



      But we know by now, that Mars has blue skys.

      Someone with a small telescope, pointed at Mars when it is close will see similar features, albeit more fuzzy!

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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Things look quiet on Mars (like the first 40 secs of this cut) but for all we know, there could be a serious party going on...


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  • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
    What a neat and tidy place the world would be if all those conspiracy theories were true.

    Reptilian aliens lyin' low inside every grandmother, US Government in cahoots with Satan, AIDS concocted by scientists, Sarah Palin's Whooshee pipe fitted with nukes — yeah, you'd know where you were in that kinda world.

    Instead, we got a whole bunch of random, conspiring to spill out and billow like blood from a slashed wrist in a bathtub of hot water.

    Anyways, back to the Red Planet...
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Something to think about. Finding liquid water on Mars increases dramatically the possibility of microbial life there. But it also increase the probability that liquid water is more common on other planets, even ones that are inhospitable.

      So, another hint that life, at least simple life, may be pretty common.

      But we have a very favorable Sun for life on its planets.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Actually it is a bit different than saying eg., the blue pagadonian plant on Earth has pink spots. People will either accept that or can go and look for themselves. It can be verified many times over.

        Apart from our telescope and spectrometer readings of Mars from the Earth or Earth orbit we are relying entirely on one Agency, one organization to give us accurate information about the surface of Mars and it's conditions. Our accurate knowlege relies entirely on there honesty and transparency.

        Question, are the transmissions from the Rovers and the orbiters available for anyone to receive a raw stream of data. Just wondering?
        No, you probably need special equipment, and no doubt the really sensitive info, would be encrypted?

        Other countries, LOL, they all work together!

        And, yes, the military run NASA, which pretty much sums up the hide the truth issue.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        No idea. That's not what I was talking about. Before the actual Mars missions, we knew as much about Mars as every other astronomer, looking out of other telescopes, in other countries. I didn't mean that they all flew their own independent missions to Mars. I meant they contributed technology, information, and expertise toward the missions NASA sent.

        Before the Mars probes were sent, we already knew nearly everything we know now. We already knew the atmosphere, what it was made of, what the temperatures were...the probes give us clearer pictures. The "water on Mars" thing is new though.

        Don't know. I'm sure it's easy to find out though, if you were really interested.

        In every discussion, eventually it gets detailed enough for one side to start saying, "I don't know". I think we are about there.

        You have no idea how draining these exchanges are (mostly between Shane and me). There is no way to logic my way around. It's like wrestling with wind.

        My brother was schizophrenic. Much of this thread reminds me of conversations I'd have with him.
        Draining, LOL, here is a bit more....

        Just because most or all believe in something doesn't make it right! it just means a lot of people believe in it!

        In this thread, Robin argues that "every scientist and intelligent person for thousands of years had known that heavier than air flight was possible since it was an observable, inescapable fact." However, according to -- http://technology.newscientist.com/c...ref=specrt15_p --

        "The number of scientists and engineers who confidently stated that heavier-than-air flight was impossible in the run-up to the Wright brothers' flight is too large to count. Lord Kelvin is probably the best-known. In 1895 he stated that 'heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible', only to be proved definitively wrong just eight years later."

        Further, as late as January 1905 -- more than a year after the Wright Brothers' historic first flight -- Scientific American magazine expressed skepticism about whether they had flown. An article titled "The Wright Aeroplane and its Fabled Performance" states: "If such sensational and tremendously important experiments are being conducted in a not very remote part of the country, on a subject in which almost everybody feels the most profound interest, is it possible to believe that the enterprising American reporter, who, it is well known, comes down the chimney when the door is locked in his face--even if he has to scale a fifteen-story sky-scraper to do so-- would not have ascertained all about them and published them broadcast long ago?" See http://invention.psychology.msstate....ightSiAm1.html

        So, prior to the Wright Brothers flights being confirmed as fact, how many well-known scientists and engineers questioned whether heavier than air flying machines were possible?
        This was taken from this forum.

        Scientists and Engineers Who Thought Heavier Than Air Flying Machines Were Impossible - International Skeptics Forum

        Yep, history repeats itself. The martian air pressure idea, is so full of holes, that we will probably be repeating this scenaro in 2020, when the third party rover touches down!

        NASA will say that it is a tech, fault of course.

        Following the herd might be comfortable, but if the herd goes off a cliff, not so comfortable?

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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Something to think about. Finding liquid water on Mars increases dramatically the possibility of microbial life there. But it also increase the probability that liquid water is more common on other planets, even ones that are inhospitable.

        So, another hint that life, at least simple life, may be pretty common.

        But we have a very favorable Sun for life on its planets.
        This was one of my initial thoughts as well. If we find life right next to us, it would seem to indicate that life may not be all that rare in other places throughout the Universe.


        Another interesting question, assuming we find life, is did life on Earth and Mars originate independently, or was there a common source for life on both planets?


        Also, finding water on Mars has major implications for us living on Mars, meaning we won't need to take water with us.
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Another interesting question, assuming we find life, is did life on Earth and Mars originate independently, or was there a common source for life on both planets?
          A very good question. Also, if there was a common source, is it also present on the other planets in our solar system, or even beyond that.


          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          AAlso, finding water on Mars has major implications for us living on Mars, meaning we won't need to take water with us.
          From what I've been hearing, the water might not be used for drinking purposes, but may be used as a fuel source after separating the hydrogen and oxygen molecules.

          Anyway, we're still a fair way off sending people there yet so any possible usages of the water are still highly speculative.
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            Shane,

            You keep bringing up the Wright Brothers as to support your hypotheses about life on other planets. This is known as a "straw man" argument. It adds nothing to your claims.
            Well, l thought that it would cast doubt with Claudes reasoning that if most people believe in something then it is true?

            It was only recent (at the time) increases in knowledge of aerodynamics, as well as developments in the internal combustion engine that made flight possible. Prior to these developments heavier than air flight WAS impossible.
            Ok, it was possible after those developments, but the majority still believed it wasn't possible!


            Also your claim that NASA is involved in some sort of cover up borders on the ludicrous. It is not in NASA's interests to keep any secrets.

            Ever since the moon landing, NASA has had it's funding gradually eroded. It is in their best interests to disclose as much as they know to make themselves as relevant as possible, therefore have their funding restored or even increased...

            To paraphrase your good self:
            LOL, well the 1957 report on what would happen to the US, if martains were announced, spooked NASA, so much so, they buried everything that Viking initially found!

            Then after that, they got spooked by, announcing the martian thing, and it leading to new and cheap ways of generating electricity. Probably through the long court case.

            And that would greatly affect oil stocks, ($100,000,000,000 in oil profits still in the ground) and could even crash the stock market!

            They would obviously pick the lesser of two evils!

            We will find out in the next 5 years!

            Paraphrase, LOL, l have done a lot of research into all of this.

            Maybe Curiosity drove past the stream 2 years ago, and thought that it was a rock?

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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Another interesting question, assuming we find life, is did life on Earth and Mars originate independently, or was there a common source for life on both planets?

          I'm not sure how we would find that out. But microbial life on asteroids would pretty much answer the question about life on other planets.

          We know that the conditions were perfect on Earth for life to start. Of course, that doesn't mean it didn't come from somewhere else.


          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          Anyway, we're still a fair way off sending people there yet so any possible usages of the water are still highly speculative.
          I know you already know how to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water.

          So, having drinking water (after lots of filtration, I'm sure) is probable, Oxygen for breathing, (and the Oxygen can then be scrubbed from the Carbon Dioxide we exhale), and Oxygen and Hydrogen for fuel.

          What we don't know is the quantity available, and if the water is highly localized or planet wide.

          To me, the speculative part is actually sending people there. It's a multi year trip, is almost certainly a one way trip, and is relying on methods we haven't invented yet.

          Space isn't a friendly place. And Mars isn't friendly either. Maybe we'll send someone there by 2030, but I'll be surprised if I see it. I'll also be surprised if I'm still alive.
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Perhap the Martians are there but on a dimensional plane we have yet to comprehend.

            On one episode of Star Trek - the one with Janeway as Captain, the aliens attacked the crew in their dreams.
            Janeway, you sure that it was Star Trek, might have been Stargate Atlantis?

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Good God..here we go.........
            Not sure if we should discuss that here, might drive the locals off a cliff, (lemming syndrome)?

            But yeah, higher dimensions, with them having easy access to ours, certainly puts the intelligent life on its head.

            Good to see that things have quieten down a bit, and that NASA was on my side for a change. It seems that l will have to wait a while to see how many other things l am right about!

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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

              Janeway, you sure that it was Star Trek, might have been Stargate Atlantis?



              Not sure if we should discuss that here, might drive the locals off a cliff, (lemming syndrome)?

              But yeah, higher dimensions, with them having easy access to ours, certainly puts the intelligent life on its head.

              Good to see that things have quieten down a bit, and that NASA was on my side for a change. It seems that l will have to wait a while to see how many other things l am right about!


              Yes, Captain Janeway was on Star Trek Voyager and not Stargate Atlantis.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I'm not sure how we would find that out. But microbial life on asteroids would pretty much answer the question about life on other planets.

            We know that the conditions were perfect on Earth for life to start. Of course, that doesn't mean it didn't come from somewhere else.

            I think the first question would be if the life has DNA. If so, then we may be able to determine if any life on Earth has an ancestor in common.


            If it doesn't have DNA, that would seem to indicate no relation to life on Earth.


            I know you already know how to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water.

            So, having drinking water (after lots of filtration, I'm sure) is probable, Oxygen for breathing, (and the Oxygen can then be scrubbed from the Carbon Dioxide we exhale), and Oxygen and Hydrogen for fuel.
            For drinking water, we'd need to desalinate it if it's all saltwater. However, if there's no life, would we need to filter it? In reality, a desalination process would effectively "filter" the water, assuming the life forms aren't substantially smaller than on Earth and would depend on the process used. Reverse osmosis or evaporation? Pasteurization if there is life in the water?
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              I think the first question would be if the life has DNA. If so, then we may be able to determine if any life on Earth has an ancestor in common.


              If it doesn't have DNA, that would seem to indicate no relation to life on Earth.



              For drinking water, we'd need to desalinate it if it's all saltwater. However, if there's no life, would we need to filter it? In reality, a desalination process would effectively "filter" the water, assuming the life forms aren't substantially smaller than on Earth and would depend on the process used. Reverse osmosis or evaporation? Pasteurization if there is life in the water?
              I said Filtration, but desalinization would be the first problem to solve.. Reverse Osmosis would be the cheap and sure way...filtering on a molecular level.

              You're right about the DNA. but the very earliest living cells didn't have DNA. Unfortunately, I can't remember how DNA got started. I know it came later.....but still when all life was single cell.

              You haven't mentioned time warps, higher dimensions, warp speed, worm holes, single point energy, string theory, quantum physics, perpetual motion, or eternal youth.

              I almost forgot where I was.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I said Filtration, but desalinization would be the first problem to solve.. Reverse Osmosis would be the cheap and sure way...filtering on a molecular level.

                You're right about the DNA. but the very earliest living cells didn't have DNA. Unfortunately, I can't remember how DNA got started. I know it came later.....but still when all life was single cell.

                You haven't mentioned time warps, higher dimensions, warp speed, worm holes, single point energy, string theory, quantum physics, perpetual motion, or eternal youth.

                I almost forgot where I was.
                I predict there will be life on Mars because doughnuts have holes. Then when they find life on Mars, I'll gloat and tell everyone that I was right about life on Mars because donuts have holes.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  I predict there will be life on Mars because doughnuts have holes. Then when they find life on Mars, I'll gloat and tell everyone that I was right about life on Mars because donuts have holes.
                  I've seen a picture of a donut hole, so this must be true.
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                  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                    Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                    I've seen a picture of a donut hole, so this must be true.
                    Me too. It was on an episode of Star Trek. That constitutes proof beyond all reasonable doubt.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                    I've seen a picture of a donut hole, so this must be true.
                    I bet you were holding that picture with just one hand.
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                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  I predict there will be life on Mars because doughnuts have holes. Then when they find life on Mars, I'll gloat and tell everyone that I was right about life on Mars because donuts have holes.
                  Claude buy's so many dounuts that even with his appetite he takes days to get through them, so they end up having Worm Holes.

                  Now this is interesting, here is a picture of Matt Damon on the surface of Mars (From the film, the Martian) with a blue sky behind him. It would appear that the people at Hollywood have taken on board this and are no longer tinting their studio shots bright red or pink. Also notice a more salmon colored landscape.

                  The Martian: A 'love letter to science' - BBC News
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Shane,

    You keep bringing up the Wright Brothers as to support your hypotheses about life on other planets. This is known as a "straw man" argument. It adds nothing to your claims.

    It was only recent (at the time) increases in knowledge of aerodynamics, as well as developments in the internal combustion engine that made flight possible. Prior to these developments heavier than air flight WAS impossible.

    Also your claim that NASA is involved in some sort of cover up borders on the ludicrous. It is not in NASA's interests to keep any secrets.

    Ever since the moon landing, NASA has had it's funding gradually eroded. It is in their best interests to disclose as much as they know to make themselves as relevant as possible, therefore have their funding restored or even increased...

    To paraphrase your good self:

    l use common sense, deductive reasoning and piece together other compelling evidence, to arrive at a conclusion that makes sense.,
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Perhap the Martians are there but on a dimensional plane we have yet to comprehend.

    On one episode of Star Trek - the one with Janeway as Captain, the aliens attacked the crew in their dreams.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Perhap the Martians are there but on a dimensional plane we have yet to comprehend.

      On one episode of Star Trek - the one with Janeway as Captain, the aliens attacked the crew in their dreams.
      Good God..here we go.........
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Good God..here we go.........
        Good God? Good God, Claude? Even with God capitalized?

        You're slippin' Baby.


        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          Good God? Good God, Claude? Even with God capitalized?

          You're slippin' Baby.


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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          Good God? Good God, Claude? Even with God capitalized?

          You're slippin' Baby.


          Terra
          Terra, My Dearest;

          It's an expression. And to use a lower case G would be disrespectful, in my opinion.

          You may be interested to know that some of my favorite music is inspirational religious music, and Christmas music. The Theme music at the end of The DaVinci Code made me weep. I may not be a believer, but that doesn't mean I'm not moved by the majesty of the universe.....and music by Hans Zimmer.

          Try watching this, and not be swept away.

          I'm glad you're back. You make the Forum more fun to visit.
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Terra, My Dearest;

            It's an expression. And to use a lower case G would be disrespectful, in my opinion.

            You may be interested to know that some of my favorite music is inspirational religious music, and Christmas music. The Theme music at the end of The DaVinci Code made me weep. I may not be a believer, but that doesn't mean I'm not moved by the majesty of the universe.....and music by Hans Zimmer.

            I'm glad you're back. You make the Forum more fun to visit.
            Haha!

            The things one must do just to get a certain person willing to talk to them, lol!

            I missed you too. Let's have some fun!


            Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Perhap the Martians are there but on a dimensional plane we have yet to comprehend.

      On one episode of Star Trek - the one with Janeway as Captain, the aliens attacked the crew in their dreams.
      Yes. yes. I agree. It is a strong possibility.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Shane, Kurt - I meant that Shane is right about water. After seeing some of the things that were said to him over the years when he insisted - I think he deserves a little bit of "I told you so". It astounds me how hard that is for a few people in here to say "way to go" to him. This revelation isn't that baffling that anyone should be having cognitive dissonance over it. It shouldn't be so hard to accept. Nobody is all freaked over the revelation of water on one of Saturn's moons. What's up with the disbelief, and why is it so hard to say to Shane (despite his pictures) "good call, guy".

    What I wasn't seeing was logical debate. While I agree that the pics that Shane posts are not always even starting to be decipherable, and that much of what I see in them is the same as I see weekly walking through desert terrains, he was right that water is there. What I am seeing is disbelief in the findings of an organization that everyone was purporting until now was the expert.

    My question - that I really don't feel like being called insane for asking, but I'm the WF so am expecting it:
    NASA has known about water for awhile now. They, and we all, have known there was frozen water on the surface for years now. The evidence for flow is also not news as I read it a few years back. Since the planet warms during the summer, all they needed was the proof - which they got from comparing pics of areas in different seasons. Again - not completely new research. And instead of just making the announcement - they made the announcement that they were going to make an announcement. Why?

    Did they time this announcement to purposely divert attention from Putin's UN speech on the same day? How many here even knew that Putin was making a very important speech that day?
    When the pics of the actual shadowing of the water flow are at least a few years old, and the knowledge of water ice at the surface is as well, what I find suspicious, is not the announcement of water, it's the timing of the announcement. Guess the Kardashian's weren't quite big enough to divert people from that one.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    As always, First Dog On The Moon puts things in perspective:

    Mars water: will it be contaminated by Earth cooties?
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  • Profile picture of the author ConfusedJ
    A yawn-worthy revelation about water . . .

    Apparently, these science illiterates believe that water on a planet makes life a forgone conclusion, or near to it. I suggest they spend less time on over-hyped press releases, and more time studying biology, cosmology, and probability.

    Start by taking a gander at Hugh Ross' list of factors required to support life: Probability Estimate for Attaining the Necessary Characteristics for a Life Support Body


    --Mr. J
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by ConfusedJ View Post

      I suggest they spend less time on over-hyped press releases, and more time studying biology, cosmology, and probability.
      Such as, say for example, studying the water on Mars

      Originally Posted by ConfusedJ View Post

      Start by taking a gander at Hugh Ross' list of factors required to support life: Probability Estimate for Attaining the Necessary Characteristics for a Life Support Body--Mr. J
      Oh dear. Shame is not going to be happy with yjat.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by ConfusedJ View Post

        A yawn-worthy revelation about water . . .

        Apparently, these science illiterates believe that water on a planet makes life a forgone conclusion, or near to it. I suggest they spend less time on over-hyped press releases, and more time studying biology, cosmology, and probability.

        Start by taking a gander at Hugh Ross' list of factors required to support life: Probability Estimate for Attaining the Necessary Characteristics for a Life Support Body


        --Mr. J
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Such as, say for example, studying the water on Mars


        Oh dear. Shane is not going to be happy with yjat.

        Nah, ConfusedJ, is self explanatory, and he is new, so we will give him some slack!

        Probability,...you should do some research on the death valley bacteria, that is frozen most of the year and comes to life for a few weeks.

        Go far enough underground, and martian bacteria swimming about is a sure thing!




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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          Go far enough underground, and martian bacteria swimming about is a sure thing!

          Based on insights you have, that nobody else on the planet has.
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