Screw finding your passion:

by HeySal
38 replies
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This is an awesome article. I decided to post it in the OT because reactions elsewhere in the forum would amount to anything between drool and total meltdown.

http://markmanson.net/passion
  • Yeh, this is drooly stuff.

    Saliva hangin' offa my lip like a frickin' bib.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    spot on. (Not spit on, btw. spot on.)
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    That was an amazing article. I enjoyed his writing so much, I read more of his blog. Very interesting and engaging.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      That was an amazing article. I enjoyed his writing so much, I read more of his blog. Very interesting and engaging.
      Me, too. I loved that article in particular.......but I also enjoyed his writing style so much. I have it bookmarked to read more whenever.

      I almost posted this in the Mind Forum -LMAO. I thought the reception would be less than friendly. And in the main forum I wasn't sure how many newbies could handle being told "if you don't know, how the f*** do I". LOVED that one.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Me, too. I loved that article in particular.......but I also enjoyed his writing style so much. I have it bookmarked to read more whenever.

        I almost posted this in the Mind Forum -LMAO. I thought the reception would be less than friendly. And in the main forum I wasn't sure how many newbies could handle being told "if you don't know, how the f*** do I". LOVED that one.
        I read this one too ... lol. Had to use bitly for the url because a word in the title would be filtered

        The Subtle Art of Not Giving a ****

        It was hilarious.

        WARNING: Uses the word fu*k 127 times in article
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    How can this make me $50,000 in 3 weeks?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Honest to God, I read the title as;


      Screw; Finding Your Passion.

      I was severely disappointed.
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      • Profile picture of the author joe golfer
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Honest to God, I read the title as;


        Screw; Finding Your Passion.

        I was severely disappointed.
        I thought it was for vintage hardware collectors:

        Screw Finding -- Your Passion!
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      "As a kid, I would write short stories in my room for fun. As a teenager, I would write music reviews and essays about bands I loved and then show them to nobody. Once the internet came around, I spent hours upon hours on forums writing multi-page posts about inane topics - everything from guitar pickups to the causes of the Iraq War.

      I never considered writing as a potential career. I never even considered it a hobby or passion. To me, the things I wrote about were my passion: music, politics, philosophy. Writing was just something I did because I felt like it.

      And when I had to go looking for a career I could fall in love with, I didn't have to look far. In fact, I didn't have to look at all. It chose me, in a way. It was already there. Already something I was doing every day, since I was a kid, without even thinking about it."
      "Screw finding your passion"

      Says the successful blogger who spent his youth in his room writing essays for fun.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    LOL "If you don’t have any idea what to do with yourself, what makes you think some jackass with a website would?"

    People often do accidentally discover their "passion." That said, it took me a while to assimilate the word the way it is so frequently used nowadays. Passion is what I felt for Carmen, the hot girl in high school when my hormones were running high, not for stamp collecting or something (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    If'n you ever need to get a point across, the F words makes it incredibly easy. ;D

    Great reads, thanks ya'll.
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  • Tellya, somea these articles are so good the guy could cut out everything but the Fs an' still make more sense than the sqky cleaner gurus out there.
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by perryny View Post

        I don't know why you guys find this article so great. I find it lazy and inconsiderate.

        How can a guy who admits he was born with a passion for writing and then effortlessly turned that passion into a lucrative career in writing, tell everyone else that looking for their own passion is a waste of time?

        We were all born with an internal desire to do something like write articles or design logos?

        What a hypocritical prick.
        I thought he made legitimate points and shared some good food for thought. How was he being hypocritical? Did he go on a Holy Grail mission to the ends of the Earth before figuring out that he really really likes writing?

        He was pointing out that people more often than not already engage in their passion whether or nor they are aware of it. It is like seeking beauty when it is probably right in front of your face. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.
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        • Profile picture of the author perryny
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          He was pointing out that people more often than not already engage in their passion whether or nor they are aware of it. It is like seeking beauty when it is probably right in front of your face. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.
          He points out that his buddy loves doing logo design, but is too blind or stupid to realize he should be doing this for a living.

          That's his one and only example.

          He also points out that while he was a kid, hiding in his room writing essays for fun, everyone else was out playing football, playing in the playground or hunting for bugs.

          He discovered a passion for a marketable skill early on, and followed it to a successful career.

          What's his advice to all those kids who weren't so lucky to find themselves with a similar, marketable passion?

          Try to find a job where they let you play video games for a living?
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by perryny View Post

            <snip>

            What's his advice to all those kids who weren't so lucky to find themselves with a similar, marketable passion?

            Try to find a job where they let you play video games for a living?
            Why should he have advice for them? When you give advice, does it apply to every individual?>

            That said, a number of video game aficionados do, indeed, make a living at it.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Originally Posted by perryny View Post

            He discovered a passion for a marketable skill early on, and followed it to a successful career.

            What's his advice to all those kids who weren't so lucky to find themselves with a similar, marketable passion?

            Try to find a job where they let you play video games for a living?
            He pointed out that he wasn't a mind reader and didn't have a clue what "your" passion would be. It was not the purpose of the article to give you a blueprint to follow. I know everyone wants a blueprint. He also pointed out that finding your passion didn't necessarily equate to that passion being what you do for a living. Did you miss that? It could be a hobby.

            His point was that your passion is most likely already within you and you are ignoring it, or you may not have tried enough things to find it yet.

            So, if you were looking for a step by step manual, you sort of missed the point of his article.
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            • Profile picture of the author perryny
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              He also pointed out that finding your passion didn't necessarily equate to that passion being what you do for a living. Did you miss that? It could be a hobby.
              He does equate passion to what you do for a living. He gets 11,504 emails a year from people asking what they should do with their lives. I doubt their bothering him for ideas for fun things to do in their spare time.

              He asks the guy who likes comic books if he's ever tried making money with it.

              He's not talking about hobbies. He's talking about big life choices.

              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              His point was that your passion is most likely already within you and you are ignoring it, or you may not have tried enough things to find it yet.
              I agree, most of us do have a passion within us. He likes to write essays. That's a good passion to not ignore.

              I like to play video games. A lot. Probably as much as this guy likes writing essays on philosophy. But video games is also not something I want to do for a living, and probably one I should ignore more often and find something more productive to replace it with.

              But he doesn't say to find something else to replace it with. He doesn't say I haven't tried enough things yet. He says, "If you have to look for what you enjoy in life, then you’re not going to enjoy anything."

              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              So, if you were looking for a step by step manual, you sort of missed the point of his article.
              I wasn't looking for any manual. I was looking to hear a good argument for why passion isn't a necessary component for success.

              Instead, I read that not only is passion necessary, but you've got to be lucky enough to be born with it. Because if you don't have a passion for something useful, you're not going to find it.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                He does equate passion to what you do for a living. He gets 11,504 emails a year from people asking what they should do with their lives. I doubt their bothering him for ideas for fun things to do in their spare time.

                He asks the guy who likes comic books if he's ever tried making money with it.

                He's not talking about hobbies. He's talking about big life choices.
                And even then, who says you need to make money doing what you love? Since when does everyone feel entitled to love every ******* second of their job? Really, what is so wrong with working an OK normal job with some cool people you like, and then pursuing your passion in your free time on the side? Has the world turned upside-down or is this not suddenly a novel idea to people?
                Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                I wasn't looking for any manual. I was looking to hear a good argument for why passion isn't a necessary component for success.

                Instead, I read that not only is passion necessary, but you've got to be lucky enough to be born with it. Because if you don't have a passion for something useful, you're not going to find it.
                Aren't you the one who started the other big passion thread? Didn't you get your answers there? Of course you don't have to have passion to be successful, but it sure does help. It's the difference between putting a lot of energy into something that you really love and putting that energy into something you're not crazy about. One is a lot harder than the other.

                I said it in the other thread ... if you feel like you don't have a passion for anything at all, you simply haven't done enough things. You seem very young to me. I didn't find the things that I am passionate about when I was real young. It developed over time. I needed time to do a lot of different things to find out what I liked and what I didn't like. It's not just going to hit you like a flash of lightning. It will come after experience.

                I imagine that there are people who never find it. I don't know if it's not in them, or they're ignoring it and not acknowledging and developing it. Hard for me to believe that there is anyone who doesn't have something that they really love doing, whether it is their career or hobby.
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              • Profile picture of the author agc
                Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                Instead, I read that not only is passion necessary, but you've got to be lucky enough to be born with it. Because if you don't have a passion for something useful, you're not going to find it.
                Especially not if you've already decided you won't.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                He does equate passion to what you do for a living. He gets 11,504 emails a year from people asking what they should do with their lives. I doubt their bothering him for ideas for fun things to do in their spare time.

                He asks the guy who likes comic books if he's ever tried making money with it.

                He's not talking about hobbies. He's talking about big life choices.



                I agree, most of us do have a passion within us. He likes to write essays. That's a good passion to not ignore.

                I like to play video games. A lot. Probably as much as this guy likes writing essays on philosophy. But video games is also not something I want to do for a living, and probably one I should ignore more often and find something more productive to replace it with.

                But he doesn't say to find something else to replace it with. He doesn't say I haven't tried enough things yet. He says, "If you have to look for what you enjoy in life, then you’re not going to enjoy anything."



                I wasn't looking for any manual. I was looking to hear a good argument for why passion isn't a necessary component for success.

                Instead, I read that not only is passion necessary, but you've got to be lucky enough to be born with it. Because if you don't have a passion for something useful, you're not going to find it.
                I have a feeling you wouldn't "get" what was being said here if someone came up and tattooed it on your forehead. You also completely ignored my comments on the OP.

                It's this kind of thick inane and purposeful missing the point that was my reason for posting it in the OT instead of the Main forum.

                You are soooooooo proving his point here. Look straight at something and not see it. Go read it again - this time, with some reading comprehension instead of the prerehersed whine.
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                Sal
                When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                Beyond the Path

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                • Profile picture of the author perryny
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                  • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                    Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                    Sorry I didn't like your shitty article.
                    Reported.

                    Another word wizard (not) bites the dust.
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                  • Profile picture of the author agc
                    Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                    Sorry I didn't like your shitty article.
                    Perhaps screwing your passion was too advanced a place to start. Maybe you should start here instead: 5 Things That Should Be Taught in Every School
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                    One man's terrorist is another man's patriot

                    Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground - Frederick Douglas

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                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                    Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                    Sorry I didn't like your shitty article.
                    Really don't give a rat if you "like" it or not. I put it in this forum because there are intellectual people here that would enjoy it -- even if they didn't agree - to avoid trolls that are on "automatic" for whining about anything that makes sense if they don't like it. You brought not one good point to the table. Of course, you didn't have the reading comprehension to understand it........so...........

                    1. Yes, he is making a living doing what he is passionate about - very accidentally. He was doing what he had passion for because he had passion for it. Making money at it came accidentally while he was doing it.

                    2. People whine at everyone else about "finding their passion" yet nobody can tell you what that is. It's right in front of you. People do what they like and eschew what they don't (oops, I forgot, no reading comprehension - they avoid what they don't like). So........whining to everyone else about it is stupidity.

                    3. If you can't manage your life well enough to figure it out - stop expecting everyone else to be able to.

                    4. You can't always make money at what you love - and you need to make money, so go make money and do what you are passionate about in your own time.

                    5. If you are so inane that you can't figure out what you love to do - just screw trying to find it. It's right there in front of you - grow a brain.
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                    Sal
                    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                      Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                      I don't know why you guys find this article so great. I find it lazy and inconsiderate.

                      How can a guy who admits he was born with a passion for writing and then effortlessly turned that passion into a lucrative career in writing, tell everyone else that looking for their own passion is a waste of time?

                      We were all born with an internal desire to do something like write articles or design logos?

                      What a hypocritical prick.
                      Hey you - back to the main discussion forum.
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                    • Profile picture of the author perryny
                      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                      Really don't give a rat if you "like" it or not. I put it in this forum because there are intellectual people here that would enjoy it -- even if they didn't agree - to avoid trolls that are on "automatic" for whining about anything that makes sense if they don't like it. You brought not one good point to the table. Of course, you didn't have the reading comprehension to understand it........so...........

                      1. Yes, he is making a living doing what he is passionate about - very accidentally. He was doing what he had passion for because he had passion for it. Making money at it came accidentally while he was doing it.

                      2. People whine at everyone else about "finding their passion" yet nobody can tell you what that is. It's right in front of you. People do what they like and eschew what they don't (oops, I forgot, no reading comprehension - they avoid what they don't like). So........whining to everyone else about it is stupidity.

                      3. If you can't manage your life well enough to figure it out - stop expecting everyone else to be able to.

                      4. You can't always make money at what you love - and you need to make money, so go make money and do what you are passionate about in your own time.

                      5. If you are so inane that you can't figure out what you love to do - just screw trying to find it. It's right there in front of you - grow a brain.
                      I know this is an old conversation. But I wasn't allowed to reply earlier, and now I actually have a point I can bring to the table.

                      I read your points, slowly and carefully, and I still disagree with a lot of what you say.

                      I don't believe there is anything accidental about the author making a living doing what he's passionate about.

                      I don't believe nobody can tell you what your passion is, or that someone can't help you find it, or give it to you.

                      And I don't believe that if you don't know what your passion is, you should screw trying to find it.

                      I do believe passion can be created.

                      My reasons for believing these things make very good sense to me. But they're just my beliefs. They mean nothing unless they're acted upon, and it's pointless to debate what's true or not true.

                      And if all I had were my beliefs, I would have kept them to myself and let the subject drop.

                      But I have something I'd like to share, because it's significant to me and I think it's pertinent to this discussion.

                      Back in the other thread I started, "Can passion be created?", somewhere early on in the discussion I decided I got my answer. I decided that if you want to achieve something big, you need both will power and passion.

                      I originally posted my question when I was in a place of frustraion and anger and sadness.

                      I want to achieve big things. I know to some of you this makes me sound very young, but that's probably because I've wanted to achieve the same big things since I was very young, so they are the big dreams of a young man.

                      But I'm not so young anymore, and the dreams are still there, and I want them as much as I ever did. More so.

                      About fourteen months ago, I made a decision to build the business I've wanted to for a long time, and achieve the goals I know I'm capable of.

                      I've tried this before and failed, so this time I decided to proceed with help. I reached out to someone on this forum who I knew could help me, and I asked for his guidance.

                      I've had to convince him to take me on, because I've already failed him once in the past. I joined a program of his, he gave me an assignment and I didn't do it. I wasted my time and his, and he let me know it.

                      But I assured him this time was different. This time, I have the time, the financial resources, and the dedication to make my project a success.

                      He gave me his offer, his terms, his fee and I accepted, and he accepted.

                      He asked me how long I thought it would take for me to accomplish my goal. I said six months.

                      He gave me full access to his services for a full year.

                      We started in August 2014.

                      By October 2014, I was done.

                      I got off to a decent start, I put out a good report pretty quickly, got good feedback and started a list... and then when it came to creating a follow-up product... dead.

                      I knew what I needed to do. I had a plan and knew the next step. I just refused to do it.

                      Some days I sat with fingers on the keyboard for two hours straight, without putting a single usable line on the screen.

                      Some days, I refused to even try.

                      Sometimes I feel I'm just too lazy, sometimes I believe overall I really did try, sometimes I think I tried too hard, and sometimes I think I just set myself up with a task too hard for me to complete.

                      My task is to create a wireframe for an app I want to develop. Once I complete the wireframe, I can get feedback and then hand it off to a programmer. Creating the wireframe is the task I won't finish.

                      My teacher continued to check in with me for several months. I assured him I was working on it, which I was, but I never had anything useful to show.

                      I never quit. I worked on it on and off for the past 14 months. But I never came remotely close to completing this next phase of my project.

                      My desire for my big goals was still with me every day. And I knew that if I would just move my project forward, I'd be on my way to where I want to be.

                      But I just would not do the work at the level I needed to.

                      I was consiously forcing myself to fail.

                      It was frustrating and depressing.

                      I wanted to know why I had to force myself to work. Why I had to even remind myself to think about my project.

                      The article that's the topic of this thread... While I disagree with most of it, the author presented one question which I feel leads to the best definition of passion I've heard...

                      "Seriously, you're awake 16 hours a day, what the f*ck do you do with your time?"

                      I hope he realizes that some of us have jobs that aren't necessarily our passion, and families and obligations to others.

                      But for all the hours we have left over (I have lots), where we can focus on, and think about and work on or do whatever we want... if that time is spent on a singular focus, that to me is passion.

                      I saw that movie Whiplash, and I thought to myself, "If I had just a fraction of the level of passion for my project that this kid has for playing drums, it'd be literally impossible to fail."

                      So I came here and asked you guys, "Can passion be created?"

                      I'm glad I asked.

                      Because as I said earlier, somewhere around post #59 I think, I came to my conclusion that passion can be created and to do so you need iron will.

                      My belief is that if you want to become passionate about something, you need to have the will power to fill as many of your 16 hours a day with it as possible.

                      My belief is that the less passion you have, the more will power you need.

                      As you make progress and grow and get closer to whatever your goals are, your passion will grow.

                      The more passion grows, the less will power you need.

                      If will power burns out, passion won't take hold.

                      If passion doesn't take hold, will power will burn out.

                      You need both. I believe.

                      Back on Oct. 19, I realized it's easy enough to find out for myself if this is true or not.

                      I committed to thinking about my project as many of my 16 hours a day as possible. I committed to working on my project at least an hour a day, 7 days a week, until my wireframe is done. (I wasn't looking to break any speed records, I

                      just wanted to make sure I would keep at it every day - and committing to only an hour a day sounded doable enough.)

                      I slipped a few times - I took 3 1/2 days off, and some days the work I did I consider pretty useless...

                      But in just over three weeks, I did finish. I finished what I wouldn't finish for the past 14 months.

                      A year ago, I had at my disposal the full assistance of one of the most knowledgeable and experienced marketers on this forum, whenever I wanted, and I let that opportunity die.

                      I wasted my time and his, again, and made an embarassment of myself to a person I admire and respect.

                      I threw away considerable sum of money.

                      I caused myself frustration and doubt and anger and sadness for over a year.

                      But then, I slap the label "will power" onto what I think I'm missing, and I'm able to make progress far faster than I ever would have expected.

                      This gives me encouragement. And reason to believe I may be right about my belief that passion can be created.

                      I can't say I'm passionate about my project yet. I still have to remind myself to think about it, and I still need to force myself to get to work most times. But it's getting easier.

                      I have every reason to believe that if I keep this going at my current pace, the project will become real and passion will definitely grow.

                      I believe.

                      We shall see.
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              • Profile picture of the author @tjr
                Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                I was looking to hear a good argument for why passion isn't a necessary component for success.

                Instead, I read that not only is passion necessary, but you've got to be lucky enough to be born with it. Because if you don't have a passion for something useful, you're not going to find it.
                The author wrote to prove their thesis, not yours.

                Also, from an earlier post:

                Originally Posted by perryny View Post

                Try to find a job where they let you play video games for a living?
                https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBajanCanadian

                https://www.youtube.com/user/JeromeASF

                https://www.youtube.com/user/VanossGaming

                https://www.youtube.com/user/YourHeroes

                To name a few.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    so what happens if your passion is screwing
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by hardraysnight View Post

      so what happens if your passion is screwing
      Open a hardware store.
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  • On my heart,
    don't want my life wasted
    chasin' noneya alien passiondreams
    'cos my knuckles ghost out white
    on stoopid fightin' ya.

    Wanna lift life up right now, smack it onya.

    Guy here on my train is so cool an' so crazybeautiful an' he is swankin' on his honey all +

    Gotta love the roll on his eyes, wanna youchya.

    Flickin' on yummy from outta empty air.

    Yeh yeh wanna lick on there.

    Cool train, blow me out, swell me up on full.

    Or what do I do, jus' sit here?

    Hangin' by fingertips from some stoopid mountain not my own?

    I am too old to smacko tje guy, prolly schwangoed out, an' fool editin' not gonna sway me now, pn my heart, blessed to touch this place, wanna suck hard on the ******.

    Dunno if that's passion but I'd fight ya to be me right now.

    Got borno, got the horno, gonna spawno.

    Kinda that.
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

      On my heart,
      don't want my life wasted
      chasin' noneya alien passiondreams
      'cos my knuckles ghost out white
      on stoopid fightin' ya.

      Wanna lift life up right now, smack it onya.

      Guy here on my train is so cool an' so crazybeautiful an' he is swankin' on his honey all +

      Gotta love the roll on his eyes, wanna youchya.

      Flickin' on yummy from outta empty air.

      Yeh yeh wanna lick on there.

      Cool train, blow me out, swell me up on full.

      Or what do I do, jus' sit here?

      Hangin' by fingertips from some stoopid mountain not my own?

      I am too old to smacko tje guy, prolly schwangoed out, an' fool editin' not gonna sway me now, pn my heart, blessed to touch this place, wanna suck hard on the ******.

      Dunno if that's passion but I'd fight ya to be me right now.

      Got borno, got the horno, gonna spawno.

      Kinda that.
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  • So glad bein' mortified don't actually killya.

    Gotta live on tomorrow, gotta lick on there.

    Not played the vid, but I figure it's ironically unkind to moi.

    *throws back head, suggestin' mock indifference*

    But isn't this all the thing?

    Gotta rouse us up with sumthin' or we r jus' LOLcats ROFLin' in breezoland.

    I was gonna say sumthin' else but onea my eyes jus' fell out.

    Oh yeh, watch out, onea your eyes gonna fall out — only it did, an' now I lost the other one tryin' to put things right.

    Like Emerson said: "Sorry, you got the wrong guy — I'm Satan."

    Alternatively, either this guy is dead or my watch has started.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • in my dreams i am an unmoody ****a so i gotta sleep now

    i equally love that today is all burned up yet gone forever

    it is a disturbingly unequal equal i hope to balance better tomorrow

    hope godzilla don't hsve the same idea, but he prolly will, the sob
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    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Passion and desire are two different things entirely! DESIRE is a strong wish to do it. TODAY, I watched a good times episode, and JJ said he wished "that he could get rich enough to....". YEP, DESIRE! His character had his wish fulfilled the whole time! He COULD! PASSION is a bit more in that you will do it even if you see no benefit, etc... JJs character HAD a passion, for painting. Sometimes, he used it to make money. When the idiot manager gave a STUDENT'S painting to an art show, JJ did the right thing, and the student did also, and he made still more money. Had HE had the painting there, and really tried, he could have done FAR better.

    One person sold old records. HE wanted to be rich, but he used a kind of passion. TODAY, that old company that sold records from his kitchen table ALSO flies airplanes, and deals with cell phones. OH, they still sell records too, and everything around THAT! His companies are easy to spot because he poked fun at his being a NEWBIE, and named them all VIRGIN! He's a billionare, btw. Apparent 5.1 billion USD.

    Steve
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