What is the upvote button do

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Hello All

I noticed a few days ago that a new button appeared at the top of all threads it is the "upvote" button. Can anyone tell me what this does.

al
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    It's all part of the new Feed
    http://www.warriorforum.com/feed

    Apparently, admin thinks that making the site a bit like Reddit will turn it around. I disagree. I only hope that after Beta, they don't make the forum feed only for navigation. That would probably be the last nail in the coffin of the WF as we know it.
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    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      It's all part of the new Feed
      http://www.warriorforum.com/feed

      Apparently, admin thinks that making the site a bit like Reddit will turn it around. I disagree. I only hope that after Beta, they don't make the forum feed only for navigation. That would probably be the last nail in the coffin of the WF as we know it.
      So basically, if they go to the feed format such as reddit, then the spammers can upvote the crap out of each others signature pimping/whoring posts and keep them at the top of the post/thread list indefinitely?

      Happy days and the Warrior Forum

      al
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

        So basically, if they go to the feed format such as reddit, then the spammers can upvote the crap out of each others signature pimping/whoring posts and keep them at the top of the post/thread list indefinitely?

        Happy days and the Warrior Forum

        al
        Yes, exactly and that's of course what will happen. That's not what I dislike most about a feed only forum. I want to be able to scan the topics as they are listed. I don't care what anyone thinks about the topics, as in an upvote. When you consider the quality or lack thereof of the membership here, why would anyone care who upvotes a thread? I want to see what I want to see, not what other's ... mostly spammers, want me to see.

        This is a forum and trying to turn it into a social network is foolish.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alaister
          Hi everyone,

          I'm adding everyone in this thread to the beta testing group of this new feature called Feed where the Upvote button shows. You'll all get access to Warrior Feed as we beta test. If anyone else would like access, please let us know.

          The feed opens up the forum for improved browsing and discovery. We received a lot of feedback from people saying that a lot of gems and valuable content are hidden away in categories and buried over time. The feed homepage shows discussion in all categories sorted by a combination of upvotes and time. We want to empower the community in order to allow the best discussions to rise to the top.

          You can also sort by:
          • "Most Recent" which is the equivalent of "New Posts". This shows the threads with the latest activity
          • "Top Voted" in the last Day, Week, Month and All Time

          You can click on different categories to only show the discussions in that category, sorted by number of upvotes and time.

          When browsing the feed or the forum, feel free to click Upvote to show that you find the discussion valuable.

          Thank you for everyone who has provided feedback in regards to spammers abusing this system. We are working on different measures to prevent this from happening and place high priority on the integrity of the upvoting system.

          As we roll this out to more users we'll be closely watching people's behaviour and how everyone is using and getting value from Warrior Feed. Feel free to email us with your thoughts and feedback - feedback@warriorforum.com

          Thank you
          Alaister
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

            Hi everyone,

            I'm adding everyone in this thread to the beta testing group of this new feature called Feed where the Upvote button shows. You'll all get access to the beta Warrior Feed.

            Thank you
            Alaister
            Is it your intention to replace the current forum with this Feed as the only navigation available in time?
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            • Profile picture of the author Alaister
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Is it your intention to replace the current forum with this Feed as the only navigation available in time?
              Hi Suzanne,

              We're testing the feed out based on user feedback and how people interact with the feed. We don't have any plans to replace the forum with the feed.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

                Hi Suzanne,

                We're testing the feed out based on user feedback and how people interact with the feed. We don't have any plans to replace the forum with the feed.
                Well, that's a relief. Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulSch
    Sorry to be a dozy idiot but where is this button? I can't see it anywhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Not all of us are seeing it yet.
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    • Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      No all of us are seeing it yet.
      It's rollin' out like a mis-synched dance troupe.

      I don't have it yet.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Not all of us are seeing it yet.

      The story of your life.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Yeah. Haven't noticed any big, grand announcement of it yet. Some were selected to beta test. Just selected ... not asked. I got the email saying I would see it and they wanted feedback. I gave them feedback. Like I said, as long as I don't have to use it, I don't care that it's there, but if the forum goes to all feed in a reddit like way, this forum as a viable IM forum will be toast.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulSch
    Nope. It's not anywhere on the page. Maybe we can't afford it here in Europe.

    I guess as it's in Beta it's not being shown/offered to everyone.

    Thanks for showing me what I'm missing. Don't suppose I'll lose too much sleep over it.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Can you see who upvoted a thread because without knowing who made the votes it's a easier for someone to create fake forum profiles & rank a thread on the feed. I mean 40 upvotes with zero comments on all the profiles is less trustworthy than 40 upvotes from 40 profiles with each having 1,000 legit comments.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Can you see who upvoted a thread because without knowing who made the votes it's a easier for someone to create fake forum profiles & rank a thread on the feed. I mean 40 upvotes with zero comments on all the profiles is less trustworthy than 40 upvotes from 40 profiles with each having 1,000 legit comments.
      This is a good point. We can see who has upvoted threads discussions. We don't display this publicly at the moment. This is something we're actually considering.

      What you mentioned is part of our system in order to detect spam and fake upvotes.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I can give my idea on it right now. I don't care that it's there. It won't effect me either way as long as I don't have to rummage through it to try to find anything. I agree with Suzanne and prefer to just browse the topics in the particular forum I choose in its current format. It doesn't matter to me at all who "upvotes" a thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I mentioned elsewhere, I think - but...

      Can one person 'upvote' the same thread more than once?

      Asking because I tried it and found I could upvote my own thread...that's not good. I can't thank myself and should not be able to "vote for" myself either.

      I guess what I'm asking is whether people will be able to highlight themselves and their threads - whether there will be 'trading' of votes and positioning for feed space. I don't know that will happen - just questions that came to mind.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alaister
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Can one person 'upvote' the same thread more than once?
        No, you can only upvote a thread once.

        I upvoted my own threads also. You shouldn't be able to upvote your own thread and this will be gamed just as the thread rating system in place has been gamed in the commercial threads. I had a Wire for Hire thread that was full of glowing reviews from customers and yet, it had one star rating. Why? Because competitors do that to people competing with them for business.
        I don't see anything wrong with upvoting your own thread, it's a single vote which will never rank a thread on it's own. Maybe block the same IP from making multiple upvotes per each thread from multiple profiles. I don't see the OP of a thread making any difference, again it's a single vote up against other threads with 10s/100s of votes.
        These are good points, in regards to upvoting your own thread. We're working on a fix for this. We'll either make it so when someone creates a thread, they automatically upvote it (They can't upvote it again) or just have the system not allow the thread poster to upvote.

        The upvote shouldn't even be on the commercial threads. Just asking for it to be gamed.
        The upvote system was built for discussions. We don't show commercial threads in the trending section. They can only be viewed in "Marketplace" at this stage. We recognize the behaviour and dynamics of a discussion thread is very different to a commercial thread.

        EDIT: If there is going to be an upvote, there should also be a downvote. Of course, that would be gamed too, but why not be able to downvote useless into oblivion?
        We treat no upvote, as a silent downvote. If there is a discussion that is not offering value, then theoretically people won't upvote it and it will never make it to the trending front page.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

          We treat no upvote, as a silent downvote.
          I'm not sure I'm agreeing with that logic, but that's just me.



          Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

          the trending front page.
          I take it that a Trending Front Page is coming? That could be interesting if you (ya'll ) can pull it off.


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          • Profile picture of the author Alaister
            Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

            I take it that a Trending Front Page is coming? That could be interesting if you (ya'll ) can pull it off.

            Joe Mobley
            You should have access to it right now. Just click on "Feed" in the navigation menu.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

              You should have access to it right now. Just click on "Feed" in the navigation menu.
              I'm kind-of liking it. The threads coming from multiple forums was interesting. I'll need to give it more time.


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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                I'm kind-of liking it. The threads coming from multiple forums was interesting. I'll need to give it more time.
                You can get the same thing by clicking on New Posts in the "regular" forum. You can see a chronological listing of all posts from all forums. When I'm on the forum, I use that way to browse 99% of the time.

                Mark
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                Alaister,

                A suggestion or two:

                Leave the "Feed" in place.

                IN ADDITION...

                Create a new forum between the Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum and Warrior Special Offers forum. Or maybe above the Main Forum.

                Name this forum something like Trending Front Page forum. You get the idea. This would allow us to view upvoted threads in the familiar Warrior Forum format. And... give a quasi-reddit-ize effect.

                Just thinking, and spending your money.


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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I upvoted my own threads also. You shouldn't be able to upvote your own thread and this will be gamed just as the thread rating system in place has been gamed in the commercial threads. I had a Warrior for Hire thread that was full of glowing reviews from customers and yet, it had one star rating. Why? Because competitors do that to people competing with them for business.

    You can buy reddit upvotes on the Net, as well as Facebook likes and Stumbles with Stumbleupon. It can't be stopped when it is for sale and different people do it (as in an organized for payment upvoting business) rather than one person with numerous IDs.

    The upvote shouldn't even be on the commercial threads. Just asking for it to be gamed.

    EDIT: If there is going to be an upvote, there should also be a downvote. Of course, that would be gamed too, but why not be able to downvote useless threads into oblivion?
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      And... how is the DownVote button coming?


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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I can give my idea on it right now. I don't care that it's there. It won't effect me either way as long as I don't have to rummage through it to try to find anything. I agree with Suzanne and prefer to just browse the topics in the particular forum I choose in its current format. It doesn't matter to me at all who "upvotes" a thread.
        I was about to agree, but if I can upvote my threads a gazillion times with a good fiverr gig and send a huge wave of traffic to my oh so significant signature - well, you get the picture.


        Long live the upvote!
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          I was about to agree, but if I can upvote my threads a gazillion times with a good fiverr gig and send a huge wave of traffic to my oh so significant signature - well, you get the picture.


          Long live the upvote!
          That was already answered, a fiverr gig would all be new forum profiles & doubtful any legit comments.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            That was already answered, a fiverr gig would all be new forum profiles & doubtful any legit comments.
            I love cats, I love every kind of cat. Sorry I'm thinking about cats again...
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Two points:

        Point number one: I actually like reddit.com and how it is organized. I don't know if the Warrior Forum has the foundation of visitors, members and staff to operate in a similar manner. Or, if they (the WF) are even trying to.

        Point number two: [I'll get to that in a minute.]


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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

          Point number one: I actually like reddit.com and how it is organized. I don't know if the Warrior Forum has the foundation of visitors, members and staff to operate in a similar manner. Or, if they (the WF) are even trying to.

          Joe Mobley
          I sincerely hope they aren't trying to be another reddit. I actually hate reddit and hated Digg when Digg was popular.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I don't see anything wrong with upvoting your own thread, it's a single vote which will never rank a thread on it's own. Maybe block the same IP from making multiple upvotes per each thread from multiple profiles. I don't see the OP of a thread making any difference, again it's a single vote up against other threads with 10s/100s of votes.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    One way to entirely avoid spam blast on upvotes would be to only allow War Room members to upvote. Granted it would be less votes but they would all be legit votes.

    No spammer would ever buy multiple War Room forum profiles.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Okay,

      Point number two:

      As owners of any business knows, trying new ideas is how businesses grow. Alas, not every idea is going to be wonderful. Adjust accordingly and move on.

      Also, not everyone is going to be happy with any change. A lesson that we should have learned about the 2nd week of kindergarten.

      My frame of mind is "let's give it some time and see what happens".


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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Okay,

        Point number two:
        I just want to know what you were doing between point 1 and point 2.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          I just want to know what you were doing between point 1 and point 2.
          You're not the first girl to ask me that.


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          P.S. Call me later and we can go over a couple of points.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
            Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

            You're not the first girl to ask me that.


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            P.S. Call me later and we can go over a couple of points.
            I may have to give you my new google voice number to call.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        My frame of mind is "let's give it some time and see what happens".

        Joe Mobley
        My frame of mind is as long as I'm not forced to navigate this forum via the feed, I don't care that it's there. I have no interest in the trending topics on this forum. I barely look at the other forums and when I do, I am bombarded with spam and link droppers. I call it trending spam, and now the spammers will have a new toy to play with in trying to get their useless posts in front of as many eyeballs as possible.

        Got money to burn and want to improve the forum experience for users? Make the mods actually open threads every day and read the threads and ban the link droppers and self promoters and spammers. Hire new mods if you need to get it under control. Assign sections to each mod and make them responsible for their sections.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Here's an example of what I think is currently wrong with the feed. I chose a section that I am interested in ... ecommerce.

    The first trending post has only three posts, started by a link dropper. In 2 out of 4 posts, he has given his url, although it isn't necessary to the post in question. There's only two responses, both of them amounting to nothing of value added to the thread. It's a completely useless thread, and yet it has 6 upvotes with 3 posts.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/ecommerc...ting-well.html

    The second trending post is actually informative and has two pages and no spam. It has 15 upvotes, but it lags behind the first trending post that is useless.

    Then come the others that I haven't read. The posts are not ordered by number of upvotes, as you would expect them to be. There are posts with one upvote trending higher than posts with two or more, etc.

    Makes no sense.

    Another example. I clicked on Top Voted and chose One day.

    The first one listed is that same lame post I mentioned above. Completely worthless post. It's followed by an ok post and then followed by many with zero upvotes. Why list posts with zero upvotes or a low number of upvotes in Top Voted? That should be reserved for posts that have a minimum amount of upvotes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Not sure I understand the no vote for a down vote thing.

      In the past I have very rarely even rated a thread. One good thing about that was you could not rate your own thread.

      Anyway I think I'm going to not think so much about this. There would likely be threads few and far between that I'd do any vote on.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

        Not sure I understand the no vote for a down vote thing.

        In the past I have very rarely even rated a thread. One good thing about that was you could not rate your own thread.

        Anyway I think I'm going to not think so much about this. There would likely be threads few and far between that I'd do any vote on.
        It makes no sense to me to not have a downvote button if you have an upvote button. I don't buy the no vote = downvote. Let the people downvote useless threads and bury them. If you're going to imitate Reddit and Digg ... they both had downvoting.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

        Not sure I understand the no vote for a down vote thing.

        In the past I have very rarely even rated a thread. One good thing about that was you could not rate your own thread.

        Anyway I think I'm going to not think so much about this. There would likely be threads few and far between that I'd do any vote on.
        To be honest how many times have you seen a long thread that might only have 1 good comment that everyone Thanks. Usually the OP is a noob question with the answer half way down the thread (maybe even a 2nd+ page on the thread) so thanking the entire thread is kind of confusing when the OP is usually not useful on it's own.

        I think having the Upvote button where the current Thanks button is would get used more often, it would still be useful to see who thanked the comment (not thread) like we see right now on the old forum.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          I think having the Upvote button where the current Thanks button is would get used more often, it would still be useful to see who thanked the comment (not thread) like we see right now on the old forum.
          I agree and that is why the old quote ... if it ain't broke, don't fix it applies to most things. The valuable or funny or entertaining posts have always been thanked, which is a vote. There are hardly any threads that are so good they deserve an upvote. Many are like you said, the OP is lame and most of the posters are also lame, but one or two people go out of their way and post something very useful. They should be the ones who are thanked, as they are already. No changes required. I'm with whatever in the opinion of not seeing any value in the feed at all.
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          • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            To be honest how many times have you seen a long thread that might only have 1 good comment that everyone Thanks. Usually the OP is a noob question with the answer half way down the thread (maybe even a 2nd+ page on the thread) so thanking the entire thread is kind of confusing when the OP is usually not useful on it's own.

            I think having the Upvote button where the current Thanks button is would get used more often, it would still be useful to see who thanked the comment (not thread) like we see right now on the old forum.
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            I agree and that is why the old quote ... if it ain't broke, don't fix it applies to most things. The valuable or funny or entertaining posts have always been thanked, which is a vote. There are hardly any threads that are so good they deserve an upvote. Many are like you said, the OP is lame and most of the posters are also lame, but one or two people go out of their way and post something very useful. They should be the ones who are thanked, as they are already. No changes required. I'm with whatever in the opinion of not seeing any value in the feed at all.
            Yeah, add me to the growing list of people who are confused as to why a new "Upvote" button is even needed when we already have a "Thanks" button which is doing the exact same thing.

            For that matter, why are the Report and Infraction buttons so tiny and hard to find? They could be combined, (as few people know the difference), and made just as large and obvious as the "Thanks" button. If the admins were really serious about getting rid of the nonsense, this would be a no-brainer, and if we actually got rid of the spam, (in seconds, not hours), then the remaining threads would in fact have (some) value, and there'd be no need for any "Upvote" buttons.

            In that same line of reasoning, since 88% of this site's visitors are not logged in, why not make the now-stunningly-obvious "Report" button available to any visitor? This should increase the spam reporting eight-fold, which would at least trigger the auto-hide mechanism far more quickly, until a human is able to attend to a given post. I can't see much downside, as I strongly doubt that non-Members are going to behave much differently for this particular reporting behavior.

            Speaking of eliminating the spam before it became visible, how about setting the search engine spidering robot configuration so that threads would only get indexed by Google, et. al., after the second post in a thread, and/or if they lasted, say, three hours. This would have minimal/zero impact on desired search engine traffic, but the weekly get-your-ex-back-with-voodoo nonsense wouldn't get their phone numbers into Google's index (at least via WF).

            tl;dr: We have a Thanks button; we don't need an Upvote button. We do need a much better Report button.
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            • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
              The vBulletin mod at the following link would eliminate much of the robospam.

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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                Personally I can't see any benefit at all from an upvote, or even downvote button.

                I should add that I can't see any benefit to the "feed" either.
                Who ever said any of it was to benefit YOU ?
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

              In that same line of reasoning, since 88% of this site's visitors are not logged in, why not make the now-stunningly-obvious "Report" button available to any visitor? This should increase the spam reporting eight-fold, which would at least trigger the auto-hide mechanism far more quickly, until a human is able to attend to a given post. I can't see much downside, as I strongly doubt that non-Members are going to behave much differently for this particular reporting behavior.
              I don't like that idea. Someone who can't be bothered to even sign up as a member of the forum shouldn't be entitled to have a say on a post's value. Also, the mods wouldn't see who reported it, so they couldn't act on any misuse.

              .
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              • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
                Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                I don't like that idea. Someone who can't be bothered to even sign up as a member of the forum shouldn't be entitled to have a say on a post's value. Also, the mods wouldn't see who reported it, so they couldn't act on any misuse..
                Note that I'm not saying unregistered people can/should Thank or Upvote, just Report, which in turn still (eventually) needs to go to a human. Yes, a certain number of Reports can/should lead to auto-hide, but not auto-delete.
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                • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                  Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

                  Note that I'm not saying unregistered people can/should Thank or Upvote, just Report, which in turn still (eventually) needs to go to a human. Yes, a certain number of Reports can/should lead to auto-hide, but not auto-delete.
                  I get that. Still don't like it. If they want reporting rights, they should sign up first.

                  .
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              Very few things more wonderful that a high-maintenance girl that's worth it.




              Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Personally I can't see any benefit at all from an upvote, or even downvote button.

    I should add that I can't see any benefit to the "feed" either.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      Personally I can't see any benefit at all from an upvote, or even downvote button.

      I should add that I can't see any benefit to the "feed" either.

      Like I said in my last comment, I think the feed would be better If individual forum comments were upvoted. That way the feed would be a list of all the best comments on the forum. That would include OPs or comments nested 2 pages deep on a forum thread. Granted they would have to throttle to only allow a single comment per thread, we don't need 7 top comments on the feed to be from a single thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Like I said in my last comment, I think the feed would be better If individual forum comments were upvoted. That way the feed would be a list of all the best comments on the forum. That would include OPs or comments nested 2 pages deep on a forum thread. Granted they would have to throttle to only allow a single comment per thread, we don't need 7 top comments on the feed to be from a single thread.
        That maybe of benefit upstairs, but as I only frequent the OT Forum these days it's not going to change anything I do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        why not make the now-stunningly-obvious "Report" button available to any visitor
        People who were banned could then cause havoc - people who never signed up or logged in or participated with others here could make judgements on what appears here though they have nothing to do with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    Very interesting, please add me to the beta testing group. Thank you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alaister
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      To be honest how many times have you seen a long thread that might only have 1 good comment that everyone Thanks. Usually the OP is a noob question with the answer half way down the thread (maybe even a 2nd+ page on the thread) so thanking the entire thread is kind of confusing when the OP is usually not useful on it's own.

      I think having the Upvote button where the current Thanks button is would get used more often, it would still be useful to see who thanked the comment (not thread) like we see right now on the old forum.
      We've put a lot of thought into this. The upvotes is a reflection of the value of the entire thread as a whole discussion rather than just the post by OP. In regards to showing comments in a feed like format, the problem with this is a lot of the time a thread is linear and doesn't make a lot of sense out of context.

      Adding upvotes to replies and comments is something we could explore further.


      Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

      Personally I can't see any benefit at all from an upvote, or even downvote button.

      I should add that I can't see any benefit to the "feed" either.
      The benefit is for the wider community who browse the Warrior Forum to learn about Internet marketing. The goal is to allow the best and most valuable discussions each day and week to be displayed prominently. We are aiming to improve discovery on Warrior Forum. If you want to drill down to a specific category, you can still do that with the navigation on the left hand side.

      Originally Posted by Tomas Lodén View Post

      Very interesting, please add me to the beta testing group. Thank you.
      I've added you to the beta group. I've also added you @David Beroff
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

        The benefit is for the wider community who browse the Warrior Forum to learn about Internet marketing. The goal is to allow the best and most valuable discussions each day and week to be displayed prominently. We are aiming to improve discovery on Warrior Forum. If you want to drill down to a specific category, you can still do that with the navigation on the left hand side.
        Then I can only assume that there's a lot you are still working on, as indicated in this post
        http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...l#post10430619 ... it's not working out that the best threads are at the top, since I showed that a junk thread had risen above an alright thread that had more upvotes. The junk thread was actually a thread that should have no upvotes. It benefited no one.

        Upvotes don't seem to impact the order of the threads shown. Right now, as I check, here is the current order of the front page of the feed by upvotes

        3, 7, 18, 10, 2, 9, 7, 32, 6, 7, 6, 8, 5, 10, 4, 4, 2, 6, 10, 4, 4, 4, 10, 8, 10, 7, 5, 14, 10, 7, 7, 4, 22, 9, 3, 9, 5, 6, 10, 5, 15, 9, 12, 9, 5, 13, 17, 3, 3, 2

        Explain to me why a post with 3 upvotes is at the top, when there are posts with more upvotes below it.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
          Right now, the top upvoted item at
          http://www.warriorforum.com/feed/top/all
          is a seven-year old thread which was closed two years ago, and which in turn appears to reside in an unlisted (secret?) subforum:



          I'm trying to understand how this is even possible. Please advise.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

            Right now, the top upvoted item at
            http://www.warriorforum.com/feed/top/all
            is a seven-year old thread which was closed two years ago, and which in turn appears to reside in an unlisted (secret?) subforum:



            I'm trying to understand how this is even possible. Please advise.
            It looks to me like manipulation. The Op in that thread isn't involved with PIP any longer on the WF, I believe I saw her mention because Freelancer closed the PIP thread on WF when they took over. How an old thread can have ANY upvotes is beyond me, since they predate the Upvote button. If there is deliberate manipulation going on, the whole Upvote concept is contrived and completely useless. Sounds to me kind of like promoting content that used to be good because of a lack of current good content. Just my impression.

            This reminds me of when Freelancer first took over, they proposed to have chosen posters posting contrived posts. That was panned, or downvoted by the members who saw the suggestion, but who knows whether or not they did it.

            It shows to me that the problem is with the quality of members rather than with the site burying old content and it not being able to be found by new members. New, valuable content should be produced daily on this site, but the overwhelming amount of posts are spam and posts that are by people so lacking in English skills, you can barely stand to read them. Tight moderation is what is needed to get rid of the garbage so that good content can be found. Problem is, many of the experienced marketers who created that good content are long gone.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
              559 upvote?

              Holy crap!

              Speechless.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                559 upvote?

                Holy crap!

                Speechless.
                Yeah, for a long dead thread that has been closed since Freelancer took over and was nothing but a link drop for PIP customers to start with. That ought to be real interesting reading. Go figure.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                  Ok, I skimmed down that list.

                  My guess is that ratings and thanks are having some weight?

                  There is a post from admin about the WF going back to paid status on that list.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                    To the best of my knowledge, this upvote has only been around less than a month?

                    If you click on "top voted" and "month" you get a completely different result.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                    Ok, I skimmed down that list.

                    My guess is that ratings and thanks are having some weight?

                    There is a post from admin about the WF going back to paid status on that list.
                    Yeah, 6 yr old closed thread by Allen saying WF going back to paid status, which is not good reading for people digging for good content, as it was suggested is the reason for the feed.

                    Then the Clickbump Method posted by the owner of Clickbump. I reported that thread a long time ago for self promotion as he was a notorious self promoter. It was closed. Should have been deleted.

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/search-e...-answered.html

                    ... and so on. Something really isn't being told about how these threads are being automatically upvoted without apparently even reviewing them for content, but I can assure you that they aren't being upvoted by actual people.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

        If you want to drill down to a specific category, you can still do that with the navigation on the left hand side.
        Or i could have a tab with the front page of the OT forum open and refresh it every now and then to see what is new, which is what I've always done upstairs and down here.

        I suppose it doesn't really matter much down here, but upstairs I can see the system being "gamed". I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Fiverr gigs popping up along the lines of "100 Warrior Forum upvotes for $5". Especially for WSO's.

        But hey, there's no harm in trying something new.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Fiverr gigs popping up along the lines of "100 Warrior Forum upvotes for $5". Especially for WSO's.

          But hey, there's no harm in trying something new.
          Not for WSOs. Alaister said commercial threads weren't included in the feed, however you're right about fiverr gigs popping up to upvote the new version of a commercial thread, which is self promotion in the discussion forums ... like the Clickbump thread that I reported a long time ago. It can also be gamed by Freelancer apparently, but upvoting their own content ... like maybe discussions about freelancing where a few select individuals recommend Freelancer. Now that I realize that it isn't really people who have upvoted threads, I have a complete distrust of the whole system.
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            Not for WSOs. Alaister said commercial threads weren't included in the feed, however you're right about fiverr gigs popping up to upvote the new version of a commercial thread, which is self promotion in the discussion forums ... like the Clickbump thread that I reported a long time ago. It can also be gamed by Freelancer apparently, but upvoting their own content ... like maybe discussions about freelancing where a few select individuals recommend Freelancer. Now that I realize that it isn't really people who have upvoted threads, I have a complete distrust of the whole system.
            I've always distrusted popularity contests. It goes back to the mid 70's when I stopped paying attention to the Top 40 music charts. i wasn't going to buy a record (remember them?) just because everyone else was buying it, and the stuff I did buy very rarely made the charts. Even if it did, i bought it because I liked it, not because it was on the charts.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              I've always distrusted popularity contests. It goes back to the mid 70's when I stopped paying attention to the Top 40 music charts. i wasn't going to buy a record (remember them?) just because everyone else was buying it, and the stuff I did buy very rarely made the charts. Even if it did, i bought it because I liked it, not because it was on the charts.
              I agree completely. I also dislike popularity contests and like movies and music that doesn't always appeal to the masses.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

        The goal is to allow the best and most valuable discussions each day and week to be displayed prominently. We are aiming to improve discovery on Warrior Forum.
        While your goal is a worthy one, especially considering the circumstances, in my opinion it would be a mistake to confuse popularity for the "best" and "most valuable" discussions. What you're trying isn't new, and unless you can find a way to prevent the system from being gamed, achieving your goal is going to be very difficult at best.

        To me, the real problem is not so much one of discovery, but of quality participation.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Well, just noticed that the Upvote button is on WSOs, so there goes the no commercial threads thing. There will literally be a ton of Fiverr gigs and organized Upvote sellers. Hmmm .... think I'll do a sales page now.

    Not really, but don't think for a moment that someone else won't.
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Originally Posted by Alaister View Post


      The upvote system was built for discussions. We don't show commercial threads



      .
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Well, just noticed that the Upvote button is on WSOs, so there goes the no commercial threads thing. .
      Sounds like Freelancer is saying one thing and doing the exact opposite. This is a credibility issue now. Somethings need to be address or this will create more problems than it is worth.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Upvotes on WSO's - I didn't believe it till I saw it. Can you imagine how many MORE Fiverr links will appear on the WF....."get 500 upvotes in 24 hrs"....could replace "pay for bump".

        One of the feeds on the list this morning is the second thread by a new member with total 6 posts or so....who keeps asking about a product from 2008 (updated in 2013).

        Now PIPS, too?

        I don't see any way that members can "upvote" and have any kind of decent resulting feed. It will be gamed so fast heads will spin.

        Why not let the MODS (who are paid) each choose a number of threads each day to appear in the feed????? The mods are supposed to be reading for content/spam/etc...they could be neutral and choose threads that at least make sense from an IM and YEAR point of view.
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I could be wrong but I believe the PIPS forum is running - but not in conjunction with the WF as it did before. Am I wrong about that?
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              I could be wrong but I believe the PIPS forum is running - but not in conjunction with the WF as it did before. Am I wrong about that?
              You are right. Freelancer closed the PIPS thread on WF when they took over. But PIPS still exists. Don't know what it is or how active it is, but it's still alive.
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              • Profile picture of the author Alaister
                Thank you for everyone's discussion. It's really valuable and will help us improve what we're doing.

                I want to address some of the points that have been raised:

                1) The upvoting system has no impact on commercial threads. WSOs are not shown in the feed at all so while right now there are "Upvote" buttons on WSOs, they don't actually do anything. We are in the process of removing them completely from the marketplace categories.

                2) "Trending" is not sorted by number of upvotes. It is sorted by an algorithm that takes into account a number of factors including start date (time), comments, upvotes etcetera. If you are looking to sort via number of Upvotes, Top Voted is where you should look.

                3) In order to pre-fill the feed and in an attempt to give the community, especially the beta users, a better idea of what the feed could be, we used a combination of Thanks and number of replies to assign upvotes to previous threads. We have not and will not manipulate upvotes given to threads since we released feed, unless we are removing spam or inappropriate content (moderation as usual).

                I understand the way we have handled pre-assigning upvotes based on Thanks and Replies for previous Threads is not perfect. We are manually going through and removing things that don't make sense, like threads in the old subforums.
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                • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
                  Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

                  We have not and will not manipulate upvotes...
                  But you did.

                  I have a swell idea: If you really want us to trust this, rather than cherry-picking what to remove "manually", simply zero out all of the counters and just count actual votes. Seems pretty simple to me.
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                  • Profile picture of the author michaeloslier
                    Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

                    But you did.

                    I have a swell idea: If you really want us to trust this, rather than cherry-picking what to remove "manually", simply zero out all of the counters and just count actual votes. Seems pretty simple to me.
                    This would make it useless for all the previous threads. They're trying to help discovery of previous valuable threads also. This all seems fine with me.
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                    • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
                      Originally Posted by michaeloslier View Post

                      They're trying to help discovery of previous valuable threads also.
                      That's what Google is for. It seems to be doing fine so far.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                      Originally Posted by michaeloslier View Post

                      This would make it useless for all the previous threads. They're trying to help discovery of previous valuable threads also. This all seems fine with me.
                      The newer members don't seem to care much when they discover a thread is more than 2 months old.

                      They want the latest information on a subject.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        We have not and will not manipulate upvotes given to threads since we released feed, unless we are removing spam or inappropriate content (moderation as usual).
                        I want to be clear - I do not think you or FL as a whole - would manipulate the "votes". There would be no benefit - nothing to gain and credibility to lose.

                        Members trying to game the system by forming groups or buying upvotes or whatever - care only about their own benefit. I'd like to think that wouldn't happen - but I've been here too long to believe that.
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                        • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
                          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                          I want to be clear - I do not think you or FL as a whole - would manipulate the "votes". There would be no benefit - nothing to gain...
                          No? I respectfully disagree, Kay.

                          Freelancer is a public company; they need to show that their numbers are always increasing. Their position:

                          As of February 2015, Warrior Forum community consists of
                          over 900,000 passionate online marketers, including Vice
                          Presidents, Chief Marketing and Chief Growth Officers from
                          some of the top Internet companies in the world.
                          (Source: FLN FY14 Annual Report)

                          As of right now, there are 862 active members on the site:

                          (Source: WF front page)

                          I would think that this is a rather uncomfortable discrepancy to explain to shareholders.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                            David found the squirrel!
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                            • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
                              Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                              David found the squirrel!
                              Yip! I had to exchange 100 nuts in order to upgrade my avatar, but it was so worth it!
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                              • Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

                                Yip! I had to exchange 100 nuts in order to upgrade my avatar, but it was so worth it!
                                Easter Bunny got nuthin' on L'il Punkin.
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                • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

                  2) "Trending" is not sorted by number of upvotes. It is sorted by an algorithm that takes into account a number of factors including start date (time), comments, upvotes etcetera. If you are looking to sort via number of Upvotes, Top Voted is where you should look.
                  Thanks. Now I understand the trending and why and how old, useless threads have been upvoted.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I can tell you right now bogus threads are being ranked.

    Keyword density is not SEO but there's a related thread ranked #1 right now on the SEO forum. So now you have SEO noobs reading bogus threads thinking it's something useful (it's not).

    We need a DownVote button. Not voting at all only helps promote useless threads.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I can tell you right now bogus threads are being ranked.

      Keyword density is not SEO but there's a related thread ranked #1 right now on the SEO forum. So now you have SEO noobs reading bogus threads thinking it's something useful (it's not).

      We need a DownVote button. Not voting at all only helps promote useless threads.
      Definitely bogus threads are ranked. I linked to a post with a stupid question and two stupid answers, total of 3 stupid posts and the OP typed his url in 2 out of 4 of his posts, so basically, he's nothing but a link dropper trying to get traffic to his worthless site from WF. It had 6 real upvotes and should have none and was at the top of the trending list. Obviously, if that kind of crap is trending, who in the world wants to read it?
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    I miss the good old days! This forum worked flawless (or close to) long before the freelancer guys took over.. We don´t need this upvote/downvote thing, what we need are good moderators and a "buy me a beer" button.... That´s it! Good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
      Originally Posted by Tomas Lodén View Post

      . We don´t need this upvote/downvote thing, what we need are good moderators and a "buy me a beer" button.... That´s it! Good luck!


      I will buy a six pack if they get good mods here !

      Yep Mods are working overtime today ! As you can see by the post below, when I logged on at 12:30

      11th Dec 2015, 12:08 PM #1
      hung2493
      Warrior Member

      Join Date: 2015
      Posts: 0
      Thanks: 0
      Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
      Default Dịch vụ In tem 7 màu ưu đãi tại Hà Nội
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Tomas Lodén View Post

      I miss the good old days! This forum worked flawless (or close to) long before the freelancer guys took over.. We don´t need this upvote/downvote thing, what we need are good moderators and a "buy me a beer" button.... That´s it! Good luck!
      Well, unfortunately, it's gone and not coming back. They'd have to deliberately get rid of several hundred thousand people that they recruited as members and somehow entice back all the long term members that left, and everyone knows that isn't going to happen. Few will care about this upvote thing except for those who wish to game it and those who aren't really valuable contributors here. The purpose of an Internet Marketing forum before was always to provide a great place for Internet Marketers of all levels of experience to network with each other and a great marketplace to sell and buy products. This feature is just a gimmick and I never really had a desire here to play with features and never cared about design. It was the people here that made this forum what it was.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    This crappy thread that has nothing to do with SEO has been ranked #1 for at least 2 days now.

    If that's what folks think is quality content I won't be using the Upvote/Feed.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      This crappy thread that has nothing to do with SEO has been ranked #1 for at least 2 days now.

      If that's what folks think is quality content I won't be using the Upvote/Feed.
      I like post #15... 4% keyword density is best, and selling SEO services in their sig. Better jump on that before the price goes up.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    So, I just upvoted a thread and then went to top voted Day and there's nothing there except threads that have no votes at all. Doesn't seem to be working very well.
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