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Fedor vs. Lesnar

by Kurt
31 replies
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We'll probably never see this fight, but who would you pick, Fedor or Lesnar?

Also, did Fedor fight recently? I know he was supposed to fight Josh Barnett but Barnett tested positive for steroids. Did they find someone else at the last minute to take on Fedor?
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    No, there was no replacement, and it pretty much brought down Affliction. That's really too bad, it's the second time Josh has been busted for this and he really is an excellent fighter that had the best chance of beating Fedor (in Afflication).

    As for Lesnar... he's an absolute monster with great wrestling ability. Fedor, on the other hand, in my opinion, seems to have been declining over the years a bit. Maybe due to fighting sub-quality fighters over the last few years. Granted, he did take out big Tim and Andrea recently.

    Could Lesnar beat Fedor? I think the chances are probably even. Fedor has brought down many great wrestlers in his time, but none nearly as strong. Fedor's stand up is probably much better than Lesnar's, and he's certainly faster, but nobody seems to stay up with Lesnar that long.

    I can't take a side on this one, but I'd sure love to see that fight.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Noel
      I would love to see this fight. I can't stand Lesner he's just a big ass. I heard rumors that Tim Silva wants to come back to the UFC just to fight him. Personally I think that Tim would get beat.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
        Originally Posted by Jeff Noel View Post

        I would love to see this fight. I can't stand Lesner he's just a big ass. I heard rumors that Tim Silva wants to come back to the UFC just to fight him. Personally I think that Tim would get beat.
        Tim got demolished in under 20 seconds by a 48yr old Ray Mercer. I seriously think Tim's better days are behind him. Lesnar would break him in half.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeff Noel
          Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

          Tim got demolished in under 20 seconds by a 48yr old Ray Mercer. I seriously think Tim's better days are behind him. Lesnar would break him in half.
          I so agree. He is so boring to watch and before he lost his title in the UFC his last two fight were totally pathetic.

          You have to have heart to be a top contender in the UFC and Tim does not have it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

          Tim got demolished in under 20 seconds by a 48yr old Ray Mercer. I seriously think Tim's better days are behind him. Lesnar would break him in half.
          Kinda makes you wonder how either of the Klitcko brothers would do in MMA? Give them a year of training for take down defense and a lower leg kick ala Jardine...Mercer was a decent boxer in his day, but he was never in the class of either Kitchko.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Kinda makes you wonder how either of the Klitcko brothers would do in MMA? Give them a year of training for take down defense and a lower leg kick ala Jardine...Mercer was a decent boxer in his day, but he was never in the class of either Kitchko.
            Yea, the Klitcko brothers are definetly a couple tough guys... but I do think Tim's loss had more to do with Tim's skills declining + out of shape than Ray's ability to fight.

            Ray's first venture into the MMA world was with a fight against Kimbo Slice, and he lost that quite easily. Now, Kimbo's a good fighter (street fighter) but he's not top HW MMA material.

            These boxing guys spend their whole lives (literally since as young as 5 yrs old) training to fight standing up. So much so their muscles are literally hardwired for movements for standing combat. Given that most fights in MMA end up on the mat at some point, a talented wrestler and submission artist would easily submit a talented boxer... assuming it gets to the ground.

            Brock gets away with being so good in MMA fighting, withot the BJJ/boxing background, because he is an outstanding wrestler. He just needed to learn how to avoid some submissions that he wasn't already familiar with... of course it also helps that he's 2x stronger than anyone he fights.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

              Yea, the Klitcko brothers are definetly a couple tough guys... but I do think Tim's loss had more to do with Tim's skills declining + out of shape than Ray's ability to fight.

              Ray's first venture into the MMA world was with a fight against Kimbo Slice, and he lost that quite easily. Now, Kimbo's a good fighter (street fighter) but he's not top HW MMA material.

              These boxing guys spend their whole lives (literally since as young as 5 yrs old) training to fight standing up. So much so their muscles are literally hardwired for movements for standing combat. Given that most fights in MMA end up on the mat at some point, a talented wrestler and submission artist would easily submit a talented boxer... assuming it gets to the ground.

              Brock gets away with being so good in MMA fighting, withot the BJJ/boxing background, because he is an outstanding wrestler. He just needed to learn how to avoid some submissions that he wasn't already familiar with... of course it also helps that he's 2x stronger than anyone he fights.
              Wrestlers also have a disadvantage in that fighting on their back is totally unnatural, as wrestlers can't be on their backs. Even guys like Lidell and Dan Henderson were wrestlers, but win most of their fights striking.

              And none of the MMA guys can strike like either Klitcko, especially Vladimir. Vladimir may be the best offensive HW boxer ever. His chin is suspect, but he, Foreman and Liston are the only guys I've ever seen that can get a KO with a jab. And Vladimir has the jab, hook and right cross, all with serious KO power.

              Put the light 8oz gloves on Vladimir and he could kill someone.

              I'll give you if it does go to the matt, Vladimir would be at a big disadvantage. But I think he could train for that, at least take down defense. And every MMA fighter will be at a big disadvantage standing up against him.

              I love GPS and he's probably my favorite MMA fighter (I like Dan Henderson too)...But would make Silva the slight favorite, especially after seeing him easily handle Forrest Griffin. No one had done that to Forrest, espcially a guy moving up.

              As far as pound for pound, I'll take Fedor. I don't think that because he's a HW he can't be in contention for pound for pound. He's dominated his division like no one else has dominated their's.
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                Wrestlers also have a disadvantage in that fighting on their back is totally unnatural, as wrestlers can't be on their backs. Even guys like Lidell and Dan Henderson were wrestlers, but win most of their fights striking.
                Absolutely. Straight wrestlers (like Lesnar) do have a disadvantage on their back. The strange thing is, Chuck has some great BJJ skills. He is (or was) just such a great striker, he never had to use them.

                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                And none of the MMA guys can strike like either Klitcko, especially Vladimir. Vladimir may be the best offensive HW boxer ever. His chin is suspect, but he, Foreman and Liston are the only guys I've ever seen that can get a KO with a jab. And Vladimir has the jab, hook and right cross, all with serious KO power.
                I would put Ali on that list as well. Great fighter - with a killer jab.

                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                As far as pound for pound, I'll take Fedor. I don't think that because he's a HW he can't be in contention for pound for pound. He's dominated his division like no one else has dominated their's.
                Yes, I'm a big Fedor fan as well, and I would agree about him being the p4p best fighter if it weren't for him spening the last couple of years (prior to Sylvia and Andre) fighting fighters that were not considered top 10.

                The thing I like about UFC is, they're usually pretty good with matching champion fighters with the 'next in line' fighters. In that kind of system, it's very unlikely to have an unbeaten fighter.

                On the other hand, Fedor fought a lot of fighters that really didn't deserve a shot at him. That's one of the reasons I don't believe Fedor's unbeaten record justifies him as the p4p best fighter.

                Don't get me wrong, Fedor is awesome. I would have loved to see him join the UFC.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post


                  I would put Ali on that list as well. Great fighter - with a killer jab.
                  Ali had the greatest jab in boxing history...But it was a different kind of jab. Ali's jab was cumulative. He'd hit you so many times, you'd eventually go down. Larry Holmes also had a great jab, but his was like Ali's and was cumulative.

                  The 3 guys I mentioned had KO power with a single jab.

                  It's all speculation, which is a big part of the fun of sports....But I'll say if Mike Tyson trained in MMA, he would have been the baddest of them all.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    ....But I'll say if Mike Tyson trained in MMA, he would have been the baddest of them all.
                    Here's a great interview with Mike at UFC 98... kind of cool he's an MMA fan.

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                    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
                      Sadly, Tyson's daughter died in an accident shortly after that UFC 98 interview.
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  • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
    Brock would murder Sylvia.

    Fedor would destroy Brock right now IMO. Brock is a complete beast but I don't think he is ready for Fedor. Too bad we will prolly never see the fight.

    As for Fedor's next fight it will be in Strikeforce this fall...I assume Overeem or Rogers - both of who Fedor will beat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pixulated
    Fedor would knock the crap out of Brock Lesnar.

    However like anything if Brock managed to get Fedor in a couple of positions of maybe hit him with a few powerful blows who knows what would happen.

    They're both only human right?
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  • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
    Yeah anyone who goes into a fight has a punchers chance...just look at Matt Serra knocking out GSP - they could fight 100 times and that might be the only time Serra beat him. Anyone can get caught.

    As for them both being human - I am not sure about Fedor - my theory of him being some kind of biological weapon created in a Russian lab has yet to be disproved.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      Yeah anyone who goes into a fight has a punchers chance...just look at Matt Serra knocking out GSP - they could fight 100 times and that might be the only time Serra beat him. Anyone can get caught.

      As for them both being human - I am not sure about Fedor - my theory of him being some kind of biological weapon created in a Russian lab has yet to be disproved.
      I'd set the odds at 3 to 1 with Fedor as the favorite. Lesnar is a physical freak and I believe he was a 3 time all-American wrestler in college, so he does have a chance.

      And other than Fedor vs. Lesnar, the fight I'd most like to see is GSP vs Anderson Silva...Although Silva seems to be moving up in weight class, instead of down.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        I'd most like to see is GSP vs Anderson.
        That would certainly be a great match up. I personally think GSP is the best pound-for-pound out there today.

        Actually, I would like to see Sliva fight Machida in the LHW class. I honestly think Machida would beat Silva... Machida is one slippery dude and has a very awkward style that all of his opponents, thus far, couldn't handle.
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  • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
    I think the top three P4P have been mentioned - Silva, GSP and Fedor. I lean towards Fedor as well - but really you can make a solid discussion for any of them.

    I also agree with Anderson being the slight favourite over GSP. The one advantage GSP would have would be that he is a ridiculous wrestler (weird since he never wrestled in HS or college) and that is allegedly Silva's weakness.

    I have heard that Silva and Machida will never happen. They are training partners and both have publically said they will not fight each other. Now I am sure Dana White disagrees and will try to make it happen. It would be a VERY interesting match because I would say Machida is arguably top 5 P4P and certainly top ten.

    As for the Klitchko brothers - talk about a punchers chance LOL If they connected they would do DAMAGE. I do not agree that no MMA guys can strike like them - I would agree none can punch like them though. Striking in MMA is much more than punching though - I think Klitchko would be in some big trouble even standing if he had to fight some big Muay Thai striker in MMA. Kongo comes to mind.

    I think obviously anyone who excels in one discipline (wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ etc...) has a great start to a career but MMA has evolved so much - you better be able to adapt and become well rounded.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

      I think the top three P4P have been mentioned - Silva, GSP and Fedor. I lean towards Fedor as well - but really you can make a solid discussion for any of them.

      I also agree with Anderson being the slight favourite over GSP. The one advantage GSP would have would be that he is a ridiculous wrestler (weird since he never wrestled in HS or college) and that is allegedly Silva's weakness.

      I have heard that Silva and Machida will never happen. They are training partners and both have publically said they will not fight each other. Now I am sure Dana White disagrees and will try to make it happen. It would be a VERY interesting match because I would say Machida is arguably top 5 P4P and certainly top ten.

      As for the Klitchko brothers - talk about a punchers chance LOL If they connected they would do DAMAGE. I do not agree that no MMA guys can strike like them - I would agree none can punch like them though. Striking in MMA is much more than punching though - I think Klitchko would be in some big trouble even standing if he had to fight some big Muay Thai striker in MMA. Kongo comes to mind.

      I think obviously anyone who excels in one discipline (wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ etc...) has a great start to a career but MMA has evolved so much - you better be able to adapt and become well rounded.
      Actually, I saw a show on one of our American channels (Discovery?) that tested various martial arts and boxers hit far harder than any other martial arts.

      I also think that Vladimir Klitchko is a better athelete (hand/foot speed, coordination) than the MMAers. And, he could learn some skills with training.

      I'd bet Klitchko would do better in MMA than any of the top MMA guys would do in a boxing ring with Klitchko.

      Concerning Kongo...Lesnar vs Kongo would be a very interesting fight.
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      • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Actually, I saw a show on one of our American channels (Discovery?) that tested various martial arts and boxers hit far harder than any other martial arts.

        I also think that Vladimir Klitchko is a better athelete (hand/foot speed, coordination) than the MMAers. And, he could learn some skills with training.

        I'd bet Klitchko would do better in MMA than any of the top MMA guys would do in a boxing ring with Klitchko.

        Concerning Kongo...Lesnar vs Kongo would be a very interesting fight.
        Yes but boxers only punch. That is their complete striking arsenal - I agree they are the best punchers - and I have heard reports that punches carry the most PSI but still striking in MMA is completely different. Even the way you have to stand is completely different.

        Klitchko has never seen kicks, elbows, knees and more importantly the Muay Thai Clinch..and that is just standing - he is completely oblivious to the ground game.

        You mentioned he would have to be trained in take down defense etc... and yeah MAYBE he could learn those things and become an effective MMA fighter but excelling in one discipline is only a great start = not a sure thing.

        I also think the argument of Klitchko would do better in an MMA fight than an MMA fighter would do in a boxing ring isn't fair. In those scenarios Klitchko has his full training arsenal available to him both times, while the MMA fighter will have a LARGE part of his training and skill dissallowed.

        It would be like if Klitchko fought in MMA but wasnt allowed to punch.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

          Yes but boxers only punch. That is their complete striking arsenal - I agree they are the best punchers - and I have heard reports that punches carry the most PSI but still striking in MMA is completely different. Even the way you have to stand is completely different.

          Klitchko has never seen kicks, elbows, knees and more importantly the Muay Thai Clinch..and that is just standing - he is completely oblivious to the ground game.

          You mentioned he would have to be trained in take down defense etc... and yeah MAYBE he could learn those things and become an effective MMA fighter but excelling in one discipline is only a great start = not a sure thing.

          I also think the argument of Klitchko would do better in an MMA fight than an MMA fighter would do in a boxing ring isn't fair. In those scenarios Klitchko has his full training arsenal available to him both times, while the MMA fighter will have a LARGE part of his training and skill dissallowed.

          It would be like if Klitchko fought in MMA but wasnt allowed to punch.
          And yet...A 48 year old, wasn't even great in his prime boxer, beat the former UFC champion. I promise that Klitchko hits much harder than Mercer.

          It is fair that Klitchko would do better in the octogon than MMA in the ring. MMA have taken boxing and like you said, Klitchko has never taken MMA. But you do admit that Klitchko would do better in the octogon than an MMA guy would do in the ring?

          Fact is, Klitchko moves his feet better and can be taught the same skills the MMA guys learned. He's 6'5" 245 without an oz of fat, quick on his feet with great footwork, hits harder than any MMA guy and has a phd, meaning he's smart. I see no reason why if properly trained, he wouldn't dominate.

          Put the small gloves on him and lets then talk about his punching power. I also bet with a little training he would kick as hard as a Jardine...

          Sure he could be beaten, but there isn't an MMA guy alive that also couldn't be beaten by Klitchko right now. Brock Lesnar has proven that you don't have to have tons of MMA training to be a champion. If Lesnar can knock out Couture, so can Klitchko.
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          • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            And yet...A 48 year old, wasn't even great in his prime boxer, beat the former UFC champion. I promise that Klitchko hits much harder than Mercer.
            I agree he would have a great punchers chance but as it stands I think he loses 9 out of every 10 fights.

            It is fair that Klitchko would do better in the octogon than MMA in the ring. MMA have taken boxing and like you said, Klitchko has never taken MMA. But you do admit that Klitchko would do better in the octogon than an MMA guy would do in the ring?
            I do think he would do better in the octagon than an MMA guy in a boxing match...I just don't think that is meaningful at all or a fair comparison. In a boxing match an MMA fighter would only be allowed to use a very small subset of his overall skills. In either scenario Kitchko has his full skillset open for us. He is never limited.

            Fact is, Klitchko moves his feet better and can be taught the same skills the MMA guys learned. He's 6'5" 245 without an oz of fat, quick on his feet with great footwork, hits harder than any MMA guy and has a phd, meaning he's smart. I see no reason why if properly trained, he wouldn't dominate.
            Maybe he would - I can't comment on a possibility with any level of assuredness.

            Sure he could be beaten, but there isn't an MMA guy alive that also couldn't be beaten by Klitchko right now. Brock Lesnar has proven that you don't have to have tons of MMA training to be a champion. If Lesnar can knock out Couture, so can Klitchko.
            Couture would take Klitchko down in a second and ground and pound him in the first round. Couture couldn't do that with Brock because of Brocks wrestling prowess - so he was forced to exchange.

            Klitchko has a punchers chance against anyone in MMA - but I think there are a high number of fighters in MMA who would beat him convincingly 8 out of ten times.

            Again all speculation on my part. We won't know any of this unless a high profile boxer dedicates to training MMA while still in his prime.

            Daveanderson: I have to say, I think fedor would get beat and get beat quick. He has not had any big fights lately and I think he is overrated. I am not saying he can't be as good as people say he is I just think he has had weak fights and not been tested recently. I think Lesnar would be tough to beat right now
            .

            I am not sure I agree with the idea that Fedor has been fighting weak competition...Fedor just destroyed 2 former UFC champs.

            Yes before that there was a streak when he fought Choi and Lindland that was questionable but those 2 fights are just an aberration IMO.

            Maybe Brock wins but no way is it quick. Fedor has NEVER lost (sorry his one loss is complete BS and I refuse to recognize it) so until someone can show me a weakness he has I will pick him everytime.
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  • Profile picture of the author L.James
    I would have to say Lesnar
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  • Profile picture of the author Rich Lowe
    I'll go with Fedor. He was on a martial arts documentary the other week here in England.

    I think George St Pierre rocks!

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author daveanderson
    I have to say, I think fedor would get beat and get beat quick. He has not had any big fights lately and I think he is overrated. I am not saying he can't be as good as people say he is I just think he has had weak fights and not been tested recently. I think Lesnar would be tough to beat right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author lilhay
    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

    We'll probably never see this fight, but who would you pick, Fedor or Lesnar?

    Also, did Fedor fight recently? I know he was supposed to fight Josh Barnett but Barnett tested positive for steroids. Did they find someone else at the last minute to take on Fedor?
    I pick Fedor. The reason is experience and skill. This guy is a beast. Never lost in 30 fights and defeated most of the current UFC heavyweights.

    Fedor hasn't fought since the last fight in Affliction. He did sign a multi fight deal with StrikeForce to co promote with M1 Global. Expect to see him in the near future.

    He turned down a multi million dollar deal with the UFC which is insane!

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  • Profile picture of the author MIB Mastermind
    Anderson Hand down has to be the greatest mixed martial artist to fight in the UFC or mma for that matter, the way he went about dismanteling a former LHW champion like forest was an awesome display of striking.

    Machida comes a very close second.

    As for how well the klitchko brother would do in mma, I think they would do ok after some serious wresting and bjj traing but I would take a top class mauy thai fighter over a top class boxer any day of the week as they have far more weapons at there disposal.
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  • Profile picture of the author metaphors
    I would have to go with fedor over lesnar simply because I see a huge hole in his standup that Fedor would easily exploit and if he did get fedor to the ground he would have to fight as cautious as he did against mir since fedor is a submission expert as well.

    As far as best p4p fighter goes I would agree that fedor, gsp and silva are all top contenders but I would also put Miguel Torres on that list the guy is 37 and 2 with 22 of those being submissions and 9 being (T)ko's and up until WEC 42 was on a 17 fight win streak but I guess most people over look the WEC. At the very least he's the best p4p American born mma fighter in the world(Gsp is canadian, fedor is russian and silva is brazilian).
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  • Profile picture of the author TeddyP
    Torres is nice - but he just lost to Bowles so that has to hurt his ranking. WEC puts on some good fights. I would have had Faber near the top P4P until he lost to Mike Brown twice.

    There is some up and comer who fights Brown next I think - Jose Aldo who is supposed to be just dynamite don't know a lot about him though.
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  • Profile picture of the author BenjaminGates
    I heard about Ali as there was a film by Will on him. But never heard of these two guys.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Noel
      Fedors managers/agents screwed up a really good deal with the UFC. Apparently, there are no plans to go back to the table anytime soon. So if this fight is going to happen it could be far down the road.

      Dana hate managers/agents so he said if they sit down anytime soon it will be just him and Fedor without the klingons.
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