Self Deception, the ultimate in lying.

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As a follow-on to Ray's thread, http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ing-truth.html, I thought I would go down a slightly different path.


The unyielding optimist will pretend that the forest is not burning either because he is too lazy or too afraid to go and put the fire out."

― Criss Jami, Killosophy

Joe Mobley
  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

    As a follow-on to Ray's thread, http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ing-truth.html, I thought I would go down a slightly different path.

    The unyielding optimist will pretend that the forest is not burning either because he is too lazy or too afraid to go and put the fire out."

    ― Criss Jami, Killosophy



    Joe Mobley
    I don't think that's true. Self deception isn't because of laziness or fear. It's because of a flawed world view. The self deceived will believe that the forest isn't really on fire. Even if he is getting burned in the flames. Imagination is always stronger than reality.

    The evidence for this is nearly universal. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an exception.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      That's fine. Just one of many quotes I have found on self deception.


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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        "No man was ever so much deceived by another as by himself."

        ― Fulke Greville
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I don't think that's true. Self deception isn't because of laziness or fear. It's because of a flawed world view. The self deceived will believe that the forest isn't really on fire. Even if he is getting burned in the flames. Imagination is always stronger than reality.

      The evidence for this is nearly universal. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an exception.
      If a man is self deceived in Egypt he will be in de-nile.
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      • Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        If a man is self deceived in Egypt he will be in de-nile.
        That is a pharaoh assumption.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by Princess Balestra View Post

          That is a pharaoh assumption.
          It's an Apophisis of mine.
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    • Profile picture of the author irawr
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      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I don't think that's true. Self deception isn't because of laziness or fear. It's because of a flawed world view. The self deceived will believe that the forest isn't really on fire. Even if he is getting burned in the flames. Imagination is always stronger than reality.

      The evidence for this is nearly universal. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an exception.
      It's absolutely possible to lie to yourself (and thoroughly believe it) for the purpose of self preservation.

      I see this discussion in sales here and there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    We're all self-deceived about one thing or another.

    As for the Egyptian puns, they Sphinx to high heaven.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Claude likes to do Egyptian style flashing in Wooster. With Kurt doing the driving, he sticks his bare butt out of the window and lets one go..

      It's been called the "Toot In Car Moon"

      Barrel scraping sounds
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        "Of all the liars in the world, sometimes the worst are our own fears."

        ― Rudyard Kipling
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          "Self-deception comes from not having enough psychological strength to admit the truth and deal with the consequences that will follow when the truth is acknowledged."

          ― Cortney S. Warren, Lies We Tell Ourselves: The Psychology of Self-Deception
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

            “Self-deception comes from not having enough psychological strength to admit the truth and deal with the consequences that will follow when the truth is acknowledged.”

            ― Cortney S. Warren, Lies We Tell Ourselves: The Psychology of Self-Deception
            Fresh from the "Nobody asked you, Claude" department.

            I don't think it's a matter of psychological strength or intelligence. It has nothing to do with admitting the truth. They can't see the truth, because it conflicts with their world view. It simply doesn't get through the filter of our view.

            This may be because the truth is so damaging that it can't be accepted, but this is on an unconscious level. The person isn't aware of the reason, just the view.

            In the "Claude is a pretentious boring egotistical prick" file....


            I was saying something to a friend about a scientific theory. a well established one with plenty of hard evidence. He said, "Can you prove it to me?" I said, "No. I can explain it to you...clearly, completely, and answer your questions...but I can't prove it to you"

            He said, "Why not?"

            I said, "Because your whole existence is wrapped around a different explanation. You literally wouldn't hear the words I am saying. I would tell you a sentence, and your brain would cause you to hear something I didn't even say, so you could argue with it. I know that sounds impossible. But it's the truth".

            Of course, he denied it, as any sane person would.....

            So I gave it a few sentences. He then said, "So you're saying that...."

            And I said, "No. Not at all. I didn't say it at all. In fact, I said the opposite. " And I said it again. I did this three times, and he came back with something I didn't say. Not even the same words. The meanings were changed dramatically, exaggerated to make it easier to dispute.

            A few other friends were standing with us, and said, "Yeah, Claude isn't saying that at all"

            Was my friend a fool? Insane? No. He was the most intelligent one there. But it was a defense mechanism. He couldn't see it.

            When someone has invested in a world view, everything opposed to it is treated as a threat. We do all of this unconsciously.

            Listen to anyone with a different religious or political view than you have. You'll hear arguments that baffle you, because they ignore obvious facts, to conform to their established view. What we cannot see, is when we do it ourselves.

            You see it in the Forum. People keep arguing something the other person didn't say at all.

            Watch one of the primary debates. The side doesn't matter. One person claims another said something they didn't say. It's like everyone up there is speaking their own language.
            One guy says "A", and the next guy argues that he said "B". It's painful to watch. But I see it everywhere.

            In fact, that may be the prime reason for arguments, I don't know.

            I try not to do it myself, and occasionally realize it after the fact, or if someone points it out. But I have no idea how often I miss it. Having no empathy helps. Separating yourself from the outcome helps. But I can't fix what I can't see.


            Just put me on Ignore. My cat does.
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              I said, "Because your whole existence is wrapped around a different explanation. You literally wouldn't hear the words I am saying. I would tell you a sentence, and your brain would cause you to hear something I didn't even say, so you could argue with it. I know that sounds impossible. But it's the truth".
              Wait a minute.. so you're saying the Moon is made of donuts?

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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              Quite the contrary. I find your thinking through a topic with some semblance of logic and reason interesting to say the least.

              Unfortunately, many are not capable of such an undertaking. Hence,

              http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...id-people.html.


              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Fresh from the "Nobody asked you, Claude" department.

              ...

              In the "Claude is a pretentious boring egotistical prick" file....


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    • Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      As for the Egyptian puns, they Sphinx to high heaven.
      Only another 13,548 to go, an' we'll have the set.

      But, yeah, I guess self-deception is what happens when you look in a mirror an' see sumthin' other than your reflection.

      That is why you should never go to bed drunk wearin' a mask.

      It can be a shock when you finally get to brush your teeth, especially if you got an Osiris mask or onea those weird birds.

      Tellya, if I had a guardian vulture, I would name her Osiris.

      No one would mess with me, ever.
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      Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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