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This forum has gone to the dogs.

And I just had another indication of it, the final nail in the coffin if you will.

An established member messaged me days ago asking for help.

I responded and tried to fit help into his budget.

Then, after excuses about Paypal not working, he emails me "One more question I wanted to ask you, can I make sales with your script? This isn't the first time that I brought a script from somebody on here and it was complete rubbish. I just want to know if I'm going to get my money's worth."

What a loser mindset. Beaten before he starts. I should out him by name. He should be embarrassed.

I'm done. I'm no longer going to try to help you broke people for next to nothing. It's not worth the investment of my time or my emotions. After all the content and help I've provided here, it's just a terrible experience.

See ya.

EDIT: This was posted in the Offline section for a few Offline friends, most of whom I've met in real life. Not for public consumption in Off Topic.
  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

    I'm done. I'm no longer going to try to help you broke people for next to nothing. It's not worth the investment of my time or my emotions. After all the content and help I've provided here, it's just a terrible experience.
    Obviously you should follow your own advice and qualify better...
    Signature

    I stayed up all night trying to figure out where the Sun went.
    Then it dawned on me...
    What I do for a living

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Jason, I almost always read your insightful, helpful posts.

    Maybe you need a break or maybe you need to make some adjustments in how you do things or deal with folks here. But whatever it is, I hope you don't leave. In just the last couple days we've already lost several other folks that have helped out here for years.

    The decline of things here is really sad but it won't survive at all without folks like you willing to help out.

    Regardless, thanks for your contributions over the years.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    Jason, please don't go. I agree that this forum has gone downhill but if the good people such as yourself disappear, then it won't be worthwhile me staying either. Most job inquiries I receive are from people wanting urgent work done and are "willing" to pay money I wouldn't even get out of bed for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Animal makes a good point (I saw it when I was logged out, where I'm going back to and continue to write for a corporate client).

    The deal is this: I make my money from corporate clients. That way I can knock the price down for my help for people here, since I'm not desperate to pay my bills with these sales. The people here can't afford to pay thousands of dollars, but with some expertise on their side they can start to grow their businesses if they are committed.

    I was here because I wanted to help people, and my Thanks count is a reflection of that. Next time you get 50+ or 100+ Thanks for a post, you let me know.

    99 out of 100 people wanting to get in touch with me here go through my posts, go through my marketing content, and know exactly why they want to work with me. They know the value. And I'm happy to help them. But there's always that 1 out of 100.

    This particular person got pretty far down the line in discussions with me, and he is an established member not a "just fell into the forum" newbie. That's what really makes it so upsetting. And it's simply not worth jarring my emotions for $200 or whatever when I can go make $1500 or more for doing exactly the same thing with somebody with a real business who appreciates it.

    I'm appreciative of the comments. This was not a "Oh please beg me to stay" thread, though. It was an outburst, definitely, because I'm dead tired of experiences like this. They're indicative of the scaredy-cat level of current members, and as Animal pointed out it's not good qualifying for me to stay.

    Mark, I've taken a break before and come back after about 6 months. The slide is bad, though...when you look at the statistics and the demographics and most importantly the personal effect of interacting here, it's just not worth it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Jason,

      Thank you for all of the work and the effort.

      Thanks for all of the great videos and posts.

      They've helped me, especially in the area of perspective
      and I appreciate it.

      This forum is what it is. Change can be difficult, but that's life.

      The work that you've done here will go on and will continue to help
      people. New folks will learn about you and seek you out.

      Some will become clients. That's a good thing.

      I have referred and will continue to refer others to you.

      Good luck, Jason. May your path be filled with blessings wherever it leads.

      Ron
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      I was here because I wanted to help people, and my Thanks count is a reflection of that. Next time you get 50+ or 100+ Thanks for a post, you let me know.

      99 out of 100 people wanting to get in touch with me here go through my posts, go through my marketing content, and know exactly why they want to work with me. They know the value. And I'm happy to help them. But there's always that 1 out of 100.
      If your focus is on helping people, then why are you leaving just because a small percentage of people disappointing you? 1 out of 100 really isn't all that of a problem considering how many people you can help.

      (JMO).
      Signature
      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Something else I noticed is that Jason has removed his Signature Link. Surely with all those 50+ or 100+ posts it would be worth keeping the link active. (Why? So that he could reach more people and ultimately help them.)

      Just seems like "sour grapes" to me.

      The Mind Warrior Forum isn't anything like it was when I first joined them. However I keep posting (what I hope is) valuable content because I like helping people.
      Signature
      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

        However I keep posting (what I hope is) valuable content because I like helping people.
        Well, good for you and I guess you should be applauded for that. That does not, however mean that anyone should follow your lead if that is not what they are not interested in doing.

        No one 'owes' anyone, anything, here. Do what you think is right for you and don't worry about how others choose to live their lives or run their business. That is simply not your concern and nothing for you to judge, at any level, which your comment was surreptitiously attempting to do.

        At some level your comment bordered on being snide. We don't all have to be as magnanimous as you want us to believe you are.

        We get it it - you're a giver and a peach of a human being. Sorry we can't all rise to your level.

        Cheers. - Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          Cool another bout with BigFrank. Bring it on. : ) I have missed these funny encounters.

          Life is what you make of it. The good, The bad. And the ugly. Knowing that any single person can create the Life of their dreams--no matter what happens--is the most important sentiment and empowering things I could ever share with you Guys.

          We create whatever reality that we choose to create.
          : )
          Signature
          "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

            Cool another bout with BigFrank. Bring it on. : ) I have missed these funny encounters.
            Absolutely no interest in engaging with you. You have demonstrated on numerous occasions that you have an inflexible mindset that functions solely by spouting bromides, trite clichés, psycho-babble and sheer nonsense that you pick-up on self-help blogs. Never anything of value, that can actually help anyone, though.

            Life is what you make of it. The good, The bad. And the ugly. Knowing that any single person can create the Life of their dreams—no matter what happens—is the most important sentiment and empowering things I could ever share with you Guys.

            We create whatever reality that we choose to create.
            : )
            Ladies and gentlemen - I present, 'Exhibit A.' lol

            Cheers. - Frank
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            • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
              When your time comes BigFrank (and it surely will) I want you know that I don't hold anything against you.

              : )
              Jonathan
              Signature
              "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                When your time comes BigFrank (and it surely will)
                Like it will for all of us. The depth of your observation/analysis is stunning. lol
                I want you know that I don't hold anything against you. : ) Jonathan
                I feel so much better, now. Likewise, Jason - I have nor hold absolutely nothing against you, I just think that your 'help' is the epitomy or worthless douche-water.

                Nothing personal. I'm sure you're a very nice guy and that people who know you like you. That said, there's no accounting for taste! (Just kidding. Seriously). It's nothing more than a lifetime observing people like you spew drivel and think they are fixing people problems and profoundly helping them.

                Cura te ipsum.

                Cheers. - Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  You're free in speaking your Mind, BigFrank. (And that's ones of the reasons why I like you.)

                  However if you're interesting in helping people then you may consider your approach. You have a lot of influence on this Forum and it would be nice to see you encouraging people instead of tearing them down.

                  (JMO.)
                  Signature
                  "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                    You're free in speaking your Mind, BigFrank. (And that's ones of the reasons why I like you.)
                    He likes me. HE REALLY LIKES ME!!!
                    However if you're interesting in helping people then you may consider your approach.
                    My approach is to PM them and ask them if they are possibly interested in what I may have top offer that could 'possibly' help them with their problem. I don't need to engage in any self-aggrandizement.
                    You have a lot of influence on this Forum
                    Actually, I have none, which is precisely how I like it.
                    and it would be nice to see you encouraging people instead of tearing them down.
                    Propping-up ridiculous assertions and concepts from people that have their head up their ass is not 'tearing them down.' My blunt, honest assessment and prescriptions are a sincere attempt to spare them the pain and misery that you attempt to direct them to with your incessant claptrap.
                    (JMO.)
                    You're entitled.

                    End of conversation.

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                      Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                      He likes me. HE REALLY LIKES ME!!!
                      OMG. Let's hug Brother.(Lol)
                      : P
                      Signature
                      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                When your time comes BigFrank (and it surely will) I want you know that I don't hold anything against you.
                Well played. You took the flame bait and made Flamonade
                Signature

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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                Like it will for all of us. The depth of your observation/analysis is stunning. lol
                I feel so much better, now. Likewise, Jason - I have nor hold absolutely nothing against you, I just think that your 'help' is the epitomy or worthless douche-water.

                Nothing personal. I'm sure you're a very nice guy and that people who know you like you. That said, there's no accounting for taste! (Just kidding. Seriously). It's nothing more than a lifetime observing people like you spew drivel and think they are fixing people problems and profoundly helping them.

                Cura te ipsum.

                Cheers. - Frank
                Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                You're free in speaking your Mind, BigFrank. (And that's ones of the reasons why I like you.)

                However if you're interesting in helping people then you may consider your approach. You have a lot of influence on this Forum and it would be nice to see you encouraging people instead of tearing them down.

                (JMO.)
                Something awfully familiar about all of this. - back to the future 2, Biff quote
                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                He likes me. HE REALLY LIKES ME!!!
                My approach is to PM them and ask them if they are possibly interested in what I may have top offer that could 'possibly' help them with their problem. I don't need to engage in any self-aggrandizement.
                Actually, I have none, which is precisely how I like it.
                Propping-up ridiculous assertions and concepts from people that have their head up their ass is not 'tearing them down.' My blunt, honest assessment and prescriptions are a sincere attempt to spare them the pain and misery that you attempt to direct them to with your incessant claptrap.
                You're entitled.

                End of conversation.

                Cheers. - Frank
                But in a nice way!

                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                Started by a different person and mostly participated in by different people. Maybe FL should consider that these frequent complaints by more than just a few disgruntled members might actually have some merit and that the problems might be more widespread than they want to admit. The underlying problems won't go away or get better by simply chastising people for talking about them.

                At least with them being out in the open about it, you have the opportunity to address these complaints in a proactive and constructive way. Perhaps looking at it as an opportunity instead of a problem would be valuable change. After all, an undetected cancer is usually far more destructive than a known cancer.

                Or, you could just look the other way. Just a thought...
                Jonathan, needs to remove Spiritual from his avatar image, that will, oh, don't worry.

                Just avoid, discussions about paranormal stuff, and all will be rosy.

                Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

                Are we doing this again guys?
                No, this is a dry run.

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              • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                I was about to say something here, but know better than to even get into the conversation I was going to say.

                So I will just say, carry on....
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                "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              You have demonstrated on numerous occasions that you have an inflexible mindset that functions solely by spouting bromides, trite clichés, psycho-babble and sheer nonsense that you pick-up on self-help blogs.
              Frank;

              Hey! Having an inflexible mindset that functions solely by spouting bromides, trite clichés, psycho-babble and sheer nonsense that you pick-up on self-help blogs.....is my thing!

              My attorney will be in touch.
              Signature

              Warrior HeySal is fighting for her life. You can help.
              Click Here: https://www.gofundme.com/heysal

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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Frank;

                Hey! Having an inflexible mindset that functions solely by spouting bromides, trite clichés, psycho-babble and sheer nonsense that you pick-up on self-help blogs.....is my thing!
                Carly Simon, said it best. "Nobody Does It Better."

                My attorney will be in touch.
                Is he out of jail, already???

                Cheers. - Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                My attorney will be in touch.





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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          No one 'owes' anyone, anything, here.

          My thought as well. Although I like Jason, and know he shares very valuable content, I don't think any of us here owe anyone else anything at all.

          If you want to help, help.
          If you like giving advice, do that.

          But if we expect thanks, or fair responses...then we have unreal expectations.

          Personally, I think we owe people we sell to, but until money changes hands? No.

          And someone who is wasting our time? We have the option of politely telling them to go away. I just don't think getting angry about any of this, is profitable.

          If you expect people to be bright....if you expect them to treat you with respect...and expect others to act as you want them to...you're going to spend a lot of your time, being disappointed.

          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          It makes one wonder if people complain because of their situation, or if their situation is a result of their attitude and outlook.

          Yup.

          Dennis; I miss your insight into the human condition.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post


          At some level your comment bordered on being snide.
          Perhaps.....at the imaginary level
          Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Jason and other readers, There's a bad vibe here, and some of it
    has been directed at me.

    2 well established members have asked me privately for help,
    gave it to them and thanked me, are now
    showing a lack of respect for me by their actions in public.

    Recently I started writing a quite a long and value added post
    then I took a break to read some comments on a post.

    Those comments trashed the possibility of others learning.

    I deleted the value added post I was going to post.

    It ain't worth contributing here anymore.

    Best,
    Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    its def. gone south thats for sure... thats why many of us "old timers" have stopped posting here... :-(
    Signature

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    ― Dalai Lama XIV

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  • Profile picture of the author CurtisSWN
    WF is not what it used to be, that's for sure. Paid forums however seem to be holding better.
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    Earns Me Over $146.72 in 12 Hours. This is Weird, But it Works!
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  • Profile picture of the author Gallag97
    some people cant be professional, thats doesn't mean that most people also have to suffer now? But your point s valid.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cristy94
    What convinced you of "helping them" until now? I guess there was something you were gaining too by helping them.
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  • Profile picture of the author coolmanyou2
    We are sorry. I would love to learn from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author coolmanyou2
    I think the internet needs good people like you.
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  • Profile picture of the author BarbaraP
    Sad to see this Jason yet completely understand. I used to be on WF several times a week to share and learn and it has just taken a downturn. I've been in marketing for 30 years and even so, have learned a lot from you (and Ewen who has similar comments too) and others who share insights, scripts and your own "test results." Appreciate and respect the contributions you've made here and completely understand where you're coming from. Cheers.
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  • Profile picture of the author dansilvestre
    Hey Jason,

    Did you get a chance to report this?

    One member doesn't make the entire community.

    As you say: 1 out of 100. There's 99 more to help.

    Dan

    P.s. I do understand the post came in frustration, been there done that
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    • Profile picture of the author umc
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      Hey Jason,

      Did you get a chance to report this?

      One member doesn't make the entire community.

      As you say: 1 out of 100. There's 99 more to help.

      Dan

      P.s. I do understand the post came in frustration, been there done that
      What would there possibly be to report? It was a member to member private message questioning and Jason got upset with the guy's attitude. What could or would the forum do about that? Your post doesn't make sense to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author kilgore
    Go.

    Seriously, what's the big deal? If the WF isn't fun anymore, why bother coming back?

    I'm not saying I don't enjoy or value your posts -- I do. But it's just a website -- and despite your history with this site and all your contributions to it, it's really not your website. It's Freelancer's website. They ponied up the bucks for it so like it or not it's theirs to make better or to run into the ground as they see fit. And though I'm sure Matt Barrie would say differently in public, my guess is that they only value the community so far as it increases their bottom line. But can you blame them? That's business.

    Honestly, I agree with most of the complaints you and others have raised about WF. Even though I'm relatively new here, I do think it's going downhill. Still, I just don't understand why people are putting so much time and energy into griping, bitching and moaning. As I see it, it's not worth fretting about, certainly not worth ranting about or making grand declarations about "being done". No need for drama. If you don't like it here anymore, just go. My guess is you'll miss it less than you think.

    As for me, I'll continue to show up once in a while as time permits. Sometimes I'll contribute; usually I won't bother. And if one day I get bored seeing the same posts over and over again, seeing post after post devoted more to advertising through their signature than actually discussing business and marketing, if too many of the good contributors -- like you -- leave, then I'll leave too. Quietly. I've got enough on my mind without having to worry about some silly website I have no control over.
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by kilgore View Post

      Still, I just don't understand why people are putting so much time and energy into griping, bitching and moaning.
      Because for a very long time, many of us really loved this place. I for one have consistently visited this website far more than any other website ever.

      And to see what it has become, and how it's gotten here, really sucks.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

    Animal makes a good point (I saw it when I was logged out, where I'm going back to and continue to write for a corporate client).

    The deal is this: I make my money from corporate clients. That way I can knock the price down for my help for people here, since I'm not desperate to pay my bills with these sales. The people here can't afford to pay thousands of dollars, but with some expertise on their side they can start to grow their businesses if they are committed.

    I was here because I wanted to help people, and my Thanks count is a reflection of that. Next time you get 50+ or 100+ Thanks for a post, you let me know.

    99 out of 100 people wanting to get in touch with me here go through my posts, go through my marketing content, and know exactly why they want to work with me. They know the value. And I'm happy to help them. But there's always that 1 out of 100.

    This particular person got pretty far down the line in discussions with me, and he is an established member not a "just fell into the forum" newbie. That's what really makes it so upsetting. And it's simply not worth jarring my emotions for $200 or whatever when I can go make $1500 or more for doing exactly the same thing with somebody with a real business who appreciates it.

    I'm appreciative of the comments. This was not a "Oh please beg me to stay" thread, though. It was an outburst, definitely, because I'm dead tired of experiences like this. They're indicative of the scaredy-cat level of current members, and as Animal pointed out it's not good qualifying for me to stay.

    Mark, I've taken a break before and come back after about 6 months. The slide is bad, though...when you look at the statistics and the demographics and most importantly the personal effect of interacting here, it's just not worth it.
    Yes, sounds familiar, why keep offering help, at a reduced price, or free advise, when this can occasionally happen.

    Or in my case update a free thread, and have the trolls, report and b**** about it, since it makes them want to grab their teddy's in the middle of the night.


    The newbies obviously don't get that the overall professionalism of this forum has deteriorated.

    :0.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    You are correct, If you do not want to get kicked in the guts, be abused, get put down, used, cussed, sworn at, and every other variable, then you should not be in the business of trying to help people, as it all comes with the package.

    Maybe you are just not cut out for the helping bit, so a good call from you, saves you the pain that comes with helping others, because if you do above is what you get with out fail, so you need to be strong and have your own life in balance or it will get you down, at least you tried which is more than most..
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    • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by Regional Warrior View Post

        And the goose of the day award goes to the person who does not read the whole thread
        O clever one, unless I have holes in my reading glasses I think I read the OP's post Ok, but let me get my goose feet on and waddle right out of here then, and we can leave your intelligence to shine above all.

        Always somebody who wants to attack people rather than the topic, every where I go I meet clever people, they seem to be everywhere and looks like you win that award today.
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  • Profile picture of the author digichik
    Jason, you're right. This place has gone down, and the powers that be, seemed to be deaf to those like IamNameless, who offered valuable suggestions to them, on keeping the forum lively and relevant.


    Just so you, and a few others know, I am extremely grateful for the valuable content/posts you have shared here. Heck, you along with Ewen, IamNameless, PeterLessard, DaniMac, Claude Whitacre, KenMichaels and a few others have your own folders on my computer, where I file your pearls of wisdom. Let's face it, the search feature on WF really sucks, and if I don't store them as I see them, chances of finding them again is slim. I value the contributions all of you have made.


    I like BarbaraP, I've had years of experience in sales/marketing, but continued to learn from all of those I have listed.


    I hope you, Ewen and the others don't take too long of a break from here.


    I wonder if the new owners realize, if they had worked to keep the Offline section of the forum lively, it would have contributed to even greater revenue for Freelancer. I outsource a lot, but I don't use Freelancer. Just sayin'...


    Forever Grateful to You All.
    Signature



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  • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
    I don't really get the point of this thread- if you are going to leave why not just do it?
    Signature

    'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion'
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

      I don't really get the point of this thread- if you are going to leave why not just do it?
      I'm sure will be the first of many.
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  • Profile picture of the author kilgore
    Originally Posted by perryny View Post

    Because for a very long time, many of us really loved this place. I for one have consistently visited this website far more than any other website ever.

    And to see what it has become, and how it's gotten here, really sucks.
    Yeah, I get that to some extent. But still, what's the point? Freelancer is gonna do what it's gonna do. The Warrior Forum as you knew it is no more. Perhaps that sucks, but sometimes reality sucks.

    Let's face it, forums are a dying breed. Certainly not extinct -- but dying. What people used to find at forums, they know find with social media and and answer at sites. Case in point: I'm sure that's why Freelancer invested so much into the new "Feed" interface for the site. If you're like me and have gotten used to the look and feel of the old Warrior Forum, you probably find the Feed interface annoying. But whether we like the new interface or not is beside the point: Freelancer is going to do what they feel is best for the future of the site, not what's best to keep a couple dozen old timers on the site happy.

    I don't know how to say this nicely, but the truth is that Freelancer doesn't care about you. It cares about its shareholders. Moreover, in the grand scheme of things the WF is probably one of Freelancer's smaller investments -- so I'm guessing that the folks in Freelancer's corporate office don't think much about the WF at all. If it succeeds, great. But if not, it's a tax write-off. No big deal.

    So to my way of thinking you have several choices:
    1. Adapt to the new WF, knowing it's not going to be like old times. Maybe like me that means coming around less and less. Or maybe you discover you actually like the new direction the forum is taken. (Hey! Stranger things have happened!)

    2. Leave.

    3. Don't adapt to the new WF, but keep coming back anyway. You can continue to be sad and disappointed about something you're not gonna change. And you'll be able to actively contribute to the WF's decline by turning off potential new members by constantly complaining about how crappy this place is compared to what it once was.

    I'm not gonna tell you which option you should choose. Maybe you enjoy complaining about the WF -- or maybe you want to "punish" Freelancer for ruining your beloved forum by dragging it down. In that case by all means continue to do so. But to me life is too short to invest so much time in a place I actively dislike so much. It's just like business really. If a traffic method or monetization strategy isn't working anymore, you stop wasting time doing it -- even if once it brought you in gobs of money. Far better to cut your losses and find something that is working than to keep banging your head trying to squeeze blood from a stone.

    Thankfully, my feelings for the WF are not -- and have never been -- that strong one way or the other. So for me the changes are annoying, but not a big deal. I don't do MMO stuff, so I have no financial interest here. I do like helping people and I do like being a smart-ass know-it-all, so I'll continue to show up from time to time. I've chosen "Option One" above. What are you going to do?



    Originally Posted by Zodiax View Post

    I don't really get the point of this thread- if you are going to leave why not just do it?
    Four potential reasons come to mind:
    1. It's a way of "grieving" for the loss of the "old" WF.
    2. It's a way to say goodbye to old "friends".
    3. It's a plea for attention. (If you want 10 "Thanks" quickly, bash Freelancer and watch them roll in!)
    4. It's a way to "punish" Freelancer by talking about how bad it is publicly.

    But that aside, I agree with you. If you're going to leave, just leave already.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by kilgore View Post

      Yeah, I get that to some extent. But still, what's the point? Freelancer is gonna do what it's gonna do. The Warrior Forum as you knew it is no more. Perhaps that sucks, but sometimes reality sucks.

      Let's face it, forums are a dying breed. Certainly not extinct -- but dying.
      Best post in the entire thread. Don't get it either. Not in denial about the forum taking a slide for years and not in Fl's corner (in my own) to sugarcoat everything but will never get the point of arguing and complaining endlessly on a site that does not belong to you.

      If you are here then you are here. If you are not the world continues. If you want to help out do if you don't then thats fine for the same reason - site is not yours and not your obligation. No one outside of the corporation has any obligation (or I might add pressing incentive) to restore the corporations site.

      It's a way of "grieving" for the loss of the "old" WF.
      It's a way to say goodbye to old "friends".
      It's a plea for attention. (If you want 10 "Thanks" quickly, bash Freelancer and watch them roll in!)
      It's a way to "punish" Freelancer by talking about how bad it is publicly.
      probably number one and the last one most

      - longing for the old days and doing what people always do with the good old days - elevating it in their minds to a place beyond a place it ever was.
      - punishment or berating because suggestions were not taken(some that probably should have been some not so much - but again not your site, so as an adult, why look to punish? Roll your eyes a few times perhaps but then move on)
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  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
    Originally Posted by coolmanyou2 View Post

    I think the internet needs good people like you.
    I don't think he's leaving "the internet."
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    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

      I don't think he's leaving "the internet."
      I wish I were that Clever!
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    • Profile picture of the author Princess Balestra
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

      I don't think he's leaving "the internet."
      I figure nonea us' re leavin' the internet.

      We jus' gotta hope the druids sort sumthin' out - mebbe a superhighway spun from flax an' goose feathers.
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    • Profile picture of the author CaRTmAnBrAh
      Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

      I don't think he's leaving "the internet."
      I hope you never leave the internet Jill. Although I did just go to your profile page and noticed you don't have any infractions. Nobody likes a goody two shoes Jill. Even Princess went rogue recently.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
        Originally Posted by CaRTmAnBrAh View Post

        I hope you never leave the internet Jill. Although I did just go to your profile page and noticed you don't have any infractions. Nobody likes a goody two shoes Jill. Even Princess went rogue recently.

        Maybe you missed it, but I was sent on a vacation myself a few months back. My first and what I plan to be the last.

        I missed you too when you were gone. You keep me on my toes. I believe I even stated it on the web somewhere but would have to hunt to see if it's still there.

        Anyway, this forum has a new direction and so I must follow.

        Only very helpful nice things to say about everyone now. Even you.

        I'm putting all the forum rules as wallpaper in my new tiny house.
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        • Profile picture of the author CaRTmAnBrAh
          Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

          Maybe you missed it, but I was sent on a vacation myself a few months back
          Good for you Jill, I hope it was for something truly dastardly.

          As for this thread and other similar threads sprouting up throughout the forum recently, it's quite surprising. I've often heard it said that the fundamental skill needed to succeed in business is the ability to adapt to change. Yet here we have a whole bunch of old school marketers mostly struggling to adapt to the recent changes at the forum. Running away and taking your ball with you is not what I expect from top level warriors. That's not the fighting spirit in which the warrior forum was founded..

          I've received amazing advice from some very talented warriors here and it is they who will lead us into the future. Godspeed warrior forum.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by CaRTmAnBrAh View Post

            Running away and taking your ball with you is not what I expect from top level warriors. That's not the fighting spirit in which the warrior forum was founded..
            I'll probably shock some people by defending them but its not their responsibility to fight that fight. Its no mark against those leaving that they don't want to fight a fight that isn't theirs no more than it would be for any non employee or shareholder to restore Microsoft, Apples or any corporation website or product.

            We should fight for causes we believe in, that affect our income family , livelihood or beliefs and skipping those that don't is no shame whatsoever..
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              We should fight for causes we believe in, that affect our income family , livelihood or beliefs and skipping those that don't is no shame whatsoever..

              Wasn't that part of a 1963 speech at the Lincoln Memorial?
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              I don't think I have ever talked to a business person that has not concurred that the lowest paying clients are the most demanding, difficult and at times unreasonable customers they have. Thats not unique to WF thats just how the world is.
              True. My first product was a CD of web graphics I made. This was around 1998 or 1999. I had an introductory price of $9.95 with a regular price of $14.95. Paying customers said I should be selling it for more. After several emails like that, I raised the price to $19.95 and when it sold even better at that price, I raised the price to $24.95.

              The only complaints I ever got was from the $9.95 buyers. They complained that there was empty disk space on the CD that could have been filled with more graphics, even though I clearly stated there were 2,200 graphics.

              It makes one wonder if people complain because of their situation, or if their situation is a result of their attitude and outlook.
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Lewis
    Cya. No reason to even mention you're leaving if you're leaving lol. Just fade off into the distance. I left for a few years and returned. It happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Wow! It appears that they removed my post from yesterday. That's odd. I didn't think I said anything out of line.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      Wow! It appears that they removed my post from yesterday. That's odd. I didn't think I said anything out of line.
      You posted in the other similar thread and it's still there. Did you post in this one too?

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        You posted in the other similar thread and it's still there. Did you post in this one too?

        Mark
        Nope. It's still there. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out.
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    • Profile picture of the author DavePalermo
      Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

      Wow! It appears that they removed my post from yesterday. That's odd. I didn't think I said anything out of line.


      And that is why I stopped coming back. God forbid if you have a dissenting opinion and the mods disapprove. They will probably delete this. Also, I've tried to PM people and it never goes through. This forum sucks anymore, I am not getting value from it and I visit it maybe twice a month. I used to actually learn something. But I have actually found other outlets that I get way more value and less fascist control from than this place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

    This forum has gone to the dogs.

    And I just had another indication of it, the final nail in the coffin if you will.

    An established member messaged me days ago asking for help.

    I responded and tried to fit help into his budget.

    Then, after excuses about Paypal not working, he emails me "One more question I wanted to ask you, can I make sales with your script?
    Jason I feel your pain. I think every seller who has worked both high paying clients and low paying clients knows it. Its nothing new. If you go back to WSOs of 3 or 4 years ago you will see the same questions asked in public.

    there are other real things you can point to for the decline of this forum but thats not one of them. I don't think I have ever talked to a business person that has not concurred that the lowest paying clients are the most demanding, difficult and at times unreasonable customers they have. Thats not unique to WF thats just how the world is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
    Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

    Cya. No reason to even mention you're leaving if you're leaving lol. Just fade off into the distance. I left for a few years and returned. It happens.
    I used to feel this way.

    But in this particular circumstance I think it is ok.

    Should someone actually be looking for him to send a PM or interact they now can refer to his latest posts and realize he likely won't be responding to them here.

    He also may change his mind months from now should his circumstances change.

    I personally like to know if someone is sick or has just moved for a bit. If he just stopped posting out of the blue I might conjure up awful thoughts of what happened to him. I'm glad he didn't leave me guessing.
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  • Profile picture of the author dansilvestre
    Are we doing this again guys?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      Are we doing this again guys?
      Started by a different person and mostly participated in by different people. Maybe FL should consider that these frequent complaints by more than just a few disgruntled members might actually have some merit and that the problems might be more widespread than they want to admit. The underlying problems won't go away or get better by simply chastising people for talking about them.

      At least with them being out in the open about it, you have the opportunity to address these complaints in a proactive and constructive way. Perhaps looking at it as an opportunity instead of a problem would be valuable change. After all, an undetected cancer is usually far more destructive than a known cancer.

      Or, you could just look the other way. Just a thought...
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        The underlying problems won't go away or get better by simply chastising people for talking about them.
        .
        What problems? Perhaps there are no big ones just a few minor issues.

        Now I can say that to you and probably get a reasonable response besides rolling of eyes and steam coming out of your ears. You might understand my point.

        A real problem is a road block to you achieving what you want or a failure to git rid of some situation you have that you really want to get rid of. Thing is you might want something I don't and you might want to get rid of something badly that I just find well..... not ideal but I can take it or leave it and don't need it gone.

        Goals being different problems will never be the same and the beating of the head against the wall only continues for one side.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          What problems? Perhaps there are no big ones just a few minor issues.
          The problems others' complain about, lol. I don't start these threads, I just try to point to some potential common ground so things might be worked out.
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          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            The problems others' complain about, lol. I don't start these threads, I just try to point to some potential common ground so things might be worked out.
            I miss you, your decorum and your common sense.

            I'm telling you, if we had a few thousand "you's" in here, this
            place would be awwwwwwesome

            Did you get your eyes fixed and are you feeling better yet?
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

              I miss you, your decorum and your common sense.

              I'm telling you, if we had a few thousand "you's" in here, this
              place would be awwwwwwesome

              Did you get your eyes fixed and are you feeling better yet?
              Thanks for the kind words, Ken. I'm feeling good, yes, but my eyes are still a problem. They're getting better, but only because I don't spend near as much time online as I used to.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            The problems others' complain about, lol. I don't start these threads,
            Sheesh, thought you perhaps might understand the post.. My bad.

            I'll leave it at this -

            Do you see both side acknowledging theres a huge problem? Do you see any wringing of the hands on both sides?
            Thats precisely the issue. Pointing out one sides discontent isn't pointing out "common ground'.Understanding that there is not the same problem for both sides however might get you there.

            FL is a corporation that sees good people hired and fired and people go and people come. Its extremely doubtful they see the people leaving as totally irreplaceable as many of you think they are (and frankly they would be partly right. IM - mostly MMO here - is not rocket science)..

            I've managed to make a good deal of money and a nice living without any of the people you listed as leaving. Many others has as well so obviously they are not indispensable. shucks none are at the level of Frank Kern in popularity - no IM rockstars. Still. do I think there are problems? Sure. I just don;t buy the common theme that FL is run by a bunch of dolts so I look for more rational reasons you don;t see them quite as upset or crying the sky is falling.

            but anyway knock yourself out thinking when you refer to problems from one side the other side should see it as a huge problem for them too - when in life people don't always have the same goals or priorities;.

            We can have tens more whine fests that way
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        After all, an undetected cancer is usually far more destructive than a known cancer.
        You got my thanks on that post for this profound chunk of forum wisdom. Quite well stated, as is most of your stuff. I hope the best for you with your eyes. I'm using a pair of blue light blockers and f.lux and that seems to help me a bit when I am on screens.

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Sheesh, thought you perhaps might understand the post.. My bad.

          I'll leave it at this -

          Do you see both side acknowledging theres a huge problem? Do you see any wringing of the hands on both sides?
          Thats precisely the issue. Pointing out one sides discontent isn't pointing out "common ground'.Understanding that there is not the same problem for both sides however might get you there.


          Oh I get that, but I said "potential" common ground because I took Dan S.'s post the way several others did when he said something like "going at it again, guys?" I thought he thought it was the same group as before. It could have been potential common ground if he didn't realize the criticism was from a different group and ifFL was interested in working together with the members. They indicate they want to from time to time, and I haven't given up on them doing so...or perhaps I should say, I hadn't given up on them doing so at the time of that post. I'll leave that right there.

          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          You got my thanks on that post for this profound chunk of forum wisdom. Quite well stated, as is most of your stuff. I hope the best for you with your eyes. I'm using a pair of blue light blockers and f.lux and that seems to help me a bit when I am on screens.

          Cheers

          -don
          PM'd you about that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      Are we doing this again guys?
      Dan,

      I don't see this issue solving itself. Maybe it's time for a WAMA featuring you or Moss. If FL cares about the issues being brought up by membership, you need to consider an open dialogue.

      If FL doesn't care about the concerns or suggestions of the membership, just come out and say so. Tell us that it's your way or the highway. Lay down the law and be done with it. You'll probably initially lose a large contingency, but the band-aid will be ripped off and you won't have to deal with the grumblings any more.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      Are we doing this again guys?
      Big Mike, Jason Kanigan, and Ewan Mack aren't doing it again.

      That is a problem for most people. Yes, they have their detractors. Some of those haters do nothing but spew their negative, vile, poison almost everywhere they post. Consider the ones rejoicing and how much they've contributed versus the ones that see this as a bad day.

      Please note that these 3 guys have been 3 of the most helpful people here over the years.

      They also are not the ones bitching, complaining, whining and making a mess of things for the community or management. They aren't sig whores. They aren't dropping spam links. They aren't causing fights. They aren't posting unreadable drivel.

      It's going to be very hard (next to impossible) to find 3 new people to come close to the help, insight, contributions, and advice they've offered over the years.

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        Big Mike, Jason Kanigan, and Ewan Mack aren't doing it again.

        That is a problem for most people. Yes, they have their detractors. Some of those haters do nothing but spew their negative, vile, poison almost everywhere they post. Consider the ones rejoicing and how much they've contributed versus the ones that see this as a bad day.

        Please note that these 3 guys have been 3 of the most helpful people here over the years.

        They also are not the ones bitching, complaining, whining and making a mess of things for the community or management. They aren't sig whores. They aren't dropping spam links. They aren't causing fights. They aren't posting unreadable drivel.

        It's going to be very hard (next to impossible) to find 3 new people to come close to the help, insight, contributions, and advice they've offered over the years.

        Mark
        Even though Mark had misunderstood who Dan was referring to, he is spot on with what he is saying here.
        These guys are really solid Warriors ( including Mark) who have rightfully commanded respect from droves of other Warriors here over the years
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      • Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

        I'm done. I'm no longer going to try to help you broke people for next to nothing.
        Jason I counted about 25 WSO's you have had on here over the last few years. You are charging $2465.00 for Sales on Fire, that's not quite next to nothing. Seems to me you've been trying to help yourself as well. If you have sooo many profitable corporate clients then why waste your time here with so many WSO's? You want us to believe it is altruism, really? Instead of selling sales training here you could go, you know, actually sell something.

        If I sound harsh it's because I'm tired of the grandstanding. Further, I'm tired of all the sales gurus on here telling us all how to sell when more and more I have come to see very little proof of them executing all their knowledge. The best salespeople I know of don't spend their time on the WF posting all day and/or pushing their how to sell books, they are out selling and making huge money.

        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        You have demonstrated on numerous occasions that you have an inflexible mindset that functions solely by spouting bromides, trite clichés, psycho-babble and sheer nonsense that you pick-up on self-help blogs. Never anything of value, that can actually help anyone, though.
        Frank you are absolutely the pot calling the kettle black.
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

          Frank you are absolutely the pot calling the kettle black.
          Nope. You're totally wrong since I don't go to bed at night under the misconception that anything I post may actually help anyone. My drivel is meant to be just that - and nothing more. I don't go around acting like I'm Tony Robbins and Mother Teresa rolled into one, like some around here.

          Sorry that was lost on you. If you don't like reading my drivel, please utilize the 'ignore' button. Funny how no one ever does that. lol

          Cheers. - Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
          I've noticed a lot of you have been harping on Jason about him being done and saying well leave then. I had to go back to the OP to re-read it because I thought I must have missed something, and nowhere did I read that he wants to leave the forum and not come back as he was simply stating that his time is valuable and he won't be giving any personal help anymore for nothing, remember the member in question reached out to Jason via pm Jason did not twist his arm with a spammy sales pitch or anything of the sort.




          Originally Posted by mobilemarketer2012 View Post

          Jason I counted about 25 WSO's you have had on here over the last few years. You are charging $2465.00 for Sales on Fire, that's not quite next to nothing. Seems to me you've been trying to help yourself as well. If you have sooo many profitable corporate clients then why waste your time here with so many WSO's? You want us to believe it is altruism, really? Instead of selling sales training here you could go, you know, actually sell something.

          If I sound harsh it's because I'm tired of the grandstanding. Further, I'm tired of all the sales gurus on here telling us all how to sell when more and more I have come to see very little proof of them executing all their knowledge. The best salespeople I know of don't spend their time on the WF posting all day and/or pushing their how to sell books, they are out selling and making huge money.

          Yes he was charging a hefty price for that WSO but that is what he valued it at, and I visited that thread after reading your post and I got to say that all the comments of people satisfied with the value the received explains why he is charging what he is. Honestly do you think that you would be better off with one of the many $7 wso's.

          The best salespeople I know of don't spend their time on the WF posting all day and/or pushing their how to sell books
          How do you know that he spends all of his time on the forum all day long

          they are out selling and making huge money.
          I believe that's what he was doing with his $2465.00 price tag.

          I've been gone from the forum for quite some time now because it's been deteriorating quite quickly since Freelancer took over, it was already falling for quite while as it is since it became a free forum.

          When the Warrior forum was a paid forum it was considered where the elite hung out and since it was paid the target market was of those who were serious and were ready to take what knowledge they had to the next level. I remember answering questions like "how do I upload a file to my server via FTP or "How do I add a widget to my side bar in wordpress" the members were looking for knowledge on how to do certain IM tasks that were necessary to further their online marketing skills.

          Today all we get is 'How do I make money online" or "I have $2000 tell me the secret on how to get started. Older members get tired of replying to posts from members who are chasing a dollar rather then learning skills or provide value.
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          • Joseph;

            I think you missed the point of my post.

            I don't have a problem with Jason charging a lot for his training and making a profit but his quote was, "I am no longer going to help you broke people for next to nothing". My point was that charging $2465 for training isn't "next to nothing" by most standards. Jason has posted a lot of good content on here, but he has also had 4 or 5 WSO's every year for the last few years. Again, I don't have a problem with that, it's just that it wasn't all about helping people. Also, if you read post #6, you will see that he basically says he is done here.





            Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

            I've noticed a lot of you have been harping on Jason about him being done and saying well leave then. I had to go back to the OP to re-read it because I thought I must have missed something, and nowhere did I read that he wants to leave the forum and not come back as he was simply stating that his time is valuable and he won't be giving any personal help anymore for nothing, remember the member in question reached out to Jason via pm Jason did not twist his arm with a spammy sales pitch or anything of the sort.







            Yes he was charging a hefty price for that WSO but that is what he valued it at, and I visited that thread after reading your post and I got to say that all the comments of people satisfied with the value the received explains why he is charging what he is. Honestly do you think that you would be better off with one of the many $7 wso's.



            How do you know that he spends all of his time on the forum all day long



            I believe that's what he was doing with his $2465.00 price tag.

            I've been gone from the forum for quite some time now because it's been deteriorating quite quickly since Freelancer took over, it was already falling for quite while as it is since it became a free forum.

            When the Warrior forum was a paid forum it was considered where the elite hung out and since it was paid the target market was of those who were serious and were ready to take what knowledge they had to the next level. I remember answering questions like "how do I upload a file to my server via FTP or "How do I add a widget to my side bar in wordpress" the members were looking for knowledge on how to do certain IM tasks that were necessary to further their online marketing skills.

            Today all we get is 'How do I make money online" or "I have $2000 tell me the secret on how to get started. Older members get tired of replying to posts from members who are chasing a dollar rather then learning skills or provide value.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by dansilvestre View Post

      Are we doing this again guys?
      Apparently you missed where I said, "End of conversation." Try to keep up. :-)

      Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author dansilvestre
    Sorry, that might have been misunderstood.

    I was referring to Jonathan 2.0 and BigFrank, not at all the rest of the thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author aleangui
    successful people do what unsuccesful people are not willing to do. success is a mindset my friend always remember that.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by aleangui View Post

      successful people do what unsuccesful people are not willing to do. success is a mindset my friend always remember that.
      Another 'deep' contribution, destined to change someone's life, forever. lol

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        Another 'deep' contribution, destined to change someone's life, forever. lol

        Cheers. - Frank
        Hey Big F,
        Life is focused around having a positive mindset. Anything can be accomplished if you break the chains of bondage that unduly entangle your Mind and Spirit.

        Please do NOT under any circumstance underestimate the power of the human spirit. If harnessed correctly it is an indomitable force to be reckon with.

        Big Frank, anything and I mean anything is possible if only you can release these chains that keep you bogged down in the lake of self- doubt and self- loathing.

        Transform the Energy in your Soul into a Force that will lift your Spirit high in the air ...so high Big F that you will unquestionably reach that highly coveted magical Utopia many people fail to find their whole lives!

        It's all about truly believing in yourself and the potential that God has given to each one of us to do the impossible The Impossible is not only possible but you can actually embrace the Impossible and simply put Big Frank make it your little b@tch

        Peace out :>)
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          Hey Big F,
          Life is focused around having a positive mindset. Anything can be accomplished if you break the chains of bondage that unduly entangle your Mind and Spirit.

          Please do NOT under any circumstance underestimate the power of the human spirit. If harnessed correctly it is an indomitable force to be reckon with.

          Big Frank, anything and I mean anything is possible if only you can release these chains that keep you bogged down in the lake of self- doubt and self- loathing.

          Transform the Energy in your Soul into a Force that will lift your Spirit high in the air ...so high Big F that you will unquestionably reach that highly coveted magical Utopia many people fail to find their whole lives!

          It's all about truly believing in yourself and the potential that God has given to each one of us to do the impossible The Impossible is not only possible but you can actually embrace the Impossible and simply put Big Frank make it your little b@tch

          Peace out :>)
          Thanks for that tip. I'll file that away for a time when I don't have anything real that I can use to accomplish something. I'm sure it will be the answer to all of my problems and allow me to reach new, heretofore unimaginable, if not unattainable heights.

          Thanks, bub. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
            If we have businesses to run, we do exactly that, rather than expressing elongated argument and complaint.

            This place perhaps is going downhill because the assumed almighty are pushing it there.

            If we choose to use forums as a vent rather than a business asset, we should consider taking a step back to revise ourselves and our business plan.

            No-one gets ahead when they are standing in the way of themselves.

            It starts with the mind.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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      • Profile picture of the author gotthrowaway
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author animal44
    If all these posters think the forum has gone downhill, here's a suggestion:

    1. Leave.
    2. Post something useful.

    A forum is only as good as the people who participate...

    Ironic the biggest thread in the forum is a whinge thread...!
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    I stayed up all night trying to figure out where the Sun went.
    Then it dawned on me...
    What I do for a living

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    • Profile picture of the author JennieB
      Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

      If all these posters think the forum has gone downhill, here's a suggestion:

      1. Leave.
      2. Post something useful.

      A forum is only as good as the people who participate...

      Ironic the biggest thread in the forum is a whinge (that's whine, not whinge) thread...!

      The forum isn't Jason's personal marketplace... or anyone else's... If he genuinely wants to help, then he should be posting genuine help, not "here's part of the answer, you'll have to buy my course to get the rest"...
      Yet, there's really no reason to post here unless there is an incentive to do so. Most are entrepreneurs here and they make a living from providing information to those that need it. Without the profit motive, there's no reason to "be helpful" and give it away. It would seem that most business people on an Internet Marketing forum would understand that.

      It's called an Internet Forum and Marketplace and a Marketplace is only as good as the profits it makes, both for those who run the marketplace and for those who sell in the marketplace. No profit = charity
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      • Profile picture of the author animal44
        Originally Posted by JennieB View Post

        Yet, there's really no reason to post here unless there is an incentive to do so. Most are entrepreneurs here and they make a living from providing information to those that need it. Without the profit motive, there's no reason to "be helpful" and give it away. It would seem that most business people on an Internet Marketing forum would understand that.

        It's called an Internet Forum and Marketplace and a Marketplace is only as good as the profits it makes, both for those who run the marketplace and for those who sell in the marketplace. No profit = charity
        Forum rules are that you sell in the classifieds or the WSO forum. The offline forum is for discussion...

        I didn't come on here to sell stuff, I came to offer advice freely...

        Edit: Whenever we've done a workshop offline, we don't hold back any "secrets". We tell all, and inevitably we come away with some clients...
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        Then it dawned on me...
        What I do for a living

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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

          Forum rules are that you sell in the classifieds or the WSO forum.
          Nope.....you can also sell in your signature and even upgrade the ad in your signature. There are no rules that state selling is only for classifieds and WSOs - FL takes in revenue from ads in sigs. So though I agree with you on being honest about it you are dead wrong on that rule. Jason's only problem is he is trying to pretend the money made was inconsequential while essentially claiming it was difficult to close that one sale he is griping about.

          Like it or not. cry and whine about it or not every poll ever taken on this forum has indicated that if you removed sigs from posts less people would contribute.

          You failed to address the simple point you were responding to - incentive. what incentive does a marketerhave to help out. Like the previous poster stated - every marketer ought to understand something so basic.

          the only answer I have heard to that over the years are a few people claiming they just post to help out with charity in mind and my answer is always the same.

          You got to have some pretty messed up priorities with all the worthy charities in the world needing help to skip helping homeless people, orphans. abused women,people dying of cancer, charities that help people feed the starving, big brother big sister programs, assisting rape victims, supporting natural disaster areas, stopping exploitation of children be it physical violence or sexual assault in particular, limiting gun violence, assisting the bereaved and or stopping drug pushers to give any free time charity work to of all people -

          Internet Marketers looking to make a buck.

          Awful priority. Nope - sensible people do their charity work on real charity cases as above not 'help out" on forums. Put down the keyboard and go out there and help your community. Internet marketers begging that people should help them make money while making none of their own are about as selfish and hypocritical as you can get and deserve no charity work.

          I've seen a few people in dire straights I've helped out but by and large as a policy charity begins with real charities not marketers
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            You got to have some pretty messed up priorities with all the worthy charities in the world needing help to skip helping homeless people, orphans. abused women,people dying of cancer, charities that help people feed the starving, big brother big sister programs, assisting rape victims, supporting natural disaster areas, stopping exploitation of children be it physical violence or sexual assault in particular, limiting gun violence, assisting the bereaved and or stopping drug pushers to give any free time charity work to of all people -




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        • Profile picture of the author JennieB
          Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

          Edit: Whenever we've done a workshop offline, we don't hold back any "secrets". We tell all, and inevitably we come away with some clients...
          Good for you. Don't know why anyone would pay for your "secrets" if they can get them for free, but whatever works ... point is, you're still trying to close a deal when you have those "workshops" aren't you? Or you just doing it for your love of humanity?
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          • Profile picture of the author animal44
            Originally Posted by JennieB View Post

            Don't know why anyone would pay for your "secrets" if they can get them for free
            Cynic...

            Here's a little experiment for you.

            Go to the highly classified, top secret tool called Google and type in
            "how to change a tap washer" (tap = faucet for you Americans)
            I get 181,000 results, so not exactly a secret. So why haven't all plumbers gone out of business? Why is it so damn difficult to get a plumber out for such a simple task?

            How about "how to service a ford focus"
            I get 28 million results
            So why hasn't Ford - and every other car dealer for that matter - closed down all their service centres? Why did it take two weeks to get a booking to get ours serviced a few weeks ago?

            What about Jason's "secrets"?

            Well I found one of his posted scripts, almost word for word, in an Ari Galper book, published around 2001.

            But lets go back to that highly classified, top secret tool and type in "script to sell a [insert product here]" I typed in "script to sell a pen" and got 503,000 results. Must be one in there that would help me sell a pen...

            That'll be $200 please...

            To quote Jim Straw's Granddaddy, "There are no secrets, only things we haven't discovered yet".
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            What I do for a living

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            • Profile picture of the author JennieB
              Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

              Cynic...

              Here's a little experiment for you.

              Go to the highly classified, top secret tool called Google and type in
              "how to change a tap washer" (tap = faucet for you Americans)
              I get 181,000 results, so not exactly a secret. So why haven't all plumbers gone out of business? Why is it so damn difficult to get a plumber out for such a simple task?

              How about "how to service a ford focus"
              I get 28 million results
              So why hasn't Ford - and every other car dealer for that matter - closed down all their service centres? Why did it take two weeks to get a booking to get ours serviced a few weeks ago?

              What about Jason's "secrets"?

              Well I found one of his posted scripts, almost word for word, in an Ari Galper book, published around 2001.

              But lets go back to that highly classified, top secret tool and type in "script to sell a [insert product here]" I typed in "script to sell a pen" and got 503,000 results. Must be one in there that would help me sell a pen...

              That'll be $200 please...

              To quote Jim Straw's Granddaddy, "There are no secrets, only things we haven't discovered yet".
              Well if Google were an efficient and cost effective way to do things and everyone possessed the skills to do them themselves and the inclination to do them themselves, which they don't obviously, there wouldn't be much need to sell anything, would there? Who wants to scrounge around info from 2001 or 500,000 Google results to get the information that they need. Not me. I don't want to service a Ford Focus and would rather leave the plumbing to plumbers and don't even want to mow my own lawn, although I could do that.

              Also, I don't put a high value on "free" information and a lot of people don't. If you're catering to freebie seekers, you're obviously not going to make a lot of money. Have you ever tested giving away less in your workshops, raising the price, and making people "hungry" for your product or service?

              People pay for expertise and a good salesman knows how to position himself as an expert. Obviously, your "workshops" are just another way to pitch or you wouldn't be doing it, and I'm dead certain that if your audience weren't as lazy as most people are, they would just Google your info and figure out how to do whatever it is that you do themselves. Oh wait! They don't have to. You give it away for free.

              Maybe Jim Straw should have added - There are no secrets. Only things we'd rather have other people do. lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Hey Jase sorry to see you go man , you gave some great advice better than the so called Experts we have on here !

    BTW what I miss ?

    Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    :

    You must use that a lot in class
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