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They Wouldn't Believe That the Wrights Had Flown

by tagiscom
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Found this very interesting article today....

They Wouldn't Believe The Wrights Had Flown

With plenty of lessons for all, especially the ones that firmly believe that some things just are not true.

I for one was sure that some would go nuts when confronted with concrete proof that they could do it, or something that was supposed to be impossible wasn't.

But from the audiences and reporter responses, not so. And it obviously takes tremendous efforts to get it accepted.

Here are some juicy quotes...

"I know you boys are truthful and if you say you flew through the air in a machine, I believe you. But then," he added, "down there on the Carolina coast you had special conditions to help you. Of course you couldn't do it anywhere else."
One had remarked, just before the Wrights went to Kitty Hawk: "People will fly at the same time they hit on perpetual motion."
When a man of the profound scientific wisdom of Simon Newcomb, for example, had demonstrated with unassailable logic why man couldn't fly, why should the public be fooled by silly stories about two obscure bicycle repairmen who hadn't even been to college?
Unassailable logic, or pig headiness?

As the train sped by they had seen what appeared to be a flying-machine high in the air but it couldn't have been that, because everyone knew flying was impossible. Probably if it was anything it was some kind of new-fangled balloon. If it had been a flying-machine surely there would have been something about it in the newspapers.
Anything else but, lol.

It was Tunison who had turned down the story of the first flight at Kitty Hawk when he had the first chance at it. Having decided that the Wrights were not news, he was naturally irritated to see an occasional reference to them, even on an inside page. "Why do we print such tripe?" he would ask.
His eagle eye spotted an item about the Wrights and their flying machine in a country weekly, the Osborn Local, published in a village a mile or two from the Huffman field. Did he investigate the story? Of course not. Being exceptionally smart, he didn't need to investigate it to know it must be nonsense. No one could fool him.
Exceptionally smart, l guess that made the Wright Brothers more than exceptionally smart?

Not until the formal public demonstrations of flying, from the parade grounds at Fort Myer, in September, 1908, did widespread incredulity about the Wrights' achievements finally cease. Then, at last, everyone, editors and even scientists, agreed that a practical flying-machine was a reality. But the disbelief persisted up to the last minute.
When Orville Wright landed after this flight it was his turn to be astonished. Three or four newspapermen rushed up to interview him, and each of them had tears streaming down his cheeks. The drama of witnessing the impossible had "got" them.
Technology changes, but humans don't, and rigid, 100% belief in something backed up by experts, may be a total lie!

Only throwing away pig headeness and excuses, and actually experimenting with the so called impossible idea or item will show whether it really is true or false.

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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

    Found this very interesting article today....

    They Wouldn't Believe The Wrights Had Flown

    With plenty of lessons for all, especially the ones that firmly believe that some things just are not true.

    I for one was sure that some would go nuts when confronted with concrete proof that they could do it, or something that was supposed to be impossible wasn't.

    But from the audiences and reporter responses, not so. And it obviously takes tremendous efforts to get it accepted.
    Shane; The people that didn't believe it.....doubted it out of ignorance. And many doubted it because it went against their religious beliefs.

    But there were always solid laws of physics that showed how heavier than air flight was not only possible, but how to do it.. And the Wright brothers (and several others around the world at the time, building planes) knew more about physics than the general public, not less.


    It was the greater scientific knowledge that these men had that allowed them to build the first planes.

    The people who didn't believe flight was possible, doubted out of ignorance. But I see quite a lot of the opposite on this forum (and others)...believing something to be true out of ignorance. Because they have no scientific understanding that would show them that the idea they are proposing is utter nonsense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Shane; The people that didn't believe it.....doubted it out of ignorance. And many doubted it because it went against their religious beliefs.

      But there were always solid laws of physics that showed how heavier than air flight was not only possible, but how to do it.. And the Wright brothers (and several others around the world at the time, building planes) knew more about physics than the general public, not less.


      It was the greater scientific knowledge that these men had that allowed them to build the first planes.

      The people who didn't believe flight was possible, doubted out of ignorance. But I see quite a lot of the opposite on this forum (and others)...believing something to be true out of ignorance. Because they have no scientific understanding that would show them that the idea they are proposing is utter nonsense.
      there is impossible and just not possible with current tech ..but when tech is developing at a rapid or exponential pace .. intelligent forward thinking people can start building crazy things or start crazy projects that look impossible now but will be quite possible based on the pace of tech .. and other innovations ..

      so explain that solar panels with large storage batteries from giga battery plants being built all over the world will most likely produce electricity at cheaper rates than burning fossil fuels withing 10 years even if fossil fuels stay at the lower price they are now .and it is hard for most people to grasp.. even if the arab countries alredy get it and are building massive solar projects .
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

        there is impossible and just not possible with current tech ..but when tech is developing at a rapid or exponential pace .. intelligent forward thinking people can start building crazy things or start crazy projects that look impossible now but will be quite possible based on the pace of tech .. and other innovations ..
        I wasn't talking about "Not possible with current tech". I was talking about impossible because it violates several proven principles of reality.

        Many of the discussions here are far worse than impossible. You can discuss something impossible and still use cohesive sentences. Much of what I read here (usually accompanied by a Youtube video) is just disjointed nonsense. Even if it were true, the argument wouldn't make sense.

        One sure sign is if the words "quantum physics" is used to explain their argument. I don't think I've ever seen an exception here.

        Ask a three year old how a TV works. You'll get some imaginative answers, but nothing even remotely possible. But we read similar things here on a regular basis. And if they aren't accepted at face value, we are closed minded.
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        • Profile picture of the author Odahh
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I wasn't talking about "Not possible with current tech". I was talking about impossible because it violates several proven principles of reality.

          Many of the discussions here are far worse than impossible. You can discuss something impossible and still use cohesive sentences. Much of what I read here (usually accompanied by a Youtube video) is just disjointed nonsense. Even if it were true, the argument wouldn't make sense.

          One sure sign is if the words "quantum physics" is used to explain their argument. I don't think I've ever seen an exception here.

          Ask a three year old how a TV works. You'll get some imaginative answers, but nothing even remotely possible. But we read similar things here on a regular basis. And if they aren't accepted at face value, we are closed minded.
          Hey i will admit to being crazy ..the last thing my shrink told me 9 years ago was there was nothing more he could do to help me ..

          I like diging into peoples beliefs to figure out why they believe what they believe..and most importantly do that actually act or do thing that in alignment of those beliefs ..and many believe certain things also tend to believe a set of other beliefs ...

          now where you are a speaker you have probably been in the back room with speakers who put those crazy impossible ideas out there as facts based on quantum physics .. or Law of attraction or what ever popular new crazy beliefs .. so that must be interesting ..
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

            now where you are a speaker you have probably been in the back room with speakers who put those crazy impossible ideas out there as facts based on quantum physics .. or Law of attraction or what ever popular new crazy beliefs .. so that must be interesting ..
            It was interesting. You have to understand that the vast majority of the people I know, and nearly all of the people I love...have firmly held beliefs that I categorize as insane.

            And I've never heard the term "Quantum physics" used correctly by any speaker..or by anyone here. It's universally used (with the exception of maybe by 10 physicists) as a catch all phrase to muddy the waters so that their hair brained idea sounds sort of reasonable...usually to promote a New Age idea or conspiracy theory.. Like 'string theory". It's never used here correctly, or by anyone who could have a remote idea of what it means. It's just verbal filler.
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            • Profile picture of the author Odahh
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              It was interesting. You have to understand that the vast majority of the people I know, and nearly all of the people I love...have firmly held beliefs that I categorize as insane.

              And I've never heard the term "Quantum physics" used correctly by any speaker..or by anyone here. It's universally used (with the exception of maybe by 10 physicists) as a catch all phrase to muddy the waters so that their hair brained idea sounds sort of reasonable...usually to promote a New Age idea or conspiracy theory.. Like 'string theory". It's never used here correctly, or by anyone who could have a remote idea of what it means. It's just verbal filler.
              My Iq is only around 130 .. and i don't have the patience nor the ability to do the math to truly understand what those terms mean .. i'm settled into simulation theory at the moment ..but have the shakespearean idea that all the world is a stage and people merely acting a part ..i also have my idea of what the act going on on the stage is .. nd what part i want to play .

              Our belief systems are just b.s. anyway now in my view .. does the bs you ascribe to make for a better or improving life .. a life where you tolerate or put in coping mechanisms , or do they lead to increasing amounts of missery and suffering bouncing from one disaster to another ..

              for the most part law of attraction string theory, quantum physics .. are in the middle camp
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                .. does the bs you ascribe to make for a better or improving life .. a life where you tolerate or put in coping mechanisms , or do they lead to increasing amounts of missery and suffering bouncing from one disaster to another ..
                Honestly, I don't know what gives a better life or makes people happy.
                I only know that I am in a constant state of low grade nihilism. It doesn't make me happy to be right. And if I find I'm wrong, it just means I just learned the right answer. No joy or anguish...just occasional mild irritation..that's pretty much my emotional range.

                For some reason, badly thought out arguments irritate me. It isn't the person making the argument, but the structure of the argument itself.

                I was in Wal-Mart one day and my employee (the one that wore the bubble suit Riffle sent me) saw me walking toward him from 50 feet away. When I noticed him, I smiled and he told me "I was watching you walk in the isle...glancing at everyone in obvious disapproval". I laughed out loud, because he was probably right.

                Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                but have the shakespearean idea that all the world is a stage and people merely acting a part ..i also have my idea of what the act going on on the stage is .. nd what part i want to play .
                I have long had the feeling that everyone is an actor, including me...just playing their part..unable to change their lines...and neither can I.

                Like a Twilight Zone episode. No idea what causes that feeling.


                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Yukon knows. He was just yanking Kurt's chain.
                Well played.



                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Claude knows. He's just yanking his own string...again.
                With Yukon it's well played. You're just an idiot.
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                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                  I have long had the feeling that everyone is an actor, including me...just playing their part..unable to change their lines...and neither can I.

                  Like a Twilight Zone episode. No idea what causes that feeling.



                  .
                  as far as what causes that.. the answer is "The President of the United stats is Donald trump " not going political here but we are in a world even the best twilight zone writers could not imagine .

                  and mostly everyone else is wandering around in this twilight zone univers not sure what the f ..is going on or nearly clueless about what to do .. surrounde
                  d by a world where stuff you can't make up .. actually happens on a near daily basis ..

                  so understand we ain't in Kansas anymore toto.. and what part to play on this new stage .. is the fun part .

                  in the next few years people will get use to living in crazy world.. but now everyone is trying to figure out.."wait what "

                  so yeah you are in a twilight zone episode
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              It was interesting. You have to understand that the vast majority of the people I know, and nearly all of the people I love...have firmly held beliefs that I categorize as insane.

              And I've never heard the term "Quantum physics" used correctly by any speaker..or by anyone here. It's universally used (with the exception of maybe by 10 physicists) as a catch all phrase to muddy the waters so that their hair brained idea sounds sort of reasonable...usually to promote a New Age idea or conspiracy theory.. Like 'string theory". It's never used here correctly, or by anyone who could have a remote idea of what it means. It's just verbal filler.
              Well that leaves you out....
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Shane; The people that didn't believe it.....doubted it out of ignorance. And many doubted it because it went against their religious beliefs.

      But there were always solid laws of physics that showed how heavier than air flight was not only possible, but how to do it.. And the Wright brothers (and several others around the world at the time, building planes) knew more about physics than the general public, not less.


      It was the greater scientific knowledge that these men had that allowed them to build the first planes.

      The people who didn't believe flight was possible, doubted out of ignorance. But I see quite a lot of the opposite on this forum (and others)...believing something to be true out of ignorance. Because they have no scientific understanding that would show them that the idea they are proposing is utter nonsense.
      One reason why nearly everyone in the United States was disinclined to swallow the reports about flying with a machine heavier than air was that important scientists had already explained in the public prints why the thing was impossible. When a man of the profound scientific wisdom of Simon Newcomb, for example, had demonstrated with unassailable logic why man could not fly,
      http://www.garfield.library.upenn.ed...55y1977-78.pdf

      In 1868, the London Daily Telegraph, likened anyone working with flying machines to be Donkeys.

      No not really Claude, it is more likely that prominent scientists saying that it was impossible to the public, and the public accepting that is what happened.

      So if the guy above had other interests like heavily investing in French hot air balloon tech, he also had that reason to discredit it.

      This sort of crap happens quite often in our world, whereby doing the right thing for the benefit of others is put under the carpet for a secure income and or a quick buck. Or to keep society stable or the Stock Market.

      This has strong parallels with free energy, most think that it is a fringe, quack thing, and the tons of BS, on Youtube don't help, but some do actually work, (one my present gov, is using for our military and not for the general public).

      The people who didn't believe flight was possible, doubted out of ignorance. But I see quite a lot of the opposite on this forum (and others)...believing something to be true out of ignorance. Because they have no scientific understanding that would show them that the idea they are proposing is utter nonsense.
      True, to a point, Flat Earthers only need to put a video camera on a balloon and a lot of string, at different corners of the globe to prove that their theory is false, or the Earth is a sphere, (or is curved).

      Their reasoning seems to go that some crackpot scientist dreamed this up a long time ago, so it could be true. I have seen overwhelming evidence in space related material, so don't delve into it.

      But we also don't have 100% understanding of what the key forces in our universe are, or if time/space/matter/energy and gravity are all one and the same, then just like making electricity me may be able to mess with the others if we know what to build.

      And we certainly don't know what is in the other 10 dimensions, String theory requires to be a viable universal theory.

      I know that hard evidence is in the eye of the beholder, and a lof of people suffer from short sighteness, but just like Warp Drive staying within the speed of light limit, but also breaking it, means that some flexibility is required in evaluating new ideas, (and old ones).

      Yeah, life on Mars, the green on the rocks cannot be algae, it is,... lol, more than 100 years later same recurring pattern,......

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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        http://www.garfield.library.upenn.ed...55y1977-78.pdf

        In 1868, the London Daily Telegraph, likened anyone working with flying machines to be Donkeys.

        No not really Claude, it is more likely that prominent scientists saying that it was impossible to the public, and the public accepting that is what happened.

        So if the guy above had other interests like heavily investing in French hot air balloon tech, he also had that reason to discredit it.

        This sort of crap happens quite often in our world, whereby doing the right thing for the benefit of others is put under the carpet for a secure income and or a quick buck. Or to keep society stable or the Stock Market.

        This has strong parallels with free energy, most think that it is a fringe, quack thing, and the tons of BS, on Youtube don't help, but some do actually work, (one my present gov, is using for our military and not for the general public).

        True, to a point, Flat Earthers only need to put a video camera on a balloon and a lot of string, at different corners of the globe to prove that their theory is false, or the Earth is a sphere, (or is curved).

        Their reasoning seems to go that some crackpot scientist dreamed this up a long time ago, so it could be true. I have seen overwhelming evidence in space related material, so don't delve into it.

        But we also don't have 100% understanding of what the key forces in our universe are, or if time/space/matter/energy and gravity are all one and the same, then just like making electricity me may be able to mess with the others if we know what to build.

        And we certainly don't know what is in the other 10 dimensions, String theory requires to be a viable universal theory.

        I know that hard evidence is in the eye of the beholder, and a lof of people suffer from short sighteness, but just like Warp Drive staying within the speed of light limit, but also breaking it, means that some flexibility is required in evaluating new ideas, (and old ones).

        Yeah, life on Mars, the green on the rocks cannot be algae, it is,... lol, more than 100 years later same recurring pattern,......
        Shane...the Earth needs to be flat (or square/cube, etc) to have corners. Globes and spheres don't have corners.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Shane...the Earth needs to be flat (or square/cube, etc) to have corners. Globes and spheres don't have corners.
          When someone says corners of the earth that's usually insinuating quadrants (each of four parts of a plane, sphere, space, or body divided by two lines or planes at right angles), it can also be a medical or biblical reference, but this is Warrior Forum and anything goes.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        http://www.garfield.library.upenn.ed...55y1977-78.pdf

        In 1868, the London Daily Telegraph, likened anyone working with flying machines to be Donkeys.

        No not really Claude, it is more likely that prominent scientists saying that it was impossible to the public, and the public accepting that is what happened.

        So if the guy above had other interests like heavily investing in French hot air balloon tech, he also had that reason to discredit it.

        This sort of crap happens quite often in our world, whereby doing the right thing for the benefit of others is put under the carpet for a secure income and or a quick buck. Or to keep society stable or the Stock Market.

        This has strong parallels with free energy, most think that it is a fringe, quack thing, and the tons of BS, on Youtube don't help, but some do actually work, (one my present gov, is using for our military and not for the general public).

        True, to a point, Flat Earthers only need to put a video camera on a balloon and a lot of string, at different corners of the globe to prove that their theory is false, or the Earth is a sphere, (or is curved).

        Their reasoning seems to go that some crackpot scientist dreamed this up a long time ago, so it could be true. I have seen overwhelming evidence in space related material, so don't delve into it.

        But we also don't have 100% understanding of what the key forces in our universe are, or if time/space/matter/energy and gravity are all one and the same, then just like making electricity me may be able to mess with the others if we know what to build.

        And we certainly don't know what is in the other 10 dimensions, String theory requires to be a viable universal theory.

        I know that hard evidence is in the eye of the beholder, and a lof of people suffer from short sighteness, but just like Warp Drive staying within the speed of light limit, but also breaking it, means that some flexibility is required in evaluating new ideas, (and old ones).

        Yeah, life on Mars, the green on the rocks cannot be algae, it is,... lol, more than 100 years later same recurring pattern,......
        No editing was required of your post to make it a perfect example of that I was talking about.. Thank you Shane.

        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        When someone says corners of the earth that's usually insinuating quadrants (each of four parts of a plane, sphere, space, or body divided by two lines or planes at right angles), it can also be a medical or biblical reference, but this is Warrior Forum and anything goes.
        Kurt knows. He was just yanking Shane's chain.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Kurt knows. He was just yanking Shane's chain.
          Yukon knows. He was just yanking Kurt's chain.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Yukon knows. He was just yanking Kurt's chain.
            Claude knows. He's just yanking his own string...again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    It was 30 years before germ theory was accepted as scientific fact .. there where a lot of people who benefited from illness being presumed punishment from god ..or some other thing rather little organisms/pathogens

    and it has taken well over 100 years for the idea of good germs and bad germ to enter the terminology..and by treating all germ as bad and killing all of them..you create the environment to evolve stronger bad germs ..

    and the way we raise animals in an industrial ag system is breeding stronger germs that reduce the effect of antibiotics.. but there is so much money involved ..

    now on the other hand when we get into so called evidence that nasa is hiding proof of life or intelligent life on mars. or the worst cover up in history aliens ufo and the like.. or hiding free energy from the world..
    oh wait .. what this thread really about ..
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Not sure how that is an answer to what Claude posted.

    It's one thing to have the knowledge/educational edge to understand how the physics CAN be applied to make something 'work' even though others might not think it possible.



    so explain that solar panels with large storage batteries from giga battery plants being built all over the world will most likely produce electricity at cheaper rates than burning fossil fuels withing 10 years
    Estimates for the tie required to make up the increased cost of adding solar equipment is from 7-20 years....Only after that is it 'cheaper'. That makes solar a hard sell for new home owners who can't add $20k or so to the cost of their new home. Once solar cost has been recouped, it's a great savings - but 7-20 years is a long time to wait before seeing any savings.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Not sure how that is an answer to what Claude posted.

      It's one thing to have the knowledge/educational edge to understand how the physics CAN be applied to make something 'work' even though others might not think it possible.





      Estimates for the tie required to make up the increased cost of adding solar equipment is from 7-20 years....Only after that is it 'cheaper'. That makes solar a hard sell for new home owners who can't add $20k or so to the cost of their new home. Once solar cost has been recouped, it's a great savings - but 7-20 years is a long time to wait before seeing any savings.
      well it's a good thing homes new or old are not the only place you can put solar panels .. better off having trees shading the house in sunny environment with the sunniest part of the roof having a solar hot water heater ..

      Here in Tuscon Arizona .. not so many solar panels on houses .. but the college campuses and some businesses build covered areas to park cars under and mount solar panels on the roofs ..

      so yes new homes or existing homes not the most cost effective place to install solar panels..probably won't be even 10 or 15 years from now

      It's easy to build homes orient to the sun and reduce winter heating and summer cooling cost ..it was figure out 40 years ago.. but we build homes facing the street with no care of where the sun rises or sets..so most roofs of homes are built wrong to get efficiant returns from solar panels..and for most people to access the roof to maintain solar panels..
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    as far as the first recorded flight of the Write brothers .. it really didn't matter to most people untill planes started dropping bombs on people 20-30 years later .. the internet was first inveted in 1983 and turned into the world wide web in 89/90 ..then made available to the public in the mid 90's but wide scale adaptation was only possible after telephone companies stopped charging per minute rates from a lot of services ..

    and only in the last 5 -10 years with the proliferation of cheap cellphones and wifi almost everywhere has it effect the majority of human directly ..

    we can go back to the development curve of computers ....which is why i focus so much on the data analytics .. from all the personal data being collected and stored ..write now it's still in the realm of you need lots of smart /well educated people and expensive computers to crunch the data.. but in a few years or withing a decade .. advance ai or algorithms that are low cost or almost free and off the shell home tech.. with make it available to everyone ..
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I recall deGrasse Tyson talking about how just 2% difference in DNA between us and chimps allowed us to create so much in the way of math, architecture, language, science, etc. He then brought up what if other life forms had a 2% advantage over us.

    Along these same lines of thought, I often wonder how much there is to know that we are simply not smart enough to understand? What if some understanding takes an IQ of 300 to be able to grasp? Surely there has to be knowledge we simply aren't smart enough to understand, just as a dog can't do advanced calculus.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I recall deGrasse Tyson talking about how just 2% difference in DNA between us and chimps allowed us to create so much in the way of math, architecture, language, science, etc. He then brought up what if other life forms had a 2% advantage over us.

      Along these same lines of thought, I often wonder how much there is to know that we are simply not smart enough to understand? What if some understanding takes an IQ of 300 to be able to grasp? Surely there has to be knowledge we simply aren't smart enough to understand, just as a dog can't do advanced calculus.
      for most of the last 10,000 years the high iq was not that helpfull..and the physical disadvantages that many people with high intelligent people have where a huge negative ..

      we have only had a society that has been technically advanced and getting the full use out of the current smartest people in the world ..to advance technolegy for a few hundred years ..and more so the last hundred.. and it has only been the last 50 years where smart people can make high wages for being smart ..

      out technical advancement and level of complextity we have now is with the same dna and same bodies our ancestors had 1,000 or ten thousand or 40,000 years ago ..

      we shifted from physical evolution to technical evolution ..and there have been several periods where it went backwards ..after reaching a peak.. easy ones to point out are Rome and egypt durin the massive temple/pyrymid building times ..

      so what doe a society look like when they continue to develop and say are 100 years ahaed of us..500 ,, 1,000 and at what point along that kind of timeline does tech advancement merge and cause a new burst of biological evolution ..
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Along these same lines of thought, I often wonder how much there is to know that we are simply not smart enough to understand? What if some understanding takes an IQ of 300 to be able to grasp? Surely there has to be knowledge we simply aren't smart enough to understand, just as a dog can't do advanced calculus.
      I've thought about the same thing myself. And it's not even that a dog cannot do advanced calculus. They cannot even know that calculus exists.

      I watch my cats and wonder how they think. Do they know their name? Do they know what a name is?

      Not only are there things that would be impossible for us to understand, but impossible for us to even be aware that they exist. Like the difference between not being able to read the printed word, and not knowing what language is.

      Yeah, I remember the Tyson example..if we could just be 2% more evolved intellectually, what would we be thinking? How would we see reality?

      By the way, the interesting difference between a chimp's brain and a human brain isn't a difference in structure. We simply have more neural connections than they do. And all the genetic differences between chimps and humans? only a couple of genes that affect the brain are different. The chimp's brain is the organ that is most like a human's.

      I wonder if we altered a couple of our genes so that we would be born with twice the neural connections as we have now? What would we be like?
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      • Profile picture of the author Odahh
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


        I wonder if we altered a couple of our genes so that we would be born with twice the neural connections as we have now? What would we be like?
        we would be just as barbaric as a race as we are today if we started playing with genes to increase certain potentials.. start genetically modifying people ..the same way we are trying to genetically modify plants and animals to get the highest near term profits ..


        do we really need to genetically modify people when so much potential is missed and wasted in people with the system we currently have now ..so genetically modify 1000 humans to be much smarter.. then drop them into single parent households in areas with horrible schools where they will be beaten up and made out cast because they are so smart..

        how many wll actually live up to the potential .. a handful ..

        but no we would make the modifications then test the children and put them in environment to maximize their potential ..and give them the intense education they will benefit from ..

        we may not have the tech or ability to genetically modify humans.. but we can do a much better job finding those who already have the high intellectual potential than we do now ..
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

          we would be just as barbaric as a race as we are today if we started playing with genes to increase certain potentials.. start genetically modifying people ..the same way we are trying to genetically modify plants and animals to get the highest near term profits ..


          Gene editing is already being done. I think it's fantastic as long as it's done to actually help someone and not with some type of nutty motive.

          Why would anyone want to be born with health defects?

          I have no doubts anyone that's ever had wisdom teeth pulled while in pain would have payed money for gene editing so those teeth never existed. Wisdom teeth eventually hurt like a mofo.
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          • Profile picture of the author Odahh
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Gene editing is already being done. I think it's fantastic as long as it's done to actually help someone and not with some type of nutty motive.

            Why would anyone want to be born with health defects?
            that actually is a good question.. it really depends who gets to decide what qualifies as a defect ..is it on an individual basis .. parent want to know and fix problems along the way..

            but do we start editing for desired traits of the day even though it will be 20-30 years before those traits get put to use in society ..

            so what qualifies as a defect..does really matter..and we are in crazy world so..
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
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              Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

              that actually is a good question.. it really depends who gets to decide what qualifies as a defect ..is it on an individual basis .. parent want to know and fix problems along the way..

              but do we start editing for desired traits of the day even though it will be 20-30 years before those traits get put to use in society ..

              so what qualifies as a defect..does really matter..and we are in crazy world so..

              I don't know but some things are basic, for instance lifetime 20/20 vision would be nice If that was the only option when being born. Having all your fingers and toes in the right places would also be nice.

              No cancer, no organ transplants or waiting list to die from lack of donors. Those are a few things I'd be happy to see fixed.

              Granted when all the worlds/humans problems are fixed we end up as a clone state, right? I'd rather not be knocking boots with a clone of myself, that would be weird for a few minutes.
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                I don't know but some things are basic, for instance lifetime 20/20 vision would be nice If that was the only option when being born. Having all your fingers and toes in the right places would also be nice.

                No cancer, no organ transplants or waiting list to die from lack of donors. Those are a few things I'd be happy to see fixed.

                Granted when all the worlds/humans problems are fixed we end up as a clone state, right? I'd rather not be knocking boots with a clone of myself, that would be weird for a few minutes.
                don't worry about the world human problems ever being fully fixed while there are humans we solve one long time problem create 15 more .. we can double or triple the current lifespan over the next 50 to 100 years ad eliminate the disease of aging so you can permanently stay in your 20's and 30's physically .. and new problems arise ..like what if people decide to get old .. and ok so if you stay young and healthy you are going to be doing some type of work for 100 or 200 years ..

                so what happens if you take away the death part of being alive /human.. and somehow if you do die you grow a new clone and live in that clone..

                now i believe we will slow and reverse the effects of aging and double or triple the potential lifespans but it won't happen for those who eat the standard american diet we have today
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I've thought about the same thing myself. And it's not even that a dog cannot do advanced calculus. They cannot even know that calculus exists.

        I watch my cats and wonder how they think. Do they know their name? Do they know what a name is?

        Not only are there things that would be impossible for us to understand, but impossible for us to even be aware that they exist. Like the difference between not being able to read the printed word, and not knowing what language is.

        Yeah, I remember the Tyson example..if we could just be 2% more evolved intellectually, what would we be thinking? How would we see reality?

        By the way, the interesting difference between a chimp's brain and a human brain isn't a difference in structure. We simply have more neural connections than they do. And all the genetic differences between chimps and humans? only a couple of genes that affect the brain are different. The chimp's brain is the organ that is most like a human's.

        I wonder if we altered a couple of our genes so that we would be born with twice the neural connections as we have now? What would we be like?
        Another difference between the brains of chimps and humans is that human brains are 3-4 times larger.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    Claude's cat has a 2% advantage.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Claude's cat has a 2% advantage.
      Must be a pretty stupid cat.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    No editing was required of your post to make it a perfect example of that I was talking about.. Thank you Shane.
    Ooookkkk.

    Kurt knows. He was just yanking Shane's chain.
    Just as long as he cleans it up!


    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

    I recall deGrasse Tyson talking about how just 2% difference in DNA between us and chimps allowed us to create so much in the way of math, architecture, language, science, etc. He then brought up what if other life forms had a 2% advantage over us.

    Along these same lines of thought, I often wonder how much there is to know that we are simply not smart enough to understand? What if some understanding takes an IQ of 300 to be able to grasp? Surely there has to be knowledge we simply aren't smart enough to understand, just as a dog can't do advanced calculus.
    Nonsence Kurt, a high IQ means that you can read a book and retain more of it than someone with an average IQ.

    I don't think that it has any bearing on thinking?

    Einstein could barely pass an IQ test, but wiped the floor with all of the high IQ dimwits, but he also used silly, stupid techniques like being grateful.

    So l guess that he had an advantage over the rest.

    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

    Claude's cat has a 2% advantage.
    Goes without saying.

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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      Nonsence Kurt, a high IQ means that you can read a book and retain more of it than someone with an average IQ.

      I don't think that it has any bearing on thinking?

      Einstein could barely pass an IQ test, but wiped the floor with all of the high IQ dimwits, but he also used silly, stupid techniques like being grateful.

      So l guess that he had an advantage over the rest.
      I knew someone would take my use of IQ literally instead of in the context it was meant. My point wasn't about whether IQ is an accurate measure of intelligence. Instead, I used it as an easy way to explain the concept of intelligence.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        I knew someone would take my use of IQ literally instead of in the context it was meant. My point wasn't about whether IQ is an accurate measure of intelligence. Instead, I used it as an easy way to explain the concept of intelligence.
        I think that we need to run that past Claude's cat?



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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      Nonsence Kurt, a high IQ means that you can read a book and retain more of it than someone with an average IQ.

      I don't think that it has any bearing on thinking?
      No... IQ is a rating system that compares you to everyone else taking the same test. It has very little to do with memory. It has quite a lot to do with problem solving...which is abstract thinking.


      Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

      Einstein could barely pass an IQ test, but wiped the floor with all of the high IQ dimwits, but he also used silly, stupid techniques like being grateful.

      Shane; You cannot pass or fail an IQ test. He didn't use silly or stupid techniques. Einstein had an IQ of about 160. 100 is exactly average. So he scored as a genius. But Einstein never took an IQ test. The 160 score was given after his death as an estimate.

      The story that Einstein had a low IQ score is a myth. His brain (when autopsied) has far more neural connections in the frontal part of the brain than average. He was gifted.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Discussions of IQ always make me crazy - it's only a potential.

    My Iq is only around 130 .. and i don't have the patience nor the ability to do the math to truly understand what those terms mean .. i'm settled into simulation theory at the moment ..but have the shakespearean idea that all the world is a stage and people merely acting a part ..i also have my idea of what the act going on on the stage is .. and what part i want to play .
    Saying 'only around 130' is an interesting way to raise the subject. I find my IQ an embarrassment because I haven't lived up to the potential. I considered Mensa but after being a guest I decided that intellectual naval gazing is still naval gazing.
    IQ is potential - not realization.

    You have the ABILITY to do abstract thinking - but you may never use the ability for anything other than philosophizing. That may be enough if people are convinced your musings are novel or important but most of us don't reach those levels.

    Neil deGrasse Tyson - there's a genius worth reading!
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  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
    All the discussion above brings it home to me that computers, though intrinsically dumb, will eventually surpass us in intelligence as far as what their output will be to tackling a problem.

    The only reason for that is the multiple connections and simultaneous processing power and speed of doing it they are increasingly acquiring. If you give them all the information of everything we know about, then the perfect memory of having that to search for an answer by cross referencing it "Will" let them come up with an answer much quicker than we can.
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

      All the discussion above brings it home to me that computers, though intrinsically dumb, will eventually surpass us in intelligence as far as what their output will be to tackling a problem.

      The only reason for that is the multiple connections and simultaneous processing power and speed of doing it they are increasingly acquiring. If you give them all the information of everything we know about, then the perfect memory of having that to search for an answer by cross referencing it "Will" let them come up with an answer much quicker than we can.
      i know i'm digging this point up and ou but it has been rolling around for a week.. the devices with this ability will be available to nearly every human being ..able to teach anyone nearly anything ..without the need for great teacher and great schools ..need to learn anything ..

      it will be in the palm of your hand allong with 8 billion other people or 8.5 billion

      the real difference between human and other animals..is we develop many different type of tech that vastly outperform the abilities we evolved to have.. developing computers smarter than us is just the next step in 200,000 years .. and there is no gurantee that we won't have an event that knocks us back or has up go in full reverse then near extintion..

      in which case i will most likely be dead so i don't have to worry about it.. i do have to prepare how i can for the world we are going into
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  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
    Two Wrights don't make a wrong right. Right?
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  • Profile picture of the author IGotMine
    No... IQ is a rating system that compares you to everyone else taking the same test. It has very little to do with memory. It has quite a lot to do with problem solving...which is abstract thinking.
    And recognizing logic?

    If I can look at drawings of five irregularly shaped objects and without moving them, figure out how they all fit together, can I also see the logic in a double-blind tested scientific fact?

    And is the reverse true?

    The story that Einstein had a low IQ score is a myth.
    Perpetrated by people with low IQ's.

    I find my IQ an embarrassment because I haven't lived up to the potential.
    I can relate.

    I also grew up being told I was "stupid" and "weird," which didn't help. I guess having a child who can out-think you before they start first-grade might be a challenge.

    Neil deGrasse Tyson - there's a genius worth reading!
    Best front-man since the late, great Joey Ramone!
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    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
      Originally Posted by IGotMine View Post

      And recognizing logic?

      If I can look at drawings of five irregularly shaped objects and without moving them, figure out how they all fit together, can I also see the logic in a double-blind tested scientific fact?

      And is the reverse true?



      Perpetrated by people with low IQ's.



      I can relate.

      I also grew up being told I was "stupid" and "weird," which didn't help. I guess having a child who can out-think you before they start first-grade might be a challenge.



      Best front-man since the late, great Joey Ramone!
      the myth with eintien was not about iq i believe it was that he was bad at math.. or fail in school.. which was false he failed a college entrance exam given in french when he was 16 ..

      he was reading physics books at 11 .he was a bad student because he is thinking college physics when the teacher is teaching pemdas .many very smart people end up bad students in school because of boredom.. and if there is no financial abilty to get around bad schooling .. and somehow get to college and pay for it
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Countless life forms have thrived on this planet for a lot longer than Homo sapiens without ever needing to know calculus. The jury's still out on whether so-called intelligence is an unqualified benefit or an inherent threat, but technological advances carry at least as much potential for destroying the species as in prolonging it.

    Progress in science is real enough. Progress in human nature, not so much.*




    *@IGotMine: Obviously, I exclude Joey Ramone from this assessment.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      Countless life forms have thrived on this planet for a lot longer than Homo sapiens without ever needing to know calculus. The jury's still out on whether so-called intelligence is an unqualified benefit or an inherent threat, but technological advances carry at least as much potential for destroying the species as in prolonging it.

      Progress in science is real enough. Progress in human nature, not so much.*




      *@IGotMine: Obviously, I exclude Joey Ramone from this assessment.
      And of those countless life forms, I wonder how many have enjoyed a sunset?
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        And of those countless life forms, I wonder how many have enjoyed a sunset?
        Who knows? Like humans, I would expect other life forms to experience much of their environment in ways unique to their species.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Who knows? Like humans, I would expect other life forms to experience much of their environment in ways unique to their species.
          Experience their environment yes. But I don't consider the colors of a sunset to be part of the environment in that it doesn't directly affect living beings. Appreciating and creating art is considered by many to be a big advancement in the intellectual development of humans. Many animals have displayed a wide range of emotions, but how many have emotional responses from intangible things, like the color of a sunset?
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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Many animals have displayed a wide range of emotions, but how many have emotional responses from intangible things, like the color of a sunset?
            Again, we can't know. Of necessity, we view the world from a human perspective. We make the rules about what constitutes a worthwhile experience.

            But even if we're unique in our emotional responses to abstract stimuli, I'm not seeing how that gives us any particular survival advantage.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

              But even if we're unique in our emotional responses to abstract stimuli, I'm not seeing how that gives us any particular survival advantage.
              I don't think our intelligence (beyond what other mammals have) is strictly a survival advantage. But it becomes a huge advantage when waging war with another tribe, and a huge advantage when mating. Intelligence would probably increase your status in the group, giving you more mating opportunities.And it would give you an advantage when making tools.

              That would explain why our brain size kept growing way beyond what was needed to gather food and climb trees.

              Or...we were dropped on this planet by lizard people as an experiment, and they are coming back in invisible ships to harvest us as food.

              I just wanted to make everyone here happy.
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I don't think our intelligence (beyond what other mammals have) is strictly a survival advantage. But it becomes a huge advantage when waging war with another tribe, and a huge advantage when mating. Intelligence would probably increase your status in the group, giving you more mating opportunities.And it would give you an advantage when making tools.

                That would explain why our brain size kept growing way beyond what was needed to gather food and climb trees.

                Or...we were dropped on this planet by lizard people as an experiment, and they are coming back in invisible ships to harvest us as food.

                I just wanted to make everyone here happy.
                cooking and gathering food that requires cooking..harvesting it and remembering where and what time of year to harvest ..the prepare and cook or prepare and store .. more than liklely humans developed or evoled in the tropics not the desert plains of africa.. then moved out from there .. our brains use much of our energy.. primates and apes use much of their day harvesting chewing and digesting food .. then grooming and attending to social order ..

                so cooking opened up many new sources of calories .. from tubers and other vegetation with some meat in there occasionally .. which led to an increase in the size of the brain that then had to depend on cooked food .. and the social groups developed around harveting storeing preparing and cooking the foods ..to make them yummy
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I don't think our intelligence (beyond what other mammals have) is strictly a survival advantage. But it becomes a huge advantage when waging war with another tribe, and a huge advantage when mating. Intelligence would probably increase your status in the group, giving you more mating opportunities.And it would give you an advantage when making tools.

                That would explain why our brain size kept growing way beyond what was needed to gather food and climb trees.

                Or...we were dropped on this planet by lizard people as an experiment, and they are coming back in invisible ships to harvest us as food.

                I just wanted to make everyone here happy.
                Look, you know perfectly well that it was impossible for upright apes to become Homo Sapiens and that we were genetically engineered to create semi intelligent beings to assist the Illuminati who came from Nibiru. This is the large planet that orbits the Goatee Dwarf star and they hopped over here on it's last approach to mine for gold. The gold was going to be used to repair the stability of their failing atmosphere on Niburu

                Nibiru, because of it's size, had high gravity. That is why the Illuminati were all large beings. Even the Bible talks about there being giants on the Earth in them days.

                Glad I was here to clear that up. Lizard people indeed, in invisible ships...Sheez

                You will be telling us next that history is re-writing itself
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              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I don't think our intelligence (beyond what other mammals have) is strictly a survival advantage. But it becomes a huge advantage when waging war with another tribe, and a huge advantage when mating. Intelligence would probably increase your status in the group, giving you more mating opportunities.And it would give you an advantage when making tools.

                You're talking about degrees of intelligence within the species. My original point (before we started discussing emotional responses) was that intelligence as we describe it in relation to humans, isn't a prerequisite for the successful survival of a species - as other life forms on the planet have clearly demonstrated.

                We're still a relatively young species. Our much-vaunted intelligence could just as easily contribute to our downfall as our salvation.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                  You're talking about degrees of intelligence within the species. My original point (before we started discussing emotional responses) was that intelligence as we describe it in relation to humans, isn't a prerequisite for the successful survival of a species - as other life forms on the planet have clearly demonstrated.

                  We're still a relatively young species. Our much-vaunted intelligence could just as easily contribute to our downfall as our salvation.
                  Our intelligence could contribute to our downfall only because we have developed the technology to do it. It is our base instincts; tribalism, aggression, and our fear of others who are not in our tribe that could cause us to self destruct.

                  And I think about the sequence of near impossible events that redirected our evolution, that even allowed primates to emerge at all...and how unlikely it was that any species developed our level of intelligence, and the ability to construct technology.

                  And Mr. Donovan...

                  From now on, I expect only sycophantic praise from you. I see your intelligence as a threat to my shaky self image. Please dumb it down. Follow Riffle's example.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Our intelligence could contribute to our downfall only because we have developed the technology to do it. It is our base instincts; tribalism, aggression, and our fear of others who are not in our tribe that could cause us to self destruct.

                    Yes. Which is why I said earlier:

                    Progress in science is real enough. Progress in human nature, not so much.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                      Yes. Which is why I said earlier:
                      So, your tactic is to lull me into a sense of complacency by agreeing with me..and then brutally correcting me.

                      Go ahead...correct me one more time and see what happens...

                      One...more...time.
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                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                  You're talking about degrees of intelligence within the species. My original point (before we started discussing emotional responses) was that intelligence as we describe it in relation to humans, isn't a prerequisite for the successful survival of a species - as other life forms on the planet have clearly demonstrated.

                  We're still a relatively young species. Our much-vaunted intelligence could just as easily contribute to our downfall as our salvation.
                  I disagree with some of what you are saying. If we had another Ice age (for example), we would have many casualties sure, but the remainder has the intelligence to move to warmer climes, put on warm clothing and live in heated accommodation. Animals of course are incapable of doing anything remotely close to this. We survive and eek out a living, they don't, all down to intelligence. We adapt instantly, animals can't

                  As for destroying ourselves through war, pollution etc, that's another matter.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                    I disagree with some of what you are saying. If we had another Ice age (for example), we would have many casualties sure, but the remainder has the intelligence to move to warmer climes, put on warm clothing and live in heated accommodation. Animals of course are incapable of doing anything remotely close to this. We survive and eek out a living, they don't, all down to intelligence. We adapt instantly, animals can't
                    Spoken like a true human. Intelligence may well help us adapt, but adaptation in itself doesn't depend on intelligence, as all the existing non-human life forms that have survived ice ages and other cataclysmic events in this planet's history would attest.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                      Spoken like a true human. Intelligence may well help us adapt, but adaptation in itself doesn't depend on intelligence, as all the existing non-human life forms that have survived ice ages and other cataclysmic events in this planet's history would attest.
                      we are the only species that qualifies as a cataclysmic event ..in our planets history..because of our destructive use of science and technology and our selfish believe that all the resources our ours to use up and deplete

                      I like studying human nature.. which is why i find we overvalue intelligence at this point .. the great part about computers being smarter than us .. is they will not have the human nature ..or belief system.. or emotional attachment to having the right answer ..
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

              Again, we can't know. Of necessity, we view the world from a human perspective. We make the rules about what constitutes a worthwhile experience.

              But even if we're unique in our emotional responses to abstract stimuli, I'm not seeing how that gives us any particular survival advantage.
              I never said, or implied, that appreciating art gives us an advantage for survival. Instead, it gives our lives a depth unique to our species. Appreciation for things like art and beauty seems to be a "side effect" of intelligence which is a pretty big survival advantage.
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              • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                I never said, or implied, that appreciating art gives us an advantage for survival. Instead, it gives our lives a depth unique to our species. Appreciation for things like art and beauty seems to be a "side effect" of intelligence which is a pretty big survival advantage.

                Then I don't know why you responded to my point about intelligence not being a prerequisite for survival with your question about appreciating a sunset. I can't see the connection.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                  Then I don't know why you responded to my point about intelligence not being a prerequisite for survival with your question about appreciating a sunset. I can't see the connection.
                  OK, I can see why there was some confusion. I was making a point about the "benefit" (from your comment) of intelligence and I don't consider survival to be the only benefit.

                  There's also the issue of survival...is it in the context of an individual or small group of individuals, or of a species? Intelligence is a big factor in the survival of an individual or small group of beings. But for the survival of a species, it probably doesn't matter much at all, with the ability to reproduce quickly and having a large range of livable habitat being much more important. Luck can also be a factor.
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
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              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Religious people take a few quotes, and twist them into "Einstein believed in god". It makes them feel..... well...smarter.

              Mandella...
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              • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Mandella...
                in crazy world it need to be renamed the trump effect..haha
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Mandella...
                What does a decorative Native American object, derived from a traditional ceremonial shield have to do with this?
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                • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  What does a decorative Native American object, derived from a traditional ceremonial shield have to do with this?
                  I see your sarcasm and raise you some Kit-kats and Jiffy peanut butter.. the unreleased version of star wars where Vader say Luke I am your father
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                  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                    Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

                    I see your sarcasm and raise you some Kit-kats and Jiffy peanut butter.. the unreleased version of star wars where Vader say Luke I am your father
                    I am actually an advocate for a reasonable amount of "Mandela" effects being for real. On another forum I have a 30 page thread running on it.

                    Much ridicule ensues towards me on this but on a few I am adamant and unshakable.

                    No real scientific or other explanations of why or how, though I have speculated, only that is happening and continues to do so.

                    Have you any particular ones that have have made you stop and think or did you just look at a few video's to see what it was about?
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                    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      I am actually an advocate for a reasonable amount of "Mandela" effects being for real. On another forum I have a 30 page thread running on it.

                      Much ridicule ensues towards me on this but on a few I am adamant and unshakable.
                      True, Mark and eventhough l can't get into that subject l would help graphically, (but haven't received anything to date).

                      As for Claude and others, l was able to read most of their comments, and unfortunately agree with Claude, and have images of Dr Jeckyl, with bipolar for the rest.

                      Regardless of all of Einstein's setbacks and rejection by the general public and education, he continued his studies experimentation and work on his theories. In fact, it was not until after one of Einstein's first theories the special theory of relativity was published that the scientific community and the world truly recognized his great talents. However, even then many scientists throughout the world ridiculed him and attacked his theories calling them worthless and useless, and even going as far as saying that Einstein does not have a logical mind.
                      Albert Einstein Success Story - Success Groove

                      Same crap as the Wright Brothers.


                      But enough of this small talk, here are some nutters that didn't believe in the moon landings.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_l...iracy_theories

                      And even after the Chinese space probe landed recently and took this, (concrete proof that they had landed on the moon) some said that the Rabbit rover was also faked.



                      As someone said in a YT video of the above image, "you need a bullet, to convince some".

                      If l believed in that and someone posted the above image, then l would be eating humble pie, not diggin in.


                      And l put up this thread, so show that ideas we currently have permeating throughout society may not be true!

                      And that so called experts may be full of it.

                      Experts usually need grants and an income to do further research, so the rich and powerful are the ones pulling the strings!

                      Evidence speaks volumes, and the inability to see the evidence also speaks volumes.

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                    • Profile picture of the author Odahh
                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      I am actually an advocate for a reasonable amount of "Mandela" effects being for real. On another forum I have a 30 page thread running on it.

                      Much ridicule ensues towards me on this but on a few I am adamant and unshakable.

                      No real scientific or other explanations of why or how, though I have speculated, only that is happening and continues to do so.

                      Have you any particular ones that have have made you stop and think or did you just look at a few video's to see what it was about?
                      well as i pointed out i thought you were being sarcastic with your post so i added some sarcasm of my own ..rarely works out in forum text ..


                      so was confefe just a mispellinh of coverage ..or was it the sign of something sinister
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                • Profile picture of the author yukon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  What does a decorative Native American object, derived from a traditional ceremonial shield have to do with this?
                  Mandella wants us to think it's a decorative Native American object.
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  • Profile picture of the author Odahh
    shane.. why even question weather einstein had a high IQ ..it is a requirement for the level of thinking and physics he was doing ..and the fact that it take people with high IQs to understand much of his work 100 years later ..

    and what makes you think the two qutes you posted are crazy and marks of being insane ..
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    From the movie The Big Short.


    Joe Mobley
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

      From the movie The Big Short.


      Joe Mobley
      Never knew Dan Riffle made any movies?
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          Oh yeah...Riffle and Claude have a long history in Hollywood.
          ( Below) Working on set of their latest Movie, ' Tails' from Wooster, coming out in October
          Good to see you back Discrat.

          Great pic, finally get to see what Riffle looks like and that he shaved the Goatee off.

          A scene from Claude's latest adult feature: "Fully Clothed Sex" The 69 Tapes
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          Oh yeah...Riffle and Claude have a long history in Hollywood.
          ( Below) Working on set of their latest Movie, ' Tails' from Wooster, coming out in October
          OK...to be completely fair...that photo is damn genius. I strongly suspect it was taken at the Green Leaf Restaurant...where Riffle and I were fighting over the check. For some reason, whenever Riffle and I get together, the shirts come off pretty quickly.

          And good to see you back, Robert.
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat


            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            OK...to be completely fair...that photo is damn genius.
            And good to see you back, Robert.
            Yeah, well I think Riffle is overly exaggerating the 'money shot' expression. Claude's good but not that good

            Thanks Claude

            PS. They deleted my initial post ?? Wierd
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            Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    It's Mini-Me and Fat Bast@rd trying to do a Cincinnati Steamroller.
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  • Profile picture of the author chawlarelocation
    Nice Article
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  • Profile picture of the author simonmc
    Hey Claude, people use quantum physics to shovel cash into their pockets. Not the actual quantum physics of course but just by mentioning it is part of their solution. Quantum physics is therefor capable of creating massive wealth :-)

    I'm working on a quantum physics funnel to syphon off all the left over cash from Warrior products that just didn't deliver the 110% promised. I'm almost there but finding myself stuck in the 3rd dimension.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by simonmc View Post

      Hey Claude, people use quantum physics to shovel cash into their pockets. Not the actual quantum physics of course but just by mentioning it is part of their solution. Quantum physics is therefor capable of creating massive wealth :-)

      I'm working on a quantum physics funnel to syphon off all the left over cash from Warrior products that just didn't deliver the 110% promised. I'm almost there but finding myself stuck in the 3rd dimension.
      "Quantum physics" is like "String theory", They are the new versions of "Scientifically speaking..." and "According to science....."

      I remember years ago when every New Age idea was talking about "Vibrations" and "Frequency". Words used, without understanding...

      I've never seen an exception here.
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