big crypto story

3 years ago

Thanks for your thoughts, Kay.

Weirdly enough before I read your post, earlier today my crypto teacher weighed in on this event and a step by step how he's handling it with a special email into my inbox (inboxes of all
his students), for which I'm thankful.

I'm thankful I'm not using FTX.

I see where you're coming from about giving huge money to politics.

And I'm not withdrawing from crypto just because of this setback. My teach says setbacks happen in all kinds of industries periodically.

And, the gem of his I always refer to:

"Don't invest what you can't afford to lose."

Man has that saved my butt a lot.

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socialentry

Banned 3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

When I realized he was managing other people's crypto.....I looked for articles criticizing the risks he was taking and found none. My personal thought was I wouldn't leave my money in a fund if I found the head dude was spending tens of millions on politics. I decided crypto must be different. Looks like I wasn't crazy after all.

how evil.

he clearly should have spent it on drugs and hookers instead.

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Kay King

3 years ago

Maybe he did - point, is I am really skeptical of the 'he's totally broke' story. If he had that much wealth and didn't shelter some of it for himself....he's a fool.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Maybe he did - point, is I am really skeptical of the 'he's totally broke' story. If he had that much wealth and didn't shelter some of it for himself....he's a fool.

He was a genius as of two weeks ago. All his net worth was tied into the hundred different businesses tied to the crypto exchanges. Almost all digital assets that are now worth 0 . And all probably owing large amounts of money to some creditors or clients.

Anything socked away won't do him any good for the prison time he might be looking at.

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Kay King

3 years ago

We don't know that he broke the law, do we? Businesses go broke every day. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a marketer here post 'high risk - high reward'.....

"High risk" can also mean 'go broke fast' but that part is seldom mentioned. I think the full inside story on this news item will be interesting. This guy seemed to have brilliant business acumen but not a lot of common sense.

Edit: Seems like funds just 'disappeared'...so that prison comment might be spot on...

Analysts said millions of dollars worth of assets had been withdrawn from the platform.

These are listing as 'unauthorized withdrawals'....

FTX statement is 'we've been hacked'.....right.

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Troy Arrandale

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

We don't know that he broke the law, do we? Businesses go broke every day. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a marketer here post 'high risk - high reward'.....

"High risk" can also mean 'go broke fast' but that part is seldom mentioned. I think the full inside story on this news item will be interesting. This guy seemed to have brilliant business acumen but not a lot of common sense.

Edit: Seems like funds just 'disappeared'...so that prison comment might be spot on...

These are listing as 'unauthorized withdrawals'....

FTX statement is 'we've been hacked'.....right.

Interesting! I'm learning more about this here rather than following the news about it.

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socialentry Banned 3 years ago

Originally Posted by Troy Arrandale

Interesting! I'm learning more about this here rather than following the news about it.

that statement is scary. r u sure u should hav dineros in crypto at all.
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savidge4

3 years ago

here is the thing... Crypto being out in the ether is subject to the ability to get hacked. If its online it can and will be hacked - that is just a given. There is literally no such thing as 100% secure anything online.

Until "Secure" happens I just dont think Crypto stands a chance.

And I am not about to say that the system that is currently in place is "Secure" either, but for better or for worse it is far more secure.

You can be out and about and get mugged and someone steal your wallet... you might loose a small amount of money and credit cards etc that can be shut off and any charges will be reversed. A crypto wallet... you can lose everything.

Think back to the Whale that had all that cash in Shibu coin.. and the market was in flux because of the possibility of them selling.... how many people do you think were trying to crack into those digital wallets? Not only did they know they existed... they knew the direct addresses need to access them.

This scenario playing out with FTX doesnt surprise me in the least. Just imagine what will happen if govt try this, with a decentralized centralized digital currency - it will be a poop show.

And the worst part is... KNOWING the pitfalls - and "pitfalls" is an understatement... KNOWING that a centralized bank will be holding a kick ton of digital currency to distribute across a world economy will be sitting there for the taking - it WILL be taken. Then what?

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Troy Arrandale

3 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

here is the thing... Crypto being out in the ether is subject to the ability to get hacked. If its online it can and will be hacked - that is just a given. There is literally no such thing as 100% secure anything online.

Until "Secure" happens I just dont think Crypto stands a chance.

And I am not about to say that the system that is currently in place is "Secure" either, but for better or for worse it is far more secure.

You can be out and about and get mugged and someone steal your wallet... you might loose a small amount of money and credit cards etc that can be shut off and any charges will be reversed. A crypto wallet... you can lose everything.

Think back to the Whale that had all that cash in Shibu coin.. and the market was in flux because of the possibility of them selling.... how many people do you think were trying to crack into those digital wallets? Not only did they know they existed... they knew the direct addresses need to access them.

This scenario playing out with FTX doesnt surprise me in the least. Just imagine what will happen if govt try this, with a decentralized centralized digital currency - it will be a poop show.

And the worst part is... KNOWING the pitfalls - and "pitfalls" is an understatement... KNOWING that a centralized bank will be holding a kick ton of digital currency to distribute across a world economy will be sitting there for the taking - it WILL be taken. Then what?

If it's truly decentralized and not the centralized decentralized you mention, I've been taught that every transaction is registered clearly in the blockchain.

I've been somewhat active on a decentralized social media site and I can access all the previous transactions ad infinitum so easily when I want.

Love that.

So,
hackers can get around that in a truly decentralized site? So their "hack" transactions or movements wouldn't show up?

Thanks
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savidge4

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Troy Arrandale

If it's truly decentralized and not the centralized decentralized you mention, I've been taught that every transaction is registered clearly in the blockchain.

I've been somewhat active on a decentralized social media site and I can access all the previous transactions ad infinitum so easily when I want.

Love that.

So,
hackers can get around that in a truly decentralized site? So their "hack" transactions or movements wouldn't show up?

Transactions are only recorded if they are done through a proper transaction point, IE Crypto .com as an example.

google "crypto wallet hacking" and follow that rabbit hole... You will quickly see that how $1,000,000 was stolen here and $5,000,000 was stolen there and the big daddy of them all being the 2016 Bitfinex heist at 8 BILLION worth - there were some arrests made recently of folks trying to launder this - a whopping 6 years later

Ronin got hit for 500 MILION in April March time frame...

The stories are endless... as long as the transaction are not going through an exchange... they are literally un-trackable - and it is THIS idea from inception that made the whole thing "Decentralized". It was quickly figured out that there needed to be a tracking system in place. The ability to look up any and every transaction including IP's and the like is no longer what I would consider "Decentralized" ( the list has to exist somewhere ) and in unto its self is just silly once you think about it. Knowing where "money" came from and went to and its exact digital location - uh DUH - thats just trouble waiting to happen.

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Riggs

3 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Transactions are only recorded if they are done through a proper transaction point, IE Crypto .com as an example.

All blockchain transactions are broadcast through public ledgers to ensure they're recorded in a cryptographically verifiable way irrespective of whether or not such transactions are carried out between two parties privately or via a centralised exchange.

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savidge4

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Riggs

All blockchain transactions are broadcast through public ledgers to ensure they're recorded in a cryptographically verifiable way irrespective of whether or not such transactions are carried out between two parties privately or via a centralised exchange.

Coin mixing?

Tor?

Logless VPN?

Digitial anything no matter how anyone tries can be manipulated.

Can any of these be tracked eventually... sure BUT we hear a lot of well some hacker in Russia got away with... and thats the end of that.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Troy Arrandale

If it's truly decentralized and not the centralized decentralized you mention, I've been taught that every transaction is registered clearly in the blockchain.

I've been somewhat active on a decentralized social media site and I can access all the previous transactions ad infinitum so easily when I want.

Love that.

So,
hackers can get around that in a truly decentralized site? So their "hack" transactions or movements wouldn't show up?

Is the system fragile or resilient or is it difficult or easy to use. Crypto without exchanges might be resilient but it's not that easy to use and doesn't work well as a currency with the volatility in the market.

Yes the transactions of crypto on the blockchain are transparent but the amount parties in the transactions can easily hide their identity when off of an exchange. When Bitcoin was under 100 or under 1000 dollars the exchanges where not really needed.

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DWolfe

3 years ago

Caught the very last seconds of Jim Cramer, on CNBC last night, talking about this incident. His response at the very end. When it comes to Crypto Sell just Sell now.

I see damage control by other companies has already begun. This was in my email this morning from Uphold

" Hi ***,

During these turbulent times, we write to remind you that Uphold is different and better protects you and your digital assets.

Unlike firms in the news this week, we never loan out your money and are always 100%+ reserved.

For eight years, we have embraced radical transparency to reassure our 10 million customers that their funds are secure and always available.

In fact, we're the only trading venue that has always provided real-time proof of reserves. Take a look here.

While these practices may not always make the news, we feel it's the right thing to do, and sometimes boring can be better.

Cheers,

Team Uphold "

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Artkantos

3 years ago

Originally Posted by DWolfe

Caught the very last seconds of Jim Cramer, on CNBC last night, talking about this incident. His response at the very end. When it comes to Crypto Sell just Sell now.

Clear buy signal! The inverse Cramer ETF is a thing, probably one of the most successful ETF's out there, just listen to Cramer and do the opposite!

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Princess Balestra

3 years ago

The prahblem with most gateways to paradise used to be findin' the fkrs.

rn yr discrimination tools are less geographical an' more intrinsically sensibyool.

Plus'n also, smellin' a rat at 50 paces nevah grows old.

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Kay King

3 years ago

Yes the transactions of crypto on the blockchain are transparent but the amount parties in the transactions can easily hide their identity when off of an exchange. When Bitcoin was under 100 or under 1000 dollars the exchanges where not really needed.

Wasn't that one of the biggest selling points when crypt was new? The anonymity? No visibility, no oversight, no tracking....no protection?

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Wasn't that one of the biggest selling points when crypt was new? The anonymity? No visibility, no oversight, no tracking....no protection?

Yea then it went full get rich quick as long as more and more people where willing to buy in.

So from black market form of money to highly speculative digital assets. With a built in limit to how many there would be. So sense the first Bitcoin run up to 20,000 the anonymity was taken away .

And never developed into a real currency for every day use . And considering how many institutional investors where just burned hard by the ftx collapse. They will be the ones to demand regulations on crypto. Yesterday. The attempt to create something in opposition of the current system either fail just becomes the system or worse than the system.

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socialentry

Banned 3 years ago

Originally Posted by Odahh

Yea then it went full get rich quick as long as more and more people where willing to buy in.

So from black market form of money to highly speculative digital assets. With a built in limit to how many there would be. So sense the first Bitcoin run up to 20,000 the anonymity was taken away .

And never developed into a real currency for every day use . And considering how many institutional investors where just burned hard by the ftx collapse. They will be the ones to demand regulations on crypto. Yesterday. The attempt to create something in opposition of the current system either fail just becomes the system or worse than the system.

it seems that the only solution to this conundrum is fire.

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savidge4 3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Wasn't that one of the biggest selling points when crypt was new? The anonymity? No visibility, no oversight, no tracking....no protection?

Yes, this is the case, and very quickly "Transparency" took hold - I suspect as a protective measure, because the dark side of these transactions is all but clear.

To have any path to being legitimate and going mainstream, there had to be this sense of security... when in fact everyone that uses Crypto for any amount of time understands there is none... with the exception of offline wallets... which you lose and throw away and spend millions digging up a garbage dump - or you forget the password or the device you are keeping said information on goes bad

The entire process is riddled with plausible failure.

And I am not about to say that the current banking system is any better - its not in the least... between stolen credit card numbers and quick claim deeds and any and everything else there are BILLIONS in losses every year, year in and year out.

In both cases - security is the issue... and blockchain does indeed correct many of the issues...but there are still to many ways to side step the blockchain path to a more secure line of transactions.
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Princess Balestra

3 years ago

Drackulah turns to his gals.

"What is is about the word CRYPT that scares everyone so?"

His gals giggle in unison, then offah up their necks to his eternally devourin' wondahs.

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tagiscom

3 years ago

Read about it today in the Financial Review, and apparently so called Stablecoin, went from $16,000 to $1 then since no one propped it up, zero!

And there is a big selloff globally since it has dawned on investors that there is no such thing as a diversified portfolio in this.

Even had a picture of a sad Crypto, Guru who was wiped out and clueless as to how it happened.

Elites are pushing for a one world currency and BC threatens it, so they will do whatever they can to trash it.

I have kept away from it, since in AU, l can't trade it anyway in no reputable format.

ETF,s are far better.

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socialentry

Banned 3 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Elites are pushing for a one world currency and BC threatens it, so they will do whatever they can to trash it.

That's a excellent idea. Imagine all the money and human capital could be saved if it weren't for the tyranny of exchange rates.

We can only hope that the United Nations raises an army pronto and starts conquering countries that disagree. However,I think this might not be feasible in the short term so maybe they should just send commando units to destroy bitcoin farming operations.

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tagiscom

3 years ago

Originally Posted by socialentry

That's a excellent idea. Imagine all the money and human capital could be saved if it weren't for the tyranny of exchange rates.

We can only hope that the United Nations raises an army pronto and starts conquering countries that disagree. However,I think this might not be feasible in the short term so maybe they should just send commando units to destroy bitcoin farming operations.

if you want to invest, "loose term" in this then be my guest, the days of BC achieving its glory days is over for some time.

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socialentry Banned 3 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

if you want to invest, "loose term" in this then be my guest, the days of BC achieving its glory days is over for some time.

Indeed, investing in BC is a very bad choice.

The UN is bound to win against its mortal enemies in the end. It must ... for the sake of all mankind.
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- tagiscom 3 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by socialentry
  
  Indeed, investing in BC is a very bad choice.
  
  The UN is bound to win against its mortal enemies in the end. It must ... for the sake of all mankind.
  
  Lol, Bill Gates funds about 15% of the UN, (go look it up) which makes the UN a Muppet Show billboard poster!
  
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  socialentry Banned 3 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tagiscom
  
  Lol, Bill Gates funds about 15% of the UN, (go look it up) which makes the UN a Muppet Show billboard poster!
  
  Wow, I did not know. that's so cool. Bill Gates is a really nice and smart guy.
  
  Rejoice tagiscom: with Bill Gates on our side, a UN Victory is all but assured.
  
  Next stop: One World Government and a New World Order coming to your locale. Also one world currency = cheaper goods so I'd hold off upgrading your PC for just a little bit more.
  
  Originally Posted by Kay king
  
  Not up to me to save people from their own decisions.
  
  Now THAT would be a scary proposition.
  
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Odahh 3 years ago

Originally Posted by socialentry

That's a excellent idea. Imagine all the money and human capital could be saved if it weren't for the tyranny of exchange rates.

With 80 percent of the the transactions in the world being in US dollars and 90 percent of the the debt in the world being owed in US dollars that is about as on currency as things can get.

The USA didn't even have to invade anyone to slow down crypto. All the regulators had to do was work with ftx to centralize as much of the crypto space as possible. And with this collapse. There won't be wide scale adoption of crypto without the big institutional investors working with the regulators to craft regulations.

People wanted the right to take the risk and now many have lost a lot of money. Now they will run to the government and beg for protection.

What is needed as most money transactions stay digital is a way for one person to transfer money to another person that works as easy as handling someone cash.
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Wealthkey

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

WF is not a crypto forum - as we all know. Those threads are confined to the OT section. This story is worth posting here, though.

The total collapse of FTX was a total 'surprise' - and regulators were 'shocked'.... Is that the story the public is expected to believe?

Bankman-Fried was a big political donor - REALLY big. Wonder if he was smart enough to tuck some money away to support himself...just in case. According to him and the news articles he went from $16 billion to $0 worth....is that even possible?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ncy-investors/

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/11/inves...quences-lehman

I found this story fascinating because I first heard of Bankman-Fried on a newscast during the political campaign months - about the huge amts of money this guy was giving to one political party.

When I realized he was managing other people's crypto.....I looked for articles criticizing the risks he was taking and found none. My personal thought was I wouldn't leave my money in a fund if I found the head dude was spending tens of millions on politics. I decided crypto must be different. Looks like I wasn't crazy after all.

Heck of a crypto story.

I was reading about it on online and it is beyond shocking but then again Crypto as a whole is a very risk investment so it wasn't quite shocking. Personally I think there is more to this than we actually know. there's still something hiding and some information missing.

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Wolak31 3 years ago

Total 'surprise' - and regulators were 'shocked'.. LOL... it is a ponzi scheme.. you cannot earn 15% interest on shitcoins...
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Kay King

3 years ago

Reuters, citing two people familiar with the matter, reported that at least $1 billion of customer funds had disappeared, and that people told the news outlet that Bankman-Fried had secretly transferred $10 billion of customer funds from FTX to his trading company Alameda Research.

Like I said earlier - he's not broke....sounds like he may have been using FTX to prop up his 'other' companies....or funneling money through other companies for a nest egg?

I don't understand why financial agencies/regulators/experts don't seem to see a mess like this coming. Arthur Anderson, Lehman - not like this is the first crash and burn we've hard of.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Like I said earlier - he's not broke....sounds like he may have been using FTX to prop up his 'other' companies....or funneling money through other companies for a nest egg?

I don't understand why financial agencies/regulators/experts don't seem to see a mess like this coming. Arthur Anderson, Lehman - not like this is the first crash and burn we've hard of.

Well alameda research is bankrupt to the money was lent to invest heavily in ftt which is now worth zero. And is part of what brought down ftx.

This time it looks like most or all of them where paid off

As we get further away from wealth based of real things used to actually increase and build wealth and more into financial instruments. Derivatives, and digital assets that have no real value without Ponzi schemes attached. We will just see more of this more often.

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Kay King

3 years ago

Of course you can - when the interest is 'on paper' or 'online' and not cold, hard cash in your hand.

I've always been a crypto skeptic and was told "you just don't understand it". I'm pretty bright and if I have to 'study it' just to understand how a fictional 'currency' works....I don't believe it will be mainstream any time soon.

That said, like many others I wish I had bought 10-20 bitcoin when it started...would have sold it the minute it hit five figures most likely.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Of course you can - when the interest is 'on paper' or 'online' and not cold, hard cash in your hand.

I've always been a crypto skeptic and was told "you just don't understand it". I'm pretty bright and if I have to 'study it' just to understand how a fictional 'currency' works....I don't believe it will be mainstream any time soon.

That said, like many others I wish I had bought 10-20 bitcoin when it started...would have sold it the minute it hit five figures most likely.

Well much of the Bitcoin people acquired at those low prices was lost from people forgetting their passwords or losing the storage media.

That my issue with crypto is the only real value at this point is the speculative value.

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Odahh

3 years ago

As more and more big players in the crypto exchange space collapse. The exchanges where not banks but they where seemingly all engaged in the worst practices of banks. Lending customers money to each other to heavily invest in ftt and these other crypto exchange based tokens that are now worth nearly zero. Or zero.

I guess when your a genius you can see how you could make something like this work where so many geniuses before you burned down.

How do we prevent geniuses in the future from doing such exceptionally stupid stuff like this that threatens large numbers of people.

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Kay King

3 years ago

How do we prevent geniuses in the future from doing such exceptionally stupid stuff like this that threatens large numbers of people.

Not up to me to save people from their own decisions. Scammers will scam - and those who believe they can get rich will give it a shot.

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Odahh 3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Not up to me to save people from their own decisions. Scammers will scam - and those who believe they can get rich will give it a shot.

Well I agree. But they people where fine taking the risk of buying crypto and losing money if it went down in price.

Not losing their money because the exchange was lending their money to other entities to make risky investments and manipulate the market against them.
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DWolfe

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Odahh

The exchanges where not banks but they where seemingly all engaged in the worst practices of banks. Lending customers money to each other

As posted above in post 9 at least one company does not lend out their money. Since that was posted another company sent me a statement. That they do not lend out money. It might be because they are based in the US, I would not include all.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Lol, Bill Gates ..(go look it up) ...

Nah no thanks. He may send the Illuminati after you

Please try to keep this thread on topic.

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Kay King

3 years ago

One of the reason it is 'high risk' is because there are many risks - such as mismanagement.

This story keeps going deeper - into donations made - and which country will prosecute, etc.

One of the more interesting aspects is the idea floated that the celebs who did paid ads for this exchange...should be liable for some of the losses.

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DWolfe

3 years ago

Just saw this posted a few hours ago in a CNBC article

Part of the article below, full story follow the link - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/17/ftx-...son-block.html

"FTX collapse an example of 'greed and FOMO,' says short-seller Carson Block

Carson Block, founder of short selling investment firm Muddy Waters, thinks the collapse of cryptocurrency exchange FTX under Sam Bankman-Fried is a "great example of greed and FOMO."

Block told CNBC's "The Exchange" he had seen the business trajectory of the former billionaire and thought there was "obviously something wrong."

″[Bankman-Fried] went from zero to, I'm worth 20 billion dollars, I'm putting our logo on major league baseball umpire uniforms and on the Miami Heat area. It seems like really trying hard to establish yourself as a household name."

Bankman-Fried has not responded to a previous CNBC request for comment. A spokesperson for FTX did not immediately respond.

Block said he had concerns about Alameda Research, the trading firm SBF co-founded that was recently revealed to have borrowed billions in FTX customer funds without their knowledge and contributed to FTX's bankruptcy. Block said a September 2021 article found Alameda's assets were substantially in the cryptocurrency solana, which at the time was plunging in value, raising questions about its debt and source of funds.

"When nobody's minding the store and there's very little regulation and it's an asset that is of questionable reality, this is what you get," he said.

Block is a crypto sceptic who described the recent surge into the industry as a bubble based on a "suspension of disbelief." .......

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Kay King

3 years ago

I was watching some clips of Bankman-Fried in various interviews and with some politicians and had to wonder .....how did anyone take this guy seriously?

I guess money totally clouds people's minds....he 'borrowed' 3 billion for himself - bought houses for employees - had a girlfriend with no experience working at the top level. It is truly amazing that no one - NO ONE - said 'that guy is nuts'....or questioned why he couldn't explain how his money was being made.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I was watching some clips of Bankman-Fried in various interviews and with some politicians and had to wonder .....how did anyone take this guy seriously?

I guess money totally clouds people's minds....he 'borrowed' 3 billion for himself - bought houses for employees - had a girlfriend with no experience working at the top level. It is truly amazing that no one - NO ONE - said 'that guy is nuts'....or questioned why he couldn't explain how his money was being made.

They where being paid off. He was smart enough to figure out how to to legally get money into the hands of anyone who could or should have raised red flags.

Well the shark tank guy , black rock all the financial influencers and big name celebrities eve the head of the the SEC was on board. The only people who where not on board up to a few weeks ago could only get their message out to channels with at most a few hundred thousand views.

And forget getting anyone get five figure checks a month or more from ftx to listen or even give a chance to let their audience listen.

And when this guy actually doesn't grasp what he was doing was in any way wrong and believe he was actually onto the forum for infinite money.

The authorities need to arrest this guy quickly. The guy is apparently still just walking around the Bahamas with no security

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savidge4

3 years ago

Just because I can... Did anyone know that the Central Bank here in the States passed the use of a CBDC on Nov 23rd? Not in effect yet... but it will be.

an interesting article ( https://www.institutionalinvestor.co...hological-CBDC ) written in August no less that describes.

Obviously an American CBDC coin would have a set by default stabilized value of $1.00.. would NOT run on through a blockchain - so basically the exact same system that is currently present with the added security issues of being online - without any amount of current technology to maybe make it secure - basically a 20th century system in a 21 century world - All backed by the fed ( i feel better now )

I have a question... how many of us can use Digital anything to buy stuff... like gas? or for those that might have an electric car, car charging? ( aside from Tesla Dogecoin ) Can you buy groceries? can you shop on Amazon? eBay? anything?

I look atit this way... its not "Currency" until you can buy stuff with it.. and the absolute mind-boggling physical shift needed to implement something like CBDC across all of society? Just not seeing it anytime soon

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tagiscom

3 years ago

Originally Posted by savidge4

Just because I can... Did anyone know that the Central Bank here in the States passed the use of a CBDC on Nov 23rd? Not in effect yet... but it will be.

an interesting article ( https://www.institutionalinvestor.co...hological-CBDC ) written in August no less that describes.

Obviously an American CBDC coin would have a set by default stabilized value of $1.00.. would NOT run on through a blockchain - so basically the exact same system that is currently present with the added security issues of being online - without any amount of current technology to maybe make it secure - basically a 20th century system in a 21 century world - All backed by the fed ( i feel better now )

I have a question... how many of us can use Digital anything to buy stuff... like gas? or for those that might have an electric car, car charging? ( aside from Tesla Dogecoin ) Can you buy groceries? can you shop on Amazon? eBay? anything?

I look atit this way... its not "Currency" until you can buy stuff with it.. and the absolute mind-boggling physical shift needed to implement something like CBDC across all of society? Just not seeing it anytime soon

Even though DC has taken a hammering lately they want to use it in the multiverse, or their version of it.

Apparently you can buy virtual real estate for 10k, (yep really) then pay a virtual architect, (yes they really exist) to put a virtual house on it, or build your own.

BC may be stumbling in the real world but will do better in the currently pretty basic online world.

Probably take a good 40 years for it to really take off, (computer games, Super Mario 1990's- present day).

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Even though DC has taken a hammering lately they want to use it in the multiverse, or their version of it.

Apparently you can buy virtual real estate for 10k, (yep really) then pay a virtual architect, (yes they really exist) to put a virtual house on it, or build your own.

BC may be stumbling in the real world but will do better in the currently pretty basic online world.

Probably take a good 40 years for it to really take off, (computer games, Super Mario 1990's- present day).

The cbdc has nothing to do with with crypto. It will be a central ledger at the central banks where digits get moved from on account to another. That is as simplified an explanation as possible.

It will be more like food stamps than crypto.

So in the next recession where the government chooses to issue stimulus. Instead of checks people will have to take their real I'd and sign up for a cbdc account.

And they will get a card like a food stamp card.

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savidge4 3 years ago

Originally Posted by Odahh

The cbdc has nothing to do with with crypto.

I would say this is what "They" want you to believe. I am about to sound like an absolute conspiracy theorist here... CBDC is the Crypto killer... A currency the world over that can be tracked down to the last dollar - who has what and how much... thats the long term goal here - THATS why you read many speaking up about the danger of such an animal.

Oh its just a digital dollar - they say... Remember not to long ago Canada's govt locking protesters bank accounts? They wont need a subpoena or leaked list... they will already know who spent what and where... and if the powers that be do not agree with how and why YOU the individual is spending or transferring funds... they will shut you down... its not an if and when thing... this is already happening, and again Canada and trucker protest funds would be an example.

There is absolutely no room in the world of Govt for funds that can be transferred and not tracked / taxed... You want to sit at home and get paid to do nothing? This is exactly how they can insure they are getting their share.

Just wait til mid January this coming year with the internet lighting up with "whao is me" over the States $600 1099 requirement - its going to be an absolute crap show. I can only imagine it will be an absolute record breaking tax collection year for the federal Govt.

I can bet 40% of Americans ( or greater ) will be in debt to the US Govt - watch and see - and my guestimation is they will try and implement the CBDC then, to ensure people start paying off the debt.
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Kay King

3 years ago

its not "Currency" until you can buy stuff with it

Exactly! In the earlier days of BitCoin some of the proponents were keeping a list of 'businesses that accept digital currency'. Not a single business on that list that I would buy from to begin with.

Currency is only good to me if I can pay bills and/or spend it without having to go through a clearinghouse to change the currency into something else.

Back to the OP - did anyone watch the 'interviews' Bankman-Fried has been giving? The guy is totally delusional. I bet his lawyers are going crazy if they haven't quit already. This man seems to think losing billions of other people's money is an 'oops'.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Exactly! In the earlier days of BitCoin some of the proponents were keeping a list of 'businesses that accept digital currency'. Not a single business on that list that I would buy from to begin with.

Currency is only good to me if I can pay bills and/or spend it without having to go through a clearinghouse to change the currency into something else.

Or to change the digital currency into a currency you can actually use to pay bills. And that the currency doesn't inflate in value by 20 times in a few months then drop back down by 75 to 80 percent or more a few months later.

I don't understand why people can't separate crypto and Bitcoin. From a central bank digital currency which is just digital fiat tied to the value of the green stuff in the pockets of people in the USA. With numbers printed on them that people accept the value of because that's what the government says they are worth.

As for sbf there is a good amount of Stockholm syndrome going on or what ever it is called when so many people who where suckers are now defending the guy.

Wait until the stock market fall s for an extended period of time in the next recession and the safe index fun investments turn out not to have been that safe. The people who built mini air bnb empires are watching those collapse as Airbnb fees go higher than hotel fees.

We are witnessing the collapse of "passive income "

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tagiscom

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Odahh

As for sbf there is a good amount of Stockholm syndrome going on or what ever it is called when so many people who where suckers are now defending the guy.

Wait until the stock market fall s for an extended period of time in the next recession and the safe index fun investments turn out not to have been that safe. The people who built mini air bnb empires are watching those collapse as Airbnb fees go higher than hotel fees.

We are witnessing the collapse of "passive income "

Safe fun you mean self managed ETF's, like the Green investment package, etc.

I guess some might cry over those doing poorly but they only make 3% per annum so apart from self managed trendy 401k's or Super as we call them no blood lost.

The market doing poorly is near impossible as reverse ETF's tend to cover that.

But l have seen some lose a lot on Binarys, then earn some more and blow that. Then yeah,.

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Kay King

3 years ago

...and that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

Interesting article on how this will be investigated is below

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...ested-yet.html

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

...and that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

Interesting article on how this will be investigated is below

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...ested-yet.html

Ok thank you for that article so it could be years before there is any trial if there is.

From my understanding the missing money we talked about in the first few days of the thread was actually handed over to the authorities in the Bahamas and not hacked. And the guy taking over the company who handled the Enron liquidation. Definitely backs up that it's the biggest mess he has seen.

So i guess that is what I'm hearing and considering a defense . It's more people talking part of the blame who should have done more oversight with the large amount of money they where putting in.

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Kay King

3 years ago

Just wait til mid January this coming year with the internet lighting up with "whao is me" over the States $600 1099 requirement - its going to be an absolute crap show. I can only imagine it will be an absolute record breaking tax collection year for the federal Govt.

Thinks this could be why IRS is hiring another 80,000 agents and more than doubling its size?

(not a political comment - just a factoid).

What Canada did to the truckers was a loud wakeup call for the US - if anyone was listening, that is.

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Kay King

3 years ago

I've read a couple financial type articles in the past week where CRYPTO experts (who are IN the field, not just discussing it) are predicting more bankruptcies of crypto holding, etc.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/c...cy-2022-12-01/

And the bankruptcies are feeding lawyers with some interesting cases:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uverify%20wall

The consensus seems to be that blockchain uses will grow and and beuseful - but that crypto's future remains questionable.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I've read a couple financial type articles in the past week where CRYPTO experts

The consensus seems to be that blockchain uses will grow and and beuseful - but that crypto's future remains questionable.

Blockchain as a technology and crypto as an asset class . As a currency though not so much.

But I'm biased as I have never seen crypto as a potential currency. Crypto benefits much better than gold when governments print money as interest rates go up and money supply tightens crypto falls in value.

Many of the problems we are seeing in the crypto space was because after 12 years of quantitative easing and historically low interest rates. People didn't think interest rates would ever go up. And they must not have known the central banks could tighten supply.

I'm tacking this on the downturn in crypto is going along with the tech industry as a whole. And a lot of the scetchy crypto coins where created by silicone valley and big tech investors. Ftx was also being run like a big tech company.

We might just be seeing the rise of the technocrats slowdown or reverse for a bit

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Kay King 3 years ago

This story has some humor to it - SBF is now ASKING to be extradited to the US from the Bahamas....maybe the jails here are better?
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Kay King 3 years ago

You know you are infamous when people know you by your initials....

Poor guy - not only did his girlfriend get hit with an ugly stick....she turned on him in a heartbeat.
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Kay King

3 years ago

Defending him? Who? where? All I've seen are people in shock over how much was missed - how easy they were to bilk, etc. Have not seen a single person on the news defending this guy.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Defending him? Who? where? All I've seen are people in shock over how much was missed - how easy they were to bilk, etc. Have not seen a single person on the news defending this guy.

Well until he is arrested and being held. I will have the view he is being protected . The people involved and not demanding his arrest. Are in my view still protecting him. But again what else are these people wrong about. That many more people listen to.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Savage

Because we are unable to have a discussion that doesn't become an argument.

Crypto and blockchain will still be available as a speculative asset class with more regulations than there are right now.

Cbdc is being developed and rolled out but the same organizations that create and manage the current currency system. So when they say cbdc is money now. It will be money.

So cbdc will have nada to do with crypto or blockchain it will be digital fiat.

As far as the1099 thing and the 80,000 irs agents I should not have to wait for thew2 and the 1099 to come in . If everything is getting reported to the irs anyway. I should be able to go to an irs office and get all those documents on one or two forms.

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rpggal33

3 years ago

Crypto is very risky. I am scammed of US$500 because of it.

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Odahh

3 years ago

Looks like the speculation is how long before sbf pleads guilty. And how long before people who received money he was donating have to return it. I believe that it part of the law