Why Do Men Cheat In Their Marriages???

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Chris Rock said that a man is only as loyal as his options.

What do you think??


TL


Ps. I think that we can agree that men cheat more than women, so let's talk only about why dudes do it in this thread and we can open up another thread about the gals.
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Nope. I disagree with the premise. And the question is, frankly, BS in that it only perpetuates the myth.

    And there is no "reason" for marital infidelity.

    Any thoughts offered here will only be excuses that guilty parties have used through the ages - male or female. The comments may be interesting, but excuses nonetheless.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Nope. I disagree with the premise. And the question is, frankly, BS in that it only perpetuates the myth.

      And there is no "reason" for marital infidelity.

      Any thoughts offered here will only be excuses that guilty parties have used through the ages - male or female. The comments may be interesting, but excuses nonetheless.

      All the best,
      Michael
      Be careful up on that high horse, its a long way to the ground.

      According to many, men aren't wired for a single partner lifetime relationship like a marriage. Some men are able to align themselves with what society dictates, some can't.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Michael, that is such a load of crap. You either take commitment seriously and truly love your partner or you don't. Fidelity is not hard wired in, it's a matter of character. Character is both taught and developed, it's not something you are born with.

        I agree with Mike above - it's all just excuses, not reasons. Whether you're male or female.

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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

          Michael, that is such a load of crap. You either take commitment seriously and truly love your partner or you don't. Fidelity is not hard wired in, it's a matter of character. Character is both taught and developed, it's not something you are born with.

          I agree with Mike above - it's all just excuses, not reasons. Whether you're male or female.

          Tina
          I think in a perfect world that may well be true.

          This isn't a perfect world. What benefit is there for a guy to get and stay married when everything in a marriage is slanted to the female?

          And when it comes to something like fidelity in a marriage much of the time what you're calling 'charachter' is nothing more than self detrimental peer pressure induced action.

          How many people do you know that stay in loveless marriages, or stay married 'for the kids' or look at marriage as more of a business arrangement than an expression of love and commitment. If this were a perfect world where marriage actually embodied trust, love and a life partnership, we wouldn't have prenups.

          People just need to get over the notion of marriage and relationships that has been passed down but never really followed. I personally have never cheated on a partner, mostly because i know i wouldnt want it done to me, never messed with someone thats involved with another, because i know how I am, and that can get a person hurt.

          But there are plenty of reasons why people cheat. Are you trying to say that the women that get their a$$es beat like they are property and mess with another person have low character? Is the guy who realized that he's being used for his money by his wife but damn sure doesnt want to lose it in divorce proceedings and goes out to find another of low morals?
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            That's a very anthropocentric perspective, isn't it, Tina? I'm not sure how you'd tie it in with all the biological/zoological evidence of animals that do and don't display "monogamous traits" throughout their sexual lives ... (other than possibly by rejecting any/all scientific evidence on the grounds that "humans are somehow qualitatively 'different' in this regard from any other animals"?) :confused:
            Well, I'm no expert on human behavior, but something tells me that if we weren't taught from a young age about character and fidelity, and our society wasn't built on the moral high-ground, family values thing, that there would be much less monogamy in the world.

            Of course, I'm just speculatin'
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

              Well, I'm no expert on human behavior, but something tells me that if we weren't taught from a young age about character and fidelity, and our society wasn't built on the moral high-ground, family values thing, that there would be much less monogamy in the world.

              Of course, I'm just speculatin'
              Our society is built on family values because it used to be beneficial to the society to have people paired, paying taxes, and producing children. But obviously its family values are not required for the society to run. Again this is a country that has a 50%+ divorce rate.
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              • Profile picture of the author Dana Forsythe
                Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

                Our society is built on family values because it used to be beneficial to the society to have people paired, paying taxes, and producing children. But obviously its family values are not required for the society to run. Again this is a country that has a 50%+ divorce rate.
                I could be wrong but Id say that it sounds like you were in a very bad relationship Michael.

                On that note I venture to say that while there is no excuse for cheating, the man is not entirely to blame. Ive seen men married to women that were absolute tyrants. They have to control everything the man does and needless to say they dont fulfill him sexually. I dont care what anyone says, most men need to be the head of the house. Thats just the way it is, and anytime you see a woman try to step all over the man to be in control, you end up with a twisted messed up marriage where the guy goes to be with other women.

                Now, saying that all men arent wired for marriage and cant be committed isnt true. All men are different. Sure, some cant commit and there are women that are the same way. But lets take my husband for example, hes an ex marine that was previously married to the biggest cheating B on the face of the planet. On top of that she was controling, ugly, and a drunk. Now in this situation youd think most guys would go off and spend time with another women or file for divorce dont you? Well he didnt. He stayed faithful untill the day that she decided she was "too wild" to be married. 2 years later he married me and Hes the most loyal and faithful person Ive ever met. I never even see him look at another women or scantily dressed magazine cover/victorias secret display. He just doesnt seem to care that there are any other women on the face of the planet.

                So some men are quite capable of committing and settling down.
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          • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            That's a very anthropocentric perspective, isn't it, Tina? I'm not sure how you'd tie it in with all the biological/zoological evidence of animals that do and don't display "monogamous traits" throughout their sexual lives ... (other than possibly by rejecting any/all scientific evidence on the grounds that "humans are somehow qualitatively 'different' in this regard from any other animals"?) :confused:

            Humans are qualitatively different from all other animals in many
            ways. If humans are genetically predisposed to multiple sexual
            partners... if... still, we most certainly are capable of being
            different in the regard under question.

            I'm not sure why you would conclude her comment results from
            an anthropocentric perspective. Fidelity and character certainly
            do have an influence. It seems your comment is based on some
            established proof that cheating is genetically driven in humans.

            I do not know if there's any solid scientific proof regarding
            a human genetic tendency toward multiple sexual partners. If someone
            claims to have such proof, it would have to be pretty impressive
            to say the least. If anyone can reference this proof, preferably
            by not merely pointing to a book, then I would appreciate it if
            it can be posted.

            I usually don't offer opinions about things, but regarding this issue
            I believe it's weakness and nothing more. Any attempts to rationalize
            it are a refusal to accept responsibility for this behavior.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        Be careful up on that high horse, its a long way to the ground.

        According to many, men aren't wired for a single partner lifetime relationship like a marriage. Some men are able to align themselves with what society dictates, some can't.
        Equating Michael O's comments about accountability to being on a high horse reminds me of the saying "Obsession is what lazy people call dedication".

        Marriage is a choice.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    There are many people - men and women - that view commitments to a marriage different than commitment to a "one-partner" sexual relationship. That's why there are swingers, etc.

    The "accepted" viewpoint in most society (and in MY household ) is that love, sex and marriage is all pretty much tied together. You commit, you commit to all of it.

    But many don't.

    In fact, I read someplace (and I will try to find this) that monogamy is NOT programmed into us - quite the opposite.

    Interesting stuff (the human mind and behavior).

    I was raised to be loyal to one partner, so I am. But it's not the same for everyone. Polygamy still exists and is accepted in some cultures. Instead of being judgmental because they do things differently than I do, I accept it as their way.

    Let me see if I can find that research...

    Oh, TL... some of the latest research on cheating show it's pretty much evenly split these days - women are as likely to cheat as men. That started changing when more and more women joined the workforce.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Marriage is a choice. Now if we only lived in a magical land where people stayed the same forever everything would be peachy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Marriage is a choice. Now if we only lived in a magical land where people stayed the same forever everything would be peachy.
      Ain't that the truth.

      I get that people change. That still doesn't mean they have to cheat.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        The major problem with marriage is the same problem in IM - people fail to realize that it takes work. Life isn't a fairy tale and there isn't any "happily ever after". There are highs and lows in a marriage, just as any other part of life. Some people use the low to bail on the marriage because it's easier than putting the work into it.

        What benefit is there for a guy to get and stay married when everything in a marriage is slanted to the female?
        I won't even touch that remark - all I can say is ?

        How many people do you know that stay in loveless marriages, or stay married 'for the kids' or look at marriage as more of a business arrangement than an expression of love and commitment. If this were a perfect world where marriage actually embodied trust, love and a life partnership, we wouldn't have prenups.
        Um, it really doesn't matter what other people do, does it? That doesn't change anything. Of course it's not a perfect world but someone else doing something wrong does not justify us doing something wrong. That logic is a bit like my kids when they wanted something, "but Mom, everyone else is doing it".

        Are you trying to say that the women that get their a$ beat like they are property and mess with another person have low character? Is the guy who realized that he's being used for his money by his wife but damn sure doesnt want to lose it in divorce proceedings and goes out to find another of low morals?
        You get beat, you leave. Or you brain the guy in his sleep. Two wrongs don't make a right.

        Just because I think it's wrong does not mean that I don't have sympathy in certain situations. I've been in some pretty rocky situations with two marriages so I can understand some of the "reasons". I think it's a moral failure but we all have those - ain't no one perfect. I don't judge others based on making a mistake. Of course, repeat those mistakes over and over and you're kind of inviting judgment at that point...lol.

        Tina
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post


          I won't even touch that remark - all I can say is ?
          Its true, everything from the beginning of the marriage to its end is slated to the benefit of the female. And if a guy dares not agree with the bias of what society dictates as a 'good' marriage, then he is obviously some kind of morally compromised individual.
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          • Profile picture of the author tjmiller
            Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

            Its true, everything from the beginning of the marriage to its end is slated to the benefit of the female. And if a guy dares not agree with the bias of what society dictates as a 'good' marriage, then he is obviously some kind of morally compromised individual.
            Wow! I do not get this one at all. Since when does a man not benefit in a marriage?

            And as far as cheating vs "swinging" etc that some of you are discussing. I personally am turned off at the idea of swinging but that in my mind is not "cheating" in the same way. I still think that it is a minefield full of repercussions and regret, but if both parties know and agree then it is still "playing by the rules." Even if the rules are skewed according to many people.

            What I consider cheating, and VERY WRONG, is doing something that you know will hurt the person you have vowed to cherish and protect. If you can't keep it in your pants, and you are going to cause damage anyway, just make it a clean break. Then you are free to spread it around all you want.
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        • Profile picture of the author Radix
          It's hard to say why men cheat and the argument concerning evolutionary or genetic predispositions is a cop out. If those arguments had any bearing we'd all be living in the Thunderdome. Furthermore, we are hardly the cave dwelling brethren we like to associate ourselves with when it suits. When was the last time you guys caught your dinner?

          My dogs are animals on every level. Yet I have taught them:

          1-no drinking from the toilet
          2-no butt licking around me..theirs or mine
          3-no fighting
          4-your toilet is outside
          5-shoes are not food

          We have a contract. They observe the rules I have taught them and in return I don't punish them. They are predisposed to disobey all of those things, but they do not. The rewards far outweigh the punishment.

          Marriage is the same way, but significantly more complicated by idiots. The dog can't and really doesn't need to rationalize a transgression, while a human will.

          Which is more intelligent?
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
            Originally Posted by Radix View Post

            It's hard to say why men cheat and the argument concerning evolutionary or genetic predispositions is a cop out. If those arguments had any bearing we'd all be living in the Thunderdome. Furthermore, we are hardly the cave dwelling brethren we like to associate ourselves with when it suits. When was the last time you guys caught your dinner?

            My dogs are animals on every level. Yet I have taught them:

            1-no drinking from the toilet
            2-no butt licking around me..theirs or mine
            3-no fighting
            4-your toilet is outside
            5-shoes are not food

            We have a contract. They observe the rules I have taught them and in return I don't punish them. They are predisposed to disobey all of those things, but they do not. The rewards far outweigh the punishment.

            Marriage is the same way, but significantly more complicated by idiots. The dog can't and really doesn't need to rationalize a transgression, while a human will.

            Which is more intelligent?
            yeah, but you taught them not to lick buts AROUND YOU....you didnt teach them not to lick buts...its in their nature.
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            • Profile picture of the author Radix
              it's the best I can expect from a dog

              I would have higher expectations for a human
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by Radix View Post

            It's hard to say why men cheat and the argument concerning evolutionary or genetic predispositions is a cop out. If those arguments had any bearing we'd all be living in the Thunderdome. Furthermore, we are hardly the cave dwelling brethren we like to associate ourselves with when it suits. When was the last time you guys caught your dinner?

            My dogs are animals on every level. Yet I have taught them:

            1-no drinking from the toilet
            2-no butt licking around me..theirs or mine
            3-no fighting
            4-your toilet is outside
            5-shoes are not food

            We have a contract. They observe the rules I have taught them and in return I don't punish them. They are predisposed to disobey all of those things, but they do not. The rewards far outweigh the punishment.

            Marriage is the same way, but significantly more complicated by idiots. The dog can't and really doesn't need to rationalize a transgression, while a human will.

            Which is more intelligent?
            By and large, we are what we are from upbringing. Yes, some other factors as well, but upbringing is a big one.

            But the fact hat there are alternative lifestyles says to me that it's not so much having more than one partner, but more the agreement you make with the partner you choose (as you stated).

            My wife will tell you that if you even fantasize about another person, that's a form of cheating. I don't agree, but it's something we both live with.

            Then there are others that get married and are committed in every other way, but actively seek out other partners to enhance their sex lives. Again, by choice. But the part of society that thinks this is immoral will still call that cheating. Is it? If both want this type of thing?

            This is not so black and white sometimes. We have our opinions. The thing here is to accept that others have different opinions (and lifestyles) and move on.
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            • Profile picture of the author Radix
              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

              By and large, we are what we are from upbringing. Yes, some other factors as well, but upbringing is a big one.

              But the fact hat there are alternative lifestyles says to me that it's not so much having more than one partner, but more the agreement you make with the partner you choose (as you stated).

              My wife will tell you that if you even fantasize about another person, that's a form of cheating. I don't agree, but it's something we both live with.

              Then there are others that get married and are committed in every other way, but actively seek out other partners to enhance their sex lives. Again, by choice. But the part of society that thinks this is immoral will still call that cheating. Is it? If both want this type of thing?

              This is not so black and white sometimes. We have our opinions. The thing here is to accept that others have different opinions (and lifestyles) and move on.

              Absolutely, if me and the dog agree toilet drinking is cool, it's between us and the toilet. It's when we start drinking from other people's toilets that we have problems.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                Originally Posted by Radix View Post

                Absolutely, if me and the dog agree toilet drinking is cool, it's between us and the toilet. It's when we start drinking from other people's toilets that we have problems.
                LOL - I guess I'd better restructure my contract with my dog!
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  • Profile picture of the author Austin E Anthony
    I think people cheat because after a while in marriage, they get bored and they want some spark in their life. I`d never cheat on my wife tho.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I know of a famous football player who told his future wife that there would be others - and she agreed to marry him anyway. ( according to his book )

    I won't reveal his name because that would ruin it for some people.


    TL
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Its the same with people. You can train them to be a certain way, that doesnt mean you change who/what they are, you have just changed who/what they are around you
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    • Profile picture of the author Radix
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      Its the same with people. You can train them to be a certain way, that doesnt mean you change who/what they are, you have just changed who/what they are around you
      To some degree, except even when I'm not there they don't eat shoes, poo in the house or fight...not confident about the butt licking and toilet fountain.

      The expectation remains whether I am there or gone. Even a dog gets that. Shouldn't be that hard for a married man to remember his marriage vows.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        That's a very anthropocentric perspective, isn't it, Tina? I'm not sure how you'd tie it in with all the biological/zoological evidence of animals that do and don't display "monogamous traits" throughout their sexual lives ... (other than possibly by rejecting any/all scientific evidence on the grounds that "humans are somehow qualitatively 'different' in this regard from any other animals"?)
        I do believe that humans are qualitatively different from animals. Whether you believe this is due to the presence of a "soul" or whether it is simply on the evidence of our obviously higher reasoning and cognitive abilities, surely you don't believe that man is just another animal?

        I'm not disagreeing with the concept of monogamy/polygamy being hardwired so much as I don't believe any characteristic is hardwired into a person. Once you start saying one trait is hardwired in, it's a slippery slope, in my opinion. You start (actually we have started) seeing excuses made for every sort of behavior - they can't help being violent, it's in their genes or that person can't help being a horny dog because it's wired into their brains.

        I give the human species more credit than that. We all make choices and we can control our thoughts and behaviors when we choose to.

        Tina
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        • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
          Absolutely, if me and the dog agree toilet drinking is cool, it's between us and the toilet. It's when we start drinking from other people's toilets that we have problems.
          This is one of the funniest things I've read lately! I get the point but it's just put so well...lol.

          Tina
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by Radix View Post

        To some degree, except even when I'm not there they don't eat shoes, poo in the house or fight...not confident about the butt licking and toilet fountain.

        The expectation remains whether I am there or gone. Even a dog gets that. Shouldn't be that hard for a married man to remember his marriage vows.
        But again, the dog is just doing it because even though its a dog, it knows where its at and that you will be home sooner or later.

        and can you really blame the dog on the toilet fountain thing? If you were a dog wouldnt the big cold white water dish be the greatest thing since beef jerkey or the ability to lick yourself?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jagged
    Men cheat because they can...it's as simple as that. For every cheating male there is an accomplice....a female to cheat with.

    Men through history are bred to dominate, to control....In my opinion, it's like everything else....there are men who can handle being in control & then there are men who can not.

    Looking at most men who do not cheat, most have a more dominate female partner.....who most likely is cheating on him....why? Because she can...

    No facts....just an observation...
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Men don't HAVE to cheat, and we ALL know some women DO cheat! Heck, if women never cheated, men couldn't.

    Frankly, marriage IS supposed to be a contract. infidelity IS a breach of that contract and should, as elsewhere, allow the other to consider it SEVERED! Among other things, that means no alimony to the one that breached it, etc....

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Well, dare I mention that we weren't talking about what I believe here, hello? I was only commenting that the perspective you expressed is a particularly anthropocentric one, which I think you'd be hard put to deny?
        No denying it

        Tina
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Now you're just making up your own laws as you go along, as is sometimes your wont, Steve. In all the countries where I know anything about matrimonial law, the "conduct of the parties" is expressly not considered relevant by the courts toward allocating alimony/maintenance, and so on. I don't say that that's universally true, and I acknowledge that neither of us is a lawyer, but it's certainly fair to say that your impression quoted above is, not to put too fine a point on it, far from a "universally accepted" one, even if you might prefer/expect it to be.

        It is NOT my wont to presume that things follow as I feel they should, etc...! It IS a contract! I said SHOULD be treated as such, but it ISN'T! OTHER contracts DO! They treat it in the US like a partnership, and they often hold NO party necessarily at fault. It may go to a court, and if one has far more funds, ESPECIALLY if that is the husband, or in some cases it is the husband REGARDLESS, they give the winner a certain portion of what the other has and/or may earn. That is known as alimony.

        Custody of the kids may also be decided, and often favors the woman as well. Of course, "child support" may be paid!

        HECK, the movie LIAR/LIAR is based on this! The woman entered into a MARRIAGE(contract). The MAN, realizing she may breach it had her sign a prenuptual CONTRACT. She BREACHED IT! She SUED! He LOST because she was a MINOR when she signed the prenuptual. That ALSO made the MARRIAGE contract void! TECHNICALLY, she was owed NOTHING! ONE PROBLEM!!!!!!

        Because they were living together so long, there was a "common law" marriage(contract). IMPLIED contract. And she sued on THAT basis!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    what person in their right mind would enter into such a one-sided contract?
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    • Profile picture of the author Radix
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      what person in their right mind would enter into such a one-sided contract?
      I did and did so willingly and quite happily.

      Sometimes it's nice to have a few folks close that you trust. It's also nice to be able to share life with others. Sex is about 5% of marriage yet it can overshadow the other 95% if people let it. I'm not saying it isn't important, but intimacy can and does occur without sex. Likewise you can have sex with absolutely zero intimacy.

      Marriage can be a gamble. That's why it's so important to choose a partner wisely and nurture that relationship every day.

      My marriage is an equal partnership. I think all that survive the difficulties life can present have to be. I don't know if it will survive the rest of our lives, but I have no regrets if it doesn't. I've gotten out of it exactly what I've put into it.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      what person in their right mind would enter into such a one-sided contract?
      I would and did! Works well for me!

      MissTerraK
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    an equal parternship?

    When you told her you wanted to get married...who got the expensive diamond ring?

    If this marriage goes south, who is going to get the kids and half the others' income FOREVER and who is going to be living in the bachelor apt. cooking on a hotplate?

    You dont even need to be married in some states, common law will still have you giving up half your stuff if your live in gf decides she can do better.

    Its not an equal partnership. If she decides she wants to leave, she will get half your stuff. If you decide you want to leave, she will get half your stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author Radix
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      an equal parternship?

      When you told her you wanted to get married...who got the expensive diamond ring?

      If this marriage goes south, who is going to get the kids and half the others' income FOREVER and who is going to be living in the bachelor apt. cooking on a hotplate?

      You dont even need to be married in some states, common law will still have you giving up half your stuff if your live in gf decides she can do better.

      Its not an equal partnership. If she decides she wants to leave, she will get half your stuff. If you decide you want to leave, she will get half your stuff.
      lol, who said I was leaving?

      I'm not sure where the other stuff is coming from. If she wanted out of our marriage and I had done nothing wrong, she would not be entitled to any more of our collective wealth than she would normally be entitled to. Custody of the children would also be shared equally. Men only get hosed in a divorce if they screwed up. If the woman screwed up, her hosing will be less...I will grant you that only, but she will still be treated in some form of a punitive manner.

      As for the ring, it wasn't that big. It's the rings that follow that get progressively larger so starting small is my best advice.
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    • Profile picture of the author tjmiller
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      an equal parternship?

      When you told her you wanted to get married...who got the expensive diamond ring?

      If this marriage goes south, who is going to get the kids and half the others' income FOREVER and who is going to be living in the bachelor apt. cooking on a hotplate?

      You dont even need to be married in some states, common law will still have you giving up half your stuff if your live in gf decides she can do better.

      Its not an equal partnership. If she decides she wants to leave, she will get half your stuff. If you decide you want to leave, she will get half your stuff.
      Sorry, Michael, that is just BS. My mother married her second husband when I was 30. They were married just over 10 years. He was self-employed and worked "off the books" for his entire adult life. Claimed a loss, or barely any gain on his taxes every year. My mom worked hard, provided him with insurance, and built up her 401k from work.

      When they divorced, he took half her savings, half her 401k, and their house had to be sold to pay for HIS debts, and his tax penalties when the state came after him for sales taxes. He kept his rolls of cash that he had stashed everywhere, and his house that he had before they married.

      Mom bankrolled him for 10 years, and then had to pay him to get rid of him.

      Getting screwed is not restricted to husbands.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by tjmiller View Post

        Sorry, Michael, that is just BS. My mother married her second husband when I was 30. They were married just over 10 years. He was self-employed and worked "off the books" for his entire adult life. Claimed a loss, or barely any gain on his taxes every year. My mom worked hard, provided him with insurance, and built up her 401k from work.

        When they divorced, he took half her savings, half her 401k, and their house had to be sold to pay for HIS debts, and his tax penalties when the state came after him for sales taxes. He kept his rolls of cash that he had stashed everywhere, and his house that he had before they married.

        Mom bankrolled him for 10 years, and then had to pay him to get rid of him.

        Getting screwed is not restricted to husbands.
        One woman getting the shaft in a divorce doesnt even the field for the 100's of 1000's of men that lose their asses every single day in divorces. There are support groups for husbands/fathers getting divorced because they get shafted so hard. Have you ever seen a 'mothers for divorce' rights' group? Nope. But you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one for men, unless you're living out in the boonies. If things are so 'equal' then why doesnt society reflect this? 'Deadbeat dad' is an accepted term for a divorced father not paying alimony. There's no such term for the female...and i doubt its because they always pay their palimony.

        In my hometown, there used to be these apartments that were behind a grocery store, next to a gravel pit. One room efficiency apts. They were nicknamed the heartbreak hotel. Why? Because everytime a guy got a divorce in town, he would end up there while the divorce proceedings were going through.

        Some guys don't cheat because they were able to supress their natural instincts.

        Some guys dont cheat because when they were younger, they initially were excited that a woman would sleep with them more than once. When they got older they came to realize that when you get to be 40ish, got a couple children of your own and you're in such 'fantastic' shape that you've already had 1 heart attack, you're not exactly prime meat for the dating market and the grass truly isn't going to get any greener for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Men get completely hosed in a divorce. Because unless mom is a bomb making crackhead, the children will always go with mom.

    If you're not a knight in shining armor with everyone from the pope to ghandi for character witiness, with a seriously expensive legal defense you're going to lose. Why? Because you're a man, you are already a ******* walking in the door. Obviously its all your fault! Because that is what societ is told.

    If you're a white male...oh my god, you are responsible for everything from every war ever started, to women being second class citizens in this country's beginnings to every child in the ghetto that will never graduate highschool. its all your fault. And unless your wife was caught doing the mailman in your child's crib with barney playing on the bigscreen in the background, you will have your a$$ handed to you in court.

    THAT is what you are walking into in a divorce court. Dont let the judge be a female, because you'll be lucky if you live. The things i've seen done to men in divorces is ridiculous.

    Look at hulk hogan for instance. His wife probably had a budding career as a hooters girl. But because her husband was a world famous entertainer that literally broke his body in his career she had to give up that lucrative career. It wasnt her leaving meat and blood in wrestling rings around the world, flying all over the country breaking bones, suffering bodily injury...etc. But when she decided she wanted to start hammering the poolboy, hogan was kicked out of HIS 6 million dollar mansion and made to pay her 40k a month to support a way of life that she would have never been able to pay for on her own with her limited skill set. You can only sell so many chicken wings.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Well I've never cheated in a marriage or relationship so I guess I don't know the answer to the question.
      I had many chances (wish I had them now) but when I commit to a relationship that's it.
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi Radix,

        I really liked all of your posts above, but I feel you're mistaken in that last one.

        Men only get hosed in a divorce if they screwed up
        I'm not sure how different things are in the US compared to here, but I got the impression they were pretty much the same.

        We have a pressure group over here called 'fathers for justice.' It's a group of fathers who can't get access to their children, amongst other things, and would like to. We have a particularly high suicide rate of single fathers who either got destroyed by the old Child Support Agency or the mothers' actions.

        If you're male and get divorced you get hosed - full stop - regardless of whether you screwed up or she did.

        Example - one of my best friends divorced his wife because she had changed/lost the plot and the relationship was dead. He didn't have anyone else lined up. He gave her everything he had in the divorce courts (which was a lot) but she denied him access to his two young sons and poisoned their minds. He took her to court over access, it cost him a fortune, the court ruled in his favour and noted that the ex-wife was mentally ill, yet still she refuses him access, continues to poison the childrens' minds, and destroys any communication/presents from him.

        There is nothing he can do.

        If you're not married, the woman automatically gets 'parental responsibility' and the male automatically doesn't. The only way you can get it is if the woman offers it, or through the courts. So by default, she can change their surnames, take them to live abroad - and anything of a similar nature, without even informing the father. The father has zero rights.

        Example - me.

        Luckily, even though my ex refused to give me parental responsibility (out of pure spite), I have just about managed to maintain a situation where I have access, although I had to fight to keep it at times (if I ever did anything wrong, she threatened to stop me seeing him) and I had to convince my son not to change his name when she got married, because she had convinced him it was the right thing to do - when he was eight years old. Of course I have always paid his maintenance and done everything else I'm supposed to.

        I've done ten years of this, and thankfully in a few years time he will be grown up, living his own life and I will be free of this nightmare where my desire to know my son can be used as a pawn against me at any given opportunity.

        My own childhood was wrecked by the messy divorce of my parents. I will probably never get married and I'm not sure I will ever recover from the damage caused by living with a lying, cheating woman and the things she did out of spite after we split. Put it this way, I moved out of the area I had grown up in after she slept with almost anyone who fancied it, mainly to 'teach me a lesson.'

        As I said, I'm not sure how it works in the US, but please don't give people the idea that this is the truth -

        Men only get hosed in a divorce if they screwed up
        I feel that my generation and the ones around it are paying the price for years of a society where males had the upper hand in many ways and totally abused it. To try and correct this, things have swung wildly the other way.

        While this mess continues in my country, there is one group that suffers more than any and quite often no-one even recognises how much damage it does - they are the children.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          Hi Radix,

          I really liked all of your posts above, but I feel you're mistaken in that last one.

          I'm not sure how different things are in the US compared to here, but I got the impression they were pretty much the same.
          Things in the US are VERY similar to how YOU describe them there!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Anybody who thinks "everything is slanted in favor of the famale" in a marriage doesn't have a clue. Not even a small one.

    Who does most of the household chores?

    Laundry?

    Childcare?

    Carrying a child for 9 months?

    More concerned about pleasing the other spouse?

    Offers more comfort to those who are sick in the house?

    For the record, there is also a thing called palimony, sometimes it's the husbands who get the "free ride" after a divorce ... AND ... the divorce rate is NOT 50%. That "statistic" was calculated in a way that gave that illusion. Unfortunately, the 50% figure has become accepted as fact by most people who don't look into the actual numbers.

    Anyway, what does the divorce rate have to do with infidelity anyway? Nothing. People don't cheat because they're divorced. HELLO!

    Once they're divorced they aren't cheating.

    ~Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Anybody who thinks "eaverything is slanted in favor of the famale" in a marriage doesn't have a clue. Not even a small one.
      Things are very different these days:

      Who does most of the household chores?
      We split those pretty evenly - especially when you include cutting the grass, shoveling the snow, trimming the hedges...my wife hasn't picked up a lawn and garden tool in the 11 years we've been together

      Laundry?
      She actually does all of it. But before she wrestled mine away from me (and she did) I did my own from the time I was 11 until we moved in together at 35. In my first marriage, I did my own there too.

      Childcare?
      I am lucky - I get to work from home. But even that's more evenly split these days considering the amount of women/mothers inn the workplace today.

      Carrying a child for 9 months?
      I'm afraid men have no say in that one.

      More concerned about pleasing the other spouse?
      Sorry, not sure i understand this one. I am as concerned about pleasing her as she is about pleasing me.

      Offers more comfort to those who are sick in the house?
      Actually, pretty evenly split there two in my house.

      For the record, there is also a thing called palimony, sometimes it's the husbands who get the "free ride" after a divorce ... AND ... the divorce rate is NOT 50%. That "statistic" was calculated in a way that gave that illusion. Unfortunately, the 50% figure has become accepted as fact by most people who don't look into the actual numbers.
      Not nearly as many palimony as there are alimony. And if the divorce % numbers are skewed, what ARE they? You didn't mention... I can tell you that in my family, I was married twice - divorced one (50%), my wife was married twice, divorced once (50%), my father was married twice, divorced once (50%)...

      And before you call us dysfunctional (which I am sure we are ) most of the people I know and have met in life have similar history somewhere in their families. In fact, these days it's getting fewer and further between seeing people celebrating 20 years, 30 years, etc. Sad, but that's what I have seen.

      Anyway, what does the divorce rate have to do with infidelity anyway? Nothing. People don't cheat because they're divorced. HELLO!

      Once they're divorced they aren't cheating.

      ~Michael
      I think that was meant to say that infidelity CAUSES a lot in divorce. It was one of the causes in my first marriage.

      She cheated. I didn't.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        MikeAmbrosio, I would say your wife is a lucky woman. It doesn't happen that way for a lot of us, unfortunately.

        To the OP, you ask about men and want to keep women who cheat separate, but really - is there a difference? A cheater is a cheater, whether male or female. Women cheat and use the same excuses that men do.

        I don't agree that men cheat more than women, either. That's a stereotype just as much as saying that men always get screwed in a divorce.

        Custody isn't even geared towards women anymore. Most courts will go for joint custody unless there is a reason not to. And I thought most states have done away with alimony/palimony? Or is that just in the northeast?

        To those who say perhaps we are not meant to be monogamous - you may be right, who knows? But if that's the case, the person who doesn't want to be monogamous should not enter into a marriage.

        Tina
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

          MikeAmbrosio, I would say your wife is a lucky woman. It doesn't happen that way for a lot of us, unfortunately.

          To the OP, you ask about men and want to keep women who cheat separate, but really - is there a difference? A cheater is a cheater, whether male or female. Women cheat and use the same excuses that men do.

          I don't agree that men cheat more than women, either. That's a stereotype just as much as saying that men always get screwed in a divorce.

          Custody isn't even geared towards women anymore. Most courts will go for joint custody unless there is a reason not to. And I thought most states have done away with alimony/palimony? Or is that just in the northeast?

          To those who say perhaps we are not meant to be monogamous - you may be right, who knows? But if that's the case, the person who doesn't want to be monogamous should not enter into a marriage.

          Tina
          The custody thing depends largely on the state you live in. In NY, we have outdated and archaic divorce laws.

          You can't get a divorce for irreconcilable differences like you can in many states. So when I got divorced, we had to choose a reason. My ex wanted no part of being tagged the one with the infidelities, so I chose the abandonment one, since I moved out.

          And my brother, who has 4 kids, had to fight HARD to get custody of his kids even though:

          - his ex had drug addictions
          - his ex left
          - his ex shacked up with another drug addict
          - she constantly failed drug testing mandated by the family court
          - missed at least HALF of the court dates in the custody case
          - did NOT have a suitable residence to raise 4 kids (failed those state inspections too).

          Finally, on the 9th or 10th time in court, when she failed to show up yet again, the judge said: "Sigh...Ok, I guess you are awarded custody Mr. Ambrosio."

          Flip that around. It would not take 10 trips to court to decide that the father will NOT get custody. In fact, just to get JOINT custody you have to jump through hoops and prove yourself over and over. The mothers don't.

          While things MAY be different than they were years ago, it is still, LARGELY biased towards the mothers - at least around here.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dana Forsythe
            [QUOTE=And my brother, who has 4 kids, had to fight HARD to get custody of his kids even though:

            - his ex had drug addictions
            - his ex left
            - his ex shacked up with another drug addict
            - she constantly failed drug testing mandated by the family court
            - missed at least HALF of the court dates in the custody case
            - did NOT have a suitable residence to raise 4 kids (failed those state inspections too).

            Finally, on the 9th or 10th time in court, when she failed to show up yet again, the judge said: "Sigh...Ok, I guess you are awarded custody Mr. Ambrosio."

            Flip that around. It would not take 10 trips to court to decide that the father will NOT get custody. In fact, just to get JOINT custody you have to jump through hoops and prove yourself over and over. The mothers don't.

            While things MAY be different than they were years ago, it is still, LARGELY biased towards the mothers - at least around here.[/QUOTE]

            Ive seen many cases like that, its just not right when judges do that..
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          • Profile picture of the author staceybrown281
            Whoa! I think most men are born to cheat in their marriages! I say it in general because I experienced it. It hurts a lot. I caught it last year having a mistress. I was shocked when I saw that his mistress was my daughter's grandmother. I cried all night and I didn't expected it. Now, I am the one who supported my 3 kids. I am a man hater!
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          • Profile picture of the author nehaluck11
            I have not so much knowledge about Human Pschychology.But it will be wrong to say that " Men Cheat In There Marriages".I think neither man nor wemen cheats but there are few unwanted facters like misunderstandings makes them to cheat.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

          MikeAmbrosio, I would say your wife is a lucky woman. It doesn't happen that way for a lot of us, unfortunately.

          To the OP, you ask about men and want to keep women who cheat separate, but really - is there a difference? A cheater is a cheater, whether male or female. Women cheat and use the same excuses that men do.

          I don't agree that men cheat more than women, either. That's a stereotype just as much as saying that men always get screwed in a divorce.

          Custody isn't even geared towards women anymore. Most courts will go for joint custody unless there is a reason not to. And I thought most states have done away with alimony/palimony? Or is that just in the northeast?

          To those who say perhaps we are not meant to be monogamous - you may be right, who knows? But if that's the case, the person who doesn't want to be monogamous should not enter into a marriage.

          Tina

          To the OP, you ask about men and want to keep women who cheat separate, but really - is there a difference?

          A cheater is a cheater, whether male or female. Women cheat and use the same excuses that men do.

          I don't agree that men cheat more than women, either. That's a stereotype just as much as saying that men always get screwed in a divorce.


          I guess there is no difference.

          I thought that men and women cheated for different reasons.

          Men because of the way we are socialized.

          I thought that the vast majority of women who cheat are driven to it by the callous and dismissive etc., behavior of their hubby or for revenge.

          Maybe I'm wrong???? ( won't be the first time and it won't be the last time )

          I'm sure learning a lot in this thread.


          TL
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            To the OP, you ask about men and want to keep women who cheat separate, but really - is there a difference?

            A cheater is a cheater, whether male or female. Women cheat and use the same excuses that men do.

            I don't agree that men cheat more than women, either. That's a stereotype just as much as saying that men always get screwed in a divorce.


            I guess there is no difference.

            I thought that men and women cheated for different reasons.

            Men because of the way we are socialized.

            I thought that the vast majority of women who cheat are driven to it by the callous and dismissive etc., behavior of their hubby or for revenge.

            Maybe I'm wrong???? ( won't be the first time and it won't be the last time )

            I'm sure learning a lot in this thread.


            TL
            Men also cheat because of the callous and dismissive behavior of their wives.

            Both sexes cheat for a myriad of reasons. My ex cheated because - well, I don't really know. But I certainly didn't drive her to it. And I didn't cheat on her just to get even. I didn't cheat at all in fact.

            I know people of both sexes who cheat and none of them have a valid reason. They just convince themselves that it's ok because of... XYZ (whatever their excuse is).

            Everyone has their own reasons/excuses.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Ps. I think that we can agree that men cheat more than women, so let's talk only about why dudes do it in this thread and we can open up another thread about the gals.
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            To the OP, you ask about men and want to keep women who cheat separate, but really - is there a difference?

            A cheater is a cheater, whether male or female. Women cheat and use the same excuses that men do.

            I don't agree that men cheat more than women, either. That's a stereotype just as much as saying that men always get screwed in a divorce.
            I am confused.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

              I am confused.
              Dan,

              In the second quote, he was actually answering TMG. Check the quote in his post - those were not his words. He just quoted it wrong in his response

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              • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
                Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                Dan,

                In the second quote, he was actually answering TMG. Check the quote in his post - those were not his words. He just quoted it wrong in his response

                Okay. I see it now. For a bit, I was thinking he had forgotten he started the thread...
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                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                  Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

                  Okay. I see it now. For a bit, I was thinking he had forgotten he started the thread...

                  Stranger things have happened.

                  TL
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    • Profile picture of the author Dana Forsythe
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Anybody who thinks "everything is slanted in favor of the famale" in a marriage doesn't have a clue. Not even a small one.

      Who does most of the household chores?

      Laundry?

      Childcare?

      Carrying a child for 9 months?

      More concerned about pleasing the other spouse?

      Offers more comfort to those who are sick in the house?

      For the record, there is also a thing called palimony, sometimes it's the husbands who get the "free ride" after a divorce ... AND ... the divorce rate is NOT 50%. That "statistic" was calculated in a way that gave that illusion. Unfortunately, the 50% figure has become accepted as fact by most people who don't look into the actual numbers.

      Anyway, what does the divorce rate have to do with infidelity anyway? Nothing. People don't cheat because they're divorced. HELLO!

      Once they're divorced they aren't cheating.

      ~Michael
      Thanks Michael. I wish I could say I was that good of a wife... But unfortunately since I work so much, my wonderful husband ends up doing 80% of the cooking and laundry. I feel terrible about it but no matter how much I plead, he wont wait till Im home to let me do some chores
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm hearing a lot about why humans are not or are able to be monogamous and all about marriage as a contract (which is so only because that is the way our govs and churches have set up our unions to be legally binding).

    When done with perfection, a marriage is a life enhancing experience for both parties. Often, it doesn't turn out that way. Nobody wants a partner that is a 24/7 job. So do we just tip our hats and bid each other adieu, work together to keep it good, or just look for outlets for our frustrations and whims elsewhere?

    As Alexa mentioned - Some species are monogamous, others aren't. From what I can see there is a real suggestion that Humans are not biologically monogamous - but apparently we expect our socialization and intellectual abilities to over-ride our biological tendencies. We consider ourselves in a higher order than animals because we presume our intellect and ability to control our natural inclinations sets us on a pedestal from other animals.

    Being that the question is "cheating", however, and not biological vs. intellectual tendency -- I view the OP as asking why we are such liars and deceivers. We enter marriages willingly then do our best to cover up the fact that we are actually out for number one and will deceive the other into thinking they are living in a situation which does not, in fact, exist as we want them to perceive it to be -- this a one rude form of a control issue - selfishness and desire to keep that which we do not deserve and truth would risk our comfort.

    Being such, instead of telling the other that we are having a problem with fidelity and finding a solution - or being perfectly honest and telling the other that we can no longer remain physically faithful to them and risking having that person decide to leave us, we lie.

    That, in a nutshell, is why we "cheat". We are selfish and very willing to keep another person bound to us that would choose not to be if they knew truth about us.

    We can see this tendency running into other areas of our lives as well. Look at what we see in marketing each day. There are people all over the net who will lie and cheat because they want money.......and are willing to feed on their neighbors to get it. If they are caught, you will hear all that human intellect being used to rationalize their right to swindle others out of their money. But in truth, the action is nothing more than selfishness.

    As long as we live in a world that views selfishness as a negative characteristic, you will have "cheaters" in any area of life you would care to inspect.
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm hearing a lot about why humans are not or are able to be monogamous and all about marriage as a contract (which is so only because that is the way our govs and churches have set up our unions to be legally binding).

      When done with perfection, a marriage is a life enhancing experience for both parties. Often, it doesn't turn out that way. Nobody wants a partner that is a 24/7 job. So do we just tip our hats and bid each other adieu, work together to keep it good, or just look for outlets for our frustrations and whims elsewhere?

      As Alexa mentioned - Some species are monogamous, others aren't. From what I can see there is a real suggestion that Humans are not biologically monogamous - but apparently we expect our socialization and intellectual abilities to over-ride our biological tendencies. We consider ourselves in a higher order than animals because we presume our intellect and ability to control our natural inclinations sets us on a pedestal from other animals.

      Being that the question is "cheating", however, and not biological vs. intellectual tendency -- I view the OP as asking why we are such liars and deceivers. We enter marriages willingly then do our best to cover up the fact that we are actually out for number one and will deceive the other into thinking they are living in a situation which does not, in fact, exist as we want them to perceive it to be -- this a one rude form of a control issue - selfishness and desire to keep that which we do not deserve and truth would risk our comfort.

      Being such, instead of telling the other that we are having a problem with fidelity and finding a solution - or being perfectly honest and telling the other that we can no longer remain physically faithful to them and risking having that person decide to leave us, we lie.

      That, in a nutshell, is why we "cheat". We are selfish and very willing to keep another person bound to us that would choose not to be if they knew truth about us.

      We can see this tendency running into other areas of our lives as well. Look at what we see in marketing each day. There are people all over the net who will lie and cheat because they want money.......and are willing to feed on their neighbors to get it. If they are caught, you will hear all that human intellect being used to rationalize their right to swindle others out of their money. But in truth, the action is nothing more than selfishness.

      As long as we live in a world that views selfishness as a negative characteristic, you will have "cheaters" in any area of life you would care to inspect.
      Brilliant Heysal!

      We are programmed from birth to behave in a certain way.
      "To thine ownself be true" is preached but not practiced.

      "Selfishness" in a negative context, is in direct contrast to any living creatures instincts.
      If a marriage takes work, then it should not be.

      "I want something else" or "I'm not happy where I am" to work at living up to a "vow"
      is lying to yourself and your spouse.
      If you truly love someone then you must be honest with them.

      I don't believe in cheating for the simple fact that if I want someone else then it's time for a divorce.
      Get out, and get in on the hunt.
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      • Profile picture of the author Radix
        I can't believe this thread is still alive.

        Damnit I just gave it a bump didn't I?
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  • Profile picture of the author Graham David
    hi asktiger woods o no his changed his name to cheeter
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    @Mr. Ambrosio. I agree, things are different, but as we were talking in generalities, I followed suit.

    For the record, I have been with my wife for almost 20 years - and have always been faithful.

    Also, I do all of my laundry, and sometimes do the laundry for the family. It's no big deal. I even did it when I worked for a boss.

    I changed my fair share of diapers, got up at all hours of the night to calm our child, and so on. Apart from breastfeeding, it was 50/50 all the way (with a slight edge going to me).

    I'm a big baby when I get sick and admit my wife takes better care of me when I'm sick. I do my best to comfort her when she's sick, and I have helped her through other MAJOR medical issues.

    The whole purpose of my post was to point out that everything is NOT slanted in favor of the female in a marriage.

    The examples I used were generalities.

    I am appaled at some of the attitudes expressed by someone in this thread. Well, not shocked that THEY have those attitudes, because it's par for their course, BUT I am appaled that ANYONE actually believes such things.

    ~Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Michael,

    I figured they were general in nature.

    Congrats on the 20 years. Like it or not, you're a dying breed. My wife and I celebrate our 8th this June (11 years together) and I know without a doubt that we will celebrate our 20th, 30th, etc.

    It has nothing to do with a contract. Had one of those once before - so that's not what it's about.

    I was listening to a radio program once that was dispensing relationship advice. And the "doc" was listening to a guy talk about his bad marriage. So he asked they guy why he got married.

    The guys response was: "I don't know - I figured I could live with her".

    The doc said: "Well there's your problem. You don't marry the person you think you can live with. You marry the person you know you can't live without".

    I heard that before I met my current wife, but after my divorce. Even though it is such a common sense thing, I never thought of it that way up until then.

    And that's how I knew I was going to marry and spend the rest of my life with my Mrs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Luckily, even though my ex refused to give me parental responsibility, I have just about managed to maintain a situation where I have access, although I had to fight to keep it at times (if I ever did anything wrong, she threatened to stop me seeing him) and I had to convince my son not to change his name when she got married, because she had convinced him it was the right thing to do - when he was eight years old. Of course I have always paid his maintenance and done everything else I'm supposed to.

      I've done ten years of this, and thankfully in a few years time he will be grown up, living his own life and I will be free of this nightmare where my desire to know my son can be used as a pawn against me at any given opportunity.
      Ex Rat, there's no other way to say it but that sucks. I think it's horrible when anyone uses their children against the other person. I had similar difficulties when my ex had my son living with him and his new girlfriend screwed with my life. I didn't even know where my son was for almost a year because they left state without telling me. Took me a long time to track them down.

      Tina
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I knew I found the right woman for me.

    How?

    She was/is the only one who seems to be able to put up with me.



    ~M~
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    What person in their right mind would take advice about marriage from someone who is so angry and bitter about it?
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    One thing that we have that animals don't, and that's the ability to know what someone else is thinking. How does this ability work? With words, and cognitive thinking. How do I know that my wife doesn't want me humping the neighbor? She tells me. How does a dog know that I don't want him humping the neighbor. He doesn't. He only knows that he doesn't like getting wacked w/ the newspaper when it happens.

    To me cheating is just selfish, and lazy, and shows a lack of any will-power. If you're in an abusive relationship, then it may not be that hard to relinquish that will-power. But like others have said, marriage takes a lot of work. And that sometimes means keeping your will-power when things aren't going so great.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Just wondering, how do you prove this either way? Hmm?

      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      One thing that we have that animals don't, and that's the ability to know what someone else is thinking.
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Just wondering, how do you prove this either way? Hmm?
        Have you ever tried to tell a cat to get off of the couch?


        I rest my case.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          That could be a language problem, don't you think? We humans don't speak cat. Do you expect cats to understand humans?? :-0

          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          Have you ever tried to tell a cat to get off of the couch?

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          • Profile picture of the author garyv
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            That could be a language problem, don't you think? We humans don't speak cat. Do you expect cats to understand humans?? Hmmmm...
            That could be true. Cat's must have the same language as teenagers. I can't get my son off of the couch either.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          Have you ever tried to tell a cat to get off of the couch?
          Cats are like Jeopardy! You have to frame your command in the form of a question.

          "What are you doing up there!?" is pretty effective at getting cats off the couch, furniture, window sills, chairs, the dining room table, etc.
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          • Profile picture of the author eshera
            Yup, right Dan

            "Why are you in that drawer?" "What are you so facinated with that" and "Why are you looking at me like that and what did I do?"

            You always think they will answer....right?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      One thing that we have that animals don't, and that's the ability to know what someone else is thinking. How does this ability work? With words, and cognitive thinking.

      Gee, even DOGS suspect, analyze, expect, assume, etc...

      So the garbage that you CLAIM people have, animals certainly have to the SAME degree!

      Of course, people DON'T really know what another is thinking. HECK, I LONG felt this one guy was just a greedy JERK! I thought that based on a few things I heard. It turns out he was FAR worse. What I thought he was guilty of was merely the first crowbar, but MAN what he pried off. OK, maybe you say I am jealous, and OTHERS knew better. Well, he didn't get one penny directly from me, but MANY people paid him their life savings! Companies paid him to advertise. Banks paid him HUNDREDS of millions!

      In case you haven't heard of him: Lou Pearlman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Of course, he is one of MILLIONS! Many wars are FOUGHT on misunderstandings, or failure to know what one is thinking.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    This is a very SORE subject. I have seen so many lives ruined by what is just plain being a SLUT - whether male or female. Usually innocent children that suffer the most in every case.

    It's not about anthropology, genetics or anything else. It is about you are only as good as your word. Don't make promises you can't keep. If you took a vow you need to honor that vow - if not get on down the road.

    Once that vow is broken as far as I am concerned it is all broken. Period.

    WHY is so irrelevant.

    There are predatory females and philandering males and vice versa.

    My hat (if I had one) goes off to those males (and females) that have kept their promises and who put their families and spouses above their lower animal instincts.

    I could say more, but as I said this is a SORE subject and somebody might get hurt.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebraceygroup
    WOW! I am new to this site, I can see I am gonna love it here, although being new to the marketing world I have been working 13 14 hr days on the computer, its good to see some real world topics, or should I say comics. I am 39 been married 3 times, to my 39 yr old Wife, who has also been married 3 times, so now I realized I will be with this women forever I am sure. I figured it out after failing so many times, just DON"T marry someone you love. ( and now thanks to that advise I am going on 10 years married to the same women.
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    TheBraceyGroup, better remember that name because I will make it BIG in this business! So you can tell your Grandkids you remember when that kid was just STARTING OUT!!
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by thebraceygroup View Post

      WOW! I am new to this site, I can see I am gonna love it here, although being new to the marketing world I have been working 13 14 hr days on the computer, its good to see some real world topics, or should I say comics. I am 39 been married 3 times, to my 39 yr old Wife, who has also been married 3 times, so now I realized I will be with this women forever I am sure. I figured it out after failing so many times, just DON"T marry someone you love. ( and now thanks to that advise I am going on 10 years married to the same women.
      Any woman that has been married 3 times definitely knows by now to snoop on her husband. So anyways, you had better prepare for number 4 after she finds this post.
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      • Profile picture of the author thebraceygroup
        :confused:shhhh just so it doesnt hit facebook I am O.K.
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        TheBraceyGroup, better remember that name because I will make it BIG in this business! So you can tell your Grandkids you remember when that kid was just STARTING OUT!!
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        • Profile picture of the author Radix
          Originally Posted by thebraceygroup View Post

          :confused:shhhh just so it doesnt hit facebook I am O.K.
          That's me you've been talking to on facebook.

          I was serious and you can see pictures of me, but you have to sign up for adult friend finder first.
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  • Profile picture of the author jedz
    Banned
    we just don't have satisfaction. sad but true.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    I think the real question that needs to be asked is in regards to men who cheat in monogamous relationships is: "Dont you get enough from the miss's at home?"

    I think the OP and several posters on this thread have forgotten that women, especially married, ROUTINELY deny their partner sex in a bid to manipulate them into doing things for them.

    And then wonder why their partners go out and cheat. good sex is vital to sustaining a long term happy relationship, proven again and again.

    To me, this kind of behavior is grounds for instant dumping or divorce if you are married. Unfortunately most men, particularly married, do not have any self respect and put up with this behavior, then after a while eventually snap and go have sex with the hooker down the road.

    Though to be fair, there are exceptions to every rule such as when the guy is just a plain scumbag in general.

    I have also noticed that women in general, as far as I can see, don't seem to screen their partner first for character traits, such as how well the guy got along with his mother, and guys fails to find out how their girlfriends got along with their father as that is a very good indicator of how well they will get along with you in the long run.

    personally I have a VERY high sex drive so the idea of being monogamous is completely alien unless said woman can match my drive. I would feel very suffocated in that kind of relationship, I suppose you could call me the male equivalent of a freak

    But then again I am not silly enough to put myself in a monogamous relationship in the first place.

    as for one of the mind reading posts above, I have observed women to be very very perceptive and have good instincts when first meeting a guy, I always get asked, am I a player?

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi thebraceygroup,
      I am going on 10 years married to the same women.
      And if she IS snooping, you better hope she sees that last word as a typo

      Hi skyfox7,

      I think the OP and several posters on this thread have forgotten that women, especially married, ROUTINELY deny their partner sex in a bid to manipulate them into doing things for them.

      And then wonder why their partners go out and cheat. good sex is vital to sustaining a long term happy relationship, proven again and again.
      I don't know if that is really gender specific, but I do think that it's a fine balance for a woman. I'm sure you'd agree that the opposite is also true - if a woman doesn't deny their partner ever, then the man will possibly assume that she has low self-worth and therefore he will not appreciate it. Personally, I need a woman to make me 'earn it' in order to nudge me to do the little, but important things that make the experience worthwhile for them.

      Without the nudging, I probably wouldn't bother, as I am a man. Why bother with a candlelit dinner when one isn't required?

      Hi Patrician,

      guys will say or appear to be anything the woman wants - just to get to the bedroom. Then all bets are off.
      Don't women sometimes do the same to get what they want, too?
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi skyfox7,

        I don't know if that is really gender specific, but I do think that it's a fine balance for a woman. I'm sure you'd agree that the opposite is also true - if a woman doesn't deny their partner ever, then the man will possibly assume that she has low self-worth and therefore he will not appreciate it. Personally, I need a woman to make me 'earn it' in order to nudge me to do the little, but important things that make the experience worthwhile for them.

        Without the nudging, I probably wouldn't bother, as I am a man. Why bother with a candlelit dinner when one isn't required?
        this isn't about being a challenge, the refusal of sex in order to manipulate you as I have pointed out above is an attempt to turn you into a little b*tch who does what she wants. I can promise you that if you play into this and accept it, you will never have sex with this women again, she most likely will have dumped you for that SELF RESPECTING MAN down the road.

        If this guy is a judgmental, insecure and henceforth not worth that woman's time then he may perceive her as having low self worth. Although I have never from memory heard of a guy say or assume that, I never have.

        I do enjoy a little challenge on occasion as it makes cave manning their sexy butts much more fun :p

        Incidentally women like to feel that they had to work to get attention and gifts and so on as well.

        Now when did I say "don't be a gentleman"? I like the romance, makes the lovemaking much more satisfying

        I have a ipod boom box thing and take my girls dancing under the stars on clear nights at the beach, very very romantic.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

          this isn't about being a challenge, the refusal of sex in order to manipulate you as I have pointed out above is an attempt to turn you into a little b*tch who does what she wants. I can promise you that if you play into this and accept it, you will never have sex with this women again, she most likely will have dumped you for that SELF RESPECTING MAN down the road.
          LOL - in a nutshell, this describes my first marriage.

          If you understand this next statement, you will understand probably 75% of the issues between a man and a woman:

          "Men get married hoping women never change. Women get married hoping men do."

          Of course, that is not true in every relationship, but how often have you heard a woman talk about a mans potential... and a man talking about that sex kitten they got?

          That's the other saying: "Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love"

          Again, look at most of the relationships you know and you'll see this more often than not. Men spend most of their waking hours thinking of ways to have sex - even if you don't think you do. We'll do or say most anything to get it. Women will use sex to "get what they want" - not always consciously, but more often than not, that's true too. This is even true for long-time partners.

          But the relationships that endure - even if what I wrote above applies - are those where mutual respect and communication are prevalent. You have those, you have most of the ingredients.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
            Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

            Men spend most of their waking hours thinking of ways to have sex - even if you don't think you do. We'll do or say most anything to get it.
            Almost like an instinct isnt it? Some would even say men weren't wired for marriage.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

              Almost like an instinct isnt it? Some would even say men weren't wired for marriage.
              If being married is what a man thinks will help him in his endeavor for sex, then he's wired to be married.
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
                Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                If being married is what a man thinks will help him in his endeavor for sex, then he's wired to be married.
                No he's wired to make everything THINK he's wired for marriage so he can get sex
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Patrician,

        Don't women sometimes do the same to get what they want, too?
        I know I don't and in fact one guy I dated briefly said I am 'blatantly honest' - from him I learned never show your hand. Never tell the truth that you are interested in a loving committed relationship and nothing else.

        I have never dated a woman so I wouldn't know what they do - but if you say so I believe it.

        You would pick the one point where I hadn't meticulously been sure to mention both male and female.

        Great to know you are back in the OT - haven't seen you here in ages and assumed we are being boycotted By U!
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Good honest post, Chris. I respect your honesty.

    That is one of the issues - misrepresentation - guys will say or appear to be anything the woman wants - just to get to the bedroom. Then all bets are off.

    Talk is cheap I have learned and even 'I love you' does not mean jack. Show me. FIRST. If not get lost prior to possibly exposing me to any diseases or a broken heart.

    You are honest and genuine that you are not looking for love, but what you want is a piece of meat. And that is fine because you are honest. This is why hookers always work.

    In that you are not concerned with whether the woman has feelings or may need a rest for one night, or doesn't want to feel like a sex machine ("sex object"), to me that means that you are not into feelings. Again, that's cool as long as you are up front about it.

    I do agree that if women refuse WITHIN REASON to take care of their man, that is a reason for the men to get sloppy.

    A loving relationship does require sacrifice on both parts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Good honest post, Chris. I respect your honesty.
      Honesty prevents the situation which is the subject of this thread.

      If people were true to their feelings instead of trying to deny them(Religion) or make apologies for being what they are and their desires(apologizing for the fact that they find women attractive) the world would be a much happier place.

      That is one of the issues - misrepresentation - guys will say or appear to be anything the woman wants - just to get to the bedroom. Then all bets are off.
      Most guys are desperate and come from a scarcity mentality so indeed they will try and lie to get a woman into bed. I have always been a natural with women and have never felt the need to lie, I am a very open person and besides, I will not waste my time on women who are afraid of their sexuality or who have low self esteem.

      Except for the last part about bets are all off, this is actually quite a accurate statement, indeed supplication is a very big turn off for both men and women and this is what will ultimately destroy a relationship and lead to cheating because the other partner loses respect for the one supplicating and refuses to have sex with them.

      I always get asked if I am a player because I do not supplicate to women as they naturally expect that because every other guy in the club tries to buy them a drink and bowl to their every whim that I am going to as well.

      Gold diggers do the same thing only they are doing it in the hopes of monetary return.


      Talk is cheap I have learned and even 'I love you' does not mean jack. Show me. FIRST. If not get lost prior to possibly exposing me to any diseases or a broken heart.
      I never say "I love you" because it is selfish, or at least not in that context, plus it sub-communicates that she has my testicles which will kill her attraction for me. Incidentally, when guys say this stuff, drama and testing and bullsh*t from the woman usually follow.

      Women also have a habit of saying 1 thing and then doing something completely different as well. Hence I do not treat what women say when they are in an emotional state with any seriousness as I know that 10 mins later she will be saying something else or happy again.


      You are honest and genuine that you are not looking for love, but what you want is a piece of meat. And that is fine because you are honest. This is why hookers always work.
      Again, your ignorance shows, you assume it is impossible to love more than 1 person. And your assertion that I see women meat is completely unfounded and wrong, again your ignorance talking.

      I encourage female sexuality, not oppress it which is typically what alot of desperate dateless guys do even other women such as yourself who assume that women who are involved in open relationships are sluts and hookers.

      I pity you

      If one of my girls finds a really nice guy who turns her crank and she wishes to become exclusive with him, I am happy for her, I'l even perform the wedding.

      I do not believe that you own another persons body which is one of the many reasons why I choose not to engage in monogamous relationships because that is what it implies and the selfish and often times unrealistic expectations it sets.

      In that you are not concerned with whether the woman has feelings or may need a rest for one night, or doesn't want to feel like a sex machine ("sex object"), to me that means that you are not into feelings. Again, that's cool as long as you are up front about it.
      I said there are always exceptions but in my experience and that of alot of other naturals I know, more often than not, the reason for not having sex is complete BS and a manipulation attempt.

      Hence if a guy has any self respect he will kick that woman to the curb and find another more worthy of his time if he perceives it as a manipulation attempt.

      I do not put up with BS from women and I live a much happier life because of it and so do the girls I see.

      The problem for most guys is, they don't know the difference.

      Despite my age, 21, I have been around the block a fair few times, played into the little mind games women play with men to turn them into pussy little b*tche's and I refuse to play ball.

      I do agree that if women refuse WITHIN REASON to take care of their man, that is a reason for the men to get sloppy.
      This was the point I was trying to make above, evidently I did not word it correctly.

      Though to make it clear, if you enter a monogamous relationship and you go behind a persons back and lie and deceive them about it then you deserve what happens to you. And as the male of the relationship, it is your responsibility to lead by example and end the relationship.

      Also, you would have to be the first woman I have ever heard that actually agreed that if a woman intentionally holds out that she wares part of the blame for the breaking down of the relationship.

      A loving relationship does require sacrifice on both parts
      Indeed, but that depends on what you are sacrificing, again self respect is not something I will give up no matter how pretty the woman may be or how much she believes she is gods gift to men.
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

        Honesty prevents the situation which is the subject of this thread.
        I did not mean to offend you and was just giving feedback on what I interpreted you as saying. I thought I gave you enough genuine affirmation to make up for my honest feelings as you had expressed yours.

        In that I have decades of experience that you have not had and been in both open and committed relationships, it would be interesting to find out how your perceptions may change when you grow up.

        I will say though that some of your statements show a lot of maturity for your young age.

        No I am not speaking from ignorance, I am speaking from experience - that you have not yet had.

        I did not say people in open relationships are sluts and hookers. I said that people who lie and cheat and put their base instincts above their vows and family's well-being are sluts -

        I said that if men are honest that they do not want any emotional entanglements but just want a piece of meat, that is why hookers always have work.

        Maybe they think they are too good to pay for it since they are 'naturals' as you put it - If it is a mutual arrangement to use each other than that is a fair exchange.

        What is not fair is if one person has been lead to believe things are different than they really are with their 'partner'. This is a betrayal of trust. I wouldn't do that even to a friend, let alone to someone I have said I love.

        To each his own.

        Wear a raincoat.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sancho Sanches
          Originally Posted by Patrician View Post


          I will say though that some of your statements show a lot of maturity for your young age.
          Don't give him so much credit.

          You can be 99% sure most of what he thinks he knows was learned from the pick up artist (PUA) world and evidence looked for in the world to support those theories, which validated it for him because it's what he wanted to believe.

          Some of what is taught in the PUA scene has validity.

          Most of it is opinion and a spin on the world to fit what a particular individual wants to see it as.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      A loving relationship does require sacrifice on both parts.
      Isn't that the truth. And it takes mature people to have such a relationship.

      I've seen the following quote used to define maturity & self discipline...

      "Doing what you're supposed to do, when you're supposed to do it, regardless of how you feel"

      I don't know who said it originally, but it sure makes sense.
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      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
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      • Profile picture of the author Dana Forsythe
        [QUOTE="Doing what you're supposed to do, when you're supposed to do it, regardless of how you feel"

        I don't know who said it originally, but it sure makes sense. [/QUOTE]


        Amen.. I have a lot of young friends that got married without understanding the meaning of that. Half of them are already separated
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  • Profile picture of the author SherryLee
    I think that a loving relationship is based in lots of talking. Talking out everything and knowing what's on your partner's mind. If you don't have great communication, your relationship is on an unstable foundation. A lack of communication is one reason why a relationship can devolve into cheating.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Interesting thing about marriage whenever I have talked about it with female friends and like, they always talk about the ceremony itself and I never here them talk about how they actually plan on maintaining the relationship for such an extended period of time, IF they even plan on it lasting that long at all.

    if being married is what a man thinks will help him in his endeavor for sex, then he's wired to be married.
    And for a very expensive divorce.

    This is a very dangerous assumption many men make, they think if they marry the woman that all the BS will stop and life will be tranquil and carefree. Women believe this to,

    I call this the disney delusion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by skyfox7 View Post

      Interesting thing about marriage whenever I have talked about it with female friends and like, they always talk about the ceremony itself and I never here them talk about how they actually plan on maintaining the relationship for such an extended period of time, IF they even plan on it lasting that long at all.
      Because when it comes to relationships, women live in a fantasy world.

      A world where:
      Marriages just work themselves out
      Wife beaters really do change
      Druggies/alkies clean up for love/marriage
      Cheaters are always 'the other guy'
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        Because when it comes to relationships, women live in a fantasy world.

        A world where:
        Marriages just work themselves out
        Wife beaters really do change
        Druggies/alkies clean up for love/marriage
        Cheaters are always 'the other guy'
        Speaking of cheaters, I noticed that women will put up with cheating husbands yet when you try to get them into an open relationship they look at you as if you are insane and they freak out.

        Its kind of funny in a way, look at Hillary Clinton.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

        Because when it comes to relationships, women live in a fantasy world.

        A world where:
        Marriages just work themselves out
        Wife beaters really do change
        Druggies/alkies clean up for love/marriage
        Cheaters are always 'the other guy'
        Which kind of proves my earlier comment:

        "Men get married hoping women never change. Women get married hoping men do."

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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    True. Women will also put up with a man that beats them regularly, even to the point of never pressing charges and making up excuses for why he beat her...but to them its the idea of an open relationship that means they aren't loved/respected/cared for, not the stitches or the black eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author tjmiller
    You know, Michael, reading your posts throughout this whole thread makes me sad for you. You are so bitter and closed-minded about relationships that you will be really sealing yourself off from any possibility of ever having the benefits that a great one can bring you.

    My example about my mother was not to say that men don't get screwed in divorces, but to say that you cannot generalize about any group of people because there is always the other side.

    I have seen women working in the same company as a man, in the same job as a man, with more education and/or experience than a man, make much less money than that man. Does this mean that all men make more money than all women? Of course not.

    What it means is that there are going to be inequities in life. Sometimes they are going to be in your favor, sometimes not. Does that mean you don't want life any more? I certainly hope not.

    Sometimes things in life suck, but I love life.

    Sometimes things in marriages suck, but I love my marriage.

    If people never did anything for fear of the consequences if they failed, there would be no warrior forum would there? There would be no need because we would all just know that attempting to create a business on the internet would just lead to failure, bankruptcy, and disaster.

    I hope, for your sake, you can learn to stop hating women someday. We really aren't that bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author bozz723
    Number one, people can love another person and still cheat on them. Their sexual desire for themh as just burnt out. People cheat because they crave something more deep inside of them, etc.


    Some people cheat because they could care less about their partner. Some people cheat because they do not look at it as anything serious, for example I bet this is how Tiger looked at it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Radix
      Originally Posted by bozz723 View Post

      Number one, people can love another person and still cheat on them. Their sexual desire for themh as just burnt out. People cheat because they crave something more deep inside of them, etc.


      Some people cheat because they could care less about their partner. Some people cheat because they do not look at it as anything serious, for example I bet this is how Tiger looked at it.

      I disagree with cheating on someone you love. I have a '68 Ferrari that was my brother's. I take great care of it and drive it with extreme care. As sick as it sounds, I love my dead brother's car.

      There is nothing on Earth that would make me drive it into a brick wall at 120 mph and it's just a car. If necessary, I could probably replace it.

      I could never replace my family and that's pretty much what you're driving into a wall at 120mph when you cheat on your spouse.

      Not to be too graphic, but I've had some pretty good nookie in my day and even a few since. Know what I have to show for it?

      nothing

      "Sex" between two humans is no more significant than sex between two whales, two donkeys or two mice.

      It has no worth
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      • Profile picture of the author bozz723
        Originally Posted by Radix View Post

        I disagree with cheating on someone you love. I have a '68 Ferrari that was my brother's. I take great care of it and drive it with extreme care. As sick as it sounds, I love my dead brother's car.

        There is nothing on Earth that would make me drive it into a brick wall at 120 mph and it's just a car. If necessary, I could probably replace it.

        I could never replace my family and that's pretty much what you're driving into a wall at 120mph when you cheat on your spouse.

        Not to be too graphic, but I've had some pretty good nookie in my day and even a few since. Know what I have to show for it?

        nothing

        "Sex" between two humans is no more significant than sex between two whales, two donkeys or two mice.

        It has no worth

        I understand. However what I was pointing out is that a lot of people who cheat love their partner, but are not "in love" anymore, you heard the cliche many times on TV and what not.

        This is a real phenomena and I have seen it happen numerous times. You start to look at your partner almost like a blood relative not as a sexual partner.


        However that is just one reason. Not everything is black and white, there are many variables as to why people cheat. It is a combination of things.
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        • Profile picture of the author Radix
          Originally Posted by bozz723 View Post

          I understand. However what I was pointing out is that a lot of people who cheat love their partner, but are not "in love" anymore, you heard the cliche many times on TV and what not.

          This is a real phenomena and I have seen it happen numerous times. You start to look at your partner almost like a blood relative not as a sexual partner.


          However that is just one reason. Not everything is black and white, there are many variables as to why people cheat. It is a combination of things.
          Absolutely, but get a divorce first.

          Then people can screw anything they want without being a lying sneak about it.

          If a divorce is too painful, tough nugs.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I think the real question that needs to be asked is in regards to men who cheat in monogamous relationships is: "Dont you get enough from the miss's at home?"

    I think the OP and several posters on this thread have forgotten that women, especially married, ROUTINELY deny their partner sex in a bid to manipulate them into doing things for them.
    What the hell kind of BS is this? You honestly believe that is normal behavior?

    I got news for you guy - once you start in making sex a woman's Job - you have shown that you think of her as nothing more that a household utility and convenience. There is nothing romantic or loving - or even respectful about thinking it is a woman's job to spread her legs when you snap your fingers. If that is what you want, instead of getting married, take a c note out of your wallet and buy a hooker.

    Once you take the magic out of making love, you can forget a woman ever caring if you touch her or not. It's the type of men who insist on sex being a "duty" that make divorce such a wonderful benefit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      What the hell kind of BS is this? You honestly believe that is normal behavior?

      I got news for you guy - once you start in making sex a woman's Job - you have shown that you think of her as nothing more that a household utility and convenience. There is nothing romantic or loving - or even respectful about thinking it is a woman's job to spread her legs when you snap your fingers. If that is what you want, instead of getting married, take a c note out of your wallet and buy a hooker.

      Once you take the magic out of making love, you can forget a woman ever caring if you touch her or not. It's the type of men who insist on sex being a "duty" that make divorce such a wonderful benefit.
      This is my last post on this thread.

      I never said it was the woman's job, again poor wording by me if that is your interpretation, obviously if you are completely disgusting, unclean, ungratefull etc, as iv pointed out earlier, you cave in to the usual relationship BS from women and show a complete lack of self respect and you don't make any effort to keep her attracted, then good luck having intimate relationship with any woman.

      also, if you don't take some time to invest money into yourself to learn to be a good lover in the first place, most guys don't, then that will kill your partners will to have intimate relations with you as well. But that is nor representative of the majority.

      In response to your question about this manipulative behavior being common, yeah, in fact its quite rampant even outside of marriage. I'm not going to go into a psychoanalysis of positive and negative re-enforcement which is what this behavior is.

      sex is usually the first thing to go in marriage, its been well reported and documented, I only have to look at some of my older friends marriages, even my parents to see it happening, its really quite sad.

      But hey, if you are a male with a low sexual drive, then obviously this behavior wont bother you. Just remember she will get Bord of you sexually very quickly and eventually and start getting some on the side, assuming she doesn't divorce you beforehand.

      Theres an old saying we have in the poker world: Its cheaper to learn from other peoples mistakes.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi,

      The same point I commented on and disagreed with previously from post# 35 -

      Men only get hosed in a divorce if they screwed up
      From today's news

      Summary -

      Richard Grey, 36, was ordered to give his ex-wife Lara a £615,000 house and a lump sum of £454,158 as part of their settlement.[snip]

      He was also instructed to keep up the £125,000 annual payments until she remarried - even though Mrs Grey admitted she was pregnant with her lover's child at a previous hearing.[snip]

      She has since given birth to the baby. Mr Grey, who is worth more than £4million, has gone to the Court of Appeal in London claiming that his new evidence proves that his former wife is actually cohabiting with Liam Thompson.[snip]

      Where is the justice in the husband now paying 137,500 euros to a household which includes not only Liam Thompson but also Liam Thompson's child by the wife?'[snip]

      Under British law maintenance is usually paid until the party who is receiving the payments remarries. However, this can be stopped or dramatically reduced if they are taken to court by their former partner in the event they set up home with a new lover[snip]

      In a previous hearing at the High Court, Mr Justice Singer refused to cut Mr Grey's maintenance bill, although the judge accepted that his ex-wife had been 'in a relationship' with another man since at least late 2006 and was 17 weeks pregnant with his child.

      But he said there was 'no cut-and-dried test' for cohabiting and said Mrs Grey was entitled to her maintenance in full until she remarried.

      While claiming a share of the assets of the marriage, Mrs Grey had written to her husband's solicitors denying she was cohabiting with Mr Thompson, saying he was 'not even a boyfriend'

      But at a hearing in the High Court, she admitted to Mr Justice Singer that Mr Thompson, a programme director for several Irish radio stations, had stayed at her home a few nights a week.
      Admittedly, the original husband was wealthy. But still, his ex-wife lies about her co-habiting and he gets taxed for life by them as long as she refuses to marry her new partner.

      From page 1 of this thread -

      what person in their right mind would enter into such a one-sided contract?
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      • Profile picture of the author Radix
        That is an extraordinary example, yet it doesn't tell us anything about their marriage other than she is a bit of a tart and the court thinks even less of Grey.

        It tells us nothing about Grey himself.

        I agree it's ridiculous for him to have to bankroll her, but this an extraordinary example. They may also have had a prenup to those terms.
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Radix,

          It has nothing to do with pre-nups, it's the law.

          Why is it extraordinary? Because he was wealthy? So apply it to the 1000s of cases where they are not. That just makes it worse, because instead, a poor bloke has to continue to maintain his ex wife while she starts a new family but deliberately avoids marriage in order to 'punish' him.
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          • Profile picture of the author Radix
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Radix,

            It has nothing to do with pre-nups, it's the law.

            Why is it extraordinary? Because he was wealthy? So apply it to the 1000s of cases where they are not. That just makes it worse, because instead, a poor bloke has to continue to maintain his ex wife while she starts a new family but deliberately avoids marriage in order to 'punish' him.

            Your example is extreme on every level. If that happened here, she likely wouldn't get any assets from him. In fact he could sue her in civil court for any expenses connected to her affair to include any medical insurance premiums if she used coverage he provided to cover the birth costs. Adultery is frowned upon and civil courts here will punish adulterers if you choose the right avenue.

            Men roll over in divorces. I think most of it is pity or they believe the process will be expedited if they just succumb. I have a good friend who has been doing the dance for nearly a year now. Both of their attorney fees are astronomical, but he isn't paying the crazy wench a dime. She got the home she can't pay for and a car she can't afford either. He's paying a one-time lump settlement that covers his half of the house mortgage. He's paying it directly to the bank so she'll have to sell the home to get any of it.

            I think things work very differently over there. Keeping your nose clean here pays off.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    @tjmiller - Don't worry, it's not just women.
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    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author LondonPaladin
    People cheat because monogamy is biologically unnatural. For both men and women. Men fall asleep right after sex because of a chemical release in the brain. This is to allow the woman to escape. And seek out another lover. Especially when she is ovulating.

    There are tons of books on the subjects. Most people get married because they think they are supposed to.

    Also nearly as many women as men cheat these days. I'm always surprised, but it's true.
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    • Profile picture of the author Radix
      Originally Posted by LondonPaladin View Post

      People cheat because monogamy is biologically unnatural. For both men and women. Men fall asleep right after sex because of a chemical release in the brain. This is to allow the woman to escape. And seek out another lover. Especially when she is ovulating.

      There are tons of books on the subjects. Most people get married because they think they are supposed to.

      Also nearly as many women as men cheat these days. I'm always surprised, but it's true.
      Getting on an airplane flown by people we've never met kind of flies in the face of every human instinct yet we do it every day. From a biological perspective, it makes no sense at all. "Here is my life bad hair guy in a bus driver uniform. I trust you fully since I've never met you and it's possible you have narcolepsy and drank a fifth of something for breakfast."

      Do you chase your dinner? Do you kill your male offspring? Where's your biology?

      I don't know why everyone gets married, but I doubt it's a single collective reason and hence your argument is 100% dookie.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sancho Sanches
      Originally Posted by LondonPaladin View Post

      People cheat because monogamy is biologically unnatural. For both men and women. Men fall asleep right after sex because of a chemical release in the brain. This is to allow the woman to escape. And seek out another lover. Especially when she is ovulating.

      There are tons of books on the subjects. Most people get married because they think they are supposed to.

      Also nearly as many women as men cheat these days. I'm always surprised, but it's true.
      Bull****. That's just one of several pseudo-intellectual evolutionary garbage born out of opinionated framework that fits within an ideological paradigm.

      Do men get tired out of ejaculation? Sometimes.

      Is that so the woman can escape and get another partner?

      Not unless you like making up bull****.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by LondonPaladin View Post

      People cheat because monogamy is biologically unnatural. For both men and women. Men fall asleep right after sex because of a chemical release in the brain. This is to allow the woman to escape. And seek out another lover. Especially when she is ovulating.

      There are tons of books on the subjects. Most people get married because they think they are supposed to.

      Also nearly as many women as men cheat these days. I'm always surprised, but it's true.
      In most cases, the FEMALE puts the responsibility on the male, or the MALE leaves. In SOME cases, the female even KILLS the male. If the females needed a device to leave the male, I think it would be a FIRST. And WHY would men evolve such a thing? Wouldn't darwin argue that such people would not be appreciated(WOMEN today ARGUE ABOUT IT!) and thus women would search out others and THEY, maintaining such a hold, would continue to have kids? Human cultures, they have had almost every variant. All the way from people that bought or stole women and basically raped them, to the amazons that supposedly killed men.

      BTW, it isn't like men are going to force a woman to have sex with them and then just SLEEP, EVEN if they wanted to hold the woman against her will.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Just because you have an urge to do something - doesn't make it biologically unnatural to not do it. There are a ton (pardon the pun) of fat people here in the U.S. that have urges all of the time for fattening food. Would you say that it's biologically unnatural for them to control their eating? No! It just takes discipline and a little self control.

    You don't cheat because "it's biologically unnatural" not to. You cheat because you have no discipline or self-control.

    "Yes I ate the Triple Quarter Pounder w/ Cheese Super sized with fries. I was hungry, and hunger is biologically natural."

    Most people like to live out their life w/ at least one person they can trust and share life with. A lot of people lose out on that by sleeping around. I guess it all comes down to what you value more. And a few of you in here won't even know what that is until it's too late for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Radix
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Just because you have an urge to do something - doesn't make it biologically unnatural to not do it. There are a ton (pardon the pun) of fat people here in the U.S. that have urges all of the time for fattening food. Would you say that it's biologically unnatural for them to control their eating? No! It just takes discipline and a little self control.

      You don't cheat because "it's biologically unnatural" not to. You cheat because you have no discipline or self-control.

      "Yes I ate the Triple Quarter Pounder w/ Cheese Super sized with fries. I was hungry, and hunger is biologically natural."

      Most people like to live out their life w/ at least one person they can trust and share life with. A lot of people lose out on that by sleeping around. I guess it all comes down to what you value more. And a few of you in here won't even know what that is until it's too late for you.
      ^^^what he said^^^

      "Your feet are going to be on the ground
      Your head is there to move you around"


      Don't ever forget your head
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Why do women cheat? I hate that we always talk about only men cheating, as if women don't. When you look at studies, usually men will be the ones who cheat more, yes, but women are not that far behind percentage-wise. It takes two to tango.

    So, it should be, why do PEOPLE cheat?
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      Why do women cheat? I hate that we always talk about only men cheating, as if women don't. When you look at studies, usually men will be the ones who cheat more, yes, but women are not that far behind percentage-wise. It takes two to tango.

      So, it should be, why do PEOPLE cheat?

      I know that now.


      TL
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  • Profile picture of the author shermanf
    This thing is soooo sad....I got cheated on and screwed badly, if the truths were all laid out on the table you people would probably not believe it.....my point is count your blessings if this does not describe you because I really dont think I would wish this "time of my life" on anyone, ever......

    Take care and have a great day!!
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  • Profile picture of the author JoshH
    I'd say women cheat just as much as men overall. I'd say some people it is their nature to cheat. A breakdown in communication is probably another cause. One person feels neglected, isn't smart enough to say something, and bam they cheat. Some people cannot resist temptation either.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    They should make it so multiple wives aren't against the law. Then everything would be ok.

    One for the dishes, one for the cleaning, one for the laundry, a handful for sexual variation. Life would be good.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      They should make it so multiple wives aren't against the law. Then everything would be ok.

      One for the dishes, one for the cleaning, one for the laundry, a handful for sexual variation. Life would be good.
      Unless you're the one stuck w/ the laundry
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      They should make it so multiple wives aren't against the law. Then everything would be ok.

      One for the dishes, one for the cleaning, one for the laundry, a handful for sexual variation. Life would be good.

      You can always move to Utah join the group, and if you can take care of all of them you can have you dream life..


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author Radix
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        You can always move to Utah join the group, and if you can take care of all of them you can have you dream life..


        TL
        I have seen these women


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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by Michael Motley View Post

      They should make it so multiple wives aren't against the law. Then everything would be ok.

      One for the dishes, one for the cleaning, one for the laundry, a handful for sexual variation. Life would be good.
      I suggested this to my wife once... didn't go over to well


      LOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    Men cheat in their marriage for the same reason women do pretty much.

    They believe the grass is greener on the other side of the hill and yet when it does not work out the way they planned and they are up to the neck in the proverbial they start crying about it.

    Men cheat for variety and women cheat for interest for the most part as I can see.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jim786
    Simple as they get sick and tired of their wives. They dont know how good they have it and dont realize it until theyve already comitted their crime.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    People cheat because the rules are flawed. Here's the rule.

    "Find the one person you can stay with for the rest of your life."

    Okay, now let me ask everybody one basic thing.

    Can you even find the one FOOD you could stay with for the rest of your life?

    How about one pair of pants? Not the same pair - just a style.

    Speaking of style, one hairdo. Can you pick the one hairdo you will have for the rest of your life?

    Do you have a chance in hell of making a reasonable choice on ANY of those questions?

    People cheat because they screwed up.

    Now, some people don't screw up. Good for them. And other people stonewall about it, pretending they didn't screw up, because of some belief or other. Uh, good for them too, I suppose.

    But the people cheating have, in general, screwed up. And they know they've screwed up, and they have some ridiculous notion that they don't deserve to spend the rest of their lives paying for screwing up, because it's something the overwhelming majority of people screw up.

    Gender has nothing to do with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author SherryLee
    CDarklock, I agree that staying faithful poses a challenge for most people. I really feel it traces back to self-esteem. I also think that you should take the time to get to know all the people you want and at a certain point as you get older you feel a bit lonelier, like you'd like to have a partner. That is when you're ready. Of course I know I oversimplify.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sancho Sanches
    I think most people don't realize that although human beings are all basically the same animal they are also individual and different animals at the same time.

    You have a genetic predisposition and you have life experience to encourage or exacerbate your tendency.

    I've never been with anyone or even kissed because I want something very specific and know for myself that settling just to be with someone in order to not be alone will have me more miserable than if I stay alone.

    What I want is not something I can do a second time.

    I have reached a degree of repulsion with the sexual state of the world and accept lying in the bed I've made, so to speak, because for my predisposition the alternative is worse.

    For others what repulses me is as normal as breathing or drinking water.

    I accept that and don't care as long as it isn't pushed in my face.

    I wasn't raised in an environment that molded me this way.

    In fact had I followed by example I'd probably be one of the biggest womanizers the world had ever known.

    I get sad sometimes because I often attract very attractive girls even with just a look and they pursue me but I just have to say no.

    I also didn't live in a household of "Thou shalt not" either.

    I was even encouraged to look at Playboys.

    Also, as far as I have been able to tell I have not met anyone with a greater libido than me.

    And yet I still am what I am.

    When it comes down to it people do what they want to do.

    No excuses and it's that simple.

    Goodbye.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Cheating is more of a character issue than a biological one.

      The thing about using "hard wiring" as a sole way of explaining specific behaviors (as opposed to just observing it as a set of tendencies) is that unlike other animals, we have the ability to do things that go against our hard wiring. We have the ability to proactively choose our course of action rather than just respond to stuff in the environment.

      In the same way that we can be internally motivated to delay the instant gratification of watching TV or youtube videos and choose to work on our business instead, we can be internally motivated to turn down sex with someone. That decision may not benefit us biologically, but it can benefit us on a personal level.

      This is where things like your integrity and goals and personal standards for yourself come into play.

      Yes, we have certain animalistic drives that motivate us, but we have the power to choose. Biology need not be destiny.

      People cheat either because they don't have a clear system of values, or because they have a values system where they don't see cheating as a bad thing, or because they've rationalized to themselves that it's okay to cheat, even though it goes against their system of values. Or they cheat because they're unhappy with their marriage or they don't find their partner attractive anymore, yet they don't want to end the relationship.

      Other people just have poor impulse control in general, and cheating is just another manifestation of that. Some cheat because they're narccicists with a bloated sense of entitlement that doesn't take the feelings of others into consideration.

      Simply put, there's a lot of reasons that people cheat, and they vary from individual to individual and situation to situation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Kerr
    Because they can.
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  • Profile picture of the author Arinal
    This is a pretty complex subject. I usually try to read marriage tips once in a while, which help stay focused:
    1. Show empathy and support
    2. Have a plan
    3. Expect to disagree
    .... etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author AdamSlade88
    Men are physical beings and are attracted to women based on physique. Its just hard-wired into our brains. Married or not, men will always be attracted to women based on appearance. Now its up to men whether they cheat on their wives or not. Some married men are more centered and able to control their urges, as for others...not so much. On the other hand, women are more of emotional beings and are attracted to men who are able to connect to them more on a emotional level. Women who cheat ONLY cheat because their husbands aren't satisfying them emotionally. Make sense?
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  • Profile picture of the author sandra.IMqueen
    The reasons why men cheat are endless. But the bottom line is this. It's a choice they make. T

    Men with high self esteem, good emotional intelligence and strong values will deal with the issues that are affecting them/their relationship. They would talk to their partner and explain what they are feeling and seek a solution within their relationship.

    Easier said then done for many.
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    • Profile picture of the author 900sal
      Originally Posted by sandra.IMqueen View Post

      The reasons why men cheat are endless. But the bottom line is this. It's a choice they make. T

      Men with high self esteem, good emotional intelligence and strong values will deal with the issues that are affecting them/their relationship. They would talk to their partner and explain what they are feeling and seek a solution within their relationship.

      Easier said then done for many.
      Totally agree with this. It's always a choice between giving in to temptation and not.
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  • Profile picture of the author PhickWarrior
    This concept can apply to both men in marriages and relationships...but the bottom line is, they cheat because they're insecure with themselves in some form or fashion. That's what it all goes back to. It has absolutely nothing to do with the woman they're married/involved with, but everything to do with them. It's sad. As women, we're insecure by nature, but you don't see us going and doing the same thing that men do. It's ridiculous.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by PhickWarrior View Post

      This concept can apply to both men in marriages and relationships...but the bottom line is, they cheat because they're insecure with themselves in some form or fashion. That's what it all goes back to. It has absolutely nothing to do with the woman they're married/involved with, but everything to do with them. It's sad. As women, we're insecure by nature, but you don't see us going and doing the same thing that men do. It's ridiculous.
      Wrong - most of the recent studies show that women now cheat even more than men do. I don't know if it's because of the internet, or because there are more women now in the workplace or what.

      I think that most people cheat, because they feel that the pleasure at the time out-weighs any guilt they are feeling at the time. So a man (or woman) that has a great relationship and loves their partner will feel extreme guilt. Enough so that it will outweigh any pleasure that they can foresee happening.

      So if you can cheat, then there are some definite problems in your relationship to begin with. Or you just haven't built up a great enough love for your partner. And by the way, true love is not something that you just fall into. True Love is something that must be constantly maintained and worked on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    Men cheat because they just aren't getting anything out of their marriage any more. I'd have to argue that 90 percent of cheating could be prevented by women helping men explore their fantasies rather than keeping them pent up and locked away. That repression will add up.
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    • Profile picture of the author PhickWarrior
      Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

      Men cheat because they just aren't getting anything out of their marriage any more. I'd have to argue that 90 percent of cheating could be prevented by women helping men explore their fantasies rather than keeping them pent up and locked away. That repression will add up.
      I'm sorry, I have to disagree with that. I'm a very sexual person. Not to the point where I sleep around or whatever, but I mean when it comes to the person I'm in a relationship with. I LOVE experimenting and trying new things in the bedroom, and I have still been cheated on in the past. So you can't necessarily say that repressed sexual attitudes are always to blame for cheating, because as you can see, there are people like me who are FAR from repressed and STILL get screwed over.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        whether it's a man or woman cheating...it's all the same, it's dishonest.

        Because I've been cheated on before, whenever I enter into a relationship now, I am upfront with a single request: "If you ever plan on cheating on me while we have this partnership, please do me the courtesy of breaking off with me first. I promise you the same courtesy, just out of genuine RESPECT. That way we can go our separate ways and maybe still salvage our friendship."

        Men and women cheat for many different reasons, none of which are acceptable, in my humble opinion. If you can't respect someone enough to break off with them if you plan on cheating, then you are a scumbag, full stop, whether you are a male or female cheater.
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  • Profile picture of the author mwashington
    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

    Chris Rock said that a man is only as loyal as his options.

    What do you think??


    TL


    Ps. I think that we can agree that men cheat more than women, so let's talk only about why dudes do it in this thread and we can open up another thread about the gals.
    i think GaryV has it right. The new sources show women are cheating more than men now. We might have to establish what sources we get that from. After all what one survey says another says the opposite. But I think your question " Why Do Men Cheat In Their Marriages?" is a good question. I would say that sometimes couples forget about each other and focus so much on their kids that in later years they get more distant and look for other places to fulfill those needs. That certainly is not the only reason but just one. I would enjoy hearing the rest myself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Men AND women cheat due to a lack of integrity. We can talk about biology and evolution and differences between the sexes forever, but at the end of the day, a person who truly has integrity will not cheat. Period. They either won't get into a relationship if they're not ready to commit to one person, or they'll end the relationship if it's not working for them.

      Feeling attracted to someone may stem from biology, but choosing whether or not to ACT on that attraction comes down to your personal integrity.

      If you want to know why people cheat, start by asking yourself this:

      "Why do so many people lack integrity?"

      Just as a person who has integrity in business won't screw over their business partners, a man or woman who truly has integrity in their relationships won't cheat on their partner.
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  • Profile picture of the author trevor75
    Only loyal as his options? What the heck does that mean? I think most men cheat because its in our genetic make-up to mate with as many different women as possible. Its what nature intended. If it's right or wrong thats for your heart, conscious, religion, or mind to decide. We think just because were smarter then every other animal on this planet that were aren't animals ourselves, so we should just push away those impulses. However, it is very difficult for most men. Genetics and nature are almost impossible to fight.
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  • Profile picture of the author sihanum
    I think the one who cheating in their marriages is already boring with theirs partners or somebody outside is better. Just my 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
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    • Profile picture of the author Radix
      Not sure why I'm posting on this again...

      People who cheat in relationships are cheaters in general. Sure it only takes one slip, but that just means they're also indecisive. I can smell a cheater from 100 yards in a high wind.

      I think we all can, but some folks lie to themselves or think they can change someone.
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  • Profile picture of the author kwality
    peer pressure. seriously !!!
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    John Terry! LOL

    yeah I agree. It's nothing to be proud of. People who even boast about it....I wouldn't trust them one inch.

    It takes two to tango but if it's that bad end it and start again.
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  • Profile picture of the author zack_ferdinand
    you know what i believe in? I believe that men are just natural players. polygamous is the word i suppose
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  • Profile picture of the author BricknMortar
    Let's keep it simple - - - Right or WRONG

    -
    Because they can..
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  • Profile picture of the author nanox
    I think Men do cheat sometimes because they miss the initial excitement.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    Because all they think about is sex so if its available to them they'll take it. No offense to any men here, but do you know when it came out about Tiger Woods affairs, my husband basically said 'it's his wife's fault because she probably didn't put out enough'!

    Men are weak when it comes to saying no to sex!
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  • Profile picture of the author fallencrest
    We guys cheat because we're polygamous by nature. Anyways, women are certified cheaters too. That would make us even.
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  • Profile picture of the author craigcdz
    Well its not always the men who cheat... I have seen so many ladies who were not sincere with their hubbies so its a mutual disaster.. "The Marriage"
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