Upgrading PC - Install RAM myself? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

15 years ago

Hi,
installing ram is no big deal just ensure your running the correct bus speed i.e ddr2

you can use an anti static glove but really all you need to do is touch the metal casing which will ground you hold the ram on the sides and snap it into place.
this will definitely speed the processing power thereby speeding up the system
HTH
-WD

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seasoned

15 years ago

I don't think there is such a thing as an "anti static glove". That sounds like a stupid thing because it would have to be conductive and connected on both sides, etc.... It is generally an anti static STRAP that hooks to your wrist. It basically FORCES you to "touch the metal casing", as W.D. Mino says. And you should make sure that the case or strap, is GROUNDED.

1. MAINTAIN A GROUND! Whether by touching metal, or using a strap.
2. DON'T touch any metal part of the Memory module, OR the computer's boards. This is for safety AND, in some cases, to prevent corrosion.
3. Make sure the computer is OFF AND, if it has a main battery, remove it.
4. Use the proper memory.
5. NEVER lay the memory down unless it is on an ANTISTATIC surface! If in doubt, use metal foil.
6. Try not to move on a carpet much while installing or touching any component.
7. Make sure it CLICKS into place, and is locked into place(if appropriate), and most of the contacts SHOULD be in the socket.

It isn't difficult, but breaking ONE step could hurt the memory, your computer, or both.

Steve

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zincOnline

15 years ago

I built a whole pc with nothing in the way of anti static or grounding and I was fine. Just handle the components with care by the edges

obviosuly make sure its unplugged first

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by zincOnline

I built a whole pc with nothing in the way of anti static or grounding and I was fine. Just handle the components with care by the edges

obviosuly make sure its unplugged first

I did say COULD! Although grounding may not APPEAR to make a difference, and might not even make a difference, it is a PROVEN FACT that it can be the difference between a DISASTER(That could cost thousands of dollars) and success. Frankly, it isn't worth it to ignore it.

Ever see a spark from your fingers, or feel a shock? That, to an IC(Like computer memory), is SO much that it might as well be enough to kill everyone in an entire city. The amount required to hurt an IC is so small you couldn't feel it.

Steve

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WD Mino

15 years ago

Originally Posted by zincOnline

I built a whole pc with nothing in the way of anti static or grounding and I was fine. Just handle the components with care by the edges

obviosuly make sure its unplugged first

I am a computer technician for over 5 yrs. what you are suggesting may work and it may not. touching any part of the ram while still ungrounded will possibly wipe the ram completely clean in other words it will not function as it has no "memory"

Turning off the power and unplugging the computer only cuts the main power going to the power supply the power supply itself maintains an electrical output within. so technically unless you detach the main p4 supply from the board which is just a big "plug" and little "plug" there is power going into the mother board. static electricity is what causes problems and that is very powerful when considering the high sensitivity of computer components such a random access memory. always always always should you be grounded.

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DanPE

15 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Mino

I am a computer technician for over 5 yrs. what you are suggesting may work and it may not. touching any part of the ram while still ungrounded will possibly wipe the ram completely clean in other words it will not function as it has no "memory"

Turning off the power and unplugging the computer only cuts the main power going to the power supply the power supply itself maintains an electrical output within. so technically unless you detach the main p4 supply from the board which is just a big "plug" and little "plug" there is power going into the mother board. static electricity is what causes problems and that is very powerful when conisdering the high sensitivity of computer compnents such a random access memory. always always always should you be grounded.

The interesting thing about this is that you're already grounded, unless your feet don't touch the ground lol

the problem with static electricity is that you never know. If you live in a cold, dry climate (or have air-conditioning and a carpet) you might unknowingly charge yourself while walking across it. Or your hair might fall across your face, and then you brush it away. If you don't accidentally charge yourself in some way, or if you live in a humid, tropical climate, you don't really need to worry about static electricity.

So basically, you only need a grounding strap you work in a cold, dry climate and/or you have carpeting. If you work in a humid, tropical climate, you don't have to worry much about it.

You can't actually damage RAM with static electricity (unless you're some sort of walking van de graaf generator

) What you can do, however, is wipe the chip identification info. If you look at most DRAM "sticks" you will see a very small chip on it. That chip holds information about the RAM (such as what speed it is, etc.) If that info gets wiped, your PC doesn't boot 'cos it can't identify the RAM. It doesn't know how much RAM you have, how fast it is etc. In some PCs (usually custom-built ones) you can bypass the detection by access the BIOS firmware and setting all that stuff manually.

Sometimes this will "repair" the RAM

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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DanPE

The interesting thing about this is that you're already grounded, unless your feet don't touch the ground lol

the problem with static electricity is that you never know. If you live in a cold, dry climate (or have air-conditioning and a carpet) you might unknowingly charge yourself while walking across it. Or your hair might fall across your face, and then you brush it away. If you don't accidentally charge yourself in some way, or if you live in a humid, tropical climate, you don't really need to worry about static electricity.

So basically, you only need a grounding strap you work in a cold, dry climate and/or you have carpeting. If you work in a humid, tropical climate, you don't have to worry much about it.

You can't actually damage RAM with static electricity (unless you're some sort of walking van de graaf generator

) What you can do, however, is wipe the chip identification info. If you look at most DRAM "sticks" you will see a very small chip on it. That chip holds information about the RAM (such as what speed it is, etc.) If that info gets wiped, your PC doesn't boot 'cos it can't identify the RAM. It doesn't know how much RAM you have, how fast it is etc. In some PCs (usually custom-built ones) you can bypass the detection by access the BIOS firmware and setting all that stuff manually.

Sometimes this will "repair" the RAM

FIRST, allmost NOBODY is EVER grounded! Some touch screens are based on CAPACITANCE AND, if you WERE grounded, they would NOT work! They generally work fine. That kind of blows everything you said! HOW much grround do you figure is a GOOD conductor, and how many people walk BAREFOOT on that? So your theory doesn't even work out logically. You are RIGHT about "never knowing". WE are saying "WHY TAKE THE CHANCE?" You are right about humidity making it LESS likely, but it can STILL happen!

MAN, you do not know WHAT you are talking about. It IS true that they came up with methods to protect such circuitry in the mid 70s, but they DON'T generally use them! WHY? Increased cost, decreased yield/speed, etc.... And RAM IS SUSCEPTIBLE to ESD. Why do you think they use antistatic shipping materials, and have the ESD warning stickers?

If you use ram that is the too slow, it won't be noticed, or will APPEAR to run, and run unreliably. If the memory is 100% bad, the computer will generally ignore it, as long as it doesn't cause a short, etc...

BUT OK, DON'T listen to a person that worked with MOS and VLSI circuitry since the 1970s, or a computer technician that has been working with computers for over 5 years.

Steve

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DanPE

15 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

FIRST, allmost NOBODY is EVER grounded!

Okay, this is what I think :

I think it would be odd if people weren't grounded, if you weren't grounded, no one would ever be electrocuted. I was electrocuted once when I picked up a wire, because the shielding was torn and I didn't notice it. If I wasn't grounded, I wouldn't have been electrocuted, because electricity always finds the quickest path to ground, so if I'm not grounded, there would be no reason for it to flow through me at all, hence I would not have been electrocuted. Since I did get electrocuted, that must mean that I'm grounded, or that the stuff I learned about electricity is wrong.

Originally Posted by seasoned

Some touch screens are based on CAPACITANCE AND, if you WERE grounded, they would NOT work!

Sorry, but how does being able to alter the capacitance prove that something is not grounded?

Originally Posted by seasoned

HOW much grround do you figure is a GOOD conductor, and how many people walk BAREFOOT on that?

But then again, the grounding strap has to connect to something, and that something is standing on the same ground you are standing on. If that thing is standing on the same ground you are standing on, and it is grounded, how are you not grounded?

Originally Posted by seasoned

So your theory doesn't even work out logically. You are RIGHT about "never knowing". WE are saying "WHY TAKE THE CHANCE?" You are right about humidity making it LESS likely, but it can STILL happen!

I must be lucky then. This PC is just an open board (there's no case) and the power switch is on the board. I touch it every day when I turn it on. It's about two years old, which means I've touched it about 720 times.

Originally Posted by seasoned

RAM IS SUSCEPTIBLE to ESD. Why do you think they use antistatic shipping materials, and have the ESD warning stickers?

Mine came in a plastic box

Thanks
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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DanPE

Okay, this is what I think :

I think it would be odd if people weren't grounded, if you weren't grounded, no one would ever be electrocuted. I was electrocuted once when I picked up a wire, because the shielding was torn and I didn't notice it. If I wasn't grounded, I wouldn't have been electrocuted, because electricity always finds the quickest path to ground, so if I'm not grounded, there would be no reason for it to flow through me at all, hence I would not have been electrocuted. Since I did get electrocuted, that must mean that I'm grounded, or that the stuff I learned about electricity is wrong.

AIR is one of the best insulators around! THINK ABOUT IT! If air was NOT a good insulator, electricity couldn't exist. Batteries would have to be sealed VERY tight, all electronics would have to be sealed, etc.... So we can agree that air is a GOOD insulator, RIGHT!?!?!? Yet cars rely on it being a BAD insulator! I mean if air was a bad insulator, the average car battery could NEVER work, because they have air in them! If air was such a great insulator, the spark plugs couldn't spark. SO WHAT GIVES!?!?!? OK, here it goes! EVERY atom has electrons, so it figures that EVERYTHING is a conductor! EVEN RUBBER! It is simply that some things don't conduct WELL! If the frequency, or power goes up, insulators start to fail. On a car, the ignition coil drives the power up so that spark can be made.

And air is a good insulator. It is a LOT easier for power to go through YOU, then through the air. Do you REALLY think being on a little insulation is going to stop lightning that may have gone THOUSANDS of feet through the air!?!?

It would be nice to think that a little rubber coat, cap, and boots can protect you so well. The BEST way to stop lightning that ANYONE has found is the way to can best get away from a hungry lion. GIVE IT WHAT IT WANTS! With a lion, that might be a BIG piece of steak. With lightning, it is a nice short simple path to ground!

Sorry, but how does being able to alter the capacitance prove that something is not grounded?

The capacitance doesn't neccesarily vary, but old fashioned capacitors are basically two conductors, around an insulator. If there is a short between the two conductors, the capacitor becomes a normal conductor, and won't store power. Capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But then again, the grounding strap has to connect to something, and that something is standing on the same ground you are standing on. If that thing is standing on the same ground you are standing on, and it is grounded, how are you not grounded?

Most people work on electronics with shoes on, and are inside. Ground straps are supposed to be connected to an electrical ground that may end up hooking to a metal waterpipe that goes through the soil. So NOPE, it is NOT on the same ground you are. You think 3M(last I knew, perhaps the biggest maker of the straps, tricked all these electronic companies into believing a LIE!?!? Antistatic wrist strap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I must be lucky then. This PC is just an open board (there's no case) and the power switch is on the board. I touch it every day when I turn it on. It's about two years old, which means I've touched it about 720 times.

WOW, you actually go out of your way to touch the traces? You don't even have a cover on it?

Well, the memory, when in the circuit, DOES hook to other circuitry, etc... The total impedence drops, and the chances for a large potential difference ALSO drops. So it really isn't the same thing as an IC or memory module that is out in the open.

But HEY, by all means! Take the memory out of the computer, drag your feet on the carpet, make sure the humidity is low, and rub the pins on the memory, and reinsert the memory. Do THAT 720 times, if you get that high. After all, you said that CAN'T HURT! I am saying it very well MAY!

Steve

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WD Mino

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DanPE

The interesting thing about this is that you're already grounded, unless your feet don't touch the ground lol

the problem with static electricity is that you never know. If you live in a cold, dry climate (or have air-conditioning and a carpet) you might unknowingly charge yourself while walking across it. Or your hair might fall across your face, and then you brush it away. If you don't accidentally charge yourself in some way, or if you live in a humid, tropical climate, you don't really need to worry about static electricity.

So basically, you only need a grounding strap you work in a cold, dry climate and/or you have carpeting. If you work in a humid, tropical climate, you don't have to worry much about it.

You can't actually damage RAM with static electricity (unless you're some sort of walking van de graaf generator

) What you can do, however, is wipe the chip identification info. If you look at most DRAM "sticks" you will see a very small chip on it. That chip holds information about the RAM (such as what speed it is, etc.) If that info gets wiped, your PC doesn't boot 'cos it can't identify the RAM. It doesn't know how much RAM you have, how fast it is etc. In some PCs (usually custom-built ones) you can bypass the detection by access the BIOS firmware and setting all that stuff manually.

Sometimes this will "repair" the RAM

Couple things are wrong with your statements number 1 we are conductors. regardless of carpeting we are physical conductors

esd or Electro Static Discharge. is not equated with carpeting it is a charge that can come off of a person just touching a component the shock to that component can instantly become useless and or wiped clean. such as memory in this case.

there is no firmware that will recover the memory the memory itself is not memory therefore not recognized at power on self test. or better known as post. if memory is not recognized no firmware is going to detect what the internal bios operating system cannot being as it must be registered in the bios to be used.

Touching any component can cause risk to the component touching it without grounding yourself could even cause the computer mother board to blow up so your advice is not accurate. and better left unsaid.

-WD

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DanPE

15 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Mino

We are conductors. regardless of carpeting we are physical conductors

Exactly. We are conductors and not generators. The static electricity that is stored in our bodies has to come from somewhere else. We are conductors but we are not generators.

Originally Posted by WD Mino

if memory is not recognized no firmware is going to detect what the internal bios operating system cannot being as it must be registered in the bios to be used.

I think you can register it manually in the BIOS, if there's an option.

Originally Posted by WD Mino

Touching any component can cause risk to the component touching it without grounding yourself could even cause the computer mother board to blow up so your advice is not accurate. and better left unsaid.

Okay, which parts are incorrect? I'd be happy to correct it.

Thanks
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Michael Motley 15 years ago

Originally Posted by DanPE

Okay, which parts are incorrect? I'd be happy to correct it.

the part about damaging ram. The #1 killer of mem sticks is static discharge. even the smallest amount can destroy ram.
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seasoned

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DanPE

Exactly. We are conductors and not generators. The static electricity that is stored in our bodies has to come from somewhere else. We are conductors but we are not generators.

YEP! Ever heard of LIGHTNING!?!?!? BTW lightning DOES happen while it is raining!

Lightning is caused by the conductivity of the air increasing such, or the potential of difference increasing such, that a complete circuit can be made between two dissparate sources. The power crosses that gap and is SO great that it lights up the sky, etc....
BTW The human body CAN collect smaller charges(through a vehicle known as static electricity), and STORE them through a vehicle known as CAPACITANCE! You basically become a battery(much like the sky). When you touch something that has a higher ground potential, you can get a shock.

BTW contrary to belief, people are NOT good conductors, and water isn't either. They are better than air, but not that great. If you had a 15v power source, and a 1v light, neither your body, NOR water, would likely conduct enough electricity to light that light. HECK, lead acid batteries have WATER in the electrolyte. If water were a GREAT conductor, they would short out! In fact, if your skin were a great conductor, you probably couldn't even die from an electrical shock. The power would simply go from one arm to the other and not hit your heart. HECK, THAT is why defibrillators use so much current, etc...

Originally Posted by DanPE

I think you can register it manually in the BIOS, if there's an option.

YEP, YOU'RE RIGHT! So WHAT is your point? NOBODY buys more memory so they can say they have more memory! They buy more memory so they HAVE memory THEY CAN USE! You can trick the boot into thinking it has more memory, and disable the POST so everything else thinks you have more memory, but the SECOND the system has to use a bit that doesn't exist, you will get corrupted data, a hung system, or a CRASH! So WHAT IS YOUR POINT!?!?

Originally Posted by DanPE

Okay, which parts are incorrect? I'd be happy to correct it.

You seem to want to err on the side of RISK! That is a BAD place to be. USUALLY people do that for more reward, or a lower cost, or less effort, but you really get NONE of that HERE!

Steve

Thanks
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DanPE

15 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Lightning is caused by the conductivity of the air increasing such, or the potential of difference increasing such, that a complete circuit can be made between two dissparate sources. The power crosses that gap and is SO great that it lights up the sky, etc....
BTW The human body CAN collect smaller charges(through a vehicle known as static electricity), and STORE them through a vehicle known as CAPACITANCE! You basically become a battery(much like the sky). When you touch something that has a higher ground potential, you can get a shock.

If it can collect smaller charges, why can't it collect larger charges?

Originally Posted by seasoned

YEP, YOU'RE RIGHT! So WHAT is your point? NOBODY buys more memory so they can say they have more memory! They buy more memory so they HAVE memory THEY CAN USE! You can trick the boot into thinking it has more memory, and disable the POST so everything else thinks you have more memory, but the SECOND the system has to use a bit that doesn't exist, you will get corrupted data, a hung system, or a CRASH! So WHAT IS YOUR POINT!?!?

Don't need to disable the POST, and you can use memtest86 or whatever to test the RAM.

Thanks
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seasoned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by DanPE

If it can collect smaller charges, why can't it collect larger charges?

Don't need to disable the POST, and you can use memtest86 or whatever to test the RAM.

Dan,

Just PROMISE ME SOMETHING! Don't EVER go into the sale/packaging of computer parts, or support or "education" of it. Frankly, people have ENOUGH problems. I am SICK of hearing about how certain manufacturers are bad and THEN seeing how the stores handle them. Sometimes I wish the parts were like old TV sets. A LOT of idiots have been shocked, some may EVEN have died, because they fooled around with old TV sets and got ELECTROCUTED by a capacitor that STILL had a charge! A person that knows ANYTHING about what they are doing discharges them first, and doesn't have to worry. Don't worry though, todays sets require FAR less power and probably don't have anything close to that. It's a good thing too. Capacitance is measured in FARADS. I used to wonder how big a capacitor would have to be to be 1 farad. I mused that it would have to be GIGANTIC! Well, they NOW have 1 farad capacitors that are possibly only a few square inches.

Keep in mind, that the following article was written LONG after I wondered about this:

HowStuffWorks "Farad"

even THERE they talk about how big it would have to be. And the capacitors in those old TV sets are near the size of a coke can and not near a farad.

Anyway, complacency is a CANCER! PLEASE DON'T SPREAD IT!

Steve
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Sevenhills

15 years ago

Its very easy, three things to remember:

1. Make sure you use the right type of memory, double check it on your current module
2. Switch of the power! Meaning you take the plug out as well
3. Take it easy, dont try to force the module in the socket

And yes, you will see a difference, especially when your running several processes at the same time.

Thanks

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lolawanda

15 years ago

there is statis gloves in the market but you didn't need it...one member said here that you just need to hold the unpainted part of your system unit, be sure it is unplugged and that's

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James12C

15 years ago

look - it's easy. Get an antistatic strap - OK - you'll feel you're defusing a device and sweat a bit but then it's done.

And, yes, Pshop will play faster....

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Mike Wright 15 years ago

Might be worth considering a complete "heart transplant" via
buying a dual/quad core CPU/motherboard/ddr2 memory bundle.
So long as your PSU and graphics card is compatible, this is
a fairly easy and inexpensive upgrade.

Another option is to upgrade the graphics card.

Single core P4 and comparable AMD systems are worth very little
money these days ...while the DDR ram modules are becoming
relatively costly compared to DDR2.

Not sure whether it is a good idea to add a $100 worth of ram
to a say $50 system. ... when for say $200 you could get a
dual core transplant with DDR2 ram ?????

Photoshop is designed to make maximum use of multicore
cpus ..... and flies on the quadcore intel that I built for my son :0)

Just worth looking a bit further before you leap
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- rockyk 15 years ago
  
  Thanks a bunch for all the replies. Went to crucial.com and did their diagnostic to determine the exact RAM I needed. I ended up ordering the upgrade to 4GB from 1GB so can't wait to see the performance increase. I checked newegg and tigerdirect but prices pretty much the same so i ordered with crucial.com for some extra benefits they offer.
  
  @Mike- In a couple months I am gonna build a new system and will remember your advice, definitely wanna get upgraded motherboard and video.
  
  Thanks
  
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  If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. - Bruce Lee
  
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aciidb0mb3r

15 years ago

its very easy to do you dont need to wear any gloves or something , just dont break the ram stick

Thanks
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Kat Bartone 15 years ago

Rocky,

Please follow seasoned's advice to a 't'. Everything he says is COMPLETELY RIGHT ON.

Electrostatic discharge CAN and DOES damage RAM. Inside the device is a very thin semiconductor film that can be easily damaged with static. And the bummer is, sometimes it's not a catastrophic failure that you immediately see, but rather the material can be degraded so it fails before its time, or acts flaky, and creates a random problem that's more difficult to troubleshoot.

When you touch a doorknob and feel and/or see the discharge, that discharge is on the order of 3000 - 5000 volts. (You don't really get hurt because the current is so low). BUT an electrostatic discharge of as few as 30 volts can damage your RAM, or any other semiconductor device (e.g., the chips on the circuit board that's on your hard drive, for example). You will NEVER feel the discharge, but it's happening.

Lots of people choose to take a blind or careless approach. Don't do it. If you read your manufacturer's manual / user guide / computer documentation etc you're going to see this very information.

I usually use a wrist strap, but if I don't, I make sure that I'm not trudging across carpeted floors, and I make sure to discharge myself to grounded metal - usually several times during any similar procedure that I'm undertaking. I also avoid nylon clothing - you see yourself how static-y it is when you take it out of the dryer.

My advice, play it safe. Why take chances? Doing it safely just requires a little mindfulness, not the skills of a surgeon. It's easy to do and worth the tiny effort expended.

Good luck.

- Kat Bartone
(about me: happy warrior, aspiring musician, and A+ certified computer technician, recently retired from a long career teaching computer repair and networking).
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Michael Motley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by rockyk

Good news! Just got a tax refund of a few hundred bucks so I want to upgrade my desktop's RAM. Right now I've got a Pentium 4-3.20GHz with only 1GB of RAM. Two questions:

1. Is it really that difficult to install these things on my own? Of course I know I need to buy an antistatic glove, any other tips?

2. I should see a big difference in computer performance(mainly speed) going from 1 to 4GB RAM right?

installing ram is not a big deal just remember a few things.

1 always install ram in the slot closest to the processor first
2. ground yourself. the biggest 'killer' of ram is static electricity
3. dont touch the contacts. oil from your skin will make them corrode

Thanks

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KimW

15 years ago

Listen, all these posts are fine and good, but in reality adding memory is one of the easiest upgrades someone can do, and about the only one I would recommend a non tech do.

Open case
pop in memory
close case
boot machine.

99% of the time your done with no problems

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glchandler 15 years ago

99% of the time your done with no problems

Now I understand why the outlaw bikers call themselves the 1%ers---because they>>>>>

3. Take it easy, dont try to force the module in the socket

>>>>>>forced their module into the socket improperly!
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theunknownthem

15 years ago

Every one seemed to over look the fact that if it's a 32bit operating system then you won't see the full 4gigs of ram running.

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seasoned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by theunknownthem

Every one seemed to over look the fact that if it's a 32bit operating system then you won't see the full 4gigs of ram running.

VERY TRUE, as long as you use an 80x86 computer that is no later than the 80286. In the 80386, they added a memory mapper, flat memory mode, and support for 4GB pages.

Of course, ALL IBM compatible systems have had access to memory banks over the 640K or so.

Steve
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chanchalseo

15 years ago

You can upgrade your computer pretty easy, but the cost wont be worth it.

In the case of upgrading your PC you have to buy a very reasonable motherboard to stick your new ram, cpu and graphics card.

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