Anyone boycotting BP?

16 years ago

Quite a few have advised this and started blogs about it, etc - but I don't any of them live in the affected areas.

"Feel good" maybe - but down here we want BP to remain profitable so they can pay the huge bills they will be charged.

BP doesn't own those gas stations - they are just franchises owned by local sin most cases. Even so, a boycott later is one thing - trying to harm BP's financial stability now is not helpful when we are counting on that profit to keep the corp in business and pay the damages here.

Just my take on it. Do I use local BP stations? No - but I didn't before the spill either. I didn't care for BP's record before this crisis so have never stopped there.

kay

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AffiliateCashPile 16 years ago

Great points,
I thought about this already. I concluded that it just makes me feel better LOL. A way to express my anger over the situation i suppose. I know it's not an easy task but oil is still gushing out so many days later. Just horrible.
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- Kay King 16 years ago
  
  I understand as I've done things because they make me feel better for doing them (or not doing them). It's human nature and nothing wrong with it.
  
  What I don't care much for are the people online who are trying to organize boycotts as I think it's a personal decision. I respect those who follow their conscience - but not so much those who just follow a "cause" created by someone else.
  
  kay
  
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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Boycotting BP may make some sort of sense, but boycotting BP gas stations only affects the owners of the stations. And, in most cases, they are hard working people trying to make a living.

They just so happen to be selling gas that they get from BP.

Most of the profits from these mom and pop operations don't come from gas sales anyway.

Anybody boycotting BP gas stations is either jumping on the bandwagon, or not thinking things through.

You can buy your gas from anywhere you wish, but be sure you're not doing it for the wrong reasons.

All the best,
Michael

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seasoned

16 years ago

I already said this, but I am with kay. Before the "spill" I MIGHT have used BP as much as 10%(about once a YEAR) of the time, and now it is zero, but I don't get gas that often, etc... anyway.

But the only people that can REALLY boycott BP are the stations themselves, and I don't think they can simply SWITCH companies. It may be quite expensive to do so. Changing signs is ALSO expensive. In MOST cases, boycotting a product affects a minor part of the income from the company you don't buy from. For a company like BP, it represents basically all of their business.

Steve

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

If you really want to make a difference, to have a possible impact on preventing this from happening again, then boycott the use of oil, period.

Let's people get behind THAT cause.

~M~

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Black Hat Cat

Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

If you really want to make a difference, to have a possible impact on preventing this from happening again, then boycott the use of oil, period.

Let's people get behind THAT cause.

~M~

I agree. Let's ride unicorns instead.

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gbaggs2 16 years ago

Well said Black Hat Cat!
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BlazingSwitch

16 years ago

Nah.

I simply can't be bothered by it. They claim to be doing everything possible, and while this is one of the worst disasters in the world history. I frankly do not think boycotting them over an American run/owned rig is going to solve anything.

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Dan C. Rinnert 16 years ago

I look at the price more so than the logo. As a result, I generally boycott all the stations except the one with the best price.
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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

There are no BP stations in a convenient location around where I live, so I never buy from one anyway...

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CDarklock

16 years ago

OMFG, a major corporation had a massive industrial accident that will cost billions to clean up. Let's not give them any money.

That will sure get things cleaned up faster.

We'll show you! We'll make sure your mistake completely ruins your company, and leaves... um... all the people you employ jobless.

And all your stockholders financially slaughtered.

And all those gas stations closed.

Hey, while we're at it? Let's all take a sharp stick and poke ourselves in the eye.

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

OMFG, a major corporation had a massive industrial accident that will cost billions to clean up. Let's not give them any money.

That will sure get things cleaned up faster.

We'll show you! We'll make sure your mistake completely ruins your company, and leaves... um... all the people you employ jobless.

And all your stockholders financially slaughtered.

And all those gas stations closed.

Hey, while we're at it? Let's all take a sharp stick and poke ourselves in the eye.

Great idea! Let's ignore the shop owners that didn't buy gas from a company that has proven itself not to give a damn about safety and murdered 11 workers and go to to BP!

Forget about those that invested in a company like Shell that had less than 1% of the safety violations that BP did! They don't deserve our money because they didn't ruin the Gulf! So let's all run to BP and keep them in business instead of supporting the companies that didn't kill the ocean.

Screw BP. Invest with, and support the other companies that didn't killl the Gulf. Exxon station owners have employees and bills to pay, too. Exxon shareholders have retirement funds, too.

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Great idea! Let's ignore the shop owners that didn't buy gas from a company that has proven itself not to give a damn about safety and murdered 11 workers and go to to BP!

Forget about those that invested in a company like Shell that had less than 1% of the safety violations that BP did! They don't deserve our money because they didn't ruin the Gulf! So let's all run to BP and keep them in business instead of supporting the companies that didn't kill the ocean.

Screw BP. Invest with, and support the other companies that didn't killl the Gulf. Exxon station owners have employees and bills to pay, too. Exxon shareholders have retirement funds, too.

That's true, too.

However, if somebody thinks boycotting BP stations is the right answer, right now, then I believe they are mistaken.

I am not suggesting people go out of their way to purchase gas from BP, but they don't have to go out of their way to avoid it either. They should feel free to go to a BP station without experiencing the slightest twinge of guilt.

But, if they choose not to buy from BP, that's up to them, but only in so far as they have thought it through and aren't just caught up in some sort of misplaced anti-BP sentiments.

All the best,
Michael

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

That's true, too.

However, if somebody thinks boycotting BP stations is the right answer, right now, then I believe they are mistaken.

I am not suggesting people go out of their way to purchase gas from BP, but they don't have to go out of their way to avoid it either. They should feel free to go to a BP station without experiencing the slightest twinge of guilt.

But, if they choose not to buy from BP, that's up to them, but only in so far as they have thought it through and aren't just caught up in some sort of misplaced anti-BP sentiments.

All the best,
Michael

And I believe if you don't boycott a company for doing what BP did, what do you boycott a company for?

Maybe if every other company that has public safety in it's hands sees what happened to BP could happen to them won't take the shortcuts BP did. And I'm not just talking about oil. Companies like Monsanto, Dupont, etc.

Stockholders should also be made aware that they are indeed responsible for the companies they invest in and when buy stocks in a company like BP, they should consider the safety records of that company. Had invdestors done due dilligence, the would have seen that BP had 100X the safetly violations the other companies did, and should have assumed their money was at a higher risk because of it.

This isn't just about BP. It's about every company that makes money by taking risks with public assets. You kill a gulf, and your company will get the death penalty.

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Kay King 16 years ago

I have no problem with a dealth penalty for BP....AFTER THEY PAY THE CLAIMS.

The goal to cripple the company now - which is the stated goal of all of the "boycott" enthusiasts who want to drive BP's value down.

Until they are done paying for the damage they've done, I want BP to remain profitable. Once that is done - and all the claims have been paid - THEN a boycott might be a good idea.
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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

And I believe if you don't boycott a company for doing what BP did, what do you boycott a company for?

Maybe if every other company that has public safety in it's hands sees what happened to BP could happen to them won't take the shortcuts BP did. And I'm not just talking about oil. Companies like Monsanto, Dupont, etc.

Stockholders should also be made aware that they are indeed responsible for the companies they invest in and when buy stocks in a company like BP, they should consider the safety records of that company. Had invdestors done due dilligence, the would have seen that BP had 100X the safetly violations the other companies did, and should have assumed their money was at a higher risk because of it.

This isn't just about BP. It's about every company that makes money by taking risks with public assets. You kill a gulf, and your company will get the death penalty.

Hi Kurt,

Do you see me defending BP?

Notice I said "right now", that's virtually the same thing others here are saying.

However, every day that untold barrels of oil gush into the Gulf, is another day that BP makes a bigger mess to get out of. It's very possible that BP's investors will dump the stock - making any boycott look like a speck of sand.

I didn't say anything about investors not losing money on my posts above. They are the exact people who should suffer the brunt of any damages. That's just part of the risk of investing. However, many of the owners of the gas stations that just so happen to sell gas from BP aren't investors. At least give them a chance to switch brands.

Also, I said "But, if they choose not to buy from BP, that's up to them, but only in so far as they have thought it through and aren't just caught up in some sort of misplaced anti-BP sentiments." Where do I say people shouldn't boycott them?

All I'm saying is they should understand WHY they are doing it, all of the ramifications, and not doing so just because they some fan page for it on Facebook.

I'm not sure what I said, but I get the impression I am not communicating my thoughts properly, because I don't think they are being understood (and I believe being understood is the onus of the writer, not the reader).

Anyway, I hope I clarified things a bit.

All the best,
Michael

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The 13th Warrior

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Great idea! Let's ignore the shop owners that didn't buy gas from a company that has proven itself not to give a damn about safety and murdered 11 workers and go to to BP!

I'm curious as to how BP is to be convicted.

When the Government and its Oversight and Enforcement agencies pretty much gave the green light on everything they done, how do you convict for violations of the law when THE LAW gave you permission to do what you want?

Quite the joke.

The 13th Warrior

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior

I'm curious as to how BP is to be convicted.

When the Government and its Oversight and Enforcement agencies pretty much gave the green light on everything they done, how do you convict for violations of the law when THE LAW gave you permission to do what you want?

Quite the joke.

The 13th Warrior

Who said I was convicting them? I stated an opinion based on the fact that they ignored known safety procedures resulting in the deaths of 11 people. My opinion is just that and doesn't put anyone in prison or make anyone liable for damages.

And even if a gov official gives you direct permission to kill someone, are you going to use that as a legal defense? Can you please post a link to this legal theory?

Let's not ignore the simple fact that our gov also approved the safety procedures for all the other oil companies, also.

Yet despite the same safety approval process for ALL oil companies, these are the facts about BP:

Back in 2007, a BP pipeline spilled 200,000 gallons of crude into the Alaskan wilderness. They got hit with $16 million in fines.

"The Justice Department required the company to pay approximately $353 million as part of an agreement to defer prosecution on charges that the company conspired to manipulate the propane gas market."

In two separate disasters prior to Deepwater Horizon, 30 BP workers were killed and more than 200 have been seriously injured.

"According to the Center for Public Integrity, in the last three years, BP refineries in Ohio and Texas have accounted for 97 percent of the "egregious, willful" violations handed out by OSHA"

OSHA statistics show BP ran up 760 "egregious, willful" safety violations, while Sunoco and Conoco-Phillips each had eight, Citgo had two and Exxon had one comparable citation

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bp-has-been-fined-by-osha-760-times-has-an-awful-track-record-for-safety-2010-6#ixzz0tcOI0eDg

I'd say if you have 100X the OSHA safety violations as your competitors, the excuse that the government "approved" what you were doing just doesn't hold water and the odds of killing someone are also increased proportionately.

The real joke is thinking that BP shouldn't be held responsible and people not only accept, but defend this BS. BP is the new BS.

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The 13th Warrior

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Who said I was convicting them?

Unless you are a Government official this forum does not know about, I was not talking about you convicting them, unless you have some jurisdiction we are unaware of.

Originally Posted by Kurt

And even if a gov official gives you direct permission to kill someone, are you going to use that as a legal defense? Can you please post a link to this legal theory?

How about three letters?

C.I.A., for starters, government gives green light on this stuff all the time, of course, most agencies have reasonable deniability....,

"........the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions."

Outsourcing work that is the governments job is one way of "reasonable deniability", looks good to the common american citizen and is acceptable.

The 13th Warrior

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior

Unless you are a Government official this forum does not know about, I was not talking about you convicting them, unless you have some jurisdiction we are unaware of.

How about three letters?

C.I.A., for starters, government gives green light on this stuff all the time, of course, most agencies have reasonable deniability....,

"........the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions."

Outsourcing work that is the governments job is one way of "reasonable deniability", looks good to the common american citizen and is acceptable.

The 13th Warrior

If you weren't talking about me convicting them, then don't quote me directly and use the word "you".

And I asked for a direct link to support your legal theory to support a legal defense for BP, not the CIA as I don't buy your premise that BP's "reasonable deniability looks good to the common american citizen and is acceptable". I hope you're not speaking for me.

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imehe

16 years ago

There has been numerous oil spills in Africa maybe not in the magnitude we have here. You are talking about a whole region where wildlife devestation and human displacement is routine. It's about time somebody pay Big bucks for this mess. If boycott is achievable so be it.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

I have a question...

When has a boycott ever REALLY worked?

I remember people "boycotting" Exxon all those years ago after Valdez... you see where THAT got them.

There is no simple answer. But maybe focusing on boycotting is wasting energy that could go towards finding a better solution.

I don't have the answers either. But it seems from where I sit, boycotting has little - if any - effect.

Unless I'm mistaken?

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ThomM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

I have a question...

When has a boycott ever REALLY worked?

I remember people "boycotting" Exxon all those years ago after Valdez... you see where THAT got them.

There is no simple answer. But maybe focusing on boycotting is wasting energy that could go towards finding a better solution.

I don't have the answers either. But it seems from where I sit, boycotting has little - if any - effect.

Unless I'm mistaken?

I think in this case it may be somewhat working.
I know BP has worked out some kind of deal with their distributors to compensate them for the drop in sales.
Like you in lower NY, up here by Albany I know there are a couple of BP stations, but I don't have a clue where they are.
In other words, they're scarce.
I did get gas at one years ago and it was bad gas.
Also when I rode my bike to Fl. 2 years ago I tracked my mileage and noted where I got gas. Consistently I got the worst mileage when I filled up at a BP. That was the last time I used their gas and I don't see a reason to try it again.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I think in this case it may be somewhat working.
I know BP has worked out some kind of deal with their distributors to compensate them for the drop in sales.
Like you in lower NY, up here by Albany I know there are a couple of BP stations, but I don't have a clue where they are.
In other words, they're scarce.
I did get gas at one years ago and it was bad gas.
Also when I rode my bike to Fl. 2 years ago I tracked my mileage and noted where I got gas. Consistently I got the worst mileage when I filled up at a BP. That was the last time I used their gas and I don't see a reason to try it again.

Hmmm - then it seems it's more of a quality issue - LOL.

There was a BP station in the town I grew up in in N.J. And I pass them from time to time when I travel. Other than that, I don't use them.

I brought up the boycott thing because other than it "sounding" like something effective, I can't say I see any benefit. Sure, maybe short term it will hit the wallet but what LASTING change does it bring?

Going back to the Valdez reference, I remember everyone saying to boycott Exxon all those years ago. I don't know what the short term was, but long term, they post record profits year after year.

And interestingly, I recently saw or read somewhere that 20 years later, much of the area that was contaminated up there in Alaska is STILL contaminated. That all the "clean up efforts" were merely surface cleanup for the camera - you know, good P.R.

It seems that if B.P. has such a lousy track record (as I have been reading in these threads) then someone is sleeping at the wheel - both at the corporate levels and the government level. Putting B.P. out of business may seem like a good idea to some, but like drug dealers - if you take out one real bad guy today, tomorrow you'll have dozens more lining up to take his place. You can bet all the corporate honchos will land safely with their golden parachutes. So who REALLY suffers if they go under?

Interesting, indeed...

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ThomM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Hmmm - then it seems it's more of a quality issue - LOL.

There was a BP station in the town I grew up in in N.J. And I pass them from time to time when I travel. Other than that, I don't use them.

I brought up the boycott thing because other than it "sounding" like something effective, I can't say I see any benefit. Sure, maybe short term it will hit the wallet but what LASTING change does it bring?

Going back to the Valdez reference, I remember everyone saying to boycott Exxon all those years ago. I don't know what the short term was, but long term, they post record profits year after year.

And interestingly, I recently saw or read somewhere that 20 years later, much of the area that was contaminated up there in Alaska is STILL contaminated. That all the "clean up efforts" were merely surface cleanup for the camera - you know, good P.R.

It seems that if B.P. has such a lousy track record (as I have been reading in these threads) then someone is sleeping at the wheel - both at the corporate levels and the government level. Putting B.P. out of business may seem like a good idea to some, but like drug dealers - if you take out one real bad guy today, tomorrow you'll have dozens more lining up to take his place. You can bet all the corporate honchos will land safely with their golden parachutes. So who REALLY suffers if they go under?

Interesting, indeed...

Yep it is a quality issue I have with them.

As for the rest of your post, I got to agree.
Seems both the public and government have short memories.

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thunderbird

16 years ago

Weirdly, the solution to world energy problems is algae (while producing ethanol from corn uses as much fuel as it produces, rendering it totally useless -- maybe even corrupt -- farce thus far):
Green Dreams - National Geographic Magazine
"There is no magic-bullet fuel crop that can solve our energy woes without harming the environment, says virtually every scientist studying the issue. But most say that algae–single-celled pond scum–comes closer than any other plant because it grows in wastewater, even seawater, requiring little more than sunlight and carbon dioxide to flourish. ...<snip>

GreenFuel Technologies, of Cambridge, Massachusetts, is at the head of the pack. Founded by MIT chemist Isaac Berzin, the company has developed a process that uses algae in plastic bags to siphon carbon dioxide from the smoke-stack emissions of power plants. Algae not only reduce a plant's global warming gases, but also devour other pollutants. Some algae make starch, which can be processed into ethanol; others produce tiny droplets of oil that can be brewed into biodiesel or even jet fuel. Best of all, algae in the right conditions can double in mass within hours. While each acre of corn produces around 300 gallons (1,135 liters) of ethanol a year and an acre of soybeans around 60 gallons (227 liters) of biodiesel, each acre of algae theoretically can churn out more than 5,000 gallons (19,000 liters) of biofuel each year. "

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HeySal

16 years ago

The real question is not whether to boycott the company if you feel it should be boycotted............the real question lies in - how many feel strongly enough about killing the beast to boycott. I'm not buying from them.

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Alan Petersen

16 years ago

Boycotting is short-term to make people feel good that they're doing something when in reality they're doing more damage than good.

Let's direct that anger on making us less dependent on oil than punishing a small business owner who had the bad luck of going with a BP franchise than any of the other ones.

My uncle ran his gas station as a Conoco franchise for over 40 years in his small town and the gas was a loss-leader. Money was made from the snacks, sodas, etc. he sold, his car-wash, and mechanic services. The gas was just the front end... his livelihood was the backend INSIDE his station.

So if boycotting your local BP station makes you feel good inside like you're "changing the world" or punishing BP (you're not) fine... boycott the gas but go inside and buy a coke, some beef jerky and maybe even a lotto ticket so that the small business owner doesn't go under.

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garyv

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Alan Petersen

Boycotting is short-term to make people feel good that they're doing something when in reality they're doing more damage than good.

Let's direct that anger on making us less dependent on oil than punishing a small business owner who had the bad luck of going with a BP franchise than any of the other ones.

My uncle ran his gas station as a Conoco franchise for over 40 years in his small town and the gas was a loss-leader. Money was made from the snacks, sodas, etc. he sold, his car-wash, and mechanic services. The gas was just the front end... his livelihood was the backend INSIDE his station.

So if boycotting your local BP station makes you feel good inside like you're "changing the world" or punishing BP (you're not) fine... boycott the gas but go inside and buy a coke, some beef jerky and maybe even a lotto ticket so that the small business owner doesn't go under.

I agree. The best thing we could do is to become more focused on becoming oil free. And I'm not talking about some kind of weird hefty taxes on those that use oil. But putting more money and tax-breaks into new technologies and innovation.

And you're right about gas usually being a loss-leader. I managed a Gas station for a while, and our money maker far and above anything else was cigarettes. In fact, our gas station was connected with a local grocery store, and they'd often give gas away, just to get people to shop there.

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HeySal

16 years ago

I'm boycotting. I don't believe that it's a bad thing to get rid of an extensively dangerous and corrupt company - and when I found out that BP was installed and hedged for contracts involving cap and trade - in turn promoting cap and trade, I was very disgusted.

Companies used to be boycotted and when one fell, others were always around to take their place. There are a lot of companies out there to take up where BP leaves off and they will need the manpower to do it - it's just a trade, people won't be out of work forever. That's how free enterprise is supposed to work. It's not normal to have companies surviving solely because the gov has the control switch. It's not safe in the long run either.

In free enterprise, a company fails when the public has no confidence in it - and other companies arise to take its place. If they are honest and provide good services, they survive - if not the public votes against them. When people become so soaked in the right now that they don't look at down the road -- well, this is the kind of crap you end up with.

We either get rid of companies that have records that BP does, or we end up with more gov controlled and fed nightmares. Right now the big corps doing the most damage and causing the most deaths are finding sanctuary in their cronyism with gov members and we're being completely enslaved over it. Everyone happy with the monster Monsanto has become? Any GM research not from their own labs is being suppressed. The whole agriculture industry is being torked for them - the food is being found to be poisonous in every study not originating from Monsanto labs (they have big money in the FDA, too). They are causing ecological damage, price hikes (seeds are outrageously high and it is becoming more and more impossible for farmers to get seeds elsewhere - and they can't re-plant with seeds from Monsanto crops because they won't grow. So your food is becoming less nutritious and very expensive. So -- should we save that company just because some jobs will be lost and the workers will need to be shuffled through different industries? There would never be an industry to spring up to take Monsanto's place with safer products that make more sense ecologically and economically?

Now people are afraid to work in the very way that keeps free enterprise free because of jobs. I say this is the perfect time to get our acts together and clean up everything. We can already see the alternatives if we don't -- and if you want to be scared, that should be enough to motivate people to take the chances we need them to take right now to bring back free enterprise.

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JTor

16 years ago

I am boycotting BP and Exxon.

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thunderbird

16 years ago

When people live a lifestyle that involves heavy use of fossil fuels, it demands industry and infrastructure to support it. It has to come from somewhere to support such a way of life. The cumulative pollution of automobiles emissions is massive and greater than that of industry, but cars are so integral to modern life that not having one can seriously limit things for someone. Anyway, the problem is more the addiction to a lifestyle than the pushers (eg BP) who meet the demand, so to speak.

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Looks like boycots are having an effect already as some BP gas station owners are changing or trying to change to another brand:

Some independent owners of BP gas stations in Michigan say they have switched or are trying to switch brands amid customer boycotts sparked by the continuing Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

Abdel Berry, who owns three BP stations in the Detroit area, is converting two of them to the Sunoco brand. Berry said business is down at one location from 800 gallons to 500 gallons a day.

"It's either change or go out of business," he told the Detroit Free Press for a story Wednesday.

Station owner Fred Asmar said he's under a multiyear contract with BP so he can't switch. He has lowered prices at his Detroit station to bring back customers but business is still down.

BP PLC said late last month that it would offer distributors money back for gas they buy at terminals. BP said the cash is for gallons purchased in June, July and August, and amounts to 2 cents per gallon along the Gulf Coast and 1 cent per gallon in the East and Midwest....

Some BP-branded gas stations have reported sales declines of 10 percent to 40 percent from Florida to the Midwest since the April 20 rig explosion and resulting spill that have tarnished BP's image.

Some BP Gas Stations Switch Brands: 'It's Either Change Or Go Out Of Business'

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gbaggs2

16 years ago

Hell no! No matter what anybody says this could of happened to any one of the major oil companies. All of them play with the same playbook, BP just got lazy and now it's going to haunt them for years to come. All these companies are in bed with each other so if you boycott them you're just hurting no one but yourself. It's not fair, but that's life.

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HeySal

16 years ago

I've wanted to see that monster die since the Valdez spill - which they were able to completely pawn off on someone else. Then after the Alaska spill and betrayal (selling OUR oil offshore) I have never knowingly bought it again. I will continue to never knowingly buy from them. They might need to pay off this spill - but, as long as they are alive, there is a chance of them doing more damage. Economic principles such as jobs can be argued for every large offensive industrial complex monster - but through history, when a company shuts down, others take their places, so, no - I will not support BP -- or Monsanto, or many other companies that I have found to be too big for our good and corrupt as hell and involved with the crony capitalist complexes.

As far as BP paying the toll - I'm not going to be one whit surprised when we see us getting hammered in the long run whether BP is around or not.

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HeySal

16 years ago

Japan has invented a way to make plastic from water - just stopping the amount of oil we use to make that toxic crap can save us one hell of a lot of oil usage and help us clean up as well.

As mentioned in another thread - BP already has plans for a new and very inventive fashion of drill in Alaska. We already have seen how BP treated the last big Alaska drill. LOL. crap. IT would be a highly good idea to get rid of them before they touch our Northern extremities, too. One more of their mistakes and we might not have to worry about trivia such as a small business owner having to either find a new supplier or going out of business. This company is just destruction and mayhem and they need to be stopped.

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sarahberra

16 years ago

I get the feeling that the gov is in bed with BP. They both seem to think alike, yet they attack eachother. Weird. Is this all some big game??

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seasoned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by sarahberra

I get the feeling that the gov is in bed with BP. They both seem to think alike, yet they attack eachother. Weird. Is this all some big game??

YEP, it IS!!
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- ThomM 16 years ago
  
  To all the people crying about the distributors loosing income, all I got to say is tough.
  Large companies have gone under before leaving their distributors out in the cold. When Indian went under in the 50's dealers all over the country lost their income.
  What did they do? Well for the most part they became dealers for other brands of motorcycles.
  What about when Montgomery Wards went under? I don't remember everyone rushing to Wards stores to save the jobs of all those people.
  I hope the fines, clean up cost, etc., wipe BP right off the map.
  They deserve nothing but the worst to happen to them.
  
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HeySal

16 years ago

Originally Posted by sarahberra

I get the feeling that the gov is in bed with BP. They both seem to think alike, yet they attack eachother. Weird. Is this all some big game??

Yep - BP is brought to you at the very top level by the same fine people who bring you another beast: Monsanto.

BP was in line for a lot of business in the green industry (I love irony) via the cap and trade initiative - and earned that by their very generous financial election support and via expensive lobbying efforts.

BP has been creating ecological nightmares for us for several decades but because of their integration with world powers, they slide through every disaster without a hitch -- and yes, they got out of the Valdez spill with hardly a mention of their name, but it was a real close call for them. Exxon got all the publicly aimed credit for their part in that one.

Sure it does. If people start boycotting BP stations owned by americans, how are these people going to make an adequate living? Sure they can switch, but that process takes months and I would assume isn't very cheap.

Too bad the damage they do isn't a matter of whole months to clean up. What these guys do we won't see the complete "cure" for happen even in our lifetimes.

I know times are hard - I'm not having a good time myself right now -- but I'm not that pigheaded to think that my employment depends on one stinking company that is happens to be the equivalent of ecological terrorist. Every time a company goes under some people need to find new jobs - that is no reason whatsoever to sell out our entire planet to a company who is nothing more than a serial killer. In fact -- "If they close I have to find a new job" is just plain psychotic thinking when we are dealing with ruin on the scale that these guys have been dishing it out -- over and over and over again. Most people would expect to go to jail for this kind of misconduct -- and with this company people are whining to just let them off the hook. Grreeeaaaaaaaat.

And - if you think for one minute that YOU and I aren't going to be paying part of this bill, you haven't been watching current events for the last damned decade.

Right now this company wants to drill in Alaska again.
Put it together - Valdez spill, Alaska spill (environmental damage and sales betrayal), Mexico explosion (human deaths and environmental damage), Texas explosion (human death and environmental), Gulf spill (human death and environmental damage).................

And you are willing to let this company continue because a few people lose their jobs? You are an example of why we have been pwnd by large industry. The power of boycott is the ONLY means left to consumers to get rid of dangerous companies. Think how much better the planet would be if we tanked Monsanto. Ya know what - people would get more jobs if it tanked -- but where the hell are you going to get a new planet that doesn't have all the environmental toxins and damage they created?

We either use our powers and straighten this world out now or you aren't going to HAVE a planet to poopy all over about trivial little things like "spend months to find a new job".

Seems to me this would be the perfect time to assert our authority - it would get some industries that need to be built up and and going and get rid of those who have decided they can do anything they want to us and the planet. Might as well do it now while everyone is tanked so we can get our act together in the right way to move forward again.

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Paul Clare

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Too bad the damage they do isn't a matter of whole months to clean up. What these guys do we won't see the complete "cure" for happen even in our lifetimes.

I know times are hard - I'm not having a good time myself right now -- but I'm not that pigheaded to think that my employment depends on one stinking company that is happens to be the equivalent of ecological terrorist. Every time a company goes under some people need to find new jobs - that is no reason whatsoever to sell out our entire planet to a company who is nothing more than a serial killer. In fact -- "If they close I have to find a new job" is just plain psychotic thinking when we are dealing with ruin on the scale that these guys have been dishing it out -- over and over and over again. Most people would expect to go to jail for this kind of misconduct -- and with this company people are whining to just let them off the hook. Grreeeaaaaaaaat.

And - if you think for one minute that YOU and I aren't going to be paying part of this bill, you haven't been watching current events for the last damned decade.

Right now this company wants to drill in Alaska again.
Put it together - Valdez spill, Alaska spill (environmental damage and sales betrayal), Mexico explosion (human deaths and environmental damage), Texas explosion (human death and environmental), Gulf spill (human death and environmental damage).................

And you are willing to let this company continue because a few people lose their jobs? You are an example of why we have been pwnd by large industry. The power of boycott is the ONLY means left to consumers to get rid of dangerous companies. Think how much better the planet would be if we tanked Monsanto. Ya know what - people would get more jobs if it tanked -- but where the hell are you going to get a new planet that doesn't have all the environmental toxins and damage they created?

We either use our powers and straighten this world out now or you aren't going to HAVE a planet to poopy all over about trivial little things like "spend months to find a new job".

Seems to me this would be the perfect time to assert our authority - it would get some industries that need to be built up and and going and get rid of those who have decided they can do anything they want to us and the planet. Might as well do it now while everyone is tanked so we can get our act together in the right way to move forward again.

Whoa, slow down there Sally. Seems to me like you're pretty upset by this and I hear you. I agree that this company should pay for what they've done, but you need to understand that if the government just kills off this company, thousands, not a few jobs will be lost. Why do you think that the government bailed out GM and Chrysler? If they hadn't it would have sent this country into an even deeper depression then what it was from the housing market collapse. The government isn't meant to have the power to just kill off entire companies because they made a screw up. And it's really not fair to call BP an "ecological terrorist". You really think that they meant to waste billions in productivity and fines? Come on lady..

The problem with this whole situation is that everyone is fighting over who's fault it is when the government should just address plugging the leak (which it hasn't), then deal with the crimes later. I really think, as of right now, that getting a few people to boycott a $236 billion-dollar company won't actually do the damage you're looking for. I stand by what I've said: it's only going to hurt the American small-business owner.

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thunderbird 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Clare

<snip> And it's really not fair to call BP an "ecological terrorist". You really think that they meant to waste billions in productivity and fines?

Whether or not they meant to kill the Gulf of Mexico via massive and unprecedented pollution, that is what they did.
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ThomM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Clare

Whoa, slow down there Sally. Seems to me like you're pretty upset by this and I hear you. I agree that this company should pay for what they've done, but you need to understand that if the government just kills off this company, thousands, not a few jobs will be lost. Why do you think that the government bailed out GM and Chrysler? If they hadn't it would have sent this country into an even deeper depression then what it was from the housing market collapse. The government isn't meant to have the power to just kill off entire companies because they made a screw up. And it's really not fair to call BP an "ecological terrorist". You really think that they meant to waste billions in productivity and fines? Come on lady..

The problem with this whole situation is that everyone is fighting over who's fault it is when the government should just address plugging the leak (which it hasn't), then deal with the crimes later. I really think, as of right now, that getting a few people to boycott a $236 billion-dollar company won't actually do the damage you're looking for. I stand by what I've said: it's only going to hurt the American small-business owner.

First no one here is saying the government should shut down BP, it's the people in this country that are trying to do that. As for the screw up, if this was their first and only it would be a different story, but this is just the last in a long line of screw ups for them.
This is a company that has no regard for the environment.
The longer we allow them to operate and destroy the environment the shorter the time we have left on earth.
Using the excuse that it will hurt small businesses is pretty lame when you consider the hurt that the gulf and the animals that live there are going through.
Bottom line is if a company like BP isn't capable or willing to operate safely they shouldn't be allowed to operate at all. If you tied your horse to a company like BP, then sorry about your luck.

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HeySal

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Clare

Whoa, slow down there Sally. Seems to me like you're pretty upset by this and I hear you. I agree that this company should pay for what they've done, but you need to understand that if the government just kills off this company, thousands, not a few jobs will be lost. Why do you think that the government bailed out GM and Chrysler? If they hadn't it would have sent this country into an even deeper depression then what it was from the housing market collapse. The government isn't meant to have the power to just kill off entire companies because they made a screw up. And it's really not fair to call BP an "ecological terrorist". You really think that they meant to waste billions in productivity and fines? Come on lady..

The problem with this whole situation is that everyone is fighting over who's fault it is when the government should just address plugging the leak (which it hasn't), then deal with the crimes later. I really think, as of right now, that getting a few people to boycott a $236 billion-dollar company won't actually do the damage you're looking for. I stand by what I've said: it's only going to hurt the American small-business owner.

We're already tanking, Paul. There is not a better time in the world to shut down the killer corps. Frankly - we are at almost 7 bil population, too. If we don't stop the ecological nightmares right now, jobs are going to be a moot point like you would not believe in the very near future. I'm not even going into the years of research I've put into that one. So we kill BP - the gov CAN'T kill them -- it's up to the people and they need to figure it out fast. Ya know what happens if we kill BP right now? Another company takes over their load. Figure that one out -- another company will come in and take over and all those jobs will be there but people will be working for a company that won't kill them and won't kill any more resources that we have no bats chance in hell to live without.

You bet I'm disturbed. There's no reason in hell other than drinking sodium/silica fluoridated water that anyone should NOT be extremely outraged and ready to take action this time. It should have been done the last explosion they were responsible for -or the one before that. There wasn't a job shortage then - but now we have some real heavy duty problems and still have a killer corp on our hands -- all because some people will be out of work for a few months. Great. People will lose jobs if Monsanto goes under, too - would you ever say that they don't need to be stopped? Read what they've done to farmers, food prices, food itself, environment, food freedoms -- and then tell me they should still be given some slack because they employ a few people.

As far as what's done on purpose or not -- if you violate codes and know ahead of time that things are going bad but don't stop and make sure they are done right........that's just close enough to "on purpose" that it should make your skin crawl.

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Paul Clare

16 years ago

NO! I pray that none of you boycott BP. While yes they handled the Gulf situation atrociously, its true that most of the BP stations are owned by americans who work them to make their living. Boycotting would only hurt the economy.

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

It wouldn't/doesn't hurt the economy. People are still going to drive their cars, they will just buy gas from someone else. The gas station owners can change who they buy gas from in many situations.

Originally Posted by Paul Clare

NO! I pray that none of you boycott BP. While yes they handled the Gulf situation atrociously, its true that most of the BP stations are owned by americans who work them to make their living. Boycotting would only hurt the economy.

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Paul Clare

16 years ago

Sure it does. If people start boycotting BP stations owned by americans, how are these people going to make an adequate living? Sure they can switch, but that process takes months and I would assume isn't very cheap.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

BP is the modern descendant of the British East India Company.

TL

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ryjo

16 years ago

Originally Posted by AffiliateCashPile

Since the oil spill started I find that I now only pump gas at gas station that don't have the BP brand/logo anywhere. I'm sure all these oil companies are tied together somehow, but it feels good knowing that I'm not giving that company any money.

I'm just wondering if any warriors are boycotting them?

No....you just hurt the gas station owner....BP is probably just selling under other white labels...

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garyv

16 years ago

When I managed a gas station for a few years, I quickly found out that in most areas, all of the gas stations get their gas from the same source. They may arrive in different trucks, but those trucks all get their gas from the same local distribution point. The only thing that makes them different is the different additives that each company will put into the gas on the way to the station. But all of the gas comes from the same point.

So unless a BP owner has some kind of written contract, it wouldn't be that hard to change brands. And I'm sure that most contracts would be voided by the recent events.

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dharma2u

16 years ago

i had not relly thought about it, but i think it is a good idea!

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CreativeOnline3

16 years ago

I fully agreed with them who boycott them. It's right answer for them. I angry with them because of their...

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Stevea326

16 years ago

I try to avoid pumping gas there when I can. There was only one instance I can remember where I drove an extra little bit to avoid going to BP. Hopefully others are doing something similar.

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The 13th Warrior 16 years ago

Boycott would work if unified, but they never will be.

Its like Union workers who claim to be union, but will cross their own picket lines so they won't miss a paycheck.

Most people will simply not do without things they are comfortable with no matter what the cost to anyone, but everyone "talks" a good game.

No ones giving up their Costco card or pass up a sale for a big screen or something for pennies on the dollar.

By folks verifying factually all companies that are truly American and has good business practices and labor practices and who invest their money in American supplies and everything American, we would be rewarding companies, creating jobs while simultaneously we could shut down Trillion dollar corporations overnight.

And since some petroleum products are used in food, god no, no one's gonna give up that cheap, great tasting , petroleum made grub.

This is not going to happen, so you are better putting a tooth under your pillow hoping the toothfairy will come and reward you.

But since doing something to simply make you feel good as oppose to prescription drugs or killing a bottle of Jack Daniels in one sitting to feel good, go for it.

The 13th Warrior
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- TimPhelan 16 years ago
  
  It's already happening. People are boycotting BP stations and the owners of these stations are switching to other brands. Will this put BP out of business? No, but it will hurt the BP brand and that will make the boycot effective. Eventually what I think will happen to this company is it will be so hurt by this experience that it will be in their best interest to be bought out by another company. In fact, I believe there are some people in the government encouraging that now.
  
  Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior
  
  This is not going to happen,
  
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HeySal

16 years ago

The real joke is thinking that BP shouldn't be held responsible and people not only accept, but defend this BS. BP is the new BS.

Kurt - it's called indoctrination and it has worked, apparently.
When I was a kid you boycotted. Period. If a company got crappy, you didn't work for them, you didn't buy from them. They were driven under. I left a few jobs on principles that they shouldn't have been in operation. Others wanted to but whined and complained about having to find a new job. Well now we have unstoppable killers for corporations and very few are willing to do anything but whine that they aren't that bad, or things will be rough for a few minutes if we put them down. Crap -we are completely pwnd, and somehow people think that things will get better on their own. It's going to be awhile, but in the not so long future people will wake the hell up and realize what they have allowed to go on. Killing everything in the gulf coast doesn't seem to be big enough to convince them. Well, pretty soon BP is going back to Alaska and they will probably cause more of the problems they have been historically causing. I wonder how much extinction and poisoning people will succumb to before they realize that we need to stop this company NOW.

There are still people who think if BP lives, we won't have to pay for the spill either. Glad I'm not on THEIR municipal water systems.

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The 13th Warrior

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Killing everything in the gulf coast doesn't seem to be big enough to convince them. Well, pretty soon BP is going back to Alaska and they will probably cause more of the problems they have been historically causing. I wonder how much extinction and poisoning people will succumb to before they realize that we need to stop this company NOW.

Yup.

How long? What's it going to take?

Until the common citizen is living on a 3rd world level, but maybe, not even then, living a 4th world is probably the trick for sure.

The 13th Warrior

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Karen Blundell 16 years ago

bring on the electric cars!

seriously though, I'd be boycotting them too. The problem we have here in Canada is that many people are apathetic. If it doesn't directly affect them, they'll ignore the situation like it doesn't exist.

That's why from what I've seen boycotting doesn't work that well. There's just not enough people who are willing to act. They sure can talk, though :rolleyes:
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Kay King

16 years ago

The real joke is thinking that BP shouldn't be held responsible and people not only accept, but defend this BS. BP is the new BS.

Agreed....but if holding BP responsible is as far as it goes, it will just happen again in another area with a different oil company or coal company or chemical plant or....

Once BP HAS BEEN held responsible (and increasingly now, experts are saying BP may not survive this or at least not in it's current big oil form)....

We need to know how any company can have hundreds of violations - and remain in business. We need to know what the point is of having rules if they are not enforced - it seems the only purpose of the rules is to hire govt people to go around writing up violations and no one does anything about it.

We need to know how many rigs in our waters were given the same blanket pass from following EPA requirements- who was supposed to be overseeing them - who decided to write the govt paper statings "no significant risk to wildlife or people" that came FROM MMS and was copied by oil companies.

IN other words - we need to know where the train started going off the track. We know where it landed....but this is a long trail and it needs to be followed and corrected with more than "we don't want this to happen again".

It should not have happened once. And it does keep happening again - just this time it's so bad the coverups aren't working for any of those involved.

kay

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Agreed....but if holding BP responsible is as far as it goes, it will just happen again in another area with a different oil company or coal company or chemical plant or....

kay

I've started 2-3 threads making suggestions about what we should do next, such as the electric car threads, but they don't receive nearly the attention of the negative threads that contain 99% bitching.

Bill Mahr made a good point: Humans don't change for impending catastrophe, we just adapt to it. So in 50 years we'll have cooking shows on TV giving cockroach and jellyfish recipes, because that's all we'll have to eat in 50 years and we'd rather eat jellyfish and roaches than change.

But like I said here before, I don't have kids and even the worst case scenarios show there's still enough stuff for me in my lifetime. If people with kids aren't concerned, I'm really struggling to see why I should care?

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zaner67

16 years ago

I only buy BP. I hope they survive this terrible event so they can pay to clean it up.
CR

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thunderbird

16 years ago

Since I don't drive, I pretty much boycott them all, in practice.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Kurt,

Isn't that always the case. Man gives his dog a nice steak dinner, and it isn't news. Man beats dog, and it gets press.

BTW guys, They are NOW claiming there is a link between the release of the libian lockerby bomber and BP! BP supposedly has a deal that is upwards of $700Mil. The "doctor" ADMITS that he LIED! He didn't think the bomber would die in 3 months, but could live another 20+ years. He is STILL alive. So they are saying that people inn the gulf will be paid with blood money.

They shouldn't show terrorists compassion anyway! The idea is to PUNISH the person, PROTECT society from him/her, and DISSUADE others from thinking about doing the same thing. Bring compassion into the thing, and things start to unravel!

steve

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mattbf

16 years ago

I don't really notice any less customers going to BP, theres one right near me

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Anyone boycotting BP?

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