Mel Gibson tapes

Paul Clare

16 years ago

Yeah.. Mel Gibson's an idiot. She'll get a nice divorce settlement though so she can't be that mad about it.

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cutequotes 16 years ago

i`m not much a fan of him
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

I guess the rage he displayed with his acting is also a serious part of his mental makeup.

Remember the rage he displayed in The Patriot when he went postal on that British soldier with his hatchet??

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ThomM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I guess the rage he displayed with his acting is also a serious part of his mental makeup.

Remember the rage he displayed in The Patriot when he went postal on that British soldier with his hatchet??

Remember the rage he displayed when he was arrested for DUI?

YouTube - Mel Gibson Hates Jews DUI

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HeySal

16 years ago

Mel was a complete outcast for a lot of his life - he was burned and disfigured badly in his youth and for some reason his parents just dropped him off. I can't remember if they died or just ditched the malformed little guy. A priest took him in and finally got the funds to turn him into the gorgeous figure we see today -- got to be a lot of heavy baggage in that mix. The sad part is that I think he wants very much to be a good person. I feel very sorry for that man.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Heysal,

Wikipedia seems to indicate that Mel Gibson did NOT suffer such a hardship.

It is HARD to believe this is mel. The cadence and tone are so different, given the reaction, and he seems too detached. And he speaks of "spiritual commonground" while using such a foul language, yelling, etc....

Even the breathing sounds fake.

If these tapes ARE him as represented, it is UNREAL. He had SO much going for him. He could literally write his own ticket. And I like payback, ransom, and the patriot. And he cheapens all that through this. Apparently, his talent agency recently dropped him!

This just in: Mel Gibson dropped by his talent agency
Mel Gibson has been dropped by his talent agency. A rep for the William Morris Endeavor agency confirmed to the L.A. Times that it is no longer working with the Oscar winner, whose personal life has gone up in flames with tapes of a profane, ethnic-slur-laced rant against his ex-girlfriend leaked to RadarOnline.com. Sources told the Times, though, that the agency's bad feelings go back to Gibson's last profane, ethnic-slur-laced rant, during his 2006 drunk-driving arrest -- but that they kept him out of respect to longtime agent Ed Limato, until Limato's death last week.

Steve

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HeySal 16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Heysal,

Wikipedia seems to indicate that Mel Gibson did NOT suffer such a hardship.

Steve

Well he better have or I won't feel bad for him any more.

I ran into Mel once out in Columbia or Columbus, or something(don't remember exactly - it was just W. of Billings), Montana in his favorite bar (it's the one with all the taxidermied animals all over - the two headed goat is famous in that area of the world.

I was told not to mention his movies or he'd leave (doesn't like to talk about work). So I didn't. Actually, I didn't approach him at all. Didn't know what to say to him so I just didn't go over. But I had Munchie in the car and when I left the bar I took Munch out to walk around a bit. I poured him a drink when we got back to the car so was just leaning on the rig while Munch was drinking. Mel came out (kinda blitzed) and came over and said "Oh that is one beautiful dog, what's his name". He started to come over and Munch picked his head up from the bowl and squared off and gave a nice deep growl - stopped Mel in his tracks. Anyhow - I just said thanks, this is Munchie. And he said "seems like a protective guy you have, he really is beautiful". Then he left. I didn't have to tell him to stay back....Munchie hated drunk men but Mel seemed like enough of a country boy to know not to approach a dog that was bigger than the owner when it's growling, LOL.

End of story. The whole time, I thought I was talking to a poor disowned and disfigured waif that had been saved by the kindness of a priest........and that made sense to me, too because from what I've seen and heard, the guy is a complete ass, but he's very deeply religious. Go figure.
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- Alan Petersen 16 years ago
  
  Hurray for Hollyweird. I've had a couple friends gone through nasty divorces and it gets ugly.
  
  This reminded me of the Alec Baldwin tape where he called his young daughter a rude little pig and how he was going to fly to where she was to "straighten her out".
  
  So nothing really surprises me coming from Hollyweird. If he did hit her, I hope they press charges and I like Mel Gibson (as an actor and director).
  
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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Really? You have heard people worse than this guy? Glad I don't get out to wherever you get out to.

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If that's the worst you've ever seen or heard, you don't get out much.

The man is a fine actor and a first-rate director. I don't much care what else he does as long as it's not to me.

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Starring_Emma 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Really? You have heard people worse than this guy? Glad I don't get out to wherever you get out to.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking... If Mel is seen taking notes from O. J. Simpson I think that lady better buy a gun.
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seasoned

16 years ago

One interesting thing about this tape is that he said he could come over, and he didn't.

BTW some states, apparently this one included, DON'T allow one party tapes to be admissible. SO, they can't really use these tapes.

Steve

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Steven Wagenheim 16 years ago

Have you listened to some of these tapes? They've been playing them on
WRXP 101.9 where I live and I gotta tell you, he sounds like a lunatic.

Who'd a thunk it? :confused:
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seasoned

16 years ago

Well whoopie goldberg seems to be one of those that always cries RACISM, etc... and SURPRISINGLY, she apparently has gone on record saying that she had him over with her kids, etc... and he is NOT a racist. She put it all up to booze. Whoopi Goldberg Defends Mel Gibson: 'I Know He's Not Racist' | Entertainment/Music | Peacefmonline.com

Of course, she isn't known for being jewish. Did mel say anything against blacks? ALSO, he WAS being detained, etc... by someone who, as I recall, seemed jewish. So he had a LOT of triggers for such antisemetic statements. That doesn't make them true, or more proper, but it DOES explain why it happened and how it might not represent his REAL views.

BTW one reporter said that a product mel is taking, and says it is for Low-T, is REALLY for dementia and depression. If true, Mel is reassessing things based on CURRENT experience, and what he BELIEVES he experienced before, which wouldn't be that great. AGAIN, it doesn't make it good, etc.... but it DOES explain how he may suddenly be doing all this even though he originally was NOT like that.

As I said here before about spongiform encephalapathy, alzheimers, etc... I think companies in this world don't care about dementia, and it seems to be ALL too popular. And I really don't know WHAT to do with the people.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Yes, Mr. Gibson has recently made statements about blacks and Hispanics and is now being called an equal opportunity offender.

So that's 3 groups he's publicly offended including Jews.

Can a person have a few seemingly racist rants/statements and not be a racist???

In the world of planet Earth 2010... I say yes.

Emotions can take over etc., etc., etc.,

But where do you draw the line???

I think I heard him say on the recording that his movie career is over.

Dude seems to be really, really angry.

TL

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whateverpedia 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I think I heard him say on the recording that his movie career is over.TL

It probably is. Apparently he's just been dropped by his agents.

Slightly off topic, but Russell Crowe had "issues" a few years back as well.

There must be something about being trained at NIDA that brings out the worst in talented people.
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seasoned

16 years ago

I have to say, the tapes sounded LITERALLY like a CARTOON! BTW I think his career MIGHT be over. I say MIGHT ONLY because he STILL might be a draw, and it is a FACT that many big stars are FAR worse than they appear. I mean if you don't cut them a LOT of slack, 80% of hollywood would be UNEMPLOYED!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I have to say, the tapes sounded LITERALLY like a CARTOON! BTW I think his career MIGHT be over. I say MIGHT ONLY because he STILL might be a draw, and it is a FACT that many big stars are FAR worse than they appear. I mean if you don't cut them a LOT of slack, 80% of hollywood would be UNEMPLOYED!

Steve

Yeh, but Mel's stuff is extra and it's become public.

I don't know how ladies, blacks, jews and hispanics can be big fans of his now.

I remember Rob Lowe got in trouble for messing with an underage girl.

He laid low (no pun intended) for a few years, returned but never had a leading man role again - not that I can remember.

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ThomM 16 years ago

I don't know how ladies, blacks, jews and hispanics can be big fans of his now.

Don't forget a whole bunch of white folks who don't support his actions or views.
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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Yeh, but Mel's stuff is extra and it's become public.

I don't know how ladies, blacks, jews and hispanics can be big fans of his now.

I remember Rob Lowe got in trouble for messing with an underage girl.

He laid low (no pun intended) for a few years, returned but never had a leading man role again - not that I can remember.

HEY, he makes WHITES look bad also, and whites DON'T generally want to even SLIGHTLY MISTREAT others, let alone anything worse. And a husband and wife should take joy in keeping one another HAPPY!

And I certainly do NOT condone his actions. I try to never even use cuss words. NEVER! If I say @#$%^&* it is NOT to hide a cuss word, but I don't even do THAT very much.

I was just playing devil's advocate, and his voice sounds SO much like a cartoon that I STILL wonder if it is REAL. In the other cases I heard, even the SOUND alone didn't sound so cartoonish.

Steve

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I don't know how ladies, blacks, jews and hispanics can be big fans of his now.

Refusal to believe that the media tell us the truth.

We believe that the media lie whenever it suits them, have no respect or regard for anyone, and will happily drag anyone down into the mud just so they can charge more for ad space.

Wait, that's true, innit?

I remember Rob Lowe got in trouble for messing with an underage girl.

He laid low (no pun intended) for a few years, returned but never had a leading man role again - not that I can remember.

One of these days, I am going to go to Hollywood and make a movie in which every single role is filled by the subject of a sex scandal.

And it will make so much money, it will be sickening. I mean, think of the cast.

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garyv

16 years ago

This is what alcohol will do to some people. It turns them into Jekyll and Hyde. I have a brother that is the same way. He's an incredibly nice and giving person when he's sober. But when he's drunk he turns into a monster.

There's still no excuse for that behavior. If you're an angry drunk, then DON'T DRINK! You'll just ruin your life and make those around you miserable.

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HeySal

16 years ago

Mel tried to put a handle on his drinking years ago. Maybe he didn't succeed too well - and if he's on some sort of pharmaceutical, well...those can put you onto edges you just wouldn't walk out onto on your own.

As far as racial..........lots of people are severely racial. They just know that we are no longer allowed to be honest about how we feel about anyone. Mel doesn't seem to "get it" yet. Either that or he might just be one of those people who says things when they are angry just to get a rise out of other people....um...which he seemed to manage well enough this time.

Another consideration is that he's done some very controversial movies and there are people who want him out of the business real bad so you can never tell how they will set someone up. Did we ever get the full view of what set him off? Does this recording cover the WHOLE conversation or is it actually pulled out of context? I didn't catch whether maybe something that happened or was said just before the tape set him off in his tizzy. In Hollywood they know how to build the correct illusions for you.

Another thing that happens in Hollywood are very outrageous events that precede some film or other. Hmmmm --- I'll be watching for either another shocker from Mel or one of the other controversial directors -- or even maybe "The Mel Gibson Story". Maybe he's going to retire and live on the funds that one will get him.

Just hard to say what's going on -- we're dealing with a low life Main Stream Media -- and we're dealing with story tellers (Hollywood).

So..........I don't think we've heard the end of it, all in all.

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seasoned

16 years ago

HEYSAL,

You're right about THAT. Based on how she acted, and what he said, she probably DID put him through the wringer. Couple that with his being very aggressive and/or depressed and/or drinking and/or drugs, and THIS is what you end up with.

As for the phone call, she almost certainly called him, and started the conversation with the intent of taping it. She may EVEN have started pushing his buttons JUST as she started taping.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

HEYSAL,

You're right about THAT. Based on how she acted, and what he said, she probably DID put him through the wringer. Couple that with his being very aggressive and/or depressed and/or drinking and/or drugs, and THIS is what you end up with.

As for the phone call, she almost certainly called him, and started the conversation with the intent of taping it. She may EVEN have started pushing his buttons JUST as she started taping.

Steve

Is there any good reason to hit a woman??

I think he also talked about going upside her head with a baseball bat.

If all that's true, ( the setup etc. )...

...Mr. G. should not have fallen for it.

( easy for me to say )

He was just getting his career back on track after a 3-5 years of laying low due to his original outburst.

His release in Jan 2010 of "Edge of Darkness" cost about 80 million to produce and has brought in about 80 million total worldwide - so I guess it's going to make money.

Loose lips sink ships.

I hear he has another movie set to be released later on this year.

I wonder how it will do?

In any event - he's not poor by a long shot.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Is there any good reason to hit a woman??

I think he also talked about going upside her head with a baseball bat.

If all that's true, ( the setup etc. )...

...Mr. G. should not have fallen for it.

( easy for me to say )

He was just getting his career back on track after a 3-5 years of laying low due to his original outburst.

His release in Jan 2010 of "Edge of Darkness" cost about 80 million to produce and has brought in about 80 million total worldwide - so I guess it's going to make money.

Loose lips sink ships.

I hear he has another movie set to be released later on this year.

I wonder how it will do?

In any event - he's not poor by a long shot.

I simply said WHY he would act like this IF he did, etc... I thought I made it clear something else was at play, extreme aggressive behaviour, drugs, alcohol, etc....

And NO, he isn't poor financially. I never said he was.

Steve

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TimPhelan 16 years ago

Not in my book. Mel admitted in the tape to hitting her while she held the infant baby, breaking his ex girlfriends tooth in the process. He also threatened to plant her in the rose garden and said he was very capable of doing something like that.

It's weird how the victim can be blamed for things. Even in this tape Mel plays that game when he talks how she dresses like a whore and would deserve it if a pack of ______ raped her.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Is there any good reason to hit a woman??

I think he also talked about going upside her head with a baseball bat.
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HeySal

16 years ago

Is there any good reason to hit a woman??

I think he also talked about going upside her head with a baseball bat.

Sure am glad that nobody taped any of the conversations my ex and I had when we were splitting up. Those could have been doctored to make either of us look actually homicidal. One argument we got into when he came over just after the breakup was overheard by my mechanic who was in the driveway and he actually called the police thinking that my ex was going to start wailing on me physically -- truth be told, I'd have been more likely to tank his butt. Funny too - I'd have been more likely to be able to tank him than visa-versa. I'm trained - he was just big.

Would he have actually ever hit me? Maybe if he hadn't known I could take him down with much pleasure and no problems if he'd tried.........but the fact remains that someone thought he was physically abusive just by hearing the fight. Had I hollered at the right time, I probably could have had him put in jail without anyone actually seeing a blow - I could have made them think it happened with not one damned problem.

If that woman went far enough to try to destroy him, he may have taken a swing at her. It might not be right to just go around hitting each other, but how much torture can you apply to a person before they snap? Just from hearing that tape, I'm imagining that this woman has been dishing out more than he can take for quite some time now. It doesn't sound even a hair as one sided as the press tried to portray it. I'm thinking this wasn't "Mel is a bad guy". I'm thinking this whole damned thing was "Take him down rough".

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Thomas 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Is there any good reason to hit a woman??

Ordinarily, I'd say no but, then again, if a woman ran screaming at you, with glazed-over eyes and blood-soaked clothes, while swiping at you with a 10-inch blade drenched in fresh blood, I'd imagine most people would forgive a man for lashing out

Originally Posted by HeySal

Funny too - I'd have been more likely to be able to tank him than visa-versa. I'm trained - he was just big.

Sounds familiar. Despite being half my size, I'm 101% certain that my better-half could easily knock me off my feet, gut me like a fish before I hit the ground, and probably still make it look like an accident. Needless to say, I'm always very nice to her...
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KenThompson

16 years ago

Mel was worth close 1 billion prior to his divorce. Unfortunately, he
didn't have any kind of a prenup. So his wife may have received
half of his wealth. I don't know what the final terms were.

This is interesting...

Mel Gibson to Pay Largest Divorce Settlement in History? - Mel Gibson

Also, in late June 2010, Mel filed a restraining order against this woman, in the audio. I
read the order was sealed. This woman, Oksana, said she couldn't talk about it, but all
would find out soon.

Mel really should stick to movies. Don't know if she caused the marital break-up, and
it's no one's business anyway.

Movies, Mel... think movies.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Since you met Mel, I'm tempted to say that you've been starstruck Sal.

Is this a setup???

Mel Gibson Caught Slapping Oksana While She Holds Infant - Mel Gibson

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HeySal

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Since you met Mel, I'm tempted to say that you've been starstruck Sal.

Is this a setup???

Mel Gibson Caught Slapping Oksana While She Holds Infant - Mel Gibson

Hell - it's not like I did the guy - I only spoke to him very briefly. He was drunk, dude - he wouldn't remember me from Adam.

What I'm saying is we don't know anything about his side of the issue.

When I was young and adorable in my early 20's I ran with the most desirable women in my town. The rich guys loved us. I saw the exact lengths some women will go through to get money from guys they cared not two whits about -- including marriage then divorce (all preplanned) , blackmail, incrimination. You wouldn't believe how vicious some women can be to get what they want.

I want to hear if this was out and out abuse or if she was just working on destroying him in any way possible. If it is correct he had a restraining order, she was working hard on getting the bucks and deserved a punch in the mouth if she approached him. It wasn't legally the smartest move a man has ever made - but at that point I can just imagine what other crap she has pulled on him. She's lucky he didn't shoot her if that is the case.

There's a big difference between a guy just wailing on women and one striking one who is doing everything in her power to destroy him.

I'm not saying that I defend his action, I'm just saying that I haven't heard his side of the story. If he was just drunk or just a guy that hits as a means to get his own way - let him build his own coffin. If she has worked him in some of the ways I've seen women work a guy for their cash........stand her in front of a judge and let him take a few more swings.

I don't believe that there are never circumstances in which the person taking the swing is not excusable or even justified - even if the target is female. I want to know if this is one of these circumstances before I decide the guy is disgusting or not.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Hell - it's not like I did the guy - I only spoke to him very briefly. He was drunk, dude - he wouldn't remember me from Adam.

What I'm saying is we don't know anything about his side of the issue.

When I was young and adorable in my early 20's I ran with the most desirable women in my town. The rich guys loved us. I saw the exact lengths some women will go through to get money from guys they cared not two whits about -- including marriage then divorce (all preplanned) , blackmail, incrimination. You wouldn't believe how vicious some women can be to get what they want.

I want to hear if this was out and out abuse or if she was just working on destroying him in any way possible. If it is correct he had a restraining order, she was working hard on getting the bucks and deserved a punch in the mouth if she approached him. It wasn't legally the smartest move a man has ever made - but at that point I can just imagine what other crap she has pulled on him. She's lucky he didn't shoot her if that is the case.

There's a big difference between a guy just wailing on women and one striking one who is doing everything in her power to destroy him.

I'm not saying that I defend his action, I'm just saying that I haven't heard his side of the story. If he was just drunk or just a guy that hits as a means to get his own way - let him build his own coffin. If she has worked him in some of the ways I've seen women work a guy for their cash........stand her in front of a judge and let him take a few more swings.

I don't believe that there are never circumstances in which the person taking the swing is not excusable or even justified - even if the target is female. I want to know if this is one of these circumstances before I decide the guy is disgusting or not.

An example of how bad deception can get:

Love Stinks (1999)

FUNNY MOVIE, BTW! INTERESTING UNEXPECTED plot twist!

Steve

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KenThompson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

including marriage then divorce (all preplanned) , blackmail, incrimination. You wouldn't believe how vicious some women can be to get what they want.

This never ceases to blow me away. It's not like I was born yesterday, but I
can't seem to wrap my head around people who do things like that. Here's a
similar story...

Some years ago, I was taking private instruction in a martial art. I studied
different forms for a long time. So of course since it was private, we naturally
got to know each other more than normally would be the case such as in a
class setting.

I mentioned that I was communicating with a woman from a certain Asian
country. This instructor was married to a woman from the same country. But
when I said that his eyes kind of lit up. Then he got very serious and told me to
sit down.

He then told me that his wife told him many stories about women from that
country and what they do. He said very many of them are married, but their
families want to leave. So they meet guys from other countries and marry them.
Then after x number of years they divorce them, and then these women bring
their husbands and children to the country and they live happily ever after.

It's all planned. That's just so insane, and I cannot comprehend it. Just can't.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

I was in the Navy and served over seas. We saw a LOT of that. In fact, the Navy constantly held "classes" to make the sailors aware of this type of thing. And of course, I have seen it many times first hand.

Once I was actually offered $30,000 to get married (at least they were up front about the reasons...). I was told it would last XXX amount of time, then a divorce.

Now, that never interested me, but in telling this to some friends, one told me that they knew people who did this and in the divorce, they end up keeping all the money anyway

Pretty neat scam...

Originally Posted by KenThompson

This never ceases to blow me away. It's not like I was born yesterday, but I
can't seem to wrap my head around people who do things like that. Here's a
similar story...

Some years ago, I was taking private instruction in a martial art. I studied
different forms for a long time. So of course since it was private, we naturally
got to know each other more than normally would be the case such as in a
class setting.

I mentioned that I was communicating with a woman from a certain Asian
country. This instructor was married to a woman from the same country. But
when I said that his eyes kind of lit up. Then he got very serious and told me to
sit down.

He then told me that his wife told him many stories about women from that
country and what they do. He said very many of them are married, but their
families want to leave. So they meet guys from other countries and marry them.
Then after x number of years they divorce them, and then these women bring
their husbands and children to the country and they live happily ever after.

It's all planned. That's just so insane, and I cannot comprehend it. Just can't.

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KenThompson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

I was in the Navy and served over seas. We saw a LOT of that. In fact, the Navy constantly held "classes" to make the sailors aware of this type of thing. And of course, I have seen it many times first hand.

Once I was actually offered $30,000 to get married (at least they were up front about the reasons...). I was told it would last XXX amount of time, then a divorce.

Now, that never interested me, but in telling this to some friends, one told me that they knew people who did this and in the divorce, they end up keeping all the money anyway

Pretty neat scam...

I was made a similar offer by a different martial arts instructor quite some
time ago. Again, private lessons - the only way to go if you can afford it,
and after awhile things begin to loosen up a little. I eventually stopped
lessons with this guy because I had too many suspicions about things.

I was also told by a Russian guy about certain possibilities within the Russian
community in Philadelphia. Same thing, monthly stipend - so to speak, for
a certain period of time and then a divorce.

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

I was made a similar offer by a different martial arts instructor quite some
time ago. Again, private lessons - the only way to go if you can afford it,
and after awhile things begin to loosen up a little. I eventually stopped
lessons with this guy because I had too many suspicions about things.

I was also told by a Russian guy about certain possibilities within the Russian
community in Philadelphia. Same thing, monthly stipend - so to speak, for
a certain period of time and then a divorce.

I think Ken is just softening us up for his next WSO: "Polygamy for Fun and Profit!".

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MikeAmbrosio 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I think Ken is just softening us up for his next WSO: "Polygamy for Fun and Profit!".

Hey Ken, I can collaborate on this with you if you'd like. We'll split the profits 57/92
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sloanjim

16 years ago

Why can't people outside the US listen to it?

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sloanjim

16 years ago

£200M or about $300M in the UK papers this morning... Poor Mel he's only doen to his last $700M. How wil lhe cope?

Mel was worth close 1 billion prior to his divorce. Unfortunately, he
didn't have any kind of a prenup. So his wife may have received
half of his wealth. I don't know what the final terms were.

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sloanjim

16 years ago

What's happening to him? Has he lost his marbles? Mid life crisis? He seems to going mad.

Anyhwre I can listen to the tapes? (UK)

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HorseStall

16 years ago

I wonder if its the alchohol or its the stardom. I look at what being a "star" has done to people like.... Brittney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Michael Jackson, Mel Gibson it has destroyed them :-(

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seasoned

16 years ago

Brittney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Michael Jackson don't count, since they GREW UP with this, and were exposed to a lot of WIERD things.

MEL was exposed to bad people, but should have fared better.

Steve

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mr2020

16 years ago

I remember watching Mel Gibson in an interview several years ago. Watching his eye patterns and non verbal cues, I think he is criminally insane. Really, I have a 20 plus year background in NLP (old school nlp, not the game playing seduction crap) and I worked as a cop, with advanced training in interview and interrogation.

If I interviewed him once, he'd be on my personal "nut job" list. It's a shame what he has become. I hope that one day he can let go of what he needs to let go of, and heal.

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by mr2020

I remember watching Mel Gibson in an interview several years ago. Watching his eye patterns and non verbal cues, I think he is criminally insane. Really, I have a 20 plus year background in NLP (old school nlp, not the game playing seduction crap) and I worked as a cop, with advanced training in interview and interrogation.

If I interviewed him once, he'd be on my personal "nut job" list. It's a shame what he has become. I hope that one day he can let go of what he needs to let go of, and heal.

I see a lot of similarities between Mel and OJ. I was a huge OJ fan and talking with a few friends that were also OJ fans, we agreed that something changed and he looked different when the murders took place. He has a distant look in his eyes he didn't have before. It's hard to explain, but he looks "hollow" to me and didn't before.

Both Mel and OJ had rough childhoods. I hear Mel's dad is a real flake and has said some very racist things and OJ said he was a "thug" growing up.

Then both got it together, over-came their childhoods and became huge stars...I believe Mel drank a lot over the years, and I've heard rumors from "friends of friends" that OJ was into coke and crank.

And IMO both Mel and OJ suffer from the long-term effects of drugs and alcohol. I think they just fried their brains and are reverting to the nature of their childhoods which is racism for Mel and violence for OJ.

Just my weird theory...

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Mel said he started drinking when he was 13. Supposedly he "used" to have 5 pints of beer for breakfast.

Originally Posted by Kurt

And IMO both Mel and OJ suffer from the long-term effects of drugs and alcohol. I think they just fried their brains and are reverting to the nature of their childhoods which is racism for Mel and violence for OJ.

Just my weird theory...

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garyv 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Mel said he started drinking when he was 13. Supposedly he "used" to have 5 pints of beer for breakfast.

Alcoholism is a terrible cycle to fall into. You drink to forget about your problems. And then you drinking causes more of them for you.
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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Mel said he started drinking when he was 13. Supposedly he "used" to have 5 pints of beer for breakfast.

Yeah, well so did I.

People (or Mel himself) can point to this as a "reason" for their behavior (what, 40 years later) but it's crap.

I came from a broken family too. Very poor, welfare, deadbeat dad, bad influences, gangs, drugs, sex, booze - all at a very young age.

One day I made a choice to grow up and not use all the crap in my past to determine my future.

I guess that doesn't work for everyone...

But when someone with Mel's level of success has all these problems, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. If he didn't make movies, it wouldn't be news.

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gareth

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Yeah, well so did I.

People (or Mel himself) can point to this as a "reason" for their behavior (what, 40 years later) but it's crap.

I came from a broken family too. Very poor, welfare, deadbeat dad, bad influences, gangs, drugs, sex, booze - all at a very young age.

One day I made a choice to grow up and not use all the crap in my past to determine my future.

I guess that doesn't work for everyone...

But when someone with Mel's level of success has all these problems, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. If he didn't make movies, it wouldn't be news.

So the shining hollywood golden boy is actually a rapist fag

surprise surprise

Mel Gibson is evil and strange end of story. Bailiff --> Whack his Pee Pee !!!

Slit his nut sack.

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John Atkins

16 years ago

It seems that you need to be a US citizen
to see it.

Can anyone give me another link?

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Don Brigante

16 years ago

Oksana just used Mel to get his money. So I do not blame him.

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jabraheadset 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Don Brigante

Oksana just used Mel to get his money. So I do not blame him.

I agree. That woman is just after his money, that's the very first reason she involved herself with him and bore his child. And based on the recordings, she intentionally agetitate the guy to say and do horrible things.
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seasoned

16 years ago

Larry king is talking about this, and bringing up my concerns. It will be interesting to see what they say!

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Tina Golden 16 years ago

First, no one has authenticated these tapes as of yet, that I've read anyway. There is no proof of who is on the tape and no proof that they haven't been creatively edited, either.

I don't know either way but it wouldn't be the first time that someone pulled a stunt to get sympathy - and a bigger settlement.

Tina
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Here's some material to work with...

The 10 Most Notorious Sex Scandals in Hollywood History | Sex & Relationships | AlterNet

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abednego

16 years ago

I thought I read a headline that the tapes were heavily altered?

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Has anyone heard the latest???

EXCLUSIVE AUDIO: Out Of Control Mel Gibson Says He'll Burn Down House After Demanding Sex

Excerpts...

"How dare you act like such a b**ch, when I've been so f**king nice?" Mel screams at his ex, Oksana Grigorieva, before raging at her for falling asleep before he could get a blow job in the jacuzzi.

"I let you sleep, I shouldn't have woken you up and said 'f*cking blow me! That was my goddamn mistake," Mel screams.

His panting and screaming gets more out of control from there.

"I deserve to be blown first! Before the f*cking Jacuzzi!

Ok, I'll burn the goddamn house up, but blow me first! How dare you!??!"

Is this really Mel???

You be the judge...

EXCLUSIVE AUDIO: Out Of Control Mel Gibson Says He'll Burn Down House After Demanding Sex | RadarOnline.com

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

It's Mel. His ex-wife has come out saying she was never hit or abused by Mel in their long marriage. She's heard the tapes. She would say "That isn't Mel" if it wasn't.

This is all leading up to a custody battle where Oksana is seeking full custody. Plus, a spokesman for Mel is saying she tried to extort money from him. However, Oksana makes a good case in one of the audios about how she wasn't after money. She had money before they met. She wasn't some big star, but she had a career:

"You made me moneyless." Oksana tells Mel. "I used to have hundred thousand dollars a year when you met me. You took me, you possessed me. Everything I am you own me, with my liver and my kidneys and my thoughts and my soul. Everything! My career, whatever it is. Pathetic career. Whatever it is, it's yours. You control me like marionette. I don't belong to myself, only to you. I can't do anything and I walk on eggshells always with you!

Mel's answer: "That's because you're a (expletive) using whore! Now, I own you."

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's Mel. His ex-wife has come out saying she was never hit or abused by Mel in their long marriage. She's heard the tapes. She would say "That isn't Mel" if it wasn't.

This is all leading up to a custody battle where Oksana is seeking full custody. Plus, a spokesman for Mel is saying she tried to extort money from him. However, Oksana makes a good case in one of the audios about how she wasn't after money. She had money before they met. She wasn't some big star, but she had a career:

OH, if ONLY that were a valid case! It ***ISN'T***! MANY RICH people steal, etc... Some got that way by doing so.

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Sure, rich people extort and steal also. That doesn't make what she said not valid or logical.

Originally Posted by seasoned

OH, if ONLY that were a valid case! It ***ISN'T***! MANY RICH people steal, etc... Some got that way by doing so.

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seasoned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Sure, rich people extort and steal also. That doesn't make what she said not valid or logical.

But it DOES mean she might be lying!
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HeySal

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Sure, rich people extort and steal also. That doesn't make what she said not valid or logical.

I think he's being framed. He's mad and his mouth might run, but I think she's worked him over from head to toe. Those tapes don't sound like random shouting -- they sound like guy who is backed into a corner and has had about all he can take. This bitch fits the MO of some of the women that used to come to the crisis center to get us to back them up when lying through their teeth. Ever had a woman try to put you in jail for rape just because you dumped her? It happens more frequently than you'd realize.

I think the tapes are Mel - and I think he's been pushed over the edge -- and I think she's manipulated this situation for her own damn selfish whims. I hope she messes up and gets caught and jailed for it.

The sad thing is - if he'd never gotten public attention for being stupid while drunk, she'd never been able to swing this one.

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Yeah, and he also threatened to kill her. Is that OK all of a sudden?

I thought you were for women who have been abused, threatened, intimidated etc.... Why the change of heart with this guy?

Originally Posted by HeySal

He's mad and his mouth might run,

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HeySal

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yeah, and he also threatened to kill her. Is that OK all of a sudden?

I thought you were for women who have been abused, threatened, intimidated etc.... Why the change of heart with this guy?

Tim - When I was splitting with my ex, I said that a couple of times, too - and as damned furious as I was, I wouldn't have killed him.

Think about it, Tim -- how the hell did these get on tape and out to the public? The first thing the FBI and local cops will tell someone in this situation is to be quiet about it - do not communicate with the perp - and the first thing a lawyer would say is keep your mouth shut because it could damage a case.

This crap is circulating because she is trying to ruin him. It sounds exactly what a certain man in my life tried to toss on me because he couldn't get me to give him a lot of stuff he wanted and didn't ever do anything to deserve.

I am NOT one to side with an abuser - I just honestly don't think he is as guilty as he is meant to sound. I want to hear the WHOLE conversation - beginning with the split up - and any discussions she had about what she wants from him, not just his angered ranting, which we know nothing about the cause of.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yeah, and he also threatened to kill her. Is that OK all of a sudden?

I thought you were for women who have been abused, threatened, intimidated etc.... Why the change of heart with this guy?

I doubt she is arguing that a person abusing women, etc... should be given any special treatment. I'm not EITHER! I see LOTS of cases where guys hit women that seem to be nice, etc... The men have histories of such aggression, etc... I think MAN, what a WASTE! The guy should be forced to give her the bulk of his money, and be locked up. But THEN, in other cases? Like Love Stinks, My name is earl(Earl and his "ex"), etc.... I'm surprised the man handles it so well. BTW I would, but I am really pretty passive. One bully in highschool, when approached by a school official that noticed, was asked why he was hitting me. HE actually said he was trying to help by getting me to fight back!

BTW a noticable bruise on a baby almost DEMANDS a report. In several cases, they require asking an ADULT if they "feel safe at home". HECK, they ask ME that every time I go to the hospital or my doctor! I actually asked them WHY they ask, and they said they are required to.

It is funny how people say the WORDS are what counts. To SAVE someone from death and cause someones death are quite different. To save someone and save bullets... also mean something different. HECK, some words have a totally different or even opposite meaning depending on how they are used. And they ask if it MATTERS if the tapes are altered. Well heck, if it doesn't matter how they are altered, the content doesn't matter and if that doesn't matter, then why are people even discussing it. Just wait, they'll ask does it really matter if it is mel?

Frankly, they should get the ORIGINAL tapes and check THEM, and analyze the voice and equipment mel had available, and see if it matches. If it doesn't, she should pay HIM for all this hassle. If it fits, they should find the context of the call. If it is as people seem to think, THEN he should maybe pay some charity, etc... Who knows. If it isn't as people seem to think, maybe the whole thing should just be left alone.

HECK, he talks about paying $5,000,000 to her, and she says it wasn't to her but to a recording company, apparently for HER! So her reasoning is MORONIC, INSULTING, and could only serve to make him MORE irate. Maybe that was her intent. Some will listen to her lilting soft voice that, if you didn't hear the words, almost sounds like a compliment, and his response sounds like he is some aggresive intimidating IDIOT. MEANWHILE, I hear that in context and realize that she is effectively saying NANA NA NA NA, I stole your money and time and faith and there is nothing you can do about it and I don't care. Her voice makes it even sound WORSE, and I can understand why he is angry there.

BTW a LOT of the stuff on those tapes is BAD. I am not disputing THAT. I'm just saying that parts of it make Oksana look VERY bad and some parts that SEEM to make mel look bad are understandable and not as some might think, like the example I gave in the last paragraph.

And now they are saying "they CLAIM the person on the tapes is mel". That indicates that THEY are starting to doubt it.

Steve

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yeah, and he also threatened to kill her. Is that OK all of a sudden?

I thought you were for women who have been abused, threatened, intimidated etc.... Why the change of heart with this guy?

Tim,

Have you ever been backed in to a corner? Gotten so mad (whether at a woman or a man) where you say things you normally wouldn't?

If you haven't, don't be so quick to judge. And consider yourself lucky.

My first wife ALWAYS knew which buttons to push and how and when to push them. She pushed me so hard that I became someone I normally would never be. I said things to her that I never said to anyone else (before or since). In fact, when I told these stories to my current wife she said she can't believe the things I told her I said/did during that time in my life.

People like this can be relentless - trust me. They know exactly what they are doing. In fact, my ex wife did the EXACT same things to her second husband. Manipulative to say the least. In fact, I can tell you 100% that she did WHATEVER she had to do to get married first to me, then to husband number two. The she did WHATEVER she had to do to get out of them on her terms (can you say expensive divorces?).

I know the correct/flip/glib thing to say is "No matter how hard I am pushed I would NEVER say the things Mel said..." but that's not a true statement. It's no different than any other high stress situation - people do things they normally would not. It's easy to be high and mighty if you have never been in such a horrible situation.

Abuse comes in ALL forms. And it's NOT always women who get the receiving end of that abuse. I am not saying Mel is innocent in this case because quite frankly, I wasn't there. I have no way of knowing. But I am saying that it is 100% possible that he was pushed over the edge over a period of time and that this woman planned the entire thing.

Mike

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Umm. Yes Mike I have. I would venture to say I have been screwed by a woman much worse than anything Mel has been through. I ain't being freeking high and mighty either when I say I never have threatened to kill someone when I was in a rage. Oh, and I also get drunk on ocassion, but still don't threaten to kill people or actually hit a woman. I must be missing those genes or something. If you think that's being glib, flip that's your problem.

Many of you are saying we don't know what really happened, but at the same time are quick to condemn Oksana. I find that interesting. Maybe she is guilty of something also, but I just am going by these tapes, which seems to be the only thing we can go by as of now.

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Tim,

Have you ever been backed in to a corner? Gotten so mad (whether at a woman or a man) where you say things you normally wouldn't?

If you haven't, don't be so quick to judge. And consider yourself lucky.

My first wife ALWAYS knew which buttons to push and how and when to push them. She pushed me so hard that I became someone I normally would never be. I said things to her that I never said to anyone else (before or since). In fact, when I told these stories to my current wife she said she can't believe the things I told her I said/did during that time in my life.

People like this can be relentless - trust me. They know exactly what they are doing. In fact, my ex wife did the EXACT same things to her second husband. Manipulative to say the least. In fact, I can tell you 100% that she did WHATEVER she had to do to get married first to me, then to husband number two. The she did WHATEVER she had to do to get out of them on her terms (can you say expensive divorces?).

I know the correct/flip/glib thing to say is "No matter how hard I am pushed I would NEVER say the things Mel said..." but that's not a true statement. It's no different than any other high stress situation - people do things they normally would not. It's easy to be high and mighty if you have never been in such a horrible situation.

Abuse comes in ALL forms. And it's NOT always women who get the receiving end of that abuse. I am not saying Mel is innocent in this case because quite frankly, I wasn't there. I have no way of knowing. But I am saying that it is 100% possible that he was pushed over the edge over a period of time and that this woman planned the entire thing.

Mike

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Actually Tim, I wasn't calling you glib or anything. Some comments sound that way throughout the thread, so I was generalizing. You can relax

But to be clear, the fact that you never got pushed to a point where you made a threat doesn't mean it doesn't, can't or shouldn't happen. Everyone is different and handles stress differently.

It's like being faced with some threat (such as a fire or in a battle). Some people do extraordinarily heroic things, others do nothing, others whatever it takes to save their own hide.

My own therapist (who was also my ex's, as well as our marriage counselor) told me she was surprised I DIDN'T act out, considering the constant verbal and emotional abuse I was subject to for almost 10 years...

And for the record, I wasn't "condemning" whatever her name is. Just raising the possibility that MAYBE there's more to the situation than meets the eye. Most of your responses seem to simply dismiss other possibilities simply because of the tape.

It's obvious Mel needs serious help. However, tapes can be misleading, misinterpreted, faked, doctored - or real. You hardly ever get the full story. But since none of us here HAVE the original tape, don't know WHAT the exact circumstances were, etc. judging either side is premature.

Mike

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Umm. Yes Mike I have. I would venture to say I have been screwed by a woman much worse than anything Mel has been through. I ain't being freeking high and mighty either when I say I never have threatened to kill someone when I was in a rage. Oh, and I also get drunk on ocassion, but still don't threaten to kill people or actually hit a woman. I must be missing those genes or something. If you think that's being glib, flip that's your problem.

Many of you are saying we don't know what really happened, but at the same time are quick to condemn Oksana. I find that interesting. Maybe she is guilty of something also, but I just am going by these tapes, which seems to be the only thing we can go by as of now.

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mayapearl

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I think he's being framed. He's mad and his mouth might run, but I think she's worked him over from head to toe. Those tapes don't sound like random shouting -- they sound like guy who is backed into a corner and has had about all he can take. This bitch fits the MO of some of the women that used to come to the crisis center to get us to back them up when lying through their teeth. Ever had a woman try to put you in jail for rape just because you dumped her? It happens more frequently than you'd realize.

I think the tapes are Mel - and I think he's been pushed over the edge -- and I think she's manipulated this situation for her own damn selfish whims. I hope she messes up and gets caught and jailed for it.

The sad thing is - if he'd never gotten public attention for being stupid while drunk, she'd never been able to swing this one.

This is exactly my feeling on this one!
He may be a scumbag and a drunk but she is definitely exploiting this!
Maya

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Wow. I agree with Mel. How dare her fall asleep before blowing him. She really knows how to push his buttons. She obviously deserves all the rage Mel spews. [/sarcasm]

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

"How dare you act like such a b**ch, when I've been so f**king nice?" Mel screams at his ex, Oksana Grigorieva, before raging at her for falling asleep before he could get a blow job in the jacuzzi.

"I let you sleep, I shouldn't have woken you up and said 'f*cking blow me! That was my goddamn mistake," Mel screams.

His panting and screaming gets more out of control from there.

"I deserve to be blown first! Before the f*cking Jacuzzi!

Ok, I'll burn the goddamn house up, but blow me first! How dare you!??!"

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seasoned

16 years ago

I'm with Heysal, and I would say the SAME if I were a woman. As I said, it sounds cartoonish, etc... SERIOUSLY, maybe you guys should watch love stinks. It is funny, logical, could be real life, entertaining, and MIGHT be what is happening with Mel.

And given what Whoopi and his ex wife said, I would say it is LIKELY! As for being racist, etc... it is possible he has tendencies, etc... but has no concious ill will to such people. Booze, drugs, harassment, etc... ARE well known triggers and the average person WILL speak ill LONG before doing anything about it.

And people ARE questioning if it is even mel. And many are saying the tapes seem doctored. On larry king, BOTH "expert"s agreed it sounded SCRIPTED!

Steve

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HeySal

16 years ago

I doubt she is arguing that a person abusing women, etc... should be given any special treatment.

No. I wasn't.

The fact of the matter is that I got together with someone who took me for everything I had and wanted more and had this very same thing done to me. I was recorded unbeknown to me several times during conversations that I didn't see were being manipulated. Later on I was harassed within an inch of my life and finally exploded - and it was taped out of context, just as the previous tapes had been. He threatened to take it all to court. Actually - he already had trashed me out as badly as I could be trashed so there was nothing left for him to get - but he thought I was coming into a major amount of money and couldn't stand the thought that he wasn't going to get it all (in fact, he wasn't getting a cent). He had made a few very extreme errors in judgement, though - greed does that - and almost wound up in the klink for the whole kit and kabootle.

What I see and hear is the same thing I went through -- and that is why I am defending him. I think there is another side of the story - and that it would put her behind bars for a long time if the truth came out. It's just all too familiar to me.

Case closed - that is more than I wanted to tell, but if people have to speculate so hard on why a woman is standing up for his stupid, drunk ass (and that, I do think is the truth), I might as well tell my reasoning for why I am so staunch in his defense.

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seasoned 16 years ago

Yeah Sal, I thought it was something like that. The same sort of thing has happened with me. In my cases I was often the one wishing I had a full tape, but people would hear, or remember, only a part, and then you look WORSE than you are. AND sometimes untrue things might be said and not countered so they keep going forward.

Steve
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mayapearl

16 years ago

Mel Gibson is a great actor but he is also a very bad drunk.
As for those tapes, well Oksana made them, Why? To prove to the world that he is a bad person and a racist? Or maybe to set him up nicely and get a big divorce settlement.
We only hear him rant and rave, that is because SHE MADE THE TAPE! How do we know what she says or how she behaves when she is not being taped.
I don't condone violence be it verbal or physical, but I see here an individual coming unraveled, he is an actor, this does not make him special nor does it make him any better than the next Joe.
So he is a foul mouthed drunk, bad, bad Mel.
Now we can all feel so good and virtuous because we don't get drunk, or utter profanities... We can throw our stones now.

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sparckyz

16 years ago

Darn! says the material can't be viewed in my country, for America only?

I wanted to heal Mel in a rampage

Seriously though, loads of stars are mental, but they still deliver when required. He has done some awesome films..

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Dale_Anthony

16 years ago

"Is there any good reason to hit a woman??"

In the words of Chris Rock..."Ain't nobody above an ass whuppin"

then he goes on to say..."no matter who you are, you can always do something where you deserve to get your ass whupped."

I haven't followed the story that closely so Who knows whether it happened or she deserved it or not...probably not...who knows?....only her and Mel know

.................

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

I can't wait to see how this turns out.

TL

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MikeAmbrosio 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I can't wait to see how this turns out.

TL

The only place I have "followed" this story is here. I don't typically watch the TV rags...waste of good, valuable time (to me).
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- seasoned 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio
  
  The only place I have "followed" this story is here. I don't typically watch the TV rags...waste of good, valuable time (to me).
  
  Outside of a few sound bytes on TV, the same is true of me. I watched larry king ONLY because I happened across it. MAYBE I'll watch the retrospective coming up, but that is it.
  
  Steve
  
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seasoned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I can't wait to see how this turns out.

TL

You know, I LOVE this(sarc). SOME claim this is from an earlier court case. If true, AT THE VERY LEAST, the owner of radar whatever should be THROWN IN JAIL for CONTEMPT OF COURT(He released a tape known to be part of a sealed case). If he doesn't state his source, he should be charged as being an accomplice after the fact(The tape was stolen, or released in contempt) and obstruction of justice. If it ISN'T part of an earlier case, the chain of custody is certainly in question. Of course, NEITHER means the tapes are proper, etc...

Steve
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

What do I think I know about this situation???

1: Mel has admitted on tape that he hit her while she had a baby in her arms.

( among a bunch of other things )

2: She gave up a well paying career to be with Mel etc.

3: Mel was upset because she didn't blow him asap.

4: Someone is leaking the tape recordings to the Radon.com

5: Mel is really, really pissed about Osaka's activities.

6: She does seem to be reading from a script when they talk on the phone. (sometimes)

7: Both parties want sole custody of the baby.

- If Mel gets the baby, she will get no support from Mel.

- If she gets the baby, she will receive perhaps at least 25k per month in child support.

My reading...

If she abandoned her career because of Mel's promises, she should be compensated.

She is correct to fear for her safety.

She wants to prove Mel psycho so that she can get custody of the baby in order to receive child support.

TL

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

She wants to prove Mel psycho so that she can get custody of the baby in order to receive child support.

TL

And if he IS psycho, she SHOULD get full custody.

But if she's manipulating the situation, then she's no more deserving than he is.

Just sayin....

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

But to be clear, the fact that you never got pushed to a point where you made a threat doesn't mean it doesn't, can't or shouldn't happen. Everyone is different and handles stress differently.

Of course. Some people actually do kill people.

Most of your responses seem to simply dismiss other possibilities simply because of the tape.

Really? Most? Can you show me just one?

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MikeAmbrosio 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Of course. Some people actually do kill people.

Really? Most? Can you show me just one?

Edit:

Look, let me be clear here...

I do NOT condone his behavior any more than I condoned my own during my "dark" years. In fact, I am not even defending Mel - nor am I saying Oksana is a liar.

I am simply raising the possibility that there's more to the story, and that I could UNDERSTAND certain behaviors.

Nothing more, nothing less.
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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

What do I think I know about this situation???

1: Mel has admitted on tape that he hit her while she had a baby in her arms.

EVEN if that tape were him, it doesn't sound like an actual confession/

2: She gave up a well paying career to be with Mel etc.

Really NOT meaningful considering he was a bigger fish, and she took him for so much.

3: Mel was upset because she didn't blow him asap.

IF it were him, and the tapes weren't altered, that IS damning from a christian, catholic, decency standpoint, let alone anything else.

4: Someone is leaking the tape recordings to the Radon.com

YEP, and I am pretty sure it is considered a felony. A MINOR one, but they can STILL be locked up!

5: Mel is really, really pissed about Osaka's activities.

YEP! THAT is understandable!

6: She does seem to be reading from a script when they talk on the phone. (sometimes)

I have YET to hear a case where it DIDN'T sound scripted!

7: Both parties want sole custody of the baby.

- If Mel gets the baby, she will get no support from Mel.

Frankly, if I were the judge, if he were deemed innocent, I would give custody to HIM. Otherwise, I don't know WHAT I would do. She doesn't seem to care about the child OR expenses, let alone its father.

- If she gets the baby, she will receive perhaps at least 25k per month in child support.

25K for just child support IS a lot, but still not enough to ALONE trigger this for someone that makes so much.

If she abandoned her career because of Mel's promises, she should be compensated.

I don't think she should get a PENNY for that. She has ALREADY taken him for PLENTY!

She is correct to fear for her safety.

She wants to prove Mel psycho so that she can get custody of the baby in order to receive child support.

It is a FUNNY way to act if you fear for your life. She PLANS to make him irate! A big blowhard pushed hard enough, like she tried, COULD consider MURDER!

Frankly, drunk or sober, I would be surprised if he stayed on the phone that long.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

EVEN if that tape were him, it doesn't sound like an actual confession/

Really NOT meaningful considering he was a bigger fish, and she took him for so much.

IF it were him, and the tapes weren't altered, that IS damning from a christian, catholic, decency standpoint, let alone anything else.

YEP, and I am pretty sure it is considered a felony. A MINOR one, but they can STILL be locked up!

YEP! THAT is understandable!

I have YET to hear a case where it DIDN'T sound scripted!

Frankly, if I were the judge, if he were deemed innocent, I would give custody to HIM. Otherwise, I don't know WHAT I would do. She doesn't seem to care about the child OR expenses, let alone its father.

25K for just child support IS a lot, but still not enough to ALONE trigger this for someone that makes so much.

I don't think she should get a PENNY for that. She has ALREADY taken him for PLENTY!

It is a FUNNY way to act if you fear for your life. She PLANS to make him irate! A big blowhard pushed hard enough, like she tried, COULD consider MURDER!

Frankly, drunk or sober, I would be surprised if he stayed on that long.

Steve

Sounds like he clearly admitted hitting her while she was holding the baby to me - if I remember correctly.

You said...

She doesn't seem to care about the child OR expenses, let alone its father.

I say...

Where did you get the stuff about her not caring for the child???

Because Mel said so???

Is it possible that she just didn't want to deal with Mel anymore and this is what triggered this whole affair??

If she gave up her career for Mel, she should be compensated.

It's called palimony.

Do you know how much money Mel has given her already or something??

Oh, Mel claims he's given her/up 5 million because of her right?

TL

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mattlaclear

16 years ago

So Mel left his wife for a younger better looking woman and now it's not working out so hot for him? Fellows the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Mel's a boozer who is trying to drown his pain and most likely blamed his ex wife for his unhappiness so he went out and replaced her. Now the pain is still there but now he doesn't have the support of his family around him and he's freaking. Truly sad all the way around. There are times in my marriage (we have been married 15 years and have six children) where it looks very easy to blame your shortcomings on your spouse or vice versa. But there comes a time that in order for a man to be a man he must look into his bathroom mirror and lock eyes on himself and take responsibility for his own pain and then do something to change it if he is serious about removing it. Dude chose booze and adultery as means to battling his pain instead. If I were his friend I would tell him to put in a dvd of his Passion movie and sit there sober and absorb the true message of it and then start living his life according to the forgiveness that could be his for the taking. But to do that he will have to do the type of soul searching that leaves you scraped up and bruised from the insides. Which isn't as attractive an option to him as "booze and broads" are me thinks.

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rahulr

16 years ago

Celebrities and their weirdo's why should we IMrs Bother IT.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Here's Wikipedia's info on the lady in question.

- She taught music in the U.S., patented a technique of teaching musical notation to children and has written published songs.

- She's hardly a sceezer as it seems like she had a career before Mel.

Oksana Grigorieva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's Mel. His ex-wife has come out saying she was never hit or abused by Mel in their long marriage. She's heard the tapes. She would say "That isn't Mel" if it wasn't.

This is all leading up to a custody battle where Oksana is seeking full custody. Plus, a spokesman for Mel is saying she tried to extort money from him. However, Oksana makes a good case in one of the audios about how she wasn't after money. She had money before they met. She wasn't some big star, but she had a career:

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Here's Wikipedia's info on the lady in question.

- She taught music in the U.S., patented a technique of teaching musical notation to children and has written published songs.

- She's hardly a sceezer as it seems like she had a career before Mel.

Oksana Grigorieva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Certainly looks impressive.

Again, NOT saying she's either one thing or another. But from personal experience I can tell you that the most manipulative people will seem perfect to anyone on the outside. They go to great lengths to make sure of that.

Food for thought.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Well, if you are going to take the broken up possibly out of context spoken over part of the tape where "mel" supposedly admits("confesses") he beat her, and threatens her, then you should CERTAINLY take the part where mel says he paid her $5Million, and she says he signed that to the record company.

She speaks about the child as if it were a SHIELD! She reminded me of that scene in "I love lucy" where everyone had to tell ricky something that would make him ANGRY and, as they did, they asked for the child! She mentioned nothing about the child being endangered or hurt, and she is taking all that money, making him so mad, etc... What mother does THAT!?!?!?

And the way in which they became "pals", and all that has already been paid, etc... She should probably get NOTHING! Like I said, if he is to pay, let it be to a charity!

Steve

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Diana Lane

16 years ago

Two things. First, if a man beats up a woman when she is pregnant or trying to hold the baby then the last thing she wants is his money, she just wants out. Don't ask me how I know this because I won't be elaborating, but the comment that he should be forced to give her the bulk of his money got to me a bit. Mel's ex seems to want his money, but for many women every penny would stink like a five year dead cod, especially if she already had money of her own. I can't imagine a charity wanting to benefit from domestic violence either.

Secondly... there isn't a secondly. I don't know (or admittedly even care) enough about either of them to be able to form a reliable opinion and wasn't there when these events happened. They both seem as bad as each other in different ways, and whoever the courts favour in the end I can't see there being any 'winner'. The poor kid that's at the centre of it all looks set to lose the most - in all the ways that matter, anyway.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Diana Lane

Two things. First, if a man beats up a woman when she is pregnant or trying to hold the baby then the last thing she wants is his money, she just wants out. Don't ask me how I know this because I won't be elaborating, but the comment that he should be forced to give her the bulk of his money got to me a bit. Mel's ex seems to want his money, but for many women every penny would stink like a five year dead cod, especially if she already had money of her own. I can't imagine a charity wanting to benefit from domestic violence either.

Secondly... there isn't a secondly. I don't know (or admittedly even care) enough about either of them to be able to form a reliable opinion and wasn't there when these events happened. They both seem as bad as each other in different ways, and whoever the courts favour in the end I can't see there being any 'winner'. The poor kid that's at the centre of it all looks set to lose the most - in all the ways that matter, anyway.

Oh DEFINITELY, the child should be provided for. I heard that he supposedly hit her with the child in her arms.

Frankly, she sounds like the kind of person that should be PUNISHED! In such a case the fee paid by the aggresor is mainly punishment. If they want to punish one without benefiting the other, it is generally a fine to the government or charity.

And YEAH, if I were her I would move out and maybe THEN call him, if I wanted to entrap him. The FIRST goal would be finding a safe place for me and my child. HECK, if he IS so aggressive, WHO KNOWS what he could do!?!? Maybe he has friends that are like minded, etc.... Look at how mel treated HIS character's girlfriend in payback! He asked her to make sure her name wasn't on the lease(Because he was about to make it a crime scene.), and had her move to a secret location and THEN he went after the other guys.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Oh DEFINITELY, the child should be provided for. I heard that he supposedly hit her with the child in her arms.

Frankly, she sounds like the kind of person that should be PUNISHED!

In such a case the fee paid by the aggresor is mainly punishment. If they want to punish one without benefiting the other, it is generally a fine to the government or charity.

And YEAH, if I were her I would move out and maybe THEN call him, if I wanted to entrap him. The FIRST goal would be finding a safe place for me and my child. HECK, if he IS so aggressive, WHO KNOWS what he could do!?!? Maybe he has friends that are like minded, etc.... Look at how mel treated HIS character's girlfriend in payback! He asked her to make sure her name wasn't on the lease(Because he was about to make it a crime scene.), and had her move to a secret location and THEN he went after the other guys.

Steve

Do you have something personally against her??

You said she should be punished.

Would you like to do the punishing???

TL

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TimPhelan 16 years ago

OK, it all makes sense now. Steve is actually Mel Gibson! I think this has been planned for years. No wonder Steve/Mel won't post a photo of himself or reveal his last name.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Do you have something personally against her??

You said she should be punished.

Would you like to do the punishing???

TL
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seasoned

16 years ago

NICE TRY Tim. A number of people here have seen me, more have heard me, and even more know my name. OH WELL..

NO, she obviously mistreated him, and acted like her child was a shield. ALSO, she broke up the marriage. SO, even if mel is guilty, SHE isn't innocent. Don't get me wrong, if mel is guilty, he SHOULD be punished ALSO.

Steve

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

I've wondered what you look like. If you aren't Mel Gibson then is this you Steve?

Originally Posted by seasoned

NICE TRY Tim. A number of people here have seen me, more have heard me, and even more know my name. OH WELL..

NO, she obviously mistreated him, and acted like her child was a shield. ALSO, she broke up the marriage. SO, even if mel is guilty, SHE isn't innocent. Don't get me wrong, if mel is guilty, he SHOULD be punished ALSO.

Steve

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MikeAmbrosio 16 years ago

Tim,

I'd say this is hitting below the belt... but, I can't see where the belt would be!

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I've wondered what you look like. If you aren't Mel Gibson then is this you Steve?
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seasoned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I've wondered what you look like. If you aren't Mel Gibson then is this you Steve?

GEE, now you are getting REALLY insulting! I said I was fat, even obese, but that guy is STILL at least 3 times my size! base on the smaller forearms, smaller legs, smaller face, and tiny chair, I'm betting that was photoshopped! Still, what would that guy weigh? 900+ pounds? YIKES!

Steve
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

How exactly would you punish her Seasoned????

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seasoned

16 years ago

TL,

Fifty lashes and a HANGING! 8-)

NOPE, I was KIDDING there, I only said what you wanted me to! How do you THINK!? Maybe a fine, and no income from mel!

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

You sure?

She's been a baaaad, baaaad girl right?

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

You sure?

She's been a baaaad, baaaad girl right?

Are you 100% positive she HASN'T been? Perhaps you're neighbors?

I wrote about this above, but I know from experience that things/people are NOT always what they seem. Having a tape on ONE person does not mean the other person is an angel. You just can't simply ignore the possibility.

This issue is something I am intimately familiar with. 10 years worth, first hand.

I am not saying she is good, bad or otherwise. But given what I experienced, well, call me a cynic.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Are you 100% positive she HASN'T been? Perhaps you're neighbors?

I wrote about this above, but I know from experience that things/people are NOT always what they seem. Having a tape on ONE person does not mean the other person is an angel. You just can't simply ignore the possibility.

This issue is something I am intimately familiar with. 10 years worth, first hand.

I am not saying she is good, bad or otherwise. But given what I experienced, well, call me a cynic.

I'm not 100% sure what's going on in this case either.

Maybe she had enough of Mel and wanted to end the relationship and every thing stems from there.

Seasoned said that she should be punished.

I was just wondering what type of punishment he was talking about.

TL

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm not 100% sure what's going on in this case either.

Maybe she had enough of Mel and wanted to end the relationship and every thing stems from there.

Seasoned said that she should be punished.

I was just wondering what type of punishment he was talking about.

TL

I hear you.

At the end of the day, this whole thing is probably Mel losing it. We'll never know for sure.

But the conversation has been lively

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elison

16 years ago

maybe its not right in the thread but i want to say that famous people sometimes forget that they r just people like others and they do things that r not allowed, and sometimes people want famous people to do smth wrong and they wait for it and in this case with Mel they get what they want.

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Kurt

16 years ago

1. If Mel is this badly manipulated by a woman, how will he handle kids manipulating him? They'll chew him up and spit him out.

2. And even if she is the biggest bitch in the World, Mel should march down to Blockbuster and rent the "Passion" DVD and try to figure out the message of his own movie.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

1. If Mel is this badly manipulated by a woman, how will he handle kids manipulating him? They'll chew him up and spit him out.

You have obviously never been subject to this.

In my case, my kids were my sanity. They saved my life

Originally Posted by Kurt

2. And even if she is the biggest bitch in the World, Mel should march down to Blockbuster and rent the "Passion" DVD and try to figure out the message of his own movie.

Ah, if all the worlds problems were so easily fixed. It would have saved me a TON of money on therapy

Why does a battered woman stay with the man who beats here? The answers are complex. Not cut and dried. Certainly not fixable by watching a movie.

I am assuming that was a joke on your part, because you never struck me as naive...

Finally, maybe in Mel's case, it ISN'T her. Maybe he's just a looney bird. I only ever said it was a POSSIBILITY that she manipulated things...

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Ah, if all the worlds problems were so easily fixed. It would have saved me a TON of money on therapy

Why does a battered woman stay with the man who beats here? The answers are complex. Not cut and dried. Certainly not fixable by watching a movie.

I am assuming that was a joke on your part, because you never struck me as naive...

Finally, maybe in Mel's case, it ISN'T her. Maybe he's just a looney bird. I only ever said it was a POSSIBILITY that she manipulated things...

I was partly joking. But my point stands. My suggestion wasn't intended to be a "cure" or a "fix", only a message I believe Mel needs to revisit and never hinted that things were "easy".

People have suggested a number of possibilities but offered zero substance to back it up, other than a "two wrongs make a right" logical fallacy...

And it hasn't even been proven in any way she was in the wrong to start with.

The "pro Mel" side doesn't even present theories, they are hypothesis (what's the plural?), as theories require at least a little bit of evidence.

Mel has a long history. It's been documented by the police. There is a tape of him saying things.

There may well be circumstances we are not aware of that would affect my opinion in the future, but as a poker player, this is the info I have now, so it's the info I go on now. And no one has presented any facts to the contrary.

And then in the cases being made above, we are to assume that all additional facts are pro-Mel. Maybe these unknown facts will not help Mel's case?

If one side can assume the unknown is all good for Mel, the other side can assume all the unknown factors are all bad for Mel. Yet this hasn't been brought up by all the "fair minded folks".

Isn't it just as possible that Mel has even more skeletons in his closet, if not buried in his rose garden? Maybe he's even worse than he sounds on the tape and the tape was only a short sample, backed up by his previous history? Maybe he forced her into sexual acts she didn't like...See, I can make up stuff too...

But me, I'll form my opinion based on the best known facts I have at the time and am willing to change as more info is available, just like a good poker player should.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I was partly joking. But my point stands. My suggestion wasn't intended to be a "cure" or a "fix", only a message I believe Mel needs to revisit and never hinted that things were "easy".

Kinda figured that...

Originally Posted by Kurt

People have suggested a number of possibilities but offered zero substance to back it up, other than a "two wrongs make a right" logical fallacy...

And it hasn't even been proven in any way she was in the wrong to start with.

Personally, I DON'T buy into the two wrongs make a right thing. And correct - these ARE assumptions. What else COULD they be? None of us here know these people

I also never said Mel was right or Oksana was wrong. Simply presenting a viewpoint, which we are all entitled. I have also not said anyone else's viewpoints were wrong, etc.

Originally Posted by Kurt

The "pro Mel" side doesn't even present theories, they are hypothesis (what's the plural?), as theories require at least a little bit of evidence.

Um, no. Hypotheses (plural) are just that - guesses. Conviction requires evidence. Well, SUPPOSED to anyway, but we know how that works sometimes...

Originally Posted by Kurt

Mel has a long history. It's been documented by the police. There is a tape of him saying things.

As I stated several times - the man probably IS a loony-bird.

Originally Posted by Kurt

There may well be circumstances we are not aware of that would affect my opinion in the future, but as a poker player, this is the info I have now, so it's the info I go on now. And no one has presented any facts to the contrary.

Seeing things on the surface only has never been my strong suit. Which is probably why I suck at poker.

Originally Posted by Kurt

And then in the cases being made above, we are to assume that all additional facts are pro-Mel. Maybe these unknown facts will not help Mel's case?

You are correct. Which, again, is why these are theories.

Originally Posted by Kurt

If one side can assume the unknown is all good for Mel, the other side can assume all the unknown factors are all bad for Mel. Yet this hasn't been brought up by all the "fair minded folks".

Then you need to read a bit closer. Really, all the arguments (I am making) are more "devils advocate" type arguments. I have never asserted that I was right, Mel was set up, Oksana was wrong, or anything like that.

Originally Posted by Kurt

Isn't it just as possible that Mel has even more skeletons in his closet, if not buried in his rose garden? Maybe he's even worse than he sounds on the tape and the tape was only a short sample, backed up by his previous history? Maybe he forced her into sexual acts she didn't like...See, I can make up stuff too...

Yes, on all counts. See my replies above.

Originally Posted by Kurt

But me, I'll form my opinion based on the best known facts I have at the time and am willing to change as more info is available, just like a good poker player should.

Again - I don't really HAVE an opinion of guilt or innocence. Again, playing devils advocate.

At some point, my guess is that BOTH sides will reach some nice, quiet settlement and move on (until the next thing hits the fan).

Mike

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sloanjim

16 years ago

so you have kept an open mind about her then Sal? Gee. I expected better.

This bitch fits the MO of some of the women that used to come to the crisis center to get us to back them up when lying through their teeth. Ever had a woman try to put you in jail for rape just because you dumped her? It happens more frequently than you'd realize.

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sloanjim

16 years ago

many of you already sem to know it was a set up and Mel acted fine? Well....backed into a corner or not what he did and said was not that of a sane man. She knows he has one hell of a temper...MAYBE she exploited this. Doesn't gloss over what he did though. Sorry.

Some of are jumping to conclusuions and have already decided what "really happened". Unbelievable. Leave your personal luggage out.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

many of you already sem to know it was a set up and Mel acted fine? Well....backed into a corner or not what he did and said was not that of a sane man. She knows he has one hell of a temper...MAYBE she exploited this. Doesn't gloss over what he did though. Sorry.

Some of are jumping to conclusuions and have already decided what "really happened". Unbelievable. Leave your personal luggage out.

Ok Captain. If you insist

(hoo, boy - another one...)

Actually MOST of the people are jumping to conclusions.

Including you.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

many of you already sem to know it was a set up and Mel acted fine? Well....backed into a corner or not what he did and said was not that of a sane man. She knows he has one hell of a temper...MAYBE she exploited this. Doesn't gloss over what he did though. Sorry.

Some of are jumping to conclusuions and have already decided what "really happened". Unbelievable. Leave your personal luggage out.

The tapes WERE a setup! Some of his anger was a setup. The question is merely how true is it! That's IT! Did she hurt him? YEP! Did he hurt her???????? Did he even say all that garbage to her????????

Steve

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Kurt

16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

The tapes WERE a setup! Some of his anger was a setup. The question is merely how true is it! That's IT! Did she hurt him? YEP! Did he hurt her???????? Did he even say all that garbage to her????????

Steve

Let's assume you are correct. So what!

Ever seen the show "Bait Car"? The one were the LA cops park a "bait car" to set up car thiefs then arrest them for their actions after being set up?

How well do you think the "I was set up" defense will hold up in court?

And once you do prove she set Mel up, we get to your next hurdle, which is the "two wrongs make a right" fallacy.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Let's assume you are correct. So what!

Ever seen the show "Bait Car"? The one were the LA cops park a "bait car" to set up car thiefs then arrest them for their actions after being set up?

How well do you think the "I was set up" defense will hold up in court?

And once you do prove she set Mel up, we get to your next hurdle, which is the "two wrongs make a right" fallacy.

I NEVER said two wrongs made a right. I NEVER said he should get off because she did something bad.

As for the setup, I didn't say THAT could be used as an excuse either, I was merely responding. BTW there ARE a few ways, ESPECIALLY NOW, that he could get the tape thrown out. And all this talk is really poisoning the possible pool of jurors. THAT is why this was sealed up.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

The tapes WERE a setup! Some of his anger was a setup. The question is merely how true is it! That's IT! Did she hurt him? YEP! Did he hurt her???????? Did he even say all that garbage to her????????

Steve

Of course the tapes were a setup.

How did she hurt Mel???

Looks like one way she hurt him badly was...

... withholding some of her favors as evidenced by Mel going postal over the "Blow me before the jacuzzi" ranting.

Are you disputing whether that was Mel on those recordings???

Even his wife doesn't dispute it.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Of course the tapes were a setup.

How did she hurt Mel???

Looks like one way she hurt him badly was...

... withholding some of her favors as evidenced by Mel going postal over the "Blow me before the jacuzzi" ranting.

Are you disputing whether that was Mel on those recordings???

Even his wife doesn't dispute it.

I never heard his wife say it was him. I merely said it might not be, and they could be doctored.

You can bet she put him through emotional abuse and then there is the money. As I said earlier, the whole "blow me" deal is wrong on several levels. If he really said it, HECK! That could destroy a bit of his career and associations right THERE!

Steve

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sloanjim

16 years ago

and the beating he dished out? That was ok? Not in my book.

I hear you.

At the end of the day, this whole thing is probably Mel losing it. We'll never know for sure.

But the conversation has been lively

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MikeAmbrosio 16 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

and the beating he dished out? That was ok? Not in my book.

Hmmm - I don't see where I said THAT.

Are you making things up as you go along?
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Bobby Rodgers

16 years ago

These tapes were pretty disturbing. I feel sorry for the women.

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HibikiTarek

16 years ago

The only Mel Gibson movie I liked anyway was Braveheart

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

New recording released...

It's a barn burner.

Here's some of it...

In this new tape, Oksana refers to that hitting incident and tells Mel that there is something wrong with him and he needs medication.

This is the recorded dialogue after she says that:

Oksana: You cannot raise the child with these symptoms.

Mel: What?

Oksana: You’re acting as a crazy man right now and you have been for many, many months.

And you hit me, and you hit her (Lucia) while she was in my hands! Mel, you’re losing your mind.

You need medication.”

Mel: You need a f*cking kick up the a** for being a b*tch, c*nt, gold digging whore! With a p*ssy son!

And I want my child, and no one will believe you! So f*ck you!”

You can listen for yourself here if you like...

EXCLUSIVE AUDIO: The Tape That Could Destroy Mel: "No One Will Believe You", He Says After She Charges: "You Hit The Baby" | RadarOnline.com

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seasoned

16 years ago

THIS tape is supposed to destroy him, etc? SHE is starting to show some of her true colors. SHE is starting to cuss. And she says he is overly generous, and then says he is a jerk. BTW she EARLIER tried a popular method of lying, but HERE clearly all but confesses that he DID pay a lot of money for things she wanted. She calls him dear, and accuses him of whatever. AGAIN, a typical conperson's ploy. She says she has willingly given up any claim to the money, but obviously wants it. Of all the tapes, I think this is the one that shows a MORE balanced exchange. SHE is the only one making claims or really implying anything about him. If he weren't yelling so much, cussing, and refering to the sucking and her son, people would think SHE was nuts!

In the other tapes, at least people could point to where he threatened her, or supposedly confesses to hurting her, etc... in some way.

Of course, if that IS mel, I don't like the language or some of the ideas. BUT, sadly, that kind of talk is ALL TOO COMMON. Courts have recently thrown out ALL prohibitions on it in the media. And people DO tend to yell when they are upset, etc... As for the insults? He was probably trying the same sort of thing on her that she tries on him. She just tried to maintain composure because she knew she was taping.

BTW people on the news have started saying what I did a while back. The release of these tapes could HURT oksana's(sp?) case. They CLAIM that they could get other evidence but examples they have given are LAUGHABLE! I don't think that half of them are even ALLOWED!

Of course, mel's career has ALREADY been hurt a LOT.

It would be interesting to get a timeline on all this stuff.

And it may sound like I am trying to defend mel. I'm NOT. I just want all to work out right.

To refer to ransom, this is almost like THAT movie. One guy HATES the protagonists guts, but is locked in jail. Another ACTS like he has such a beef, but doesn't. He kidnaps the guys son. When the father puts the ransom on the kidnapper's head, the kidnapper kills his accomplices, and acts like a hero. EVERYONE loves him, and the father finds out that he is the kidnapper. He is FORCED to try to go through with paying off the kidnapper. In the end, all works out. The police ALMOST kill the father for getting justice!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Of course, if that IS mel, I don't like the language or some of the ideas.

Is there anyone else in here that thinks this may NOT be Mel Gibson on the recordings???

EXCLUSIVE AUDIO: The Tape That Could Destroy Mel: "No One Will Believe You", He Says After She Charges: "You Hit The Baby" | RadarOnline.com

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TimPhelan 16 years ago

The truth is out. Mel is actually talking to the Old Spice dude!

YouTube - Mel Gibson phone call rant to Old Spice...
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Hilarious!

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Mel calls Arnold...

YouTube - Mel Gibson calls Arnold Schwarzenegger

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HeySal

16 years ago

I still think that something is very wrong with this stuff. Now she's claiming he hit the kid, too - that wasn't mentioned before. If he had hit the kid she wouldn't have been on about him hitting HER and not mentioning the kid before. That would have been a major theme. She is also way too calm. It seems to be an artificial exchange. Also - what are these tapes doing online instead of sealed in a court room?

As far as the BJ - he seems to have expected it. It sounds like he's mad because she's reneged on a promise - a you do this and I'll give you that type of deal. It doesn't just sound like he was dictating. This is not a conversation - it's an excerpt. What did this woman promise and in what circumstance for him to be ranting about not getting something he was "supposed" to get?

Also - if he's so wrong and she's so right.........why is it HIM that has the restraining order? Why is she even on the phone with him if there's a restraining order?

Why are we only getting clips of the calls and not the WHOLE replay if she is so innocent?

Mel's wife said he never struck her. Why would he hit this woman if he never struck his wife? Abusive guys don't just hit one women. What did she do that put him over the edge? Everyone has a breaking point. She obviously hit it awhile back or there would have been no restraining order. Considering he has a few problems in the first place she was probably able to work him for it.

Ya know - if a woman leaves a man for mental abuse, no matter how destitute she is, she can get no help from the state -- but if she can work him until he swings at her, she will have a home, car, food, etc. I wonder if it's the same with a lot of cash settlement in court?

Did Mel confess to hitting her on any of these tapes? I can't remember hearing him say he did it. I heard a lot of anger, but don't remember a confession.

I think these tapes are really Mel - but they don't fit normal frame insert conversational patterns at all. They seem to be cut and paste at the worst - carefully chosen excerpts of the real conversation at best. It sounds like a fabricated exchange to me. I don't just think they are incomplete - I think they are cut and paste.................which would be a normal thing to have floating around the Internet instead of in a court of law...ya think?

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I still think that something is very wrong with this stuff. Now she's claiming he hit the kid, too - that wasn't mentioned before. If he had hit the kid she wouldn't have been on about him hitting HER and not mentioning the kid before. That would have been a major theme. She is also way too calm. It seems to be an artificial exchange. Also - what are these tapes doing online instead of sealed in a court room?

Well, one magazine said, in part:

Media analyst and Hollywood observer James Hirsen tells Newsmax that the Mel Gibson heard ranting and raving against his ex-girlfriend on a series of audiotapes “is not the person that I know.”
...
Grigorieva claims Gibson struck her and damaged two teeth, but the TMZ website reports that her dentist says there is no evidence of a blow to the mouth.

“The dentist who did the repair took a picture and told that same website, TMZ, that he thought the picture was, quote, 100 percent fake, that the picture had been tampered with,” Hirsen says.

Also, forensic experts hired to examine the tapes claim they have been edited, with pieces strung together, Hirsen notes. He adds that if the picture or tapes were doctored, that would allow Gibson’s lawyers to argue that those items of evidence would be inadmissible both in the custody case and a potential criminal charge against Gibson.

Asked if it is known for sure who has been leaking tapes, Hirsen responds: “Oksana says she did not leak them, and that leads to the question, if that’s true, who did?

“It would seem clear that somebody in her camp, whether it’s a lawyer or publicist, gave it to this website RadarOnline.”

HERE is the article. YEAH, I know some will scream conservative, but conservatives do NOT condone racism as a group, no matter WHAT you may have been told or think.... http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/h...7/20/id/365176

Originally Posted by HeySal

As far as the BJ - he seems to have expected it. It sounds like he's mad because she's reneged on a promise - a you do this and I'll give you that type of deal. It doesn't just sound like he was dictating. This is not a conversation - it's an excerpt. What did this woman promise and in what circumstance for him to be ranting about not getting something he was "supposed" to get?

Also - if he's so wrong and she's so right.........why is it HIM that has the restraining order? Why is she even on the phone with him if there's a restraining order?

Why are we only getting clips of the calls and not the WHOLE replay if she is so innocent?

Mel's wife said he never struck her. Why would he hit this woman if he never struck his wife? Abusive guys don't just hit one women. What did she do that put him over the edge? Everyone has a breaking point. She obviously hit it awhile back or there would have been no restraining order. Considering he has a few problems in the first place she was probably able to work him for it.

Ya know - if a woman leaves a man for mental abuse, no matter how destitute she is, she can get no help from the state -- but if she can work him until he swings at her, she will have a home, car, food, etc. I wonder if it's the same with a lot of cash settlement in court?

Did Mel confess to hitting her on any of these tapes? I can't remember hearing him say he did it. I heard a lot of anger, but don't remember a confession.

I think these tapes are really Mel - but they don't fit normal frame insert conversational patterns at all. They seem to be cut and paste at the worst - carefully chosen excerpts of the real conversation at best. It sounds like a fabricated exchange to me. I don't just think they are incomplete - I think they are cut and paste.................which would be a normal thing to have floating around the Internet instead of in a court of law...ya think?

Frankly, I think more and more these are like the photoshop efforts by BP.

And I don't usually listen to a person like Whoopi. But if someone like HER says a white is NOT racist towards blacks, he is either doing a LOT for her(DOUBTFUL considering that she HAS been quite successful), or he has REALLY been nice to all the blacks, so far as she knows, and is a friend. On the later, she can at least be confident about her and her kids. So I would say that should carry some weight! AND, bear in mind that she is putting her REPUTATION on the line with much of her BASE!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

At least Sal can admit the voice on the recording is Mel Gibson unlike someone I know.

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seasoned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

At least Sal can admit the voice on the recording is Mel Gibson unlike someone I know.

HEY, I can't "ADMIT" it, since I DON'T KNOW! YOU DON'T EITHER! I DID say that the VOICE is possibly his, and the tapes may be altered. There IS a disconnect between her and him, so it does NOT sound right!

I said that from the getgo! HEY, I DON'T know mel, and I may PROBABLY NEVER see him in person. To the best of my knowledge, nobody I know knows mel. I have NO interest one way or the other. YOU seem to imply I have an agenda. I DON'T!

Steve
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

I really don't give a _______ either.

What type of agenda could I seriously believe you have in this situation?

None.

But...

You seem to be the only person I know of that is not able to say that it is Mel on those recordings.

Anyone else????

Mel's wife could have easily dismissed the recordings as not Mel's voice but did she???

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Jimmy Kimmel piles on...

YouTube - Mel Gibson Says the Darndest Things

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stephie614

16 years ago

Always liked Mel Gibson - very talanted. Sorry to hear about his situation. Question... Are the tapes really real? If she realy loves him and wants to work things out, why is she taping personal conversations and releasing them to everyone? No doubt he is upset...however, it does take two to tangle. Two sides to every story as they say. Has anyone even tried to listen to Mr Gibson's side? What is her agenda? Seems to me I heard some "veiled threats" in her calm and cool replies to his ranting. I stopped listening at that point. Unfortunately, when things go bad in a relationship like this, somehow both are to blame.

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TimPhelan 16 years ago

New photos out of bruising Oksana got to her eye:

Browse images: Oksana's Bruised Face | RadarOnline.com
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Chris Worner

16 years ago

Mike, I may be young, but I have met more than my share of manipulative women, including Russian women, my mother was exceptionally manipulative towards my father, and Oksana reminds me disturbingly of her.

Tim, you are a nice guy, but you need to grow a spine, you seem to be under the illusion that women are innocent little creatures and should be treated like delicate little flowers, also judging by your posts in my thread about that 17 yr old woman who attacked that police officer and got punched in the face as a result.

92% of all divorces are initiated by women, and 99% of the time it is because of money, if you think that woman and women in general aren't motivated by money then you really need to pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes.

Having said that, if Mel did hit her, he is an idiot for responding to her BS, he should have turfed her ass to the curb if she frequently flaked on engagements, events, and was in general, very disrespectful, which is the impression I get from listening to some of his rants, which is what he is so incensed about.

As you can see, I do not see Oksana as a victim here, it takes two to tango, and so far, her actions do not mirror those of a woman scared for her life, or that of their child, including the recording and release of those tapes.

And since we are only listening to edited tapes, we are not hearing the entire phone call from start to finish, I would also be very careful about believing anything she says, let alone the media which makes it's money through sensationalizing events.

Respectfully
Chris

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

I need to grow a spine? Why? Because I don't like to see women abused? What complete and utter BS!

I think you must have a hatred of women. Why else would you say something as ridiculous as "92% of all divorces are inititiated by women, and 99% of the time it is because of money, if you think that woman and women in general aren't motivated by money"? You like making up your own statistics don't you?

Seems to me you have a classic case of misogyny. Not sure why, maybe you should see a psychiatrist to figure it out, but don't accuse me of not having a spine because I don't hate women.

Originally Posted by skyfox7

Tim, you are a nice guy, but you need to grow a spine, you seem to be under the illusion that women are innocent little creatures and should be treated like delicate little flowers, also judging by your posts in my thread about that 17 yr old woman who attacked that police officer and got punched in the face as a result.

92% of all divorces are initiated by women, and 99% of the time it is because of money, if you think that woman and women in general aren't motivated by money then you really need to pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I need to grow a spine? Why? Because I don't like to see women abused? What complete and utter BS!

I think you must have a hatred of women. Why else would you say something as ridiculous as "92% of all divorces are inititiated by women, and 99% of the time it is because of money, if you think that woman and women in general aren't motivated by money"? You like making up your own statistics don't you?

Seems to me you have a classic case of misogyny. Not sure why, maybe you should see a psychiatrist to figure it out, but don't accuse me of not having a spine because I don't hate women.

I DOUBT he is saying one should be a misogynist. He is simply saying that the old statement about little girls being made of "sugar and spice and everything nice" isn't always true. So don't assume the woman is ALWAYS innocent.

As for the 92%? Who knows? It IS high! And Men will generally NOT want to divorce, because they often PAY for it. As for the 99%? Who knows, but it IS high.

And the 92% IS of the like 50%(that divorce), so it is only 46% of the whole.

Steve

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Does this stuff you write actually make sense in your head?

I didn't say he was saying one should be a misogynist. He didn't mention anything about sugar and spice. I don't assume the woman is always innocent. And the last line doesn't make any sense at all: "the 92% IS of the like 50%(that divorce), so it is only 46% of the whole." Huh???

Originally Posted by seasoned

I DOUBT he is saying one should be a misogynist. He is simply saying that the old statement about little girls being made of "sugar and spice and everything nice" isn't always true. So don't assume the woman is ALWAYS innocent.

As for the 92%? Who knows? It IS high! And Men will generally NOT want to divorce, because they often PAY for it. As for the 99%? Who knows, but it IS high.

And the 92% IS of the like 50%(that divorce), so it is only 46% of the whole.

Steve

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Chris Worner

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I need to grow a spine? Why? Because I don't like to see women abused? What complete and utter BS!

Yes you do, you seem to have massive knight in shining armor/good guy syndrome.

You also seem determined to prove Gibson is guilty looking at all your posts in this thread.

I think you must have a hatred of women. Why else would you say something as ridiculous as "92% of all divorces are inititiated by women, and 99% of the time it is because of money, if you think that woman and women in general aren't motivated by money"? You like making up your own statistics don't you?

Here is a link for you, you may well be in for a little bit of a shock: Discovery Health "Debunking 10 Divorce Myths"

I will grant you that the actual divorce rate initiated by women is at 70-75% although that really doesn't take away from my point, depending on what studies the stats are based on.

Seems to me you have a classic case of misogyny. Not sure why, maybe you should see a psychiatrist to figure it out, but don't accuse me of not having a spine because I don't hate women.

Interesting, believing in cause and effect as well as accountability for your actions regardless of whether you are male or female makes me a misogynist? (LMAO)

I don't remember ever saying women should be put in chains and forced to act like slaves, nor do I remember saying that women can't run business's or saying anything along the lines of women are good for nothing in general.

Interestingly, you completely ignored the part where I mentioned that IF Mel did hit her her he is an idiot.(not really the words of a person who hates women, wouldn't I be applauding him for doing so?)

You seem to be trying to project your own insecurities on me and putting words into my mouth, as evidenced by your assumptions and apparent need to prove Gibson is guilty and a really bad person, and that Oksana woman is completely innocent and has played no part in this.

As seasoned put it, I don't view women as sugar and spice and everything nice.

Respectfully
Chris

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TimPhelan 16 years ago

Quoting "seasoned" is like quoting the local junk yard dog. I can't take anything you say seriously after that.

Originally Posted by skyfox7

As seasoned put it, I don't view women as sugar and spice and everything nice.
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- seasoned 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  Quoting "seasoned" is like quoting the local junk yard dog. I can't take anything you say seriously after that.
  
  That's ok, I felt the same about you almost from the first post I saw from you.
  
  Steve
  
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seasoned

16 years ago

You know, one of my favorite movies is clambake. Some have called itt silly, etc... Anyway, the movie STARTS with TWO people:

1. A beachbum, probably nice, but NOBODY would even tallk to him. He drives a motorcycle.
2. A nice smart guy that would love to get married, but knows that MOST people don't really love HIM. You see, he is FILTHY RICH, and drives a beautiful sportscar. Women FLOCK to him.

Well, they meet up and decide to SWITCH PLACES! IT WORKS! In the end, the rich guy is driving this woman away in his friend's car. She has decided she likes HIM better than his friend, who she tried to get close to, and laments about how they will make it SOMEHOW. She thinks they are poor.
So, he points to a little oil field by the side of the road, and says his father gave him one that was larger for his birthday, that the car is his, etc.... She faints.

Anyway, she originally wanted to marry someone FILTHY RICH! That was her ONLY goal. And a lot of women have SAID they feel the SAME way. Oksana COULD have actually gotten together with mel with the intent to do this KNOWING she could make him mad and build a plausible case. You never know. Sometimes I wish there really WERE a lie detector.

Steve

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goalpower

16 years ago

I don't know who's at fault here - BUT these recordings were done on purpose by someone who was baiting another into a fight - my opinion.

Why else would you record them - but to know you'd use them later against someone.

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TimPhelan 16 years ago

Because he's a freaking psycho who has likely behaved like this before. You think that was the first time he screamed at her and threatened her?

Originally Posted by goalpower

Why else would you record them -
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KimW

16 years ago

The recordings are probably illegal.I don't know any state that lets you record conversations legally without both parties consent and knowledge. But I am not going to research it.
I don't know if Gibson hit the woman.He probably did from all indications.
You do the crime you do the time. He should go to court,if found guilty serve the sentence and move on.It's probably a misdemeanor with a max of 1 year in jail and a $2500 fine.And maybe forced anger management classes. None of these people should get special treatment because they can make a good movie,or write a good song or any of that.
To paraphrase former DC mayor Marion Barry, the B**** set him up.
The problem is, once tapes like these are released, legal or not, people form opinions.
The public opinion is tainted.Sides are taken.Such as what happened in this thread.
My opinion is that neither side in this is innocent.
Is that Mel on the tape? Sure sounds like it to me. Because he is ontrontrollably angry does that make him a woman beater? No.
Do some woman lie and manipulate? Yes. Do some woman ask to be hit? Yes. ( Now before everyone gets their panties in a wad, I don't mean deserve to be hit, I mean literally ask to be hit. Many many years ago I was in a relationship where there would be times when the other person would be screaming, come on hit me,hit me! I never did. Once they hit the bedroom door with something, I don't remember what, and it put a crack that runs the length of the door. Then they said they were going to call the police and say I did it attacking them.)
When tempers run high,common sense leaves the room.
What should be happening is that the system does its job and the case is closed and the world moves on.
I find is sad that so many normally intelligent people are giving this topic so much undeserved attention.

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seasoned

16 years ago

Kimw,

Supposedly, California allows such tapes to be used in evidence for a trial. TECHNICALLY, I don't believe THESE tapes are legal because they are after the fact and open to interpretation. ALSO, technically they are against FEDERAL law because the jury pool has been polluted. ALSO, to prevent the pollution, they were under COURT SEAL, so releasing them is at the very LEAST contempt of court. Worst case it is obstruction of justice and probably a few related things.

BTW with the person that hit the door? It is possible that there could be prints, injuries, and depressions that will prove you didn't do it. At the very least, if you meant to hit her, left that, and didn't hit her, she would have a hard time proving it. Of course, if you were FAMOUS, you could bet that "public opinion" would HANG YOU!

But YEAH! People can be tricky AND even with ALL the talk about women can't do this that etc... throughout history, one thing is consistant. They have NEVER said that women couldn't scheme. Heck, The Bible speaks of that on Isaac and Jacob!

Steve

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Boy, this thread gets more and more entertaining by the day.

Thanks for the smiles

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KimW

16 years ago

I agree Mike, as I said a few posts ago:
"I find is sad that so many normally intelligent people are giving this topic so much undeserved attention."

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I agree Mike, as I said a few posts ago:
"I find is sad that so many normally intelligent people are giving this topic so much undeserved attention."

I think after a while it comes down to having to be right, prove a point, have a last word, clarify some useless point, etc. I am NOT saying that about anyone in particular, especially considering I have had to include myself in that description at times.

After a particular thread that I got heated in not too long ago, I decided for me that it's just not all that important anymore. These issues are sometimes fun to debate, but at the end of the day they're not worth losing sleep over (especially when it's on a forum). I'll inject my viewpoint, try (and usually fail) to be humorous and then move on.

There are way too many personalities and viewpoints that it gets to the point where the conversation becomes noise.

Not on every thread. But quite a few.

Of course, all of this is strictly my opinion so if anyone wants to tell me I am wrong, well, that would be your opinion

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Karen Blundell

16 years ago

Mel Gibson has a sickness, he's an alcoholic. He has lots of deep-seated rage. I too feel sorry for him and I can't stand how people love to tear down those who have been successful and rich because it somehow makes them feel better about themselves.

Mel is human. We are all human and we all have dark sides.
We live in a society that won't mind it's own f***ing business.

Fix your own lives and stop judging what other people do, cause maybe, just maybe, someone is judging you...

just sayin'...:rolleyes:

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

We already can't talk about politics and religion. So now we can't even talk about celebrities who screw up and go bat sh1t crazy? Because oh, we are all so above it?! I find it an interesting subject and apparently others do also. If you don't, then don't click on the thread. Pretty simple.

By the way, I've always used to like Mel Gibson and his movies. I even liked the one that was released after his DUI in Malibu. I get no pleasure in seeing rich and successful people fall. There's no jealousy involved, tearing down Mel to make myself feel better. That's BS. Mel is tearing himself down.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

We already can't talk about politics and religion. So now we can't even talk about celebrities who screw up and go bat sh1t crazy? Because oh, we are all so above it?! I find it an interesting subject and apparently others do also. If you don't, then don't click on the thread. Pretty simple.

By the way, I've always liked Mel Gibson and his movies. I even liked the one that was released after his DUI in Malibu. I get no pleasure in seeing rich and successful people fall. There's no jealousy involved, tearing down Mel to make myself feel better. That's BS. Mel is tearing himself down.

Ok, maybe we should start a thread:

Why do people give such a rat's patootie about the misery of celebrities when their own neighbors could be going through something 100 times worse?

Ok, so that's a bit extreme

I guess, Tim, that the fixation on why people give stuff like this so much attention is as interesting to some as the fixation itself is to others... who knows? Maybe it's not so much the thread, as the fact that we're 4 pages and 153 posts into it (and yes, I know I contributed).

I love many Mel Gibson movies. Still do in fact. Sorry, but I won't stop watching them over this. Everyone has skeletons to some degree.

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Karen Blundell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

We already can't talk about politics and religion. So now we can't even talk about celebrities who screw up and go bat sh1t crazy? Because oh, we are all so above it?! I find it an interesting subject and apparently others do also. If you don't, then don't click on the thread. Pretty simple.

By the way, I've always liked Mel Gibson and his movies. I even liked the one that was released after his DUI in Malibu. I get no pleasure in seeing rich and successful people fall. There's no jealousy involved, tearing down Mel to make myself feel better. That's BS. Mel is tearing himself down.

But you really have no real proof that Mel did these things...you are going by hearsay...those tapes, and the words of, what, one website, that can only be classed as a modern-day Web 2.0 RAG
Look, I'm not saying Mel is an angel...clearly he is not. But it takes two to make or break a relationship, and I'm willing to bet that Oksana is far from innocent in this whole ordeal.

Tim, don't take my comment so personally. Of course you are free to discuss this, but what I meant by my comment is that many people in general are so concerned about what other people are doing, and pass sometimes unfair judgements, and yet these same people who are making these unfair judgements are more than likely hiding their own skeletons in their closet.

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

Hi Karen. Love your new avatar by the way. I respectfully disagree that this is hearsay though. It seems to be direct conversations that were recorded. Sure, we don't know the whole story behind the relationship, but what we do know so far is that Mel insulted blacks by calling them "n*ggers" who might rape his girlfriend because of the way she was dressed, insulted hispanics by calling them "wetbacks", admitted to hitting his girlfriend while she held his infant child and threatened to kill her. This is from Mel's own mouth. There's much more also. Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another concerning some event.

I didn't take what you said personally. I just am confused why so many people are feeling sorry for Mel, while he is clearly not the victim here and also why so many are so quick to jump on Oksana as being the villain.

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

But you really have no real proof that Mel did these things...you are going by hearsay...those tapes, and the words of, what, one website, that can only be classed as a modern-day Web 2.0 RAG
Look, I'm not saying Mel is an angel...clearly he is not. But it takes two to make or break a relationship, and I'm willing to bet that Oksana is far from innocent in this whole ordeal.

Tim, don't take my comment so personally. Of course you are free to discuss this, but what I meant by my comment is that many people in general are so concerned about what other people are doing, and pass sometimes unfair judgements, and yet these same people who are making these unfair judgements are more than likely hiding their own skeletons in their closet.

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Karen Blundell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Hi Karen. Love your new avatar by the way. I respectfully disagree that this is hearsay though. It seems to be direct conversations that were recorded. Sure, we don't know the whole story behind the relationship, but what we do know so far is that Mel insulted blacks by calling them "n*ggers" who might rape his girlfriend because of the way she was dressed, insulted hispanics by calling them "wetbacks", admitted to hitting his girlfriend while she held his infant child and threatened to kill her. This is from Mel's own mouth. There's much more also. Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another concerning some event.

I didn't take what you said personally. I just am confused why so many people are feeling sorry for Mel, while he is clearly not the victim here and also why so many are so quick to jump on Oksana as being the villain.

Tim, I can't stand racial slurs...they are mean, they are hurtful, and Mel should know better. But, like I said, though Mel is far from an angel, I really believe it does take 2 people to make or break a relationship and we really don't know what went on behind closed doors, do we?

For the record, I'm NOT taking sides. Do I love Mel's acting? Hell, yeah. Braveheart is one of my all-time fave movies. Do I condone Mel's behavior? Hell, no! But I'm smart enough to know that there's more here than meets the eye, and I'm not convinced that Oksana is the completely helpless victim that she wants the world to think she is.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

Tim, I can't stand racial slurs...they are mean, they are hurtful, and Mel should know better. But, like I said, though Mel is far from an angel, I really believe it does take 2 people to make or break a relationship and we really don't know what went on behind closed doors, do we?

For the record, I'm NOT taking sides. Do I love Mel's acting? Hell, yeah. Braveheart is one of my all-time fave movies. Do I condone Mel's behavior? Hell, no! But I'm smart enough to know that there's more here than meets the eye, and I'm not convinced that Oksana is the completely helpless victim that she wants the world to think she is.

This is basically what I was trying to say before I was told I should leave my personal stories off the forum (no, NOT by Tim). I was married to a controlling, manipulative person who always played the victim in public - even if she had to make things up along the way (which mine did, constantly).

That's why I think there's more to the story.

Like you said though, I agree that Mel SHOULD know better and yes, even get help.

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

I don't know either. I haven't seen any real evidence either way regarding her. Perhaps it will all come out some day. Perhaps not.

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

I'm not convinced that Oksana is the completely helpless victim that she wants the world to think she is.

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MikeAmbrosio

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I don't know either. I haven't seen any real evidence either way regarding her. Perhaps it will all come out some day. Perhaps not.

Therein lies the "twisted genius" of someone like I described. They are diligent at hiding stuff. In fact, it's critical to their survival.

You know what finally convinced some people (including my ex's own family) that she was like I described? When she started doing the exact same things to her 2nd husband that she did to me, and told all the same lies about him that she did about me. And yes, she's divorced again. A bad one (worse than ours).

Seems the years between him and me were enough that she forgot all the BS she told about me... caught in her own web of lies.

I also have no idea if what I am saying applies to Oksana. But I DO see some similarities in behaviors. And this is why "evidence", or lack thereof, is often not the entire story.

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TimPhelan

16 years ago

I'm sorry you had to deal with someone like that Mike. Sounds terrible. However, from what I have read Oksana shows no signs of being anything remotely like that. She's had several relationships and may at the worst be called an opportunist, although she and her friends deny this. She was with Tim Dalton for about 10 years and they remained friends after they broke up. He is supporting her custody battle and doesn't want Mel anywhere near his son.

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Therein lies the "twisted genius" of someone like I described. They are diligent at hiding stuff. In fact, it's critical to their survival.

You know what finally convinced some people (including my ex's own family) that she was like I described? When she started doing the exact same things to her 2nd husband that she did to me, and told all the same lies about him that she did about me. And yes, she's divorced again. A bad one (worse than ours).

Seems the years between him and me were enough that she forgot all the BS she told about me... caught in her own web of lies.

I also have no idea if what I am saying applies to Oksana. But I DO see some similarities in behaviors. And this is why "evidence", or lack thereof, is often not the entire story.

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Karen Blundell

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Therein lies the "twisted genius" of someone like I described. They are diligent at hiding stuff. In fact, it's critical to their survival.

You know what finally convinced some people (including my ex's own family) that she was like I described? When she started doing the exact same things to her 2nd husband that she did to me, and told all the same lies about him that she did about me. And yes, she's divorced again. A bad one (worse than ours).

Seems the years between him and me were enough that she forgot all the BS she told about me... caught in her own web of lies.

I also have no idea if what I am saying applies to Oksana. But I DO see some similarities in behaviors. And this is why "evidence", or lack thereof, is often not the entire story.

I've seen people like that. In fact, I have an ex whom everyone adores. They think he's the nicest person in the world. And he can be. But he has a very mean streak which comes out when he's been drinking. Oh wait, just like Mel Gibson! But friends and family thought I was exaggerating about my ex's behaviour, and it wasn't until my son confirmed some of the instances of abusive behaviour that they believed me, which was really hurtful to me.

So again, it's back to not really knowing the facts because we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. When it comes to news about celebrities, I tend to take most of it with a grain of salt.

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KimW

16 years ago

Dang Karen, you put so much more elegant than I did.........

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KimW

16 years ago

I'm actually having a Braveheart craving............

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TimPhelan 16 years ago

If you haven't seen Apocalypto, check it out. Very intense movie set during the Mayan period.

Originally Posted by KimW

I'm actually having a Braveheart craving............
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KimW

16 years ago

No I haven't.That's one of his two that are not in english, correct? (The other being the religious one I cannot remember the name of at the moment).

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MikeAmbrosio 16 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

If you haven't seen Apocalypto, check it out. Very intense movie set during the Mayan period.

Originally Posted by KimW

No I haven't.That's one of his two that are not in english, correct? (The other being the religious one I cannot remember the name of at the moment).

It's a very good movie. Intense is a great word to describe it.
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TimPhelan 16 years ago

When I saw it there were subtitles.

Originally Posted by KimW

No I haven't.That's one of his two that are not in english, correct? (The other being the religious one I cannot remember the name of at the moment).
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KimW

16 years ago

I will check it out.I always love good movie recommendations!

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Profit123

16 years ago

Awesome tapes if they are for real. He had a real rough upbringing that bent him badly. Condone that kind of behavior, nope. Understand it, yep. Let's wait until all the facts are in, it ain't over 'til it's over.

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PeterDunin

16 years ago

He always seemed such a nice man!

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Mel involved in car crash.

No one hurt except car.

Here's the story...

http://www.tmz.com/2010/08/16/-gibso...e-car-accident

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Chris1203

16 years ago

Those tapes are very disturbing. I think that Mel Gibson is a very troubled man and has been teetering on the edge for quite some time. What a shame!

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abednego 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris1203

Those tapes are very disturbing. I think that Mel Gibson is a very troubled man and has been teetering on the edge for quite some time. What a shame!

I think its been a problem for a long long time now.

From what I understand... wasn't Mel's father a Holocaust denier?
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sloanjim

16 years ago

Go Mel....you'll always be Mad max to me!

Maybe he was right?

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sloanjim

16 years ago

where can i listen to it?

Those tapes are very disturbing. I think that Mel Gibson is a very troubled man and has been teetering on the edge for quite some time. What a shame

!

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rjaf

16 years ago

It's always unsettling to see a big star turn out to be a scum bag. But that's all Gibson is.

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jgand

16 years ago

Mel Gibson is so angry through out the recordings, he stops and starts panting. He clearly knew what he was saying. It is just unbelievable.

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TotalOperator

16 years ago

Hilarious! lol, what an idiot

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glassytaz

16 years ago

He should have known better, temper got the best of him. I like his older movies...Mad Max forever!

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KimW

16 years ago

I actually hate to contribute more to this thread, and I must say beforehand I have not watched or listened to these videos, but the very idea that I'm getting from them is weird...........

Billy Jack, Delores Taylor, Tom Laughlin - the Official Website.

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The 13th Warrior 16 years ago

She better get 2 Tomahawks for good measure, you know, just in case.

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.
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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Mel was referenced in a move by the Wayans Brothers.

The movie was named Dance Flick and it was a spoof on the recent movies revolving around dance.

Anyways...

someone had to take a Breathalyzer test and Mel was listed as the 1st level of serious drunkenness - according to the Breathalyzer machine.

1st level = Mel Gibson

2nd level = Nick Nolte

3rd level = Kiefer Sutherland

4th & highest level of drunkenness =

Amy Winehouse.

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Mel was invoked at the Emmy Awards last night...

From the news story...

One of the funniest moments of the 62nd Primetime Emmy Awards last night involved none other than the hilarious Ricky Gervais.

When he came out to present two variety awards, Gervais didn't leave the stage until...

... he mocked Mel Gibson and gave half the people in the two front rows a tall, cold one.

After complaining that they don't serve alcohol at the Emmys like they do at the Golden Globe Awards, Gervais joked that there weren't any erratic actors present who would get too drunk, mentioning Russell Crowe and then Mel Gibson.

He stepped back at first, saying he wasn't going to "have a go" at Gibson because he's "been through a lot."

In true comedic fashion, he finished the thought a second later, saying ...

..."Not as much as the Jews though."

He then summoned three waiters to bring beers to those in the first two rows, adding "'The Office' is in syndication. Those are on me."

Here's the short video...

Ricky Gervais Mocks Mel Gibson, Hands Out Beer At The Emmys (VIDEO)

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Jodie Foster Stands By Mel Gibson:

They've done a movie together and the release date has not been set.

Story here...

Jodie Foster Stands By Mel Gibson

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seasoned

16 years ago

MAN, if I EVER have a situation like this, I would want to call oksana's publicist so I can be sure to NOT use their photographer! I just looked at the 4 pictures they bragged about, at WORLD EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS: Bruised & Battered Oksana Grigorieva After Brawl With Mel Gibson | Radar Online They are all essentially the same! Probably of the SAME incident! If I were the judge I would THROW THEM OUT! They are not clear enough to make it clear that it is even due to being hit by someone, let alone enough to show intent, or a pattern. And the picture at Browse images: Oksana's Bruised Face | Radar Online seems to have a pattern that makes one DOUBT she was hit by anyones fist. It is more consistant with a nasty fall or some such. Is that IT, 4 photos, that are essentially the same!?!?!?

These pictures are crucial evidence in the investigation against Gibson on domestic violence charges and provide strong support for Oksana’s accusations that Mel punched her as they argued at his home on January 6

Oksana told authorities she was holding her baby Lucia when Mel struck her in the mouth and the head, near the left temple.
...
The bruising extends from below Oksana’s left eye to her forehead. The area around her left eye appears to be swollen.

These never-before-seen pictures are key components of three separate investigations, RadarOnline.com has confirmed.

WOW, he must have a VERY accurate punch to have all three hits line up so well, or he has a LARGE fist. Funny, he looks normal in the movies!

How do we know she didn't just do this to herself, or have an accident and blame it on him?

Besides, I've seen black eyes before, and had them myself. It is interesting that only one photo starts to show it. Why are they cropped, or why did they narrow the area so much. Only one really starts to even show her face!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

16 years ago

Oksana Grigorieva:

I Thought Mel Gibson Would Kill Me.

Story here...

Oksana Grigorieva: I Thought Mel Gibson Would Kill Me - Mel Gibson, Oksana Grigorieva : People.com

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HeySal

16 years ago

1. I used to do makeup for a Merle Norman Studio. Oksana has makeup on in her picture to make the bruise look more severe than it is. Check out where her eye glistens white - it also looks like the red is blended in and not quite the right color - close but no cookies.

2. No proof, but enough to make one wonder - Mel is the one who supposedly had the restraining order. If she was violating that order he might have had just cause to take a swing at her. If she was holding his son, he had some really crap judgment about when to take that swing. Either that or he might have been making a point that she couldn't use the kid against him any longer. It's really possible that none of this conjecture is the true circumstance, but worth considering.

3. She has gold digger tendencies and anyone whose been used knows that such use is its own form of abuse and can make someone crazy. Not a justification - just a fact. We used to see gold-diggers at the crisis center all the time. They push a guy's buttons until he can no longer control himself, and when he finally cracks, they take him for the ride of his life.

4. Mel has a booze problem and nobody can deny that one. It's caused him more problems than one person can usually handle without going over the edge. I don't consider "I was too drunk to know what I was doing" a valid excuse for anything. When situations are getting as intense as they obviously were - no matter who was causing what - the last thing a person should be doing is getting hammered.

5. This whole thing is going on in phone conversations - yet I have seen no airing of any judgments or police reports. It seems odd to me that instead of calling police when she was hit that she would just go release a lot of unsubstantiated phone conversations. How can we tell where clips were taken from the tapes? We have no way of knowing the full scales of the taped conversations.

6. Mel's ex wife says he is non-violent. She never said he didn't have plenty of issues or that he didn't do a lot of real low-life types of things.......but she did say he was non-violent and they were together a long time and she had plenty of reason to say some pretty nasty things about him....and didn't. So if Mel suddenly turned violent on this woman - something provoked it.

7. If all this had come out AFTER a court verdict, I could take it more seriously. Because it has been released without that verdict I see it as nothing but a smear campaign. I can't imagine a lawyer condoning this form of slaughter if there were a court case coming up. IF there is no court case coming up - why not? This is the real issue that makes me think we're talking about a smear campaign. If she actually had a case, we wouldn't have heard two whits about this until after the court hearing. I want to know more about those facts. Mel's drinking and Oksana's publicity stunt have me wondering about the sanity or innocence of either of them. Until I hear about what happened in court every word of this whole situation is just a publicity stunt.

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thunderbird 16 years ago

Mel Gibson is living evidence to support the personality flip-side theory I once came across (or think I did, unless I'm imagining things). It is a theory that for every trait a person has, they also have an an opposite trait. Mel Gibson is a disciplined and creative filmmaker and talented actor, arguably a true genius. The chaos of his life that has spilled into the public sphere would appear to be the opposite of that, and his racist comments show him to be arguably a true moron.
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seasoned

16 years ago

thunderbird,

We may NEVER know exactly WHY these guys have these outbursts. MOST people act really unrestrained when they get drunk. OH YEAH, in the other thread, where I said I was trying to drink 20+ glasses a day, I meant DRINK as in the REAL meaning of drink. For booze? I typically drink about 1 bottle of beer a year! Considering my weight, you can see I won't get drunk. I think heysal is right.

And being stopped late at night by a police officer on a possibly dangerous street, etc... would just add to the anger.

HECK, I have NO reason to be FOR mel, and NO reason to be against women. She is just obviously a gold digger, and I feel she is suspect. I also don't believe that tape is what it is presented to be.

And ask yourself WHY a guy like mel would abuse her, etc... From what I have seen, usually the roid rage, or poor loser types, are about the only ones that do that. I don't think mel fits into EITHER category.

If I were him, and hated her, I would just LEAVE! I mean she isn't the prettiest or nicest woman in the world, and he is FAR from poor! As for the child, I would simply ask for custody. Frankly, I DOUBT she is a good influence! Having left her, she might goad me because she would see me as a meal ticket and stepping stone, etc... And she MIGHT try what oksana is trying!

Steve

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thunderbird 16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

<snip>She is just obviously a gold digger, and I feel she is suspect. I also don't believe that tape is what it is presented to be.<snip>

However the tape was made, he still said those things. Maybe it was it was an emotional and irrational outburst not necessarily representative of his usual attitude or state of mind, but he still said those things and it'll follow him for years to come (just as Rick Sanchez will have his foolish comments following him).
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TimPhelan 16 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

She is just obviously a gold digger, and I feel she is suspect.

Why is it obvious and why is she suspect?

I also don't believe that tape is what it is presented to be.

Why not?

And ask yourself WHY a guy like mel would abuse her, etc...

"A guy like Mel..." Do you know Mel? What do you mean by a "guy like Mel"? Isn't that just your own perception of what kind of guy Mel is? Or are you simply talking about a guy having more money?

From what I have seen, usually the roid rage, or poor loser types, are about the only ones that do that.

So only poor people and those on roids abuse their women? :-)

As for the child, I would simply ask for custody. Frankly, I DOUBT she is a good influence!

Well, I think for some reason, I can't quite figure out just why, but Mel is the one who looks like the bad influence at this point. That's just from what is available in the media. Maybe you have a closer knowledge, inside information and/or relationship with this situation. If so, please let us know.
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dagaul101

16 years ago

Mel is just another human like any other, but if there was a movie in the pipeline when the tape leaked out, then it would make sense

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jooowell

Banned 16 years ago

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thunderbird

16 years ago

Originally Posted by jooowell

Mel was a complete outcast for a lot of his activity - he was austere and agee abominably in his adolescence and for some acumen his parents aloof alone him off. I can't bethink if they died or aloof ditched the abnormal little guy.all-good-battery.com A priest took him in and assuredly got the funds to about-face him into the attractive amount we see today -- got to be a lot of abundant accoutrements in that mix. The sad allotment is that I anticipate he wants actual abundant to be a acceptable person. I feel actual apologetic for that man.c

This sure looks like bot-harvested syntax.

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seasoned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

This sure looks like bot-harvested syntax.

One person here, who I am sure DIDN'T do this, said a myth that, IF SPUN, could look like "A priest took him in and assuredly got the funds to about-face him into the attractive amount we see today -- got to be a lot of abundant accoutrements in that mix. "! So YEAH, someone went to the same source, got the myth and spun at least part of it to do this. It is just some idiot trying to spam.

LUCKILY, THEIR LINK DOESN'T WORK! I reported it, and am sure others have.

Steve
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Mel Gibson tapes

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