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Obama Won!

by Michael Mayo
282 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
It's True!

History has been made.

I'm Just Reporting it, Don't blame or thank me!

Have a Great Day/Night!
Michael
  • Profile picture of the author Andy Money
    Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Celebrate, celebrate
    Woo!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    I didn't know Canadians were so interested lol
    Do you even know how many calories champagne has?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      I didn't know Canadians were so interested lol
      Do you even know how many calories champagne has?
      1) It might sound weird, but Canadians were much more excited about the US elections than about their own elections (just a few weeks ago).

      2) Frankly, I don't give a damn about the calories at this moment :p
      This calls for a celebration! I think I might go downtown and join the celebration... (since most people here were for Obama)
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    Congrats to Obama.

    I wish him well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Christie Love
    Whhhhooooo HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    This is a very exciting day in US history. Lets hope that we can all come together and unite as a country to get us out of these tough times.

    Lets be patriotic and support our new leader. We are all Americans in this country.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

      This is a very exciting day in US history. Lets hope that we can all come together and unite as a country to get us out of these tough times.

      Lets be patriotic and support our new leader. We are all Americans in this country.
      I think Obama will reach out and try to unite the country Ron. He will have some Republicans in his cabinet I'm sure. One of his heros is Lincoln and this is what Lincoln did. He took his bitter enemies in the Presidential race and put them in his cabinet.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

      This is a very exciting day in US history. Lets hope that we can all come together and unite as a country to get us out of these tough times.

      Lets be patriotic and support our new leader. We are all Americans in this country.
      Yes, just like the Dems were all willing to come together under Bush...
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

        Yes, just like the Dems were all willing to come together under Bush...
        Or how about when Clinton was elected.
        All the Republicans did was look for something to impeach him on for 8 years.
        Talk about sore losers acting like little kids.
        Maybe now after the elections are over both parties could start thinking about working together to help our country instead of the stupid party bickering? Ah what am I thinking that will never happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    Well, I suspected our country was going downhill. Now I'm sure of it
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

      Well, I suspected our country was going downhill. Now I'm sure of it
      Your positive face does not correspond your negative comments
      Stop being a hater. Please.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

      Well, I suspected our country was going downhill. Now I'm sure of it
      A man of faith should try a little harder to have something descent to say...

      Your guy lost! Big deal!

      Someone had to win...

      Anyhow, you are now an Obama follower, whether you like it or not.

      This victory will not prevent you from being a positive influence in your community, nor will it have an effect on the great person that I'm sure you are.

      I understand that you may think that the country is going downhill. But, some people think that the U.S. is already at the bottom of the hill.

      You should talk about the wonderful speech that McCain gave... that would be very positive.
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

        A man of faith should try a little harder to have something descent to say...
        Why does everyone feel so free to tell me what I should think/do because I am a man of faith? Most men of faith oppose Obama because most men of faith are against aborting babies in the womb. I can't believe how many Catholics supported Obama.

        And I did have something decent to say, it just didn't agree with what some others were saying. Does that make it indecent?

        I'm sorry, but I will not jump on the Obama bandwagon. This was a huge mistake for our country, and I guess I'll have to live wth it for four years, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it, support his left-wing agenda, etc....
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        • Profile picture of the author 1medic
          I'm from the UK. From my point of view this demonstrates that American is genuinely different and special (as your politicians often say), and can do certain things that no other country can do.

          With Guantamo, torture, etc the US was looking no better than any other country. D'you guys remember when America was the moral leader? It seems you're back again.

          Good luck!

          Luke
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        • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

          Why does everyone feel so free to tell me what I should think/do because I am a man of faith? Most men of faith oppose Obama because most men of faith are against killing babies in the womb.
          I only made mention of you being a man of faith because some of your comments have been extremely negative. It's not a knock on you... just an observation.

          And "baby killing" when you phrase it that way obviously sounds terrible.

          And I here you, I too am against killing babies. But, there is nothing wrong with that choice being left up to the woman.

          If Obama has never performed an abortion, how can he be a "baby killer?" I know it's an semantic argument so I will give it a rest

          And I did have something decent to say, it just didn't agree with what some others were saying. Does that make it indecent?
          I don't think that you are indecent at all. Only some of your comments. But so are mine at times

          I'm sorry, but I will not jump on the Obama bandwagon. This was a huge mistake for our country, and I guess I'll have to live wth it for four years, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it, support his left-wing agenda, etc....
          You don't have to jump on the bandwagon because as an American you and the rest of us are already on it since he is our new president. You are entitled to you opinion, that is true. But so am I. And I think that this is a time to either say something decent or nothing at all.

          And as far as supporting what you believe is a left-wing agenda. It was either that or a right-wing agenda. Someone had to win. It was the left this time.

          If you have taken offense to anything that I have said, I wholeheartedly apologize.

          Take care
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
            Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

            I only made mention of you being a man of faith because some of your comments have been extremely negative. It's not a knock on you... just an observation.

            And "baby killing" when you phrase it that way obviously sounds terrible.

            And I here you, I too am against killing babies. But, there is nothing wrong with that choice being left up to the woman.
            Men of faith have often had negative things to say. Read the Prophets.

            But on the abortion issue -- are you saying it is wrong unless a woman chooses to do it? What if she chooses to do it when her child is two-years-old? Is it still her choice to make? If not, why not?

            Obama has fought for partial-birth abortion. Do you know what that really is? I'll let you look up the details yourself, and then come back here and tell me that he is a good man.

            If Obama has never performed an abortion, how can he be a "baby killer?" I know it's an semantic argument so I will give it a rest
            I didn't say he is a baby killer. But he is for the killing of babies. He might not do it with his own hands, but he supports the "right" to kill them.

            And I think that this is a time to either say something decent or nothing at all.
            I haven't said anything indecent. Are you saying that anything said that is negative about Obama is indecent?
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            • Profile picture of the author KimW
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            • Profile picture of the author deu12000
              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              But on the abortion issue -- are you saying it is wrong unless a woman chooses to do it? What if she chooses to do it when her child is two-years-old? Is it still her choice to make? If not, why not?
              Believe it or not a human woman's pregnancy cycle is only 9 months. How can someone choose to have an abortion after 2 years?
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              • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                Originally Posted by deu12000 View Post

                Believe it or not a human woman's pregnancy cycle is only 9 months. How can someone choose to have an abortion after 2 years?
                My point is that putting a gun to a toddler's head and shooting him/her is no different than killing them in the womb. If it is a woman's "right" to take the life of her child, why doesn't that "right" continue long after the child is born?
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            • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              Men of faith have often had negative things to say. Read the Prophets.

              But on the abortion issue -- are you saying it is wrong unless a woman chooses to do it? What if she chooses to do it when her child is two-years-old? Is it still her choice to make? If not, why not?

              Obama has fought for partial-birth abortion. Do you know what that really is? I'll let you look up the details yourself, and then come back here and tell me that he is a good man.



              I didn't say he is a baby killer. But he is for the killing of babies. He might not do it with his own hands, but he supports the "right" to kill them.



              I haven't said anything indecent. Are you saying that anything said that is negative about Obama is indecent?
              O.K.

              Take care!
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
      Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

      Well, I suspected our country was going downhill. Now I'm sure of it
      I've been suspecting this for the last eight years -- but today I'm proud of my country. It's like a breath of fresh air.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Careful Marc, some alleged "men of faith" are wolves in sheep clothing. Be careful.
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    • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      Careful Marc, some alleged "men of faith" are wolves in sheep clothing. Be careful.
      I'm not in anyway suggesting that Barry is a wolf...

      I was just expressing myself. Hopefully it's not take the wrong way.

      p.s. The words "be careful" are not in my vocabulary
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      • Profile picture of the author Andy Money
        Obama is going to be an incredible president. Haters fall back. Thanks and congrats to all my african-american friends, although this is huge for everyone.
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      • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
        In the thread that temporarily appeared in the main forum, Tush had written:
        America has spoken.. loud and clear

        I just wanted to add it here because I believe that it says a lot, and I couldn't agree more.

        There were also a few nay-sayers bellowing about the "loom and doom" Obama being elected president is going to cause. Every time I read their comments all I kept thinking about was the Law of Attraction--and putting out to and receiving from the Universe what you put out there. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that. WIth that said...

        Tonight we witnessed a tremendously historical moment. I take it as a sign that the Universe has swung the pendulum of change and many positive things are heading our way.
        Namaste
        bj
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      Careful Marc, some alleged "men of faith" are wolves in sheep clothing. Be careful.
      I really don't think that's the case with Barry... Tonight was a big night, and we all know politics brings out the "feisty" in most of us...

      Obama won, quite handily. And good for him - first black President! Actually, that's really a good sign for all of us as a nation.

      Most of you know I wasn't exactly an Obama fan. However, I can say he ran one of the smartest campaigns I've ever seen. He's bright. And he got over one of the biggest obstacles in the Dem party - the Clinton's.

      I really wish him well, and I certainly stand behind him... For all the extreme anti-Obama folks (no, that's not me), give him time to fail. For all the pro-Obama folks, let's see what he can do. I'll be watching... I'm sure you OT'ers will be too.

      Congratulations President Obama!
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Cheers to you Michael. Good going. Sorry if I got too heated in the past. I've turned a new leaf and took an oath to be nice. Or at least try. :-0

        Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

        I really don't think that's the case with Barry... Tonight was a big night, and we all know politics brings out the "feisty" in most of us...

        Obama won, quite handily. And good for him - first black President! Actually, that's really a good sign for all of us as a nation.

        Most of you know I wasn't exactly an Obama fan. However, I can say he ran one of the smartest campaigns I've ever seen. He's bright. And he got over one of the biggest obstacles in the Dem party - the Clinton's.

        I really wish him well, and I certainly stand behind him... For all the extreme anti-Obama folks (no, that's not me), give him time to fail. For all the pro-Obama folks, let's see what he can do. I'll be watching... I'm sure you OT'ers will be too.

        Congratulations President Obama!
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    • Profile picture of the author gareth
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      Careful Marc, some alleged "men of faith" are wolves in sheep clothing. Be careful.

      Eee yuck - tranvestite sheep

      Oh yeah good election - highly entertaining.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Good job Michael...

    I think I mis-judged you...You're what's right with America, even if we disagree.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Good job Michael...

      I think I mis-judged you...You're what's right with America, even if we disagree.
      I think we may have mis-judged each other... Doesn't matter which party we subscribe to, at the end of the day I'm sure we both want what's best for our country.

      Congrats. Your guy beat my guy... this time.
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      • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Good job Michael...

        I think I mis-judged you...You're what's right with America, even if we disagree.
        Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

        I think we may have mis-judged each other... Doesn't matter which party we subscribe to, at the end of the day I'm sure we both want what's best for our country.

        Congrats. Your guy beat my guy... this time.
        You two are gonna make me cry--that will be the 2nd time tonight since I cried at the end of Obama's speech which was incredibly moving (McCain gave a great speech too btw)! What a wonderful example you two are showing!

        Michael, I just have to tell you that I truly appreciate & respect your attitude about all this. I think that what you say about it not mattering what party we belong to, but wanting the best for our country says soooooo much!!

        Now, if only the rest of the country will follow your lead..we're off to a good start!
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        • Profile picture of the author jkt777
          I did not vote for Obama but he has my respect for a great campaign.
          I have many concerns but he will be my President for at least four years and I hope he accomplishes some great things.

          With that being said I think he will be good for Imers because his tax policy will put a lot of people out of work. He wants to raise taxes on the people we depend on to create jobs.

          About 70% of American jobs are created by small business owners and they are going to be hit hardest.

          According to this article on the wsj the businesses that employ the most people could see their tax rate go from 33% to 45%. They will have to cut expenses somewhere and many will start by laying off employees. A lot of them will be looking for business opportunities.

          Joel
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
          Originally Posted by lilmechante01 View Post

          Michael, I just have to tell you that I truly appreciate & respect your attitude about all this. I think that what you say about it not mattering what party we belong to, but wanting the best for our country says soooooo much!!

          Now, if only the rest of the country will follow your lead..we're off to a good start!
          Wow, thanks for the kind words.

          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Sorry if I got too heated in the past.
          Tim, me too. Thanks man.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Americans are Americans regardless of who is president. If USA was invaded by another country McCain/Obama supporters would be best friends on the same side.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    While I was not for Obama ,I do comgratulate him on his win and hopefully America can turn a new direction towards the greatness we once were and can be again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      actually untrue AND redliculous would be better terms.
      But Barry, the election is over. Is it time you move on to other things?
      All your whining and complaining is not going to change that Obama won.
      Might be a good time for some sermons on love thy neighbor,Together we can change the world,Heaven is right here on earth.,I'm sure you can come up with some good ones on your own.
      Once again, you make allegations but have no facts to back them up. I'm detecting a pattern here.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

        Once again, you make allegations but have no facts to back them up. I'm detecting a pattern here.
        Fact: The number of abortions DECREASE when a Dem is in office. Look it up.

        Despite being for choice, DEMs also are for education, which in turn leads to lower abortion rates.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Fact: The number of abortions DECREASE when a Dem is in office. Look it up.

          Despite being for choice, DEMs also are for education, which in turn leads to lower abortion rates.
          So...Republicans don't want people to be educated? Huh?

          Please explain.

          ~Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            So...Republicans don't want people to be educated? Huh?

            Please explain.

            ~Michael
            So you think Rep. want to spend on sex education? Actually, this was an election platform, where the right wingers tried to frame Obama for teching 5 year olds about sex...Remember that? Truth is, Obama only want to teach them about being touched in inappropriate ways.

            And, it's common knowledge (to most) that the left is more likely to be pro sex educationthan the rigtht. Are you disputing this?

            Now Micheal, on education in general...Do you want to bet that the Dems are willing to budget more money? Yes or no?
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              So you think Rep. want to spend on sex education? Actually, this was an election platform, where the right wingers tried to frame Obama for teching 5 year olds about sex...Remember that? Truth is, Obama only want to teach them about being touched in inappropriate ways.

              And, it's common knowledge (to most) that the left is more likely to be pro sex educationthan the rigtht. Are you disputing this?

              Now Micheal, on education in general...Do you want to bet that the Dems are willing to budget more money? Yes or no?
              Why do you always make assumptions? I was asking for clarification, not rhetoric.

              Anyway...

              I never said anything about sex education, and I already know what Obama's stance was (inappropriate touching). His stance was used as a way to attack him, misquoted, and taken out of context. That's what BOTH sides did.

              You didn't say it was about sex eduction in your post, just education. There's a huge difference. Do you dispute this?

              Now, Kurt, do you want to bet that the Dems are willing to budget LESS money on defense? If so, then using your logic that would mean that dems are anti-defense and want our country to be attacked.

              Spending more ore less money on something that's broken doesn't mean you are for or against it. They are both pro-education and pro-defense, the only difference is what they think the best solution is.

              So, as I said, I was just looking for you to explain your point a bit more. You still haven't really explained anything, but you have no problem being a condescending

              ~Michael
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                Why do you always make assumptions? I was asking for clarification, not rhetoric.

                Anyway...

                I never said anything about sex education, and I already know what Obama's stance was (inappropriate touching). His stance was used as a way to attack him, misquoted, and taken out of context. That's what BOTH sides did.

                You didn't say it was about sex eduction in your post, just education. There's a huge difference. Do you dispute this?

                Now, Kurt, do you want to bet that the Dems are willing to budget LESS money on defense? If so, then using your logic that would mean that dems are anti-defense and want our country to be attacked.

                Spending more ore less money on something that's broken doesn't mean you are for or against it. They are both pro-education and pro-defense, the only difference is what they think the best solution is.

                So, as I said, I was just looking for you to explain your point a bit more. You still haven't really explained anything, but you have no problem being a condescending

                ~Michael
                Micheal,

                Now, about me saying "education", it should have been "sex education". Feel better?

                Next, answer my question: Are you willing to bet? Yes or no? And yes, I'll bet that the dems will cut defense. I'm not afraid to answer a direct question.

                For a big leap in logic (and your point is anything but logical) If the Dems cut defense, it doesn't mean we want to be attacked. That's stupity. It means they put less preference on it.

                Back to my original point, which you are doing a fine job blurring...Fact is, there are less abortions when a Dem is in office. Assuming this is true, let's hear your reasoning for it, since you don't like mine?
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                • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Micheal, [MICHAEL - THE 'A' COMES BEFORE THE 'E', JUST LIKE IN A BOOK CALLED A 'DICTIONARY']

                  Now, about me saying "education", it should have been "sex education". Feel better? [NO, YOU SAID "EDUCATION IN GENERAL" - YOUR WORDS, NOT MINE. WHY CHANGE THE SUBJECT NOW?]

                  Next, answer my question: Are you willing to bet? Yes or no? [THERE'S NO NEED TO BET, I BELIEVE THEY WILL BUDGET MORE FOR EDUCATION, BUT THAT IS IREELEVANT TO THE POINT. THE POINT IS THAT BUDGETING DOES NOT EQUAL CARING ABOUT AN ISSUE] And yes, I'll bet that the dems will cut defense. I'm not afraid to answer a direct question.

                  For a big leap in logic (and your point is anything but logical) [IT'S THE SAME LOGIC I WAS ALREADY USING] If the Dems cut defense, it doesn't mean we want to be attacked. That's stupity. It means they put less preference on it. [AND IF THE REPS CUT EDUCATION IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WANT EVERYONE TO BE STUPID]

                  Back to my original point, which you are doing a fine job blurring...Fact is, there are less abortions when a Dem is in office. [I WASN'T, AND AM NOT, COMMENTING ON THAT POST. I AM COMMENTING ON THE ONE I CHOOSE TO COMMENT ON. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POST IN QUESTION] Assuming this is true, let's hear your reasoning for it, since you don't like mine? [NO NEED, IT MAY BE TRUE, BUT, AGAIN IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IWAS COMMENTING ON]
                  I don't expect you to understand what I'm trying to say. My whole initial response was to get some clarification on what you meant.

                  Then your response had a flaw in its logic, so I pointed it out.

                  Then you come back and say I need to take a leap in logic - Which was the logic you were using and I was using to point out the complete idiocy of your argument.

                  It'll be interesting to see which parts of this post you ignore or blow out of proportion, too.

                  Anyway, you certainly have a way of keeping me on my toes, and that's a good thing.

                  All the best,
                  Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    good point you all bitch about the 3 thousand ives we lost in Iraq, at least in the name of freedom, what about the 3000 lives we lose every day for the sake of another ****?

    sorry to be blunt butthats the truth.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1 View Post

    Well the better marketer won

    -paul
    Unfortunately, you are right on that one.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    I'm glad Obama won. We didn't need another 3 years pro Bush. He was what the country needed at 9/11 but since then has become a farce. And I do not believe that abortion as a topic has any place in politics. It is a personal choice and NO ONE has the right to take that away. The scariest part for me was the interview I caught with McCain in the Church, where he said as President he'd make abortion illegal. Never mind the fact that would be taking away free choice. That scared me. Religion and politics never mix. The US has a shot at regaining its economy, making sweeping changes to its education and being the superpower again. This is the right path. I will say I am once again impressed by you guys. You're patriotism is beyond measure. I'm proud to call you brothers and sisters. My only wish is that we up in Canada were so.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by cypherslock View Post

      And I do not believe that abortion as a topic has any place in politics. It is a personal choice and NO ONE has the right to take that away. The scariest part for me was the interview I caught with McCain in the Church, where he said as President he'd make abortion illegal.
      So what other personal choices can we make that involves taking the life of another? It is amazing that you think killing a baby is a "personal choice" that should have no legal ramifications. Actually, it isn't all that amazing, since many in the USA are also under that delusion.

      I never heard McCain say that about making abortion illegal, but if he did, I like him all the more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    Kim,
    I really don't care what you think about me one way or the other.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Barry, Kim, Marc - and anyone else who can't stop fussing at each other -

      stop

      The election is over - this is NOT the place for an abortion discussion - not now, not ever, not by anyone.

      I'm not interested in seeing the OT go away because a few people can't shut up about their political views now that the election is DONE.

      If you can't get along and move on and treat others here with respect - go away! The same people who so righteously promised to "play nice" yesterday are posting like fussy children again today.

      If you can't post without bragging about being on the winning site - or can't post without whining about losing, go do something else for a while. Come on, guys!


      Marc - You are wrong, too - when you say "wasn't even close"

      A good results of this election is that the popular vote WAS close 52-48 reported this morning. The close vote will moderate his actions (and perhaps keep Pelosi and Frank in check a bit) and I am certainly not waiting him to fail. We can't afford more failures - and we need to all pray for Obama to succeed.

      Exit stage right to put away my soapbox....

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Barry, Kim, Marc - and anyone else who can't stop fussing at each other -

        stop
        I'm not fussing at anyone.

        this is NOT the place for an abortion discussion - not now, not ever, not by anyone.
        Why, isn't this the OT forum?
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        A good results of this election is that the popular vote WAS close 52-48 reported this morning. The close vote will moderate his actions (and perhaps keep Pelosi and Frank in check a bit) and I am certainly not waiting him to fail. We can't afford more failures - and we need to all pray for Obama to succeed.

        Exit stage right to put away my soapbox....

        kay
        The other good thing is that it looks like Prop 8 passed in CA.
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      • Profile picture of the author teleam
        Now you know why I rarely post.

        Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Barry, Kim, Marc - and anyone else who can't stop fussing at each other -

        stop

        The election is over - this is NOT the place for an abortion discussion - not now, not ever, not by anyone.

        I'm not interested in seeing the OT go away because a few people can't shut up about their political views now that the election is DONE.

        If you can't get along and move on and treat others here with respect - go away! The same people who so righteously promised to "play nice" yesterday are posting like fussy children again today.

        If you can't post without bragging about being on the winning site - or can't post without whining about losing, go do something else for a while. Come on, guys!


        Marc - You are wrong, too - when you say "wasn't even close"

        A good results of this election is that the popular vote WAS close 52-48 reported this morning. The close vote will moderate his actions (and perhaps keep Pelosi and Frank in check a bit) and I am certainly not waiting him to fail. We can't afford more failures - and we need to all pray for Obama to succeed.

        Exit stage right to put away my soapbox....

        kay
        This is the off topic forum Kay...

        You Stop

        We can all post anything off topic that we like.

        And, please show me where Barry and I are fussing at anyone. We all have strong opinions. So have you at times.

        Some of us in this forum really enjoy the back and forth. Nothing has gotten out of control. I think something great has come out of our arguing.

        We all know a little more about each other. In fact, some of us have even called truces.

        And, I was right... The race was not close at all considering the popular vote is not a factor in the decision making process.

        How could you possibly want anything too argumentative to stop when you make a comment saying that some of us are acting like"little fussy children?"

        That's like fighting fire with fire. Surely you should know that a comment like that will put most adults on the defense.

        Lastly, the only posts in the off topic forum that you will find of me saying anything remotely fussy would be between Barry and I. But we are cool...

        I respect every thing that he says here. And, I don't mind being challenged by him. He's clearly an intelligent dude... I invite his comments and everyone else... even yours.

        So again... You need to stop

        Everyone here is getting along just fine. However, your post might possibly lead someone to believe otherwise.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          I agree Marc.

          It seems I'm not the only one who annoys people here occasionally Kay. :-)





          Originally Posted by marcanthony View Post

          This is the off topic forum Kay...

          You Stop

          We can all post anything off topic that we like.

          And, please show me where Barry and I are fussing at anyone. We all have strong opinions. So have you at times.

          Some of us in this forum really enjoy the back and forth. Nothing has gotten out of control. I think something great has come out of our arguing.

          We all know a little more about each other. In fact, some of us have even called truces.

          And, I was right... The race was not close at all considering the popular vote is not a factor in the decision making process.

          How could you possibly want anything too argumentative to stop when you make a comment saying that some of us are acting like"little fussy children?"

          That's like fighting fire with fire. Surely you should know that a comment like that will put most adults on the defense.

          Lastly, the only posts in the off topic forum that you will find of me saying anything remotely fussy would be between Barry and I. But we are cool...

          I respect every thing that he says here. And, I don't mind being challenged by him. He's clearly an intelligent dude... I invite his comments and everyone else... even yours.

          So again... You need to stop

          Everyone here is getting along just fine. However, your post might possibly lead someone to believe otherwise.
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          • Profile picture of the author KimW
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            I agree Marc.

            It seems I'm not the only one who annoys people here occasionally Kay. :-)

            Of course your not Tim, But a lot of times they type Kim when I really think they meant Tim!
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by KimW View Post

              Of course your not Tim, But a lot of times they type Kim when I really think they meant Tim!
              Ahh. I see. Makes sense to me. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    hey im just happy we dont have to deal with "its not fair" or "becuase im black"

    now that can never be said again, so no more riots, no more racial oppression. and hey we didnt have to deal with riots either Cheer up guys! we'll geter next time around when everyone realizes that 5 years experience as a community organizer doesnt make you fit to be a president. WHITE or BLACK.

    Peace. BTW christians belive that god has given the child a soul at conception in which case all you who decide to take those live WILL and i mean WILL answer to the big man come the end. good luck LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    I noticed that you completely ignored the last half of my message. This is not about religion but politics. Abortion is NOT political. Hence it has no place in a campaign. And anyone that thinks abortion is the main reason to elect or not elect someone has a very small world view. I am Christian but I swear that some of the things I see and hear people do in the name of God makes me ashamed. This is not a dig at you Barry but an observation in general
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by cypherslock View Post

      I noticed that you completely ignored the last half of my message. This is not about religion but politics. Abortion is NOT political. Hence it has no place in a campaign. And anyone that thinks abortion is the main reason to elect or not elect someone has a very small world view. I am Christian but I swear that some of the things I see and hear people do in the name of God makes me ashamed. This is not a dig at you Barry but an observation in general
      Well, it is political because politicians make laws. You can't completely separate religion and politics.

      And I guess I have a "very small world view" because I actually believe that the protection of innocent life is the NUMBER ONE issue that we should be concerned about. If we are not even willing to protect the lives of the most vulnerable, what does that say about us as a nation? It always blows my mind to hear liberals, who claim to be the most compassionate, defend the taking of innocent life. Sad...
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Right now, there are those who believe we're better off with Obama and
      those who feel otherwise.

      Ultimately, history will be its own judge.

      Personally, I've seen enough of how bad things ARE to have faith that
      whoever wins and whatever he does, will make this country better.

      If I don't believe that then I might as well just give up now.

      And I am NO quitter.

      And so it begins....should be an interesting 4 years.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chuck Evans
    People...instead of bashing and praising who won and who didn't we may want to focus on getting this country, and the world, back on track!

    We have come to a crossroad in this world on morality, economic situations, conflicts, and so much more that we, as a people, need to step up and do what WE can to bring an end to all that is against the word of God.

    Now there are some that don't believe, or have a strong sense of Faith, but in the end I think we ALL agree there is a higher power. Sooner or later we will ALL have to answer for our earthly deeds and sins.

    Be it Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc what can WE do as a collective to bring an end to our destruction. More importantly, what can we - as individuals - do to affect others and their lives!

    Your candidate may not have won the election but we ALL must stand together to make a better place.

    chuck
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Here here Kay. The only thing that worries me now is how long it will be before some dumb redneck takes a shot at the President elect...
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Wonder all you want about what "might" happen - but post it somewhere else. This is out of control here and really is time to just stop!
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    You know what? You are now being RUDE. This is an OT forum. That means anything goes. It is a valid concern. And the election results and fallout will be analysed and discussed for quite some time.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      You know what? "My" guy lost. But the election is over and it is time (IMHO) to put away the battleaxes and stand behind the man that was elected President.

      When Clinton was elected, I was not a happy camper, but I have enough respect for the office of President that I supported and gave him the respect that is deserved for the office.

      I feel the same way about Barack Obama. The Presidential race was long and close, but now that it over, I will support the man who won.

      That doesn't mean I will not try to vote him out in four years , but he is my President, and I support him. The people have spoken.

      The election is over. It is time for all of us to stop bickering and go out for a pizza. What's done is done.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        You know what? You are now being RUDE. This is an OT forum. That means anything goes. It is a valid concern. And the election results and fallout will be analysed and discussed for quite some time.
        I'm not intending to be rude - you have little experience in this section prior to the election perhaps.

        Until a few months ago NO political discussion was allowed here - election or no election. Political or religious posts were deleted immediately. The rules were eased for some reason - but my guess is that if people don't get over it about the election, this section will be removed.

        We used to have some really fantastic discussions here about a lot of issues - and it was fine to debate politics for a while from both sides.

        The election is over - it's time to move on. If we don't do that now this will become only a place to come to complain about politics - and then it will be gone.

        Those of us who were here before the election - some of us for years before - don't want to see that happen.

        kay
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  • Profile picture of the author agoodsaid
    Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1 View Post

    Well the better marketer won

    -paul

    And THAT is a lesson we can all take to the bank if we want to take the time to see the forest for the trees - grin :-D

    Appreciate you Paul!

    Andrea
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  • Profile picture of the author hirohurl
    Whatever happens, America will never be the same after this. That is good news.

    Also, it is a great thing to hear that the turnout was so high. People around the world will start to believe that democracy is still alive in America. That is good news.

    Obama and McCain reached out to each other in their acception/concession speeches. That is good news.

    McCain's was a fine concession speech and it seems that he has understood the significance of the moment and risen to the occasion. That speech showed McCain at his best (oh, and his comedy act on Saturday Night Live too.)

    As an outsider, it feels to me as if America is breathing again...

    I mean a living body needs to inhale and exhale, and the shift from Republican virtues to Democratic ones, and back again, is what keeps the nation healthy when it tires of the accompanying vices!

    Breath in.... breath out...

    I guess the Democrats must be the exhaling part of that rhythm since the rest of the world (except China and India) is breathing a sigh of relief!!
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  • Profile picture of the author rafnie
    YES!!! I will bring change in the World for the better!
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Fair enough Kim. I do have one question though: When we up here elect a PM he's in pretty much instantly. But with the US the election is in November but the actual swearing in and term starts Jan. 20th. Why is that?
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by cypherslock View Post

      Fair enough Kim. I do have one question though: When we up here elect a PM he's in pretty much instantly. But with the US the election is in November but the actual swearing in and term starts Jan. 20th. Why is that?
      This is my understanding of it.

      1. When the Constitution was written it took a while for the votes to be collected and counted. Due to travel times taking much longer.

      2. The original date of inauguration was March 4th, but they moved it up to January 20th.

      3. With a new president comes a whole new administration. It takes time to select and confirm members to the cabinet.

      4. There are also congressional and senate elections, so any potential memebrs of a cabinet may depend on whether or not some of these people won their elections.

      5. It's not like you can just flip a switch between presidencies. Where one moment it's Bush and the next it's Obama. And if McCain would have won, the president would be in a different position.

      6. I also believe the new president and V.P. go through a lengthy briefing on national security and other matters.

      Anyway, those are mostly guesses on my part, but they seem to make sense.

      ~Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author imfreelance
    I just have to say that I am thrilled Obama has been elected.
    I know now that us Americans can come together and look past race and age and unite for the greater good. I really feel that on some deeper level we have overcome our past and now only need to look to the future. That speaks volumes for me. Our spirit is back!
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    i can deffinetly agree here... rep democrat, black white independent or turnkey...
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  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      espacecadet,

      I am getting a little confused here - I guess mostly because I do not know US laws very well...

      But you mentioned abortions on 7-8-9th months of pregnancy, is this even possible? I should tell you I am PRO abortion, because of many reason, but as far I as I know most abortions are performed in the first 8 weeks of the pregnancy, when the child isn't a child but an embryo...
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        ...in the first 8 weeks of the pregnancy, when the child isn't a child but an embryo...
        Alex, I have given birth 3 children.

        There is never a point when I said, "Oh, good! Now I really am carrying a child! Yesterday it was only an embryo."

        IMHO, the only time a distinction is made between "child" and "embryo" is when the mother doesn't want it. I have never heard a pregnant woman (who planned on having the baby) say, "Guess what! I'm pregnant, but it isn't really a child yet. It will really be a child in a few weeks."

        Just sayin'.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
          Originally Posted by Shay60654 View Post

          Alex, I have given birth 3 children.

          There is never a point when I said, "Oh, good! Now I really am carrying a child! Yesterday it was only an embryo."

          IMHO, the only time a distinction is made between "child" and "embryo" is when the mother doesn't want it. I have never heard a pregnant woman (who planned on having the baby) say, "Guess what! I'm pregnant, but it isn't really a child yet. It will really be a child in a few weeks."

          Just sayin'.
          I understand your point, but as you said You DID want all the children - of course you'd have a different mindset.
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        espacecadet,

        I am getting a little confused here - I guess mostly because I do not know US laws very well...

        But you mentioned abortions on 7-8-9th months of pregnancy, is this even possible? I should tell you I am PRO abortion, because of many reason, but as far I as I know most abortions are performed in the first 8 weeks of the pregnancy, when the child isn't a child but an embryo...
        A child can be aborted through the 9th month and even after their head has been pushed out. The jamb a pair of scissors in their neck and kill them. It is called "partial birth abortion" and it is a procedure that Obama is for.
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        I should tell you I am PRO abortion
        Then why not call it what it really is and say that you are pro-killing of infants? When we say "abortion" it makes it sound like some nice clinical procedure, but it is not. I've sat with mothers who have aborted their babies months after the procedure and listened to their stories of babies cries haunting them through the night. It is not a pretty picture.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

          Then why not call it what it really is and say that you are pro-killing of infants? When we say "abortion" it makes it sound like some nice clinical procedure, but it is not. I've sat with mothers who have aborted their babies months after the procedure and listened to their stories of babies cries haunting them through the night. It is not a pretty picture.
          I've spoken to same women, who were happy they didn't bring in a child, for many different reasons. What's your point?
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
            Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

            I've spoken to same women, who were happy they didn't bring in a child, for many different reasons. What's your point?
            If you really can't figure it out, I'll just stop here. You are probably the most callous person I've ever come across.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Cheesman
    A child is a child at conception...

    I have seen and read enough about this that would make the most hideous killer sick.

    Most of the abortion practices performed today was used by Hitler when Hitler was in power..

    Just do a little research on abortion and types of abortions..

    Dennis
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by Dennis Cheesman View Post

      A child is a child at conception...
      Say this to a woman who got raped...

      "So who's the father of your child"?
      ...
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        Say this to a woman who got raped...

        "So who's the father of your child"?
        ...
        I have all the sympathy in the world for a woman was was raped, but the means of her pregnancy does not negate the value of the child in her womb.

        You seem to think that feelings trump facts, but they do not. The reality of her pregnancy is that she has a child in her womb and when you "abort" that child you are killing it.

        We have tougher laws in this country for killing animals (look up the laws on stealing and/or breaking the eggs of an eagle) than we do for killing human infants.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

          I have all the sympathy in the world for a woman was was raped, but the means of her pregnancy does not negate the value of the child in her womb.

          You seem to think that feelings trump facts, but they do not. The reality of her pregnancy is that she has a child in her womb and when you "abort" that child you are killing it.

          We have tougher laws in this country for killing animals (look up the laws on stealing and/or breaking the eggs of an eagle) than we do for killing human infants.
          I seem to think that...? No, not really. I once had to do a paper on the subject, and I surveyed 30 women aged 18-30. 28 of them said they would get an abortion ASAP, not wanting to carry a rapist's baby.

          We are not in 1900's... Bad things happen - but there is a way to fix them, Why force yourself to suffer all your life?
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
            Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

            We are not in 1900's... Bad things happen - but there is a way to fix them, Why force yourself to suffer all your life?
            Exactly, we are not in the 1900s. We know way more than they did back then.

            "Why force yourself to suffer all your life?"

            Ask that to that dead baby lying in the dumpster. Don't you have any feelings for the child at all?
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            • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              Exactly, we are not in the 1900s. We know way more than they did back then.

              "Why force yourself to suffer all your life?"

              Ask that to that dead baby lying in the dumpster. Don't you have any feelings for the child at all?
              Why do you always have to dramatize and exaggerate all the time? You didn't get enough attention when you were a kid? Oh I am sorry about that.

              There is a difference between an embryo without nervs, brain, feelings... and a "baby lying in the dumpster" as you call it.
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              • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

                Why do you always have to dramatize and exaggerate all the time? You didn't get enough attention when you were a kid? Oh I am sorry about that.

                There is a difference between an embryo without nervs, brain, feelings... and a "baby lying in the dumpster" as you call it.
                Alex,
                Do some research on the subject. You'll find out that I'm not exaggerating at all. Science is our friend.
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                • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
                  Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                  Alex,
                  Do some research on the subject. You'll find out that I'm not exaggerating at all. Science is our friend.
                  Science?

                  Religion was made up when science couldn't prove the simple facts, such as the sunrise and sun set. Now science proved and explained all those things - you still believe in God, don't you?

                  And you talk about science?

                  Wow...
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                  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                    Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

                    Science?

                    Religion was made up when science couldn't prove the simple facts, such as the sunrise and sun set. Now science proved and explained all those things - you still believe in God, don't you?

                    And you talk about science?

                    Wow...
                    Alex,
                    So you can't answer the facts about abortion, and now decide to make a weak attempt to attack my faith. Another cheap liberal tactic....

                    Obviously you don't know enough about either subject to discuss it on an intelligent level, so I'll just let you go back to your toybox.

                    Bye.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
                      Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                      Alex,
                      So you can't answer the facts about abortion, and now decide to make a weak attempt to attack my faith. Another cheap liberal tactic....

                      Obviously you don't know enough about either subject to discuss it on an intelligent level, so I'll just let you go back to your toybox.

                      Bye.
                      I did my research. That is why I am PRO-abortion when it comes to first 8 weeks.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

                        I did my research. That is why I am PRO-abortion when it comes to first 8 weeks.
                        Look Alex, I'm going to drop this because it appears to be a waste of time.

                        I would implore you to actually look at modern day photos of babies up to 8-weeks-old and then come tell me if you still think of this as just an embryo with not thoughts or feelings.

                        And aren't you glad you're mother didn't decide to abort you?
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                        • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
                          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                          Look Alex, I'm going to drop this because it appears to be a waste of time.

                          I would implore you to actually look at modern day photos of babies up to 8-weeks-old and then come tell me if you still think of this as just an embryo with not thoughts or feelings.

                          And aren't you glad you're mother didn't decide to abort you?
                          I can't believe you are twice my age yet you can't read properly and turn around everything I say.

                          Bravo.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Cheesman
        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        Say this to a woman who got raped...

        "So who's the father of your child"?
        ...
        See this is why I usually stay out of these places...

        I have had family members that have been raped and it is an awful thing that is for sure....

        But you cannot tell me that everyone going to get abortions were raped? I know a woman right now that useses it as birth control and she makes me sick to even know her!

        And while I cannot speak for everybody I speak for myself and I am against abortion, if that makes me wrong or not as good as people that are for it then so be it.

        But no matter how it was conceived it is still a child right or wrong.

        Dennis
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  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      Not here in the good ol' USA, Alex. Late-term abotions happen all the time. Late-term, as in 7th, 8th, even 9th month.

      It's also referred to as partial-birth abortion. ...

      In that case, I also don't understand WHAT was SHE thinking during the 9 months...
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      • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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        • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
          Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

          My point exactly. A woman has months to decide what she wants to do. There's is no excuse to wait so long, and then do something like that. If a woman is going to wait that long, she should give normal birth to the child and put it up for adoption. There is no need for murder.

          I would like the laws to stipulate that after the fifth month, the abortion option is off the table. Even a very obese woman should know from her lack of periods that she might be pregnant by the fifth month. Rather than just thinking about it, she should go to the doctor and be checked out.

          Ignorance is no excuse!
          That baby can feel pain way before the fifth month. Why should abortion be legal even after the first day?
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
    ... going off subject again.
    My point was, sometimes things happen that were not meant to happen/were not wanted/intended.

    When a woman gets pregnant because she or her partner were lazy enough to go and buy a condom - sure, it is their "fault" is she gets pregnant.

    When a woman gets raped - she really had no choice. And forcing her to carry the "unwanted" baby, forcing her to think of the rapist's face every time she looks at her child is simply inhuman.

    Please don't tell me that if she did get pregnant - it was the will of God.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Obama isn't against bans on late term abortion.

      In an interview on Fox News Sunday, Obama said, "On an issue like partial-birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

      And forcing her to carry the "unwanted" baby, forcing her to think of the rapist's face every time she looks at her child is simply inhuman.
      Notice that he now uses the appropriate terms -- "baby" and "child"

      So it is alright to kill a "baby" or "child" if it is "unwanted." How thoughtful.

      Have you ever considered the pain the child goes through?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
        Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

        Notice that he now uses the appropriate terms -- "baby" and "child"

        So it is alright to kill a "baby" or "child" if it is "unwanted." How thoughtful.

        Have you ever considered the pain the child goes through?
        What pain when it's under 8 weeks? It had no feelings, it doesn't think... it virtually does not exist.

        p.s. When I use the term "child" - i mean it's born.
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        • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
          Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

          What pain when it's under 8 weeks? It had no feelings, it doesn't think... it virtually does not exist.
          Science Alex. You are so misinformed on this subject it is unreal.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

      ... forcing her to think of the rapist's face every time she looks at her child is simply inhuman.
      There is always adoption.

      She never has to see the child again....but the child is in a loving home....where he/she is "wanted."

      What is wrong with that?:confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
        Originally Posted by Shay60654 View Post

        There is always adoption.

        She never has to see the child again....but the child is in a loving home....where he/she is "wanted."

        What is wrong with that?:confused:
        There is nothing wrong with that. My point was about the abortions. Why bring in a child then give it out for adoption when you can have an abortion in the first 8 weeks - when the "baby" does not feel or think...?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
    At 7 weeks, the fetus is less than the size of a kidney bean, and has no brain.

    What your baby looks like -- 7 Weeks | BabyCenter

    No nervous system has begun developing until week 8-10.

    http://www.wpclinic.org/parenting/fetal-development/

    Science supports that prior to 8 weeks, the time span you two were arguing about, the fetus does not think or feel as Barry claims. Regardless of the exact time, there is a point before which the fetus is not sentient or capable of feeling pain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Cheesman
    Abortion Methods - How Different Types of Surgical Abortions are Performed

    Abortion Procedures : American Pregnancy Association
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  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      Okay, enough dissing each other. Let's get back to the main thread topic:

      Aw, crap! Now the staff will have to clean little black curly hairs out of the showers!

      What's on the menu for the next State dinner, chitlins and collard greens?

      (It's just a joke! C'mon, if you can't laugh at that something might be wrong with ya! :rolleyes: You had to know they'd be coming.)

      Why does the theme from The Jeffersons come to mind? (Movin' on up...!)
      Ok now you're getting personal.
      Since I'm bald the only hairs in my shower are the little black curly ones.
      I also happen to like pig intestines fried in oil and collard greens
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      Me, too! Them's some tasty vittles! Too bad they can't get Irene Ryan to cook in the White House. Grannie would fix 'em right up!
      Oh hell ya she would
      Not to mention she had a way with possum, hmmmmm (drool) possum
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Oh hell ya she would
        Not to mention she had a way with possum, hmmmmm (drool) possum
        Armadillo = Possum on the Half Shell...
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        • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
          Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post

          Armadillo = Possum on the Half Shell...
          LMAO!! That is a classic!!
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    • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
      mmmmm...roadrunner rigatoni, opossum patties, hare hash, coyote cupcakes w/ bugsplatter icing
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      • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
        Two bad words'

        Fairness Act.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by lilmechante01 View Post

        mmmmm...roadrunner rigatoni, opossum patties, hare hash, coyote cupcakes w/ bugsplatter icing
        I think I just fell in love :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          I think I just fell in love :rolleyes:
          Hmmm. I don't know about the food, but her photo is very nice. :-0
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        • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          I think I just fell in love :rolleyes:
          And, here I thought you fell in love 'cuz i'm a redneck girl

          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Hmmm. I don't know about the food, but her photo is very nice. :-0
          Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

          gotta agree with that! :p
          Y'all are verrrrrry sweet! Thank you...it's been quite awhile since someone's made me blush.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    BTW christians belive that god has given the child a soul at conception in which case all you who decide to take those live WILL and i mean WILL answer to the big man come the end.
    Half of all pregnancies self abort (miscarry) before the mother even realizes she's pregnant - yet people think God installs the soul at conception? What the hell kind of God are you people dealing with that would play a trick like that on a soul? I have NEVER found in your scriptures where it says that the soul is there at conception....I've only even seen a few lines that can even be loosely interpreted as such.


    Anyhow - Obamah scares me sh*tless. But he's in there now so all I can do is pray that he does right by us and that people finally get awake enough and smart enough to stop his act if he needs to be stopped. I just hope there is an America to even defend 4 years from now. Watch out for NAFTA and S2433.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Good point Sal

      George Carlin did a bit on abortion. I was going to post it here but decided not to because it might upset some. You know how George can be sometimes. :-) But he makes the point that after an egg is fertalized, many of them don't attach themselves to the uterus and just get cycled out of the body in the normal menstrual cycle. So, are these fertalized eggs lost souls forever also? Does life begin at conception or when the egg becomes attached? I'm not defending abortion, but just saying people have their own ideas of when life starts.

      BTW, most pro choice people wouldn't consider themselves pro abortion.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Half of all pregnancies self abort (miscarry) before the mother even realizes she's pregnant - yet people think God installs the soul at conception? What the hell kind of God are you people dealing with that would play a trick like that on a soul? I have NEVER found in your scriptures where it says that the soul is there at conception....I've only even seen a few lines that can even be loosely interpreted as such.
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        BTW, most pro choice people wouldn't consider themselves pro abortion.
        How convenient for them!
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

          How convenient for them!
          Is it a matter of convenience? Or just defining how they view the issue? Pro choice means they believe the women has the right to choose, not that they favor abortion. Someone who is pro choice may choose to keep a baby instead of getting an abortion. I personally don't know anyone who thinks abortion is a good thing.

          I do hope eventually this issue which devides the country will dissappear because of improvements in birth control. There will be a day, when only those who want to get pregnant will IMO.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
        In Christianity, the Ten Commandments were (allegedly) the
        Word of God engraved in tablests of stone.

        They were absolute, had no small print or waivers or "get out"
        clauses".

        In essence, you either obey the Commandments or you do
        not fear or worship your God. Conveniently adopting or
        finding some dubious way around Commandments based on
        some whacko interpretation of something found elsewhere
        in the Bible is at best less than Godfearing or devout.

        "Thou shalt not kill" has a very hollow ring to it after being
        used and abused for selfish purposes over the last couple
        of millenia.

        Western society seems increasingly secular except when
        otherwise convenient. Sad old world.

        As an agnostic, in that neither of the other two precepts
        are provable, the human race still seems to have far to go
        before "Thou shalt not kill" evolves from a wish to an absolute.
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        • Profile picture of the author KimW
          Originally Posted by Mike Wright View Post


          Western society seems increasingly secular except when
          otherwise convenient. Sad old world.
          I find that true of many people that profess to be religious.
          Only when it suits them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Patrician
          The world is at enmity with God. We have broken every single one of His commandments from day one.

          ...And in fact unless someone is not at enmity with the world, they do not know God. Hence all the enemies of God that come off the wall to attack us.

          The true Gospel is always an offense and it is meant to cut deep. The truth is a double-edged sword. Unbelievers just don't see or understand, but they will.

          He gave us free will and the price for that is we get to suffer the consequences of our free will. Unfortunately so do our victims.

          It really doesn't matter what we believe or disbelieve, because what is, is, whether we believe it or not.

          ...and personally I am not a good enough Christian that I won't be happy to see people laughing out of the other side of their face someday.



          Originally Posted by Mike Wright View Post

          In Christianity, the Ten Commandments were (allegedly) the
          Word of God engraved in tablests of stone.

          They were absolute, had no small print or waivers or "get out"
          clauses".

          In essence, you either obey the Commandments or you do
          not fear or worship your God. Conveniently adopting or
          finding some dubious way around Commandments based on
          some whacko interpretation of something found elsewhere
          in the Bible is at best less than Godfearing or devout.

          "Thou shalt not kill" has a very hollow ring to it after being
          used and abused for selfish purposes over the last couple
          of millenia.

          Western society seems increasingly secular except when
          otherwise convenient. Sad old world.

          As an agnostic, in that neither of the other two precepts
          are provable, the human race still seems to have far to go
          before "Thou shalt not kill" evolves from a wish to an absolute.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
            Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

            The world is at enmity with God. We have broken every single one of His commandments from day one.

            ...And in fact unless someone is not an enmity with the world, they do not know God. Hence all the enemies of God that come off the wall to attack us.

            The true Gospel is always an offense and it is meant to cut deep. The truth is a double-edged sword. Unbelievers just don't see or understand, but they will.

            He gave us free will and the price for that is we get to suffer the consequences of our free will. Unfortunately so do our victims.

            It really doesn't matter what we believe or disbelieve, because what is, is, whether we believe it or not.

            ...and personally I am not a good enough Christian that I won't be happy to see people laughing out of the other side of their face someday.
            So what is?
            And how can one prove that it is or isn't?
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
            Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

            The world is at enmity with God. We have broken every single one of His commandments from day one.
            What about all the people that lived before the commandments and bible existed?
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        BTW, most pro choice people wouldn't consider themselves pro abortion.
        That is interesting. What does the "pro" stand for in "pro choice" then?
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

          That is interesting. What does the "pro" stand for in "pro choice" then?
          That the woman has the right to choose.
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            That the woman has the right to choose.
            To choose what?
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              To choose what?
              Well considering it is called pro choice you figure it out.
              I am not a big fan of abortions but, being a male and seeing how I can not become pregnant I do not see where I should be able to impose my views on those that can.
              Unless it is a female in my family, I have no right to dictate to a stranger what she can or cannot do with her body and what may be in it.
              If I have the right to do that then I have the right to dictate to you what you believe and what you eat, etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Having the choice to make the decision. If abortion is illegal, then women don't have a choice, right?

          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

          That is interesting. What does the "pro" stand for in "pro choice" then?
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Having the choice to make the decision. If abortion is illegal, then women don't have a choice, right?
            Why not just say it like it is? You are giving them the choice to kill their child. That is pro-abortion. Pro-choice just makes it sound a lot more positive, but that isn't what it really is at all.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              Why not just say it like it is? You are giving them the choice to kill their child. That is pro-abortion. Pro-choice just makes it sound a lot more positive, but that isn't what it really is at all.
              Barry, just wondering. Are you for the death penalty? I suspect you are. If so, then you could be considered pro murder I guess.

              If you want to call it pro-abortion fine. I understand your position on abortion and respect it. I also understand the other side. A lot of women feel as bj does. Like I said earlier I think the solution is to work on prevention of unwanted pregnancies.
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              • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Barry, just wondering. Are you for the death penalty? I suspect you are. If so, then you could be considered pro murder I guess.

                If you want to call it pro-abortion fine. I understand your position on abortion and respect it. I also understand the other side. A lot of women feel as bj does. Like I said earlier I think the solution is to work on prevention of unwanted pregnancies.
                Yes, I am for the death penalty. The death penalty is for those who have taken the life of another. It is not for innocents. Abortion kills a person who has never done anything wrong to anyone. Can't you see the difference?

                Didn't you say in another thread you were Catholic? I've worked with many Catholics to try to end abortion, you're the first one I've come across that tried to promote it.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                  Yes, I am for the death penalty. The death penalty is for those who have taken the life of another. It is not for innocents. Abortion kills a person who has never done anything wrong to anyone. Can't you see the difference?
                  What about thou shall not kill? Is it only when the definition is "convenient" for you? When someone kills someone else we have life in prison. Of course, if you believe in killing them instead that's fine. It's still killing. Also, the government makes mistakes, so sometimes an innocent is killed.

                  Of course, Bush was Governor when Texas broke the record for most killings using the death penalty. But he's pro-life. Interesting isn't it?

                  I'm not promoting abortion Barry. This whole discussion started with some misinformation about Obama on abortion. I believe someone, maybe you, called him a baby killer because of some votes he had. This isn't true and I tried to point that out.
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              • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Barry, just wondering. Are you for the death penalty? I suspect you are. If so, then you could be considered pro murder I guess.

                If you want to call it pro-abortion fine. I understand your position on abortion and respect it. I also understand the other side. A lot of women feel as bj does. Like I said earlier I think the solution is to work on prevention of unwanted pregnancies.
                Thank you Tim, but I want to clarify that I'm not just talking about imposing our will on women. I'm talking about every person. All of us our born with free will to make our own choices, and those choices are a part of our soul's growth...in that case, the only ONE who should be able to take that way is the Higher Source who gave it to us.
                Namaste

                [quote=Barry Davis;232569]Abortion kills a person who has never done anything wrong to anyone. Can't you see the difference?quote] Okay, playing "devil's advocate" here and throwing this discussion wayyyy off :p
                Barry, do you eat meat? Do you hunt? Animals are GODs creatures just as humans are...so in that case... they haven't done anything wrong to anyone either, yet they are being killed too.:rolleyes:

                I'm also curious...do you believe in past lives and soul connections?

                p.s. anyone who hunts...I am in no way casting judgement or being negative towards you (or anyone else on this thread)
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              Why not just say it like it is? You are giving them the choice to kill their child. That is pro-abortion. Pro-choice just makes it sound a lot more positive, but that isn't what it really is at all.
              It's the choice to create a child or not. We already went over the science.
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              • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

                It's the choice to create a child or not. We already went over the science.
                No, it is the choice whether to kill a child or not. The child is already present.

                Let's say that you are right and I am wrong. What harm has come to anyone? There are more parents who want to adopt than there are children to go around.

                But what if I am right and you are wrong? How many children have been killed to fit your political views?
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Good point Sal

        George Carlin did a bit on abortion. I was going to post it here but decided not to because it might upset some. You know how George can be sometimes. :-) But he makes the point that after an egg is fertalized, many of them don't attach themselves to the uterus and just get cycled out of the body in the normal menstrual cycle. So, are these fertalized eggs lost souls forever also? Does life begin at conception or when the egg becomes attached? I'm not defending abortion, but just saying people have their own ideas of when life starts.

        BTW, most pro choice people wouldn't consider themselves pro abortion.
        Awe Crap, Tim....did we just agree on something? What the heck has this election done to us all? I can straighten it all out though by finishing my thought so that even you will blow your cork again.........

        I don't feel that any MAN on the face of this earth has any right to any decision regarding right to life. When you can carry life in your own bodies, you can decide. Until that time...it's our decision not yours.

        I will follow that with the fact I think women who are not careful about using birth control faithfully are disgusting. While birth control can fail, and it's a hard one for the women who experience that, and those women should be able to choose without harrassement. Those who just fail to protect then run for abortions should have their butts slapped on the table and be spaid like cats. If someone can't take some responsibility for not becoming pregnant when they are aware they would not want the child, they shouldn't be left with the ability to become pregnant. Is that evil? I got sterilized when I realized I didn't want children, it's not hard to do at all.


        Oh Hi, Annoyed Girl -- I've been right here the whole time. Just finding not much I care to say.. til now. LMAO
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          That didn't make me blow my cork. And when did I blow my cork before? Sounds kind of weird anyways. :-0

          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Awe Crap, Tim....did we just agree on something? What the heck has this election done to us all? I can straighten it all out though by finishing my thought so that even you will blow your cork again.........
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            That didn't make me blow my cork. And when did I blow my cork before? Sounds kind of weird anyways. :-0
            ???:rolleyes:???
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I don't know why all the quibbling about 4 weeks, 8 weeks, feelings, thoughts or souls, how where or when.

    The issue is 'thou shalt not kill' - period.

    At conception, maybe it's not viable or a complete human being yet, but undoubtedly it is a living human being to be. It is definitely in existence.

    Since you can't kill a soul, I am sure they just go someplace else if the target host is destroyed; so that is a moot point as well. *

    * In case you can't believe there is a soul because you can't see it - you can't see thoughts either - but you do acknowledge their existence.

    Thou shalt not kill does not include NAFTA however - ABORT! ABORT!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      I don't know why all the quibbling about 4 weeks, 8 weeks, feelings, thoughts or souls, how where or when.

      The issue is 'thou shalt not kill' - period.

      At conception, maybe it's not viable or a complete human being yet, but undoubtedly it is a living human being to be. It is definitely in existence.

      Since you can't kill a soul, I am sure they just go someplace else if the target host is destroyed; so that is a moot point as well. *

      * In case you can't believe there is a soul because you can't see it - you can't see thoughts either - but you do acknowledge their existence.

      Thou shalt not kill does not include NAFTA however - ABORT! ABORT!
      Great point!
      We should all stop wasting our time on the forum.
      Go have unprotected sex with EVERY person you see - because by not doing so you are killing the children to be :p
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  • Profile picture of the author vbm08
    Banned
    "THE CHANGE HAS COME TO AMERICA & YES WE CAN "

    These will be the most cherished words in US right now. As it will be somewhat difficult to predict what will be the future of America but one thing is certain that Americans have never come this close as before. The economic crisis have made Americans realize that they are also human beings with limitations and they should stay on the ground.

    But one good thing has happened for US which is white-black war has come to an end (Almost). I wish US people to have a very bright tomorrow and happy prosperous life again when the new President Era will begin from the Month of Jan 2009.
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    I Wish my brothers could get college for FREE. Dont see that happening anytime soon though. its been more than fair for long enough, if there is still race wars, if deffinetly not the US as whole, we have made up 10 times over the oppresion we put blacks through. just like the indians as well.

    we have all come to realize the wrong, and have tried our best to make right, if it takes a black man being in office just to shut mouths and stop the jawing about the past then that is rediculous.

    lets just pray the man actual backs up his words. if he does we'll be headed for great times and im excited.

    if my guts right though, you all better buckle up. BTW Babies should not be killed, who are we to decide who lives and die's? have we given those babies the right to a fiar trial?

    were they proven guilty? did they commit an emotional crime on the mother? - has a heart beat, and living cells, its a living being, plain and simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
    Your body destroyed several thousand live bacteria while you wrote that. Murderer. Those cells were born in the USA, they deserved a trial by their peers. And don't even think about masturbating any time soon, just think about all those sperm, your living genetic clones, murdered in your sock.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

      Your body destroyed several thousand live bacteria while you wrote that. Murderer. Those cells were born in the USA, they deserved a trial by their peers. And don't even think about masturbating any time soon, just think about all those sperm, your living genetic clones, murdered in your sock.
      :p

      Exactly. Masturbation is murder :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        :p

        Exactly. Masturbation is murder :p
        I stopped when I realized that's where the screams were coming from...
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    • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
      ok then so when your child was concieved you had no care about it right?

      none of you meant a damn thing you were all worthless organisms that had no sould correct?

      ask any mother how she feels when she knows she is pregnant. ask any mother if that is a baby or a liveless peice of sludge... this is the most disgusting aspect of your party. it is absolutely disgusting.

      you liberal die hards care more about the freakin clown fish on a reef or a karaboo in alaska than a concieved human being.

      it is a living baby A LIVING BABY. i think i'll go throw up now. may any of you NEVER be given the oppourtunity to abort a child. You will answer to GOD. trust me on that one.

      Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

      Your body destroyed several thousand live bacteria while you wrote that. Murderer. Those cells were born in the USA, they deserved a trial by their peers. And don't even think about masturbating any time soon, just think about all those sperm, your living genetic clones, murdered in your sock.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
        Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

        ok then so when your child was concieved you had no care about it right?

        none of you meant a damn thing you were all worthless organisms that had no sould correct?

        ask any mother how she feels when she knows she is pregnant. ask any mother if that is a baby or a liveless peice of sludge... this is the most disgusting aspect of your party. it is absolutely disgusting.

        you liberal die hards care more about the freakin clown fish on a reef or a karaboo in alaska than a concieved human being.

        it is a living baby A LIVING BABY. i think i'll go throw up now. may any of you NEVER be given the oppourtunity to abort a child. You will answer to GOD. trust me on that one.
        We will answer to GOD?
        ... You have officially become the biggest joke.

        What did all the people in World Trade Center answer for? 62,000,000 in WWII? Thousands of Americans and Iraqi people? They all did something "bad" in the eyes of God? Seriously... Your God Sucks.
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        • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
          Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

          We will answer to GOD?
          ... You have officially become the biggest joke.

          What did all the people in World Trade Center answer for? 62,000,000 in WWII? Thousands of Americans and Iraqi people? They all did something "bad" in the eyes of God? Seriously... Your God Sucks.
          Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. -- Romans 1:22 (NLT)
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
            Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

            Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. -- Romans 1:22 (NLT)
            I like bible, it has entertaining stories... the guys who wrote it had a lot of imagination, but how can you deny the death of 62 Million people in WWII by quoting the bible?
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  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      Well, gee, Alex, being a Canadian, which God do you kill for?

      And please, Alex, no name-calling. No one is a joke. We all have opinions and we should be able to express them without being disrespected (something I try to remember, but forget sometimes, so when I do, please remind me. Thanks.)
      I don't kill. If I would - it wouldn't be for God, in my eyes GOD must do good... I haven't heard of such God so far...
      Telling me WHO I WILL ANSWER TO is not an opinion
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    your an idiot, those who kill in the name of god dont kill for the god i like to belive exists, BTW you look like a serial killer or a unibomber since you feel necessary to insult me.

    and no the poeple who were killed arnt punished becuase they were killed, if you take a life i belive you will answer for it. i can belive what i choose, and if i am the biggest joke, your the goofiest looking punk i have ever spoken with.
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    i'll retire from this nonsense. i can belie whatever i chose and so can you guys i suppose. Crongrats for the dems on the election!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

      i'll retire from this nonsense. i can belie whatever i chose and so can you guys i suppose. Crongrats for the dems on the election!
      Good call and exactly my point. You believe you will answer to God - that's fine, but don't impose it on me telling that I WILL answer to God as well.

      Now go to the gym, put my photo on the punching bag and have fun.
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      • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
        LMAO - Will Do my Freind. I have to give it to ya that was funny...

        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        Good call and exactly my point. You believe you will answer to God - that's fine, but don't impose it on me telling that I WILL answer to God as well.

        Now go to the gym, put my photo on the punching bag and have fun.
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  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    There will be a WSO coming with a punching bag and photos of your top 10 favorite Warriors.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      There will be a WSO coming with a punching bag and photos of your top 10 favorite Warriors.
      Sounds like a money maker :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman


    Such a backwards country still. Some day we'll catch up with the rest of the civilized world and stop believing in magical arks and people living in fish.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post


      The most developed, most civilized and "happiest" countries are on top of the list... ask me why I am not surprised.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
      Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post


      I can't believe that the country that bore Charles Darwin doesn't even make it into the top 5 of that table. So very sad....

      And well done to Barack Obama! He's a fascinating guy and it will be interesting to see how accurate the comparisons are with JFK's style of leadership.
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by John Henderson View Post

        I can't believe that the country that bore Charles Darwin doesn't even make it into the top 5 of that table. So very sad....
        Why is that sad?
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        • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

          Why is that sad?
          Well, according to the table that Dan Grossman posted, there are five countries in the world where Darwin's work has had a greater impact than in the UK.

          That seems sad to me; it's not much of a tribute to one of the most influential scientists who ever lived when his own country isn't the biggest appreciator of his work. JMHO!
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
            Originally Posted by John Henderson View Post

            That seems sad to me; it's not much of a tribute to one of the most influential scientists who ever lived when his own country isn't the biggest appreciator of his work. JMHO!
            There are a whole lot of people (including many scientists) who do not agree with his conclusions.

            I think we've gotten about as off-topic as you can get at this point
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            • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              There are a whole lot of people (including many scientists) who do not agree with his conclusions.
              Very true -- the debate rages on...

              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              I think we've gotten about as off-topic as you can get at this point
              I know! I've a feeling that AnnoyedGirl will come along any time now, and reprimand us both!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    ok now you can **** off - grossman. just becuase we place reason for creation doesnt mean we are backwards and unclivilized you fool
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by IRON_STRONG View Post

      ok now you can **** off - grossman. just becuase we place reason for creation doesnt mean we are backwards and unclivilized you fool
      Josh keep these in mind.
      In the bible God said he would show no proof of his existence so those that choose to believe would do so by faith.
      Also in there it says that one day to God is like a thousand years to man.

      So is it not possible that God created evolution?
      That has been my take on it anyways.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
    I have visited 10 countries from the top 11 (all except Japan) and as soon as I get a chance to move to any of them - i'd do it in a heartbeat. Although Canada is considered great country it doesn't even compare to Denmark, Belgium or Germany... with better quality of life on EVERY aspect!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
    I don't suppose IRON_STRONG watched Religulous... :p

    http://disbeliefnet.com/
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    What, the subject is OBAMA WON and now ppl talking about abortion and evolution? :rolleyes: Those are for different threads :rolleyes: And I don't believe monkeys magically appeared on earth and humans magically formed from monkeys and life is just an accident or coincidence with no purpose and there is nothing but eternal nothingness after we die from an accidental life so nothing matters (that's quite depressing and I'll need some heavy doses of tranquilizers to believe that) But that has nothing to do with Obama winning and this thread and why are ppl even talking about that?
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Ya can't "prove" love exists, but does that mean it doesn't?
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Topic is: OBAMA WON
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Yay Obama
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    The OT isn't fun anymore

    I like the no politics/religion rule
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      Ya can't "prove" love exists, but does that mean it doesn't?
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      Topic is: OBAMA WON
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      Yay Obama
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      The OT isn't fun anymore

      I like the no politics/religion rule
      That's my point. Love, or God or many other things - No one can prove their existence, or non-existence for that matter. There are people who believe in love, others don't...

      However, you are right, this thread has gone OFF TOPIC to the point that it's EPIC. Time to join the Offtopic.com forum ... or keep things ON topic in here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    When I first came back to the OT, I posted requesting the same thing.

    Time to bring back the no religion/politics rule.

    Not because it is not worthy of being discussed, but because it can't be discussed in a civil manner.

    I'm backwards because of my beliefs?

    Christian bashing, racism, name-calling? All in one thread, too.

    Time to bring back the rule.

    And, yes, you can absolutely bet that I will not do business with some of the people here because of their comments. Of course, they may choose not to do business with me, but I have tried to be fair and not resort to name-calling.

    I can't wait until the old rule comes back. We need it.

    I love the OT overall, bur the religion and politics has gone too far again.

    I'd hate to see the whole Off-Topic forum go, but if you guys can't play nice, then it's the price we all have to pay for your vehement nonsense.

    ~Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    You're right Alex I totally respect your belief. You can't prove or disprove a lot of things, but everyone believes what they want and they have a born right to.

    People get way to passionate/fiery/sensitive/argumentative/insulting/etc when it comes to religion and politics so it looks like even most grown ppl can't discuss it civilly.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      You're right Alex I totally respect your belief. You can't prove or disprove a lot of things, but everyone believes what they want and they have a born right to.

      People get way to passionate/fiery/sensitive/argumentative/insulting/etc when it comes to religion and politics so it looks like even most grown ppl can't discuss it civilly.
      I would admit to that... I tend to get over excited mostly because I have personal experience on subjects of religion (I have family members give up all they had to Christian churches, ending up at mental institutions...) but that's not an excuse for my behavior.

      Politics? I know as much as I know about it. I have traveled to quiet a few countries, saw better life and better quality of life BASED on politics... this is why I also get over excited about politics...

      Sometimes we have to agree to disagree - but I guess I'll just try to stay out of politics and religion... perhaps out of OT (unless it involves humor, laughing is always good...)

      Alex
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      • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        Politics? I know as much as I know about it. I have traveled to quiet a few countries, saw better life and better quality of life BASED on politics... this is why I also get over excited about politics...
        We totally agree on politics. (Obama )

        Lotsa times politics can create problems or solve problems.

        As for religious institutions they can be good or bad. They can feed a hungry person, clothe a cold person, give hope to a hopeless person. Or they can lie, steal, and ruin lives. That's why you gotta be careful who ya trust.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
          Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

          We totally agree on politics. (Obama )

          Lotsa times politics can create problems or solve problems.

          As for religious institutions they can be good or bad. They can feed a hungry person, clothe a cold person, give hope to a hopeless person. Or they can lie, steal, and ruin lives. That's why you gotta be careful who ya trust.
          ... at some point I wanted to start a church... since they can run businesses without paying taxes :p
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          • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
            Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

            ... at some point I wanted to start a church... since they can run businesses without paying taxes :p

            one thing i totally disagree with... i can level with you here.
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  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      No, Michael, we don't need the rule back, we just need to start policing and call people out when they make personal attacks and start namecalling, that's all.

      I've done my fair share of it and was wrong to have done so, I'll admit as much, so let's try to be polite with each other, okay?

      If we can't, then the rules will probably come back and the OTwill be boring again.
      I think we need the rule back, and you don't. That's okay. I appreciate your take on it and I am just expressing my opinion.

      The problem with saying we just need to "call people out" is that when they ARE called out, it makes things worse.

      I agree 100% with trying to be polite with each other, always have. You are being polite right now, for example.

      Bringing back the old rules will not make it boring at all, in my opinion. Music is never boring, and there are humor posts, and so on. I do not to read endless bickering and angry comments to relieve boredom.

      So, if it came to a vote, it sounds like you say don't bring back the old rule, and I would vote in favor of bringing it back.

      Ultimately, if it's a choice between the old rule coming back or the OT being deleted, I will choose the former. In other words, I'd still like to see it come back.

      ~Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author IRON_STRONG
    see everything's all better!
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  • Profile picture of the author espacecadet
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by espacecadet View Post

      Well, yeah, if the choice is rules or get rid of the OT, bring the rules back.

      When I said call people out, I meant in a polite way, of course, simply by stating what they did and asking them to please try to refrain from personal attacks as it reflects badly upon them as well as the OT.

      Perhaps I should have said "call them on it", rather than call them out. That would've been more exact.

      Even though you don't like to read all the bickering that's going on, there are some who revel in it. To each his own and we do have the choice to not jump into the fray.

      The rules were brought back for a few days and it was pretty boring to me, but that's me. I'd prefer they not return if we can avoid that.

      THIS is the exact kind of discussion I prefer, espace. We are both expressing our viewpoint without resorting to childish tactics.

      However, I do think that religion and politics get people the most worked up, and most likely to overdo it.

      I have seen people called on things, and they get quite upset. And they were called on it in a nice way, but they dod not respond in a nice way.

      Anyway, thanks for remaining civil in this discussion - we can disagree and get along at the same time.

      ~Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author PassiveCashGal
    WOOHOO! Yes I'm an Obama Mama! All 3 of my kids along my hubbie were jumping up and down and excited about this history making moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Cheesman
    What about the rights of the father? Shouldn't he have a choice? They both had an act in creating the child, so shouldn't he atleast have a choice?

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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Dennis Cheesman View Post

      What about the rights of the father? Shouldn't he have a choice? They both had an act in creating the child, so shouldn't he atleast have a choice?

      Dennis
      Dennis that is why I said female in my family.
      I know there are many circumstances where the man who impregnated the female should have a say, but seeing how the female has to carry the child, the decision ultimately lies with her. I know if i got someone pregnant I would want to raise the child even if the mother didn't want to, but that still doesn't give me the right to force my views on someone else.
      That to me is the difference between pro choice and anti abortionist.
      Pro choice allows the individuals involved to decide.
      The antis want it their way period without any consideration to the circumstances or those involved.
      Also if abortion was totally illegal then the old coat hanger abortions and backroom abortions would be the only choice any female would have.
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    • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
      Originally Posted by Dennis Cheesman View Post

      What about the rights of the father? Shouldn't he have a choice? They both had an act in creating the child, so shouldn't he atleast have a choice?

      Dennis
      oh geez, I can't believe I'm getting into this conversation, but...

      I would think if the father is in the picture that it should be a mutual decision.

      It is interesting to me that most of the conversation about this is taking place amongst the men in this thread.:rolleyes:

      Just food for thought...but is it really up to us to force our "will" on others? Honestly, how many people here would want someone else to force their will upon you and make all your decisions for you?

      Weren't we given free will with our existence on Earth?

      Namaste
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by lilmechante01 View Post

        oh geez, I can't believe I'm getting into this conversation, but...

        I would think if the father is in the picture that it should be a mutual decision.

        It is interesting to me that most of the conversation about this is taking place amongst the men in this thread.:rolleyes:

        Just food for thought...but is it really up to us to force our "will" on others? Honestly, how many people here would want someone else to force their will upon you and make all your decisions for you?

        Weren't we given free will with our existence on Earth?

        Namaste
        bj
        Geez likes roadkill and is smart too
        That's why I have always said until a man can get pregnant he has no right in deciding what a women should be able to do especially one he doesn't know.
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        • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          Geez likes roadkill and is smart too
          That's why I have always said until a man can get pregnant he has no right in deciding what a women should be able to do especially one he doesn't know.
          A woman could kill her child outside of the womb. Would that be okay with you too?

          I mean, it is her child, what right do you have to intervene?
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

            A woman could kill her child outside of the womb. Would that be okay with you too?

            I mean, it is her child, what right do you have to intervene?
            What I want to know is what makes you think you have the right to decide what another human being does but they don't.
            Remember we are talking about pro choice and anti choice here.
            Try not to change the subject like you did here and always seem to do to fit your point of view.
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            • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              What I want to know is what makes you think you have the right to decide what another human being does but they don't.
              Remember we are talking about pro choice and anti choice here.
              Try not to change the subject like you did here and always seem to do to fit your point of view.
              I have the same right to tell a woman not to kill the baby in her womb as I have the right to tell my neighbor not to shoot his wife. There is no difference.

              We tell other people what they can and cannot do all the time.

              Are you saying we should have no laws for anyone?
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                I have the same right to tell a woman not to kill the baby in her womb as I have the right to tell my neighbor not to shoot his wife. There is no difference.

                We tell other people what they can and cannot do all the time.

                Are you saying we should have no laws for anyone?
                Go tell the 14 year old girl who was gang raped she now has to give up her life and be a mother.

                So go tell your neighbor not to shoot his wife, he'll tell you to mind your own business just like the 14 year old girl will.
                It's not the laws that prevent people from doing something it's their conscience.
                Besides if you are so law abiding then you should be pro choice, after all it is the law.
                Bottom line is you have no right to tell anyone what they can or cannot do, no more then I do.
                We can make suggestions to them but that is as far as it goes.
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                • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                  Go tell the 14 year old girl who was gang raped she now has to give up her life and be a mother.
                  Gladly.

                  So go tell your neighbor not to shoot his wife, he'll tell you to mind your own business just like the 14 year old girl will.
                  I doubt it.

                  Besides if you are so law abiding then you should be pro choice, after all it is the law.
                  Because God's law supersedes man's law for the Christian. When man's law would force a person to break God's law, man's law is ignored.

                  Bottom line is you have no right to tell anyone what they can or cannot do, no more then I do. We can make suggestions to them but that is as far as it goes.
                  So you have never told one person, even your children, that a particular behavior was wrong and that they shouldn't do it? I find that very hard to believe.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                    Gladly.



                    I doubt it.



                    Because God's law supersedes man's law for the Christian. When man's law would force a person to break God's law, man's law is ignored.



                    So you have never told one person, even your children, that a particular behavior was wrong and that they shouldn't do it? I find that very hard to believe.
                    Doesn't it say in the bible to just obey man's law because what is important is being with God after this life is over? No where in the bible does it say to ignore mans law.

                    What I've told my children is none of your business, though I know you would like it to be.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      Doesn't it say in the bible to just obey man's law because what is important is being with God after this life is over? No where in the bible does it say to ignore mans law.
                      When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them, saying, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet , you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man's blood upon us." But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men."
                      -- Acts 5:27-29 (NASB)
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                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                        Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                        When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them, saying, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet , you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man's blood upon us." But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men."
                        -- Acts 5:27-29 (NASB)
                        I'm not going to dig out my bible just to prove a point that you should already know if you have read the whole bible.
                        But off the top of my head I think it was in Corinthians where Paul was asked if Christians should obey the laws of man. His reply was something to the effect of obey the laws as your time on earth is but an instance compared to the eternity you will spend in heaven.

                        By using your approach I can say it's ok to kill someone. After all doesn't it say in the bible "an eye for an eye'?
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  • Profile picture of the author Lifedreamer
    Hi Yes History in the making. Change America will have, I hope Obama is in for the challenge. Thanks for reporting Lifedreamer
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
    Barry, death penalty has killed more innocent people than you can imagine...
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

      Barry, death penalty has killed more innocent people than you can imagine...
      Has it killed 40 million +? That's how many babies have been killed in the womb since Roe v. Wade.

      So you are anti-death penalty and pro-abortion? You are more concerned with the life of a murderer than you are with the life of an infant? That's mind-blowing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
        Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

        Has it killed 40 million +? That's how many babies have been killed in the womb since Roe v. Wade.

        So you are anti-death penalty and pro-abortion? You are more concerned with the life of a murderer than you are with the life of an infant? That's mind-blowing.
        First of all, you ignored my question, like you often do. Why is that? Because you cannot admit you are wrong?

        Second of all, most of the abortions would have happened anyways... only in insanitary conditions instead of clinics with doctors.

        You are saying that I am more concerned with the life of a murdered - once again COMPLETELY turning around what I said...

        Now this is mind-blowing... You make me think of Bush, when question about one subject, you somehow turn it into a completely different subject and try to come out as an expert.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    Paul,
    Your post makes so many ridiculous and absurd statements that it is impossible to respond to it intelligently.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1 View Post

      How did I know you would reply like this, tell which bits are
      "ridiculous and absurd statements"
      These ones:

      Religion is for those who cannot accept the events in our world created by humans.
      Religion is for those who cannot accept there own and others actions and choices.

      Religion was invented when humans still though that the earth was flat and the sun
      set into the sea, It's now 2008 where most things have been proven such as
      evolution, how the big bang came about, what was here before the big bang and
      just about everything else.

      Tell me....do you think witches and wizards are real just because J.K Rowling
      wrote about them in a BOOK? Is it so hard to believe after such overwhelming
      proof that the bible was just written by a guy with a good imagination, just like
      J.K Rowling?
      The others could possibly be legitimate questions, but when you lace your post with such absurd and incorrect statements such as those above, it is hard to take you seriously.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wakunahum
    Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1 View Post

    Ok I have held off long enough, if people feel the need to vent religion/faith on others,
    then I have the right to vent my view.

    Religion is for those who cannot accept the events in our world created by humans.
    Religion is for those who cannot accept there own and others actions and choices.

    ...

    -paul
    With as many religions as there are and as many different views on each religion, isn't it a bit shortsighted to give blanket statements as to why someone is involved in a religion?
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    Originally Posted by p1a1u1l1 View Post

    "Religion is for those who cannot accept the events in our world created by humans.
    Religion is for those who cannot accept there own and others actions and choices."

    My opinion.


    "Religion was invented when humans still though that the earth was flat and the sun
    set into the sea, It's now 2008 where most things have been proven such as
    evolution, how the big bang came about, what was here before the big bang and
    just about everything else."

    Fact with piles of proof.


    Tell me....do you think witches and wizards are real just because J.K Rowling
    wrote about them in a BOOK? Is it so hard to believe after such overwhelming
    proof that the bible was just written by a guy with a good imagination, just like
    J.K Rowling?

    Example of how absurd religion and the bible is.


    Instead of picking apart my post, how about answering the questions with your
    proof.

    You seem so keen to flunk all our proof with unfounded crap, now it's your turn
    to prove us wrong.

    Sorry if that sounds harsh but the burden of proof is upon you now.

    -paul
    Paul,
    It is hard to prove someone wrong when their arguments are based on statements that are completely false. Usually when someone makes an argument there are at least some factual statements involved that can be debated.

    Like when you imply that Christians thought the earth was flat. Nothing could be further from the truth. God is the one who revealed in the Bible that the earth was round. It took thousands of years for science to catch up with the Bible, not the other way around.

    He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. -- Isaiah 40:22

    He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. -- Job 26:7

    How about the Hydrologic Cycle:

    "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind. -- Job 36:27-28

    The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. -- Ecclesiastes 1:6-7

    The Biblical writers did not have use of any modern scientific equipment, yet were able to write down these truths long before science discovered them. How do you explain that?

    Of course, the Bible uses poetic language to describe the "four corners of the earth" but we do the same today. It is simply a figure of speech.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
    Thom,
    Read your Bible, then get back to me. None of those statements are in there other than "an eye for an eye." Jesus said that we should not seek an eye for an eye.

    And what about the verses I just posted. Do those say to obey God rather than man or do they not?
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

      Thom,
      Read your Bible, then get back to me. None of those statements are in there other than "an eye for an eye." Jesus said that we should not seek an eye for an eye.

      And what about the verses I just posted. Do those say to obey God rather than man or do they not?
      Barry if I could find my thesaurus I would find the exact passage I was paraphrasing, it is in there.
      I know what Jesus said about an eye for an eye, the point I was making is that people will quote the bible out of context to prove their point.
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      • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I know what Jesus said about an eye for an eye, the point I was making is that people will quote the bible out of context to prove their point.
        Exactly, that is what you are doing now, except you are mixing verses together to make your point.

        Look, I'm not trying to back you into a corner or anything. I just would rather that if we are going to discuss the Bible that we would discuss what it actually says.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

          Exactly, that is what you are doing now, except you are mixing verses together to make your point.

          Look, I'm not trying to back you into a corner or anything. I just would rather that if we are going to discuss the Bible that we would discuss what it actually says.
          After what you said about me in that other thread I don't really give a shit about what you want.
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            After what you said about me in that other thread I don't really give a shit about what you want.
            Fine, just go back to smoking your weed. Oh, wait a minute, I'm sorry, you said you followed all the laws of the land didn't you?
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

              Fine, just go back to smoking your weed. Oh, wait a minute, I'm sorry, you said you followed all the laws of the land didn't you?
              Didn't know I needed your all mighty permission to do that.
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              • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                Didn't know I needed your all mighty permission to do that.
                I couldn't care less if you smoke a pound a week. But you are the one who said we should follow the US laws even if we don't agree with them, didn't you?
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                  I couldn't care less if you smoke a pound a week. But you are the one who said we should follow the US laws even if we don't agree with them, didn't you?
                  Pull up the post of me saying that.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    What does any of this have to do with Obama?

    HeySal, where are you?
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    I can't fathom you would possibly get sterilized HeySal, you seem the motherly type and I thought you'd have 7-10 kids. I think you should either get it reversed and have lotsa kids or adopt a sibling group of 10 kids asap. You'd have tons of fun.

    I refuse to debate anything abortion related (isn't this the OBAMA thread?) but I can't help but wonder if some anti abortion ppl would still be anti abortion if they knew the baby would be (or grow up to be) Muslim, Arab, Iraqi, gay, or a far left liberal extremist?
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Does anyone else think of mayonaisse when they see Michael Mayo and think his name is Michael Mayonaisse?
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
      Lol...Reminds me of "Hold the Mayo!"
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      Does anyone else think of mayonaisse when they see Michael Mayo and think his name is Michael Mayonaisse?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Sol
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      Does anyone else think of mayonaisse when they see Michael Mayo and think his name is Michael Mayonaisse?
      Hahaha... I am not sure how it is in the USA, but here in Quebec, when speaking French or English - most of the people actually say MAYO and not Mayonnaise
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      • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
        Originally Posted by Alex Sol View Post

        Hahaha... I am not sure how it is in the USA, but here in Quebec, when speaking French or English - most of the people actually say MAYO and not Mayonnaise
        Here too, everyone says mayo, that's why I think of mayonaisse everytime I see "mayo".

        I'd like extra mayo, no mayo, low-fat mayo, fat free mayo, easy on the mayo, no mayo, mayo on the side, etc. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author Patrician
          Miracle Whip, please

          Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

          Here too, everyone says mayo, that's why I think of mayonaisse everytime I see "mayo".

          I'd like extra mayo, no mayo, low-fat mayo, fat free mayo, easy on the mayo, no mayo, mayo on the side, etc. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Phnx
    Blimey, things are getting a little testy in here!

    Cup of tea, anyone?
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    • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
      Originally Posted by Phnx View Post

      Blimey, things are getting a little testy in here!

      Cup of tea, anyone?
      With all the talk about mayo..I think it's shifted from testy to tasty:p
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        My family doctor when I was a kid was Dr. Mayo so I always fondly think of him.
        But now that you mention it I do seem to crave a BLT heavy on the mayo after I read one of Michael's posts:rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          My family doctor when I was a kid was Dr. Mayo so I always fondly think of him.
          But now that you mention it I do seem to crave a BLT heavy on the mayo after I read one of Michael's posts:rolleyes:
          tsk tsk, that better be TURKEY bacon you're talking about!!
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

            tsk tsk, that better be TURKEY bacon you're talking about!!
            You don't get bacon from a turkey:confused:
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              You don't get bacon from a turkey:confused:
              I wouldn't be so sure Thom.

              With all the weird stuff happening here lately, any thing's possible.

              Have a Great Night!
              Michael
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              • Profile picture of the author traffic know how
                This was such a historical event, our leading morning newspaper issued a special afternoon paper.
                This is in Sydney, Australia... and we're just as excited.
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by traffic know how View Post

                  This was such a historical event, our leading morning newspaper issued a special afternoon paper.
                  This is in Sydney, Australia... and we're just as excited.
                  That's what made this election real interesting. How will this election have an affect on the rest of the world?

                  Here's one American who does care what the rest of the world thinks and knows it is important. What happens here does affect the rest of the world directly. I'm glad you are excited. :-)
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    I also care what the world thinks - our reputation has sunk to new lows under Bush.

                    I noticed that neither candidate mentioned Guantanamo - that I heard, at least. Nor did either mention the border guards prosecuted by Texas for shooting a drug smuggler in the butt.

                    Those are two issues that add to our rep for incompetence to me.

                    kay
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            • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              You don't get bacon from a turkey:confused:
              Shame on you! Pork is bad for you! You must switch to turkey bacon, it's 98% fat free and better from you and good and no pork. Or you can switch to veggie bacon.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
            Lol... You people crack me up!

            Hey, Thom, Great ideal on the BLT sandwich!

            They're nearly done. Want me to email you one?

            Have a Great Day/Night!
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
              Originally Posted by Michael Mayo View Post

              Lol... You people crack me up!

              Hey, Thom, Great ideal on the BLT sandwich!

              They're nearly done. Want me to email you one?

              Have a Great Day/Night!
              Michael
              Sniffle...Sniffle...I want one too!
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
                Originally Posted by lilmechante01 View Post

                Sniffle...Sniffle...I want one too!
                White or Wheat? Like it toasted too?

                Michael
                P.S. I'll need your email address to send it. ;-)
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                • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
                  Originally Posted by Michael Mayo View Post

                  White or Wheat? Like it toasted too?

                  Michael
                  P.S. I'll need your email address to send it. ;-)
                  Wheat and definitely toasted! Have any avocado by chance? Silly..you know you can always PM it to me
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Michael Mayo View Post

              Lol... You people crack me up!

              Hey, Thom, Great ideal on the BLT sandwich!

              They're nearly done. Want me to email you one?

              Have a Great Day/Night!
              Michael
              Dang I went to bed to soon:confused:
              I'll still take one though toasted please so it doesn't sog up my email client.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
                One of the greatest Cosmic wonders is the evolution of
                a bacterium through mammals to become Manna ...
                manifested in the "Bacon Sarnie".

                Those feeling this might verge on the sacreligious clearly
                are mutants lacking taste buds ... and should read up on
                Divinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive".

                Obama rocks. So to do the Americans "of colour" who can now
                be just Americans. Carpe Diem et Pax Vobiscum
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          My family doctor when I was a kid was Dr. Mayo so I always fondly think of him.
          But now that you mention it I do seem to crave a BLT heavy on the mayo after I read one of Michael's posts:rolleyes:
          LOL.

          Hey, the I had surgury on my knees by a Dr. Butcher. I like Mayo better.
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          • Profile picture of the author KimW
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            LOL.

            Hey, the I had surgury on my knees by a Dr. Butcher. I like Mayo better.
            I have a Dr Baker.
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            • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
              Hello, just see whether we can bring this thread forward again.
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                Hello, just see whether we can bring this thread forward again.
                Good luck with that one
                As for O, I didn't vote for him.
                In a different thread I mentioned I voted Green Party this year.
                I figure now though all we can do is give him a chance and see what he does.
                All the candidates say one thing when they campaign and then when they win find the reality of the job may be different from what they expected.
                I did hear that among the group of economic advisers he met with yesterday Warren Buffet was there, so at least he is going to the pros so to speak.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
    I was going to go to the inauguration until I found out the cheap seats are $700!

    Originally Posted by Dirky47 View Post

    Did you joined his Victory Rally?!! Freedom Freedom in Democracy! GREAT!
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I agree ThomM, as I said elsewhere ,maybe even earlier in this thread, it's time to stop bashing and let's see what we can get accomplished. by working together.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I agree ThomM, as I said elsewhere ,maybe even earlier in this thread, it's time to stop bashing and let's see what we can get accomplished. by working together.
      That's the whole problem Kim.
      After the elections it should be about working together to rebuild our country.
      I don't know if we will ever see that though.
      To many people will have him under a microscope and criticizing everything he wants to do or does. Criticism isn't always bad, but if you are going to do it, then have an alternative solution that is viable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I agree ThomM, as I said elsewhere ,maybe even earlier in this thread, it's time to stop bashing and let's see what we can get accomplished. by working together.
      Yeah, just like Pelosi, Reid, and company have been trying to do for the last eight years. Do you honestly believe that Obama is even going to try to be bipartisan and work with the other side? Have you seen who he picked for his Chief of Staff?
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

        Do you honestly believe that Obama is even going to try to be bipartisan and work with the other side? Have you seen who he picked for his Chief of Staff?
        Senator Lindsay Graham seemed to think it was a good choice.
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        • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Senator Lindsay Graham seemed to think it was a good choice.
          Good for him. It still doesn't answer the question.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Yes, I do think he will try to be bi-partisan and work with the other side.

            Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

            Good for him. It still doesn't answer the question.
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Mayo
              It's True!

              History has been made.

              I'm Just Reporting it, Don't blame or thank me!

              Have a Great Day/Night!
              Michael
              P.S. Let's try this again...lol
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            • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

              Yes, I do think he will try to be bi-partisan and work with the other side.
              Okay, we shall see.

              But the truth of the matter is, I see nothing wrong with being partisan. People seem to thing the greatest thing in the world is to be bi-partisan and compromise. I'm partisan, I admit it, and think it is a good thing.
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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

                I'm partisan, I admit it, and think it is a good thing.
                I'm admittedly partisan, but want the parties to compromise and get soemthing done for the better of the country. We'll see.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
    You're so combative. Give him a chance and see?
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Davis
      Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post

      You're so combative. Give him a chance and see?
      I don't get where the "combative" comment came from. I just asked a very simple question.
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      • Profile picture of the author Free Business Training
        Originally Posted by Barry Davis View Post

        I don't get where the "combative" comment came from. I just asked a very simple question.
        It's the old "if you're not with us, you are against us."

        It is the DUTY of every American to question their Government,
        that's what keeps it from going too far astray.(yeah right!)

        Regardless of who won the election the core issues remain unchanged.

        Stand Proud, talk LOUD and never let any one tell you what to think.

        BTW - choosing the lesser of two evils doe's not make it good.

        IMHO
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  • Profile picture of the author traffic know how
    whoo hoo!!
    It's big news even with our school children here in Sydney, Australia!
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    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Perks
      Originally Posted by sudarshanwagh View Post

      It is really avery great thing that happen in world politics. Change has come atlast.
      Unfortunately, history will give us the clearer picture on this momentuous advent. But with current stats Obama has the following to boast about:

      1. Having received 3 times the money from wall st backers.　(we have all seen what wall st is doing at the moment)

      2. Appoints a chf of staff who has dual citizenship with Israel of all countries. (Alarm bells are ringing) Served in the Israeli army too?? (The bells ring harder and harder!!)

      Just look at who Bush had as his Vice Pres and Chf of Staff, that should tell the picture clearly.

      3. Talks now about increasing military and it`s global empire (history has a closet full of past empires who went out conquering the world)

      4. Wants to restrict or ban guns totally. (we`ve seen the public reaction to that in the US--haven`t we?)

      5. Mentions more war with Pakistan and of course Iran. More countries with WMD, blah, blah, blah.

      To end this on a high note. The USA`s last great leader and man of his word was JFK and as we have all seen too often, honest men who are on the peoples side are not welcomed by the few international bankers controlling the many.

      Don`t fall for the hype.
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  • Profile picture of the author JSantiago
    Many people outside the USA are just pleased to see the back of George Bush.

    James Santiago
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy123
      I just saw Obama run out of a plane on CNN
      toward his family kiss his wife and hug his daughters,
      seemed sincere he is able to give and receive love.

      Hope this is a good sign he will really do what is right
      for the American people and not get tangled up in the nwo.

      We'll just have to see his actions to know the truth.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    It will be better than shrub. That's good.
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    • Profile picture of the author Phnx
      Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

      It will be better than shrub. That's good.
      Ah, but do you think without Bush and his excesses, Obama could have been elected?

      We are so disgustingly easy to manipulate, en masse and individually. Fear and Hope, it gets us every time.

      Clinton getting embroiled in sleaze, and the media pressing for impeachment - though the public kept telling them to stop it as they were fed up with it - it was inevitable the public would go for his polar opposite: George W Bush. You'll recall that he presented himself as just a 'regular' guy, so no worries that he'd be entertaining slappers in the White House. A nice clean-cut Christian family guy who looked to be someone you could have a beer with.

      Well the world soon realised Bush was something far worse, and many Republicans and Christians also turned against him. He had the 'fear factor' working for him to get a second term - and the Diebold machines ) All the campaigns for impeachment during this current term in office were ignored, right up until a few months before the election. Wouldn't do to have Bush turfed out and a more reasonable fella installed. Still, near the election people were reminded how bad Bush was, just in case they'd forgotten. It's now on the official record forever thanks to Dennis Kucinich that a sitting President was accused of High Crimes and Misdemeanors and Mass Murder.

      Again, you were offered a polar opposite (on the surface) to vote for. The chance to go from someone perceived as an evil, warmongering wannabe dictator in most of the world - and many in the US shared the view - to someone perceived as a veritable Saviour. Obama was up against an old man who looked tired and past it. An extraordinary choice, and the contrast with him and Obama on screen was startling. One young and charismatic, offering 'change'...and the chance to make history for those concerned about being 'right-on'...the other just a tired old man with the same tired rhetoric. He also had a disease which may have seen him die in office, so his VP was even more important. Everything is designed to make Obama the more appealing, even the media are sucking up to him in a noticeable bias. And Obamas media campaign was very very slick.

      Does McCain pick the best and the brightest as VP, to make up for his perceived shortcomings? No. They pluck a woman from nowhere (don't tell me there weren't better qualified female candidates) who it soon became clear was as thick as pig shite and a fundamentalist to boot. It wasn't being religious that scared people, it was the fundamentalist aspect, as it subconsciously reminded people that Bush had claimed 'God' told him to bomb Iraq. Some people didn't need a subconscious prod, they just started shrieking "no, no, not another religious nutjob!". I think she was just there to scare the fence-sitters into voting for Obama. Seriously.

      Worked out rather nicely.

      There's an old saying about "be careful what you wish for" that comes to mind here.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    " and the Diebold machines"
    Do they use these in the UK too?
    I saw numerous articles and videos showing how these could and probably were manipulated and rigged during the 2000 and 2004 elections.
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    • Profile picture of the author Phnx
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      " and the Diebold machines"
      Do they use these in the UK too?
      I saw numerous articles and videos showing how these could and probably were manipulated and rigged during the 2000 and 2004 elections.
      Not yet, as far as I know Kim, but I do expect it to happen eventually. They've been experimenting with online voting but there were quite a few scandals and the evidence showed they were rigging things. Disgusting isn't it? You expect these things in corrupt Third World dictatorships but not in Western democracies.

      I never used to believe the Diebold claims, just thought it was Democrats whining and being sore losers. Not sure about the 2000 election but I've become certain they were rigged in the 2004 election. One of their programmers testified before Congress (I think) how easy it was to do. Do a search on YouTube and you might find some good ones.

      I can totally understand how people went for Obama - pre Tony Blair I'd have been taken with him too. Blair inspired a similar fervour for change - and he was the polar opposite of a corrupt sleaze ridden Conservative Party. I believed he was genuine at the time but Blair turned out to be a lying little scrote, so I hope you guys fare better with Obama.

      ETA: ('course that's without my conspiracy hat on - with my tinfoil in place I'm convinced Obama is something else altogether, and here to help lead us all ultimately into a New World Order/One World Government. )
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      • Profile picture of the author John Henderson
        Originally Posted by Phnx View Post

        I can totally understand how people went for Obama - pre Tony Blair I'd have been taken with him too. Blair inspired a similar fervour for change - and he was the polar opposite of a corrupt sleaze ridden Conservative Party. I believed he was genuine at the time but Blair turned out to be a lying little scrote, so I hope you guys fare better with Obama.
        Once again Phnx, you've hit the nail right on the head...
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
        Originally Posted by Phnx View Post

        I can totally understand how people went for Obama - pre Tony Blair I'd have been taken with him too. Blair inspired a similar fervour for change - and he was the polar opposite of a corrupt sleaze ridden Conservative Party. I believed he was genuine at the time but Blair turned out to be a lying little scrote, so I hope you guys fare better with Obama.
        Lol, I would not piss on Blair if he was on fire Lee,
        as the quaint old British phrase goes

        There was a good quote by one of the panellists on BBC Question Time
        last night on TV. The guy said "I was a lawyer until I developed a
        conscience" .... which drew considerable applause!

        The Blair pair are/were both lawyers. Obama and his wife are/were
        both attorneys. However, Michelle Obama seems far more of a
        human being than Cherie ..... so there's hope yet
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Phnx, you know Shrub is a reptilian. He's totally evil and I like anything polar opposite of Shrub.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Perks
    In the final analysis. Obama = Another puppet on the string of International Bankers and put there to push home further agendas for globalists. Don't be fooled by the smooth talking/african american.

    Bush got it against his fellow "skulls and bones" brother Senator Kerry last time.

    Democracy has become a dirty word and the masses are lapping it up with the "Chosen One!"

    Chosen by who and what for --more like it.

    Go down the rabbit hole to see how deep it gets?

    -R
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "Don't be fooled by the smooth talking/african american. "
    I don't know any African Americans.I know we just elected a new American president that has an African heritage background.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Kerr
    Obama won what? Is there a contest I wasn't told about?

    And who is Obama?
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  • Profile picture of the author gimmick
    Great the Obama won, world needs new winds and now they are blowing.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    So far, Obama is doing something which probably even Hiliary Clinton wouldn't dare if she won. He is recreating the Clinton Whitehouse!

    BBC NEWS | Americas | US Elections 2008 | Is Obama recreating the Clinton era?

    It seems the Obama is set to outclint the Clintons, so much for change!
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  • Profile picture of the author Richardo
    Congratulation to Obama. I think Obama will being change to Washington.
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  • Profile picture of the author fruitpie
    Here's to new leadership with a chance for a new beginning. Let's join together to put this county back together.
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  • Profile picture of the author Warren Tattersall
    Now perhaps we will see what a president who is not carrying debts to power groups who put him into office is able to do in the Whitehouse
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Perks
      Here's to a NEW front-man who has been placed into power by the elites who run the US from behind the curtains, pushing their secret agendas as has been done over the decades.

      God help us all.

      -Rob
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