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PC Problems

by Kurt
30 replies
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I'm having some serious PC problems that result in constant BSODs...It seems they are related to the memory in some way, but still not sure if it's hardware or software related.

I'm tired of messing around trying to fix it and am going to get a new PC.

My question is, should I do something like use Norton Ghost to create an image disk to load on the new PC?

Can I do this?

On one hand, I don't want to lose the use of all the software I've bought and paid for....On the other hand, I don't want to import old problems to a new PC.

And, I'm not sure I can even run something like Norton Ghost on this PC without a BSOD.

I'm not trying to get around software licenses and run them on multiple computers, only use the software I paid for on ONE PC.

How do you handle upgrading to a new PC when the old one isn't stable?

Thanks...
  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    Kurt,

    I wasn't sure what bsod meant, so googled it. Blue screen of death?

    Read it's usually a hardware issue. Yes, you can use Ghost. There's
    another good program that I cannot remember at the moment.

    Here:

    Blue screen of death


    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Kurt,
    Have you tested the memory? I have "cured" many BSODs by replacing the memory.
    But, to answer your question, I have a prgram called Shadow Protect installed on my PC which claims you can do a system restore from an old PC backup to a new PC without the usual problems involved. I have not had a system failure yet so I have no tried it. You can check it out here: Backup software | Disaster Recovery Software | Server Backup Software | Drive Image | Home
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I checked it out using IE, but they have the DUMBEST "buy" system I've ever seen. You click on "buy" and they take you to the same page.

      So I switch over to Firefox just to check, and the links work.

      Unbelievable. Someone needs to fire their web designer.

      (Sorry, just in a really grumpy mood.)
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken
        Kurt. When this happened to me I traced it to a faulty
        sound card. I updated the drivers and all was well.

        I've talked to others in the past who've had the problem
        and the general consensus was updating all drivers possible.

        Don't know if it would help in your case but it might be easier
        than purchasing new computer.

        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by Ken View Post

          Kurt. When this happened to me I traced it to a faulty
          sound card. I updated the drivers and all was well.

          I've talked to others in the past who've had the problem
          and the general consensus was updating all drivers possible.

          Don't know if it would help in your case but it might be easier
          than purchasing new computer.

          Ken
          That was mentioned in the wikipedia article. The thing about
          drivers.

          Might be worth checking out, Kurt.


          Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Yes Ken, BSOD stands for Blue Screen Of Death.

    Not fun to deal with.
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  • Profile picture of the author kbnor
    Not sure if it has relevance in this case, but sys admins in my 'day job company' have mentioned that BSODs are more often caused by software issues than hardware issues.
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    • Profile picture of the author KimW
      Originally Posted by kbnor View Post

      Not sure if it has relevance in this case, but sys admins in my 'day job company' have mentioned that BSODs are more often caused by software issues than hardware issues.
      When you get the BSOD it will have a message with it, the message usually says there is a hardware or software conflict,if you have recently made any changes to your system uninstall it.

      My expereience is that its usually bad memory causing the BSOD,and after memory, some software as you said.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Hey Kim,

    Yeah, I did a memory test, came back OK, but I have my doubts.

    The BSOD gives different message, the most recent is:
    memory_managment

    Also some others:
    irql_not_less_or_equal
    fn_list_corrupt (maybe pfn_list_corrupt ?)

    To be honest, I've pretty much resigned myself to getting a new PC, as I've spent a week trying to fix this...I just don't want to lose my software licenses if possible.

    Also, some programs have "projects" which require that the folder/directory paths stay constant.

    I'm also afraid if I do a disk image, I'll bring along a software problem, if that is the problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Thanks Kens,

    I just updated the drivers, had two that were outdated...But the interesting thing is I found a driver to a program that was my first suspect in this. I did a system restore to a point before I added the program in question, I also did an unistall.

    But, that driver was still there when I just rechecked everything. So I deleted it and rebooted.

    I then tried doing something that caused the BSOD a few times and didn't have a problem.

    I'll keep my fingers crossed...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    No luck...Same memory_management error from the BSOD.
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    • Profile picture of the author Customerservice
      Hi Kurt, try these options below. Some you have tried so leave but try the reset. Hope they help you.

      • Newly installed software - Newly installed software could cause the issue. The are certain programs that don't work well if they are both installed like Norton AntiVirus and McAfee Virus Scan. This can cause your computer to experience a Blue Screen of Death. To resolve this issue one of the programs must be removed. In other words see what you installed or did exactly before this blue screen came up and undo it. If you are able to log in simply remove just installed program through Add/Remove Programs in the Control Panel. If you are not able to log in try Safe Mode, otherwise do the next step.
      • Software errors - Some software or driver installed on your PC can have errors or it malfunctions in some way which can randomly cause this issue. Again note exactly when it happens to have a clue where to look for the problem.
      • Hardware problem or errors - It can happen when some of your hardware malfunctions or you removed it during Windows operation or newly installed hardware is not supported by the current Windows. See what exactly you did with the hardware before it happened and undo or replace it.
      • Defective Memory Sticks (RAM)- Try to remove the RAM out of the slots and if possible replace them or you can try to swap them around. Be sure to push them firmly into the slot when you replace them otherwise you can burn them (it happened to me few times, some contacts of the memory stick can get literally burned). You can try clean their contacts as well, in many cases it helped!
      • Startup errors - System files can be corrupted or the hard drive can have errors or bad clusters, use recovery console to fix it. If Blue Screen of Death occurs randomly and you can log into windows then schedule Error Checking of your partition to the next reboot, you can find this option in My Computer - Local Disc (C - right click - Properties - Tools - click Check Now in Error Checking section and select all options in the pop up window, press ok. Then reboot your PC.
        Note: your Hard Drive can be bad or dying you can check your hard drives performance.
      • Removable drives/USB Drives - Sometimes USB connected devices may cause the issue. Make sure that the driver for these devices is properly updated.
      • Computer or processor overheating - Your computer can overheat if it does not have the proper ventilation. Make sure the hardware and heat sinks are not cluttered with dust, use vacuum and brush to clean up the inside. Double check that there is a good air flow through the processor's heat sink. Check the processor temperature under Hardware Monitor or PC's Health Status sections in the BIOS. It can be that the temperature is still high (above 55-60 Celsius in idle state) after cleaning the pc so you may need to take off the processor heat sink and reapply the new thermal paste. If then the temperature is still high you will need to update the BIOS. Google for your exact motherboard and see the manufacturer instructions for updating the BIOS.
      • Defective hard drive or unrecoverable errors - In the case there are some unrecoverable errors your last resort is to do repair installation of Windows or reinstall the Windows. Sometimes the hard drive is just corrupted. No matter what you do even reinstalling the Windows, the Blue Screen of Death still comes up. In this case you need to buy a new hard drive and reinstall the Windows. Remember to have a back up.
      These are the common reasons for this screen to appear. The Blue Screen of Death is one of those things, where because of its name, it sounds worst than it really is. Restarting the computer can usually go away because sometimes the issue is caused by temp files or programs that are hung up. Doing this as well as the tips above will get you back up and running quickly.
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      • Profile picture of the author benlin910
        Originally Posted by Customerservice View Post

        Hi Kurt, try these options below. Some you have tried so leave but try the reset. Hope they help you.

        • Newly installed software - Newly installed software could cause the issue. The are certain programs that don't work well if they are both installed like Norton AntiVirus and McAfee Virus Scan. This can cause your computer to experience a Blue Screen of Death. To resolve this issue one of the programs must be removed. In other words see what you installed or did exactly before this blue screen came up and undo it. If you are able to log in simply remove just installed program through Add/Remove Programs in the Control Panel. If you are not able to log in try Safe Mode, otherwise do the next step.
        • Software errors - Some software or driver installed on your PC can have errors or it malfunctions in some way which can randomly cause this issue. Again note exactly when it happens to have a clue where to look for the problem.
        • Hardware problem or errors - It can happen when some of your hardware malfunctions or you removed it during Windows operation or newly installed hardware is not supported by the current Windows. See what exactly you did with the hardware before it happened and undo or replace it.
        • Defective Memory Sticks (RAM)- Try to remove the RAM out of the slots and if possible replace them or you can try to swap them around. Be sure to push them firmly into the slot when you replace them otherwise you can burn them (it happened to me few times, some contacts of the memory stick can get literally burned). You can try clean their contacts as well, in many cases it helped!
        • Startup errors - System files can be corrupted or the hard drive can have errors or bad clusters, use recovery console to fix it. If Blue Screen of Death occurs randomly and you can log into windows then schedule Error Checking of your partition to the next reboot, you can find this option in My Computer - Local Disc (C - right click - Properties - Tools - click Check Now in Error Checking section and select all options in the pop up window, press ok. Then reboot your PC.
          Note: your Hard Drive can be bad or dying you can check your hard drives performance.
        • Removable drives/USB Drives - Sometimes USB connected devices may cause the issue. Make sure that the driver for these devices is properly updated.
        • Computer or processor overheating - Your computer can overheat if it does not have the proper ventilation. Make sure the hardware and heat sinks are not cluttered with dust, use vacuum and brush to clean up the inside. Double check that there is a good air flow through the processor's heat sink. Check the processor temperature under Hardware Monitor or PC's Health Status sections in the BIOS. It can be that the temperature is still high (above 55-60 Celsius in idle state) after cleaning the pc so you may need to take off the processor heat sink and reapply the new thermal paste. If then the temperature is still high you will need to update the BIOS. Google for your exact motherboard and see the manufacturer instructions for updating the BIOS.
        • Defective hard drive or unrecoverable errors - In the case there are some unrecoverable errors your last resort is to do repair installation of Windows or reinstall the Windows. Sometimes the hard drive is just corrupted. No matter what you do even reinstalling the Windows, the Blue Screen of Death still comes up. In this case you need to buy a new hard drive and reinstall the Windows. Remember to have a back up.
        These are the common reasons for this screen to appear. The Blue Screen of Death is one of those things, where because of its name, it sounds worst than it really is. Restarting the computer can usually go away because sometimes the issue is caused by temp files or programs that are hung up. Doing this as well as the tips above will get you back up and running quickly.
        THANKS FOR SHARING.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Thanks everyone for your help...I've spent too much time trying to fix this and have tried almost everything mentioned, plus. Checked the ram to see if it was loose, cleaned out the fans and vents, etc. Updated drivers, ran multiple memory tests, removed all non-essential peripherals, etc.

    I'm cutting my losses and think I'm going to go with this:
    Toshiba Satellite L675D S7016 173 Widescreen Laptop Computer With AMD Turion II Dual Core P520 Processor by Office Depot

    It's a new laptop with 17 inch monitor and 4 gigs of RAM for $529...4 gigs of ram is $200.
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    • Profile picture of the author AFI
      My advice would be to upgrade to a new computer and forget about trying to fix the old one. Computers are super cheap nowadays and you'll just be pulling your hair out replacing the memory, replacing other hardware, diagnosing software...etc.

      I say get all of the data off of it and then run it over with your car. It will be more gratifiying!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    OK...Here's the next problem.

    My PC now is 32 bit. All my stuff is backed up on an external USB HD. All the new PCs seem to be 64 bit.

    If I get a new PC, how do I get an extrenal hard drive that works for both 32 bit and 64 bit?

    I don't think I can burn a DVD without my present PC crashing...Plus I don't trust CD/DVDs.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      OK...Here's the next problem.

      My PC now is 32 bit. All my stuff is backed up on an external USB HD. All the new PCs seem to be 64 bit.

      If I get a new PC, how do I get an extrenal hard drive that works for both 32 bit and 64 bit?

      I don't think I can burn a DVD without my present PC crashing...Plus I don't trust CD/DVDs.
      Actually, the 64bit computers should be fully compatible with 32 bit. And MOST external drive options now use USB which is basically hardware agnostic(Doesn't know, doesn't care).

      OH, and 32 bit software will run on the 64bit processors EXACTLY the same way, right down to the OS. If you get a 64 bit OS, the software is likely to still run as well, as long as your current OS is Windows NT based. That is every OS from 2000 on, except "ME"(AKA Millenium Edition).

      Luckily, INTEL has just too much going with the 8086 family, so even the latest processors default to 8086 compatibility and use the 80386 code as a basis for extended operations. AMD had to do the same. SOME hardware, like memory, may be based on the bus size, but most other stuff won't be.
      Even with MEMORY, the first computerrs on the market, like Apple and the IBM PC/XT/AT used ***BIT*** memory(Each chip handled 1 data bit). Apple did it in groups of 8 because they were eight bit, and IBM did it in groups of 9 because they output 8 bits with parity. Then the byte wide(8/9) memory modules appeared, and they even used those for 32 bit. That is why some computers needed you to add 2 or 4 modules together.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Hey Kim and All,

    I'm begining to think is it faulty memory, despite the tests.

    I'm supposed to have 4 memory slots, but when I opened the box, I only could find two, each with a stick of RAM.

    Should I remove one stick and then see if that the helps? Then remove the other, and replace it with the first, if taking out the first doesn't work?

    Are there any precautions I need to know about? (Other than being grounded?)
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Hey Kim and All,

      I'm begining to think is it faulty memory, despite the tests.

      I'm supposed to have 4 memory slots, but when I opened the box, I only could find two, each with a stick of RAM.

      Should I remove one stick and then see if that the helps? Then remove the other, and replace it with the first, if taking out the first doesn't work?

      Are there any precautions I need to know about? (Other than being grounded?)
      About the 2 vs. 4 slots, the other two may be located elsewhere, or hard wired.

      Removing one, as I said earlier, might not even be possible, if one doesn't fit the whole databus, the computer will crash, not detect any of that memory, or give an error. Some people DO have luck with swapping though. So you can try. The three major precautions are... 1. KEEP GROUNDED(yeah, I know you said that ) 2. Try not to touch the metal traces, ESPECIALLY not the fingers on the part that connects to the computer. That further limits the chance of damage, and reduces the chances for corrosion(This can take YEARS, but it has been known to happen). 3. Make sure it locks in correctly. The ones I have seen lately snap, and the board generally ends up between the middle of the two fasteners.

      Also, if you get the same error, maybe it will be at a different location. If so, one of the modules is probably bad.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    On one hand, I don't want to lose the use of all the software I've bought and paid for....On the other hand, I don't want to import old problems to a new PC.
    Having encountered the bsod as most will at some time i learned to create a folder called system applications / In that i now add a sub folder and save every app i upload to my computer (this also includes a email folder where i save all of the license agreements and other info needed) / this then is saved to normal backup along with the rest of the files.

    As happened with a recent computer crash / and as mentioned its easier to buy a new computer / it was just importing the back up folders to my documents / then opening my system app folder and re installing all of the apps again.

    Not sure if it helps this time but made life easy here for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Steve pretty much said it all.
    Of course the problem is both sticks of memory could be bad. If swapping it out doesnt work, I would buy one new stick and try it. Cheaper than a new computer . ( Not that getting a new pc isn't always fun)

    And yes, it can test good and still be bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    BTW, I have an AMD processor and if it isn't RAM, I'm guessing the CPU is over-heating.

    I ran ChkDsk and it seems everything is OK with the hard drive.

    I had a power outage here about the time BSODs starting coming often...The power went off, then immediately back on. I have a surge protector, but...

    Town is about an hour drive each way and $20 in gas, and if the RAM doesn't fix the problem I won't be able to use it in the new PCs, as this uses 240-pin DDR2 DIMM and new ones seem to use DDR3 now.

    So...Being the poker player I am (was), I need the "odds"...Is there a 25% or better chance that updating the RAM will work? If so, it's probaby a good investment. If not, I'm better off getting a new PC.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Hey Kim and Steve...

    If I get a new stick, should it match the other two? Do I remove the old 2 and replace them with the new stick?

    Or do you exchange it with an old stick, but keep the other stick so there's always two sticks?
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I would take all all memory and put in the new one only.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    IF it will work with just one(CHECK THE MANUAL for MEMORY CONFIGURATIONS), then sure, get ONE. You could try JUST that one. If it works, try the other 2. The odds are near 100% at least 1 of them will work. The memory IS the most likely 100% electronic part to fail on the motherboard, disregarding heat. Not seeing your computer, I would say maybe 70% that it is the memory.

    BTW overheating of the CPU can take over a minute, and lead to RANDOM errors, and may start with things slowing down. I would say that the CPU is the most likely to be affected by HEAT. It generates the most, and controls everything else.

    And yeah, memory tests are made to be FAST! Memory can take over 5ms to fail. So if you did a simple read/write bit by bit, it would take FOREVER. You COULD do it page by page, but I don't think POSTs do that. And THAT would require writing patterns, so it could seem slow. Ideally it should have at LEAST all ones, all zeros, alternating ones starting from 0 and 2, so it would take over 4 times as long. I think the standard POST just writes a byte, reads, goes on. An advanced one would write a pattern over several K, or perhaps M, wait a little bit, read, and try patterns till exhausted.

    Memory is generally made to store info for like 2ms, so a failure at any point could mean that info after that is in danger. The computer is like a person being quickly given a string of numbers, and they keep repeating it so they don't forget. The repeating in the computer is called a [memory] refresh. If it takes too long, fails, or the memory is slightly out of spec, the memory will fail.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Update:

    Yesterday, I tried to start my PC and after tons of Startup "repairs" and system restores, it wouldn't start.

    So I figured I had nothing to lose and opened the box up and took out a stick of ram. It was a 50/50 shot, but one stick looked "weathered" and just didn't look right, so I yanked that one.

    My PC started right up and I haven't had any errors or BSOD for 24 hours. The longest it lasted before was about 3 hours, but also had lots of other problems like IE shutting down, etc.

    BTW, despite my literature saying I have 4 memory slots, I only have two. But, I did find a place on the mother board to solder two more slots.

    The moral of the story: It's easier to open the box and physically check/remove/replace ram than do all the other stuff I tried for about a week, including software tests of the ram. For the testing, I used both Windows ram test and an 3rd part tester.

    Thanks Kim and Steve...
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    • Profile picture of the author Customerservice
      I would treat yourself to a external hard drive. Then as a good practise everytime you do some work, saving pictures etc save it to the external drive as well as your pc.

      Hopefully your pc won't crash, but if it does you will be prepared.
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        • Profile picture of the author Customerservice
          Prices can range from £35 upwards. Easy to use as it has a USB connection. Depends were you are in the world thou for prices. They are light, fit in your pocket. I would go for a 500GB one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

    I checked it out using IE, but they have the DUMBEST "buy" system I've ever seen. You click on "buy" and they take you to the same page.

    So I switch over to Firefox just to check, and the links work.

    Unbelievable. Someone needs to fire their web designer.

    (Sorry, just in a really grumpy mood.)
    Now that's funny! You can't buy from Microsoft unless you use their biggest competitor's browser. ha ha
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  • Profile picture of the author Answers
    We always met this PC Questions and much of time we cannot solve them, so we need help from others. There are so many ask website like Yahoo Answers and Microsoft Answers, which one is your favorite? Since you submit your questions to them, you can get answers even in seconds, right? When I met problems with Internet Explorer, I always delete them and download a new browser. If I met problems with Monitor, I always send it to a fix store. When my computer is infected with the virus, I will reinstall the system, so I do not have antivirus software installed.
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    So many PC Questions,
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