Fake Ass Punks...

16 years ago

Clearly trying to get a freebie off you, don't worry about them, they float about everywhere from time to time

- Ange

Originally Posted by Matt Minto

Hey, I have a WSO up and so far I have had a lot of people contacting me saying they bought the WSO and giving their Transaction ID which is fake! Then I just recently had a guy saying he lost his receipt in his gmail account. I asked him for his PayPal email address and I never heard from him again.

Have any of you got some stories like this?

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GarrieWilson

16 years ago

Transaction IDs don't always match for buyers/sellers.

-g

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Rich Struck

16 years ago

I think you should be able to expose those people on the board but I don't make the rules...

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rcritchett 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich Struck

I think you should be able to expose those people on the board but I don't make the rules...

I agree.. and your quote in your signature is awesome Rich!
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redstanford

16 years ago

sad brief glimpse of why the World is becomming an even more dishonest place to live

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Jake Gray 16 years ago

Originally Posted by redstanford

sad brief glimpse of why the World is becomming an even more dishonest place to live

Extremely sad.

It's just ... Discouraging?
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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Minto

Hey, I have a WSO up and so far I have had a lot of people contacting me saying they bought the WSO and giving their Transaction ID which is fake!

"I'm sorry, I have no record of this transaction. Could you tell me the approximate date and time you bought the WSO?"

If they have a real transaction number, they also have a date and time. But since they don't, you'll never hear from them again.

This happens. Shrug it off.

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Colin Palfrey

16 years ago

Don't forget to do a search for the transaction ID, as the one they get by email isn't the same as the one you get in PayPal.

If you log in to PayPal and do a search for either the buyer or sellers ID, PayPal will show the transaction.

You probably know that already, but I thought I'd put it up for the newbies, who may just assume everyone is trying to trick them.

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JonWebContent

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Minto

Hey, I have a WSO up and so far I have had a lot of people contacting me saying they bought the WSO and giving their Transaction ID which is fake! Then I just recently had a guy saying he lost his receipt in his gmail account. I asked him for his PayPal email address and I never heard from him again.

Have any of you got some stories like this?

That sucks, but I'm not surprised. Lot's of dishonest people in internet marketing. I highly doubt this is uncommon practice on this forum.

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Matt Morgan 16 years ago

You get this behavious in different forms on Internet markeing purchases.

No point worrying too much about it, just move on.
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KenTom 16 years ago

I would focus on making money personally. There's always gonna be some crook around the corner that's too lazy to work for their own so they have to be devious!
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x3xsolxdierx3x

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Minto

Hey, I have a WSO up and so far I have had a lot of people contacting me saying they bought the WSO and giving their Transaction ID which is fake! Then I just recently had a guy saying he lost his receipt in his gmail account. I asked him for his PayPal email address and I never heard from him again.

Have any of you got some stories like this?

Here lies the darkside of the WSO forum.

Just wait until you have someone pay, proceed to download all your files, only to ask for a refund within 5 minutes.

P.s. Of the 3 Paypal disputes I had filed against me when I was actually selling my product (I give it away for free now), I won every single one of them. People will file disputes immediately after purchase, and won't even take the time to make a case for themselves. I would come back citing policies, etc. For the 2 people that contacted me directly asking for a refund, I gave it. If people went to Paypal directly, I fought it.

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paulie888

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Minto

Hey, I have a WSO up and so far I have had a lot of people contacting me saying they bought the WSO and giving their Transaction ID which is fake! Then I just recently had a guy saying he lost his receipt in his gmail account. I asked him for his PayPal email address and I never heard from him again.

Have any of you got some stories like this?

I have not come across a situation where the customer was outright lying about this, but there have been numerous cases where they actually did lose/misplace the product delivery email.

It is difficult to determine if the transaction ID is fake, because the transaction ID they have is different from what is in your Paypal account - the transaction ID they're given is a buyers' transaction ID, and this is separate and different from the transaction ID you have in your paypal account.

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GeorgR.

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Minto

Hey, I have a WSO up and so far I have had a lot of people contacting me saying they bought the WSO and giving their Transaction ID which is fake! Then I just recently had a guy saying he lost his receipt in his gmail account. I asked him for his PayPal email address and I never heard from him again.

Have any of you got some stories like this?

all the time...

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windowsmediaman

16 years ago

It has happened to me a few times but overall not so many.

People are just stupid sometimes, they clearly think you don't check the transaction ID numbers.

As stated, there are others way to keep this from not happening.

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tpw

16 years ago

This is good news really...

If your offer did not look attractive, they would not bother...

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vok

16 years ago

These people aren't so intelligent which is why they are resorting to robbing your WSO rarther than buying it because they failed to make money online in everything they do.

It's not a massive business problem but one that would wastes time unfortunately.

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Sheryl Polomka

16 years ago

I've never had anyone claim they've bought something when they haven't. I've had people PM me asking for reviews - some people just never read rules!!

As said above though, the transaction ID wont always match yours so it is best to search their name or email to see if they have purchased. Ask them for their Paypal email address and if they did buy it they'll be happy to give it to you.

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

I thought WSOs were specially put here for our members to get a unique (lower than publicly available) bargain.

Me too.

Except that any schmuck can search out a WSO in Google, click on it, hit the "buy" button... and get the WSO.

And the Warrior Forum gets more Google love than I do, so if someone's looking for my product - which is being sold both off and on the forum - the WSO comes up first. With a better price than my sales page, so even if they do see my sales page, they come back to the Warrior Forum.

So if I put a sales page outside the forum, it's basically saying "hey, if you're stupid, pay a higher price for no good reason."

I don't like doing that to my customers. I think it's an arrogant, egotistical, jackass way to treat them. But the rules say I have to.

Which is why I honestly prefer to sell my products either HERE or ELSEWHERE, but not both. And it's also why I think the "offer a better price" rule on WSOs has become counterproductive and ignorant.

I'm aware that it didn't used to be, but it is now.

Sorry if this seems a little harsh, but I'm honestly very annoyed about this.

Thanks
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admin

Administrator 16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Me too.

Except that any schmuck can search out a WSO in Google, click on it, hit the "buy" button... and get the WSO.

And the Warrior Forum gets more Google love than I do, so if someone's looking for my product - which is being sold both off and on the forum - the WSO comes up first. With a better price than my sales page, so even if they do see my sales page, they come back to the Warrior Forum.

So if I put a sales page outside the forum, it's basically saying "hey, if you're stupid, pay a higher price for no good reason."

I don't like doing that to my customers. I think it's an arrogant, egotistical, jackass way to treat them. But the rules say I have to.

Which is why I honestly prefer to sell my products either HERE or ELSEWHERE, but not both. And it's also why I think the "offer a better price" rule on WSOs has become counterproductive and ignorant.

I'm aware that it didn't used to be, but it is now.

Sorry if this seems a little harsh, but I'm honestly very annoyed about this.

You're aware of what that didn't "used" to be?

It's been special offers since day one so I'm not sure what you think you're being aware of here.

It's a Special Offers section, it's not ignorant just because it doesn't fit in with your plans. Remove that and you have nothing more than a classified ad section.

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by admin

It's been special offers since day one so I'm not sure what you think you're being aware of here.

I'm aware that you didn't used to be able to look up a WSO in Google and buy it without being a registered user on the Warrior Forum.

The ignorant part is that I have to offer a better price on my WSO than I offer to the general public.

But a WSO is offered to the general public.

This makes no sense. Regardless of whether I drop the price for Warriors or raise the price for non-Warriors, Warriors and non-Warriors alike can get the Warrior price. And if I am dealing with a savvy consumer, this is how they shop for infoproducts online:

This product looks good. I would like to buy it.

I will look for the headline of the sales page in a search engine.

Then I will look for the product name in a search engine.

Then I will search for the product name on Tradebit.

Because many products I would like to buy have sold MRR or PLR, and are available for less elsewhere.

I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is the person who is so excited that they buy immediately at normal price, then tell a friend about it... only to hear that they paid more for it, because there was a WSO.

Now, I like the idea of giving Warriors a special deal. I'd like to do that. But a WSO is not a special offer only for Warriors anymore. It's a special deal for anyone who comes to the Warrior forum. They don't have to be registered. They don't have to be logged in. They don't have to be Warriors at all. They can be anyone.

And I don't mind that. What I mind is having the offer somewhere else at a higher price, where innocent customers will be charged more for no good reason. They don't deserve that.

I don't like this rule. I wish it would go away. But I'm not in charge, and that is perfectly fine; if I want to be in charge, I can go start my own forum and have my own "special offer" section that nobody cares about or buys in.

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

And if I am dealing with a savvy consumer, this is how they shop for infoproducts online:

This product looks good. I would like to buy it.

I will look for the headline of the sales page in a search engine.

Then I will look for the product name in a search engine.

Then I will search for the product name on Tradebit.

Because many products I would like to buy have sold MRR or PLR, and are available for less elsewhere.

You are assuming that most consumers are as savvy as you... In some regards, I am not as savvy as you are.

How many people outside the IM forums would know anything about MRR or PLR? Not many.

How many people outside or inside the forum would be away of Tradebit? Not many.

And I still believe that most buyers recommending the product to a friend would send them a URL and the product name.

And if someone does find it on Warrior Forum, the product was on "Special", i.e. Warrior Special Offers...

And if someone asks about it after purchase, tell them you will give them the discount offered to others....

I am not ashamed to say I test price points at the WF, and sell outside the forum for more money... It has only been an issue once... I gave them an option of cash back OR a discount on another product... In that case, they took the discount on the second product...

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Cnotey

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I'm aware that you didn't used to be able to look up a WSO in Google and buy it without being a registered user on the Warrior Forum.

The ignorant part is that I have to offer a better price on my WSO than I offer to the general public.

But a WSO is offered to the general public.

This makes no sense. Regardless of whether I drop the price for Warriors or raise the price for non-Warriors, Warriors and non-Warriors alike can get the Warrior price. And if I am dealing with a savvy consumer, this is how they shop for infoproducts online:

This product looks good. I would like to buy it.

I will look for the headline of the sales page in a search engine.

Then I will look for the product name in a search engine.

Then I will search for the product name on Tradebit.

Because many products I would like to buy have sold MRR or PLR, and are available for less elsewhere.

I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is the person who is so excited that they buy immediately at normal price, then tell a friend about it... only to hear that they paid more for it, because there was a WSO.

Now, I like the idea of giving Warriors a special deal. I'd like to do that. But a WSO is not a special offer only for Warriors anymore. It's a special deal for anyone who comes to the Warrior forum. They don't have to be registered. They don't have to be logged in. They don't have to be Warriors at all. They can be anyone.

And I don't mind that. What I mind is having the offer somewhere else at a higher price, where innocent customers will be charged more for no good reason. They don't deserve that.

I don't like this rule. I wish it would go away. But I'm not in charge, and that is perfectly fine; if I want to be in charge, I can go start my own forum and have my own "special offer" section that nobody cares about or buys in.

I would say I agree here. Basically anyone can start a profile and buy the WSO at a cheaper price. From an outsider's perspective, maybe it would work better if only War Room Members could buy WSO's at the reduced price?

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Cnotey

I would say I agree here. Basically anyone can start a profile and buy the WSO at a cheaper price. From an outsider's perspective, maybe it would work better if only War Room Members could buy WSO's at the reduced price?

If you restrict purchases to War Room Members only, then that would knock a lot of sales to nothing. Not a good option.

Tell Google to ignore WSO's forum, maybe a good option, but I still think Caliban is looking at this issue through WF Tunnel Vision...

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Cnotey

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

If you restrict purchases to War Room Members only, then that would knock a lot of sales to nothing. Not a good option.

Tell Google to ignore WSO's forum, maybe a good option, but I still think Caliban is looking at this issue through WF Tunnel Vision...

Well what I'm saying is that anyone can buy it, but if you aren't a War Room Member, you would have to pay the full price. This would also encourage people to upgrade to War Room Status, which will help the forum out too.

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Cnotey

Well what I'm saying is that anyone can buy it, but if you aren't a War Room Member, you would have to pay the full price. This would also encourage people to upgrade to War Room Status, which will help the forum out too.

There is a neat idea that I could get behind.

But I think it would be a nightmare to implement.

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paulie888

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

There is a neat idea that I could get behind.

But I think it would be a nightmare to implement.

I'm thinking this would present all kinds of logistical issues, and it'd probably not be worth the effort.

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KenThompson 16 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

I'm thinking this would present all kinds of logistical issues, and it'd probably not be worth the effort.

That's two of us who think that, at least who have said so.

Why don't you all put a link to where people can get a great discount?

If it's causing this much pain and heartache - end it... 5 minutes. No?

Just tryin' to help all my buddies. :rolleyes:

Ken
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goindeep

16 years ago

I recently payed for something which i actually didnt want and only purchased cos i was drunk..

I was honest and open with the dude and he gave my money back. He probably thinks im a scumbag, but at the end of the day if your honest no one should have a problem dealing with you.

I HATE SCUMBAGS.

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu

I recently payed for something which i actually didnt want and only purchased cos i was drunk..

I was honest and open with the dude and he gave my money back. He probably thinks im a scumbag, but at the end of the day if your honest no one should have a problem dealing with you.

I HATE SCUMBAGS.

Self-loathing often leads to excessive-drinking... LOL

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goindeep 16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Self-loathing often leads to excessive-drinking... LOL

Your witty remarks are no match for my honesty... The chicken or the egg. lol.
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genietoast 16 years ago

I'm sorry you had such a rough time with your customers, but I have to admit, the title of this thread makes me laugh every time I see it.
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traderbenji

16 years ago

I'm yet to release my own WSO but I have bought many others, I believe that some of you are missing the point. If a customer buys your product and they get great value for what they've spent then they will buy again, whether that is through a WSO or through your website/email sales page when you release your next offer. If they hadn't bought the WSO then they wouldn't already be a customer, as the saying goes "its harder to get a new customer then retain an old one". And plus people like to buy from someone they have a relationship with. Bring on the WSO's I say.

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Kay King

16 years ago

It's because under most conditions, the WSO converts better than an external page (largely because of a lower price). So the WSO vendor directs all his traffic to the WSO, where it will convert better.

It's the vendor's choice if he directs all his traffic to the WSO. If he wants sales on his site as well - he wouldn't send all traffic here. But I wonder if the better conversion is due to price - or to high volume and high targeting of WF visitors?

The current use of the WSO forum is the inevitable result of a forum where offers convert better. There's no traffic source I can't capture in a WSO. I don't even really need the external page. So the external page gets no traffic, makes no sales, and is ultimately just a figurehead to prove the price is higher outside the WSO forum.

I think that's what many external site pages are - no doubt about it. But many WSOs are only sold in the WSO section so no sales page at all.

What would sales be if you launched the product with a sales page - and no WSO. Would the product sell at the regular price? Would the sales and traffic be anywhere near what you get from the WSO? Could it be the number of sales on the WF would more than make up for a somewhat lower price?

In the past (don't know about now) sellers could set the WSO price to their net after affiliate commission because they weren't paying those commissions on WSO sales. They weren't losing anything with the lower WSO pricing - but were gaining sales and exposure.

Lower price is a requirement - but it doesn't have to be a super low price. If the product is good, the discount doesn't have to be huge for the WSO.

I understand the concerns but it's a give-to-get scenario to me. Limiting the number of people allowed to buy WSOs limits sales for all sellers. Using the same "regular" pricing makes the section just an ad section and loses the sense of community and safety (illusory, at best) that leads to more sales.

kay

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Jeremy Kelsall 16 years ago

A couple of things without going through and quoting a bunch of stuff

CD - There is a simple solution to your problem. Don't run WSO's if you are worried about offending your non Warrior Forum customers who pay a higher price.

Remove the payment button from your WSO when you make the product live and available to the general public.

Instead of a lower price, make your WSO package "different" - add some bonuses or something that makes it different and a "better deal" for WF members.

As a product seller though, why do you care where the sales come from?

If I have an offer here, and on my own sales page...I could care less where people actually buy it from. If I'm offering a lower price here, I've already demonstrated the fact that I'm willing to sell the product for whatever price I've assigned it in the WSO...I don't care how many people buy it from there. I don't care if they are warriors or random people searching the internet. Hell, I optimize my copy to TARGET the search engines more than half of the time.

For those of you that are saying that you send your non WarriorForum customers to the warriorforum to look at your offer...what in the world is wrong with you? LOL

Are you that confident that your copy is better than the other hundreds of WSO's running?

Are you that confident that Once you send that potential customer here that they are going to buy your product and not see something else they like and buy it instead.

I have a list of warriorforum members - when we cut a WSO loose, they get an email to come here.

Then I have a list that was built outside the forum....they get a link to a sales page with a higher price.

IF they decide to search for reviews and end up finding the warriorforum and the better price...that doesn't bother me...I don't know why it would bother anyone?

As to the OP - out of all the products I've sold here, I don't think I've ever had someone send me a PM or email claiming to have bought my product when they really didn't.

I'm wondering how many views you've gotten to your WSO from this thread though
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GarrieWilson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

If you restrict purchases to War Room Members only, then that would knock a lot of sales to nothing. Not a good option.

Tell Google to ignore WSO's forum, maybe a good option, but I still think Caliban is looking at this issue through WF Tunnel Vision...

I see Calibans point and if I was Allen, I would only allow logged in members to see that section. Making it a true WSO. I would also stop the affiliate program nonsense.

-g

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KenThompson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

I see Calibans point and if I was Allen, I would only allow logged in members to see that section. Making it a true WSO. I would also stop the affiliate program nonsense.

-g

But Caliban's point has been solved.

He can solve it in 10 minutes, maybe less.

If a significant number of people who run WSOs are up in arms, then
maybe Allen should stop and think - maybe, maybe not.

But one person? Really?

Ken

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

But Caliban's point has been solved.

He can solve it in 10 minutes, maybe less.

If a significant number of people who run WSOs are up in arms, then
maybe Allen should stop and think - maybe, maybe not.

But one person? Really?

Ken

Of course, he could also put a different title or no title on it in the WSO section, and only give it a proper title on his own website. That would resolve the matter too...

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GarrieWilson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

But Caliban's point has been solved.

He can solve it in 10 minutes, maybe less.

If a significant number of people who run WSOs are up in arms, then
maybe Allen should stop and think - maybe, maybe not.

But one person? Really?

Ken

No he can't. If he links to the WSO, it's no longer special. If affiliates promote it, it's no longer special.

It's also not one person. Others have said so many times.

When I use to do WSOs, I didn't leave it up like they do now so it wasn't that big of a deal. Now, you have people who only market here and keep the WSOs open 24/7/365 and don't even have sites. Or have shill sites. MANY people make the bulk of their incomes running WSOs. It's easy to figure most of them out.

-g

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Michael Mayo

16 years ago

CD, I agree that the offers here in the WSO section are not limited to
Warriors only and that also drives me crazy at times although, the exposure/traffic
the WSO section receives more than makes up for it.

The fact that people arriving at my site get charged more for the same product
allows me the opportunity to send them a rebate/cash back and inform
them of the Warrior Forum. I then give them the option to become a
Member of the WF to receive my Special Offers in the future even though
they are now on my list.

Has it worked for me in the past? I've not tracked it. I may do so in the
future just to see and know the answer.

Originally Posted by Cnotey

I would say I agree here. Basically anyone can start a profile and buy the WSO at a cheaper price. From an outsider's perspective, maybe it would work better if only War Room Members could buy WSO's at the reduced price?

That's it! Lets cut out 98% of the possible
prospects. :rolleyes:

Have a Great Day!
Michael

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Cnotey

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

CD, I agree that the offers here in the WSO section are not limited to
Warriors only and that also drives me crazy at times although, the exposure/traffic
the WSO section receives more than makes up for it.

The fact that people arriving at my site get charged more for the same product
allows me the opportunity to send them a rebate/cash back and inform
them of the Warrior Forum. I then give them the option to become a
Member of the WF to receive my Special Offers in the future even though
they are now on my list.

Has it worked for me in the past? I've not tracked it. I may do so in the
future just to see and know the answer.

That's it! Lets cut out 98% of the possible
prospects. :rolleyes:

Have a Great Day!
Michael

Why does this cut out 98% of possible prospects? I think maybe you are mis-reading my post. What I'm saying is that anyone can buy the WSO, just WRM get the discount WSO price. Regular members would have to pay the full price. It's just a suggestion, no reason to be sarcastic.

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Michael Mayo

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Cnotey

Well what I'm saying is that anyone can buy it, but if you aren't a War Room Member, you would have to pay the full price. This would also encourage people to upgrade to War Room Status, which will help the forum out too.

I read your post corectly and still feel the same way!
Presently you don't have to be a Warrior Forum Member to purchase a WSO.

This allows everyone that finds the WSO via the search engines the ability
to purchase a WSO.

Limiting it to War Room Members would decrease the number of prospects
that could see the special offer.

Originally Posted by Cnotey

Why does this cut out 98% of possible prospects? I think maybe you are mis-reading my post. What I'm saying is that anyone can buy the WSO, just WRM get the discount WSO price. Regular members would have to pay the full price. It's just a suggestion, no reason to be sarcastic.

I wasn't being sarcastic. Just realistic. You would loose the majority of the
traffic if Allen limited WSO's to Members only and more so if it were limited
to only War Room Members.

If you are saying that there should be two seperate prices, one for WF
Members and one for War Room Members then you should become a War
Room Member Now! Why? Because, War Room Members give away all kinds
of WSO/Products in the War Room right now! Think about it!

Hope that Helps,
Have a Great Day!
Michael

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Frank Donovan

16 years ago

In several previous discussions about the WSO section, I (and others) have put forward the suggestion that WSOs should be available only to signed-in members. That this hasn't happened, is probably because Allen thinks it's not a desirable option.

Perhaps his reasoning is that he wants to keep the potential market for WSOs as large as possible both as a benefit for experienced, contributing members and as a viable, low cost entry point for new marketers.

In any case, it's his decision and further discussion is probably futile.

It seems to me that the main issue voiced in this thread could be solved by not running a parallel offer, but either taking an existing product and switching it to a WSO at a reduced price, or starting with a limited time WSO and then later raising the price on one's own site.

Frank

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

It seems to me that the main issue voiced in this thread could be solved by not running a parallel offer, but either taking an existing product and switching it to a WSO at a reduced price, or starting with a limited time WSO and then later raising the price on one's own site.

Those are the two things I've found most acceptable. I have experimented with all kinds of things, including parallel offers, and I generally leave things run instead of altering them... but I've been messing around trying to find the Right Thing for over a year, and it's been really frustrating.

Ultimately, it's my issue to solve, and it's up to me to find what works for my business. It's been recommended that my WSO be something like $10 and then my non-WSO be $10.01, but I just find that offensive... in general, trying to get away with the technicality gets you in trouble with WSOs, from what I've seen. So I don't like straddling that line and basically giving the WSO rules the finger. I'd much rather have rules that let me charge $10 in both places.

And failing that, I'll have to find a different solution. I don't intend to crusade all over the board forever about this.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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Frank Donovan

16 years ago

Caliban,

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Ultimately, it's my issue to solve, and it's up to me to find what works for my business. It's been recommended that my WSO be something like $10 and then my non-WSO be $10.01, but I just find that offensive... in general, trying to get away with the technicality gets you in trouble with WSOs, from what I've seen. So I don't like straddling that line and basically giving the WSO rules the finger. I'd much rather have rules that let me charge $10 in both places.

Have you tried offering a Warrior-only bonus with your WSO? That would be more in keeping with the spirit of the rule. And if any of your regular customers complained, you could legitimately say it was a stipulation for the WSO listing (and maybe send them the bonus as a concession

).

Frank

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CDarklock 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Have you tried offering a Warrior-only bonus with your WSO? That would be more in keeping with the spirit of the rule.

It would, but not so long ago there were a few Warriors up in arms about a particular vendor who had taken his externally marketed site-flipping course and started a WSO at the same price with a special Warrior-only bonus.

The big argument was that this was not a special offer, but a special bonus.

I have since been told (just hearsay, I know) that Allen ruled a WSO must have a lower price. Can't just be a better deal. Lower price, full-stop.

Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. But there's an awful lot of grey area in the WSO rules (by design, I know) and I try to stay out of it.
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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Cnotey

Basically anyone can start a profile and buy the WSO at a cheaper price.

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the way they don't have to start a profile - they can just buy.

My best solution to this is to disable all links in WSOs unless the viewer is logged in. You can read the sales page all you want, but you can't buy until you log in, and you can't log in until you register. Google can still index it. People can still lurk to find WSOs. But if they want to buy, they have to actually be Warriors.

But this doesn't happen all by itself. Someone has to do it, which will take time and cost money and probably introduce bugs which need to be fixed. And I can't deny that when you put a registration, confirmation, and login process between a prospect and his purchase... conversion is going to suffer.

That's the real impact here. If we don't let non-Warriors impulse buy in the WSO forum, then WSO vendors will sell fewer WSOs. And that isn't exactly good for them, so they don't want that done.

So even my best solution doesn't really work. The only solution that makes sense is to remove the ultimatum that the WSO price can't be offered to the general public.

I am completely, 100% behind a rule that a WSO price must be the lowest offered to the general public. It's a subtle change, but an important one.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the way they don't have to start a profile - they can just buy.

My best solution to this is to disable all links in WSOs unless the viewer is logged in. You can read the sales page all you want, but you can't buy until you log in, and you can't log in until you register. Google can still index it. People can still lurk to find WSOs. But if they want to buy, they have to actually be Warriors.

But this doesn't happen all by itself. Someone has to do it, which will take time and cost money and probably introduce bugs which need to be fixed. And I can't deny that when you put a registration, confirmation, and login process between a prospect and his purchase... conversion is going to suffer.

That's the real impact here. If we don't let non-Warriors impulse buy in the WSO forum, then WSO vendors will sell fewer WSOs. And that isn't exactly good for them, so they don't want that done.

So even my best solution doesn't really work. The only solution that makes sense is to remove the ultimatum that the WSO price can't be offered to the general public.

I am completely, 100% behind a rule that a WSO price must be the lowest offered to the general public. It's a subtle change, but an important one.

I have seen it estimated that if we count the lurkers who never get an account at the WF, then the marketplace is at least twice its current size.

If those estimates are correct, you are suggesting to block half the marketplace from the WSO's...

Just saying....

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Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)

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ruch1v

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Me too.

Except that any schmuck can search out a WSO in Google, click on it, hit the "buy" button... and get the WSO.

And the Warrior Forum gets more Google love than I do, so if someone's looking for my product - which is being sold both off and on the forum - the WSO comes up first. With a better price than my sales page, so even if they do see my sales page, they come back to the Warrior Forum.

So if I put a sales page outside the forum, it's basically saying "hey, if you're stupid, pay a higher price for no good reason."

I don't like doing that to my customers. I think it's an arrogant, egotistical, jackass way to treat them. But the rules say I have to.

Which is why I honestly prefer to sell my products either HERE or ELSEWHERE, but not both. And it's also why I think the "offer a better price" rule on WSOs has become counterproductive and ignorant.

I'm aware that it didn't used to be, but it is now.

Sorry if this seems a little harsh, but I'm honestly very annoyed about this.

Decent backlinking can beat out the warrior forum easily, especially if you have an exact match domain, if you need any tips on this PM me

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Me too.

Except that any schmuck can search out a WSO in Google, click on it, hit the "buy" button... and get the WSO.

And the Warrior Forum gets more Google love than I do, so if someone's looking for my product - which is being sold both off and on the forum - the WSO comes up first. With a better price than my sales page, so even if they do see my sales page, they come back to the Warrior Forum.

So if I put a sales page outside the forum, it's basically saying "hey, if you're stupid, pay a higher price for no good reason."

I don't like doing that to my customers. I think it's an arrogant, egotistical, jackass way to treat them. But the rules say I have to.

Which is why I honestly prefer to sell my products either HERE or ELSEWHERE, but not both. And it's also why I think the "offer a better price" rule on WSOs has become counterproductive and ignorant.

I'm aware that it didn't used to be, but it is now.

Sorry if this seems a little harsh, but I'm honestly very annoyed about this.

Dude, for someone as bright as you are, sometimes you wear horse blinders in your journey.

The thing is that most people who find your product are not going to find it by searching Google for, "product name".

The only people looking for "product name" in Google are those who are looking for product reviews, because your sales copy failed to deliver the consumer any real confidence in your product.

Most people who are going to find your sales page on your website are going to find it because they followed a link or a recommendation from someone to buy your product.

And if the sales page delivers the goods, they will buy on your page and buy now.

I suspect you have been trapped in the Warrior Forum box for too long...

Most of your customers are WF members... And that blinds you to the possibility that there is a big community of prospects outside the forums.

The only people who are not going to buy on the sales page on your website are going to be those people who are Warriors. Warriors may still buy on your page, but then they might say, "Hey, that is Caliban. I wonder if he ran this product as a WSO first?"

General consumers will never have such a thing go through their minds...

They will see your product, and if they like it, they will buy it at whatever price you offer it on your own site -- if you have successfully shown them that your offer is worthy of what you are asking for it.

There is of course that other crowd that hangs out in other forums, who expect all things in this world to have no value. And as I know you know, if your product is good, then it is already available for free download there.

* Warriors will seek out your products on the Warrior Forum first.

* Kiddie will seek out your products in the kiddie forums.

* And regular consumers will buy from your website, provided that you write your copy well.

You may lose a few people at your own website, when people grab your title and go to the search engines with your "product name", but chances are if you don't catch those folks in the Warrior Forum WSO section, you are going to lose them altogether anyhow, because you were unable to move them off the fence.

The only thing "counterproductive" about Warrior Special Offers is the fact that you wear blinders where they are concerned, preventing you from seeing the bigger picture.

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Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)

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paulie888

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Most people who are going to find your sales page on your website are going to find it because they followed a link or a recommendation from someone to buy your product.

And if the sales page delivers the goods, they will buy on your page and buy now.

I suspect you have been trapped in the Warrior Forum box for too long...

Most of your customers are WF members... And that blinds you to the possibility that there is a big community of prospects outside the forums.

Bill, I couldn't have said it better myself. It's easy to get trapped in the mentality that the Warrior forum is all there is to internet marketing, especially if you've spent any length of time in here.

As big as this forum is, it just accounts for a tiny portion of the IM marketplace, and there are people out there who are making hundreds of thousands (if not millions of dollars) without ever having heard of the Warrior Forum or WSOs, for that matter.

Your post is a great reminder to all of us that there is a vast internet out there, and it is all too easy to get "tunnel vision" and think that this forum is all there is to internet marketing.

You have touched on some aspects of the marketplace outside this forum, but one area which is absolutely massive and almost completely ignored by people in here is paid advertising.

The universe does not revolve around Google, contrary to what people in here think (they've probably been drinking too much of that Google Kool-aid), and people are able to make millions much more quickly by ramping things up at light-speed with some types of advertising that are so scalable it makes Google look like a kiddie playground.

Let's not overlook the vast opportunities that the internet presents to us and expand our horizons.

Paul

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

You have touched on some aspects of the marketplace outside this forum, but one area which is absolutely massive and almost completely ignored by people in here is paid advertising.

The universe does not revolve around Google, contrary to what people in here think (they've probably been drinking too much of that Google kool-aid), and people are able to make millions much more quickly by ramping things up at light-speed with some types of advertising that are so scalable it makes Google look like a kiddie playground.

Absolutely right.

The thing that amazes me most about the Google Kool-Aid drinkers is that they chase it because it is "free traffic".

Yet the only way Google traffic can be considered "free traffic" is if they value their time and energy at "nothing".

That "free Google traffic" can be extremely expensive, when people start to put a real value on their time.

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paulie888

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Absolutely right.

The thing that amazes me most about the Google Kool-Aid drinkers is that they chase it because it is "free traffic".

Yet the only way Google traffic can be considered "free traffic" is if they value their time and energy at "nothing".

That "free Google traffic" can be extremely expensive, when people start to put a real value on their time.

Spot on again, Bill. They are being penny wise and pound foolish with this mentality, which can ultimately be very detrimental to their online business.

I've had this argument and debate with several friends and associates already in the past, and it seems like some people are so blinded to the fact that time is probably one of the most valuable assets they have, and they're throwing so much money (in the form of time) down the drain by slaving away for hours trying to get ranked on Google, when they could be spending literally pennies for impressions and clicks through paid advertising.

Some people treat their time like it was free and unlimited, when it's actually finite and very valuable. At some point in time when you expand your presence online, you'll inevitably find that your time is worth far more than the labor you put into "free" traffic, but so many people here refuse to even consider paid traffic, which is an absolute crying shame.

Paul

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Most of your customers are WF members... And that blinds you to the possibility that there is a big community of prospects outside the forums.

Wrong, Bill.

There are basically three groups of prospects.

1. Warriors who shop in the WSO forum.

2. Non-Warriors who shop elsewhere.

3. Non-Warriors who shop in the WSO forum.

I would like to give a special deal to group 1. That would be fine.

But if I can't give that special deal to group 2, then I don't want group 3 to get it either.

My entire objection to this rule is because so many prospects are not Warriors.

I'm not ignoring those prospects. In fact, it's the exact opposite: I am trying not to take unfair advantage of them, because I value and respect them as potential customers.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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Jake Gray

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Wrong, Bill.

There are basically three groups of prospects.

1. Warriors who shop in the WSO forum.

2. Non-Warriors who shop elsewhere.

3. Non-Warriors who shop in the WSO forum.

I would like to give a special deal to group 1. That would be fine.

But if I can't give that special deal to group 2, then I don't want group 3 to get it either.

My entire objection to this rule is because so many prospects are not Warriors.

I'm not ignoring those prospects. In fact, it's the exact opposite: I am trying not to take unfair advantage of them, because I value and respect them as potential customers.

Words of Wisdom..

LOL

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KenThompson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

But if I can't give that special deal to group 2, then I don't want group 3 to get it either.

My entire objection to this rule is because so many prospects are not Warriors.

I'm not ignoring those prospects. In fact, it's the exact opposite: I am trying not to take unfair advantage of them, because I value and respect them as potential customers.

But you can give that deal to Group 2. There is nothing stopping you from doing it.

You can solve this by putting a link on your outside sales page to your WSO, and explain they can get a discount at the WSO price.

That will take care of everything.

That is the most important thing, right? Not Allen's rules or how anybody feels about them. They are his. Nothing more to talk about regarding that.

But the most important things you stated can be taken care of.

Ken

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

You can solve this by putting a link on your outside sales page to your WSO

Go test it. I did. It's no solution.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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KenThompson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Go test it. I did. It's no solution.

What were the results of your test?

No one followed the link? No one found your site? Is that it? The WF
WSO outranks yout site? I did read your post, so I presume that is
the problem?

The WSOs outrank your site?

I don't see how this can easily be fixed to your particular liking without
harming the traffic to the forum.

But you said you cannot take care of group 2. You were a little general,
so not exactly sure why group 2 cannot be taken care of. Of course
realizing you won't reach everyone who falls into group 2.

Ken

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

What were the results of your test?

There was near-zero clickthru on the link. I issued a number of partial refunds.

Some people will say "well, those people deserve what they got," but I don't agree.

And besides, it was just my test. Run your own. Prove it to yourself.

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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers

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KenThompson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

There was near-zero clickthru on the link. I issued a number of partial refunds.

Some people will say "well, those people deserve what they got," but I don't agree.

And besides, it was just my test. Run your own. Prove it to yourself.

I do not run WSOs, you know that. So cute time can end.

Well... if there were zero click thrus, then the problem is not anywhere except
on the site. Right? That really is not a shot. But it's the truth. How can it not
be?

I would not say that about deserving. It was there, they had the opportunity
to get the discount. They chose not to do that.

You do not have to agree with it.

Well... perhaps other people who run WSOs can put a link and get sales from
their WSOs. Right?

Right. It's possible.

So you want Allen and the entire forum to jump through hoops to make you
happy?

That's the way it looks to me, but that's my perspective.

Ken

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CDarklock 16 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

I do not run WSOs, you know that. So cute time can end.

Then run two sales pages with different prices. On the one with the higher price, put a link to the other one and a promise of a lower price. Now drive traffic to it.

I don't think it's relevant that it's a WSO. I think what's relevant is that it's another click from where the prospect already is. Research from the early days of the web backs up this idea.

So you want Allen and the entire forum to jump through hoops to make you happy?

No. I want people to know I am not happy about this.

If nothing else, my customers will see that I'm willing to stand up and tell Allen I don't like this rule because it's bad for them. Not because it costs me money, or effort, or time. In fact, it's no big deal at all to put a higher price on some other sales page. Like you said, just stick a link on the page, and if they don't click it they get what they deserve.

But I don't like that. I don't think my customers do deserve that. It's easy for me to choose Allen's rules over my customers. It's less risky, I face less opposition, and in fact I've got sales pages out there with higher prices on them where customers might buy.

But I don't like having them out there, and I don't like having a rule that says they need to be. So I'm going to say that out loud.

And if you don't care, fine. If Allen doesn't care, fine. I do, and I might not be the only one. But even if I am, I think seeing me say this out loud might actually make a difference to my customers.

Because no matter what they might think about why I said this and whether I'm sincere, I did - at the very least - think about whether something was fair to them or not.
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"The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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Shazia Mirza

16 years ago

Some people are just.... weird, what can we say?

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Matt Morgan 16 years ago

Thread title

WSO Lying Customers

Change the title of this thread to:

WSO Warriors 'pretending' to be customers.

or

Fake WSO customers

Yours is WSO Lying customers, but if they havn't purchased (but pretending that they have) they are not customers are they?
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Ernie Lo

16 years ago

It's safe to say that these cheap *******s will never ever ever succeed online, I guess thats the only good to come out of this.

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paulie888

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

It's safe to say that these cheap *******s will never ever ever succeed online, I guess thats the only good to come out this.

You're absolutely right, Ernie. This reflects the overall mentality of the general public almost everywhere which has caused the current sad state of the world economy - many people have become consumers instead of producers of value. These cheap *******s will continually consume and never produce anything of value, and so as a result they'll never make anything of themselves online.

Paul

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Ernie Lo

16 years ago

Originally Posted by paulie888

You're absolutely right, Ernie. This reflects the overall mentality of the general public almost everywhere which has caused the current sad state of the world economy - people have become consumers instead of producers of value. These cheap *******s will continually consume and never produce anything of value, and so as a result they'll never make anything of themselves online.

Paul

Spot on Paul. I mean someone who has to serial refund or try and get a free product fraudulently obviously has no confidence in themselves nor the ability to have a longterm outlook which people need to run a successful business and would probably be too cheap to buy good hosting, domains etc.

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paulie888

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

Spot on Paul. I mean someone who has to serial refund or try and get a free product fraudulently obviously has no confidence in themselves nor the ability to have a longterm outlook which people need to run a successful business and would probably be too cheap to buy good hosting, domains etc.

Exactly Ernie, these are the same exact people who'll try to cut corners and search out free hosting, autoresponders and tools. Running a business is no walk in the park, and you need to have the right mindset and long-term outlook in order to succeed - having a "hit and run" type mentality can be very detrimental to success in IM and also elsewhere.

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bjgran 16 years ago

Hi:
I am a newbie -- and I'm so sorry to hear this is going on. I guess it's the same in everything you do. Retail stores have theft problems -- even from their own employees.
It seems that people want things for free -- but the amazing thing is that they seem to feel they're entitled to them. I've been through a couple of lawsuits in my life that cost me dearly, and it was nothing but GREED. Seems when you have something of value everyone wants to try and take it from you, even though they haven't earned it. It's a sorry state of affairs.
One other warrior suggested just shrugging it off. That's true -- you have to unless it eats you alive.
But, I would go one step farther and say that we who are honest should always try to be above board in all our dealings. Set an example for our children and grandchildren and try to turn it around that way.
Thanks for the thread.
Beverly
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Jamaican2011

16 years ago

LOL

dishonest people are everywhere, coming in all forms and shapes and sizes . Try'na cheat to get to the TOP I guess

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Ehanson 16 years ago

Wait till they start putting your product up on a torrent site for everyone to download for free.

I set my WSO's up so I receive an automatic email confirmation that notifies me the buyer really did purchase the product. I double check the transaction ID in PayPal just to make sure.

Thankfully, we don't have people asking for "review copies" anymore.
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TZ

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Minto

Have any of you got some stories like this?

Par for the course - get used to it my friend.

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KenThompson

16 years ago

Perhaps someone has some actual numbers that could illustrate how
pervasive this "problem" is?

How many very savvy people are out there doing this?

So it's coming down to what is considered "publicly available"? It is
true that you don't have to be a member to see WSOs. Ok...

You want Allen to make the WSO section off limits, not publicly
accessible?

But then wouldn't that decrease sales of WSOs? I think it would. Yes/No?

Ken

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KenThompson

16 years ago

"A Warrior Special Offer Means The Price You Give Must Be Better Than The Price The Public At Large Can Get."

From the bathroom wall in the WSO section.

That's generally true except for the hordes of savvy marketers who
are not members and buy the WSO price.

I bet if a link was put on a sales page external to the WF... you would
be ok. I doubt Allen's gonna hunt you down.

I certainly won't say anything - I don't care. I just think this is all...
something.

Ken

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tpw 16 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

I certainly won't say anything - I don't care. I just think this is all...
something.

I will say it for you Ken... I am not concerned with offense...

I just think this is all _____________. {Fill in the Blank}

* horse manure
* crock of ****
* whining
* short-sightedness
* Kool-Aid drinkers
* the reason I divorced my ex-wife and her family...
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CDarklock 16 years ago

Originally Posted by KenThompson

"A Warrior Special Offer Means The Price You Give Must Be Better Than The Price The Public At Large Can Get."

From the bathroom wall in the WSO section.

Compare my proposal:

"A Warrior Special Offer Means The Price You Give Must Be The Best Price The Public At Large Can Get."

Problem?

Look, it's Allen's forum, and he can do as he likes. Similarly, I can dislike what he does, and I'm neither afraid nor ashamed to say so. But I dislike it for real, rational reasons - not because I don't understand what he's doing. I understand it just fine. I just don't agree.
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Social Experts

16 years ago

[DELETED]

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Cnotey 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Minto

Wow, looks like a brought up a lot of views It's good though! Healthy dicussions

Yup, it's great too. That is why I have switched from Black Hat World to here. On this forum I can have a discussion without people having opposing views resort to name calling and ethnic slurs.
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tpw

16 years ago

You know, I can buy a specific model of whatever at Wal-Mart with the expectation that I am getting the best price.

The truth may be that I can get that item at Target for less.

Of course, I can go back to Wal-Mart and prove to them that Target has it for less, and they will give me a refund on the difference... Pain in the Ass yes, but I can do it...

I can also go online and find it for much less at Amazon, but I will have to wait a few days to take delivery... Would it be worth the wait? Depends...

But can I show Wal-Mart that I can get the same item for less at Amazon and expect them to price match? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

OMG That is so funny... Yep, it would never happen...

Here is the reality... Products are always available in multiple places, often at a different price always...

I have different websites for some products...

I put the product on X.com for highest price.

I put the product on TPW at mid-price.

And I put the product on WF for the lowest price.

How often is it an issue? Once in five years.

OMG Caliban!!! Watch out!!!! Watch Out!!! Look up before it is too late!!!

The sky is falling!!!

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Michael Mayo

16 years ago

Bill,
Drinking alone often leads to excessive Self-loathing... LOL
It becomes a circle jerk!

...lol

Have a Great Day!
Michael

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scott33

16 years ago

wow I was thinking about posting a WSO but now im surely thinking against it because of this post.. all I can say if you start off being unethical in IM your headed down a tough road, because you never know who you are going to meet.

what if you meet this guy in the future, and your like hey your that jack ass that ripped me off..

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by scott33

wow I was thinking about posting a WSO but now im surely thinking against it because of this post.. all I can say if you start off being unethical in IM your headed down a tough road, because you never know who you are going to meet.

what if you meet this guy in the future, and your like hey your that jack ass that ripped me off..

Thank you for letting us keep those prospects for ourselves... Less competition for us always makes our job easier....

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scott33 16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Thank you for letting us keep those prospects for ourselves... Less competition for us always makes our job easier....

true i probably wouldn't be much competition anyway
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navyseal

16 years ago

I guess you should be careful.

Especially when you are dealing with money or business.

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16 years ago

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Kay King

16 years ago

To me, the biggest change is in running WSO's as a semi-permanent offer.

Sellers used to run a WSO for a week, 10 days, 3 days and sometimes for 24 hours. It was part of the testing of the sales process - and part of their launch. It helped get attention with mention on blogs and in other forums and helped get affiliates to sell the product after the WSO was over.

Some sellers do have their products on regular sales sites as well as running them in WSOs - but I've wondered if most of their sales come from WSOs rather than from their own sites. I never considered it being due to "ousiders" buying WSO's - thought it was due to the targeted traffic the WF gets.

Nothing to keep a seller from running a WSO to promote his new product - and having the WSO time limited.

kay

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I never considered it being due to "ousiders" buying WSO's

It's because under most conditions, the WSO converts better than an external page (largely because of a lower price). So the WSO vendor directs all his traffic to the WSO, where it will convert better. The only traffic he doesn't direct there is the traffic he can't direct there.

Meanwhile, think about it. If I put out a new product, and it will convert better as a WSO, why would I not release a WSO? Of course I'll release a WSO. And sure enough, it converts better, and all my traffic goes there.

The current use of the WSO forum is the inevitable result of a forum where offers convert better. There's no traffic source I can't capture in a WSO. I don't even really need the external page. So the external page gets no traffic, makes no sales, and is ultimately just a figurehead to prove the price is higher outside the WSO forum.

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

It's because under most conditions, the WSO converts better than an external page (largely because of a lower price).

Analysis Paralysis... OMG CD!!! Really?!?

Dude... WSO's don't convert better largely because of price...

I might just have to test that to prove you wrong... LOL

With Admin's permission of course...

There are several factors of why WSO's convert better, and price is just a small part of the overall picture...

* Loads of built-in traffic

* Better targeted audience

* Seller reputation (more obvious in a community environment)

* Shoppers pre-conditioned to buy (when they go to the WSO section, they are looking for something to buy)

Each of these factors might exist on the external page as well, but not at the same level for any of them...

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

Dude... WSO's don't convert better largely because of price...

Then why do we require them to have a lower price?

I mean, after all, at least one vendor doesn't like it. If it's not improving conversions, what's the point? If it's not important that a WSO is guaranteed to have a lower price, why do we do it?

And yes, ultimately the answer is "because Allen said so." And that's fine. This is not a democracy. I do not have a vote. But I believe the one person who does have a vote is a smart and thoughtful person who might think about it, if I just open my mouth and say something.

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Then why do we require them to have a lower price?

I mean, after all, at least one vendor doesn't like it. If it's not improving conversions, what's the point? If it's not important that a WSO is guaranteed to have a lower price, why do we do it?

Now you are asking the right questions...

What we had here was a lack of communication...

The lower price requirement I believe has little to do with sellers and more to do with attracting an audience of bargain shoppers...

So long as the audience believes that they are getting the best price at Warrior Special Offers / Wal-Mart, those companies who promise the lower price will see an influx of bargain shoppers...

Wal-Mart: Prices are falling everyday...

So long as Wal-Mart's customers continue to believe that, they will see no reason for ever shopping anywhere else...

Likewise, Warrior Forum: Our advertisers offer their very best prices here...

Consumers are being trained to come to the WF first to shop for information products... And so long as the customers continue to believe that they will get the lowest prices on an info product in the WSO section of the forum, there will never be any reason for them to shop anywhere else...

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

The lower price requirement I believe has little to do with sellers and more to do with attracting an audience of bargain shoppers...

...but this doesn't have a large effect on conversions?

The vendors go where the buyers are. The buyers are here, or at least appear to be. Why would a vendor go anywhere else?

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Jeremy Kelsall 16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

The vendors go where the buyers are. The buyers are here, or at least appear to be. Why would a vendor go anywhere else?

Because they don't need to be here?

Because they've built a list of people that have never heard of the WarriorForum?

Because they don't want the competition of hundreds of other vendors?
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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Originally Posted by tpw

The lower price requirement I believe has little to do with sellers and more to do with attracting an audience of bargain shoppers...

...but this doesn't have a large effect on conversions?

The vendors go where the buyers are. The buyers are here, or at least appear to be. Why would a vendor go anywhere else?

Perceived lower prices only affect where people shop for products.

The reality is that I can walk into any Wal-Mart and find a product that is priced higher than other competitors...

And I am certain that the same could possibly be said of the Warrior Forum... After all, not everyone is quite as honest as you are...

The perception of lower pricing only ensures that you will have a lot of people looking. The real price is actually not relevant to the conversion rate...

However, let me drop a bug in your ear... Admin can correct if this is wrong, but I do not anticipate correction...

Since you are focused heavily on the "letter of the law", let me show you that light that is trying to be seen from within the shadows...

The price you offer in the WSO must be lower than any other price you offer to the public. "Public" being the key word here.

If they are already your customers Caliban, give them a username/password to access your Private Members Area. Your Private Members area is not open to the public, because it is behind a password. So therefore, you can offer your customers a better price, so long as they are already in your sales funnel and private membership area.

Train your customers to come to your Private Members Area first, before they go to Warrior Forum...

And if you do, you will be able to have your cake and eat it too...

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CDarklock

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

If they are already your customers Caliban, give them a username/password to access your Private Members Area.

Except the help desk already told me I can't do this, months ago.

The letter of the law isn't as important as the spirit, on the WSO forum. That's why I'm pretty sure $10 here and $10.01 elsewhere isn't going to fly.

I just don't like the rule. I think it's a dumb rule. I think it made sense once, but it doesn't anymore, and there's no reasonable justification for it today.

I'm really pretty tired of the subject, because honestly, you're not changing my mind and I'm not changing yours. But if you think it's just that I don't get it, you're very - very - wrong.

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I'm really pretty tired of the subject, because honestly, you're not changing my mind and I'm not changing yours. But if you think it's just that I don't get it, you're very - very - wrong.

When we started this conversation, I honestly did not think that you were looking at the big picture.

You have since changed my mind. I know we are on the same page.

We just disagree in the level of importance we apply to this issue.

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GarrieWilson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Then why do we require them to have a lower price?

Really?

It's a lower price to make it a special deal for forum members.

Years ago there wasn't a WSO section. Allen added one, it was free IIRC to list, but everything had to be a special price. It was done to keep people from making special offers in the main forum. Allen then said we could tell our lists about it too.

Then they where special and only ran for a limited time. People promoted outside the WF, unlike many now.

Now, it's nothing special. Anyone can buy. People are running affiliate programs. Etc.

WSO now means Warriors SELLING Online. Not really but should.

-g

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thriftgirl62

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Matt Morgan

Thread title Change the title of this thread to:

WSO Warriors 'pretending' to be customers.

or

Fake WSO customers

Yours is WSO Lying customers, but if they havn't purchased (but pretending that they have) they are not customers are they?

Nobody noticed the Title was changed way back on POST #2 until #20 but only Warriors would notice it at all, let alone Dare to Speak Their Minds! You already know intelligence is not measured by academic achievement, now do you believe it?

Originally Posted by Ernie Lonardo

It's safe to say that these cheap *******s will never ever ever succeed online, I guess thats the only good to come out of this.

Originally Posted by Jamaican2011

LOL
dishonest people are everywhere, coming in all forms and shapes and sizes . Try'na cheat to get to the TOP I guess

People who lie, cheat and steal haven't been taught any different. They've been cheated, lied to and stolen from all their lives and when they come online, the guru mentality takes over so they figure they better get before they get got. Even games reinforce that thinking: http://wealthlpp.com/darker

Would you believe there are former gang leaders, pimps and street thugs that would not be CEO's today had it not been for Fillmore Slim and McDonalds in the late 50's and 60's

Originally Posted by paulie888

. Running a business is no walk in the park, and you need to have the right mindset and long-term outlook in order to succeed - having a "hit and run" type mentality can be very detrimental to success in IM and also elsewhere.

There are dozens of hit and run launches that make people think that's how to get ahead. What they don't see are all the people working and planning months and years in advance for the big "hit and run." Successful product launches begin with guys like Paul Galloway not with ebook formulas or videos in the WSO section.

Originally Posted by Michael Mayo

CD, I agree that the offers here in the WSO section are not limited to Warriors only and that also drives me crazy at times although, the exposure/traffic the WSO section receives more than makes up for it.

The fact that people arriving at my site get charged more for the same product allows me the opportunity to send them a rebate/cash back and inform them of the Warrior Forum. I then give them the option to become a Member of the WF to receive my Special Offers in the future even though they are now on my list.

Has it worked for me in the past? I've not tracked it. I may do so in the
future just to see and know the answer.

That's it! Lets cut out 98% of the possible
prospects. :rolleyes: Have a Great Day!
Michael

That's your biggest problem, right there. One owner with different prices for the same product will put themselves out of business unless they are selling in different markets or the lower price is unpublished for distributors required to meet minimum quantities.

The internet is the same market with the same audience - ONLINE. The WSO is supposed to be SPECIAL. What is your definition of special? Products that cannot be found anywhere else is exclusive. People expect to pay for exclusive but telling buyers your WSO is guaranteed to be the lowest price they will ever find that product offered anywhere on the internet is irresistible and that's why the WSO converts so well. The most targeted audience is not going to convert the same without the irresistible offer and the element of trust pushing them forward.

It is not exclusive when the same product can be found on your website regardless of the price. You need to brand the WSO with one label and brand the products on your website with your logo just like manufacturers do with the products they produce for retail stores. Make them different within the same niche and be done with it.

The permanent WSO is one of the biggest benefit of all. Newbies who have no website or online presence can get one for $40 and practice their marketing skills at the same time. Are you allowed to edit your WSO, add and remove dead links? If so, then use that to your advantage - like a landing page on the way to your website. Can you do that? Or are there rules I don't know about?

Originally Posted by Andrei Rotariu

I recently payed for something which i actually didnt want and only purchased cos i was drunk..

I was honest and open with the dude and he gave my money back. He probably thinks im a scumbag, but at the end of the day if your honest no one should have a problem dealing with you.

I HATE SCUMBAGS.

YOU, Andrei are the kind of "SCUMBAG" women fall in love with every day. Bad boys aren't afraid of the truth and that combination is irresistible to women of all ages and great for business. You're in the league that dictates keeping your money and your women away from your friends because they will go after what you have just to see if they can get any. Smiling in your face, the back stabbers...it's what they do.

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sal64

16 years ago

Why not make your wso unique instead of a mirror image of your main site? Much like an OTO.

Whilst I can see the issue, if a client seraches and buys a wso via google, then woo hoo. Another sale for me. No different to an affiliate selling my product as far as I am concerned.

Not sure what all the fuss is about.

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Syamsul Alam

16 years ago

If that the case then, stop using WSO to make your payday. Create low ticket WSO with general information, and offer your 'real' product - high ticket product with your secret sauce - at the end of your WSO.

You won't lost anything then...

In fact, you'll be one who thanks those liar. They'll submit your WSO to underground forum, make your WSO get downloaded, and get free promotion for your 'real' product.

Another 2 cent from me...

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Mike Baker

16 years ago

We could save this quite easily. Change it from WSO to WFSO. That way the Special Offer is only available to the Warrior Forum. That would be a true indication of what it is right now, whereas calling a WSO is not as anyone whether they are a Warrior or not can get the cheaper price.

Personally, I don't see what the problem is. It shouldn't matter whether you are selling your product on your own site or here, the main thing is to get sales. If you are worried about selling less at the higher price, then drive more traffic to the WSO and you will get more sales and hopefully equal out the equation.

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peetred

16 years ago

I"m sorry but I have to agree with CD. I have been on the forum since you had to be a member and logged in to get a Warrior SPECIAL Offer. If it's not special to Warriors only, then I don't think it deserves that name, and it's not very special. Like someone mentioned, I might as well throw up a sales page with a price and then direct ALL of my traffic from that sales page to WF, but I'm not even sure that would be allowed, and it would seem pretty cruddy to all of my customers if they saw a sales page with my price and then I said HEY, go over here and get this special price that everyone can get. It doesn't make ANYONE feel "special".

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HeySal

16 years ago

Caliban, I think your guilt about differentiating prices is misplaced. Even in the real world people understand that there are clubs in which you can get special club prices on products that require membership in the club to procure.

Look at grocery clubs. People KNOW when they go into a grocery store they are going to pay more for toilet paper than they will if they buy a membership to Cosco, (? something like that). Rock and gem clubs often have special prices on related items for members. You go into a rock shop and you KNOW that the price of what you are getting might be cheaper through a club.

WF is nothing but a hulking club. People will take advantage of prices and info by obtaining membership if they want to -- if they don't, they aren't being screwed, it's their CHOICE. If they miss the club discount if it is offered publically, it's no different than missing any other sale.

And to go retro on this thread --
I get a bit torked hearing the perception of thieves and con artists. Average people do not STEAL because they are frustrated. Thieves and con artists are a whole different breed of people from those who just can't make it online. Despite the perception of them, there are a lot of thieves and con artists who actually make a lot of money. If you doubt that, take a look at some of the multi-billion dollar scams that have been revealed lately.

Someone trying to steal the latest WSO is just a mentally warped and despicable excuse of a human being - but do know that you might sometime buy from that piece of garbage wrapped in skin. What you are buying will most likely not be a fresh and unique product. When someone asks for a refund or says they didn't receive the WSO they purchased, ask for their username, too - you might want to remember it and pass it along to your friends via the "under the table" grapevine to kill their sales here even though you can't expose the thief in the forums. Also - if someone POSTS that they paid and didn't receive it - is it really that "against the rules" to answer the post with, sorry, there is no record of your transaction or purchasing email on paypal? That line is not defamation of character. You didn't call them anything. You just stated the business fact that there is not a record of transaction. Let the reader read into it what they will.

Thanks

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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sal64

16 years ago

Awesome... another thread based on negativity as opposed to productivity has gone to 3 pages.

Price difference is tosh. So what happens if you offer a sale of 50% to your list? Or do you not do this in the fear that you'll annoy customers who have already paid??

Sales are sales are sales to be honest. Be happy if you're getting them from whatever source.

Fairdinkum!

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Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.

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tpw

16 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

Awesome... another thread based on negativity as opposed to productivity has gone to 3 pages.

It has been proven time and again that news must focus on the negative to keep an audience.

People love looking at train wrecks, and could care less to see the feel-good stories.

Complaining about it won't change the reality of human nature.

When you figure out to how use it to your benefit, I doubt that you would complain as much.

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Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)

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sal64

16 years ago

Originally Posted by tpw

It has been proven time and again that news must focus on the negative to keep an audience.

People love looking at train wrecks, and could care less to see the feel-good stories.

Complaining about it won't change the reality of human nature.

When you figure out to how use it to your benefit, I doubt that you would complain as much.

Oh, I have.. don't you worry about that.

Thanks
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Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.

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tpw 16 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

Oh, I have.. don't you worry about that.

What, me worry?
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Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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- sal64 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by tpw
  
  What, me worry?
  
  Worry is the interest you pay on problems which have not yet eventuated.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Internet Marketing: 20% Internet - 80% Marketing!
  You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
  
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John Durham

16 years ago

Expectations management. There is a certain amount of that to be expected.

Thanks

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