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Yeah, this is a rant...a major one...but I'm keeping it very short.

I'm done coaching. People just aren't serious, suck up your time, and then
want their money back when they figure out that IM isn't for them.

Screw that.

My time is too valuable for me to waste it on people who have no work
ethic and don't want to make the sacrifices required to run a successful
business.

Now I'm going back to work on things that matter and that I'm in control
over.

At least now my signature will be one link shorter.

End of rant.

Flame away.
  • Profile picture of the author Brendon Zahrndt
    I'm going to be extremely selfish and literally get down on my hands and knees and beg you not to give up coaching.

    I've read many a thread recently regarding the quality of the people and the information you can find here relative to the 'good ole days' and it's obvious decline. It's a free forum and this was bound to happen.

    Naturally, there are many more individuals these days who have decided that being a sandwich artist wasn't the life they were supposed to live and working in their underwear in front of a computer was; passion, intelligence, intestinal fortitude aside.

    I don't have a suggestion. All I'm trying to say is that if you give up coaching we lose a 'tell it like it is authority figure' who brings a wealth of knowledge in successful internet business ventures and we add to the crap that sits at the bottom of the bowl, un-flushed.
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  • Profile picture of the author aaron_nimocks
    I would quit too if I were you.

    Never really been big on coaching because most people never take action and I feel like I was wasting my time. Only did it for a few months a few years ago.
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  • Profile picture of the author alcymart
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Yeah, this is a rant...a major one...but I'm keeping it very short.

    I'm done coaching. People just aren't serious, suck up your time, and then
    want their money back when they figure out that IM isn't for them.

    Screw that.

    My time is too valuable for me to waste it on people who have no work
    ethic and don't want to make the sacrifices required to run a successful
    business.

    Now I'm going back to work on things that matter and that I'm in control
    over.

    At least now my signature will be one link shorter.

    End of rant.

    Flame away.
    First, nice to meet you Steven! I know exactly the feeling, but I been hanging onto coaching for about 7 years full time and been in the Marketing field for just about 28 years now.

    Quit coaching! How dare you!... How dare you quit? Too many folks need our help Steven. We can't let them down even if only a very select few will ever succeed in something. Even if I don't know you, I am shocked by your decision!

    What's the matter, taking things personal from someone?

    I'm out of this thread, it's just too painful to continue writing and reading such nonsense!

    Take care,

    Bernard St-Pierre
    Marketing Consultant
    Copywriter/Teacher
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by alcymart View Post

      First, nice to meet you Steven! I know exactly the feeling, but I been hanging onto coaching for about 7 years full time and been in the Marketing field for just about 28 years now.

      Quit coaching! How dare you!... How dare you quit? Too many folks need our help Steven. We can't let them down even if only a very select few will ever succeed in something. Even if I don't know you, I am shocked by your decision!

      What's the matter, taking things personal from someone?

      I'm out of this thread, it's just too painful to continue writing and reading such nonsense!

      Take care,

      Bernard St-Pierre
      Marketing Consultant
      Copywriter/Teacher

      Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you.

      My time...my decision.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
        Steven,

        I completely understand and respect your decision. However, I have a suggestion for you. You may have already tried this - I don't know - but I wonder if your coaching client quality would be any different if you raised your rates?

        Coaching used to be much more rare than it is today. Real coaches cost real money and attracted the more serious people. Now, coaching seems more of a commodity and the rates have gone down - and every Tom, Dick and Harry gets themselves a coach.

        I could be way off-base but it's something to consider.

        Tina
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        • Profile picture of the author Will P
          Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

          Steven,

          I completely understand and respect your decision. However, I have a suggestion for you. You may have already tried this - I don't know - but I wonder if your coaching client quality would be any different if you raised your rates?

          Coaching used to be much more rare than it is today. Real coaches cost real money and attracted the more serious people. Now, coaching seems more of a commodity and the rates have gone down - and every Tom, Dick and Harry gets themselves a coach.

          I could be way off-base but it's something to consider.

          Tina
          Very good suggestion, I did this on my SEO coaching and it worked out good for me.
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  • Profile picture of the author 82ana
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Yeah, this is a rant...a major one...but I'm keeping it very short.

    I'm done coaching. People just aren't serious, suck up your time, and then
    want their money back when they figure out that IM isn't for them.

    Screw that.

    My time is too valuable for me to waste it on people who have no work
    ethic and don't want to make the sacrifices required to run a successful
    business.

    Now I'm going back to work on things that matter and that I'm in control
    over.

    At least now my signature will be one link shorter.

    End of rant.

    Flame away.
    I can only imagine how hard it must be to find a student online who just doesn't want a quick fix. That seems to be the trend these days. If you love teaching (coaching) Steve, you shouldn't give up just be more selective.

    If you do decide to stop coaching it will be our loss. You are the most eloquent and apart from a select couple the most helpful IMers on this forum. Don't let a few idiotic punks ruin it for you and us. )

    Cheers,
    Sana
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  • Profile picture of the author Lazy
    I've only coached a few people at this point, and I can say with confidence that the number won't be increasing anytime soon.

    I have a couple people that are great, and it's totally worth my time to help out, but then there are the people that expect $10,000 overnight, and they expect you to do all the work for them. They make me so mad!
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Norton
    Steven maybe you should just look at re-structing your coaching! Maybe even re-pricing it at a higher rate and only accept a direct credit card payment rather than a paypal payment to reduce that want for a refund. Add in a questionaire before (sp) or even an ebook on who shouldn't take on my coaching before they come to you. You know weed out the time wasters as much as possible before they even have a chance to waste your time. Tim
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Steven -

      Ok. I think you should quit coaching!

      Coaching can be a way station in IM but I don't see how anyone can do it for long. It'll suck you dry.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author TelexTape
    Well, then quit. I wouldn't want a coach with such a bad attitude anyhow!
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    • Profile picture of the author Lazy
      Originally Posted by TelexTape View Post

      Well, then quit. I wouldn't want a coach with such a bad attitude anyhow!
      How about you go coach a bunch of noobies with no work ethic and see how good your attitude is!
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      • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
        Originally Posted by Lazy View Post

        How about you go coach a bunch of noobies with no work ethic and see how good your attitude is!
        BOOM.

        I hate it when people come in and call out warriors like Wagenheim... He's been working longer then I've been alive, and if I could EVER get coaching from him, I would take it.

        He is not a lazy guy, he works his butt off, and would expect his students to do so as well, if they aren't you can understand his frustration!!

        Caleb
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        Caleb Spilchen

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        • Profile picture of the author clint48
          Originally Posted by Caleb Spilchen View Post

          BOOM.

          I hate it when people come in and call out warriors like Wagenheim... He's been working longer then I've been alive, and if I could EVER get coaching from him, I would take it.

          He is not a lazy guy, he works his butt off, and would expect his students to do so as well, if they aren't you can understand his frustration!!

          Caleb
          I think you are right Caleb, he probably does expect his students to do what he does. I enjoy reading all of Steven's post, but I couldn't do what Steven does. He can write 10 or more articles a day. I would have a hard time doing that, but I would follow his advice, and do what I could do, because he is a honest guy and a straight shooter.

          I wouldn't call him lazy either, I would call him a machine.

          Clint
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          • Steve- I've purchased your products and they are great. I'm not sure why your students wouldn't get on board with the program. Human nature. Keep up the posting though--I'm learn a lot from your posts!
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Hey Caleb,

    Nice to meet you. Been learning a lot from you lately.

    I think Lazy was talking to TelexTape, not steve. And TelexTape was joking around in his post, trying to make steve's day a little better.

    It's just a misunderstanding, I'm sure
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    I

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    • Profile picture of the author Lazy
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      Hey Caleb,

      Nice to meet you. Been learning a lot from you lately.

      I think Lazy was talking to TelexTape, not steve. And TelexTape was joking around in his post, trying to make steve's day a little better.

      It's just a misunderstanding, I'm sure
      haha, no he was agreeing with me.
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  • Profile picture of the author TelexTape
    Hey Caleb,

    Nice to meet you. Been learning a lot from you lately.

    I think Lazy was talking to TelexTape, not steve. And TelexTape was joking around in his post, trying to make steve's day a little better.

    It's just a misunderstanding, I'm sure
    You are correct David. Thus the smiley face......
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    @David,

    I was agreeing with Lazy, about Wags not being Lazy lol

    Caleb
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    Caleb Spilchen

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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Parkin
    You're a straight shooter Steven and one of the good guys - do what makes you happy
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    Rockin' in the free world
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Stephen - I hear you. 'to thine ownself be true'.

    I can't tell you the countless hours I have spent in web conference, Skype, telephone and helpdesk coaching and training the past 4 years.

    A few people are appreciative and USE THE INFORMATION.

    The rest are just a complete waste of time because "they realize IM is not for them" - yeh at the faintest scent of w-o-r-k, they will disappear.

    It just happened to me with an old friend/former co-worker who wasted hours and hours of my time. I mean weekly 2-4 hours on skype for months - FREE. Oh I need this - I am going to do this - you are my savior helping me out at a time like this - I can do this. oh wow.

    only to cave and not do a damn thing with the information.

    Let them eat CAKE!
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Steven, I think you're a genius. You must recognize that on some level. Getting impatient with people who won't function at your level would be like Usain Bolt getting frustrated at runners who can't keep up with him on the track.

    "How easy was that?"
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    Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    LOL, you finally realised that? crikey...

    you know, put your price up, $10k+ p/m or something, then you'll get the serious ppl in.

    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Yeah, this is a rant...a major one...but I'm keeping it very short.

    I'm done coaching. People just aren't serious, suck up your time, and then
    want their money back when they figure out that IM isn't for them.

    Screw that.

    My time is too valuable for me to waste it on people who have no work
    ethic and don't want to make the sacrifices required to run a successful
    business.

    Now I'm going back to work on things that matter and that I'm in control
    over.

    At least now my signature will be one link shorter.

    End of rant.

    Flame away.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Imagine being a school teacher somewhere in Compton with kids running around with flick knives, knuckle-dusters and house arrest tags around their ankles that couldn't give a rats arse about what you have to teach them. Teach them lot for a week or two and you will be begging for your old IM coaching position. At least then, you don't run the risk of getting into a 187.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It's not just IM, Steve - it's in every field. I used to "coach" a few things myself and even taught for awhile. It made me postal.

    I don't care what the "management" says....some people just can NOT dance.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      <snip>It made me postal.

      I don't care what the "management" says....some people just can NOT dance.
      I could have told you that and spared you a lot of grief (stumble, trip).
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      Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Yeah, this is a rant...a major one...
    You call that a major rant? Man, you're getting soft in your old age.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      You call that a major rant? Man, you're getting soft in your old age.
      Have you seen Wag's studio lately? He's done.
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    • Profile picture of the author GoldenEye
      Hey there where from in Wisconsin, I am in Kenosha and was wanting to know if there was a group that gets together
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  • Profile picture of the author Daryl Lim
    please coach me
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Yeah, this is a rant...a major one...but I'm keeping it very short.

    I'm done coaching. People just aren't serious, suck up your time, and then
    want their money back when they figure out that IM isn't for them.

    Screw that.

    My time is too valuable for me to waste it on people who have no work
    ethic and don't want to make the sacrifices required to run a successful
    business.

    Now I'm going back to work on things that matter and that I'm in control
    over.

    At least now my signature will be one link shorter.

    End of rant.

    Flame away.
    I have learned to coach the masses instead of one on one in the form of a forum.

    The reason I think this is significant and relevant to what you are posting is this:

    When you coach masses instead of one on one, it doesnt hurt so bad when people dont follow through. Due to the numbers, each day "someone" also succeeds. So I find myself more focused on the success stories than the failure statistics.
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  • Profile picture of the author jesus3
    man that sucks. its crazy cuz i would love to have someone to bounce ideas off of but dont really talk to no one. and i do all my work but when people get offered to be taught the methods they slip and let a opportunity go. they want you to build their empire. stupid. if you ever wanna teach again let me know man im down.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    Steven,

    With the amount of content you have you should do what Jimmy Brown does...

    He sets up semi-automated e-coaching via email. He chooses one laser-focused topic and creates 4 to 8 quality lessons (typically an audio or video with a PDF). Then he requires you to complete a quiz or task and email it to him before you get the next lesson. He does not do one-on-one phone stuff and usually will offer a couple of personal email exchanges with students who finish his e-course. He typically charges $497 and it's pretty much hands-off.

    Just a thought.

    Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author alfrescoid
      Hi Steven,

      Does your decision affect in any way your excellent Ultimate Income Generation home study course?

      I'm sure you mean you are done with personal one-on-one coaching, but just seeking clarification.

      I do rather hope you'll continue to release excellent educational material and marketing packs...I've learned a lot from you!

      All the best,
      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Landon Walsh
    I disagree with this totally...

    Even though I have yet to have a class I have thought about it and did set a few ground rules to fight this:

    Rule number 1: Disclaimer:


    Most people in IM are not making money.
    Half of those who are selling product end up losing more than they make, or break even.
    Probably 60% of those who are making profit are only supplementing their income, 30% can replace their jobs, and that last 10% make large incomes.

    Getting into marketing like most things takes a lot of hard work.
    Furthermore it takes lots of time. The skills required to achieve internet marketing success are as involved as any college degree. The discipline required to be successful in marketing is the same for the success of any CEO.

    If you are looking to get into online marketing and don't already have a job and superior work ethic… DON’T GET INTO INTERNET MARKETING!

    My first free lesson to you when looking at this as a future career path is "don't get sold". There are thousands of products out there with people trying to get you to buy "their secret to millions". If you are the type to buy into that nonsense then I know for a fact that Marketing is NOT for you.

    I personally know people who've made millions in marketing. However it is not because they bought into some system someone was selling, or took shortcuts, but because they themselves had what it took to be CEO or CMO for any other company.

    That’s because the Main factor for success in this business and any other business is HOW HARD YOU WORK and HOW MUCH YOU KNOW. Internet marketing is my no means "fly by night"
    Rule 2. Only in person classes.

    Rule 3. Charge alot to keep narrow to those that are more serious.

    Rule 4. Gameplan and coursework studying while working on skills to launch some easy offline marketing.

    Rule 5. I have the option to refuse service to anyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    Why do people coach instead of actually doing it? Baffles me......surely more money better to actually do it then try and teach it...unless......... :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Landon Walsh
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      Why do people coach instead of actually doing it? Baffles me......surely more money better to actually do it then try and teach it...unless......... :-)
      If you are a good teacher...

      2 hours a class, two classes a week, $200 per student, with 20 students...

      Thats a $4,000 a month for a 4 hour work week talking about what you love and hopefully know a lot about...

      If you doubled that ratio it would be nearly a 100k year job for 8 hours of work a week. Not to mention the free time to work on Marketing for yourself.

      Seriously though. Teaching isn't for everyone. I love it and have done it in the past. If I can teach highschool students monetary policy and economics I can teach a monkey IM.


      I believe the OP knows his stuff... I think he probably goes about this "coaching" thing wrong though.


      I could teach you all how to become great teachers in Marketing... But then I wouldn't have the fun of building a WSO for it. =P
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  • Profile picture of the author Enygma44
    Just actually posted on thread on this...have $10K, am dead serious about making a full-time living online, and NEED A COACH (personal learning style). Could anybody on this thread help me out :-)

    - Aaron
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  • Profile picture of the author Affiguy
    I agree, to get more committed students, it makes sense to raise the prices. Their readiness to pay will show their future intention to do something with their knowledge. People appreciate things only if it has cost them an arm and a leg.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
    Steven I can't blame you one little bit. To see people wasting your valuable time, their time and not take advantage of your smarts is down right stupidity...but it's not surprising.

    Although it seems you love helping others, so maybe you could try and raise your rates and see how that goes, before you quit coaching.

    Anyway you can rant all day and night mate (great free entertainment!), you won't hear anything from me...do what you want and what will make your happy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hammad
    i think you should amend your policy of money back guarantee
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