by HeySal
51 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
People are so used to the idea our intellects are so much more advanced than animals.......

Then came language acquisition experiments with gorillas and chimps (remember CoCo?)

Now it comes to light we aren't even unique in symbolic realization of any kind...........artist expression is alive and doing well in the elephant community:

  • Profile picture of the author Tashi Mortier
    This just shows me again in what a wonderful world we live in!

    I love this planet and I love the life I have! I'm grateful every day that I have the chance to take a part in this wonderful universe and leave some traces that hopefully will be good for everyone!

    That's also why I try to be very selective on the different kinds of meat that I eat. I'm working hard so that I can afford to eat only organic meat, but it's not easy, I can tell you!
    Signature

    Want to read my personal blog? Tashi Mortier

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3493774].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Actually, I'm not THAT surprised. As for it being faked, I assume the elephant did it. If the elephant merely did it by HABIT, it is VERY complex! Imagine trying to get a poor artist human to do that! 8-)

    Heck, there are a LOT of FAMOUS painters that couldn't hold a candle to it. Look at pablo picasso!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3494718].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post


      Heck, there are a LOT of FAMOUS painters that couldn't hold a candle to it. Look at pablo picasso!

      Steve
      You can't be serious. Picasso is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, artists ever. Geesh.

      This elephant was taught how to paint this. I think it's remarkable that they even can be taught how to paint but it's not something they learned on their own. It's actually part of a conservation effort to help save the elephants. They sell the paintings to raise money for the project:

      Asian Elephant Art & Conservation Project
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3497842].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        You can't be serious. Picasso is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, artists ever. Geesh. <snip>
        Asian Elephant Art & Conservation Project
        Picasso was certainly great. Definitely had an impact on my life, weird as that may sound. That said, I don't believe in "greatest" when it comes to art. It is not something that can be measured like the 100 yard dash.
        Signature

        Project HERE.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3497863].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          Picasso was certainly great. Definitely had an impact on my life, weird as that may sound. That said, I don't believe in "greatest" when it comes to art. It is not something that can be measured like the 100 yard dash.
          Ahh, but can you say a 100 yard sprinter is the greatest? That's also subjective. One sprinter may have the fastest time but that doesn't mean they are "the greatest". I know what you mean though. One way that you can measure art is by what people are willing to pay for it. Picasso paintings hold many world records including one painting from last year which sold for $106,482,500, which is the record for an art auction sale.

          He is also one of the most influential, if not the most influential, artists ever.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3500143].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joshua Rigley
    Banned
    Leonardo Da Vinci had it right; the best source of inspiration is nature. Just model whatever you're doing after nature, study nature, and you'll have enough ideas to last you for several lifetimes.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3494739].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    Fascinating! Yes, of course animals can do more than we would ever suspect, and I believe they have more knowledge than most people realize.

    However, as I watch the elephant draw/paint I find myself wondering whether the elephant is drawing what it sees, or drawing what it has been trained to draw.

    At exactly 7:23 in the video there is a fellow starting to carry away an easel with multiple drawings of the same flower the elephant drew.

    So, perhaps a trainer taught the elephant to draw two items, the flower, and the elephant. Then the trainer gives the elephant a command to draw either or both.

    Does my Great Pynenees really understan the word "sit" in the same way humans do? Does she really understand the concept of automobile when she hears the command, "car" when we are going to drive somewhere?

    "Outside" means out the front door. "Porch" means the deck on the back of the house eventhough it is outside.

    When I drive to my office, and let her out the side door of the car and say, "outside," she goes over to an area where I can tie her with a 20ft dog tie. If, when letting her out of the car I say, "studio," she goes to the back door of the office. I call it studio because it used to be a photography studio. In each case it is a command that tells her to "go" to a certain place.

    I suspect the elephant draws a flower when given the comman that represents flower to the elephant.

    The question is whether or not the elephant knows it is a representation of the flower instead of being a particular action to take upon hearing whatever is the command to draw a flower.

    :-Don
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3494846].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, I saw the multiple drawings of the flower. But the elephant PICKED ONE and drew IT! Even if they were ALL the same, that shows intelligence. MAYBE the elephant was copied from another picture. HECK, maybe it was paiting a TRACING! That STILL shows ability. HECK, I still remember this cartoon show hosted by tom hatten(?) He was merely finishing SKETCHES, and HE was HUMAN!

    The fact is that the elephant has no reason to draw unless given some sort of great treat or it likes it. Still, if given a treat, WOW. The more involved the task, the more the elephant may expect.

    Somehow, even if it were a trick, I think it is cute. an elephant painting a kind of self portrait.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3496686].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      People think because they can teach human language to animals as a form of command or training, that makes them superior in intellect.

      I've always wondered about that. They can learn much of our language - but few of us can learn theirs.
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      2024 Patriot's Award for Service to Veterans
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3496763].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        People think because they can teach human language to animals as a form of command or training, that makes them superior in intellect.

        I've always wondered about that. They can learn much of our language - but few of us can learn theirs.
        Well, chimps have been caught teaching other chimps, and didn't COCO teach others? But the first computer I thought about buying couldn't do a lot of things that today's computers could. NOT because of the computer itself, but because the I/O is different. We can't perceive many sounds that dolphins and elephants put out apparently. And many animals can't create the sounds we can. So the basis of language among such species isn't a fair comparison.

        And, even if that elephant did that 100% by itself, and could do much better, that doesn't mean it could even understand how a car works.

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3498696].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        People think because they can teach human language to animals as a form of command or training, that makes them superior in intellect.

        I've always wondered about that. They can learn much of our language - but few of us can learn theirs.
        You are on target there, Kay.

        Language is an instinct in ALL species. Dogs learn human language other than things like pronouns which shift in meaning from usage to usage. I've personally been able to teach my dogs things that show they understand fully not only what the words are but they've been able to use the concepts on their own.

        Example - when out with Munchie when we had to turn back to get to the car before dark, I'd tell him we were "losing daylight". It took awhile but finally he'd look up on his own and give me me a quick growl, lift his head and look at the sky and sniff, then he'd turn around and start walking back toward the car. I'd be very uncomfortable out in mountains with a dog if I couldn't understand what he tries to tell me. Understanding your animal pal's own language at times can save your life - - and a dog WILL try to tell you what's up. It's up to the "superior intellect" to have the sharps to know what it's trying to tell you.

        It doesn't do much good to train a dog to potty outside if you can't tell when he's telling you he has to go, either. Communication is two way. If you listen to a person just starting to learn a new language every point about "mimicking rather than understanding" that is used to describe animal thought can be seen in the human 2nd language learner as well. I've met a lot of people who think the dog isn't housebroken when it is. The human is just too stupid to know when the dog is talking about going outside.

        If you can't see a dog's recognition of your language, you haven't taught him concepts that he can put to use that demonstrate his ability to use concepts. Not hard to figure that one out -- or maybe it takes an animal to figure that one out. There's still a lot of people don't seem to be able to "get it". The only reason I can see for this kind of mental blockage is that if we finally admit an animal's true ability we will have to start treating them better. Not a problem at my house. I am not the dog whisperer people think I am when they meet me and my dogs -- I just know how to listen to what is said to me.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3500253].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I've often been amazed at things my dogs learned though I wasn't trying to teach them. I think you have to love animals and also live closely with your pets so reach that level of understanding and responsiveness. Just like people, some animals are smarter and more intuitive than others, too.

          kay
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          2024 Patriot's Award for Service to Veterans
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3500289].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          You are on target there, Kay.

          Language is an instinct in ALL species. Dogs learn human language other than things like pronouns which shift in meaning from usage to usage. I've personally been able to teach my dogs things that show they understand fully not only what the words are but they've been able to use the concepts on their own.

          Example - when out with Munchie when we had to turn back to get to the car before dark, I'd tell him we were "losing daylight". It took awhile but finally he'd look up on his own and give me me a quick growl, lift his head and look at the sky and sniff, then he'd turn around and start walking back toward the car. I'd be very uncomfortable out in mountains with a dog if I couldn't understand what he tries to tell me. Understanding your animal pal's own language at times can save your life - - and a dog WILL try to tell you what's up. It's up to the "superior intellect" to have the sharps to know what it's trying to tell you.

          It doesn't do much good to train a dog to potty outside if you can't tell when he's telling you he has to go, either. Communication is two way. If you listen to a person just starting to learn a new language every point about "mimicking rather than understanding" that is used to describe animal thought can be seen in the human 2nd language learner as well. I've met a lot of people who think the dog isn't housebroken when it is. The human is just too stupid to know when the dog is talking about going outside.

          If you can't see a dog's recognition of your language, you haven't taught him concepts that he can put to use that demonstrate his ability to use concepts. Not hard to figure that one out -- or maybe it takes an animal to figure that one out. There's still a lot of people don't seem to be able to "get it". The only reason I can see for this kind of mental blockage is that if we finally admit an animal's true ability we will have to start treating them better. Not a problem at my house. I am not the dog whisperer people think I am when they meet me and my dogs -- I just know how to listen to what is said to me.
          My danish aunt, Birthe (pronounced beer-tah) had a dog she loved, and had for quite a while. For some reason, she didn't think the dog could think. She thought everything was driven by instinct. I threw the ball, and the dog seemed happy. I acted like I threw it, the dog went towards where it would have landed, decided it was a trick, and looked at me, and she seemed upset. She then WAITED until she could verify I threw the ball, and went. No much, but it SHOULD prove they have the ability to be happy, annoyed, anticipate, and determine deception. It didn't prove anything to my aunt. 8-( Try programming that stuff into a robot though.

          Steve
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3500553].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        People think because they can teach human language to animals as a form of command or training, that makes them superior in intellect.

        I've always wondered about that. They can learn much of our language - but few of us can learn theirs.
        Humans are superior in intellect.

        I've never understood why people need to put human accomplishments down to boost the importance of other animals, or why dogs have to be smarter than people to be "better" than they already are. I've never felt a need to pretend my dogs were smarter than me in order for me to care more about them, as I've never believed IQ = Soul. And it's the soul of dogs and other animals that is the essence of my affection for them, not that they are furry Einsteins.

        Dogs and other animals do have some special talents that humans don't have, but we have many they don't have either. And while many people do underestimate the intelligence and emotions of other animals, that doesn't make the other animals smarter than us.

        Plus, you can only fake me out one time pretending to throw a tennis ball, then I catch on.
        Signature
        Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
        Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3501145].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          <snip?>I've never believed IQ = Soul. <snip>
          What planet are you from? The IQ test was originally devised as a measure of a person's soul.
          Signature

          Project HERE.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3501300].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

            The IQ test was originally devised to keep immigrants from getting jobs.
            They do seem to primarily appeal to eugenicists (eg MENSA founder Sir Cyril Burt) and others with extremist agendas of one kind or another.
            Signature

            Project HERE.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3503439].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      <snip>

      The fact is that the elephant has no reason to draw unless given some sort of great treat or it likes it. Still, if given a treat, WOW. The more involved the task, the more the elephant may expect.<snip>
      I used to live in the woods living on wild edibles (I was going through a phase, what can I say), and observed wild animals. It often looked to me like there was more to their existence than surviving -- sometimes, what they did seemed to have no other purpose than playing and having fun. For this reason, I don't find it unnatural for the elephant to be drawing. Its survival is taken care of with humans feeding it. Essentially living under a form of house arrest, imposed by circumstance (not blaming its caretakers), it makes sense that an elephant might find ways to entertain itself, much as humans in prison are sometimes known to do.
      Signature

      Project HERE.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3496829].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Amanda Hugenkiss
    lol i agree with this
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3496861].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
    Wow! Thank you for sharing this!
    Signature

    Call Center Fuel - High Volume Data
    Delivering the highest quality leads in virtually all consumer verticals.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3497458].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author adeleadams
    Wow that is simply rocking. Keep on posting stuff like that. That is amazing Thanks a lot Sal.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3497529].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    At about 7:20 in the camera zooms out and you can see another easel set up down the street with another elephant presumably painting.

    A bohemian elephant colony. Who knew?


    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    People think because they can teach human language to animals as a form of command or training, that makes them superior in intellect.

    I've always wondered about that. They can learn much of our language - but few of us can learn theirs.
    I don't know, Kay ... I know what a lot of my dog's noises and mannerisms mean, and I'm sure many pet owners could identify some of their own pet's "language" without trying too hard.
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3497785].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      At about 7:20 in the camera zooms out and you can see another easel set up down the street with another elephant presumably painting.

      A bohemian elephant colony. Who knew?
      Et tu, Dennis? Another screenwriter? Please, no.
      Signature

      Project HERE.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3497797].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        Et tu, Dennis? Another screenwriter? Please, no.
        I wudda et tu, but one filled me up.
        Signature

        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3497802].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Bloody arty farty types.

    Why don't they get real jobs?
    Signature
    Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
    So that blind people can hate them as well.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3497850].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JustinNoel
    Wow! That animal drew better than I would! Great video.

    Do you think Elephants can write articles for us in the future also? lol
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3498070].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by JustinNoel View Post

      Wow! That animal drew better than I would! Great video.

      Do you think Elephants can write articles for us in the future also? lol
      Probably as good as some of the spinners out there.
      Signature

      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3498117].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tobbyhot
    I don't get remember where I seen this before but all I want to say this is wonderful. I like it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3498119].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rohnsmith
    This is awesome. It is speechless. Thanks for sharing the video.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3498463].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author leighelkins
    Good job I was sat down when I saw this or that elephant painting would have knocked me for 6. haha
    Still, the elephant was trained so not as impressive as it could be, but then what do we expect. Maybe in years to come we will have natural born painters in the elephant kingdom that descended from this 1 elephant....maybe...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3498492].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Hey tim, yeah I didn't give any thought to people that considered such paintings, as pablo picassos, to be better than say anything leonardo da vinci could ever do. Frankly, I never thought much about picasso. The best I saw from him I didn't care for and the worst was amazing in that it actually sold.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3498668].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Steve, Picasso had many styles and I think you would like one of those styles if you like art at all. Most people only think of his cubist works or abstract portraits, but he was a master at classicism also. Check out his blue and rose period works and his Titian inspired paintings form the 20s. Pure genius.

      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Hey tim, yeah I didn't give any thought to people that considered such paintings, as pablo picassos, to be better than say anything leonardo da vinci could ever do. Frankly, I never thought much about picasso. The best I saw from him I didn't care for and the worst was amazing in that it actually sold.

      Steve
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3500226].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Steve, Picasso had many styles and I think you would like one of those styles if you like art at all. Most people only think of his cubist works or abstract portraits, but he was a master at classicism also. Check out his blue and rose period works and his Titian inspired paintings form the 20s. Pure genius.
        OK, I looked at some rose period, and titian ones. They ARE better, but still... GENIUS!?!?!? Not as far as I am concerned. I think leonardo, or even van gogh, is better.

        AND, though I DID look at other work before making the comment, and knew of it earlier, one drawing he will NEVER live down for me is:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote_(Picasso)

        And YEAH, before anyone remarks about "live down", I know he's dead. Still, to each his or her own.

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3501370].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    This is so amazing. My son flipped out (animal lover like me) and says all his FaceBook people love it.

    Wouldn't you know a fricking Simp commented at YouTube 'but did the elephant know what he was drawing' - as if that makes it any less amazing if he didn't.

    Some people just love their ugly negativity and I love to hate them.

    The fact that it is not abstract like most animal drawings, but very exact is what blows my mind. (and yes he draws better than I can)...
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3501520].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      ... (and yes he draws better than I can)...
      Maybe, but ... have you tried drawing with your nose? You might be better at it than you think.
      Signature

      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3503546].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ozwald01
    Hey, thanks for sharing the vid.
    We recently visited a zoo in Thailand where there were elephants painting similar to this.
    They really seemed to know what they were doing.
    The paintings were simple but truly amazing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3502088].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ejb2059
    I've seen this before and it's amazing

    It's so heartbreaking to know how we humans abuse / mistreat these marvelous beasts

    Rev
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3502112].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
    I'm not impressed. If I had all those evolutionary advantages like a 35 pound brain and an opposable nose I might be able to draw that well too

    That is an actual artist with observation skills and talent. It's always nice to see something like that.
    Signature

    Do something spectacular; be fulfilled. Then you can be your own hero. Prem Rawat

    The KimW WSO

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3503154].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ConsumerBoard
    Does the Human teach them or is the elephant talented by nature?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3504456].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mjarel
      Originally Posted by ConsumerBoard View Post

      Does the Human teach them or is the elephant talented by nature?
      Elephants are quick learner & they are intelligent by nature.
      for example; you may noticed this, If he cannot reach some part of his body that itches with his trunk, he doesn't always rub it against a tree: he may pick up a long stick and give himself a good scratch with that instead. If one stick isn't long enough he will look for another long piece. I watched many discovery reports on elephants.
      Signature
      Maria Jarel
      Brand Partnership Manager| Logoinn.com | The Art for Business
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3504903].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by mjarel View Post

        Elephants are quick learner & they are intelligent by nature.
        for example; you may noticed this, If he cannot reach some part of his body that itches with his trunk, he doesn't always rub it against a tree: he may pick up a long stick and give himself a good scratch with that instead. If one stick isn't long enough he will look for another long piece. I watched many discovery reports on elephants.
        Some birds will take creatures like clams, take them high up in the air, drop them, and fly down to eat the contents. Otters do the same by using a stone to crush it. non human primates have been caught teaching others to do things, EVEN IN THE WILD!

        So YEP, animals are FAR more intelligent than many give them credit for, EVEN birds! But, if scientists and others were so smart, they would have to realize that the average animal would HAVE to be, merely to survive. But they are just happy to say animals don't learn, etc... They merely were BORN with basic knowledge they call instinct.

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3505359].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author billy84
    OMG the elephant is much better than me by far at drawing AWESOME !!!!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3505784].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    If one stick isn't long enough he will look for another long piece.
    Yes, unlike we used to be taught - many animals use tools.

    I've never understood why people need to put human accomplishments down to boost the importance of other animals, or why dogs have to be smarter than people to be "better" than they already are.
    Did you hear someone here say that they were smarter than humans?
    The point is that they have conceptual abilities and if treated like beings with conceptual abilities they can do things that people just don't give them credit for being able to do or even think about. That's science. Also - more of a person's actions come from the same sort of instinctual programing than humans want to admit. Intellectually we are smarter -- but look what we've done with it. I just hope we're smart enough to turn it around.

    This elephant was taught how to paint this. I think it's remarkable that they even can be taught how to paint but it's not something they learned on their own.
    Exactly how much of what you know did you learn on your own without being taught? How much of what you've learned since did you learn because you were taught the skills to do it?

    It was found that when Monkeys were taught to use language and keyboards that the parents would teach it to their young. It's always easier to teach a young animal to do things if an older animal who already knows is around, too. They watch and learn - that is a part of instinctual behavior that ALL life forms share - and yes, I mean humans, too. Our language systems are no less hardwired into our brains than animal's communications systems are. Our vocal chords allow for more extensive sound patterns. Animals use other signals besides vocal more often than humans.

    Animals learn smell about the same way we learn our natural language. They learn their pack's vocal language, too - but it's awesome what they know by smelling something. It's the same type of thing as an Indian being able to tell how long ago someone passed by by looking at footprints. We don't have a sense of smell like that so can't relate to that part of their intellect - it's there, we just can't relate to it. Animals on the other hand are able to adapt to our communications because they use all the senses we use for communicating.

    Now people will want to argue whether language in humans is instinctual. No matter what was pounded into you -- It IS an instinct.
    There have been many cases (these are sick and sad cases, but they still demonstrate the fact) where kids have been isolated from any other human. Sometimes these were cases of abuse where kids were locked up on their own and never spoken to - food shoved at them and that was it. Then there were experiments - some of those nasty little experiments that scientists and governments conduct in secret and outrage people when they find out about them...........well those types of studies were conducted by isolating two or three kids together with no communication other than with each other. The result? The kids, in all cases, develop their own language. If it were not instinctively programmed in, that would NOT have happened or would have only have happened in a percent of cases. It happens in ALL cases.

    Without the instinctual programing in our brain we'd never be able to develop more complex thought processes. So we can thank our hardwiring for our intellect -- and be aware that all other animal life has instinctual thought and thus the ability to develop higher thought processes. We may have had advantages that allowed us to excel, but we aren't the only thinking beings on this planet and anyone who refuses to admit that is speaking from egocentricity or religious ideology rather than from a scientific view of the world.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3507390].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Hey Sal, did you happen to see that 60 Minutes episode about the language of elephants? Amazing stuff. I'll have to see if I can find it and post it. One part showed this group of elephants going through a type of funeral procession after a young member died! Amazing animals and highly intelligent. Can't believe idiots kill them just for their tusks!
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3507565].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Hey Sal, did you happen to see that 60 Minutes episode about the language of elephants? Amazing stuff. I'll have to see if I can find it and post it. One part showed this group of elephants going through a type of funeral procession after a young member died! Amazing animals and highly intelligent. Can't believe idiots kill them just for their tusks!
        That's why it is so important for people to understand that animals are cognitive and sentient beings. It's easy to exploit and abuse something you see as incapable of thought or emotion. When you realize that they know what's going on and will even communicate with you, it's harder to treat them like crap. Well, for normal humans anyhow. There are people that will abuse, maim, and kill anything that moves, including their own children.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3507696].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Hey Sal, did you happen to see that 60 Minutes episode about the language of elephants? Amazing stuff. I'll have to see if I can find it and post it. One part showed this group of elephants going through a type of funeral procession after a young member died! Amazing animals and highly intelligent. Can't believe idiots kill them just for their tusks!
        HECK, they ALSO apparently create a VERY low frequency sound that we can't even hear to communicate over long distances, almost like dolphins.

        Let's face it, some things humans just WON'T ever know. And yeah, killing an elephant? ESPECIALLY when you use SO little of it. DUMB! And HEARTLESS!

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3507734].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          HECK, they ALSO apparently create a VERY low frequency sound that we can't even hear to communicate over long distances, almost like dolphins.

          Let's face it, some things humans just WON'T ever know. And yeah, killing an elephant? ESPECIALLY when you use SO little of it. DUMB! And HEARTLESS!

          Steve
          My uncle used to do that. He was quite a piece of work. He ultimately died of a heart attack during a hunting safari in Africa. Fate was kinder to him than his victims.
          Signature

          Project HERE.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3507894].message }}

Trending Topics