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MORE POLLUTION to occur!

by seasoned
18 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
This is a vent, aka rant, that affects EVERY American, and maybe EVERYONE, here to a degree. Not meant to be political.

In the early 90s, they outlawed "freon"! Or so I THOUGHT! NOPE! They outlawed R12(AKA freon)! In the mid 90s, my 1991 car leaked freon, and I was told it would cost like $500 to fix, because "freon" was illegal, etc... They would have to TRASH my old A/C, AND the "freon", and give me a NEW A/C and new "refrigerant". I never asked what they meant by "refrigerant". WHY should I care? SHOULD I have cared? WHO KNOWS? But JUST WAIT!!!!!!

Flash forward! It is TODAY! THIS home was built around 1999 AFTER the "freon" ban! OK, I asked a MORONIC question of the service guy. HEY, it is a MORONIC world, sometimes you find yet ANOTHER idiotic thing! OK! I asked the guy. This was built in 1999, so I don't need to worry about the refrigerant, RIGHT!?!?!? And he said NOPE, this is a different refrigerant! THIS is R22, they outlawed R12! WHEW, I dodged the bullet on THAT one! My home has NEW refrigerant, though it turns out it is VERY expensive! He said a can costs over $10,000USD! WHY? WELL....

He says that they are STILL building units for R22, but will stop in four years! WHY? OH, DIDN'T I mention? GUESS what the popular trade name of R22 is? YEP, FREON!!!!!!! Apparently, they couldn't just up and ban it, so it was phased out.

But the NEW refrigerant is LESS efficient! That means that,in the air conditioner I have now, it will work about as well as mine did this morning, which was NOT well! You see, mine was working at about 37.6% efficiency, and the new freon is about 30% as efficient. That means that the NEW airconditioners have to be about THREE times as large! I wonder what will happen when I have to switch over. at 3 tmes the size, it is VERY likely that it will violate all sorts of building codes. For example, it is NOW within 5 feet of the gas line, and the code says it has to be at least 3 feet away. But it means my old AC will be in a dump somewhere, after it leaks the last of its freon. HEY, it has a slow leak NOW, and just leaked 50psi worth, approx 2.5lbs of freon. The service guy said that might have taken YEARS. It was certainly more than weeks.

BE CAREFUL about who knows what. I wish I could tell you. Maybe one day they will outlaw water. One things is for sure. If you want to buy ANYTHING with refrigerant, freezer, refrigerator,
airconditioner, home, car, etc.... maybe you should wait a decade. MAYBE, by then, all these bans will be out of the way.

Steve
  • Profile picture of the author Thomas
    Unless you live in the tropics, I don't know why anyone requires artificial air conditioning at all.

    My own advanced air conditioning technology is called a window, which I open if it gets too hot or stuffy...no refrigerant required. In fact, it doesn't even need a power supply.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

      Unless you live in the tropics, I don't know why anyone requires artificial air conditioning at all.

      My own advanced air conditioning technology is called a window, which I open if it gets too hot or stuffy...no refrigerant required. In fact, it doesn't even need a power supply.
      I've recently added a major upgrade to that system.
      It's called a window fan.
      Still in the dark ages with the car (no a/c), but the motorcycle works well in the heat
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

      Unless you live in the tropics, I don't know why anyone requires artificial air conditioning at all.

      My own advanced air conditioning technology is called a window, which I open if it gets too hot or stuffy...no refrigerant required. In fact, it doesn't even need a power supply.
      Apparently you have never lived in sagebrush desert, Tommy. Once it gets over 100 F outside, it starts getting dangerously hot inside, too.

      Of course - I've quit jobs because they crank it down so cold that it's miserable to be in the building. If my fingers are getting stiff on the keyboard because it's cold, it's time to shut off the damned AC.

      That's one of the reasons people are so fat over here, Tommy. Their temperatures have to be so perfect that their bodies never have to burn calories to warm or cool themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Apparently you have never lived in sagebrush desert, Tommy. Once it gets over 100 F outside, it starts getting dangerously hot inside, too.

        Of course - I've quit jobs because they crank it down so cold that it's miserable to be in the building. If my fingers are getting stiff on the keyboard because it's cold, it's time to shut off the damned AC.

        That's one of the reasons people are so fat over here, Tommy. Their temperatures have to be so perfect that their bodies never have to burn calories to warm or cool themselves.
        Another thing about the A/C Sal.
        Last night at horseshoes I noticed something interesting.
        First 2 people weren't there because they had 'summer colds'.
        3 of the people there also had 'summer colds'.
        All 5 of them work in A/C and have it in their homes.
        Mean while the 5 of us there that don't work in A/C or have it in our homes are just as healthy as can be.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Without A/C, my house for the past 6-8 weeks or more would be about 95 degree inside. Or I could open the windows and it would be 102 degrees.

          The reason people have more colds and flu in the winter is due to being indoors with recycled heated air with other people....I'm sure same thing would work in summer in a/c work spaces.

          However, without a/c, it could be a stinky experience to work with others
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Without A/C, my house for the past 6-8 weeks or more would be about 95 degree inside. Or I could open the windows and it would be 102 degrees.

            The reason people have more colds and flu in the winter is due to being indoors with recycled heated air with other people....I'm sure same thing would work in summer in a/c work spaces.

            However, without a/c, it could be a stinky experience to work with others
            Kay we'll be getting our second heat wave starting tomorrow.
            Today it's only 86 with about 70% humidity.
            I took a shower before I went to the store and stunk by the time I hit check out.
            It's going to be a long, lonesome, week
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            Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
            Getting old ain't for sissy's
            As you are I was, as I am you will be
            You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              Kay we'll be getting our second heat wave starting tomorrow.
              Today it's only 86 with about 70% humidity.
              I took a shower before I went to the store and stunk by the time I hit check out.
              It's going to be a long, lonesome, week


              cashier: I need a price check on deodorant, ASAP!

              ThomM: But I didn't have deodorant in my shopping cart! :confused:

              cashier: You do now!
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                cashier: I need a price check on deodorant, ASAP!

                ThomM: But I didn't have deodorant in my shopping cart! :confused:

                cashier: You do now!
                Gives you an idea what the weather has been like though.
                When I took the shower I only had the cold water on and it was almost to hot
                Riding my bike it felt like I was in a convection oven and it won't start getting real hot here till tomorrow
                When I got off the bike in the parking lot the humidity caught up and I was soaking wet from sweat before I got to the store

                But I lived in Florida for 4 years and never had A/C at home, in my truck, or at work (I did construction).
                The hotter it gets the less clothes I wear. Over 90 degrees it gets real ugly, real quick
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                Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                Getting old ain't for sissy's
                As you are I was, as I am you will be
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Without A/C, my house for the past 6-8 weeks or more would be about 95 degree inside. Or I could open the windows and it would be 102 degrees.

            The reason people have more colds and flu in the winter is due to being indoors with recycled heated air with other people....I'm sure same thing would work in summer in a/c work spaces.

            However, without a/c, it could be a stinky experience to work with others
            Without AC, it was over 90 degrees in here! With the AC operating around 30%, it went down to 80 AT BEST! Operating properly, it is comfortable and could be cold, if I wanted.
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            • Profile picture of the author Thomas
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Apparently you have never lived in sagebrush desert, Tommy.
              I have to admit that I haven't; Ireland isn't exactly known for it's deserts.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

                I have to admit that I haven't; Ireland isn't exactly known for it's deserts.
                You're right about THAT! One of its nicknames is the emerald isle! Right now, everyone on my street is trying to live up to that name. Only ONE accomplished it SOMEWHAT! My next door neighbor. The rest have a OT of yellow. Of course, WE aren't in ireland.

                Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

    He said a can costs over $10,000USD! WHY? WELL....
    What are you buying, a 50 gallon drum?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      What are you buying, a 50 gallon drum?
      It ios probably like a square foot, NOT a 55 gallon drum!
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Never knew freon was banned and never heard of R12 or R22 or Ranything. I thought freon was still used. Heard of freon leaking in cars.

    I don't live in the tropics and LOVE and NEED a/c. Couldn't survive without it It's awesome when it's hot outside and coming into a nice cool house with that wonderful artificial air. Couldn't sleep without it
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    One good thing about living at 8500 ft (in the Summer time)...It's about 100 degrees 25 miles away. It's about 75 degrees right outside my front door.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
    @Thomas, you would be correct if you live in a moderate climate, but so far this summer in Texas, we've had I think one day below 100 degrees and I think it was 98 or 99 with at least 50% humidity. It averages like 102 to 103 degrees since about June 10th or so. Even when it's only 90 degrees in the house like my friend keeps it (he used window units in the bedrooms but the living room is like 90 degrees), it's pretty uncomfortable and a fan or breeze just blows hot air around. Outside is just sweltering after about 2 minutes in the sun.

    @ Seasoned. Yes, it's not well known, but the different R ratings are just about efficiency and such. They're still freon. Basically what the reality is, is that the patent runs out so they just make a different kind that also makes more money because it's more costly and all of the change-overs and repairs cost more money. It's all about the money. What they tell the public is, that "freon a.k.a. R12 is outlawed because it's bad for the environment." It's all stretched truths and covered up lies by omitting certain information. It's kind of like how Prilosec used to be prescription, but the patent ran out, and now it's Nexium, The Purple Pill. The patent ran out and now they have another pill they can market as "better" than the old one when it still has the same ingredients. It's all marketing and gimmickry to sell more meds, insurance or no.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Sunfyre7896 View Post

      @ Seasoned. Yes, it's not well known, but the different R ratings are just about efficiency and such. They're still freon. Basically what the reality is, is that the patent runs out so they just make a different kind that also makes more money because it's more costly and all of the change-overs and repairs cost more money. It's all about the money. What they tell the public is, that "freon a.k.a. R12 is outlawed because it's bad for the environment." It's all stretched truths and covered up lies by omitting certain information. It's kind of like how Prilosec used to be prescription, but the patent ran out, and now it's Nexium, The Purple Pill. The patent ran out and now they have another pill they can market as "better" than the old one when it still has the same ingredients. It's all marketing and gimmickry to sell more meds, insurance or no.
      The R ratings are not the insulation type ratings. They outlawed freon, SIMPLE! They outlawed it to reduce CFCs! If you were right about the patent, you would be WRONG for FIVE REASONS, AT LEAST:

      1. The price would not SKYROCKET!
      2. People's livelihoods would NOT be threatened! EVEN if you buy a PATENTED product, it would be illegal to prevent you from reselling that one product. How much more illegal would it be to prevent sale of a product because it was now legal for anyone to make it?
      3. They would NOT stop making it, unless they had something at LEAST as good.
      4. If they DID stop making it, EVERYONE would start making it, because demand would SKYROCKET!
      5. People like ME would NOT be saying it is OUTLAWED! Home The string I used to find this site found 216,000 on google: Google

      BTW the companies that make freon are CHEMICAL companies and generally DON'T make money from the equipment that needs to be replaced.

      In 1928, Thomas Midgley, Jr. aided by Charles Franklin Kettering invented a "miracle compound" called Freon. Freon represents several different chlorofluorocarbons, or CFCs, which are used in commerce and industry. The CFCs are a group of aliphatic organic compounds containing the elements carbon and fluorine, and, in many cases, other halogens (especially chlorine) and hydrogen. Freons are colorless, odorless, nonflammable, noncorrosive gases or liquids.

      Thomas Midgley was chosen by Charles Franklin Kettering to head the research into the new refrigerants. Frigidaire was issued the first patent, US#1,886,339, for the formula for CFCs on December 31, 1928.
      Patents in the United States are governed by the Patent Act (35 U.S. Code), which established the United States Patent and Trademark Office (the USPTO). The most common type of patent is a utility patent. Utility patents have a duration of twenty years from the date of filing, but are not enforceable until the day of issuance.
      So the patent for freon ran out in 1948! WOW, I bought my first car in 1983! I sold that before the AC went bad. My second car, where the AC went bad, was 1991, 43 YEARS *****AFTER***** the patent ran out. My house was built in 1999, about 51 YEARS *****AFTER*****!

      Nice story though, even if it doesn't make sense at all.

      BTW a blurb from that ad:

      Because as R-22 is phased out and becomes obsolete, the prices for air conditioning and heating equipment is expected to rise substantially. Just for comparison, when R-12 was outlawed back in the early 1990's, the prices for R-12 rose almost 20-fold. R-12 at one time, cost around $2-$3 per pound(wholesale), but eventually rose to over $40 per pound.
      I put that there only because it mentions the 2 types, how they are being outlawed, and how the price is going up. INCREDIBLE!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW you do NOT understand how the pharmaceutical companies work. Let me explain....

    1. They find something that could be considered to do something, try to come up with a market, sales plan, etc.... If all looks reasonable, they patent it, and try to get it approved, etc...
    2. They sell it at a price they set to meet their goals.
    3. EVENTUALLY, the patent runs out, and OTHERS START MAKING IT, AND SELL FOR LESS! It is called the AFTERMARKET, and SOME sell NONAMES referred to as GENERIC!
    A good example of this is COUMADIN! GUESS WHAT! They STILL sell COUMADIN EVEN though WARFARIN, JANTOVEN, and another brand are sold!
    4. At some point, they try to make something BETTER! For pharms, that means a better risk/benefit ratio, easier dosing, easier sale, or CHEAPER! Apparently, Warfarin(the chemical name of the three), has no equal right now. That is bad, because there are a lot of risks, it is HARD to dose, and HARD to sell. Oh well, the generics are CHEAP. The maker of coumadin has a scare campaign to try to enforce customer loyalty, but it is a SCAM!

    Steve
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