by HeySal
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I posted something in Wag's thread about the "post office sucks". Basically, this started to be a response to the pm I got about it, but I thought I'd stick it in here instead - not the pm. Just my response to it. Because I think we need to start thinking about it.


Frankly - I never had a bad time with the PO til I moved to California. In fact, in the Colorado Mountains I loved our service. Vie (postmistress) saved my ass once. I was the guest service coordinator at a local gaming town's historic hotel. I had a guest who was a sexually aggresive nut job. I closed the hotel to get out of there he was such a nut (called the owner who was also this guy's lawyer) and told him I was about to have to subdue a guest bodily. He told me if I did there would be legal problems. So I told him I was closing for the night, I refused to stay there with him there, it was getting dangerous. The next morning the guy came in when the desk clerk started her shift and conned her into telling him what town I lived in. So.........

I'm sitting in my living room and the phone rings. It was Vie at the post office to warn me..........he had come into the post office in a robe, no lie - in a robe, and demanded she tell him where I live. She didn't tell him but as soon as he hit the door she called me and warned me he was there. (town was 250 people, it wasn't like it was going to take him all day to hunt me down.

I called my boss and told him what his nutcase client was up to and asked what he had done that he contracted Stu as his lawyer. He couldn't tell me, so I asked him just to tell me if I was in danger or not. He said he honestly didn't know. So I called the cops -- Vie at the post office had just given them his license plate number and truck description and he had already been stopped - a block up the street from my house and headed in my direction.

What would have happened if Vie hadn't had been that sharp? Stu wasn't going to tell me because it would have been a breech of confidentiality. I'll never know if I was in actual physical danger or not.

A few months later I started receiving postcards from the guy (at a po box - I never did have delivery there). They were garbled and completely unintelligible. Again, Vie alerted the authorities and after I received the second one I never heard from him again.

Had that all taken place in California, I damned well would have found out if I was in danger or not.

So that's what is behind my rant ...........

Anyone else getting homesick for the good old days when everyone knew their neighbors and really gave a squat about each other? When other people were more willing to give someone a hand up that needed one than to completely scour their lives for any picky uny thing they can take offense to or not make money from? When the government protected workers a little bit from being chewed to pieces by corporate employers who see employees as nothing but "resources" to make a buck from? I've really become burned out on psychotic America. I am wondering how long our society has before it completely disintegrates and when the worst is over if people will ever be good, moral neighbors again with caring politicians who worry more about the country and it's people than what they can personally milk from them.

Rant over. I just had to spit it out. I've been walking the dog and thinking that maybe the real chaos is getting close. We walked about a mile around town and I saw so many boarded up homes for sale or rent and all the closed mom and pop businesses here. How low wages are and how much money it takes just to be legal and have daily necessities. And I wonder how long before we start seeing uprisings for real in this country.

I know I'm going to get a lot of "Well they just need to do IM" answers - and we know that's a crock. Why do people think anything on the Internet is any more immune than any other sector of society? That's trite and stupid - I'm talking about a whole civilization that seems to be in meltdown.
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah sal, you're right! I started in california. BAD. In indiana people seem to care more. Then again, this town is TINY compared to that HUGE group of cities that for whatever reason never incorporated and they are ALL supported by resources that you would THINK are just for LA.

    OH, I HAVE to say this! don't recall if I mentioned this here, and you might get a kick out of it. I slipped up and ended up gettng locked out of my home and drivable car, WTHOUT a cell phone, or coins. The nearest cell phone or possible help was over a half mile away. It was late at night. NOBODY seemed to be awake!

    Despite what anyone here may think of me, I am NOT one to knock on doors in such a case. NOT EVEN of neighbors I know that care. So I actually considered sleeping in my garage for the night!

    Well, I went out front trying to determine the best action. I guess a dog didn't like odd sounds, and he came to investigate. The dogs here are nice, so I stood my ground. Well, his owner appeared at the end of the block. I thought I remembered her. She was a lady I met about 7 years ago when she came here wondering if I was ok because my car hadn't moved apparently for 4 days. They had just come home from a wedding.

    Anyway, I used their phone to get a locksmith. I found out my locks were NOT bad AT ALL! One he didn't want to TRY, and the other took like 2 hours. He ended up driling it.

    Anyway, a dog and a neighbor saved the night!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

    I wonder how long before we start seeing uprisings for real in this country.
    Been wondering the same thing myself, Sal. It only takes one trigger to start a dangerous chain of events.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Been wondering the same thing myself, Sal. It only takes one trigger to start a dangerous chain of events.
      What is scarier to me is the fact that the dangerous chain of events might be the only way to get our freedom back - but might end up bringing in the worst tyrannical nightmare the world's ever seen yet, too.

      I'm thinking the coin is already in the air, at any rate.
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      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Been wondering the same thing myself, Sal. It only takes one trigger to start a dangerous chain of events.
      All it's going to take is for things to keep heading where they're heading. Increasing debt + bad politics = Disaster. Things like hyperinflation and civil unrest could be a reality one day.
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    • Profile picture of the author williams22
      [QUOTE=Dennis Gaskill;4475872 It only takes one trigger to start a dangerous chain of events.[/QUOTE]

      Nice one PAL !
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    YEAH, MANY are being pushed HARD. I can see maybe 12 variants that could happen. And they probably break down to 4 being a gradual decline, 4 being REALLY bad, and 4 being pretty good. I'm HOPING the good ones happen. All are probably equally likely at this point.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    We (Americans) have been being sold down the river for decades now - 'you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows'. It's about time people are now seeing the obvious - and I agree it's a powder keg at this point...

    However I have lived in California all my life and it is a beautiful state with lots of good points, so I don't know what you are always ragging on it for. Glad for you that you don't have to be here since you hate it so much.

    I will say the city you were in is kind of the dregs (2nd highest car theft rate in the nation) for example, and lots of trash there; and the city I live in is like a foreign country and I hate everything about it especially the post office, (except that I live on the water and I couldn't afford to do that anywhere else in California.)

    I will be getting out of here someday hopefully and will move somewhere people still speak English (if there is anywhere left at that point).

    ...AND I hate the state politics but I can't discuss that here - let me just say 'better dead than red' and let it go at that.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Pat - I'm glad I don't have to be there any more either. It was about 6 months longer than I could tolerate. I was getting ready to pack it up when my niece's husband unexpectedly left her, so I couldn't very well just leave her.

    Anyhow - You aren't the only one who's made comments about the city I was in. There has never been a word of disagreement from anyone when I say it's nukable trash can.

    Pat - if it weren't for the enormous population and the political crap and outrageous prices - the land itself is beautiful in many places. The Eastern part of the state in the mountains is gorgeous - with an interesting and lively history, scenic old towns and remnants from the gold days. The land is still more or less confiscated and regulated and that makes it painful for those of us who aren't happy walking on trails constructed to conform the masses of people through there. Those people ruin everything they are allowed to touch from what I've seen though - so they really can't be allowed to trash the whole country, but I need to have space so there is no way for me to be peaceful there.

    It is really nice to be somewhere that I can speak my own language to anyone I run into again and go out and just walk with the dog in open land where nobody bothers you.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Write on Sally.

    I was hoping you would find some gold 'rocks' while you were here. Did you find many other good rocks though at least?

    It was good of you to stay with your niece - sorry to hear about her bummer. You were really on a good will tour between the dog and the family. A little self-sacrifice is good for the soul though - so you got lots of good karma coming your way, Auntie Dog Healer!

    I just have a hard time leaving the ocean - but the sad part is I hardly ever see it since I left San Francisco - and I guess since most of earth is water I will maybe be able to go somewhere that has some. I think maybe Oregon or Washington would seem most natural, however they are pretty precarious like California as far as impending natural disaster theories.

    So maybe Wyoming, Colorado, or Idaho do sound like they are pretty hip and lots of beauty. I wonder if Alaska still has the male female ratio I always heard about (lots of men up that way!). Then there are my Ireland fantasies to think about...

    I think you are smart to 'head for the hills' sooner rather than later...
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Write on Sally.

      I was hoping you would find some gold 'rocks' while you were here. Did you find many other good rocks though at least?
      I saw a guy on TV cash in a pile of Rocks the other day for 15k... Im serious, it was just a pile of assorted rocks that anyone could go out and hunt for...Im all about cashing in on Rocks man! Is that selling America down the river? Or just moving a rock from one place to the next?

      JK.

      I agree Sal, my grandmothers town is so poverty stricken... I dont know how people even make it... I mean sure you could live off the land... BUT NO YOU CANT!!!!!

      As you stated, you have to have a certain amount of finances in America just to be "legal", and some people dont meet that criteria, especially with rising costs... and some truly dont have the wherewithal to be business people. Being a business person is not the answer for everyone... Just looks that way on the WF.

      If you cant generate $1000 a month at least in America, then you are no doubt in jeopardy of being a victim to some regulation and not living lawfully on some level...

      Pimpin aint easy. No wonder so many turn to crime... the average American is working in a factory for 8-10 bucks per hour and clearing $350 to $400 per week, if that. Thats the truth if you look at the backbone of our country real close. Thats barely enough to be even legal here... and NOT enough depending on where you live. Certainly not enough to build any kind of major future on.

      You know where the land of opportunity is, even in the US?

      Answer: In mi cabesa.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    YEAH PAT, it is crazy! First latin, then french, and then English. I wonder what the NEXT language will be. DON'T GUESS! I studied, right now, there are FOUR contenders! Only ONE(SPANISH) uses a latin alphabet though! Don't you love it? FIVE languages at the top, and FOUR alphabets! Number 5 has only 60% as many speakers, according to some sites, But if English dies as an official language, the number of speakers of it could easily quickly QUINTUPLE! 3 of the others are roughly about the same, and the top one is Chinese, so you can guess. The other two are HINDI and ARABIC.

    WOW sal, I guess I never noticed where you were in California. What city were you in? I was effectively in LA, though I WAS in some of the better areas. I mean on a scale of 1-10, relating to ONLY the LA area, and with 1 being worse, I would say I lived in areas I would rate an 8. But that is a BIG range! 1 is abject poverty and practically a nuclear waste dump. 10 would be like paradise where you can go out pretty sure that even a wide open door won't invite thieves. I think LA is the second biggest "city" in the US, and YEP, I have seen examples of a 1 and 10 there.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Steve - I have spent my life in NORTHERN California - it is the total opposite of LA - it couldn't be more different. There are some beautiful rich areas down South but the smog, heat and freeway nightmare would keep me out of there. Of course they have some fine beaches but who could afford to live there but movie stars (unless you want to live in a barrio or ghetto in East LA)?

      If you lived here you would know Spanish is just as much 'the official language' as English RIGHT NOW. And throughout the US what jibberish do you have to hear on every single phone recording you get at every single business? That is before or after 'press 1 for English'. Stores are all over the place here with signs written in Spanish - they don't even bother to translate English in most cases. Which just confirms my belief that the stores are only for Mexicans and not Americans. I don't belong here. The other 'majority' is Philipino.

      On cable there must be 20 Spanish language stations and a few for various Asian languages etc. But the kicker is even on the English stations we have to suffer with a few commercials that are part in Spanish - and they don't bother with sub-titles because after all we love listening to jibberish, espcially without having a clue what is being said.

      When it comes down to it, the Spanish speaking activists have let it be known there is actually nothing on 'the books' that says English is the official language of America - in fact they have a movement to make it Spanish. Afraid they are doing a lot better at it than we are because we are so politically correct.

      The US census published a story that by 2020 white/English speaking people will be in the minority. It seems like here it already happened.

      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      YEAH PAT, it is crazy! First latin, then french, and then English. I wonder what the NEXT language will be. DON'T GUESS! I studied, right now, there are FOUR contenders! Only ONE(SPANISH) uses a latin alphabet though! Don't you love it? FIVE languages at the top, and FOUR alphabets! Number 5 has only 60% as many speakers, according to some sites, But if English dies as an official language, the number of speakers of it could easily quickly QUINTUPLE! 3 of the others are roughly about the same, and the top one is Chinese, so you can guess. The other two are HINDI and ARABIC.

      WOW sal, I guess I never noticed where you were in California. What city were you in? I was effectively in LA, though I WAS in some of the better areas. I mean on a scale of 1-10, relating to ONLY the LA area, and with 1 being worse, I would say I lived in areas I would rate an 8. But that is a BIG range! 1 is abject poverty and practically a nuclear waste dump. 10 would be like paradise where you can go out pretty sure that even a wide open door won't invite thieves. I think LA is the second biggest "city" in the US, and YEP, I have seen examples of a 1 and 10 there.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

        Steve - I have spent my life in NORTHERN California - it is the total opposite of LA - it couldn't be more different. There are some beautiful rich areas down South but the smog, heat and freeway nightmare would keep me out of there. Of course they have some fine beaches but who could afford to live there but movie stars (unless you want to live in a barrio or ghetto in East LA)?
        YEAH, You're right. My mother used to work for this guy whose father is a famous rich person with a very famous high end vineyard. She and I were actually invted to visit. NEAT! The vineyard looked beautiful, and it had a restaurant and I had the best fish I ever had in my life. I guess it was the first time I ever tasted fennel!

        If you lived here you would know Spanish is just as much 'the official language' as English RIGHT NOW. And throughout the US what jibberish do you have to hear on every single phone recording you get at every single business? That is before or after 'press 1 for English'. Stores are all over the place here with signs written in Spanish - they don't even bother to translate English in most cases. Which just confirms my belief that the stores are only for Mexicans and not Americans. I don't belong here. The other 'majority' is Philipino.
        Yeah, I KNOW they INSIST on speaking SPANISH. That was true 20 years ago ALSO. Still, he constitution was written in ENGLISH, and almost EVERY other culture learned ENGLISH! I have a japanese aunt. She lived in a japanese area, and could live her life NEVER speaking english, and SHE learned! I have a danish aunt in denmark that learned english. My family is german and irish, with some french, and who knows, and THEY learned english. EVEN francois mitterrand! You remember him, he was president of FRANCE! HE learned english! My AMERICAN uncle that moved to denmark and learned DANISH told me! I mean a FRENCHMAN!?!?!? From what I have heard, they wouldn't even want to WHISPER such a thing!

        BTW just before I left, the California government INSISTED on FLUENT speakers of spanish and/or chinese for government workers!

        The Bible says that the languages were split at babbel to keep people from working together. After LOGIC, THOUSANDS of years of history, and one of the most popular books in history written THOUSANDS of years ago, people STILL dispute it. INCREDIBLE!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Do you think it's any better over here, in the cluster **** known as Europe?
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Do you think it's any better over here, in the cluster **** known as Europe?
      Clearly not after the last week.

      I'm just glad it calmed down because for a minute I thought we were getting close to total country wide anarchy.
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      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        Scary stuff indeed. My fear is now that the racial tensions will reach boiling point after the killing of the 3 Pakistani guys. You get the Muslims fighting the blacks and inevitably the English lads will take sides with the blacks against the Muzzies, then your country wide anarchy might just become a reality.

        If you don't think this could really happen, just spend a day in Toxteth. You can cut the atmosphere with a knife. All it takes is the smallest of incidents and it kicks off big time. We have seen it before, only this time it could be worse. The animosity towards Muslims in England is bordering on civil war. Actually, the animosity towards any immigrants with different skin color or religious backround is not actually animosity but downright hatred. This concerns me.

        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Clearly not after the last week.

        I'm just glad it calmed down because for a minute I thought we were getting close to total country wide anarchy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Anyone else getting homesick for the good old days when everyone knew their neighbors and really gave a squat about each other?
          For what it's worth, I know virtually everybody who lives within several miles of me (though, admittedly, I do live in a very rural area).

          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          And I wonder how long before we start seeing uprisings for real in this country.
          In most instances, civil unrest as a consequence modern economic systems doesn't turn really violent until food prices start to outpace the ability of the lower, and then middle, echelons of society to pay for them. And I don't mean those who are poor enough to have already been reliant on the State prior to that... I mean those who could previously afford to feed themselves, but now can't. When that happens, the s**t really does hit the fan...nearly everthing up to that point is small stuff, relatively speaking.

          Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

          I just have a hard time leaving the ocean - but the sad part is I hardly ever see it since I left San Francisco - and I guess since most of earth is water I will maybe be able to go somewhere that has some.

          Then there are my Ireland fantasies to think about...
          Pat,

          If your Ireland fantasies ever become reality, you'll be happy to hear that, given it's small size, I don't think it's physically possible to ever be more than 100 miles (if even that much) from the ocean anywhere in Ireland.

          Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

          Do you think it's any better over here, in the cluster **** known as Europe?
          Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

          Scary stuff indeed. My fear is now that the racial tensions will reach boiling point after the killing of the 3 Pakistani guys. You get the Muslims fighting the blacks and inevitably the English lads will take sides with the blacks against the Muzzies, then your country wide anarchy might just become a reality.

          If you don't think this could really happen, just spend a day in Toxteth. You can cut the atmosphere with a knife. All it takes is the smallest of incidents and it kicks off big time. We have seen it before, only this time it could be worse. The animosity towards Muslims in England is bordering on civil war. Actually, the animosity towards any immigrants with different skin color or religious backround is not actually animosity but downright hatred. This concerns me.
          This might sound strange (to some) coming from an Irishman, but I worry about England sometimes. Seeing how English society (and, more specifically, the larger English cities) has been affected by various changes in recent times (not just in the last few weeks, but for quite a number of years), I'm actually quite glad that Ireland has mostly resisted the same "multiculturalism ueber alles" philosophy seems to have established a foothold on the other side of the little pond (and, to a(n only-slightly) lesser extent, in a few of the other larger EU member states too).

          It's un-PC to point it out, but the population here is virtually homogenous along racial, religious, and lingusitic lines, and virtually all immigrants coming to Ireland have roughly the same characteristics. In fact, perhaps ironically, the single largest group of foreign immigrants in Ireland (by far) are actually the English. Although there have always been a large population of English expats in Ireland, that number has grown exponentially over the last few years, and is still increasing.

          And, unless they work in some very specific fields, there is very little available in an economy of less than 5 million people that isn't already available in an economy of nearly 60 million...so they aren't coming here for better economic prospects, that's for sure.
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          • Profile picture of the author bravo75
            Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

            In fact, perhaps ironically, the single largest group of foreign immigrants in Ireland (by far) are actually the English. Although there have always been a large population of English expats in Ireland, that number has grown exponentially over the last few years, and is still increasing.

            And, unless they work in some very specific fields, there is very little available in an economy of less than 5 million people that isn't also available in an economy of nearly 60 million...so they aren't coming here for better economic prospects, that's for sure.
            Times have changed. I worked in Dublin and Dundalk about 10 years ago and I could have sworn the vast majority of foreign workers were Polish.

            It's true what you say though, Ireland is still very Irish unlike England, which is turning into a very failed multi cultural experiment.

            I probably should have stayed in Ireland but the cost of living and the weather gave me the push to leave. But that's just me, I rarely stay in the same country for more than 2 years anyway.
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            • Profile picture of the author Thomas
              Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

              When it comes down to it, the Spanish speaking activists have let it be known there is actually nothing on 'the books' that says English is the official language of America - in fact they have a movement to make it Spanish. Afraid they are doing a lot better at it than we are because we are so politically correct.
              Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

              Times have changed. I worked in Dublin and Dundalk about 10 years ago and I could have sworn the vast majority of foreign workers were Polish.
              There was, and probably still are, a very large number of Poles here, but they aren't (and never were) the majority, although they do tend to work in more visible jobs like shops and pubs, so they probably seem even more prevalent than they are.

              I was going about to mention them in relation to what Pat mentioned about official languages above: there was an attempt by Polish nationalists to have Polish recognised as official language in Ireland a few years back, since there were/are so many living here. However, it all never went further than a few newspaper articles, given that it had to be pointed out to them that Ireland has two constitutionally-recognised/protected official languages (Irish and English) and any attempt to change that would require a full constitutional referendum of the entire population of Ireland, preceeded by a bill outlining such an amendment having passed both houses of parliament first. In other words, forgetaboutit! (In fairness to them, most Polish immigrants have made rapid efforts to learn English upon arrival, if they didn't already speak it, which can't be easy for them when it's level of difficulty is compounded by Irish accents .)

              Had English received the same recognition and level of protection in the US, alot of the "linguistic issues" that have arisen there would likely never have seen the light of day.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

                (In fairness to them, most Polish immigrants have made rapid efforts to learn English upon arrival, if they didn't already speak it, which can't be easy for them when it's level of difficulty is compounded by Irish accents .)

                Had English received the same recognition and level of protection in the US, alot of the "linguistic issues" that have arisen there would likely never have seen the light of day.
                You're certainly right there! I made a comment to my uncle when I was in denmark that I had an easier time understanding some danes than others, and he yelled to his danish wife that I was recognizing accents. 8-) But HEY, even native speakers have to get used to that. I imagine british is the hardest to learn in a smaller community given how some people speak with a different dialect, accent, slang, etc... For the record, I am NOT saying anything against ANYONE!

                I'm glad that Ireland had anticipated it. In California Bi-Lingual DOESN'T mean speaking 2 languages. It means speaking ONE language in addition to spanish or chinese. So if you speak german, italian, french, polish, gaelic, and english, and apply for a bilingual job, you probably won't get it. They'll tell you you aren't bilingual.

                I was once asked why I didn't just learn the other language. My retort is... I'm supposed to learn spanish, farsi, arabic, armenian, tagalog, telegu, hindi,chinese, japanese etc....? ALL are languages such speakers will speak in public and often to the exclusion of english. I think most polish people here learn english. It is SO much easier for everyone else to learn ONE language. Besides, THEY can learn it through IMMERSION!

                HEY, I learned a fair amount of danish and german before I even VISITED those countries. And a danish person LAUGHED when I asked my aunt, while he was visiting, if many Danes speak english as well as she does. He said NO! And I had a conversation in German with a guy in germany that said HE didn't understand english, etc... as I recall, the Germans dub media. The Danes SUBTITLE ONLY! So they had rosanne there, but it was in ENGLISH, with danish subtitles!

                Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author bravo75
            Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

            In most instances, civil unrest as a consequence modern economic systems doesn't turn really violent until food prices start to outpace the ability of the lower, and then middle, echelons of society to pay for them. And I don't mean those who are poor enough to have already been reliant on the State prior to that... I mean those who could previously afford to feed themselves, but now can't. When that happens, the s**t really does hit the fan...nearly everthing up to that point is small stuff, relatively speaking.
            Wanna see something really scary (Twilight Zone) terminate the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program in the States and make the entitlement society get of their asses and work 12 hours at a diner for minimum wage. The **** would really hit the fan then. The U.S would probably have to send in the Army and round them all up and stick them in Federal Emergency Management Agency camps (Maybe the government knows this is coming and built these camps for this purpose). The police would be totally outnumbered (and outgunned)

            Just imagine Thousands of lazy *******s, pissed off because their freebies have been cut off running around with GUNS!

            Maybe the gun laws in the States isn't such a good idea.







            In most instances, civil unrest as a consequence modern economic systems doesn't turn really violent until food prices start to outpace the ability of the lower, and then middle, echelons of society to pay for them. And I don't mean those who are poor enough to have already been reliant on the State prior to that... I mean those who could previously afford to feed themselves, but now can't. When that happens, the s**t really does hit the fan...nearly everthing up to that point is small stuff, relatively speaking.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

              Wanna see something really scary (Twilight Zone) terminate the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program in the States and make the entitlement society get of their asses and work 12 hours at a diner for minimum wage. The **** would really hit the fan then. The U.S would probably have to send in the Army and round them all up and stick them in Federal Emergency Management Agency camps (Maybe the government knows this is coming and built these camps for this purpose). The police would be totally outnumbered (and outgunned)

              Just imagine Thousands of lazy *******s, pissed off because their freebies have been cut off running around with GUNS!

              Maybe the gun laws in the States isn't such a good idea.

              In most instances, civil unrest as a consequence modern economic systems doesn't turn really violent until food prices start to outpace the ability of the lower, and then middle, echelons of society to pay for them. And I don't mean those who are poor enough to have already been reliant on the State prior to that... I mean those who could previously afford to feed themselves, but now can't. When that happens, the s**t really does hit the fan...nearly everthing up to that point is small stuff, relatively speaking.
              In the US, there are THREE ways to have a GUN!

              1. FREE... STEAL!
              2. Apparently as little a $25, but you could work out a deal to get it for FREE BLACK MARKET!
              3. LEGALLY. I bought a legal gun, and it cost almost $1000! t wasn't real special.

              BTW some of the #1 type are stolen from POLICE!

              Now WHICH ONES do you figure the poor will have?

              Just making a little point. Not trying to start an argument. At least in great britain they apparently don't generally have police with guns.

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author bravo75
                They bloody well should have.

                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                At least in great britain they apparently don't generally have police with guns.

                Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

              Wanna see something really scary (Twilight Zone) terminate the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program in the States and make the entitlement society get of their asses and work 12 hours at a diner for minimum wage. The **** would really hit the fan then. The U.S would probably have to send in the Army and round them all up and stick them in Federal Emergency Management Agency camps (Maybe the government knows this is coming and built these camps for this purpose). The police would be totally outnumbered (and outgunned)

              Just imagine Thousands of lazy *******s, pissed off because their freebies have been cut off running around with GUNS!

              Maybe the gun laws in the States isn't such a good idea.







              In most instances, civil unrest as a consequence modern economic systems doesn't turn really violent until food prices start to outpace the ability of the lower, and then middle, echelons of society to pay for them. And I don't mean those who are poor enough to have already been reliant on the State prior to that... I mean those who could previously afford to feed themselves, but now can't. When that happens, the s**t really does hit the fan...nearly everthing up to that point is small stuff, relatively speaking.

              Bravo - welfare isn't a system that people want to get into. The gov puts a pretty tight screw to controlling those people. Many never get off because once the gov has them in their clutches they make it so hard to get away from it that they just give up. And you know - what kids see while they are growing up is what seems normal to them. The government actually worked to keep those people down. They did a good job of it.

              Do you know that if you start collecting any type of services, if the government tells you that you will put your kid on psychotropic drugs, which they will if a teacher reports a kid for not behaving (which means showing any creativity whatsoever) and the parent refuses, they just take the kid away. I've seen it happen -- to a woman that was working her butt off to get away from needing assistance.

              And now they have 44 million people unemployed and on food stamps -- those people were working and their jobs were ripped out from under them. Put them in a diner. They'll be damned glad if they don't have to sign their souls over to the government just to eat - risk their children's well being just to feed them.

              Our poor are not all just lazy. They are trodden. Many who were able to get part-time work to save their pride and attempt independence but needed help until they found more work, were cut off the the help for working at all - they were punished for trying to have some independence and dignity.

              Now our society is becoming a big blood sucking bunch of consumers who think that anyone who isn't as well off as they are, or who gets cut out of work is just lazy and good for nothing. Somehow they think a society of people should ALL be rich. Yet they depend on the less educated or intelligent or capable to do the grunge jobs for them - and they like to trash service personnel simply because they are in a lower position than themselves. Nobody is good enough for an American with enough bucks in their pockets to at least fake the part. People have become so pompous and self centered in the last decade that many don't even seem to have human brains working any more. They don't want big gov - but if you aren't living like THEY think you should, they'll scream for legislation against you without blinking an eyelash. Self-centered, self-righteous, arrogant, materialistic, money worshiping. You are only okay if you are of the same social class or above. Anyone under you is worthless trash.

              Don't get me wrong - there are leaches that abuse the system because they don't want to work. They would be homeless "lifers" without welfare. Many would be off welfare if they could get out of the catch 22 the system builds for them and sucks them into. One of the biggest fears I hear expressed these days is from people who are having financial problems worrying about "what if I have to go on welfare?" It's horrifying to think of if you've ever known people who had to succumb during an emergency and are put through a living hell for trying to escape.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                Bravo - welfare isn't a system that people want to get into. The gov puts a pretty tight screw to controlling those people. Many never get off because once the gov has them in their clutches they make it so hard to get away from it that they just give up. And you know - what kids see while they are growing up is what seems normal to them. The government actually worked to keep those people down. They did a good job of it.

                Do you know that if you start collecting any type of services, if the government tells you that you will put your kid on psychotropic drugs, which they will if a teacher reports a kid for not behaving (which means showing any creativity whatsoever) and the parent refuses, they just take the kid away. I've seen it happen -- to a woman that was working her butt off to get away from needing assistance.

                And now they have 44 million people unemployed and on food stamps -- those people were working and their jobs were ripped out from under them. Put them in a diner. They'll be damned glad if they don't have to sign their souls over to the government just to eat - risk their children's well being just to feed them.

                Our poor are not all just lazy. They are trodden. Many who were able to get part-time work to save their pride and attempt independence but needed help until they found more work, were cut off the the help for working at all - they were punished for trying to have some independence and dignity.

                Now our society is becoming a big blood sucking bunch of consumers who think that anyone who isn't as well off as they are, or who gets cut out of work is just lazy and good for nothing. Somehow they think a society of people should ALL be rich. Yet they depend on the less educated or intelligent or capable to do the grunge jobs for them - and they like to trash service personnel simply because they are in a lower position than themselves. Nobody is good enough for an American with enough bucks in their pockets to at least fake the part. People have become so pompous and self centered in the last decade that many don't even seem to have human brains working any more. They don't want big gov - but if you aren't living like THEY think you should, they'll scream for legislation against you without blinking an eyelash. Self-centered, self-righteous, arrogant, materialistic, money worshiping. You are only okay if you are of the same social class or above. Anyone under you is worthless trash.

                Don't get me wrong - there are leaches that abuse the system because they don't want to work. They would be homeless "lifers" without welfare. Many would be off welfare if they could get out of the catch 22 the system builds for them and sucks them into. One of the biggest fears I hear expressed these days is from people who are having financial problems worrying about "what if I have to go on welfare?" It's horrifying to think of if you've ever known people who had to succumb during an emergency and are put through a living hell for trying to escape.
                Well, I for one KNOW what they do. HECK, my mother had to work under the table so income wouldn't be reported. Apparently, at least if you are retired, you have to make more than you will in a given month, or work under the table, because they take away benefits at least dollar for dollar, and the benefits aren't that high to begin with.

                But there ARE a lot that REALLY abuse the system, and encourage OTHERS too also!

                BTW, for those that don't know, "work under the table" means to work in such a way that the officials, in this case the government, don't have a record. And I am using past tense because my mother died last week.

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  And I am using past tense because my mother died last week.

                  Steve
                  I am so sorry, Steve. I hadn't heard. Losing a parent is hard. I really never know what to say - but you have my sincere condolences.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
                    Sometimes I find it amusing the misconceptions people have about the UK.

                    As if we are some quaint country where guns don't exist.

                    You know what happened when the government banned the private ownership of guns in the aftermath of the Dunblane massacre?

                    Within 5 years the number of gun crimes doubled.

                    BBC News - Analysis: UK gun crime figures

                    Everybody was shocked. Didn't those bank robbers and gangstas know they were breaking the law by keeping a gun without a licence?


                    Martin
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

                      Sometimes I find it amusing the misconceptions people have about the UK.

                      As if we are some quaint country where guns don't exist.

                      You know what happened when the government banned the private ownership of guns in the aftermath of the Dunblane massacre?

                      Within 5 years the number of gun crimes doubled.

                      BBC News - Analysis: UK gun crime figures

                      Everybody was shocked. Didn't those bank robbers and gangstas know they were breaking the law by keeping a gun without a licence?


                      Martin
                      That is one of the things people use here to support ownership. Criminals DON'T CARE!!!!! BTW at one point, they planned to outlaw a type of gun in the US. MANY, including myself, bought guns that week. The gun shops were BUSY! The price of guns was skyrocketing! WE were grandfathered in!

                      And actually, in most cases, it is AGAINST THE LAW for criminals to turn in the guns, or even register them! If they ATTEMPT to do so in the US, they can be locked in JAIL! YEP, it is a FELONY! I'm sure the UK has the SAME laws!

                      Federal possession of firearm by convicted felon lawyer, Federal gun attorneys

                      In the US it is a FELONY for a felon to possess a gun. If they turn it in, or especially if they try to register it, they could be thrown in jail. Of course, if the police find out they have a gun, they probably WILL be thrown in jail.

                      Steve
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                      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
                        Steve,

                        Possession of an unlicensed firearm by a non-felon incurs a mandatory minimum 5 year jail sentence.

                        On top of gun crime, knife crime has also spiralled but the government has got this under control - when you buy a cutlery set in a supermarket you are asked if you are over 18.

                        Steve, like you, I'm no spring chicken so when a spotty teenager robotically asks me if I'm over 18, I think it speaks volumes for the way the lunatics have taken over the asylum.


                        Martin
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                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                          Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

                          Steve,

                          Possession of an unlicensed firearm by a non-felon incurs a mandatory minimum 5 year jail sentence.

                          On top of gun crime, knife crime has also spiralled but the government has got this under control - when you buy a cutlery set in a supermarket you are asked if you are over 18.

                          Steve, like you, I'm no spring chicken so when a spotty teenager robotically asks me if I'm over 18, I think it speaks volumes for the way the lunatics have taken over the asylum.


                          Martin
                          Martin, you have to be over 18 to buy a can of compressed air also.
                          A couple years ago I bought a can at Wally World to blow out the inside of my computer. I went to a self checkout machine and when I scanned it a red light started flashing and an alarm went off.
                          To begin with I was laughing at myself for buying air, but when a manager came up to me and asked for my ID, I lost it and almost fell down from laughing so hard.
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                          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                            Martin, you have to be over 18 to buy a can of compressed air also.
                            A couple years ago I bought a can at Wally World to blow out the inside of my computer. I went to a self checkout machine and when I scanned it a red light started flashing and an alarm went off.
                            To begin with I was laughing at myself for buying air, but when a manager came up to me and asked for my ID, I lost it and almost fell down from laughing so hard.
                            COMPRESSED AIR!?!?!? WOW!

                            Yeah, I WISH I could laugh in such a case.

                            We USED to have a show here called "candid camera"! OH, it was a neat little show. It had a nice theme song: Candid Camera Theme Song

                            The premise was basically to put people through some really STUPID problem, and see how they react. TODAY, FORGET IT! They should have shows were people have to do complicated things, and NO problems happen. Now THAT would be surreal and funny!

                            Steve
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                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                              COMPRESSED AIR!?!?!? WOW!

                              Yeah, I WISH I could laugh in such a case.

                              We USED to have a show here called "candid camera"! OH, it was a neat little show. It had a nice theme song: Candid Camera Theme Song

                              The premise was basically to put people through some really STUPID problem, and see how they react. TODAY, FORGET IT! They should have shows were people have to do complicated things, and NO problems happen. Now THAT would be surreal and funny!

                              Steve
                              Good ole Allen Funt
                              That was one of my favorite shows
                              Steve believe me I look a lot older then 30 or 35.
                              On a rare occasion I still get asked for ID:confused:
                              With the air it is store policy as they have to input your date of birth to continue the transaction. In some convenience stores they ask everyone because they are afraid of getting busted for selling cigs. to minors. They figure if they ask everyone who buys them then they don't have to rely on the cashier making a judgment call. It's one heck of an ego boast, until the cashier tells you it's store policy and not because you look so young

                              But still getting carded to buy compressed air is funny not matter how you look at it.
                              I also know some stores have a policy of checking your ID if you buy spray paint. Seems if you're under 18 you are likely to huff it and not paint with it. Same goes for modeling glue:rolleyes:
                              I say let the kids have it. If they do huff it, they're doing us a favor by weeding out the gene pool.
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                              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                Good ole Allen Funt
                                That was one of my favorite shows
                                Steve believe me I look a lot older then 30 or 35.
                                On a rare occasion I still get asked for ID:confused:
                                I think I look like I am FIFTY! My MUSTACHE even has GREY in it! Still, people tell me 35!

                                With the air it is store policy as they have to input your date of birth to continue the transaction. In some convenience stores they ask everyone because they are afraid of getting busted for selling cigs. to minors. They figure if they ask everyone who buys them then they don't have to rely on the cashier making a judgment call. It's one heck of an ego boast, until the cashier tells you it's store policy and not because you look so young
                                YEAH, like I said, here under 30, and you get carded.

                                But still getting carded to buy compressed air is funny not matter how you look at it.
                                I also know some stores have a policy of checking your ID if you buy spray paint. Seems if you're under 18 you are likely to huff it and not paint with it. Same goes for modeling glue:rolleyes:
                                I say let the kids have it. If they do huff it, they're doing us a favor by weeding out the gene pool.
                                Compressed air has some propellant? As for spray paint, the MAIN reason given HERE was to prevent graffitti.

                                Steve
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                        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                          Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

                          Steve,

                          Possession of an unlicensed firearm by a non-felon incurs a mandatory minimum 5 year jail sentence.

                          On top of gun crime, knife crime has also spiralled but the government has got this under control - when you buy a cutlery set in a supermarket you are asked if you are over 18.

                          Steve, like you, I'm no spring chicken so when a spotty teenager robotically asks me if I'm over 18, I think it speaks volumes for the way the lunatics have taken over the asylum.


                          Martin
                          WOW! In the US, once you look over 30 every place generally stops asking. Surprisingly, many think I am 35! STILL, that is over 30. Yeah, I almost mentioned that the new laws would be that way, but WAS referring to when they were supposed to turn them in. STILL, THEY DON'T CARE. 8-( I mean if they DID, you could simply outlaw crime.

                          Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  And I am using past tense because my mother died last week.

                  Steve
                  Yes, I'm also sorry to hear that chap.

                  Like Sal I'm not fantastic at things like this but you have my sympathies too.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Steve my condolences also for your loss.

                    The government's Making Home Affordable program or HAMP is a scam. It was designed to look as if it would help American homeowners but it is nothing more than another prop for the banks. Thanks Big Brother.
                    Lori, let me tell you a little story :rolleyes:
                    Around 4 years ago I got a month behind on my mortgage, right after it was announced that new programs where in place to help people who may go into foreclosure. So I called the bank and told them I was just layed off and needed help. They said they had all sorts of programs to help me and to send them my financial information, which I did.
                    They replied back saying that my expenses where more then my income, so there was nothing they could do to help me until I went back to work.
                    For 6 months (during a New York winter) I had to make my regular mortgage payment late, so they added on a late payment fee to it even though the bank had agreed to let me make my payment 2 weeks after it was due. During that time I had to juggle all my other bills including my heating bill just to keep them from foreclosing, which they threatened me with every month.
                    So for six months I kept the house just warm enough so the pipes wouldn't freeze, ran up a $1,000 electric bill I'm still paying off, and ate 1 meal a day.
                    The bank did finally work out a repayment plan after I went back to work, but near the end of it they canceled the plan (saying I canceled it) and tried to foreclose on me. By that time though I was only behind on my escrow for property taxes, so I told them to have at it. They figured it out and backed down.


                    Sal, my biggest concerns now are food.
                    It's not that I can't afford it, it's that I don't like the choices at the store.
                    I've become extremely concerned over GMO's. I research all the 'organic' choices at the market before I buy and have been using alternate stores that carry organic meats, veggies, fruits, etc.
                    All my drinking water comes from the spring on Spring Ave.
                    I won't get into my ACV use, because I've talked about that plenty in the past. But between that and making smarter choices in my eating I've noticed some major changes in my over all health. The two biggies are I don't have a problem with stress or depression any more.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Thomas
                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                      And I am using past tense because my mother died last week.
                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                      As far as I am concerned, she was basically gone years ago due to alzheimers, etc... She died from complications due to that.
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                      Steve my condolences also for your loss.
                      Sorry for your loss, Steve. For what it's worth, I offer my condolences too.
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                    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post


                      Sal, my biggest concerns now are food.
                      It's not that I can't afford it, it's that I don't like the choices at the store.
                      I've become extremely concerned over GMO's. I research all the 'organic' choices at the market before I buy and have been using alternate stores that carry organic meats, veggies, fruits, etc.
                      All my drinking water comes from the spring on Spring Ave.
                      I won't get into my ACV use, because I've talked about that plenty in the past. But between that and making smarter choices in my eating I've noticed some major changes in my over all health. The two biggies are I don't have a problem with stress or depression any more.

                      Thom,

                      Where I moved, I have to go 14 miles to a grocery store. There is a grocery and a SuperWalmart. That's it within 26 miles.

                      Now I just came from California where the prices are crazy. Walmart, WinCo and the rest of the major chains were way above Idaho prices - so you can figure what the real groceries were doing.

                      So I figure - kewl, I'm out of California - I won't have such high food prices to pay. Um..........yeah that would have been the logical assumption. Walmart is pulling a scam on these people something furious. They know they are about the only place for people to shop out in this region and they have their prices jacked like I've never seen the likes of before. If it's not processed crap that barely resembles food it's unaffordable. If it is processed crap that doesn't really resemble food, it's at least obtainable. I wanted to buy a couple of organic greenpeppers for my cabbage stew the other day and they wanted 5 bucks for 2 green peppers - and didn't have any non-organic. I had just come from the other grocery and green peppers had been 89 cents apiece so it was one of the items I decided to buy at Walmart. I took the greenpeppers to the help desk and called a manager and read him the riot act for price gouging and told him convenient or not - I would never walk in there again (where a small can of dog food is as high as convenience store prices).

                      So I went to the other store and low and behold in the 45 minutes since I'd been there, green peppers had gone up 10 cents - 99 cents in the middle of summer, only around 185 miles from the nation's breadbasket, for one stinking mid sized green pepper - and not even organic.

                      We have an organic food co-op about ready to open up in my town. It's not real certain what their prices will be, but I have a feeling they will beat the stores up the road's prices on just regular trash food. I'm hoping that they offer raw milk. I'm sick of drinking stuff that is homoginized and pasteurized until every nutrient in it has been killed.

                      I'm starting to feel the effects of bad food, too.

                      I'm sick of foreclosures and walking by boarded up homes that used to be well groomed and cared for.

                      I also am going 26 miles again to look for work. I've walked into almost every business out here to find ANYTHING I can find. Part time is fine - it's all I need - but I do need it. The people are just awesome nice as you could ever ask for -- but there is nothing out here and almost all that I talked to tell me the same thing --- don't bother looking here. There isn't anything - go to Carson City. Carson is a larger city and near the CA border so I don't know what to expect. It looks like a decent place - I wouldn't even mind living there........but not sure that the people are going to be nearly as open and friendly there as they are here. Will be finding out soon. I want to get an ecological specialist certificate and want to place myself in tourism so I can do some consulting when I get back to Idaho next year. That certificate will take me into any industry out there in a capacity that I will enjoy being there in. So far my Sweet corporate owned Uncle Sam is being a pervert about helping me get that done (don't mean aid - I mean complicating crap). *******.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                        The people are just awesome nice as you could ever ask for -- but there is nothing out here and almost all that I talked to tell me the same thing --- don't bother looking here. There isn't anything - go to Carson City. Carson is a larger city and near the CA border so I don't know what to expect. It looks like a decent place - I wouldn't even mind living there........but not sure that the people are going to be nearly as open and friendly there as they are here. Will be finding out soon.
                        It's been a while, but I lived in Carson for a short while. The people are good and friendly. But you're still going to have a problem with getting a job. Nevada has the highest unemployment in the USA and anytime you're in a small town, people are going to give jobs to people they've known for years and years. It's only natural and Carson won't be any different.

                        Nevada is dependant on tourism and the service industry. Tourist season is almost over, so I really doubt there will be more jobs in a month than there are now.

                        Lake Tahoe is just over the mountain from Carson, this time of year you may have a better shot of getting a job there...But I didn't care for the wages or standard of living when I worked in Tahoe.

                        But between Tahoe and Carson you'll see that on the Cali side of the state line there's tall ponderosa pines and on the Nevada side, there's no trees. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why there are no trees living in Nevada. I finally read that it's because of the silver mines. The cut all the pine trees to make supports for the silver mines.

                        If you want to see a "great" example of deforestation, drive from Carson to Tahoe. You can tell the state line simply by the trees. California has them, Nevada doesn't. And it's been over 100 years and they're not growing back.

                        BTW, the water in Lake Tahoe is purer than any bottled water you'll ever buy.
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                        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                          Kurt - from what I've been seeing, everywhere in the US thinks they've got the worst unemployment rates. Frankly - Carson city and Reno aren't that bad off. I didn't want to drive that far. If I get work in either place I'll probably move a little bit closer in. I'm still set on heading for Idaho next year. Not planning on staying here forever. Gonna have some fun while I am here though.

                          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                          It's been a while, but I lived in Carson for a short while. The people are good and friendly. But you're still going to have a problem with getting a job. Nevada has the highest unemployment in the USA and anytime you're in a small town, people are going to give jobs to people they've known for years and years. It's only natural and Carson won't be any different.

                          Nevada is dependant on tourism and the service industry. Tourist season is almost over, so I really doubt there will be more jobs in a month than there are now.

                          Lake Tahoe is just over the mountain from Carson, this time of year you may have a better shot of getting a job there...But I didn't care for the wages or standard of living when I worked in Tahoe.

                          But between Tahoe and Carson you'll see that on the Cali side of the state line there's tall ponderosa pines and on the Nevada side, there's no trees. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why there are no trees living in Nevada. I finally read that it's because of the silver mines. The cut all the pine trees to make supports for the silver mines.

                          If you want to see a "great" example of deforestation, drive from Carson to Tahoe. You can tell the state line simply by the trees. California has them, Nevada doesn't. And it's been over 100 years and they're not growing back.

                          BTW, the water in Lake Tahoe is purer than any bottled water you'll ever buy.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                            Kurt - from what I've been seeing, everywhere in the US thinks they've got the worst unemployment rates. Frankly - Carson city and Reno aren't that bad off. I didn't want to drive that far. If I get work in either place I'll probably move a little bit closer in. I'm still set on heading for Idaho next year. Not planning on staying here forever. Gonna have some fun while I am here though.
                            Except Nevada does have the highest unemployment rate, and since I don't live there, I'm not part of "they".

                            And like I pointed out above, tourist season is just about over in Carson and Reno. I've lived in Reno, drove a cab there. I know the busy and slow times of the year for the area. Good luck in the fall/winter there with work. Not saying it can't be done, just that it won't be easy.


                            Note that the table below is missing some states...Those states are statistically close to that of the US as a country.


                            Regional and State Employment and Unemployment Summary

                            Table A. States with unemployment rates significantly differ-
                            ent from that of the U.S., June 2011, seasonally adjusted
                            --------------------------------------------------------------
                            State | Rate(p)
                            --------------------------------------------------------------
                            United States (1) ...................| 9.2
                            |
                            Alaska ..............................| 7.5
                            Arkansas ............................| 8.1
                            California ..........................| 11.8
                            Delaware ............................| 8.0
                            District of Columbia ................| 10.4
                            Florida .............................| 10.6
                            Hawaii ..............................| 6.0
                            Iowa ................................| 6.0
                            Kansas ..............................| 6.6
                            Louisiana ...........................| 7.8
                            |
                            Maine ...............................| 7.8
                            Maryland ............................| 7.0
                            Massachusetts .......................| 7.6
                            Michigan ............................| 10.5
                            Minnesota ...........................| 6.7
                            Montana .............................| 7.5
                            Nebraska ............................| 4.1
                            Nevada ..............................| 12.4
                            New Hampshire .......................| 4.9
                            New Mexico ..........................| 6.8
                            |
                            New York ............................| 8.0
                            North Dakota ........................| 3.2
                            Oklahoma ............................| 5.3
                            Pennsylvania ........................| 7.6
                            Rhode Island ........................| 10.8
                            South Carolina ......................| 10.5
                            South Dakota ........................| 4.8
                            Texas ...............................| 8.2
                            Utah ................................| 7.4
                            Vermont .............................| 5.5
                            |
                            Virginia ............................| 6.0
                            Wisconsin ...........................| 7.6
                            Wyoming .............................| 5.9
                            --------------------------------------------------------------
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                • Profile picture of the author bravo75
                  I am very sorry to hear about your mother passing over. May her soul rest in peace.

                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  And I am using past tense because my mother died last week.

                  Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
              Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

              Maybe the gun laws in the States isn't such a good idea.

              In most instances, civil unrest as a consequence modern economic systems doesn't turn really violent until food prices start to outpace the ability of the lower, and then middle, echelons of society to pay for them. And I don't mean those who are poor enough to have already been reliant on the State prior to that... I mean those who could previously afford to feed themselves, but now can't. When that happens, the s**t really does hit the fan...nearly everthing up to that point is small stuff, relatively speaking.
              The gun laws in the States has been a controversial topic for many years. Here in Texas, I would guess everyone owns a gun. Our governor, currently a presidential candidate, supported a law that would have allowed college students to carry concealed weapons on campus.

              Millions of Americans who never had to worry about feeding their families are worried now. They lost everything when the housing market collapsed. They cannot feed their families.

              With unemployment numbers at the highest since the Great Depression (remember those numbers do not include the ones whose benefits have run out, the under employed, the self employed), many people are fed up with the status quo and with no end in sight, civil unrest is not a question of it, it is a matter of when.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aileen Flannigan
    I guess we're all experiencing the same... grrrrhhh...
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    HeySal - I cannot imagine how frightened you were when you got that phone call from Vie. What an angel to call and warn you. And for that whacko to send you postcards? Scary.

    Steve - Way cool your neighbor checked up on you because your car hadn't moved for days. And what luck that they were up, just returning from a wedding.

    Patrician - California is a beautiful state. I never lived in Cali, but grew up in Vegas, had relatives in Vista and San Diego, and took regular vacations there every year. I sure miss it. Great "red" quote at the end of your post.

    Dennis - so true, isn't it? It only takes one trigger to start a dangerous chain of events.

    I am homesick for the good ol' days.

    When I was a kid, the neighbors all watched out for each other. When we were kids, we played outside, rode our bikes, built forts, played with neighborhood kids. If a parent witnessed a disagreement or a scuffle, they would come out of their house and discipline the kid causing the raucous, regardless of whether it was their kid or not.

    Vegas has been hard hit by the failed housing market, creating terrible economic conditions. On a recent trip to Vegas, I drove through my old stomping grounds and didn't recognize it. It was a surreal experience. It seemed every other house had a for sale sign in the yard. Others homes boarded up. Dolls, toys, broken bicycles strewn amongst the yards of the foreclosed homes, a reminder of families who once made those houses their homes.

    I too worry about the fate of this country. With so many people losing their homes, their jobs, their pride, and their families, it is difficult to visualize a country that once was a great country.

    As a consumer advocate for the past two years, I have been helping people fight foreclosure. One of my members who has been fighting foreclosure for over two years posted that she might as well go lay down on a busy highway, she couldn't take it anymore. I called her and we talked for hours.

    That is one example of the dozens of emails and pleas for help I receive weekly. There are many people contemplating suicide because they are losing everything near and dear to them. Families are being destroyed because the parents blame each other for their financial situations, leading to divorce and broken homes.

    I do not think most Americans realize the severity of the housing market collapse. 7,000,000 foreclosures are expected by the end of this year. That number does not include the people who have participated in short sales, nor giving their homes back to the bank via deeds in lieu of foreclosure.

    So what do we do? We continue to do whatever we can to make a difference. We do the best we can at being a better wife or husband, mom or dad, neighbor and friend. We help those who need help. We engage in random acts of kindness and put our selfishness away, even if it means costing us our precious time.

    We engage in intelligent conversations to help understand the severity of the declining economic conditions and what can be done to repair them.


    Talk about rambling. Yikes. Sorry. Got started typing and couldn't stop.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
      Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

      We engage in intelligent conversations to help understand the severity of the declining economic conditions and what can be done to repair them.
      I heard Greenspan said there will never be a default, not when money can be printed to pay it. Which in turn devalue the dollar and cause inflation. Some say Hyper-inflation.

      Of course your not a prophet, but what do you see coming?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

        I heard Greenspan said there will never be a default, not when money can be printed to pay it. Which in turn devalue the dollar and cause inflation. Some say Hyper-inflation.

        Of course your not a prophet, but what do you see coming?
        Yeah, a guy like greenspan that dares to SAY such a thing should give up ALL benefits, the past decade or so of all income, and be thrown in jail for 40 years as a TRAITOR! I mean GIVE ME A BREAK! One person once said he could see the dollar dropping 30%. The NEXT trading day had what was then the biggest loss in HISTORY! And THAT was in 1987!

        greenspan doesn't care! He can print 2 TRILLION for himself! But what of the poor billionare that only has 2 billion? Maybe 200 million is in gold which is confiscated! Down to 1.8B, and maybe 40% is taxed, to about 1B, and then you have 10000% inflation, to bring it to 10Million, and have 14% inflation which, with NO taxes, means he can live with less than 1Million for about 7 years. This isn't THAT unreal, WORSE things have happened in the past, EVEN in the US! GRANTED, the high inflation only happened a few times. The gold confiscation only happened once, that we know of. And I didn't even count ongoing taxes! I ALSO forgot about stock and bond losses. That could EASILY cut my estimates to a mere FRACTION! That billionare may end up in one of the company owned mcdonalds right beside the ex franchisees!

        And IMAGINE all the people, like me, that were just starting to get enough. We were told to save 10-20%, NOT 200000%! HEY, anyone know where can get an extra $6,000,000USD? Maybe I'll be lucky, and not live that long.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Heysal's gonna lynch me for hijacking her thread. Sorry ma'm, just replying to Richard Van's post. This should really be in the "London's burning thread"
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Sal, I don't think we're ever going to see the days again when your neighbors
      cared about you. Heck, forget about even knowing who your neighbors are.

      I know two of mine, in 22 years of living here.

      When I lived in Irvington, as a kid, I knew almost everybody in the court (
      we lived in a cul) and everybody knew me. (Not sure if that was always a good
      thing)

      We had birthday parties and every kid in the court was invited. We'd go
      bowling or play miniature golf or whatever.

      We had SOME crew.

      Yeah...I miss those days.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Lori - I wish you were here when my son lost his two properties to foreclosure a few years ago (after losing his job in the mortgage industry).

    You might know all of the BS programs they advertised to assist people in foreclosure were not retroactive or somehow did not apply in any case - and even one property that was sold to him totally illegally (with government certified toxic water wells undisclosed, financier same as real estate agent, etc.), he lost his whole shirt - all equity, his home - everything.

    I have never put much value in material things (hippy-dippy) but I can see how if you worked for something all your life and did all the right things, and then something or someone took them all away it could be life shattering. First your house then your country. You will have some broken people too beaten down to fight back - and then the scary part is the ones who will revolt - when all out anarchy starts (continues) nobody will be safe - the guilty and the innocent will all perish together.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Lori - I wish you were here when my son lost his two properties to foreclosure a few years ago (after losing his job in the mortgage industry).

      You might know all of the BS programs they advertised to assist people in foreclosure were not retroactive or somehow did not apply in any case - and even one property that was sold to him totally illegally (with government certified toxic water wells undisclosed, financier same as real estate agent, etc.), he lost his whole shirt - all equity, his home - everything.

      I have never put much value in material things (hippy-dippy) but I can see how if you worked for something all your life and did all the right things, and then something or someone took them all away it could be life shattering. First your house then your country. You will have some broken people too beaten down to fight back - and then the scary part is the ones who will revolt - when all out anarchy starts (continues) nobody will be safe - the guilty and the innocent will all perish together.
      So terribly sorry to hear about your son's situation. I would have done everything I could to help him.

      If anyone is considering using a loan modification company, check them out completely. Chances are, they are not legit.

      The government's Making Home Affordable program or HAMP is a scam. It was designed to look as if it would help American homeowners but it is nothing more than another prop for the banks. Thanks Big Brother.

      I am meeting with a couple here in Texas today. The Mr. is 80+, the Mrs., late 70s. They have been in real estate for 30 years and cannot pay their mortgage. They are very well known in this area and have never had to worry about money. They have a lot of equity in their house, over a million, and the banks want their house. I am doing everything I can to postpone the inevitable, but they are devastated. It breaks my heart. At the same time, it makes me really mad.

      If more people knew what the banks did, they would be appalled and realize who really is in charge of this country (it's not the politicians).
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Hi Lori,

        I know over here a lot of people have a severe distrust of the banks especially after causing pretty much the entire global recession, taxing the citizens then paying themselves big fat bonus's as always.

        I often wonder at the depths to which the banks pull the purse strings as well as the governments puppet strings.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Hi Lori,

          I know over here a lot of people have a severe distrust of the banks especially after causing pretty much the entire global recession, taxing the citizens then paying themselves big fat bonus's as always.

          I often wonder at the depths to which the banks pull the purse strings as well as the governments puppet strings.
          I am not going to pretend to be an expert on British government and economy -- but it's not hard to see that there are parallels in the two countries - economic strife, surveillance, immigration tolerance to the point of native cultural destruction, parental rights taken away --

          In America, we are owned by World Bank, which was illegally installed on us as the FED in order to keep people unaware that the money that is being soaked illegally out of our paychecks is going to a bank and not the government. I tried to bell people 30 years ago that the FED is a bank and not part of our treasury. I was called a nut case for saying so. At least people are figuring that out en mass now.

          Now - if you go to the World Bank website -- they have a list of "projects" they are funding worldwide. It is a list a mile long and infiltrates dozens if not a hundred or more countries. If the bank is funding these projects - what is being used for collateral?

          From what I can see, World Bank owns England, too.

          Now the banks are what caused the financial collapse - and it could have easily been avoided had politicians over a decade ago stood up and said to them "HEY - You can't do that, it's illegal". They KNEW and they turned their heads.

          Now what happens when someone can't pay their loans? The bank takes possession of the collateral is what. Unfortunately - in countries that have World Bank loans (and you can find England's World Bank "projects" on their website list, too), if the economy collapses and the debt isn't payed - who owns the country?

          Now this part I'm not really sure of but it stands very strong to reason if you draw a logical path -- to the UN.

          Whether people think that "New World Order" is a stupid conspiracy theory or are scared crapless of it - one thing is certain. We have global doctrines that are being enforced.

          We have the World Health Organization (WHO). Most countries have entered a pact with that organization. In America it is called the CODEX Alimentarius. People called that a conspiracy because they didn't see a law being written - it's not a law it's a TREATY. Health laws being written comply to the treaty - so you have to look at the over 1500 different documents in the treaty to find where the law is coming from. It's not from the US congress.

          Same with the WTO (World Trade Organization). Look at NAFTA - it's global manipulation of trade tariffs supposedly to make trade fair and to keep the global economy fair to all so nobody's economy can get smacked by a power leader. Good idea? Sure, in theory maybe. The US just violated this treaty by slapping tariff on recycled clothing. The treaty is to support the recycling for second hand clothes (go to charities). In the US though - the Customs and Home Security (it used to just be Customs, now it's part of the Home Security division) decided that if the clothes weren't tattered enough to show "considerable wear", in other words, if they were in a condition people could still wear them, then they weren't applicable under the "recycled" ruling. So now second hand clothes imports are subject to Tariff unless they are ripped up to be used for rags when they cross the border. WTF?

          Now go back to the UN. People don't seem to realize it yet - but a LOT of laws that are coming down in the US right now are from UN policy and not from our Congress. Don't like the way parental rights are being Usurped? Follow the law - it goes back to the UN -- the Millinium doctrine which has some disguised global law that is not always stated in the doctrine itself - but is referred back to other doctrines within that one. So you have to do a lot of paper shuffling to find the actual treaties that are applicable and where our laws are coming from takes ages to discover anymore. People presume that our Congress writes them. You are not allowed to slap your child's mouth when they bad mouth you either in England or the US because of UN treaties.

          And if you follow the Milleneum doctrine back you will see that it's major goal is to restore the ecosystems globally because we're in a human caused major extinction right now that is threatening human existence. For a decade there were UN discussions on how to control global population growth so we don't breed ourselves off the planet. They knew that if they installed a global law like China's birth rate law, that people would go up in arms and revolt. So they've used other methods. They talk about education, which does help, and money distribution, which also helps - poverty and ignorance lead to over-breeding. But if you look at a lot of other policies, you find that there is absolute control underlying them.

          We are, at least most countries, pretty much run by global policies - and we're being funded by World Bank. Where does this lead?

          Considering we're in the middle of a major extinction, there is hope that the chaos they are causing is for a good purpose. Tracing the development of much of this stuff doesn't lead to a feeling of concern for human or ecological welfare, though. It's looking like a dominance game, pure and simple. A lot of people -- a LOT.....um most....will die if this extinction isn't stopped - but in the US they allow corporations to continue to destroy things even as other action is being taken to stop it.

          I've been studying the global unity along with the extinction and to tell you the truth --- I can't get anything to hang together with any logical coherence whatsoever. I think we just have a global aristocracy ruling the planet tht has gone totally tanked out bat sh*t crazy. That's the only way anything really makes any sense.
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          • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            I've been studying the global unity along with the extinction and to tell you the truth --- I can't get anything to hang together with any logical coherence whatsoever. I think we just have a global aristocracy ruling the planet tht has gone totally tanked out bat sh*t crazy. That's the only way anything really makes any sense.
            You've put into words what I've been thinking for a while. You can't see it, but you can see the shadow, or the effects of the cause.

            I saw on fox news two experts on something or other say that we are in pre-revolutionary times now. There's something in the air, and a lot of people feel it.

            I can't stand watching the news anymore, news anchors telling me what I should FEEL after they tell the facts.

            I had no idea how easy the masses could be so easily programmed. But I should have known, I was in the service and I've expierenced mind programming on a massive scale.

            I guess it's the same in marketing. You don't need to control a persons thoughts, you just need to influence a small part of it to change a persons actions at key moments.

            Sorry for my own rant - you guys really know how to get me thinking.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Sal you may want to look into joining that co-op. I'm looking at two here trying to decide which I'll join or even joining both. You can get great discounts for joining and working a few hours a week or month.
              The raw milk thing is driving me crazy. I wish there where still dairy farms near me, at least then I could sneak into the pastures at night and get some from the source
              I can get goats milk though that has only been slightly pasteurized from John and Laurie. It's not a consistent supply though cause they only have one nanny and she just had 2 kids
              They also have fresh eggs and if I can catch them, free range chickens
              My garden sucked this year, but I'm already getting it ready for next year.
              I've found a couple of sources for heirloom seeds that I know aren't GMO.
              I'm working out a plan with some of my horseshoe group to do what we are calling co-op gardening. We will each grow (in our own gardens) the veggies we want for ourselves and at least one veggie in quantity to share with the others. I'm looking at a pretty good apple harvest this year from my two trees and will most likely build an apple press and make my own ACV.
              The video I posted a while ago really hit home with me, especially the line "You can pay the farmer or pay the hospital", ah heck here's the video again
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

        I am meeting with a couple here in Texas today. The Mr. is 80+, the Mrs., late 70s. They have been in real estate for 30 years and cannot pay their mortgage. They are very well known in this area and have never had to worry about money. They have a lot of equity in their house, over a million, and the banks want their house. I am doing everything I can to postpone the inevitable, but they are devastated. It breaks my heart. At the same time, it makes me really mad.

        If more people knew what the banks did, they would be appalled and realize who really is in charge of this country (it's not the politicians).
        That last statement is like saying hat japan shouldn't have been concerned about the atom bombs because the conventional stuff did the REAL damage. Let's tell the truth, they are BOTH at fault, and the politicians had a hand in the other stuff as well! ALMOST like the atom bomb would have been FAR harder to create without conventional weapons. An atom bomb is actually sort of detonated by a conventional one.

        Anyway, regarding the problem that couple has, have they asked the bank to present the note? If the bank doesn't have the note, the people don't have to pay them, and apparently the US banking system at least is VERY careless! If they have had the mortgage for decades with the same bank, the chances may be good that they don't have the note. This has delayed foreclosures for MONTHS or YEARS! If they can pay, it is a good idea to still do so, but this tactic COULD save them.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          That last statement is like saying hat japan shouldn't have been concerned about the atom bombs because the conventional stuff did the REAL damage. Let's tell the truth, they are BOTH at fault, and the politicians had a hand in the other stuff as well! ALMOST like the atom bomb would have been FAR harder to create without conventional weapons. An atom bomb is actually sort of detonated by a conventional one.

          Anyway, regarding the problem that couple has, have they asked the bank to present the note? If the bank doesn't have the note, the people don't have to pay them, and apparently the US banking system at least is VERY careless! If they have had the mortgage for decades with the same bank, the chances may be good that they don't have the note. This has delayed foreclosures for MONTHS or YEARS! If they can pay, it is a good idea to still do so, but this tactic COULD save them.

          Steve
          Hello Steve.
          The truth is people are to blame.
          Banks are to blame.
          Government is to blame.

          People bought homes they could not afford. Predatory lending was as common as going to the grocery store. Mortgage companies sprouted up on street corners across the US and only a pulse was required to get a loan.

          The banks took advantage of a loophole in our real property system that did not require real estate documents be recorded. Banksters, together with Fannie Mae, and a few others, created a Mortgage Electronic Recording System or MERS. MERS circumvented recording real property documents and instead, tracked loans from being shuffled around like a game of hot potato. Banksters took advantage of the deregulation of the financial industry and hence, the rampant predatory lending and imminent demise of the housing market.

          The government looked the other way as it filled its coffers with promises of campaign contributions from those who stood to make the most money during the housing boom.

          It is time to stop the blame game and fix the problem. Pointing fingers is nothing more than a distraction, and it is working well, keeping the problem at bay and no new laws in place to prevent a future meltdown.

          I wish it were as easy as produce the note to prevent foreclosure. It is much more complex than that. The original notes were separated from the security instrument, i.e. the deed of trust or mortgage. Those documents were most likely lost in the hustle to get the loans pooled, put into a trust and sold on Wall Street, similar to a mutual fund.

          Gone are the days of knowing who owns your loan. There could be one to a thousand or more investors on one home loan, thanks to securitization.

          If the bank cannot produce the original note in court, no problem, they simply tell the court they lost it and ask that a copy be considered an original. As ludicrous as this theory seems, it works.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Bravo - I think that considering the greed level of our congress, and considering the attempts they are making to completely usurp our rights and subjugate us, that if we were not armed and generally pissed off - we would have already entered complete tyranny. The upper crust out here are taking everything they can get their hands on and have made it almost impossible for us to penetrate their hold on leadership. This is not the time for them to try to relieve us of our guns. Considering the problems coming through our South border it wouldn't even have to be our leaders causing problems. If we were unarmed now, with 13 million illegal immigrants, many of which are US hostile and/or drug cartel gansters, we would be set up for complete slaughter without our guns. As long as those dangerous to us know we have the means to fight back, situations stay in a veritable amount of control. Cities like DC that installed gun laws ended up with major amounts of violent crime.

    This country has also been subjected to cultural experimentation and the PC crap we've been spoonfed is not working to solve hate issues as our stupid, nearsighted officials had supposed it would. Linguisitic divisions aren't the main root of the problem however they do keep the gov able to control various sectors easier - and with jobs becoming scarce it is causing turmoil when immigrants get jobs over natural citizens because they speak languages other than our own. We are looking at possible exlposive situations because of the hostile nature of immigrants and lack of immigration control - or even protection from armed immigrants. The amount going on before PC came into play would have been termed a "hostile invasion". Of course we aren't allowed to say so any more. Racial tensions are high, also becoming worse because of PC and pandering to one group over others. Religious tensions are busting at the seams. Devout Christians and Devout Muslims do not even start to play well together and each would love to wipe the other right off the map. I'm surprised we've had no religious wars yet but think they are coming. They were always rife in the middle east - I don't know how our gov expects that it will be different here. Zealots are zealots - I don't care what nice little faction they want to sport. We have a lot of rage coming from several factions now.

    Put that all on top of our upper echelons being quick to take any parental rights they can get from parents and you have a situation that violates the very instincts we were born with. If they take too many of those rights, and keep ripping kids out of homes just because parents try to be parents and we are going to see some explosion somewhere. You can't take ANY mammal's kids and not expect to have a fight on your hands.

    What is giong on is that they think they have enough survelliance, regulation and weapons to completely take us down and subject us to abject slavery to the elite. I think it won't be long before they find out they sorely misjudged humanity. They've taken things almost as far as they can go on a global scale. Hell is breaking loose in more and more countries all the time because of elite greed. They wanted global - when it caves, it's going to cave just that way - globally.
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Bravo - I think that considering the greed level of our congress, and considering the attempts they are making to completely usurp our rights and subjugate us, that if we were not armed and generally pissed off - we would have already entered complete tyranny. The upper crust out here are taking everything they can get their hands on and have made it almost impossible for us to penetrate their hold on leadership. This is not the time for them to try to relieve us of our guns. Considering the problems coming through our South border it wouldn't even have to be our leaders causing problems. If we were unarmed now, with 13 million illegal immigrants, many of which are US hostile and/or drug cartel gansters, we would be set up for complete slaughter without our guns. As long as those dangerous to us know we have the means to fight back, situations stay in a veritable amount of control. Cities like DC that installed gun laws ended up with major amounts of violent crime.

      This country has also been subjected to cultural experimentation and the PC crap we've been spoonfed is not working to solve hate issues as our stupid, nearsighted officials had supposed it would. Linguisitic divisions aren't the main root of the problem however they do keep the gov able to control various sectors easier - and with jobs becoming scarce it is causing turmoil when immigrants get jobs over natural citizens because they speak languages other than our own. We are looking at possible exlposive situations because of the hostile nature of immigrants and lack of immigration control - or even protection from armed immigrants. The amount going on before PC came into play would have been termed a "hostile invasion". Of course we aren't allowed to say so any more. Racial tensions are high, also becoming worse because of PC and pandering to one group over others. Religious tensions are busting at the seams. Devout Christians and Devout Muslims do not even start to play well together and each would love to wipe the other right off the map. I'm surprised we've had no religious wars yet but think they are coming. They were always rife in the middle east - I don't know how our gov expects that it will be different here. Zealots are zealots - I don't care what nice little faction they want to sport. We have a lot of rage coming from several factions now.

      Put that all on top of our upper echelons being quick to take any parental rights they can get from parents and you have a situation that violates the very instincts we were born with. If they take too many of those rights, and keep ripping kids out of homes just because parents try to be parents and we are going to see some explosion somewhere. You can't take ANY mammal's kids and not expect to have a fight on your hands.

      What is giong on is that they think they have enough survelliance, regulation and weapons to completely take us down and subject us to abject slavery to the elite. I think it won't be long before they find out they sorely misjudged humanity. They've taken things almost as far as they can go on a global scale. Hell is breaking loose in more and more countries all the time because of elite greed. They wanted global - when it caves, it's going to cave just that way - globally.
      Nazi Germany was the most crime free state in history.
      The people accepted it because they felt safe.
      They were willing to trade "safety" for freedom.
      And, they rationalized it by telling themselves, (and this is becoming the attitude in the U.S.), "if you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about".
      Surveillance cameras on street corners.
      Strip searches at airports.
      Monitoring internet communications and transactions.
      (Which, by the way, takes us to "The Cloud" which is an entire subject
      on it's own.).

      And, to add insult to injury, they mortgage companies gave loans to people
      who they knew couldn't afford them.
      Then, when the mortgage companies lost that money and went bankrupt,
      Uncle Sam steps in and takes the tax money from the same people who
      lost their homes and gives THAT to the mortgage companies.
      So, in essence, the mortgage companies get paid twice for the same properties, AND get the properties too! Which they then turn around and re-sell. Even at a de-valued price the mortgage companies are getting paid a third time for the same property while people are being put on the street!


      This is one of those times when I want to sit across the table from Obama and Congress and ask them, "Explain to me how this makes sense?"
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Heysal, I have never been a religious person or even spiritual. As a matter of fact, I have always prided myself as an atheist. But I am starting to change my point of view somewhat the more we are literally heading towards (or being subjected to) some kind of Armageddon.
    The wickedness, hatred and violence in the world today can only lead to one thing: destruction. People tell me, well, there's always been wars, there's always been violence etc.
    I have always been a keen observer of global affairs and I can honestly say that I can't remember things ever being this bad.

    The frightening thing is, it is not really our fault (somehow), it is almost like we are being pushed into the abyss.
    Am I just being paranoid? I don't know anymore. The evil mankind is capable of is truly terrifying. Maybe there is an Antichrist pulling the strings and turning us against one another.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Talk about rambling. Yikes. Sorry. Got started typing and couldn't stop.
    Exactly why I posted a thread instead of answering a PM. LOL

    Heysal's gonna lynch me for hijacking her thread. Sorry ma'm, just replying to Richard Van's post. This should really be in the "London's burning thread"
    Not at all. You aren't hijacking anything. Actually England and America aren't too far apart in their problems. America is armed and England isn't seems to be the main difference. But we all have leaders taking far too much control over us and causing so much strife that it's getting hard to live normally any more. It's not a scenario for healthy societies. I'm afraid that the upset is going to be felt in hundreds of countries before this is over.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Bravo - you aren't paranoid at all. The evil going on now is overwhelming and it's not restricted to a location or two - it's all over the place.

    I think that it's the extreme masses of population that are the true catalyst. We've always had greedy leaders, but our numbers are creating depersonalization - our societies are not set up for this kind of population and at a time that the greed of our leaders is forcing globalization, the populations are starting to become more tribal, as is their nature in the first place. Put together tribes and leaders who want everyone to melt in to one pot so they can have it ALL -- stuff isn't lookin' too good.

    Is there an intelligent entity behind it all? Maybe. Once you get beyond the restrictions of our perception of time, it might not take much "prophecy" to see events as they happen. Either way -- I really don't give a rip if it has been predicted accurately -- I care more about if there is a way for us to prevent it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    One of the problems is we are a house divided - we are not united but a loose conglomeration of small, special interest groups and sub-cultures who refuse to JOIN us. So instead they have managed to change us and who could blame them, being given carte blanche.

    “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, .... and every city, or house, divided against itself, shall not stand".
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Sooner or later, SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE has got to realize that in the end t will affect THEM! EVEN if the people in power felt some type of obligation(MAN what a laugh!), those people will be replaced by ones that don't care. In any event, subjugating those that must be depended upon would never work. It works somewhat in the corporate world ONLY because people get compensation. Still, I once let a "bosses" ignorance show through and he was fired! All he did was take credit for my work. In a world of subjugation, such an exposure could have meant his DEATH from starvation or freezing or poison or who knows what else. He is lucky he only lost money and respect.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Subjugation is where it's going, Steve. People are out of homes, 1/6 of a population being funded just to be able to feed themselves -- we're not talking about lifer homeless any more -we're talking about the whole middle class taking a dive. People can barely heat their homes through the winter and winters have hit record cold two years in a row. What will happen this year if it gets that cold. There are tent cities going up everywhere. People are hungry and even though others say that doesn't happen in the US, it sure does. There are elderly on SS that are starving to death all over this country. The people that haven't already lost everything may just lose it in the next wave of economic strain coming at us. The guy that predicted the 2008 crash said he expects a 50% of home and job loss -- starting very shortly. You take half of the homeowners homes - and half of everyone's jobs - what have we got left? 150 million people mad enough to kill anyone that even smells of politics. People are civilized only because their lifestyle allows it. If you take everything, they are not going to just sit down and be quiet while they silently starve or freeze to death. You put enough people on the street and they will start to band. They will have to for survival. We have so many financial qualifications to be legal - and most require an address. Plate your car and get a drivers license? Only with an address - and enough money. Work as a waitress? Only if you can afford the food handlers card - a bartender? If you can afford the alcohol safety card. Child care? If you can afford the CPR and other certificates and make it to training. A lot of jobs you just can't get without paying the price of the certifications (read: taxes) to get them. Right now if you are broke in this country, you don't have much hope of getting anything unless you can get false ID that you are here illegally or if you have kids. Welfare will take care of people with kids - at least enough that they can survive. If you aren't qualified for benefits (read: white, no dependents, natural citizen) you can go crawl up on the capital steps and people will step over you while you die. Or you can commit a crime that will get you a jail cell for a few months while you figure out something you can do about things...of course the jail record will keep you out of most jobs.

    It's all just a f***ing lark and our leaders talk about it on their tax-provided vacations featuring Dom and caviar. Seems like they'd be better off spending our taxes on a bus to the library where they can read about what was going on when we declared independence in the first place. They might get a clue.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    MAN, I wish I could discuss what I am thinking. What kills me is that COMPUTERS made it possible. Oh well, that has been predicted for about 100 years, maybe more. And maybe 80% of the time, it was due to someone ELSE using them, like metropolis or modern times or the net. Maybe 20% of the time it was sentient computers, like in terminator, or colosus. BTW nobody seems to REALLY know what metropolis was like. MANY copies were destroyed, and it was ripped apart. I saw maybe 3 variants. Apparently though a sentient computer, that I BELIEVE was supposed to be otherwise called attention to the subjugated that most of the elite didn't know about. And I HATE the word elite. It has a nice positive and respectful connotation

    The free dictionary says:

    a. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: "In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them" (Times Literary Supplement).
    b. The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.
    But TODAY, all too often, and as I use it here, it refers to a super arrogant and often stupid group that subjugates others through various means for their own desire.

    I have thought several times that maybe I should try to fit in with the amish or something. In many scenarios they may not be affected. And I imagine they are all legally OFF THE GRID!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    And I HATE the word elite. It has a nice positive and respectful connotation
    No it has a nice respectful denotation. The connotation has gone down the tubes over the last decade. That's what happens when you use your money and power to trash everyone else. Elite used to mean fashion and glamour. Now the connotation yields the meaning: tyrannical stupid narcissistic f***ing fascist piece of inhumanly morphed crap.

    That takes just too long to say, Steve. So I'll just stick with elite, since everyone knows what we mean when we say that and it's just so damned PC.

    MAN, I wish I could discuss what I am thinking.
    I do, too, Steve. I do too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Sal, I don't think we're ever going to see the days again when your neighbors cared about you.
      To illustrate your point ... we moved here 3 years ago. My neighbor to the south is an elderly couple I think in their 80's. The man can hardly walk. For the last three years I've taken care of all their snow, sidewalks and driveway, plus a path down the alley from their house to their garage.

      I've never asked for a dime, and have turned them down the few times they've offered to pay. So how am I rewarded?

      They babysit their son's dog regularly, and instead of having it go potty in their yard, they take it for a walk and let it go in my yard. Caught them a few times and asked them not to do that. They keep doing it.

      That's the thanks and respect I get for being neighborly.

      Originally Posted by Sunfyre7896 View Post

      All it's going to take is for things to keep heading where they're heading. Increasing debt + bad politics = Disaster. Things like hyperinflation and civil unrest could be a reality one day.
      Yup, that's what I was pointing at. Could be a number of things besides a continuation of current trends. Gas shortage, food shortage, a race incident ... probably dozens of things that could trigger it.

      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      One of the problems is we are a house divided - we are not united but a loose conglomeration of small, special interest groups and sub-cultures who refuse to JOIN us. So instead they have managed to change us and who could blame them, being given carte blanche.

      "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, .... and every city, or house, divided against itself, shall not stand".
      And it's that way intentionally. They want us divided. That makes us bicker with each other instead of holding them accountable. It keeps them in power.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        To illustrate your point ... we moved here 3 years ago. My neighbor to the south is an elderly couple I think in their 80's. The man can hardly walk. For the last three years I've taken care of all their snow, sidewalks and driveway, plus a path down the alley from their house to their garage.

        I've never asked for a dime, and have turned them down the few times they've offered to pay. So how am I rewarded?

        They babysit their son's dog regularly, and instead of having it go potty in their yard, they take it for a walk and let it go in my yard. Caught them a few times and asked them not to do that. They keep doing it.

        That's the thanks and respect I get for being neighborly.
        WOW, if I were doing it, I would probably just not bother. Could you imagine? They would have trouble doing practically ANYTHING in winter, and might be sued if someone slips. It is RARE that you can practically scream your complaints into a blowhorn and make it CLEAR without so much as even getting out of bed and whispering.

        And doing something as you describe, in several places in the US is ILLEGAL! They make gadgets that can EASILY pick up the excrement without getting your hands dirty, or even bending over. It is SUCH a minor thing. Shoveling snow is NOT so easy!

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        To illustrate your point ... we moved here 3 years ago. My neighbor to the south is an elderly couple I think in their 80's. The man can hardly walk. For the last three years I've taken care of all their snow, sidewalks and driveway, plus a path down the alley from their house to their garage.

        I've never asked for a dime, and have turned them down the few times they've offered to pay. So how am I rewarded?

        They babysit their son's dog regularly, and instead of having it go potty in their yard, they take it for a walk and let it go in my yard. Caught them a few times and asked them not to do that. They keep doing it.

        That's the thanks and respect I get for being neighborly.
        Hey Dennis!

        I give you respect for all you've done for you neighbors even if they won't!

        What you do is truly commendable and just imagine how life would be if our leaders followed in your footsteps! Truly a world far apart from the one we now life in. Perhaps, some day...

        Ahh, but alas! We know that's only a pipe dream in this present world.

        Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      No it has a nice respectful denotation. The connotation has gone down the tubes over the last decade. That's what happens when you use your money and power to trash everyone else. Elite used to mean fashion and glamour. Now the connotation yields the meaning: tyrannical stupid narcissistic f***ing fascist piece of inhumanly morphed crap.

      That takes just too long to say, Steve. So I'll just stick with elite, since everyone knows what we mean when we say that and it's just so damned PC.



      I do, too, Steve. I do too.

      That is EXACTLY what I mean! That word, like so many others, has been abused so much that it is virtually WORTHLESS! Words are NOT supposed to require explanation to thse that know them. Even some words used to DESCRIBE are now worthless and mut be explained.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    Hi Richard. Basically the same thing going on here, but many people have their heads in the sand.

    The banks reported record earnings and bonuses were huge. And after a bailout the majority of Americans were against.

    People should be outraged at the largest gap between the middle and upper class in the history of the US.

    When former bank employees hold high offices within the government, usually Secretary of Treasury, it is ripe for corruption.

    Campaign contributions are also made public, at least the ones that are reported, and it is disturbing to see where the majority of the money comes from..... the banking sector.

    With the Supreme Court passing the United Citizens case, corporations are now considered people and opened a floodgate of PACs, super PACs, and a new depth of corruption this country has never seen before.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Heysal,

    Thankyou. Yeah, I didn't mention it here. I only told my employer, father, uncle(who is one of her brothers), and one of my best friends. As far as I am concerned, she was basically gone years ago due to alzheimers, etc... She died from complications due to that.

    If my stupid webhost ever gets my server up, I plan to discuss alzheimers as well. I always knew it was a possibility. I KNEW she had problems, but I didn't quickly suspect that they were like this. It seemed to amplify the aspects I hated and, coincidently, THEY would have pointed to alzheimers if I saw them as different. My webhost seemed to indicate it would be INSTANT, THEN said 2 days, and now says it will be LONGER. ARRG!

    Lori,

    The secretary of the treasury has maybe always been corrupt, but the federal reserve certainly has. Technically though, they ARE bankers, so I guess you are technically right there. The IDEA that ONE jerk can stand in front of congress and declare he will basically DESTROY the market, and say it in almost as many words, is LUDICROUS, but I have seen the fed chairman do it even AS he was doing it. AND, being public, he doesn't have to lift a finger to have its effects felt world wide.

    Did you hear about this admin? They have sicked the SEC onto the S&P! They INSIST that the S&P divulge all that knew, why, and how. If insider trading was done by THEM, they say they plan to prosecute. Why did I say it in that way? We ALL know it WAS done by MANY people, and will generally NOT be prosecuted. Supposedly a person made a bet of over $800Million that it would happen. I think he stands to make about 15Billion on the bet. Many suspect they know who the person is. HE likely won't be prosecuted.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    Steve, so sorry to hear about your mom. It is difficult.

    I hope you are able to remember the good times and cherish the time that you had together.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      And I am using past tense because my mother died last week.
      Sorry to hear that, Steve. Losing a parent is difficult. I offer you my condolences on your loss.

      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      I often wonder at the depths to which the banks pull the purse strings as well as the governments puppet strings.
      Makes you wonder who's really in charge of the government sometimes, doesn't it?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        Sorry to hear that, Steve. Losing a parent is difficult. I offer you my condolences on your loss.



        Makes you wonder who's really in charge of the government sometimes, doesn't it?
        In the US, the government requires money. The banks even regulate moneys VALUE, and loan rates, while the government ACTS like they have a choice.

        So they kind of work TOGETHER to cause problems.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          In the US, the government requires money. The banks even regulate moneys VALUE, and loan rates, while the government ACTS like they have a choice.

          So they kind of work TOGETHER to cause problems.

          Steve
          I'm thinking there are a relatively few individuals who wield an awful lot of control over what happens in both banking and in the government. You can probably guess some of the names.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            I'm thinking there are a relatively few individuals who wield an awful lot of control over what happens in both banking and in the government. You can probably guess some of the names.
            As far as SINGLE people, maybe 4 or 5(probably the fed chairman, president, secretary of state, and vice president in like that order). If you add others that MIGHT affect it, maybe another 4(speaker of the house, president of the senate, leaders of the minority parties). A new group just added, about 12 If you add the small groups maybe another 20(various involved commities). If you add the larger groups, it may be another 500(congress).And THOSE are just US players. If you count the major countries and organizations that are OUTSIDE of the us, there might be another dozen people. There are only so many organizations that have that kind of power and few have that many that can wield that kind of power with a foreign nation, such as the US.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW as I am sure you can guess, I am not good at such things EITHER! I have to handle all the details because I am the only one in the state she was in. I DO appreciate the good wishes though

    Lori,

    You're right. I keep forgetting about all the consumers. and the predatory lenders, WOW! I had calls from such people, but had trouble believing it, and knew I might forget a detail. Things that were taken for GRANTED prior to the 70s are no longer true! I THOUGHT that died out in the eighties. NOW, it is BACK!!!! And I am ALL for fixing the problems! Let's bring back the OLD laws, and ENFORCE THEM! FOR EVERYONE!

    As for the note? I KNOW it sounds silly, but many are saying that the courts AREN'T accepting the absence of a note!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    So true, Steve.

    The SEC is worthless unless you want to count in their ability to watch porn on the companies' time and computers.

    To think there is only one scapegoat for this disaster is absurd.

    The government still has its hair standing up since the S&P downgraded the US. And now, someone has to pay.

    How many people have been prosecuted for the housing crisis? None. The biggest scandal since the S&L crisis since the 1980s where thousands went to jail.

    Wall Street paid the rating agencies to rate ****ty loans as no to low risk.

    During congressional hearings, the banks CEOs testified about the crisis and were grilled about their role in rating the investments as no to low risk, yet after 30 days they were downgraded to risky loans.

    Who invested in these securities? Administrators of 401K funds, counties, teachers, firefighters, unions, many workers' retirement funds were heavily vested in these ****ty loans. Their life savings, retirement accounts completely wiped out.

    To take it another step, the banks knew that the loans would fail so they placed bets against them (all the while telling their clients they were great investments).

    Another step the banks took was to insure the loans against loss. Afterall, the banks knew the loans would fail.

    That's a win, win, win for the banks.

    And a huge loss not only for homeowners, but for this country as a whole as that is when the house of cards started to tumble.

    What does that do to neighborhoods? Ask the person who bought a home a decade ago and now owes more than the house is worth.

    Ask the person who lives in a family home that has been in a family for many years but crime has doubled in their neighborhood because of the foreclosures.

    I'll stop now. Sorry to bore you all. When I get started on this subject, it's hard for me to stop.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Dennis - Find the names of those who own World Bank, and you find the people that control everything on this planet to one extent or the other. Global World Domination is a game that the most sociopathic and narcissistic of leaders have always loved to play.

    Unfortunately those are the two personality aspects it takes to be able to gain that much power and wealth. You don't get there by being the moral nice guys. It takes a will to kill masses of humans to be able to achieve that level of control.

    Hey Thom -- the 20th of August is American Lemonade Day. There will be lemonade stands all over America in protest of the fact that our officials are now fining kids for putting up stands and shutting them down. Some way to teach kids business skills eh? The only thing they are learning is that if you don't work, you don't get messed with.

    Anyhow - people - if you have kids, set up a stand. If you don't, put a couple of bucks in your pocket and buy some lemonade from a neighbor kid. We really can't let this kind of crap continue or we're all going to be out on the streets, with no real jobs out there and a crack down on entrepreneurship, every one of us will tank.
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    • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Dennis - Find the names of those who own World Bank, and you find the people that control everything on this planet to one extent or the other. Global World Domination is a game that the most sociopathic and narcissistic of leaders have always loved to play.

      Unfortunately those are the two personality aspects it takes to be able to gain that much power and wealth. You don't get there by being the moral nice guys. It takes a will to kill masses of humans to be able to achieve that level of control.

      .
      I couldn't agree more Sal. I had my eyes opened about 2.5 years ago when I took the bait and tried to get a home loan modification. It took 16 months of pure he@@ but I finally got it, unlike so many others. But during that time my head came out of the sand and I became aware of the power of Wall Street, and the fact that this is NOT a democracy. I cannot believe I was snookered for so long.

      I almost thank the banks for not giving me my mod at first. If they had, I might still have my head in the sand. As it is, I am fully awakened, as are so many of us. My money is out of the big banks (what little is left) and I will continue to fight and advocate for the shrinking American Middle Class!
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

        I couldn't agree more Sal. I had my eyes opened about 2.5 years ago when I took the bait and tried to get a home loan modification. It took 16 months of pure he@@ but I finally got it, unlike so many others. But during that time my head came out of the sand and I became aware of the power of Wall Street, and the fact that this is NOT a democracy. I cannot believe I was snookered for so long.

        I almost thank the banks for not giving me my mod at first. If they had, I might still have my head in the sand. As it is, I am fully awakened, as are so many of us. My money is out of the big banks (what little is left) and I will continue to fight and advocate for the shrinking American Middle Class!
        Rude awakening, too, isn't it? Want more? Just checkout the connections our Treasury people have to Goldman Sacs - even our Pres has connections to Goldman. It's all so blatant that I really think we could easily call our country the United States of Golman Sacs.

        People scream about the poor being lazy, entitlement attitudes, what have you -- but these institutions could not have gained power without a very large and needy poor class. Our welfare system didn't line itself with catch 22s for those wanting off for nothing. Without a massive and destructive welfare system, they could not have achieved the control they have. If people would have helped others off of welfare when it was still a socially shameful situation to be on it, much of the mess would have been avoided. But we loved having people underneath us to spit at. Made us feel better - during the days that we were safe from being the same, anyhow.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Okay Kurt - Nevada has the highest official unemployment rate - I can't argue with your stats. However - Reno and Carson aren't that bad. You get out into the little bergs (which is most of Nevada, as you well know) and I'd say they are the ones making the stat count, not Reno. Reno's doin' fine.

    Also -- if you want to look at all the people out in some of the little towns out where I am -- there's a LOT of people not showing up on those stats, so the real situation is even worse than those figures show. I'm finding a lot of people out here haven't been employed for several years and have fallen off the stat chart. There's a lot that are making their money under the table, too - so as far as real situations - who knows?

    Silver Springs is turning into a ghost town (that's not going to bother me. I hate a crowd and Carson is only a nice little drive. Hawthorne is hurting, Tonopah is a mess - some of the Northern little towns like Elko and Ely are feeling the squeeze real hard.

    Seriously - it's an uneven game out here. A few places doing well and a lot are being boarded up so fast it would make your head spin. Out here in Silver Springs the average education level is very low, too. I've worked a few contracts that anyone should have been able to work and the people weren't able to find anyone who could do them. At least the competition is basically non-existent when something is open. If I were starving I'd worry about it. So far, I'm having to do some work I'm not all that crazy about, writing more than I feel like but I'm not going hungry any time soon either. Maybe it's just me but my perception of the place isn't that bad. But then you have to remember.......I just escaped Mexifornia.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    LOL Mexiforniapino.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Sal & Kurt,

      Regarding official unemployment figures, do you really trust them?

      There was an interesting article recently where the major supermarkets in the UK estimated that, based on their sales, it seemed that the population of the UK was 10 million more than the government said it was.

      Now, who do you believe? The government (who admitted they had 'lost' 180,000 illegal immigrants, then finally admitted it could be 500,000, then maybe it could be 750,000 then admitted they really had no idea) or supermarkets who have very sophisticated programmes in place to measure the marketplace.

      Hell, maybe they're both lying!!!


      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

        Sal & Kurt,

        Regarding official unemployment figures, do you really trust them?

        Martin
        Oh hell no. We've got 44 mil on food stamps. That's 1/6th of our population. I know some people that work get small amounts - but those are mostly given to people who are out of work.

        It's not all smoke and mirrors though. It's just a hard situation to actually put into solid statistics. People are fluctuating in and out of work all the time and once someone drops out of the system, how do you collect a stat on them? When the census was taken, every person in every home was counted - we've got 13 mil (and more every day) illegals running around here. They get counted as being here, and if they are holding a job, that person gets counted as employed - yet if they lose the job they aren't counted in unemployment figures (anyone starting to understand there why they are desirable to companies?).

        That's why unemployment figures are only based here on how many people are drawing unemployment. It's really the only tally they have the means to keep. People know that - the gov never even tries to hide that. They will tell you flat out that is where the figures come from. Media plays the stats up or down depending on what they have going on they want to sensationalize, but nobody in the states has any misconstrued ideas about the solidity of those figures including the people that produce them.
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        Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    About 50% of the population pays NO taxes, and the unemployment statistics are usually WAY off! The higher they go, the more likely they are to have a big gap that is WIDENING! That has been known for a LONG time! They are based on people applying for unemployment. There WAS a way to QUICKLY fix a LOT of unemployment OVERNIGHT, but the government made it EXCEEDING clear, through executive order only last week, that they WILL not do that! OH, and costs have SKYROCKETED. IWICSM!

    As to the unemployment figures? TRADITIONALLY, you should probably add maybe .25% of the last unemployment figures to the current ones every six months or so. But NOW, that they keep extending benefits, who knows. ALSO, neither case includes those that are UNDERemployed, decided to just not look anymore, or don't qualify for unemployment.

    As for the census? Some WON'T participate! Some paperwork gets lost! Some won't be approached. Some CAN'T, for whatever reason. And SOME will, by accident or on purpose, be counted multiple times. I, for example, am not counted! So WHO KNOWS what the real numbers are? Even their METRICS may be wrong!

    There IS a quick way to make that fair and accurate, at a LOWER cost and LESS effort but, AGAIN, they REFUSE to!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    Sure was a rude awakening. The idea of the American Dream that I grew up with has been shattered. I fought and fought till there were times I couldn't breathe during the years I was pushing to get my modification. There are millions of others who were not and will not be successful.

    I have a friend who is the CEO of a local food bank and she talks about so many new families coming in with the deer in the headlights look - they never expected they would need help. They exhausted everything they had and are sinking anyway. This culture of haves and have-nots has gotten so very out of hand that we can't go back even if we could. You are right that there are people who just think welfare is their given way of life, but there is a new group of people on "welfare" who are still ashamed to the core.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

      This culture of haves and have-nots has gotten so very out of hand that we can't go back even if we could. You are right that there are people who just think welfare is their given way of life, but there is a new group of people on "welfare" who are still ashamed to the core.
      It's not just shame anymore. There's genuine fear. Have you ever seen an application for a HUD rental? They even ask people to describe their recreational activities. WTF? At least people are getting red flags when they see that type of thing on a form now. The woman I was drinking coffee with while she was filling out papers stopped at that point and ripped them up. It just scared her. She was more willing to go through the hardship of being without than to get roped into something that intrusive.

      And now it's the kids -- they give you welfare, they assume they own the kids. If they want to drug your child, you say okay or you lose your kid. They don't threaten your welfare - they take your KID. Of course, once your kid is gone, you no longer qualify for the welfare either ...........so in effect - if you accept funding even in the most dire emergency, you risk watching them do whatever they want to your family and losing both your kids and your help if they want to do something that can destroy the kid. Same with medical help. If you are on welfare and they want to make you take drugs that you absolutely do not want to take - and you refuse - you lose your welfare and usually your kids (they call you unfit).

      In other words, welfare is just slavery in disguise, and they are making it as hard not to sign over your life as possible now. They also make it as hard as they can to get off of with your mind, body, and family intact. They know damned well that if their entire inventory of slaves were to just stand up right now and say NO MORE and stop accepting welfare it would be worse for them than for us.

      People have to stop thinking of welfare as a gift or a freebie. It's got a hidden price tag that is absolutely unbelievable. And the joke is - that they have corrupted society so badly that people actually think that welfare is a nice sweet freebie and people hooked into the system are lazy and have it made. People who have become "morally" attached to money are just plain too stupid for their own good.
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    This has me to thinking about the definition of "welfare." Is going on unemployment and maybe accepting food stamps "welfare?" It is in a way, but it is different from the population that is born into welfare and keeps having more babies to stay there. I have always worried about them, but this new economy where so many people are on unemployment or close to it is blurring the lines for me.

    What happens when a population has no resources to feed their children? What happens when a population of people who are able to work can't? What happens when more and more of us are living from paycheck to paycheck without room to breathe? How can people who are working two jobs have the energy to fight for the middle class? This is most definitely a trend towards keeping people so damned tired and afraid that they won't speak up. And the plutocracy has the power and the money to wait us out even if there is a minor rebellion.

    I am a newbie still at IM (still don't have my site on my signature and am just working on a WSO for when I'm ready) but a primary reason for this effort is to become free. Yes I will need to work at getting a reputation, proving myself as a writer, getting sales, etc., but if I fail it will be because of me and not because I have been downsized. Meanwhile I work my full time job and try to keep my energy up.

    I am not a bible-reading person, but someone quoted to me something from the bible yesterday - something about people needing to let go of possessions. My take is that it is the ATTACHMENT to possessions and money that is fueling the greed and the narcissism of the powerful elite in our world. It's been going on for decades, but I didn't know it. The catch is if you don't have enough money to feed your family, that is all you focus on. When they take our shelter and our food they enslave us with fear and intimidation. That is the crux of this housing crisis, and that is what keeps main street from rising up and crushing the elite.

    Okay so that got strong. Maybe I need to go take a walk! LOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

    Anyone else getting homesick for the good old days when everyone knew their neighbors and really gave a squat about each other? When other people were more willing to give someone a hand up that needed one than to completely scour their lives for any picky uny thing they can take offense to or not make money from? When the government protected workers a little bit from being chewed to pieces by corporate employers who see employees as nothing but "resources" to make a buck from? I've really become burned out on psychotic America. I am wondering how long our society has before it completely disintegrates and when the worst is over if people will ever be good, moral neighbors again with caring politicians who worry more about the country and it's people than what they can personally milk from them.
    I'm with you 100% on this one Sal.

    Growing up, if I, or any of the other kids in the neighbor hood, did something wrong my parents would know about before I got home.
    "As whoopin'" or grounded, depending on the severity of the "crime".
    Same with school. I got my fair share of swats and detentions and my parents were angry at me, not ready to sue the school.

    I never once saw a parent get in a coaches face in 7 years of little league.
    Our doors were rarely locked.
    In the summer time I would leave the house early in the morning and not get home until dark.
    We would ride our bikes for miles. Or walk the RR tracks behind my house.

    If I got hurt playing with a toy, it never crossed my parents mind that it
    was the manufacturers fault.

    I read an article several years ago about a guy who picked up his running
    lawn mower to trim his hedges and lost some fingers.
    He sued and won.
    There are so many times when I hear of something stupid like and thinks
    I'd love to sit down with the judge who made the ruling and say, "Ok,
    explain this to me. Why is the lawn mower company responsible for this
    guys stupidity?"

    I like the "battle cry" of the 60's. "Tune in, Turn on, Drop out".
    I've dropped out as far as my finances allow at this point.
    I don't watch the news, read the newspaper, or follow politics.
    I vote for one reason. I vote against anyone who is in office, or
    has ever been in office.

    So, that's my rant.

    I blame Sal:rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      I'm with you 100% on this one Sal.

      Growing up, if I, or any of the other kids in the neighbor hood, did something wrong my parents would know about before I got home.
      "As whoopin'" or grounded, depending on the severity of the "crime".
      Same with school. I got my fair share of swats and detentions and my parents were angry at me, not ready to sue the school.

      I never once saw a parent get in a coaches face in 7 years of little league.
      Our doors were rarely locked.
      In the summer time I would leave the house early in the morning and not get home until dark.
      We would ride our bikes for miles. Or walk the RR tracks behind my house.

      If I got hurt playing with a toy, it never crossed my parents mind that it
      was the manufacturers fault.
      I can still remember my mother telling my school teachers, swimming instructors, scout master, etc. that if I acted up they had her permission to beat me. Not slap me or punish me, but beat me. And if one did, I got another beating when I got home because it was my fault.
      Two things I was taught where, you are responsible for your actions, and be honest. I was also taught manners and to respect your elders.
      My summers where the same as yours, out early and in or at least on the property at dark.
      If I got hurt playing with a toy I was told to be more careful, it was my fault not the toys.
      I've tried suing someone only once. When I found out they had less then me I dropped it. It was over an accident I was in where a car made a turn in front of me when I was on my motorcycle (He didn't see me:rolleyes There was $500 of damage to my bike and I almost had my leg ripped off, thank God for strong bones. I was suing for my bike repair and hospital bill only.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I can still remember my mother telling my school teachers, swimming instructors, scout master, etc. that if I acted up they had her permission to beat me. Not slap me or punish me, but beat me. And if one did, I got another beating when I got home because it was my fault.
        Two things I was taught where, you are responsible for your actions, and be honest. I was also taught manners and to respect your elders.
        My summers where the same as yours, out early and in or at least on the property at dark.
        If I got hurt playing with a toy I was told to be more careful, it was my fault not the toys.
        I've tried suing someone only once. When I found out they had less then me I dropped it. It was over an accident I was in where a car made a turn in front of me when I was on my motorcycle (He didn't see me:rolleyes There was $500 of damage to my bike and I almost had my leg ripped off, thank God for strong bones. I was suing for my bike repair and hospital bill only.
        He made a left turn in front of you. Was he in the lane outside of yours? Because if he were in the same lane as you, in the US, the courts would have found YOU guilty. The car probably wasn't less than 2' wide, and US law states that a sole motorcycle driver should drive in the center of the lane. Just saying. Of course, if he were in a lane to the outside of yours US law says you shouldn't change lanes in an intersecton, and that would make HIM at fault. I'm glad you survived intact but, at least in the US, you should have gotten the insurance to pay. THEY should cover the bike and hospital, and get the money from HIM. Lawyers are only good if you have bad insurance, or want to BILK them.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    OMG I totally agree. I was hit by a car when I was in my twenties. Yes, the car was going a little fast. But I was jaywalking and didn't look both ways. Although it put me in the hospital for 90 days, I never once thought of suing the driver. He felt horrible, and apologized, and I felt that was good enough for me. These days people are suing at the drop of a hat. It is befuddling.

    Even so, I can't totally drop out. I do need to be self-sufficient and not count on anyone, but I have kids and just think that if I close my eyes to all of this, now that they are finally opened, what kind of life am I leaving for them?

    I vote. Sometimes I vote for someone. Lots of times I vote against. And Judges? Who do they think they are putting their names on the ballot asking me to vote for them when I know absolutely nothing about them and they have never reached out? I NEVER vote for them. NEVER. Yet they are the ones letting these frivolous lawsuits get by.

    OMG I am frustrated again. thanks alot!
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, just try explaining to some of the generationally poor that upbringing, and the constant handouts amount to slavery, and KEEP them down, and why. They will call you a conspiracy nut, and all that! OK, maybe it ISN'T a "conspiracy", but they KNOW about the problem, take the lazy way to "fix" it, and EXPLOIT it.

    In short, it might as WELL be a conspiracy. It is like seeing money on a table next to a woman's purse, and taking it. THEN, you notice she ALWAYS leaves money next to her purse, and you follow her around picking it up. You then create a need for her to put her purse down. Does it REALLY matter that it MIGHT be someone else's?

    Hey, if something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, tastes like a duck, and has the nutritional profile of a duck, do you REALLY think ANYONE will care if it is really a GHIK? NOPE! HECK, maybe there will be GHIK farms!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    I AM becoming a conspiracy theorist I guess. But I don't think it is a theory. I think this has been a strategic manipulation of our democracy (if you can still call it that) by the wealthy and powerful for decades. Then they created the nineties and first part of this century where many felt the dream was in their reach and then the bottom dropped out so there goes a whole additional portion of the population who have lost their savings, their dreams, and their hopes. Theory no. Strategic. Yes.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, SOME of the rich get richer. You know, some time ago I heard that some RICH WERE buying cheaper homes, for example! But do the poor care that a person that WOULD have bought a $5million home is now looking for a $1million home? NOPE! And some have abandoned some dreams they had. And DON'T forget, the rich are NOT perfect. One famous real estate broker had a dream of owning his own jet! He BOUGHT it, and was happy. He got a bill for $20,000. It thought it included the jet, but it didn't! It was all FUEL! He then SOLD the aircraft! So yeah folks, some of the rich ARE poorer.

    And some of the poorer have gotten richer for NOTHING! You know, I had a friend once that had a mother that was pushing her down HARD! You know how SHE got a computer? A donation, and she paid for DIALUP access! It was like 3 generations behind, but it WORKED! One state, I think it is michigan, determined that the poor kids were embarrassed to ask for low cost or no cost meals, so you know what they did? They provided ALL meals and even a snack for them, at NO charge! OK, HOW did that help the embarassment? ****ALL**** kids get them. Also, schools in several states now give out FREE laptops! These are PUBLIC schools!

    One thing no thinking person can dispute, the middle class IS getting hit. It IS shrinking. EVEN as some of the rich join it's ranks.

    And to those that ask about the poor getting richer? Providing no service, as they encroach on the middle class, the middle class and even rich will drop. With the increased money supply, and decreased productivity, inflation will increase. $100K dollars won't mean so much if taxes are high, and it costs $11 for milk, and $11 for bread, and a mcdonalds meal may cost $50, and homes cost say $3 million. $100K is only good enough to pay maybe $300K for a home today. Of course, in the 70s, a home cost over 4 times its selling price, or over TWICE what it costs now!!!!! And inflation affects the selling price as much as the interest rate. So the home could cost 10 times as much, and the interest could more than quadruple that. In the 70s, many got interest only loans, but after like 5 years or so they had the balloon payment. Apparently loans like that are what created 2008! So if homes cost $3 million, you would probably have to rent at about $5000/month. That is $60K a year. How much of the $40K left over would go to taxes? You see how bad things COULD get? They were WORSE in Germany before WWII! They were about as bad in the US with the continental dollar. It was about as bad in the 70s, with regard to inflation, though the US THEN had the ability to revert back to a successful model. Still, the next decline could be WORSE!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    You are not a conspiracy theorist. "Conspiracy theory" is a tag that was created by the power classes and used to slip program people so they would automatically start harassing people that were catching on to organized efforts. I call the slipped programmed people "tinfoil hat screamers" because every time someone suggests some really wealthy people with a lot of power might have a plan, they open their mouths and start screaming about tinfoil. It's like watching that movie that people's bodies get invaded and they automatically let out a scream when they see real people. There's not thought behind it = it's an automatic and completely programmed response.

    People were calling me a tinfoil hat nut case thirty years ago when I told them the FED was World Bank. I got completely harassed for saying so. The thinfoil hat screamers would actually point at me and start heckling if they saw me someplace. Well, here it is 30 years later.....and the FED is still World Bank, but enough people were finally able to normalize and everyone knows what the FED is now. Seems like a few decades after the fact people find out that "conspiracy theories" aren't just nutcase illusions. Don't ever let a tinfoil hat screamer intimidate you out of looking at all of the evidence of something. That's how the programming works - some are programmed to scream and the rest get intimidated out of thinking about it so nobody thinks they're nuts. FYI - I was called a nut in this forum by many when I said the economy was going to hit the skids in 2008. Don't hear anyone calling me nuts now when I say it's getting ready to tank again.

    Want to hear another prediction? Flu pandemic. Why do I say that? Because intervenous Vitamin C has just been ruled illegal. It is about the only thing that can stop a flu super virus once you get sick enough. Intervenous B12 us also no longer legal. We aren't talking Joe on the street not being able to shoot himself up. We are talking doctors no longer allowed to administer necessary treatments because they are not pharmaceutically manufactured drugs.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      You are not a conspiracy theorist. "Conspiracy theory" is a tag that was created by the power classes and used to slip program people so they would automatically start harassing people that were catching on to organized efforts.

      Want to hear another prediction? Flu pandemic. Why do I say that? Because intervenous Vitamin C has just been ruled illegal. It is about the only thing that can stop a flu super virus once you get sick enough. Intervenous B12 us also no longer legal. We aren't talking Joe on the street not being able to shoot himself up. We are talking doctors no longer allowed to administer necessary treatments because they are not pharmaceutically manufactured drugs.
      Well, What I meant in MY post is that EVEN if the people aren't working together towards the same end,and thus TECHNICALLY not a conspiracy, their means WILL result in the same end.

      You know what it is like? It is like my saying that a bunch of guys in britain that didn't like a guy decided to burn down the city, and are on their way, and nobody listened. They ridiculed, etc... WHO cares about the reason? Who cares HOW? The fact is it is HAPPENING!

      Like when heysal says the world bank is the fed. Whether or not they are the same, they ARE working together. DUH! Didn't everyone know that? The G7 or whatever created and runs the world bank and IMF and one of the members is "the fed". They get power from one another, so they can't stray much from the agreed plan.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    lcombs,

    You make a lot of sense, though I would leave out the other n word. For some reason, no matter how much evidence you give, people refuse to see similarities after seeing that word. They forget that the whole movement was FAR more sedate before a certain book, and nobody REALLY disliked THAT, they hated the PRECISE way it was handled, and parts of it. If ONE part of it were removed, the world may have let them continue to today. The populace might have still accepted everything else. there would have been no murder trials, etc... It STILL would have been bad.

    Yeah, I am against "THE CLOUD". I have been saying all along that it merely means the NETWORK, and that is TRUE, but various companies are taking it to mean centralized computing. OH, it DOES use the network, but it also moves your disks and CPU to THERE. That means SOMEONE somewhere. It may be in another country, and you probably don't know them and may not speak their language, has MORE control over your stuff than YOU do.

    They TRIED to tie everyone into it earlier, but I guess people like me were too vocal. They didn't take the last step. But they have gotten rid of SO many things people, like me, felt were sacrosanct, that I don't doubt that it may YET happen.

    Imagine a world with for all intents and purposes, there are NO computers! ALL "computers" sold are merely hulls with everything ripped out. LOW power CPUs, that may have many instructions pulled out, NO disk drives, NO available software, etc.... Printers that can't REALLY print, any offline storage looks like giberish, etc....

    WHY? So ALL computing has to be done remotely! They HAVE already tested all needed parts. A few tweaks here and there, and it can happen. The printers? Like "WINprinters". An idea I called MORONIC the first I heard of it, and spoke against it for compatibility reasons, etc... They CLAIMED they did it to save a little money. Anyway, they can't print. OH, it may LOOK like it, but they can't. The computer has to tell them how to print even a letter. For storage, encryption. Similar concepts are being used TODAY in some corporations! You can make a backup. It LOOKS normal. You can even READ it! But try going to ANOTHER computer offsite and reading it! As for CPUs. I know there have been DOZENS I have heard of, but I KNOW the transmeta worked like that. But HECK, have you noticed that they no longer care about standards? Look at non traditional computers! Tablets, phones, etc... They may have a different OS and even a different processor. I mean even the INSTRUCTION language is different.

    They EVEN removed schematics and real documentation in almost all cases because "nobody wants it". GEE, I am the ONLY person that wants it, and they renamed me nobody? I mean people DO want it. SOME of them may not know what it is. Some may not really care. And SURE some may never care to know about it, but I DO!

    Oh well, just a thought. Such a device could EASILY be disabled by someone ELSE! When I first heard of netbooks, they were little more than what I described above. And THINK about the NAME! "NET"book! WHY did it get THAT name! Why not mini laptop, or sublaptop, etc...

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Just to touch on "The Cloud" thing....

      About a year ago one of doctors computerized their entire system.
      Instead of the nurse or dr. carrying a clipboard or file folder they carried laptops.
      I changed drs. and within a couple of months they did the same thing.

      3 weeks ago I went to see my therapist, (which may explain many of posts ;-) ),
      and she told they had been mandated to computerize everything. And, although she didn't know it), as she summarized what they were doing it became clear all my medical records were going to The Cloud.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

        Just to touch on "The Cloud" thing....

        About a year ago one of doctors computerized their entire system.
        Instead of the nurse or dr. carrying a clipboard or file folder they carried laptops.
        I changed drs. and within a couple of months they did the same thing.

        3 weeks ago I went to see my therapist, (which may explain many of posts ;-) ),
        and she told they had been mandated to computerize everything. And, although she didn't know it), as she summarized what they were doing it became clear all my medical records were going to The Cloud.
        -

        I don't understand what the cloud is. After seeing this, I will learn about it though.

        I do know that a 'background check" for a job used to mean they would check to make sure that you didn't have a hidden police record and would ask previous employers a few questions.

        Now a "background check" includes medical records, credit reports, and even just social habits and preferences. They have so much information that they even profile you far enough to know what political party you are. They will turn you down now for reasons that it was illegal for them to even know not too long ago. They might not be able to discriminate against you for your religion or sex -- but they can neglect to hire you if they think you're going to cost their medical insurance money or if you aren't likely to vote for political candidates they want in office. If you aren't a drone right now - chances are you either work for yourself or you are completely unemployed.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          -

          I don't understand what the cloud is. After seeing this, I will learn about it though.

          I do know that a 'background check" for a job used to mean they would check to make sure that you didn't have a hidden police record and would ask previous employers a few questions.

          Now a "background check" includes medical records, credit reports, and even just social habits and preferences. They have so much information that they even profile you far enough to know what political party you are. They will turn you down now for reasons that it was illegal for them to even know not too long ago. They might not be able to discriminate against you for your religion or sex -- but they can neglect to hire you if they think you're going to cost their medical insurance money or if you aren't likely to vote for political candidates they want in office. If you aren't a drone right now - chances are you either work for yourself or you are completely unemployed.
          I explained it here earlier. It matches what lcombs spoke about here. They were all working remotely on a central system. Here, eventually, that could be the fda itself.

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      ThomM

      Yeah, there were times when my teachers actually were wrong for blaming, and punishing me for something I didn't do. I had 2 in elementary school who, for some reason just plain didn't like me.
      When I tried to defend myself my old man would just say, "Well, you musta done somethin' ".
      I'd get so pis*ed off at him for not believing me.
      But, like you said, it taught me to be honest and that I am responsible for my own actions.
      As long as my conscience was clean I could handle it.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

        ThomM

        Yeah, there were times when my teachers actually were wrong for blaming, and punishing me for something I didn't do. I had 2 in elementary school who, for some reason just plain didn't like me.
        When I tried to defend myself my old man would just say, "Well, you musta done somethin' ".
        I'd get so pis*ed off at him for not believing me.
        But, like you said, it taught me to be honest and that I am responsible for my own actions.
        As long as my conscience was clean I could handle it.
        Yeah, I had the SAME experience! MAN, DUMB! It is surprising I turned out as well IN SPITE of it, not because of it.

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
        Steve,

        Just read they are going to shut electrical plants down soon.

        That really ticks me off. We have like 500 years of coal, it's dirt cheap.

        On top of a shaky economy we're gonna add more energy inflation, intentionally.

        I was too young to remember the 70's, did people seem as stressed and p.o.'d back then as people seem to be now?

        Dave
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

          Steve,

          Just read they are going to shut electrical plants down soon.

          That really ticks me off. We have like 500 years of coal, it's dirt cheap.

          On top of a shaky economy we're gonna add more energy inflation, intentionally.

          I was too young to remember the 70's, did people seem as stressed and p.o.'d back then as people seem to be now?

          Dave
          I was pretty young too. but they tried to ration gas based on plate number, and the admin was claiming he wanted people to conserve energy, etc. we had stagflation. In a way, that is REALLY what we will have next time. SNL had a skit on it!!!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    Good morning all. And about background checks - the employer does have discretion about what is checked. I work for a non-profit and we do background checks for criminal records only for most people. But if they were to try to get a job in our financial department, they would also get a credit check.

    It is getting harder and harder in the world for people, and I hurt for my kids. One is still in school, and I worry about what the world will be like for him when he starts a family (hopefully that doesn't come soon). I fear I have come to grips with not being able to be anonymous anymore, and I know that the work I do in IM is opening up a new world of being "out there."

    I am a baby boomer, and I know that if I tried to get another job I would not be hired. Not because I wouldn't be qualified, but because of my age. Of course I always thought I'd be retired by now.....

    Remember when you thought your parents were "old?" They acted old. They looked old. They never seemed to have a new thought. I'm older than my parents were whey I thought they were "old," and besides a few physical pains in the you know what (not literally yet), I don't feel old except when i think of my chances out there in the world. That is why I am so intrigued and focused on getting IM working for me. My age doesn't matter. My ability to write and to market is going to make this work or not.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      ThomM

      Yeah, there were times when my teachers actually were wrong for blaming, and punishing me for something I didn't do. I had 2 in elementary school who, for some reason just plain didn't like me.
      When I tried to defend myself my old man would just say, "Well, you musta done somethin' ".
      I'd get so pis*ed off at him for not believing me.
      But, like you said, it taught me to be honest and that I am responsible for my own actions.
      As long as my conscience was clean I could handle it.
      When I was accused of something I did, I just admitted it and took my punishment. If I was accused of something I didn't do I'd fight it tooth and nail and not except any punishment. My parents knew that and if I said I didn't do what I was accused of would defend me to the end.

      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      He made a left turn in front of you. Was he in the lane outside of yours? Because if he were in the same lane as you, in the US, the courts would have found YOU guilty. The car probably wasn't less than 2' wide, and US law states that a sole motorcycle driver should drive in the center of the lane. Just saying. Of course, if he were in a lane to the outside of yours US law says you shouldn't change lanes in an intersecton, and that would make HIM at fault. I'm glad you survived intact but, at least in the US, you should have gotten the insurance to pay. THEY should cover the bike and hospital, and get the money from HIM. Lawyers are only good if you have bad insurance, or want to BILK them.

      Steve
      Steve it was at an intersection and he was making a left hand turn onto another street. It was his fault all the way. He was also the one that received the tickets for the turn and no license. It also turned out that he didn't have car ins. at the time of the accident. Like I said I only wanted him to pay the hospital and bike costs which totaled around $1,000.
      Then I found out his wife had just divorced him and took everything he had except for his car. He had that and a min. wage job, living in a run down motel type apt. The poor guy had less then I did so I couldn't bring myself to follow through with the lawsuit.
      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Steve it was at an intersection and he was making a left hand turn onto another street. It was his fault all the way. He was also the one that received the tickets for the turn and no license. It also turned out that he didn't have car ins. at the time of the accident. Like I said I only wanted him to pay the hospital and bike costs which totaled around $1,000.
        Then I found out his wife had just divorced him and took everything he had except for his car. He had that and a min. wage job, living in a run down motel type apt. The poor guy had less then I did so I couldn't bring myself to follow through with the lawsuit.
        WOW, he's lucky he didn't hit me. He would probably have been sued big time, lost his car, and possibly would have been thrown in jail. For once, I am happy about his wife. he doesn't seem to care. For a car driver that is usually just a MAJOR problem. For a bike driver? I have no word harsh enough though, as the victim here, you obviously already imagined how bad THIS could have been, and you were LUCKY!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          WOW, he's lucky he didn't hit me. He would probably have been sued big time, lost his car, and possibly would have been thrown in jail. For once, I am happy about his wife. he doesn't seem to care. For a car driver that is usually just a MAJOR problem. For a bike driver? I have no word harsh enough though, as the victim here, you obviously already imagined how bad THIS could have been, and you were LUCKY!

          Steve
          I Don't beat someone when they're down, and he was down.
          Here's how lucky I really was.
          My leg was wedged between the rear corner panel and rear bumper of a 69 charger(not sure about the year and make anymore, it happened in 1977).
          It was then ripped out and I ended up on the pavement. Other then some road rash, my right leg had a big gash from just below my knee to just above my ankle which needed internal and external stitches to close. I also had a hairline fracture of the Tibia which ran the length of the bone.
          When I returned to NY I ran into an ambulance driver I knew who had just came from a bike and car accident. The way he described the accident, it was exactly like mine. The major difference was the bike rider's leg was in three pieces. It was attached to him to just below the knee, then the next section stayed wedged between the cars bumper and quarter panel, and his foot and ankle where laying on the road.
          So yep I was real lucky
          Signature

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          Getting old ain't for sissy's
          As you are I was, as I am you will be
          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            I Don't beat someone when they're down, and he was down.
            Here's how lucky I really was.
            My leg was wedged between the rear corner panel and rear bumper of a 69 charger(not sure about the year and make anymore, it happened in 1977).
            It was then ripped out and I ended up on the pavement. Other then some road rash, my right leg had a big gash from just below my knee to just above my ankle which needed internal and external stitches to close. I also had a hairline fracture of the Tibia which ran the length of the bone.
            When I returned to NY I ran into an ambulance driver I knew who had just came from a bike and car accident. The way he described the accident, it was exactly like mine. The major difference was the bike rider's leg was in three pieces. It was attached to him to just below the knee, then the next section stayed wedged between the cars bumper and quarter panel, and his foot and ankle where laying on the road.
            So yep I was real lucky

            THIS is different! He basically said your life wasn't worth a plugged nickle. What if you had been walking, and had no insurance. What if it were your KID?

            YEAH, you were LUCKY!!!!!

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    David,

    Realize that this is just a speech, etc... It DOES show the concern though:


    This was NOT done to start political debate, etc...

    And they HAVE done things to get rid of badly made cars, etc... Just today I was listening to a show, on a conservative channel in case anyone is curious, and it was a car show. They spoke with a guy that apparently is a turbo charger expert, and he was doing it when it was just nice to have. In the 70s, they took off. Later they kind of died. WHY? Because it was easier/cheaper to build larger bore engines, and fuel costs were somewhat stable. He said that they are now starting to talk about turbo chargers again!

    For those that don't know, larger bores(the circumference of the cylinder), OR more cylinders, mean you can pull in more gas. Power equals effectively gas*combustion*speed at which it occurs. A larger bore means MORE GAS which means more power! BUT, the mileage goes DOWN!) More cylinders gets nebulous, because each has less work to do. They don't have to go as far. A turbo charger helps to pull in more air, and mix the gas, so it is more efficient. That means less pollution and more power. It also IMPROVES the gas mileage.

    The historic problems of a turbo charger are:

    1. More moving parts.
    2. Runs hotter.
    3. Insurance costs may go up.
    4. Initial car cost is higher.
    5. More wear on the engine.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Hey Sal,

    In short, the Cloud is a series of complexes of 6 or so buildings, all of which are essentially one big server.
    There are, at my last count, 6 - 8 of these complexes around the world.
    I know at least 1 or 2 are in Mexico and 3 or 4 are in the U.S.
    What it comes down to is the pc is becoming obsolete because EVERYTHING is going to kept on the Cloud.
    The Motley Fool - Shocking video reveals how to profit from the two words Bill Gates doesn't want you to hear

    Remember several years ago when Apple came out with, I think it was called the imac.

    It was simply a monitor with an internet connection.
    That's where the pc is going.

    check out Windows 7.
    It doesn't include the standard Windows Media programs.
    It's now called "Windows Live". Hosted, where? On the cloud.

    The Cloud is the final piece of the of the total "big brother" puzzle.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Hey Sal,

      In short, the Cloud is a series of complexes of 6 or so buildings, all of which are essentially one big server.
      There are, at my last count, 6 - 8 of these complexes around the world.
      I know at least 1 or 2 are in Mexico and 3 or 4 are in the U.S.
      What it comes down to is the pc is becoming obsolete because EVERYTHING is going to kept on the Cloud.
      The Motley Fool - Shocking video reveals how to profit from the two words Bill Gates doesn't want you to hear

      Remember several years ago when Apple came out with, I think it was called the imac.

      It was simply a monitor with an internet connection.
      That's where the pc is going.

      check out Windows 7.
      It doesn't include the standard Windows Media programs.
      It's now called "Windows Live". Hosted, where? On the cloud.

      The Cloud is the final piece of the of the total "big brother" puzzle.
      So they've built the means to control the internet and monitor our every move, eh? Our president is now able to shut down the internet during emergencies, too......um....would that be in circumstances such as Americans storming the White house to get our country back and remove criminals from office? Or just when he/she (depending on who is pres at the time) decides to do something really nasty and doesn't want word to get around fast?

      We all seem to know what's gone wrong and what our leaders have done and are continuing to do. We can hash that forever and a day. What I'm wondering is where are we going to go from here? What are we going to do to take our lives back? Do we start by kicking out the people at the top or do we start by going and introducing ourselves to someone we see all the time but have never really even met? Where do we start? We have to do something or we're going to all end up like cattle in the slaughterhouse corral - if we aren't actually there already.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        So they've built the means to control the internet and monitor our every move, eh? Our president is now able to shut down the internet during emergencies, too......um....would that be in circumstances such as Americans storming the White house to get our country back and remove criminals from office? Or just when he/she (depending on who is pres at the time) decides to do something really nasty and doesn't want word to get around fast?

        We all seem to know what's gone wrong and what our leaders have done and are continuing to do. We can hash that forever and a day. What I'm wondering is where are we going to go from here? What are we going to do to take our lives back? Do we start by kicking out the people at the top or do we start by going and introducing ourselves to someone we see all the time but have never really even met? Where do we start? We have to do something or we're going to all end up like cattle in the slaughterhouse corral - if we aren't actually there already.
        NO SAL, you don't understand. LCOMB is NOT talking about a way to merely cut us off from the internet. He is talking about a technology to disable COMPUTERS!!!!!! You won't even be able to use your computer as a TYPEWRITER! THAT is why he mentioned the limited capability of the "imac". It must not have been the imac, because THAT one WAS a computer. But they are trying to move towards the APPLE I!!!!! The APPLE I was basically a concept system, and not much more than a terminal! It DID have a cassette interface you could get that was TOUCHY, and an expansion port that was probably never supported! File:Apple 1 Advertisement Oct 1976.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ALSO, the cloud centers could be regulated. Doctors could INSTANTLY have ALL registrations pulled and deactivated! Did YOU know that doctors have to have SEVERAL licenses? It is like on house where they STILL allowed him to act like a doctor and suggest treatment(DOCTORS LICENSE), but couldn't write prescriptions(which are OTHER licenses).

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        So

        We all seem to know what's gone wrong and what our leaders have done and are continuing to do. We can hash that forever and a day. What I'm wondering is where are we going to go from here? What are we going to do to take our lives back? Do we start by kicking out the people at the top or do we start by going and introducing ourselves to someone we see all the time but have never really even met? Where do we start? We have to do something or we're going to all end up like cattle in the slaughterhouse corral - if we aren't actually there already.
        I thought that was what the tea party was supposed to be doing but at the risk of getting my head chopped off here I think all they did was elect a bunch of people who are even crazier/more inept than the ones who were already in congress. On the other hand, I got suckered in by Obama. I wish there were more Elizabeth Warrens out there. I have a great deal of respect for her and hope she does run for congress.

        Maybe term limits - like one term only, would help? Maybe then they wouldn't always be campaigning. I was watching Fareed Zacharia today and there were a couple of folks saying that parliamentary governments may be the way to go because the executive and legislative vote as one (i.e. no bickering). Yet considering the riots in England one has to scratch their head at that conclusion.

        There are some pundits who have been asking the question for a long time, but doesn't it all come down to who has the money? Until Americans stop worshiping the almighty dollar to an absurd degree we are somewhat stuck with what Wall Street and the plutocrats decide to give us.

        Yet this congress. This government. Including POTUS and SCOTUS (Citizens United as an example), are all playing a game that makes me want to just vote them all out. Trouble is, can we trust anyone who wants that job? I mean, would you?
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

          I thought that was what the tea party was supposed to be doing but at the risk of getting my head chopped off here I think all they did was elect a bunch of people who are even crazier/more inept than the ones who were already in congress. On the other hand, I got suckered in by Obama. I wish there were more Elizabeth Warrens out there. I have a great deal of respect for her and hope she does run for congress.

          Maybe term limits - like one term only, would help? Maybe then they wouldn't always be campaigning. I was watching Fareed Zacharia today and there were a couple of folks saying that parliamentary governments may be the way to go because the executive and legislative vote as one (i.e. no bickering). Yet considering the riots in England one has to scratch their head at that conclusion.

          There are some pundits who have been asking the question for a long time, but doesn't it all come down to who has the money? Until Americans stop worshiping the almighty dollar to an absurd degree we are somewhat stuck with what Wall Street and the plutocrats decide to give us.

          Yet this congress. This government. Including POTUS and SCOTUS (Citizens United as an example), are all playing a game that makes me want to just vote them all out. Trouble is, can we trust anyone who wants that job? I mean, would you?
          Trying to keep this from becoming partisan so it doesn't get deleted....


          It doesn't matter who is running on what platform. If someone wants to lie their way in - they can do it. We can't kick them back out because they completely fabricated their whole image to get in there. And - even those who go in thinking they are going to help get in and are strong armed by the others. Don't go along with the program? Anything could happen to you.

          We need a place to start. Maybe shutting off TV's and cellphones is a good start. Old fashioned family nights where nobody turns on anything but maybe possibly some music and sits on the front porch chatting with each other and the neighbors? Maybe just hold a big Egyptian style party in DC until they finally run to hide then restock their posts when they are gone?

          I'm looking around at all the countries we helped - and wondering, who is going to be there to help us if the bottom falls out? Who will help us get thugs out of our offices or give our starving some relief? The answer is that there isn't anyone. So we have to figure out a way to quit worrying who our neighbors are boffing behind the walls of their own bedrooms at night or who wants to smoke what or if our car meets the neighborhood status quos standards and get busy on exerting a few of our freedoms and insisting on the right to do so.


          STEVE -- They can shut your computer down so you can't even type if you are offline? Um....yes or no is kewl. I don't understand the technology and don't have time to learn it now. I understand very little of what you say when you are talking about computers. I've got some strong areas of expertise - but the stuff you spit out isn't even close to one of them - it's on the other end of the universe for me. I look in the main forum and see people laughing at those who say the internet might end - but then I see this type of thing and wonder what is so off-base about the people who think that our days online are numbered. If they can shut anyone off just because they are saying things that the "authorities" don't like, I'd say that the "end" of the internet as we know it would be a good assessment of the situation.
          Signature

          Sal
          When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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          • Profile picture of the author Patrician
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Trying to keep this from becoming partisan so it doesn't get deleted....
            That would be a shame - first interesting thread in a while -

            A few of you seem like you are oblivious to the rule about politics.

            Just want to emphasize words like 'government', 'tea party', names of candidates, 'parties', etc would be construed at 'political'.

            (duh?)
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

              That would be a shame - first interesting thread in a while -

              A few of you seem like you are oblivious to the rule about politics.

              Just want to emphasize words like 'government', 'tea party', names of candidates, 'parties', etc would be construed at 'political'.

              (duh?)
              Well, in my defense, I only put a thankyou on it, and didn't comment. Yeah, it is unfortunate. Lately, the odd comment seems to be accepted. Especially when issuing a lament that the pro must agree with and the con probably like. Let's just not push it.

              MY post about JC was tasteful, done in a non partisan way, and in direct response to a non political question, it directly related to. Hopefully all realize that.

              Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author lcombs
              Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

              That would be a shame - first interesting thread in a while -

              A few of you seem like you are oblivious to the rule about politics.

              Just want to emphasize words like 'government', 'tea party', names of candidates, 'parties', etc would be construed at 'political'.

              (duh?)
              I agree.
              We're walking a very thin line here.
              I'm a bit surprised this thread hasn't been shut down.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            STEVE -- They can shut your computer down so you can't even type if you are offline?
            The idea is to centralize computng and storage. If you are offline, the "computer" won't work, because it is NOT a "computer" in the traditional sense. It wouldn't affect your CURRENT systems, but there are ways around that that have been done for HUNDREDS of years. Heck, I have 10b2 network stuff I can't really hook up. Computers don't last for ever and there won't be a market withot current software, that could be illegal, etc...

            I look in the main forum and see people laughing at those who say the internet might end
            Well, the FACT is that the internet has been around since like 1970. HECK, I wanted to get on it for quite a while. I was shocked when someone in 1992 told me I could. The WWW didn't really exist yet.

            One ex senator is laughed at for saying he created the internet. What I THINK he really meant, even if he tried to lead the misunderstanding, is that he played a part in making it PUBLIC.

            The government has its tentacles all through the internet, and COULD easily do damage. They COULD mandate that credit card companies not allow payments through the internet.

            Of course, someone COULD start ANOTHER network. Even do it via radio. People have done it for decades and continue to do so. It could catch on. Still, someone TRUSTWORTHY has to run finance.

            Of course, limiting access to parts, and getting rid of fully functional computers could hurt even THAT!

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Steve, that was an interesting video. The rate of growth needed to keep up with demand as mentioned in the video is mind boggling. And that was almost thirty years ago.

    Very sorry to hear about your mother, she was no doubt very proud to have brought somebody as intelligent as you into this world. She left us a world better than she found it
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      Steve, that was an interesting video. The rate of growth needed to keep up with demand as mentioned in the video is mind boggling. And that was almost thirty years ago.

      Very sorry to hear about your mother, she was no doubt very proud to have brought somebody as intelligent as you into this world. She left us a world better than she found it
      well, I appreciate the nice thoughts.

      Yeah, back then, heaters and coolers might have been, ESTIMATING now, maybe 60% efficient. Don't ask me PRECISELY what that means. It is some kind of testing against some theoretical maximum. TODAY, they may be over 90%! So they require like 30% less power/gas. My heaters are around 80%, but I just replaced my water heater with a more efficient one. They had ANOTHER that was supposed to be SO efficient that it needed to have a special ventilation system, and it cost 50% more. But I didn't have the time, know how the building code would affect it, and didn't like the idea of spending another 50%. 8-(

      Back then, there were BIG HEAVY cars that had a lot of POWER, and maybe had MPG of 6+. NOW they tend to be smaller, lighter, not as strong, and have maybe 30MPG+. On the report I heard on the radio today, the guy mentioned he had a VW car that is diesel, and gets about 40MPG! Who knows, maybe with turbocharging it could get 50MPG. Of course, it looks like I am getting less than 18MPG in my 6cyl 2001 alero 8-( The government says I should be getting 19-29! They MUST be wrong, because that is about as good as the 4cyl they list! My 4cyl VW 1991 jetta averaged just below 24. The government says 21-26.

      I figured out the mileage by taking several tanks of gas running them to about empty through normal driving and dividing the miles by the gas.

      ALSO, back then, cars were cars, and the owner had SOLE responsibility over them. TODAY, some federal and state laws mandate certain tests periodically.

      ALSO, more sources of fuel have been found, and allowed, and more methods have been found as well. And gas is watered down.

      In short, we will NEVER know if carter was right, but we have more gas, each user needs less gas, and each user generates less pollution, so it certainly isn't as bad, as he said, NOW.

      NONE of this is to say we don't need to replace this with some cleaner and sustainable fuel, because we DO. It just isn't QUITE as dire as HE said.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author doingwrite
    I'm sorry. I started those specific references. I did not realize there was a line that could be crossed and I hereby pledge not to go near it again!
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by doingwrite View Post

      I'm sorry. I started those specific references. I did not realize there was a line that could be crossed and I hereby pledge not to go near it again!
      I wasn't pointing out you specifically.
      I meant this entire thread.
      Almost every post is political in nature.

      But, we are, for the most part, discussing society in general and technology and the possible implications.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I think for the most part talking about gov as a whole and not specific branches, parties, and people doesn't get something shut down if gov isn't the main subject. It's just that people start picking it apart down to individuals and parties - and that can enrage others. We don't need that. Actually with a whole power structure that's in kahoots and behaving like criminals, it's pretty beside the point to pick out one or two factions or people anyhow. It's the whole Structure of power - corporations, gov - and just really filthy rich that have decided they own everyone else.

    People have become just so freaking helpless. They will sell their souls for something they want. They refuse to do anything to get rights back or to topple a corporation that is abusive.

    Look at the employment situation. People HATE certain companies - but if there is a job open they will violate their own moral principles to get that money - even if working there will cause pain and death to others. Monsanto is completely destroying our environment and the lives of many farmers -- yet let em put out a job announcement and watch em go running.

    I had a chance for a contract job last week. I went in to fill out the paperwork and not only did they want a drug test - they wanted to me to sign that it was okay for them to take random tests (even though if I were to hurt myself they would test then and their insurance would not cover it if I tested positive) No here's where it gets real kewl -- they also wanted me to sign over the right for them to hold random body and car searches. Not search if something was stolen - but just randomly. I asked if they were affiliated with TSA. I further ripped up the contract and told them to take a flying leap. If someone suspects me of holding drugs or stealing, they are more than welcome to call the police and take the chance that I retaliate with a lawsuit when found to be innocent. I can't imagine a person giving a corporation a right to just come over and feel them up any damned time they want to. I can also envision the poor young woman with the awesome face and body getting her daily frisk before she left work and having no legal recourse other than to quit work anyway because she GAVE them the right to do that to her.

    Does anyone think for one minute about how easy it would be to get that kind of corporate bullying stopped? They need employees. All it would take is to have people say "No freaking way" and they would either have to adopt more constitutionally correct rules, or they would fail. So what if they fail? If it makes a hole in the area of demand, someone else will open a company to fill that hole. If they are opening companies because businesses who acted like concentration camps failed - they aren't going to adopt the same policies that killed the last business.

    All it would take is people following suit demanding their right to be innocent until proven guilty to get that kind of stuff stopped. And outsourcing? Stop buying. Seriously. Other companies will replace a company who can't survive here because they outsourced the labor. Isn't giving up TV or a cell phone for a few months worth seeing jobs brought back to this country?

    Schools abusing your kids - having them put on drugs, not teaching, searching kids - you name it? Get together with other parents and just refuse to let your kids walk in the door of the school. You think they are going to take a whole town's kids away from them instead of changing the school system policies? That's ridiculous. Even if they did - it could be broadcast so far and wide that they would create hell for themselves doing it and people would not only get their kids back - they'd be able to sue the school out of existence.

    Instead of getting together and making things like that happen - we are being distracted into fighting each other like idiots.

    We worry about who people want to sleep with (okay, I mean other adults, not kids). Anyone in power knows that they can do any damned thing they want to us -- as long as they don't get caught sleeping with someone they shouldn't be. How freaking stupid and trivial have we become? They can enact laws or corporate policies that will actually get people killed - as long as they are the right religion, political party, sexual orientation. You can violate any one of our rights you want, destroy our environment, make people severely ill -- as long as you provide a few picky-uny jobs for a few of them.

    Where the hell are our priorities? What the hell happened to acting with a little bit of backbone.

    Talk about entitlement attitudes - we now think we get rights when we don't care enough to demand them or are scared we'll get punished for doing so?

    I walked out on a contract that would have made me some good money because I refused to be treated like a slave to render services to them. I'm on a freaking slow computer connection because I refuse to deal with the main local company that outsources jobs overseas.

    I do so knowing full well the next guy isn't going to take a stand and will just cow-tow at the feet of the PTB. It's frustrating. I know if everyone else followed suit, everything would go back to normal real fast - it would break the power structure that has taken over. I also know that I can't ever count on that happening. Too many people are too worried about immediate satisfaction of their own wants to risk any discomfort to get this country and our lives back to normal.

    It's really frustrating seeing my freedoms being completely extinguished because nobody else gives a rip about theirs beyond being able to yap about it or sign another effete petition.

    Well - I feel better for a few minutes. Would feel a LOT better if I thought what I just said would make a damned difference in the least.
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I think for the most part talking about gov as a whole and not specific branches, parties, and people doesn't get something shut down if gov isn't the main subject. It's just that people start picking it apart down to individuals and parties - and that can enrage others. We don't need that. Actually with a whole power structure that's in kahoots and behaving like criminals, it's pretty beside the point to pick out one or two factions or people anyhow. It's the whole Structure of power - corporations, gov - and just really filthy rich that have decided they own everyone else.

      People have become just so freaking helpless. They will sell their souls for something they want. They refuse to do anything to get rights back or to topple a corporation that is abusive.

      Look at the employment situation. People HATE certain companies - but if there is a job open they will violate their own moral principles to get that money - even if working there will cause pain and death to others. Monsanto is completely destroying our environment and the lives of many farmers -- yet let em put out a job announcement and watch em go running.

      I had a chance for a contract job last week. I went in to fill out the paperwork and not only did they want a drug test - they wanted to me to sign that it was okay for them to take random tests (even though if I were to hurt myself they would test then and their insurance would not cover it if I tested positive) No here's where it gets real kewl -- they also wanted me to sign over the right for them to hold random body and car searches. Not search if something was stolen - but just randomly. I asked if they were affiliated with TSA. I further ripped up the contract and told them to take a flying leap. If someone suspects me of holding drugs or stealing, they are more than welcome to call the police and take the chance that I retaliate with a lawsuit when found to be innocent. I can't imagine a person giving a corporation a right to just come over and feel them up any damned time they want to. I can also envision the poor young woman with the awesome face and body getting her daily frisk before she left work and having no legal recourse other than to quit work anyway because she GAVE them the right to do that to her.

      Does anyone think for one minute about how easy it would be to get that kind of corporate bullying stopped? They need employees. All it would take is to have people say "No freaking way" and they would either have to adopt more constitutionally correct rules, or they would fail. So what if they fail? If it makes a hole in the area of demand, someone else will open a company to fill that hole. If they are opening companies because businesses who acted like concentration camps failed - they aren't going to adopt the same policies that killed the last business.

      All it would take is people following suit demanding their right to be innocent until proven guilty to get that kind of stuff stopped. And outsourcing? Stop buying. Seriously. Other companies will replace a company who can't survive here because they outsourced the labor. Isn't giving up TV or a cell phone for a few months worth seeing jobs brought back to this country?

      Schools abusing your kids - having them put on drugs, not teaching, searching kids - you name it? Get together with other parents and just refuse to let your kids walk in the door of the school. You think they are going to take a whole town's kids away from them instead of changing the school system policies? That's ridiculous. Even if they did - it could be broadcast so far and wide that they would create hell for themselves doing it and people would not only get their kids back - they'd be able to sue the school out of existence.

      Instead of getting together and making things like that happen - we are being distracted into fighting each other like idiots.

      We worry about who people want to sleep with (okay, I mean other adults, not kids). Anyone in power knows that they can do any damned thing they want to us -- as long as they don't get caught sleeping with someone they shouldn't be. How freaking stupid and trivial have we become? They can enact laws or corporate policies that will actually get people killed - as long as they are the right religion, political party, sexual orientation. You can violate any one of our rights you want, destroy our environment, make people severely ill -- as long as you provide a few picky-uny jobs for a few of them.

      Where the hell are our priorities? What the hell happened to acting with a little bit of backbone.

      Talk about entitlement attitudes - we now think we get rights when we don't care enough to demand them or are scared we'll get punished for doing so?

      I walked out on a contract that would have made me some good money because I refused to be treated like a slave to render services to them. I'm on a freaking slow computer connection because I refuse to deal with the main local company that outsources jobs overseas.

      I do so knowing full well the next guy isn't going to take a stand and will just cow-tow at the feet of the PTB. It's frustrating. I know if everyone else followed suit, everything would go back to normal real fast - it would break the power structure that has taken over. I also know that I can't ever count on that happening. Too many people are too worried about immediate satisfaction of their own wants to risk any discomfort to get this country and our lives back to normal.

      It's really frustrating seeing my freedoms being completely extinguished because nobody else gives a rip about theirs beyond being able to yap about it or sign another effete petition.

      Well - I feel better for a few minutes. Would feel a LOT better if I thought what I just said would make a damned difference in the least.
      All it would take is for ALL working people, ( and by "working" I mean the middle class people who actually do the work. Not the people who do business on the golf course and go to the "business mans' Thursday @ 1:00 ball games, etc. ) to stay home for one or two days. Don't drive anywhere, don't buy anything, etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
        Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

        All it would take is for ALL working people, ( and by "working" I mean the middle class people who actually do the work. Not the people who do business on the golf course and go to the "business mans' Thursday @ 1:00 ball games, etc. ) to stay home for one or two days. Don't drive anywhere, don't buy anything, etc.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY0COX0gcyw&feature=related

        I completely agree. The middle class make up the majority of the US taxpayers. The middle class are the ones who are responsible for consumer spending, a stable economy.

        I have nothing against the rich. Sorry there's a but coming... but MSM is attempting to instill the belief that the upper 2% are the ones who create jobs.

        Where are the jobs?

        The upper 2% do not create jobs and in fact, they take their money overseas to get a better return on their buck. The upper 2% have enjoyed the past decade of the most relaxed tax rules than in the history of the US.

        Where's the jobs?

        I believe I said this before, sorry to repeat myself, but it is most difficult to discuss the economic conditions without crossing that fine political line.

        I read the rules. I am on many forums and I realize that is no excuse to breaking a forum rules, we can all cut people some slack for saying something inappropriate or against the rules without insulting remarks.

        I hope to learn from all of you as I continue to stay active on this forum and no doubt I'll break a rule in the future. After it is pointed out to me, I will never forget it.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    WOW, the last time I changed a contract, they merely wanted to steal my career! LITERALLY they said that if I had a statement like A=B+1, that THEY were to have sole EXCLUSIVE rights to that code, and I was to fully explain and document it, and help them PATENT AND SELL IT!

    I told them FORGET IT! They said "OK, that is boilerplate.", and I crossed it out. YEAH RIGHT! I have seen HUNDREDS of such contracts! I even read the whole NOLO press book many have used. It was NOT boilerplate! Besides, I was NOT hired to have them start a software business. They were an insurance company! I was CERTAINLY not hired to give them my CAREER! I would have gladly sold THAT for a few million, and they could afford it. Of course, as a sub contractor, they might have to pay about 12 million. I would be nice, and try to work it out with my main contract. Saying I could never use instructions I used there would be tantamount to ending my career.

    Luckily, I never had to rip up a contract. I HAVE left jobs based on the contract though.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    "Everybody complains about the weather, but, nobody does anything about it"
    -Mark Twain-
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      "Everybody complains about the weather, but, nobody does anything about it"
      -Mark Twain-
      Trust me, I would if I could.

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    I think for the most part talking about gov as a whole and not specific branches, parties, and people doesn't get something shut down if gov isn't the main subject. It's just that people start picking it apart down to individuals and parties - and that can enrage others. We don't need that. Actually with a whole power structure that's in kahoots and behaving like criminals, it's pretty beside the point to pick out one or two factions or people anyhow. It's the whole Structure of power - corporations, gov - and just really filthy rich that have decided they own everyone else.
    Yes the blame game is not productive. I agree, it is the whole structure of power. Be nice to clean house.

    Do you remember when it was considered an honor to serve this country in office? You served one term and then went back to your job. The pay was very little and the reason you did it was to give back to the country, not for the career.

    People have become just so freaking helpless. They will sell their souls for something they want. They refuse to do anything to get rights back or to topple a corporation that is abusive.
    So true. The largest banks were on the brink of failure and were bailed out, using taxpayer dollars. I realize it was in the form of preferred shares of stock, call it whatever you want to call it, but I will call it bail out using taxpayer dollars.

    One of the caveats to this doling out money to the too big to fail (TBTF) playas was they would in turn lend money to jump start the economy.

    Did they do that? No, they didn't. Rather, they recorded record earnings and gave out enormous bonuses in the worst economic times in close to 100 years.

    Do people continue to use the TBTF banks for their banking needs?
    Yes they do. I don't get it. The same industry responsible for the collapse of the housing market resulting in dreadful economic conditions and people continue to feed the giants.

    Look at the employment situation. People HATE certain companies - but if there is a job open they will violate their own moral principles to get that money - even if working there will cause pain and death to others. Monsanto is completely destroying our environment and the lives of many farmers -- yet let em put out a job announcement and watch em go running.
    It seems that people are either not very bright when it comes to knowing the particulars of companies or they choose not to know.

    Sal, random body and car searches? I have never heard of that. Unless it is a high security government facility... ? WTH? I bet PTF Manning, the military man who was accused of espionage when he gave information to Julien Assange wasn't subjected to that type of "security".


    Does anyone think for one minute about how easy it would be to get that kind of corporate bullying stopped? They need employees. All it would take is to have people say "No freaking way" and they would either have to adopt more constitutionally correct rules, or they would fail. So what if they fail? If it makes a hole in the area of demand, someone else will open a company to fill that hole. If they are opening companies because businesses who acted like concentration camps failed - they aren't going to adopt the same policies that killed the last business.
    I think about this often. Please forgive me for using another example of the corruption in the housing industry. There is evidence documented all over the internet and in county land records office of fraudulent paperwork being filed. On my forum, I put out a call to the members and visitors (tens of thousands) to contact their State AG and demand that an investigation be had into this fraud.

    The response was less than dismal, it was infuriating. Here these people come on my forum and bitch every day about the goings on and yet when they are asked to sacrifice a few minutes of their time, they don't.

    Same thing as what you say about people standing up and saying "No freaking way", making a difference, taking a stand, getting off their lazy behinds and doing something rather than complaining.

    Isn't giving up TV or a cell phone for a few months worth seeing jobs brought back to this country?
    I LOVE this idea. It would be a brilliant move if, and that is a big if people would make a small sacrifice.

    Oh I fight the school system. Although my husband is not happy about it, when I know something is wrong, I cannot let it go. I never seem to be able to have any other parents join me.... but I have no problem going solo.

    I have to do everything I can to make a difference and I won't stop.

    Instead of getting together and making things like that happen - we are being distracted into fighting each other like idiots.
    That is exactly what the powers that be want. If we are busy fighting each other, we lose sight of the real problems.




    I won't give up hope. I really hope you don't Sal or any one reading this. Remember: one person can make a difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    LORI, Not all the top 2% is bad, some DO create jobs. And even buying a yacht, or fueling a plane helps jobs. In any event, the poor should support and BACK the middle class. They should aspire to JOIN the middle class. If they try, and assimilate, they CAN join the middle class!!!!! Even if they DON'T, the middle class supports them. The rich can say ALL THEY want about spending TWICE the tax for their size, the top 2% supposedly make 20% of the money, and supposedly pay 40% of the tax. The middle class generally does the real work, so THEY make the products and do the services that bring in the mney and support society. The middle class should support the upper class as much as they can, within reason. New taxes the rich get likely WILL hit or affect the middle class, for example.

    Realize, I am NOT talking about supporting those jerks in the BP fiasco, madoff, enron, etc.... I am NOT talking about supporting IBM selling that stuff to china, etc... Still, there is TOO MUCH class warfare and most of it HURTS everyone, INCLUDING those waging it.

    Hopefully this can stay, I think this is pretty even handed. I consider myself to be upper middle class. HECK, SOME would consider me to be middle middle class, which is where I would say I have been most of my life. My mother was lower middle class, and my father is probably lower or middle upper class. My father supports my step mother, who is probably lower upper class, and she has maybe a dozen employees. They also generally hire other people as well for some jobs. ALL US residents, and most are probably citizens! And my step mother helps build reputations and through that COMPANIES! THEY hire!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      LORI, Not all the top 2% is bad, some DO create jobs. And even buying a yacht, or fueling a plane helps jobs. In any event, the poor should support and BACK the middle class. They should aspire to JOIN the middle class. If they try, and assimilate, they CAN join the middle class!!!!! Even if they DON'T, the middle class supports them. The rich can say ALL THEY want about spending TWICE the tax for their size, the top 2% supposedly make 20% of the money, and supposedly pay 40% of the tax. The middle class generally does the real work, so THEY make the products and do the services that bring in the mney and support society. The middle class should support the upper class as much as they can, within reason. New taxes the rich get likely WILL hit or affect the middle class, for example.

      Realize, I am NOT talking about supporting those jerks in the BP fiasco, madoff, enron, etc.... I am NOT talking about supporting IBM selling that stuff to china, etc... Still, there is TOO MUCH class warfare and most of it HURTS everyone, INCLUDING those waging it.

      Hopefully this can stay, I think this is pretty even handed. I consider myself to be upper middle class. HECK, SOME would consider me to be middle middle class, which is where I would say I have been most of my life. My mother was lower middle class, and my father is probably lower or middle upper class. My father supports my step mother, who is probably lower upper class, and she has maybe a dozen employees. They also generally hire other people as well for some jobs. ALL US residents, and most are probably citizens! And my step mother helps build reputations and through that COMPANIES! THEY hire!

      Steve
      You're right.
      Not ALL companies are bad.
      But, I'd say 99% of CEOs and upper management are in it for the money
      and the power and have no idea about the inner workings of the business.
      They make stupid decisions based on numbers and text book models and theorys. The people who actually do the work either find a way around the decisions or, have to bust their as*es to find a way to make them work.
      Then, the people who made those decisions pat each other on the back, go out for a "victory" dinner at a 4 star restaurant, and give each other huge bonuses.
      Not to mention the golden parachutes.
      They hire someone at an enormous salary and when they fail they give them a multi-million dollar severance to go away.

      I've worked in many different jobs, in many different fields.
      I've worked on assembly lines, service, retail, outside sales, and management, as well as worked for myself in construction.

      In all the companies I've worked for I had 1 who at least had the sense to pretend to care about their employees and took pretty good care of us.

      There's a talk show host on WLW named Bill Cunningham.
      He constantly talks about how we should all be thankful for the rich
      because they give us jobs.
      I have never had an employer who hired anybody out of the kindness of their hearts.
      They hire as few as possible and pay them as little as possible.
      When I was a truck driver I made regular deliveries and pick-ups at
      Square-D in Middletown, Ohio.
      When I first stopped there I noticed a big banner hanging above a doorway
      that read, "Thanks To You, We Did It!".
      Apparently meant as a "tribute" to the workers for a goal reached.
      Over the next 2 years they began closing the plant.
      Every time I stopped there there were fewer and fewer employees.
      But that banner still hung there.
      That banner stayed there until the last employee left.

      All I could think was, "Yeah, thanks alot! Our reward is losing our jobs."

      I've been to too many meetings where management gave us the "team work" and "loyalty" speech they made me sick.

      Loyalty works both ways. and I never worked for a company that was
      loyal to their employees.
      They want you to give 2 weeks notice when you leave, but, when you're fired they have security escort you to the door immediately.

      I have experienced too many times when a company "loses" money, ( and by that I mean they aren't making as much as their projections), because of bad management and inefficiency but instead of finding and fixing the problem, (because they don't know how), they cut costs by laying people off.
      And, once again, here comes the "victory dinner" and bonuses for increasing profits.

      Sorry,
      Rant over.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
        Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

        You're right.
        Not ALL companies are bad.
        But, I'd say 99% of CEOs and upper management are in it for the money
        and the power and have no idea about the inner workings of the business.
        They make stupid decisions based on numbers and text book models and theorys. The people who actually do the work either find a way around the decisions or, have to bust their as*es to find a way to make them work.
        Then, the people who made those decisions pat each other on the back, go out for a "victory" dinner at a 4 star restaurant, and give each other huge bonuses.
        Not to mention the golden parachutes.
        They hire someone at an enormous salary and when they fail they give them a multi-million dollar severance to go away.

        I've worked in many different jobs, in many different fields.
        I've worked on assembly lines, service, retail, outside sales, and management, as well as worked for myself in construction.

        In all the companies I've worked for I had 1 who at least had the sense to pretend to care about their employees and took pretty good care of us.

        There's a talk show host on WLW named Bill Cunningham.
        He constantly talks about how we should all be thankful for the rich
        because they give us jobs.
        I have never had an employer who hired anybody out of the kindness of their hearts.
        They hire as few as possible and pay them as little as possible.
        When I was a truck driver I made regular deliveries and pick-ups at
        Square-D in Middletown, Ohio.
        When I first stopped there I noticed a big banner hanging above a doorway
        that read, "Thanks To You, We Did It!".
        Apparently meant as a "tribute" to the workers for a goal reached.
        Over the next 2 years they began closing the plant.
        Every time I stopped there there were fewer and fewer employees.
        But that banner still hung there.
        That banner stayed there until the last employee left.

        All I could think was, "Yeah, thanks alot! Our reward is losing our jobs."

        I've been to too many meetings where management gave us the "team work" and "loyalty" speech they made me sick.

        Loyalty works both ways. and I never worked for a company that was
        loyal to their employees.
        They want you to give 2 weeks notice when you leave, but, when you're fired they have security escort you to the door immediately.

        I have experienced too many times when a company "loses" money, ( and by that I mean they aren't making as much as their projections), because of bad management and inefficiency but instead of finding and fixing the problem, (because they don't know how), they cut costs by laying people off.
        And, once again, here comes the "victory dinner" and bonuses for increasing profits.

        Sorry,
        Rant over.

        Hello lcombs. No need to apologize for your rant.

        Yes, not all companies are bad and I agree with you that the majority are in it for the money and power. If more CEOs were interested in the inner workings of their company, they would take time to see how their business truly operates. Without their middlemen, their profits would not be possible.

        In 2009, the average CEO pay at S&P 500 companies was $9.2 million, including stock options, pensions, etc. I am sure we can all agree, that is a lot of money.

        In 2009, Jamie Dimon, Chase CEO was paid a $17,000,000 bonus in restricted stock and options for 2009. Goldman Sucks reported Blankfein would receive a $9,000,000 bonus. (On a side note, Blankfein retained a high profile attorney to represent him in a possible DOJ investigation of the housing crisis.)

        James Gorman CEO of Morgan Stanley: no cash bonus for 2009 but was reported to walk away with $9,000,000 stock based compensation. Gorman received $800,000 for his 2009 salary.

        And one of my favorite (not) Brian Moynihan, BOA's CEO received a salary of $950,000. Moynihan had the audacity to state that he saw no disconnect between the lavish bonuses for executives during the tough economic times.

        My point. In 2009, these financial companies were, in large part, responsible for the housing meltdown.

        If they were able to receive that kind of compensation, why did they need a bailout?

        There are companies that get it. If the CEO needs cut his salary to keep his employees instead of laying them off, he/she does just that. Unfortunately, that is more of an exception than the rule.

        I too have worked many jobs. I was a waitress for a while and it was one of the hardest jobs I ever had. After working in the food industry, I think it is a good idea that everyone work in the food industry for at least one day.

        You mention Bill Cunningham. He is completely disconnected from reality, in my opinion.

        When you were a truck driver, how about instead of the banner that greeted you, you were able to participate in the company's profits?

        I won't get started on the CEO, hedge fund managers, banksters, victory dinners or the lavish vacations.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      LORI, Not all the top 2% is bad, some DO create jobs. And even buying a yacht, or fueling a plane helps jobs. In any event, the poor should support and BACK the middle class. They should aspire to JOIN the middle class. If they try, and assimilate, they CAN join the middle class!!!!! Even if they DON'T, the middle class supports them. The rich can say ALL THEY want about spending TWICE the tax for their size, the top 2% supposedly make 20% of the money, and supposedly pay 40% of the tax. The middle class generally does the real work, so THEY make the products and do the services that bring in the mney and support society. The middle class should support the upper class as much as they can, within reason. New taxes the rich get likely WILL hit or affect the middle class, for example.

      Realize, I am NOT talking about supporting those jerks in the BP fiasco, madoff, enron, etc.... I am NOT talking about supporting IBM selling that stuff to china, etc... Still, there is TOO MUCH class warfare and most of it HURTS everyone, INCLUDING those waging it.

      Hopefully this can stay, I think this is pretty even handed. I consider myself to be upper middle class. HECK, SOME would consider me to be middle middle class, which is where I would say I have been most of my life. My mother was lower middle class, and my father is probably lower or middle upper class. My father supports my step mother, who is probably lower upper class, and she has maybe a dozen employees. They also generally hire other people as well for some jobs. ALL US residents, and most are probably citizens! And my step mother helps build reputations and through that COMPANIES! THEY hire!

      Steve


      Hello Steve.

      I have lost many posts myself. Now before I press the Submit Reply button, I right mouse it, select all, copy, and just in case I need to paste, I have what I just wrote.

      I agree, not all the top 2% are bad. Some, albeit very few, do create jobs.

      Never before has there been such a gap between the classes. How did this happen? Why did it happen? It shouldn't have happened, regardless of the reasons.

      If we continue this direction, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. There will be no middle class. That is a scary thought.

      Our kids will not have the same opportunities we had. They will be stuck paying the huge US debt. That is sad.

      As you state, there are many classifications of middle class. We won't have to worry about that in the next decade. The middle class will be gone.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post


        If we continue this direction, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. There will be no middle class. That is a scary thought.

        Our kids will not have the same opportunities we had. They will be stuck paying the huge US debt. That is sad.

        As you state, there are many classifications of middle class. We won't have to worry about that in the next decade. The middle class will be gone.
        Decade? Consider it a done deal. A LOT of it got wiped out in 2008 and they've been leaking people out since then. Now we have "another" recession coming. Um...excuse me...when did the last one end? This next wave should do the trick. There's going to be a lot of people high enough up that they think they are safe that get trashed this time around. They are going after a whole new category of people this time. Those knocked out in the first round don't need to be worried about - they are already powerless. It's going to be the 1/4 mil crowd that gets wiped in the next wave.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Decade? Consider it a done deal. A LOT of it got wiped out in 2008 and they've been leaking people out since then. Now we have "another" recession coming. Um...excuse me...when did the last one end? This next wave should do the trick. There's going to be a lot of people high enough up that they think they are safe that get trashed this time around. They are going after a whole new category of people this time. Those knocked out in the first round don't need to be worried about - they are already powerless. It's going to be the 1/4 mil crowd that gets wiped in the next wave.
          Okay, so the speculation of a decade, nothing more than my eternal optimism.

          This is no recession. The "first one" never ended. This is a depression. The talking heads can label it any way they want. Get in the trenches with the middle class and walk a mile in our shoes.


          You know as involved as I am in the banking industry, I often wonder why they are cutting off their noses despite their faces. Origination of loans generated a substantial income. The banksters created the mess, now there is very, very little loan originations, so that sector of profit is gone. The refis, paa leese. Granted the interest rates are at historical lows, millions cannot afford to refinance because their homes are severely underwater and/or they are unemployed.

          What's left? As I watch BOA stock hit record lows, they're going to hit the bottom. I fear the government, which means us, the US taxpayer will bail them out again. If enough public outcry is made, maybe there won't be a bailout, they will simply file BK and emerge tomorrow with new sweet sounding name.

          I guess the group who devised the complex formula of securitization never thought about "what ifs". HUGE mistake.

          It is the middle class to whom the upper class makes their money.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

        Hello Steve.

        I have lost many posts myself. Now before I press the Submit Reply button, I right mouse it, select all, copy, and just in case I need to paste, I have what I just wrote.

        I agree, not all the top 2% are bad. Some, albeit very few, do create jobs.

        Never before has there been such a gap between the classes. How did this happen? Why did it happen? It shouldn't have happened, regardless of the reasons.

        If we continue this direction, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. There will be no middle class. That is a scary thought.

        Our kids will not have the same opportunities we had. They will be stuck paying the huge US debt. That is sad.

        As you state, there are many classifications of middle class. We won't have to worry about that in the next decade. The middle class will be gone.
        Yeah, I often forget to save the stuff. LUCKILY, my first copy ended up getting saved, after trying over a dozen times to save it! I hit refresh, but this forum has some token that makes that less likely to work, so I go to the previous screen to repost, but this time it failed.

        Yeah, you and I agree with all you said except ONE point! I don't even have the opportunity MY parents did! With THEM, highschool was better and carried more weight, college was better and cheaper, there were fewer regulations, lower taxes, and less inflation

        I often break down classes to three parts because the middle class goes from levels that ALMOST seem like they are poor, to levels that are quite high. The upper level goes from levels where they only have enough to take nice trips to cases that make one wonder why they even want another penny. Of course, the poor go from abject poverty that would be a major health concern for others if the government didn't step in to almost middle class.

        IWICSM!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Sal, random body and car searches? I have never heard of that. Unless it is a high security government facility... ? WTH? I bet PTF Manning, the military man who was accused of espionage when he gave information to Julien Assange wasn't subjected to that type of "security".
    I've never heard of it either. I was shocked. They got a very audible "What the f*** is this?" out of me when I read it. Top security position? LOL - not even close. And the crux was that there was nothing around that I COULD steal unless I got a couple of guys to help me haul something out to my rig, if it would fit. It wasn't one whit about security - it was complete dominance and slaving tactics. Can you imagine standing there letting someone run their hands up and down you through force when nothing has even been stolen?

    It used to be when you worked for a company they paid you for an agreed upon hours of work. Now they think if they throw you minimum wage that they own your whole body and life lock stock and barrel. I don't play that game. If you are paying me x amount of dollars for x amount of hours, that's where I stop and that is where your control stops - and you leave your hands off me on your clock unless I sign a document that has being molested is part of the job description. That contract I tore up said exactly that much to me. I never signed that sheet - I'd signed a few in front of it -- and when I hit that they lost all the info I had down. I'm still so furious over that I can't see straight. I might end up calling the board of labor and seeing if that was even legal. That company has people stupid enough to work for them.

    So frankly - by giving up, I don't mean I won't protect myself and what's mine - I just am done wasting my time trying to help and protect the rights of human cattle that don't give a damn about their own butts. Sorry - in this country, that kind of ignorance and sheer stupidity is a choice.

    There was an article written by a scientist somewhere awhile back that said that humans are starting to evolve into two separate species - one more intelligent and well built - and the other more squat and less intelligent. I took the article as a little tongue and cheek when I read it........but after watching people for awhile I'm starting to think he hit the nail on the head.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      <snip>
      There was an article written by a scientist somewhere awhile back that said that humans are starting to evolve into two separate species - one more intelligent and well built - and the other more squat and less intelligent. I took the article as a little tongue and cheek when I read it........but after watching people for awhile I'm starting to think he hit the nail on the head.

      Yep...H.G. Wells was too much, huh?
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    • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
      [QUOTE=HeySal;4529754]I've never heard of it either. I was shocked.

      Gotta admit, I would have used the same words, WTF?

      Now that you mention it would have taken a couple of guys to help you haul something off, it is even more ridiculous than it was the first time I read it.

      And no, I cannot imagine someone doing a body search on me for a job? H*ll no.

      Good for you! Tearing up that contract and taking the stance you did. Bravo.

      I hear ya about the wasting time trying to help and protect the rights of human cattle that don't give a damn. I finally had to set some limits for my foreclosure fighting. When I care more than they do, it's over. I don't help anymore.

      No doubt about it, your statement about the two separate species can be used as an analogy to the ones who are willing to DO something as opposed to the arm chair quarterbacks.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        [quote=Lori Kelly;4529907]
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I've never heard of it either. I was shocked.

        Gotta admit, I would have used the same words, WTF?

        Now that you mention it would have taken a couple of guys to help you haul something off, it is even more ridiculous than it was the first time I read it.

        And no, I cannot imagine someone doing a body search on me for a job? H*ll no.

        Good for you! Tearing up that contract and taking the stance you did. Bravo.

        I hear ya about the wasting time trying to help and protect the rights of human cattle that don't give a damn. I finally had to set some limits for my foreclosure fighting. When I care more than they do, it's over. I don't help anymore.

        No doubt about it, your statement about the two separate species can be used as an analogy to the ones who are willing to DO something as opposed to the arm chair quarterbacks.
        I *****NEVER***** had to have a drug test, etc..., until about 5 years ago. I went WAY out of my way to take the stupid drug test, and it never went further. THEN, a year ago, I had to have a credit report, police report, and DRUG TEST! Not only THAT, but they have ALL their employees(I was a sub contractor) have a drug test EVERY six months! I got a job because some earlier hire ended up CONVICTED OF SELLING DRUGS! INCREDIBLE, he STILL went through the motions!

        Any YEAH, it is senseless trying to fight a forclosure if the mortgagee isn't enthusiastic. They have to make decisions that provide for that mortgage. If they don't, they may lose that home.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Lori,

    The nasty secret is that banks DON'T have to pay for mortgages! FHLM(aka freddie mac) paid for my mortgage! Wells fargo collects the money, and merely pays the premium! If I should fail to pay, freddie mac guarantees the investors that buy the bonds.

    Banks are really nothing more than retailers! So what about money and normal short term loans? Well, have yu heard of the FED FUNDS RATE? For longer things, there are bonds. They even have things that basically monetize parts or collections of the other things. NO WONDER why switzerland broke 400+ year old laws to stay in the game!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Lori,

      The nasty secret is that banks DON'T have to pay for mortgages! FHLM(aka freddie mac) paid for my mortgage! Wells fargo collects the money, and merely pays the premium! If I should fail to pay, freddie mac guarantees the investors that buy the bonds.

      Banks are really nothing more than retailers! So what about money and normal short term loans? Well, have yu heard of the FED FUNDS RATE? For longer things, there are bonds. They even have things that basically monetize parts or collections of the other things. NO WONDER why switzerland broke 400+ year old laws to stay in the game!

      Steve
      Tell me about. A bankster is a DEBT COLLECTOR.

      Thanks to securitization, you do NOT KNOW who owns your loan.

      Oh, I "unfortunately" know many secrets.

      Are you ready for this one?

      You go to get your mortgage, from let's say Wells Fraudgo.

      Your FICO sucks, so does your history but hey, WF (not warrior forum) is more than willing to give you a loan. Why? You have a pulse.

      So what does Wells Fraudgo (and the TBTF) do? Why they take out insurance against those shi**y loans. They know damn good and well with a FICO score of X, an income of X, and a predatory loan of a pick a pay or ARM, you WILL default. So, they take out insurance.

      Wait.... There's more.

      Many, many loans are guaranteed by the government. Fannie, Freddie.

      Steve, not only does Wells Fraudgo get to collect, it collects (1) on the insurance it bought because it knew damn good and well no way could you make the payment when the ARM or other predatory variety loan adjusted, but (2) the loan is also guaranteed by the government, and when I say government, I mean you and me, and the US taxpayers.

      And people don't understand the foreclosure business is lucrative? I could go on and on, but no doubt, the foreclosure business is most definitely lucrative. If you want details, let me know.

      Anyone facing foreclosure or having a hardship with their mortgage? PM me. I'll do what I can to help you. FREE. No BS, Free. It's what I do in my "spare" time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    I know what you mean, Steve.

    I don't have the opportunity my parents had either. Had my dad been the type who would have busted his a** for a gold watch at retirement, then I might have followed the same path.

    However, I am extremely thankful he was an entrepreneur and I have inherited or taken on that trait.

    California was, at one point, a great place to grow up. College was virtually free. Someone, won't mention who, will have no part of that low to no cost education.

    To end on a positive note:

    I am an optimistic by design. I choose to be optimistic.
    I see the good in people until they prove otherwise.

    As I get older (close to 50 now), I feel a strong desire to help the middle class. As an entrepreneur, I accept failure and some of my businesses have failed. Other businesses have been extremely successful.

    The failures give me no cause to give up and I will not give up. Never.

    I have a strong desire to help others achieve success. Sort of a peculiar, if you will, I feel a calling to create jobs or at least share my knowledge to help people achieve success.

    I thought about this a lot today, and I thank Sal for creating a thought provoking thread.

    Perseverance is crucial.

    Although this may not seem an atypical concept of perseverance, it hits home with me.

    When I was about 8 years old, I went water skiing with my family, the normal family weekending outing on Lake Mead.

    My Dad asked me if I wanted to try one ski.

    I was terrified. Sure, I had master two skis, but one? Yikes! I was skiing on two skis for sometime and actually pretty good for a little tyke.

    My Dad, sensing my inhibitions, offered to ski with me. Me, being on two skis, him, on one ski of course since he was an incredibly awesome water skiing offered to help me out.

    My Dad tells me he will ski with me. He will ski, and help me drop one of the skis.

    He holds the back of my bright orange life jacket and tells me to drop a ski.

    Totally scared out of my mind, when he tells me to drop one ski, I say No! No! No!

    He tells me, "Drop that damn ski."

    I did.

    And what do you know? I was skiing on one ski. And good too.

    He knew my abilities better than I did. He believed in me.

    At the time, I didn't believe in me.

    Moral of the story: A bit of self promotion - I could ski like no one else I ever met on Lake Mead. I could take the turns with one of my shoulders touching the shimmering glass of the beautiful water on Lake Mead, and jump the wake, clearing it by several feet.

    What did this teach me: ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. Do not give into your fears. Keep that "can-do" attitude and you will have success.

    I can do ANYTHING I set my mind to.

    And so can you.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

      I know what you mean, Steve.

      I don't have the opportunity my parents had either. Had my dad been the type who would have busted his a** for a gold watch at retirement, then I might have followed the same path.

      However, I am extremely thankful he was an entrepreneur and I have inherited or taken on that trait.

      California was, at one point, a great place to grow up. College was virtually free. Someone, won't mention who, will have no part of that low to no cost education.

      To end on a positive note:

      I am an optimistic by design. I choose to be optimistic.
      I see the good in people until they prove otherwise.

      As I get older (close to 50 now), I feel a strong desire to help the middle class. As an entrepreneur, I accept failure and some of my businesses have failed. Other businesses have been extremely successful.

      The failures give me no cause to give up and I will not give up. Never.

      I have a strong desire to help others achieve success. Sort of a peculiar, if you will, I feel a calling to create jobs or at least share my knowledge to help people achieve success.

      I thought about this a lot today, and I thank Sal for creating a thought provoking thread.

      Perseverance is crucial.

      Although this may not seem an atypical concept of perseverance, it hits home with me.

      When I was about 8 years old, I went water skiing with my family, the normal family weekending outing on Lake Mead.

      My Dad asked me if I wanted to try one ski.

      I was terrified. Sure, I had master two skis, but one? Yikes! I was skiing on two skis for sometime and actually pretty good for a little tyke.

      My Dad, sensing my inhibitions, offered to ski with me. Me, being on two skis, him, on one ski of course since he was an incredibly awesome water skiing offered to help me out.

      My Dad tells me he will ski with me. He will ski, and help me drop one of the skis.

      He holds the back of my bright orange life jacket and tells me to drop a ski.

      Totally scared out of my mind, when he tells me to drop one ski, I say No! No! No!

      He tells me, "Drop that damn ski."

      I did.

      And what do you know? I was skiing on one ski. And good too.

      He knew my abilities better than I did. He believed in me.

      At the time, I didn't believe in me.

      Moral of the story: A bit of self promotion - I could ski like no one else I ever met on Lake Mead. I could take the turns with one of my shoulders touching the shimmering glass of the beautiful water on Lake Mead, and jump the wake, clearing it by several feet.

      What did this teach me: ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. Do not give into your fears. Keep that "can-do" attitude and you will have success.

      I can do ANYTHING I set my mind to.

      And so can you.
      Great story. Yeah, I have had similar things. I USED to be optimistic. Not any more. I used to constantly trun the other cheek. Not any more. f you did all you claim, GREAT! I am SERIOUSLY happy for you. I got burned too many times.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Some people look at optimism funny. They think if you see anything negative, you are a pessimist. So they allow things to cave in around them and just continue to think they will get better on their own.

    I see optimism is seeing the negative around you for what it is and being able to maneuver around it. Like quicksand - it's scary, but as long as you stay out of the stuff, you aren't gonna sink.

    Financial institutions - all seem to be one thing at the very root, eh? They aren't stupid, they know they are getting every damned cent we have. People get the mortgage and put all their money into it - then the economy tanks and people renig on the mortgage (bank's already got all their money) they get the property back - they get insurance - they get bailed out (The rest of our money that goes to them via gov). They sell the property again. Gov gets taxes, bank gets owners money - someone at the top causes us to tank again and it's a cycle they get to sell the house again later and everyone has a lot more money........except the middle class.

    They've been bleeding us out for a couple of decades now. They're doing a good job, too. If the gov wants to give another bailout - they will. They had a furious amount of people writing and saying NO bailout. The response was the largest ever and it was negative. But....they don't represent us anymore, so they did it anyway -- and they will do it again as soon as it's convenient.

    Know what else is spooky? That law they wrote in 1917 that said we can't own gold? Well it was supposed to have been rescinded after the war or something...can't remember when, but it was supposed to be a killed law. It wasn't. It was only suspended. That means with gold going sky high and everyone sinking their funds into gold, all that the gov has to do is reactivate the bill. Boom, just like that. No congress sessions, no voting, no nothing. Just like that. Pull it out of suspension and take everything anyone has sunk into that metal and give them "USD" for it -- which will be totally worthless at the time they take the law out of suspension. When the USD tanks - nobody in the US will own gold but our Pervert uncle. I don't think the paper they make the money with is edible either, so it won't even be good for that.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Some people look at optimism funny. They think if you see anything negative, you are a pessimist. So they allow things to cave in around them and just continue to think they will get better on their own.

      I see optimism is seeing the negative around you for what it is and being able to maneuver around it. Like quicksand - it's scary, but as long as you stay out of the stuff, you aren't gonna sink.

      Financial institutions - all seem to be one thing at the very root, eh? They aren't stupid, they know they are getting every damned cent we have. People get the mortgage and put all their money into it - then the economy tanks and people renig on the mortgage (bank's already got all their money) they get the property back - they get insurance - they get bailed out (The rest of our money that goes to them via gov). They sell the property again. Gov gets taxes, bank gets owners money - someone at the top causes us to tank again and it's a cycle they get to sell the house again later and everyone has a lot more money........except the middle class.

      They've been bleeding us out for a couple of decades now. They're doing a good job, too. If the gov wants to give another bailout - they will. They had a furious amount of people writing and saying NO bailout. The response was the largest ever and it was negative. But....they don't represent us anymore, so they did it anyway -- and they will do it again as soon as it's convenient.

      Know what else is spooky? That law they wrote in 1917 that said we can't own gold? Well it was supposed to have been rescinded after the war or something...can't remember when, but it was supposed to be a killed law. It wasn't. It was only suspended. That means with gold going sky high and everyone sinking their funds into gold, all that the gov has to do is reactivate the bill. Boom, just like that. No congress sessions, no voting, no nothing. Just like that. Pull it out of suspension and take everything anyone has sunk into that metal and give them "USD" for it -- which will be totally worthless at the time they take the law out of suspension. When the USD tanks - nobody in the US will own gold but our Pervert uncle. I don't think the paper they make the money with is edible either, so it won't even be good for that.
      If they DO buy gold, it will be at the THEN official price. Last I knew it was only like $35! I hope you are wrong, but there are other laws that WERE passed by congress, RECENTLY, that allow it ANYWAY! IWICSM!

      As for pessimism? Basically, I have this belief that most people are either inherently evil or stupid and, either way, I try to be careful!

      My father JUST THIS MORNING called me. To see how I was doing. He told me of some idiot that once spoke somewhere and said that EVERYTHING anyone does is for SELFISH reasons! One example is that if you go into the ocean to save your child it is NOT to save the child, but avoid the social backlash if you don't. MAN! One would hope that you have a physical and emotional attachment to your child and have a relationship a bit better than a close friend so that you really WANT to save the kid even if you risk your own life in the process. It should be the same with a friend. I forget how the subject came up, though I was talking about my latest fight with the COS! I told them I will tell some of their famous members about their ations if they send me one more piece of mail.

      I will NEVER forget the IDIOT that gathered with people on the blocks around my house after the 1994 earthquake, and said he would get some candles to light! BUILDINGS WERE DAMAGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would be a MIRACLE if there weren't gas leaks! I RAN!

      I will NEVER forget the IDIOT that took some HEAVY(like maybe 50 pound) ornaments off an apartment building and left them on her third floor terrace railing to clean, BEFORE the earthquake! During the earthquake, they FLEW off and TOTALLED a car! Had a person walked on the sidewalk at that time, their head could have been split open, and they would be DEAD!

      Or how about the IDIOT that asked us to risk our lives to help him move? I thought he was packed, in a yellow tagged place, reasonably intelligent, and not a moron, suicidal, or homocidal. He was ALL THREE! While we were in his RED TAGGED place, he didn't even try to pack, but jumped on one side of the room to show us how weak the rest was. I won't even repeat the rest, since I was an idiot to trust him anymore after that. I decided to try to walk the 1.5 miles back to my car! I wrote him off as a friend. I DON'T need friends like that. I let him strand me, I guess so I didn't have to try to follow him to his home. this WAS a last minute plan. He is lucky he didn't kill TWO of his friends, AND himself! Hell, if he survived, he could have been up on murder charges.

      Sometimes a person on a team I was on INSISTED on doing something I KNEW wouldn't work, and just wouldn't listen! Sometimes they were "trying to help me". I had to stand back and watch in HORROR as work disappeared or precious time slipped by.

      As for ME? I have done enough that I earlier thought I couldn't that, within reason, I WILL push myself, and know I can do it. I will avoid that qucksand BUT, if I get in it, calmly look for a way out. So YEAH, I am optimistic about MYSELF in many areas. I DO know my limitations, so some things I will not try without aid of some sort. But about things in GENERAL? Relying on strangers or those I KNOW are bad? FORGET IT!

      Do I make mistakes? YEAH, OF COURSE! But they aren't THIS common or striking. And I would NOT ask friends to help me pack, let alone in a red tagged building! Red tagged means structurally unsafe, likely to collapse, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY and ABANDON ALL BELONGINGS!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        As for pessimism? Basically, I have this belief that most people are either inherently evil or stupid and, either way, I try to be careful!
        About a week ago I pointed out how you thought people were stupid. You denied it and rambled on about how you said one guy was smart....Now you say most people are stupid (or evil).

        Your opinion of others is very sad and probably explains why you have so many bad days.
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  • Profile picture of the author chana ve
    The would have happened if Vie hadn't had been that sharp? Stu wasn't going to tell me because it would have been a breech of confidentiality.The government looked the other way as it filled its coffers with promises of campaign contributions from those who stood to make the most money during the housing boom.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Let's all chip in and buy our own island somewhere.

    We can then declare ourselves a sovereign nation and
    get millions in aid from the U.S.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      Let's all chip in and buy our own island somewhere.

      We can then declare ourselves a sovereign nation and
      get millions in aid from the U.S.

      Then you might as well call it Halliburton Isle from the get go...:p

      I've said for years, the same thing, except my Island declares war and then 1/2 hour later surrenders.

      Everyone should be 'lucky' enough to lose a war to the U.S..

      Business investment, medicine, charity, and big bucks...

      Big bucks...
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

        Then you might as well call it Halliburton Isle from the get go...:p

        I've said for years, the same thing, except my Island declares war and then 1/2 hour later surrenders.

        Everyone should be 'lucky' enough to lose a war to the U.S..


        Business investment, medicine, charity, and big bucks...

        Big bucks...
        Key West has done it already
        Conch Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        April 23, 1982.
        The invasion of 1995 had the opposite effect with the U.S. surrendering to the Conch Republic.

        On September 20, 1995, it was reported that the 478th Civil Affairs Battalion of the United States Army Reserve was to conduct a training exercise simulating an invasion of a foreign island. They were to land on Key West and conduct affairs as if the islanders were foreign. However, no one from the 478th notified Conch officials of the exercise.
        Seeing another chance at publicity, Wardlow and the forces behind the 1982 Conch Republic secession mobilized the island for a full-scale war (in the Conch Republic, this involves firing water cannons from fireboats and hitting people with stale Cuban bread), and protested to the Department of Defense for arranging this exercise without consulting the City of Key West. The leaders of the 478th issued an apology the next day, saying they "in no way meant to challenge or impugn the sovereignty of the Conch Republic", and submitted to a surrender ceremony on September 22
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        • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          Key West has done it already
          Conch Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          April 23, 1982.
          The invasion of 1995 had the opposite effect with the U.S. surrendering to the Conch Republic.

          That's funny as can be...now you mention that I was in the military at that time and vaguely remember the running gag of invading Key West.

          I'm pretty sure the general consensus was "cool"

          Didn't last long as we had plenty of 'real' problems come up in '83....after the Russians shot down a Korean air flight...(I went into that on another thread)

          "Throw stale Cuban bread" ...rofl...

          they must have some pretty good 'stuff' down there...
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

            That's funny as can be...now you mention that I was in the military at that time and vaguely remember the running gag of invading Key West.

            I'm pretty sure the general consensus was "cool"

            Didn't last long as we had plenty of 'real' problems come up in '83....after the Russians shot down a Korean air flight...(I went into that on another thread)

            "Throw stale Cuban bread" ...rofl...

            they must have some pretty good 'stuff' down there...
            Jim if you have never been to Key West, GO!
            Leave the kids home though
            It's the only place on the east coast that I dream of moving to.
            It's also the only place on the east coast where I need adult supervision 24/7
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            You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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            • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

              Jim if you have never been to Key West, GO!
              Leave the kids home though
              It's the only place on the east coast that I dream of moving to.
              It's also the only place on the east coast where I need adult supervision 24/7

              Nope never been there.

              I was once on a bus going to a school in Texas, and there was a small group of guy's and gals that were going all the way down to the last Island.
              They almost had me talked into it...in those day's (pre-kids) it wouldn't have been unusual for me to 'piss off' somewhere at the spur of the moment.
              Went to school instead.

              Pathetic story, but as close as I ever came to going down there.

              If you say you would need "adult supervision"...

              I can guarantee that I would too...:p


              Edit: by the way I bookmarked that Wiki page...I never really heard the whole story.

              Anyone with that sense of humor has got to be allright.
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      • Profile picture of the author lcombs
        Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

        Then you might as well call it Halliburton Isle from the get go...:p

        I've said for years, the same thing, except my Island declares war and then 1/2 hour later surrenders.

        Everyone should be 'lucky' enough to lose a war to the U.S..

        Business investment, medicine, charity, and big bucks...

        Big bucks...
        Have you ever seen "The Mouse That Roared" with Peter
        Sellers?

        That's exactly what it's about.
        Except, something goes wrong, (right), and they accidently capture a "Doomsday" bomb and win the war.
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        • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
          Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

          Have you ever seen "The Mouse That Roared" with Peter
          Sellers?

          That's exactly what it's about.
          Except, something goes wrong, (right), and they accidently capture a "Doomsday" bomb and win the war.

          I've heard of the movie, but I've never seen it.

          Surprising, because I am a Peter Sellers fan.

          I'll have to rent it...

          Thanks
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Jim when I was last in Key West (03) my daughter and boy friend where made as heck because they had to be responsible and keep me in line (so they thought). The locals thought I was a local
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            Getting old ain't for sissy's
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          • Profile picture of the author lcombs
            Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

            I've heard of the movie, but I've never seen it.

            Surprising, because I am a Peter Sellers fan.

            I'll have to rent it...

            Thanks
            By all means, if you're a Peter Sellers fan, it's a must see.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

        Then you might as well call it Halliburton Isle from the get go...:p

        I've said for years, the same thing, except my Island declares war and then 1/2 hour later surrenders.

        Everyone should be 'lucky' enough to lose a war to the U.S..

        Business investment, medicine, charity, and big bucks...

        Big bucks...
        Who knows? I mean the US has gotten millions from me in the name of general security, infrastructure, and even MY security. NOW, it looks like they will cheat on the latter, and they certainly haven't done well on the former. But I don't think the US would pay unless they create damage. Also, unless it is traditional, a habitat, or the people well... I don't think they would consider it.

        And kurt. I never said I felt all were bright and I once had a BETTER opinion. It is interesting that you should bring up a week ago. Around that time, there was a post that the US post office sucked! I was one of a few that agreed. One other was KIMw, who actually WORKED there! Well, I HAD to use them to ship out my mother's cremains! Basically the funeral home recommended that, and they are the only ones that would accept them. I got up EARLY on monday to ship them out. OK, I admit it, I was tired, and tried to get the minutia all correct, making sure I had everything, had the right address,, etc... Of course, having not done this before, I couldn't be sure how the tracking worked anyway. Yesterday, her cousin called to say they didn't get the cremains! I checked! The USPS official position right now is that they LOST HER! You should have heard the speech I got on monday about how it would quickly get there, everyone had to sign for it, it would always be held in someone's hands, etc.... They won't help until tomorrow!

        This might be a joke, I wish I could be sure. But I have seen enough people like this, though some WEREN'T american. I SUSPECT they cherry picked and/or used plants, but it would be better if I KNEW it! But videos like the following one don't help to change my opinion of the average intelligence:
        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          This might be a joke, I wish I could be sure. But I have seen enough people like this, though some WEREN'T american. I SUSPECT they cherry picked and/or used plants, but it would be better if I KNEW it! But videos like the following one don't help to change my opinion of the average intelligence: Americans are NOT stupid - WITH SUBTITLES - YouTube

          Steve
          Steve, if you interview enough people you'll find a percentage that don't pay attention to the world at large. You edit out the intelligent replies and string the dumb replies together and bingo, you make the population at large look stupid ... especially to those who don't think critically.

          I've been to Spain, Greece, Switzerland, Israel, Italy, Sicily, Palma de Mallorca, the Virgin Islands, the Bahamas, France and a few other countries, and you could make a video like this about any of them.
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          • Profile picture of the author waterotter
            [QUOTE
            I've been to Spain, Greece, Switzerland, Israel, Italy, Sicily, Palma de Mallorca, the Virgin Islands, the Bahamas, France and a few other countries, and you could make a video like this about any of them.[/QUOTE]

            Dennis, I gotta ask - when the heck are you coming to Canada?
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            • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
              Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

              [QUOTE
              I've been to Spain, Greece, Switzerland, Israel, Italy, Sicily, Palma de Mallorca, the Virgin Islands, the Bahamas, France and a few other countries, and you could make a video like this about any of them.

              Dennis, I gotta ask - when the heck are you coming to Canada?

              Where's that?....

              You mean Wisconsin isn't a suburb of Canada?
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by waterotter View Post


              Dennis, I gotta ask - when the heck are you coming to Canada?
              Actually, my wife and I honeymooned in Canada. Thunder Bay and the surrounding area, to be precise. Canada was part of the "a few other countries" that I mentioned. I just didn't want to infer my neighbors to the north had their share of dummies, too. I like you guys, you're good neighbors!

              @ Jim, I think it's the other way around. Canada is a suburb of Wisconsin. You know what they say -- all roads lead to Wisconsin. ...or was it Rome?
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              • Profile picture of the author waterotter
                [QUOTE=Dennis Gaskill;4563074]Actually, my wife and I honeymooned in Canada. Thunder Bay and the surrounding area, to be precise. Canada was part of the "a few other countries" that I mentioned. I just didn't want to infer my neighbors to the north had their share of dummies, too. I like you guys, you're good neighbors!

                Good choice Dennis - we love you as neighbors also. Next time you visit, be sure to stop in for a visit.

                Still would like to know the reasoning behind the "For Dummies" series. Just not quite sure who they were marketing those to!
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    lcombs,

    I would LOVE to do that, but one wonders if you could now. SOME have tried to CREATE islands.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Tony Blair the skater, funny as ****. In defence of America though, you get the same thick as pig **** knuckleheads in every country.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Tony Blair the skater, funny as ****. In defence of America though, you get the same thick as pig **** knuckleheads in every country.
      Yeah, I know.

      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Steve, if you interview enough people you'll find a percentage that don't pay attention to the world at large. You edit out the intelligent replies and string the dumb replies together and bingo, you make the population at large look stupid ... especially to those who don't think critically.
      YEP, I even said that some I knew like that WEREN'T Americans, and that some might have been plants(People HIRED to act as stupid Americans) and Cherry picked(Maybe they got most questions right, and only the REALLY bad responses were shown)

      Still, it is AMAZING! With all the history, etc.... you would think that someone would know about the Israelis, or the Muslims, or the fact that we lost vietnam. They should know at least some long time allies, etc... They should know the enemies that are now considered allies, at least the old and big ones. They should know the major currencies! I mean to tell you the truth, for a time, I didn't know if Britain was using the Euro, or still using the Pound, but at least I knew it was one or the other. Tony blair was one that like margaret thatcher became well known in the US, reported in the news, etc... Usually I don't follow things like THAT so closely, so I could excuse younger people, like less than 25, from knowing THAT. And triangles? Isn't that like preschool or kindergarten? And it DOES say three angles, so logically, it has 3 sides. I mean SQUARE is harder, since the name doesn't give any clues! And latin america? Doesn't EVERYONE know that latin is all but dead? Again though, people here should know that.

      That one with the U, I can only hope that they subconciously excluded THIS country. But the STATE UTAH, Yugoslavia, and UTOPIA(Meaning NO PLACE, often used to mean paradise)? CUTE! 8-(

      Still, as I said, it doesn't help!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    True enough, Steve. It just shows you how small some people's world is, I guess. Who knows, maybe it's better that way, from a personal standpoint that is.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Maybe there should be a special word for the OT crowd?

    Moriuses? Genirons? Genrods?

    Speaking of whines.........

    I had the girls over the other afternoon. I had left the bottle of champagne I'd gotten on the counter. One of the women picked it up and said "Wow, who got you this?" I told her "well, actually, I got that for my husband." She said "good year, great brand, very spendy....Nice." I Said "Yeah - I definitely got the better end of that trade.

    Badda bing.

    I little comic relief...........
    Very little.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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