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Greece, YIKES!

by seasoned
21 replies
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MORE riots! Apparently people are trying to sell gold to get money to buy food, but gold buyers are scarce, since they are trying to sell gold, because of the high cost.

Steve
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I just went shopping today and from the prices I saw I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same here soon. People who can no longer afford to eat aren't going to be nice about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    It's getting really crazy over there.

    TL
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    What are they trying to sell gold for... market?
    Is there a particular link story?

    22% pay cut across the board is a big chunk of change...(no pun intended)

    India will buy all the gold they have...they can't get enough of that stuff...
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      What are they trying to sell gold for... market?
      Is there a particular link story?

      22% pay cut across the board is a big chunk of change...(no pun intended)

      India will buy all the gold they have...they can't get enough of that stuff...
      India CAN'T buy it! They want EUROS NOW, not rupees in the future.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        India CAN'T buy it! They want EUROS NOW, not rupees in the future.
        They are the ones with the money to invest. The quote is about their 2009 purchase of 200 metric tons of gold from the IMF.

        Gold prices surged to a new high Tuesday on news that India's central bank bought US$6.7 billion worth of gold from the International Monetary Fund.
        Story here. India buys 200 tonnes of gold at US$6.7b, pushes price to new high

        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        In 1998, when S Korea was engulfed in a similar crisis. Their citizens actually sold gold and donated the proceeds to the government to replenish its treasury. Fancy anybody else doing this in other countries.
        It is unusual, but such a nice attitude. Another country where that could happen would be Japan.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    In 1998, when S Korea was engulfed in a similar crisis. Their citizens actually sold gold and donated the proceeds to the government to replenish its treasury. Fancy anybody else doing this in other countries.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      In 1998, when S Korea was engulfed in a similar crisis. Their citizens actually sold gold and donated the proceeds to the government to replenish its treasury. Fancy anybody else doing this in other countries.

      That is truly amazing.

      Please explain in more detail if you have the time.


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        That is truly amazing.

        Please explain in more detail if you have the time.


        TL
        Here is a link to that story.

        BBC News | Analysis | Koreans give up their gold to help their country

        South Korea has exported the first shipment of 300 kilograms of gold collected in a public campaign to help the country out of its economic crisis. The nationwide campaign - led by large business groups including Daewoo, Samsung and Hyundai - began on January 5, and involved ordinary Koreans donating personal gold treasures, which have been melted down into ingots ready for sale on the international markets

        Almost every country other than China in Asia were severely affected in 1998. Property prices fell by 70% in Hong Kong within a few short years and almost everybody had their salaries. Yet there were very few riots or demonstrations reported in Asia.

        The crisis quickly engulfed other emerging markets in Eastern Europe and Latin America as well. But all learnt lessons in 1998 and put their public finances in order. So when the 2008 financial crisis came, the emerging markets are not as severely affected as developed countries and recovered much faster.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

          Here is a link to that story.

          BBC News | Analysis | Koreans give up their gold to help their country

          South Korea has exported the first shipment of 300 kilograms of gold collected in a public campaign to help the country out of its economic crisis. The nationwide campaign - led by large business groups including Daewoo, Samsung and Hyundai - began on January 5, and involved ordinary Koreans donating personal gold treasures, which have been melted down into ingots ready for sale on the international markets

          Almost every country other than China in Asia were severely affected in 1998. Property prices fell by 70% in Hong Kong within a few short years and almost everybody had their salaries. Yet there were very few riots or demonstrations reported in Asia.

          The crisis quickly engulfed other emerging markets in Eastern Europe and Latin America as well. But all learnt lessons in 1998 and put their public finances in order. So when the 2008 financial crisis came, the emerging markets are not as severely affected as developed countries and recovered much faster.
          Well, that is kind of vague. Daewoo, Samsung, and Hyundai are ******HUGE****** companies! Most Americans THINK they realize it, and will say they are HUGE, but I said ******HUGE******! They are all huge multinational companies that have been so for DECADES. Most of their life, in the US, has been HIDDEN! But I saw the insides of so many gadgets, and remember when the koreans revealed how they had been here so long in secret. A lot of korean stuff was passed off as japanese! They are all KOREAN! Although they certainly make most of their money abroad, they have a reason to really support korea. And south korea probably has a decent government that put the money to good use, ESPECIALLY since NORTH korea certainly DOESN'T!

          Heck, you never know! One company is fairly big, makes tractors, etc... Well, they tried to undercut some companies, and were called Goldstar. Apparently, they wanted to start fresh. They renamed themselves as Lucky Goldstar. But most Americans, and even their website, simply call them LG!

          As for the 2008 deal? There are basically FIVE ways to be affected:

          1. Direct Investment
          2. Investment in the BASIS of that investment.
          3. Affects on the economy of one affected
          4. Relief from one affected by an affected economy.
          5. Aid from one affected by an affected economy.

          In the US, people are hit with as many as 4-5 of those. One area in iceland was hit bad ONLY by 2! (#1 because the government invested, and #3 because they had to change things to survive that affected the citizens). MOST citizens would not have been affected by #1, and only the VERY rich could even be affected by #2. And I don't believe they get aid or relief, so 4 and 5 are out. A very isolated nation might not be affected AT ALL!

          Haiti MIGHT be affected because of #4 and #5, and possibly #3, because people affected in places like the US are less likely to be able to give them relief. As for latin America? News to me. As I recall, they weren't doing any better.

          The primary reason that it spread everywhere was because it was HUGE and governments paid in #1. Due to the idea of factored fiat money, it created problem #3 which affected anything touching that nation. Places like Greece promised a lot, and it played a huge part in their downfall, but the tightening of credit caused by those affected certainly made it happen NOW rather than years down the road.

          SO, with GREECE, investment hurt the economy somewhere, people started losing money, people got laid off, and they had to DRAW from the government that was ALREADY overextended and couldn't borrow, so changes were made that may have caused ANOTHER cycle, etc.... You can see how it can feed on itself.

          It is like you have a few holes in a boat, but a pump pumps the water out faster, so the boat is OK. Credit drying up is like slowing down the pump. More people are pulled into the boat, and each drills a little hole, because THEIR credit has dried up, and they are now drawing from the government. Eventually, the boat just SINKS!

          BTW 300KG=10345oz That is worth less than $186,210,000USD. That sounds like a lot, but for them it is literally a DROP IN THE BUCKET! OH, it is a huge amount. If I had that much, I could start a nice company, hire many, and be SET FOR LIFE! But for THEM? They may not even miss it!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            Well, that is kind of vague. Daewoo, Samsung, and Hyundai are ******HUGE****** companies! Most Americans THINK they realize it, and will say they are HUGE, but I said ******HUGE******! They are all huge multinational companies that have been so for DECADES. Most of their life, in the US, has been HIDDEN! But I saw the insides of so many gadgets, and remember when the koreans revealed how they had been here so long in secret. A lot of korean stuff was passed off as japanese! They are all KOREAN! Although they certainly make most of their money abroad, they have a reason to really support korea. And south korea probably has a decent government that put the money to good use, ESPECIALLY since NORTH korea certainly DOESN'T!

            Heck, you never know! One company is fairly big, makes tractors, etc... Well, they tried to undercut some companies, and were called Goldstar. Apparently, they wanted to start fresh. They renamed themselves as Lucky Goldstar. But most Americans, and even their website, simply call them LG!

            As for the 2008 deal? There are basically FIVE ways to be affected:

            1. Direct Investment
            2. Investment in the BASIS of that investment.
            3. Affects on the economy of one affected
            4. Relief from one affected by an affected economy.
            5. Aid from one affected by an affected economy.

            In the US, people are hit with as many as 4-5 of those. One area in iceland was hit bad ONLY by 2! (#1 because the government invested, and #3 because they had to change things to survive that affected the citizens). MOST citizens would not have been affected by #1, and only the VERY rich could even be affected by #2. And I don't believe they get aid or relief, so 4 and 5 are out. A very isolated nation might not be affected AT ALL!

            Haiti MIGHT be affected because of #4 and #5, and possibly #3, because people affected in places like the US are less likely to be able to give them relief. As for latin America? News to me. As I recall, they weren't doing any better.

            The primary reason that it spread everywhere was because it was HUGE and governments paid in #1. Due to the idea of factored fiat money, it created problem #3 which affected anything touching that nation. Places like Greece promised a lot, and it played a huge part in their downfall, but the tightening of credit caused by those affected certainly made it happen NOW rather than years down the road.

            SO, with GREECE, investment hurt the economy somewhere, people started losing money, people got laid off, and they had to DRAW from the government that was ALREADY overextended and couldn't borrow, so changes were made that may have caused ANOTHER cycle, etc.... You can see how it can feed on itself.

            It is like you have a few holes in a boat, but a pump pumps the water out faster, so the boat is OK. Credit drying up is like slowing down the pump. More people are pulled into the boat, and each drills a little hole, because THEIR credit has dried up, and they are now drawing from the government. Eventually, the boat just SINKS!

            BTW 300KG=10345oz That is worth less than $186,210,000USD. That sounds like a lot, but for them it is literally a DROP IN THE BUCKET! OH, it is a huge amount. If I had that much, I could start a nice company, hire many, and be SET FOR LIFE! But for THEM? They may not even miss it!

            Steve
            The biggest effect was to get ordinary people to donate their jewelry and to promote national unity in the face of adversity. I saw lots of people queuing up to donate their jewelry on television.

            You can never expect the rich to donate everything. Otherwise you won't see the rich attending charity events or getting sponsor ships to raise money for charity.


            Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski View Post

            It is unusual, but such a nice attitude. Another country where that could happen would be Japan.
            I can definitely see this happening in Japan, but I would highly doubt this could happen in China .
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      In 1998, when S Korea was engulfed in a similar crisis. Their citizens actually sold gold and donated the proceeds to the government to replenish its treasury. Fancy anybody else doing this in other countries.
      Well, in SOME countries, the government STOLE the money! WHAT, you take your PERSONAL reserves and pay it to the thieves so that can flush THAT ALSO?

      In OTHERS, people got the government to promise them things. Wouldn't paying them $1 so they could pay you $.0001 ALSO be pretty stupid?

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Mega B
    Its not going to get any better out in Greece for many years,the trouble is they are a some whata corrupt society ie not paying true value taxes and they have had it good for such a long time.Coming into the EU means they had too comply with many financial criteria and this they could not do.

    Bailing out a country is fine but when they dont have the means too repay the debt they then come cap in hand asking for a further bailout to pay for the 1st one,i fully understand that if they are going through a hard time you make cut backs which are not popular but cutting some peoples salary by 25% and cutting back pensions as much as they have will only cause major riots in the future.

    My personal opinion is we would all be better off if they left the EU and went back as they had been years ago,they cannot comply with the criteria that is set down so let them leave with out dragging down all the other members.

    The EU on paper is a great thing with just the one currency but not all the economies are the same some are more buoyant than others,and this will always be a problem,I am not sure what the way forward is with this problem infact i think alot of people have no idea either.

    These are just my personal views but of course i could well be wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Ya know.... I'm a nice guy. Maybe a little TOO nice. I have NO police report. I have NEVER been justly sued. The one time I was sued, they basically stole $4000 from me because it threatened to force me to quit my job, etc...

    I have known some unsavory characters. Some I could have befriended, etc... But I didn't. I seriously DON'T know what I am going to do if/when it breaks out HERE. All I wanted was to live my life in peace.

    This whole world is getting to be like what I saw on bonanza a few days ago. Bonanza is about a bunch of nice guys that live on a ranch called the ponderosa. Of course, they keep having misunderstandings, and people give them a lot of grief!

    Well, on THIS episode, there was an american that was kidnapped as a child by some american indians, and finally left to find his father and do things "the white man's way"(That is the way some american indians referred to non indians, and really applied to BLACK americans as well). But he really knew NOTHING of american culture. Some American indians kept enemy kids and raised them as thier own.

    Well, there was this IDIOT that decided he could tweak the understanding of a deed so he could get access to some trees on the ponderosa. You could view him as the government if you wish. THE trees kept the water from flooding the ponderosa, and ALL knew this.

    The american indian LIKED the owners of the ponderosa. They were his friends, and were trying to help him. He saw the other guy as an enemy. Well, he went to the enemy and said PLEASE let them keep their land. If you hurt them, "I'LL KILL YOU". The other guy was killed by him. That is ALL he said, and they sentenced him to life. He ran away. The posse was out to kill him, and his CLOSEST friend tried to bring him back by gunpoint.

    They FOUGHT, and eventually the indian let slip what he didn't say at the trial. That enemy, being the coward he was, sicked his dog on the indian, to kill him. Being an indian, not here long, he had a knife and knew how to use it. He killed the dog. The enemy, realizing h was a dead duck, got his gun, aimed, but the indian already threw the knife killing the guy.

    I USUALLY feel like the cartwrites(that own the ponderosa). HERE, I feel a bit like the indian. He just wanted JUSTICE! He tried to fight the government(the enemy saying his TREES were more important than the family's life), and the government(judge) tries to lock him up.

    Did you know that a whole group of people in the military are now told that they must LIE, go against their jobs, and commit an unconstitutional act, or be THROWN IN JAIL for SEDITION? UNREAL!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author colzinfobiz
    I would love to see a prospering country like Germany do the bail out. It would be worth Germany's weight in GOLD.....
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by colzinfobiz View Post

      I would love to see a prospering country like Germany do the bail out. It would be worth Germany's weight in GOLD.....
      In a very real way....
      Great Britain
      Germany
      The US
      France
      Japan
      and some others HAVE been doing it.

      Maybe not with gold BUT, doing it with gold is really illegal and just DUMB! It's bad enough that they trade currency to keep the poorer nations afloat.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author MediaEncounterOmar
    This is what happens when your government causes a default.
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    • Profile picture of the author EddieC
      This what happens when people finally realize that they have been doped into being responsible for debts they dont owe....
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by EddieC View Post

        This what happens when people finally realize that they have been doped into being responsible for debts they dont owe....
        You have that BACKWARDS for the most part. A LOT of the people are ones that were TAKE TAKE TAKE the whole time, and WERE the reason for the debts. They weren't decent or held liable, so I will stop short of the word responsible. Still, many WERE the reason for the debts. That was true in Greece, Great Britain, AND the US!

        Steve
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