Absolutely Disgusting.

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The American public school system is a train wreck. Already, teachers have no autonomy in the classroom. Well-meaning legislation like that proposed will further erode teachers' authority. Two reasons you have people like those in the video in classrooms is because no one in his right mind will become a teacher and anyone with ability who is a teacher will get the hell out of public education.

Anyone who wants a decent education for their children should find decent private schools or home school.

I would agree if the legislation was simply about keeping teachers from properly disciplining a student. But this is about abhorrent behavior. It should not be tolerated. It's not tolerated when a student bullies another student. Teachers and aides should set examples.

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MikeAmbrosio

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The amount of bullying by teachers will increase with the legislation because every kid who gets a cross word from his teacher will consider himself bullied.

It's time we admitted that public education is a failed noble experiment and move on. There's no fixing it.

Sooo... what's the solution?

Meantime, I don't agree that autistic kids will suddenly start to cry "bully" whenever a teacher says the wrong thing. Like anything, there has to be checks and balances. A single piece of legislation won't fix it by itself but neither will closing your eyes.

I agree about the state of our public schools - considering what we put up with here in NY - but right now, it's what we got..

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TimPhelan

13 years ago

I see "Welcome to 3rd World Status" when looking at your solution. By the way Ken, did you attend public schools?

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If we'd end the public education disaster, I can see education co-ops forming among parents, online schools flourishing, private businesses paying for specialized training for the qualified, people taking the time to teach their children to read.

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SteveJohnson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I think a lot of us here are a product of our educational system,and to me that shows that it DID work in the past.

But it definitely is broken today.

It did, when it was focused on basic education and not sending every kid - whether he/she needs it or not - to college.

Originally Posted by ThomM

Sure it did, before the department of education was given any authority.
Back then we where taught what we needed to know to enter into the adult world. You got two choices in high school, College Prep or Business.
If you went college prep you took science, language, and math courses.
If you went Business you took accounting and business courses.
Now it's all standardized courses and standardized tests and if the students aren't standardized the school district doesn't get its govt. check.

Ain't that the truth

Where I lived, we had one more avenue: the trades. My high school had a wood shop, metal shop, an auto shop, and a class that built a house every year. Now? None of those - not one - exist. It could be, I suppose, because our wood shop teacher cut his thumb off on the table saw, but that's not the point

The KIDS learned shop safety from that incident!

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I see "Welcome to 3rd World Status" when looking at your solution. By the way Ken, did you attend public schools?

Agreed - just look at history. The U.S. was at the level of a 3rd world country before the advent of public education. All of our accomplishments can be laid at the feet of the hard-working experts in D.C. at the Dept of Education.

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KimW

13 years ago

This is about teachers that abuse kids that can't defend themselves,that behavior by them would not have gone unreported in a normal classroom.

But I agree the current educational system needs an overhaul.

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thunderbird

13 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

This is about teachers that abuse kids that can't defend themselves,that behavior by them would not have gone unreported in a normal classroom.

But I agree the current educational system needs an overhaul.

It is abhorrent when anyone in a vulnerable situation is abused, whether its autistic children, senior citizens, or anyone else. It should never be tolerated.

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KimW

13 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

It is abhorrent when anyone in a vulnerable situation is abused, whether its autistic children, senior citizens, or anyone else. It should never be tolerated.

T-Bird,
Did you read my first post?

"Since I believe the words "Kids being bullied" are overused when most of what is happening is just a part of growing up, I figured this was like that also."

Besides, I only said that the fact is kids in a normal classroom had the ability to report this behavior and the special ed kids did not. I did not say the behavior was acceptable in other situations.

Even the title of the thread shows my disdain.

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thunderbird 13 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

<snip>I did not say the behavior was acceptable in other situations.
<snip>

I didn't mean to imply that you did. I guess sometimes making a general statement can have a diluting effect on a specific issue, and I didn't intend to do that.
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MikeAmbrosio

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

No one is capable of caring for, let alone teaching, a roomful of autistic kids day in, day out, year after year, yet that's what the public demands. Legislation will do nothing but make the situation worse.

If they are not capable of teaching the kids day in and day out, then they don't need to be teaching. It's not about anything more than NOT treating kid with disabilities like trash. Hell, if I call you names here in this forum and you complain, there are consequences. There should be for teachers too. I would argue that NOT having serious consequences for abhorrent behavior is a big reason why the public schools are failing. Bad teachers don't worry about losing their jobs, so why should they care?

Edit: Just saw your post... I should be clear that I am NOT talking about educating the students. I am talking about punishment for teachers when they do something that warrants punishment and not sweeping it under the rug. Teaching is a whole different matter and I agree with you. WE are responsible. But part of that responsibility is to protect our kids from these bad teachers too.

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KimW

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

No one is capable of caring for, let alone teaching, a roomful of autistic kids day in, day out, year after year, yet that's what the public demands. Legislation will do nothing but make the situation worse.

Simple solution, if they can't do the job,get out. The legislation is based on not continuing to employ those caught abusing children.

If the father in this case had not "bugged" his own child this would have never come to light.

It also showed corruption in the school system when the IEP person tried to put all the blame on the parent. (caught on tape).

For the most part I am for less government not more, and I agree,there shouldn't be a need for legislation like this,the "right" thing that should have been done was immediate dismissal of all involved. But the fact that nothing was done to the individuals involved shows that,as you say the system is broken,and if it takes legislation to get the right thing done. I'll vote for it.

By the way, I had a child that was in IEP also.

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KimW

13 years ago

I think a lot of us here are a product of our educational system,and to me that shows that it DID work in the past.

But it definitely is broken today.

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ThomM 13 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I think a lot of us here are a product of our educational system,and to me that shows that it DID work in the past.

But it definitely is broken today.

Sure it did, before the department of education was given any authority.
Back then we where taught what we needed to know to enter into the adult world. You got two choices in high school, College Prep or Business.
If you went college prep you took science, language, and math courses.
If you went Business you took accounting and business courses.
Now it's all standardized courses and standardized tests and if the students aren't standardized the school district doesn't get its govt. check.

considering what we put up with here in NY

Ain't that the truth
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seasoned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I think a lot of us here are a product of our educational system,and to me that shows that it DID work in the past.

But it definitely is broken today.

A reasonably intelligent person with "NO education" WILL learn something! In fact, if they didn't, schools would be at a loss to do ANYTHING! After all, they DO expect you to understand communication. So it did NOT work, at least when I was a kid. It merely limped along! It could have been SO much better. It is like a class I once took about 12 years ago. It was a JOKE! You know what I did after I spent a few minutes in that class that lasted a DAY using the tool? I studied for the M/S VB exam. So what happened?

Well, I passed the VB exam with like a 97%. Oh yeah, about that tool, I was in the class to learn? My first project was a resounding success! The customer asked me to WAIT for "the expert" from the company, that was due nearly 30 days later. I got bored, installed the project, and finished the project in a couple days. When "the expert" finally got there, all he could say was that I did a good job, and leave! Today, they call ME an expert, and I got thankyou letters from the company for my help.

So did that class help me? Not really. I succeeded ON MY OWN.

Also, I was bullied as a kid. Teachers DO NOT CARE!

Steve
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KimW

13 years ago

Not a problem T-Bird,
It is too easy to misunderstand ones meaning when its just the typed word.
I find the behavior just as wrong as you do,in any circumstances.

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Patrician

13 years ago

Kim - As for the immediate issue of your post - you are right 'disgusting' -- of course this should never be tolerated. 'Special needs' children should have special treatment for obvious reasons.

However in general: many parents do not discipline their kids or teach them any respect. The teachers are often the victims and it is impossible for them to function effectively to teach when they have to be the policeman and psychoanalysts.

I could never imagine being a teacher for this reason. (not to mention the fact that basic school supplies are not 'included' anymore (at least some places) and if the kid's parents can't afford it I have seen many examples of teachers taking money out of their meager earnings to make sure the kids had what they need.

With that said I can remember (and I am sure some of you other 'oldies' can):

The boys got cracked over their knuckes with a ruler for the smallest thing - by the soccer coach dba teacher. (nuns were good at that too).

In my senior year I had an ex-marine for a civics teacher and granted as my mother used to say I 'went to school to eat my lunch' - but when I was late for class he made me stand in front of the whole class and do the 'twist' (the big dance in that day). VERY humiliating.

So things have either come a long way or gotten worse...

The kind of humiliation that other kids give you or worse adults whether parents or any 'authority' figure can thwart and scar even a 'normal' person for life. This is a true fact.

So there should be some 'restitution' - swept under the carpet NEVER.

Create future anti-social or even murderous behavior - DON'T DO IT.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

13 years ago

Sure - I'll throw a monkey into this ranch...if / when she gets an attorney to defend her (or one is appointed by her union) what are the bets he will try saying her rights to "privacy" were violated by taping her on hidden camera?

btw: I'm not defending her - I think her behavior was inexcusable...

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KimW

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Sure - I'll throw a monkey into this ranch...if / when she gets an attorney to defend her (or one is appointed by her union) what are the bets he will try saying her rights to "privacy" were violated by taping her on hidden camera?

btw: I'm not defending her - I think her behavior was inexcusable...

I'm certainly not going to defend her. And she might even have a valid point to an extent,except I am pretty sure there are certain public places where it has to be assumed the right to privacy doesn't exist. And I would think both a public school and a public classroom would count as one of those places.

Related but not related, I was discussing at another place the fact that I am going to get recording equipment for my phone,and every time a caller tells me that the call is going to be recorded,I'm going to inform them it is going to be recorded at my end too. Can't wait to start getting their reactions......on tape.

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seasoned

13 years ago

A "teacher" has NO expectation of privacy, and deserves NONE! And nanny cams, etc... are COMMON!

Steve

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

13 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I'm certainly not going to defend her. And she might even have a valid point to an extent,except I am pretty sure there are certain public places where it has to be assumed the right to privacy doesn't exist. And I would think both a public school and a public classroom would count as one of those places.

Related but not related, I was discussing at another place the fact that I am going to get recording equipment for my phone,and every time a caller tells me that the call is going to be recorded,I'm going to inform them it is going to be recorded at my end too. Can't wait to start getting their reactions......on tape.

Originally Posted by seasoned

A "teacher" has NO expectation of privacy, and deserves NONE! And nanny cams, etc... are COMMON!

Steve

I'm not saying she should expect privacy in this situation by any means - just that if she got an attorney to defend her, he would possibly attempt that angle of defense...he has to try any open option to defend his client.

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KimW

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I'm not saying she should expect privacy in this situation by any means - just that if she got an attorney to defend her, he would possibly attempt that angle of defense...he has to try any open option to defend his client.

I didn't think you were defending her 3M, and I was just saying that you are right,she might try to use that defense (which is why I said she might have a valid point).

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Just say no to drugs

Banned 13 years ago

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seasoned

13 years ago

[quote=Just say no to drugs;6120830]

Originally Posted by KimW

The link to this was posted on FaceBook.
Since I believe the words "Kids being bullied" are overused when most of what is happening is just a part of growing up, I figured this was like that also.
I was wrong. I watched the entire video then signed the petition.
I hope others will too.

I signed but didn't have the stomach to watch, I'll trust you and I have heard about this on the news. Hope he and the rest get fired.

Basically, he has a 10yo son that loves him, is nice, well behaved, and doesn't talk much. The teachers claimed that he was beligerent and hit them. The father didn't believe it, but the school had a psychiatrist try to harass, and get his son, Aiken, to hit him. He DIDN'T!

Aikens father was at a loss, so he wired up aiken so he could record what was happening. The teachers did NOTHING but chat about stuff that ALONE should have gotten them FIRED! They belittled their husbands, complained about them each wanting one another sterilized, talked about getting drunk and "heaving", etc...

Well, they ALSO called Aiken a *******, told him he couldn't see his father, etc... They did all they could to harass him.

Steve

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Methow

13 years ago

I was bullied as a kid. Now with kids of my own, I have zero bully tolerance.

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KimW

13 years ago

I think he thought,as I did, that you may have thought there was something graphic ,and there isn't.
When I titled the thread absolutely disgusting it was in reference to the situation and not to anything graphic.

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MissTerraK 13 years ago

I couldn't listen to the whole thing. After the little boy was called a ba*&^d, the tears came rolling and I stopped.

How despicable! I really just can't understand how these ladies could be allowed to teach kids with special needs!

I worked one on one with kids with special needs with a variety of conditions and syndromes for 3 years in the public school system and found it to be the most rewarding experience.

Just to see those children learn something they were having a hard time grasping, their faces and eyes light up when they finally got it was a pure joy. Then seeing them integrated back into their classrooms with me at their side, being able to answer questions the teacher asked and the look of pride on their little faces was priceless.

Seeing their classmates, encourage and praise them was phenomenal!

I can't for the life of me understand how these ladies were allowed within 50 feet of any child, let alone a special needs one.

They should have been fired immediately! I just can't believe that the public schools have deteriorated so badly since I worked there.

I'm appalled, shocked, dismayed and disgusted. If public hangings were still allowed, I'd petition for one or two!

Terra
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Rich Struck

13 years ago

The guy come off as a drama queen.

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Dennis Gaskill 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich Struck

The guy come off as a drama queen.

...or maybe a concerned, protective parent. Do you have any children, Rich?
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thunderbird 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rich Struck

The guy come off as a drama queen.

I think he comes across as a father protecting his vulnerable son. The opposite of some kind of wuss drama queen. What would you have done to protect your autistic son? Acted like a total wimp, hiding in the shadows, so as not to appear to be a "drama queen"?
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KimW

13 years ago

T-Bird,
One thing that I can vouch for is that it is hard to feel the pain of a parent until you actually are one.

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SteveJohnson 13 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

T-Bird,
One thing that I can vouch for is that it is hard to feel the pain of a parent until you actually are one.

I think something changes at the chemical level in the brain. It turns on a 'protect whatever the cost' gene or something.
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zelgly2

13 years ago

Why do people who are not interested in teaching come to this noble profession? there should be some other way to select teachers apart from certificates. anyone who hears the audio will definitely get angry at these teachers. they should be punished

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KimW

13 years ago

Originally Posted by zelgly2

Why do people who are not interested in teaching come to this noble profession? there should be some other way to select teachers apart from certificates. anyone who hears the audio will definitely get angry at these teachers. they should be punished

They probably were interested when they started,but were not smart enough to see when they were getting burned out on it and instead of fixing themselves,they let the children they were suppose to help become the targets of their anger and frustrations.

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seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

They probably were interested when they started,but were not smart enough to see when they were getting burned out on it and instead of fixing themselves,they let the children they were suppose to help become the targets of their anger and frustrations.

Well, if they knew the kid was autistic, etc.. and he was decent, they have NO business treating him as they did. He has, and will have, ENOUGH trouble without THEM adding to it. It is bad enough when the kids are normal. Most "teachers" DON'T CARE!

And Tim... About 2/3rds of my education was private. What is your point? The idea of online teaching seems pretty nice if you have decent parents, and/or a desire to learn.

The US IS a third world nation, and going farther down. Even EDUCATION! I spoke with some parents and they say their kids are having trouble understanding the "teachers" speaking broken Inglish. BTW do NOT mean ENGLISH. It is my pet name for a special type of english LIKE language. They now practically ENCOURAGE using calculators! They don't teach cursive. They strike at will, and get kids to help! They just PASS kids, etc...

A local laundromat made the news, and had a FEDERAL case, etc... by trying to exclude people from a certain culture. WHY? Because some of them used the equipment for exactly what it was NOT to be used for. They can't understand english very well, and DON'T CARE! How much longer until nobody can do ANYTHING?

WHY can't a laudromat keep their machines clean, keep business, keep things sanitary, and keep stench away? They have to sacrifice ALL of that just so a SMALL segment of the population can play 1st worlder?

And what of MATH? Some of the problems I have seen, and heard of, make ME pity those people and wonder where the US is going, and I wasn't the best in math.

One of my best friends in highschool, and a PUBLIC highschool, BTW, was VERY good at math. HOW good? Well, the head of the math department ran the math club, and had great respect for him. He also was humbled by that student that breezed through problems that the teacher couldn't. So how did that student do so well? Well, it was clear it was NOT from school! Do you think MAYBE it was because he was the son of two engineers that gave him lots of exposure to their work? He got a computer at a rather young age and was playing with all sorts of math problems.

Steve

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gentryliving

13 years ago

I feel sad upon watching the video. There has to be an action on this matter. Children should be treated in right way autistic or not.

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Absolutely Disgusting.

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