Why I rarely post in the main forums anymore

by KimW
114 replies
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Someone started a thread about why you shouldn't ask for a WSO refund.

Here is his post:
Have you ever bought a WSO that sounded too good to be true but you got "suckered" in and went for it any way?

What did you do?

I have to admit, it's happened to me a few times.

BUT...

I didn't ask for a refund. Here is why:

1) If I know better but let my greed get the best of me then the small price of a WSO is more than worth the lesson.

2) Sometimes it turns out that the info is good but it doesn't meet my goals or current schedule. However, that's the risk I take and it's MY RESPONSIBILITY not the seller's.

So instead of asking for a refund, I move on with my life.

================================================== ======

Basically he is saying don't get a refund due to buyers remorse, take personal responsibility for your decision.

================================================== ======

Seems most people responding don't get his message and are posting about everything but what the thread was about....crappy WSOs,serial refunders,blah blah blah.

And THAT is why I don't post much up there. :rolleyes:
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    What's Main Discussion? :confused::confused::confused:
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      What's Main Discussion? :confused::confused::confused:
      Where we talk about the installation, maintenance, and repair of water mains.



      At least that is what I've been talking about this whole time.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    I hear you KIM.

    I know this is not exactly what you are referring to but:
    The main forum has (IMO) gone off topic.

    Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum
    Where We Talk About Making Money

    Should maybe read: Where We Talk About Whatever Is On Your Mind...


    I have to add that when the mods are alerted or they notice themselves threads are moved or deleted but the sheer volume makes it an up hill battle. And it's not only newer members who are at fault.

    As for the nonsense posts, many people just seem to put in their 2 cents worth without actually reading the OP or the following posts.
    And when OP is asking for some kind of advice you also notice the same answers again and again, it's almost like they read it on a different thread and regurgitated the reply as their own.
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  • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
    Still being relatively new to the forum, I'm still tempted to post upstairs every now and again but I'm usually disappointed.

    It's either the same question asked 14 times or questions so asinine you wanna just come out and tell them "If you have to ask that...give up now, find a day job cuz you ain't gonna make it"
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Yeah, but is it legal?
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  • Profile picture of the author Isaiah Jackson
    I agree with you on this one Kim, I was on a thread yesterday and all it took was one person to say something crazy that had nothing to do with the original post then everyone started posting about what he had said and not the original post.

    Crazy.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      I have to admit I very stealthily creep up the stairs once in a while always glancing from side to side, back behind me and straight ahead looking out for all the cow puckey flying around and all the people biotching about stepping in it.

      Then there are people debating whether it was cow puckey, cow dung or straight out bullsh*t!

      And others still are running around trying to teach everyone exactly the correct method those animals should use while having a bowel movement while others still are screaming their services for pooper scoopers are better than the next guys.

      Then, if I've avoided having to race back down here for escape and refuge, every once in a while I find a worthwhile post and responses to it and it seems worth venturing up there occasionally.

      Just depends on if I want to put on my hip waders or not.

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    It may solve a few problems around here if people had to pass an IQ test before they were allowed to post. I say that will full awareness I might not be able to pass it.
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    • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      It may solve a few problems around here if people had to pass an IQ test before they were allowed to post. I say that will full awareness I might not be able to pass it.
      iq is not in my im dictionary

      please explain
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by oncewerewarriors View Post

        iq is not in my im dictionary

        please explain
        It is your "Internet Quotient", kind of like your "intelligence quotient" but recalibrated for use online. It rates your ability to logically talk about IM and not buy in to silly product claims.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by oncewerewarriors View Post

          iq is not in my im dictionary

          please explain
          What the smart guy said...

          Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

          It is your "Internet Quotient", kind of like your "intelligence quotient" but recalibrated for use online. It rates your ability to logically talk about IM and not buy in to silly product claims.
          Signature

          Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Some of the crazy and senile old timers still post in the main forums because they just can't see what's up.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Some of the crazy and senile old timers still post in the main forums because they just can't see what's up.
        ...and I post there because it makes me feel like I have friends.

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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
        Banned
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Some of the crazy and senile old timers still post in the main forums because they just can't see what's up.
        This is what brewers droop does to you in the long term.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned


    We also would have accepted the following (the Spanish version because we are in Florida after all):

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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    might still have a friend but the hair is long gone

    recorded on the hirsute apple label methinks
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    I saw what you mean about your thread Mark...
    Just goes to show most people don't care unless they get a swift kick in the pants.
    You can spend more time up there reporting threads than you do reading.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson, "This town needs an enema!"

      Talk to me, folks. What needs to trigger the 'eject' button?


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Talk to me, folks. What needs to trigger the 'eject' button?


        Paul
        This could be a thread unto itself.

        Joe Mobley
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      • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson, "This town needs an enema!"

        Talk to me, folks. What needs to trigger the 'eject' button?


        Paul
        Ok, I'll provide an over the top answer and then perhaps we can rationalize it toward a more feasible solution.

        Having a hodgepodge board encourages hodgepodge conversation. If people want to BS and socialize they can come down here.

        I say let's get rid of the Main Discussion board all together.

        This way when people come to WF to post a question, they are forced to find the appropriate section. There are only so many questions to ask and 9 times out of 10 there's a board for it. Perhaps you could add an introduction and/or getting started board to indoctrinate...I mean acclimate new members.

        I've only been around a year and I've noticed the change so I can imagine how frustrating it is for long timers. But IMHO the WF population has grown too large to expect the masses to self govern. It sucks but it happens.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

          I say let's get rid of the Main Discussion board all together.
          Eh, I feel like that would just move the problem to whichever subforum becomes the most popular in it's place. Their behavior isn't going to change because one section is suddenly gone. I think the crux of the problem comes from people who just got here anyways. They'll have no idea the Main Forum ever existed in the first place, or why it is gone. They'll just see that "oh, the SEO forum gets the most eyes. I'm going to post my question/sig file/cookie stuffed image there so it has the best chance of being seen."

          Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

          This way when people come to WF to post a question, they are forced to find the appropriate section. There are only so many questions to ask and 9 times out of 10 there's a board for it.
          Again, the disappearance of one section is not going to force a new behavior system on the newbies (who are the crux of the problem at the top floor).

          Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

          Perhaps you could add an introduction and/or getting started board to indoctrinate...I mean acclimate new members.
          Now that's an idea. The best way in my opinion to fight the problem is properly educating people as they come into the forum. Like it or not, it seems that very few take the time to read the stickies until they are about to be (or already are) banned.

          It would be cool to make newly registered members have to watch (or work through if someone can make it interactive) a tutorial on the forum, complete with a test at the end.

          I'm not sure if that is logistically realistic though.
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            Now that's an idea. The best way in my opinion to fight the problem is properly educating people as they come into the forum. Like it or not, it seems that very few take the time to read the stickies until they are about to be (or already are) banned.

            It would be cool to make newly registered members have to watch (or work through if someone can make it interactive) a tutorial on the forum, complete with a test at the end.

            I'm not sure if that is logistically realistic though.
            You may be on to something there Joe!

            Or perhaps, instead of a test, they would have to post in a designated area that they have read and understood the rules and do hereby solemnly swear to abide by and adhere to them.

            Until they post in that thread, they can only see or post in the OT forum and we could put them in their place and on the right track from there.

            They could see the entire forum not logged in for reading or learning purposes, but when logged in, they can't see the rest of the forum or post there until they have posted in above mentioned thread?

            I don't know...you think that could/would work guys?

            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              They could see the entire forum not logged in for reading or learning purposes, but when logged in, they can't see the rest of the forum or post there until they have posted in above mentioned thread?
              I think that's an awesome idea! Except we don't tell them how to trigger the full board. They have to figure out how to use the search button and then look for a secret hidden thread that reveals how to post in the other boards.

              That would demolish all of the idiot spammers and people posting questions like "What color is the Internet on Fridays? And it is better to post my WSO in the WSO section or the Offline Marketing section?"

              -- j
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
              Banned
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Or perhaps, instead of a test, they would have to post in a designated area that they have read and understood the rules and do hereby solemnly swear to abide by and adhere to them.

              Until they post in that thread, they can only see or post in the OT forum and we could put them in their place and on the right track from there.
              I definitely think that if the forum were to create requirements for newbies, blocking posting privileges would be key. I didn't think of leaving the OT available; but it would definitely be a good idea. Give them a crash course on just what kind of culture they will soon be running into . I see a potential problem though: the OT will become a spammer/bot haven.

              If we make it harder to gain access to posting in the main sections at large, we have all the spammers, cookie stuffers, bots, and one line posters hanging around with nowhere to go. They've proven themselves to not be the type to care for rules, so what will they probably do? Go straight to the only open section and post away. We'd be "flooding the basement" (I can't help it, the pun was sitting right there).

              Anyways, I don't want you to think I'm crapping on your theory Terra so know that I've already completely debunked mine . A test probably wouldn't work for very long. Once someone figures out all of the answers, that sucker can get posted all over the BH forums first, and then the internet at large. It'd quickly become nothing more than a wasted formality.

              Damn, improving stuff is hard.
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          • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            Eh, I feel like that would just move the problem to whichever subforum becomes the most popular in it's place. Their behavior isn't going to change because one section is suddenly gone. I think the crux of the problem comes from people who just got here anyways. They'll have no idea the Main Forum ever existed in the first place, or why it is gone. They'll just see that "oh, the SEO forum gets the most eyes. I'm going to post my question/sig file/cookie stuffed image there so it has the best chance of being seen."

            I hear you, but I think smaller groups are much more vigilant about the integrity of the board they frequent. There's a greater sense of community. The crap that goes on in the Main Forum would NEVER be tolerated down here or any of the other close knit subforums. (Note: the copywriting forum is even more brutal toward trolls than we are)

            But in Main Discussion? The patients are running the asylum.

            Then again, perhaps there's nothing that should be done. Everything has its ebb and flow. I've had the displeasure of visiting a few of the other IM forums and believe me, WF problems are minuscule by comparison.

            Maybe it's a good thing the spammers congregate there, it saves the rest of the forums for real conversation.



            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Halcyon,
            ...

            An introduction section might be useful, but we'd have to make sure people posting there were warned against anyone approaching them with pitches. We've seen some pretty aggressive predators going after new members in the past. They get removed, but not as quickly as we'd like. Mostly because the new folks don't know how to spot them and go about reporting them.
            ...
            Paul
            Perhaps make the introduction board a no sig, no post increasing section, as well as pitch free?
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            • Profile picture of the author Gail_Curran
              Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

              But in Main Discussion? The patients are running the asylum.
              Oh, clearly you haven't visited the Adsense/SEO forum recently. I gave up trying to report the spammers and wasters in that section - there aren't enough hours in the day. And every bloody one of them has to post in all the FAQ sticky posts, too. 90% of that section could be deleted with absolutely no loss of value to the WF.

              .
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

          Ok, I'll provide an over the top answer and then perhaps we can rationalize it toward a more feasible solution.

          Having a hodgepodge board encourages hodgepodge conversation. If people want to BS and socialize they can come down here.

          I say let's get rid of the Main Discussion board all together.

          This way when people come to WF to post a question, they are forced to find the appropriate section. There are only so many questions to ask and 9 times out of 10 there's a board for it. Perhaps you could add an introduction and/or getting started board to indoctrinate...I mean acclimate new members.

          I've only been around a year and I've noticed the change so I can imagine how frustrating it is for long timers. But IMHO the WF population has grown too large to expect the masses to self govern. It sucks but it happens.

          Oh hell NO. Leave the main discussion ....do NOT bring the morons down to the OT......unless they need to be destroyed. That can be fun sometimes.
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson, "This town needs an enema!"

        Talk to me, folks. What needs to trigger the 'eject' button?


        Paul
        One set of rules that apply to all would be a start.
        All the while you allow some people to post, what others can't,
        nobody is ever going to "get it"
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Halcyon,

          Getting rid of Main Discussion is a non-starter. THere are too many topics that don't fit into neatly defined categories.

          I think what's happened in your year of experience here is that you've gone from seeing everything in a bright light, which is common for smart people looking for answers in a new place, to seeing all of what's here. And getting tired of the repetition of some things that aren't as useful as we might like.

          Ken's pegged it. That stuff is part and parcel of the game. The constant introduction of new people to the forum guarantees that we'll see the same cycles repeating.

          An introduction section might be useful, but we'd have to make sure people posting there were warned against anyone approaching them with pitches. We've seen some pretty aggressive predators going after new members in the past. They get removed, but not as quickly as we'd like. Mostly because the new folks don't know how to spot them and go about reporting them.

          Joe,
          It would be cool to make newly registered members have to watch (or work through if someone can make it interactive) a tutorial on the forum, complete with a test at the end.

          I'm not sure if that is logistically realistic though.
          The logistics are the only objection to this one. It's a good idea. Just not sure of a way to implement it that would work. It wouldn't solve many problems, but a few, maybe, that are daily nags.

          Terra,
          They could see the entire forum not logged in for reading or learning purposes, but when logged in, they can't see the rest of the forum or post there until they have posted in above mentioned thread?
          It would have to be a flag in their profile. A thread like that would go away pretty quickly based on the limits of the forum software itself.

          That would be an interesting hack for vBulletin.

          The Q&A would have to change regularly, too, or the real freaks and spammers would just share the answers.

          Les,
          One set of rules that apply to all would be a start.
          There are rules that apply to everyone, and there are rules with more flexibility. You've been here long enough to remember the original set, which included the phrase, "Them that gives, gets."

          Rules that don't take context and contribution into account can end up doing more harm than good.

          The majority of people who stick around don't seem to have much trouble "getting" the rules. And, as Joe mentioned earlier, the biggest number of problems arise from new accounts. Absolutely nothing is going to alleviate the problem of mistakes due to inexperience.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

            It would be cool to make newly registered members have to watch (or work through if someone can make it interactive) a tutorial on the forum, complete with a test at the end.
            Some time ago I suggested user have to pass a test to access the WSO forum. Nothing difficult, just something people would have to acknowledge to gain entrance. Questions that attempt to address common problems, like:

            Do you understand income claims are mostly hype and only apply to the person selling the WSO, and that your results will not likely match the claims?

            Then a yes or no checkbox, with yes being the required answer to enter.

            That's just a quick example question off the top of my head, not one I've given thought to, so it may not be a good example. Hopefully it is good enough to illustrate what I meant by a "test."

            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            An introduction section might be useful, but we'd have to make sure people posting there were warned against anyone approaching them with pitches. We've seen some pretty aggressive predators going after new members in the past. They get removed, but not as quickly as we'd like. Mostly because the new folks don't know how to spot them and go about reporting them.
            An introduction thread is something I've thought in the past would be a good idea. I'd volunteer to moderate a subforum like that if the boss wanted to give it a try. I couldn't be there 24/7 of course, but I'm sure a couple others would volunteer. I could be here in the wee hours, when it may be harder to staff.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

              I hear you, but I think smaller groups are much more vigilant about the integrity of the board they frequent. There's a greater sense of community. The crap that goes on in the Main Forum would NEVER be tolerated down here or any of the other close knit subforums. (Note: the copywriting forum is even more brutal toward trolls than we are)

              But in Main Discussion? The patients are running the asylum.
              I agree completely, and it's why I started coming down here in the first place it's a nice change of pace. I think the sheer numbers in this forum is what would create the problem. Many of those members wouldn't go away, they'd just be displaced into whatever forum is chosen as the troll replacement. Even the best policed section wouldn't be able to hold them off forever...



              Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

              Then again, perhaps there's nothing that should be done. Everything has its ebb and flow. I've had the displeasure of visiting a few of the other IM forums and believe me, WF problems are minuscule by comparison.

              Maybe it's a good thing the spammers congregate there, it saves the rest of the forums for real conversation.
              I agree with this. Let them congregate there, so we at least have an idea where most of them are at. Although like Gail says...

              Originally Posted by Gail_Curran View Post

              Oh, clearly you haven't visited the Adsense/SEO forum recently. I gave up trying to report the spammers and wasters in that section - there aren't enough hours in the day. And every bloody one of them has to post in all the FAQ sticky posts, too. 90% of that section could be deleted with absolutely no loss of value to the WF.

              .
              The SEO section is pretty bad too. Anyways, staying on the Main Board topic, at least when most of the trolls, spammers, clueless people are contained there they are a little bit easier to police.

              I also don't think the Main Board is completely lost either. I spend a lot of time up there and have some pretty engaging conversations, albeit with a relatively small group of posters. I guess that's humanity in general though playing itself out on here: most people are idiots :p.

              Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

              Perhaps make the introduction board a no sig, no post increasing section, as well as pitch free?
              I'd definitely be on board with that idea. Make it so the only incentive is access to the rest of the forum, and it can only be gained by proving yourself worthy.


              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              Some time ago I suggested user have to pass a test to access the WSO forum. Nothing difficult, just something people would have to acknowledge to gain entrance. Questions that attempt to address common problems, like:

              Do you understand income claims are mostly hype and only apply to the person selling the WSO, and that your results will not likely match the claims?

              Then a yes or no checkbox, with yes being the required answer to enter.

              That's just a quick example question off the top of my head, not one I've given thought to, so it may not be a good example. Hopefully it is good enough to illustrate what I meant by a "test."
              That's pretty cool. The site Fanfiction.net does something kind of similar actually. If you want to publish a story there, you have to agree to their publishing guidelines. It resets something like once eery 7 days too, so hopefully people actually read it eventually.



              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              An introduction thread is something I've thought in the past would be a good idea. I'd volunteer to moderate a subforum like that if the boss wanted to give it a try. I couldn't be there 24/7 of course, but I'm sure a couple others would volunteer. I could be here in the wee hours, when it may be harder to staff.
              I'd be down to help too on a limited basis if it meant making sure a better class of Warrior got in. I'm not much of the moderator type though .
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          • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            There are rules that apply to everyone, and there are rules with more flexibility. You've been here long enough to remember the original set, which included the phrase, "Them that gives, gets."
            A rule a lot of people wouldn't agree with as there are clearly
            a lot of mistakes being made over exactly what "gives" means.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Les,
              A rule a lot of people wouldn't agree with as there are clearly a lot of mistakes being made over exactly what "gives" means.
              Or how much someone who gives should get.

              If two people with as much experience as you and I have don't agree on everything, it's pretty likely that lots of other people, with more personal gain at stake, won't agree.

              As far as "mistakes" ... that's another thing that was in those old rules you might remember: The moderators WILL make mistakes. We ain't perfect.

              You usually prefer to act on the principle of strict application. I generally prefer to consider context and circumstance. Other moderators apply different mixes. In the end, though, the only real differences tend to be small, and affect only the edge cases or minor issues.

              I can live with that. A little fuzziness keeps us all on our toes.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                If two people with as much experience as you and I have don't agree on everything, it's pretty likely that lots of other people, with more personal gain at stake, won't agree.
                Even more reason to just have one set of rules then Paul.
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Les,
                  Even more reason to just have one set of rules then Paul.
                  We do. We just have multiple interpretations of those rules. That's inevitable, given multiple moderators. It's a subjective process. As long as the overriding principle is "The good of the members comes first," the differences will be small.

                  As Father Anthony De Mello might say here... "There is one thing, Les, that even G-d can't do: Please everyone."


                  Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    If someone starts a post with who what when where or why make it automatically default to the search function?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    Since this forum is the size of a small city, you can't really be surprised when you see it's got as many wackos as your average municipality.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charlotte Jay
    I only go because I like poking people with a stick
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      OK, how about this,
      when someone registers a new account they see this:

      Hey Newbie, Yes You!
      Before you start polluting this forum:

      1. USE the SEARCH function before you post, most of your questions have been answered.
      2. Familiarize yourself with the different forums so you don't get a slap on the back of the head when you post in the wrong forum.

      - WELCOME -


      All tongue in cheek of course, but feel free to add your own...

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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    3. READ RULE #1, READ RULE #1, READ RULE #1, READ RULE #1, GO TO THE FREAKING STICKIES AND READ RULE#1
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  • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
    I finally jettisoned myself in an escape shuttle from the main board a few minutes ago. People were beginning to hurl accusation of porn-star identities at each other while jumping on Fin when he jokingly said the e-books were dead. I think there were mentions of goat sacrifice to appease a Penguin/Panda hybrid as well.

    The truly clueless and the non-English speakers have taken over tonight.

    :rolleyes:

    -- j
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

      I finally jettisoned myself in an escape shuttle from the main board a few minutes ago.

      The truly clueless and the non-English speakers have taken over tonight.

      :rolleyes:

      -- j
      You need to pace yourself up there, 10 min at a time.
      Long exposures to main forum could lead to dementia.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

        You need to pace yourself up there, 10 min at a time.
        Long exposures to main forum could lead to dementia.
        salesgurus speaks the truth. I didn't listen, and now I'll never be completely right again .
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          I just realized yet another reason why I don't post upstairs very often anymore whether it's the main forum or not.

          When I click on the new posts tab, I am constantly bombarded with the titles of threads containing too many characters interrupting the ease of perusal. All of the brackets, arrows, plus, equal and dollar signs for instance, added to the slashes and dashes whether bolded or not, cause me to just pass over and not even read them. If I'm not reading them, I'm certainly not posting in them.

          I can't even imagine walking down main street of any town wanting to do some shopping and seeing all of those characters on the storefront signs. The signs there are meant to draw people in, not cause them to avoid or ignore their place of business.

          Titles are a form of advertising whether you're selling something or not. They are an invitation of sorts to invite you to take another step further inside. Didn't we all learn about the importance of titles in Writing 101? When you post something aren't you looking for interaction from others? Driving them away with eyesore titles won't get the results you want.

          *[Does anyone else] feel the "same" way??? ~ Or - is it that 'I' just turned [10 x 5= 50] ((and my eyes)) are getting tired, lol!!!!* :p

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author onSubie
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            When I click on the new posts tab, I am constantly bombarded with the titles of threads containing too many characters interrupting the ease of perusal. All of the brackets, arrows, plus, equal and dollar signs for instance, added to the slashes and dashes whether bolded or not, cause me to just pass over and not even read them. If I'm not reading them, I'm certainly not posting in them.
            Yes, it would be nice if they didn't include WSO's or Warrior Offers in "new posts".

            Mahlon
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        • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
          Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

          salesgurus speaks the truth. I didn't listen, and now I'll never be completely right again .
          Too Easy, gonna leave that one be!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well, gee, Terra - - exactly how many people in here (even those that call themselves writers) ever took writing 101? LOL.

    Most people learn everything they know about business at all here in the WF - from marketers.

    I still go into the main forum sometimes. I post sometimes. It's increasingly difficult to find a thread that I even can read through the OP without feeling the need to click out of there. At least there are some members that post some interesting and informative threads now and again. I'm finding more and more, though, even Sr members of the forum are just posting in reaction to all the retardation taking place up there.

    Paul - I don't know if you can do much about it, but if I think of anything that might work I'll sure pass it along. It's not like we're all that free to just bombard that forum and roast the idiots like we do down here in the bar. LOL.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Well, gee, Terra - - exactly how many people in here (even those that call themselves writers) ever took writing 101? LOL.

      Most people learn everything they know about business at all here in the WF - from marketers.
      Haha Sal!

      But come on, didn't they even go to high school and have college English classes or college prep classes?

      If not, I'm sure they could have gleaned some common sense from their regular English classes?

      Or do you suppose it's a generational thing? :confused:

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Or do you suppose it's a generational thing? :confused:
        That's been my observation. I'm not very proud of the age group I'm growing up with at the moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author mickfilm
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Originally Posted by mickfilm View Post

      I must place any links on this site until i reach 15 messages
      Not sure if you can take it that long...
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

        Not sure if you can take it that long...
        [chuckle]

        Great minds, as they say.
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  • Profile picture of the author mickfilm
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  • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
    It happened to me again this morning. I've tried twice to get back into the main forum, and both times it's been so full of *bleep*, *bleep*, and especially heapings loads of *bleep* that I can't spend my allotted 19 hours in there. I feel like I may have to actually be productive and do something with my time besides post to the WF.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JaRyCu View Post

      It happened to me again this morning. I've tried twice to get back into the main forum, and both times it's been so full of *bleep*, *bleep*, and especially heapings loads of *bleep* that I can't spend my allotted 19 hours in there. I feel like I may have to actually be productive and do something with my time besides post to the WF.
      I'm seeing it a lot more too over the last couple of days, might just be because I am looking for it more. I actually stayed away for most of today...and got a lot done.

      Still, I'd rather keep putting time in here. I do enjoy the community.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Lately, going up into the main forums searching for something of value is sort of like someone believing that there is intelligent life in outer space, but trying to find it proves mighty difficult.

        Okay, it's not quite that bad, but pretty close.

        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author salegurus
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          Lately, going up into the main forums searching for something of value is sort of like someone believing that there is intelligent life in outer space, but trying to find it proves mighty difficult.

          Okay, it's not quite that bad, but pretty close.

          Terra
          I'm hoping there's intelligent life out there, it's getting harder to find it here on Earth.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
        Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

        I'm seeing it a lot more too over the last couple of days, might just be because I am looking for it more. I actually stayed away for most of today...and got a lot done.

        Still, I'd rather keep putting time in here. I do enjoy the community.
        I actually stayed out for 12 hours after that post. I went and saw The Avengers, ate a good dinner out, watched TV, and then fired up Diablo III (I forgot it went live this week!!).

        After playing WoW for a year, it was hard as hell to get used to moving around in D3, and I changed like 19 options by accident before by hitting WoW movement keys LOL! It looks like it's gonna be great game, though.

        -- j
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    I've tried to be positive when im in the 'anything goes forum' but there's just soooo much c__p being posted and so many buffoons to deal with....
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

      I've tried to be positive when im in the 'anything goes forum' but there's just soooo much c__p being posted and so many buffoons to deal with....
      It's even worse today.
      More like a childrens playground.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Since few people in the main forum listen nowadays and ask the same questions again and again and refuse to listen to good advice when it doesn't suit them, posting there seems akin to casting perls before swine.

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Okay. Enough.

    Les, I just went through the front page. The thread titles are mostly sensible, and the OPs I looked at were reasonable. There's nothing "playground" about it.

    Yes, there are always going to be newbie comments. What, exactly, do you expect in a plavce that attracts as many new people as this one does every day?

    Chris... How is any of what you just said "new?" It's an inescapable part of the process. You'll find it in any large group.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
      What? No more bellyaching?
      If we can't bellyache down here, where can we bellyache among friends?

      In any large group not only are there going to be newbies but oldies that belly ache about the newbies. In brick and mortar society we call these places retirement homes and/bars. On WF it's the OT or Basement.

      If you take our bellyaching away, all we'll have left to talk about is music and deceased celebrities.


      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Okay. Enough.

      Les, I just went through the front page. The thread titles are mostly sensible, and the OPs I looked at were reasonable. There's nothing "playground" about it.

      Yes, there are always going to be newbie comments. What, exactly, do you expect in a plavce that attracts as many new people as this one does every day?

      Chris... How is any of what you just said "new?" It's an inescapable part of the process. You'll find it in any large group.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I can understand the newbie questions to a point, especially from the youngsters that are here to really learn,but some of the posts are beyond ridiculous and the answers from supposedly intelligent people are even worse.
    My original post in the thread is the perfect example.
    The OP was saying man up and be responsible for your own actions,and the thread turned into everything but what the post was about.
    Part of my OP:
    ================================================== ===============

    Basically he is saying don't get a refund due to buyers remorse, take personal responsibility for your decision.

    ================================================== ======

    Seems most people responding don't get his message and are posting about everything but what the thread was about....crappy WSOs,serial refunders,blah blah blah.

    And THAT is why I don't post much up there.
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      I can understand repetitive questions because as Paul said there are so many new members signing-up daily and for them the question is new.

      What i don't get is completely off topic threads, nonsense threads and do you get a warning every time a mod has to waist time deleting or removing a thread? ie:

      Poll - Are you going to invest in Facebook?
      When is it time to quit?
      How can i make $5000 by next week?
      Can i post a video?
      Affiliate announce - good or bad?
      etc. etc. etc.


      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      I can understand the newbie questions to a point, especially from the youngsters that are here to really learn,but some of the posts are beyond ridiculous and the answers from supposedly intelligent people are even worse.
      I think many of the "ridiculous" posts are from people who know that the main forum is where they will get the most attention.
      Maybe It's a combination of ego and stupidity?

      Anyway, my interpretation of Off-Topic and Nonsense may be out of sync with the mainstream...
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Theo,
        Poll - Are you going to invest in Facebook?
        When is it time to quit?
        How can i make $5000 by next week?
        Can i post a video?
        Affiliate announce - good or bad?
        With the exception of the "Make $5000 by next week," which is a non-starter for most people who ask, I don't see what's wrong with any of those. Well, aside from the fact that a search would answer a couple of them.
        I think many of the "ridiculous" posts are from people who know that the main forum is where they will get the most attention.
        Some, certainly. I've recently started "reminding" those folks, by closing the threads and publicly calling them on not knowing the rules after years as a member.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          anwiii,

          No disrespect, but if we wanted to read the responses on that thread, we would go there and do it.

          Don't you get that we hang out down here so as not to read that? Are you trying to punish us or something?

          Keep uspstairs, upstairs please.

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author KimW
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            anwiii,

            No disrespect, but if we wanted to read the responses on that thread, we would go there and do it.

            Don't you get that we hang out down here so as not to read that? Are you trying to punish us or something?

            Keep uspstairs, upstairs please.

            Terra
            Seems to me hge did'n "get it" either Terra. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    SaleGurus,

    I saw this thread in the main forum before my last post:
    "Can I sell an Aweber account?"

    Maybe I'm just too old fashioned,but I believe if you want a good answer, you go to the source.
    In this case, if the OP wants to know if he can sell an Aweber account, why not ask Aweber for goodness sakes??
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  • Profile picture of the author anwiii
    Originally Posted by KimW View Post

    I didn't ask for a refund. Here is why:

    1) If I know better but let my greed get the best of me then the small price of a WSO is more than worth the lesson.

    2) Sometimes it turns out that the info is good but it doesn't meet my goals or current schedule. However, that's the risk I take and it's MY RESPONSIBILITY not the seller's.

    So instead of asking for a refund, I move on with my life.
    basically, i would agree not to ask for a refund if the information is good. wso's isn't a book store where you can browse to see if it fits in with your current goals. there should be enough information on the wso to make a reasonable decision if it will or not.

    what i don't agree with is not asking for a refund if the wso was hyped up more than what it was. although i have only bought 2 wso's in my life, i kept them both. it's easy for me to sort through the garbage. for some people it's not though and they shouldn't have to suffer. if the wso is honoring a refund, request one. it's not just about the person buying the wso and learning from the mistake. it's about the seller's mistake as well. what is the seller learning if nobody requests a refund if it was garbage or hyped up too much or your not getting your money's worth(which is relative anyway)? nothing. he/she will continue to sell the same way because they made a **** load of money in the past from it.

    so bottom line, ask for those refunds if your not satisfied.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    What? No more bellyaching?
    There's a difference between "This specific thing is a problem" and "Life sucks, and you suck if you don't agree that life sucks."

    Too much griping lately. It's gotten to where even OT sounds like an old guy bar.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      It's gotten to where even OT sounds like an old guy bar.


      Paul
      Haha! Can't wait until the next family member calls to ask me what I've been up to lately and I tell them I've been hangin' out in an old guy bar!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Haha! Can't wait until the next family member calls to ask me what I've been up to lately and I tell them I've been hangin' out in an old guy bar!

        Terra
        I don't remember who said it but one of our Basement posters said that OT was like hanging out at the bar during a conference. I would agree. I'm cool with that
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Halcyon View Post

          I don't remember who said it but one of our Basement posters said that OT was like hanging out at the bar during a conference. I would agree. I'm cool with that
          Yes, I also can't remember who said it, but I liked it when I read it and still like it now. I'm cool with it too.

          Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author KimW
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      There's a difference between "This specific thing is a problem" and "Life sucks, and you suck if you don't agree that life sucks."

      Too much griping lately. It's gotten to where even OT sounds like an old guy bar.


      Paul
      Paul,
      I agree partially, but this forum,the OT one, also gets way too many ridiculous and/or repeated questions when anyone with more than a few weeks on the internet should be able to find the answer too using just the search function.

      I can't speak for anyone else, but I actually try to build real relationships with people down here. A lot are actually people that I would love to associate with in real life.

      If the OT is sounding like an old guy bar, I can only think of a couple of "old time" forum members creating that atmosphere,and it really seems more recently and outspoken than before.

      And ,as history always seems to repeat itself down here, election time seems to get hot and heavy, and I applaud you and the other Mods that show extra restraint during those times.
      As you know, I have a forum that I opened up to all those that wanted to discuss both religion and politics last election. The forum is still there.

      There are at least two members who post down here that in my opinion seem to be taunting the Mods to act on them,but I'm not mentioning names.

      And I am not blameless myself. I've made posts in the past that I have regretted,but more recently I have been trying to be more restrained.

      Most of my posts fall into 4 categories.
      Musical
      Humorous
      Educational
      and,hopefully for those that I feel are sincerely asking for it, helpful.

      Sometimes though a lot of people here are too thin skinned.
      I'm not, it takes a lot to really get under my skin,and I can think of less than a dozen times over the years I have been here that I've actually let someone do it. Considering I joined in the late 90s,I think thats pretty good.
      I know when I log off for the night, I can sleep because I've followed my beliefs and I always try to be good to others.

      The original intent of this thread was to point something out.

      While some of the posts have gone all over the map, I think most have gotten my original point.

      And once again, I respect the job that you Mods do, since when I joined the forum the members probably were in the hundreds, dealing with the hundreds of thousands the forum now has has to be a nightmare.

      Thank you all.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Kim,
        If the OT is sounding like an old guy bar, I can only think of a couple of "old time" forum members creating that atmosphere,and it really seems more recently and outspoken than before.
        Goes in cycles. That's another part of the process. We clamp down on things until they hit a reasonable level, and then watch other things that are popping up as problems. While we're watching those other things, the cantankerous types are building back up to their problem levels. And round and round it goes.

        Right up until we get fed up with the same people doing the same stuff over and over, and decide to remove them for some period.


        Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Time for a RedBull - work to be done!!!! Anyone up for a quick drink?
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Ladies,Ladies,
    Who's buying the shots of tequila?
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Ladies,Ladies,
      Who's buying the shots of tequila?
      Got the first round, Kim.



      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
        Hey Paul, if we give you Terra's plate of shot glasses (and fill them up), can you convince whoever can edit the code for the WF to replace the 'New Post' button with a "Search For The Answer" button on anyone who's been a member less than 6 weeks? LOL

        -- j

        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Got the first round, Kim.



        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Jason,

          Not an available option, sadly. But, if you replace those shots with a decent single malt scotch, I'd consider pretending it was.

          Glenlivet or Glenmorangie are acceptable. Or, on special occasions, Macallan 18.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author TheArticlePros
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Jason,

            Not an available option, sadly. But, if you replace those shots with a decent single malt scotch, I'd consider pretending it was.

            Glenlivet or Glenmorangie are acceptable. Or, on special occasions, Macallan 18.


            Paul
            Give me some time to make a little more money online and then you have yourself a deal LOL!

            -- j
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Okay Paul,

              This one's for you.



              Terra
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                Okay Paul,

                This one's for you.


                Ah. Much more the thing. And I'll even forgive you mixing your marketphors.


                Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Okay, I got the bottle.

          Now is this a shot or what?



          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author KimW
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            Okay, I got the bottle.

            Now is this a shot or what?



            Terra
            First time I'd be at the end of a pistol and not saying don't shoot!
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Terra,

              Cool "bottle." I think they call that Cartel Cuervo.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Terra,

                Cool "bottle." I think they call that Cartel Cuervo.


                Paul
                What is more cool, to me anyway, is that I just gave you your 10,000th thanks!

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Terra,
                  What is more cool, to me anyway, is that I just gave you your 10,000th thanks!
                  Until we start deleting threads and some of them go away.

                  Thankee, ma'am.


                  Paul
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Terra,Until we start deleting threads and some of them go away.

                    Thankee, ma'am.


                    Paul
                    Whoa!

                    If that happens, then I could have that honor twice! :p

                    Oh, forgive me for not minding my manners, Yer welcome, sir.

                    Terra
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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      Yerra,
                      Oh, forgive me for not minding my manners, Yer welcome, sir.
                      "Sir?"

                      Where'd I put that hammer...?
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                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                        Yerra,"Sir?"

                        Where'd I put that hammer...?
                        Yerra?

                        Put away your hammer, I'd say we're even.

                        Terra
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                        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                          Ms K,
                          Yerra?
                          Ooof!
                          Put away your hammer, I'd say we're even.
                          Ummm.... SOLD!
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                          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                            It's gotten to where even OT sounds like an old guy bar.
                            What's wrong with old guys?

                            Signed, an Old Guy

                            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                            What is more cool, to me anyway, is that I just gave you your 10,000th thanks!
                            I just took back two of my thanks to Paul, which dropped his count to 9,999. Then, of course, I gave him his 10,000th thanks. :p
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                            • Profile picture of the author KimW
                              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                              What's wrong with old guys?

                              Signed, an Old Guy



                              I just took back two of my thanks to Paul, which dropped his count to 9,999. Then, of course, I gave him his 10,000th thanks. :p
                              HAHA,what an awesome idea. Think I will too.
                              We should see how many of us can give Paul his 10,000th Thanks.
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                              • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                                Originally Posted by KimW View Post

                                HAHA,what an awesome idea. Think I will too.
                                We should see how many of us can give Paul his 10,000th Thanks.
                                If we all pitch in and delete his thanks, we can all then be the FIRST ones to thank him.
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                                Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
                                So that blind people can hate them as well.
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                                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                                  Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

                                  If we all pitch in and delete his thanks, we can all then be the FIRST ones to thank him.
                                  Yeah since all his thanks came from only 5 or 6 obsessed fans it shouldnt be hard. I think they are all on this thread.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                                    John,
                                    Yeah since all his thanks came from only 5 or 6 obsessed fans it shouldnt be hard. I think they are all on this thread.
                                    [splorf!]

                                    Logic, John? You expect THAT to work?


                                    Paul
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                                    .
                                    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                  • Profile picture of the author KimW
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Terra,Until we start deleting threads and some of them go away.

                    Thankee, ma'am.


                    Paul
                    Hey Now!
                    If this thread isn't a keeper I don't know what is!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jun Balona
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post




        Terra
        Uhm.. is it ok if I get a shot at that ma'am?

        Well same here, I mostly hang out in the Off Topic. Probably because I can be my goofy self and people here wouldn't even mind.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Yes you may.

          Cheers my friend, but just remember...

          One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor!

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            Yes you may.

            Cheers my friend, but just remember...

            One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor!

            Terra
            Never worked that way for me. I always made it to porcelain before floor. Of course, that really would have been hard to fit into the rhyme.

            What I am seeing that bothers me is a keyword reaction effect of some sort. People read - they see one word in a block of text and focus on it and go all over the place on everything they have heard or issues relative to that word and miss the actually important issues that the poster is actually saying about it. I realize that it's a bit hard sometimes to tell sarcasm or humor in text -- but it seems that reading comprehension is just hitting an all time low.

            It's really hard to take people seriously when they can't even follow a simple train of thought without being completely derailed. When it's a language barrier, it's a bit easier to tolerate, but many who seem to not be able to follow a sentence through to a logical conclusion about what someone is saying it gets hard to stomach. After reading a few threads in which half of the responders don't even have a clue what the OP was asking or stating, it's time to duck and cover in the OT again.
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            Sal
            When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
            Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author Fireworks Freelancer
    Banned
    Haha.. not bad at all. I will not post there again too. I am with you on this
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Is the "Old Guy Bar" still open, or have last rounds been called?

    Actually i owned 2 Pubs/Bars years ago and those 2 words 'last rounds' still
    haunt me today.
    Sitting there at midnight with a few regulars who have no concept of time
    or the meaning of last rounds...

    Funny that some of them are now counted among my best friends and that's also where my wife and i met.

    Good times...
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    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

    ― George Carlin
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

      Is the "Old Guy Bar" still open, or have last rounds been called?

      Actually i owned 2 Pubs/Bars years ago and those 2 words 'last rounds' still
      haunt me today.

      Sitting there at midnight with a few regulars who have no concept of time
      or the meaning of last rounds...

      Funny that some of them are now counted among my best friends and that's also where my wife and i met.

      Good times...
      Move to Las Vegas...Two words you NEVER will hear together there are "Last Call".
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    If you want to go through six months of debating, defending yourself, and proving someone wrong everytime they question your motives till they cant argue anymore.... THEN, you can be a main poster in the main forum.

    I already did my time there to become a main poster in the OFFLINE one... now that its segregated Im so NOT used to being greeted with such sarcasm and pessimism. Almost everytime I go into the main forum I feel a little sick and dont stay long. Thats not sarcasm its just me being honest....

    BUT.... Mark it down and get your debate notes ready, because you will NEED them...

    JUST for giving me a hard time, at some point Im going to rise up and go in there and kick butt for six straight months and maybe even take over somebodies pond..., just out of "principle"... and stand up to some people who are too territorial to be nice now. They may not even want to keep the same username after coming out of the ring. I vow this. Just dont have the energy to fight at this time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    I haven't read the thread, but I would like to add my opinion to it.

    The reason I don't post periodically in the main forums, is because I have little experience and advice to share with the people there. There are other persons who are very good at what they do, so I leave it up to them, and I also thank them for sharing with us their knowledge.

    Also, there are a lot of threads asking the same old things, so it's really a Sisyphean job trying to reply to all of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author KimW
      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      I haven't read the thread, but I would like to add my opinion to it.

      The reason I don't post periodically in the main forums, is because I have little experience and advice to share with the people there. There are other persons who are very good at what they do, so I leave it up to them, and I also thank them for sharing with us their knowledge.

      Also, there are a lot of threads asking the same old things, so it's really a Sisyphean job trying to reply to all of them.
      No offense, you really should read a thread before replying or at least a few posts to get the gist of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    John,[splorf!]

    Logic, John? You expect THAT to work?


    Paul
    Hey I got my SECOND Paul Myers "splorf" ever. This is a monumentous occassion! Yeah Im the one responsible for about 3000 of them. Just Kidding....only 2k, really.

    In answer though Paul, logic works about fifty percent of the time, the rest is variables. Its always worth a shot because you have it 50% down from the get go if you are applying logic....then you just take your human and deal with the variables, those are called "Challenges".

    We can measure our self development by how we deal with challenges.

    Sorry, I had to answer in my own "Voice".
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