CNN Blows It Reporting on the Biggest Supreme Court Ruling in Decades

And I ***think*** Steve's point about the trout and the whale is it's ***incredible*** that Mr. Limpet now gets health coverage.

EXACTLY! There are a LOT of reasons why those countries are doing better. They are NOT doing better because they have healthcare. They are better able to have the healthcare because they are doing better. Just today I heard that te "hcp" is supposed to CREATE 400,000 jobs. Most would NOT be cheap. Let's say they all make $100,000, that is $4BILLION for JOBS! THEN, you need to like DOUBLE that for infrastructure and all, and that is $8BILLION! And they don't work in cheap places. How much will THAT cost? Well, Massachusetts JUST STARTED, and they say they have paid over $80Million so far, and that that is a fraction, and those are NOT jobs! Figure it out. If all 50 state started, that is $4Billion RIGHT THERE!

Now you may say $100K is high, but some get paid MANY times that. I have a relative that was highly placed at a hospital, and he got about 8 times that. And you may say doubling for an employee is wrong, but many in business suggest doing that to find the REAL cost. They need a place to work, equipment to use, a phone, etc... And NONE of that is FREE!

FOLKS, they are planning to spend perhaps 10s of BILLIONS, and PROBABLY more, and have already started, and that is with NO drugs, NO supplies, NO treatments, etc... I haven't even heard about BEDS yet.

And if you think that panel that sets all the prices will be free. If you think THIS tax(The supreme court yesterday said it was a TAX and even the defendant kept slipping and calling it a tax) is not going to be spent on WHO KNOWS WHAT, like social security, etc... Man, I don't know how you can even survive.

We keep going through this. The guy that said it was 400K jobs had a TON of power. Even TODAY, a TON of power! And he tried to sound nice and smart saying we needed jobs. He has had the ability to do it almost himself for YEARS, and yet he never tried. Why aren't his assertions just laughed at?

Besides, people here talk about how we need HEALTHCARE! The idea is HEALTHCARE! HEALTHCARE!!!!!!!!!!!!! We ALL know, in the US, that doctors use their time VERY inefficiently. They could EASILY triple their load! And Triage is a JOKE! Many people are seen that simply SHOULDN'T be! SO, in many cases they DON'T need new hospitals, offices, or even DOCTORS! And I and Kim spoke of how INSANE the industry is! I had to take over 6 HOURS out of my life, and pay $370(Doesn't include lost wages, gas, wear and tear, etc... THAT was probably another $500) for stupid "TRAINING"? COME ON! I have to pay $2000 for a machine that, on someone's WHIM, was turned into a paperweight? I have to pay over $4500.00 an HOUR for an ambulance? COME ON!!!!(ACTUAL NUMBER!!!!!! Average price per mile, $75.00! Average speed, over 60MPH! That does NOT include the average $250 boarding fee)! MAN am I lucky I didn't have to go 60 miles!

BTW WHAT was the training I had?

1. Don't really touch the machine. Keep it at room temperature, level, etc... If you make a mistake, IT TELLS YOU!
2. Put a test strip in the machine. They usually have arrows saying how they should go in.
3. Do what you can to get a lot of blood in your finger. If you fail, step 4 will show you, and step 5 will take care of it.
4. Prick your finger with a lancet.
5. squeeze your finger until you get a drop of blood about the size of a small ladybug.
6. When the machine tells you to, put the blood in the well on the strip.
7. WAIT!
8. Tell the nurse the number that pops up.

YEP, $300 for THAT! The leased machine company only charged $70.

BTW bargaining for that machine and everything else, cost me over $500 for NOTHING, not even training, and wasted several hours of time for several doctors. Why should doctors even have a say? It is MY life and MY time, and this improves care and outcome!

SO, WHY don't they make the system more efficient, and get rid of the garbage, rather than spending money that helps NOBODY? It is like you have to get to a party. It will take 2hours, and you have to get there 10minutes quicker. WHAT do you do? The average INTELLIGENT person will get a better route, leave earlier, and/or drive a little faster, etc... The government will go and take a flight. Maybe both places are near the airport and it is a "30 minute" flight. Sounds GREAT, HUH! Get there in HALF the time! They don't tell you about the flight being measured wheels up to wheels down, and both take 15 minutes! OK, the "30 minute" flight is ONLY an HOUR, RIGHT? They don't tell you about the 15 minute boarding and unboarding! Up to 1.5 hours! They don't tell you about the average 15 minute walk to/from the gate. 2 hours! That doesn't include the over 10 minutes for checkin and security. It doesn't include the ride to/from the airport! It doesn't include the possible delays! AND, did I mention, that is costs an average of about 6 times as much?

Steve

You better sit down before you read this Tim
I could support something like that myself
But so much would have to change before I could truly get behind it.
First we really need to take the corporate control of the FDA, USDA, EPA, and congress away. Those agencies need to go back to what they where intended to do. The FDA raiding co-ops in California that are selling raw milk to people who want it is not protecting our health. Look at who the USDA wants to subsidize. Look at how the EPA turns a blind eye to corporate farms that are polluting our environment far worse then all the cars, and trucks we drive. The Senate just voted down an amendment that would allow states to label GMO's if they wanted to without the threat of Monsanto suing them (no democrats voted for the amendment).
Every branch of government is owned by corporations today, even the Supreme Court (two of the justices where lawyers for Monsanto at one time).
In other words if you're going to pass a bill (any bill) make it something that benefits the people and country, not something that just protects corporate profits and control.

The problem is that there will eventually be no competition. Competition DOES do some things to adjust the market fairly. Adjustments include things for technology that NOBODY can EVER predict. Nobody EVER has! Do you think even say 100 years ago they predicted chemotherapy's effect on care? How about MRIs? NOPE! Another is regulation. Some drugs no longer exist, and some now require extensive tests, etc... ANOTHER, is INFLATION. That is caused by MANY things INCLUDING, ******TAXES******! It doesn't matter WHERE the taxes are. It could be just o FOOD! People eat, doctors and patients are people, they need more income, get raises, etc.... It could be on COAL, coal is used to refine metal which builds machines and needles, they are used in hospitals, etc...

At one point there was, and probably still is, a 2% tax on medical devices. One such device is that aortic stem they put in me. $20,000*.02=$400. That one little tax would raise that key piece of my operation by $400!

OK, so the market doesn't get adjusted properly. There is also one set of rules. Suppose you need someting outside of that. You're dead. At least now, there is a choice.

The mandate is SUPPOSED to be to help cover expenses that aren't accounted for for people that become ill and aren't covered, but you KNOW it will be squandored like everything else. AND, as I just indicated, we are losing a stabilizing force, and driving up costs. The money will go down the rat hole. Gee, we've had over a year to see what they did with the money based on expectation. It wasn't pretty. Do you think it will change when they DO get it?

Steve

A state can *****NOT***** dictate what an insurance company can or can not do!!!!!!!!

They can ONLY dictate what the insurance company is or is not ALLOWED to do *****IN THAT STATE*****! The two ar TOTALLY different. Many cars, at least sold prior to like 1980, were ILLEGAL in California, for example. Switzerland has rules dictating how Used cars can be sold, etc... Did the companies car? NOPE! They made cars for the market and sold them there.

HECK, prior to like 1990, it was ILLEGAL for american companies to export encryption technology greater than so many bits to even AUSTRALIA! That was funny, since they ALREADY had it, but such was the law.

IMAGINE though, if only ONE company sold it, and being in a given country, were prohibited to sell it elsewhere.

Oh well, the fact is that a state can NOT make rules for other states. EACH has its OWN office that takes care of insurance. In California, it is called the insurance commissioner. They ALSO have their own office for driving rules. I have taken tests for the California drivers license, issued by the california DMV, and the Indiana drivers license, issued by the indiana BMV. SEE, the departments even have different names and initials. The tests were different also! As for the sngle payer plan, I KNOW what it is! Let me clue you in on the plan.

1. MANY people that THINK they are on medicare AREN'T! It changed over a decade ago, and people loved the change and took IT! They THINK it is medicare. It ISN'T! It is called medicare ADVANTAGE. They started phasing it out a couple years ago!

Medicare Part C Medicare Advantange Plans and must cover all medically needed services.

Many of those plans, contrary to the above implications, are apparently FREE! They advertise on TV saying NO monthly premium. They TRUTH is that MEDICARE has paid the premium. Well, they are CUTTING IT!

2. Medicare has hstorically been for the old and very poor. as you know, they have broadened it.

3. The "hcp" has unrealistic limits, and adds costs. a 5 year audit will little by little knock out plans.

4. Eventually, everyone will end up on medicare, if it is still around. The benefits WILL change though. Of course, a panel will be setup to review, determine, and change them.

THERE is your single payer system! TADA! Currently, even MEDICARE isn't single payer! I don't know about the LOWEST level, but there may be several payers THERE also. At the highest level, a number of INSURANCE COMPANIES pay the providers. The government pays them. The government is paid in part by some that have it. Ask your parents, etc.... My mother, for example, would have said SHE was on medicare, and secure horizons. I think my father said the same. GO AHEAD, GO THERE! http://www.securehorizons.com/ It is basically a subsidized united healthcare insurance policy. Anyway, how much longer will it last?

But I am only talking about the topic, and mentioned that they have setup the facility to have a single payer system, and are pushing things towards it. And NOW, when you hear your parents talking about their medicare policies, you can check if it is REALLY medicare or the old hybrid called medicare advantage, and you know what they are talking about on the news when they talk about it. Medicare advantage is NOT what the old medicare was. It sells NOT because it is cheap or free, but because it has better coverage, is better accepted, and ADDITIONAL costs, if any, are generally lower. And they DO advertise it on TV. Maybe NOW you will see the ads. You will know HOW it is free, and why seniors don't just buy medicare.

Steve

Sure it makes sense. Yes, the mandate has a penalty but what Obama was talking about in that interview was the idea that buying insurance was a tax. Not the penalty.

By the way, there are taxes in the health care bill. These are pretty clear. There's about $100 billion over ten years of new taxes on the insurance companies. This is only fair since the government is giving them new customers by the tens of millions. Are you saying the admin deneyed this or as you say "steering very clear of calling any part of this a tax"?

While I don't entirely agree that health is an illusion, I do confess that I thought you were coming at that from a different direction, which I shouldn't have given your past posts. Should have trusted my instinct

That said, while what you're saying would be ideal, I don't see it ever happening. There are too many entrenched special interests, and the ideas of the 'medical community' on naturalistic and holistic health approaches are well-known.

I don't know what the alternative is, or even if there is one. My sense is that mass deportation is unworkable and undesirable on several levels, but there must be penalties of some sort laid on those who are given amnesty, simply because they broke the law in being here and they should have to pay for that somehow, just like you or I would have to do when we break laws.

We play in the company of great hosts - like:

Thomas Jefferson - "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not"

Thomas Sowell - "One of the sad signs of our times is that we have diminished those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain"

Benjamin Franklin - "I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer . . . In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty."

No matter how much gold paint you put on a pile of crap, its still crap.

Well then democrats are in quite the conundrum. They want to claim that the the economy is recovering nicely - AND they want to claim that lowering taxes does not help the economy. (But Obama has the lowest tax rate!) It's so fun watching democrats spin...