WHAT does this mean?

I'm new here, but this is topic is one that is very important to me.

While I can agree that the issue with education is not specific to African Americans, it does disproportionately affect them. This is because there is a higher proportion of African Americans that are affected by poverty. As an extension of that issue, impoverished families have difficulty paying the high property taxes that are enjoyed by schools in areas of higher socioeconomic status. Thus, the quality of education including schools, teachers, and resource/learning materials suffers tremendously. I'd argue that it is a class issue more than a racial issue, though class and race in the US are confounded. So, perhaps the difficulty of strictly defining causation between educational outcomes and blacks have made the White House consider this executive order? I'm not sure how effective it will actually be though, because there are other minority groups as well as majority students that struggle with educational attainment. I think a class-based approach would be better.

I like the internet idea too, it really has a lot more potential than people acknowledge, IMO.

Well, there HAVE been schools in impoverished areas that have done better than some in areas that are RICH, and some in areas that are rich are BAD! In MA there was a VERY expensive school built and it seems it is only a country club for spoiled stupid brats! Money isn't everything. If it were, the US would be #1 in everything. Is it, today, number 1 in ANYTHING good?

And not all blacks are impoverished, and not all impoverished are black. I live in a nice upper middle class community, and I KNOW there are several black families here, and they aren't poor. In fact, I got a kick out of one guy. He is one of the FEW here that put in a whole irrigation system before the place was even landscaped. Don't ask me WHY so few do that. The hotel I am staying at now is low end and several workers and guests are obviously low income whites.

HECK one of the highschools I went to was like half black! Another school I went to was mostly middle eastern, don't ask me why. But one person, that happened to be black, was treated VERY well by the school and the senior class. He was the son of a famous singer and LOADED.

Still, I think most of the problem with the really poor blacks is the family culture. Of course some really poor whites have the SAME problems. People joke about them all the time. THEY are the actual inspiration for books like... Walmart.com: Redneck Dictionary III: Learning to Talk More Gooder Fastly, Foxworthy, Jeff: New Releases They are lucky if they can break free and decide to learn, and create or get a job.

Speaking of jeff foxworthy, I will NEVER forget the 5th grader that was APPALLED at a contestant that was a MATH MAJOR in college, and got good grades, and didn't know 3x5=15! She said "And HE is a MATH MAJOR!?!?!?!?".

Steve

I do agree that the educational system is in trouble, money or not. The quote by Jeff is really sad, and telling. The US is lagging worldwide in some subjects, especially math and science. However, it IS true that the majority of schools with more resources tend to produce students with better outcomes.

Also, I am by no means suggesting that it is impossible for a poor school to have better outcomes than a rich school. In fact, my own high school (a poor inner city magnet school) consistently ranked better in some areas than the suburban schools that paid more property taxes. It just seems that these scenarios are not as likely, perhaps I am wrong.

I also completely agree that there are rich and poor people of every race. There are many rich blacks and many poor whites. However, it is also true that if you look at the data, blacks are disproportionately affected by poverty. This is true in every state that the populations are compared.

(Poverty by Race/Ethnicity is the name of the table on State Health Facts, I cannot post the link because I'm new.)

Finally, I believe you hit the nail on the head when you discussed socioeconomic status blacks and whites. As I said, I believe it is mostly a class issue. I feel that the executive order was primarily targeting students that are experiencing difficulties with educational attainment, which generally (not in all cases) precludes those that have higher SES regardless of race. This would include the issues of impoverished whites that you mention. Educational attainment is a problem for an entire economic demographic and is not exclusive to race. Those in poverty have lower educational attainment across the board regardless of race.

Percentage of 18- to 24-year-olds in poverty, by educational attainment, sex, and race/ethnicity: 2009 (National Center for Educational Statistics, again, I cannot post the link)

I do not think the government should distinguish by race as the executive order suggests, because it is a much broader issue. Also, I apologize for the lack of hyperlinks. I'm new so I can't yet post them.

Statistics have four main problems here:

1. Chicken/egg syndrome. MY contention is that attitude begets income AND education. Although you can see how I am logically right, and there are examples, people may figure that income or education may affect the other two.

2. Cheating. For various reasons, students AND faculty cheat which raises grades in some areas. It is probably FAR more likely that they RAISE grades rather than lowering, though I have known lowering to happen. One teacher admitted to NEVER giving As to ANYONE! Even when he admitted that, some of his students were even on the honor role, etc... It has been on the news several times. Teachers teaching students to pass state tests and standardized tests, like the SAT. Lying about credentials, and even getting fake degrees so they get paid more, etc...

3. Curriculums vary EVERYWHERE! Even fair grades may not be comparable. How do you compare a remedial math grade to calculus, especially if they may both have the same name. OH, I have been to a LOT of schools in the same state. They are VERY different. Sometimes the same class with the same teacher in the same school may be different depending on when it is.

4. Grade inflation. Not as much is expected, and people are graded on curves, etc... AGAIN, this makes lower grades appear higher. I have seen a lot of THIS first hand.

Steve

Hello, I am new member

Wildraine - then the answer is to target schools in poverty areas, not to award special favors to one race.

What you are seeing, Steve, is just another politician giving money to his favorite causes instead of taking care of the population in general. Poverty is poverty no matter who is experiencing it and money should go to the whole oppressed section of the population and let those who want to lift themselves with it take advantage of it - no matter what their race. Given the right tools, ANYONE can get out of poverty. Give EVERYONE that chance who needs it and then if the numbers are disproportionate, it's the fault of the people who did not take advantage of the tools.

Dumbing down America one child at a time - Leonard Pitts Jr. - MiamiHerald.com

Well, Pitts should not look at skin color, and look at some of the evidence he claims doesn't exist. If he wanted to talk about the dumbing down of america, he could point at a lot more things. And I could name some that here would be political, but I won't.

Why is potatoe seen as a FANTASTIC error and yet 58 doesn't cause one to blink an eye? Of course we could simply ask things like why that beauty contestant graduated and seemed t know NOTHIG about geography,, or how that math major graduated with honors and couldn't multiply 3 times 5.

Oh well...

Steve

I don't wanna get banned so I purposely avoided commenting in this thread but I can't take it anymore and I must defend math majors everywhere.

It's very easy for a math major especially one who is actively in school to forget his multiplication tables. I've done it and I hold a MS in mathematics. Ask around, most of us suck at arithmetic. I've had people ask me " So you're a math major. Does that mean you can add really fast in your head?" WTF!!!

People assume all mathematics is the same and it's not true. As crazy as it sounds, pure mathematics has little to do with arithmetic. After 3 semesters of Adv.Calc, Topology and Abstract Algebra, you're lucky if you remember how to count let alone the multiplication tables. I had to relearn long division to help my son with his homework, it didn't take long to refresh my memory but I would've looked like a fool if asked to divide on national tv.

Where our system has gone wrong is by letting folks go around thinking arithmetic and mathematics are one and the same. It's like asking a nautical engineer if he can fix the broken toilet on your yacht. Maybe he can...maybe he can't.

Halcyon,

I am the first to admit I am not great at math. But I really did mean 3 *5!
Anyway, sorry if that was something you considered unjust. And math DOES use arithmetic. Granted they have calculators NOW, but in the 60s there were few, if any. I guess that is ANOTHER way that they have grade inflation. It used to be that a simple calculator wasn't allowed for tests, and NOW they allow ones that are almost full computers.

And hopefully you see my point. Security and education transcend race or culture. That is to say that it should be done at such a level as to help everyone. Besides, if blacks and non blacks are in the same school, you have to wonder what the idea is. We even had court cases to try to end the question of a problem. I was in classes with blacks, in private and public schools, in several counties in california, and they got nothing different from anyone else. Besides, such talk often goes to others and they ALSO would complain. It would be better to have a law for all than several for a few. You really shouldn't have to consider the person's race.

Steve