Do you even care???

yushi1905

13 years ago

Try to change the way we live today. All of the problems started from there. It is actually more than 25,000 per day if you really read the latest stats.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619973].message }}

taskemann

13 years ago

Originally Posted by yushi1905

Try to change the way we live today. All of the problems started from there. It is actually more than 25,000 per day if you really read the latest stats.

No, it's not OUR fault. It's NOT the capitalism's fault and it's NOT "big bad" USA's fault. It's the religions', corrupt state leaders, the lack of liberty, the lack of freedom of speech and the lack of democracys' fault!

If all countries in the world would have the same economic model as the western capitalist countries, freedom of speech, democracy and "tamed" the religions' power & influence, the problems would have been solved!

They have to change THEIR way of life and not us because it works for us and they have to learn from us!

[ 2 ] Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7620478].message }}

Kay King 13 years ago

It's not about "fault" - it's circumstances. You can't accomplish anything by sitting around agonizing over masses of people dying or cruelty to animals or destruction of wildlife.

That's a feel good option. People love to talk about how caring they are and how something needs to be done....then they spend time talking about who or what is to blame.

My focus is on animals and I can't fix the world's problems. I can solve one problem at a time and that's what I've done for years. I can't count the number of strays and abused animals I've taken in and found good homes for or the number of times I've taught a pet owner how to treat or train his animals in a humane way.

You have an opportunity to make a life better every day - but you can't do it by throwing money at a problem or anguishing over what's wrong in the world. You have to get your hands dirty and do what you can where you are. You have to spend your time and resources to fix one small problem - if everyone did that many big problems would become smaller.
- [ 3 ] Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
what it is instead of what you think it should be.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7620556].message }}
- Joe Mobley 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  I can't count the number of strays and abused animals I've taken in and found good homes for...
  
  Of course this could mean ex-husbands and ex-boyfriends for some people. :rolleyes:
  
  I'm just saying.
  
  Joe Mobley
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  .
  Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7626200].message }}

Tina Golden

13 years ago

Originally Posted by taskemann

If all countries in the world would have the same economic model as the western capitalist countries, freedom of speech, democracy and "tamed" the religions' power & influence, the problems would have been solved!

If this were true, then America wouldn't have children who go to bed hungry and families who were homeless.

[ 4 ] Thanks
4 replies

Signature

Discover how to have fabulous, engaging content with
Fast & Easy Content Creation
***Especially if you don't have enough time, money, or just plain HATE writing***

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627232].message }}

AprilCT

13 years ago

I wasn't aware that the early Christians were "vegetarians" -- at least not by choice, since most were the poor and outcast and couldn't afford meat other than as a lucky, once in a blue moon luxury to get some. Persecution and hiding further hindered many of them from growing their own food and livestock, so it is reasonable to think they had to eat bread and vegetables to survive. Those who could fish probably did so.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627317].message }}

HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

I wasn't aware that the early Christians were "vegetarians" -- at least not by choice, since most were the poor and outcast and couldn't afford meat other than as a lucky, once in a blue moon luxury to get some. Persecution and hiding further hindered many of them from growing their own food and livestock, so it is reasonable to think they had to eat bread and vegetables to survive. Those who could fish probably did so.

Well, Jesus was okay with fish if I remember rightly. Not sure HOW strict vegetarian they were. There's a lot of degrees of vegetarian - from those who will eat fish and poultry to all out vegan, not even dairy is okay. Of course, there were already a lot of Christians around when Jesus showed up, too. Hard to say from old texts (scrolls) exactly how much the religion mutated with the appearance of the messiah.

Would be interesting to see what those early devotees would think of today's GMO salmon, eh? WIth all the crap they are doing to our food in the name of "increased yields" - which has been proven false btw - it's getting hard to worry about what others are going through when you are busy defending your own ability to survive without massive tumors.

One thing that GMO food does is sterilize, though, and that is why it's being pushed so hard. Just the other day there were quotes coming out from Bill Gates about using vaccines as sterilization tools - that's why those are being pushed so hard now. Frankly, if we don't start seeing a negative population growth as in yesterday, we're all pretty screwed.

Thanks

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628150].message }}

globalseopoint 13 years ago

so many times I heard this. But then I see nothing. Things I can do is too small.
Every day, I ask myself
what will I have to do to be a man
Do I have, to stand and fight
To prove to everybody who I am
Is that what my life is for?
To waste in a world full of war
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7762160].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

If this were true, then America wouldn't have children who go to bed hungry and families who were homeless.

Not exactly true! Still, taskemann wasn't saying if any ONE did, but if ALL did. That would mean FEWER people, FEWER abortions, no illegals, FAR less corruption, etc.... One recent non event, not reported much in the news, cost $20 million! Many others cost BILLIONS EACH! A lot of tests that have been done THOUSANDS of times and always failed, cost TRILLIONS! IMAGINE if that money were allowed to flow for JUST things!

It is INCREDIBLE how much is spent on GARBAGE!

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627442].message }}

Tina Golden

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Not exactly true! Still, taskemann wasn't saying if any ONE did, but if ALL did. That would mean FEWER people, FEWER abortions, no illegals, FAR less corruption, etc.... One recent non event, not reported much in the news, cost $20 million! Many others cost BILLIONS EACH! A lot of tests that have been done THOUSANDS of times and always failed, cost TRILLIONS! IMAGINE if that money were allowed to flow for JUST things!

It is INCREDIBLE how much is spent on GARBAGE!

Steve

Steve, I don't know where the heck you were going with this, but it makes no sense at all from here.

How would all the countries turning into republics, like America (it's not a democracy, guys) - anyway, how would that equal to fewer people or fewer abortions? Maybe it would stop illegals, although I doubt it, and maybe there would be less corruption - again, I doubt it.

We have plenty of corruption right here in our 'democratic' USA so I don't see how it would slow corruption down to have other countries adopt the same type of government.

And what the heck to tests have to do with the price of tea in China?

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Discover how to have fabulous, engaging content with
Fast & Easy Content Creation
***Especially if you don't have enough time, money, or just plain HATE writing***

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627460].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

Steve, I don't know where the heck you were going with this, but it makes no sense at all from here.

How would all the countries turning into republics, like America (it's not a democracy, guys) - anyway, how would that equal to fewer people or fewer abortions? Maybe it would stop illegals, although I doubt it, and maybe there would be less corruption - again, I doubt it.

A LOT of time, money, effort is sent trying to make places like the US into NON capitalist societies. Republics would be more like democracies if all could agree, etc... The church dictates some things causing more people to be born. THAT encourages later abortions. A LOT of corruption is tied to the above.

We have plenty of corruption right here in our 'democratic' USA so I don't see how it would slow corruption down to have other countries adopt the same type of government.

Look at the above statement. That applies to the US as well!!!! The US should be the US! If people don't try to morph it into something else, SO much could IMPROVE!

And what the heck to tests have to do with the price of tea in China?

Well, the dollar would be worth more, and there would be less business in china, so I guess the price of tea would DROP!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627788].message }}

sivricmarijan 13 years ago

I agree with Tina...Americans also have poverty problems!
- Thanks
Signature

==== A step-by-step strategy guide on how to earn $$$ thousands per month ====
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628076].message }}

taskemann

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Tina Golden

If this were true, then America wouldn't have children who go to bed hungry and families who were homeless.

But if you compare these "poor" people with poor people from unstable 3'rd world countries, they are actually not so poor because I don't think you starve to death in America. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But there are good and bad times everywhere. For example when my dad was a kid for 45-50 years ago, it wasn't uncommon that children went to bed hungry. And it was normal to only have 2 sets of clothes. And having meat for dinner? They could only aford to eat meat in the Christmas times. Fish and potatoes was the common, daily diet. And that was only 45 years ago.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631376].message }}

yukon

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by taskemann

But if you compare these "poor" people with poor people from unstable 3'rd world countries, they are actually not so poor because I don't think you starve to death in America. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But there are good and bad times everywhere. For example when my dad was a kid for 45-50 years ago, it wasn't uncommon that children went to bed hungry. And it was normal to only have 2 sets of clothes. And having meat for dinner? They could only aford to eat meat in the Christmas times. Fish and potatoes was the common, daily diet. And that was only 45 years ago.

Fish isn't meat? :confused:

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631444].message }}

taskemann 13 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Fish isn't meat? :confused:

No. Fish is fish and meat is meat.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631471].message }}
- seasoned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by taskemann
  
  No. Fish is fish and meat is meat.
  
  Meat typically means muscle used for food, so fish IS meat!!!!!
  
  Steve
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7633256].message }}

Jeff Williams

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

I do care. It's hard not to when you see things like all the starving people in Africa, for example.

I guess I'm like a lot of folks when I look at the big picture and the immensity and sheer number of injustices in the world. I think, "what can I do -- is my $50 donation to charity really going to change things at all?"

Then I remember an old proverb to not curse the day of small beginnings.

Changing the hearts and minds of people or steering governments into becoming more benevolent is a long term process. And a worthy goal.

But, in the meantime, people are dying.

And even though I may look at my small gifts of time and money as inconsequential, they help.

I cannot cure today. But, I can help.

And, more importantly, I can encourage others to help as well. And the easiest way I know to motivate people into giving to others is to tell their story.

You see, most of us today can easily turn a blind eye to "starving kids in Africa". Because that thought is as distant as the miles between us.

But, if I were to show a picture of a child to you and say, "This is Jaden. His family hasn't eaten in four days. Can you help?" -- it's easier for them to say yes.

We forget that these are REAL people who need our help. Not our cure, but our help. Now. They won't make it a few more weeks if we pass them by.

I'll admit, I've been guilty of trying to devise a world outlook. How to cure poverty. How to cure famine. How to cure homelessness, cancer, animal abuse, hatred, racism, and on and on. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's a worthwhile pursuit.

But, I have to remember to focus myself on one person to help today. I look at my 3-year old niece, Sarah, and realize that somewhere there is a 3-year old girl -- her name is _______ -- and she doesn't have any food or clean water today. Can I help?

Yeah. Yeah ... I can do that.

[ 3 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7620386].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

If nobody suffered such hardships, the way things are going, this world would probably be *****DEAD***** as far as humans are concerned. Frankly, I wish there weren't as many born. That would be BEST! People talk about it like it is caring and money. It ISN'T! If all cared, and paid, the world would be broke, and MORE people would be dying.

Do you REALIZE that the tiny stat you mentioned is like half the population of the STATE of new york EVERY YEAR? I believe New york is the most populated state in the US! New york CITY only has ALMOST as many as the number of people you said are killed in a year(only 8,244,910, and NOT the 9125000 of your stat), and is the 19th most populated city on the PLANET! It IS the most populated city in the US, last I heard.

IMAGINE THOUGH! In 33 years, that is enough to overshadow the ENTIRE US! And I DO believe your stat is LOW! MANY that die are probably not even COUNTED!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7620446].message }}

mojojuju

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured

Maybe if we combine these two problems, there's a solution to one of them. :rolleyes:

Thanks

Signature

:)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7620697].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

To hell with the animals. People are starving.

At one point, they said animals went to heaven. In another, they say tha, in heaven, all the animals get along. NAW, lets send the humans to hell. Leave the animals alone.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7621247].message }}

alistair

13 years ago

I've never really thought to myself do I actually care people are starving, but now I have thought about it then no, I probably don't. Do I feel sorry for people that are starving then yes, but if I really cared then I'd try to do something about it, but I don't because that's life I suppose.

Do I care animals are tortured and killed then that's slightly different. I don't like seeing animals tortured and it makes me feel sick and angry when I see it, especially the obvious chinese fur farms and things like that. I try not to watch these things anymore, although I was tempted to watch Earthlings but I know it would just make me feel bad, but truthfully, after it was finished I'd just carry on with life as usual. I suppose it's kind of out of sight, out of mind.

Personally I think if animals are killed as humanely as possible then that's how it should be done, but when I'm eating beef, lamb or whatever meat it is I never really consider how the animal has been killed or treated, it's just food so maybe I'm a hypocrite.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7621343].message }}

ptaylor98

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

The internet is the best vehicle for helping these international issues. Start a website, post on blogs, Twitter, Google+, and get involved! "Communication causes a world that works."

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7621368].message }}

eekern

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ptaylor98

The internet is the best vehicle for helping these international issues. Start a website, post on blogs, Twitter, Google+, and get involved! "Communication causes a world that works."

- Amen to that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n1p9P5ee3c

Thanks

Signature

We create systems for course creators who are passionate about creating lasting results for their clients.

https://beta.pathlevels.com/

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628465].message }}

Josh Monroe

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

Care or not, these problems aren't going anywhere anytime soon. In fact, it's probably impossible to fix them anyways.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7621800].message }}

seasoned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Josh Monroe

Care or not, these problems aren't going anywhere anytime soon. In fact, it's probably impossible to fix them anyways.

I said earlier it was impossible. I could state HUNDREDS of factual first hand proof, but let's talk about one person I knew about. She got a grant for education. GREAT, HUH? She used it to move from florida to california. She then lived in the same place on section 8 and WIC for at least 10 years. She claimed to be christian, but only her daughter went, and SHE was driven by others.

What did the mother do all day? Smoked and chatted! SERIOUSLY!

Or what about the father? Probably ALSO on some kind of welfare. Doped up his son, who we are probably STILL paying for(I knew them about 15 years ago), watched TV and drank beer all day.

Those people, and MANY like them, don't WANT help.

I knew ANOTHER that STANK of SULFUR! WHY? Rather than LITERALLY, or FIGURATIVELY trying to get back on his feet, he bummed off money AND, when he was at home, sculpted clay. The CLAY stank of sulfur.

Even the stories about the poor that become rich and help out others probably start with a person that is TRYING.

Steve
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624746].message }}

Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

I think everyone but the most heartless cares, at least to some degree. Caring and knowing what to do about it are two different things. These things have been with us since the dawn of time and haven't been solved yet. If it seems like people don't care, perhaps it's because they have no solution, so they block it out as best they can so as not to remain in a perpetual state of heartache.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7622105].message }}

HeySal

13 years ago

The only thing we CAN do about it is to help someone/some animal on an individual basis - govs send aid and other govs keep it for themselves - Non-profits, the same, most goes to the executive salaries. As population rises, more people are going to starve and more animals will be tortured and killed by humans who are going very literally crazy from chemical poisoning.

What can you do? Stop having kids and start adopting those already here until we get the population back under numbers guaranteed to generate human extinction.

Save animals? Simple - put some led between the abuser's eyes. That's the only way to stop that one. Unfortunately illegal, however. Only the dangerous are protected in this global control nightmare we're part of right now.

[ 4 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7622148].message }}

Dennis Gaskill 13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

The only thing we CAN do about it is to help someone/some animal on an individual basis - govs send aid and other govs keep it for themselves -

And that's why the majority of my charity dollars stay local, other than donating to Red Cross when there are big disasters like Hurrucanes Katrina or Sandy.
- [ 3 ] Thanks
Signature

Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7622166].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

The only thing we CAN do about it is to help someone/some animal on an individual basis - govs send aid and other govs keep it for themselves - Non-profits, the same, most goes to the executive salaries. As population rises, more people are going to starve and more animals will be tortured and killed by humans who are going very literally crazy from chemical poisoning.

Yeah, It is amazing how many african "rulers" got richer than some VERY rich people in places where even $5000 would be tantamount to making them a king. And they got it from places like the US to help the area. It never got to the area.

Besides, estimates are that the US government takes like 80% of every dollar donated. and that is in THIS INSTANT! This BLINK of an eye! They retroactively take a LOT of it every now and then. They may call it "inflating the money supply" or "quantitative easing" or "inflating", but that is all it is! It is JUST like a stock split, but THEY keep the new shares.

Let's assume that the value of apples shares remained CONSTANT, and apply this to what REALLY happened with apples shares, ok? ALL stock splits HAPPEN to be 2 for one.

In 1994 it was about $17 or so as I recall. OK, you buy 100 shares! You have 100
In 2000 they SPLIT! CONGRATS! You have 200 shares! They are worth HALF as much, but you have TWICE as many! And NOW, if the shares of apple increase a dollar, you get TWO dollars for ever share you had!
In 2005 they split AGAIN! CONGRATS! You now have FOUR hundred shares! If the shares increase a dollar, you get FOUR dollars for every share you had.

NOW, apple was/is NOT a closed system! They take money, research, effort, and produce something of value to MAKE money! So the value of the shares went up. One reason they split was to make themselves more affordable, but they also get more shares so more people can own a piece and drive company value up.

APPLE gives investors the extra shares. Shares they ORIGINALLY held back ALSO grow, but they were held back, so the split doesn't affect the overall value.

The fiat governments do the SAME thing, but THEY get the new shares. The outstanding shares STILL lose value though.

So that 80% they took grows and grows and grows. In the weimar republic in germany, this made a difference in HOURS! And that is how THEY "make" money.

Steve

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7622513].message }}

Kay King

13 years ago

To hell with the animals. People are starving.

I must be a mirror image - I see that in reverse

[ 9 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

One secret to happiness is to let every situation be

what it is instead of what you think it should be.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623158].message }}

AprilCT

13 years ago

If you want to donate to charity, then go look them up and see how well they are doing. There are various sites on the net like charity navigator that helps rate them so you can make better decisions. Many so-called charitable organizations have far too high overhead, and they should be ignored.

By the way, here in the U.S., there are more than plenty of people starving, mentally ill or poor and living on the streets, criminals and loads of unwanted animals. Many of these people are your neighbors, friends and relatives in need of not only a hand out but a hand up. The big question is why are we sending billions overseas when so many people right here are so hard hit. Family should, at a minimum, take care of their own. I don't believe that the majority of the charity the government sends overseas finds its way to helping the actual needy -- other organizations could do it a lot better and get better results.

I am not against sending money to charities to help the hungry overseas, but I do believe we need to take much better care of and protect our own as well. Those who belong to a house of worship often have many opportunities to donate as well as learn whether the charitable operation running is worthwhile. There's no need to throw money into the wind and just hope it winds up somewhere appropriate.

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623373].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

Many of these people are your neighbors, friends and relatives in need of not only a hand out but a hand up.

This is SO overused that many may not see what it means. I see it as:

hand out= a normally small amount/thing given out often for short term sustenance. The old "give a person a fish" thing.

hand up=an often larger task, or set of tasks to get one into a given area. HERE, it would be society. The old "TEACH a person to fish" thing.

The big question is why are we sending billions overseas when so many people right here are so hard hit. Family should, at a minimum, take care of their own. I don't believe that the majority of the charity the government sends overseas finds its way to helping the actual needy -- other organizations could do it a lot better and get better results.

That has been MY complaint for a LONG time. It is cheaper, often more effective, feeds on itself, and helps EVERYONE HERE! By feeds on itself I mean that those helped may end up helping still MORE, and ALL benefit, including those overseas, ironically. Give abroad, and you may find everyone goes down hill. That is ESPECIALLY true because there is little desire, incentive, or ability to teach those to fish.

I HAVE heard stories about down and out people HERE getting helped, becoming rich, and donating all over the place. It apparently is not THAT uncommon.

steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624712].message }}

HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The good thing about animals is that most of them will eat you given the opportunity.

Seriously, though, people who want to help animals instead of humans deserve to be robbed by hungry humans.

Oh, and have their dogs and cats eaten, too.

Considering it's the stupidity of humans that think we have to reproduce like rabbits and until we kill every other life form on earth - sorry, I'd rather help the animals who are dying off because of our ignorance and selfishness and let humans go extinct. Every other life form, plant and animal, would be able to survive if we didn't.

We are over carrying capacity - we are going to die off. It's called the Natural order. When the dominant species over breeds during conducive conditions, they strip their resources and die out. We have done that. And - despite what people WANT to think - we are a part of nature, not above it.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623936].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

We are over carrying capacity - we are going to die off. It's called the Natural order. When the dominant species over breeds during conducive conditions, they strip their resources and die out. We have done that. And - despite what people WANT to think - we are a part of nature, not above it.

I was just reading something similar to the subject matter here a few days ago in this lost spiritual text. Its a gnostic teaching of Jesus that is not in the current cannonized Bible: The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene. I relate to it more than I do most of the teaching that actually was canonized though.

In this text, he talks more like Einstein.

The fact that the text has been damaged and isnt complete is one of my greatest complaints in life, because its an awesome teaching and some of it is missing.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623949].message }}

HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

I was just reading something similar to the subject matter here a few days ago in this lost spiritual text. Its a gnostic teaching of Jesus that is not in the current cannonized Bible: The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene. I relate to it more than I do most of the teaching that actually was canonized though.

In this text, he talks more like Einstein.

The fact that the text has been damaged and isnt complete is one of my greatest complaints in life, because its an awesome teaching and some of it is missing.

There are a lot of his actual texts that didn't make it into the bible. There's a lot that was edited out by King James in order to have a stronger hold on people, too. The first Christians were vegetarians, if that tells you anything.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7626423].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

There are a lot of his actual texts that didn't make it into the bible. There's a lot that was edited out by King James in order to have a stronger hold on people, too. The first Christians were vegetarians, if that tells you anything.

Well, some DID eat fish!

How did the king james version create more of a hold? It got rid of some catholic parts, and apparently allowed divorce. It DID say that you had to be a married father with a family to head a congregation.(See timothy!). Only a few catholic books aren't i the other bible, and some new books(that DON'T create a stronger hold) were added.

None of the books were changed, though the addition of timothy IS against catholic tradition. And wasn't the king james the FIRST english version? The catholic bible was originally in LATIN, that many didn't know, and prior to that was hebrew and greek.

ALSO, a person by the name of Martin Luther created the SAME sort of bible for germans, creating the lutheran denomination. To speak against a time someone "corrected" me, I mean FIRST NAME: MARTIN! LAST NAME: LUTHER born in the 15th century Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Surprisingly, someone once "corrected" me by saying his last name was KING, referring to the guy born in the US like 500 years later!

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627177].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

ALSO, a person by the name of Martin Luther created the SAME sort of bible for germans, creating the lutheran denomination. To speak against a time someone "corrected" me, I mean FIRST NAME: MARTIN! LAST NAME: LUTHER born in the 15th century Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Surprisingly, someone once "corrected" me by saying his last name was KING, referring to the guy born in the US like 500 years later!

Steve

Waaaaaay more than "create the Lutheran denomination" -

Thank God for Martin Luther and THE CHRISTIAN REFORMATION.

Made it clear the Catholic church IS APOSTATE - (... AND they killed so many Christians) and they are so far off base with their 'Mariology' (cult of Mary). It gives me chills like the 'Exorcist' (I am rabidly EX-Catholic just like Martin Luther).

Of course if you read Revelation every church 'candlestick' has errors. No **** sherlock. Omigod if they knew the televangelists were coming it would have 2 more chapters.

... and don't forget it was religion that killed Jesus.

It's not a nice thing. So don't get confused.

'a little leaven got in to the Gospel (from the devil) and it is now called Christendom'.
the Gospel needed a recovery. for the truth to be told.

Just see Jesus knocking over the tables in the temple.

Oh, my militant, radical Savior, I adore HIM!

Thanks
3 replies

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627932].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

Waaaaaay more than "create the Lutheran denomination" -

Thank God for Martin Luther and THE CHRISTIAN REFORMATION.

Made it clear the Catholic church is full of murderous malarkie - (they killed so many Christians) and they are so far off base with their 'Mariology' (cult of Mary). It gives me chills like the Exorcist (I am rabidly EX-Catholic just like Martin Luther).

Of course if you read Revelation every church 'candlestick' has errors. No **** sherlock. Omigod if they knew the televangelists were coming it would have 2 more chapters.

... and don't forget it was religion that killed Jesus.

It's not a nice thing. So don't get confused.

'a little leaven got in (from the devil) and it is now called Christendom'.

yukky - phoney crap.

Just see Jesus knocking over the tables in the temple.

My militant, radical Savior!

For many years, even after persecuting Christians, the Catholics wanted to take credit for "Saint Peter", saying he was the first Pope, and that he was buried in Rome, despite any evidence to back that claim, however that lie has also been recently exposed and his sarcophagus was found elsewhere.

This is a lie that has been perpetuated for 100 years now.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627945].message }}

kenmichaels

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

Made it clear the Catholic church is full of murderous malarkie - (they killed so many Christians) and they are so far off base with their 'Mariology' (cult of Mary). It gives me chills like the 'Exorcist'

I was born catholic.. raised catholic.. and i CAN NOT agree with you more.

Originally Posted by Patrician

(I am rabidly EX-Catholic just like Martin Luther).

SO AM I... but there are some things that are SO indoctrinated into me , i still cant shake them.. EVEN thou I know better.

John i sent you PM brotha

[ 2 ] Thanks

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628026].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

Waaaaaay more than "create the Lutheran denomination" -

YEAH, I KNOW! He spread the word more, apparently was a good example, unified the german language, etc.... I heard a story from a lady at the lutheran hospital here that was AGHAST that an amish person didn't know who martin luther was! I was aghast ALSO! The amish came from germany and you can bet they came with bibles CLOSELY related to lutheran.

Thank God for Martin Luther and THE CHRISTIAN REFORMATION.

Made it clear the Catholic church IS APOSTATE - (... AND they killed so many Christians) and they are so far off base with their 'Mariology' (cult of Mary). It gives me chills like the 'Exorcist' (I am rabidly EX-Catholic just like Martin Luther).

Yeah, people have ENOUGH trouble with ONE virgin birth, but two or three? YIKES! And if mary's mother were a virgin, then why were people so surprised at mary being a virgin?

Don't get me started THERE!

Of course if you read Revelation every church 'candlestick' has errors. No **** sherlock. Omigod if they knew the televangelists were coming it would have 2 more chapters.

... and don't forget it was religion that killed Jesus.

actually, the bible teaches that it was psuedo religious nut jobs. They used religion as a cover.

It's not a nice thing. So don't get confused.

'a little leaven got in to the Gospel (from the devil) and it is now called Christendom'.
the Gospel needed a recovery. for the truth to be told.

Just see Jesus knocking over the tables in the temple.

Oh, my militant, radical Savior, I adore HIM!

For the record, NEITEHR of us is proselytizing, and we are just having a nice discussion, so **I** don't consider it religion. Hopefully Paul won't either. I appreciate your zeal though.

Steve

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7629317].message }}

Kay King 13 years ago

Start a website, post on blogs, Twitter, Google+, and get involved!

To an extent that it educates others, it's useful to an extent.

What I often see are people proselytizing and agonizing on blogs and social media - instead of getting their hands dirty and DOING something.

They post and tweet - and walk away feeling "involved" when in truth they accomplished nothing. They talked at a problem and think that's "doing something". Being "concerned" doesn't feed a dog or a person unless you act on the concern by providing food!

I watched a commercial last night with big name Hollywood stars "speaking out against guns" - and every single one of them stars in violent movies where guns are prominently portrayed as "an answer to a problem". Talk is cheap.
- [ 2 ] Thanks
Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
what it is instead of what you think it should be.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7629584].message }}

whateverpedia

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

There are a lot of his actual texts that didn't make it into the bible. There's a lot that was edited out by King James in order to have a stronger hold on people, too. The first Christians were vegetarians, if that tells you anything.

By "Christians" are you referring to the Essenes, of which Jehoshuah (Jesus) is alleged to have been a member?

Christianity didn't get started for a generation after the crucifixion. As I've stated before on another post, what we call Christianity should actually be called Paulianity, as it is based on Paul's interpretation/version of events rather than on Jehoshuah's teachings.

Whereas King Jimbo did have parts of the Bible edited to suit himself, the real deciders of what would be included, and what wasn't, in the Bible are those who were present at the Council Of Nicaea in the year 325CE convened by the Roman Emperor Constantine.

It was they that decided what Christianity should consist of and which texts were to be used in the Bible. These choices were made to suit an agenda, rather than the truth. The texts which were chosen had already been edited and "modified" to suit the agenda/interpretation of the scribe involved anyway, and were subsequently edited/modified to suit the concensus that was reached at the Council.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are probably the purest version of the real events as they weren't interfered with by subsequent generations and (self) interest groups. It's believed by scholars that the Scrolls were written by the Essenes and are roughly contempary to the life and times of Jehoshuah.

[ 2 ] Thanks

Signature

Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?

So that blind people can hate them as well.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628369].message }}

Jeff Williams

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Yeah, It is amazing how many african "rulers" got richer than some VERY rich people in places where even $5000 would be tantamount to making them a king. And they got it from places like the US to help the area. It never got to the area.

Besides, estimates are that the US government takes like 80% of every dollar donated.

I have no idea if this is true, Steve. Although, it wouldn't surprise me. I just hope folks don't become too desensitized and grow too accustomed to their skepticism. Because there are many ways to make a real impact on people's lives, whether they live in Kentucky or Kenya.

If you wanted to get the most bang for your buck when it comes to giving to charity and make sure those who need your help the most actually gets it, then the solution is relatively simple ...

Give it to Christian missionary programs.

Hold on, hold on ... I know what you're probably thinking. Christian missionary programs? What if I'm not Christian? What if I'm a devout atheist who doesn't want the Gospel of Christ preached, but I still want to do God's work by helping the poor?

No problem. Think about it for a second ...

Christian organizations are the most regulated and scrutinized entities known to mankind. If $1 of the money they collect is misspent, there are usually indictments, loss of 501(c)3 tax-exempt status, government asset seizures, and of course, a damning expose' on 20/20.

So, there's no way Christian missionary leaders are going to risk their life's work on a new Mercedes. Mega-church leaders, maybe. I don't know. But Christian missionary programs? No way.

So, we know our donations are much safer in their hands than any secular and secretive government. But, let's say we're still skeptical. Then we should probably take a closer look ...

I'm just going to give two examples, although there are many more opportunities to help starving people that don't involve direct involvement from political "leaders".

Here are two rather large Christian missionary programs that get the job done. You'll notice because they operate in the 10's of millions. I chose them specifically because they draw the most hate. Anytime a marketer, celebrity, corporation, investor, and yes, Christian organization becomes successful and rakes in large dollar amounts, they are immediately villified and persecuted. It's inevitable. So, let's go with the pariahs...

1. Life Outreach International

Operates throughout Africa, South America, and India. Especially in areas where civil war and famine have been most prevalent. Some of their outreaches include:

Water for Life - digs fresh water wells so villages can refrain from drinking out of mud puddles

Mission Feeding - ongoing program that delivers food to all of the areas of drought and famine

Survive Under 5 - emergency medical care for children who are dying

Mission RescueLife - rescues young girls and women from human trafficking in Thailand, Romania, Cambodia, India ...

The list goes on and on. For year ending 2011, the financials were ...

Total Revenues: $62 million

Administrative: $4 million

Fundraising: $9 million

Program: $45 million

Excess: $3 million (this is usually money allocated to start new missions)

So, as you can see, roughly 72% of each dollar you invest in these programs goes directly to the people it is intended to help.

Link: Outreaches | LIFE Outreach International

Link: LIFE Outreach International Association of Churches (Accredited Organization Profile) - ECFA.org

2. Feed The Children

Originally started out feeding poor families all across America and are now expanding rapidly around the world. As the name suggests, the mission is to feed hungry children. But they also serve well in supplies, schooling, disaster relief, and much more. Tons of opportunities to give.

Financials 2011:

Total Revenue: $436 million

Administrative: $19 million

Fundraising: $39 million

Program: $368 million

So, that's 86% of every dollar donated that goes exactly to the poor it is intended to help.

Link: http://www.feedthechildren.org

Link: Charity Navigator Rating - Feed The Children

The truth is, I don't know exactly how much our government really spends dollar-wise on foreign aid. According to PBS, for 2010 it was 1% total. And that's usually to build up international militaries, not help starving kids in Africa.

Domestically, our corrupt federal government has managed to drive what little welfare programs we have into almost certain bankruptcy and hyper-regulate them all to the point that they help almost no one, save the elderly that are still able to eek out a meager existence through SS and Medicare ... as long as they live in Alabama, Kentucky, or West Virginia where cost of living is still relatively low.

There are also many secular charities that are also doing good in water and food missions. Just remember, because they are less regulated apart from standard non-profit org laws, they are subject to far more corruption than a Christian missionary program.

Here's a few, in case giving to a Christian organization causes incessant teeth-grinding and explosive bouts of profanity from you:

Link: 10 Best Secular Non-Profits | with beans

So, what' the point I'm making? That blanket statements like "the government takes 80% of your donations" without any proof just makes people distrustful. "I woulda helped that hungry African kid. But evil Christians and my big, bad gov'ment won't let me. Guess I'll just have to go buy another flat-screen TV before I eats my steak and lobster dinner tonight. Sorry little Ghalyela Okeke. Enjoy your insect and mud puddle stew."

Forgive me if I offend. It's really not my intent. But if we're going to play "sweeping generalizations" about everything, I have to stand up for the things that are truly important. Like supporting the brave people who risk their lives everyday to make sure hurting folks can at least get a drink and a bite to eat everyday.

It's important. And causing people to be so fearful that it prevents them from giving to worthwhile causes is foolish and counter-productive.

We've got lots of problems. Worldwide.

This is a triage situation.

We help the dying first. Then, the sick, the diseased, the tortured and abused. Somewhere down the line, we complain about government idiocy. But not if it causes people to give up on helping those less fortunate.

If we were to put as much effort into researching all the outstanding charites to support as we do our portfolios and investments, we might find better uses for our money.

Today, in just a few clicks, and from thousandsof miles away, I can help people to keep from starving to death. For the first time in history. Show me a new stock, bond or commodity investment that can do that.

Truth is, if you want to hold on to your money with fear and trembling ... then do that. And let that be your only reason.

But, if you truly do care about others and want to help out, governments can't stop you. Dictators can't stop you. Tribal leaders can't stop you. You find a way.

I've shown you a few. The question is, what will you do with that knowledge? Today, folks seem to be rushing around buying up guns and canned food in the off chance that they may live a few years longer through a hellish crisis sometime in the future.

That's the hype.

Today, 25,000 people will die of hunger and hunger-related complications. Here's the real-time names and faces ...

Link: Poverty.com - Hunger and World Poverty

That's the reality.

[ 2 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623431].message }}

Ken Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

WOW!!
My first time back and first post since having a stroke over a year ago....

Do I care? You bet ya!!
Am I going to do anything about it?
F#ck You!

Do you care? Lead by example... Pal!
Don't come and work on my guilt.

The best way that you can help them is by going out and doing and sharing your knowledge, while you can.

Damn! Some things never change!!!

Sorry folks and sorry OP.... and sorry admin...
But lay off the guilt, would ya? We have enough to deal with as it is without the sprinkle of salt in our wounds...

[ 2 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

yes, I am....

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623417].message }}

Dennis Gaskill

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Durham

WOW!!
My first time back and first post since having a stroke over a year ago....

Do I care? You bet ya!!
Am I going to do anything about it?
F#ck You!

Do you care? Lead by example... Pal!
Don't come and work on my guilt.

The best way that you can help them is by going out and doing and sharing your knowledge, while you can.

Damn! Some things never change!!!

Sorry folks and sorry OP.... and sorry admin...
But lay off the guilt, would ya? We have enough to deal with as it is without the sprinkle of salt in our wounds...

Um ... welcome back! Glad you've recovered enough to be back.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623644].message }}

seasoned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Durham

WOW!!
My first time back and first post since having a stroke over a year ago....

WOW, I'm sorry to hear you had a stroke. I hope you're ok. You don't ound like you are letting it hold you back.

Steve
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624721].message }}

yukon

Banned 13 years ago

If an adult gets hungry enough, they'll do something about it. Or just sit there, do nothing, eat nothing.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623530].message }}

Dan Hower

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

I think no one killed or mistreats animals without getting paid for it. Each of us can stop that very easy, however, not with donations to charity.

Just stop buying animal products, be it meat, cheese or other things.

As soon as the killers and torturers on animal farms and in slaughterhouses and butcheries don't get money any more, they will stop what they did.

With those people dying of hunger it is a different story. I don't know what to do.

Thanks
3 replies

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623544].message }}

mojojuju

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Hower

Just stop buying animal products, be it meat, cheese or other things.

As soon as the killers and torturers on animal farms and in slaughterhouses and butcheries don't get money any more, they will stop what they did.

With those people dying of hunger it is a different story. I don't know what to do.

Maybe they can be fed the animal products when we stop buying them.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

:)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623591].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

Maybe they can be fed the animal products when we stop buying them.

So we ENCOURAGE a problem(SUPPOSEDLY) by giving products to other people that we get because we FEIGN to discourage the problem by not taking it OURSELVES? WOW!

And we will have MORE needy people that need the food because of all the people that become unemployed because we didn't take it ourself.

BTW that is called theft(Taking the cattle without paying for them), and hypocrisy(Doing/encouraging what you tell others not to).

Steve

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624785].message }}

mojojuju

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

So we ENCOURAGE a problem(SUPPOSEDLY) by giving products to other people that we get because we FEIGN to discourage the problem by not taking it OURSELVES? WOW!

And we will have MORE needy people that need the food because of all the people that become unemployed because we didn't take it ourself.

BTW that is called theft(Taking the cattle without paying for them), and hypocrisy(Doing/encouraging what you tell others not to).

Steve

I was kidding!

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

:)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7629760].message }}

seasoned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

I was kidding!

THESE DAYS, it is hard to tell.

Steve
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7630112].message }}

yushi1905

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

To hell with the animals. People are starving.

Well we can come to this conclusion if we can totally live without animals. The problem is, most of us can't. Our food, our lives, or clothes came from them. Animal's problem is our problem too.

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I think everyone but the most heartless cares, at least to some degree. Caring and knowing what to do about it are two different things. These things have been with us since the dawn of time and haven't been solved yet. If it seems like people don't care, perhaps it's because they have no solution, so they block it out as best they can so as not to remain in a perpetual state of heartache.

Most of the people are heartless because they think that their little effort wouldn't be able to help much. So, why bother?

Originally Posted by Dan Hower

I think no one killed or mistreats animals without getting paid for it. Each of us can stop that very easy, however, not with donations to charity.

Just stop buying animal products, be it meat, cheese or other things.

As soon as the killers and torturers on animal farms and in slaughterhouses and butcheries don't get money any more, they will stop what they did.

With those people dying of hunger it is a different story. I don't know what to do.

I do agree that giving money to the charity is not the best solution. It would only encourage them to build more charity homes and come out with more charity organizations. That would not be helping but it will only encourage people to live in poverty knowing that help will always come their way. Of course, we can't deny the efforts of some of the organizations that used the donation in effective ways that individuals like us alone wouldn't be able to do so.

Animal farms and starving people are related to each other. People are eating meat more than ever. Instead of growing plants for ourselves, we grow plants in order to feed the animals in the animal farms. So that we can have nice beef and pork in our daily menu. We use more lands and other resources like water and fossil fuel to grow those plant. The animals need home. So lands were used up. It'll move on with deforestation, climate change, acid rain and more pollution. The prices of those resources increase. This will directly affects the economy on the other sides and those people over there are starving because of our lifestyles.

Of course we can still eat meat. Nobody can force us to give up our favorite meat as long as it is ethical. We could eat less meat. Choose to eat organic raised animals rather than factory raised animals.

[ 2 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623663].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Hower

I think no one killed or mistreats animals without getting paid for it. Each of us can stop that very easy, however, not with donations to charity.

Just stop buying animal products, be it meat, cheese or other things.

As soon as the killers and torturers on animal farms and in slaughterhouses and butcheries don't get money any more, they will stop what they did.

NOT going to happen, and have you heard what breeders and gamblers do? They are FAR worse!

BESIDES, you are NOT talking about getting rid of cruelty to animals AT ALL. You are talking about getting rid of ranchers. Since it will take a while to become a farmer, or get other work, life will go on. The cattle will just feed the ranchers. Later, if they get foreclosed, the cattle may get set free and mauled by dogs, coyotes, or lines. Or they MIGHT get shot for someone ELSES food.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624770].message }}

Sue McDonald

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

There are a lot of people who care but unfortunately all the money that is given to charity does not always reach the people who need it most.

Not every person who works for charity does it for nothing - some are paid very well.

Until this is address there will still be hungry people and dictators who want to rule these lands.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Let's Learn Wordpress
How to Build Effective Sales Funnels
My Blog - Follow my journey online.
My interest - Alternative Therapies.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623626].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

Yes I do care, and I even support these kinds of causes, but ultimately I cant make this pain people suffer go away, neiter can anyone else. Suffering will always be with us. The best we can do is try to feed whoever we can... and pray their inward man will guide them to a better place where they can create more prosperity for themselves.

[ 3 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7623705].message }}

J50

13 years ago

That's just a part of life on this planet. It's only your human emotions that scatter your ability to reason. Life simply transfers, all those billions of dead animals and people are giving place for new life. All the trees and plants, and creatures they're all feeding off nutrients in the ground left by the dead.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624552].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Vokco

That's just a part of life on this planet. It's only your human emotions that scatter your ability to reason. Life simply transfers, all those billions of dead animals and people are giving place for new life. All the trees and plants, and creatures they're all feeding off nutrients in the ground left by the dead.

While it does bypass emotions, your answer is very true obviously. Its natural to want to help as much as you can where help is needed, but the fact remains that the poor will always be with us. Heck many countries that are poor use to be rich, and any rich country can become poor again...Unless of course they kill off all the leaders who want to change the rules and start using actual gold backed currency, so they can keep perpetrating.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

Probably more than that die from cancer, and it isnt any more fair than being born into a poor economic situation...many others are born with birth defects, and that isnt fair either... As far as animals... We were actually put on this earth to dominate animals. There are some that are domesticated, but there are others that are clearly for killing and eating, and if you were starving, you might even eat a domesticated one.

What gets to me is how selective you are about whats fair and whats not. Do you think fishing is animal cruelty? Or is it just a selective thing for you that its only cruel if you kill certain kinds of life?

Do you think cutting down a plant is cruel, or do you think plants dont feel?

Do you think people getting cancer is more fair than people being born into poor economics?

There are serious problems EVERYWHERE that are worthy of compassion, and they come in all shapes and sizes, from all geographic locations.

Pray for everyone, give where you can, and teach anyone who will listen.

@ Ken (Durham), Good to see you!

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624688].message }}

J50

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

While it does bypass emotions, your answer is very true obviously. Its natural to want to help as much as you can where help is needed, but the fact remains that the poor will always be with us. Heck many countries that are poor use to be rich, and any rich country can become poor again...Unless of course they kill off all the leaders who want to change the rules and start using actual gold backed currency, so they can keep perpetrating.:rolleyes:

Humans are inherently highly social creatures. Just like other highly intelligent creatures; Apes, Elephants and Dolphins etc it's their ability to cooperate that's critical for long term survival and prosperity. But you can't help your entire species, it's not practical.

Humans are also very selfish and self centered, and I still believe the best way of helping others is to first help yourself. I mean if you can't even help yourself, you're not the best person to help others anyway.

Trading is the best way to help everybody, you get what you want and you help others get what they want. Lot of these 'poor' countries sit on billions of dollars in natural resources, but it's corruption not a lack of food that suppresses the masses.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624778].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Vokco

Trading is the best way to help everybody, you get what you want and you help others get what they want. Lot of these 'poor' countries sit on billions of dollars in natural resources, but it's corruption not a lack of food that suppresses the masses.

Our own countries money doesnt even have any intrinsic value, I dont know what the heck we are doing in other peoples business, other than trying to control the world so nobody messes up the facade. Im pissed over what the world did to Libya's obviously noble leader. IMO it was just because he wanted to start trading in real gold currency and we have none.

I think ALOT of Americans are pissed right now, because the thing that makes us proud to be American is our principles, and the powers that be arent operating on pure ones it seems.

As far as my personal economics, I will make those or break them myself, but as far as the people I give my loyalty and altruism to... I want them to have pure intentions.

Thats why I like the Warrior forum, because it operates on a good constitution, and the leaders have conviction.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624887].message }}

Kay King 13 years ago

it's corruption not a lack of food that suppresses the masses.

That is very true but the sad answer is until the people of the country find the strength to rise up and stop the corruption...it won't end.

Corrupt leaders know that when people are hungry their days are spent looking for food - not changing the government.

I agree with Ken's guilt comment. There is no universal solution and throwing money at a problem is a feel good option for some people who would never stop to help a homeless person or abandoned dog in their own community.

Doctors Without Borders and missionaries do more good than all the well off people writing checks to well-advertised charities.
- [ 2 ] Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
what it is instead of what you think it should be.
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7625445].message }}
- seasoned 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  Doctors Without Borders and missionaries do more good than all the well off people writing checks to well-advertised charities.
  
  One reason why is because Barter is inferior to money ONLY in that money is essentially universal In some ways, that is actually a BENEFIT of barter though! After all, if you fix a childs sleft lip as a doctor, how is a burglar to steal it? I WAS going to ask how a government could steal it or tax it, but they HAVE! Governments might use it as propaganda, tax the doctor, or tax the patient.
  
  Steve
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7625604].message }}

rain21

13 years ago

it will take several centuries to solve all these matters on earth. Still most of us are not well developed to solve them. But one day, maybe after 3 or 4 centuries, these problems will be solved.

Thanks

Signature

Dried Fruits & Condiments

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624663].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

I left out a great anecdote, and I really shouldn't have.

I was once invited to a little city counsel meeting. The councilman couldn't be bothered, so he wasn't there. A neighbor said it was ODD he was doing this, and then thought "OH, he is probably running for office". HE WAS! BTW He is now a "U.S. representative". Anyway, his assistant was there. He WAS, of course, paid, and didn't do much. The friend that invited me was there. SHE was good at managing such things, and getting people together. There seemed to only be like 4 people that really said anything.

1. A police officer told a sad story about how a homeless family with a dog came to him around midnight or so, and he had trouble trying to find a place for them to stay. A family is bad enough, but the dog pushed it over the edge. And WHO could he call at 12 midnight? I was thinking about how MY project could help. I said something about it.
2. A woman eating donuts just tried to shoot everyone's ideas down. She offered NONE of her own.
3. A person stated HIS plan, which was MINE also! But there was a CATCH!!!!!!!!

HE worked for a funding agency, and wanted to get funding to research, design, and setup a system like I had researched, designed, and setup for FREE!!!!!!

Anyway, I gave him my card and told him I would give him all the source code and all if he wanted. He NEVER called.

You know.....I wanted only ONE thing! Just ONE! I literally BEGGED AND BORROWED for it! I just wanted a list of charities. I DID eventually get like 400 in there, but it should have been more. What I had were ones I happened across, a ministry booklet, and a sheet someone gave me when I begged for it.

My HOPE was to have a NATIONAL database where you could put the location in, check a few boxes(like dog, children, husband, wife) the types of services(maildrop, shower, room, food), and times, click a button, and have it give you the closest matches. A SIMPLE idea! Needs NO money. It could help out a LOT!

It was effectively a charity for charities! NOT providing help to the needy, but finding a way to place them where they could find help that was just not used.

Anyway, I tried this like 5 years before I got on the internet, and several years before the internet was opened to the public, and it took me YEARS after that to get an unlocked server, so it was the last thing I thought of when going on the internet.

I THOUGHT of restarting it on the internet a few years back, but really wanted to keep the name. It WAS called "Jacobs ladder". The name just came to me, and it really is a perfect name. The idea was a ladder to get to a better place, so it really fits. ALAS, that name is already taken.

ANYWAY, my point is that this meeting was SUPPOSED to be to help the poor, and almost EVERYONE was in it for THEMSELVES!

Steve

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7624885].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

yes john - i wish it was the worst lie but it isn't.

if i didn't believe the anti-christ is a system or government then i would agree it will be a pope - and 'popery' is one of the biggest lies. Total BS.

Only two people you kiss their ring, mafia dons and popes. two peas in a pod.

kma.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627951].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Well I would get kicked out of here if I said what I really believe, and I can respect WF's reasoning for not allowing that kind of talk. But Im with you.

Originally Posted by AprilCT

I wasn't aware that the early Christians were "vegetarians" -- at least not by choice, since most were the poor and outcast and couldn't afford meat other than as a lucky, once in a blue moon luxury to get some. Persecution and hiding further hindered many of them from growing their own food and livestock, so it is reasonable to think they had to eat bread and vegetables to survive. Those who could fish probably did so.

A little "Non Biblical" History.

There were once many small groups of early Christians who had different practices and focuses, much like today we have Baptist, Pentecost, Methodist... There isnt really one way to define them all, as far as their various focuses.

The one thing they all had in common was the belief that Jesus was the Savior.

They interpreted different teachings in their own ways. This is why the Niacean Creed was formed (The canonization of certain books) for government leaders to be able to bring all of their people into a common belief system that suited their own beliefs and agendas.

Still the fundamental message is the same, just alot of cool details are left out. For instance; Jesus taught some groups in terms of quantum physics, but the governmental leaders did not include such teachings in the cannonized (King James) Version of the Bible, considering them heracy. Such teachings were considered "gnostic" (Which just means - Loosely- "deeper knowledge"). In reality they were just the earthly explanations of supposed heavenly phenomena that he shared in some of his messages.

Also it was believed by governments that women should not teach, so , such gnostic teachings as the Gospel Of Mary, which I linked to earlier were left out, because they didnt want to empower women.

I do alot of study on Non Biblical Historical evidence of the Bible, which confirms by means of the non biblical historians and journalists of the times, the actual occurrences of Bible stories and teachings.

You can argue religious theory, so Im not bringing that up, but not historical and archeological facts.

-John

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7627956].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

yes i know it may offend - the truth is a double-edged sword.

i am sorry about that. and sorry we can't ever tell the truth no matter what we are talking about wherever. I also respect WFs right to censor anything that is combative or antagonistic - that was not my intent - however i always get in trouble and alienate people because i am 'blatantly honest' - sometimes it is needed. like wake TF UP!

and actually I would go back and remove a few comments or massage them at least except now you have quoted me so you made sure I am busted.

but i actually came back here to say that since the gospel has been *******ized over and over again, it needed a recovery from that.

i have studied for decades every day a little bit and gone through 3 or 4 versions and the one that really really tells it like it really is (spiritually) is aptly named The New Testament Recovery Version. (Watchman Nee to Brother Lee and LSM.org). You can get one free at biblesforamerica.com mailed to you. the footnotes are longer than the new testament. it's just in plain english explains what is VERY OBVIOUS.

i am on my second pass and it really blows my mind - because i realize more than i give myself credit for (proof) - and at the same time I realize I know almost nothing - but that is just so far!

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628008].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

john sez: "quote"

"Also it was believed by goverments that women should not teach, so , such gnostic teachings as the gos[pel of Mary, which I linked to earlier were left out, because they didnt want to empower women."

see that's what i mean - that is not what the Gospel says. The church that they were in at the time was full of prostitutes and street women. They were a rowdy, bawdy bunch - and they were told to shut the hell up.

this has gone down for centuries perpetuating this phony bs from satan to alienate women. (not saying it hasn't really happened that we have been persecuted for something or other, (i am sure just to keep us back 'barefoot and pregnant') -- but just talking about this parable) - specific to that church.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628014].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

please also unquote me in #55
http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post7627945

HELLS BELLS - i can't find anything i will delete - i tried to soften it a little around the edges.
... and I was able to un-capitalize pope.

p.s. cult of mary is of the virgin mary - mary magdeline was an apostle. and one very close to Jesus. it is just no place in the bible to worship VM. She is barely mentioned. She was a very blessed, Jewish woman, and a loving mother. Even Jesus when asked about her pointed to the crowd of followers and believers and said in so many words this is My family (it's not about my mother).

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628015].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

please also unquote me in #55
http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post7627945

HELLS BELLS - i can't find anything i will delete - i tried to soften it a little around the edges.

p.s. cult of mary is of the virgin mary - mary magdeline was an apostle. and one very close to Jesus. it is just no place in the bible to worship VM. She is barely mentioned. She was a very blessed, Jewish woman.

I edited my own some. It is now more about historical facts. Understandably arguing religious theory can lead to negative threads...so I skimmed it down to just history.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628034].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

i have studied for decades every day a little bit and gone through 3 or 4 versions and the one that really really tells it like it really is (spiritually) is aptly named The New Testament Recovery Version. (Watchman Nee to Brother Lee and LSM.org). You can get one free at biblesforamerica.com mailed to you. the footnotes are longer than the new testament. it just in plain english explains what is VERY OBVIOUS.

i am on my second pass and it really blows my mind - because i realize more than i give myself credit for (proof) - and at the same time I realize I know almost nothing - but that is just so far!

Thanks , I will check that out. I recently bought my mother a laptop and taught her to use it. She is very much into Bible study and has been blown away daily by all the in depth study the internet has afforded her, and expressed to me how she feels like a baby in her studies again, after 60 years, discovering some of the information that is out there.

Prior to the internet she had no idea how the Bible was put together. It really is important to understand, for anyone who really wants to dig deep, however maybe not for some, so long as a desiring person understands the basic principles.

Given all of the knowledge available the only thing we can rely on, in the faith that you and I particularly share Patricia, is 1st John 2:27 to learn and discern, but most of it is pretty clear, even without spiritual intuition if one studies, at least to my own thinking.

In any event, I dont have much hope that the world itself is going to get any better anytime soon, but I dont let that make me apathetic, and still try to help people where I can.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628118].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

Hi John I am really enjoying this rare fellowship (shop talk).

I came back to say about Daniel and the Prophecies therein, years ago I have seen documented evidence of I think it is 148 Bible prophecies THAT HAVE ALREADY COME TRUE. Maybe I will try to find it I am lazy do it yourself lol.

My other PS is I forgot to say that though non-denominational (and anti-organizational) - LSM is heavily influenced by American Quakers (very pure and simple 'sect') and for one thing they have 'meetings' not 'church' and everybody is brother and sister not pastor talking down to sheeple.

Nobody between you and God.

Of all things the Recovery version writings were smuggled out from a prison in communist china where watchman nee passed them on to brother lee, who ran all the way to of all places Anahiem, CA (@ the western bible belt) and then they published them - both nee and lee have passed over - nee dying in prison after 14 years merely for being a Christian. Martyr and Messenger.

Very cool about your mom.

You are right - what you said - it is very simple and basic.
"you have to be child-like (innocent) to experience the kingdom of heaven'

It's all about HIM, Jesus - nothing else. He is sufficient for all things.
That's all we gotta know. He is perfect and we just love Him (MORE than anything else) and want to be with Him always. Right now we just need to get to know Him (SEEK) and let Him have His Way with us.

Peace and Love -

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628143].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

I came back to say about Daniel and the Prophecies therein, years ago I have seen documented evidence of I think it is 148 Bible prophecies THAT HAVE ALREADY COME TRUE. Maybe I will try to find it I am lazy do it yourself lol.

I dont think its pushing religion for me to tell a historical fact, but the Book of Isaiah even predicted the location and event of the now famous sycamore tree that was cut off at the root (not metaphorically) at the base of the twin towers, and even names the type of tree they would use to replace it and the words they would speak over it at the replacement ceremony (which they did). Hows that for specific?

I wont get into all the surrounding context that leads to that conclusion, but its there.

Now a prediction:

You can tell me I was right later, but the next thing that is going to happen is that they are going to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem and shortly thereafter animal rights activists are going to raise a stink and the government is going to tell them they cant make animal sacrifices in it anymore, and it will make world news.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628163].message }}

Optimist Cam

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

To hell with the animals. People are starving.

why do you feel the need to show sympathy for one and not the other? You weren't forced to choose which one you should care about. Obviously if you think it is bad that people are starving than you should care that animals are too, its not their fault.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628569].message }}

Young Financier

13 years ago

No, I don't care. Those things don't increase the equity in my account, so I couldn't care less about them.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628574].message }}

whateverpedia

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sean T Alexandre

No, I don't care. Those things don't increase the equity in my account, so I couldn't care less about them.

"For the love of money is the root of all evil" 1 Timothy 6:10.

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Matthew 16:26.

"When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money." - Cree Prophecy

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?

So that blind people can hate them as well.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628674].message }}

Young Financier

13 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

"For the love of money is the root of all evil" 1 Timothy 6:10.

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Matthew 16:26.

"When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money." - Cree Prophecy

I don't believe in the bible so those quotes are useless.
As for that last one...those things aren't gonna happen in this lifetime, so again, I couldn't care less. Why should I give a damn about the next person starving? If the roles were reversed, they wouldn't care about me. So f**k 'em.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7628696].message }}

whateverpedia

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sean T Alexandre

I don't believe in the bible so those quotes are useless.
As for that last one...those things aren't gonna happen in this lifetime, so again, I couldn't care less. Why should I give a damn about the next person starving? If the roles were reversed, they wouldn't care about me. So f**k 'em.

So, I guess you've got no problem with me saying f**k you then?

[ 2 ] Thanks

Signature

Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?

So that blind people can hate them as well.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7629176].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sean T Alexandre

I don't believe in the bible so those quotes are useless.
As for that last one...those things aren't gonna happen in this lifetime, so again, I couldn't care less. Why should I give a damn about the next person starving? If the roles were reversed, they wouldn't care about me. So f**k 'em.

That last one isn't even from the bible!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7629267].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Sean T Alexandre

No, I don't care. Those things don't increase the equity in my account, so I couldn't care less about them.

Objectively,

I think you will find this to be a typical disposition of a person who does not believe in God. Not saying one is morally higher than the other... but did you realize it was typical?

You are fortunate to have been born into a country where prosperity can be had.

For most, the natural feeling is that they want to share that with others who may not be as fortunate, the feeling of getting a good break every now and then, even though its not our fault they are less fortunate.

Believe me, not being born into a third world country was a "good break".

If you are OPEN to believing in God ever let me know, I would love to share him with you.

You have a great mind, there is something to the spirit too that you would love to explore Im sure. Its even more fascinating than science, which I find fascinating.

I personally think its what all scientists are seeking to find, and never quite do, because it cant be found with the carnal mind, or mathematics...only through "faith".

-John

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631097].message }}

Joe Mobley

13 years ago

Objectively, I think you will find this mindset being heavily taught in Abrahamic mythology. It gives the feeling of moral superiority while conveying condescension at the same time.

Somehow, I'm not feeling the love of Jesus right now.

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by John Durham

I think you will find this to be a typical disposition of a person who does not believe in God.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

.

Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631260].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

Objectively, I think you will find this mindset being heavily taught in Abrahamic mythology. It gives the feeling of moral superiority while conveying condescension at the same time.

Somehow, I'm not feeling the love of Jesus right now.

Joe Mobley

I understand. Its common also, after having shared something like this for someone like you to come along and make a condescending comment like that. I am unmoved by it, and fully expect it.

I wont argue. Just know that your comment isnt exactly a shocker "Joe".

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631314].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

Objectively, I think you will find this mindset being heavily taught in Abrahamic mythology. It gives the feeling of moral superiority while conveying condescension at the same time.

Somehow, I'm not feeling the love of Jesus right now.

Joe Mobley

Joe, Jesus actually commanded his disciples to NOT ever have ANY resentment to tyranny and injustice. (and I guess not to ever 'let on' or 'show' it if they did when attacked). (frequently)

I am somewhat reactionary naturally, and very defensive to boot, but even I am beginning to find out that 'to forgive' is an instant transaction. no soul searching, guilt, or 'stewing' etc.

- just process it - GIGO and move forward unburdened. Most people probably do that naturally. Not so for me.

Somewhere in there is how to not get into conflicts where there is a miscommunication
... or 'scales over their eyes' (blind to the light).

Anyway, put on the full armor of God, Warrior(s).
Love is one of the most powerful weapons along with Truth.

(and we don't need to grovel either)

The Truth Will OVERCOME
Nothing Can Stop the Light

Thanks

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631729].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Kay,

I saw that SAME commercial. Someone already noticed that, and gave the stars free publicity. Each one saying STOP THIS, then shows them ADVOCATING it!

Let me make it simple for all. ****EVERYONE**** knows about the problem! There is no need to send ut a general plea. MAYBE ****EVERYONE**** knows the solution. So it would be nice if those in need did THEIR part, or just shut up. Here is another hint. It is ****NOT**** money! And the richest most powerful group on the PLANET could NOT, by itself, help out the SMALLEST family! A nice set of statements was once attributed to lincoln. Detractors didn't like the message and CLAIMED it was created by a pastor, trying to thus devalue it. It was NOT religious AT ALL, by the way.

If the devil HIMSELF wrote it, it would be no less TRUE!!!!!!! One statement is that you do not raise the poor by making others poorer.

I was bullied in school, and I see this as just another way of bullying. They keep pushing me BACK, and denying me a nice retirement, etc... and ALL on the pretense that they may somehow help others. Ironically, I always just see more getting hurt, as I get hurt. SOME that are hurt have great grandparents that have not even been born yet. Even MORE ironic, those at the top always end up BETTER financially for it. Isn't that INTERESTING!?

The goal should NOT be feeding or paying. The goal should be getting them on their feet! GRANTED, that MIGHT take money(Sometimes it doesn't take a PENNY), but if you want to pay money and be done, or hire a contractor and be done, etc... You will find that in some time between 4hours and say 10 years, all helped will generally be back for more. All that money gone to waste.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7629691].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

Originally Posted by taskemann

But if you compare these "poor" people with poor people from unstable 3'rd world countries, they are actually not so poor because I don't think you starve to death in America. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But there are good and bad times everywhere. For example when my dad was a kid for 45-50 years ago, it wasn't uncommon that children went to bed hungry. And it was normal to only have 2 sets of clothes. And having meat for dinner? They could only aford to eat meat in the Christmas times. Fish and potatoes was the common, daily diet. And that was only 45 years ago.

taskemann you would be very surprised how many hungry children are in america. how many poor people. how many homeless sick people. living on the streets, under freeways or bridges, in cars, and doorways -

it is true they have some benefits like schools that provide breakfast or lunch to poor children. and i know that our worst is probably not as bad as 3rd world countries - but then if you were living under the freeway you might argue that.

Many people live right on the edge - they are working poor - they used to be the middle class but now with wages frozen or gone and prices always going up for necessities, they are kind of fulfilling the psuedo 'prophecy' that there will be the very rich and the very poor and nothing in between.

So far it isn't so bad if you know how to manage and you are not afraid to work hard. If something is wrong maybe you can get some help from state or federal government.

... but many can't - even disabled veterans - and the kicker is if the Govt needs to come up with more money for their budget they will always take it from those that have the least - the disabled, the elderly, the poor.

hey but we can afford to spend billions on wars...

go figure.

National Poverty Center | University of Michigan

U.S. Hunger - Bread for the World: Have Faith. End Hunger.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631446].message }}

John Durham

13 years ago

Personally I feel that freeing yourself from only worrying about self, and allowing compassion for others to flow is an amazing emotion, so I have no issue with sharing with people how to connect to that energy. Not intending to come across as thinking I am morally superior, however in truth there IS an intellectual hierarchy, there is a financial hierarchy, and like it or not there is also a moral one. To deny that is to deny reality. Taking myself out of the equation, personally, I think the general consensus tends to be that caring for others is morally higher than not caring. I stand with that.

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631772].message }}

eekern

13 years ago

Revolutions or a redistribution of wealth from rich to poor will not help us. We have been through this, and we have seen that it only leads to the destruction of industry and commerce. The connection between people is the solution.

Why are even GOD in this topic? I agree that love COULD be the answer Patrician, but only because thats the only source powerful enough to make us cooperate, not because it has something to do with jesus... thats YOUR subjective perseption of love, dont force that agains others please.

[ 2 ] Thanks

Signature

We create systems for course creators who are passionate about creating lasting results for their clients.

https://beta.pathlevels.com/

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631881].message }}

eekern

13 years ago

this it a good example of someone who has stop whining and get his hands dirty:
Causes.com: Build Awareness, Fundraise, and Advocate for Change | causes.com

Thanks

Signature

We create systems for course creators who are passionate about creating lasting results for their clients.

https://beta.pathlevels.com/

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7631990].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

I forget all the terminology but for example in various types of vegetarianism, there are separate names.

Fish is definitely not in the same category with meat.

I remember that much.

a total vegetarian would have no animal products of any kind - no milk, no eggs, no fish, no meat.

Some will not eat meat or fish but will drink milk or use eggs
Some will not eat meat but eat fish

- I am one of those although I just took chicken back. I won't eat beef or pork for many decades, off and on chicken.

I will not drink milk but I also just forgave eggs recently.
I will eat some cheese as I would die instantly if parmesian cheese disappeared.
but i limit anything with milk in it - even more decades than no meat.

In the last half of my life I have stayed with fish - but the majority of my protein is from vegetables and grains.

Because of my famous arse backwards low-protein/too high oxalate diet I needed amino acids badly - I found out anybody that ever had liver or kidney disease (even mild or temporary) should not take aminos - and why be a vegetarian if you are going to eat aminos made from pigs and cows n chickens. anyway?

So I found Spirulina - vegetarian aminos - no contra-indications as per the naturapathic doctor I read -- and i took it for a few months - I was sick enough at that point to think I had a serious stomach disease "flare" (for almost a month) - so i stopped and started the Spirulina to test (after I read online it can be downright dangerous) - and yep that was what made me sick. So obviously I stopped and I am fine. (however i am having some tests done finally).

SO HENCE BACK TO EGGS AND CHICKEN for aminos!

I can already tell the difference...

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7635753].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

I forget all the terminology but for example in various types of vegetarianism, there are separate names.

Fish is definitely not in the same category with meat.

Maybe not with OTHER meat, but it IS meat.

a total vegetarian would have no animal products of any kind - no milk, no eggs, no fish, no meat.

Since that is RARELY done, they don't call themselves vegetarians. They are VEGANS.

Some will not eat meat or fish but will drink milk or use eggs
Some will not eat meat but eat fish

- I am one of those although I just took chicken back. I won't eat beef or pork for many decades, off and on chicken.

I will not drink milk but I also just forgave eggs recently.
I will eat some cheese as I would die instantly if parmesian cheese disappeared.
but i limit anything with milk in it - even more decades than no meat.

In the last half of my life I have stayed with fish - but the majority of my protein is from vegetables and grains.

Because of my famous arse backwards low-protein/too high oxalate diet I needed amino acids badly - I found out anybody that ever had liver or kidney disease (even mild or temporary) should not take aminos - and why be a vegetarian if you are going to eat aminos made from pigs and cows n chickens. anyway?

Amino acids ARE processed to some degree by the liver, and it stores as much as two days, as I recall. But they eventually break down to ammonia which is removed through the kidneys.

So I found Spirulina - vegetarian aminos - no contra-indications as per the naturapathic doctor I read -- and i took it for a few months - I was sick enough at that point to think I had a serious stomach disease "flare" (for almost a month) - so i stopped and started the Spirulina to test (after I read online it can be downright dangerous) - and yep that was what made me sick. So obviously I stopped and I am fine. (however i am having some tests done finally).

SO HENCE BACK TO EGGS AND CHICKEN for aminos!

I can already tell the difference...

Plant aminos are actually the same as animal. They ARE in different proteins, but your body shouldn't care. The proteins are basically broken down in the stomach. And they ARE a different profile. That means that you get different aminos, and different amounts of each. The specific profile is dependent on the plant though. Rice has an incomplete profile, and beans do also, but supposedly both TOGETHER give a pretty compete profile.

THAT is why so many talk about aminos. People often talk about protien, like on food packages, but it is DUMB! There are like 30+ human aminos, but only nine need to be eaten(Essential Amino Acids), and I think one or two of them only need to be taken by some people. The others can be built from the Essential ones. So it is possible to take in a LOT of protein, and be effectively DEFICIENT in protein because your body doesn't really use protein at all, but the AMINO ACIDS it gets from them.

BTW some plants are FAR higher in oxalates than others. And you don't want to have too many oxalates, because a lot of stones are built from them.

BTW Eggs and/or chicken are pretty complete also. Being animal based, the protein is better suited to animals.

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7636396].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

No Steve - a Vegan is a total vegetarian who also will not even wear leather belt or shoes, soap or anything else that has anything to do with exploiting animals. NO animal products - no animals used for anything except pets.

Interesting about aminos - and you are right about oxalates - Soy is just brimming with them - so is cocoa powder - Almost anything 'gluten free' or 'spun vegetable protein' is soy (vegetarian 'meats') - Lived on them for years - and that was the stones I had - oxalate. Spinich is another one that is loaded.

Oxalates have no purpose in the body and all they do is 'pair up' with calcium to leave your body - so i always take calcium when I eat oxalates now at the same time. And obviously with more animal proteins now, I won't eat so much oxalate. Also greatly increased 'water' and they say if you have plenty before and after you eat oxalate foods they will be able to leave without creating stones.

Well because of the rather violent reaction I had to Spirulina this is a blessing, because I finally after so many years 'managing' my 'sensitivities' to foods, made an appointment with a doctor (gastroenterologist) to have testing I should have had 15 years ago. Nobody normal would have probably reacted the way I did and I know it now.

(now if the tests don't kill me - the prep and all for the hospital (for 24 hours leading to the procedure) are just horrible and the doctor very unceremoniously said they are doing tubes at both ends simultaneously *(I will be knocked out thank you God). AND they may 'make holes' that bleed or have pain after (1 in 1000)' soooo with that he really made me scared as hell but I have to do this.

The worst part is I will be dopey after the test and nobody I would ask to come and pick me up. So I will be sliding from the wheel chair into a cab "against medical advice". I hope I get a nice cab driver (especially if I barf in his cab lol). My son is miles away and working in Silicon Valley and taking care of my mother 24/7. I just can't ask him.

(incidentally I got so upset when I read about the dangers of Spirulina after being sick for a few weeks, I forget what the exact story is and don't ever want to find it again - but it was something to the effect that it sounds like it literally breaks away something or other (tissue from an organ) and then when it passes you can have total kidney failure.)

So 'it just ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin')

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7639350].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

No Steve - a Vegan is a total vegetarian who also will not even wear leather belt or shoes, soap or anything else that has anything to do with exploiting animals. NO animal products - no animals used for anything except pets.

I didn't hear about the belt, etc... Otherwise, I'm right.

(now if the tests don't kill me - the prep and all for the hospital (for 24 hours leading to the procedure) are just horrible and the doctor very unceremoniously said they are doing tubes at both ends simultaneously *(I will be knocked out thank you God). AND they may 'make holes' that bleed or have pain after (1 in 1000)' soooo with that he really made me scared as hell but I have to do this.

The worst part is I will be dopey after the test and nobody I would ask to come and pick me up. So I will be sliding from the wheel chair into a cab "against medical advice". I hope I get a nice cab driver (especially if I barf in his cab lol). My son is miles away and working in Silicon Valley and taking care of my mother 24/7. I just can't ask him.

WOW, if I could help you I WOULD. Maybe you read, I had the SAME problem(doped up for a test, state law DEMANDED a friend or relative to take me home). Like you, I had NOBODY to call.

(incidentally I got so upset when I read about the dangers of Spirulina after being sick for a few weeks, I forget what the exact story is and don't ever want to find it again - but it was something to the effect that it sounds like it literally breaks away something or other (tissue from an organ) and then when it passes you can have total kidney failure.)

So 'it just ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin')

I had NO idea spirulina was that bad. Wikipedia seems to say it is fine and that doses as high as .8GR/KG are SAFE. That is almost as much as some bodybuilders recommend, and in excess of the US RDA. As I recall, spirulia is supposed to be a complete protein. One of the non animal products that can sustain a human. It DOES say, however:

Spirulina is a form of cyanobacterium, some of which are known to produce toxins such as microcystins, BMAA, and others. Some spirulina supplements have been found to be contaminated with microcystins, albeit at levels below the limit set by the Oregon Health Department.[21] Microcystins can cause gastrointestinal disturbances and, in the long term, liver cancer. The effects of chronic exposure to even very low levels of microcystins are of concern, because of the potential risk of cancer.[21]

In other words, a careless company COULD easily contaminate a harmless species with a harmful one and cause the type of damage you talk about. I hope you are OK.

Steve

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7639559].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I had NO idea spirulina was that bad. Wikipedia seems to say it is fine and that doses as high as .8GR/KG are SAFE. That is almost as much as some bodybuilders recommend, and in excess of the US RDA. As I recall, spirulia is supposed to be a complete protein. One of the non animal products that can sustain a human. It DOES say, however:

In other words, a careless company COULD easily contaminate a harmless species with a harmful one and cause the type of damage you talk about. I hope you are OK.

Steve

... and maybe because I had to start right off with the super-duper-high-powered dosage - the company is reputable and never had a problem before.

Thank you Steve I will remember one person would 'help me if you could' - it really means something because being a loner I don't make many real friends- and interesting the ones I thought I had that live in the area, I wouldn't dare ask them for a favor - so something tells me they couldn't care less - but it is a lot to ask somebody to sit in a hospital for 2 hours - especially if they 'work' - how could you do this? I couldn't ask.

Spirulina IL-4 Natural Blue-Green Algae 6% Phycocyanin

Supplement Facts

Serving Size 1 Capsule
Amount Per Serving% Daily ValueVitamin A (as beta-carotene)(from Spirulina Gold®)†1,350 IU27%Vitamin C (from acerola berry) 6 mg10%Vitamin K (from Spirulina Gold®)†2 mcg 2%Iron (from Spirulina Gold®)†0.25 mg1% Zinc (from Spirulina Gold®)†0.45 mg3% Spirulina (from Earthrise®Spirulina Gold®)† (Arthrospira plantensis)0.5 grams

*Total Phycocyanin 30 mg*GLA (gamma-linolenic acid)4.5 mg*Total Carotenoids 2 mg
*Zeaxanthin 500 mcg ***Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
*Daily Value not established. †Typical Analysis (nutrients are naturally occurring)

Other ingredients: Rice flour, gelatin, may contain one or more of the following: microcrystalline cellulose (plant fiber), magnesium stearate, silica.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7639644].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

... and maybe because I had to start right off with the super-duper-high-powered dosage - the company is reputable and never had a problem before.

Thank you Steve I will remember one person would 'help me if you could' - it really means something because being a loner I don't make many real friends- and interesting the ones I thought I had that live in the area, I wouldn't dare ask them for a favor - so something tells me they couldn't care less - but it is a lot to ask somebody to sit in a hospital for 2 hours - especially if they 'work' - how could you do this? I couldn't ask.

I DO mean it also, though I don't know how far away you live. I went to see a doctor today. Just a checkup, and I was fine, but I asked the doctor why he is always so happy. And one here spoke about a group of Christian fundamentalists HERE! Anyway, he and I had a nice talk. I wish I could feel that way. BTW his philosophy was a mix, and not really Christian, though he was brought up Christian.

Anyway, I know how you feel about asking others. I felt the SAME way. I was tricked into either dropping EVERYTHING after all the plans, or accepting help from a guy that didn't seem like he was my friend. He turned out to be very nice.

I took a taxi to the doctor, so he didn't have to wait or anything. I just called him when I was done.

As for the loner bit? I FORCED myself to go to EVERY house on my street(it is a small street), when I moved in, to talk with everyone. One guy seemed friendly, but distant now. One woman seemed nice and is a friend. Her husband earlier seemed to not like me, but his wife got him to warm up to me. I don't know about the others really anymore. I MISSED a house! TECHNICALLY it is on a cross street. I FINALLY met them. HOW? The wife noticed my car hadn't moved in 4 days, and knew I had recently left in an ambulance and came down to make sure I was OK. Their DOG introduced her husband to me!!!!!! YEP, their DOG! I was locked out and didn't want to bother anyone. My phone was inside, along with my keys. The couple got home with their dog, and their dog spotted me, so I walked towards their place. They helped. TWO times I needed help, didn't ask, and got it.

Steve

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7640121].message }}

hardraysnight

13 years ago

pity a well intended comment on world poverty was hijacked by a group of christian fundamentalists

Thanks

Signature

These guys helped me with the feedback for my site

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7639616].message }}

Patrician

13 years ago

Thank you Steve. I am glad you have some good neighbors. I do too but funny we are all loners - 14 years here and with only a few exceptions the 'neighborly relations' consist of 'HI!' dead stop.

One time I tried an online dating site and after a guy read my profile "loner, non-conformist' he wrote to say 'you are a doll but we are too much alike. What chance would TWO loner non-conformists have of a relationship?' - I had to agree - however I think it could work because we would be very sensitive to giving the other one plenty of space. but oh well.

It's funny I have a few friends I have known 1 since childhood and a few over the years that we still keep in touch regardless of where we are - (and a few that have died) - I consider them 'good' friends - but that is like once a year or something and we have very little in common - but like your family, sometimes you love them but you don't like them.

It is pretty humiliating not to have a single soul to help me other than to pay a cab driver. I laugh about having to buy dirt - and decent water - but having to buy somebody to care sure sux.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Patricia Brucoli
Plug-In Profit Site Helpdesk

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7640165].message }}

seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Patrician

Thank you Steve. I am glad you have some good neighbors. I do too but funny we are all loners - 14 years here and with only a few exceptions the 'neighborly relations' consist of 'HI!' dead stop.

One time I tried an online dating site and after a guy read my profile "loner, non-conformist' he wrote to say 'you are a doll but we are too much alike. What chance would TWO loner non-conformists have of a relationship?' - I had to agree - however I think it could work because we would be very sensitive to giving the other one plenty of space. but oh well.

It's funny I have a few friends I have known 1 since childhood and a few over the years that we still keep in touch regardless of where we are - (and a few that have died) - I consider them 'good' friends - but that is like once a year or something and we have very little in common - but like your family, sometimes you love them but you don't like them.

It is pretty humiliating not to have a single soul to help me other than to pay a cab driver. I laugh about having to buy dirt - and decent water - but having to buy somebody to care sure sux.

Well, I left a lot of friends behind when I left. There are benefits in having a wife that is like me, or nothing like me. Considering my short falls though, one that is little like me would probably be best. Hopefully we could benefit one another in even basic ways.

As for the humiliating part? At least they gave YOU a choice. With me, they said I could NOT use a TAXI.

Steve

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7640433].message }}

thunderbird

13 years ago

I have to say this is a brilliant thread premise for starting a conversation. Do I care? I guess I care when I come across particular stories and get to know a little about the people or animals discussed in it. Otherwise it is too vague and general for me to relate to with any clarity. This I care about. I got to learn a little bit about the people and the pet:

Blind, Deaf, 3-Legged Dog Named 'True' Saves...

The news media (more singular than plural nowadays) knows this about people, thus almost no personal stories that might elicit sympathy contrary to the interests of the House of Rothschild, owner of Reuters/AP.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Project HERE.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7640615].message }}

sivricmarijan

13 years ago

Thunderbird, can you please provide us with a link to video you posted...it was deleted by YouTube or something like that

Thanks in advance

Thanks

Signature

==== A step-by-step strategy guide on how to earn $$$ thousands per month ====

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7730124].message }}

DJL

13 years ago

By killing all the people who are slaughtering and abusing animals, we attack both problems simultaneously.

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger, animals are getting killed and tortured...Do you even care and why? What do you think, how can we help them?

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Elective Affinities (1809)

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7732167].message }}

Karen Blundell 13 years ago

Of course I care - most people do care but most people don't have the means to help in any major significant way - so many of us quietly do the small things - and don't really want to be acknowledged -
- [ 2 ] Thanks
Signature
---------------
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7733298].message }}
yukon Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by DJL

By killing all the people who are slaughtering and abusing animals, we attack both problems simultaneously.

That would just create more starving people.

Contrary to popular belief, a lot of people eat meat. Sure they can survive by eating bark & grass, but with money in their pocket, why?

Besides, slamming the brakes on meat production isn't really an economical thing to do, it would create an instant chain reaction in every single economy that we would never recover from in our lifetimes.

You would also have billions of starving animals because If a profit isn't being made on animal it's not helping a farmer recoup his investment, so he won't have money to feed hundreds/thousands of head of cattle (nobody needs thousands of cattle as pets). If the farmer goes bankrupt, the farm goes back to the bank. If the Farm isn't generating interest money for a bank, the bank will need a bailout. If the Bailout is temporary, the bank will go under. If the bank goes under, that guy on Wall Street driving the Mercedes will go bankrupt. If that Wall Street guy goes bankrupt, his kids don't eat.

See where I'm going with this? Eat meat, save the world...
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8006421].message }}

sivricmarijan

13 years ago

Thank you all for your answers! I'm glad there are good people here. I just want to say that I have just started donating money to an organization that donates over 90% of received funds to hungry children and I'm very happy that I can help people. The amount I donate is small but every donation I make feeds a hungry kid for a year!

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

==== A step-by-step strategy guide on how to earn $$$ thousands per month ====

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7952417].message }}

lcombs

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sivricmarijan

Thank you all for your answers! I'm glad there are good people here. I just want to say that I have just started donating money to an organization that donates over 90% of received funds to hungry children and I'm very happy that I can help people. The amount I donate is small but every donation I make feeds a hungry kid for a year!

Just brought to mind something that should be mentioned.

Legal, an organization is obligated to devote 10% of their earnings to be deemed a charitable organization.
So be careful of who you donate to.
I once asked a telemarketer how much of my donation actually went to the cause they were promoting.
I was told 75%.
I told them I would donate directly to the charity they were promoting. That way the charity would get 100%.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fresh...55326481208883

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8006474].message }}

AprilCT

13 years ago

Originally Posted by lcombs

Just brought to mind something that should be mentioned.

Legal, an organization is obligated to devote 10% of their earnings to be deemed a charitable organization.
So be careful of who you donate to.
I once asked a telemarketer how much of my donation actually went to the cause they were promoting.
I was told 75%.
I told them I would donate directly to the charity they were promoting. That way the charity would get 100%.

My method as well...direct to someone in need or a real charitable organization instead of one with a bunch of somebodies in the middle taking themselves a nice cut. It's amazing what the executives earn in the collect to dole out your monies racket to other charities.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8007099].message }}

Wisestepp

13 years ago

May some mental tensions and also some of their personal problems are the responsible for dying ......

Thanks

Signature

Get paid for referring jobs. Recruiters Free Job Posting

Get paid for referring jobs. Recruiters get Free applicant tracking

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7952888].message }}

sivricmarijan

13 years ago

I don't understand what are you trying to say Wisestepp?!

Thanks

Signature

==== A step-by-step strategy guide on how to earn $$$ thousands per month ====

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8003921].message }}

lcombs

13 years ago

Consider the VERY wealthy who care.
Bill Gates is donating 90% of worth to feed the hungry.
And it's will barely put a dent in the problem.
If you were a multi billionaire you still couldn't fix all the problems, feed all the hungry.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fresh...55326481208883

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8006330].message }}

smileverse

13 years ago

We can not stop death and birth, it is evolution process of nature. But we can start doing some small things in our life, such as protect the environment, help others in need, and made our life colorful and meaningful.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8017588].message }}

Do you even care???

Trending Topics

I have an app - now what?

Page B ranking for my target keyword instead of Page A

How long do you test a method before dropping it?

Hi to everyone!

Anyone watching the Super Bowl Sunday?