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Oscar Pistorius' Case ...

by mikelmraz
49 replies
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What do you guys think about Oscar's case?
  • Profile picture of the author MeelisM
    Oscar Pistolius is the runner guy with fake legs that is being accused of killing his girlfriend.
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    • Profile picture of the author misconstrued
      Originally Posted by MeelisM View Post

      Oscar Pistolius is the runner guy with fake legs that is being accused of killing his girlfriend.
      He definitely killed her. It's just a question of whether or not it is murder. Regardless of the outcome of the trial his career is likely over and he's going to have a real hard time finding sponsors... Nike already dropped him.
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    His story (so far)...
    First off...you don't have legs, and you get up in the middle of the night to get a fan off the balcony?, and close the sliding glass door, which you left open - but you keep a gun by your bed because you have been getting 'death threats' (?) and you are highly paranoid - (with me so far?) -

    Then, you hear a noise from the bathroom, get your gun - don't alert your girlfriend (who is apparently sleeping through all this?) - go to the bathroom door...(keep in mind there are ladders up against the house from workmen so an intruder could 'get in the bathroom'(?)... - and without any "who's there?...I have a gun" or any warning at all - you just shoot 4 holes in the door - THEN alert your girlfriend to 'call 911' (or whatever it is in Pretoria) - only to find out it was HER in the bathroom...now full of holes - OOPS! My Bad...sorry honey...

    The pun will have to come out sooner or later...but sorry, this guy does not have a leg to stand on -

    So far...It's not looking good - he's going to need a very good lawyer...and a lot of money -

    And the girl had looks and brains...how many Lawyer / Models are there running around?
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    He is insane, mentally incapacitated, or guilty of premeditated murder. Looks guilty to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      The defense doesn't sound good to me, I saw the story out on the news, but it disgusted me and I didn't read it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        There isn't any defense yet - until it goes to trial. To me, this tendency of pronouncing guilt or innocence - or mental capacity - of someone you've never met who killed someone you've never met...is a bit odd.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Apparently in South Africa, the police and prosecution are allowed to leak details of cases because they are not so worried about influencing the outcome of the trial. That is because they do not have a jury system but use professional judges and magistrates.

    Judging by what has been leaked so far. I find it very odd that someone would shoot 4 times in a bathroom with a closed door just on hearing noises.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue McDonald
    Yes it is a very odd case and now they are saying there were drugs and steroids found in the room. At the moment some people are saying the girlfriend was jealous because he had another female friend. I can't understand if there is someone else just move on. It was odd that they elected to air the reality show that she recorded.

    Will we ever learn the truth? One very attractive and clever lady was killed and we may never know the right reason. He is applying for bail at the moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikelmraz
    Maybe I just don't want to be cynical, but I believe his version of events more than he murdered her. His actions in the aftermath (calling the ambulance etc.) is pretty consistent with an accidental killing, I think.

    Anyway, what is the least number of years he will have to serve, assuming the judge believes his story?
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    • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
      Originally Posted by mikelmraz View Post

      Maybe I just don't want to be cynical, but I believe his version of events more than he murdered her. His actions in the aftermath (calling the ambulance etc.) is pretty consistent with an accidental killing, I think.

      Anyway, what is the least number of years he will have to serve, assuming the judge believes his story?
      But as I tried to point out in the rambling story above...his version of the events seem off and inconsistent - if his actions were indeed an accident, they were still initially irresponsible, and involuntary manslaughter would be 'iffy' - if he gets off with 'accidental death', I think it will be a surprise...
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      • Profile picture of the author mikelmraz
        Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

        But as I tried to point out in the rambling story above...his version of the events seem off and inconsistent - if his actions were indeed an accident, they were still initially irresponsible, and involuntary manslaughter would be 'iffy' - if he gets off with 'accidental death', I think it will be a surprise...
        I don't know much about the law, but is there such a thing as 'accidental death'? Especially since it is quite clear that he did fire the pistol and did kill Reeva, I would think that the least he would get is manslaughter.
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        • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
          Originally Posted by mikelmraz View Post

          I don't know much about the law, but is there such a thing as 'accidental death'? Especially since it is quite clear that he did fire the pistol and did kill Reeva, I would think that the least he would get is manslaughter.
          By that, I just meant they would determine the death was accidental, and drop the case...
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            There isn't any defense yet - until it goes to trial. To me, this tendency of pronouncing guilt or innocence - or mental capacity - of someone you've never met who killed someone you've never met...is a bit odd.
            Didn't you get the memo, Kay? Online, we're all experts at everything. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Witness heard "non-stop shouting" before Pistorius shooting - Yahoo! News

    "After vigorous questioning from Pistorius' defense team, Botha estimated the distance between the witnesses and Pistorius' home at 300 metres."

    That is quite a ways...you would have to be screaming pretty loud -



    Oscar Pistorius in court: Defense exposes cracks in police evidence

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-evidence?lite

    Keep in mind...all this is just at the Bail Hearing stage...

    The O.P. case may turn out to be South Africa's OJ case...
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  • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
    They argue.
    She runs to the bathroom.
    He grabs a gun to threaten her and follows on his stumps, not having the time to put on his prostheses.
    She locks herself in the bathroom and leans against the door.
    Unable to get in he shoots out the lock.
    Because he is not wearing his lower leg prostheses (he is sitting on the floor) he shoots up at the lock rather than down or horizontally if he were standing.
    She is standing behind the door and is killed.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      It's terribly difficult to form any judgment of the facts from media accounts, in such cases.

      Anyway, it's only a bail application, at the moment - not a trial.

      (I've been wrong before but to me it looks like the magistrate will probably grant bail, judging by today's news? And probably rightly?)
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    • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
      Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

      They argue.
      She runs to the bathroom.
      He grabs a gun to threaten her and follows on his stumps, not having the time to put on his prostheses.
      She locks herself in the bathroom and leans against the door.
      Unable to get in he shoots out the lock.
      Because he is not wearing his lower leg prostheses (he is sitting on the floor) he shoots up at the lock rather than down or horizontally if he were standing.
      She is standing behind the door and is killed.
      Botha, who arrived on the scene an hour after the shooting, challenged Pistorius' affidavit.
      "I believe he knew she was in the bathroom and he shot four shots through the door," the detective said, adding the angle at which the rounds were fired suggested they were aimed at somebody on the toilet.
      Pistorius had said he moved into the bathroom on his stumps - the reason he felt so vulnerable - but Botha said the shots went in a "top to bottom" trajectory, suggesting Pistorius was wearing his artificial legs when he pulled the trigger.
      "It seems to me it was fired down," he said.
      One of the spent rounds was recovered from the toilet bowl, Botha said.
      I would also have to speculate, if you have a gun and someone has locked themselves in the toilet separate from the main bathroom (see inset)
      It would seem you have the upper hand at that point...
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  • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
    Banned
    It just makes no sense. Hi girlfriend tweeted him the day before saying she had a surprise for him. It seemed they were in love, why would he murder her in cold blood?


    I wish I was int hat courtroom to see the evidence. The actual evidence. AS of right now, it makes zero sense why he would do this. I'm assuming living in South Africa, he is innocent.
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  • Profile picture of the author webcosmo
    Nothing can be served as an excuse to take another life, life is sacred.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      The general consensus after the bail hearing seems to be that the police look incompetent.

      Many of the claims of evidence came to the media from Botha - who is a warrant officer (same as police officer here?).

      The "steroid" claimed to be testosterone seems to be an herbal supplement, not a steroid. No other drugs were produced as evidence.

      The witness was 1000 feet away and heard voices from inside a home? Or a movie, or a TV or....nothing?

      Botha also failed to protect the crime scene by wearing protective clothing. His story about "trajectory" didn't hold up when a police investigator testified there were no inconsistencies in Pistorius' claim of an accidental shooting.

      It's a high profile case - great media coverage for the local police and Prosecutor and I have to wonder if that motivated them more than the facts.

      This story is just strange enough to have been an accidental shooting. I can't imagine how premeditated could be charged - how could you plan this scenario?
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Hilton Botha, lead detective in Oscar Pistorius case, faces his own attempted murder charges

    Y! SPORTS
    Oscar Pistorius' murder case took a sensational twist Thursday when it was revealed that the chief investigator who analyzed the scene of Reeva Steenkamp's fatal shooting faces seven counts of attempted murder charges himself.

    This is getting interesting...I wonder how this detective was assigned this high profile case. I know he is a senior investigator of 26(?) years - but this is a twist, if the defense wants to question reliability of the investigation...
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Pistorius bail hearing in chaos as lead detective is axed from case

    Pistorius bail hearing in chaos as lead detective is axed from case - World News
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    Nike froze its contract with "Blade Runner" today after he was charged with murdering his girlfriend. Tiger Woods lost it in 2009, Armstrong in 2012 and now Blade runner.. But Nike added Rory McIlroy to its roster last month worth up to $250 million over the next..
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    • Profile picture of the author MKaren
      whether its premeditated or not the Girlfriend is still dead.

      but in justice system, If the blade don't fit, you must acquit!
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I think the only thing in common between this and OJ Simpson's case is that there will be massive publicity. Otherwise, there are no racial factors involved. There is also no doubt that Oscar Pistorius killed his girlfriend. Even he gets off, I doubt his career can be revived. After all, he did set out to kill somebody whoever it might have been.
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    • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      I think the only thing in common between this and OJ Simpson's case is that there will be massive publicity. Otherwise, there are no racial factors involved. There is also no doubt that Oscar Pistorius killed his girlfriend. Even he gets off, I doubt his career can be revived. After all, he did set out to kill somebody whoever it might have been.
      No racial factors, but massive publicity, and famous athlete, yes - and the fact that now the investigative procedures are being called into question.
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Here are graphics showing Oscar Pistorius' version of that night:

    In his own words – How Oscar Pistorius says He Killed Reeva Steenkamp | Graphics | News | National Post

    I find #3 especially interesting "Mr Pistorius claimed he dragged himself toward the bathroom, while screaming at the intruder to get out of his house" - now, at that - wouldn't your girlfriend have been awakened and alerted to trouble? Or wouldn't she have said "Oscar - I'm in the bathroom"?

    As I alluded to before, the 'intruder' is locked in a bathroom - from this graphic there is no other way out (window too small) - the act of firing through the door does not make sense at this point - you have them trapped, and you could yell for the obviously sound sleeping Reeva to call the police...

    His story unravels at this point...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue McDonald
    It all seems very strange way to hold a hearing for bail. He admitted that he killed her but did not realize it was his girlfriend in the bathroom. Wouldn't you think that he would be asking his girlfriend to call the police and then when he realized she was not in the bed, he would have assumed it was her in the bathroom. It all seems very strange.
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  • Profile picture of the author lawboy22
    The tough thing with this case is that even if his story is true exactly as he describes it, it's going to be tough to get a jury to buy it and come back not-guilty. Honestly, to me it just does not add up in how he could not know she was not in bed? In my opinion, he knew she was in the bathroom and maybe he was trying to get the door unlocked by using the gun and in the process ended up shooting her or he really was attempting to shoot her. Either way the facts just do not add up in that he thought it was an intruder. If the intruder has locked themselves in the bathroom, just call the police and wait there with your gun, they are not going any where.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    Oscar granted bail!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by Tomas Lodén View Post

      Oscar granted bail!
      It seemed more or less inevitable: there was no real evidence that he's a flight risk, or a danger to anyone, and that was about all that this hearing effectively had jurisdiction to decide?

      (What a shambles the "arguments" against his bail application appeared to be! :rolleyes: )
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        It seemed more or less inevitable: there was no real evidence that he's a flight risk, or a danger to anyone, and that was about all that this hearing effectively had jurisdiction to decide?

        (What a shambles the "arguments" against his bail application appeared to be! :rolleyes: )
        You predicted this confidently. Good one. Chalk one up for the skepchick!
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        It seemed more or less inevitable: there was no real evidence that he's a flight risk, or a danger to anyone
        I think this is highly debatable. It is a just very callous to fire 4 shots into a closed bathroom without knowing who or what could be in there. There is no issue of self defense here. I think it is generally accepted that a mere burglary does not deserve the death penalty. It could have been an eight year old burglar, would he deserve to die?
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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          Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

          It is a just very callous to fire 4 shots into a closed bathroom without knowing who or what could be in there. There is no issue of self defense here. I think it is generally accepted that a mere burglary does not deserve the death penalty. It could have been an eight year old burglar, would he deserve to die?
          Nobody's disputing any of that, Derek. At least, not in this hearing, they weren't.

          This hearing didn't have jurisdiction to decide any of those issues at all. Its only relevant jurisdiction related to whether the prosecution could show the court that he's either a danger to society or a flight risk. Nothing else was relevant, here. It was only a bail application. And in the event, they couldn't show that. (And the way they'd apparently prepared their case, they wouldn't even have been able to show that the Pope's a Catholic.)

          It had nothing to do with whether it was "callous". That's for the future trial. The probability of someone being convicted isn't relevant to bail.
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        • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
          Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

          I think this is highly debatable. It is a just very callous to fire 4 shots into a closed bathroom without knowing who or what could be in there. There is no issue of self defense here. I think it is generally accepted that a mere burglary does not deserve the death penalty. It could have been an eight year old burglar, would he deserve to die?
          derekwong28,

          I just watched this on 20/20.

          A South African prosecutor said their law differs significantly from US law. He said an attack has to be "in progress" to warrant self defense. Since he was not being attacked, it appears self defense is out of the question.

          God Bless,

          Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

          Legal Disclaimer: I'm not a Lawyer. I don't play one on TV.
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Besides...they can always put an ankle bracelet on him to track his whereabouts...:rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    NEWS: Father of Pistorius's girlfriend speaks out ->
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  • Profile picture of the author Sam Woods
    So he cant claim self defense? To be fair those actions are not the actions of a sane person who doesnt 'want' to kill someone, so I think his best bet is to claim insanity, but I guess its too late for him to pull that card.
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by Sam Woods View Post

      So he cant claim self defense? To be fair those actions are not the actions of a sane person who doesnt 'want' to kill someone, so I think his best bet is to claim insanity, but I guess its too late for him to pull that card.
      Sam,

      No, not according to what the one South African prosecutor said.

      I don't know about insanity..... They may end up trying that as a "last resort." Who knows?

      He made a crucial mistake by taking with the police at all....

      Once they "nail him down" on "his story," it makes defending him more difficult.... A shrewd Defense Attorney never lets his client talk....

      People are already saying this will be another OJ case.....

      It will be focused on the "celebrity" of alleged killer and his high priced team of Attorneys than what the truth is....

      We'll have to see what happens.....

      God Bless,

      Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS
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  • Profile picture of the author Sam Woods
    not saying he isnt guilty, I think its obvious, but I'd prefer people to rot in a cell.......
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    Latest: Pistorius detective quits force. The decision by detective Hilton Botha to quit followed criticism for his bungling of the investigation into Pistorius' shooting of his girlfriend as well as the revelation that he faced attempted murder charges for a 2011 case in which he fired at a vehicle.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    Latest news in this case: Lawyers for Oscar Pistorius have filed South African court papers appealing bail restrictions.
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