Need a bit of help please.

by ushtey
7 replies
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Can anyone give me a contact email address for Keith Wellman.

For the love of me I cannot get through to him via his Support desk or via his affiliate who recommended his product.

As you can guess I'm not too happy about something and Mr Wellman is a very ellusive guy.

Thanks for any help
  • Profile picture of the author ushtey
    Hopefully the problem has been resolved using the resourcefulness of the affiliate.

    Sorry to have disturbed everyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    No need to apologize imo. After having bought dozens of products from many different gurus and non gurus on various aspects of IM, Keith Wellman is the only person I flat out warn people to stay away from.

    He is the only IM person I've ever had make unauthorized charges to my credit card, refuse to address the problem, and then lie about it to my bank to avoid giving a refund.

    He's the only one who I've had sign me up for a forced continuity program without my consent, then send out 2 emails apologizing for the mistake and assuring me there would be no charge, then charge me anyway, later saying the apology was about something else. He's the only one who changed his order page after the fact to "prove" that I simply hadn't read the clause about how, by ordering, I was signing up for monthly dues.

    He's the only one about whom I've seen a whole thread devoted to quite a few very angry complaints from different warriors who accused him of taking their money without delivering what he had promised. Some of them said they'd been promised a refund (of around $500) which never came. In that thread, instead of coming in and making things right, he came in like a bull in a china shop, trashing all the complainers who he thinks are just whining, and admonishing them to get off their butts and do some work instead of crying about how how he did them wrong. He had some reason (excuse?) why the refunds were delayed and said they should have patience and were guilty of scapegoating the guru instead of facing that their lack of success was due to their own laziness.

    I have never complained about anyone in here, but for him, I'll make an exception. I hope his despicable actions get him booted out of here, but so far I still see other people promoting his stuff.

    Good luck getting in touch with him. I would advise you to document everything, because he has taught us that one must play hardball to get a satisfactory resolution to a complaint. If you wish to dispute a credit charge, make sure you contact your bank quickly; don't give them 6 months to make it right like I did; it ain't happening.
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    • Profile picture of the author fxmarketing
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Keith, apparently the only way to get your attention is to complain about you publicly; something I avoided for a year as I tried numerous calls and emails giving you the opportunity to do the right thing. The silence was deafening. Now suddenly you've taken a personal interest.

        I have some bad news: I kept the emails you sent on the day you told me you were about to charge my card for the program you say I signed up for. That's bad for you because, while the first email says you're about to charge my card, another one came an hour later that apologized for the first, and assured me that it had gone out to the "wrong list", and not to worry because I was not being charged. Then, a little later the same morning, yet another email arrived restating the apology and the assurance that I wouldn't be charged, in case I hadn't seen the first apology. I can post them here if anyone is interested. Of course, this conversation wouldn't be taking place if you hadn't gone ahead and charged me after your assurances to the contrary.

        It's odd that I would try to take advantage of you by you by having you charge my credit card for months against my demands that you stop. Perhaps in your world, you ignoring someone while taking their money equals them taking advantage. Odd also to say that I won and that you did refund me, when your secretary flatly denied your culpability, refused the refund, and blamed the problem on me for not reading what I signed. When I brought up the apologies, she reverted back to her mantra "you should have read the agreement" refusing to say a single word addressing them.

        My bank was useless in the dispute, letting the charges stand. They failed to realize what every warrior knows: that producing an order page doesn't prove it's the one I ordered from. It's about as good as an auto shop producing an unsigned, generic work order as proof that I agreed to buy a new engine from them, when I came if for an oil change.

        How serious can you be about wanting raving fans if you'll ignore an unwilling customer for seven months, taking roughly $210 out of his account while he leaves angry emails and phone messages demanding you stop? One wonders if when you said you were seeking raving fans, you meant ranting detractors.

        As previously stated, I have bought from dozens of IM merchants. The quality has generally been good. I have never before had one take my money against my will. I have never had occasion to say anything negative about any of them, until I had the misfortune of dealing with you.

        I certainly understand that people make mistakes. That's perfectly normal. What's harder to understand is why you would compound it and alienate a potential life-long customer by refusing to communicate with him for months, then when he finally manages to get through to someone, digging in your heels and denying the mistake. Simple greed comes to mind when straining for an explanation for your behavior.

        When you finally did give the matter your personal attention (this thread is the first time), you simply made up the story that, even though you're right and I'm wrong, you refunded me anyway.

        Tell me Keith, if you refunded me the money, where is it? Where's the proof that it happened? There is none, because you didn't. That means one of two possibilities. The first is you have no idea what your company did, but you're taking a wild guess that I got the refund and am complaining for no reason. The second is that you know good and well it never happened, and are flat out lying.

        I have proof of the charges, and that they were never credited back. You never sent me a check, and if you say you did, it should be easy for you to produce proof of that, which you obviously can't. That leaves only the possibility that you sent me cash, or gave me cash in person. Nobody's dumb enough to believe that, nor are you dumb enough to do it.

        It really blows my mind that you would claim you gave me a refund. I assume you replied after a year of ignoring me because you're concerned about your reputation. You say you learn from your mistakes. Then learn this: If a customer is angry and says you ripped him off, simply saying you gave a refund when you didn't won't shut him up. At best you make him look like the bad guy and you the good guy very briefly, until he puts the lie to your claim.

        The way I see it these are your choices:

        A) Continue what your office did when confronted with me and my bank on the phone, and blame the problem on me, refusing to remedy it. Of course then you might have to admit that your claim that you gave me a refund was false, and you still have an unwilling and disgruntled customer. On the plus side, it lets you keep your ill gotten $210.

        B) Stick to your guns on the claim that I was refunded and am simply whining for no reason, or perhaps to squeeze a double refund out of you since I'm the kind of person that takes advantage of nice guys like you. You'll just have to hope everybody believes you, despite the fact that I have proof of the charges and you have no proof of having refunded me, since you didn't. On the plus side; you get to keep the loot.

        C) You could admit that you lied, apologize and give me a refund to show that you're a changed man, and that you really do learn from your mistakes. Damaging, but it's hard to see a way out of this without some damage to your credibility, and if you're sincere this has the advantage of actually being an honorable course of action, that could set you on a new course; being an honest person. Disadvantage: you have to cough up the moolah.

        D) You could admit that you made a mistake, really thought you had refunded me, and then promptly issue a refund. The negative here is that you're admitting you don't know what's going on with your own company, and are willing to publicly denounce a customer's complaint on the basis of your guess as to what happened. Still better than offering up more bluster and bull doodoo. Oh yes; it also would cost you the money you claim to have refunded.

        E) You could go back to the stonewalling you did for a year and hope I'll never say another word about it if you don't stir the pot. The problem with that is that it ignores what every marketer knows: The worst thing you can do is treat customers poorly and then do nothing to remedy the problem, because past customers talk to current and potential future customers. It's like the opposite of free advertising.

        PS: I hate being ripped off, but I don't hate you. I'm not a "hater", nor did I detect any "haters" in the thread full of complaints about you. If anything your blustering replies established you as the hater, not them. You mischaracterized the thread by failing to mention why they wanted their money back. It sounds pretty reasonable to say they wanted refunds when you had a stated policy of no refunds. The fact is, whatever your stated policy, every customer has a right to a refund if they didn't receive what the merchant promised. You conveniently forgot to mention that there were a number of people that all had the same complaint: they paid a lot of money for personal coaching from you, and never got a fraction of the access you promised (they didn't know they were dodging a bullet). If a merchant fails to deliver what's promised, he can't hide behind a "no refunds" policy; he absolutely owes the refund. It's a funny thing; when you stop abusing customers, the "haters" tend to fade away.

        Good luck, I hope you decide to do what's right. If you really did think you gave me a refund, I'll be happy to provide you with an address to mail me a check. Had you actually done so previously, this exchange would not have been necessary.

        Originally Posted by fxmarketing View Post

        I'm sorry that you had a bad experience. You obviously don't recall but here's a few points: you authorized us to charge you, you consented to the charge that was clearly stated, you forgot about the billing, and then tried to get a refund for all the charges after a long period.

        We did refund you, and it's sad to most people, that you would complain about something you did wrong.

        Yes, at one point I did have some 'haters' because I offered a product that didn't have a money back guarantee so when people wanted a refund, we told them no... BUT we ended up changing that policy and refunded unhappy people.

        You see the thing is that you learn from your mistakes. While that was quite some time ago, I still remember how much it sucked and what's crazy is that I only did the "no refunds" approach because I valued what I was teaching so much that I didn't want habitual refunders to take advantage of me.

        Now, we refund anyone who's unhappy. I realized that it's smarter and better in the long run.

        ANYONE can contact us at any time using the support desk at FX Marketing Inc - Powered By Kayako SupportSuite

        We are there Mon-Fri from 8am - 5pm EST and always answer tickets in under 24 hours.

        We're actually training new support personell to go to 24 hour 7 day support which is unheard of in this industry.

        Our support desk is on all of my websites, and even if you reply to emails I send, it will submit your email as a ticket. So Greg, I'm sorry you feel that way but YOU were trying to take advantage of me, not the other way around, but hey in the end, you won.

        One thing I will say Greg is that I am personally sorry that I had the no-refund policy. Hopefully, when you grow your business and start to deal with making decisions like that, you'll understand that not everyone's perfect and I certainly had a lot to learn.

        Keith Wellman
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Never heard of the guy,but if what your saying is accurate, then its my blessing.

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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    Hey Keith Wellman, did you vanish again, along with your post, and the mythological refund you say I got? I can only guess that you chose option E in my last post. You still owe me $210, and option E is hardly the wisest choice, but in light of your past behavior, it's no surprise.
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  • Profile picture of the author B3n
    Greg, I think Keith Wellman has been banned from the Warrior Forum AGAIN:

    WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums - View Profile: fxmarketing
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