Forgiveness

13 years ago

He doesn't deserve to be forgiven in any way but from life on this earth prior to entering eternal damnation in Hell.

If he breaks into tears it is because, like most criminal psychopaths, he is only capable of of self-pity, not empathy and compassion for others.

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HeySal

13 years ago

Yep - if ya kill the ******* you don't need to forgive him, then you can use your emotions on someone worthy of them. It's really like banging your head into bricks over and over again to forgive a psychotic - a sociopath it's like driving a car into your head. They don't think or feel the way most people do and your emotions are only something for them to use for their own means. Don't waste your time or feelings on a psychopath.

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Brian John 13 years ago

i'm a very forgiving person, but for someone who's confessed to some 71 murders (of a presumed 90+) there's no forgiveness in my heart
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SShip

13 years ago

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jimbo13

13 years ago

Forgiveness in murder is pretty stupid.

The only person who can really forgive is the victim and they are dead.

So in that clip the father of Linda Rule forgives the guy. But does Linda Rule?

Dan

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Daniel Evans

13 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbo13

Forgiveness in murder is pretty stupid.

Perhaps the logic of forgiveness in such an extreme case is to realize that the suffering of the loss of a loved one is more than enough of a burden without having to carry an ongoing hate and desire for revenge, which also just perpetuates the very same negative traits of the murderer himself?

In that context the person who forgives is doing themselves a much greater justice since the murderer is not left in a comfort zone that suggests; if everyone carries such hate, then his own hate is justified and thus lessening the perceived severity of his crime.

That's a total reverse hypothetical perspective. I'm sure many people will assume the act of forgiveness will increase crime rates.

I do admit that to have the demenour to put forgiveness into actual practice for such a horrific case would be another matter entirely though...

Daniel

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jimbo13

13 years ago

Hang on a tick Daniel

Not to forgive does not mean that one goes around burdened with hateful or vengeful thoughts that I agree with you are not healthy.

The vast majority of people related to murder victims just get on with their lives but with an irreplaceable hole.

They haven't forgiven the murderer though, they don't tend to think of them.

They just learn to live with the loss. Some cope better than others.

Hatred is an initial emotion.

Dan

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Kay King

13 years ago

If I'm not personally affected, it's not up to me to judge. However, I have a tremendous respect for Mr Rule who was able to stand by his own beliefs and forgive.

It takes a very special person to be able to do that.

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Sheryl Polomka

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

If I'm not personally affected, it's not up to me to judge. However, I have a tremendous respect for Mr Rule who was able to stand by his own beliefs and forgive.

It takes a very special person to be able to do that.

Agree 100% I don't know if I could forgive in that situation, but I have a lot of respect for this man.

You've got to do what you've got to do to get on with life and forgiveness is what this man needed to do.

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Daniel Evans 13 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbo13

Hang on a tick Daniel

Not to forgive does not mean that one goes around burdened with hateful or vengeful thoughts that I agree with you are not healthy.

I think those emotions are probably a lot more actively dominant in their subconscious than they might assume.

The vast majority of people related to murder victims just get on with their lives but with an irreplaceable hole.

That's a given as that's all there is to do, however the hypothesis is that forgiveness allows a person to "grieve in clarity" without additional burden to their being.

They haven't forgiven the murderer though, they don't tend to think of them.

I'm sure every case is quite different and to be fair, we don't know what's in a persons mind, nor does many a person know what's in their subconscious.

Hatred is an initial emotion.

An initial one.

The argument might be that it shouldn't have to be a prominnent and ongoing one to conquer a terrible situation in the best way possible.

Daniel
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Patrician

13 years ago

I understand forgive - it's merely a psychological and spiritual exercise. It is cleansing -- versus hatred is toxic, etc. It makes you a 'bigger' person.

However in this case I can't understand why he is still alive. In a case like this where we have him 'dead to rights' - (confessed/tangible evidence, etc), I think there should be a federal death penalty so nobody skates because they are being 'tried' in a liberal state.

So forgive him, and then pull the switch. He really should not be able to take anything more including air.

Nobody ever said that just because we have to forgive that there are not consequences for the perp. Well ok, it is not our job to judge, and makes no difference to anyone except ourselves whether we are able to 'let it go' or not.

However, nobody ever said because we have to forgive that there should not be any justice.

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btchristopher

13 years ago

First of all, I understand how most of you feel. I was a person who held grudges and hatred in my heart for years and refused to forgive the people who had harmed me in my life. But i recently realized it was causing me mental and emotional harm. It was like carrying a weight around. Some of the things happened 40 years ago and I was still reliving them today. In some cases those whom I had grudges against were dead! I finally realized the only thing to do was forgive, and since I have done so, I have never felt better. I promise you if you can forgive you will feel better. Also, I applaud the gentleman in the video for actually practicing what his religion preaches because so very few do this.

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HeySal

13 years ago

Who says your guts have to rot if you don't forgive someone? Accepting that someone did something is close enough. Take the stoic approach that this is the hand life dealt for you. Also take the logical approach that someone that damned dangerous is a predator and needs to be put out of it.

It's not really "revenge" it's self defense. You CANNOT allow something that dangerous out among the people. Keeping in a cage forever is not humane - could YOU live in a cage forever? It's also not safe because if it breaks it's cage, it is very likely to kill something else. You need to kill it. It's not revenge. It's social protection, and humanely disposing of the danger. People shoot wolves just for living in the same region as their cattle and we don't consider it revenge.

Acceptance may be necessary. I don't see that "forgiveness" is.

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Daniel Evans

13 years ago

Justice is state of law.

Hate and revenge is a state of emotion and as identified by btchristopher, they don't rest their head (even in the event of death of the guilty) until you rest them yourself.

Daniel

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btchristopher

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Evans

Justice is state of law.

Hate and revenge is a state of emotion and as identified by btchristopher, they don't rest their head (even in the event of death of the guilty) until you rest them yourself.

Daniel

Well said, mate.

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Kay King 13 years ago

As a child I remember being told that you don't forgive people for their sake - it's what forgiveness does for YOU that makes a difference.

It doesn't mean punishment isn't necessary and doesn't change what has happened - but it releases the hatred from inside you. It also takes away the power the person had over you in creating such hate and anger.

In that clip, it was also the only thing that cracked the defendant's shell.
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- chris porter 13 years ago
  
  Speaking from personal experience, as someone who has had a family member murdered, I personally did not feel any peace until I forgave the murderer. You cannot carry around hate in your heart, it will manifest itself in your life. Forgiveness is an act of self love.
  
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btchristopher 13 years ago

Oh, by no means do I suggest the guy shouldn't be punished for the crime, that is not what I meant by forgiveness. You hear people speak of "closure"? Well I think that if you don't forgive, you can't achieve closure because you continue to relive the wrong that was done to you and when you do that you experience the negative emotions over and over again. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but when you forgive you can let go of those feelings. You don't have to like the person, or even tell them they are forgiven. It is something you do for yourself, not for the person who harmed you.
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art72

13 years ago

While I found the statement by Mr. Rule admirable considering the loss of his daughter, I firmly believe; this was for HIS own good, not necessarily Gary Ridgeway's. Forgiving this 'psychopath' was likely essential for Mr. Rule 'personally' to free HIS own mind (and emotions) from the bondage of HIS personal loss, and accept his daughter is not coming back. In that regard, I respect his decision to face his enemy with such dignity and patience... as I am sure Mr. Rule longs for the 'official' word of Ridgeway's death to really feel any justice has been served!

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Kay King 13 years ago

He's not forgiving a crime - he's forgiving the person who did the crime.
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- Daniel Evans 13 years ago
  
  He's forgiving himself.
  
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Forgiveness

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