How Is Feminism Going In The US?

It ranges the full gambit over here, Max. There's people who feel women should be the same thing as men - people who think women are pets, some who feel women are superior. Some want to take our rights - others are busy trying to heap us with so many responsibilities the load would stagger a horse.

As far as personal relationships -- right now the economy doesn't really allow a women to stay home and take a traditional role even if it's the one she would choose if she had her way. Of course - it's different here in the first place. When I lived in Europe, I found that even though there was a very palpable division of labor - when it came to intellectual respect - women were given as much credit for having brains as the men were so they were equals at the dinner table (at least in the area I was at). In the US, division of labor also accompanied a feeling of male superiority. That makes trouble for men now that women make their own money. If a guy wants to be a neanderthal and claim superiority and dominance, the woman now has the means to just walk away. I've known many whose men think that the woman should work all day to help support them then come home to clean house and cook while his feet are up on the couch. It doesn't fly. At first there was the "superwoman" attitude of "I can do it all" -- now women are just tired and stressed.

In homes that men respect women as partners (and we do have those men around) and understand that they need to divide the labor so neither is getting crushed under the load, things still seem pretty normal.

It's a boiling pot where there are many differences - and some groups are louder than others.

Well, most AMERICAN men NEVER felt women were pets, or treated them like that. HECK, some changes in the US happened out of RESPECT for women. SURE some men are stupid jerks that abuse, etc... Some WOMEN are ALSO....

I have often made that joke that I am surprised that women aren't called wowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowowo.... . Because SERIOUSLY for a time it seemed that ANY time feminists saw ANYTHING that looked like it might have to do with men, they changed it to women or person.

They take OFFENSE at the famous statement "One small step for ***A*** man, one giant step for mankind.". MAN to mean MALE is supposed to NEVER lack an article! If it does, it means mankind which NEVER means MEN, but humanity. Want to see how bad it can get? Urban Dictionary: ovester SERIOUSLY!

And some feminists actually expect men to treat them as women when it benefits the women, and yet consider them men.

UNREAL!

There was a myth that women got paid less than men and NOW, FINALLY, they are revealing, SURPRISE, it is because many work n less skilled areas, etc...

It is often FORBIDDEN for men to talk about salaries, but some areas DEMAND that women can, to determine where they are. This certainly helps bargaining.

Steve

Feminism is out of style. Socialism is en vogue these days.

Came across this on FB - look at the comment underlined in red. Made me laugh and thought the timing was funny...

Suffice to say, if I told you what I think about feminism and 99.999999% of the people who identify as feminists (yes - men among them, would you believe?!), I'd be banned or chased out of here quicker than one could scream "YOU'RE A MISOGYNIST!!", which of course I'm resolutely not, just like most guys, but since when did the truth really matter to fanatical preachers of any corrupt doctrine? :rolleyes:

Overall Feminism is something most people wouldn't even be able to accurately define. Many men recoil in horror over imagined images of castrating feminist monsters, but that is just silly. Historically feminism, by and large, has concentrated on issues that primarily benefit rich white women who want to get higher up the corporate ladder, but are irrelevant to the needs and concerns of women outside of that privileged sphere.

One thing that's happening in the U.S. (and perhaps elsewhere as well) is that economic power is shifting towards women. This may ultimately be more important than cultural attitudes, though these too are obviously influenced by the economy.

Women are now better educated and are starting to get higher paying jobs than men. This is obviously a generality, and I know that men still earn more statistically. It is, however, shifting. This is especially true in the middle -as opposed to the very top, where men still tend to dominate.

I can see evidence of this in daily life. 20 years ago (for those of you who can remember back that far), cashiers and other service jobs were mainly held by women. In just the last few years, this has changed dramatically. Lately, in fact, it seems like the majority of cashiers are young men rather than women. The reason for this is that many of the higher paying jobs traditionally held by men are disappearing.

Why Women Will Rock the Economic Recovery - Rick Newman (usnews.com)

I can't believe a woman said that. So you think just because a woman isn't acting or dressing how you feel is "appropriate" she has no right to decide who touches her? WTF. So if a guy gets drunk and flashes a few bills here and there to show off his financial prowess - does he deserve to get robbed and beaten?

My freedom of expression is not anyone's right to act like a criminal. It's extremely judgmental to decide that a woman "deserved" what she got because you have a problem with what she chooses to wear. Some do put themselves into more dangerous situations than is smart for them to do - but it's not "their own fault" that someone else is a criminal. Nobody has the right to tell someone else how they have to dress or behave to avoid being attacked. A smart woman doesn't go parading through a street gang on her own, but she has the right to walk down that street without being attacked. Siding with a criminal because you have scorn for the attacked person for some reasaon is a very controlling, judgmental, and self aggrandizing position.

I spent a lot of time at the crisis center re-educating cops and lawyers, etc. about this issue. Back then all rapes were blamed on the victim instead of the perpetrator. One woman's friend called her in the middle of the night because she was upset, so she threw on a pair of jeans and sweatshirt to go over to help the friend. Her car broke down on the way there, she was raped. She lost her case in court because she wasn't wearing a bra so deserved it. THAT is the kind of thing that feminism arose to combat, too. Equality in law.

And that's a big problem with this country in a nutshell - everyone thinks it's their business what another person wears, eats, thinks, etc. They think they are experts on everyone else's lives. Where I grew up you minded your business and let other people do as they wished -- and it didn't excuse anyone attacking anyone or legislating anyone's daily lives.

I'm not sure what some feminists problems are that they can't even accept a man opening a damned door for them without spitting in their faces. If you get to a door before someone else, it's just manners to hold it for them. I wouldn't think of not holding the door for someone else that was right there when I was at the door. I wouldn't think of not saying "thank you" and smiling at someone for holding it for me. I don't "get" where doing so is "chauvinistic". Do we really think men are so stupid they think we can't do it ourselves or think we should be in the kitchen instead of walking through doors somewhere besides home?

What I hate is that women this crazy are held up as the icons of feminism. In reality most women find them bizarrely insane, too.

As far as women judging each other - yep, they do. The more you don't care about what they think, the worse they get, too. But that is It's not just other women that women target. If you listen, not many men are up to par with women who are like this either. Judging everyone else seems to be America's favorite passtime. Don't like something - take away everyone's right to it. There's nothing that is restricted to women or feminism in this attitude. Our whole population has become nosy busybodies who have nothing better to do but point to everyone else and call them inferior. That's what happens in societies that move toward tyranny.....every....single....time.

When traditional roles start to change there's always some meyhem. There's always the far left that thinks we aren't changing enough and villainizes anyone not changing enough for them. There's the far right who villainizes anyone and everyone who wants to change anything. If you look around - you'll see it's not just feminism, it's everywhere. Look at the sh** stay at home dads are going through. It's not as loud, but it's just as vicious. Society expects a man to work, and when he doesn't he's all kinds of terrible things and deserves a park bench and a garbage can for take out food.

The best thing we can do for ourselves in this country is to just chill about the way other people choose to live their lives. If you see someone who is dressed in a way you don't like, don't look, eating what you don't think they should - be thankful that it's not YOUR body they are trashing, staying home with kids instead of working, kewl - we need more stay at home parents of either sex, so if they can afford it, that's really awesome.
Hear some bitch ranting about hating men? Don't ask her for a date (well, maybe, just to be funny).

Most of us are just trying to get through life with as much freedom of expression and choice as we can get. It would be really awesome if everyone else would just decide how they want their own life to run and leave everyone else the hell alone.

Um........really?

Biologically women are the child bearers and men are the physical strength. Biologically, this involves a division of labor. In a non industrialized tribe, the women take care of and socialize the chldren, the village, home and gardens, and men defend (because of physical strength and testosterone, which makes them more aggresive) and hunt. They hunt because 1. physical strength, 2. they are never pregnant or have babies to care for. Ever tried to travel in the wilderness and care for a baby while hunting and defending yourself? Kinda hard to do, ya know?

None of that is "following" the man. It's pure division of labor. Note - many of these tribes are matriarchal and the women actually "wear the pants" in the tribe.

In an industrial society, we are freed up to take over roles that we couldn't in a more nature oriented social structure. Allowing a man to take over some things is not a will to be submissive - it's a will to have some of the load taken off. Working outside the home, raising children, cleaning and cooking, organizing home life, taking care of lawns and cars -- is too much for one person to handle. OF course women are willing to let the guy take care of some stuff at the end of the day -- we don't like being driven into the dirt working 24/7 - gee go figure.

Men are physically stronger. Women who have been raised to defend themselves, don't need a guy for "protection" any more than they appreciate their dogs for "protection". We also don't need a man making decisions for us. No matter how "submissive" women may seem to you, women still expect a man to see her as an intellectual part of a partnership. Maybe she will subordinate to him for some things that she feels he is better at or knows more about -- but if that same man tries to subort her in areas where she's the leading mind, she's not gonna like that any too much. The perfect couple knows each other's strengths and rely on each other for them. There is no "follow". When a woman is glad there's a guy around to move the couch so she can vacuum under it - she's not being subordinate, she's expecting the guy to pull his value...which is upper body strength. Duh.

It might interest you to realize that a lot of the time when women have a guy around with too much testosterone to be able to accept an idea from her - she just presents things in a way to make it seem like he thought of it. Problem solved. After millennium of socializing kids, women are quite adept at manipulation.

The next time you ask a woman out on a date - it might entertain you to examine what just happened and exactly how this woman got you to ask her out. Most likely you were HER choice in the first place. Think about it. LMAO.

Feminism has made it a crime to be a man in America.

maxthemarketer


yes.. Feminism has made relationships in the U.S. more adversarial than anything else.

this is why I originally left.

The problem with feminism in the United States, is many women don't want to relinquish the trappings of pre-feminism, such as men paying for most of the courting process, opening doors, being the male protector etc. Yet, when a man says he's not going to engage in those things anymore, many of these same women accuse him of "not being a real man". Sadly, many men are brainwashed and co-sign this madness. You have women who make over $100K a year, who complain a guy who makes $85K a year asked her to go dutch on the 2nd or 3rd date.

Both, men and women have certain base level hard wiring, that feminism has tried to stuff out of both genders. Its like trying to force a little boy to play with dolls, his core inner being will rebuke it. It has nothing to do with being insecure or close minded. Recently, President Obama was lambasted for jokingly saying California Attorney General Kamala Harris is the prettiest Attorney General he knows. I guess many women thought he was objectifying her, but what's happening is men, who are more educated, but still masculine, are just putting up walls and ignoring women. A lot of modern woman wear all this ultra sexy tight & sheer clothing, yet get mad when a man looks. I think it really has to do with them wanting, to limit those looks to men they're personally attracted to and every one else get the "you ****in perv" stare. I'm a Black American male, but I listen to Tom Leykis on Youtube sometimes (I think he can be a chauvinist sometimes lol), but his core audience is White guys and they have similar complaints). I remember my former manager (who's male) laughingly tell me after work, a few months after I started years ago, that a mildly attractive female was asking people if I was gay, because I was ignoring her and not giving her attention, when she was flaunting her assets in my face. I don't have time for B.S like this, because next thing you know, when she gets angry, you're sitting in Human Resources explaining yourself, most likely to a female H.R Director (I've worked at 4 companies since graduating from college in the late 90's and each H.R Dept was female dominated), so this is not the environment, you want to defend yourself against sexual harassment charges in. Most females at my job accuse me of being unfriendly. Many Black girls have this thing if they are remotely attractive, you're trying to "bang them", just by mere fact of speaking. It's always some "trojan horse" in their minds, if you speak first. Many White women, Asian women (and Latin women to a lesser degree) in NYC have this Black man paranoia, so I typically just keep my distance from them unless necessary, as I don't have time for people to try to make me feel bad about myself, because of their projected fears. It's something me and many of my Black college educated friends joke about, we all have weekly stories, relating to this "phenomena". I was walking to my dept a couple of weeks ago (I wear suits to work) and a newer middle-aged White female tried to hand me a FedEx envelope, while I was passing by. I make twice as much as her, have a higher position, but I still got the "he must be the mailroom guy" rap, no matter how I was dressed. At work, I typically socialize with older females who are past the "all men want me" stage, the few really sociable girls (these are types with male friends) and men (usually ones I have some common ideology with on core issues, important to me). If feminism sucks for you White guys, it's exponentially worse for Black guys. Now many women are emboldened in their displays of rudeness or ignorance. NYC is the capital of this behavior. Talked to some of the homies and I'm seriously thinking about moving to Brazil, when I get my internet and R.E businesses pulling at least $500K a year faithfully, but my parents are still here and getting older, so are my best friends from childhood and college.

Listen, I'm all for women making just as much as men and having all the perks and privileges as men. Speaking from the viewpoint of a Black man, White and Black women have it way easier than me anyway, so maybe I'm biased. Nevertheless, I'm all for people having all their human and civil rights afforded to them, I know first hand what's its like to get the shaft over some racial B.S. So, I'm extremely empathetic to that aspect of the female plight. So, don't become what you despise. That's why I always laugh at how racist, many White feminist are. You saw this up, close and personal, after Barack Obama defeated Hilary Clinton in the 2008 Democratic primary. You saw many White homosexuals spew all types of racist crap, after Prop 8 (gay marriage) was defeated in California several years ago, when Blacks make up only 7% of the California electorate. I treat all races with respect and dont think I'm superior to anybody. At the same time, I dont want any special allowances either, even though institutionalized racism is still rife in our society. Money, power and ownership is the only way out of these quagmires, not begging for crumbs. Power concedes nothing! I respect women who feel the same way. Not ones who expect men to wine & dine them, then complain about some guy at work making $2K a year more than them. Or worse, a women who had tons of sexual partners, then expects me to want to marry her and label me as having a "double standard". Men are less forgiving of cheating and promiscuous pasts and I don't apologize for feeling that way either. That's how most men are hard wired. However, men are now accepting this behavior, under the guise of being "secure in their manhood". This is really just reverse psychology, the old Jedi mind trick. Watch an episode of "Jersey Shore" or "Bridezillas" and these fools (simps as we brothas call them) are marrying these women left and right.

The modern male is supposed to be O.K with sexually promiscuous women, because if men can do it, they can do it. Yet, no sane man, expects a successful women to take them serious, if they are unemployed with 3 roommates. Yet, many successful men can meet a woman in the same situation and be O.K with it, if they are attractive, have goals, a nice, laid back personality and aren't looking for a sugar daddy/sponsor type. I met a women who was laid-off and moved back with her parents temporarily, while she and her friend start a small business. She moved back, so she could pump more of her savings into start-up capital. The sacrifice is to be commended. I offered to help her with a web site and SEO advice, when she was ready. A woman typically would not be so understanding, because they are hard wired to want security and finances are part of that "security". Doesn't mean you have to be rich, but not unemployed, living with your parents either. As a man with his own money, I can see the bigger picture and I'm not hard wired to derive security from my female mate. Every guy I know in a relationship with a woman making more money than him or living in her house, is getting talked down to, disrespected and treated like a child at times. So, this notion of men being insecure about successful women, is a bit intellectually dishonest. Men have their reasons, rooted in some personal experiences. Well, at least the guys I know.

Oh yeah Max, there was an interesting article in the Village Voice, a couple of years ago, talking about why so many good looking, successful people in NYC are single. NYC has an extremely high rate of single men and women over 30, who have never been engaged or married (I'm part of that statistic). It mentioned the night life and all the options NYCers have, but it also touched on NYC woman being more demanding and picky (many times to their own detriment), when selecting a potential mate. The article was watered down, as it was written by a woman, but I agreed with much of her basic premise. The bottomline is, many attractive women in NYC, think it's their birth rite to have some guy who looks like male model, is a millionaire or both. When it doesn't come, then comes the bitterness and the "men are pigs" blame game in their 30's and 40's. No self analysis or catharsis, just sheer projection onto the male species.

Typically, when I met an attractive woman with a really cool personality, 95% of the time, she is not from NYC. Sad, but true.


If I can remember the title, I post it in this thread, as I can't post the link.

Welcome to Earth. This occurs all over the globe in women everywhere, because it's a biologically programmed (genetic) thing.

Although women in different cultures may be attracted to different symbols of status within that particular culture, they are all attracted to status nonetheless.

I could get into more detail but really you would have to study some PUA (pickup artist) material to get the full explanation.

Steve -- where do you live that women still get alimony? Must be another "kids" in the divorce thing because women who don't have kids don't get alimony. There's a lot of things the parent that takes custody of kids get no matter which sex. I don't have kids - I would have to fight for my 50% in a divorce. I'd have no chance of alimony. I was divorced decades ago and couldn't get alimony.

And when I said "just because he has a dick" -- was basically just rough wording for saying that there are guys who think they are to have their own way 24/7 because, and only because, they are male. Don't get me wrong, either - there are men that aren't like that. I was raised in a home where my mother didn't work outside the house and my father had tons of respect for her opinion, and never gave her crap about anything she wanted to do. There was a very huge division of labor - but nobody "ruled" each other. Conflicts were talked about and compromised on. I never heard either say "No, you can't do that."

When I got older and found out that some men thought they were masters and I was, by virtue of my gender, their servant, it was quite a shock to me. So were some of the laws I ran into along the way. I worked at a rape crisis center and saw first hand how brutally oppressive some of the laws were and how rape victims were victimized all over again by the system.

All in all - I know there are some women who have gone nuts enough to hate all men and they would put them into a slave status if they could. I also know men that think they are rulers and kings just because they are male. They're crazy and NOBODY should take them serious. They should walk away at the first sign that is what the person is like. There are too many sane people to associate with to pay attention to the lunatics. I don't care whether it's sexual, racial, political party, religious group or what -- when people get crazy on someone else's rights, they need to be ignored completely until the silence is so strong that they just finally realize that nobody cares about their self aggrandizing delusions and they finally STFU.