Questions About Ghosts

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There are questions I ask people about ghosts.

How is a ghost confined to a home? Is the wooden wall keeping it inside?

If you add an addition onto your home, will it be haunted too?

If you move your home, will the ghost come too, or stay where it is?

What about all the other people over the last many thousands of years that died where your home sits? Where are they?

Are there Cro-Magnon Ghosts? Neanderthal ghosts?

If ghosts speak, how can our ears hear them? Our ears hear vibrations in the air.

Are the ghosts in color? Black and white?

Why do ghosts wear clothes? Did the clothing die with them?

Why don't ghosts ever speak languages other than ours?

If ghosts talk, why would their mouths move? They have no larynx.

If a ghost can walk through walls, how can their feet get traction on the floor?

If ghosts walk through walls, why can't they walk over to the next door neighbor's?

Why do ghosts follow the rotation of the Earth and follow the Earth traveling through space? Why doesn't gravity affect them? Or why does gravity affect them?

Can ghosts remember? How do memories form in a non corporeal form?

Why don't ghosts ever bother me?

Why don't ghosts appear to groups of people. Why don't they ever appear to a group of scientists in a lab?

Why do the words you say (to exorcize a ghost or spirit), affect them..but not us?

When homes are torn down...do the ghosts stay?

Why do ghosts only appear in the dark, and not in an office building with all the lights on?

On Ghost Hunters...why don't they turn on the light? Wouldn't it be easier to see the ghosts?

Why aren't ghosts willing to tell us where they buried the treasure?
  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    It's a glitch in the Matrix.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      The only ghosts I've ever really known very well are Casper, Stretch, Fatso and Stinkie.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Talking of ghosts (and who isn't, these days?), there's another one here, which was finally opened to the public a few days ago, having previously been available only for its crowdfunding investors: About Ghost - The Open Source Blogging Platform
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          I honestly don't know the answers to your questions, Claude.

          They tell you to call Ghost Busters but they never give you the number. If I had it, I would ask them for you. But then again, if I don't believe in ghosts, will they answer?

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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

            I honestly don't know the answers to your questions, Claude.

            They tell you to call Ghost Busters but they never give you the number. If I had it, I would ask them for you. But then again, if I don't believe in ghosts, will they answer?

            Since you brought up the subject, I just want to say that I think GhostBusters was a great movie on many levels, beginning with a great script.
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

              Since you brought up the subject, I just want to say that I think GhostBusters was a great movie on many levels, beginning with a great script.
              I actually watched the movie again last weekend with my son. It's one of his favorites and he has the DVD.

              And when the movie was over, he watched my The Blues Brothers DVD with me.

              Terra
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              • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
                Banned
                I saw ghostbuskers last week.

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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        The only ghosts I've ever really known very well are Casper, Stretch, Fatso and Stinkie.
        Spooky told me to tell you he's horribly insulted and will be paying you a visit soon.

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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    My question is;

    By nature ghosts have no weight or physical form.
    So, how do people hear their footsteps?
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  • Profile picture of the author pcalvert
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Why don't ghosts ever speak languages other than ours?
    Sometimes they do.


    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    Why do ghosts only appear in the dark, and not in an office building with all the lights on?
    That's not a valid question because the statement that "ghosts only appear in the dark" is false.

    Phil
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    That cat won't sit on a cold stove either." - Mark Twain

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I wish my clothing would last as long as ghosts' clothing.
    So, why aren't they naked?
    Ditto if they have no weight or form?

    They won't tell where the treasure is because nobody
    offered a split. Why would a ghost need that?

    What if telling them to go to the light is the wrong thing to tell them?

    The EVP people do claim to have recorded different languages.
    http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/cook-brendan/5676

    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author jfalxr
    I belive they exist. And there's some reasons why they keep surrounding us..
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    I think even the most versed "experts" on this subject can really offer little more than an opinion on any of these questions, but I'll give it a shot.

    In order to answer this, you have to first define what "we" are ... what's our power source ... what is a "soul" if you will. My answer: electricity. Electrons don't generally stick together well - in fact, they repel each other. Yet they pack themselves into high densities in atoms due to the attraction of the positive charge of the atom's nucleus, which is stronger than electron's ability to repel itself from other electrons.

    But what if there's more to it than our basic understanding of electricity and physics? What if those electrons actually retain some memory of their own. There are theories (and even some "proof" although more study is required) that electrical stimulation of the brain has a positive impact on Alzheimers patients, and could eventually be an outright cure. Let's take that a step further... what if the reason we age is because the "bundle of electricity" that powers us fades out over time. Ever play with an old child's toy with weak batteries? When the batteries are fresh, they perform as expected but as the batteries weaken, weird crap happens ... processes slow down, sounds are warped and distorted, lights are dimmer. Kind of like how our bodies slow down, organs don't function the way they're supposed to, cells don't regenerate in the same way as they do in younger people, etc. It's actually very similar.

    So take that ... and combine it with "electrical memory" theory ... and there's your ghost. The remnants of a bundle of electricity that once powered a person. You don't often hear about ghosts of old people who died peacefully in their sleep - sometimes you do right after death, but not for decades later. You only hear those stories for people who died tragically... their BODY failed, but their power source still had a good charge.

    And if there is such a thing as electrical memory, then it's also plausible that it continues to repeat the same things it did while it inhabited a body. It isn't fully "conscious" - just repeating whatever was stored in memory (and occasionally reacting to its environment, kind of like 'muscle memory') until, eventually, it fizzles out. But without the body draining it, that could take a long time.

    So why can't we see or hear them all the time? Further, why is it that alleged spirit activity always seems to be strongest at "dead time", the time at which the sun is on the exact opposite side of the planet from where said activity is taking place? Perhaps it has to do with the sun itself ... afterall, it is the largest source of electrical and radiant energy accessible to the planet. A minor solar flare can take out a satellite or even a power plant, so we know they disrupt electrical patterns. Maybe, assuming there's any merit to the electrical memory theory, that's the reason you don't see ghosts during the day.

    As for other sounds and unexplained phenomena, who knows ... we know electricity is a powerful thing. It's not inconceivable that the right combination of environmental elements could allow a bundle of electrical memories to actually make a sound as it moved through its environment. We know electromagnetic fields can be generated that CANCEL and PROPEL sound ... so wouldn't it also stand to reason they could originate and repeat it? We don't actually hear ghosts speak - we only hear them when played back on recordings. Recordings made with electrical and magnetic energy...

    I don't know the answer ... but I know that there are things in this world we don't fully understand. Things that science may not yet know how to explain. That doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means WE don't know how to compartmentalize it. If you were to travel back in time with a simple tape recorder and show it to even a genius like DaVinci, he could spend his lifetime studying it and never figure out how it works or how it came to exist. We're only as intelligent as the combination of knowledge that came before us, combined with our own.

    When you think about it, we can't even accurately predict whether it's going to rain tomorrow - our calculations are based largely on a collection of historic data, not genuine knowledge of how weather systems really work. Just observation and estimation. So to me, it fits right in with the "arrogance of man" to think we have all the answers, or to say a phenomenon doesn't exist, simply because we aren't intelligent enough to understand it.
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  • Profile picture of the author jobtardis
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by jobtardis View Post

      can you tell me about the ghosts updation
      Yes. It's Ghosts 2.0 now.

      They are unfortunately unreliable, failing to start up and shut down as expected.

      Occasionally inexplicable noises emanate from them. The fan may be broken.


      Now that our spammer friend, who is slyly trying to increase his post count by using the Off Topic forum to ask irrelevant questions, has been dealt with, let's get serious.

      I recommend The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot.

      Ghosts may be bits and pieces of information not commonly visible in this level of reality. Sometimes those chunks of intention or film slices of the past may show up here. Nobody really knows how reality works: we just think we do. How many of us know how a microwave or TV or even an escalator works...but we use them all the time anyway.

      All the info is present in everything (that's the holograph), but not always manifesting in our physical world.

      Now consider an animal or insect or fish that cannot see. It has other senses to interpret the world around it, but cannot see anything. It's used to the input from those other senses. And it's totally unaware that "seeing" is possible. Now we'll flash moments of "seeing" (which some parapsychological studies have shown can be done through a person's hands rather than their eyes, or remotely) into that being's consciousness...what is it going to think of and do with that information?

      For it, that experience would be very strange. Momentary, elusive, uncontrollable, unused-to, incomplete. Frightening. Very much like our "ghost" experience, isn't it? But not invalid or false.
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  • Profile picture of the author PROmotions LLC
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    There are questions I ask people about ghosts...


    How is a ghost confined to a home? Is the wooden wall keeping it inside?

    Yes, most wood and building material are natural Ghost containers.


    If you add an addition onto your home, will it be haunted too?

    Yes, if it is open to the old portion of the home.


    If you move your home, will the ghost come too, or stay where it is?


    It will stay where it is, unless the Ghost really likes you, it will travel with you.


    What about all the other people over the last many thousands of years that died where your home sits? Where are they?

    Ghost have collective souls.


    Are there Cro-Magnon Ghosts? Neanderthal ghosts?

    Yes, that is why most Ghosts are heard moaning or groaning.


    If ghosts speak, how can our ears hear them? Our ears hear vibrations in the air.

    Those are ghost farts that we are hearing.



    Are the ghosts in color? Black and white?

    Yes, they are in color.


    Why do ghosts wear clothes? Did the clothing die with them?

    Yes, anything on or in the Ghost dies as well.


    Why don't ghosts ever speak languages other than ours?

    That would be inconvenient


    If ghosts talk, why would their mouths move? They have no larynx.

    Force of Habbit.


    If a ghost can walk through walls, how can their feet get traction on the floor?

    They have special shoes.



    If ghosts walk through walls, why can't they walk over to the next door neighbor's?

    They do! Sometimes Ghosts switch houses if they can, and take turns.



    Why do ghosts follow the rotation of the Earth and follow the Earth traveling through space? Why doesn't gravity affect them? Or why does gravity affect them?

    Again, special shoes.



    Can ghosts remember? How do memories form in a non corporeal form?

    They just do!


    Why don't ghosts ever bother me?

    Ghosts don't bother people who would be interested rather than scared by them.


    Why don't ghosts appear to groups of people. Why don't they ever appear to a group of scientists in a lab?

    That would be too convenient.


    Why do the words you say (to exorcize a ghost or spirit), affect them..but not us?

    You have to be dead for it to work.


    When homes are torn down...do the ghosts stay?

    Unfortuantly, no, they become homeless.



    Why do ghosts only appear in the dark, and not in an office building with all the lights on?

    They do sometimes, but it's not the scariest time.


    On Ghost Hunters...why don't they turn on the light? Wouldn't it be easier to see the ghosts?

    Ghosts are so transparent sometimes, the light would make them harder to see.


    Why aren't ghosts willing to tell us where they buried the treasure?

    They only tell a few people.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by PROmotions LLC View Post

      How is a ghost confined to a home? Is the wooden wall keeping it inside?

      Yes, most wood and building material are natural Ghost containers.
      I know you are joking (based on all our responses). But I actually had someone say exactly the same thing in earnest. I thought it was a pretty good attempt at explaining one of the "rules" of ghosts.

      It wasn't the time to debate, or ask questions....so here is what I wanted to ask

      What about hospitals, shelters, factories, asylums? Concrete walls, not wood.

      What happens when someone opens a door?

      Why can't ghosts slip under the door to get into other rooms? Or can they?

      When ghost hunters use electromagnetic instruments to detect ghosts...why are the ghosts always near an electrical outlet?


      When I was studying and practicing Kung Fu, my instructor was really into Chinese supernatural beliefs. He told me that ghosts were reflections of a living person, an echo.

      He believed that you could talk to them, and they could talk back to you. but they couldn't learn new information. He was convinced that the amount of Chi in your body determined how well you perceived these ghosts. He also thought that warriors could transfer their Chi to weapons.

      He was convinced that, at some point, you could learn Kung Fu from the spirits of dead Masters.

      And while I never said out loud that I didn't believe in such things (It would have been an insult), it was fascinating to listen to him.
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      • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


        He was convinced that the amount of Chi in your body determined how well you perceived these ghosts.
        Liquor is the word I'd have opted for.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Claude:

        I'm going to answer some of your questions based on what I "know" about paranormal investigation and what They consider answers to your questions. I don't believe everything I'm about to say. It's simply the "industry answer" to your questions as I've seen them answered.

        While I'm not a religious man, I'm humble enough to believe there might just be a higher power, an intelligent designer of some sort. If I'm ready to accept that on faith, it's not such a stretch to believe there might be ghosts in some form or other.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I know you are joking (based on all our responses). But I actually had someone say exactly the same thing in earnest. I thought it was a pretty good attempt at explaining one of the "rules" of ghosts.

        It wasn't the time to debate, or ask questions....so here is what I wanted to ask

        What about hospitals, shelters, factories, asylums? Concrete walls, not wood.

        What happens when someone opens a door?

        Why can't ghosts slip under the door to get into other rooms? Or can they?

        The theory is that ghosts aren't bound by the phyisicality of things. Walls, barriers, floors mean nothing. They're bound to objects by memory. Much as we tend not to want to let go of a precious momento, spirits may be bound to a similar object, person or place. Or the "spirit" may just be left over energy replaying itself like a scene from a movie, over and over again. As such, there's nothing limiting them. It's just a replay. Nothing sentient about it.

        When ghost hunters use electromagnetic instruments to detect ghosts...why are the ghosts always near an electrical outlet?

        Limiting question with a limiting assumption. I've seen instruments go off in the woods with nothing electrical around. I've seen call and response. Trickery? Potentially, possibly and probably.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

          Claude:
          While I'm not a religious man, I'm humble enough to believe there might just be a higher power, an intelligent designer of some sort. If I'm ready to accept that on faith, it's not such a stretch to believe there might be ghosts in some form or other.
          My Friend;

          It isn't humility. If I were a believer, I'd be the same pompous blowhard I am now.

          But I agree with you that if you are a believer in a higher power, then much of the supernatural sort of easily fits in place.

          I was kind of joking about the "ghosts near electrical outlets" thing.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            My Friend;

            It isn't humility. If I were a believer, I'd be the same pompous blowhard I am now.

            But I agree with you that if you are a believer in a higher power, then much of the supernatural sort of easily fits in place.

            I was kind of joking about the "ghosts near electrical outlets" thing.
            Claude, my humble comment wasn't a dig on you. More of a general statement related to a single person's relative worth in the grand scheme of things.

            Of course, I'm sure you'd be just as pompous no matter your beliefs.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

              Claude, my humble comment wasn't a dig on you. More of a general statement related to a single person's relative worth in the grand scheme of things.

              Of course, I'm sure you'd be just as pompous no matter your beliefs.
              My opinion (Not a fact) is that in the grandest scheme of things, nothing matters. We have no influence at all.

              So my feeling of importance wouldn't change at all.

              I think (based on a lot of conversation)... that you are a rational intelligent person...who deep down is a believer. Maybe not religious in many ways, but a believer in your core.

              And in my core, I am not.

              You may find this interesting. As a younger man, I was intellectually an atheist, but still had deep emotional ties to a religious upbringing. Not the "I love Jesus, and he loves us" kind, but the "Demons are around us, and they want to kill us" kind. Essentially the mother in the Carrie movie. (but not quite as insane).

              So, through the years, every time I would see a truly scary movie (of a supernatural nature), I would still get a strong chill up my spine...real fear. I had no control over it. Part of me, deep down was still reacting as though it were real. I sure hope I'm explaining this correctly.

              Anyway, this last Saturday, I was in a Holiday Inn (on a speaking gig) and watched MAMA. A very good, and scary supernatural horror movie.

              I was alone, in the dark, watching a very scary movie. Nothing. No chills, no reaction at all. I think, after 58 years, I've cured myself..finally of these deep seated fears. To me, it was simply a very well done movie....that happened to be about ghosts.

              Anyway, I thought it was interesting.
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Anyway, this last Saturday, I was in a Holiday Inn (on a speaking gig) and watched MAMA. A very good, and scary supernatural horror movie.

                I was along, in the dark, watching a very scary movie. Nothing. No chills, no reaction at all. I think, after 58 years, I've cured myself..finally of these deep seated fears. To me, it was simply a very well done movie....that happened to be about ghosts.

                Anyway, I thought it was interesting.
                I find that very interesting as well, Claude.

                Let me explain:

                Both hubby and I believe the same thing. (I think you know my beliefs) Anyway, when we see a scary supernatural horror flick, I'm biting my nails, scream at parts and don't want to walk in the house after dark without all of the lights on. Hubby doesn't get scared, never utters a peep and will walk not only in the house completely dark, but all over the 3 acres of our yard in the dark with no flashlight or lantern or anything without any hesitation.

                Same beliefs, different reactions.

                Ha! The only reason he will go to haunted houses, (says he) is to watch my reactions for the sheer entertainment factor. He's always laughing at me!

                So he believes the same as I, however, reacts the same as you.

                Your thoughts?

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  I find that very interesting as well, Claude.

                  Let me explain:

                  Both hubby and I believe the same thing. (I think you know my beliefs) Anyway, when we see a scary supernatural horror flick, I'm biting my nails, scream at parts and don't want to walk in the house after dark without all of the lights on. Hubby doesn't get scared, never utters a peep and will walk not only in the house completely dark, but all over the 3 acres of our yard in the dark with no flashlight or lantern or anything without any hesitation.

                  Same beliefs, different reactions.

                  Ha! The only reason he will go to haunted houses, (says he) is to watch my reactions for the sheer entertainment factor. He's always laughing at me!

                  So he believes the same as I, however, reacts the same as you.

                  Your thoughts?

                  Terra
                  Dearest Terra;

                  I don't know. Maybe he just isn't afraid of ghosts.

                  My first wife was very religious. We went to see The Exorcist. I had seen it before, but she hadn't. She laughed several times. And it didn't frighten her at all. I chalked it up to her simply not understanding the movie. But who knows.

                  I can say this. I was a believer. But it was way different than most people. I was a "scared sh1tless" believer. Everything unknown, was out to kill me and was the worst kind of evil. There are many types of believers, and many different reactions to the same belief.

                  That's a roundabout way of saying...I have no idea why it affects you both differently.

                  Why are you afraid of spiders? Why are some of us afraid of the dark? Why are some really afraid of snakes? These are irrational fears, a few of which I share.

                  I can tell you now, that if, for some reason, I suddenly shared your beliefs...I wouldn't be afraid. And I have no idea why. But I would certainly be fascinated. And I would probably be consumed by the subject.

                  Maybe your husband simply sees ghosts differently than you. Or he's just not afraid, by nature.

                  But, yeah, I would also be watching the reactions in a haunted house.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    Dearest Terra;

                    I don't know. Maybe he just isn't afraid of ghosts.

                    My first wife was very religious. We went to see The Exorcist. I had seen it before, but she hadn't. She laughed several times. And it didn't frighten her at all. I chalked it up to her simply not understanding the movie. But who knows.

                    I can say this. I was a believer. But it was way different than most people. I was a "scared sh1tless" believer. Everything unknown, was out to kill me and was the worst kind of evil. There are many types of believers, and many different reactions to the same belief.

                    That's a roundabout way of saying...I have no idea why it affects you both differently.

                    Why are you afraid of spiders? Why are some of us afraid of the dark? Why are some really afraid of snakes? These are irrational fears, a few of which I share.

                    I can tell you now, that if, for some reason, I suddenly shared your beliefs...I wouldn't be afraid. And I have no idea why. But I would certainly be fascinated. And I would probably be consumed by the subject.

                    Maybe your husband simply sees ghosts differently than you. Or he's just not afraid, by nature.

                    But, yeah, I would also be watching the reactions in a haunted house.
                    My Charming Claude,

                    You know what I'm thinking?

                    I'm thinking that our belief systems very much have to do with our personal experiences as a child. Not 100%, but partially, perhaps.

                    For instance, I had a spider jump towards my face when I was little and I'm sure my fear stems from that.

                    Also, when I was a child, I had recurring nightmares where I was at the drive-in on the playground and tired of sliding down the little blue elephant slide. So I decided to to go on the big silver medal one like the bigger kids. I climbed all the way up, but when I went to step forward to slide down, I lost my balance and fell backwards off the slide. The trip down always seemed to last forever and I always woke up just before I hit bottom.

                    I now have a tremendous fear of heights, much much more intense than that of spiders.

                    So I'm thinking maybe childhood experiences, whether real or dreamed, may have something to do with it.

                    By the way, The Exorcist didn't scare me either.

                    But Jaws sure did!

                    Terra
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                      My Charming Claude,

                      You know what I'm thinking?

                      I'm thinking that our belief systems very much have to do with our personal experiences as a child. Not 100%, but partially, perhaps.
                      I think that our childhood memories create our phobias. And our cultural and religious beliefs in childhood become hardwired into out brain. These beliefs become nearly impossible to break. Good-bad, true-false...it doesn't matter. At least that's my observation.

                      I think (because I've made this a real study) that once someone is an adult, it's almost impossible to change someone's mind about their belief system.

                      Imagine being in ancient Rome...you see people teaching that Zeus lives in the clouds in Olympus. That Thor creates the lightening.

                      The people believing that carried those beliefs to their grave.

                      Last weekend I was speaking to a group of business owners. I had a conversation with a successful business owner. he seemed nice enough. Suddenly a Korean man talked to us for a few second, and this guy's demeanor changed. For the next half hour I listened as he told me how the Koreans were evil, and how they are destroying our country.

                      He spewed this bile until I had to walk away.

                      This man will believe this until he's dead. And the next generation (of his family) will start a little more enlightened.

                      I see some things that people in India eat, and I want to throw up. But if I were raised there, it would be as natural as breathing.

                      Beliefs (of any kind) die hard.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        I think that our childhood memories create our phobias.
                        Absolutely, many irrational fears come from childhood, set in place either by a direct experience or by mental programming passed on to us from parents, siblings, and peers.

                        And our cultural and religious beliefs in childhood become hardwired into out brain. These beliefs become nearly impossible to break. Good-bad, true-false...it doesn't matter. At least that's my observation.
                        Many beliefs of all kinds come from childhood. Many are programmed into our brain before we learn to think for ourselves. They can be broken by reprogramming our minds with our preferred thinking, but it's not easy. I've actually written the first draft of a book on this topic.

                        I think (because I've made this a real study) that once someone is an adult, it's almost impossible to change someone's mind about their belief system.
                        Impossible by force of will. They have to be willing to change and be open minded enough to consider alternative ideas.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                          Impossible by force of will. They have to be willing to change and be open minded enough to consider alternative ideas.
                          Dennis; If you like, I'll tell you how I changed my way of thinking about many childhood beliefs. It may prove useful for your book (Or your next one). I can tell you here or by PM.

                          You're right about willpower. It's something else. You may find it useful.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                            Dennis; If you like, I'll tell you how I changed my way of thinking about many childhood beliefs. It may prove useful for your book (Or your next one). I can tell you here or by PM.

                            You're right about willpower. It's something else. You may find it useful.
                            Whichever you prefer, Claude, it doesn't matter to me. I'd be interested to see if it's the same thing I've used myself. We do have some similarities in our backgrounds as I recall.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                              Whichever you prefer, Claude, it doesn't matter to me. I'd be interested to see if it's the same thing I've used myself. We do have some similarities in our backgrounds as I recall.
                              Ok. When I was maybe 12, I was taught a justification for a religious belief. The logic didn't make sense to me, so I explained to the person holding the "meeting" the flaw I saw in the logic, and asked for clarification. I was chastised for questioning the "sacred text". But I knew the logic was flawed. That was the first minor chink in my belief. I actually thought we were all on a quest for knowledge..... I was shocked to find out that wasn't true.

                              I bought a book Guides To Straight Thinking. It had several logical fallacies outlined and their common uses. I started seeing the structure of bad arguments in every part of previously cherished beliefs.

                              My real beginning of thinking clearer was when I forced myself to think of my belief as a problem in logic. I had to strip away what the belief was, and concentrate solely on the structure of the argument.

                              What was very hard was to not rely on, what I had been thinking of as facts, but were instead beliefs I accepted... because I thought the people who taught them to me knew.

                              I reasoned that if something were real (true), that hard inquiry would prove it, or at least support it. So I had to ignore the actual belief, and ask hard questions like;

                              Is the explanation for the belief based on other beliefs, or real evidence?

                              I studied circular logic, and started seeing it used to "prove" many claims made about certain beliefs.

                              For example; A boy talks to a stranger and tells his mother that he talked to an Angel. The mother says "How do you know it was an angel?" And the boy says "He said so, and Angels cannot lie".

                              I would see fuzzy logic. Meaning arguing "Well, if this is true, isn't that true?" when the first premise was never established as true. I would hear third hand anecdotal stories as evidence.

                              Beliefs started to crumble.

                              Ever clean out a turkey? Unpleasant. I would have to completely ignore what I was doing, and just do the job. It was the same with analyzing my own thoughts. I had to ignore the thought itself, and just see the argument, or rather the template of the argument. It would look very much like an algebra problem, but with semantics.

                              It got to the point where I was asking myself "What is a fact?". I decided that a fact was something that still remained unchanged after being attacked from all angles. Laws of physics that were the same every time, no matter how they were used. They worked. If I would create a logical argument, I would then try to find an example where it wouldn't work. There were no exceptions allowed. One flaw, and it meant the whole thing was wrong.

                              If, after an idea was attacked, I softened my idea, I realized that the idea was wrong. There is no such thing (to me) as "Kind of true"...

                              Now, I'll ask a person's opinion who is knowledgeable in an area. I'll often take the opposing side of what I really think...and let them argue my side. Most times I'll find a flaw in my thinking, and adjust. Sometimes I'll discover that both sides are wrong. Often because the whole subject is based on a myth.

                              The secret is to genuinely not care what the outcome is. It's the power of all real testing. Not trying to prove one way or another. It's what the best scientists do, when agendas don't get in the way.

                              Just wanting to know. To only think about it as a problem to be solved...with no agenda. Only using the analytical part of the brain.

                              If you find yourself liking a result...or disliking a result...many times it means you are influencing the result. I have to watch myself.

                              It isn't poetic, and doesn't ever make for pleasant dinner conversation...I've learned.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I know you are joking (based on all our responses). But I actually had someone say exactly the same thing in earnest. I thought it was a pretty good attempt at explaining one of the "rules" of ghosts.

        It wasn't the time to debate, or ask questions....so here is what I wanted to ask

        What about hospitals, shelters, factories, asylums? Concrete walls, not wood.

        What happens when someone opens a door?

        Why can't ghosts slip under the door to get into other rooms? Or can they?


        When ghost hunters use electromagnetic instruments to detect ghosts...why are the ghosts always near an electrical outlet?


        When I was studying and practicing Kung Fu, my instructor was really into Chinese supernatural beliefs. He told me that ghosts were reflections of a living person, an echo.

        He believed that you could talk to them, and they could talk back to you. but they couldn't learn new information. He was convinced that the amount of Chi in your body determined how well you perceived these ghosts. He also thought that warriors could transfer their Chi to weapons.

        He was convinced that, at some point, you could learn Kung Fu from the spirits of dead Masters.

        And while I never said out loud that I didn't believe in such things (It would have been an insult), it was fascinating to listen to him.
        Your going to love watching supernatural then, it explains ( in an almost
        credible way ) all of your questions

        Listing to a true believers is always fascinating ... well as long as they are
        coherent.

        ... and maybe ghosts aren't really ghosts at all, maybe "they" are just
        random anomalies seeping through from other dimensions.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          Your going to love watching supernatural then, it explains ( in an almost
          credible way ) all of your questions

          Listing to a true believers is always fascinating ... well as long as they are
          coherent.
          Ken; I watch Supernatural sometimes. Very well done. Whether it's a TV show or a real set of beliefs..we're all still intelligent. So the beliefs have to be consistent and connect in a coherent way. It was the same, always. The Roman gods had complex stories that were consistent and answered many questions about our world.

          In another thread, the conspiracy theories have their own logic. And I've talked to Astrologers that have a very complex, coherent system that has a logic to it.

          And that's why it's so very difficult to argue with believers. They aren't unarmed.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        When ghost hunters use electromagnetic instruments to detect ghosts...why are the ghosts always near an electrical outlet?
        HUH? First of all, they need power for most electromagnetic instruments. If that power is from the outlets, an outlet will be nearby. Maybe the ghosts are elsewhere and can't be detected. Some areas have interesting building codes. In Indiana, you are supposed to have an outlet every 12 feet! So there may be an outlet nearby.

        Of course, it WOULD be neat if they just setup a tank circuit! THEY require NO provided power. If they sense a magnetic field, they generate the power.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


    Why aren't ghosts willing to tell us where they buried the treasure?
    coz socialentry stole it from them and there's no more treasure to be had.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Claude - here's the best explanations I can give.

    A Ghost: the ectoplasm entity - is confined because something in the home absorbed the energy of the entity and stresses on whatever absorbed the energy (think something like quartz formation under the house) plays it back when stressed somehow. For instance, temperature or ground shifting. This type of "ghost" is merely a recording.

    If a ghost does more active stuff than just appear in the same "recorded" type of scenerio, it is not a ghost but a spirit. This could be demons, or poltergiests, etc, but is not a "ghost" in the normal sense of the word. If it follows you from house to house, it is most likely a poltergeist that you have picked up somehow. Poltergeists aren't associated with the house, but a person or people living in the house.

    Not sure if demons are protecting ground or after specific people. Not real motivated to find that one out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


      If a ghost does more active stuff than just appear in the same "recorded" type of scenerio, it is not a ghost but a spirit. This could be demons, or poltergiests, etc, but is not a "ghost" in the normal sense of the word.

      Not sure if demons are protecting ground or after specific people.
      I'll get my lads in the office in the morning and give them a grilling (literally). If I find out a single demon has been squatting on the patch of a ghost or poltergeist, they're toast.

      Heck, only last month I had a lawsuit because a sprite pitched up in Claude's garage, and ruffled his Marvel comic collection a little.

      Yours
      H.Devil
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    .

    Claude

    I know you were curious about this too, but were too much of a gentleman to ask, so..

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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      This is all very well, but the really important question about ghosts is: what's the best song with 'ghost' in the title?

      Two top contenders:


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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      .

      Claude

      I know you were curious about this too, but were too much of a gentleman to ask, so..


      And the recipe for ghost poop soup for his dining pleasure.



      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Hmmmm, l thought that this thread would get much sillier than this by now, but some have given some good explanations.

        True ghosts in the true sence of the word, are either mindless entity's, that are barely self aware that they are dead let along being a pest to some humans, etc.

        Or because of some traumatic event or strong ego from the individual before death, they can become more of a destructive force!


        Then there are just decent people who passed over and just want to visit!


        But it doesn't matter if it is dark or not, anyone who develops there senses enough can spot them if they want!

        But only if they want. I need to stress that point! It isn't like Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost, hear one, and you get a que, but hear or see one, and more are possible, but only if you want.

        There is a cut off switch!


        If you are wondering what the latest fashion is in Heaven, purple and black apparently!


        I know that you need to figure out whether l have been to the meth lab too many times, etc. But l will leave that up to you, or people reading this. :rolleyes:

        PS I don't have a meth lab!


        Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    There's also a theory that anything we call a "ghost" that is not just a hologram playing energy back is actually just a being that exists in another dimension that has somehow crossed the dimensional barrier somehow. That one spooks me more than any other explanation for some reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      There's also a theory that anything we call a "ghost" that is not just a hologram playing energy back is actually just a being that exists in another dimension that has somehow crossed the dimensional barrier somehow. That one spooks me more than any other explanation for some reason.
      I am closer to believing that then any other "explanation"

      If you follow the math you can see how it is a very real possibility.

      Unproven but sound. ( for now any way :rolleyes: )
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Farts are the ghosts of food we eat.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      Farts are the ghosts of food we eat.
      LOL, Ron!

      Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      Farts are the ghosts of food we eat.
      Then my mother-in-law has consumed the entire contents of a Taco Bell restaurant.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

        Then my mother-in-law has consumed the entire contents of a Taco Bell restaurant.
        When I was a courier, there was a dispatcher who would tell us to
        enjoy Taco Bell when we said we had to stop for gas.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          When I was a courier, there was a dispatcher who would tell us to
          enjoy Taco Bell when we said we had to stop for gas.
          Were you a bicycle messenger?
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Were you a bicycle messenger?
            LOL. Nah, I don't like riding bicycles around cars and I liked to drive.
            Also, I could take my dogs with me.

            Dan
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Were you a bicycle messenger?
            Dan; I have considered your question from all angles. After careful consideration, I find a flaw in your logic. Bicycles don't require gasoline. And so the "Taco Bell" reference is not apropos.

            And Dan; I believe the "gas" being discussed is more likely meant as a joke; Meaning flatulence.

            So....if you mean "flatulence", then the comment is germane to the discussion. If you meant petrol, it was not.

            I'm currently going through a "Pompous jerk wannabe genius" phase.
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            • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Dan; I have considered your question from all angles. After careful consideration, I find a flaw in your logic. Bicycles don't require gasoline. And so the "Taco Bell" reference is not apropos.

              And Dan; I believe the "gas" being discussed is more likely meant as a joke; Meaning flatulence.

              So....if you mean "flatulence", then the comment is germane to the discussion. If you meant petrol, it was not.

              I'm currently in a "Pompous jerk wannabe genius" phase.
              It's all Ron's fault though.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              Dan; I have considered your question from all angles. After careful consideration, I find a flaw in your logic. Bicycles don't require gasoline. And so the "Taco Bell" reference is not apropos.

              And Dan; I believe the "gas" being discussed is more likely meant as a joke; Meaning flatulence.

              So....if you mean "flatulence", then the comment is germane to the discussion. If you meant petrol, it was not.

              I'm currently going through a "Pompous jerk wannabe genius" phase.

              You've accomplished something here that is quite rare: you've left me speechless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Thanks Claude. That's good stuff. It's not the same as what I've written about (not in the book, I've touched on it in my newsletter before though). The book is more about reprogramming unwanted thought habits. Beliefs, in the context of the book, are treated as a part of habitual thinking.

    I don't know if I'll ever release it. It may just be an exercise in clarifying my own thinking.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Thanks Claude. That's good stuff. It's not the same as what I've written about (not in the book, I've touched on it in my newsletter before though). The book is more about reprogramming unwanted thought habits. Beliefs, in the context of the book, are treated as a part of habitual thinking.

      I don't know if I'll ever release it. It may just be an exercise in clarifying my own thinking.
      Thanks Dennis; Another way I think of facts now is as either Invented or Discovered. When I hear a new fact, I try to determine when this was discovered and how it was verified. In other words, was the "fact" created...and then reasons were added later...or was the fact discovered and then tested?

      For example, the saying "Believe it, and then you'll see it" means the fact is invented, and won't withstand scrutiny.

      Anyway, good luck on your book. I'd love to buy a copy when it's available.

      If you have questions about how to get it published and listed on Amazon.com, I've had three (soon four) books published and sold on Amazon, so I could make it easier for you. No charge.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


        Anyway, good luck on your book. I'd love to buy a copy when it's available.
        Thanks Claude. I don't know if I'll ever publish it, but if you PM your email address to me I'll send you the Introduction and maybe the first chapter.

        If you have questions about how to get it published and listed on Amazon.com, I've had three (soon four) books published and sold on Amazon, so I could make it easier for you. No charge.
        Thanks again, Claude. Very kind of you. I've had three books sold on Amazon but they were published a publisher. I signed up for CreateSpace (I assume that's what you used) for this book, and got as far as having a proof copy shipped to me before deciding to put it on hold.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Dennis, Claude, Terra,

    I'm glad you shared your thoughts about thinking processes here
    rather than PM. It was informative.

    Childhood does have a huge impact of course. In high school, there
    were these three sisters and their parents must have had puritanical
    beliefs about sex. One of the girls (16 at the time), after she had lost
    her virginity, seriously asked if her virginity would grow back.

    I'm the youngest of four, and looking back now, I think how much impact
    the middle two older siblings had upon me. If I had kids, I'd be very careful
    about who I let them hang around and what all they are expose to.

    Events that happen in childhood have a much bigger impact than the same
    event happening to an older kid or an adult. Terra probably would not have
    a fear of spiders or heights if the events happened to her at an older age.

    With respect to habitual thinking processes, years ago I worked for an organization
    that settled civil disputes. A lot of union/management issues. There is a lot of
    ingrained thinking on both sides. Union folks almost always think x,y,z
    about management and vice-versa. When I left to start a consulting firm centered around
    going for common goals and objectives, reps for both sides asked if I was
    pro-union or pro-management. I was not really going to go after unionized
    environments because I think both sides should work for the same things.

    Maybe some different market segments or target markets for your books, Dennis?

    Dan

    PS - I seriously sort of do wonder about the ghosts and clothing thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    I never heard of a woman say she saw a ghost when showering. Proof there are no male ghosts out there anyway.

    I've always wondered if ghosts could walk through walls and people, what keeps them up on the surface of the earth?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      I never heard of a woman say she saw a ghost when showering. Proof there are no male ghosts out there anyway.

      I've always wondered if ghosts could walk through walls and people, what keeps them up on the surface of the earth?
      And why are they the size of a person? Why aren't they 6 inches tall...or 35 feet tall? What energy source do they use? What keeps them going?

      How can they hear you, if they have no inner ear bones?

      How can they speak with no voice box, no lungs?

      How can they see with no retinas?

      When I watch Youtube videos of ghosts, I wonder "How did the guy with the camera know there was going to be a ghost at that exact time, at that exact location?"

      You know what I would love to believe? That they are from the future, and this is the closest thing to time travel they have so far.

      From another dimension? You mean the dimension where they wear clothes like us, are our shape and size, and speak English? That dimension?


      I do love the illustration of how we would perceive a three dimensional object if we lived in a two dimensional world. It would be freaky. The extrapolation of that is that a four dimensional universe would look freaky to us. And I wish I had something to support that idea, because it's very appealing.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        From another dimension? You mean the dimension where they wear clothes like us, are our shape and size, and speak English? That dimension?


        I do love the illustration of how we would perceive a three dimensional object if we lived in a two dimensional world. It would be freaky. The extrapolation of that is that a four dimensional universe would look freaky to us. And I wish I had something to support that idea, because it's very appealing.
        3 or 4? Why limit yourself. Try 11 in the 90's ... 02 or 03 brought
        the theory that dimensions were multi layered and NOT the same size.
        glashow has spent years trying to debunk it and has failed spectacularly
        and a few years ago started trying to figure out ....

        ( in super simplified terms )

        If there are dimensions ... do events within contradict or determine
        what happens within ... specifically speaking ...

        are they connected ... and if our world ends ... what happens to
        the other dimensions ( if anything ) last I heard hundreds of people are
        currently working on that theory. Some say they have proven it
        other say its debunked ...

        but I have seen nothing in the journals so its hearsay.


        Stuff right out of comic books and sci-fi

        Is it true? hell if i know. but how cool will it be if it turns out
        to be true .... in reality, not just on paper ....

        Imagine the possibilities ...
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    • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
      Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

      I never heard of a woman say she saw a ghost when showering. Proof there are no male ghosts out there anyway.

      I've always wondered if ghosts could walk through walls and people, what keeps them up on the surface of the earth?
      Hello David,

      The early episodes of Ghost Whisperer were based on the real life stories of an American woman, Mary Ann Winkowski, who was also a consultant for the television series. In her book "When Ghosts Speak" she tells of a funny incident when she first went to meet Jennifer Love Hewitt at her home prior to the first season of shooting the series.

      She found a young male spirit or ghost living with Jennifer who freely admitted one of his pleasures was watching her having her showers. It turned out he had gone to the same High School with Jennifer, but had been killed in a car crash sometime after. After being outed with Jennifer he agreed to go into the light and out of her life.

      Unfortunately later series were made up stories, and no where near as interesting as the real stories. They spoiled the show by doing that.

      Her book would be an interesting read for anyone who really wants to learn more about Ghosts.
      Lindy
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      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
        Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

        Hello David,

        The early episodes of Ghost Whisperer were based on the real life stories of an American woman, Mary Ann Winkowski, who was also a consultant for the television series. In her book "When Ghosts Speak" she tells of a funny incident when she first went to meet Jennifer Love Hewitt at her home prior to the first season of shooting the series.

        She found a young male spirit or ghost living with Jennifer who freely admitted one of his pleasures was watching her having her showers. It turned out he had gone to the same High School with Jennifer, but had been killed in a car crash sometime after. After being outed with Jennifer he agreed to go into the light and out of her life.

        Unfortunately later series were made up stories, and no where near as interesting as the real stories. They spoiled the show by doing that.

        Her book would be an interesting read for anyone who really wants to learn more about Ghosts.
        Lindy
        Wow, I haven't seen that show in a long time. Those earlier episodes were really interesting, and the only ones I liked.

        When I heard stories of kids talking to their dead grandparents, and offering some kind of proof of knowledge that was before their time, always sent chills down my back.
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        • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
          Here's an article from US MSN:

          Nearly one-in-five U.S. adults (18 percent) say they've seen or been in the presence of a ghost, according to a 2009 Pew Research Center survey. An even greater share - 29 percent - say they have felt in touch with someone who has already died.

          Claude Fischer, a professor of sociology at the University of California, Berkeley, explored Americans' persisting beliefs in some supernatural phenomena in a recent blog post.

          "As we approach Halloween, note that most American adults in the 21st Century say that they believe in life after death and in the devil," Fischer wrote, citing data from Gallup and other sources. "Over one-third say that they believe in the spirits of the dead coming back; about that many also say they believe in haunted houses."

          Despite the influence of modern secularism and science, he observed, "the magic has not totally gone."

          Does going to church help keep ghosts away? It's impossible to say, but people who often go to worship services appear to be less likely to say they see ghosts. Just 11 percent of those who attend religious services at least weekly say they've been in the presence of a ghost, while 23 percent of those who attend services less frequently say they have seen a ghost, the Pew Research survey said.

          Lindy
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I think what Claude wrote in OT neatly summarizes what is known about ghost sightings. They are often seen by several people at the same time although not everyone can see them. The chances are that if you have not seen a ghost by 30, you will never see one in your life. Although many sightings are well documented, there is scant evidence that they are actually souls of deceased persons. Rather, they seem to be a sort of imprinted memory.

    There are a couple of points I disagree with the OT though. The majority of our local sightings occur in broad daylight and sometimes in the office. I actually reported such a story in another thread here. In that case, the Hong Kong government knowingly leased an apartment for use for their education department at a very low price in a residential building. The workers there kept on seeing an apparition during office hours. Eventually they found out that a young woman had committed suicide there in 1973. My mother and I knew a number of people who worked there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      They are often seen by several people at the same time although not everyone can see them.

      The chances are that if you have not seen a ghost by 30, you will never see one in your life.
      Why do you think these things are true? Let's assume that they are true. Then there is a reason that they are true. A cause.

      If there is a cat in the middle of a room..everyone sees it. How is a ghost different?

      Why does it matter how old you are? Assuming your eyes worked well, what would be the difference? If a cat were sitting in the middle of the floor, everyone would see it, regardless of age.

      I'm not trying to be difficult, really. But these are things I've never heard before.

      Here's a thought I had..

      If the idea of ghosts had never been brought up. If nobody had ever talked about the idea of ghosts....I mean nobody on Earth ever created the concept of a "ghost".....would we still see them? And what would we think they were?

      That's a real question.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Why do you think these things are true? Let's assume that they are true. Then there is a reason that they are true. A cause.

        If there is a cat in the middle of a room..everyone sees it. How is a ghost different?

        Why does it matter how old you are? Assuming your eyes worked well, what would be the difference? If a cat were sitting in the middle of the floor, everyone would see it, regardless of age.

        I'm not trying to be difficult, really. But these are things I've never heard before.

        Here's a thought I had..

        If the idea of ghosts had never been brought up. If nobody had ever talked about the idea of ghosts....I mean nobody on Earth ever created the concept of a "ghost".....would we still see them? And what would we think they were?

        That's a real question.
        But what started the ghost concept in the first place?
        And when?
        And, now we also have "shadow people".

        I don't believe or not believe in ghosts because I've never had
        an experience with one. (Although I did have a woman take
        a picture of the clear night sky, then call her orbs, and take
        another picture. The before picture was normal and the
        after picture had orbs.)

        My theory about ghosts is that if they do exist, then some
        people can see/hear them because those people can see/hear
        more frequencies than other people. Like dogs, or other
        animals, can see or hear better than humans.

        Dan
        Signature

        "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Why do you think these things are true? Let's assume that they are true. Then there is a reason that they are true. A cause.

        If there is a cat in the middle of a room..everyone sees it. How is a ghost different?

        Why does it matter how old you are? Assuming your eyes worked well, what would be the difference? If a cat were sitting in the middle of the floor, everyone would see it, regardless of age.

        I'm not trying to be difficult, really. But these are things I've never heard before.

        Here's a thought I had..

        If the idea of ghosts had never been brought up. If nobody had ever talked about the idea of ghosts....I mean nobody on Earth ever created the concept of a "ghost".....would we still see them? And what would we think they were?

        That's a real question.
        I have to point out that the perception of ghosts is very different here compared to the West. Here it is almost universally accepted that they exist as a phenomena, the only difference is that not all believe that they are spirits of dead people. Almost everybody knows relatives or friends who have seen a ghost. People do not get as excited as in the West when ghost sightings are mentioned. I have heard lots of stories from relatives and friends that are as every bit as interesting as those reported in the Western press.

        For example, the ghost of my maternal grandfather had been seen by several relatives as well as people who have never met him before while he was alive. The story I told about the haunting in the Education Department had never been reported to the press. One of our family friends who worked in that office have also seen ghosts at the renal dialysis unit of a private hospital. She and a few other patients saw nurses in uniforms reminiscent of the WWII period from time to time. The ghosts would go round as if checking on patients and then suddenly disappear. This happened in broad daylight and they looked very solid. Not everyone in the unit could see them. One of my cousins see a female ghost in his apartment from time to time yet his wife and son never saw it. I really see no reason to disbelieve them as they are very serious people.

        It is generally believed here that only some people can see ghosts and quite often, they see them all the time like my cousin. The age of 30 is not a real limit. It is just that if you have the ability to see a ghost, you are likely to have seen one before 30.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

          I have to point out that the perception of ghosts is very different here compared to the West. Here it is almost universally accepted that they exist as a phenomena, the only difference is that not all believe that they are spirits of dead people. Almost everybody knows relatives or friends who have seen a ghost. People do not get as excited as in the West when ghost sightings are mentioned. I have heard lots of stories from relatives and friends that are as every bit as interesting as those reported in the Western press.
          Derek; First of all, thank you for indulging me. What I get out of this is that it matters quite a lot what your culture is.

          You and your countrymen see ghosts. Russians think of psychic powers as real. To many, telekinesis is a real thing.

          Where I went to church, everyone knew someone who had seen a Demon. And to offer a different explanation was considered an insult, and grounds for ex communication. (It was called "Disfellowshipping". It was actually a goal of mine for a year or so)

          Some people see Angels.

          And some of us, never see anything like that, at all.

          You've been very kind to take my questions seriously.

          Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

          Mild derision isn't tolerated in the Mind Warriors forum, but it is here. So I have to say, you're nuts.

          Your avatar pic ain't bad though.
          Dear Horny Devil (If that is your real name)

          To be fair, I don't think it's any more "Nuts" that anyone else's beliefs.

          An aunt of mine told my mother that she was now a White Witch. She was banned from the Church (that my whole family used to go to). My mother stopped speaking to her, by order of the church. Her own sister, that she loved.

          What's more "Nuts"? The fact that my aunt now thinks she's a witch (Not an herbalist type of witch...a spell casting witch)...or the fact that my Mom, shunned her because of it?

          I agree about her Avatar.
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          • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            To many, telekinesis is a real thing.
            Many people are nuts.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Some people see Angels.
            Some people are nuts.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            To be fair, I don't think it's any more "Nuts" that anyone else's beliefs.
            Being fair doesn't make them less nuttier.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            .
            What's more "Nuts"? The fact that my aunt now thinks she's a witch (Not an herbalist type of witch...a spell casting witch)...or the fact that my Mom, shunned her because of it?
            The fact your aunt thinks she's a witch.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I agree about her Avatar.
            There's nothing nutty about that. Fruity maybe, but certainly not nutty.


            Claude, on a serious note, I've travelled extensively. Also wrote numerous books connected with the "bizarre", met many of the so called experts in the ghost/spiritual field, and visited more "most haunted" places than I'd care to remember. Guess what? . . . no apparitions or ghosts, no demons, no witches, no nothing. They don't exist.

            Before anyone jumps on the bandwagon with the old nutmeg that "you're not susceptible to them", I'll just say that many dozens of sceptics have accompanied me over the course of these visits, and not a single one has seen anything either.

            If anything, several have been shown up for the charlatans they are. I've exposed one or two myself, and not so long ago, Derek Acorah - a renowned psychic medium who has featured on television in numerous programmes including his own TV show - was "outed" in the national press as a complete fraud.

            There may be much out there that we don't fully understand or know about, but ghosts and spectres we do. There's never been a single comprehensive piece of scientific proof to support it, or a shred of indisputable documented evidence that can be taken as hard fact. In this enlightened age of technological wizardry, why is that?

            Others can believe what they want, I'm a realist, and this coupled with the scientific aspect means I find it extremely sad that many people have to subject their brain and life in general to such hogwash.
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

              met many of the so called experts in the ghost/spiritual field, and visited more "most haunted" places than I'd care to remember. Guess what? . . . no apparitions or ghosts, no demons, no witches, no nothing. They don't exist.
              I have a friend who is a ghost hunter.

              No joke.

              Very talented, smart guy, astute businessman. ... and ghost hunter.

              When he first told me. I just laughed. I thought he was joking.
              I hurt his feelings. My laugh was explosively derisive.

              Its a taboo subject between us now.
              Signature

              Selling Ain't for Sissies
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              • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
                Banned
                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                I have a friend who is a ghost hunter.

                No joke.

                Very talented, smart guy, astute businessman. ... and ghost hunter.

                When he first told me. I just laughed. I thought he was joking.
                I hurt his feelings. My laugh was explosively derisive.

                Its a taboo subject between us now.
                I guess if you have to have a hobby it might as well be an interesting one. But at least with metal detecting, gold-panning, fossils, etc, . . you get to find something now and then.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                I have a friend who is a ghost hunter.

                No joke.

                Very talented, smart guy, astute businessman. ... and ghost hunter.

                When he first told me. I just laughed. I thought he was joking.
                I hurt his feelings. My laugh was explosively derisive.

                Its a taboo subject between us now.
                Ken;
                I sympathize completely. I have just one friend that I can just tell everything to.
                The vast majority of my friends are strong Republicans, I tend to lean left.

                Most of my friends are strong believers in a religion. I'm a complete non-believer.

                So I have to watch my conversations. When I let it slip at a family reunion that I was an atheist, It caused a major rift. I'm no longer invited because of it. Neither my Mom's or my wife's family will talk to me because of it. Two deeply religious families.

                I have a friend that is a firm believer that he can influence the gaming tables in Las Vegas. It's costs him tens of thousands of dollars a year to indulge that belief. And he really wants me to share his...um...ability.

                When he brings it up, I have to change the subject, because I still want him as a friend.

                I made this mistake at a marketing event. A young lady walked up to me (she knew me from one of my books) and told me that she was a psychic pet detective. I reflexively said "Seriously?". and I know it didn't sound good the way I said it. She walked away, crushed.

                I felt terrible.

                By the way, so I sound less like a pompous ass....

                Until I was about twenty, I was going to be a masked crime fighter. I'm serious. I wanted to be like Captain America. It's the reason I started martial arts training. I applied to be a policeman, for this reason. I studied logic, mentalism, hypnosis, chemistry, and attempted to construct several crime fighting gadgets. It was a full blown fantasy I had going.

                Of course, and sane person would look at that and laugh. And now I do too. But then? I was Batman. The silly things we think.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

              Claude, on a serious note, I've travelled extensively. Also wrote numerous books connected with the "bizarre", met many of the so called experts in the ghost/spiritual field, and visited more "most haunted" places than I'd care to remember. Guess what? . . . no apparitions or ghosts, no demons, no witches, no nothing. They don't exist.

              Before anyone jumps on the bandwagon with the old nutmeg that "you're not susceptible to them", I'll just say that many dozens of skeptics have accompanied me over the course of these visits, and not a single one has seen anything either.

              If anything, several have been shown up for the charlatans they are. I've exposed one or two myself, and not so long ago, Derek Acorah - a renowned psychic medium who has featured on television in numerous programmes including his own TV show - was "outed" in the national press as a complete fraud.

              There may be much out there that we don't fully understand or know about, but ghosts and specters we do. There's never been a single comprehensive piece of scientific proof to support it, or a shred of indisputable documented evidence that can be taken as hard fact. In this enlightened age of technological wizardry, why is that?

              Others can believe what they want, I'm a realist, and this coupled with the scientific aspect means I find it extremely sad that many people have to subject their brain and life in general to such hogwash.
              Your Horniness; I know.... that you know...that I agree with everything you said. I could have typed most of it myself, and it would be an accurate portrayal of the way I think.

              On the other hand, in my older age, I don't think believers in such things are nuts. Wrong? Yes. But it's an interesting study.

              For example, I've read a few different sets of "Rules" for ghosts here, and they are sometimes similar, sometimes not. But I wonder where they came from. Who came up with these rules? And I've read several books on the subject with completely different "Rules". Very seldom is there a reason for each "rule" to exist. But my experience is different from the writer.

              My thread was a real attempt to understand better how people believe these things. And how they answer questions about ghosts.

              I'm not thinking I can change their minds, and (so far) I've seen no reason to change mine.

              But the discussion is interesting to me, if I can separate myself from the discussion. (If you know what I mean.)

              And I do disagree with one point.

              My aunt believing she is a real White Witch (with powers and everything), may be a silly belief...it's harmless. My Mom abandoning her because of it is what I think of as "Vicious ignorance". And I think that's far worse.

              Anyway, I keep wondering what I would be absolutely sure was real (in the supernatural), if my life had taken a slightly different road.

              If you've written any books, PM me with the titles. I'd love to read them
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Derek; First of all, thank you for indulging me. What I get out of this is that it matters quite a lot what your culture is.

            You and your countrymen see ghosts. Russians think of psychic powers as real. To many, telekinesis is a real thing.

            Where I went to church, everyone knew someone who had seen a Demon. And to offer a different explanation was considered an insult, and grounds for ex communication. (It was called "Disfellowshipping". It was actually a goal of mine for a year or so)

            Some people see Angels.

            And some of us, never see anything like that, at all.

            You've been very kind to take my questions seriously.



            Dear Horny Devil (If that is your real name)

            To be fair, I don't think it's any more "Nuts" that anyone else's beliefs.

            An aunt of mine told my mother that she was now a White Witch. She was banned from the Church (that my whole family used to go to). My mother stopped speaking to her, by order of the church. Her own sister, that she loved.

            What's more "Nuts"? The fact that my aunt now thinks she's a witch (Not an herbalist type of witch...a spell casting witch)...or the fact that my Mom, shunned her because of it?

            I agree about her Avatar.
            Claude my friend,

            I just want to say that it sounds to me like you weren't a member of a church, but, but, well what you describe sounds like a cult!

            If it makes you feel better, I would have wanted to become Disfellowshipped too!! Seriously!

            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Claude my friend,

              I just want to say that it sounds to me like you weren't a member of a church, but, but, well what you describe sounds like a cult!

              If it makes you feel better, I would have wanted to become Disfellowshipped too!! Seriously!

              Terra
              Terra: It wasn't any stranger than most churches I've been in. Whatever you are used to, becomes normal. In cults, there is a charismatic leader that is really the one being worshiped. This wasn't the case. To most people, a cult is any church that believes differently than they do.


              Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

              If I suddenly found I had such powers, I would
              quietly use them to help or heal. And, I'd likely
              do the same as your idea, which I like:
              Dan
              Dan; I have no explanation for your experience. I just know that there is one. And asking "How" this occurred is the beginning of science.

              And I gave this a little thought after I posted it.

              Let's say I suddenly had the strength of 1,000 men. I could bend steel girders in my bare hands. I would keep it to myself. Help others with it when I could. But I wouldn't tell anyone (not even my wife). Why? Because it wouldn't help anyone. And it would scare most people. I read a great book on this very story Gladiator by Phillip Wyle.

              I meant I would tell everyone if the discovery were something outside myself, that applied everywhere. For example, discovering that, with meditation...we could all levitate/read minds/heal psychically.....

              If any of these things were really true, it would change the world. Like discovering fire, the wheel, penicillin. They would be true everywhere, for everyone. It wouldn't matter what your point of view is, or where you were raised, or where you went to church.

              Belief is only required when something isn't real.
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Terra: It wasn't any stranger than most churches I've been in. Whatever you are used to, becomes normal. In cults, there is a charismatic leader that is really the one being worshiped. This wasn't the case. To most people, a cult is any church that believes differently than they do.
                Ouch!

                I guess I'm not most people. I respect many churches whose belief structures are different than my own. To me, a cult is when you don't have the freedom to believe as your heart guides you, but must follow a rigid set of rules and regulations and rituals or be publicly humiliated as an outcast and shunned by every member of that said "church".

                I just don't see how one can develop a deep faith when they are dictated to what they can and cannot believe, cannot believe what their heart leads them to believe.

                I think that any person or group of peoples who claim they know it "all" are only fooling themselves.

                I don't know how else to explain it. I hope you get it.

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  Ouch!

                  I guess I'm not most people. I respect many churches whose belief structures are different than my own. To me, a cult is when you don't have the freedom to believe as your heart guides you, but must follow a rigid set of rules and regulations and rituals or be publicly humiliated as an outcast and shunned by every member of that said "church".

                  I just don't see how one can develop a deep faith when they are dictated to what they can and cannot believe, cannot believe what their heart leads them to believe.

                  I think that any person or group of peoples who claim they know it "all" are only fooling themselves.

                  I don't know how else to explain it. I hope you get it.

                  Terra
                  Terra; I didn't mean to give you an "Ouch".

                  I get it. Your experience is just different than mine. No intended.
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  Ouch!

                  I guess I'm not most people. I respect many churches whose belief structures are different than my own. To me, a cult is when you don't have the freedom to believe as your heart guides you, but must follow a rigid set of rules and regulations and rituals or be publicly humiliated as an outcast and shunned by every member of that said "church".

                  I just don't see how one can develop a deep faith when they are dictated to what they can and cannot believe, cannot believe what their heart leads them to believe.

                  I think that any person or group of peoples who claim they know it "all" are only fooling themselves.

                  I don't know how else to explain it. I hope you get it.

                  Terra
                  Well, that's every group except us Wolverines, though, right. Better make that clear.

                  It astounds me how completely "sure" people are that there is no way some things can happen or exist if they don't believe in them. Some people seem to be sometimes deeply entranched in dogma over general metaphysics being complete crap, while at the same time being agnostic or very zealous about religious metaphysics or even about the quantum mechanics of surviving death.

                  To me it doesn't make sense to believe that humans can have an afterlife - but then completely denounce the idea any kind of "extra-dimensional" being could exist. I mean - once you admit that we "go somewhere" after death, then the only thing there is to argue is whether there is a way for that spirit to re-enter our dimension or not, and in what form it would be.
                  Signature

                  Sal
                  When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                  Beyond the Path

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                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    To me it doesn't make sense to believe that humans can have an afterlife - but then completely denounce the idea any kind of "extra-dimensional" being could exist. I mean - once you admit that we "go somewhere" after death, then the only thing there is to argue is whether there is a way for that spirit to re-enter our dimension or not, and in what form it would be.
                    Sal; That's a correlation that I've never thought of. Interesting. I'll have to think about that.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    Well, that's every group except us Wolverines, though, right. Better make that clear.

                    It astounds me how completely "sure" people are that there is no way some things can happen or exist if they don't believe in them. Some people seem to be sometimes deeply entranched in dogma over general metaphysics being complete crap, while at the same time being agnostic or very zealous about religious metaphysics or even about the quantum mechanics of surviving death.

                    To me it doesn't make sense to believe that humans can have an afterlife - but then completely denounce the idea any kind of "extra-dimensional" being could exist. I mean - once you admit that we "go somewhere" after death, then the only thing there is to argue is whether there is a way for that spirit to re-enter our dimension or not, and in what form it would be.
                    Exactly! That doesn't make sense at all to me either.

                    Wolverines, united!

                    Terra
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                  • Profile picture of the author IMBlest
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    To me it doesn't make sense to believe that humans can have an afterlife - but then completely denounce the idea any kind of "extra-dimensional" being could exist. I mean - once you admit that we "go somewhere" after death, then the only thing there is to argue is whether there is a way for that spirit to re-enter our dimension or not, and in what form it would be.
                    It's interesting that you should say that.

                    A few years ago, I had watched an episode on the show, Unsolved Mysteries, about a true story about a Filipino nurse or respiratory therapist who was killed in her apartment in Chicago.

                    The killer placed her dead body underneath a mattress and set it on fire.

                    Weeks or months after her death, the wife of a Filipino doctor in the same hospital where the dead lady used to work started having episodes of possession by the dead lady. The wife of the Filipino doctor started speaking in the dead lady's voice, urging him to go to the police and to let the police know that her killer was a male orderly who also worked in the same hospital.

                    The dead lady, speaking through the wife of the Filipino doctor, explained that the male orderly came to her apartment to fix her TV set and that he returned soon afterwards, killed her and stole her jewelries.

                    The dead lady kept coming every night to possess the wife of the Filipino doctor urging him to go to the police. The Filipino doctor hesitated to go to the police because he was afraid the police will not believe his story.

                    The dead lady, speaking through the wife of the Filipino doctor, told the doctor that her proof is that the male orderly had given her jewelries to his girlfriend. She asked the Filipino doctor to tell the police to go to the house of the girlfriend of the male orderly and they will find her jewelries.

                    The doctor and his wife went to the police. The police found the jewelries of the dead lady in the possession of the girlfriend of the male orderly. The male orderly confessed.

                    Events happened exactly as the dead lady's ghost had said through the wife of the Filipino doctor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    I'm starting to think Claude is a ghost and is trying to learn how to break out of the afterworld so he can come here and go all "nom nom nom" on our very souls.




    Just me?



    Typical.
    Signature

    If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      I'm starting to think Claude is a ghost and is trying to learn how to break out of the afterworld so he can come here and go all "nom nom nom" on our very souls.




      Just me?



      Typical.

      Nom Nom Nom...Man! That's good "Riffle Soul".
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Nom Nom Nom...Man! That's good "Riffle Soul".

        May I suggest trying it with hot sauce? Maybe a nice...........Ghost Pepper sauce?


        <rimshot>
        Signature

        If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Nom Nom Nom...Man! That's good "Riffle Soul".
        Or, perhaps with some cauliflower soup?
        Signature

        "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Or, perhaps with some cauliflower soup?
          Stop stalking me, biz!


          Signature

          If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

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          • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
            How come we are talking about Ghosts in a Marketing Forum???

            You Guys are all very strange, lol, stranger than me actually and Lindy is fairly strange - I'm Psychic and also a White Witch. For real!

            So my answers are real too. We are all spirits, jus here in human form to learn, and it takes many many lives to learn the lesson we must learn.

            Ghosts are jus spirits who havn't crossed over, some do not understand they are even dead, others are too attached to their past existence so havn't crossed over. Most can be convinced to go into the light and cross over, but not all. Some can and will react with us, but again not all.

            There are many dimensions to each of our existences, but we mainly dwell on jus one - our present life. It is our Soul that is our Spirit. Our Soul remembers every lifetime it has lived, some of you may have read about people being hypnotised and taken back into past lives, and being able to speak a completely different language or tell about a completely different life, sometimes centuries ago. Some of our passions come from past lives, some of our problems too, we carry things from life to life.

            Sooo....lol. But all true!

            Lindy
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            • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
              Banned
              Originally Posted by LindyUK View Post

              How come we are talking about Ghosts in a Marketing Forum???

              You Guys are all very strange, lol, stranger than me actually and Lindy is fairly strange - I'm Psychic and also a White Witch. For real!

              So my answers are real too. We are all spirits, jus here in human form to learn, and it takes many many lives to learn the lesson we must learn.

              Ghosts are jus spirits who havn't crossed over, some do not understand they are even dead, others are too attached to their past existence so havn't crossed over. Most can be convinced to go into the light and cross over, but not all. Some can and will react with us, but again not all.

              There are many dimensions to each of our existences, but we mainly dwell on jus one - our present life. It is our Soul that is our Spirit. Our Soul remembers every lifetime it has lived, some of you may have read about people being hypnotised and taken back into past lives, and being able to speak a completely different language or tell about a completely different life, sometimes centuries ago. Some of our passions come from past lives, some of our problems too, we carry things from life to life.

              Sooo....lol. But all true!

              Lindy

              Mild derision isn't tolerated in the Mind Warriors forum, but it is here. So I have to say, you're nuts.

              Your avatar pic ain't bad though.
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              • Profile picture of the author LindyUK
                Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

                Mild derision isn't tolerated in the Mind Warriors forum, but it is here. So I have to say, you're nuts.

                Your avatar pic ain't bad though.
                To Horney Devil:

                Horney Devil quiet ye be
                let Lindy put a spell on thee.

                Say my name again in vain
                an ye fortunes thou will wane.

                Only saving grace for thee
                ye liked my pic an said it free.

                So in return my spell for thee
                wealth an health an blessed be.

                lol.
                Lindy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Or, perhaps with some cauliflower soup?
          I can't believe I'm going to say this. Cauliflower soup sounds pretty good.

          And...did I miss some sort of joke here? Does Cauliflower soup" mean something else?

          Remember, I just learned what "Twerking" meant.
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            I can't believe I'm going to say this. Cauliflower soup sounds pretty good.

            And...did I miss some sort of joke here? Does Cauliflower soup" mean something else?

            Remember, I just learned what "Twerking" meant.
            Alexa Smith frequently references to Cauliflower soup recipes.
            I think it may be one of her top secret niches. Or, maybe she's just
            a foodie.

            Actually, it does sound good. The restaurant owner next to me
            makes really, really good soup. I'll have some of that while
            Richard Van drinks beer. Cold beer. I'm sure he'll get used to
            the taste.

            -------------------

            LindyUK,

            Welcome to the Off Topic Subforum - as long as you're really a White Witch. LOL

            Dan
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

              Actually, it does sound good. The restaurant owner next to me
              makes really, really good soup. I'll have some of that while
              Richard Van drinks beer. Cold beer. I'm sure he'll get used to
              the taste.
              It's ok, I've been to Australia and tasted cold beer. I ask for it in a brandy glass so I can warm it up though.

              I've not had cauliflower soup but Broccoli and Stilton is absolutely superb, though I don't think with all the cheese it's very good for you.

              Add a bit of warm beer mind you and we have a meal to vastly improve health.
              Signature

              Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Cauliflower cheese soup is outrageous good. I make it with those big soft pretzels and have a pretzel fondue with it. I am not sure if it's any good once you get to the higher dimensions, though. It might not be. Maybe that's what all the "ghosts" of people past are trying to get back to the third dimension for.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Cauliflower cheese soup is outrageous good. I make it with those big soft pretzels and have a pretzel fondue with it. I am not sure if it's any good once you get to the higher dimensions, though. It might not be. Maybe that's what all the "ghosts" of people past are trying to get back to the third dimension for.
      Sal; You may like this.

      Last night, I was watching a show on String Theory on the Science Channel.

      They were talking about extra dimensions at the very sub atomic level.
      This is all speculation, and some of the math allows for it.

      But...there was one woman physicist, who said that at the very smallest sub atomic levels....primary particles only have one dimension.

      I got it, and laughed out loud, because I had never thought of that.

      These are particles that are so small, that ...if an atom were the size of our solar system, the particle would be the size of an atom. Parts of strings.

      She also said that string theory was not even a theory, but a pet speculation by a small group of physicists.

      I liked her. She had a flat stomach.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Sal; You may like this.

        Last night, I was watching a show on String Theory on the Science Channel.

        They were talking about extra dimensions at the very sub atomic level.
        This is all speculation, and some of the math allows for it.

        But...there was one woman physicist, who said that at the very smallest sub atomic levels....primary particles only have one dimension.

        I got it, and laughed out loud, because I had never thought of that.

        These are particles that are so small, that ...if an atom were the size of our solar system, the particle would be the size of an atom. Parts of strings.

        She also said that string theory was not even a theory, but a pet speculation by a small group of physicists.

        I liked her. She had a flat stomach.
        I LOVE parts of the string theory. If I ever write an ebook covering this type of subject, I'll know to do some research and see if having a flat stomach is in any way conducive to studying the theories? Hmmmm. Not.

        In quantum mechanics, what interests me is the idea that particles only exist when you are observing them. If you want to look at this real directly with the subject at hand -- that means the existence of ghosts would be predicated on the fact that you HAVE to see them.

        So what happens when a person is raised to believe that if they "see" something unexplainable, they are batshyte crazy? You're not going to see them - they don't exist. The opposite would be just as true.

        HD - there's more Wiccans ("witches") around than you might realize. One of my best friends from the gorge area is a pagan priestess. Such religions are basically just a return to the "mother" instead of the "father" figure in religion -- and a deep reverence for and practice of working with natural energy. Nothing as hocus pocus as some people see it as being. People sometimes have this unwarranted illusion that witches are the same thing as satanists, but that isn't even starting to be right. A true wiccan believes very strongly in energy karma and will never harm anything or anyone intentionally. To me that kind of adhesion to the principle of "be kind, and cause no harm" is more admirable than not.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author Mkcoy
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    There are questions I ask people about ghosts.
    How is a ghost confined to a home? Is the wooden wall keeping it inside?
    You know when you enter a room where people have been arguing in it and you can "sense" the atmosphere? Well that's the energies that people release. These energies can remain even long after people have died. Some people die and don't want to let go of their life. So they kind of remain in this great gulf between this life and the next.

    If you add an addition onto your home, will it be haunted too?
    No. "Additions" or "furniture" is not haunted. But evil energies CAN indeed "attach" their selves to things. Thats why you're meant to smash the glass you use after doing a Ouija board.

    If you move your home, will the ghost come too, or stay where it is?
    It depends on the removal company. You will need to find one that does "ghost transportation".

    What about all the other people over the last many thousands of years that died where your home sits? Where are they?
    The last time I checked, they are still under there. But I aint tellin' the police if you aint tellin.

    Are there Cro-Magnon Ghosts? Neanderthal ghosts?
    Sure! And midget ghosts! And even modern ghosts. I once saw Micheal Jackson's ghost but it was just an impersonator with a lot of makeup on.

    If ghosts speak, how can our ears hear them? Our ears hear vibrations in the air.
    Well, they make the noise, then you hear it. What else is there to explain?

    Are the ghosts in color? Black and white?
    Yes, some are in 3D too.

    Why do ghosts wear clothes? Did the clothing die with them?
    Yes. Like I said in question 1. The energies of that person remains long after they are dead. Whatever they were wearing at the time is how they will be remembered.

    Why don't ghosts ever speak languages other than ours?
    They do. What makes you think they dont? lol

    If ghosts talk, why would their mouths move? They have no larynx.
    They do. They have everything you have, but they are not "conscious" of it.

    If a ghost can walk through walls, how can their feet get traction on the floor?
    The energy that used to be, used to walk across the floor. Therefore, it makes sense that the energy that is now, will still walk across the floor. As for going through walls, well they should have invested in some proper cladding instead of that cheap stuff.

    If ghosts walk through walls, why can't they walk over to the next door neighbor's?
    Their energy is not in that house. The energies are confined to the area where the original energy was confined to.

    Why do ghosts follow the rotation of the Earth and follow the Earth traveling through space? Why doesn't gravity affect them? Or why does gravity affect them?
    Gravity has no effect on something that is not physical. Ghosts are spiritual, there is no gravity in the spiritual world. They are in the world, on the world. Attached to the world. We don't float off and meet up with them again once weve completed a complete solar circle.

    Can ghosts remember? How do memories form in a non corporeal form?
    No, ghosts have no conscience. I told you already! They are not real, thinking, conscience walking people you moron!! lol They are just remaining energies from the last energy that was there.

    Why don't ghosts ever bother me?

    Probably because they don't like you.

    Why don't ghosts appear to groups of people. Why don't they ever appear to a group of scientists in a lab?
    You can't just conjure up a ghost! They appear at random and can never keep their appointments!

    Why do the words you say (to exorcize a ghost or spirit), affect them..but not us?
    Man you are really naive aren't you? In this sense, when they say "ghost" they mean spirit. And by spirit they mean unclean spirit. A demon if you will. Some demons have the power of exorcism. (To take over the hosts body). Some can come out with prayer easily enough and demanding in the name of the Son. Some require the much prayer and fasting of many a righteous man.

    When homes are torn down...do the ghosts stay?
    In most cases no because when you remove the house, you remove the energies that are attached to that house. But in some cases, even if you completely and totally flatten and level the ground. The energies will still remain. This is why some home are haunted for no apparant reason only for the owner to find out that hundreds of years ago their house used to be a grave yard or something..

    Why do ghosts only appear in the dark, and not in an office building with all the lights on?
    Apparently fluorescent lighting plays havoc with their complexion.

    On Ghost Hunters...why don't they turn on the light? Wouldn't it be easier to see the ghosts?
    Ghosts are scared of light. Because ghosts are NOT real people!!!!! In most cases, ghosts are tricks played by demons on people. And they cannot stand light of any kind. But ghosts DO NOT have a collective conscience! They cannot think, feel or do anything. They are dead. Sleeping. No more. Kaput! It is only their "energy" that remains.

    Why aren't ghosts willing to tell us where they buried the treasure?
    Read my answer to the last question above...
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Claude,

    The woman I wrote about who took pictures of "orbs"
    claimed to have psychic communication abilities with
    animals. With both her abilities to take pictures of orbs
    and communicate with animals, she took care in how she
    told me about those abilities. She is a veterinary tech
    and specializes in horse dentistry (teeth cleaning in
    particular).

    She was about 45 at the time, so she knew to be more careful
    with such subjects than the young lady at the marketing event?

    She knew me awhile before she talked about it. She also brought
    it up in such a way that it would be okay if I thought she was nuts.
    I think if one claims to have those abilities, or is a paranormal
    investigator, they should be careful and expect ridicule as part of the
    daily drill.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Claude,

      The woman I wrote about who took pictures of "orbs"
      claimed to have psychic communication abilities with
      animals. With both her abilities to take pictures of orbs
      and communicate with animals, she took care in how she
      told me about those abilities. She is a veterinary tech
      and specializes in horse dentistry (teeth cleaning in
      particular).

      She was about 45 at the time, so she knew to be more careful
      with such subjects than the young lady at the marketing event?

      She knew me awhile before she talked about it. She also brought
      it up in such a way that it would be okay if I thought she was nuts.
      I think if one claims to have those abilities, or is a paranormal
      investigator, they should be careful and expect ridicule as part of the
      daily drill.

      Dan
      Where I lived in the mountains of Colorado there were many extremely interesting cemeteries. I have seen pictures people took in these places that orbs showed up in the film without them intentionally being sought out. Pretty weird.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Where I lived in the mountains of Colorado there were many extremely interesting cemeteries. I have seen pictures people took in these places that orbs showed up in the film without them intentionally being sought out. Pretty weird.
        My experience was weird. There has to be a scientific explanation, I think.
        My friend called the orbs and there is a before and after
        picture. Clear night in downtown Evergreen no less.

        She was also very good with my dog who had a tumor in his nose at the time.

        Dan
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          My experience was weird. There has to be a scientific explanation, I think.
          May friend called the orbs and there is a before and after
          picture. Clear night in downtown Evergreen no less.

          She was also very good with my dog who had a tumor in his nose at the time.

          Dan
          Dan; All I can tell you is that there is a completely real explanation for your experience. One that would hold up under the most severe scrutiny. All reality holds up under all scrutiny..that's one way we find out if it's reality.

          Were you actually there? Or were you just looking at two photographs?

          And Dan; I don't know if this applies here...but some people with beliefs in spiritual things...hide it, not because of ridicule (although that's a big reason), but because they know...deep down, that it's a fantasy.

          Think; If you suddenly had a revelation that you could read minds/help people/heal with a touch/levitate/see the future/talk to the dead...and you knew, in your core..that it was real...what would you do? Have a TV show? Go on Letterman? start a 900 psychic service?

          Me? I would contact scientists, skeptics, anyone that would listen to prove that this was real, and bring in a new age of knowledge. Everything real can be demonstrated...tested. And the more controlled the experiment, the better. The smarter the tester...the better. The tighter the scrutiny...the better.

          After all, this is real. And if any of this is real, it changes everything. And all experiment would prove that it's real. Nobody would be embarrassed. Nobody would whisper about it.

          My wife actually said this to me after she heard a conversation I was having with a friend.

          "I know there aren't ghosts..but I believe there are." I completely got it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Were you actually there? Or were you just looking at two photographs?
            One photograph, seen through rose coloured glasses.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

              One photograph, seen through rose coloured glasses.
              Your Hornyness: Clever.

              But I think the world is more interesting and fascinating through rose colored glasses. I'm willing to see in monochrome, if I can see clearer in the dark.

              And , the problem I have, is that I can't tell if my own glasses are clear. I think they are.....I hope they are. The problem is, if you're inside the bottle...you can't read the label.

              For example, can I throw a perfect punch? I don't know. I can tell when other punches are all wrong...I can spot mistakes...I can even teach someone how to punch. But there are people out there that can punch better than I ever could. We all have our limits.
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Dan; All I can tell you is that there is a completely real explanation for your experience. One that would hold up under the most severe scrutiny. All reality holds up under all scrutiny..that's one way we find out if it's reality.

            Were you actually there? Or were you just looking at two photographs?

            And Dan; I don't know if this applies here...but some people with beliefs in spiritual things...hide it, not because of ridicule (although that's a big reason), but because they know...deep down, that it's a fantasy.

            Think; If you suddenly had a revelation that you could read minds/help people/heal with a touch/levitate/see the future/talk to the dead...and you knew, in your core..that it was real...what would you do? Have a TV show? Go on Letterman? start a 900 psychic service?

            Me? I would contact scientists, skeptics, anyone that would listen to prove that this was real, and bring in a new age of knowledge. Everything real can be demonstrated...tested. And the more controlled the experiment, the better. The smarter the tester...the better. The tighter the scrutiny...the better.

            After all, this is real. And if any of this is real, it changes everything. And all experiment would prove that it's real. Nobody would be embarrassed. Nobody would whisper about it.

            My wife actually said this to me after she heard a conversation I was having with a friend.

            "I know there aren't ghosts..but I believe there are." I completely got it.
            I was actually there when she snapped both the
            before and after photographs. It was a common
            pocket digital camera - probably a Canon.

            It was a clear and dry night. (I've heard some
            explain that photo orbs are from water or rain
            drops. Kind of a prism effect.)

            We were standing in front of a 150 year old building
            that is rumored to be haunted. It's a bar now.
            (I don't drink. Or wear glasses.) People have
            claimed to see an old man ghost. (The staff
            jokingly calls him Pierre.) Separately, others
            have claimed to see a little girl ghost.

            The woman who called the orbs and took the photos
            seems to me to believe she has these abilities and
            is pretty low key about her gifts. She is Italian
            and I bring this up because she did, and
            I've heard there is a long history - 13,000 years -
            of Italian witches.

            As far as I know, she just uses her gifts to work
            with animals.

            -----------------

            If I suddenly found I had such powers, I would
            quietly use them to help or heal. And, I'd likely
            do the same as your idea, which I like:

            " Me? I would contact scientists, skeptics, anyone that would listen to prove that this was real, and bring in a new age of knowledge. Everything real can be demonstrated...tested. And the more controlled the experiment, the better. The smarter the tester...the better. The tighter the scrutiny...the better. "

            Dan

            PS - Not keen on churches that would split a family as per your example.
            Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      HD - there's more Wiccans ("witches") around than you might realize. One of my best friends from the gorge area is a pagan priestess. Such religions are basically just a return to the "mother" instead of the "father" figure in religion -- and a deep reverence for and practice of working with natural energy.

      A true wiccan believes very strongly in energy karma and will never harm anything or anyone intentionally. To me that kind of adhesion to the principle of "be kind, and cause no harm" is more admirable than not.
      Sal,

      I know there are many Wiccans about. I know of more than a dozen within 2 miles of where I live, and when I was transient for a while after separating from my wife, I even lodged in the home of one. She was a lovely person, even if a little over enthusiastic of her "calling".

      Believing in natural energy and mother earth I have empathy with, and understand for the main part. Ghosts, spectres, phantoms, demons, etc = total poppycock!

      My ex-wife terrorised our young children with tales of the undead under their beds, deceased grandpa peering over the end of the bed, and much worse that I can't go into here. You get the picture. I think because she was influenced by a mad, domineering mother, who was a devout spiritualist and believed the dead manifest frequently (i.e. every day), it affected the poor girl very deeply.

      My ex-wife's sister ended up being committed for some of her more erratic behaviour (which again, I won't go into here), and the whole family have been "flagged" on the police system to not be taken literally, in view of the many totally outrageous claims and allegations they've made.

      Claude has hit the nail on the head when he says your upbringing is highly influential in determining your basic outlook and handle on life.


      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Your Horniness; I know.... that you know...that I agree with everything you said. I could have typed most of it myself, and it would be an accurate portrayal of the way I think.

      On the other hand, in my older age, I don't think believers in such things are nuts. Wrong? Yes. But it's an interesting study.
      Claude,

      I expect nothing but total agreement with the master, so your kowtowing is acknowledged. Anthing less and you'll be a "hornless" devil when you get to me!

      Seriously though, I don't mean believers in these sort of things are "nuts" in the literal sense of the word. Just not aligned with the real world, and in many instances I've found they have nothing substantial to back up their beliefs other than a penchant for something "different", or - as you mentioned - being conditioned from an early age and viewing it as quite normal . . at least in their eyes.

      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      My aunt believing she is a real White Witch (with powers and everything), may be a silly belief...it's harmless. My Mom abandoning her because of it is what I think of as "Vicious ignorance". And I think that's far worse.
      I think the sad aspect kicks in here. Both the "belief" and the "abandonment" issues. Older people can be very set in their ways, and change doesn't come easy. Whilst many beliefs are harmless, they only remain harmless if reined in somewhat, and not expounded to all and sundry. If so, ridicule is a an ensuing certainty.


      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post


      She knew me awhile before she talked about it. She also brought
      it up in such a way that it would be okay if I thought she was nuts.
      I think if one claims to have those abilities, or is a paranormal
      investigator, they should be careful and expect ridicule as part of the
      daily drill.

      Dan
      Dan,

      Many of that ilk can be self deprecating as they know the consensus of opinion is against their beliefs. Yes, ridicule is inevitable from certain quarters, but I have to say that I'd willingly endure that ridicule if the pay were good enough. So it must be really well paid then, at least for the TV charlatans who expound it, but do they know that . . .

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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Cult or church, beware of the group mentality that can occur
    and choose carefully.

    When I was a kid, a friend went to a church in a mainstream
    denomination. He was very close friends with this one family.

    Church members, for whatever reasons, ganged up on the mother
    and accused her of sexually assaulting church members' kids
    whom she taught to play the piano. My friend and his family
    swore she would never do such a thing and my friend really
    began to question his faith.

    I can only go from my friends side of the story, but if the woman
    did no such things, that would be horrible. Especially if it occurred
    today with the sex offenders list.

    Dan
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Cult or church, beware of the group mentality that can occur
      and choose carefully.

      When I was a kid, a friend went to a church in a mainstream
      denomination. He was very close friends with this one family.

      Church members, for whatever reasons, ganged up on the mother
      and accused her of sexually assaulting church members' kids
      whom she taught to play the piano. My friend and his family
      swore she would never do such a thing and my friend really
      began to question his faith.

      I can only go from my friends side of the story, but if the woman
      did no such things, that would be horrible. Especially if it occurred
      today with the sex offenders list.

      Dan
      Dan; It has nothing to do with the fact that it was a church. We are the same people wherever we are.

      I've seen several cases like this. Ignorant people have a mob mentality, and they can't be reasoned with. I avoid them.

      Of course, when you're a kid, you have no choice.
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      • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Dan; It has nothing to do with the fact that it was a church. We are the same people wherever we are.

        I've seen several cases like this. Ignorant people have a mob mentality, and they can't be reasoned with. I avoid them.

        Of course, when you're a kid, you have no choice.
        Very true about any mob mentality.

        1st through 7th grade, we did not have cliques.

        8th grade, I moved to a different school district
        that had very distinct groups. It was very shocking
        to me. If you were in one, you could not like people
        from certain other groups. Sometimes there were fights.

        Or, if you were friends with someone from one group,
        people would assume you did the same as the members
        of that group. Example: I was friendly with Darryl, who
        was in the "freak" group, so people assumed I also smoked
        pot...

        Sometimes there was racism involved. Other times
        it was somehow decided that, for example, the
        Cowboys and the Jocks were enemies. Some childhood
        friendships were broken because one person became
        a member of x group and the other person belonged to
        y group.

        Ridiculously stupid stuff. It was in a wealthy school district.

        This was true all through high school and I have
        never liked groups.

        Dan
        Signature

        "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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        • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
          Banned
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Very true about any mob mentality.
          1st through 7th grade, we did not have cliques.

          8th grade, I moved to a different school district
          that had very distinct groups. If you were in one,
          you could not like people from certain other groups.
          Sometimes there were fights.

          Or, if you were friends with someone from one group,
          people would assume you did the same as the members
          of that group. Example: I was friendly with Darryl, who
          was in the "freak" group
          , so people assumed I also smoked
          pot...

          This was true all through high school and I have
          never liked groups.

          Dan
          In my school the teachers were the "freak" group. I know what you mean though, Dan.
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

            In my school the teachers were the "freak" group. I know what you mean though, Dan.
            One of my high school classmates ended up marrying the Spanish teacher.
            She was only about 5-7 years older. I don't think there was any hanky panky
            while he was in high school.
            Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Very true about any mob mentality.

          1st through 7th grade, we did not have cliques.

          8th grade, I moved to a different school district
          that had very distinct groups. It was very shocking
          to me. If you were in one, you could not like people
          from certain other groups. Sometimes there were fights.

          Or, if you were friends with someone from one group,
          people would assume you did the same as the members
          of that group. Example: I was friendly with Darryl, who
          was in the "freak" group, so people assumed I also smoked
          pot...

          Sometimes there was racism involved. Other times
          it was somehow decided that, for example, the
          Cowboys and the Jocks were enemies. Some childhood
          friendships were broken because one person became
          a member of x group and the other person belonged to
          y group.

          Ridiculously stupid stuff. It was in a wealthy school district.

          This was true all through high school and I have
          never liked groups.

          Dan
          Dan; In my school, there was no racism, because nobody was anything but midwestern white. The subject just never came up.

          I was in the "Science nerd" group. Pocket protectors, slide rules (remember those?), talking physics all the time. But really a loner. When you don't talk to anyone...cliques become invisible.

          Depending on the teacher you talked to, I was either brilliant, funny, or a complete waste of time.
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          • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
            Banned
            Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

            One of my high school classmates ended up marrying the Spanish teacher.
            She was only about 5-7 years older. I don't think there was any hanky panky while he was in high school.
            Hmm. I wouldn't have minded being a spider in the classroom stationery cupboard.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Depending on the teacher you talked to, I was either brilliant, funny, or a complete waste of time.
            Yep. I agree on that one. There was no uniformity in school, apart from the clothes you wore.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

          Very true about any mob mentality.

          1st through 7th grade, we did not have cliques.

          8th grade, I moved to a different school district
          that had very distinct groups. It was very shocking
          to me. If you were in one, you could not like people
          from certain other groups. Sometimes there were fights.

          Or, if you were friends with someone from one group,
          people would assume you did the same as the members
          of that group. Example: I was friendly with Darryl, who
          was in the "freak" group, so people assumed I also smoked
          pot...

          Sometimes there was racism involved. Other times
          it was somehow decided that, for example, the
          Cowboys and the Jocks were enemies. Some childhood
          friendships were broken because one person became
          a member of x group and the other person belonged to
          y group.

          Ridiculously stupid stuff. It was in a wealthy school district.

          This was true all through high school and I have
          never liked groups.

          Dan
          I grew up in NY. What you described was just life.
          One block was one way, another ... another.

          Don't you dare go down the one that wasn't yours
          unless you wanted trouble.

          school was different, the factions held. Sometimes they
          broke into sub groups.

          I never liked it. When I left ( just me ... most of my family is
          still there ) It took a lot of personal reprogramming to unlearn
          all the wrong, useless, racist baggage from child hood.
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          • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            I grew up in NY. What you described was just life.
            One block was one way another ... another.

            Don't you dare go down the one that wasn't yours
            unless you wanted trouble.

            school was different, the factions held. Sometimes they
            broke into sub groups.

            I never liked it. When I left ( just me ... most of my family is
            still there ) It took a lot of personal reprogramming to unlearn
            all the wrong, useless, racist baggage from child hood.
            You just reminded me of something.

            My Dad moved from Boston to Colorado in
            1953 to get away from that kind of stuff.

            Although he had a buddy from serving in
            the military during WWII who was of a
            different race, it still took him awhile to
            reprogram.

            I guess there's more than one kind of ghost.

            Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    The racism started because we had bussing.
    I was in a large suburb of Denver.

    There was once a big fight, some weekend,
    between the Blacks (as they were called then)
    and the Cowboys. There were only about 15 -20
    Cowboys and then none after that fight.

    I sure do remember slide rules and pocket protectors.
    And then Texas Instruments.

    I still use a coin holder. One of those oval shaped ones
    that you squeeze. People ask where I get them.
    (Local gas station actually.) lol
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author SShip
    I personally don't know if ghosts are real or not as I've never seen one myself even though I know others who have including my children (which completely freaked them out). Either way, I can't judge because I just don't know.

    Ghost in the truck?
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  • Profile picture of the author ConfusedJ
    I had an experience as a young kid which was as real and as vivid as anything I've ever experienced. Seeing as how I've never done any drugs, never taken even a sip of alcohol, never had any sort of psychotic illusions, and have no valid reason to believe it was a hallucination, I've accepted it as a real experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wolster
    Not sure if ghosts are real or not.

    But you can't beat a few good spirits on a Saturday night.
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  • Profile picture of the author ozzie2012
    I can answer all of your questions on this thread, or I can just recommend a stack of books about demonology I can't stop reading them.
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  • Profile picture of the author djtrillian
    I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if anyone has the same thought as I do.

    I have often wondered: If a house is haunted, do the ghosts come out when no one is home? Do they open doors or move things in the house even when no one is there to notice?

    There was a derelict house I used to pass on my way to the train station and I used to wonder if perhaps drawers were opening and closing sometimes, if maybe there was the sound of footsteps, etc. all sorts of poltergeist activity going on but no one lives there to see or hear these things.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by djtrillian View Post

      I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if anyone has the same thought as I do.

      I have often wondered: If a house is haunted, do the ghosts come out when no one is home? Do they open doors or move things in the house even when no one is there to notice?

      There was a derelict house I used to pass on my way to the train station and I used to wonder if perhaps drawers were opening and closing sometimes, if maybe there was the sound of footsteps, etc. all sorts of poltergeist activity going on but no one lives there to see or hear these things.
      That's an interesting question that I've never considered.

      Here's another. If they have fingers to move these objects, do they leave finger impressions? Fingerprints?

      If it's an old library, do they take out the books and read them? Can they read in the dark? If they make too much noise, do the other ghosts "Shhhh!" them?

      Do ghost policemen obey the laws? What if the ghost was afraid of ghosts when they were alive?

      Are there ghost atheists? Do they just walk around saying to themselves "Nope, this isn't real"?

      There really are answers to all these questions, kids. We just have to discover them.
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  • Profile picture of the author raniya
    ghosts exsist..
    Many times i saw and feel unpredictable things in my previous house i lived.
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  • Profile picture of the author djtrillian
    My Take on it in general is that there is some real phenomena, what it actually is I don't know. Some of it (perhaps the majority) is just in the imagination of the 'observer' or misinterpretation of something totally natural.

    I will also say, I really don't approve of these totally bogus shows like 'supernatural collector' and a load of others I don't recall the names of just now. They come across as if they are presenting factual accounts when the reality is that it is completely staged and I'm sure this has to contribute to people believing more silly things than they already do. The biggest mistake people make when it comes to the ghost issue is that they often make an illogical and unfounded link to dead people, an afterlife, demons or 'evil' etc. etc. I suspect some people want to believe in ghosts because they so long to believe in God or an afterlife. But the reality is that a very real phenomena may exist and if so it is an as-yet unexplained occurrence of some type. It does not automatically mean a communication from the dead or the existence of an afterlife or deities etc. etc.

    -Just to touch on the question about ghosts at night. Obviously these ghost hunter stylee TV shows do everything at night because it makes it more dramatic for the show.

    One of my logical arguments to debunk the majority of UFO sightings is the simple fact that most are seen at night. The problem with that is that at any time half of the planet is in daylight and an alien visiting could just as easily fly around somewhere in the day time. So if they chose to visit at night it would presumably be so that they are not seen... and if that's the case then they would turn off their lights! (anyway, I know it's a very fundamentally different subject but there is some crossover when it comes to people seeing things because they want to or misinterpreting things)
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  • Profile picture of the author vic alexander
    yes they exist. but if you read the 'science of getting rich'
    you are warned not to interfere. do not work within the shadows.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by vic alexander View Post

      yes they exist. but if you read the 'science of getting rich'
      you are warned not to interfere. do not work within the shadows.
      "Do not work within the shadows". I must admit, that when I was a kid, that would have given me pause.

      "There is a reason we are afraid of the dark". See? Say it with a serious straight face, and it sounds like I have "hidden knowledge" about such things. I don't.

      Let's do another one; "When you stare into the darkness...the Darkness sometimes stares back". In the right state of mind, it sounds ...well...mysterious. It isn't. Although, I admit, it's better to say these things in dim candlelight....during a storm.

      I've read those books too.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Mr Spock chimes in with a logical argument in favour of ghosts.

        Lets go off at a tangent first. UFO's. They have been seen by credible people, some inexplicable photos/videos have been taken. Lets say 99.9 percent are, fake, false or mistaken identity of a natural phenomina known or unknown. That gives us 0,1 percent that is real and true, not bluff mistaken identity, natural. They are exactly what is being seen. Advanced spacecraft visiting us from another location or dimension.

        That means they exist. just one being bonifide is all you need and the weight comes down on at least one being real. So logically they exist. Also you could say are we so arrogant to assume that the universe or possibly multiverse being so vast is devoid of any other intellegent life. another impossibility. It's all made of the same stuff as us. Ilogical to think that there are not hundreds of thousands or millions of other advanced species out there with higher technology than us.

        As for ghosts, throughout the whole of recorded history they have been reported, felt, seen and heard. recently some good photo and video evidence exists. Same rules apply. Just a few real occurances is all you need.

        I saw my dead grandmother in a doorway shortly after she died, just for a second or 2. Light was on. No doubt in my mind as to what I saw. Can still recall it perfectly today, 45 years later. I cant prove it of course, did not have a camera or anything but know what I saw.

        Whatever the rules of ghost apperances are, anything is possible. We occupy many dimensions at the same time and sometimes we glimpse them and their occupants. Thats an opinion. but science and quantum physics is slowly coming round to that conclusion.

        Years ago I read an influential book called supernature. Basic premise, if these things that can sometimes be glimpsed, seen, even photographed exist then they are Natural. nothing to fear. We are just not able to properly measure or detect them scientifically yet.

        Food for thought.

        Live long and ponder
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Mr Spock chimes in with a logical argument in favour of ghosts.

          Lets go off at a tangent first. UFO's. They have been seen by credible people, some inexplicable photos/videos have been taken. Lets say 99.9 percent are, fake, false or mistaken identity of a natural phenomina known or unknown. That gives us 0,1 percent that is real and true...
          No, sorry, but that just means 0.01% are still unknown. Assuming they are real because they haven't been identified is illogical, Mr. Spock. Only if they are identified as real and true, then could you say that . . . except they wouldn't be UFO's anymore, because they would no longer be unidentified.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          First; A Mr. Spock reference is always welcome. I can't take a hour to explain why there is no logic whatsoever in your post, so I'll just take part of it.

          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Mr Spock chimes in with a logical argument in favour of ghosts.

          Lets go off at a tangent first. UFO's. They have been seen by credible people, some inexplicable photos/videos have been taken.
          No. Some people that say they have seen UFOs are credible. Some photos were taken. Completely different meaning.

          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Lets say 99.9 percent are, fake, false or mistaken identity of a natural phenomina known or unknown.
          I see this idea used in so many "fuzzy" ideas. You just made up a figure, hoping someone would think it made sense. Here. Let me show you; "Let's just say that 99.9% of the people that say they have personally met Superman are wrong. That leaves .1% that really met the real Superman." See? Your "logic" breaks down pretty easily.

          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          That gives us 0,1 percent that is real and true, not bluff mistaken identity, natural. They are exactly what is being seen. Advanced spacecraft visiting us from another location or dimension.

          That means they exist.
          No. It means you made up a figure, and made up what UFOs are.

          Every thing in your post was wishful thinking. I'm not trying to be mean here. But you'll have to do better than that.
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          • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            Here's another. If they have fingers to move these objects, do they leave finger impressions? Fingerprints?
            No. Housebreaking ghosts ALWAYS wear gloves. It's the done thing.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            First; A Mr. Spock reference is always welcome.
            Q: What did Mr Spock find in Kirk's toilet?
            A: The Captain's Log.

            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            That leaves 1% that really met the real Superman.
            We are one, my dear Claudette.

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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Mr Spock has no emotions so is not upset in any way by your take downs. He says "Interesting"

            This is a what if senario Mr Claude, since there are no hard and fast facts here, no real landing on the whitehouse lawn proof and statistics so all this is "lets say" and "what if" senarios.

            Working with what I have I have to make theories and assuptions based on any available evidence. From word of mouth, peoples experiences mainly, written down recorded etc. Then, looking at the human race as a whole I gauge that out of all humans not everyone out of the millions of people who has witnessed such phenomena is an outright liar or just simply deceived or misguided, or misjudging what they see.

            I'd say it was an impossibility in statistical terms based on the sheer weight of numbers over thousands of years who have recorded as seeing such phenomina

            So, I do not think my conclusions are ilogical.

            I will bow to the fact that I did say well they must be alien craft then and thats an assumption but you must understand I am from outer space and we see a lot of them. :-)

            Interesting
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

              Working with what I have I have to make theories and assuptions based on any available evidence. From word of mouth, peoples experiences mainly, written down recorded etc. Then, looking at the human race as a whole I gauge that out of all humans not everyone out of the millions of people who has witnessed such phenomena is an outright liar or just simply deceived or misguided, or misjudging what they see.

              I'd say it was an impossibility in statistical terms based on the sheer weight of numbers over thousands of years who have recorded as seeing such phenomina

              So, I do not think my conclusions are ilogical.


              Live Long And Prosper. By the way, it's "Fascinating". Mr. Spock says "Fascinating". But I get your point.

              Here's a bit of real logic;

              Dan Riffle is funny...and
              All funny people look like Barney Rubble.
              Therefore, Dan Riffle looks like Barney Rubble.


              That's logic. In fact (I swear I didn't have to look this up) it's called a Syllogism. It's a framework for a logical argument. Algebra is virtually the same thing as logic, but with numbers. But the framework is the same.

              I have to go to bed now. It's near 3AM, and you know what happens then!
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              • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                Claude, I see your problem. Your just frustrated that you have never seen a ghost or any interesting phenonmena. Well Spock is out on a fascinating and interesting tour at the moment. I have been on this tour 4 times and seen an inexplicable, unexplainable phenomena. I have photographed it, 30 pics in total.

                You will have 100 percent chance of seeing it.

                The location is Serratoga Texas, in the big Thicket. It is a narrow dirt road with a canopy of trees that make most of the journey down it like going down a tunnel. The name of the road is called Bragg Road. It is about 8 miles long (Google it for directions and more info/stories.)

                It is a super bright light that actually will chase your truck or car up and down the road. It has always appeared for me and the groups of people I was with. No question of some not seeing it, you all will. When you stop and get out it appears about 50 yards down the road, fades in and out. Can appear in the other direction. My wifes now retired boss used to live out that way and visited the road on occasion as a teen. One time he said it came right up to their car and passed through it and went straight up in the air and dissapeared.

                This light has been seen and reported for over 100 years. There are several stories as to what it is. Some say it is a night watchman who carried a lantern who met is death being knocked down by a train on a nearby railroad track. The train decapitated him so he wanders the road with the lantern looking for his head. The light is the lantern and it does have a tendency to sway back and forth side to side. That's just one story though!

                The photographs reveal the light to be smaller than it appears to the eye and it moves so fast it defeats the camera to catch it as a single point of light and gives light trails.

                Now in the last few years the road has been better signposted and a plaque put up saying it is a haunted road called the Ghost Road. Unfortunately in school holidays and around the weekends this attracts the local teenagers who go down there with cars and and try to fool visitors with there headlights. So, if you go, go on a Monday to Wednesday late at night in wintertime. Best time for uninterrupted real sightings. A simple good flashlight will reveal a car eliminating any deception.

                My third visit was with a policewoman friend and a friend of hers from out of state. We drove a mile in, the light appeared and started following. We stopped, got out and I trained a strong flashlight on it. No car, no deception. Her friend freaked out and demanded we leave and my policewoman friend drew her gun. (just in case) we pretty much left straight away driving through the spot where the light had been (it had fizzled out) The road is so narrow and thickly lined with trees, cars cannot turn around except in certain spots. We never caught up with or met a single car or truck on the way out. My policewoman friend was impressed, her friend traumatised. I feel no fear of this object, it keeps its distance

                First hand account, seen it several times, shared sighting with other people, your best chance to see something, unexplainable, inexplicable.

                Go there

                Spock's alter-ego
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                  Claude, I see your problem. Your just frustrated that you have never seen a ghost or any interesting phenonmena.
                  No. Your statement is based on nothing. You are projecting your frustration onto me, to make you feel better.

                  I've seen plenty of interesting phenomena. But when the reason for the phenomena is discovered...it's never a ghost. Never.

                  I believe you saw what you saw. You assume it's a ghost...because that's how you interpret the world around you. And here's a fact about beliefs.

                  Once you believe in something, you stop trying to figure it out. Always. And so "Lights" become "Ghosts", and it stops there. But if you continued to try to discover what really caused the lights..you would find a different answer.

                  Beliefs kill further discoveries, because you stop looking for the real answer. A belief, once accepted, stops the learning process.

                  You won't change your mind, I know. This post was really for Dennis, Ken, the two Dans.....a few others maybe.

                  I've seen ghosts. I saw my dead father. I've seen my grandfather's face on the side of a tree, and I've seen my share of UFO's.

                  But, on further inspection...it's a coat rack, shadows, a trick of light, a matter of forced perspective.

                  Believe me, I want these things to be real more than you do. And think about this;

                  If I was a real believer in Phenomena like ghosts. My story of seeing my Dad? It would have stayed "I saw my dead Dad". My Grandfather's face n the tree? It would have stayed "I saw my Grandfather's face in a tree".

                  I would have simply rejected any further evidence to the contrary. Just like all believers in such things.

                  I know you enjoyed your trip seeing the lights. That's all that matters.

                  Added later; Most people, by now, would have become frustrated and angry. You have kept your cool, and I respect that.

                  Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                  Dennis; You kind of ruined it for me. My tirades sound less brilliant when you just post a link like this. Bad Dennis!
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                  • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                    Sorry. I would not even click on that link about the light being debunked. A disembodied light that chases your truck at 50 miles per hour down a deserted road that I have seen first hand and witnessed appearing and dissapearing, whitnessed appearing in front of you and behind you, lit up with a strong flashlight to reveal no deception, no human made light source, and appears at all hours of the night!

                    Has been reported for 100 years and before cars were in use.

                    Most importantly, I have seen it, photographed it. I even photographed car headlights for comparison. There is none.

                    I suppose you just need to go there yourself. There comes a time where just pulling any old stuff off the net and using it as a reference to debunk stuff is not good enough. you need to see for yourself. you have that opportunity.

                    I like to look at conspiricy theories, physic phenomina and all kinds of stuff but you may be suprised to hear I am a stern critic and debunker and maintain objectivity and a healthy skeptitism.

                    This one. Whatever it is, it's real and there is nothing I have found by research into natural explanations that fits it. Sure, there is swamp gas in that area. Unfortunately swamp gas does not accelerate to 50 miles per hour and chase you down a road.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      Sorry. I would not even click on that link about the light being debunked.
                      I know. And that's why these ideas persist.

                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      Sure, there is swamp gas in that area. Unfortunately swamp gas does not accelerate to 50 miles per hour and chase you down a road.
                      It isn't swamp gas. It's too bad you won't read the article. Nobody says you didn't see it. Nobody says that your story isn't true. But don't you want to know what caused what you (and everyone else) saw?
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                      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
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                        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                          Hmmm perhaps I should pm you some of my pics and when your pick your jaw off the ground well who knows.
                          I'd like to see them, and I'm sure others would too. Why not just post a few of them here?
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                          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                            I'd like to see them, and I'm sure others would too. Why not just post a few of them here?
                            Seconded. obligatory filler text
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                            Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon.
                            It'll just knock over all the pieces, poop on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                            I'd like to see them, and I'm sure others would too. Why not just post a few of them here?
                            Me too.


                            lanfear63; And I promise, this is genuine interest. I would consider it a favor. Up until now, my posts have been pretty "tongue in cheek". But you have my curiosity up.
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                            • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                              Well here are my top 5 pics. Put up a one page blogger site, explanation of camera, weather conditions etc. Be gentle.

                              Bragg Road Ghostlight Pictures.
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                              • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                                Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                Well here are my top 5 pics. Put up a one page blogger site, explanation of camera, weather conditions etc. Be gentle.

                                Bragg Road Ghostlight Pictures.
                                That is a super slow shutter speed.

                                or in today's world of digital and mega pixels .... wrong settings dude.

                                I once set a 3 minute shutter speed for that effect on the forth of july for the fireworks
                                and forgot to reset it.

                                My girlfriend at the time ( now my wife ) grabbed my camm and took a picture of our deck at night
                                with a few friends candles on it.

                                It Looked exactly like every picture you offered as evidence.
                                In her instance no stabilizer ( tri pod ) and movement of the flame created that effect.

                                In my instance , it just was crappy fire works that fizzled.

                                That is usually one of the first "natural" effects people learn when they learn about
                                shutter speed and time stops. Also a wrong mix or improper exposure .... can have the same effect.

                                Of course , nowadays people are lazy.

                                Also... I really should say ... in my opinion ... that is .... possibly a super slow shutter speed.


                                Now I am NOT saying I don't think what you and your two friends saw was insignificant or wrong.
                                I am not saying your description of what you saw that night did not coincide with those pictures you saw and said ... "no way too"

                                When you said. I wont click that link .... I had no respect for that.

                                When you said ... I clicked it.. but no way is, what they said, comparable to what we say ( ad libbing )
                                Mucho respect bro.

                                I don't care what anyone says either. I only try to understand truth.
                                sometimes my understanding is blocked by a wall ( lets say learned experience )

                                Almost everything i learned as a kid in school ... 30 years later turned out wrong or
                                only a part of the "truth" except math. (although I do remember my mother complaining about "new math"

                                So I can never say for a fact ... I know the truth.
                                I learned ...just like you ... like every body ... I learned what is available at the time

                                and in most cases that truth evolves or changes.

                                that is why I said I don't understand your mindset.

                                I am just saying, what ever you think you know, what ever you perceive now.
                                give it 10 or 20 or 30 years. You will cringe at the ideas you hold right now as absolutes.

                                It is human nature.

                                Actual learning ... screw it ... real learning ... all of it is nothing more then stepping blocks.
                                Each thing you learn now ... allows you to learn some thing else. ( When the time ( i.e your body chemistry ) says it is right )

                                The crunkadunk ... is sometimes .... what your open to learn now........... is wrong ....
                                so even tho your steps have tought you its time to learn a new step , your
                                personal experience ( or learning ability ) does not allow you to... yet.

                                Personally, I think this is where idealism ... fundamentalism and just a bunch of
                                other shit people war over, comes from. With perhaps a dash of knowledge vrs area.
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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Duly noted. The light thru the camera lens or screen is very small as opposed to the naked eye view. It moved from side to side and obviously moved fast. It could become super bright to the naked eye and sometimes resembled a sparkler hand held firework though the source was bigger. It also changed color. The light moved across the road and appeared on the left and right hand sides, basically off road. Is it conclusive proof of anything?. The only thing I and the others with me could say was there is something there and a camera could capture it. Thats all really, encountered no cars or people that night. thanks for viewing and commenting.

                                  Oh and although I'm no expert in photography it was a click, done as I recall. No 3 minute job, no tripod and the auto stabalisation back in those days was at least very crude. dont think the camera had it. Wish i had been using a modern current day one, photography made easy for amateurs like me.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                    No idea. My first act would be to turn off my lights to see what changed, then turn on my lights. Then walk up to it (with the lights on still).

                                    Did you do any of that?

                                    By the way. Thanks for posting. I honestly wish I could see this for myself.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                      Next vacation Serratoga TX then Claude. Also good big-foot hunting country I have heard, did not see one down the road alas! They hate strange lights. :-)

                                      Alas did not have a flashlight on that visit, next 2 I did. Truck lights were off. You live and learn

                                      The only thing that frightened me on that road was on the first visit, we stopped near a barn. Suddenly a loud eeeeeeeawwwwww starting slowly and building up. scared the willies out of us. was a donkey, lights are nothing, donkeys at midnight are frightning!
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                                • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                  Interesting points you have there Ken. when I was young I entertained the existence of a God. I was in the Boys Brigade connected to a Methodist church. We sang hymns and went to church.
                                  Many years later I now reject the god thing and any organised religion.

                                  I currently entertain the possibility of continuation after death in some way. At 57 perhaps there is some hope attached that it is so as my life approaches its evening years. I do not wish to cease to be. This is an ex-parrot!

                                  So there will always be some bias to entertaining and researching a premise like this that there is some truth to it. Other stuff not so important, chuck it out, or constantly update it. change your views constantly based on new info/perspectives.

                                  So perhaps I should be called an agnostic, open to anything. If it is so then great. It's natural and a part of everything. Perhaps we should all be atheists though and perhaps get a nice suprise at the end.

                                  Back in the eighties I had the firm belief that we are heading for a bright utopia on earth. Science will solve everything. Illness will be banished. Turned out I was wrong.

                                  Science research is misdirected by governments, medicine is ruled by pharaceutical companies and most of it just masks pain and has horrible side effects. I could go on! Different thread.

                                  Looks like though by burning fossil fuels we may have just tipped the delicate balance of the earths equlibrium and within a 100 years we could be under water from melted pole caps and oveheated due to the suns heat being trapped and find that the earth can no longer support us.

                                  That I find depressing. All our philosophy, art, culture. Acheivments gone.

                                  What was it all for. Even if we had done something about it the earth periodically freezes over and then get melted by vulcanism.

                                  So is it any wonder people choose to bellieve in intangeable things or develop blind faith on absurd premises.

                                  Thats it, I need to flog myself again. No more outbursts like that.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author IMBlest
                                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                    Interesting points you have there Ken. when I was young I entertained the existence of a God. I was in the Boys Brigade connected to a Methodist church. We sang hymns and went to church.
                                    Many years later I now reject the god thing and any organised religion.
                                    Sad to read that you have rejected "the God thing".

                                    I think it is the people who were only involved in organized religion and who never developed a personal relationship with God/Jesus Christ who end up becoming disillusioned.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author IMBlest
                                    Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                    So perhaps I should be called an agnostic, open to anything. If it is so then great. It's natural and a part of everything. Perhaps we should all be atheists though and perhaps get a nice suprise at the end.
                                    I do not believe that atheists will "get a nice surprise at the end" as you have indicated in your post.

                                    I'm not a gambler and I refuse to gamble with my eternity.

                                    I believe it was Albert Camus who said, "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                      Originally Posted by IMBlest View Post

                                      I do not believe that atheists will "get a nice surprise at the end" as you have indicated in your post.

                                      I'm not a gambler and I refuse to gamble with my eternity.

                                      I believe it was Albert Camus who said, "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.”


                                      Please stop. I know how much your religion means to you. But you'll get this whole thread deleted. And it's actually interesting.

                                      Please.

                                      lanfear63; Please, stop talking about your religious beliefs. It's going to get the posts or even the whole thread deleted. I'm not exactly clear where the line is, but we know when we've crossed it...because the thread is gone. and this thread is getting interesting.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                        Sorry, but I thought I made it clear that I don't have any! :-)

                                        But I get your point!

                                        Back to ghosts then. Do they run on batteries? The famous camcorder or camera battery drain when some sort of manifestation is made. Or, syphoning off the electrical supply. Should the home owner pay for it or be seeking info from the ghost as to the wherabouts of the treasure for re-numeration?.

                                        If this assists the ghost in appearing to us does that mean that more ghostly appearances occur today than in the days prior to electricity use. Did they have to rely more on electrical storms? Or, is it just down to an increased population and more magnetic replays of past events to be had. The The Stanley Hotel is supposed to be quite active and is built on quartz!
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                                      • Profile picture of the author IMBlest
                                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                        Please stop. I know how much your religion means to you. But you'll get this whole thread deleted. And it's actually interesting.

                                        Please.

                                        lanfear63; Please, stop talking about your religious beliefs. It's going to get the posts or even the whole thread deleted. I'm not exactly clear where the line is, but we know when we've crossed it...because the thread is gone. and this thread is getting interesting.

                                        Sorry, I was only trying to respond to lanfear63's post.

                                        I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

                                        Nor was I trying to get the whole thread deleted.

                                        Since you started to talk about ghosts on this thread, I thought any topic is ok to talk about. I guess I was wrong.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                          Originally Posted by IMBlest View Post

                                          Sorry, I was only trying to respond to lanfear63's post.

                                          I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

                                          Nor was I trying to get the whole thread deleted.

                                          Since you started to talk about ghosts on this thread, I thought any topic is ok to talk about. I guess I was wrong.
                                          Nobody was offended. I just didn't want someone to complain and get it deleted.

                                          I think, as long as we don't talk about religion itself, or political figures (in a political context) we're pretty safe.

                                          But there is wisdom in not allowing religious or political discussions. They are Black Holes from which there is no escape. And they get out of hand very quickly.

                                          I've even deleted my own posts after re-reading them. I usually know when I've crossed the line, or offended someone.

                                          Except for Dan Riffle. It is our duty to offend him.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author IMBlest
                                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                            Nobody was offended. I just didn't want someone to complain and get it deleted.

                                            I think, as long as we don't talk about religion itself, or political figures (in a political context) we're pretty safe.

                                            But there is wisdom in not allowing religious or political discussions. They are Black Holes from which there is no escape. And they get out of hand very quickly.

                                            I've even deleted my own posts after re-reading them. I usually know when I've crossed the line, or offended someone.

                                            Except for Dan Riffle. It is our duty to offend him.
                                            No problem.

                                            I understand and get your point.

                                            To be honest, I don't remember how I came across this thread.

                                            My main purpose for coming to the WF is to find WSO's and other marketing ideas that I can use for my business and not to discuss religion or politics. LOL.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author ronrule
                                            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                            I think, as long as we don't talk about religion itself, or political figures (in a political context) we're pretty safe.
                                            Is it wrong to wish most political figures were ghosts?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
                                      Originally Posted by IMBlest View Post

                                      I do not believe that atheists will "get a nice surprise at the end" as you have indicated in your post.

                                      I'm not a gambler and I refuse to gamble with my eternity.

                                      I believe it was Albert Camus who said, "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
                                      That's really just an updated version of Pascal's Wager. To me, it's a bizarre way to think, but I suppose it makes a kind of logic sense -if you can really have faith because you think it's a good wager.

                                      Pascal's Wager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                        Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

                                        That's really just an updated version of Pascal's Wager. To me, it's a bizarre way to think, but I suppose it makes a kind of logic sense -if you can really have faith because you think it's a good wager.

                                        Pascal's Wager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                                        Larry; Thanks for bringing it up.
                                        By my posts, you probably know (all too clearly :rolleyes, my thoughts on the Supernatural.

                                        But let's ignore that, and just think of this as a problem in logic.
                                        Pascal's logic was actually sound. But his Premise was faulty.

                                        Think of it this way; Let's keep the structure of Pascal's wager. But change the subject.

                                        There is either a Superman or there isn't.
                                        If there is, believing Superman exists is good.
                                        If there isn't, believing there is... wont hurt.
                                        So, it makes sense to behave as though Superman exists.

                                        And, with that logic (which is sound) it does make sense. You can replace "Superman" with any Deity, ghosts, demons, global warming, luck, time travel, Africa, a cat, your computer...anything.

                                        The difference is....whether the thing you are talking about has a chance of being real. And if you think it has a chance of being real....then the argument is valid. If you give the idea zero chance of being real...then the argument isn't valid at all.

                                        And the premise assumes that there isn't a way to test whether something is real. I know my computer is real...because I'm typing this now.
                                        Do I know Africa exists? Not completely, but enough that I would pay for a ticket to fly there, and expect the plane to land in someplace called Africa.

                                        Replace "Superman" (in Pascal's logic) with "Dogs can understand what we say". Now, it gets muddier. Replace it with "I can levitate if I try hard enough", and now I'm pretty sure "not believing" is the right answer.

                                        But keep "Superman" in the equation? Nope. Now I'm sure. Because we are alive when he was created, I've seen the story develop through the years.
                                        We even know the story of who invented the character, and how it changed over time.

                                        But in 1,000 years? We may be debating, with anger and certainty, if Superman could really fly, or just leap vast distances.

                                        And, truth be told, if you are a Believer already, the Wager makes no difference.

                                        We're a funny species.

                                        (these are just opinions.)

                                        To the mods. If I've crossed a line in any of this. Please just delete the post, and not the whole thread. Believe me...I'll get the message.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author LarryC
                                          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                          Larry; Thanks for bringing it up.
                                          By my posts, you probably know (all too clearly :rolleyes, my thoughts on the Supernatural.

                                          But let's ignore that, and just think of this as a problem in logic.
                                          Pascal's logic was actually sound. But his Premise was faulty.

                                          Think of it this way; Let's keep the structure of Pascal's wager. But change the subject.

                                          There is either a Superman or there isn't.
                                          If there is, believing Superman exists is good.
                                          If there isn't, believing there is... wont hurt.
                                          So, it makes sense to behave as though Superman exists.

                                          And, with that logic (which is sound) it does make sense. You can replace "Superman" with any Deity, ghosts, demons, global warming, luck, time travel, Africa, a cat, your computer...anything.

                                          The difference is....whether the thing you are talking about has a chance of being real. And if you think it has a chance of being real....then the argument is valid. If you give the idea zero chance of being real...then the argument isn't valid at all.

                                          And the premise assumes that there isn't a way to test whether something is real. I know my computer is real...because I'm typing this now.
                                          Do I know Africa exists? Not completely, but enough that I would pay for a ticket to fly there, and expect the plane to land in someplace called Africa.

                                          Replace "Superman" (in Pascal's logic) with "Dogs can understand what we say". Now, it gets muddier. Replace it with "I can levitate if I try hard enough", and now I'm pretty sure "not believing" is the right answer.

                                          But keep "Superman" in the equation? Nope. Now I'm sure. Because we are alive when he was created, I've seen the story develop through the years.
                                          We even know the story of who invented the character, and how it changed over time.

                                          But in 1,000 years? We may be debating, with anger and certainty, if Superman could really fly, or just leap vast distances.

                                          And, truth be told, if you are a Believer already, the Wager makes no difference.

                                          We're a funny species.

                                          (these are just opinions.)

                                          To the mods. If I've crossed a line in any of this. Please just delete the post, and not the whole thread. Believe me...I'll get the message.
                                          True, that way of thinking could justify believing in almost anything. Though I think the point here is that this "wager" is about a topic that (allegedly) concerns the eternal fate of your soul. So the stakes are not going to be comparable when it comes to believing in Superman or not or just about any other subject.

                                          I think there are a couple of basic problems with Pascal's argument. First of all, it's about something that's probably impossible to prove or disprove. Secondly, he's turning the whole thing into a cost benefit transaction rather than a matter of faith. This, it seems to me, undermines the whole point.

                                          Getting back to the original topic, which I haven't even commented on yet, I can see debating what ghosts (and UFOs for that matter) really are, but I can't understand people who simply don't believe in these things at all. Ghosts especially, as just about every culture has this belief. Is every single anecdote a lie or hallucination?
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                                          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                                            Hey Larry. Belief is to my mind merely the entertaining and going along with a theory or premise that seems to fit the available facts or consensus of opinion currently available. If it is later proven to be wrong or partially wrong then it can be diguarded or modified based on new information.

                                            I agree with you that it is perfectly acceptable to believe that because millions of diverse people report ghosts then you can go with it, if you like, believe it. sometimes what you see is exactly what you think it is. Not all things are mistaken identity. As opposed to other things like Superman there is not anything or anyone who can currently disprove it totally. It is rather unique.

                                            However, to keep Claude happy, you should always be probing, investigative and open to new information that could explain it as something else so your belief can be adjusted or disguarded. EG: all ghostly sightings could be just replays of events gone by. Just something about natural mechanisms that we dont understand yet.

                                            If I may, I would like to go back to UFO's for a minute. Earlier I backtracked and said they don't nessesarily need to be alien beings and was wrong to boldly reach that conclusion. However of the small amount of sightings that are the most credible and unexplainable there seems to be some consensus of observations about them.

                                            1) They come in all different shapes and sizes and rarely aerodynamic looking and not based on our current understanding of what can fly and manouver in our atmosphere/air

                                            2) They seem to be able to travel huge distances in the blink of an eye. Sometimes apparently winking out and reappearing miles away. This would mean multipule times the speed of sound at least with no progressive accelleration to that speed. If a human pilot was in a flying device that could do that then in normal cirumstances he would be mashed against the side of the craft due to the instant accelleration. The folding of and manipulating space would be one way to avoid the accelleration thing so none is felt.

                                            Based on the above I can see no current technology being used by us that can do that (unless we are being super secret about its development or we have captured and alien craft and have reversed engineered it which would prove their existence anyway)

                                            So there is no evidence to support that it is us doing it, at least none revealed to the public and we could well do with that sort of technology. So if its not us and not flying animals from our planet then who is it? Someone else from inside our planet, another dimension or outer space?

                                            To entertain the above as a possible belief that it could be becomes less absurd.

                                            (until someone conclusively proves it wrong of course)
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                                              Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                                              Belief is to my mind merely the entertaining and going along with a theory or premise that seems to fit the available facts or consensus of opinion currently available.
                                              That may be part of the reason a few of us have seen things differently from the way you see them... different definitions for what belief is. To me, belief means you are convinced of a thing. I can "entertain" a theory without being convinced of the veracity of it. Entertaining it means I'm open-minded enough to examine evidence and give that evidence a chance to sway my thinking.

                                              And if the evidence doesn't sway my thinking, it doesn't mean I'm so convinced something is NOT real that I won't examine new evidence. A lot of things, for me, get filed in the "I don't know" box.

                                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                              Believers interpret their experiences one way, and Skeptics interpret their experiences another way.
                                              There are a lot of gradations in the middle of those two extremes, including belief based on logic.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                                                There are a lot of gradations in the middle of those two extremes, including belief based on logic.
                                                Dennis; About Graduations? Sure. I should have stated it differently.

                                                About Belief based on logic?
                                                I don't think there is such a thing. But I'd certainly be willing to be proven wrong. (In a private discussion. These things set off fireworks)

                                                Another flaw in perception is that Skeptics are skeptics for the same reason. I've heard arguments against believing in the paranormal that were nonsensical.

                                                As I've said before, I don't care where reality falls. I only care that I'm seeing it clearly.
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                                                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


                                                  About Belief based on logic?
                                                  I don't think there is such a thing. But I'd certainly be willing to be proven wrong. (In a private discussion. These things set off fireworks)
                                                  Sure Claude, we can do that sometime.

                                                  I might be able to explain it without any fireworks, though. I've been hit with a baseball bat when it slipped out of the batter's hand. It hurt! Now, if someone threatens to hit me with a golf club, logic tells me that will hurt too: hard bat + being hit = pain; hard golf club + being hit = pain. Thus, even though I've never been hit with a golf club, I believe it will hurt based on experiential logic. It's a belief, and it's based on logic.

                                                  Of course, experience is subject to interpretation - especially with the unexplained - so a belief may be flawed, but the logic that lead to the belief may be valid given a person's interpretation of the experience. And that what beliefs often are, an individual's interpretation of their experience.

                                                  So you see, our interpretation of reality allows us to form beliefs based on one or more forms of logic. Really, when it comes down to it, aren't all our beliefs based on some form of logic? Who would say, "This makes no sense. It's not logical. And therefore I believe it."?
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                    Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                                                    Sure Claude, we can do that sometime.

                                                    I might be able to explain it without any fireworks, though. I've been hit with a baseball bat when it slipped out of the batter's hand. It hurt! Now, if someone threatens to hit me with a golf club, logic tells me that will hurt too: hard bat + being hit = pain; hard golf club + being hit = pain. Thus, even though I've never been hit with a golf club, I believe it will hurt based on experiential logic. It's a belief, and it's based on logic.

                                                    Of course, experience is subject to interpretation - especially with the unexplained - so a belief may be flawed, but the logic that lead to the belief may be valid given a person's interpretation of the experience. And that what beliefs often are, an individual's interpretation of their experience.

                                                    So you see, our interpretation of reality allows us to form beliefs based on one or more forms of logic. Really, when it comes down to it, aren't all our beliefs based on some form of logic? Who would say, "This makes no sense. It's not logical. And therefore I believe it."?
                                                    Dennis; What you are talking about isn't really logic, but sequential experience. It involves memory, but not a logical formula. And our beliefs are almost never based on Logic, or they wouldn't be beliefs. And (Now, I'm entering an area I'm not sure of), our interpretation of experiences that aren't based on our senses, (or a provable law of physics) are usually based on beliefs we had when we were very young.

                                                    And.....in nearly every case, "logicish thinking" is used to justify an idea that has already been accepted. Logic can be used to form conclusions outside a belief system, but most can't think that way. It just isn't the normal way of thinking. And the reason it's so very hard, is that (when talking about the supernatural) there are so few real facts upon which to base a premise.

                                                    Even a complete non-believer has a difficult time using pure logic. Because in any logical formula, you have to have original points that are accepted as facts. And if they aren't truly factual,the entire process falls apart.
                                                    That's why pure logic, in these discussions, is rare. On every side.

                                                    See, in pure logic (Inductive or Deductive) experiences don't count. Because any interpretation from an experience (of a paranormal nature) may be prejudiced by belief. And you have to purge beliefs from a logical argument. That leaves little else to work with. So it hobbles a real effort to use logic. What you can end up with is a conclusion that is logically (mathematically) correct, but wrong.

                                                    Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

                                                    [/I]

                                                    Ok Claude, fair enough. I should have made myself a little clearer. MY first reaction, was that it was a ghost. In any of the events that have happened around here, I've never really tried to "logic" it out any other way.
                                                    I respect your and other's opinions around here, so I was wondering what the rest of you would think if you witnessed the above things. That's all.

                                                    People have seen Niel (the ghost), I have never seen him. He really scared the heck out of the previous owner supposedly. I have seen human shaped shadows, but it's always when I wake up in the middle of the night, so I blow it off to being sleepy. :confused:

                                                    No verbal trap involved. It was an honest question, seeking honest opinions.

                                                    Thanks for the response!

                                                    ~ Theresa
                                                    Theresa; I know that you weren't trying to trap anyone. But some questions are loaded, whether intentional or not. I would just interpret the experience a different way. To me, a dog barking at a wall, is just a dog barking at a wall.

                                                    It's not even an opinion. Just an interpretation. I'll bet I've had very similar experiences to yours (except your dog). I would just see it a different way.

                                                    To be fair, if I saw a ghost as plain as day, in full figure, standing right in front of me...I would still be looking for the projector, a reflection on a photo...something else. I would exhaust every possible cause, before I considered the supernatural. And maybe even then....I wouldn't believe. I don't know.

                                                    If seeing my dead father stand in front of me, didn't shake my non-belief, maybe nothing will. It still constantly occurs to me that everything I'm certain of, could simply be wrong.

                                                    Now a UFO? One lands in my front yard...and I'm the first one making tin foil helmets.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
                                                      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                      Dennis; What you are talking about isn't really logic, but sequential experience. It involves memory, but not a logical formula. And our beliefs are almost never based on Logic, or they wouldn't be beliefs. And (Now, I'm entering an area I'm not sure of), our interpretation of experiences that aren't based on our senses, (or a provable law of physics) are usually based on beliefs we had when we were very young.

                                                      And.....in nearly every case, logic is used to justify an idea that has already been accepted. Logic can be used to form conclusions outside a belief system, but most can't think that way. It just isn't the normal way of thinking. And the reason it's so very hard, is that (when talking about the supernatural) there are so few real facts upon which to base a premise.

                                                      Even a complete non-believer has a difficult time using pure logic. Because in any logical formula, you have to have original points that are accepted as facts. And if they aren't truly factual,the entire process falls apart.
                                                      That's why pure logic, in these discussions, is rare. On every side.

                                                      See, in pure logic (Inductive or Deductive) experiences don't count. Because any interpretation from an experience (of a paranormal nature) may be prejudiced by belief. And you have to purge beliefs from a logical argument. That leaves little else to work with. So it hobbles a real effort to use logic. What you can end up with is a conclusion that is logically (mathematically) correct, but wrong.



                                                      Theresa; I know that you weren't trying to trap anyone. But some questions are loaded, whether intentional or not. I would just interpret the experience a different way. To me, a dog barking at a wall, is just a dog barking at a wall.

                                                      It's not even an opinion. Just an interpretation. I'll bet I've had very similar experiences to yours (except your dog). I would just see it a different way.

                                                      To be fair, if I saw a ghost as plain as day, in full figure, standing right in front of me...I would still be looking for the projector, a reflection on a photo...something else. I would exhaust every possible cause, before I considered the supernatural. And maybe even then....I wouldn't believe. I don't know.

                                                      If seeing my dead father stand in front of me, didn't shake my non-belief, maybe nothing will. It still constantly occurs to me that everything I'm certain of, could simply be wrong.

                                                      Now a UFO? One lands in my front yard...and I'm the first one making tin foil helmets.
                                                      Thanks Claude!

                                                      Now your response makes more sense so me. I am not sure what I'd do if I saw my mother's ghost in front of me. Did I want it to be there?

                                                      When these things started happening, I allowed my imagination to get the best of me. I felt someone was behind me while walking down our stairs. It was a benevolent feeling.... and just plain silly.

                                                      Again, respectfully, I appreciate your input. The bolded statement above, I wish everyone thought that way. :p

                                                      I do wish for you, a big ol' UFO landing right in your front yard! However, I'm sure you'd walk right into their light just to prove they couldn't abduct you!

                                                      Thanks again!

                                                      ~ Theresa
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                        Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

                                                        I do wish for you, a big ol' UFO landing right in your front yard! However, I'm sure you'd walk right into their light just to prove they couldn't abduct you!

                                                        Thanks again!

                                                        ~ Theresa
                                                        Are you kidding? I'd walk up to it because I'd be fascinated. I would really really want to get on that ship. Probably a dumb idea.
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                                          Claude and Dennis,

                                                          I think your differing views regarding logical belief could be due to the differing definitions of each:

                                                          be·lief

                                                          1) acceptance of truth of something: acceptance by the mind that something is true or real, often underpinned by an emotional or spiritual sense of certainty

                                                          2) trust: confidence that somebody or something is good or will be effective

                                                          3) something that somebody believes in: a statement, principle, or doctrine that a person or group accepts as true

                                                          Synonyms: confidence · trust · certainty · credence · acceptance


                                                          log·ic:

                                                          1) theory of reasoning: the branch of philosophy that deals with the theory of deductive and inductive arguments and aims to distinguish good from bad reasoning

                                                          2) system or instance of reasoning: any system of, or an instance of, reasoning and inference

                                                          3) sensible argument and thought: sensible rational thought and argument rather than ideas that are influenced by emotion or whim

                                                          Synonyms: reason · judgment · sense · common sense · lucidity · reasoning · rationality
                                                          If you look at belief definition number one and logic definition number three, then Claude is right.

                                                          However, if you look at belief definition number 3 and logic definition number 2, then Dennis is right.

                                                          You're welcome.


                                                          Terra
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                                                          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                                                            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                                            Claude and Dennis,

                                                            I think your differing views regarding logical belief could be due to the differing definitions of each:



                                                            If you look at belief definition number one and logic definition number three, then Claude is right.

                                                            However, if you look at belief definition number 3 and logic definition number 2, then Dennis is right.

                                                            You're welcome.


                                                            Terra
                                                            Dearest Terra; The definition of Logic is the common use of the word, and is used to mean "Reasonable". But there really is a science of logic, and it looks very similar to Algebra, when laid out on a Whiteboard.. It follows certain formulas. That's the Logic I was talking about.

                                                            But that was really a mistake on my part, because that's not what everyone meant by "Logic". If you use the common usage of the word "Logic", then Dennis was more right than I was.

                                                            Dennis was more right than I was....Now I can't enjoy my Thanksgiving. Thanks Terra!
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                                                            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                                                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                              Dennis was more right than I was....Now I can't enjoy my Thanksgiving. Thanks Terra!
                                                              But I can!
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                                                            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                                              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                                                              Dearest Terra; The definition of Logic is the common use of the word, and is used to mean "Reasonable". But there really is a science of logic, and it looks very similar to Algebra, when laid out on a Whiteboard.. It follows certain formulas. That's the Logic I was talking about.

                                                              But that was really a mistake on my part, because that's not what everyone meant by "Logic". If you use the common usage of the word "Logic", then Dennis was more right than I was.

                                                              Dennis was more right than I was....Now I can't enjoy my Thanksgiving. Thanks Terra!
                                                              Sure you can, you just thanked me and that means you can give thanks. And what's Thanksgiving all about if not about giving thanks, right? :p

                                                              Thanksgiving saved! Whew!!


                                                              Terra
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                    • Profile picture of the author IMBlest
                      Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                      Sorry. I would not even click on that link about the light being debunked. A disembodied light that chases your truck at 50 miles per hour down a deserted road that I have seen first hand and witnessed appearing and dissapearing, whitnessed appearing in front of you and behind you, lit up with a strong flashlight to reveal no deception, no human made light source, and appears at all hours of the night!

                      Has been reported for 100 years and before cars were in use.

                      Most importantly, I have seen it, photographed it. I even photographed car headlights for comparison. There is none.

                      I suppose you just need to go there yourself. There comes a time where just pulling any old stuff off the net and using it as a reference to debunk stuff is not good enough. you need to see for yourself. you have that opportunity.

                      I like to look at conspiricy theories, physic phenomina and all kinds of stuff but you may be suprised to hear I am a stern critic and debunker and maintain objectivity and a healthy skeptitism.

                      This one. Whatever it is, it's real and there is nothing I have found by research into natural explanations that fits it. Sure, there is swamp gas in that area. Unfortunately swamp gas does not accelerate to 50 miles per hour and chase you down a road.
                      I agree. Many people have a tough time believing unless they see it for themselves.

                      I guess with all the advances in medicine, science and technology, most people think that they can only explain away everything based on what they can see.

                      They don't realize that the unseen and spiritual world is more real than what they can see with their eyes.

                      I believe that you had seen a supernatural phenomena because I have personally experienced certain things myself that cannot be easily explained.

                      More importantly, I believe in God/Jesus Christ and I believe that the God who loves us gave each of us a spirit/soul and created each of us not just for a time but for eternity.
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  • Profile picture of the author Arslan Zahid
    It is true that Ghosts exists. and if some male or female ghost likes you then it never stop to keep coming after you. And that's true. i have seen these through my own eyes.

    Ghosts lives in lonely places where no human or animal can live like some parts of jungle, lives in trees, old building which empty for decades.

    There are good ghosts and bad ghosts as like there are good humans and bad humans.

    So don't be afraid from them they don't hurt you if you don't interfere into their life's.
    like passing from a tree don't piss on it, or don't throw stones or any thing on old house or on trees, stuff like that.

    I think that it is enough for you all to know but still if you have got more questions about them let me know i will do my best to give you write question.
    Thanks.
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  • Spiritual Feng Shui can explain this, check out Lillian Too's information.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
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    • Profile picture of the author djtrillian
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I just watched a video of it on youtube and I'd say it's definitely that beheaded railroad guy.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by djtrillian View Post

        I just watched a video of it on youtube and I'd say it's definitely that beheaded railroad guy.
        Seriously? Sure looks like car headlights to me. You can even see the lights turn away if you look closely. The car turning is what causes them to "fade away" IMO.

        It sure seems odd to me that someone would choose to believe the most implausible explanation of all and reject the most logical explanation.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Sorry. I would not even click on that link about the light being debunked.
          I absolutely do not understand your mindset.


          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          It sure seems odd to me that someone would choose to believe the most implausible explanation of all and reject the most logical explanation.

          A billion or so people with that same attitude is part of why we stayed in the dark ages for so long. ...
          and to a certain degree why some things still take so long to catch up with science today.
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Hmmm perhaps I should pm you some of my pics and when your pick your jaw off the ground well who knows. The car headlight ones I took for comparison actually when photographed show up a much bigger static blob of light with a secondary red light. (side light)Totally different.

            As for my mindset, just about everything on the net can be either the truth, distorted truth, sensationalised, debunked, ridiculed etc. I have spent a lot of time reading all sorts of views and takes on subjects online. The only thing you can do is make up your mind about stuff based on all of it or leave it open. The net is still an open forum though and in most countries not censored. The last bastion of freedom of real info and ideas but also open to charlatans, debunkers, liars

            Of course I never witness these things first hand to know the real facts. As with newspaper, tv and radio reporting you are fed info all the time that may be sanitised and censored, you never know for sure. You tend to form a view of the world based on them a lot of the time though. And, I can be guilty of going along with some it like a lot of us as we are not generally activists or want to spend our time questioning everything. We are too busy earning a crust and getting by!

            But in this rare one off case I choose to ignore what may be written in favour or against something and choose to make a judgement based on first hand observation with my own eyes and camera and flashlight.

            Is that too much to ask folks?

            Update

            Wellll. I actually just clicked on the link, took one look at the pics he had taken and gleened enough to see his explanation was that it was a car headlight. Fell about laughing, these do not remotely resemble mine. Except for the ones where I deliberately took pics of car headlights. When I get a sec, I have webhosting, going to put a few on a webpage and send you the link.

            PS
            Yes I am always cool and like being challenged and shot down if required. Your pertinent points are welcome. I surf conspiracy theories and interesting phenonenom and try to be objective and stay in observational mode as much as i can, try to become non obsessive about anything and say well that's that, what else? This one I'm obviously a little more passionate about, more than I would like to admit to myself. I will be chastising myself with a cat of nine's shortly!

            No, its not ghost by default, its an unexplained phenomenom!
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    There are questions I ask people about ghosts.

    How is a ghost confined to a home? Is the wooden wall keeping it inside?
    I think the theory is simply that they feel more comfortable there.

    If you add an addition onto your home, will it be haunted too?
    GOOD QUESTION! Mrs. Winchester would say YES!

    If you move your home, will the ghost come too, or stay where it is?
    The theory is usually that they STAY!

    What about all the other people over the last many thousands of years that died where your home sits? Where are they?
    I guess the NEW guys EVICT THEM!

    Are there Cro-Magnon Ghosts? Neanderthal ghosts?
    Well, THEY wouldn't be comfortable in homes, would they?

    If ghosts speak, how can our ears hear them? Our ears hear vibrations in the air.
    GOOD QUESTION! Then again, has anyone said they hear them AUDIBLY?

    Are the ghosts in color? Black and white?
    I GUESS faded color. I don't know how clothes get ghosts though. Shouldn't they be NAKED?

    Why do ghosts wear clothes? Did the clothing die with them?
    See last question.

    Why don't ghosts ever speak languages other than ours?
    Why would they know another? THOUGH, if they went all over, I guess they must have a common language. :/

    If ghosts talk, why would their mouths move? They have no larynx.
    HABIT?

    If a ghost can walk through walls, how can their feet get traction on the floor?
    YEAH, and WHY don't they fall through the floor?

    If ghosts walk through walls, why can't they walk over to the next door neighbor's?
    COMFORT! Remember?

    Why do ghosts follow the rotation of the Earth and follow the Earth traveling through space? Why doesn't gravity affect them? Or why does gravity affect them?
    GOOD QUESTION!

    Can ghosts remember? How do memories form in a non corporeal form?
    If a human gets alzheimers, will they suddenly remember all they forgot upon death?

    Why don't ghosts ever bother me?
    GOOD QUESTION!

    Why don't ghosts appear to groups of people. Why don't they ever appear to a group of scientists in a lab?
    GOOD QUESTION!

    Why do the words you say (to exorcize a ghost or spirit), affect them..but not us?
    GOOD QUESTION!

    When homes are torn down...do the ghosts stay?
    Supposedly they DO!

    Why do ghosts only appear in the dark, and not in an office building with all the lights on?
    Supposedly they DO!

    On Ghost Hunters...why don't they turn on the light? Wouldn't it be easier to see the ghosts?
    Those CHARLATANS on the "syfy" channel should stick to roots in sewers!

    Why aren't ghosts willing to tell us where they buried the treasure?
    WHY SHOULD THEY?

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    lanfear - First, thanks for posting the pics.

    I can't comment on what you saw or believe you saw, but I can say I've taken similar pics when I was riding my bike and shooting just to play with a new camera, and again when I was trying to photograph lightning, and again from a moving car. I'm not saying you're faking it, just that there could be an explanation you haven't considered.

    Since you took those pics, do you live in that area? If so, why not try a little experiment. It might make you famous for debunking the myth. Here's what I mean...

    Go to the place where the lights are often seen. Find the side roads down the road and position someone at each one. Then you go back up the road and watch for the lights. If you see them, take note of the time. Have your buddies note the time of any cars or motorcycles that come down the road and turn at the side roads. Then get together and compare notes.

    Might be interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Dennis, big operation in an 8 mile stretch of road. I emailed the Ghosthunters website a few years back with my pics suggesting that they get with the local council and cops close off the road for an evening. Never even got a reply.

      Since gone off that show, scuduggery and deception going on. One of the ex-girls on it has a you-tube vid saying when she realised that they were performing fake incidents to boost the rating she left and cried for 4 days. Grant left too, wonder why, perhaps he got fed up with it as well. It started off with almost nothing happening and strangely got more incidents occuring over the years. I respected nothing happening often as it being an honest reality show. SYFY must have thought to change that and offered them money to liven it up a little.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        Dennis, big operation in an 8 mile stretch of road. I emailed the Ghosthunters website a few years back with my pics suggesting that they get with the local council and cops close off the road for an evening. Never even got a reply.

        Since gone off that show, scuduggery and deception going on. One of the ex-girls on it has a you-tube vid saying when she realised that they were performing fake incidents to boost the rating she left and cried for 4 days. Grant left too, wonder why, perhaps he got fed up with it as well. It started off with almost nothing happening and strangely got more incidents occuring over the years. I respected nothing happening often as it being an honest reality show. SYFY must have thought to change that and offered them money to liven it up a little.
        That's one reason I think a healthy dose of skepticism is prudent when considering possible paranormal events. Too many times they have been proven hoaxes or simply misunderstood or misinterpreted natural phenomena.

        That doesn't mean I'm saying it, whatever it is, is impossible. It just means I haven't seen any convincing proof yet, and I need proof to jump off the fence. At some point in my life I decided knowing the truth was more important to me than protecting my beliefs. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, I don't know you, but that's why I say I'm an open-minded skeptic when it comes to this stuff. It's the most logical attitude to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
    Calling all realists, skeptics and such!

    Please understand my question is genuine! Claude, you and I have had a tete-a-tete about ghost before, briefly. My question(s) are as such:

    Anyone else want to pipe in, please do!

    I have a ghost in my house. Perhaps more than one. Now, going with the skeptics/realists/logisticsers <---it's a word now! ... I am interested in your explantaions to the following events.

    My first encounter HERE, (not my first encounter), I was sitting alone in the dining room working on my computer. Someone, something, moved my hair away from my right ear. We have no air ducts where a heater/air conditioner turned on, nothing like that. I looked up from my screen, and my two dogs and my cat were all staring in the same direction.

    My second encounter is a tad embarrassing, BUTT BARE WITH ME (you'll get that joke in a second). I was in the downstairs master using the facilities, again, alone in the house, and someone, something, BLEW IN MY EAR! ***RESIST THE URGE TO SAY "IN MY REAR" **** YOU HEAR ME RIFFLE/WHITACRE???

    Ok, now a short summary on what I have seen my pets do.
    We adopted a rescue dog (he's lab/shepherd), soon after he came to live with us, we were sitting and eating dinner at the coffee table. The dog was on my couch, sleeping. He jumped up, ran infront of the table, sat up like a bear and started pawing the air. He was facing toward a wall, not us.

    One day, he wouldn't come out of my bedroom (again, the downstairs master). He would get to the doorway and lay down. He appeared to be staring at something I couldn't see. I thought it was the cat.. he was terrified of my gray tabby. I went out into the livingroom, no cat. I came back into the bedroom and the dog was frozen, wouldn't move or come to me.

    My one cat used to sit up and claw the air, like he was playing with a string. My other dogs, one in paticular, has sat in my living room and barked at the upstairs (it's a great room kind of room). She snaps her jaws when she's upset, or wants something. She kept pacing and snapping her jaws and looking upstairs.

    I was on the phone, and was outside, I could here the lab/shepherd barking. He was barking his "big dog bark". No one was on our property, there were no critters in the yard... I looked through my windows and saw him, hair up on his back, barking at the corner!

    Ok, now those are just some things, but they all happened BEFORE I found out that the previous owner died in this house. He loved and owned black shepherds (my dog is black and looks more shepherd than lab).

    Again, there's more, but what say you logisticsers? I'm no fan of "I wrote it down and read it, I believe everything I read". I like to research and learn. However, I am also a believer that your mind can do more amazing things than one realizes. I do believe that we as humans have many more skills than we know.

    Thanks for your time, sorry for the long post, but as stated, this is interesting and I really want everyone's view points!

    ~ Theresa
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

      Calling all realists, skeptics and such!

      Please understand my question is genuine! Claude, you and I have had a tete-a-tete about ghost before, briefly. My question(s) are as such:

      ~ Theresa
      Theresa; I don't mean any of this personally. To be fair, the first possibility is that it's all a lie. The second possibility is that you believe everything you say but you are delusional. The third possibility is that everything you say is true but are incorrect as to the cause. The fourth possibility is that everything you say is true, and you are correctly identifying the cause.

      I don't know which is true. I wasn't there. and I have no information to support any of the choices.

      Your question is actually a common question for Skeptics;
      "How do you explain..." and then there is the story.

      The problem, is that the assumption is that the story is absolutely true, and there is no mistaking perception for reality.
      The question is a verbal trap. There is no answer, because the premise is stacked against the person answering. So, respectfully, I'll not give an explanation. I simply don't know enough. And to be honest, I'm not all knowing. There is a very distinct possibility that I would be wrong.


      Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      Getting back to the original topic, which I haven't even commented on yet, I can see debating what ghosts (and UFOs for that matter) really are, but I can't understand people who simply don't believe in these things at all. Ghosts especially, as just about every culture has this belief. Is every single anecdote a lie or hallucination?
      Larry; Every culture has different beliefs about death and a spirit world. But they all have beliefs of that sort. I know you can't understand why someone would simply not believe these things. Every believer has that thought.

      All I can say, is that we see the world through a different lens. Our brains are wired differently. Believers interpret their experiences one way, and Skeptics interpret their experiences another way.

      There is no answer I could give, that would satisfy you. Believe me, I know.
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      • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Theresa; I don't mean any of this personally. To be fair, the first possibility is that it's all a lie. The second possibility is that you believe everything you say but you are delusional. The third possibility is that everything you say is true but are incorrect as to the cause. The fourth possibility is that everything you say is true, and you are correctly identifying the cause.

        I don't know which is true. I wasn't there. and I have no information to support any of the choices.

        Your question is actually a common question for Skeptics;
        "How do you explain..." and then there is the story.

        The problem, is that the assumption is that the story is absolutely true, and there is no mistaking perception for reality.
        The question is a verbal trap. There is no answer, because the premise is stacked against the person answering. So, respectfully, I'll not give an explanation. I simply don't know enough. And to be honest, I'm not all knowing. There is a very distinct possibility that I would be wrong.


        Ok Claude, fair enough. I should have made myself a little clearer. MY first reaction, was that it was a ghost. In any of the events that have happened around here, I've never really tried to "logic" it out any other way.
        I respect your and other's opinions around here, so I was wondering what the rest of you would think if you witnessed the above things. That's all.

        People have seen Niel (the ghost), I have never seen him. He really scared the heck out of the previous owner supposedly. I have seen human shaped shadows, but it's always when I wake up in the middle of the night, so I blow it off to being sleepy. :confused:

        No verbal trap involved. It was an honest question, seeking honest opinions.

        Thanks for the response!

        ~ Theresa
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    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
      Originally Posted by Khemosabi View Post

      Calling all realists, skeptics and such!


      ~ Theresa
      Your enemy is invisible so you need something with a high rate of fire and lots of ammunition.

      You should also rent the movie Predator with Arnold Schwarzenegger for inspiration and training material.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Claude,

    I think you're referring to formal logic, whereas I was referring to experiential logic, which, if I recall correctly, is a subset of informal logic. The website I had bookmarked seems to be an expired domain with a fake search facility (that only provides "sponsored" results).

    So, if we consider the problem using formal logic, you are correct.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Claude,

      I think you're referring to formal logic, whereas I was referring to experiential logic, which, if I recall correctly, is a subset of informal logic. The website I had bookmarked seems to be an expired domain with a fake search facility (that only provides "sponsored" results).

      So, if we consider the problem using formal logic, you are correct.
      Yup. In fact, you're right in calling it Formal Logic. I usually call it Symbolic Logic, because it's the same as a complex math problem....and that's what Formal Logic was called in a college textbook I studied on the subject. Man, talk about a dry read.....

      Now we can all have a Happy Thanksgiving.

      Except Riffle. It's very important to me that my Thanksgiving is slightly more Happy than his. I think I'll make sure of that by showing up at his door.

      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      But I can!
      "When I read the word 'Silent', I thought 'What a great idea for Riffle.'" - Claude Whitacre
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Now we can all have a Happy Thanksgiving.

        Except Riffle. It's very important to me that my Thanksgiving is slightly more Happy than his. I think I'll make sure of that by showing up at his door.
        Show up hungry, I understand he's a fairly good cook. Hope you have a nice holiday. Not sure I'd want to spend it with Riffle though. All those flatulence jokes ... that would stink.
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