Taking a Stand on Scams and Junk Marketing

12 years ago

We can't all be the same and we shouldn't. Everyone should be and do what they want then let the market pick and chose that is what freedom is, we can all be the same or what horrible world we would live in if all are the same even if all are good.

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loaf1011

12 years ago

Darren - love the post, and couldn't agree more! The economist in me says that it's up to the market to correct the issue...if people were more informed and educated (and understood that if it's too good to be true then it is!), then this entire black-hat, dishonest market would be completely gone.

If people stop buying, sellers will stop spewing that garbage and will need to improve their game if they want to make any money.

Let's keep educating!

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Darren J Thompson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by loaf1011

Darren - love the post, and couldn't agree more! The economist in me says that it's up to the market to correct the issue...if people were more informed and educated (and understood that if it's too good to be true then it is!), then this entire black-hat, dishonest market would be completely gone.

If people stop buying, sellers will stop spewing that garbage and will need to improve their game if they want to make any money.

Let's keep educating!

I agree - the problem is the industry is built on taking short cuts which as our grandfathers always said never work. How many products out there are built on the idea of gaming the system ? I'm thinking these automated affiliate stores that get your adsense account banned or the PLR blogs that get your IP penalized.

It is possible to make a very good living online - but the mentality needs to be more on making real money from legitimate sources rather than treating our industry like a Pyramid Scheme where the only way to earn is to make money off of people wanting to make money - but no new revenue is being created from outside the industry.

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Steve B 12 years ago

Darren,

I don't know if there has ever been a time in the history of man that scammers, rip-offs, snake oil salesmen and get rich quick schemes didn't chase after the easy quick sale by taking advantage of the emotions of buyers.

I don't think that the offenders will ever be completely stopped.

What can be done, as some have suggested, is to educate the consumer so that he doesn't fall for the scammer's too-good-to-be-true deals. In that regard, you can individually make a difference with your own list, customers, and prospects through your education.

Just like bad weather, you'll never tame the things you can't control!

Steve
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azgold

12 years ago

Originally Posted by loaf1011

Darren - love the post, and couldn't agree more! The economist in me says that it's up to the market to correct the issue...if people were more informed and educated (and understood that if it's too good to be true then it is!), then this entire black-hat, dishonest market would be completely gone.

If people stop buying, sellers will stop spewing that garbage and will need to improve their game if they want to make any money.

Let's keep educating!

Couldn't agree more!

I know that there are a lot of ethical marketers who refuse to dupe/scam/spam their visitors or subscribers and I admire their integrity. They will, in my opinion, prevail and outlast the blackhatters.

No matter how tempting a sneaky shortcut can be when you need money, it is just not worth what it would do to you if you aren't naturally of that bent. I think you'd feel pretty guilty.

Just my opinion, I don't know enough about blackhat to even attempt it if I was like that.

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Mikej413

12 years ago

I'm very new here and am very interested in learning about how to avoid scams online. There's a few I've come across that seem like scams. Is there a thread on this website that has a list of scam sites? I would mention some names but some people on here might belong to those and I don't want to seem like I'm outing any specific company. I really just don't know and don't want to speculate. At the same time I would like some real information about this. Thanks.

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Hopeless Bromantic

12 years ago

Don't forget that there are quite a few independent sites out there that try to take on this type of watchdog role, and some of them are pretty good at what they do.

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Mikej413

12 years ago

Could you mention some of them or are you not allowed to do that on here?

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikej413

Could you mention some of them or are you not allowed to do that on here?

It's commonly referred to as rule number one because it's the first rule posted in the main forum rules thread:

MAIN FORUM RULE

If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.

In case you want to check it out...

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...rum-rules.html

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Mikej413

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

It's commonly referred to as rule number one because it's the first rule posted in the main forum rules thread:

In case you want to check it out...

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...rum-rules.html

That's not at all what I was asking. There's a big difference there.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikej413

I'm very new here and am very interested in learning about how to avoid scams online. There's a few I've come across that seem like scams. Is there a thread on this website that has a list of scam sites? I would mention some names but some people on here might belong to those and I don't want to seem like I'm outing any specific company. I really just don't know and don't want to speculate. At the same time I would like some real information about this. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Mikej413

Could you mention some of them or are you not allowed to do that on here?

Originally Posted by Mikej413

That's not at all what I was asking. There's a big difference there.

If you're trying to differentiate between labeling a website or a person as scammers, the answer is no, you can't name them here. If that's not what you're asking try elaborating on what you're trying to determine so we can help you.

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Hopeless Bromantic

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

If you're trying to differentiate between labeling a website or a person as scammers, the answer is no, you can't name them here. If that's not what you're asking try elaborating on what you're trying to determine so we can help you.

Just to clarify, Dennis:

Are we allowed to name websites that focus on listing other websites that they think are risky to visit and/or deceptive?

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Dennis Gaskill 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic

Just to clarify, Dennis:

Are we allowed to name websites that focus on listing other websites that they think are risky to visit and/or deceptive?

Hi Dave,

That's a tough one because there could be several variables involved. For example, how it's presented could make a difference. Whether a mod thought it was your own site would make difference. The actual site in question might make a difference too. Basically, it would be a judgment call, and not all mods will make the same judgment call every time. That's human nature.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. As someone who has owned a private forum in the past, I can tell you from experience that moderating is not nearly as black and white as most folks believe. My forum wasn't in the "make money" niche, it was just about web design and required a fee to join, so you'd think that wouldn't be troublesome (I didn't see it coming anyway), but people are people, and people do things that create problems.
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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic

Just to clarify, Dennis:

Are we allowed to name websites that focus on listing other websites that they think are risky to visit and/or deceptive?

I know this doesn't perfectly fit into what you asked, but it's an example: a somewhat prominent Warrior once linked to their a video on their own website where they complained about other Warriors. This Warrior was given, I believe, a one month ban.

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Shadowflux

12 years ago

No matter what happens, the cream will always rise to the top, the chaff will always blow away in the wind. Remember the days before Google's Panda update? There were countless websites filled with nothing but gibberish and links. That was "the way to do it" until Panda.

When the update hit, so many garbage sites disappeared. There were threads started all over the web by people who were panicking because they got bumped down to page 237 of Google.

You know who was still standing? The quality sites, the people who relied on high quality content which was updated regularly. The people who built real links and didn't just push a thousand affiliate offers.

That's the way it goes. There will always be scammers and people looking to take the easy way. These people have, throughout human history, always gotten what's coming to them in one way or another.

The problem with a regulatory body is that someone needs to decide on the regulations. Someone gets to choose what is and what isn't acceptable. That is a good way to put a stranglehold on an industry.

When you surf the big waves, you might get bitten by a shark. It's better to take the risk than have all the sharks murdered so you don't need to worry about it.

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Kay King

12 years ago

Are we allowed to name websites that focus on listing other websites that they think are risky to visit and/or deceptive?

I'd have a problem with that. If you aren't allowed to post your own list of what you think are scam sites - what good would it do to post a list of other people's opinions of scam sites?

Many people scream "scam" when what they mean is "I couldn't do it" or "I didn't understand it" or "the seller stopped answering me after I asked 3 dozen questions about how to apply the $7 product."

kay

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Hopeless Bromantic

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I'd have a problem with that. If you aren't allowed to post your own list of what you think are scam sites - what good would it do to post a list of other people's opinions of scam sites?

Many people scream "scam" when what they mean is "I couldn't do it" or "I didn't understand it" or "the seller stopped answering me after I asked 3 dozen questions about how to apply the $7 product."

kay

Consumer advocacy.

As long as the sites themselves are run legitimately and screen what users say before they post, they'll always be adding value to the marketplace.

It's also the same reason WF has a review section.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic

Consumer advocacy.

As long as the sites themselves are run legitimately and screen what users say before they post, they'll always be adding value to the marketplace.

It's also the same reason WF has a review section.

That a big can of worms there. The mods here are volunteers with their own businesses to run. They don't have time to vet every site someone links too.

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Hopeless Bromantic 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

That a big can of worms there. The mods here are volunteers with their own businesses to run. They don't have time to vet every site someone links too.

Agreed, although having the mods maintain a whitelist and a blacklist might help a bit. Just a thought...
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popstocks

Banned 12 years ago

The net is perfect platform for scammes. They've ruined it

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Daniel Evans

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Darren J Thompson

Or the famous how to guide that assure you will make $5000 a month spamming Facebook - but are only charging $7.95 for this exclusive information that the Gurus are furious for him revealing ?

....Or the famous how to guide that assures you will make $5000 a month spamming Facebook - but are charging a premium price of $277.95 for this exclusive information that the potential buyers are furious about because it isn't $7.95.....

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yoangov

12 years ago

I totally agree with this thread! Also I notice that most recent WSOs are not full of pink-fluffy-reviews all over the place. Also noobs are afraid to post realistic reviews, as this might result in a conflict.

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ronrule

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Darren J Thompson

How many times have we come across product launches with post after post of glowing reviews from people that always seem to write glowing reviews.

There isn't much product owners can do about that. Affiliates often leave rave reviews under alternate accounts in order to over-inflate the value perception of the product they're referring people to.

Or the famous how to guide that assure you will make $5000 a month spamming Facebook - but are only charging $7.95 for this exclusive information that the Gurus are furious for him revealing ?

Why would you assume the information isn't valid? Yes, this is a serious question.

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popstocks

Banned 12 years ago

yes most people label everything a scam. It didn't work for me, so it's a scam.
he didn't answer my email within 12 hours, therefore it's a scam, etc. Most people should stick to jobs.

Spend all day posting on the net about it. If only they put the same effort into trying to make money.

Many people scream "scam" when what they mean is "I couldn't do it" or "I didn't understand it" or "the seller stopped answering me after I asked 3 dozen questions about how to apply the $7 product."

kay

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popstocks

Banned 12 years ago

Losing battle o.p. because it's human nature.

let's stop murder, lying, cheating, war, etc All pointless and harming. Never will though.

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Kay King

12 years ago

Consumer advocacy.

This isn't a consumer protection forum - it's a marketing forum.

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Hopeless Bromantic

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

This isn't a consumer protection forum - it's a marketing forum.

"Consumer advocacy" was the general answer to your question, Kay. You didn't specify "in this forum."

And if the forum doesn't want to maintain any lists of watchdog sites, people can still get to them fairly easily by Googling "online scam sites" or something similar.

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Kay King

12 years ago

When posting on this forum about the rules for this forum - would seem to infer I was referring to this forum. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

You asked:

Are we allowed to name websites that focus on listing other websites that they think are risky to visit and/or deceptive?

In MY opinion - if you are not allowed to post "John Smith is a scammer" due to rules on this forum - why would you be allowed to post a link on this forum to a site that says "John Smith is a scammer"? I could be wrong - you could try it and see what happens.

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Hopeless Bromantic

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

When posting on this forum about the rules for this forum - would seem to infer I was referring to this forum. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

You asked:

In MY opinion - if you are not allowed to post "John Smith is a scammer" due to rules on this forum - why would you be allowed to post a link on this forum to a site that says "John Smith is a scammer"? I could be wrong - you could try it and see what happens.

If all the site contained was someone's rants about John Smith, I'd agree with that opinion.

But what do you think about the 'Yelp-like' sites that collect reviews of online businesses instead of brick-and-mortar ones? And that give the business owners an open forum to respond to dissatisfied customers?

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Hopeless Bromantic

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Unfortunately, websites based on naming scammers are usually scams.

Websites in the travel service business are "usually" scams, too. And then there are the proven ones like Travelocity and Expedia.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Ron,

There isn't much product owners can do about that. Affiliates often leave rave reviews under alternate accounts in order to over-inflate the value perception of the product they're referring people to.

If you see this happening, or suspect it, please report the post(s).

I haven't seen this one yet, but it wouldn't surprise me much. It only takes one or two getting away with it for it to start being taught as a "cool technique" for boosting affiliate sales.

Paul

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Taking a Stand on Scams and Junk Marketing

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