27 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Until recently, I barely ever heard about Krav Maga, fighting techniques developed in Israel. Now I seeing references to it almost everywhere I look. First it is blonde female Russian Israeli army veterans serving as bodyguards for business moguls in Vancouver. Now it is Krav Maga lessons everywhere. What's going on?
  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    That's been in the media for quite a while. There was even a movie from about 10 years ago where the character learns Krav Maga.

    Enough (2002) - IMDb
    Signature
    Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8871166].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      That's been in the media for quite a while. There was even a movie from about 10 years ago where the character learns Krav Maga.

      Enough (2002) - IMDb
      I've known about Krav Maga for a long time. I never thought of it as a martial art. It is too brutal for that. If you want to be able to beat anyone of any training in a fight, Krav Maga is the way to go. Almost every move would be illegal in MMA, lol.
      Signature

      Project HERE.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8871205].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Nothing's "going on". It's just that some arts are easier for the average person to learn and use and once they become known, they become more popular. I learned Modern Arnis because I'm pretty tiny and don't have a lot of upper body strength - nor did I have time to devote my whole life to learning an art. I can drop a guy three times my size without breaking a sweat because I picked an art that would allow me easier defense than others. Not sure I'd be able to do that if I'd studied karate.

    I also didn't want a lot of flash and style. Wasn't going into competitions. Just wanted to be able to take care of myself when the need arises.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8871208].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I learned Modern Arnis

      You run around with a machete and eskrima all day?
      Signature

      If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8874171].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        You run around with a machete and eskrima all day?
        Dan; It's pronounced "Mascara". I would think that if anyone would know that...it would be you.

        Bada Bing!
        Signature
        One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

        "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8874206].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

        You run around with a machete and eskrima all day?
        I used to have an awesome set of sticks. Don't know what ever happened to them. They disappeared for some unknown reason. :rolleyes: I know where I put them and my ex swore up and down he never touched them.....................
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8877781].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          I used to have an awesome set of sticks. Don't know what ever happened to them. They disappeared for some unknown reason. :rolleyes: I know where I put them and my ex swore up and down he never touched them.....................
          Perhaps the large sticks made him feel insecure? :p

          Ugh, seriously I know the feeling though.
          Lost a good bokken to an Ex.
          Why do they take things, when they don't actually want them?
          I'll never understand some people.
          Signature

          The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

          ...A tachyon enters a bar.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8878543].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

    Until recently, I barely ever heard about Krav Maga, fighting techniques developed in Israel. Now I seeing references to it almost everywhere I look. First it is blonde female Russian Israeli army veterans serving as bodyguards for business moguls in Vancouver. Now it is Krav Maga lessons everywhere. What's going on?
    It's just a flavor of martial art. Something new.

    For a decade it was Kung Fu, then it as Ninja training (whatever that is), then it's MMA, Ju Jitsu, Aikido, .....it's whatever is new and sounds different.

    And there are plenty of martial arts instructors that will advertise that they are teaching you whatever "style" is in the news.

    I'm surprised there isn't a "Martial art that uses the new and deadly art of Quantum Physics to squash any opponent."
    Signature
    One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

    "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8871218].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      <snip>
      I'm surprised there isn't a "Martial art that uses the new and deadly art of Quantum Physics to squash any opponent."
      I like it!

      UPDATE: Well, what do you know...
      BMV Quantum Subliminal CD Mixed Martial Arts MMA...BMV Quantum Subliminal CD Mixed Martial Arts MMA... (not an affiliate link)
      Signature

      Project HERE.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8871228].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      <snip>

      I'm surprised there isn't a "Martial art that uses the new and deadly art of Quantum Physics to squash any opponent."
      Quantum Combat

      Quantum combat is based on the behavior of quantum particles in subatomic physics. A Quantum fighter changes moves as soon the opponent seems to be seeing a pattern, just as quantum particles change behavior upon being directly observed. The opponent is lulled into what appears to be the predictable patterns a la newtonian physics, but then the Quantum fighter, like a quantum particle, will do something totally random and unexpected like shine a light in your face, laugh madly and hysterically, or bursting into tears, then utilize the opponent's confusion to do something very violent like a quantum energy burst, such as throw a grenade.

      A long-time physicist wannabe who, to sound clever, strategically throws comments about quantum physics in to conversations with non-physicists (who are less likely to know better) as well as being a mediocre fighter at best, Thunderbird realized that he was the perfect person to develop Quantum Combat. Like this fighting style, quantum physics derives its energy from nothingness.
      Signature

      Project HERE.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8871441].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        Quantum Combat

        Quantum combat is based on the behavior of quantum particles in subatomic physics. A Quantum fighter changes moves as soon the opponent seems to be seeing a pattern, just as quantum particles change behavior upon being directly observed. The opponent is lulled into what appears to be the predictable patterns a la newtonian physics, but then the Quantum fighter, like a quantum particle, will do something totally random and unexpected like shine a light in your face, laugh madly and hysterically, or bursting into tears, then utilize the opponent's confusion to do something very violent like a quantum energy burst, such as throw a grenade.

        A long-time physicist wannabe who, to sound clever, strategically throws comments about quantum physics in to conversations with non-physicists (who are less likely to know better) as well as being a mediocre fighter at best, Thunderbird realized that he was the perfect person to develop Quantum Combat. Like this fighting style, quantum physics derives its energy from nothingness.
        I think that this post was pretty brilliantly done.

        The part I bolded? With a tad different language, it's not bad advice.
        Signature
        One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

        "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8873492].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Krav Maga and the other "military commando" systems are the AK-47s
    of the martial art world: Simple enough that almost anyone can learn
    to use it with only a little work, and reliable under most circumstances
    they they are likely to face.

    That being said, the latest popular combination of cat scratches,
    eye gouges, and elbow strikes executed along with terrible attempts
    at drunken hippo jujutsu is never going to be the first choice of the true
    professional, who will always choose a martial art that is more akin
    to the KAC M110, XM25, HKM320, MRAD variants,
    or at least the AA-12, etc.

    More difficult to learn to use and to maintain, but far superior to
    the public's "tough guy" systems that become popular through clever
    sales copy and silly claims of origin.


    ...All of that being said, whenever an uninvited person wanders into
    our building, the senior students enjoy referring them to various
    Taekwondo McDojo or Krav Maga studios. :p
    Signature

    The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

    ...A tachyon enters a bar.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8872376].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    I learned South Chicago Tire Iron Fighting as a young man. It has stood me in good stead for as long as I have lived.

    Ken; I'm going to let you in on a little secret about the martial arts.

    The vast majority of adults never get into a fight. I've been in two, my entire adult life. And I could have easily avoided both.

    I think the best training for self defense is how to not get into the situation where fighting is needed, and how to diffuse anger.

    I still practice my martial art. But it's because it's fascinating to me. I can't imagine ever using it in a self defense situation.
    Signature
    One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

    "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8873522].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      Gee, I didn't know that.
      Ken; I wasn't really directing it at you. I was talking in general. Although, I could have made that clear.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8874138].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    I learned South Chicago Tire Iron Fighting as a young man. It has stood me in good stead for as long as I have lived.

    Reminds me of the day I learned what "self-defense" really is.

    A buddy of mine in high school was the real nerdy, passive type, and
    often got picked on, especially on the way to the bus stop.
    One day I escorted him, and when they came to push him around,
    I tore into them.

    Now, my karate/judo instructor at the time had just spent 20 years
    as infantry in the US Marines. When I got something wrong
    in my technique, he hit me with a stick. Hard. This was also less
    than 6 months from my first pro fight as a boxer.

    So when I say that I "tore into them" it means that I was expelled
    and put up on assault charges on four of them, haha

    Still, when I met up with him at the movies a couple of weeks
    later, where young troublemakers in our small town hung around,
    I noticed that nobody was going near him and, being a 17-year
    old I was looking for some praise for my ego, and I asked him,
    "Hey, I bet you're glad I took care of those guys for you, huh?"

    He shook his head, saying that they were even worse when
    his big protector wasn't around anymore. Then he opened
    his backpack and showed me a brick... Not a little brick,
    a half a freaking cinderblock!

    Satori.

    He said that they jumped him one day and he started swinging
    that around... I'm I'm pretty sure that is the last time anyone
    anywhere ever attempted to pick on Joey.
    Signature

    The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

    ...A tachyon enters a bar.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8874491].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      He shook his head, saying that they were even worse when
      his big protector wasn't around anymore. Then he opened
      his backpack and showed me a brick... Not a little brick,
      a half a freaking cinderblock!
      Bullies don't pick on fighters. No matter the size. And I don't even think it matters who wins. A fighter that loses, is still a fighter.

      When I was in High School, there was a kid that everyone called "Duck"
      He was small, had bucked teeth, and talked with a sort of lisp. A nice kid, but easy to pick on.

      Two guys were trying to take his lunch money one day (I'm telling this second hand. I wasn't there), and he wasn't going to give it to them. One of the guys beat him up pretty bad, and took the money. Nobody went to jail, no police were called.

      He was in one of my classes, and I saw he was bruised pretty badly. He was walking in the hall, and the other kid (that beat him up) was walking the other way. Duck jumped up, and hit in the face. Duck started screaming (I can't remember what. This I did see). Duck kept hitting him, and screaming.

      The other kid pushed him off, and that was that. But nobody picked on Duck again in high school.

      And nobody made fun of his lisp either.

      Good for him.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8874827].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        When I was in High School, there was a kid that everyone called "Duck"
        He was small, had bucked teeth, and talked with a sort of lisp. A nice kid, but easy to pick on.

        Good for him.
        Man, great memories, yeah, good for the Mighty Duck! haha

        Reminds me of another one, Jr. High... Kid was bullied every day,
        and then one day the tough guy crossed the line. The "victim" was
        doing his homework on the bus, and the bully grabbed it, crumpled
        it up, and threw it out the window before laughing on his way to
        his seat in the back.

        He never made it. The little guy had this look of absolute rage,
        screaming as he ran and pushed his tormentor. Of course, there
        was no way he could know that the back door of the bus was
        being held shut by one of those little bungee cords that
        soccer moms think are so great.

        I think the bus was going about 35 miles per hour as Mr. Bully
        flew out of it, completing his transformation to the new laughing stock
        while little "Mr. Loco" became the new Hero.

        Anyone is capable of violence, pushed too far, too often.
        Signature

        The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

        ...A tachyon enters a bar.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8876502].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Practicing Kravmaga is perhaps a good way to learn about self defense. I support it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8874627].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    A lot of martial arts styles can be effective. Isn't a bit like guitar vs cello? Jazz vs classical? Doesn't it largely depend on who's playing the music? Sometimes a choice is largely based on who's instructing. My 3-year-old son totally enjoys learning Brazilian jiu jitsu in class with other 3 and 4-year-olds. They're exceptionally nice instructors at the BJJ/MMA gym where he takes class, very effective at teaching small kids with a down-to-earth, practical approach and lots of humor.
    Signature

    Project HERE.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8874859].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author daftdog
      I've been training krav maga for a while now and mixed together with boxing it makes a lethal combination! I taught my girl several moves and made her practice until she does it by reflex when needed, now I keep my distance when arguing....

      Though more on topic it's a great thing to do if you travel a lot or find that trouble follows you around. Not only are you learning how to use your body as a weapon but any objects that are within reach if the shit hits the fan and you learn that there are hundreds of spots on the body that can be used to give someone a shock or seriously hurt them.

      .....and of course it is a great exercise to do a few times a week....
      Signature
      MMO Product Reviews, Bonus Products and Marketing News!!
      The Wolf of Online Marketing
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8876443].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      A lot of martial arts styles can be effective. Isn't a bit like guitar vs cello? Jazz vs classical? Doesn't it largely depend on who's playing the music? Sometimes a choice is largely based on who's instructing. My 3-year-old son totally enjoys learning Brazilian jiu jitsu in class with other 3 and 4-year-olds. They're exceptionally nice instructors at the BJJ/MMA gym where he takes class, very effective at teaching small kids with a down-to-earth, practical approach and lots of humor.
      I think it's the instructor.

      Some instructors mostly teach kids, and they love it.
      Some instructors are great teachers, some are good martial artists.
      And many are just bad.

      My first instructor was a very accomplished fighter, and not a very nice man. There were no kids. You had to be 18 to join. The first month, 90% quit. It was brutal training. Low stances held until you felt like crying. I've heard that ballet is hard like that.
      Punching until your shoulders felt like they were on fire. My thighs ached for 6 months. Every day.....2 or 3 hours of stance work, basic punches and kicks, and a few forms (katas).

      We didn't spar for a year. And then just pre-arranged patterns. Still, more stance work, endless forms, and a little sparring.

      In my opinion, he was a mediocre instructor. Questions were met with arrogance, or a 'demonstration" that left bruises.

      I stayed with him 8 years, then moved on to a different style.

      Why did I put up with it?

      The first time i saw him, he was walking across the hardwood floor. I swear, his feet didn't touch the floor. I know they really did, but his legs were so strong, there was no effort. It was like gliding. His power was incredible.

      On the first day, I made the mistake of asking him about "internal power". I saw several of the students roll their eyes, and I figured I said something stupid. He laid the palm of his right hand on my shoulder, and shoot...very slightly. Some people might have missed it. I dropped to the floor, and my shoulder felt like it was on fire.

      I staggered to my feet. Nobody was laughing.

      I said "How long until I can do that?"

      He said "Ten years, three hours a day". I took him at his word. I had to know. Again, I stuck it out for eight years, and then switched to a different style of fighting.

      I have a friend that has two very successful Karate studios. He's enormously talented, and high ranking in Korean Karate. He loves teaching kids, and is great with them. But he's a very serious martial artist, and has an advanced adult class, that's impressive. He's 61 and looks 45.
      It's weird. His fighting is very linear. Mine is full of short circles.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8876833].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        In my opinion, he was a mediocre instructor. Questions were met with arrogance, or a 'demonstration" that left bruises.

        Wow, he must have really liked you, and had high hopes!

        I remember fondly how my peers and I used to literally
        get into real fights about who got to be the "victim" for
        the next technique, because if you could focus through
        the fear and pain of what was happening, you got to
        see the details of what Sensei was doing, and to actually
        feel the way the technique was supposed to be executed.
        Everyone else just had to watch, and hope that some
        day he might demonstrate it again.

        In our dojo, very little speaking is permitted. Beginners
        might get away with asking questions, but the answers are
        always physically, because we live in a physical world
        where things affect us physically, and martial arts are
        a physical expression.

        Many people have come in over the years thinking that they
        were going to pay money so that they would be taught some new
        skill, but that's not the case at all. It is not up to
        the instructor to teach, only to demonstrate the knowledge.
        It is up to the student to learn, and if you miss out on
        something it is your own fault.

        It isn't arrogance, so much as cutting you off the teat,
        forcing you to start walking the Path on your own. You
        are given the model, but it is up to you to craft
        the full-sized statue, and a lot of that is going to
        mean "stealing" secrets and finding answers to your
        own questions, a very important part of growth.



        ...I don't know if that was the case with you Claude,
        there are certainly enough A-holes with over-inflated egos
        in the world of martial arts, and he could have easily
        been one of them. Many people get to a certain point
        and decide they have "made it", especially if they have
        students that think they walk on water.

        But when I first read your post, that was the impression
        that I got, so I thought I would share the perspective
        with you, take it or leave it-- or correct it.
        Signature

        The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

        ...A tachyon enters a bar.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8877719].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          Wow, he must have really liked you, and had high hopes!

          I remember fondly how my peers and I used to literally
          get into real fights about who got to be the "victim" for
          the next technique, because if you could focus through
          the fear and pain of what was happening, you got to
          see the details of what Sensei was doing, and to actually
          feel the way the technique was supposed to be executed.
          Everyone else just had to watch, and hope that some
          day he might demonstrate it again.
          He didn't dislike me. But once, he introduced me at a demonstration as "He took out three men in three seconds. And he's not one of my best students"

          He was very demanding, and intimidating. But later, I found that that's just the way he taught. And the way he learned. And I sure worked a lot harder than if he would have been nice. He even told us once that "Wanting to be good enough to kick my ass" was a worthy motivation. At the time, I didn't get it. But it was his way of motivating us to work harder. It worked.

          We learned not to ask how a technique worked in a form. At the time, I thought it was because we should ask questions like that. Now I believe, it's because he sometimes didn't know the answer. He was very fast, unbelievably powerful, and his techniques were awe inspiring. but the techniques weren't taken out of our forms. Karate is different. The techniques are more obvious. I would literally learn a form, and have no practical applications taken from it, at all. Not always, but often.


          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          Many people have come in over the years thinking that they
          were going to pay money so that they would be taught some new
          skill, but that's not the case at all. It is not up to
          the instructor to teach, only to demonstrate the knowledge.
          It is up to the student to learn, and if you miss out on
          something it is your own fault.
          I agree completely. The student has to figure out what's being taught, or they will never internalize the meaning. I was already with my second instructor, before I learned that.

          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          It isn't arrogance, so much as cutting you off the teat,
          forcing you to start walking the Path on your own. You
          are given the model, but it is up to you to craft
          the full-sized statue, and a lot of that is going to
          mean "stealing" secrets and finding answers to your
          own questions, a very important part of growth.
          "Arrogance" may have been a misleading word. Impatience may be better. But here was a typical exchange;
          Me "So, when you use this, are you standing beside the opponent, facing him...or are you maneuvering behind the opponent?"
          Him "So, you think you know more than me? Do you want me to show you?"
          Me "No. I got it".



          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          ...I don't know if that was the case with you Claude,
          there are certainly enough A-holes with over-inflated egos
          in the world of martial arts, and he could have easily
          been one of them. Many people get to a certain point
          and decide they have "made it", especially if they have
          students that think they walk on water.

          But when I first read your post, that was the impression
          that I got, so I thought I would share the perspective
          with you, take it or leave it-- or correct it.
          I don't think it was ego. I think he just thought that the students shouldn't ask questions. I didn't mind the strictness. In fact, I valued it highly. The training was top notch. But there is a difference between forcing a student to put it together for themselves....and not knowing an answer.

          The reason I say this, is because of my second instructor. Also a no nonsense guy. Also strict. But after the hard training, if you said "I think this move is for this use. Am I right?" You would likely hear "No. Here, let me show you" and you would get the real meaning. And it was often not what you would expect. And some times it was frightening.
          And, with this instructor, you wanted to be on the receiving end. Often the strike wouldn't be obvious. Or the exact spot struck would not be obvious.
          But if you were hit, you would know what the movement meant.

          My second instructor told us that he wasn't taught like that. That he had to wait years before he would learn what a movement was really for. But he just didn't think holding back was useful. And he only taught like that to the advanced class.

          I showed my second instructor a few forms, from my first instructor. (He had trained in a similar style earlier in his life) And he would tell me what some of the movements were really used for. It was then, that I thought that my first instructor just didn't know.
          But it could also be, that I wasn't ready for that kind of training. I don't know.

          Some Kung Fu forms are passed on, and get absorbed by instructors without full information. And some of my earlier forms were mostly power building foundational forms.

          One thing my second instructor told me that I keep in mind "The movement will teach you how to do it." Meaning, that practice enough and you become amazingly efficient in your movements. I found that to be true.
          Signature
          One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

          "Be kind. For everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".....Ian Maclaren
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8878874].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author peterj
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            ......

            Some Kung Fu forms are passed on, and get absorbed by instructors without full information

            .....
            Something similar happened with Tai Chi, when Yang Cheng Fu changed the form to make it more accessible to the general public so as to promote it's health benefits.

            As the decades passed Tai Chi became known as that slow moving dance thing.

            It is in fact one of the most brutal fighting arts around.

            The fight in the vid starts at around 56 sec in.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8879882].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author reqchri
    I've seen Krav Maga things on Youtube. That's really brutal but will do effective defense by damaging the opponents. I've also seen full body contact duel between krav maga and wing chun (if you've seen "IP man" you will understand). that's totally awesome. The way the fighter punches, kick, etc. I think I wanna learn this for positive purpose.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8877992].message }}

Trending Topics