A question about "etc" and punctuation

12 years ago

Doesn't bother me when someone else makes that mistake, and a lot of people do. I wouldn't want to make that mistake though, because I like to think I'm a bit of a wordsmith, but I wouldn't say it would bother me. I'd just say to myself, "claude damn it" and move on to my next mistake.

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Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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Frank Donovan 12 years ago

Ken, as it's an abbreviation of et cetera, I think anything other than etc. looks wrong, but it doesn't especially bother me.

And the same goes for starting sentences with And.

The question about punctuation within quotation marks is slightly more complicated, and also varies a little between American and British usage. If what you're writing is important, here's a useful guide:

APA Style Blog: Punctuating Around Quotation Marks

Frank
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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I am so used to seeing ect that I catch myself doing it.

I know it is wrong, to me reading it when it's proper feels wrong.

Does it bother you? I am writing something important and i am wondering
if I should do it properly ... even if it feels wrong.

Which way do you do it?

-- Edit a moment later.

While I am on the subject ( sorta ) ...

Am I correct, It is never proper to end a sentence and start a new one with the word "And."

If I am correct what is the proper way?

and one more ... does punctuation go inside or out side of quotations.

Well, just avoid it then -- use "and so on" or some such instead.

It is technically improper to start a sentence with a connector (and, but,...and so on:rolleyes:

), but you can use a dash instead of a period - and that is a correct alternative. Or you can just use it as a stylish diversion from the correct form. But make sure the line started with the connector is exceptionally emphatic.

As far as quotes - I go old school on the punctuation. If the sentence is a stand alone quote, the punctuation is before the quotation mark. If it's part of a larger sentence, it is after the quotation marks.
"It's supposed to snow again." She sounded disgusted when she said "it's supposed to snow again".

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Ken, I see you added more after I answered. The language rules are changing. Many language experts things it's OK to start a sentence with a conjunction like "and" or "but" now. It's considered a stylistic preference and is no longer strictly a grammar question.

The old rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition is debatable now, too. One of these days I'll have to look up "preposition" to see what it is.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Ken, I see you added more after I answered. The language rules are changing. Many language experts things it's OK to start a sentence with a conjunction like "and" or "but" now. It's considered a stylistic preference and is no longer strictly a grammar question.

The old rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition is debatable now, too. One of these days I'll have to look up "preposition" to see what it is.

LOL --
A preposition is time/spatial info -- for me it's the position that I sit down in just before I get comfy to type (pre-position, I think it's supposed to be spelled, but guess we got sloppy on this one, too, huh?)

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Sal
When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
Beyond the Path

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Frank Donovan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

The old rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition is debatable now, too. One of these days I'll have to look up "preposition" to see what it is.

Here's a chap who knew how to handle a preposition:

"Why did you bring that book that I didn't want to be read to out of up for?"
H.L. Mencken

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revenue4u

12 years ago

With editing tools like spell/grammar checkers available today, it is hard to comprehend how mistakes pass through the filters undetected and end up in the finished product.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by revenue4u

With editing tools like spell/grammar checkers available today, it is hard to comprehend how mistakes pass through the filters undetected and end up in the finished product.

Claude - Blah, blah, blah, etc, blah, blah, blah

Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc!

Shane

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whateverpedia 12 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc!

Shane

Lucky there are no Punctuation Police around.

Should read:

Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc! :p :rolleyes:

Getting serious for a minute though, one of my pet peeves is people who pronounce it "EK Setera", rather than "ET Setera", or the even more correct "AY Setera".

Yeah, I know, life is tough for us pedants.
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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by revenue4u

With editing tools like spell/grammar checkers available today, it is hard to comprehend how mistakes pass through the filters undetected and end up in the finished product.

I agree apart from the fact they're not flawless and as the English language is notorious in many ways, they do get it wrong quite often.

I've often marvelled at the difficulty in explaining certain aspects of it. For example do I have a row of vegetables or am I having a row with the wife? I could wear a bow tie or bow to the emperor. Do you read a book or have you read it? Lie down and tell a lie. I got the mail delivered and the postman was male and then there's to, too and two and lots of others, like being on a plane in a plain shirt.

In fact while I'm on "Row". I can row my boat, have a row of vegetables, row with the missus and have Salmon Roe for dinner.

I can see how a spell check might struggle in some cases. Granted though, the human should spot it if their vocabulary is good enough.

Funny old language.

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Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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DJL 12 years ago

End a sentence with a preposition?
That is something up with which I will not put!
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laurencewins

12 years ago

Punctuation inside the question marks.

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Cheers, Laurence.
Writer/Editor/Proofreader.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Lucky there are no Punctuation Police around.

Should read:

Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc! :p :rolleyes:

Getting serious for a minute though, one of my pet peeves is people who pronounce it "EK Setera", rather than "ET Setera", or the even more correct "AY Setera".

Yeah, I know, life is tough for us pedants.

Et cetera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Darnit, etc. :rolleyes:

Shane