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Strength training or cardio?

by barbling
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What's your favorite way to maintain fitness?

Me, I much prefer becoming one with the iron (ie, strength training). Cardio does NOT flap my earlobes at all.
  • Profile picture of the author The Content Professional
    I think they both have their place if done correctly.

    The problem is, most people think "cardio" means hours on the treadmill and "weightlifting" means looking like Arnold.

    I'm somewhat of a gym rat but I try to balance getting stronger with maintaining my endurance and agility with basketball, swimming, and fast paced runs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      An hour of strength training three times a week, will give you cardio benefits.

      When I did serious Kung Fu training, my cardio was off the charts, but I never did any cardio training. Two hours a day of any kind of training, will give you endurance.
      The difference is that just cardio training doesn't make you stronger, and least not after your muscles adapt to the slightly increased load.

      And when I hear someone say "weight training", I want to hear more about it. Dancing with 3 pound weights isn't the same as working out in a serious gym.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Content Professional
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        An hour of strength training three times a week, will give you cardio benefits.

        When I did serious Kung Fu training, my cardio was off the charts, but I never did any cardio training. Two hours a day of any kind of training, will give you endurance.
        The difference is that just cardio training doesn't make you stronger, and least not after your muscles adapt to the slightly increased load.

        And when I hear someone say "weight training", I want to hear more about it. Dancing with 3 pound weights isn't the same as working out in a serious gym.
        Can't say I agree with any of this.

        Most people in the fitness world would consider martial arts a form of cardio.

        There's a big difference between muscular endurance and cardiovascular endurance. Big lifts aren't going to help you run around a track or up and down a field.

        There are plenty of exercises that promote cardiovascular fitness and are also known to build strength. Swimming is a good example. That being said, they're not mutually exclusive so I'm not sure why there's a need to choose when you can simply supplement one with the other.

        As for an example of my weight training, a variation of my leg day might include something like barbell squats, barbell lunges, leg curls, hip abductions, along with a few exercises that target my core. The next leg day would feature barbell deadlifts, leg press, calf raises either in the squat rack or leg press, jumping dumbell lunges, and barbell step-ups, plus a couple different core movements sprinkled throughout. I won't get into exact reps and sets since that is a little much to write out and tends to vary. I've been experimenting with a called 5/3/1 recently, though I only use it as a guide on my big lifts and implement more supplemental exercises than recommended.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

          Can't say I agree with any of this.

          Most people in the fitness world would consider martial arts a form of cardio.

          There's a big difference between muscular endurance and cardiovascular endurance. Big lifts aren't going to help you run around a track or up and down a field.

          There are plenty of exercises that promote cardiovascular fitness and are also known to build strength. Swimming is a good example. That being said, they're not mutually exclusive so I'm not sure why there's a need to choose when you can simply supplement one with the other.

          As for an example of my weight training, a variation of my leg day might include something like barbell squats, barbell lunges, leg curls, hip abductions, along with a few exercises that target my core. The next leg day would feature barbell deadlifts, leg press, calf raises either in the squat rack or leg press, jumping dumbell lunges, and barbell step-ups, plus a couple different core movements sprinkled throughout. I won't get into exact reps and sets since that is a little much to write out and tends to vary. I've been experimenting with a called 5/3/1 recently, though I only use it as a guide on my big lifts and implement more supplemental exercises than recommended.

          It's the difference in experience and how we define our terms.

          Amazingly, even though you disagreed with everything I said, I agreed with everything you said.

          What I define as martial arts training is going to be way different than what you think of as cardio training...

          You are far more experienced than I am in weight training, and I'm far more experienced in my form of martial arts training. But I've seen karate (and other martial arts ) classes that could be considered cardio training. In fact most classes I've witnessed are little else.
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            But I've seen karate (and other martial arts ) classes that could be considered cardio training. In fact most classes I've witnessed are little else.
            I took two semesters of judo in college from the US Olympic coach and that workout was exhausting. As tough a cardio workout as basketball practice in high school which was just about all cardio. It suprised me completely.

            These days I get into different stretches of either weight training or running. I love them both but find that after 6 to 8 months of one I feel like doing the other. Interestingly enough I have probably more endurance in running and more strength in lifting weights now than I have at any time in my life. I love pushing myself physically.
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          • Profile picture of the author The Content Professional
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

            It's the difference in experience and how we define our terms.

            Amazingly, even though you disagreed with everything I said, I agreed with everything you said.

            What I define as martial arts training is going to be way different than what you think of as cardio training...

            You are far more experienced than I am in weight training, and I'm far more experienced in my form of martial arts training. But I've seen karate (and other martial arts ) classes that could be considered cardio training. In fact most classes I've witnessed are little else.
            I'm not trying to say martial arts is just cardio. It's a pretty versatile total body workout if you're training seriously.

            But whether it's a basic "kickboxing for fitness" class or a BJJ gym that spars daily, you're going to see plenty of cardio elements. I don't think it can be compared to simply lifting heavy weights in terms of the benefits you'll see in that area.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
          Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

          Big lifts aren't going to help you run around a track or up and down a field.
          Try telling that to sprinters.
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          • Profile picture of the author The Content Professional
            Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

            Try telling that to sprinters.
            :confused:

            Care to point out some notable sprinters or other track athletes who rely solely on weightlifting for their training?

            Perhaps if you read back through Claude's post and my complete reply, you'll realize that you're taking my words out of context
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

              :confused:

              Care to point out some notable sprinters or other track athletes who rely solely on weightlifting for their training?

              Perhaps if you read back through Claude's post and my complete reply, you'll realize that you're taking my words out of context
              We have been trying to get Riffle under control for quite some time now. You seem to have gone further than most.

              Don't believe him about sprinting. I've seen Riffle in person. His legs are so short that he has to hem up his Boxers, so they don't drag on the ground.

              What Riffle calls "sprinting", we would call "Rolling down a hill".
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

              There's a big difference between muscular endurance and cardiovascular endurance. Big lifts aren't going to help you run around a track or up and down a field.
              Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

              :confused:

              Care to point out some notable sprinters or other track athletes who rely solely on weightlifting for their training?

              You might want to save the snark for a time when you know what you're talking about.

              Perhaps if you read back through Claude's post and my complete reply, you'll realize that you're taking my words out of context
              Care to point out where I stated sprinters rely solely on weightlifting?

              As for "out of context," you stated, "Big lifts aren't going to help you run around a track or up and down a field."

              Your statement was false and I'd say my response was completely in context. Many sprinters rely heavily on weight training. Here, I'll start your research for you:

              Train Like an Olympic Sprinter | Men's Fitness
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              • Profile picture of the author The Content Professional
                Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                Care to point out where I stated sprinters rely solely on weightlifting?

                As for "out of context," you stated, "Big lifts aren't going to help you run around a track or up and down a field."

                Your statement was false and I'd say my response was completely in context. Many sprinters rely heavily on weight training. Here, I'll start your research for you:

                Train Like an Olympic Sprinter | Men's Fitness
                :rolleyes:

                I guess I'm being trolled as some kind of new guy hazing. The part where I mention looking at the context and then you just repeat the same sentence as context for itself gave you away but I'll play along

                Notice where I say:

                There's a big difference between muscular endurance and cardiovascular endurance.
                Which was in response to Claude's opinions on cardio not being needed.

                I then go on to reiterate my point about both cardio and strength training being important (you'll notice I give the same opinion in the post before).

                All of these things make up what is called "context".

                Obviously if I had known that one sentence would be picked from an entire conversation and expected to stand on it's own semantically, I could have worded it differently. But in the "context" of the conversation, I think it's pretty clear that I'm saying it doesn't help them "run around a track" in the form of cardiovascular endurance.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

                  :rolleyes:
                  Obviously if I had known that one sentence would be picked from an entire conversation and expected to stand on it's own semantically, I could have worded it differently. But in the "context" of the conversation, I think it's pretty clear that I'm saying it doesn't help them "run around a track" in the form of cardiovascular endurance.
                  Young guy who won't tell us his name;

                  You have survived Riffle. Or should I say "Riffle's first volley". You are going to go through a gauntlet of responses, ranging from complete agreement to anger over anything you say...to incomprehensible statements that have nothing to do with any posts that came before. And it will take you a little time to recognize where these are going to come from.

                  You are going through the initial "testing out process".

                  By your responses, and posts...we are looking to see if you are;
                  Witty enough to trade jabs with.
                  Knowledgeable enough to take seriously.
                  A complete flake
                  An opinionated complete flake
                  A poser trying to look smarter than you are.
                  A crybaby (I know something about this)
                  A bigot, racist, sexist, whore monger (Or Rifflist, for short)

                  So far, you are showing yourself to not be a fool, and you can take a jab.
                  But like any new kid in town, there is a feeling out process.....this feeling out process is done metaphorically. It used to be done by Dan Riffle, but the complaints and lawsuits became a problem.

                  One tip; Anything that can be taken two ways...will be. And there is no "context" here. Every sentence has to stand on it's own. At least, if you want to be taken seriously.

                  And for God's sake! Don't anger Sal! The last guy that crossed her path was found in a ditch, with lipstick on his collar, and two broken legs. Heck, it wasn't a week ago, that I engaged Sal in debate, and I was in the hospital for three days. And then I had to make up a BS story, just to try to feel my macho again. Weight training won't prepare you for Sal. Running sprints may come in handy though.

                  Welcome to the Forum.
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                • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  An hour of strength training three times a week, will give you cardio benefits.
                  Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

                  Can't say I agree with any of this.

                  Most people in the fitness world would consider martial arts a form of cardio.

                  There's a big difference between muscular endurance and cardiovascular endurance. Big lifts aren't going to help you run around a track or up and down a field.

                  There are plenty of exercises that promote cardiovascular fitness and are also known to build strength. Swimming is a good example. That being said, they're not mutually exclusive so I'm not sure why there's a need to choose when you can simply supplement one with the other.

                  As for an example of my weight training, a variation of my leg day might include something like barbell squats, barbell lunges, leg curls, hip abductions, along with a few exercises that target my core. The next leg day would feature barbell deadlifts, leg press, calf raises either in the squat rack or leg press, jumping dumbell lunges, and barbell step-ups, plus a couple different core movements sprinkled throughout. I won't get into exact reps and sets since that is a little much to write out and tends to vary. I've been experimenting with a called 5/3/1 recently, though I only use it as a guide on my big lifts and implement more supplemental exercises than recommended.
                  Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

                  I'm not trying to say martial arts is just cardio. It's a pretty versatile total body workout if you're training seriously.

                  But whether it's a basic "kickboxing for fitness" class or a BJJ gym that spars daily, you're going to see plenty of cardio elements. I don't think it can be compared to simply lifting heavy weights in terms of the benefits you'll see in that area.
                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  Try telling that to sprinters.
                  Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

                  :confused:

                  Care to point out some notable sprinters or other track athletes who rely solely on weightlifting for their training?

                  Perhaps if you read back through Claude's post and my complete reply, you'll realize that you're taking my words out of context
                  Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                  Care to point out where I stated sprinters rely solely on weightlifting?

                  As for "out of context," you stated, "Big lifts aren't going to help you run around a track or up and down a field."

                  Your statement was false and I'd say my response was completely in context. Many sprinters rely heavily on weight training. Here, I'll start your research for you:

                  Train Like an Olympic Sprinter | Men's Fitness
                  Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

                  :rolleyes:

                  I guess I'm being trolled as some kind of new guy hazing. The part where I mention looking at the context and then you just repeat the same sentence as context for itself gave you away but I'll play along

                  Notice where I say:



                  Which was in response to Claude's opinions on cardio not being needed.

                  I then go on to reiterate my point about both cardio and strength training being important (you'll notice I give the same opinion in the post before).

                  All of these things make up what is called "context".

                  Obviously if I had known that one sentence would be picked from an entire conversation and expected to stand on it's own semantically, I could have worded it differently. But in the "context" of the conversation, I think it's pretty clear that I'm saying it doesn't help them "run around a track" in the form of cardiovascular endurance.
                  First, Claude says strength training has an added cardio benefit, which it does. You prance in and disagree with everything Claude says. (Normally, this would instantly make me like you.) Then you state "big lifts" aren't going to help in track or other sports in general. Whether taken at face value or as part of a discussion of cardiovascular endurance, the statement is incorrect.

                  I merely pointed out the flaw by relating your statement to sprinters, a specific type of athlete in a sport in which cardiovascular endurance is considered highly valuable. Not only does weight training allow sprinters to run fast by allowing more force, it trains their cardiovascular system to efficiently handle their quick bursts of movement. Thus, I disagree with your later comment that weight training doesn't help them with cardiovascular endurance.

                  By the way, thanks for illustrating what "context" means. Would you mind defining "semantically" for me?

                  Actually, I'm just kidding about that last part. We don't really talk about human sexuality here. At least, not when Claude's in the room.
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                  • Profile picture of the author The Content Professional
                    Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

                    First, Claude says strength training has an added cardio benefit, which it does. You prance in and disagree with everything Claude says. (Normally, this would instantly make me like you.) Then you state "big lifts" aren't going to help in track or other sports in general. Whether taken at face value or as part of a discussion of cardiovascular endurance, the statement is incorrect.

                    I merely pointed out the flaw by relating your statement to sprinters, a specific type of athlete in a sport in which cardiovascular endurance is considered highly valuable. Not only does weight training allow sprinters to run fast by allowing more force, it trains their cardiovascular system to efficiently handle their quick bursts of movement. Thus, I disagree with your later comment that weight training doesn't help them with cardiovascular endurance.

                    By the way, thanks for illustrating what "context" means. Would you mind defining "semantically" for me?

                    Actually, I'm just kidding about that last part. We don't really talk about human sexuality here. At least, not when Claude's in the room.
                    No need to thank me, Dan. Seeing you learn and grow is reward enough -- though I've never turned down a gift basket, if you follow me

                    As for your question:

                    se·man·tics [si-man-tiks]: the meaning, or an interpretation of the meaning, of a word, sign, sentence, etc.

                    There's even a really fitting example attached: Let's not argue about semantics.

                    Anyways, the "big lifts", e.g., squats, deadlifts, and bench press (some may argue the clean & press, etc. but that's neither here nor there) done with a focus on building strength will be completed with a healthy amount of rest in between, thus preventing heart rate from every reaching a state elevated enough to have anything more than an extremely negligible effect on cardiovascular conditioning -- certainly not enough to build a track career around.

                    It's like saying you wear skirts because it makes your legs tan when really there are much more efficient ways of getting tan legs -- and we all know you actually wear them because it makes you feel sexy :rolleyes:

                    That's not to say weightlifting has NO effect, obviously. You'll see more noticeable benefits with a more fast paced circuit or higher rep style workout -- but in doing so, you're sacrificing strength gains. As Claude pointed out previously, not all weight training was created equally.

                    The main reason sprinters are going to do "big lifts" with a focus on strength training is to increase the efficiency and explosiveness of their movements, allowing them to get off the block more quickly and put more force behind each step.

                    In conclusion, this argument is really silly since I think everyone would benefit from an extremely balanced exercise regime and I've never claimed anything different. I simply disagreed where Claude seemed to be discrediting cardio and advocating making pure strength training your sole focus.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                      Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

                      No need to thank me, Dan. Seeing you learn and grow is reward enough -- though I've never turned down a gift basket, if you follow me
                      Dan loves learning. In between play sessions. He might have been playing then too.

                      It's like saying you wear skirts because it makes your legs tan when really there are much more efficient ways of getting tan legs -- and we all know you actually wear them because it makes you feel sexy :rolleyes:
                      Claude and Dan wear skirts to get their legs tanned. You've not been here long enough to understand protocol.

                      Claude can fly too.

                      It's important to stress these things before you go up against them.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
                        I'm puzzled how everything can be blanketed under "strength training".

                        Tire flipping and sled dragging are two such examples which constitute "strength training" and both will have your lungs working like nothing else.

                        Training can be composed of tightly knitted singles and there's complexes too so it's not about "high rep" neither...

                        It's not Strength Training VS Cardio. It's subjective. It's about what physical task you're actually performing.

                        Originally Posted by The Content Professional

                        Anyways, the "big lifts", e.g., squats, deadlifts, and bench press (some may argue the clean & press, etc. but that's neither here nor there)
                        I think it's probably safe to say Clean and Press is up there with the big lifts, given that it's a Clean > Front Squat and Overhead Press (split stanced in many cases) combined...
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                        • Profile picture of the author The Content Professional
                          Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

                          I think it's probably safe to say Clean and Press is up there with the big lifts, given that it's a Clean > Front Squat and Overhead Press (split stanced in many cases) combined...
                          Oh, definitely. I'm not knocking it at all. Anything after the three I mentioned just tend to be interchangeable depending on the school of thought. Some prefer the clean and snatch over the clean and press, for instance. The 5/3/1 program I mentioned earlier uses the military press as it's fourth main lift.

                          Doesn't mean they're not all beneficial, just wanted to stick with the ones most people can agree on for the sake of this discussion.
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                          • Profile picture of the author discrat
                            I have been Powerlifting since 87' and always expounded the benefits of heavy lifting.

                            As I have gotten older though, I have been switching to Circuit training with much lower weights.

                            To me when you get in your 40s there is no need to keep on trying to pack on Mass.

                            it was fun when I was 24. But at 46 I really just stay away from heavy lifting.

                            That being said I do incorporate Jerk and Cleans as well as some heavy upright rows. But that is about it.

                            The rest is light frenetic weight training ( i.e. circuit training) and this keeps my muscles in good form and gets my Cardio pretty damn good.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                      Originally Posted by The Content Professional View Post

                      blah, blah, blah, gift basket, blah, blah, skirts, blah, blah, sprinters...
                      I get what you're saying. We'll disagree on certain points, such as negligible cardio gains for sprinters. I've watched sprinters train in the gym. The quick burst excercises they do help condition their cardio system for the nuances of their sport. And that's all I'm trying to say.

                      Claude is right that, done correctly, strength training can provide enough cardio for the average person. Training for specification dictates different training protocol. On that, you are correct.

                      And I do look damn sexy in a skirt and don't you forget it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        An hour of strength training three times a week, will give you cardio benefits.

        When I did serious Kung Fu training, my cardio was off the charts, but I never did any cardio training. Two hours a day of any kind of training, will give you endurance.
        The difference is that just cardio training doesn't make you stronger, and least not after your muscles adapt to the slightly increased load.

        And when I hear someone say "weight training", I want to hear more about it. Dancing with 3 pound weights isn't the same as working out in a serious gym.

        Sorry Claude, but I always pictured you as a prancersize kind of guy...

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        • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Sorry Claude, but I always pictured you as a prancersize kind of guy...
          Isn't that what he said? "Kung-fu"? :p

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          • Profile picture of the author TAZ87
            It depends heavily on what you are trying to achieve. Not every Lifter is healthy and not every cardio person(runner) is fit! I will assume you want to look decent and good health. In which case a mixture of both is important. How much cardio depends on your body type. If you are a heavy guy naturally do more cardio if skinny as a twig do less or simply eat more calories(to compensate the cardio you're doing for vascular health). Lifting weights is recommended in all cases.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Sorry Claude, but I always pictured you as a prancersize kind of guy...
          Here's that prancercise video set to an appropriate song "Camel Toe"


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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    I used to exercise like a demon when I was a kid.

    A certified gym rat for some interval of time.

    Elliptical machines are awesome. Great cardiovascular endurance, while minimizing impact on joints and small bones. (Just don't let me catch you slacking off on those. If you're on an elliptical... I want to see you SOARING - WITH YOUR ENTIRE BODY AT FULL SPEED).

    (I also loved to lift weights. Free weights. Machines. You name it. I loved deadlifts and squats. I was really strong haha).

    These days? I hate gyms. Too many germs. And like... People. (I have changed).

    I much prefer to exercise in the wilderness now.

    Nature hikes, fresh air, wildlife > *

    PS:

    And man... Stretching feels sooooo gooood.



    Over and out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    I've recently realized that both strength training and cardiovascular training are important. I used to focus more on just strength training.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I like doing fork lifts, and my heart rate really gets going if they run out of fried chicken in the buffet line.

    So I guess you can say that a combination of lifting and cardio has done wonders for my physique.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I like my rock hunting - does both cardio and strength..working muscle, not show. I can't understand why people not actually pumping up for show get their fitness inside when they could go outside and get it naturally. Each to their own.
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  • Profile picture of the author edusegzy1
    Strength training. Great testing idea
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  • Profile picture of the author TelZilla
    I can't do a lot of different exercises due to a car accident I had when I was a lot younger. Plus I've also developed some pretty bad arthritis over the years. The only thing I've found that has helped, other than pain meds (which I refuse to take), is Tai Chi.

    It isn't easy when you first get started, but you will build strength, flexibility, stamina, etc.

    I highly recommend it.
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  • Profile picture of the author dailycoinsnet
    If I would have to choose only one I would go for strength training. It also gives you the same benefits as cardio workout.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    So you folks are concentrating on one over the other. I think a mix actually is a necessity when conditioning.

    You put the backpack of rocks on your back then hike back to the car with small bursts of speed when you get too close to a rattler.

    Seriously - you have to have the strength to carry your own weight at speeds. Put a 100 lb person on your back and run for 100 yards. If your muscles are built up to handle that weight, it's a hella lot easier running with it, and it jacks your heart less in the process.
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  • Profile picture of the author ErinWalsh
    I do strength training personally. A mix of yoga and pilates, and then some weight lifting.
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