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The Best Way To Win An Argument

by lanfear63
14 replies
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Interesting read! I expect you will want to argue about it!


BBC - Future - The best way to win an argument
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    This is their argument:

    "We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee".
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

      This is their argument:

      "We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee".
      Wow, sorry to hear that Daniel. I'm a Brit living in Texas and that sometimes works the other way round. UK only.

      For you and other Brits, the pertinent bit..

      "Perhaps, they figured, people who have strong political opinions would be more open to other viewpoints, if asked to explain exactly how they thought the policy they were advocating would bring about the effects they claimed it would."

      This can be about any opinion on any subject of course.

      Essentially

      Ask them, instead of them just quoting facts/stats/policys to support their viewpoint, to explain step by step how the implementation of these cited facts/stats/policys etc would actually work by implementation into the scenario to solve it.

      That's when things can come unhinged for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Angle Warrior
    Finally! something I can use when my son with all his 21 years of wisdom decides he's right...
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Good article. It is true that familiarity creates the illusion of understanding.

    WARNING: I am about to talk about my son, 4, again.

    The basic questions that my 4-year-old son asks me every day constantly remind me that I really know squat.


    For example, I've seen the moon more times than I can possibly remember, but my son's insistent question on how the moon was formed led me to research it and it was new to me. He also asks me why people are running and sometimes one can only guess, but it does make me notice such stuff much more than I normally would.

    Here are the kinds of questions that I continuously get from him: How do magnets work? How do batteries produce energy? Is food like batteries for humans? Why don't you know? That is a hard one to answer for me.

    Sometimes I say, it is either a lack of data or having the data but failing to make the connections to know the answer to that question. Then, thinking I have him dazed and confused, he says, "How does a person collect data? How does that work?" It is about processing information, then defining what "information" is. Having a 4-year-old son is like being drilled by a philosophy professor.
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    • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      Good article. It is true that familiarity creates the illusion of understanding.

      WARNING: I am about to talk about my son, 4, again.

      The basic questions that my 4-year-old son asks me every day constantly remind me that I really know squat.


      For example, I've seen the moon more times than I can possibly remember, but my son's insistent question on how the moon was formed led me to research it and it was new to me. He also asks me why people are running and sometimes one can only guess, but it does make me notice such stuff much more than I normally would.

      Here are the kinds of questions that I continuously get from him: How do magnets work? How do batteries produce energy? Is food like batteries for humans? Why don't you know? That is a hard one to answer for me.

      Sometimes I say, it is either a lack of data or having the data but failing to make the connections to know the answer to that question. Then, thinking I have him dazed and confused, he says, "How does a person collect data? How does that work?" It is about processing information, then defining what "information" is. Having a 4-year-old son is like being drilled by a philosophy professor.
      He's going through his Why, Why period, all kids do that. Sometimes you just have to say. Shut up! You cannot answer everything and often they will just continue to say why anyway! They grow out of it! No, you cant have any candy, why? Because I said so!
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

        He's going through his Why, Why period, all kids do that. Sometimes you just have to say. Shut up! You cannot answer everything and often they will just continue to say why anyway! They grow out of it! No, you cant have any candy, why? Because I said so!
        WARNING: About to talk about my 4-year-old son again.

        I often see him with other kids his age and he does seem significantly more inquisitive than most of them. I suspect that it is a trait just like having brown eyes.

        "Because I say so" doesn't work him. Shut up sure backfires with that dude too. I'm not training him to be unquestioningly subservient to authority anyway. The only thing that satisfies his curiosity is a coherent answer. His why's are never anything like why can't I have more candy.

        I have recently managed to convince him to radically improve classroom behavior which was a major issue with him (he's too experimental), but not on the premise of obedience. I did so by explaining that it benefits everyone to have an orderly class and helps advance his knowledge. I also said that simply understanding that concept theoretically is NOT the same as putting it into practice.
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        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          I often see him with other kids his age and he does seem significantly more inquisitive than most of them. I suspect that it is a trait just like having brown eyes.

          "Because I say so" doesn't work him. Shut up sure backfires with that dude too. I'm not training him to be unquestioningly subservient to authority anyway. The only thing that satisfies his curiosity is a coherent answer. His why's are never anything like why can't I have more candy.

          I have recently managed to convince him to radically improve classroom behavior which was a major issue with him (he's too experimental), but not on the premise of obedience. I did so by explaining that it benefits everyone to have an orderly class and helps advance his knowledge and that it simply understanding that concept theoretically is NOT the same as putting it into practice.
          If a coherent answer satisfies him than he's better than a lot of kids around that age. They do move away from the constant questioning though as they learn to read and find things out for themselves because they are genuinely interested. Their interests will specialize. To ask about a lot of things is normal for now. However, it can be annoying to you if it's constant and a symbolic firm hand of ok, that's enough for now and mean it, I don't think is out of order.

          Don't discourage it, just regulate it a bit. Say, well we can have a session of your questions at such and such a time. A routine, structure.

          Of course it all depends if you get annoyed by it at all, your tolerence levels etc. I'm just an outsider looking in.

          A couple of years time he will be typing, "Why Is The Sky Blue" into you tube and have a video explain it too him.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Sometimes you just have to say. Shut up! You cannot answer everything and often they will just continue to say why anyway! They grow out of it!
          Most kids "grow out of it" because they're told to "shut up". Some parents don't want them to grow out of it.

          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          I'm not training him to be unquestioningly subservient to authority anyway. The only thing that satisfies his curiosity is a coherent answer.
          Thank you. Many (other) people wonder why "Johnny Can't Learn", failing to see that the answer is as close as the nearest mirror.
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            [QUOTE=David Beroff;9215696]Most kids "grow out of it" because they're told to "shut up". Some parents don't want them to grow out of it.

            But they will, all kids go through this constant questioning and why, why stage! They stop doing it for the reasons I have outlined above, they learn to look for themselves. Their interests become more focused on certain subjects too.

            If you just say shut up most of the time it may just delay this happening sooner but it will happen. They will get the info in other ways.

            If Mr T-Bird was lying underneath a sink fixing a leak and his kid rushes up and says dad, why is the Earth round would he be expected to just get up, cracking his head along the way and say, just a minute son while I go and get my copy of Britannica. No, but have a time and place for it, don't let the kid dominate them. People thrive on routine and structure in their lives. Kids alike.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          "Because I say so" doesn't work him. Shut up sure backfires with that dude too. I'm not training him to be unquestioningly subservient to authority anyway. The only thing that satisfies his curiosity is a coherent answer. His why's are never anything like why can't I have more candy.
          I think that's beautiful.

          My only concern (if it were my kid) is that he may accept an opinion of mine as a fact. And an established opinion is where learning ends.

          Some of my best memories with my son at a young age (and even as an adult) are intellectual conversations..when I helped him "reason it out" to find the answer on his own.

          Good for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    The article was bang on about shallow knowledge. The thing is the majority rule, and that means the one who actually knows what they are talking about is treated by the majority as the one being wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author MachoMadness

    This is how you win an argument
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by MachoMadness View Post

      Thank You for Smoking - YouTube

      This is how you win an argument
      Everyone should study this video. The structure of "changing the argument into a bulletproof position", is laid out here perfectly.

      I see it in nearly every thread. And when I read "...because of our freedoms"...I usually see this argument structure behind it.

      It also works in selling. When I would get a sales objection that I found difficult to answer...I'd simply change the positioning to something they couldn't argue with. It worked more times than not.

      And a part of me wanted to shake the person and yell "Don't you see what I'm doing?! Think for yourself!"
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  • Profile picture of the author lisahebert
    This is very useful for people like me who always end up surrendering in an argument. At last I have found my best weapon. Thanks for this!
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