The Case for Reparations

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"Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole...

The popular mocking of reparations as a harebrained scheme authored by wild-eyed lefties and intellectually unserious black nationalists is fear masquerading as laughter. Black nationalists have always perceived something unmentionable about America that integrationists dare not acknowledge--that white supremacy is not merely the work of hotheaded demagogues, or a matter of false consciousness, but a force so fundamental to America that it is difficult to imagine the country without it."

This is an excellent thought provoking article that as the title says makes the case for reparations in the US. It goes back to the 1600s but is shaped around the life of Clyde Ross who was born in Mississippi in 1923. It tells of how Ross' father's property was stolen, how his horse was taken when he was 10, how after fighting in ww2 he moved north, how he couldn't get a home mortgage because of his race and how he tried to buy a house by buying through a "contract" which was basically the only way possible then.

The article talks about the great growth of the middle class after the war, but how blacks were excluded from this in large part because of both government and private discriminatory policies.

It's an interesting and enlightening read. Here's a few parts.

"Locked out of the greatest mass-based opportunity for wealth accumulation in American history, African Americans who desired and were able to afford home ownership found themselves consigned to central-city communities where their investments were affected by the "self-fulfilling prophecies" of the FHA appraisers: cut off from sources of new investment[,] their homes and communities deteriorated and lost value in comparison to those homes and communities that FHA appraisers deemed desirable."

In Chicago and across the country, whites looking to achieve the American dream could rely on a legitimate credit system backed by the government. Blacks were herded into the sights of unscrupulous lenders who took them for money and for sport...

The kill was profitable. At the time of his death, Lou Fushanis owned more than 600 properties, many of them in North Lawndale, and his estate was estimated to be worth $3 million. He'd made much of this money by exploiting the frustrated hopes of black migrants like Clyde Ross. During this period, according to one estimate, 85 percent of all black home buyers who bought in Chicago bought on contract. "If anybody who is well established in this business in Chicago doesn't earn $100,000 a year," a contract seller told The Saturday Evening Post in 1962, "he is loafing."

Contract sellers became rich. North Lawndale became a ghetto...

"The two great divisions of society are not the rich and poor, but white and black," John C. Calhoun, South Carolina's senior senator, declared on the Senate floor in 1848. "And all the former, the poor as well as the rich, belong to the upper class, and are respected and treated as equals."

In 1860, the majority of people living in South Carolina and Mississippi, almost half of those living in Georgia, and about one-third of all Southerners were on the wrong side of Calhoun's line. The state with the largest number of enslaved Americans was Virginia, where in certain counties some 70 percent of all people labored in chains. Nearly one-fourth of all white Southerners owned slaves, and upon their backs the economic basis of America--and much of the Atlantic world--was erected. In the seven cotton states, one-third of all white income was derived from slavery. By 1840, cotton produced by slave labor constituted 59 percent of the country's exports...

The wealth accorded America by slavery was not just in what the slaves pulled from the land but in the slaves themselves. "In 1860, slaves as an asset were worth more than all of America's manufacturing, all of the railroads, all of the productive capacity of the United States put together," the Yale historian David W. Blight has noted. "Slaves were the single largest, by far, financial asset of property in the entire American economy."...

America's indispensable working class existed as property beyond the realm of politics, leaving white Americans free to trumpet their love of freedom and democratic values. Assessing antebellum democracy in Virginia, a visitor from England observed that the state's natives "can profess an unbounded love of liberty and of democracy in consequence of the mass of the people, who in other countries might become mobs, being there nearly altogether composed of their own Negro slaves."

When progressives wish to express their disappointment with Barack Obama, they point to the accomplishments of Franklin Roosevelt. But these progressives rarely note that Roosevelt's New Deal, much like the democracy that produced it, rested on the foundation of Jim Crow.

"The Jim Crow South," writes Ira Katznelson, a history and political-science professor at Columbia, "was the one collaborator America's democracy could not do without." The marks of that collaboration are all over the New Deal. The omnibus programs passed under the Social Security Act in 1935 were crafted in such a way as to protect the southern way of life. Old-age insurance (Social Security proper) and unemployment insurance excluded farmworkers and domestics--jobs heavily occupied by blacks. When President Roosevelt signed Social Security into law in 1935, 65 percent of African Americans nationally and between 70 and 80 percent in the South were ineligible. The NAACP protested, calling the new American safety net "a sieve with holes just big enough for the majority of Negroes to fall through."...

The oft-celebrated G.I. Bill similarly failed black Americans, by mirroring the broader country's insistence on a racist housing policy. Though ostensibly color-blind, Title III of the bill, which aimed to give veterans access to low-interest home loans, left black veterans to tangle with white officials at their local Veterans Administration as well as with the same banks that had, for years, refused to grant mortgages to blacks.

"In 1930, only 30 percent of Americans owned their own homes; by 1960, more than 60 percent were home owners. Home ownership became an emblem of American citizenship."

That emblem was not to be awarded to blacks. The American real-estate industry believed segregation to be a moral principle. As late as 1950, the National Association of Real Estate Boards' code of ethics warned that "a Realtor should never be instrumental in introducing into a neighborhood ... any race or nationality, or any individuals whose presence will clearly be detrimental to property values." A 1943 brochure specified that such potential undesirables might include madams, bootleggers, gangsters--and "a colored man of means who was giving his children a college education and thought they were entitled to live among whites."

The federal government concurred. It was the Home Owners' Loan Corporation, not a private trade association, that pioneered the practice of redlining, selectively granting loans and insisting that any property it insured be covered by a restrictive covenant--a clause in the deed forbidding the sale of the property to anyone other than whites. Millions of dollars flowed from tax coffers into segregated white neighborhoods...

Plunder had been the essential feature of slavery, of the society described by Calhoun. But practically a full century after the end of the Civil War and the abolition of slavery, the plunder--quiet, systemic, submerged--continued even amidst the aims and achievements of New Deal liberals...

The traditional terminology, white flight, implies a kind of natural expression of preference. In fact, white flight was a triumph of social engineering, orchestrated by the shared racist presumptions of America's public and private sectors... Redlining destroyed the possibility of investment wherever black people lived.

To ignore the fact that one of the oldest republics in the world was erected on a foundation of white supremacy, to pretend that the problems of a dual society are the same as the problems of unregulated capitalism, is to cover the sin of national plunder with the sin of national lying. The lie ignores the fact that reducing American poverty and ending white supremacy are not the same. The lie ignores the fact that closing the "achievement gap" will do nothing to close the "injury gap," in which black college graduates still suffer higher unemployment rates than white college graduates, and black job applicants without criminal records enjoy roughly the same chance of getting hired as white applicants with criminal records...

The early American economy was built on slave labor. The Capitol and the White House were built by slaves. President James K. Polk traded slaves from the Oval Office. The laments about "black pathology," the criticism of black family structures by pundits and intellectuals, ring hollow in a country whose existence was predicated on the torture of black fathers, on the rape of black mothers, on the sale of black children. An honest assessment of America's relationship to the black family reveals the country to be not its nurturer but its destroyer.

And this destruction did not end with slavery. Discriminatory laws joined the equal burden of citizenship to unequal distribution of its bounty. These laws reached their apex in the mid-20th century, when the federal government--through housing policies--engineered the wealth gap, which remains with us to this day. When we think of white supremacy, we picture Colored Only signs, but we should picture pirate flags.

Reparations would mean the end of yelling "patriotism" while waving a Confederate flag. Reparations would mean a revolution of the American consciousness, a reconciling of our self-image as the great democratizer with the facts of our history...

Reparations could not make up for the murder perpetrated by the Nazis. But they did launch Germany's reckoning with itself, and perhaps provided a road map for how a great civilization might make itself worthy of the name.

The Case for Reparations - The Atlantic
  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
    Whites where also sold into slavery, shouldn't we get reparation also? Slaves of a different color - Salon.com
    I have nothing to be sorry for. My mothers family who have been here since the 1700's never owned slaves and fought and gave their lives in the civil war to free the slaves. My fathers family moved here in the late 1800's and believed in equality for all, which is why they moved here.
    If you think forcing Americans to pay reparations for something they had nothing to do with will bring people together and end racism, your sadly mistaken.
    If anything it will cause a deeper divide in this country then the republicans and democrats have already caused.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      I take it you didn't read the article Thom.

      It isn't about individuals paying reparations, whatever those would be, it's about America doing so.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        It isn't about individuals paying reparations, whatever those would be, it's about America doing so.
        You mean it's about taxpayers paying.

        And no, I didn't read the article, didn't read all of your post, and not going to.

        Joe Mobley
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

          And no, I didn't read the article, didn't read all of your post, and not going to.

          Joe Mobley
          Not surprised.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        I take it you didn't read the article Thom.

        It isn't about individuals paying reparations, whatever those would be, it's about America doing so.
        Like Joe said where does America get the money from? That's right the taxpayers.
        I've got a better idea. How about we work on treating everyone equally. Apologizing to blacks today for what happened to some of their ancestors is not treating them as an equal. Giving them reparations is the same as saying "we still are better then you, but here's some money so you feel better about it".
        We all had bad things happen to us in our history.
        The Irish where treated like third class citizens when they first immigrated here. The Chinese where used as slave labor to build the railroads. Italians where treated like they where blacks. German-Americans where put in internment camps during WWI and II and Japanese-Americans where put into those camps during WWII. Do all those groups get reparations too?
        You don't end racism (towards anyone) by treating them like they are special or apologizing for something you had no part of. You end racism by treating all people as equals with the same advantages and disadvantages as anyone else might have to better their life.
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          Like Joe said where does America get the money from? That's right the taxpayers.
          Sure. Of course. What's your point?

          Apologizing to blacks today for what happened to some of their ancestors is not treating them as an equal.
          Some? We are talking about a country built on white supremacy. It goes way beyond some and way beyond slavery. The article talks about the descrimination in housing that happened for decades after ww2. The government was part of that along with the private sector. Some?

          Giving them reparations is the same as saying "we still are better then you, but here's some money so you feel better about it".
          Not really. It's admitting what we were and still am to a large degree.

          We all had bad things happen to us in our history.
          The Irish where treated like third class citizens when they first immigrated here. The Chinese where used as slave labor to build the railroads. Italians where treated like they where blacks. German-Americans where put in internment camps during WWI and II and Japanese-Americans where put into those camps during WWII. Do all those groups get reparations too?
          The Japanese did get reparations and two appologies. The point is though, we are talking about about 400 years of state sactioned descrimination that included slavery but wasn't limited to it. I'm Irish and know our history coming here. It doesn't compare.

          You don't end racism (towards anyone) by treating them like they are special or apologizing for something you had no part of.
          Our country as a whole had a part in it. Big time.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Our country as a whole had a part in it. Big time.
            So, you're telling me that families who did not even arrive here until, say the early 1900's are just as responsible as those who kept slaves? What - because we're white?

            Makes sense :rolleyes:

            Tell you what - why don't we make all those who are related to people who took part in slavery, white supremacy, etc. and make them pay the relatives of those who suffered from all of this?

            Makes about as much sense as anything else...
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

              So, you're telling me that families who did not even arrive here until, say the early 1900's are just as responsible as those who kept slaves? What - because we're white?
              Umm. Nope. Didn't say that. I'll say it again, it's not an individual responsibility or blame but one of the country as a whole. How is that so hard to understand?


              Tell you what - why don't we make all those who are related to people who took part in slavery, white supremacy, etc. and make them pay the relatives of those who suffered from all of this?

              Makes about as much sense as anything else...
              Took part in white supremacy? When the government and society as a whole sanctions it doesn't that mean we are all part of it?
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Umm. Nope. Didn't say that. I'll say it again, it's not an individual responsibility or blame but one of the country as a whole. How is that so hard to understand?
                And how hard is it to understand that to say the country should pay reparations it comes out of all of our pockets?


                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post


                Took part in white supremacy? When the government and society as a whole sanctions it doesn't that mean we are all part of it?
                Speak for yourself. If you have latent feeling of guilt for some reason that's between you and your conscience. I didn't sanction it, nor did I give my blessing for the government or society as a whole to practice it.

                You say we're all part of it. I say not so. So we'll just agree to disagree on this one
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Sure. Of course. What's your point?
            My point is you said the people won't have to pay the government would. With the tax money we give them so we WOULD BE the ones paying

            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Some? We are talking about a country built on white supremacy. It goes way beyond some and way beyond slavery. The article talks about the descrimination in housing that happened for decades after ww2. The government was part of that along with the private sector. Some?
            What so I'm part of the problem simply because I was born here and happen to be white?
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Not really. It's admitting what we were and still am to a large degree.
            Maybe you are but I was raised different from that. I was taught from as far back as I can remember that the color of a persons skin isn't important.
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            The Japanese did get reparations and two appologies. The point is though, we are talking about about 400 years of state sactioned descrimination that included slavery but wasn't limited to it. I'm Irish and know our history coming here. It doesn't compare.
            You don't know much about our history. Our country isn't even 300 years old let alone 400. Maybe you can get the Brits, french, Dutch, etc. to kick in for what they did during those first 100+ years.

            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Our country as a whole had a part in it. Big time.
            Sorry, I'm not responsible for what this country has done in the past. I didn't vote for anyone who enacted those past policies or have I ever supported anyone who thinks those types of policies where right.

            You want to treat a specific group of people special because of what has happened in the past.
            I want to treat all people as equal regardless of the past.
            I will not feel sorry for someone because of the color of their skin and that's what reparation is all about.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Sure. Of course. What's your point?
            OK, so you are saying NO blacks pay taxes!!!!! If they DO pay taxes, you are punishing the productive blacks by paying undue reparations to the poor!



            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Some? We are talking about a country built on white supremacy. It goes way beyond some and way beyond slavery.
            BULL

            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            The government was part of that along with the private sector.
            You are blaming the GOVERNMENT?

            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Not really. It's admitting what we were and still am to a large degree.
            OK, why should WE pay for what you are?

            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            The Japanese did get reparations and two appologies. The point is though, we are talking about about 400 years of state sactioned descrimination that included slavery but wasn't limited to it. I'm Irish and know our history coming here. It doesn't compare.
            The US is NOT 400 years old! That would mean I am over 200 years old, since I remember when we celebrated the BI-centenial!!!!!

            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Our country as a whole had a part in it. Big time.
            I had nothing to do with it. Apparently my FAMILY didn't. MUCH of MY family had what amounted to be slavery. About 1 QUARTER of the COUNTRY ******DIED******! Another QUARTER, of which my families were a part, LEFT the country. IMAGINE over HALF the country dying or leaving! I say OVER half because the 25%/50% are low because the BRITISH invaded the country.

            HEY, where are MY reparations?

            And another part of my family probably weren't treated that well in the 20th century. I guess it is good that the cultures in my family represented like 20% of the US.

            As for reparations? The responsible should pay what they are reasonably on the hook for. Trying to find those two groups would be difficult. A LOT of blacks wouldn't get a penny and those that were paid would not be rich. But HOW is it to be distributed? What if a black is to pay another black? The OLDEST would have claims going back maybe 124 years.

            As for africa, EVEN TODAY, they are torturing, killing, and enslaving, other blacks. Have you LOOKED at what is happening in the CAR today?

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              You know, I didn't ever personally put any Japanese in internment camps back in WW2 and I don't think any of my family did either. However, I think reparations and the apologies were warranted. Funny how that works.

              By the way, I know how old our country is. OK, the reparations should just start from 1776 then. Is that better?
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                You know, I didn't ever personally put any Japanese in internment camps back in WW2 and I don't think any of my family did either. However, I think reparations and the apologies were warranted. Funny how that works.

                By the way, I know how old our country is. OK, the reparations should just start from 1776 then. Is that better?
                How about this.
                You find all the families of the people and government officials who owned slaves or discriminated against blacks by the laws they passed and all the families of the blacks who were slaves or were discriminated against by those laws and make the first group apologize and pay reparations to the second group.

                As for your first statement about the Japanese.
                Why don't you feel the Germans who where put in camps deserve the same apology and shouldn't all Americans of German decent get reparations also?
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  Reparations go to the victims.
                  America would pay - with what money? Would you raise taxes so that all blacks and whites and latinos and asians are paying to provide money to some blacks of certain descent?

                  You label "nonsensical" any view you don't agree with. But there were many blacks involved in the slave trade - still are in other parts of the world today.

                  Would the people have to PROVE their ancestors were slaves prior to the Civil War? How would they prove that? What about the ones who say having to provide an ID is a hardship....would they be able to find ID's for cash?

                  Of course I am being facetious. This is an old, old story that is trotted out every few years when necessary to distract or get some anger going or remind people who is on "their side". We wouldn't want people of all colors to start thinking we are all on the same side, would we???

                  I'd say even in D.C. legislators on both sides wouldn't pass anything like this....but then I saw this woman tonight and went....oh dear....she IS in Congress.

                  Rep. Ann Kuster Appears Baffled by Benghazi Question - ABC News
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                  • Profile picture of the author Sinistar
                    Retarded, liberal crap.

                    I got a better idea...

                    How about we stop talking about racism altogether (especially the media), stop pointing the dirty finger at others declaring they're racists, and maybe then we'll get somewhere.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      We wouldn't want people of all colors to start thinking we are all on the same side, would we???
                      If anything I can see where it could make racism worse.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                You know, I didn't ever personally put any Japanese in internment camps back in WW2 and I don't think any of my family did either. However, I think reparations and the apologies were warranted. Funny how that works.

                By the way, I know how old our country is. OK, the reparations should just start from 1776 then. Is that better?
                I'm sure the japanese that were interned, or their immediate families were paid some reasonable reparations for the people interred. That is TOTALLY different than paying ALL of a given race for a few people(They WERE a relative few, especially when you consider those that were enslaved by white americans that were ancesters of people affected by that and didn't benefit in some way)

                And those intered during WWII were because of fears that they may try to fight against the US, etc... So it was an act of the US. The US owed them.

                Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    As Thom points out, there's a number of problems with reparation. I have some Civil War family reunion pictures. All my family was wearing Union uniforms.

    Many Irish and Italian imigrants came to this country after slavery ended. Are their descendants responsible for reparations too?

    How about someone like Obama...He isn't the decendant of American slaves, although he's black. Would he qualify?

    Would people of mixed race get reparations based on what "percentage of black" they are?

    I don't like making decisions of any kind based on race. Instead, help should be given based on need.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Kurt, here's the author who answers some of your questions.

      Full Show: Facing the Truth: The Case for Reparations | Moyers & Company | BillMoyers.com

      He says whatever reparations would come out of his taxes also. Like I told Thom, it isn't the individual who would pay, it's America as a whole.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Many Irish and Italian imigrants came to this country after slavery ended. Are their descendants responsible for reparations too?
      It's not a matter of individual responsibility or blame.

      How about someone like Obama...He isn't the decendant of American slaves, although he's black. Would he qualify?
      Perhaps, but to a smaller amount than someone who's family went back generations. As the article points out, the injuries suffered from white spremacy didn't end when slavery did.

      Would people of mixed race get reparations based on what "percentage of black" they are?
      That would have to be determined. I would doubt that it would be just pure African Americans.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The first slave holder in the US, and the first RECOGNIZED ONE, was BLACK! In 1654. He STOLE what many BLACK INDENTURED servants got! 50acres for each servant(Who were SLAVES thanks to him).

    Apparently Michelle obamas history in this area started with her ancester becoming a slave because of what was considered at the time, 1640!!!!, grand theft. Barack Obama doesn't even have such history.

    The US didn't even exist until 1776. So HOW does the US rectify all this? ESPECIALLY in light of affirmative action, etc...

    ZoNation: Affirmative Action Divides America and Makes Little Sense - YouTube

    My apologies for some of the party names. I start it where this person talks about it.

    His income may even have been hurt a little bit by affirmative action. I don't see any way he could have benefited from it.

    And YEAH, poorer areas may not get many new teachers from outside the area, but NONE say NO BLACKS. I NEVER went to an all white school. The highschool I went to had a LOT of blacks in it.

    I was in only ONE company that I don't think had any blacks. It had maybe 6 people. But HEY, almost half of the people were women. The rest included asians and jewish people. Why no blacks? I never saw one apply.

    The DOZENS of other companies I have been to had blacks, as well as others. I can even point to one that had MANY employees, and only ONE office worker was male! He was married to the president. SERIOUSLY!

    And did I mention? ALL of the companies I am talking about above had good paying jobs, even with low skilled labor.

    BTW Note to heysal....

    When I spoke of Alfonzo Rachel earlier..... THIS is the person I was talking about.

    BTW My father's family settled mostly in wisconsin, and is mostly there to this day. My mothers family in Boston, and stayed around there.

    http://lh3.ggpht.com/_hXM70CoCRWg/S8...jpg?imgmax=800

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders.
      Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard Chair of African and African American Studies, has stated that "without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible, at least on the scale it occurred."
      According to Robert Davis between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by Barbary pirates and sold as slaves to North Africa and the Ottoman Empire between the 16th and 19th centuries
      Slavery in Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      If you want reparations, why don't you start with black-Africans that conquered and sold other black-Africans into slavery. That won't be popular with the politically-correct crowd, but the facts seldom are.

      Joe Mobley
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Slavery in Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        If you want reparations, why don't you start with black-Africans that conquered and sold other black-Africans into slavery. That won't be popular with the politically-correct crowd, but the facts seldom are.

        Joe Mobley
        Nonsensical. Reparations go to the victims.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
          Very sensical! Let me help you.

          If you want money for reparations, why don't you start with black-Africans that conquered and sold other black-Africans into slavery. That won't be popular with the politically-correct crowd, but the facts seldom are.
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Nonsensical. Reparations go to the victims.
          Joe Mobley
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          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
            Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

            Very sensical! Let me help you.



            Joe Mobley
            That's irrational now. We are talking about our country owning up to what we have done in the past, and making reparations for it. We did it for the Japanese after ww2. Our government put them in concentration camps and our government granted reparations.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I don't think any amount of money would ever be able to pay for the hurt feelings, the inferiority complexes, the humiliation, and spiritual as well as literal murder --- or for example for situations like 'driving while black' -

    ... and it isn't in some antique civil or world war sense, but people even younger than I am that are/were hurt by blind, ignorant prejudice from the time they were children.

    While that isn't 'slavery', again, it is nothing we will ever be able to make up for, so like Thom says - just focus on treating everybody equally - have an open mind -

    "all men are brothers".
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    ANOTHER thing! What about WHITE slaves? Do WHITES get reparations for THAT?

    Hoffman reveals: The Forgotten Slaves--Whites in Servitude

    And I have heard stories about people in Ireland being treated as slaves by England. Told NOT to teach Gaelic, forced to change their diet, "sell" property, etc... My father's family DID come here around the time of the famine. The british were responsible for a lot of that impact.


    From wikipedia

    Historians estimate that more than half of all white immigrants to the English colonies of North America during the 17th and 18th centuries came as indentured servants. The number of indentured servants among immigrants was particularly high in the South.[8] The early colonists of Virginia treated the first Africans in the colony as indentured servants. They were freed after a stated period and given the use of land and supplies by their former masters.
    IMAGINE! OVER HALF the whites here came as indentured servants! Some of them, like SOME of the blacks, ended up being full SLAVES!!!!

    GRANTED most of the whites probably had an easier time escaping, but that is it. You COULD argue that the blacks had an easier time escaping under cover of darkness.

    As to the supposed "myth" of NINA, it DID happen. It was COMMON in Britain. It DID happen in the US. I was shocked a few years ago when SEVERAL people told me they would NEVER hire irish workers. HALF those people were, as one said he "ironically" admitted, were of irish descent!!!!!! That conversation started because of an Irish family that ended up renting a room in that hotel.

    That was LITERALLY around 2011!!!! It was in BOSTON! BOSTON is probably one of the most irish places, in the US! Look at what wikipedia says are the most populous irish cities:

    Large cities with the highest percentage of Irish ancestry[edit]
    Boston, Massachusetts 15.80%
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 13%
    Chicago, Illinois 8%
    Tulsa, Oklahoma[1] 11.4%
    Buffalo, New York 11.23%
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 10.74%
    Kansas City, Missouri 9.66%
    Cleveland, Ohio 9.43%
    Baltimore, Maryland 9.14%
    Cincinnati, Ohio 9.05%
    St. Louis, Missouri 8.73%
    Indianapolis, Indiana 8.61%
    [2]
    Medium-size cities[edit]
    Weymouth, Massachusetts - 45.5%
    Quincy, Massachusetts 34.6%
    Augusta, Georgia
    Savannah, Georgia
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Albany, New York - 18.1%
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Scranton, Pennsylvania - 30.3%
    Syracuse, New York
    Saint Paul, Minnesota
    Smaller cities and towns
    Marshfield, Massachusetts - 46.7%
    Braintree, Massachusetts - 46.8%
    Scituate, Massachusetts - 47.5%
    Pearl River, New York - 45.7%
    Milton, Massachusetts - 44.7%
    Gloucester City, New Jersey - 38.8%
    Hull, Massachusetts - 44%
    Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania - 37.9%
    Oak Lawn, Illinois - 30.4%
    Troy, New York - 24.3%
    Butte, Montana - 23.6%
    Havertown, Pennsylvania - 21.7% (Known as the "33rd county," a reference to the 32 counties of Ireland)
    Greenwood Village, Colorado
    Gaffney, South Carolina

    Somehow all of THIS gets swept under the rug.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Hey...just keeping it real.

    I thought you guys and gals on this thread may find it interesting that Solomon Northup's dad was freed by my family. You know Solomon Northup...the 12 Years A Slave gentleman.

    Solomon's father Mintus was a freedman who had been a slave in his early life in service to the Northup family. Born in Rhode Island, he was taken with the Northups when they moved to Hoosick, New York, in Rensselaer County. His master, Capt. Henry Northup, manumitted Mintus in his will. After being freed by Henry Northup, Mintus adopted the surname Northup as his own. The name appears interchangeably in records as Northup and Northrup.

    Mintus Northup married and moved with his wife, a free woman of color, to the town of Minerva in Essex County, New York. Their two sons, Solomon and Joseph, were born free according to the principle of partus sequitur ventrem, as their mother was a free woman. Solomon described his mother as a quadroon, meaning that she was one-quarter African American, and three-quarters European. A farmer, Mintus Northup was successful enough to own land and thus meet the state's property requirements. From 1821 on, when it revised its constitution, the state retained the property requirement for black people, but dropped it for white men, thus expanding their franchise. It is notable that Mintus Northup was able to save enough money as a freedman to buy land that satisfied this requirement, and registered to vote. He provided an education for his two sons at a level considered high for free black people at that time.

    Solomon Northup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    As far as the article goes I don't think America should pay reparations --> but I can't fathom how one man could own another man either.

    It appears as if the UK is resistant to paying reparations as well.

    The quest for reparations for historic atrocities committed during the transatlantic slave trade is running into increasingly determined resistance from the UK government.

    Members of Caricom, the Caribbean's political and economic body, are meeting on the island of St Vincent on 10 March to co-ordinate their campaign for compensation payments against former slave-owning nations in Europe. The claim is being organised by the London law firm Leigh Day and channelled initially through the UN convention on the elimination of racial discrimination (Cerd) which, Caribbean leaders believe, can be used as a forum for negotiation.

    <snip>

    We regret and condemn the iniquities of the historic slave trade, but these shameful activities belong to the past. Governments today cannot take responsibility for what happened over 200 years ago."

    UK sternly resists paying reparations for slave trade atrocities and injustices | World news | theguardian.com
    And no, I don't think reparations should be paid for the of actions Vlad the Impaler either.

    Cheers

    -don
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