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Would you be OK with this?

by SteveJohnson
24 replies
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New federal database will track Americans' credit ratings, other financial information | WashingtonExaminer.com

As many as 227 million Americans may be compelled to disclose intimate details of their families and financial lives -- including their Social Security numbers -- in a new national database being assembled by two federal agencies.
I don't understand why anyone would lay down for this kind of data collection by government.
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Do people really think is this something NEW that's coming?

    From 2010:

    Feds Warrantlessly Tracking Americans’ Credit Cards in Real Time | Threat Level | WIRED

    From this month:

    The feds? push for Big Data - Stephanie Simon - POLITICO.com

    What is happening in my opinion is the Snowden leaks and other info releases are forcing feds to reveal what they've been doing without our knowledge or permission.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I agree with Kay. Don't think this is anything new and don't think we even begin to know how much and what type of data has been collected on us.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    All I know is that they DON'T understand it, and it is NOT any good.

    HECK, the credit reporting agencies have decided to do AWAY with the FICO score, and created what they call the vantage score. It takes into account things that NOBODY ON THE PLANET may know! HECK, when WC fields died, he apparently had many stashed ALL OVER! If the "credit reporting agencies" knew this at that time, and they used vantage, WCFs score would have been higher. If he were judged by the vantage, in the likely case of their NOT knowing, it would have been LOWER. And FICO doesn't seem that great either.

    VANTAGE has me ranked lower than I should be and FICO has me in the next highest level. GO FIGURE! If vantage knew how much I stashed away, they might have me ranked on the highest level. Meanwhile I get marked down for things like only paying what I owe on my mortgage!

    But yeah, I was sent a folder a few decades ago. I ordered a service that they had, and this was to start that. It was from TRW, which is now experian. They would SUPPOSEDLY give me preferential treatment if I basically did their job and told them like every penny I had! They wanted to know about ALL my bank accounts, brokerage accounts, credit card accounts, physical assets(Like precious coins, gold, silver, etc....), etc.... It was seriously a BOOKLET, bound and everything. It was probably 20-30 pages. I thought THEY HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! I never bothered going any farther.

    And I will never forget the WSJ article about how a CRA sent a person into a city to validate some records, and they got things BACKWARDS! Those shown as having defaults were said to have NONE! Those that had NO defaults were said to have defaults. Talk about a SNAFU!

    BTW I WONDER! The US supposedly BANNED universal defaults, around 2009 IIRC! So WHY are they NOW trying to create a database to effectively facilitate that?

    8 major benefits of new credit card law

    1. Retroactive rate increases
    Issuers can't raise rates on an existing balance unless a promotional rate expired, the variable indexed rate increased or you paid late by 60 days or more. No longer will they be able to punish borrowers for late payments on unrelated accounts under the practice of universal default or due to "anytime, any reason" clauses.
    And WHAT RIGHT and by WHAT authority do the Federal Housing Finance Agency and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau have to even ASK for this info?

    I mean if a person deals with the FHFA, they can use the same method used by everyone for MILLENIA! They can inquire THEN for info that pertain to it! With the CFPB, MOST of the time it shouldn't even come up! If it does, THEY can ask then ALSO!

    I mean does GM have a right to ask for everyone's credit details? NOPE! Even GMAC can't! But if you take out a loan, they will ask for YOURS!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
    "I don't understand why anyone would lay down for this kind of data collection by government."

    Steve,

    We already did lie down for it. And we will continue to lie down for it.
    That's how the story goes. The outcome is predictable too, as history has
    a way of repeating itself again and again.

    Pogo said it best: "We have met the enemy and he is us."
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Ron Lafuddy View Post

      Steve,

      We already did lie down for it. And We will continue to lie down for it.
      That's how the story goes. The outcome is predictable too, as history has
      a way of repeating itself again and again.
      Yeah, I know. The info is there, and will just get worse. HECK, they think I am still paying over $250/month on a paid off and closed account, The composite report shows ANOTHER account listed like 3 times! I had 2 inquiries that were illegal, done by radioshack! At least one address was wrong(significant typos). And that is just stuff I caught!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Our gov is building a multi-billion dollar central data center right now in Utah. Every bit of your personal data collected will be stored there.....and this means personalized. You will have a profile so inclusive that it is revolting. The collection includes all financial records and transactions, such as what you purchase from a grocery store, phone calls, GPS data, medical records that were once private, etc. and so on - they can build a complete profile on you. You would not believe what they can tell about you from this kind of data.

    You have no privacy. It's gone.
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Our gov is building a multi-billion dollar central data center right now in Utah. Every bit of your personal data collected will be stored there.....and this means personalized. You will have a profile so inclusive that it is revolting. The collection includes all financial records and transactions, such as what you purchase from a grocery store, phone calls, GPS data, medical records that were once private, etc. and so on - they can build a complete profile on you. You would not believe what they can tell about you from this kind of data.

      You have no privacy. It's gone.
      The exact reason I like cryptocurrency.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      You will have a profile so inclusive that it is revolting. .
      Mine is different. I have a profile so inclusive that it's sensuous.....and fluffy.
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      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Mine is different. I have a profile so inclusive that it's sensuous.....and fluffy.
        Interesting. My profile is just the opposite. It is exclusive, coarse, brittle, and distasteful. In fact, it bothers them so much NSA has asked me to please stop putting so much crap out there. They don't want anymore info, are totally uninterested in what I do and are throwing my profile away. Geesh! Talk about a slap to my ego. I may have to sue to keep them spying on me.

        BTW, fluffy? I had a neighbor who was 5'2" and weighed 450 pounds at least. She described herself as fluffy. lol. Is that how you meant it?
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

          Interesting. My profile is just the opposite. It is exclusive, coarse, brittle, and distasteful. In fact, it bothers them so much NSA has asked me to please stop putting so much crap out there. They don't want anymore info, are totally uninterested in what I do and are throwing my profile away. Geesh! Talk about a slap to my ego. I may have to sue to keep them spying on me.

          BTW, fluffy? I had a neighbor who was 5'2" and weighed 450 pounds at least. She described herself as fluffy. lol. Is that how you meant it?
          I feel the same way, lol.
          I'm sure if they evaluated me to see if I was a threat, the only threat would be them laughing to death at what they found.
          Someone asked me once how I knew the feds haven't looked into my bank account.
          I said if they did they would feel sorry for me and put money in it.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            I feel the same way, lol.
            I'm sure if they evaluated me to see if I was a threat, the only threat would be them laughing to death at what they found.
            Someone asked me once how I knew the feds haven't looked into my bank account.
            I said if they did they would feel sorry for me and put money in it.
            Yeah, well if they are following me they've gotten some very personal info on family recipes and that ticks me off - they need to pay for them.
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            Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Lafuddy
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      You have no privacy. It's gone.
      You're right, Sal.

      We're a long ways from those bygone days when privacy was a matter of choice.

      They are gone.

      There's no sense wasting time being angry about it, though.

      The time is better spent imagining how the data will be used against you and preparing for that eventuality
      .
      That's where you can make a difference for yourself and your loved ones.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

    New federal database will track Americans' credit ratings, other financial information | WashingtonExaminer.com



    I don't understand why anyone would lay down for this kind of data collection by government.
    Ron hinted at the solution already. Data is worthless if it can't be used against people.

    The solution is sensible legislation that covers exactly what the government can and can't do with all that data.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

      Ron hinted at the solution already. Data is worthless if it can't be used against people.

      The solution is sensible legislation that covers exactly what the government can and can't do with all that data.
      You would not believe how little data it takes to build a profile that allows them to understand you completely, and even predict where you will be at certain times, and with whom. Of course - they have GPS to help with some of that now - your car is now a monitorable device whenever they want to know where you are. So's your cell phone. Even if they aren't monitoring your calls, they sure know where you are if they want to if you are carrying one.
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      Sal
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      • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        You would not believe how little data it takes to build a profile that allows them to understand you completely, and even predict where you will be at certain times, and with whom. Of course - they have GPS to help with some of that now - your car is now a monitorable device whenever they want to know where you are. So's your cell phone. Even if they aren't monitoring your calls, they sure know where you are if they want to if you are carrying one.
        Exactly why there needs to be a clear set of laws about what they aren't allowed to do with all this data.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

          Exactly why there needs to be a clear set of laws about what they aren't allowed to do with all this data.
          NO. Actually - it needs to be illegal, and preferably impossible to collect the data in the first place. What does the gov need a record of what you buy at the store for? Really. What business is it of theirs?

          What can they tell from your debit or credit card?
          Are you an enviromentalist? Are you a prepper? Do you entertain and about what size of crowds do you host when you do. Do you and the people you entertain eat organic foods or monsanto GMO. What are you likely doing at these gatherings - are they meetings or parties? Are you a heavy drinker? What kind of pharms do you use? How much gas do you usually keep in your car. Is there a large breed dog or more in the house? Are there weapons in the house and how many/what kind? What is your habitual circle (most people have a 25 mile radius that they rarely travel outside of). Where do you go when you leave your habitual circle? How likely are you to understand unfamiliar terrains and which terrains can you navigate/survive on. Do you grow your own food - what kind, how much, and are you likely to have seeds stored or preserved food stocks. Are you likely to preserve or destroy the environment? Are you disaster prepared? Which political/religious philosophies do you embrace? What causes do you support? Are you a blind consumer or a minimalist. What type of supplies do you make for yourself (making soaps, candles, weaving baskets/blankets, making clothing, etc) How much money have you got stashed. What type of "escape" abilities do you have. Who are your friends? What times are you likely to be at any of your habitual places (stores, work, bars, clubs). How likely are you to resist a gov action such as martial law. Will you be likely to fight or run, or just stay put and hope for the best. What type of stimulus calms you or excites you?

          This is an extremely small list. As you can see - it's a dangerous one. Put that list together with phone or car GPS and there's not much room for you to safely hold any ideas or take any actions whatsoever that a tyrannical entity won't support.

          Our gov needs absolutely no data about us to function in the fashion it was meant to function. There is not one good or safe reason they would want to collect a database of personalized citizen information. Not one need, and not one good reason.
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          Sal
          When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
          Beyond the Path

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          • Profile picture of the author Hopeless Bromantic
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            NO. Actually - it needs to be illegal, and preferably impossible to collect the data in the first place. What does the gov need a record of what you buy at the store for? Really. What business is it of theirs?

            Our gov needs absolutely no data about us to function in the fashion it was meant to function. There is not one good or safe reason they would want to collect a database of personalized citizen information. Not one need, and not one good reason.
            Tracking no financial data whatsoever will make it considerably harder to fight money laundering.

            Maybe it's worth the sacrifice and maybe it isn't, but have you even thought of that?
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by Hopeless Bromantic View Post

              Tracking no financial data whatsoever will make it considerably harder to fight money laundering.

              Maybe it's worth the sacrifice and maybe it isn't, but have you even thought of that?
              Ever hear of information overload? How about ecology? HEY, HOW ABOUUUUUT CARBON FOOTPRINT! OZONE LAYER?


              GIVE ME A BREAK! Those IDIOTS ask for payments without expenses! They ask for info from paypal and probably don't even tie to the actual payee/payer. They use SSN info and treat it like so many numbers on a dial just making its ability WORTHLESS! They allow illegal aliens!

              IMAGINE, for example, that someone gets your SSN and birthdate. That isn't hard thanks to how they handle data. An illegal alien wants treatment, or some benefit. They can impersonate you, destroy your credit, have you listed with problems and offenses you had NOTHING t do with, etc.... Meanwhile, they can run up debt on YOUR account and get treatment.

              I guess similar things are done all over, because the FBI said it is the most popular type of crime(or is that white collar crime).

              I don't know about YOU, but I have ALWAYS shredded stuff. And I mean CONFETTI type shredding. And I mix it up and throw it out. The hospital tries to get me to tell various people my birthdate, but I try to wait until nobody is around and practically whisper. THEY shouldn't even know! It is a lousy form of ID ANYWAY! Would a credit card company use that? NOPE! It is only ONE thing they might use in PART. The hospital wants to throw ID bracelets into a COMMUNAL OPEN bin CLAIMING that within 24 hours they get shredded(if someone doesn't pull it out first). I take them with me and shred them. People ask for birthdates, I generally lie. But STILL, things get out or are forced out. Once, my insurer used my SSN as an ID!!!!!!!! I told them it was ILLEGAL and I wanted it changed. They finally did change it.

              But don't fool yourself, they WILL succeed at getting the info at some point. And this CORRUPTS data the government will get!

              Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddy Matthews
    They have been doing this in some countries in Europe for a long time with law enforcement using the data base as well. They, however they are, know everything about you... Big brother is watching you!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I use cash or a prepaid debit card for most banking.
    I recently had to get a new debit card and had to get human override
    to open the account because where I live was not in the data base of residences.
    you can bet that is now in the gov't data base.

    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    I received an official letter today letting me know 27 government employee's committed suicide while watching over me, and collecting data on me.

    They politely asked if I would say, do, or buy something that is at least remotely interesting.
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  • Profile picture of the author ErinWalsh
    I'm a very private person. I don't like my information floating about, and certainly don't like the thought of a database with all my info on it out there somewhere. I already have fits of rage at the news story I read last week about the NSA redirecting router and modem shipments and installing a chip that will allow them to track everything you do online.
    I KNOW they're collecting every shred of info we put out there, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
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