What Would Happen To The Earth If The Sun Dissapeared

hardraysnight

12 years ago

back to the tanning booth

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David Beroff 12 years ago

Two real quick thoughts:

1. Human vision with no sun or moon or artificial light isn't a remote concept; I've actually experienced it myself in the Canyonlands of Utah. One can't see very well with starlight, and there's not enough light to perceive color, but it's still strong enough to avoid walking into things.

2. One wonders how developed life is/was/could be on some of our outer planets' moons like Europa; presumably they have similar internal heat sources.
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whateverpedia

12 years ago

Everything would die.

1 Plants which rely on photosynthesis would die first.
2 Then herbivores which rely on plants to survive, would die.
3 Then carnivores which rely on herbivores to survive would die.
4 Then omnivores, including humans, would die.

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bravo75

12 years ago

Our source energy would have to find an alternative place for our higher vibrational being to manifest itself into physical form.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Everything would die.

1 Plants which rely on photosynthesis would die first.
2 Then herbivores which rely on plants to survive, would die.
3 Then carnivores which rely on herbivores to survive would die.
4 Then omnivores, including humans, would die.

Except Claude of course!

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seasoned

12 years ago

How could they really know how bright the stars would be without the sun? They DO reflect light from the sun. AND, with all of THESE planets set lose, OTHER galaxies are likely to change.

We don't need an atmosphere with a certain amount of oxygen. We need to be able to absorb enough oxygen in the air we breath. There is a VERY big difference. For one, CO2 displaces oxygen. So a higher CO2 content means that we would have to take in that much more air, even with the same level of oxygen.

Of course one wonders how effective the level of heat would be from the water vents. And what of all the pressure changes? And the difference between the hot and cold areas could get VERY violent and possibly make things even COLDER.

Of course, with no plants, we would have a hard time trying to survive. Even if you only eat meat, at SOME point, PLANTS were involved!

Steve

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

How could they really know how bright the stars would be without the sun? They DO reflect light from the sun. AND, with all of THESE planets set lose, OTHER galaxies are likely to change.

I doubt stars reflect any noticable light or heat from our sun. Even if they did, they are multiple light years away, so it would take quite a while for the sun's light to travel to the stars and back again. However, the moon does reflect light from our sun, so nights would be pitch dark.

Earth would freeze in a short time. It would also have none of the sun's gravity to hold it in orbit, so it and all the other planets, moons, asteroids, comets, etc, would "fly" around. Since the solar system would be without a sun, there would be no SOLAR system.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I doubt stars reflect any noticable light or heat from our sun. Even if they did, they are multiple light years away, so it would take quite a while for the sun's light to travel to the stars and back again. However, the moon does reflect light from our sun, so nights would be pitch dark.

Earth would freeze in a short time. It would also have none of the sun's gravity to hold it in orbit, so it and all the other planets, moons, asteroids, comets, etc, would "fly" around. Since the solar system would be without a sun, there would be no SOLAR system.

Yup, to all of it.

Stars don't reflect light. Stars are distant Suns.

If the Sun suddenly didn't exist......

Seasons would cease to exist.
We would have almost no light. Starlight is very faint, even compared to moonlight.

But none of that would matter.

The surface would freeze...very quickly.

And, although some of us may survive underground, on stored food, for a while....it would be the end for every living thing on Earth.

This doesn't even take into account the sudden loss of the Sun's gravitational pull. At the very least, it would cause massive earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions. It may kill us outright.

Also, if our Sun disappeared, it would send us, and the other planets, slowly drifting through space. Millions of years from now, they may reach another Sun, to get caught in it's gravity. But by then, our planet would be frozen completely, and even the atmosphere would be frozen.

I read the comments here and on Youtube (for the Youtube video). I'm astounded by how little most people are aware of anything having to do with science.

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whateverpedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

However, the moon does reflect light from our sun, so nights would be pitch dark.

Days would be pitch dark as well. In fact there'd no more days or nights. Just eternal blackness.

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Kurt 12 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Days would be pitch dark as well. In fact there'd no more days or nights. Just eternal blackness.

Good point.

And with no sun , all plants would die that depend on photosynthesis, then all the animals that eat plants, assuming they didn't freeze first.

Speaking of the sun, happy first day of summer, especially for all of us that live in the N. hemisphere...
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- Kay King 12 years ago
  
  It takes sunlight about 8.5 minutes to reach the earth. It means the sun could explode and we wouldn't know about it until more than 8 minutes later when everything went dark. Things like that used to bother me when I was a kid.
  
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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Days would be pitch dark as well. In fact there'd no more days or nights. Just eternal blackness.

Yup.

How much does the temperature go down at night? ten degrees? More?

Let's say it's ten degrees. Then every 24 hours the planet's surface would lose ten degrees of heat. In a month, we'd nearly all be gone...just from the loss of heat from the sun.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Yup.

How much does the temperature go down at night? ten degrees? More?

Let's say it's ten degrees. Then every 24 hours the planet's surface would lose ten degrees of heat. In a month, we'd nearly all be gone...just from the loss of heat from the sun.

I don't think this is accurate. I'd bet the cooling would happen much, much faster. Even if this rate is correct, in a month we'd be approaching absolute zero.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I don't think this is accurate. I'd bet the cooling would happen much, much faster. Even if this rate is correct, in a month we'd be approaching absolute zero.

I know. I was trying to avoid a backlash. And you're right, the surface would be close to absolute zero. The only thing adding any heat at all would be whatever heat made it though the thick ice on the surface, from the Earth's mantle.

I was thinking that, assuming the "throwing out of orbit" didn't instantly kill us...within a few days it would be impossible to go outside, and within a few weeks, we'd all be dead.

And if the Sun exploded (instead of just disappearing) we would be in near total darkness in under 9 minutes...and the blast would completely atomize the planet a few minutes later.

If we knew decades in advance, that the Sun was going to disappear, we may be able to survive temporarily by living underground..using the internal heat of the planet to keep us alive. But we would still be a doomed planet.

We would never have enough time to build a spacecraft large enough to hold enough of us to matter. And where would we go? It would take hundreds of thousands of years to reach another planet around another star....assuming one was even found. We haven't found one yet.

These thoughts keep me warm at night.

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lanfear63

12 years ago

We would never have enough time to build a spacecraft large enough to hold enough of us to matter. And where would we go? It would take hundreds of thousands of years to reach another planet around another star....assuming one was even found. We haven't found one yet.

These thoughts keep me warm at night......

Or would we!, If we had 75 years, possibly!

Evacuate Earth -- Part 1/2 -- (A National...

Evacuate Earth -- Part 2/2 -- (A National...

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I know. I was trying to avoid a backlash. And you're right, the surface would be close to absolute zero. The only thing adding any heat at all would be whatever heat made it though the thick ice on the surface, from the Earth's mantle.

I was thinking that, assuming the "throwing out of orbit" didn't instantly kill us...within a few days it would be impossible to go outside, and within a few weeks, we'd all be dead.

Nah, if they can survive in Space 1999, on the moon after it got flinged away from the Earth, then we might all become unconscious for a short time, but we should survive.

We would never have enough time to build a spacecraft large enough to hold enough of us to matter. And where would we go? It would take hundreds of thousands of years to reach another planet around another star....assuming one was even found. We haven't found one yet.

These thoughts keep me warm at night.

Hundreds of thousands, nah, if we can figure out the warp thing then we could get to the nearest star systems in a few weeks.

Obviously if we don't overshoot our mark, or hit a rouge planet, or s atom sized speck of dust, etc. Then it should be possible.

But with present tech, we could reach our nearest neighbours within 5 years.

Obviously developing a highly efficient rocket engine system, is the tricky part, (maybe rotate several, for servicing,etc).

But as you can see from the suggestion above, from a tech, standpoint it should be possible.

As for achieve 99% light speed, and hitting a grain of sand sized object, that is another challenge.

Stephen Hawking - What It Takes to Time Travel -...

We would probably have to send a few on ahead to clear a path, then put up with 75% light speed, so most of our fleet of ships would survive.

We could still get to Galiese, N, (something) a giant, rocky planet that is likely to be Earth like, within 10 years.

So, l am confident that we could figure something out, but being one of the lucky ones that manage to go, would be the scary part!

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I don't think this is accurate. I'd bet the cooling would happen much, much faster. Even if this rate is correct, in a month we'd be approaching absolute zero.

You'd win your bet, Kurt.

It has to be remembered that even though it is night on one side of the earth - the other side is receiving sunlight, thus, it is being heated.

The earth, in daylight heats up so at night, there is a small loss of heat, but then the sun returns in the morning to reheat the cooling surface. Without reheating during the day, it's not going to take too much time for all the heat to dissipate - the cooler it gets, the faster cooling will happen.

We can't live without the sun. Period. It's not like we're on some self-contained ship flying around........this is a planet, for cripes sakes. No sun, no life.

It takes sunlight about 8.5 minutes to reach the earth. It means the sun could explode and we wouldn't know about it until more than 8 minutes later when everything went dark. Things like that used to bother me when I was a kid.

And we'd only know it for a fraction of a second before the blown off shell crispied us. Stars of our sun's mass nova when they die - that is they swell to giant size before blowing off their shell. We'd actually be inside of the sun for awhile at the end of its life, along with half of our solar system. This shouldn't happen for another 100 million years.......which in astronomical terms means any time now (

). Scientists actually have a tight monitor on shrinkage and swelling going on. Not sure what much we could do about it either way - but they watch.

Jupiter puts off some heat. It's just a little light on mass to have actually become a star but it does produce some of it's own heat. One of Jupiter's closer moons might be the only option we'd have available for immediate escape that we might survive and I don't think we'd be able to park for long. Too many volcanoes - too much sulfur in the air even if temperature would permit.

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Frank Donovan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Stars of our sun's mass nova when they die - that is they swell to giant size before blowing off their shell. We'd actually be inside of the sun for awhile at the end of its life, along with half of our solar system. This shouldn't happen for another 100 million years.......which in astronomical terms means any time now (

).

Sal, I recall you saying something similar before. Why do you believe that figure? I ask because it's the established scientific consensus that a star like our sun has a life expectancy of around nine billion years, and ours is currently about halfway through that period.

.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Sal, I recall you saying something similar before. Why do you believe that figure? I ask because it's the established scientific consensus that a star like our sun has a life expectancy of around nine billion years, and ours is currently about halfway through that period.

.

I think that Sal was saying the Sun would start to go downhill in that time frame?

The Earth would be more like Venus in a few hundred million years, based on latest data!

But at least we can pollute our brains out by then, as it wouldn't matter!

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Frank Donovan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

I think that Sal was saying the Sun would start to go downhill in that time frame?

The Earth would be more like Venus in a few hundred million years, based on latest data!

Well, If I'd known that, I wouldn't have wasted my time reading this thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...end-aging.html

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

I think that Sal was saying the Sun would start to go downhill in that time frame?

The Earth would be more like Venus in a few hundred million years, based on latest data!

But at least we can pollute our brains out by then, as it wouldn't matter!

Totally incorrect. The Earth will be an extinct ball of rock long before the sun swells up and engulfs it in 4-5 BILLION years, the spin would have slowed to a crawl, the magnetic field will have long gone and the atmosphere and magnetic protection will have largely leaked out into space, volcanic activity will have long ceased. Their will be no life to see the sun swell up.

The heating up of the earth due to us discharging too much Co2 and also release of methane into the atmosphere due to the warming will be but a blip on the historical landscape compared to this but it would never get as bad as Venus because the results of our parasitic actions will largely destroy us due to the hot harsh conditions for life that will come. Then, left to its own devices the gasses will fall back to earth and it it will cool again. The recovery may not be total but the planet will be cooler again and more habitable.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Totally incorrect. The Earth will be an extinct ball of rock long before the sun swells up and engulfs it in 4-5 BILLION years, the spin would have slowed to a crawl, the magnetic field will have long gone and the atmosphere and magnetic protection will have largely leaked out into space, volcanic activity will have long ceased. Their will be no life to see the sun swell up.

The heating up of the earth due to us discharging too much Co2 and also release of methane into the atmosphere due to the warming will be but a blip on the historical landscape compared to this but it would never get as bad as Venus because the results of our parasitic actions will largely destroy us due to the hot harsh conditions for life that will come. Then, left to its own devices the gasses will fall back to earth and it it will cool again. The recovery may not be total but the planet will be cooler again and more habitable.

That's probably true. Was that deduction or did you do research?

Oh, and the moon will no longer be in orbit...

But, I'll still be getting telemarketer calls for Viagra.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Well, If I'd known that, I wouldn't have wasted my time reading this thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...end-aging.html

Nah, you don't look a day over one hundred million!

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Totally incorrect. The Earth will be an extinct ball of rock long before the sun swells up and engulfs it in 4-5 BILLION years, the spin would have slowed to a crawl, the magnetic field will have long gone and the atmosphere and magnetic protection will have largely leaked out into space, volcanic activity will have long ceased. Their will be no life to see the sun swell up.

The heating up of the earth due to us discharging too much Co2 and also release of methane into the atmosphere due to the warming will be but a blip on the historical landscape compared to this but it would never get as bad as Venus because the results of our parasitic actions will largely destroy us due to the hot harsh conditions for life that will come. Then, left to its own devices the gasses will fall back to earth and it it will cool again. The recovery may not be total but the planet will be cooler again and more habitable.

Totally incorrect, l don't think so!

I agree the Earth will be a rightoff, long before the sun, becomes a red giant, but l believe l am right in saying, that in 100, million years, we will start to feel the effects of a dying sun.

It will be hotter, the sun will look bigger in the sky and some plant and animal species will start to have a hard time surviving!

No doubt by then we will be polluting Earths atmosphere like there are no tomorrows!

By then we will be on the terraformed, (if it needs it) Mars since it is further back, and Earth might turn into a giant industrial complex. We can do all our dirty work there, and live somewhere else, well at least for another 100 million years or so!

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

That's probably true. Was that deduction or did you do research?

Oh, and the moon will no longer be in orbit...

But, I'll still be getting telemarketer calls for Viagra.

My research using the Ouija board comes directly from the deceased spirit of Carl Sagan himself. He sends his regards by the way and says he enjoys reading your posts but said something about your altercations with a guy called Riffle wont end well! Dunno what that's about.

Now I found this just now. Something I had not even given any thought to. The Earth will be uninhabitable in only 1.75 Billion years. Read on...

Planet good for another 1.75 billion years, scientists say | Fox News

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I doubt stars reflect any noticable light or heat from our sun. Even if they did, they are multiple light years away, so it would take quite a while for the sun's light to travel to the stars and back again. However, the moon does reflect light from our sun, so nights would be pitch dark.

Earth would freeze in a short time. It would also have none of the sun's gravity to hold it in orbit, so it and all the other planets, moons, asteroids, comets, etc, would "fly" around. Since the solar system would be without a sun, there would be no SOLAR system.

Just debating the 1/300th. Yeah, even so, we see light that is many years old, and the earth would be someplace else entirely. In space1999. they had a similar thing with the moon. I thought THAT was crazy also, for many reasons, but at least THAT was a closed environment. Still, they were stranded because they were shot out of orbit with the sun.

I think there is too much to really determine what would happen, but a LOT of things many take for granted would change. TIDES, for example, would change to from non existent to haphazardly random. We could shoot by a large planet and have the biggest tsunami EVER, and not necessarily in JAPAN! That could kill billions right there, though I think they would be dead earlier anyway.

Steve

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salegurus

12 years ago

It would suck to be an Earthling....

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ThomM

12 years ago

It would also have none of the sun's gravity to hold it in orbit, so it and all the other planets, moons, asteroids, comets, etc, would "fly" around.

Gravity is something I've always found interesting. For something that effects all mass in the universe and something we have known about and studied for a long time, we still don't fully understand it.
Interesting article here about gravity. Where Does Gravity Come From?

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Gravity is something I've always found interesting. For something that effects all mass in the universe and something we have known about and studied for a long time, we still don't fully understand it.
Interesting article here about gravity. Where Does Gravity Come From?

Gravity is interesting...If there were no sun, the object with the next largest mass may have an impact on Earth. In this case, Earth would orbit Claude. Let's just hope this won't result in Claude giving us a "full moon".

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by salegurus

It would suck to be an Earthling....

Yep, would suck to be them.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Good point.

And with no sun , all plants would die that depend on photosynthesis, then all the animals that eat plants, assuming they didn't freeze first.

Speaking of the sun, happy first day of summer, especially for all of us that live in the N. hemisphere...

Couldn't we just stockpile nuclear weapons and explode one above a relatively fertile region on Earth to mimic daylight?

Obviously Earths Earth/space region would become highly radioactive, but it could provide the next best thing to a sun, at least for a few hundred years, (Australia has tons of it out back).

Obviously the artificial sun, would flicker from bright to dim, before the next one detonates, but it should be possible.

Well at least til we pull our resources and figure out how to get to the nearest star system, with another earth.

Or how to ignite Jupiters atmosphere, (a tall order with our level of tech,) and create another sun.

A couple of hundred black monoliths should do it!

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Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

The Earth travels around the Sun at a tad over 67,000 miles an hour. A sudden 90 degree change in direction at that speed.....

Well, I'm not sure we would have to worry about the whole "No daylight" issue.
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Gasen

12 years ago

If it dissapeared, so will all life.

However if it gradually diminishes, say over a few hundred thousand years, maybe life will adapt through evolution.

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lanfear63 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Gasen

If it dissapeared, so will all life.

However if it gradually diminishes, say over a few hundred thousand years, maybe life will adapt through evolution.

All life on the surface would die within a few weeks, there would be no adaptation. Any humans holed up underground may survive for a time given that they have heat and light and air and food and water. That will be very brief.

Possibly underneath the miles of ice covering the earth there will be some liquid water and it will be warmed by the earths internal heat deep down, some crude microbial life may survive and flourish. That's all!

Given the zillion to one chance that the earth does eventually get caught up in a stars gravity and go in to orbit at the right distance and the star is the right size and type their is a vague possibility it would warm the Earth and life could start up.

I suspect the moon that would still be orbiting the earth would have long de-stabilised it's orbit long before then and crashed into the earth. The sun does exert some gravitational pull on the moon as well and the effect of it vanishing would be a factor.
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- Frank Donovan 12 years ago
  
  I'm taking no chances. I've just put my solar-powered calculator on eBay.
  
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  Richard Van 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan
  
  I'm taking no chances. I've just put my solar-powered calculator on eBay.
  
  Frank,
  
  Barely a day goes past without someone calling me or telling me to attach hideously ugly solar panels all over my roof for an eye watering price I should make back in about 15 years assuming nothing breaks, goes wrong or some nob throws a stone at it.
  
  Do these people not realise the Sun could just vanish like Lord Lucan?
  
  I think if it does vanish, it'll be on the moon with Elvis.
  
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chavez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Everything would die.

1 Plants which rely on photosynthesis would die first.
2 Then herbivores which rely on plants to survive, would die.
3 Then carnivores which rely on herbivores to survive would die.
4 Then omnivores, including humans, would die.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Yup, to all of it.

And, although some of us may survive underground, on stored food, for a while....it would be the end for every living thing on Earth.

Originally Posted by Gasen

If it dissapeared, so will all life.

However if it gradually diminishes, say over a few hundred thousand years, maybe life will adapt through evolution.

Gee, I wish some of you guys sometimes watched science documentaries. Science is such a wonderful thing. There are at least 4 different lifeforms on our earth alone. Only plants and oxygen based lifeforms will die without sun.
HOw abuot the Black Smokers? The life down there is totally independant of sun. How come you never heard of them?

Black Smokers | National Geographic Channel

They will die if the ocean freeses completely, but thet cant happen. They live as long as there is geothermal energy.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by chavez

Gee, I wish some of you guys sometimes watched science documentaries. Science is such a wonderful thing. There are at least 4 different lifeforms on our earth alone. Only plants and oxygen based lifeforms will die without sun.
HOw abuot the Black Smokers? The life down there is totally independant of sun. How come you never heard of them?

Black Smokers | National Geographic Channel

They will die if the ocean freeses completely, but thet cant happen. They live as long as there is geothermal energy.

If you watched a few more science shows you may better understand thermodynamics. There's too many possibilities for most of us to really know what would happen for sure, but it's possible that due to no heat from the sun and temps approaching absolute zero, the oceans would freeze solid almost completely.

If this happens, it could create a "pressure cooker" scenario for the heat vents you describe, by not allowing the heat and pressure to escape. This would result in the temperatures and pressures around these heat vents to dramatically increase. They could rise higher than the tolerance of your black smokers.

Or maybe the earth would break up due to earthquakes or collide with other bodies due to no orbit.

It's possible deep sea life or subterrainian life could survive. It's also possible it wouldn't.

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chavez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

If you watched a few more science shows you may better understand thermodynamics. There's too many possibilities for most of us to really know what would happen for sure, but it's possible that due to no heat from the sun and temps approaching absolute zero, the oceans would freeze solid almost completely.

If this happens, it could create a "pressure cooker" scenario for the heat vents you describe, by not allowing the heat and pressure to escape. This would result in the temperatures and pressures around these heat vents to dramatically increase. They could rise higher than the tolerance of your black smokers.

Or maybe the earth would break up due to earthquakes or collide with other bodies due to no orbit.

It's possible deep sea life or subterrainian life could survive. It's also possible it wouldn't.

You probably think scientists are mad for even proposing there can be liquid ocean under the ice of Europa? They should probably ask you. You seem to know better, sir.
Europa (moon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course there is no way that this pressure can escape creating those huge vapor plumes like NASA detectred on Europa. This can't happen on our planet?

No orbit? ah you are talking about sun magically disappear. I was thinking more in science terms, if it burns out, becomes a dead star it still retains it's mass, unless it explodes. In this case it wipes out the Earth, therefor the discussion is useless any way.

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Frank Donovan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by chavez

No orbit? ah you are talking about sun magically disappear. I was thinking more in science terms, if it burns out, becomes a dead star it still retains it's mass, unless it explodes. In this case it wipes out the Earth, therefor the discussion is useless any way.

You probably skipped over the bit in the video that said this was simply a thought experiment, but you should, at least, have noticed that other posters in the thread have managed to make their points without being antagonistic.

.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by chavez

You probably think scientists are mad for even proposing there can be liquid ocean under the ice of Europa? They should probably ask you. You seem to know better, sir.
Europa (moon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course there is no way that this pressure can escape creating those huge vapor plumes like NASA detectred on Europa. This can't happen on our planet?

No orbit? ah you are talking about sun magically disappear. I was thinking more in science terms, if it burns out, becomes a dead star it still retains it's mass, unless it explodes. In this case it wipes out the Earth, therefor the discussion is useless any way.

Here's the first fallacy in your argument...it's known as a strawman fallacy and used by people that don't have logical arguments. I'm neither mad nor do I disagree with these scientific theories. Not sure what you need to make things up?

And for your next fallacy, which is non-sequtor, even Europa gets quite a bit of heat from the sun. Without our sun, both Earth and Europa would completely freeze as they approach absolute zero, including making their molten cores solid. It would simply be a matter of time. But since you watched a documentary on TV, please tell us how much time this would take?

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chavez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

This would result in the temperatures and pressures around these heat vents to dramatically increase. They could rise higher than the tolerance of your black smokers.

By the way the tolerance for DNA based life is 42.35 degrees Celsius. If body temperature go above, the DNA "melts" and the organisms die. Therefor "my" black smokers already know how to go beyond the "tolerance" level. They live in environment hotter than 100C.

Can you tell me, what is the specific temperature you are talking aboat?

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by chavez

By the way the tolerance for DNA based life is 42.35 degrees Celsius. If body temperature go above, the DNA "melts" and the organisms die. Therefor "my" black smokers already know how to go beyond the "tolerance" level. They live in environment hotter than 100C.

Can you tell me, what is the specific temperature you are talking aboat?

Can you tell me the specific temperature? You're the one making the claim. And while you're at it, what is the specific temperature their food can survive?

However, at high pressure, water/steam can get much hotter than a mere 100C.

At 800 psi, a typical pressure for steam powered ships, the temp of saturated steam is 170 c or 338 f. And, I'd bet the pressures of frozen oceans could contain would be much higher than a typical boiler on a steam powered vessle. It wouldn't surprise me if the pressure wouldn't be great enough to double or even triple that temperature.

Since you haven't discovered Google yet, here's a table that lists the temps of saturated steam at various atmospheres:
Properties of Saturated Steam - Imperial Units

Another possibility exists and that's the frozen oceans could cool the vents to the point below the tolerance level for your black smokers and/or their food.

Or, due to an enclosed environment toxins will build killing your black smokers and/or their food.

Again, none of us here on this thread can be certain what would happen, except you of course. After all, you did watch a documentary on TV.

PS...It may even be the pressure that kills them by squishing your black smokers to death and not the temps. What's the exact maximum pressure your black smokers can withstand before they implode? Or if the oceans cool, what's the minimum pressure they can withstand before they explode?

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chavez

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Can you tell me the specific temperature? You're the one making the claim. And while you're at it, what is the specific temperature their food can survive?

However, at high pressure, water/steam can get much hotter than a mere 100C.

At 800 psi, a typical pressure for steam powered ships, the temp of saturated steam is 170 c or 338 f. And, I'd bet the pressures of frozen oceans could contain would be much higher than a typical boiler on a steam powered vessle. It wouldn't surprise me if the pressure wouldn't be great enough to double or even triple that temperature.

Since you haven't discovered Google yet, here's a table that lists the temps of saturated steam at various atmospheres:
Properties of Saturated Steam - Imperial Units

Another possibility exists and that's the frozen oceans could cool the vents to the point below the tolerance level for your black smokers and/or their food.

Or, due to an enclosed environment toxins will build killing your black smokers and/or their food.

Again, none of us here on this thread can be certain what would happen, except you of course. After all, you did watch a documentary on TV.

PS...It may even be the pressure that kills them by squishing your black smokers to death and not the temps. What's the exact maximum pressure your black smokers can withstand before they implode? Or if the oceans cool, what's the minimum pressure they can withstand before they explode?

Are you trying to insult me? Such behaviour is unacceptable for me. I am sorry, but you are not worth my reply. If this is your way to discuss things, talk with some one else.

P.S. I believe we can all now agree that ALL life will disappear if the sun burns out.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by chavez

Are you trying to insult me? Such behaviour is unacceptable for me. I am sorry, but you are not worth my reply. If this is your way to discuss things, talk with some one else.

P.S. I believe we can all now agree that ALL life will disappear if the sun burns out.

I'm not worth a reply, but you replied anyway. You're too funny! Unitentionally of course, but still funny.

And, hipocritical too. You cry about insults, while your first post on this thread was:

Gee, I wish some of you guys sometimes watched science documentaries. Science is such a wonderful thing. There are at least 4 different lifeforms on our earth alone. Only plants and oxygen based lifeforms will die without sun.
HOw abuot the Black Smokers? The life down there is totally independant of sun. How come you never heard of them?

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

It's possible deep sea life or subterrainian life could survive. It's also possible it wouldn't.

It would survive longer (assuming the planet wasn't destroyed in the immediate shift in direction)

But all the examples of other moons and planets having liquid water, includes heat from the sun. It also includes heat generated from the strong warping from the gravitational pull of the host planet.

We don't have either (in this scenario), heat from the sun, or strong gravity from a host planet generating heat. So it wouldn't take long for the crust to freeze solid, including the oceans.

Maybe there would be enough heat from vents on the ocean's floor...to support primitive life for awhile...

Originally Posted by lanfear63

We would never have enough time to build a spacecraft large enough to hold enough of us to matter. And where would we go? It would take hundreds of thousands of years to reach another planet around another star....assuming one was even found. We haven't found one yet.

These thoughts keep me warm at night......

Or would we!, If we had 75 years, possibly!

I saw that as a Special on TV. Honestly, I think it would take that long to convince a substantial portion of the planet to even believe it was happening. The political fights would go on for years. but maybe.

But that's a different scenario. It would still take eons to travel to a planet that could support life. As of yet, we haven't found anything. And the nearest Earthlike planet may be so far away, even if we did find one...that it simply would be impossible to survive the journey.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

It would survive longer (assuming the planet wasn't destroyed in the immediate shift in direction)

But all the examples of other moons and planets having liquid water, includes heat from the sun. It also includes heat generated from the strong warping from the gravitational pull of the host planet.

We don't have either (in this scenario), heat from the sun, or strong gravity from a host planet generating heat. So it wouldn't take long for the crust to freeze solid, including the oceans.

Maybe there would be enough heat from vents on the ocean's floor...to support primitive life for awhile...

Yep and I said as much in a post just above:

Originally Posted by Kurt

And for your next fallacy, which is non-sequtor, even Europa gets quite a bit of heat from the sun. Without our sun, both Earth and Europa would completely freeze as they approach absolute zero, including making their molten cores solid. It would simply be a matter of time.

"Heat" is a relative term, and while we may consider Europa to be "cold", it is still much "warmer" than absolute zero.

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Banned 12 years ago

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Banned 12 years ago

What Would Happen To The Earth If The Sun Dissapeared

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imbikinigirl

12 years ago

Why don't we just all wait a few billion years and we will certainly find out when our sun burns out? I'm pretty sure that any significant change in the sun's temp would be nearly instant catastrophe for the earth.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by imbikinigirl

Why don't we just all wait a few billion years and we will certainly find out when our sun burns out? I'm pretty sure that any significant change in the sun's temp would be nearly instant catastrophe for the earth.

Arrr, no, another science doc, showed that after the red giant phase, our sun would end up being a brown dwarf, (if l remember correctly) a dim and much smaller version of our current sun, then eventually it would emit no light, but still be dense enough to keep our solar systems planets in orbit.

But if the sun vanished, then our planets would be all over the place, some would fling off in all directions.

Mercery being the fastest, but some might eventually get could in Jupiters or Saturns orbits, And could end up being a rouge solar system, with no sun, until it hits a more conventional one!

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chavez

12 years ago

Sorry whateverpedia, Claude and Gasen if my suggestion to watch the documentary about the black smokers insulted you. It seems you have a good watchdog who will defend you by talking crap to new peopoe.

1) There were several people who insisted that all life will die.
2) I pointed out that some lifeforms are independent of sun.
3) It was followed by insults and a lot of guesswork.

I confess I also guessed that ocean cant freese, so it was my fault too. Bet it seems intelligent discussion about black smokers is impossible here.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by chavez

Sorry whateverpedia, Claude and Gasen if my suggestion to watch the documentary about the black smokers insulted you. It seems you have a good watchdog who will defend you by talking crap to new peopoe.

1) There were several people who insisted that all life will die.
2) I pointed out that some lifeforms are independent of sun.
3) It was followed by insults and a lot of guesswork.

I confess I also guessed that ocean cant freese, so it was my fault too. Bet it seems intelligent discussion about black smokers is impossible here.

Not at all. In fact, we could use another intelligent voice. Do you think we all agree with each other? Almost never.

But....acting like a jerk will get you ignored. (the reason I haven't addressed you yet), and eventually banned. So, just keep it friendly (which does not mean agreeing) and you'll find yourself in a rewarding discussion.

Let's add something here. The Earths crust is an excellent insulator of heat. That's why it's cool up here, and we have a liquid molten mantle. Water is a pretty poor insulator of heat. It's why we feel cold in water that is room temperature.

We have black smokers. But we also don't have a surface temperature of near absolute zero. If we did, I think the black smokers would heat a smaller amount of water to keep it from freezing.

Remember the Snowball Earth? And that was when we still had an active Sun heating our planet. Then, the surface was maybe 50 below zero......but without a Sun? How would a surface at 300-400 below zero affect the smokers? And on Snowball Earth, nearly all life was extinguished (according to fossil records).

Anyway, this is all just a thought experiment based on an impossible scenario.

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David Beroff 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Remember the Snowball Earth?

Like it was yesterday!
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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

It would survive longer (assuming the planet wasn't destroyed in the immediate shift in direction)

But all the examples of other moons and planets having liquid water, includes heat from the sun. It also includes heat generated from the strong warping from the gravitational pull of the host planet.

We don't have either (in this scenario), heat from the sun, or strong gravity from a host planet generating heat. So it wouldn't take long for the crust to freeze solid, including the oceans.

Maybe there would be enough heat from vents on the ocean's floor...to support primitive life for awhile...

But that's a different scenario. It would still take eons to travel to a planet that could support life. As of yet, we haven't found anything. And the nearest Earthlike planet may be so far away, even if we did find one...that it simply would be impossible to survive the journey.

Not eons, Claude, it could be done in less than 10 years. The number of ships that managed to get there is another matter, but if it was hundreds, then some would be sacrificed in order to get there fast enough, for it to be viable!

Remember this is similar to that movie, l can't think of the name of, (the one with the huge waves, and modern noahs ark ships) pretty desperate sutuation, so if 1000 starships were build, and 30 get destroyed by getting conventional rockets up to 75% lightspeed, then so be it!

Better than running out of food, and the ship getting to its destination with a 100,000 skeletons on board?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com.a...-science-nasa/

Granted this is too far away, but shows, that they are out there.

There should be closer ones, but l am too tired to go check!

Building a giant space or moon based telescope should allow us to directly see Earth type planets around the nearest suns, so pinning one down shouldn't be an issue!

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Not at all. In fact, we could use another intelligent voice. Do you think we all agree with each other? Almost never.

But....acting like a jerk will get you ignored. (the reason I haven't addressed you yet), and eventually banned. So, just keep it friendly (which does not mean agreeing) and you'll find yourself in a rewarding discussion.

Let's add something here. The Earths crust is an excellent insulator of heat. That's why it's cool up here, and we have a liquid molten mantle. Water is a pretty poor insulator of heat. It's why we feel cold in water that is room temperature.
.

True, you are new to this forum, and the written word can be construed or misinterpreted!

Last person who went off, had a thread full of smiley animated gifs, and more wisecracks, so go easy!

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Not eons, Claude, it could be done in less than 10 years. The number of ships that managed to get there is another matter, but if it was hundreds, then some would be sacrificed in order to get there fast enough, for it to be viable!

Remember this is similar to that movie, l can't think of the name of, (the one with the huge waves, and modern noahs ark ships) pretty desperate sutuation, so if 1000 starships were build, and 30 get destroyed by getting conventional rockets up to 75% lightspeed, then so be it!

Better than running out of food, and the ship getting to its destination with a 100,000 skeletons on board?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com.a...-science-nasa/

Granted this is too far away, but shows, that they are out there.

There should be closer ones, but l am too tired to go check!

Building a giant space or moon based telescope should allow us to directly see Earth type planets around the nearest suns, so pinning one down shouldn't be an issue!

True, you are new to this forum, and the written word can be construed or misinterpreted!

Last person who went off, had a thread full of smiley animated gifs, and more wisecracks, so go easy!

It would be 70 odd years before that nuclear explosion powered biosphere depicted in the documentary would get us to even the nearest star, so, it would be a token gesture at trying to survive as a race. Our children would be old and we would be dead before reaching it, our children's children would be the inheritors of what they would find. Not much of an option.

You had better get cracking with the ufo propulsion tech research. :-)

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craighakwins

12 years ago

Interesting... We'd probably get wiped out fast. No need to worry about how to survive, we won't survive without the sun. .

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

It would be 70 odd years before that nuclear explosion powered biosphere depicted in the documentary would get us to even the nearest star, so, it would be a token gesture at trying to survive as a race. Our children would be old and we would be dead before reaching it, our children's children would be the inheritors of what they would find. Not much of an option.

You had better get cracking with the ufo propulsion tech research. :-)

Hmmm, better watch my Stephen Hawking video again!

I know that the video doesn't address the unreliability issue, but tech, it does show, that achieving a worthwile percentage of light speed, to get there a lot quicker than 70 years, is possible.

It all boils down to time and resources, if some need to be sacrificed, then they do.

Maybe send a fleet on first, (the poor) then a second round of robotic ones, to clean up the mess, then send the rest.

UFO propolsion, hmmm, talk to the US gov, they already have light speed propulsion, but only use it for short bursts, since long distances, have collision issues!

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nmchant

12 years ago

Wow, this really is the 'anything goes' section, lol.

I wonder if the Flat Earth Society has addressed the subject yet...?

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HeySal 12 years ago

Originally Posted by nmchant

Wow, this really is the 'anything goes' section, lol.

I wonder if the Flat Earth Society has addressed the subject yet...?

Oh yes. They were called to get their view on the topic. They agree. If the sun were to just disappear, it would get extremely cold. They were not as worried about gravity as those with the idea of a spherical earth, however.
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squidface

Banned 12 years ago

We'd become a giant ice ball. At least winter sports would take off for a while

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SandraLarkin

Banned 12 years ago

Well automatic death for everything. Planet would probably turn into an ice ball.

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minhhiep

12 years ago

it's very dark =))
I'm not worth a reply, but you replied anyway. You're too funny! Unitentionally of course, but still funny.

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tagiscom 12 years ago

Yes, an update, from the best computer model, in Europe, we will have a good billion years before the sun adversary affects us!

This is from a science mag, l looked at today!

So nothing to worry about!
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AK779

12 years ago

we would move to another planet

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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by AK779

we would move to another planet

^ Post of the day.^

See people, it doesn't matter. The sun would go out and hey presto we'd build a spaceship, pack the worlds population in it and just bugger off to another galaxy where we'd just naturally breathe and set up a few Walmarts.

Piece of piss. Anyone could do it.

Claude would be going door to door selling martian vacuum cleaners and Shane would be selling fluffy bunny suits and talking in a cockney accent to take the piss out of me. I'd open the first of many of the "Richard and Dan" bars that would be on every street.

I wish the dam thing would just go out so we could get on with it.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

^ Post of the day.^

See people, it doesn't matter. The sun would go out and hey presto we'd build a spaceship, pack the worlds population in it and just bugger off to another galaxy where we'd just naturally breathe and set up a few Walmarts.

Piece of piss. Anyone could do it.

Claude would be going door to door selling martian vacuum cleaners and Shane would be selling fluffy bunny suits and talking in a cockney accent to take the piss out of me. I'd open the first of many of the "Richard and Dan" bars that would be on every street.

I wish the dam thing would just go out so we could get on with it.

You know me too well!

But in all honesty, we would go to Mars trash the place, put fast food outlets anywhere we could, and teach the clean, fit and intelligent aliens how to eat s***!

Oh, and we would make up crap about their children losing their teeth, so we could put Fluoride in their drinking water!

Mars population would be numbed, zombies in a matter of weeks!

Plans for invasion, me thinks!

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Richard Van

12 years ago

Here's a rather excellent video from that YouTube science guy VSauce on, what would happen if the sun disappeared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rltpH6ck2Kc

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Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Here's a rather excellent video from that YouTube science guy VSauce on, what would happen if the sun disappeared.

Excellent video. The surface froze slower than I imagined it would. But I hadn't thought of the atmosphere turning to raining air...and then snowflake-like air. The fact that the surface would cool down very rapidly at first, and then the cooling process would slow down....was counter-intuitive, I thought. But I see why that's how it would be...the mantle is still radiating heat.

Also, I thought that the Earth would turn at a 90 degree angle (pointing straight away from the Sun) rather than traveling in a straight line at a tangent from where the sun was.

Interesting. I also watched several of his other videos. Cool Beans.
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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Here's a rather excellent video from that YouTube science guy VSauce on, what would happen if the sun disappeared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rltpH6ck2Kc

Wow, Ive just had my (this) thread (what would happen to the earth if the sun dissapeared) hijacked by someone posting exactly the same video as I started it with. And then Claude praises him for posting it.

Thats it, I'm off to sulk and buy a new computer and lose my passwords for a few days! Sniff!

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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Wow, Ive just had my (this) thread (what would happen to the earth if the sun dissapeared) hijacked by someone posting exactly the same video as I started it with. And then Claude praises him for posting it.

Thats it, I'm off to sulk and buy a new computer and lose my passwords for a few days! Sniff!

Sorry chap. I genuinely didn't realise.

I was just on YT yesterday and saw it, it's only when I saw this I realised.

So.

Sorry all there's a really good video lanfears found at the start of the thread, do not skim this thread, see the video at the beginning and ignore the Dinlo called Richard Van who clearly had a senile moment a few posts back.

Interesting. I also watched several of his other videos. Cool Beans.

He has some excellent video's. For a complete geek he's extremlely entertaining to watch too.

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tagiscom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Here's a rather excellent video from that YouTube science guy VSauce on, what would happen if the sun disappeared.

Yep, just had a look, interesting!

So Earth could get into orbit around another solar system?

Obviously pretty long odd's of it, surviving or being close enough, which is good, considering we don't want a rouge planet with primitive life on our doorstep!

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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Yep, just had a look, interesting!

So Earth could get into orbit around another solar system?

Obviously pretty long odd's of it, surviving or being close enough, which is good, considering we don't want a rouge planet with primitive life on our doorstep!

Sorry Shane but read my post above yours. lanfears posted it in his OP. I was having a Jethro moment when I found it.

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Maureen Mathes

12 years ago

The sun is more than just a familiar security blanket. In a way, it's the glue that holds our solar system together. The thought of losing our sun is terrifying.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Maureen Mathes

The sun is more than just a familiar security blanket. In a way, it's the glue that holds our solar system together. The thought of losing our sun is terrifying.

And impossible. Sleep well.

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Wow, Ive just had my (this) thread (what would happen to the earth if the sun dissapeared) hijacked by someone posting exactly the same video as I started it with. And then Claude praises him for posting it.

Thats it, I'm off to sulk and buy a new computer and lose my passwords for a few days! Sniff!

Well......truth be told, I didn't watch the video when you first posted it. I didn't know it was the same video.

Forgive me, my young apprentice.

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What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?

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Steven Wagenheim 12 years ago

Every radio station would be playing R.E.M.

R.E.M. - It's The End Of The World - YouTube
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