The Face of an Abusive Parent

12 years ago

I remember seeing this a while ago, might even have been here but I think it's safe to say that Mum has some anger management issues or she forgot to take her happy pills that day.

That phone call must have been important to as it came before the kids head injury.

Of course she may have been ordering those happy pills she'd forgotten.

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ThomM 12 years ago

Parents like this have no Right to be........well parents !

That type of thinking is part of the problem. Nobody has a right to be a parent. A right doesn't require action of another person. It's actually a privilege to be a parent, as being a parent requires action of another person and it can be taken away from you.
Maybe if more people understood that there would be less abusive parents.
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- Kay King 12 years ago
  
  That was stupidity but I don't think it was deliberate cruelty. The girl should NOT have been standing in the cart so the mother was negligent all around.
  
  However, the person off camera who just kept shouting and screaming wasn't helping. With all the adults throwing tantrums, the poor kid was ignored.
  
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  discrat 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  That was stupidity but I don't think it was deliberate cruelty.
  
  Actually, I think it was cruelty and a deliberate action. Not just negligent.
  
  If you closely monitor the video you can observe the lackadaisical and uncaring reaction of the mother the moment the child fell from the cart. By this alone, you can deduce this was quite deliberate and cruel.
  
  She knew exactly what she did and got exactly what she wanted when her child tumbled.
  
  Unfortunately for her, she just got busted by Big Brother for her cruelty. And then flew in a rage when she got caught
  
  I would have thrown the Cart aside and quickly picked up my baby girl to see if she was alright if I was just being negligent and not careful.
  
  This mother ( if want to call her that) could of cared less !
  
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  Kay King 12 years ago
  
  I'm not going to argue a video of people I don't know having an incident in a place I've never been.
  
  I have seen abuse of a child in public - and I didn't stand screaming at the mother. I followed them home, got the address - and went to the police station. I hope it helped the child but I'll never know.
  
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  discrat 12 years ago
  
  You know after viewing this a few more times I think we are fooling ourselves if we think our outrage is over the child tumbling or the ensuing rage by the Mom
  
  I think what is striking a chord with most of us, in a subliminal way, is the totally uncaring attitude of the Mom the moment it happened.
  
  Just look at it, it does not make sense. Her reaction that is. Us parents know that automatic switch in our head goes off when our babies are in trouble.
  
  Like when I was a kid every time my mom had to Brake hard in the car she would automatically put her arm across my body in the seat I was in. She said it was an involuntary motion or reflex to protect me.
  
  Inexplicably, I do not see this Mom's reflex to protect her child here. That is troublesome !
  
  My conclusion : Something of a sinister nature might dwell there
  
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  Kay King 12 years ago
  
  The video is at least 2 years old - why would you want to watch it multiple times?
  
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  discrat 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  The video is at least 2 years old - why would you want to watch it multiple times?
  
  Huh ?? Relevance ? Your statement makes no sense
  
  John F Kennedy Zapruder video is over 50 years old
  
  People rightfully still view it multiple times. ( Of course this is not as dramatic or important. But still same principle)
  
  ( Note :Or maybe you just want to overtly 'skim' over my issue and the point I raise because of hard feelings..I don't know? But you being a Mother, I found it odd that you couldn't find something else within that particular Post that you would find interesting enough or something you could relate to enough... to comment on, besides wondering why someone would view a 2 yr. old video multiple times. Geesh! )
  
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  Dennis Gaskill 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Inexplicably, I do not see this Mom's reflex to protect her child here. That is troublesome !
  
  My conclusion : Something of a sinister nature might dwell there
  
  I agree her initial reaction seemed to lack a mother's compassion, but...
  
  The mother was rubbing the back of her child's head while she was being belittled. I think that was instinctual.
  
  Saying something "sinister" may dwell there is quite a leap, to me.
  
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Mikaedi

12 years ago

That poor kid having to put up with a loser Mother like that.. she should be friggin steralized to prevent her from ever having kids

Having children is A Privilege not a right!.seems this woman thinks abusing her kids is ok?? hmm

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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

I'm going play Devil's Advocate here and say that being a parent isn't a privilege, but an inherent right and responsibility.

A privilege is something granted to someone by someone or something else. Procreation is one of the basest parts of being alive, an inherent birthright, so to speak. Considering procreation a privilege - that can be taken away - is a slippery slope toward removal of our basic freedoms.

However, with that right comes responsibility, the most important responsibility we have.

My two cents.

Although, we could split hairs, I guess, and state there's a difference between being able to procreate and being a parent. Still a slippery slope in my mind.

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

I'm going play Devil's Advocate here and say that being a parent isn't a privilege, but an inherent right and responsibility.

A privilege is something granted to someone by someone or something else. Procreation is one of the basest parts of being alive, an inherent birthright, so to speak. Considering procreation a privilege - that can be taken away - is a slippery slope toward removal of our basic freedoms.

However, with that right comes responsibility, the most important responsibility we have.

My two cents.

Although, we could split hairs, I guess, and state there's a difference between being able to procreate and being a parent. Still a slippery slope in my mind.

A right is something that doesn't require another person. You have a right to free speech because that doesn't require anyone else, same with practicing a religion. You have aright to own property, but buying any type of property is a privilege. Technically speaking owning anything is a right, but if you have to purchase it to own it, that is a privilege and if someone forces another to give it to you then it's an entitlement.
Any time anything requires the action of another under their free will it becomes a privilege.
So having a child is not a right by any stretch, but a privilege.
It takes two to have a child, one person has to give another person something for a child to be conceived. That right there makes it a privilege. No person has the right to take something from another person. A woman does not have the right to a mans sperm, just as no man has a right to a womans eggs.

A privilege is something granted to someone by someone or something else.

That right there is what makes a child a privilege and not a right.

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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

A right is something that doesn't require another person. You have a right to free speech because that doesn't require anyone else, same with practicing a religion. You have aright to own property, but buying any type of property is a privilege. Technically speaking owning anything is a right, but if you have to purchase it to own it, that is a privilege and if someone forces another to give it fto you then it's an entitlement.
Any time anything requires the action of another under their free will it becomes a privilege.
So having a child is not a right by any stretch, but a privilege.
It takes two to have a child, one person has to give another person something for a child to be conceived. That right there makes it a privilege. No person has the right to take something from another person. A woman does not have the right to a mans sperm, just as no man has a right to a womans eggs.
That right there is what makes a child a privilege and not a right.

Tom, the right to reproduce is one of the most basic human rights.

This wiki entry explains what I'm saying:

(For some reason I can't paste on my phone. I'll add the link later. In the meantime, a simple Google search for "reproductive rights" provides a good deal of opposition to your interpretation. )

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Tom, the right to reproduce is one of the most basic human rights.

This wiki entry explains what I'm saying:

(For some reason I can't paste on my phone. I'll add the link later. In the meantime, a simple Google search for "reproductive rights" provides a good deal of opposition to your interpretation. )

I just read some of the wiki entry, seems they don't understand the difference between a right and a privilege either.
Lets look at this statement.

The human rights of women include their right to have control over and decide freely and responsibly on matters related to their sexuality, including sexual and reproductive health, free of coercion, discrimination and violence. Equal relationships between women and men in matters of sexual relations and reproduction, including full respect for the integrity of the person, require mutual respect, consent and shared responsibility for sexual behavior and its consequences

Now those are rights, but notice it doesn't mention the right to have a child, but instead hints that it is a consequence that requires shared responsibility.
No matter how you word it, I don't have the right to use a womans ovaries to produce a child unless she freely gives me permission to do so, nor does a woman have a right to my sperm to produce a child unless I freely give my permission. As soon as that permission is given it becomes a privilege for the other person to receive it.
There are other things in that wiki article they call rights which are actually privileges.
Nothing you receive from another person is a right, but a privilege.
That's one of the big problems in this world. People, governments, and the U.N. confuse rights with privileges and entitlements.
Anything you can do without the assistance of another person is a right. Anything you need the assistance of another person for is a privilege, and anything that requires the assistance of another person, but that assistance requires any type of force is an entitlement.
So things like free speech, owning property, practicing your religion, even determining if you want to live or die is a right as they don't require anyone else.
Giving birth, getting married, buying anything is a privilege because it requires another person to give you something in exchange for something by mutual consent.
Welfare, "free" birth control, taxes, are entitlements as they require someone giving something to another under force or the threat of force.

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discrat 12 years ago

Damn, you and Riffle got your own thing going on ,huh ?
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- ThomM 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Damn, you and Riffle got your own thing going on ,huh ?
  
  One of my favorite subjects has always been rights, privileges, and entitlements
  We have the right to pursue just about anything.
  But often it is a privilege to obtain what you pursue.
  Having children is one of those situations.
  Sure everybody has the right to pursue having a child.
  But because it evolves two people giving their consent to each other the act of conceiving is a privilege.
  Also because raising a child requires (at least) one person providing for the life of another person, that makes raising a child a privilege.
  
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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I just read some of the wiki entry, seems they don't understand the difference between a right and a privilege either.
Lets look at this statement.

Now those are rights, but notice it doesn't mention the right to have a child, but instead hints that it is a consequence that requires shared responsibility.
No matter how you word it, I don't have the right to use a womans ovaries to produce a child unless she freely gives me permission to do so, nor does a woman have a right to my sperm to produce a child unless I freely give my permission. As soon as that permission is given it becomes a privilege for the other person to receive it.
There are other things in that wiki article they call rights which are actually privileges.
Nothing you receive from another person is a right, but a privilege.
That's one of the big problems in this world. People, governments, and the U.N. confuse rights with privileges and entitlements.
Anything you can do without the assistance of another person is a right. Anything you need the assistance of another person for is a privilege, and anything that requires the assistance of another person, but that assistance requires any type of force is an entitlement.
So things like free speech, owning property, practicing your religion, even determining if you want to live or die is a right as they don't require anyone else.
Giving birth, getting married, buying anything is a privilege because it requires another person to give you something in exchange for something by mutual consent.
Welfare, "free" birth control, taxes, are entitlements as they require someone giving something to another under force or the threat of force.

Thom, I have to side with the United Nations definition over yours:

Right to Marriage and Family

Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

Basic human right.

Right to a family

The family is the fundamental and natural unit of society and requires the full protection of the state. Human rights law upholds the positive right of all peoples to marry and found a family.

Marriage Equality | Amnesty International USA

The right of adults to enter into consensual marriage is enshrined in international human rights standards.

(Technically, AI uses the same definition as the UN.)

The United Nations, The Human Rights Education Association, and Amnesty International better fire all of their legal counsel, because they don't agree with your interpretation either.

Here's where I think we're getting crossed here. It would be a privilege for me to have a child with Jessica Biel. It's my right to have children in general. I don't have the right to have a child with whoever I well please. It's takes consent. But I do have the right to have a child with whoever (of consenting age) allows me past the goalie. That is not a privilege - it's not something anyone can (or should be able to) take away from me.

But because it evolves two people giving their consent to each other the act of conceiving is a privilege.

Here's precisely where we disagree. I don't agree with your stance something becomes a privilege simply because it requires consent or outside forces. Two individuals have the right to come together to procreate, you've basically said as much. Simply because they require each other to fulfill their individual rights doesn't convert their individual rights into a group privilege.

Either way, the woman in the video is a whackadoodle.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

I watched about 30 seconds and couldn't watch more. The black woman off camera was shouting, making accusations. I saw no abuse. Maybe poor judgement.

Why in the world was someone videoing the event in the first place?

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TimPhelan 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I saw no abuse. Maybe poor judgement.

Yes, I think it's more a case of child endangerment. Hmm, which perhaps is a form of abuse also?
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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I watched about 30 seconds and couldn't watch more. The black woman off camera was shouting, making accusations. I saw no abuse. Maybe poor judgement.

Why in the world was someone videoing the event in the first place?

Evidently, from what the black women said she had been yelling incessantly for awhile at her child. So it must have been to a degree that the women thought to whip out her Smart phone and start taping

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Evidently, from what the black women said she had been yelling incessantly for awhile at her child. So it must have been to a degree that the women thought to whip out her Smart phone and start taping

I didn't see the woman screaming at the kid or see what the kid was doing. Yelling across a room at someone like that doesn't give me feelings that the woman yelling was any too stable herself.

I was out with a parent last weekend that drove me nuts bitching at her son. I wanted to tell her to STFU and smack him. Of course, he wasn't going to do what she said. He knew all she was going to do is bitch. He had her completely tuned out. She might have been irritating, but the kid might have been being irritating, too. I'd have to see what was going on to know. I only saw what the video showed and it didn't show any abuse.

Did you see the way that kid fell out of the basket? LOL. Uncoordinated as hell. It's no doubt she's got a broken bone. If that was her reaction to falling, it's not the last one she's gonna get either. I've seen toddlers handle falls better than that.

When I was 15 months old, I found a bobby pin on the floor and crammed it through my right ear - destroyed the eardrum and put a hole in my inner ear. My mother was neither careless or abusive. Nor was our house dirty. It was just something that got dropped and I found it before she did. Injuries do not always point to abuse. I imagine that the mother was able to see the kid on the floor - we could not. She could probably tell it was not a serious fall. I can't imagine my mom or dad going apeshyte every time I whacked myself. I didn't fall out of baskets. I fell out of trees and off horses and other livestock (and mom bitched at me to stay off the animals every time we went to a farm and it did not one iota of good).

I can understand concern for a kid. I see what happened as careless on the mother's part and uncoordinated on the kid's part. I imagine that the woman might have been yelling at the kid earlier. It's not like it's allowed to reach over and smack a kid to make it mind anymore. What would the reaction been if mom would have smacked that kid for standing up in the cart? Same thing - yell about abuse.

All this conversation about this video does is make me wonder how kids ever grow up as smothered as they are now and how the hell we manage to have parents that aren't in jail and still have kids the DHS hasn't "confiscated".

The kid fell. It's obviously fallen before and it's a safe bet it's gonna do it again. Let's go stick mom in jail and take her kid right now. Guess what. The kid's still gonna fall again. She's oxy.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I didn't see the woman screaming at the kid or see what the kid was doing. Yelling across a room at someone like that doesn't give me feelings that the woman yelling was any too stable herself.

I was out with a parent last weekend that drove me nuts bitching at her son. I wanted to tell her to STFU and smack him. Of course, he wasn't going to do what she said. He knew all she was going to do is bitch. He had her completely tuned out. She might have been irritating, but the kid might have been being irritating, too. I'd have to see what was going on to know. I only saw what the video showed and it didn't show any abuse.

THIS video clearly showed abuse. The child was dumb for doing this, but the mother encouraged it. The MOTHER pulled the cart away apparently KNOWING the girl was there. She cared more about her CALL than the girl!

Did you see the way that kid fell out of the basket? LOL. Uncoordinated as hell. It's no doubt she's got a broken bone. If that was her reaction to falling, it's not the last one she's gonna get either. I've seen toddlers handle falls better than that.

There were a number of things going on, and she may have had other things.

When I was 15 months old, I found a bobby pin on the floor and crammed it through my right ear - destroyed the eardrum and put a hole in my inner ear. My mother was neither careless or abusive. Nor was our house dirty. It was just something that got dropped and I found it before she did. Injuries do not always point to abuse.

As I said, humans are BORN incompetent. Your mother couldn't watch you 100% of the time. That problem was something YOU unfortunately did. When we were kids, such things were around. They apparently did studies and found that HUMANS are about the MOST incompetent of all primates for the largest part of their childhood. So the parents have that much more to do just to have the child be able to survive at a substandard level. I forget how much longer the period was. It was likely on the order of a couple years.

I imagine that the mother was able to see the kid on the floor - we could not. She could probably tell it was not a serious fall. I can't imagine my mom or dad going apeshyte every time I whacked myself. I didn't fall out of baskets. I fell out of trees and off horses and other livestock (and mom bitched at me to stay off the animals every time we went to a farm and it did not one iota of good).

More examples of things YOU had more of a part in. HERE, it was the MOTHER'S doing!

I can understand concern for a kid. I see what happened as careless on the mother's part and uncoordinated on the kid's part. I imagine that the woman might have been yelling at the kid earlier. It's not like it's allowed to reach over and smack a kid to make it mind anymore. What would the reaction been if mom would have smacked that kid for standing up in the cart? Same thing - yell about abuse.

HOW could the kid be reasonably more coordinated to not have fallen? It looks like something behind her pokinginto the area behind where she was standing, swiped her legs. That may also explain why the hulahoop didn't fly off the cart.

All this conversation about this video does is make me wonder how kids ever grow up as smothered as they are now and how the hell we manage to have parents that aren't in jail and still have kids the DHS hasn't "confiscated".

The kid fell. It's obviously fallen before and it's a safe bet it's gonna do it again. Let's go stick mom in jail and take her kid right now. Guess what. The kid's still gonna fall again. She's oxy.

I think you mean CPS, though I think each state may name it differently. Still, I don't think they do a decent job AT ALL! MOST times they DO over react. MANY times, they don't do enough.

Steve

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Mikaedi

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I watched about 30 seconds and couldn't watch more. The black woman off camera was shouting, making accusations. I saw no abuse. Maybe poor judgement.

Why in the world was someone videoing the event in the first place?

Your definition of abuse is way off beam Claude..Abuse does not have to be physical. the very nature of the woman screaming at her child in such an uncontrolled manner was verbal abuse..look at the child Claude! she certainly looks scared to me.

She needs to be friggin steralized to be prevented from having kids..unfortunately not all woman have maternal protective instincts. my ex wife is a classic example, at least she admitted it.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mikaedi

Your definition of abuse is way off beam Claude..Abuse does not have to be physical. the very nature of the woman screaming at her child in such an uncontrolled manner was verbal abuse..look at the child Claude! she certainly looks scared to me.

She needs to be friggin steralized to be prevented from having kids..unfortunately not all woman have maternal protective instincts. my ex wife is a classic example, at least she admitted it.

I watched the first 30 seconds, as I stated before. I saw no abuse in that time, except the black woman off camera screaming at the top of her lungs.

People yelling is frightening to me. It's a form of insanity, in my opinion. It's something I never understood. And I avoid it at all costs.

Also, making life changing judgments about someone you don't know....based on a quick video, scares me a little too. Let's get the torches and pitchforks.

Again, I only saw the first 30 seconds. And any kid would be scared if complete strangers were yelling at your mom.

Added a few minutes later; OK, I watched the whole thing. Happy? The mother was yelling at the insane black woman that was accusing her of child abuse. She wasn't yelling at her kid. Some of you people must be watching a different video. At the end she screamed. But in response to being screamed at herself.

Now I know why Shane wants to live on Mars.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

The mother was certainly careless, but I didn't see anything in there that smacked of abuse. As far as her reaction, it looked like the girl was back on her feet by the time the mother got turned around.

Sal's right. There's nothing in that girl's behavior that indicated any fear of Mom. She was definitely afraid about the yelling, but what child wants to be in the middle of a screaming match between multiple adults? Especially when one is a stranger.

I was more surprised that the first response of the woman off-camera was to jump on the mother, before checking to see if the child really was okay.

The screaming is just one more example of the extreme way people respond to things these days. Far too much of society has decided that anger is the response to any negative situation.

Case in point. I was on the thruway Thursday. 55 MPH zone, and I was doing probably 60, following a truck. The truck started slowing down, so I did too. The kids in the sports car behind me pulled into the left lane and when they went flying by, the passenger stuck his face and arm out the window and flipped me off. His expression was... not sane.

(In the "Karma's a b*tch" category, I saw them pulled over at the side of the road by state troopers a few minutes later.)

Irrational responses are the expected norm for a lot of people any more.

If you look at that video, the Mom was originally quiet and civil. She was trying to get to her daughter. The crazy woman saw that mild reaction and escalated. As soon as there were people in the middle and the "threat" was removed, Mom went back to being civil.

Hardly lunatic behavior.

I'm curious as to why someone was videoing that in the first place. And about whether knowing it was being recorded is part of why they all reacted as strongly as they did.

Paul

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If you look at that video, the Mom was originally quiet and civil.

Paul

Uhmmm..And there lies the outrage .

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I was more surprised that the first response of the woman off-camera was to jump on the mother, before checking to see if the child really was okay.

Paul

Hey Paul,
Are we watching the same video ? LOL

The first woman clearly came to little girls aid from the git go and the other woman was constantly asking the little girl whether she was "sure" she was ok.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The mother was certainly careless, but I didn't see anything in there that smacked of abuse.
Paul

Paul, I think your missing the point. It is not necessarily abuse that is taking part here . i do not think anyone here says the actual incident was straight out child abuse !

Rather it is the implication of possible abuse this child might be experiencing at some point of time at the hands of this mom.

The broken arm , the callous "I don't give a crap about my daughter falling" attitude the Mom exhibits is what is somewhat troublesome !

Of course it is all speculation.

But it is interesting nonetheless

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Sal's right. There's nothing in that girl's behavior that indicated any fear of Mom.

Paul

Sorry.... as a English man would say that is Rubbish ! Sal is wrong. I have personal seen remnants of child abuse and there is NO clearly defined characteristic that ALL children of abuse have.

Some are visibly leery of a parent who has been abusive while others are so brainwashed or have delusional patterns of processing information that you could never overtly tell they had fear of a parent who has been abusive.

The fact of the matter is there is no clear cut pattern in these cases.

P.S. Paul, sorry I do not mean to implement a "pick on Paul " day. But you just provided too much fodder for me to have self- control

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

I heard the "Are you sure" as the woman asking the Mom if she was sure she didn't do it on purpose. Could be wrong, but that was the impression I got.

That second woman was looking at the camera, not the kid.

i do not think anyone here says the actual incident was child abuse !

Perhaps I was confused by the thread title? Sure looks like that was the intended point.

This looks like just another example of taking small bits out of context and deciding to judge someone based on them. Like the frame that's used as the "cover" for the video. That expression on her face had nothing to do with the child at all, but that's used to generate outrage, which colors how the rest of the video is viewed.

Given the number of adrenalin factors in the situation, that video isn't anything on which to form any opinion at all. Much less to decide that this woman should be sterilized, which is so over the top it's just dumbfounding.

Paul

Edited to add: The title of the video itself is rather specific about claiming the mother abused and yelled at her child in Walmart. Neither of those things actually happened, at least not in this video.
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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Uhmmm..And there lies the outrage .
Of course it is all speculation.

Yes, and I'm glad you brought that up. We fill in the blanks when we see short videos or photos. We create stories out of quick snippets. And those stories (that we just make up) become part of what we see.
(This isn't directed just at you, but your post triggered the thought)

A broken arm means child abuse, what else could cause a broken arm?

And this woman is obviously evil..of course, most of that happened off camera...but we know it happened, didn't we?

Do you know what speculation means? It means we just made it up.

She was talking on the call phone, and let her daughter do something stupid, stand on a cart. And she wasn't paying attention.

Paul's mentioning that they may have been playing to the camera (the people yelling) sounds right. Especially the woman filming. The mother was an idiot. But she isn't alone.

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discrat

12 years ago

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Robert,

On the other side is the kid ends up dead in a gutter and people fly in an outrage asking why didn't we see the writing on the wall?

Wow. Just... wow.

The kid has a broken arm. Gee, I wonder if it might just be possible that her obvious involvement in athletics might be a more likely explanation for that than the contents of this video?

Look at how that young lady is dressed, Robert. Do you really think it's sensible to leap to the inference that Mom broke her arm? Or is in any other way abusive?

You want to believe she's a horrible mother, so that's what you're going to believe. That's fine, but asserting it the way you have based on the facts available is illogical, irrational, and irresponsible.

The interactions between the mother and child are completely different, and separate, from the way she responded to the hostile bystanders.

The only thing we can reasonably conclude from this video is that Mom doesn't respond well to people screaming at her in public.

The rest is just masturbatory self-righteousness.

Paul

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Robert,Wow. Just... wow.

The kid has a broken arm. Gee, I wonder if it might just be possible that her obvious involvement in athletics might be a more likely explanation for that than the contents of this video?

Look at how that young lady is dressed, Robert. Do you really think it's sensible to leap to the inference that Mom broke her arm? Or is in any other way abusive?

You want to believe she's a horrible mother, so that's what you're going to believe. That's fine, but asserting it the way you have based on the facts available is illogical, irrational, and irresponsible.

The interactions between the mother and child are completely different, and separate, from the way she responded to the hostile bystanders.

The only thing we can reasonably conclude from this video is that Mom doesn't respond well to people screaming at her in public.

The rest is just masturbatory self-righteousness.

Paul

Paul, "Wow " what ?? Calm down , Take a deep breath as you are reading way too much specificity into that statement I made about finding the kid in a gutter.

And thus your remarks about immorality and irresponsibility is to say the least a stretch

That was a general reference into what happens in our Society as it relates to Claude's statement he made about people speculating and looking at potential clues

Kind of the Catch 22 we ALL live in today.

You know hindsight being 20/20.

For instance, why didn't we see the way the kids in Aurora or Columbine "did this and did that" before the killing spree went on.

Think "General" terms about my statement not in "Specific terms" in this case

( iam not saying the girl would even have a small chance of being found dead in a gutter based on info. in video, but just for arguments sake want if she did. We then would all be looking back at this video and shaking our heads)

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Yes, and I'm glad you brought that up. We fill in the blanks when we see short videos or photos. We create stories out of quick snippets. And those stories (that we just make up) become part of what we see.
(This isn't directed just at you, but your post triggered the thought)

A broken arm means child abuse, what else could cause a broken arm?

And this woman is obviously evil..of course, most of that happened off camera...but we know it happened, didn't we?

Do you know what speculation means? It means we just made it up.

The flip side is the kid ends up dead in a gutter and people fly in an outrage asking why didn't we see the writing on the wall?

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

The flip side is the kid ends up dead in a gutter and people fly in an outrage asking why didn't we see the writing on the wall?

True; Every kid could end up in the gutter. Have you ever yelled at your kid? Has one of your kids ever had a broken bone? Has one of your kids ever tripped over one of your feet? Have you ever turned around, and accidentally knocked one of your kids down?

Well, to be safe, shouldn't we take your kid away? After all, eventually..couldn't they turn out badly? Isn't the writing on the wall? See how silly that sounds when it's about you and your kids?

People flt into an outrage because they are mentally unstable. At least that's my experience.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Robert,

"Calm down?" The only thing about this that annoys me is that I keep coming back and reading these reactionary threads. I should know better by this point than to try and offer a different perspective in OT. Too many people in this section are so sold on their own initial overreactions that discussing anything that relates to them is a pointless lesson in the communicative skills of brick walls.

Read your thread title. Read your OP. Read the title of the video.

If you're going to shift from the specific to the general in a situation like this, it's best to make that explicit.

I'm still dumbfounded at the fact that more people didn't immediately denounce the notion that the behavior in this video is grounds for sterilizing someone.

How any rational person can fail to see the extremist nature of that and speak out against it is just unfathomable to me.

Paul

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Robert,

Too many people in this section are so sold on their own initial overreactions that discussing anything that relates to them is a pointless lesson in the communicative skills of brick walls.
Paul

And the operative word being " initial". It goes way beyond an initial reaction. This Thread was started over 24 hours ago and I still have the same reaction I had over 48 hours ago when I first viewed it.

The thing is the word "over reaction" is a purely selective and opinionated assertion.

I think the days of Youtube and internet videos has numbed many of us to what is really outrageous incidents if we saw it in real Life.

For instance, I cannot recall in my 46 years of going to Piggly Wiggly , Wal mart, K-mart, Kroger , Sams seeing a girl tumble out of a cart quite like this with a reaction quite like this by a parent.

Paul, I think you are being blinded by the fact that you seen this stuff on Youtube and other videos so much ( particularly many that are posted in OT) that it is no big deal.

Trust me I get that way myself too.

Iam just curious if you were to actually see it happen exactly like this in real Life if you would be so incline to say it is an "over reaction" !

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Paul Myers 12 years ago

Robert,

Paul, I think you are being blinded by the fact that you seen this stuff on Youtube and other videos so much ( particularly many that are posted in OT) that it is no big deal.

Nope. I have made the conscious decision not to take short excerpts with little or no context as indications of whatever the title frame makes them look like.

I am almost to the point at which I don't form initial reactions at all. And I am as far from being desensitized as one can reasonably get when surrounded by people who think an unsupported implication is evidence.

Paul
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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

I'm still dumbfounded at the fact that more people didn't immediately denounce the notion that the behavior in this video is grounds for sterilizing someone.

How any rational person can fail to see the extremist nature of that and speak out against it is just unfathomable to me.

Paul

Me..I denounced it. Claude Whitacre. I read it...and denounced it. I was there first...in the denouncing department. I win...at denouncing. and I also spoke out against it...while denouncing it.

Sincerely,

Claude Whitacre
Master Denouncer.

PS I did not have to look up the word Unfathomable.

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Me..I denounced it. Claude Whitacre. I read it...and denounced it. I was there first...in the denouncing department. I win...at denouncing. and I also spoke out against it...while denouncing it.

Sincerely,

Claude Whitacre
Master Denouncer.

PS I did not have to look up the word Unfathomable.

I think your over denouncing. Specialist help is available on my newest fiverr gig for over-denouncers. All denouncer posts are denounced for a full year.

So been shopping and got some bargains. Sony Brava 32 inch tv for $199.00. A new sound bar and sub woofer (Samsung) for half price. $199.00, and a Roku box

I love the Roku box, picks up the internet and allows you to watch Netflix and loads of other internet streaming media on any tv.

Please do not try to denounce that.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I think your over denouncing. Specialist help is available on my newest fiverr gig for over-denouncers. All denouncer posts are denounced for a full year.

I'm overcompensating for a lifetime of non-denouncing. Sure, I ridiculed, made fun of, minimized, poked fun at, talked down to, condemned, criticized, attacked, censured, decried, reviled, vilified, discredited, damned, rejected, maligned, railed against.......

But until this very day.....I have never Denounced!

And I swear to you, from this day forward, I will add Denouncing to my plethora of critical attacks.

Imperious Rex!

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I'm overcompensating for a lifetime of non-denouncing. Sure, I ridiculed, made fun of, minimized, poked fun at, talked down to, condemned, criticized, attacked, censured, decried, reviled, vilified, discredited, damned, rejected, maligned, railed against.......

But until this very day.....I have never Denounced!

And I swear to you, from this day forward, I will add Denouncing to my plethora of critical attacks.

Imperious Rex!

I would like to suggest we call it Declauding. My post was completely Declauded. It means your sharp, venomously clawed post was trimmed back to nothing. Claude The Declauder

Myself, I will stick to Refuting.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I would like to suggest we call it Declauding. My post was completely Declauded. It means your sharp, venomously clawed post was trimmed back to nothing. Claude The Declauder

Myself, I will stick to Refuting.

I've been married for 26 years Believe me, I know what Declawed is like. And after 7 years with my first wife, I was very happy that she was finally DeClaude.

You and I are both so clever.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

EDIT:; That's not to say that I believe she'll be getting a mother of the year award any time soon. My initial reaction to what happened would have been to run to my kid who had just fallen off the cart and pick her up and see if she was injured. But actually, I wouldn't have allowed her to stand on a cart to start with. Maybe if she weren't so preoccupied with a cell phone, she might have been more attentive.

The banshees screaming at her were really annoying.

The more I think about it, the more I understand why the incident was recorded. It looked like an accident waiting to happen. Of course, nobody tried to stop it from happening. So, i think everyone got what they wanted. The little girl got scared by the banshees, the Mom got to become famous on Youtube, the banshees got to yell and scream.

And we got to see a few more posts that can be used as evidence in an insanity plea.

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ThomM 12 years ago

f you like the really quality session musicians, you might also enjoy Vasser Clements. A better fiddle player than Doug Kershaw or Charlie Daniels.

Seeing how this is more interesting then the original video, here's another underrated fiddle player I was lucky enough to see many years ago. I had the privilege of seeing Papa John Creach do this with Hot Tuna.

Hot Tuna - Keep On Truckin' - YouTube
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Midnight Oil 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Claude Whitacre
Master Denouncer.

You can't just dangle something like that out there and expect us to believe you're not just baiting with it.
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- Claude Whitacre 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Midnight Oil
  
  You can't just dangle something like that out there and expect us to believe you're not just baiting with it.
  
  I am forever a Master Denouncer. I will never be the Master Ba......Hey, you're trying to trick me!
  
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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Me..I denounced it. Claude Whitacre. I read it...and denounced it. I was there first...in the denouncing department. I win...at denouncing. and I also spoke out against it...while denouncing it.

Sincerely,

Claude Whitacre
Master Denouncer.

PS I did not have to look up the word Unfathomable.

Well, let's just call you Claude the Denouncer from here on out. I denounced it when conditions here at the chicken farm allowed the video to play so I could actually see what I was denouncing. Otherwise, it would just be Premature Denoucement. lol.

In reality, there's probably just as many people in this thread who didn't see abuse as those who saw abuse or interpreted what they saw as abuse.

EDIT:; That's not to say that I believe she'll be getting a mother of the year award any time soon. My initial reaction to what happened would have been to run to my kid who had just fallen off the cart and pick her up and see if she was injured. But actually, I wouldn't have allowed her to stand on a cart to start with. Maybe if she weren't so preoccupied with a cell phone, she might have been more attentive.

The banshees screaming at her were really annoying.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

The flip side is the kid ends up dead in a gutter and people fly in an outrage asking why didn't we see the writing on the wall?

That's a pretty big assumption based on that short little video. What that video tells me is that some people have way too much time on their hands and instead of shouting at people at a Walmart and video taping an incident of "this" caliber, they ought to be video taping and making public their own home lives. Might be interesting.

Anyone want to see the real face of abuse?

Anyone remember him? I sure do and his sick ass wife. His face doesn't look much different than anyone's face. Got 2 eyes, a nose, a mouth, 2 ears ... but he is a monster. A real monster. And talk about society missing the signals ... his daughter fell through cracks so wide ... unbelievable. Social services and police had been called numerous times about the abuse going on in that household and yet another child came to be adopted there.

Calling this the "face of abuse" without nothing but this video really is a stretch. I really don't see anything in this short video to make such an assumption. Any implication that her arm was broken by her mother is nothing but speculation and unfounded.

But I like the "privilege" argument Thom presented. The fact that people have a "right" to procreate and "right" to marry ...
if a guy (or girl) is butt ugly, has bad breath and stinking feet, and no one in their right mind would give them a second look, do they still have a right to marry or procreate? lol. Just something to think about.

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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

if a guy (or girl) is butt ugly, has bad breath and stinking feet, and no one in their right mind would give them a second look, do they still have a right to marry or procreate? lol. Just something to think about.

Sure, they still have the right. They just haven't had the opportunity.

However, there's hope for everyone. Case in point: Claude's been married twice.

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Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Sure, they still have the right. They just haven't had the opportunity.

However, there's hope for everyone. Case in point: Claude's been married twice.

You and I are not married, I keep telling you that.
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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Anyone remember him? I sure do and his sick ass wife. His face doesn't look much different than anyone's face. Got 2 eyes, a nose, a mouth, 2 ears ... but he is a monster. A

Yeah sometimes the face sure doesn't match the Sins, that's for sure !

Case and point : Here is another pair of brutal monsters and they did things that are so unspeakable to children it is just evilness incarnate !

And the sick *******s put it all on video tape. Wifey got out of prison a few years back much to the dismay of the people in Canada who thought she should have been executed as well as him.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pict...ml%3B166%3B240

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Midnight Oil

12 years ago

The most obvious example of abuse here is video channels like this and similar sites that exist only to exploit and profit from assault, bullying, harassment, hate, mental illness, pain, prejudice, racism, torture and anything else that appeals to the darkest corners of human nature.

World Star Ghetto . . . "just collecting and sharing some fun ghetto moments"

smdh

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Midnight Oil

The most obvious example of abuse here is video channels like this and similar sites that exist only to exploit and profit from assault, bullying, harassment, hate, mental illness, pain, prejudice, racism, torture and anything else that appeals to the darkest corners of human nature.

World Star Ghetto . . . "just collecting and sharing some fun ghetto moments"

smdh

Funny, the same exploitation for profit could be argued and applied to CBS, ABC ,and NBC News .
And they have been doing it for over a half century now.

If some " little" people make a bit of Adsense from these Horribly, Ungodly Channels or some other kind of ad revenue ....no harm done in my opinion if it brings some much needed awareness of some huge problems in our Society.

And make no mistake these topics you mention are major problems. Thank god for Youtube to let me people know how prevalent they really are

btw, these terrible channels you have mentioned have literally turned around convictions and put people in jail who have committed burglaries and assaults and many other deviant things. And otherwise they would never have been brought to justice without these clear cut videos for people to see.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

I see and hear people all the time complaining about the failures of modern education. Then I look at threads like this and realize... the problem is not new.

Specifically, the near total lack of critical thinking skills on the part of a few of the contributors. All of them far too old to justify this kind of sloppy rationalization.

For example: Steve... Being careless and pulling a cart is not the same thing as shoving a child in anger. They're both dangerous, but one is an act of malice, while the other is a lapse of attention.

People keep bringing up the broken arm and pointing to the woman's anger. That anger was never directed at the child in this video. A MUCH more plausible explanation for the injury is apparent though. The kid plays organized sports, as evidenced by her clothing.

Susan said:

The fact she flips out so much in a public place and in front of her children to intimidate the woman and frighten everyone around her proves she is a bully with huge anger issues and clearly does not care about much more than herself I wouldn't put it past her to do harm to others just out of wickedness

This is rife with unsupported assumptions. The fact that someone becomes hostile when put on the defensive this way does not in any way indicate "huge anger issues." Nor does it begin to prove the woman is maliciously violent.

Robert took the fact that I wasn't leaping to the same tall conclusion he was as suggestive of my being desensitized by all the nastiness. This is a classic example of assuming whatever seems to support your beliefs, and dismissing whatever doesn't.

I could count the number of people in this forum who know me well enough to make any judgement on that part of my personality on one hand. And I'd have enough finger left to express my response to that idea quite eloquently.

Here's a hint, Robert: When a person makes an active effort to look for possible alternative perspectives, that is a clue that they care enough to try and see the whole picture, with an eye toward understanding what's happening. Or at least avoiding unjust accusations.

If that's desensitized, I'll take it.

I would suggest that the tendency to assume the worst and make these kinds of extreme judgements based on such clearly skewed circumstances says more unpleasant things about the people making the comments than the video says about that woman.

Y'all're some angry feather pluckers.

Steve did bring up one interesting point that I'd missed. They could have been videoing because of the woman's supposedly "yelling at her kid the whole time." If that was the case, which could well be, this was an ambush video. That would explain the second woman's looking at the camera while supposedly making sure the child was okay.

It would explain everything that happened after the fall, in fact. Look at the video again, this time from the mother's perspective, with the idea that she was being ambushed.

I'd wager a bottle of the good stuff that most of the people jumping to conclusions in this thread would react about the same way that woman did.

A bottle of 18 year old Macallan says we'd lose Steve to a stroke or burst artery on the spot.

Paul

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Steve did bring up one interesting point that I'd missed. They could have been videoing because of the woman's supposedly "yelling at her kid the whole time." If that was the case, which could well be, this was an ambush video. That would explain the second woman's looking at the camera while supposedly making sure the child was okay.

I don't know if you are talking about me, but I don't even think I spoke about her nager.

A bottle of 18 year old Macallan says we'd lose Steve to a stroke or burst artery on the spot.

Paul

Yeah, I bet you would like that. Don't flatter anyone. If such a thing happened, it wouldn't be because of anyone on this system. I could blame that quack for not seeing it when he should have, or my weight, or my PHYSICALLY hectic life, but NOT the internet. I just am not affected in that way. Thie dissection happened after a VERY stressful day were I literally considered abandoning a rental car, and taking a taxi so I could make a flight. I DIDN'T do that, but almost missed my flight. Ironically, I had planned, and was promissed a vacation, and has to abort all plans on a saturday, and quickly fly to that project. When I got back, I was hoping I could finally have a vacation, and ended up spending half of it in the hospital, and the other half on my coach as a near invalid.

Anyway, I am surprised that I have lived as long as I have.

Steve

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

MO,

I think Clements' most popular stuff was on "Will the Circle be Unbroken," by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. IIRC, he did some nice work with "The Band," too.

Steve,

Yeah, I bet you would like that

No, Steve, I wouldn't. I would hate that.

Wouldn't break my heart if you came down with the digital equivalent of laryngitis once a month or so, though.

Paul

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Cali16

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

What assumption?

So we see this woman look away and talk on the phone as she moved the cart. If she assumed the girl INSTANTLY sat down safely, she is just DUMB! She obviously never bothered to look.

Steve, the assumptions to which I was referring in Susan's post were these:

1) "That woman yanked the trolley knowing full well her daughter was standing up in it."

Yes, the video does clearly show that the woman pulled the cart while her daughter was still standing. BUT, the assumption is that she "knew full well" that her daughter was still standing. THAT can't be proven by this video. Appearances don't tell the whole story.

Let me give an example. One day I absent mindedly put something in the refrigerator that belonged in the cupboard. Why? Because I was thinking about something else entirely. Now, if someone had videotaped me doing it, it would APPEAR that I "knew full well" what I was doing because it appeared I was looking at the item as I sat it on the refrigerator shelf. BUT, I wasn't really seeing it because my mind was elsewhere. It's a form of dissociation. Like when you drive several miles not even realizing how far you've gone because you're completely lost in your thoughts, and then you suddenly realize you missed a turn 3 miles back.

So, Susan (and others) are assuming that the woman did this intentionally. There is ZERO proof of that. ZERO. Was it "dumb" for the woman to pull the cart and not look first? Well, again, maybe. But she may simply have been distracted. Being distracted doesn't mean a person is dumb. We simply don't know and CAN'T know from that video. We also have no idea what the phone call was about. Perhaps it was her doctor's office calling her with biopsy results and that's why her attention wasn't on the girl at that moment, and why she stayed on the phone.... but we simply don't know. (I'm not assuming that's what the call was about, just presenting that as one of an infinite number of potential scenarios to provide a different perspective on her behavior.)

Several other assumptions Susan made:

2) The girl's mother was trying to intimidate the woman accusing her based on the fact that she "flips out so much".

It looked more like an angry reaction to me than intentional intimidation, but again, NONE of us knows what her intention was in that moment. To intimidate? To be heard (as she was being verbally attacked and, as Paul suggested, possibly "ambushed")? To get them to stop? (Remember, she didn't yell initially...)

3) The woman's "flipping out" proves she is a bully with huge anger issues.

No; it doesn't prove anything except that she got very angry in that situation. Many people get pretty angry when others start accusing them of something they feel is untrue. I'm sure a lot of parents would get very angry if a stranger starts yelling at them that they should "be reported". I'm not saying that justifies her screaming at the top of her lungs in a store. But what I am saying is that it doesn't prove anything about her character.

Susan (and many others in this thread) are making huge assumptions about this woman based on 100 seconds of her entire life. 100 seconds!!! That's absurd. We simply don't have enough information, and we certainly don't have the context. For all we know, the woman's mother might be terminally ill, the family dog just died, she just found out her husband is having an affair, and so on, so she took the kids shopping for a couple hours to get her mind off all the other stressful things happening in her life, and then THIS incident happens. Perhaps this was completely out of character for this woman; maybe it was the last straw in a series of negative events and she just lost it. Again, we don't know the whole story and we certainly don't know anything about this woman's life or her character.

4) "[She] clearly does not care about much more than herself".

Again, that is a ridiculous assumption. We don't know what this woman cares about. She may be a very unselfish, giving person 99% of the time. She may work two jobs to help keep food on the table and make sure her kids are clothed and that her daughter can play sports. She may be a single mom. Her husband may be ill and she's completely overwhelmed; the one taking care of everyone and everything. We certainly don't know what her priorities and values are based on this brief video.

The other over-the-top assumption made in this thread is that this woman is abusive.

Careless, maybe. Or, again, maybe just simply distracted. Abusive? She might be, but I certainly didn't get that from this video. The girl looked mortified, very likely due to the situation she was witnessing. I'm pretty sure most kids would be a bit frightened if someone was yelling at their mom, implying she's an unfit parent, and then seeing their mom get that upset.

Do you now see how the things I listed above are assumptions that many people in this thread are making about this woman? And that not one of them can be verified based on this 100-second video? My point isn't that all the assumptions are automatically wrong (I don't know if they are or aren't). My point is that we simply can't know based on this video alone.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

Let me give an example. One day I absent mindedly put something in the refrigerator that belonged in the cupboard. Why? Because I was thinking about something else entirely.

Oh dang, I had nearly forgotten...

I made a sandwich a couple weeks ago. After finishing it, I went to put the saucer in the sink, and there was the mayo, right in the sink where I apparently put it.

At least I didn't put the used knife in the fridge, I left it on the counter. I'm sure that's what I meant to put in the sink. In my defense, a jar of mayo and a butter knife with traces of mayo on it do look almost identical.

Getting older is so much fun!

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lanfear63 12 years ago

Not just absent minded but clumsy, After buying a nice new Sony 32 inch led flat panel tv that weighed about 2 ounces, for a song. The wife and I had the daunting task of getting the monster heavy 32 inch tube tv from 2004 that barely fitted into the hutch in the bedroom, out.

We got it onto the bed and then down onto a banana truck that laid flat (with just a couple of bruises) and wheeled it out to the living room to put by the fire place. Just a little closer I said and manuvered it sideways. Then the tv fell off, slightly damaging the wire mesh curtain arangment that goes accross the fireplace. It came to rest flat on its front.

The tube was flat though and slightly recessed so did not break. So perhaps it will still work.

We can sell it says the wife, who would want that I said! Anyone interested in an old square tv.
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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

MO,

I think Clements' most popular stuff was on "Will the Circle be Unbroken," by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. IIRC, he did some nice work with "The Band," too.

Steve,No, Steve, I wouldn't. I would hate that.

Wouldn't break my heart if you came down with the digital equivalent of laryngitis once a month or so, though.

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Midnight Oil

12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Funny, the same exploitation for profit could be argued and applied to CBS, ABC ,and NBC News .
And they have been doing it for over a half century now.

What exactly makes it funny?

Originally Posted by discrat

If some " little" people make a bit of Adsense from these Horribly, Ungodly Channels or some other kind of ad revenue ....no harm done in my opinion if it brings some much needed awareness of some huge problems in our Society.

"Horribly, Ungodly Channels?"

You seem offended for some reason that I brought it up.

So anything goes? There's no line of decency for you, for society, as far as graphic content is concerned and how others profit from it as long as it's to help build awareness?

Just how far down that road do you wish to travel as a society?

And, seriously? You think "World Star Ghetto" is somehow a noble venture attempting to bring awareness to huge problems in our society?

Originally Posted by discrat

And make no mistake these topics you mention are major problems. Thank god for Youtube to let me people know how prevalent they really are

If you say so. I know I don't need to see a kiddie porn site to let me know how prevalent that problem is.

Originally Posted by discrat

btw, these terrible channels you have mentioned have literally turned around convictions and put people in jail who have committed burglaries and assaults and many other deviant things. And otherwise they would never have been brought to justice without these clear cut videos for people to see.

For example?

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sbucciarel Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Funny, the same exploitation for profit could be argued and applied to CBS, ABC ,and NBC News . And they have been doing it for over a half century now.

.. and in just about every OT topic, there's numerous voices maligning the media ... they shouldn't report it if they don't have all the facts, and arguments that they are .... gosh ... oh no ... profiting from their news stories.

I have never been one to watch all those stupid videos on Youtube. That crap just doesn't interest me at all, but I watch the news daily and numerous channels for different perspectives on it.

I wonder who would be bitching if we lived in a country where the government could just black out any news reports that they don't want us to see or know about. Should the media just not report any crimes at all until all the facts are in and the court has made its ruling?

Freedom of the press is a fundamental right in this country, and even with the media competing with each other for the sensational headlines, I prefer being informed over not being informed.
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discrat 12 years ago

Yeah the two black women may have been a little too passionate.

But honestly when the girl fell ,,,the way the two black women reacted and ran to her aid is exactly the way I would react. I mean I would do that to any child , stranger or not. Let alone my own child.

It defies logic her reaction under any circumstance

And to be honest I think most Caring parents would act like the two women as far as running to her aid.
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TimPhelan

12 years ago

It seems, from the definitions I have read, that something can be a right and a privilege. For example:

1priv·i·lege noun ˈpriv-lij, ˈpri-və- : a right or benefit that is given to some people and not to others

: a special opportunity to do something that makes you proud ( This would be Dan getting past Jessica Beil's goalie )

: the advantage that wealthy and powerful people have over other people in a society

Privilege - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Thom, I have to side with the United Nations definition over yours:

Right to Marriage and Family

Basic human right.

Right to a family

Marriage Equality | Amnesty International USA

(Technically, AI uses the same definition as the UN.)

The United Nations, The Human Rights Education Association, and Amnesty International better fire all of their legal counsel, because they don't agree with your interpretation either.

Here's where I think we're getting crossed here. It would be a privilege for me to have a child with Jessica Biel. It's my right to have children in general. I don't have the right to have a child with whoever I well please. It's takes consent. But I do have the right to have a child with whoever (of consenting age) allows me past the goalie. That is not a privilege - it's not something anyone can (or should be able to) take away from me.

Here's precisely where we disagree. I don't agree with your stance something becomes a privilege simply because it requires consent or outside forces. Two individuals have the right to come together to procreate, you've basically said as much. Simply because they require each other to fulfill their individual rights doesn't convert their individual rights into a group privilege.

Either way, the woman in the video is a whackadoodle.

I agree being able to pursue marriage and having a family is a right. But getting married and having a family is still a privilege that has it's own rights that apply to both in the marriage.
A right can lead to a privilege and that privilege can afford a person new rights or rights that they could not exercise without that privilege. Having a child is one of those areas.
Like in the example I've been using.
Everybody has the right to pursue living with another person and having a child with that person. The other person also has those rights. Both it is still a privilege for each of those persons to have the other consent to living with them. They have the right to live together, it's the consent of the other person that makes it a privilege. Same with having a child. Everyone has the right to pursue having a child, but you still need (in theory) two consenting adults to have that child. It is in having one person that consents to the other that makes it a privilege. Same with raising the child. You have the right to raise your child as you see fit, but because your actions impact another human being, it is a privilege to do so.
I look at rights and privileges and entitlements in a more basic or simple form then most I think.
To me an individual right is something you are born with, can practice without the assistance of another and without harm to another.
A privilege involves an agreement between two or more parties.
An entitlement is requiring one person (or group) to give something to someone else with the threat of punishment if the first party doesn't do so willingly.

I didn't watch the video, I figure if I want to see stupid I can just go to Walmart myself and see it live

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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I agree being able to pursue marriage and having a family is a right. But getting married and having a family is still a privilege that has it's own rights that apply to both in the marriage.
A right can lead to a privilege and that privilege can afford a person new rights or rights that they could not exercise without that privilege. Having a child is one of those areas.
Like in the example I've been using.
Everybody has the right to pursue living with another person and having a child with that person. The other person also has those rights. Both it is still a privilege for each of those persons to have the other consent to living with them. They have the right to live together, it's the consent of the other person that makes it a privilege. Same with having a child. Everyone has the right to pursue having a child, but you still need (in theory) two consenting adults to have that child. It is in having one person that consents to the other that makes it a privilege. Same with raising the child. You have the right to raise your child as you see fit, but because your actions impact another human being, it is a privilege to do so.
I look at rights and privileges and entitlements in a more basic or simple form then most I think.
To me an individual right is something you are born with, can practice without the assistance of another and without harm to another.
A privilege involves an agreement between two or more parties.
An entitlement is requiring one person (or group) to give something to someone else with the threat of punishment if the first party doesn't do so willingly.
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I didn't watch the video, I figure if I want to see stupid I can just go to Walmart myself and see it live

Thom, I think we're on pretty much the same page here. You got me thinking, which is something Claude's never been able to do...

While poking around the Big G to get a better grasp on your view, I stumbled across this guy:

Good to be King | Constitution Preservation

He damn near agrees with everything you've said, but seems to imply parenthood as a right in a section on responsibility in his free chapter.

I ordered the book. Looks interesting. I suspect you are probably familiar with the author.

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Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Thom, I think we're on pretty much the same page here. You got me thinking, which is something Claude's never been able to do...

The fact that my name was mentioned at all, makes me feel all squishy inside.
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- positivenegative 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
  
  The fact that my name was mentioned at all, makes me feel all squishy inside.
  
  Really. Is there something we should be told?
  
  Urban Dictionary: Squishy
  
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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Thom, I think we're on pretty much the same page here. You got me thinking, which is something Claude's never been able to do...

While poking around the Big G to get a better grasp on your view, I stumbled across this guy:

Good to be King | Constitution Preservation

He damn near agrees with everything you've said, but seems to imply parenthood as a right in a section on responsibility in his free chapter.

I ordered the book. Looks interesting. I suspect you are probably familiar with the author.

I think we are too Dan. The only reason I get so picky on what these things are is because of the way people will sometimes go about exercising their rights or privileges. The woman in the video may be an example. What I mean is you will see people treat their kids like crap and say they have the "right" to raise their kid the way they see fit. Because it's their right they figure they can do it anyway they want and there's nothing anyone can say about it.
But when you understand that raising a child is a privilege, then it puts that responsibility into perspective.

I have heard of the old guy who wrote the forward to that book, but not the author.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Thom, I have to side with the United Nations definition over yours:

Right to Marriage and Family

Basic human right.

Right to a family

Marriage Equality | Amnesty International USA

(Technically, AI uses the same definition as the UN.)

The United Nations, The Human Rights Education Association, and Amnesty International better fire all of their legal counsel, because they don't agree with your interpretation either.

Here's where I think we're getting crossed here. It would be a privilege for me to have a child with Jessica Biel. It's my right to have children in general. I don't have the right to have a child with whoever I well please. It's takes consent. But I do have the right to have a child with whoever (of consenting age) allows me past the goalie. That is not a privilege - it's not something anyone can (or should be able to) take away from me.

Here's precisely where we disagree. I don't agree with your stance something becomes a privilege simply because it requires consent or outside forces. Two individuals have the right to come together to procreate, you've basically said as much. Simply because they require each other to fulfill their individual rights doesn't convert their individual rights into a group privilege.

Either way, the woman in the video is a whackadoodle.

OK, the ONLY person I heard of that openly declared it a RIGHT to such a degree was elliot rodger! Remember him? He was the guy that sentenced a number of people to death for not allowing him to have sex with someone he CHOSE!

Article 23 statement 3 3. No marriage shall be entered into without the free and full consent of the intending spouses. DOES say that eilliot could be denied, but many cultures will simply scratch this part out.

BTW there IS one "outside force" that SHOULD have a say! THE CHILD!!!!! Granted, they shouldn't have TOO much of a say, but if they are not being treated right, they should have options.

Time hasn't been good to Jessica.

Steve

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

I mostly agree with Kay, but what troubles me is the mother saying, "I didn't mean to do that one." What does that mean? Did she mean to do other injuries?

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I mostly agree with Kay, but what troubles me is the mother saying, "I didn't mean to do that one." What does that mean? Did she mean to do other injuries?

Dennis, I didn't catch that at all.

Going thru the video again I am pretty sure she did say that. Twice actually.
Amazing observation.

And that is freaking scary

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Rick Rodd

12 years ago

It's the sport store's fault actually, letting lil' kids stand on top of carts. Sue the shop! Where's da manager?!

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Rick Rodd

12 years ago

Well, if that parent is abusive of her body (look how big she is), how would you expect her to take care of her daughter?

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HeySal

12 years ago

I don't see "abusive". I do see careless. I see one more person who completely loses reality when the cell phone rings. Full grown adults walk in front of moving cars when there's a cell phone in their hand.

This is not a "baby" - it's a half grown kid - probably around 10. I also noticed that when she fell the first thing she did was run to mommy and bury her face in mommy. That's something an abused kid doesn't do. They will sit and cry or try not to cry without approaching the parent. It's one thing we used to take note of at the crisis center. Abused kids keep distance from abusive parents.

The woman was boisterous, but she had people screaming at her. I don't get the feel she would have screamed at anyone if they would have talked to her in reasonable tones themselves. Someone screams at me and my first reaction is "go f*** yourself".

Rick - she's not that big. This is a woman who would be stocky at her thinnest.

Dennis - "that one" is a frequently used expression. I use it myself. It doesn't mean much other than "what just happened" or "what I just said". Um...........trust me on that one

I'm sorry. I don't see abusive here. I see a stupid accident that might not have happened if there were no cell phones. I see a woman getting defensive when she was confronted. I see a kid that's careless, too - but not afraid of mommy in the least.

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I don't see "abusive". I do see careless. I see one more person who completely loses reality when the cell phone rings. Full grown adults walk in front of moving cars when there's a cell phone in their hand.

Okay...I guess it is just me. I don't know ,to not see a parent run to the aid of their fallen child is just abnormal.

It is. Sorry.

( And yes I will judge you for it

)

There have been falls not nearly like that , that have caused serious injuries like broken bones.( If she lands straight on her head at just the right angle. BOOM broken neck.)

Oh yeah wait...she already has a broken or sprained bone.

Oh ok Mom is just used to it.

Yeah thats it

P.S. There are plenty of kids I have seen who have been absolutely abused and afflicted with pain. But because of the trauma have been brainwashed or are in denial and as a result have a warped sense of reality ( and do come running into their parents arms)

You do not have to work in a Crisis Center to know that!

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thunderbird

12 years ago

It looked like an accident to me in a moment of distraction, not abuse.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Frankly,as a kid, I was treated this way all around. Even with my parents, teachers, peers, etc..., so I kind of lost most sympathy in such cases. I think ANYONE that does such things should lose ALL reasonable ability to inflict such things. This would affect parents, kids,"incompetent" people, various infected individuals, politicians, etc.... Of course, they will NEVER pass such laws and have actually passed laws ENCOURAGING and ENABLING such abuse! That is little surprise, since those most likely to be affected by such laws are often those put in positions to MAKE such laws!

Stores should maybe not put such displays so high, use of space over about 7' encourages this to some degree by SOMEONE. The girl should not have climbed on an object likely to be moved or without a stable support(Most ladders are not likely to move and those used in libraries and the like, that CAN move, often have an upper support to keep them stable). The mother should have asked her to get down, and not TOUCHED the cart until she did.

This is a potentially DANGEROUS event. It could take perhaps a DAY for a child to die from such a fall, if they have a minor internal injury. Happily, it is unlikely without hitting the head or breaking a bone, but it DOES happen!

As for the parent v. child bit? Parents have, historically, been given the ability to treat their kids as PETS! At least PETS have had advocates, and are freely sold or abandoned if a responsibility can't be met. But Children should be treated as PEOPLE! GRANTED, they are born effectively incompetent, so the parent should undertake the task of custodian, mentor, teacher, etc.... This DOES mean a REASONABLE punishment. And if a parent can't provide for the child, there should be a DISINCENTIVE to have more kids, and the child should be moved elsewhere.

Steve

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seasoned

12 years ago

I'm sorry, we must be watching different videos about different things. I am watching the one at the top of this thread. First of all, there is a "mother" looking at a shirt. That is the ******EXACT****** same shirt a little girl is looking at. They stop at approximately the EXACT same time! *****WHY*****? Logically, it is like the mother asked the daughter(assuming that is the relationship). THEN, supposedly the woman answers the phone and looks away. Barely without missing a beat she pulls the cart approximately 3 feet. There was NO idea of are you ok, etc...

And people with casts are ESPECIALLY fragile. That is why they have casts! The idea is to hold things together to keep them from breaking MORE and/or hold them stable while they heal. Falls are NOT good in such a case. As for asking the kid, etc...? She is more likely to lie, etc... After all, the other people are strangers, and she doesn't want to end up worse off.

There are a lot of reasons that video might be taken. Who knows. It MIGHT be staged, or they saw a mistake waiting to happen, or perhaps THEY were interested in the shirts also.

Steve

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

ok, etc...

And people with casts are ESPECIALLY fragile. That is why they have casts! The idea is to hold things together to keep them from breaking MORE and/or hold them stable while they heal. Falls are NOT good in such a case. As for asking the kid, etc...? She is more likely to lie, etc... After all, the other people are strangers, and she doesn't want to end up worse off.

There are a lot of reasons that video might be taken. Who knows. It MIGHT be staged, or they saw a mistake waiting to happen, or perhaps THEY were interested in the shirts also.

Steve

Steve brings up a good point.

Who in their right mind would react like this to begin with....let alone dealing with a child with broken arm in a cast.

Come on guys. Put your thinking caps on and run this scenario as if you were a Mom or Dad with a Child who has a broken or sprained arm

The scenario and the implications of it are just getting more and more bizarre as all of you continue to Post on this Thread. LOL

Thnx for doing that Steve

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

It's all a distraction to get the hula hoop.

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SusanHarrison

12 years ago

That woman yanked the trolley knowing full well her daughter was standing up in it and she pulled it with some force, the fact she did not end the phone call , reassure her daughter other than absent mindedly rubbing her head and was more intent on justifying her actions than checking the seriousness of her daughters injuries.. The fact she flips out so much in a public place and in front of her children to intimidate the woman and frighten everyone around her proves she is a bully with huge anger issues and clearly does not care about much more than herself I wouldn't put it past her to do harm to others just out of wickedness,

I feel wholeheartedly sorry for her children and hope they have some other loving figures in their lives they are sure going to need them with a mother like that.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by SusanHarrison

That woman yanked the trolley knowing full well her daughter was standing up in it and she pulled it with some force, the fact she did not end the phone call , reassure her daughter other than absent mindedly rubbing her head and was more intent on justifying her actions than checking the seriousness of her daughters injuries.. The fact she flips out so much in a public place and in front of her children to intimidate the woman and frighten everyone around her proves she is a bully with huge anger issues and clearly does not care about much more than herself I wouldn't put it past her to do harm to others just out of wickedness,

I feel wholeheartedly sorry for her children and hope they have some other loving figures in their lives they are sure going to need them with a mother like that.

We should have a super mega thanks for THAT one! Why so many don't acknowledge that is INCREDIBLE! As for whether the mother broke the girls arm? Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. But the garbage in this video shows she may have been PERSONALLY and INTENTIONALLY responsible for causing MORE damage! A cast is there to help protect the bones while they heal. Shoving them with a force that could exceed 4 times your body weight, assuming she fell with relatively low inertia, is NOT good! Even if it was a simple sprain, this could exacerbate her sprain and even potentially cause bone damage.

Steve

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Kay King

12 years ago

That woman yanked the trolley knowing full well her daughter was standing up in it and she pulled it with some force, the fact she did not end the phone call , reassure her daughter other than absent mindedly rubbing her head and was more intent on justifying her actions than checking the seriousness of her daughters injuries.. The fact she flips out so much in a public place and in front of her children to intimidate the woman and frighten everyone around her proves she is a bully with huge anger issues and clearly does not care about much more than herself I wouldn't put it past her to do harm to others just out of wickedness,

And you got all that from 100 seconds of YouTube.

We don't need courts - we don't need psychiatrists. We can just watch YouTube videos for one minute and vote on punishment.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

And you got all that from 100 seconds of YouTube.

We don't need courts - we don't need psychiatrists. We can just watch YouTube videos for one minute and vote on punishment.

I used to be scared crapless of the government. Now I'm more afraid of self-righteous people who see something they might question and decide to hang someone for it.

What's really disturbed to me is people keep pointing out the kid's broken arm. I'm not sure if people understand this or not but when a kid gets hurt these days, the medical institution and doctors really pay attention to it. Any sign of abuse and Child Services is at your door. You wouldn't believe what my sister went through when her son tripped and stuck his hand in the fireplace with a fire going. That was forty years ago. Now days it takes almost nothing (and sometimes that) to get a kid snatched. I hope you get your kids through a whole lifetime without one suspicious looking, or volital event, because this will be you in the video.

For those of you who think the woman was so wrong for being angry because someone was attacking her? If someone is screaming at you, what's your reaction? Seriously - you have some obnoxious bitch screaming at you in public, what is your reaction? Someone just screamed in public you're abusing your kid and you're just a mild happy camper right? Right. Sure.

It' pisses me off royally to look back at a few things that happened to me in my life and think that there were people who would have called one of my parents abusive. I'm starting to hope a few of you with kids that are so self righteous get to eat a little bit of that medicine someday.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I used to be scared crapless of the government. Now I'm more afraid of self-righteous people who see something they might question and decide to hang someone for it.

What's really disturbed to me is people keep pointing out the kid's broken arm. I'm not sure if people understand this or not but when a kid gets hurt these days, the medical institution and doctors really pay attention to it. Any sign of abuse and Child Services is at your door. You wouldn't believe what my sister went through when her son tripped and stuck his hand in the fireplace with a fire going. That was forty years ago. Now days it takes almost nothing (and sometimes that) to get a kid snatched. I hope you get your kids through a whole lifetime without one suspicious looking, or volital event, because this will be you in the video.

For those of you who think the woman was so wrong for being angry because someone was attacking her? If someone is screaming at you, what's your reaction? Seriously - you have some obnoxious bitch screaming at you in public, what is your reaction? Someone just screamed in public you're abusing your kid and you're just a mild happy camper right? Right. Sure.

It' pisses me off royally to look back at a few things that happened to me in my life and think that there were people who would have called one of my parents abusive. I'm starting to hope a few of you with kids that are so self righteous get to eat a little bit of that medicine someday.

Well, the real facts are that child abuse and neglect are under-reported and that only 20% of investigated cases result in the removal of children from the home.

I didn't see anything "reportable" in the video in question, but I wouldn't hesitate to report incidents where I thought a child was in danger. Would it help? Probably not. Numerous people reported Joel Steinberg, the man I posted about above, and the police and social services came up with "nothing to see here folks." Did they even bother to look at Lisa Steinberg's mother's face? If so, didn't they see anything unusual about it?

So, it wouldn't bother me at all to be called self righteous when a kids life might be at stake.

Children are suffering from a hidden epidemic of child abuse and neglect. Every year more than 3 million reports of child abuse are made in the United States involving more than 6 million children (a report can include multiple children). The United States has one of the worst records among industrialized nations - losing on average between four and seven children every day to child abuse and neglect.

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Kay King

12 years ago

only 20% of investigated cases result in the removal of children from the home.

Some do fall through the cracks - we see them on the news. There are many false reports and many not reported that should be.

When children are removed from the home, it's unlikely they end up in a warm fuzzy place. More likely - they will be moved from one foster home to another with courts unwilling to revoke parental rights and allow the children to be adopted.

Children are not chattel but they belong with the family they are born into unless there is convincing evidence of abuse.

I agree with Sal's assessment of "people" - there is an uprising (due to social media, in part?) of people who think they have a right to interfere in and judge the lives of others. There's a wide gap between need and nosey.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

When children are removed from the home, it's unlikely they end up in a warm fuzzy place. More likely - they will be moved from one foster home to another with courts unwilling to revoke parental rights and allow the children to be adopted.

Children are not chattel but they belong with the family they are born into unless there is convincing evidence of abuse.

Of course they belong with their family unless there is clear evidence of abuse or neglect, but with more than 4 dieing every day due to abuse or neglect, I think it's safe to say that many are remaining in homes that are dangerously abusive.

These women at that Walmart were busy bodies. There was no reportable abuse there, and if there was, it would have been more effective to just quietly tape it and go to the police and social services with it.

Revoking parental rights would do little good to alleviate the problems with foster care. Many of those children are older and by then, so damaged that many families aren't up to caring for them, even if their intentions are good ... and many parents looking for children to adopt, aren't looking for older, emotionally and physically damaged children to adopt. So those children fall through cracks throughout the "system."

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Cali16

12 years ago

Originally Posted by SusanHarrison

That woman yanked the trolley knowing full well her daughter was standing up in it

The fact she flips out so much in a public place and in front of her children to intimidate the woman and frighten everyone around her proves she is a bully with huge anger issues and clearly does not care about much more than herself I wouldn't put it past her to do harm to others just out of wickedness,

With all due respect, Susan, those are ridiculous assumptions. First, exactly how do you know that the mother knew full well that her daughter was still standing up? You don't. NO one does. The mother appeared distracted (happens to every parent at times) and, as she said, thought the girl had sat down. Was she lying? Maybe. But NONE of us knows that for sure.

While her screaming in a public place was, perhaps, a bit over the top, she didn't initially react badly to the accusations made by these women until they just kept at her. Granted, none of us knows what happened prior to the start of the video. One of the women stated that the mother had been "yelling at this child the entire time" (which may be why they started videotaping her). But perhaps they were self-righteously overreacting themselves.

A stressed out parent can raise his or her voice out of frustration - that doesn't automatically mean he or she is abusive or a bully. This woman might be, but again, this video doesn't remotely prove that. It merely suggests the possibility (that she can be a bully) - just as much as it suggests that this woman was having a really bad day and lost it when two complete strangers started hurling ugly accusations her way. I'm sure a lot of parents would get very defensive in a similar situation.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

With all due respect, Susan, those are ridiculous assumptions.

What assumption? HECK, I don't even assume the garage door will go down,or up, after I push the button on the remote! That is a GOOD thing, ALSO, because sometimes it DOESN'T! If my phone rings in my car, I don't take my eyes off the road and decide to do something that has a VERY high likelihood to be dangerous! The woman here, upon hearing the phone, looked away, and abruptly pulled the cart several feet! That is FACT! SORRY, it is OBVIOUS on that video. Should we let all the people out of jail that were convicted on videos?

I recently saw a forensic files. They had NO evidence that a group committed a burglary! ALL they had were a pattern, 2 people that had vehicles that witnesses said had tags of ones that came from the bank, and a couple people that lived together. The video showed ONE guy that was heavy and in a hybrid stance that coworkers said a coworker used.

What got the credit for the capture was NOT the coincidental stance, weight, or third party tag IDs, or the fact that anofficer checked in sick for all the robberies. THAT went to a SHIRT that was in the video. The seams were randomly pieced together, and there was one tear that matched a light area in the video. Since the seams were randomly pieced, they either spent a fortune making cheap ugly shirts OR, more likely, made them random because they didn't want to bother matching seams. The FBI went with the latter theory, meaning that this was absolutely unique and the shirt was the same one worn on the robbery. With all the dozens of patterns that had to match so precisely, it was simply unreasonable to believe that this was not the same shirt.

So we see this woman look away and talk on the phone as she moved the cart. If she assumed the girl INSTANTLY sat down safely, she is just DUMB! She obviously never bothered to look.

Steve

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candoit2

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

So we see this woman look away and talk on the phone as she moved the cart. If she assumed the girl INSTANTLY sat down safely, she is just DUMB! She obviously never bothered to look.

Steve

If she was absent minded when she did it, her initial reaction when attacked about it wouldn't be to admit she had no idea if her child was standing or not, she was mentally elsewhere. No one would admit that, especially to a stranger yelling at them. Of course she would say she thought she was sitting, it's a reaction. Basic reaction under stress.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Midnight Oil,

Completely off topic... Is your nom de forum an homage to the Aussie rockers of the same name?

Paul

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Midnight Oil 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Midnight Oil,

Completely off topic... Is your nom de forum an homage to the Aussie rockers of the same name?

Really liked the band back in the day, and they still occupy space on my hard drive, but no. I don't even remember if they crossed my mind when I filled that info in.

It's really much more dull than that. More of a personal reference of how much time I spent/spend working late at night and into the wee hours of the morning. Especially over the many years that I worked a regular job for a crazy number of hours per week and then spent long nights working on my own business. It's been a few years since I went full time for myself, but working overnight, burning the midnight oil, is still a big part of what I do and something I enjoy.

Told ya. Dull.

And now I want to play some old Midnight Oil tunes. Any requests?
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- Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  MO,
  
  Ah. "Burning the..." That works.
  
  As for requests... Anything from "Blue Sky Mining" would be nice. I think the locals would appreciate the experience. We have a great music crowd here.
  
  Paul
  
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  Midnight Oil 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  As for requests... Anything from "Blue Sky Mining" would be nice. I think the locals would appreciate the experience. We have a great music crowd here.
  
  You got it . . .
  
  Midnight Oil - Forgotten Years
  
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  Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  MO,
  
  Midnight Oil - Forgotten Years
  
  A truly appropriate choice for this thread.
  
  Well done, sir.
  
  Paul
  
  PS: That song has a special place in my collection, along with "Russians" by Sting, "Shades of Grey" by Billy Joel, and "The Marine's Hymn," by Lloyd Green.
  
  PPS: Here's the song...
  
  Marine's Hymn Lloyd Green - YouTube
  
  For those who aren't familiar with him, Lloyd Green is possibly the best steel guitarist who ever lived.
  
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  Midnight Oil 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  and "The Marine's Hymn," by Lloyd Green
  
  I've never heard that before. Very nice. Thanks.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Paul Myers 12 years ago
  
  MO,
  
  I've never heard that before. Very nice. Thanks.
  
  Check out "Ballad of the Green Beret" on YouTube. It's a better showcase of his talent.
  
  That's one of the coolest things about YouTube on the Roku. I can find almost any of my old vinyl favorites and play them through the system. I have Green's "Day for Decision" album somewhere, but it's just easier to stream it than to dig the thing out and convert it.
  
  If you like the really quality session musicians, you might also enjoy Vasser Clements. A better fiddle player than Doug Kershaw or Charlie Daniels.
  
  Paul
  
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  Midnight Oil 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  MO
  
  That's starting to grow on me.
  
  Really enjoying skimming Green and Clements' work. Nice cover here:
  
  Lloyd Green - There Goes My Everything
  
  Clements is great on the fiddle, and I really appreciate musicians who can add something special to a larger body of work just by adding a slightly off, barely perceptible piece somewhere in the background. I don't know a better way to describe it, but it's those little moments and details that get me, like the delicate touch Clements displays between the 1:05 and 1:25 marks here:
  
  Vasser Clements - Lonesome Fiddle Blues
  
  Thanks again. Will check more out later today.
  
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candoit2

12 years ago

How do you know what was going on there in her mind? What was going on in her life at that moment, that caused her to quickly answer the phone and (what looks to me) absentmindedly pull the cart.

All I saw in that video was an accident, and could not tell if it was anything more. I didn't even see her have time to react to what she had done, that woman was attacking her and accusing her of doing it on purpose so quickly.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Ian, I had one of those old 32 tube TV's. Those puppies are HEAVY, and awkward. It was all I could do to lift it into place on the dolly when I decided to get rid of it.

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Ian, I had one of those old 32 tube TV's. Those puppies are HEAVY, and awkward. It was all I could do to lift it into place on the dolly when I decided to get rid of it.

Yeah, super heavy, best to put it out for heavy pickup or take it down to the charity place if it works.

Had a six speaker plus (one was a wireless speaker put behind us on the other side of the room) tuner amp setup under and around my tv for years. After ten years the amp died so picked up this amplified speaker bar and wireless sub woofer in the sales.

You would not believe the amount of wires, speaker leads and connectors I have got rid of, a whole box full that connected up everything sound wise via the amp. Now just a few leads being HDMI and digital optical audio.

Unbeliveable simplification.

I have a really useful box with just about every lead you could think of audio and computer wise. I have old low capacity hard dives, a usb floppy disk drive, you name it.

Just about everything in it I can throw away now.

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Floyd Fisher

12 years ago

I think this video is a tad mislabeled.

While I do see an unforuntate accident, I don't see actual abuse, or a mother screaming at her child.

What I do see is mind numbing stupidity (you do not let a child even sit in the basket section of a shopping cart ever). Then I see two adults having a pissing match, screaming at each other.

Where's the beef?

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HeySal

12 years ago

I'm not sure what general abuse stats are - just for sexual abuse because that's what I worked in. Despite what people think, the real father is more likely to abuse the kid than the step dad.
There's an epidemic as well right now of gov abuse of families. That agency has the power to take any child they want. There's a lot of kids being taken that should not be touched. Look at how fast they are to put a parent in jail simply for spanking a kid - not a beating, just a little spanking. That's considered abuse, so when you go through stats, remember to check out what they lump into a category.

I don't think many people would be upset at a parent for slapping a kid's mouth who is swearing at their parent. Most of us can't imagine telling a parent to "f*ck off" and not getting slapped for it. Now it's categorized as "abuse", and punishable by jail time.

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Raydal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I don't think many people would be upset at a parent for slapping a kid's mouth who is swearing at their parent. Most of us can't imagine telling a parent to "f*ck off" and not getting slapped for it. Now it's categorized as "abuse", and punishable by jail time.

Well, when the parent doesn't discipline the child, he makes a great target
for a cop later on. What you can't do the cops will do for you. Sad.

-Ray Edwards

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Karen Blundell

12 years ago

I saw a distracted woman - not an abusive one - I saw a woman who reacted to the constant screaming of a woman who wouldn't shut up and let her explain herself. Sal mentioned negligent - the negligence was a result of being distracted mostly, in my opinion.

To me, the child didn't appear to fear her mother - let's just leave it like that -

I wish people would mind their own damn business. There is no privacy anymore - think I will move to the wilderness and hope to hell no one follows me there -

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

I wish people would mind their own damn business. There is no privacy anymore - think I will move to the wilderness and hope to hell no one follows me there

If adults don't report child abuse when they see it, just who do you think is? The abusers? Do people who abuse children have the right to abuse them in private?

These people have a legal obligation to report child abuse if they suspect it: Child care providers; Pediatricians and other health care workers; Law enforcement officers; Mental health professionals; Clergy; School personnel; Social workers.

Do you know that 95% of child sexual abuse goes unreported? If adults who care about what happens to children don't report suspected child abuse, who will? Sorry, but if there's a choice to be made of someone's right to privacy or a child's life, I know which I'll pick.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/us...apterthree.cfm

When to Report

Although all States require the reporting of suspected abuse and neglect, there is no requirement that the reporter have proof that the abuse or neglect has occurred. Typically, a report must be made when the reporter suspects or has reasons to suspect that a child has been abused or neglected.36 Waiting for absolute proof may result in significant risk to the child. It is not the caregiver's job to validate the abuse; this is the job of CPS caseworkers or law enforcement officers who have been trained to undertake this type of investigation.

It's also illegal to make false reports of child abuse.

False Reports

There also are penalties for making knowingly false reports of child abuse or neglect. Approximately 30 States have statutes specifying penalties for false reports. The penalties are similar to those for the failure to report. The majority of States classify false reporting as a misdemeanor, while a few States classify it as a felony. False reports should not be confused with cases that are found to be unsubstantiated by CPS. Those cases are ruled out due to insufficient evidence that was provided in good faith, as opposed to false reports where incorrect information is provided knowingly.

Originally Posted by bizgrower

The Mom in the video is at least taking the time and energy to let her kids do sports.

We don't know if the phone call was a normal call, or the one about her Mom's chemo,
or the one about her sister having her baby...

We don't know anything from that video except that the women was surrounded by a bunch of loud mouthed drama queens. We don't know that the kid broke or sprained her arm in sports or it was done some other way. There isn't even an reason for anyone to "suspect" child abuse from that video, although she might well be an abusive parent or she might not be. Simply not enough data.

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Karen Blundell

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If adults don't report child abuse when they see it, just who do you think is? The abusers? Do people who abuse children have the right to abuse them in private?

No, they don't. Suzanne, I was a victim of child abuse. Back then - people kept their mouths shut. But I had a good friend who had connections with social services and I was rescued at the age of 16 because I finally broke down and told her everything.

Now we have a complete 180 - zero privacy and lies and innuendo spread through social media - this woman was being video-taped probably without her knowledge - we have no proof of whether or not she did anything wrong. We have people like the OP reading things into things that have no basis on fact.

That is why I made the comment I did about moving to the wilderness - because heaven forbid I should do something in public that someone who is simply nosy decides to video-tape and then I'm screwed - that is one of the reasons I don't like cell-phones much - they are being used for all kinds of nefarious reasons.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

No, they don't. Suzanne, I was a victim of child abuse. Back then - people kept their mouths shut. But I had a good friend who had connections with social services and I was rescued at the age of 16 because I finally broke down and told her everything.

Now we have a complete 180 - zero privacy and lies and innuendo spread through social media - this woman was being video-taped probably without her knowledge - we have no proof of whether or not she did anything wrong. We have people like the OP reading things into things that have no basis on fact.

That is why I made the comment I did about moving to the wilderness - because heaven forbid I should do something in public that someone who is simply nosy decides to video-tape and then I'm screwed - that is one of the reasons I don't like cell-phones much - they are being used for all kinds of nefarious reasons.

Sorry to hear about the abuse. Glad you finally told someone.

for the rest ... there's no privacy in public places and I wasn't commenting on this stupid video ... and no one really cares about that woman and that video and the loudmouths who taped her. I think they did themselves more harm than they did her. They were very annoying. I commented when someone said that smacking a kid in the mouth because they said something bad to you was a reasonable way to handle child discipline. That's what set me off. I think the chances of that happening to most of us are fairly slim. I go into town often and no one video tapes me ... lol. Maybe I'm just not photogenic enough.

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Karen Blundell

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I commented when someone said that smacking a kid in the mouth because they said something bad to you was a reasonable way to handle child discipline. That's what set me off. I think the chances of that happening to most of us are fairly slim. I go into town often and no one video tapes me ... lol. Maybe I'm just not photogenic enough.

I agree with you - physical violence is never the answer - the kid would lose privileges in a hurry, though, if he/she mouthed off to me.

But I also think in a way we have become too indulgent of children - for example you have a kid screaming at the top of it's lungs in public - you can't reason with them - they scream louder - even a smack on the bum is dangerous - because as we know there are people who are quick to jump on the parental abuse bandwagon - so what should a parent do? Remove the kid - now you are forced to abandon your errands because of your screaming child - this happens more often then not - sometimes the rest of the world has to endure the screams because the parents choose to ignore the kid, in the hopes the kid will eventually grow tired and stop screaming. How nice for the rest of us, eh?

How do you discipline an out of control kid? - you can't reason with them, you can't hit them, so parents are stuck - dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't -

As a parent myself, I really think parents no longer have any rights. Your child is a ward of the state from the moment he or she is born.

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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I'm not sure what general abuse stats are - just for sexual abuse because that's what I worked in. Despite what people think, the real father is more likely to abuse the kid than the step dad. There's an epidemic as well right now of gov abuse of families. That agency has the power to take any child they want. There's a lot of kids being taken that should not be touched.

The statistics of child abuse are 6M children per year reported, with 3.x million cases reported (some with multiple children. It really makes no difference whether it's sexual abuse, neglect, physical, verbal or emotional abuse. Abuse is abuse. It's also fairly irrelevant whether it's a parent or other.

Out of those reports, only 20% end up with the child being removed from the home, with 4-5 children per day dieing from child abuse or neglect, so clearly, government conspiracies set aside, not enough children are taken away.

Originally Posted by HeySal

Look at how fast they are to put a parent in jail simply for spanking a kid - not a beating, just a little spanking. That's considered abuse, so when you go through stats, remember to check out what they lump into a category.

Never once heard of any parent going to jail for a little spanking and I've known plenty of parents who spank. I'd like to see the official report on jailed parents for spanking and not just some conspiracy website stating such.

Originally Posted by HeySal

I don't think many people would be upset at a parent for slapping a kid's mouth who is swearing at their parent. Most of us can't imagine telling a parent to "f*ck off" and not getting slapped for it. Now it's categorized as "abuse", and punishable by jail time.

Call me self righteous, but smacking a kid of any age in the mouth is abuse and I would report it so fast the parent wouldn't know what hit him. I think it's appalling that anyone would think that is an ok way to deal with discipline issues. It's called assault and should be treated as such. I don't care what comes out of the kid's mouth, assaulting them is not sane or legal.

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discrat

12 years ago

v

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Call me self righteous, but smacking a kid of any age is abuse and I would report it so fast the parent wouldn't know what hit him. I think it's appalling that anyone would think that is an ok way to deal with discipline issues. It's called assault and should be treated as such. I don't care what comes out of the kid's mouth, assaulting them is not sane or legal.

I side with Suzanne on this. It is child abuse.
I never have slapped my kids in the face.

One time however, one of my daughters smeared her feces all up and down the wall in our house. It was the second time she did it. Just an unbelievable act

I was cleaning up and she started motioning again as if she was going to do it again.

In just a quick reaction I smacked her on the top of the head to Stop. Not hard but enough where I swore I would NEVER do anything but spank them in the rear. And lightly at that

To me anything involving the face or head with physical violence...... well it is child abuse. And Iam not saying that a person should automatically be locked up but it is a form of abuse.

You do that out in public to an adult and you would get charged assault

it is ironic because aren't our kids more important to protect than a grown adult ?

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Kay King 12 years ago

smacking....spanking....hitting....abuse - are not the same thing. A swat on the butt is not abuse....leaving marks is.

There's a danger in always labeling things in the extreme and it truly can get a bit self righteous. One problem today is that CPS is too often used to harass or punish - with strangers and family reporting abuse based on opinions rather than knowledge/evidence.

That's important because there are limited hours int the day for every case worker in CPS. False reports take time and attention away from serious cases of abuse.
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- discrat 12 years ago
  
  i can just say from my own perspective. And this is that physical actions ( or violence) on the neck of a child and above is off limits. Period !
  
  It is child abuse or at least it should be looked at as child abuse.
  
  There should be No wiggle room in this area imo
  
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bizgrower

12 years ago

After the hospital visit, my nephew looked very similar to the kid in the video after he broke his arm in a morning soccer game. And, he might have looked like a victim of abuse when he was four and tumbled forehead first into the brick built in bench in front of the family room fireplace while rough housing.

The Mom in the video is at least taking the time and energy to let her kids do sports.

We don't know if the phone call was a normal call, or the one about her Mom's chemo,
or the one about her sister having her baby...

Anyway, I see an accident. Kid should not have been standing in cart, but Mom did not yank the cart.

I too wonder why it was filmed and posted at all. Did the "videographers" and other the other women have some kid of personal agenda against this woman?

When I was twelve, a friend's piano teacher/family friend was accused of sexually assaulting the children she gave piano lessons to. She was doing this through their church and the accusers were the parents of some of the kids. My friend and his family swore there was no truth to the accusations - just a horrible case of group think and not liking the woman for some other reasons. I was twelve and did not go to that church and met the woman once, so I don't know for sure what happened. My friends parents were college educated, decent, reasonable people.

-------------------------

Regardless of Jessica Biel or my favorite - Taylor Swift, I think it's a right for a man to have a child, but an honor
and a privilege for his woman to let him. (More women need to remember that they control the quality and
survival of the species.) I remember getting furious with my Dad for wanting to give Mom a small lump sum
for alimony instead of continuing the monthly payment. "She risked her life five times to give you four children."
(There was one miscarriage.)

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

I wonder how this thread would have gone if the video had a neutral title and this thread would have been titled "How Mobile Phone Distractions Lead to Accidents and Bickering" instead of taking the abusive parent angle.

This is an educational thread for those who study it.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I wonder how this thread would have gone if the video had a neutral title and this thread would have been titled "How Mobile Phone Distractions Lead to Accidents and Bickering" instead of taking the abusive parent angle.

This is an educational thread for those who study it.

Good question. It's educational to me, but the video is incidental. The replies are what I think are revealing.

And who is Thanking who....that shows a lot too. For example,I know that the people that Thank my posts, are going to live happy lives, and then go to heaven.

Something to think about.

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bizgrower

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Good question. It's educational to me, but the video is incidental. The replies are what I think are revealing.

And who is Thanking who....that show a lot too. For example,I know that the people that Thank my posts, are going to live happy lives, and then go to heaven.

Something to think about.

Probably going to be the most thanked post ever. Or, at least a tie with Alexa's most thanked post ever.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Good question. It's educational to me, but the video is incidental. The replies are what I think are revealing.

And who is Thanking who....that show a lot too. For example,I know that the people that Thank my posts, are going to live happy lives, and then go to heaven.

Something to think about.

I'm just hedging my bets.

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Project HERE.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Good question. It's educational to me, but the video is incidental. The replies are what I think are revealing.

And who is Thanking who....that show a lot too. For example,I know that the people that Thank my posts, are going to live happy lives, and then go to heaven.

Something to think about.

Wow, that's almost like paying people to thank your post. What next from Claude, a WSO selling fake thanks?

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sbucciarel Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Wow, that's almost like paying people to thank your post. What next from Claude, a WSO selling fake thanks?

lanfear63 already beat him to that
http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9481907
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- Karen Blundell 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by sbucciarel
  
  lanfear63 already beat him to that
  http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9481907
  
  that's easy!
  the parents and the instructor - both at fault - who in their right minds allows a nine-year-old child to handle a UZI?
  
  Thanks
  
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thunderbird 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Wow, that's almost like paying people to thank your post. What next from Claude, a WSO selling fake thanks?

Sounds like a good Fiverr gig.
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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Wow, that's almost like paying people to thank your post. What next from Claude, a WSO selling fake thanks?

Already out there Dennis

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9481907

Added
Opp's, did not see sbucciarel had pointed that out aleady! Am working on automated software for the WSO.
that will not only get you thanks from the big names on the forum (like Dennis Gaskill) but allow you to thank yourself. The OTO will be the deluxe version which will include thanks from famous names both dead and alive. Imagine a post thanked by Jimmy Hendrix, Sir Issac Newton, Robin Williams, President Obama, Vladimir Putin and Claude Whitacre. All this will be possible. Just $39.99 a month!

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Cali16

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

The OTO will be the deluxe version which will include thanks from famous names both dead and alive. Imagine a post thanked by Jimmy Hendrix, Sir Issac Newton, Robin Williams, President Obama, Vladimir Putin and Claude Whitacre. All this will be possible. Just $39.99 a month!

Lanfear, I'd like my posts to be thanked by Bill Gates (for my financial acumen and entrepreneurial spirit), Einstein (for my amazing intellect), and Brad Pitt (just to brag

). Can you add those to your OTO, pretty please?

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

Lanfear, I'd like my posts to be thanked by Bill Gates (for my financial acumen and entrepreneurial spirit), Einstein (for my amazing intellect), and Brad Pitt (just to brag

). Can you add those to your OTO, pretty please?

There is a huge database of names included which will be updated every month but of course you have the ability to add your own. Just think of the implications, say your father despised you and had no respect or appreciation of your life achievements. Just pop his name in there. Peer pressure gone.

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whateverpedia

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

The OTO will be the deluxe version which will include thanks from famous names both dead and alive. Imagine a post thanked by Jimmy Hendrix, Sir Issac Newton, Robin Williams, President Obama, Vladimir Putin and Claude Whitacre. All this will be possible. Just $39.99 a month!

I don't know about the rest, but I can imagine there being a huge market for thanks from Claude Whitacre.

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Claude Whitacre 12 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

I don't know about the rest, but I can imagine there being a huge market for thanks from Claude Whitacre.

True, true....my influence is worth millions. As a very important person...perhaps the most important in the history of the world....I would be willing to sell my thanks to the higherst bidder...

And if that doesn't work, the first bidder.
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Dan Riffle 12 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

I don't know about the rest, but I can't imagine there being a huge market for thanks from Claude Whitacre.

Fixed that for you, Whatever.
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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Good question. It's educational to me, but the video is incidental. The replies are what I think are revealing.

And who is Thanking who....that show a lot too. For example,I know that the people that Thank my posts, are going to live happy lives, and then go to heaven.

Something to think about.

I can attest to that. Ive noticed a remarkable turnaround in my life since I started thanking your posts. Money just seems to fall out of the sky, I don't need to work and my chronic wind problem has all but gone and whats left is silent and odorless.

The threat and fear of purgatory in the afterlife seems to have been lifted from my shoulders too.

Is the effect of the thanks amplified if you face south when clicking the button, a friend wants to know?

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I can attest to that. Ive noticed a remarkable turnaround in my life since I started thanking your posts. Money just seems to fall out of the sky, I don't need to work and my chronic wind problem has all but gone and whats left is silent and odorless.

The threat and fear of purgatory in the afterlife seems to have been lifted from my shoulders too.

Is the effect of the thanks amplified if you face south when clicking the button, a friend wants to know?

I've heard similar testimonials over the past several months. Blindness cured, wealth restored, personality improved..... The "facing south when clicking the button" is a silly myth perpetuated by my mortal enemies. It doesn't matter which way you face..as long as you're naked. I don't make up the rules, that's just the way it works.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

lanfear63 already beat him to that
http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9481907

I'm sure Claude doesn't mine selling rehashed thanks.

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Imagine a post thanked by Jimmy Hendrix...

Who is Jimmy Hendrix?

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Ive noticed a remarkable turnaround in my life since I started thanking your posts. Money just seems to fall out of the sky...

To show you how polarity works, every time I thank one of his posts money flies out of my wallet and disappears into the firmament. I'd like a refund, please.

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Dennis

Jimmy Hendrix is the even more famous brother of Jimi Hendrix. His banjo playing style inspired, influenced and changed the world of banjo music forever. His re-working of "When I'm Cleaning Windows" was an instant classic. Rumor had it that Norton paid him 5 million bucks to use the song when they launched Norton 360.

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Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Dennis

Jimmy Hendrix is the even more famous brother of Jimi Hendrix. His banjo playing style inspired, influenced and changed the world of banjo music forever. His re-working of "When I'm Cleaning Windows" was an instant classic. Rumor had it that Norton paid him 5 million bucks to use the song when they launched Norton 360.

That just shows you how stupid Google is, because when you type in his name the results are always about his less famous brother, Jimi. I think he was a guitar player or something. Probably left-handed, too. One last question...

What about my refund?

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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

That just shows you how stupid Google is, because when you type in his name the results are always about his less famous brother, Jimi. I think he was a guitar player or something. Probably left-handed, too. One last question...

What about my refund?

Dennis

I cant legislate for the Google results. Since their great Banjo player listings purge of 2010 their are scant references to Jimmy Hendrix.

My company cannot furnish you with a refund. It never made any claims that a Claude Whitacre thank or you thanking him , fake or otherwise brings you luck. Evidence for this is at best anecdotal or paid for by Claude. It is the prestige of the thank you's that may lead to a higher standing on the WF and thus more sales.

Please use the Claude Whitacre or Dennis Gaskill thank you removal tool in the software, you can chose to auto-remove all fake Claude/Dennis thank you's (leaving the real ones intact) or, all of them. You can also use the find and replace feature. By default it will Replace Claude's or Yours with Dan Riffles, caution, if their is any truth to this luck thing you may lose the side parts of your beard and mustache leaving a goatie.

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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lanfear63

Dennis

I cant legislate for the Google results. Since their great Banjo player listings purge of 2010 their are scant references to Jimmy Hendrix.

My company cannot furnish you with a refund. It never made any claims that a Claude Whitacre thank or you thanking him , fake or otherwise brings you luck. Evidence for this is at best anecdotal or paid for by Claude. It is the prestige of the thank you's that may lead to a higher standing on the WF and thus more sales.

Please use the Claude Whitacre or Dennis Gaskill thank you removal tool in the software, you can chose to auto-remove all fake Claude/Dennis thank you's (leaving the real ones intact) or, all of them. You can also use the find and replace feature. By default it will Replace Claude's or Yours with Dan Riffles, caution, if their is any truth to this luck thing you may lose the side parts of your beard and mustache leaving a goatie.

A Goatie is actually a goatee that is long enough, that you can braid it, and use it as a tie. The actual goatee is what men wear...well, most of them are men.

I patented the idea of a Goatie...Me ...Claude Whitacre. I called it. All included, no reverses.

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Kay King 12 years ago

I didn't thank Claude - I'm living life on the edge
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lanfear63

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

A Goatie is actually a goatee that is long enough, that you can braid it, and use it as a tie. The actual goatee is what men wear...well, most of them are men.

I patented the idea of a Goatie...Me ...Claude Whitacre. I called it. All included, no reverses.

Thanks for coming to my rescue for my second error on this thread. I broke enough sweat thinking of the Jimmy Hendrix cover story as it is. (I think he fell for it though)

So sailors must grow Boaties, just long enough to make a Bow Tie out of. It's brilliant.

Given me a whole new idea for new save face cover story software for post errors. If anyone brings the error to your attention and quotes it in a reply it scours the web and immediately comes up with a legitimate sounding rebuttal cover story and replies back making the person who pointed it out look ill informed.

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