Truly Shocking and Unacceptable

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Army Officer Turned Away by Security at Entrance of Daughter’s High School

A father - in military uniform - refused entrance to his daughter's school....

who do those "educators" think protects their freedom to teach nonsense?
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    who do those "educators" think protects their freedom to teach nonsense?
    I can only just about begin to imagine how a parent, in America, must feel at not being allowed to enter his own daughter's high school because he's wearing a US services Lieutenant Colonel's uniform! And that's where his daughter is being "educated"!!

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, more and more people are thinking Americans are stupid and down right INSANE! THIS simply helps prove the point. And don't forget, they are ALSO disarming the military!!!!!!!!!!

    So the father may have to violate rules, and his daughter has to wait, because some IDIOT thinks he or she seems so superior by creating such a MORONIC rule!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Rochester schools superintendent apologizes to Army officer turned away from school: ‘It cannot happen again’

      I don't that's good enough. The supt. says an "outside firm" is contracted "for security". Got to wonder who contracts them - and who runs those firms.

      This is not acceptable and not excusable. Whoever made this decision needs to be gone.

      We have a bad habit of the "not again" excuse. Things happens that shouldn't be allowed and what we are told it "we need to make sure it doesn't happen again".

      I disagree - I think we need to make sure it doesn't happen AT ALL.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Rochester schools superintendent apologizes to Army officer turned away from school: ‘It cannot happen again’

        .

        This is not acceptable and not excusable. Whoever made this decision needs to be gone.
        Wow, someone needs to be gone for a mistake that caused such terrible devastation in its wake.

        Let me see, a veteran got his feelings hurt because of a mistake that someone made

        . Or maybe just maybe is was a totally INNOCENT mistake and misunderstanding that was brought about by mis- communication from someone at top to the lower level. .

        But NO, even though the guilty parties are remorseful and apologizing ,you say someone still needs to lose their potential livelihood because of this God aweful ,horrible, life altering ,unforgiveable,. abominable and detestable mistake??

        Please
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          The article from The Blaze has been shared 12,000 times in just a couple days. :/ Has anyone read some of the comments at that site? Of course they are making this political and blaming you know who.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            The article from The Blaze has been shared 12,000 times in just a couple days. :/ Has anyone read some of the comments at that site?

            Of course they are making this political and blaming you know who.
            I just did and thanks for the tip Tim.

            They had me LOL on a slow Saturday afternoon while waiting for tonight's fight party to begin.

            Wow!

            Thanks again!


            TL
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Discrat -
          Not sure why it's important enough to go back, pull a quote and argue it a second time. As I said - that was my initial opinion. I've modified my thinking about the incident a bit based on how others viewed the incident.

          I don't care to go the "snide" route with you - so all yours now.

          Tim - I don't see politics in this at all. I see poor judgment and poor training...nothing more.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Tim,

            And this is surprising? There are people who are so obsessed with looking for villains (usually the same one, all the time) that they're incapable of looking at situations objectively. Or even rationally.

            I'm curious. Other than to give the easily distracted among us an excuse to turn this thread political, what purpose was served by introducing that comment?


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Tim,

              And this is surprising? There are people who are so obsessed with looking for villains (usually the same one, all the time) that they're incapable of looking at situations objectively. Or even rationally.

              I'm curious. Other than to give the easily distracted among us an excuse to turn this thread political, what purpose was served by introducing that comment?


              Paul
              Not surprising at all. That's my point. The comments there and the way the article was written can certainly get people riled up more than they need to be. An article like that is meant to do exactly that and this one apparently succeeded with so many shares so quickly.
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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Tim,what purpose was served by introducing that comment?
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Not surprising at all. That's my point. The comments there and the way the article was written can certainly get people riled up more than they need to be. An article like that is meant to do exactly that and this one apparently succeeded with so many shares so quickly.
                Oh, please. Tim, you are one of the few people on this on this forum that intentionally posts politically sensitive topics knowing it will get folks riled up. The article is a fair article and it's your perception of the article that may be a little whack.

                Why are you trying to turn this thread with political slant? You did not comment on the actions or the content of the article. Instead you commented on the site it was posted on and the comments on the article. Almost pure bias as per your usual...

                Good grief.

                As far as the article goes...just another example of the dumbing down of America. Or worse.

                “The security guard told him that men and women in uniform weren’t allowed because it may offend another student,”
                When the uniform of a US Army Lieutenant Colonel offends a student it may be time for the student (and/or others) to do some serious rethinking. An when I said "others" I mean whomever told the security guy to say what he said.

                Cheers

                -don
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                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                  Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                  Oh, please. Tim, you are one of the few people on this on this forum that intentionally posts politically sensitive topics just to get folks riled up.
                  BS. Give some examples of threads I have started that were political and meant to "rile" up people. I rarely start a thread that is about anything that could be considered political. The one exception MIGHT be the thread about the Swiss voting for a guaranteed income in which you threw a gigantic hissy fit about to the point where I just said "F@#$ it" and posted something I knew would get it closed.

                  On the other hand, I have seen Kay start dozens of threads that can be considered political and I never see you jump on her for being biased and political. You know why? Because you usually agree with her. Hey, in the thread about paid leave Steve J is the one who brings up politics, again, by using the antagonistic word "Libbies". I didn't see you jump on him for that. Oh yeah, you didn't point out to him that he is biased and using that word is meant to rile up people because you also agree with him. In fact you thanked him for that post! Lol. Hypocrite.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                    BS. Give some examples of threads I have started that were political and meant to "rile" up people.

                    I rarely start a thread that is about anything that could be considered political. The one exception MIGHT be the thread about the Swiss voting for a guaranteed income in which you threw a gigantic hissy fit about to the point where I just said "F@#$ it" and posted something I knew would get it closed.

                    On the other hand, I have seen Kay start dozens of threads that can be considered political and I never see you jump on her for being biased and political. You know why? Because you usually agree with her. Hey, in the thread about paid leave Steve J is the one who brings up politics, again, by using the antagonistic word "Libbies". I didn't see you jump on him for that. Oh yeah, you didn't point out to him that he is biased and using that word is meant to rile up people because you also agree with him. In fact you thanked him for that post! Lol. Hypocrite.
                    You are making me laugh now, Tim. Here are a few of your example threads of topics that you knew will rile a few people up either politically, racially, or both.

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...after-all.html

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...parations.html

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...-citizens.html

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...d-quarter.html

                    3 of those 4 threads are closed!

                    Now that takes us back to only March 2014 as unfortunately the search only shows us 498 of your recent posts (which have all been to off-topic). I wish Freelancer would FIX the search function.

                    I did not say I agree or disagree with the subject of the topics, I am saying the topics are sure to rile up some. In-fact several more threads have been deleted so I don't know for sure how many of those (if any) may have been your threads.

                    You have also contributed greatly to threads started by Joe. L and T.L. and a few other members that could be considered sensitive, and many of those threads are also closed, which basically proves they were sensitive subjects. An example of your contributions on a thread you did not start would be your massive contribution to the "single payer" thread...which is, of course, closed.

                    Hipocrit? It looks like Steve's post that you referred to must have been removed, and if you can shoot me a screenshot by PM I will be happy to comment on what parts of the post I agree, with and what parts of the post I don't.

                    Your definition of hissy fit must be --> a question Tim Phelan can't (or does not want to) answer. Right?

                    You just admitted to intentionally getting a thread closed (and I have a screenshot of the horrible post you made) that got that thread closed--> and I do believe Paul Myers said something to the effect that anyone that intentionally has a thread shutdown will be banned.

                    If that is not reason for a ban then what is? Right?

                    Now feel free to count the topics that I have startyed that have been closed. I'll tell you that answer, it's ZERO.

                    Cheers

                    -don
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                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                      OK. The Cliven Bundy I plead guilty to although it was in response to a thread started by Kay about Bundy. I didn't start the school shooting thread. The case for reparations was about an excellent article written about a subject that shouldn't be political. I'm not sure why that closed. I was trying to have a discussion about what I think is an important issue. It really didn't get political until one member posted "Retarded, liberal crap." which of course you thanked him for. :/

                      The one about the Swiss vote is an issue which I clearly pointed out goes beyond political boundaries also. That was a thread people seemed to appreciate and for the most part was civil until you jumped in with bombastic posts and snide remarks.

                      The US economy news is political? That thread didn't get closed also and only became political and heated when Pure Vida posted. He got into with Claude and after a misunderstanding between Claude and I, I smoothed it out with Vida. I think it's clear in that thread I wasn't trying to rile anyone up and in fact I got a couple thanks in the OP from Thom and Joe M.

                      Regarding being banned for admitting to have posted with the idea of getting a thread closed, it was my thread. I felt you had contaminated it already and that any further discussion was useless because of your childish rude behavior. If Paul wants to ban me for that, that's fine. I'll take the ban.

                      The post from Steve J is still there. It's the one with "Libbies" in it. You didn't call him out for being political and thanked him for the post, just like you did for the the guy who posted "retarded liberal crap". Lol.

                      For the most part I have tried in the past couple of years to not get political in this forum. You haven't been around as long, but it used to be much worse here. One of the first heated discussions I had here though, was with several people who were 9-11 truthers. Some of those threads went on for months. Because of my stance that the truther conspiracy theories were ridiculous, these people thought I was a conservative who was defending the previous President. lol

                      In 2008 is got really bad here during the election race. I would say 70% to 90% of the posts were against the current President. I felt then and still feel now, that this forum is overwhelmingly comprised of more conservative members. I still see THAT bias. You only seem to see what you perceive as my bias.



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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Discrat -
            Not sure why it's important enough to go back, pull a quote and argue it a second time. As I said - that was my initial opinion. I've modified my thinking about the incident a bit based on how others viewed the incident.

            I don't care to go the "snide" route with you - so all yours now.

            Tim - I don't see politics in this at all. I see poor judgment and poor training...nothing more.

            No snide route. Just responding when I see statements that are extreme and based on spontaneous emotion with questionable rationale ( yes, I have been guilty myself of this )

            If you cant take the heat when someone questions such passionate assertions you make....then well maybe you should think twice about posting them ?

            Of course the OT is notorious for people getting their pants in a wad when someone disagrees with them or has an opposing view !

            (btw, I missed your statement the first time about someone losing their job )
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    I hope they at least have enough class to publicly apologize after their egregious mistake.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      I hope they at least have enough class to publicly apologize after their egregious mistake.
      They already have ... publicly and privately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Unacceptable, sure. But shocking? I don't see it.

    There was a security guard who didn't understand the policies and did something we see as dumb. Who knows what instructions he was given that caused him to misunderstand the rules? Communication with front-line folks is often so bad, or so rife with vague implications, that this sort of thing is bound to happen even in the most well-intentioned systems.

    The school appears to have responded well. They publicly apologized for the misunderstanding and are taking steps to make sure it's not repeated.


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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      This happened in my neck of the woods and I watched the story unfold on the news. I have to tell you that when I first watched it, it drew a tear. My heart went out to both the father and the daughter.

      I don't know, maybe it's because I understand school systems causing parents and their children pain, firsthand.

      Anyway, the principal apologized and made things right. That's good. I never received an apology. I have tremendous respect the him. (the principal)


      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        a security guard who didn't understand the policies
        I could understand that if the problem was a man dressed in shorts or tank top or other "inappropriate" attire. I am shocked that anyone - let alone someone employed at a school - would consider a military uniform to be 'inappropriate'.

        The apology from the school came quickly - was there any comment from the private business supplying those "security personnel"? Will this change that company's policy (if this was a policy) or only apply to that school?
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          I could understand that if the problem was a man dressed in shorts or tank top or other "inappropriate" attire. I am shocked that anyone - let alone someone employed at a school - would consider a military uniform to be 'inappropriate'.

          The apology from the school came quickly - was there any comment from the private business supplying those "security personnel"? Will this change that company's policy (if this was a policy) or only apply to that school?
          Shorts, tee-shirt, military uniform - it's not okay to tell a person they can't cross a school line that the child is crossing. IF the parent can't be there, they at least have the right to retrieve their child. The school, the gov, does not own our children. When we let the school have that kind of authority, we're courting trouble.

          This man was in the uniform of our Republic and was not there in seige, he was escorting his child. The Security Guard should be fired immediately as he is too stupid to react with any common sense. The school might want to change security companies if that is the caliber of the agency's employees. We don't need guards that stupid anywhere.

          As far as the school - other than retaining that service, the admin has reacted as we could have hoped they would. You really can't predict someone doing something like this. Would you have expected that at your school?

          Just one more signal that we need to get people straight that while they are in the US they need to start acting like Americans. If you don't want to be an American - move to a country where you'll be glad to honor their principles.
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          Sal
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Shorts, tee-shirt, military uniform - it's not okay to tell a person they can't cross a school line that the child is crossing. IF the parent can't be there, they at least have the right to retrieve their child. The school, the gov, does not own our children. When we let the school have that kind of authority, we're courting trouble.

            This man was in the uniform of our Republic and was not there in seige, he was escorting his child. The Security Guard should be fired immediately as he is too stupid to react with any common sense. The school might want to change security companies if that is the caliber of the agency's employees. We don't need guards that stupid anywhere.

            As far as the school - other than retaining that service, the admin has reacted as we could have hoped they would. You really can't predict someone doing something like this. Would you have expected that at your school?

            Just one more signal that we need to get people straight that while they are in the US they need to start acting like Americans. If you don't want to be an American - move to a country where you'll be glad to honor their principles.
            A baboon can buy a military uniform. So can a serial killer. Having one proves nothing about a person, including whether or not they are actually in the armed forces. Security guards are there to protect children ... not to be politically correct. I'd prefer a guard acting on behalf of my children err on the side of caution rather than taking a situation at face value and regretting it.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              A baboon can buy a military uniform. So can a serial killer. Having one proves nothing about a person, including whether or not they are actually in the armed forces. Security guards are there to protect children ... not to be politically correct. I'd prefer a guard acting on behalf of my children err on the side of caution rather than taking a situation at face value and regretting it.
              Ding Ding Ding we have a Winner !
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              A baboon can buy a military uniform. So can a serial killer. Having one proves nothing about a person, including whether or not they are actually in the armed forces. Security guards are there to protect children ... not to be politically correct. I'd prefer a guard acting on behalf of my children err on the side of caution rather than taking a situation at face value and regretting it.
              That's true - but there are only so many kids in a school - and they go 5 days a week for 9 or 10 months a year...........and you're telling me that the guards and staff are not familiar with the parents or children? If that is the case, then we have a whole new world of problems.

              When I as a kid my dad could name the parents and the kids by name - - the entire school system. That was part of the job of educating kids was knowing the families and the communities. A guard at a school, there every day should have some idea about who's who, you'd think.
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              Sal
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                That's true - but there are only so many kids in a school - and they go 5 days a week for 9 or 10 months a year...........and you're telling me that the guards and staff are not familiar with the parents or children? If that is the case, then we have a whole new world of problems.

                When I as a kid my dad could name the parents and the kids by name - - the entire school system. That was part of the job of educating kids was knowing the families and the communities. A guard at a school, there every day should have some idea about who's who, you'd think.
                That may be true for you, but I went to schools that had thousands of students and staff that turned around frequently. No one knows how long that guard had been a guard there, and I doubt that he pulled that "no uniform" policy out of his ass. That was his perception of the policy, wrong or right, and the big shot who denied such a policy could be lying to cover his own ass.

                It's likely that military garb was mentioned as something to watch out for, due to school shootings with the unintended consequences of a guard maybe being over-diligent, if anyone protecting children can be accused of over diligence.

                Adam Lanza: A gun safe was in what investigators believed was his bedroom. Among his clothing was a military-style uniform.

                Though Mr. Lanza's life remains mostly opaque, interviews in recent weeks show that he was a socially fragile individual captivated by warfare video games and bent on military service.
                Jared Padgett: "We have this thing where we had to learn how to fold the American flag correctly and I was in his group. He would get really irritated if we messed up," said Guzman, adding that Padgett showed up with his own Army combat uniform before they were handed out in class.

                During the first semester, JROTC students were required to wear either the combat uniform or a dress uniform on Wednesdays, Guzman said. But Padgett, he said, often wore his every day of the week.
                Karl Pierson, Centennial, CO: A school caretaker told local media he saw a student dressed in military-type clothing running through the school and took the threatened teacher outside.

                The janitor told CNN affiliate KMGH on Friday that the student was wearing tactical gear.
                So, just seeing someone in military garb doesn't automatically mean that they deserve respect or that they make you proud to be an American.

                Personally, I'm glad that cooler heads prevail and that a tiny mistake blown out of proportion by the media doesn't cost a man his job.
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                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                  Banned
                  Wow - this thread has has been extremely enlightening and confusing at the same time, but as someone oftentimes pointed to as someone with a propensity for intentionality getting threads closed-down, I feel I must comment.

                  First, while I will admit that I may have, on extremely rare occasions, said some things that were hyperbolic, I am a bit chagrined that anyone would actually ‘report’ a post as being too ‘anything.’ Maybe I’m old school but I believe in the old adage that if you are going to dish it out, you had damn well be able to take it. I do both, exceedingly well and am proud of it. Both are skills that I have spent decades honing in an effort to discuss things, forcefully, in an effort to staunchly defend my point of view, which last time I checked was one of the ‘freedoms’ afforded me and one that many here are constantly ranting about. I’m amazed by folks who are very concerned about their own cherished personal freedoms, but could not care less about anyone else’s. I am now discovering by reading this thread that there are people here that will only engage you to the point where they feel they have been able to ‘keep up’ and once they start to fall behind in the discourse, they will either report you or make a strong effort to get the debate terminated. I say, again - WOW!!! This is something that I have never even considered taking place. I guess that I shouldn’t be, but I’m actually shocked to have this pointed out so clearly in this thread.

                  I don’t believe that I have ever said anything about anyone in this forum that I regret - at least not anything that I meant to say and was interpreted correctly. That does not mean that I have not said things that I might not have softened if given the opportunity to think a bit longer. Those instances, however, are few and far between. Hell, there has been more than one occasion where I have actually apologized to people, both in public and in private for things that I have said if I felt my unpleasantness should not have been directed at them. However, while some may find instances where they felt that posts of mine were over the line, that’s on them. I make absolutely no apology for that. I leave that up to the Mods, which I have found to be uniformly fair.

                  I read an endless stream of crap from a few people here that wish that I and others would simply accept their perverted world view as fact, when anyone the least bit rational will recognize it as delusion rooted in irrational fear and overt hatred for others. Yes, that’s what I said, unadulterated hatred for those that don’t prescribe to their precepts. What they wish is never going to happen. I will call them on that crap in every single instance.

                  Now, I have been around forums since long before they were called forums and longer than a few of our denizens have graced the planet. I’m well aware of the fact that cliques are a forum fact of life and there is nothing that is less tolerated than some newbie coming along and spouting-off, especially to someone that others may hold in high regard. I get that. Have I ever let it deter me from saying anything that I felt needed to be said? Never. I actually believe in free speech and the extremely wide range of expression that should accompany it. What I see are individuals that profess to be supporters of free speech but then you discover quickly that they only think you have that right as long as your speech in totally in lockstep with their own. The slightest deviation from their beliefs and then your right to free speech is either limited or quickly terminated. Of course you see this most often by those that publicly offer up their intense loathing of their country, so the behavior should not be all that surprising. Since they can’t actually understand what it means to hold sacred the ideals of a country that they publicly despise, what you see is all that you can expect from them. That should not, however, afford them any opportunity to hinder the rights of others to state their beliefs.

                  On another point - I am confused by what many refer to here as a ‘personal attack.’ If I accuse you of coming here to hawk your wares in a less than honest fashion, without any proof to back up my claim, THAT is a personal attack. If I have proof that others agree with, then I’m simply stating a fact, whether you feel attacked, or not. If I have not said or done something that could be injurious to your bank account, placed you under scrutiny by your local child welfare agency or gotten you fired from your job, then you have not been personally attacked. I’ve only said something that may have wounded your pride or delicate sensibilities. Butch up, Loretta. You’ll live and you are probably bestowing entirely too much importance upon my words. Do you actually care that much as to what I have to say? That’s funny because although I may consciously choose to waste a few minutes of my time to engage you on a given topic, at the end of the day I really couldn’t give a hairy rat’s behind what you think, feel, say or do any virtually any subject in the world. Why would I and why should I? It doesn’t intimately effect my life or my world. Your spouting-off is nothing more than your thoughts on any subject at any point on any given day. The same holds true for my rants. They mean virtually nothing. They are, for all intents and purpose, totally meaningless in the grand scheme of life.

                  There are a few people here that after watching the way that they conduct themselves, and not just in the OT, that I have come to hold in extremely high regard and who’s opinion I value and although it’s an rare anomaly, that also includes their opinion of me (yes, I’m actually human and this only applies to those that I have come to respect. The rest of you can go screw). When one of them will PM me and tell me that they felt that I made a personal attack on someone, I will devote an inordinate amount of introspection to that occurrence in an all out effort to discern the actual likelihood of their observation being accurately construed. In the few instances where that scenario has arisen, what I have eventually deduced is that they are simply much kinder, gentler and well-reasoned individuals than I can ever dream of being concerning the instance in question. Additionally, it is disturbing to realize that they start to form an opinion of you based on your comments when in actuality they should view the action only within the context of the isolated incident.

                  So, yes - it’s obvious that many here only have a complaint with political posts once they veer from their own way of thinking. I’m no brain trust but a lot of what I read here is deeply disappointing. I don’t have to agree with anyone to acknowledge the fact that they are firm in how they present their points, will at least display a modicum of respect for your strongly held beliefs and are able to go mano a mano (sorry, ladies) without having to go crying to the Mods every time someone post something they don’t agree with and are willing to label it in a way to bolster their outrage. What a bunch of wimps. Oh, wait - is that a personal attack? Maybe on a kindergarten playground, but it shouldn’t be here.

                  Ya know, I get disgusted and actually feel like puking when I have to listen to the America haters go on and on about everything that is so incredibly wrong with this country. It’s the ‘taker’s,’ the folks who actually think that they deserve a living wage, the unions, the teachers, every branch of government, the Kenyan president trying to fundamentally change America when he’s not apologizing for everything we have ever done and so on and so on. I sit and read this crap every single day, though it is oftentimes couched in code. But the bottom line is that as a veteran I will defend anyone’s right to say anything they want about any aspect of our country’s place in the world and their beliefs about their own place in our country, because THAT is what freedom means. While their words sicken me and make me feel extremely sorry for them, I would never do anything to stop them from stating their point of view. I also think that it’s a good thing that they, through their own volition, publicly out themselves so others will know what type of people they truly are. Yet, if I make a statement as to what type of person I believe them to be, respect for my freedom flies out the window. How can someone use the word ‘libbie’ but if I use the word ‘crud’ I am somehow making a personal attack on someone? I just don’t get that. I might take just as much offense to being called a ‘libbie’ because I know how denigrating the hurler wants that word to be with all that it means to them, as they might not like being called ‘crud.’ Why is one allowed and not the other? Who holds the rulebook on which words are socially acceptable and how much do I need to PayPal to get my authorized copy? Why is one taken as perfectly acceptable and the other as a ‘personal attack?

                  That, simply put, is a cruddy way to run a forum. No ‘personal attack’ intended.

                  Cheers. - Frank

                  P.S. For the record, outside of 5 AM SPAM, I have never reported any post by anyone. Additionally, I have never actually called anyone here, 'crud,' although I oftentimes find myself wishing that I had. lol

                  I expect this post to be visible for around 10 minutes, tops and you can PM for entrance into the pool that I have formed to lay bets on who will be the first to report it? lol
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    I'd be the first to thank it, Frank - but I seem to be out of thanks today.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                    Wow - this thread has has been extremely enlightening and confusing at the same time, but as someone oftentimes pointed to as someone with a propensity for intentionality getting threads closed-down, I feel I must comment.

                    First, while I will admit that I may have, on extremely rare occasions, said some things that were hyperbolic, I am a bit chagrined that anyone would actually ‘report’ a post as being too ‘anything.’ Maybe I’m old school but I believe in the old adage that if you are going to dish it out, you had damn well be able to take it. I do both, exceedingly well and am proud of it. Both are skills that I have spent decades honing in an effort to discuss things, forcefully, in an effort to staunchly defend my point of view, which last time I checked was one of the ‘freedoms’ afforded me and one that many here are constantly ranting about. I’m amazed by folks who are very concerned about their own cherished personal freedoms, but could not care less about anyone else’s. I am now discovering by reading this thread that there are people here that will only engage you to the point where they feel they have been able to ‘keep up’ and once they start to fall behind in the discourse, they will either report you or make a strong effort to get the debate terminated. I say, again - WOW!!! This is something that I have never even considered taking place. I guess that I shouldn’t be, but I’m actually shocked to have this pointed out so clearly in this thread.

                    I don’t believe that I have ever said anything about anyone in this forum that I regret - at least not anything that I meant to say and was interpreted correctly. That does not mean that I have not said things that I might not have softened if given the opportunity to think a bit longer. Those instances, however, are few and far between. Hell, there has been more than one occasion where I have actually apologized to people, both in public and in private for things that I have said if I felt my unpleasantness should not have been directed at them. However, while some may find instances where they felt that posts of mine were over the line, that’s on them. I make absolutely no apology for that. I leave that up to the Mods, which I have found to be uniformly fair.

                    I read an endless stream of crap from a few people here that wish that I and others would simply accept their perverted world view as fact, when anyone the least bit rational will recognize it as delusion rooted in irrational fear and overt hatred for others. Yes, that’s what I said, unadulterated hatred for those that don’t prescribe to their precepts. What they wish is never going to happen. I will call them on that crap in every single instance.

                    Now, I have been around forums since long before they were called forums and longer than a few of our denizens have graced the planet. I’m well aware of the fact that cliques are a forum fact of life and there is nothing that is less tolerated than some newbie coming along and spouting-off, especially to someone that others may hold in high regard. I get that. Have I ever let it deter me from saying anything that I felt needed to be said? Never. I actually believe in free speech and the extremely wide range of expression that should accompany it. What I see are individuals that profess to be supporters of free speech but then you discover quickly that they only think you have that right as long as your speech in totally in lockstep with their own. The slightest deviation from their beliefs and then your right to free speech is either limited or quickly terminated. Of course you see this most often by those that publicly offer up their intense loathing of their country, so the behavior should not be all that surprising. Since they can’t actually understand what it means to hold sacred the ideals of a country that they publicly despise, what you see is all that you can expect from them. That should not, however, afford them any opportunity to hinder the rights of others to state their beliefs.

                    On another point - I am confused by what many refer to here as a ‘personal attack.’ If I accuse you of coming here to hawk your wares in a less than honest fashion, without any proof to back up my claim, THAT is a personal attack. If I have proof that others agree with, then I’m simply stating a fact, whether you feel attacked, or not. If I have not said or done something that could be injurious to your bank account, placed you under scrutiny by your local child welfare agency or gotten you fired from your job, then you have not been personally attacked. I’ve only said something that may have wounded your pride or delicate sensibilities. Butch up, Loretta. You’ll live and you are probably bestowing entirely too much importance upon my words. Do you actually care that much as to what I have to say? That’s funny because although I may consciously choose to waste a few minutes of my time to engage you on a given topic, at the end of the day I really couldn’t give a hairy rat’s behind what you think, feel, say or do any virtually any subject in the world. Why would I and why should I? It doesn’t intimately effect my life or my world. Your spouting-off is nothing more than your thoughts on any subject at any point on any given day. The same holds true for my rants. They mean virtually nothing. They are, for all intents and purpose, totally meaningless in the grand scheme of life.

                    There are a few people here that after watching the way that they conduct themselves, and not just in the OT, that I have come to hold in extremely high regard and who’s opinion I value and although it’s an rare anomaly, that also includes their opinion of me (yes, I’m actually human and this only applies to those that I have come to respect. The rest of you can go screw). When one of them will PM me and tell me that they felt that I made a personal attack on someone, I will devote an inordinate amount of introspection to that occurrence in an all out effort to discern the actual likelihood of their observation being accurately construed. In the few instances where that scenario has arisen, what I have eventually deduced is that they are simply much kinder, gentler and well-reasoned individuals than I can ever dream of being concerning the instance in question. Additionally, it is disturbing to realize that they start to form an opinion of you based on your comments when in actuality they should view the action only within the context of the isolated incident.

                    So, yes - it’s obvious that many here only have a complaint with political posts once they veer from their own way of thinking. I’m no brain trust but a lot of what I read here is deeply disappointing. I don’t have to agree with anyone to acknowledge the fact that they are firm in how they present their points, will at least display a modicum of respect for your strongly held beliefs and are able to go mano a mano (sorry, ladies) without having to go crying to the Mods every time someone post something they don’t agree with and are willing to label it in a way to bolster their outrage. What a bunch of wimps. Oh, wait - is that a personal attack? Maybe on a kindergarten playground, but it shouldn’t be here.

                    Ya know, I get disgusted and actually feel like puking when I have to listen to the America haters go on and on about everything that is so incredibly wrong with this country. It’s the ‘taker’s,’ the folks who actually think that they deserve a living wage, the unions, the teachers, every branch of government, the Kenyan president trying to fundamentally change America when he’s not apologizing for everything we have ever done and so on and so on. I sit and read this crap every single day, though it is oftentimes couched in code. But the bottom line is that as a veteran I will defend anyone’s right to say anything they want about any aspect of our country’s place in the world and their beliefs about their own place in our country, because THAT is what freedom means. While their words sicken me and make me feel extremely sorry for them, I would never do anything to stop them from stating their point of view. I also think that it’s a good thing that they, through their own volition, publicly out themselves so others will know what type of people they truly are. Yet, if I make a statement as to what type of person I believe them to be, respect for my freedom flies out the window. How can someone use the word ‘libbie’ but if I use the word ‘crud’ I am somehow making a personal attack on someone? I just don’t get that. I might take just as much offense to being called a ‘libbie’ because I know how denigrating the hurler wants that word to be with all that it means to them, as they might not like being called ‘crud.’ Why is one allowed and not the other? Who holds the rulebook on which words are socially acceptable and how much do I need to PayPal to get my authorized copy? Why is one taken as perfectly acceptable and the other as a ‘personal attack?

                    That, simply put, is a cruddy way to run a forum. No ‘personal attack’ intended.

                    Cheers. - Frank

                    P.S. For the record, outside of 5 AM SPAM, I have never reported any post by anyone. Additionally, I have never actually called anyone here, 'crud,' although I oftentimes find myself wishing that I had. lol

                    I expect this post to be visible for around 10 minutes, tops and you can PM for entrance into the pool that I have formed to lay bets on who will be the first to report it? lol

                    Thanks for your honesty. It was quite refreshing, actually.

                    Now that being said, I'll be the first to let you know that I only thanked your post as a camouflage of being the one who reported it. I reported it because you didn't name me personally as being a member who you have come to hold in extremely high regard and who’s opinion you value. Okay, you didn't name any names, but I know I wasn't one of them because the only PM you ever sent me was a link so I could see the fish that you raise/breed.

                    I take that as a "personal attack". Well, that and that you used the word "crud'. Of all the offensive words I've ever heard of, that's the worst to me. And I'm sorry if you think that's very kindergarten playgroundish of me, but while in kindergarten, my best friend's name was Libbie, it was short for Elizabeth and she was the nicest, little kid. It really isn't an insult when you're called a Libbie, but actually, it's quite the compliment.

                    Okay, it was getting a little tense in here, did I at least get a half smile out of ya?


                    Terra
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                      Thanks for your honesty. It was quite refreshing, actually.
                      Thanks - I'm not always a total mook. Only, usually.
                      Now that being said, I'll be the first to let you know that I only thanked your post as a camouflage of being the one who reported it.
                      I'm not the least bit surprised. I had you pegged all along. At least you copped to it. That, alone, is admirable.
                      I reported it because you didn't name me personally as being a member who you have come to hold in extremely high regard and who's opinion you value.
                      Well, I do a lot of things wrong, but I try to never fib. Hee-hee!
                      Okay, you didn't name any names, but I know I wasn't one of them because the only PM you ever sent me was a link so I could see the fish that you raise/breed.
                      I think I have PM'd three times since I have been here and two of those were to say arrivederci after having enough of being slammed. Yes, I know - sometimes I'm too sensitive for my own good. Of course, I only stayed around because they said I should. Boy, I'll bet those two nimrods are ruing the day that they proposed THAT.
                      I take that as a "personal attack". Well, that and that you used the word "crud'. Of all the offensive words I've ever heard of, that's the worst to me.
                      A word I only use on extremely rare occasions that I reserve for the absolute worst of the worst. I love that word and what it means to me. I just love the way it rolls off the tongue, though I'm not sure if 'rolls' is the proper term. 'Lunges' may be a better choice. Not as smooth as the word, 'turd' but few are. Just say that one out loud a few times with a slight elongation. That word borders on poetry, all by its lonesome.
                      And I'm sorry if you think that's very kindergarten playgroundish of me, but while in kindergarten, my best friend's name was Libbie, it was short for Elizabeth and she was the nicest, little kid. It really isn't an insult when you're called a Libbie, but actually, it's quite the compliment.
                      I regard the term as a compliment, even when it's hurled in a demeaning and/or derogatory fashion, which is most of the time. Everyone knows that it means that someone is an educated progressive with an erudite world view. No shame in that. More along the lines of a badge of honor. lol
                      Okay, it was getting a little tense in here, did I at least get a half smile out of ya? Terra
                      Agreed. It might be time for me to get this puppy shut down. lol Hey, we all excel at something in life and I was a bit miffed that my name wasn't even mentioned in the list of offenders. All of a sudden I'm chopped-liver. Talk about wasted effort.

                      I'm getting to old for this game.

                      Cheers. - Frank
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                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                        A word I only use on extremely rare occasions that I reserve for the absolute worst of the worst. I love that word and what it means to me. I just love the way it rolls off the tongue, though I'm not sure if 'rolls' is the proper term. 'Lunges' may be a better choice. Not as smooth as the word, 'turd' but few are. Just say that one out loud a few times with a slight elongation. That word borders on poetry, all by its lonesome.


                        Cheers. - Frank
                        Here's just a quick little tip...

                        If you roll your "r", then the word crud not only lunges, but it rolls off the tongue as well.


                        Terra
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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                          Here's just a quick little tip...

                          If you roll your "r", then the word crud not only lunges, but it rolls of the tongue as well. Terra
                          Wow. That actually works and it's a beautiful thing. :-)

                          Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                    Wow - this thread has has been extremely enlightening and confusing at the same time, but as someone oftentimes pointed to as someone with a propensity for intentionality getting threads closed-down, I feel I must comment.

                    First, while I will admit that I may have, on extremely rare occasions, said some things that were hyperbolic, I am a bit chagrined that anyone would actually ‘report’ a post as being too ‘anything.’
                    It looks like someone may have reported this one, your post was the last post to the thread before it was closed. Bummer, too bad I missed that thread...it looks like an interesting one.

                    The conservatives answer to the dilemma of hungry cattle and starving children?

                    Grind up the children and feed them to the cattle. Problem solved.

                    Yes - it was worth getting banned over. See you all in a few days. lol

                    Cheers. - Frank

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9105473
                    Have a good day, Frank.

                    -don
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                      It looks like someone may have reported this one, your post was the last post to the thread before it was closed.
                      That was closed about 15 seconds after that post. Someone was sitting with their finger on the trigger.
                      Bummer, too bad I missed that thread...it looks like an interesting one.
                      Yeah, pretty good. I think I actually got my 'napalm' remark in on that one. A beautiful thing to behold. lol
                      Have a good day, Frank.
                      Almost over - but, you too.

                      Cheers. - Frank
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                      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                        Yeah, pretty good. I think I actually got my 'napalm' remark in on that one. A beautiful thing
                        Cheers. - Frank
                        Nah, that was a different thread that you closed down with the Napalm remark about 10 days later. I have no idea who reported it though as that was another thread that I did not have the privilege of seeing at the time. Obviously Tim liked both of those posts though.



                        It appears as if you you closed both of those Bundy threads and your work on Mr. Bundy was done!

                        Cheers

                        -don
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                        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                          Nah, that was a different thread that you closed down with the Napalm remark about 10 days later.
                          Hard for me to keep up with my prolific output. I'm glad that someone is paying attention. :-)
                          I have no idea who reported it though as that was another thread that I did not have the privilege of seeing at the time. Obviously Tim liked both of those posts though.
                          Actually, I log-in under my other ID and report my own post just to get attention.
                          It appears as if you you closed both of those Bundy threads
                          Not true, at all. All I do is submit my post. Someone else must take the blame for the fact that they can't handle my bon mots and zap them. What is a poet to do???
                          and your work on Mr. Bundy was done!
                          It wasn't so much him as his deranged supporters.

                          Of course, just like the 'terror mosque' at Ground Zero, the Central American kids streaming across the border and in around two more days, the Ray Rice story - they are gone.

                          Cheers. - Frank
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                            Hard for me to keep up with my prolific output. I'm glad that someone is paying attention. :-)
                            Actually, I log-in under my other ID and report my own post just to get attention.
                            Not true, at all. All I do is submit my post. Someone else must take the blame for the fact that they can't handle my bon mots and zap them. What is a poet to do???
                            It wasn't so much him as his deranged supporters.

                            Of course, just like the 'terror mosque' at Ground Zero, the Central American kids streaming across the border and in around two more days, the Ray Rice story - they are gone.

                            Cheers. - Frank
                            ah memories of threads gone by. the Napalm one was a "gas" lol.
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                            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                              ah memories of threads gone by. the Napalm one was a "gas" lol.
                              I was at my pithiest, too, :-)

                              Cheers. - Frank
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                          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                            Hard for me to keep up with my prolific output. I'm glad that someone is paying attention. :-)
                            Actually, since you mentioned your Napalm remark was a "beautiful thing to behold" I figured it was worth the look, and went out on a limb thinking you wouldn't mind seeing it again in full color. Easy enough to accommodate so I did a quick search, and as anticipated, the post was quite quickly found.

                            Actually, I log-in under my other ID and report my own post just to get attention.
                            Ahhhhh.... I see how some of you guys may work your post closing magic now. Not super creative, but effective I suppose.

                            Not true, at all. All I do is submit my post. Someone else must take the blame for the fact that they can't handle my bon mots and zap them.
                            Hmmmm..... You just said you logged in as different user and reported the posts, so I guess we may be able assume you yourself can't handle your own bon mots. Hahaha...that's a funny one, eh?

                            What is a poet to do???
                            Poetry?

                            It wasn't so much him as his deranged supporters.
                            Thanks for the clarification that you did not want to Napalm the cretin.

                            Of course, just like the 'terror mosque' at Ground Zero, the Central American kids streaming across the border and in around two more days, the Ray Rice story - they are gone.
                            I guess we may see your next masterpiece soon.

                            Cheers

                            -don
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                            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                              Actually, since you mentioned your Napalm remark was a "beautiful thing to behold" I figured it was worth the look, and went out on a limb thinking you wouldn't mind seeing it again in full color. Easy enough to accommodate, so I did a quick search, and as anticipated, the post was quite easy to find.
                              I have downloaded that for posterity. I appreciate your effort on my behalf.
                              Ahhh, I see how some of you guys may work your post closing magic now. Not super creative, but effective I suppose.
                              Well, we have to work fast to beat you to the punch. Hee-hee!
                              Ahhhhh, you just said you logged in as different user and reported the posts so I guess we may be able assume you yourself can't handle your own posts. Hahaha...that's a funny one.
                              I'm glad that you are so easily amused. :-)
                              Poetry?
                              Have you heard any of what passes for poetry, these days? My efforts are certainly no worse.
                              Thanks for the clarification.
                              Always happy to set you straight.
                              I guess we may see another your next masterpieces soon.
                              I am always surveying the lansdcape in an effort to target my next victim.

                              I need a job. :-(

                              Cheers. - Frank
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                                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                  If I was Mr. Freelancer and owed the forum, I'd make the song the Official Anthem of the Off Topic Forum. Each of us would have to sing it every day, with our hands over our hearts, before posting here.

                                  Plus, as a single guy, the video gave me a great idea...I can just buy a couple of breast implants, no need for "installation", and save myself the cost of dinner and drinks. Life is looking up!
                                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                  Update: Looks like I'll need to buy 3 implants to keep up with the Joans...
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                                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                  MOM!!! :-(

                                  Cheers. - Frank
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                                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                    Thanks for the giggles guys, It was just what I needed!!


                                    Terra
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                    Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                    MOM!!! :-(

                                    Cheers. - Frank
                                    A woman has three breasts and Frank yells "Mom"...where's Freud when you need him?
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                              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                                Banned
                                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                                I have downloaded that for posterity. I appreciate your effort on my behalf.
                                No problem.

                                Well, we have to work fast to beat you to the punch. Hee-hee!
                                Good one, but not so true as I can't remember reporting many, if any, of your posts. Heck, when you were closing those threads I was not even reading or participating in this section. Wow, look at all of the highly intelligent posts that I missed in real time.

                                Dang...

                                I'm glad that you are so easily amused. :-)
                                Some folks on here are fairly amusing, the only problem with that is many are not trying to be amusing, instead they have posted something so outrageous or stupid it becomes amusing. In-other-words...some of the economic and political "experts" on here are so far off base they are closer to the comedy club than a political science or economics class, or a Jr. High School debate team.

                                Always up for a good laugh though...

                                Have you heard any of what passes for poetry, these days? My efforts are certainly no worse.
                                I think we may agree on that.

                                Always happy to set you straight.
                                Straight? Or do yo mean left?

                                I am always surveying the lansdcape in an effort to target my next victim
                                Yeah, I got you, just like the professional hitman on the real video games.

                                I need a job. :-(
                                I don't know about that, but I'll take your word for it.

                                Cheers

                                -don
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                • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  So, just seeing someone in military garb doesn't automatically mean that they deserve respect or that they make you proud to be an American.
                  Nor does it mean we automatically treat them with suspicion and turn them away. Especially if walking in unarmed with their daughter.

                  It would be just as easy to post as examples the names of the 9/11 hijackers, the Boston bombers, those Americans fighting for ISIS, etc. But I guarantee you there isn't a policy to turn away Muslims at the door who are wearing turbans or burkas. I can understand where some might find them just as scary and offensive, especially when cherry picking examples.

                  Let's not forget that the security guard was also in uniform. There are more than enough examples of security cops gone wild to warrant the same fears.

                  There are no easy answers, no cookie-cutter solutions. In a perfect world, respect for others would be the default position. Personally, I think we've gone too far down the rabbit hole for that to ever be a reality. But it should be something we strive towards.

                  The concerns you and others raised are legitimate, but I think the default position for those who serve in uniform should be respect, whether they be military or police. We actually used to teach that in school. Yes, there will always be the bad ones, and they should be removed as soon as possible. Unfortunately, some will always fall through the cracks, no matter what safeguards are in place. But if we ever get to the point where that respect is completely lost, then we have lost.

                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  Personally, I'm glad that cooler heads prevail and that a tiny mistake blown out of proportion by the media doesn't cost a man his job.
                  I agree. Unless it can be shown that he did this out of spite or his own personal bias, which I doubt, I don't see anything that amounts to a terminable offense. To his credit, he at least gave Baker phone numbers to call so that someone above him could make the final decision (although I do think the guard should have made the call himself). Baker made at least one call and was promptly escorted inside. Swift apologies followed. Done deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, I HAVE heard that some schools, perhaps all, restrict fatigues and camouflage attire, but it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE, that many military people wear them during the day and may, at times, be REQUIRED to wear them. The idea that anyone would ask them to change is tantamount to asking a banker, or ANYONE, to switch to casual clothes from a suit. Some jobs and areas REQUIRE such things. HECK, military people often have a name tag sewn on as well. I doubt there are many that would imitate THAT. If need be, they could ask for ID, if they don't see it, and let only military wear military clothes.

    And the way things are going, they MAY end up telling people that they can't wear suits because it "offends the poor" or some such. NEWSFLASH! Even a POOR person can wear a suit,

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Here's a thought: Zero tolerance dress code. The guard would have been doing his job to enforce it. The school system could well have simply not thought of the exception of military uniforms.

    Or they may not want someone in camo wandering the halls. You can imagine the thoughts that could engender in some of the students in an area where camo means "armed hunter." If that's what went through the guard's mind, I'm not sure I'd fault him.

    We don't know how the situation happened. It could be some control freak misusing authority, and it could be a simple conflict between policy and common sense. If he thought breaking policy could get you fired and enforcing it causes no real harm, one can understand enforcing the policy.

    Could be a new employee. Probably was, given the family said he's not had this problem before.

    It's a one person screw-up, which the family seems to feel was appropriately addressed. Hardly a cause for such outrage.


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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Paul -

      I'm sure you are right. With a lot of military in my family, this is a shocking story to me on first read. My own son was in and out of day care, pre-school and every grade through high school for teacher conferences - lunch with his kids or whatever - and most often he was in uniform.

      In the end, you are responsible for the actions of people you employ. The head of the school took the blame for it and handled it well.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Here's a thought: Zero tolerance dress code.
      I had to deal with zero tolerance this, that, and the other thing when my youngest was in high school. Like I told one of her principals, I've got zero tolerance for zero tolerance. It's one of the dumbest ideas out there.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Thom,

        ZT policies are the result of this kind of uninformed outrage. People demand absolutes so they get the only kind that can be made: Dumb ones.

        The problem is that we, as a society, are unwilling to accept that giving people discretion will result in at least minor inconsistencies. Those are blown up into ridiculous issues and used to bludgeon people who mean well and are simply human. "UNFAIR! Johnny got to do X, and my kid couldn't!" (Doesn't matter that Johnny was being sane and your kid was an abusive bully in the same situation...)

        Context isn't allowed, because it leaves room for interpretation. Thus, we have a kid being forced to sign a statement that he was breaking the rules about weapons in school for having a 1.5" Lego soldier in his possession.

        (I may be commingling two stories there, but the point stands.)

        Common sense is now grounds for lawsuits, even when no actual harm is done to anyone. Mindless absolutism is seen as the best way to avoid liability, so that's what we end up with.

        It also saves the people in charge from the effort of thinking, or explaining themselves rationally to irrationally offended idiots. No shortage of the latter these daze.


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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Oh please. What is so shocking about this ?

          Whats the big deal ?

          The Security guard probably had specific orders to follow certain protocol. Put yourself in his position.
          You do not know the exactly context of how this all came about

          Sure these Rules may need to be amended.

          But this is far from Shocking.

          I have tremendous respect for the Military and have had family serve in a honorably way.

          The Lives that have been sacrificed for our Freedom ....well you cannot even begin to pay back on any level.

          With this being said, I am sick of the ultra sensitive politically correct stance everyone takes when even the slightest hint of disrespect towards a military person occurs !
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            I'm not one usually "shocked" - but this did shock me. Having people say "it shouldn't" doesn't change the fact that it did.

            It's not the "school aspect" I found shocking - it is that anyone guarding access to a public property would consider a person in military uniform "unacceptable".

            It's been fixed and is done. Zero tolerance to me is an admission that we don't have any common sense or enough intelligence to make decisions on a case by case basis.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      It's a one person screw-up, which the family seems to feel was appropriately addressed. Hardly a cause for such outrage.


      Paul
      Paul; No. Everything is a cause for outrage. Where have you been?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Paul; No. Everything is a cause for outrage. Where have you been?
        Sorry, Claude. I was distracted by a guy who was outraged that his ad was deleted from Main Discussion. What were you saying?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The REALLY shocking thing is I am NOT kidding about the suits prediction. One RESTAURANT recently stopped advertising BACON! WHY? Because it "offended" a muslim woman! GIVE ME A BREAK! PORK products at least WERE a COMMON STAPLE in American Breakfasts. Jewish people didn't mind, even though it is common knowledge that many jewish people don't eat pork products, or even CHEESE BURGERS(Because some rabbis advise keeping milk and meat separate, and cheese is based on milk)!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Just my guess, but this "mistake" probably occurred due to the sensitive nature of anyone in military looking or para-military gear, appearing that they may be an armed nutbag there to blast the children to smithereens. An unfortunate consequence of Sandy Hook and other school shootings. The security was probably trained to look out for certain things, certain attire being one of them. His mistake was likely an innocent mistake with the protection of the children his priority.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Just my guess, but this "mistake" probably occurred due to the sensitive nature of anyone in military looking or para-military gear, appearing that they may be an armed nutbag there to blast the children to smithereens. An unfortunate consequence of Sandy Hook and other school shootings. The security was probably trained to look out for certain things, certain attire being one of them. His mistake was likely an innocent mistake with the protection of the children his priority.
      You're absolutely right, Suzanne, and it is better to err on the side of safety rather than the alternative.

      All has been made right in the situation and it's too bad that we can't just can't keep well enough alone...

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Robert,
    If you cant take the heat when someone questions such passionate assertions you make....then well maybe you should think twice about posting them ?
    Mote, allow me to introduce Timber.

    I thought your comments were pretty snide, too, FWIW.


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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Robert,Mote, allow me to introduce Timber.

      I thought your comments were pretty snide, too, FWIW.


      Paul
      Paul,
      I respectfully beg to differ on your assertion that my remarks were snide

      But that is what makes Forums like this so good because we can all feel free to have opinions and express them in a reasonable and well thought out manner and (hopefully) not get our panties in a wad when someone might just happen to God forbid disagree with us and have an opposing view
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        But weren't you the one getting in the wad? I don't have a problem with people having different opinions - only when they tell me I don't have a right to my opinion.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          But weren't you the one getting in the wad? I don't have a problem with people having different opinions - only when they tell me I don't have a right to my opinion.
          You got mad because I pointed out how irrational your assertion was about someone needing to lose their job over this.

          And you got mad about the manner I was driving home my point (how it made no sense to fire someone over a potentially innocent error.) So you said it was snide and that you were through with responding because it was different than your view point and your Ego was hurt..

          ( I guess you weren't through with the comments uh ?? :>) )

          Sure I used sarcasm. And I am so sure You are just so against using any sarcasm to bring home a point ?? Of course you would never do that would you ?


          I just think there is a lot of irony exhibited here especially amongst longstanding members that goes on all the time
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Even the Detroit Free Press (A Gannett Company) reported on this...and 723 people as of today had posted a comment.

    Shaner told the Free Press Friday that the district has no policy excluding military members from schools and he’s sorry that people have concluded that it does.

    “I’ve profusely apologized to the parents,”
    “I wasn’t allowed access to the building because I was in uniform.” Baker told Beckmann, adding that one security officer told him he worried that special education students might “go crazy” at the sight of his uniform.
    “The superintendent was shocked and appalled and disgusted,” Ferhadson told the Army Times. “He didn’t expect that to come out of his school district.”
    “Last night was Curriculum Night. ... The parents get sort of a syllabus for the year,” she said, adding that “lots of parents had Army T-shirts on, camouflage pants” in a show of support for Baker, who attended.

    http://www.freep.com/article/2014091...ter-Adams-High
    The Daily Mail also has a decent sized piece...

    Army officer banned from entering daughter's high school because his military uniform 'may offend another student'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-student.html
    Etc. etc. etc.

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, I will be the first to say that this is the latest example of something that has been happening for DECADES! I think I have noticed it to a striking degree for maybe 30 years or so. When I was in school, maybe obviously racist stuff from whites wouldn't be allowed, and that may have been it. I generally never wear more than a little ad for a product, and even THAT is rare, so I couldn't say much more. I don't even cuss. So I was never suspended, etc...

    TODAY, almost ANYTHING could get you thrown out of school, etc... If you have a foreign language book that LOOKS like it says something off in english, the bible, a cross, clothing that uses what some school "official" considers GANG colors, a US flag, a "don't tread on me" flag, a pop tart shaped like a gun, shooting signal with your hand, camouflage clothing, etc....

    SERIOUSLY! I heard about a guy SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOL because he had RED SHOELACES!!!!!!!! YES, you read that right! The EXPLANATION? GANG COLORS! A store is now being fined about $10,000 a day, IIRC, because they have a "don't tread on me" flag outside!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I have seen Kay start dozens of threads that can be considered political and I never see you jump on her for being biased and political.
      Is that a version of "but Dad - she poked me first"? Please leave me out of it.

      Discrat -

      I wasn't angry at comments here - but don't choose to engage in discussion with you because I've seen your comments and reactions in other threads. Not my cup of tea so I'll opt out.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Is that a version of "but Dad - she poked me first"? Please leave me out of it.

        Discrat -

        I wasn't angry at comments here - but don't choose to engage in discussion with you because I've seen your comments and reactions in other threads. Not my cup of tea so I'll opt out.
        Oh Lordy,
        If that is not Pot/ Black !! I do not know what is
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Hahaha! Now I have heard it all, Tim. I "contaminated" that thread by asking you direct questions on the subject of the thread that you refused to answer, and that is the facts jack. What a joke! Go back and read the thread, my posts are still there, and it's obvious to everyone that reads it that you refused to answer the legitimate questions that I proposed to you. You could not answer the questions so you decided to post a personal attack against several forum members which got your post deleted and the thread closed. I (and a few others) showed you how tough that would be to make work in the US so you decided to close your own thread down. It was a discussion on a public forum, it was not your own personal soapbox thread. On that reparations thread you actually thanked me for my last post to the thread! C'mon, man!

    As far as Steve J's post goes, I thought you were talking about a post on this thread. Yeah, I agree with the jist of what Steve said on that thread as did GlobalTrader, Joe Mobley, Kay King and ThomM. No big deal. If I started pointing out a few of the forum posts that you have thanked, some people on here would be appalled to say the least! Geesh, dude, I did not even participate on that thread with a comment!

    Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

    So you mandate 2 or 3 weeks of paid leave per year for whatever the reason du jour is.

    Where do you think it's going to come from???

    I'll tell you where it comes from - the wage pool of the company.

    I give employees (or gave, when I had them) raises of 10% per year, if they did a good job. You know where that paid leave money would come from? The 10% raise that I normally would have given them will now be 4% or maybe 3%.

    I lose production when an employee isn't at work making the company money. Libbies seem to think that a company can just sh*t money to pay for this stuff. No one stops to think who it's REALLY hurting.

    Paid leave is just an employer-fed savings account. The employee ultimately pays for it. You who think otherwise are foolish.
    Here is my unofficial and unscientific count of who is posting relatively recent topics that were ultimately closed. Please note, several threads have been deleted from the board, so the numbers may be a bit off. One could reasonably assume that it's possible that one or more of the deleted topics may have been posted by some of the same members that have made this list.

    Who has posted sensitive topics that have been closed recently?

    T.L --> 8 topics closed

    Joe M. --> 4 topics closed

    Tim --> 3 topics closed

    Discrat --> 2 topics closed

    Steve J --> 2 topics closed

    A few members have had 1 topic closed and Kay falls into that group.

    I will note that the ForumGuru has none closed, and since some of you may be wondering about seasoned, his total is also zero. Obviously the top posters on this list are creating a few topics that are riling up other members (and themselves sometimes).

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author alistair
    It's pretty sad when schools have to have security guards, but I'm guessing that's just the norm over there?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by alistair View Post

      It's pretty sad when schools have to have security guards, but I'm guessing that's just the norm over there?
      Yes, it is sad. When I was a kid, they didn't lock up the schools during the day like they do now ... and now we've got teachers and professors carrying concealed weapons and shooting themselves accidentally. One recently, a lady teacher shot herself in the leg and is in serious condition and a professor had a gun in his pocket that went off and shot himself in the foot.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Yes, it is sad. When I was a kid, they didn't lock up the schools during the day like they do now ... and now we've got teachers and professors carrying concealed weapons and shooting themselves accidentally. One recently, a lady teacher shot herself in the leg and is in serious condition and a professor had a gun in his pocket that went off and shot himself in the foot.
        They should get a proper holster, LEARN to use it, and keep the safety on!!!!!!!! The number of accidents would then go down virtually to ZERO! SERIOUSLY, you DON'T just put a gun in a pocket, etc... And holsters are FANCY these days! They have ones that go in pockets. WHY? Because they align the gun so a lot of potential accidents won't happen, etc...

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    We are really in danger now, so while i usually want to just strangle anything 'politically correct' -- as ever, that was my first (knee-jerk) reaction (toooo), BUT

    It is true what Suzanne says about "erring on the side of caution". abso-frickin-lutely; dude. i guess it is less serious that this happened, rather than that something horrible actually happened and then it's the hind site discussion, woulda/shoulda/coulda.

    So people need to move on and thank GOD that was the worst thing that happened there yesterday. It is forgivable no matter whose panties are upwadding!

    amen.

    ('praise the Lord and pass the ammunition')

    Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

    A baboon can buy a military uniform. So can a serial killer. Having one proves nothing about a person, including whether or not they are actually in the armed forces. Security guards are there to protect children ... not to be politically correct. I'd prefer a guard acting on behalf of my children err on the side of caution rather than taking a situation at face value and regretting it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      A baboon can buy a military uniform.
      True - but he's unlikely to have a military ID in his pocket.

      The story wasn't about a man trying to enter the school - I'd have no problem with that. It was about being turned away BECAUSE of the uniform - told to go home and change. What is unclear is what the guard would have done had a person been wearing a clerical collar, a cop uniform, hospital scrubs, etc.

      Procedure should be identification and checking with the school office if there is question about entry. So many times after a school incident we learn there were procedures that weren't followed or "aren't always followed" or "are not strictly enforced".
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Don,

        The fact that someone's threads might get closed more often than others' could as easily be the result of people responding in negative ways based on preconceptions, or dragging irrelevant issues into them. Your numbers are meaningless without context.
        I will note that the ForumGuru has none closed
        You don't start threads often, so it's not a valid comparison. You are, however, the only person I've banned for political excesses here in a long time.

        So, there's that.

        We have a few people who regularly report any threads that start getting hostile or partisan. We have a bunch of people who participate in those discussions and never report any of it unless someone resorts to extreme insults or profanity. Those are reasonable and consistent positions.

        Then there's you.

        You are the only person in this section who consistently reports posts that you believe come from a political slant opposed to yours and thanks the posts that agree with you.

        Something to consider.
        since some of you may be wondering about seasoned, his total is also zero.
        Again, he usually doesn't start threads. I can tell you, though, that Steve's derailments have historically been one of the biggest reasons for thread closure in this section.


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        • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Don,

          The fact that someone's threads might get closed more often than others' could as easily be the result of people responding in negative ways based on preconceptions, or dragging irrelevant issues into them. Your numbers are meaningless without context.You don't start threads often, so it's not a valid comparison. You are, however, the only person I've banned for political excesses here in a long time.

          Without a doubt it's quite obvious that you have been overlooking or giving a pass to several users that get excessive political and/or personal. The context is quite easy to figure out...the posting of threads that easily turn political, anti-country, racial etc. I can link threads and give you some context if you'd like. You should have banned a couple of other members over the past few months, but you have failed to do so and that's on you, not me. Your idea of fairness is not always perfect, Paul, whether you think so or not. I believe you said you would ban people for closing threads intentionally --> so maybe you should start doing that as Tim just admitted to doing so. Many people here get way, way out of line but for some reason those people are not banned.

          So, there's that.

          Yeah, so there's that. The proof is in the threads.

          We have a few people who regularly report any threads that start getting hostile or partisan.

          Yeah, I'm one of those.

          We have a bunch of people who participate in those discussions and never report any of it unless someone resorts to extreme insults or profanity. Those are reasonable and consistent positions.

          Yeah, and then we have those people that try to turn things political at almost every turn...just like Tim did on this one.

          Then there's you.

          You are the only person in this section who consistently reports posts that you believe come from a political slant opposed to yours and thanks the posts that agree with you.

          That's your opinion and it's pure unadulterated BS. They do come from a political slant and many of those threads have been deleted or closed, in-fact the majority of them have been closed or deleted.. It's clear, we do not agree on this subject so let it go.

          Something to consider.Again, he usually doesn't start threads. I can tell you, though, that Steve's derailments have historically been one of the biggest reasons for thread closure in this section.

          Well then ban him if what you say is true.
          Facts are facts and the facts are easily read on the threads for those that choose to read them. You can post all the opinion you want you post but just because you post your opinion does not mean it's true. These guys are big boys so they don't need you to come to their aid, do they? Maybe they do....some of them get to purely political, call names, throw down personal attacks and then you ban the person they are attacking personally. Been there, done that.

          I think you have not spent much time in this forum for the past few months and you are losing touch with reality. Yeah, that's my opinion but I think it's dead on.

          Cheers

          -don
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

            Facts are facts and the facts are easily read on the threads for those that choose to read them. You can post all the opinion you want you post but just because you post your opinion does not mean it's true.

            I think you have not spent much time in this forum for the past few months and you are losing touch with reality. Yeah, that's my opinion but I think it's dead on.

            Cheers

            -don
            Wow, Don!

            Paul lose touch with reality? I beg to differ. Paul so many times is the voice of reason and most certainly has his feet planted firmly on the ground.

            Yes, that was your opinion, but I think you aim was high and to the left rather than being dead on.

            And that is my viewpoint, my opinion.


            Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Don,

            Asking to get a thread closed that you started, or even just asking the mods to close a thread, is nothing like what I was talking about. And you know it.

            I'm not going to play your little back and forth game, Don. I no longer have any obligation to deal with your obsessive need to "win," which is a thing for which I am profoundly grateful.
            I think you have not spent much time in this forum for the past few months
            You are mistaken. Inactivity does not equal absence.


            Paul

            Edited to add: I spend as much time in this section of the forum as ever. Not much in most other sections, so Don's comment is true in a literal sense but not in a relevant one.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Maybe that's why I reacted strongly - my own son often stopped in at his son's school to have lunch with or see him when he had to fly out - and he was in uniform because he was going to or coming from the air field. No one thought anything of it.
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            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
              Banned
              @ Terra

              I hear you, but Paul and I have had our differences in the past. I have told him he is one of the best mods on the forum, and he is, but that does not discount the fact that he and I don't see eye to eye on a few things, and I believe he slants his opinion once in a while. Paul and I have communicated via hundreds of PMs on many sorts of issues, and yeah, we have had a few knock down drag outs, unfortunately. Plenty of wasted time for sure, but at least Paul was attentive when you reported pirates and banned users, much more attentive then this Freelancer staff is.

              @Paul

              What a laugh! Tim did not ask to have the thread closed. He posted one of the longest personal attacks on 4 or 5 members of this forum that has ever been posted. He named the members one by one and went after them. Guess how many liberals he went after? Yeah, that's right. That IS NOT the same as asking to have a thread closed...FAR from it. In-fact inferring as much is a giant laugh. The guy had a total meltdown and broke a few forum rules and got away with it.

              That post was incredibly hostile. personal, and partisan....I will be glad to link a screenshot of it here if you like. The dude not only went after a handful of members personally, he was calling Bush and Cheney war criminals, telling multiple lies etc. etc. A giant double whammy as you told him he could not post stuff like that, and you said you would do something about people that blow up a threads because the discussion does not go their way.

              You can't start a discussion on a topic, post dozens of times on one side of an argument, and then once you start losing the argument post a vile personal attack to get the thread closed. Good grief.

              That's the EXACT behavior that should get a member banned. It's sorta par for the course though, an old time member crosses the line, does exactly what you say can't be done, and then does not get punished for it.

              I know....it's often the SOP.

              Cheers

              -don
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                @ Terra

                I hear you, but Paul and I have had our differences in the past. I have told him he is one of the best mods on the forum, and he is, but that does not discount the fact that he and I don't see eye to eye on a few things, and I believe he slants his opinion once in a while. Paul and I have communicated via hundreds of PMs on many sorts of issues, and yeah, we have had a few knock down drag outs, unfortunately. Plenty of wasted time for sure, but at least Paul was attentive when you reported pirates and banned users, much more attentive then this Freelancer staff is.

                Cheers

                -don

                Yeah, I'm beginning to think that they don't appreciate the fun, whimsical and creative way I report spammers and link droppers to offer a little smile in the middle of a mundane and thankless job, the way that Paul appreciated them.

                Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Then there's you.

          You are the only person in this section who consistently reports posts that you believe come from a political slant opposed to yours and thanks the posts that agree with you.

          Yes, the hypocrisy is stunning. Has anyone else noted the irony of him listing the threads that have been closed and realizing he is the main guy who is reporting these threads to get them closed? Lol I'm not sure, but I would bet he reported at least one of those listed. Unbelievable.

          Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

          Paul and I have communicated via hundreds of PMs on many sorts of issues, and yeah, we have had a few knock down drag outs, unfortunately. Plenty of wasted time for sure,
          Good lord! I feel for you Paul! Lol.


          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          How ridiculous that a thread about some guy getting turned away because of a uniform turns into another I hate TimP and why didn't you ban him and he's your favorite "lib" and I'm not happy about the moderation here yada yada yada thread. [sigh]
          Yep. That's why I used the word contaminate to describe what he did in that other thread. Who wants to have a serious discussion with someone like this? I don't. In that thread he keeps mentioning, I said in my last post that I thought he was trying to get it closed with his ridiculous bombastic posts.

          "Looks like a few people don't want to discuss this subject like adults and perhaps their main aim is to shut down the thread? ( In Don's case I believe so. He's real good at going off the deep end and getting threads closed or deleted. Quite a talent there Don... )"

          Now that I know that he actually is the main one reporting these posts I am sure that was his intention.

          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post


          P.S. For the record, outside of 5 AM SPAM, I have never reported any post by anyone.
          Me either Frank. And I especially don't report threads and posts about political subjects for some members and then thank other members who make political posts that I agree with.
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          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

            Me either Frank. And I especially don't report threads and posts about political subjects for some members and then thank other members who make political posts that I agree with.
            There's one other thing that I find completely laughable. When I had one of my first negative encounters, here, more than one nice person politely wrote me and said that I should be careful as there was a subset of members that felt a visceral need to control what takes place here and just which members should be allowed to actively participate. I said thanks and discounted their suggestion as not being plausible, at all. I mean, that's just 3rd grade stuff. Right??? lol

            Lo and behold, after a few more run-ins, I'll be damned if all of my latest posts became instant thread-stoppers, regardless of how innocuous the comment. So I learned that what I had been warned about was a reality.

            Now, the only problem with that, for those involved. was their inability to realize that when I post, it's generally for my own amusement with little forethought of how others regard my drivel, or if they would even read it at all. It's a by-product of having way too much time on my hands.

            Additionally, since I am capable of being as infantile as anyone else here, ignoring me only encourages me to post more crap.

            I think the most telling thing of all is that when people make posts demeaning to America that they are never called out on that. It seems to be left up to me to get in their face. I mean, what's up with that? I gave the best 3 years of my life to defend America and the principles on which it was founded. Let someone else take over - please! So I was only able to deduce two possible explanations for the deafening silence from everyone else. Either they shared the views put forth, or they were simply fearful of the individuals spouting such garbage and decided to just keep their head down. Either way, kinda sad. Of course, after spending a bit more time here I have come to grasp the possibility of a third reason and that is that they were so used to reading the claptrap from those clowns that they had learned to just simply ignore it, since getting in their face would simply mean lowering themselves to someone else's level. I get that, now.

            Over the years I have discovered that the number of people people who truly hate America are few and far between. Most people who espouse such views are simply frustrated, scared and totally devoid of the intellect required to express themselves in a rational, cogent manner, so they just parrot the talking points without actually having the knowledge to know what they are talking about.

            The other subset, the ones that are cowed by the overbearing personalities that all forums are rife with, well, those are just tragic souls who subscribe to an entirely different type of fear, but they are still cowards, all the same. Why anyone here would be fearful of any of the mahoffs, I find baffling and troubling.

            Since I have never made a post that has been profound enough to stop an entire group of people in their posting tracks, I must apologize to those who made a honest attempt to forewarn me about the subversive nature of some of the people that frequent the forum. "I'm very sorry for doubting your word." :-)

            Cheers. - Frank
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              Either way, kinda sad. Of course, after spending a bit more time here I have come to grasp the possibility of a third reason and that is that they were so used to reading the claptrap from those clowns that they had learned to just simply ignore it, since getting in their face would simply mean lowering themselves to someone else's level. I get that, now.
              Yep. I know who you talking about. One of them I ignore now as much as possible, although I haven't ever resorted to using the "ignore button" wherever that is located. This was after getting into way too many long arguments with this guy, so yes, I just try to ignore him now. Another one who continually talks about how terrible this country is and has been talking about leaving it for a couple years at least, I finally asked him a few months back why he hasn't left yet and where exactly was he going where things are so perfect. :/ This country has a lot of problems but I still love it and don't want to live anywhere else.

              By the way, one of the real problems this country has is how it treats it's soldiers when they get home. What bothers me is that so many veterans are homeless, are unemployed and so many commit suicide. Don complains that I haven't commented on this story about the army officer not being allowed into a school, but I did. I think it's a non story really when compared to very serious real issues facing veterans. And thank you for your service Frank!
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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                What bothers me is that so many veterans are homeless, are unemployed and so many commit suicide. Don complains that I haven't commented on this story about the army officer not being allowed into a school, but I did. I think it's a non story really when compared to very serious real issues facing veterans.
                The thing is, Tim, this thread is about an Army officer not being allowed into his daughter's school. I am a veteran, my sister is a veteran, my father was a veteran and I appreciate your concern for veterans.

                Frank and I may disagree on this but I think not allowing an Army officer into his daughter's school in uniform is a bit of a problem. A big one? Maybe not, but the OP decided to post the topic and obviously many people have voiced their opinion on this.

                Is the problem anywhere near as severe as the care and employment needed for veterans? Nope. Is this topic abut the care and employment needed for veterans? Nope.

                Is it a problem when a military officer is not allowed inside his daughter's school in uniform when the school system has no policy against it? Yep. Did the district super admit that a mistake was made? Yep. Did you comment on the actual event? Nope. Did you take a few partisan swipes instead of commenting on actions of the school? Yep. Is this your norm? I think so.

                Cheers

                -don
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            • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
              Banned
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              I think the most telling thing of all is that when people make posts demeaning to America that they are never called out on that. It seems to be left up to me to get in their face. I mean, what's up with that? I gave the best 3 years of my life to defend America and the principles on which it was founded. Let someone else take over - please! So I was only able to deduce two possible explanations for the deafening silence from everyone else. Either they shared the views put forth, or they were simply fearful of the individuals spouting such garbage and decided to just keep their head down. Either way, kinda sad. Of course, after spending a bit more time here I have come to grasp the possibility of a third reason and that is that they were so used to reading the claptrap from those clowns that they had learned to just simply ignore it, since getting in their face would simply mean lowering themselves to someone else's level. I get that, now.

              Cheers. - Frank
              Hi Frank,

              I must disagree with your statement that nobody but you defends America on here. The fact is the term "everyone else" is not quite accurate, as I and a few others do defend our great country on this forum. Yeah, maybe many of the members here don't, but some of us do.

              While I did not serve in a terribly rough combat zone like you did, I did serve proudly, and I am a longtime member and supporter of the American Legion. My pops served in WWII, and my uncle "earned" 2 purple hearts fighting for this great country, and we were lucky to get him back alive.

              In-fact I have an American flag on my wall that has flown over the US Capitol in honor of the sailors that served at Farragut Naval Station during WWII and it's the very first thing you see when you enter my home via the front door.

              While you and I disagree on many things, I think this is a topic we don't disagree very often.

              One last thing....I never did answer that cichlid cross-breeding question you asked, yup, just like with most other species --> breeders that are creating hybrids are generally frowned upon. But some African Cichlid breeders go against the grain on this, and In-fact one of the more popular African Cichlids is the O.B. Peacock and it's is a man-made hybrid.

              I bred a lot of the OB peacocks, and had some of the finest OB's in he Midwest and beyond. Here is a shorty on hybrids and OB's.

              The OB Peacock

              I never caught any flack from other breeders, and my customers loved my fish, so all was good in my experience.

              Cheers

              -don
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                Hi Frank,

                I must disagree with your statement that nobody but you defends America on here. The fact is the term "everyone else" is not quite accurate, as I and a few others do defend our great country on this forum. Yeah, maybe many of the members here don't, but some of us do.
                I do humbly stand corrected. Lazy posting on my part. I hate 'blanket terms,' especially when I use them myself. Let''s just say, though, that I do tend to be the most vociferous but that's simply because as my only idol in life, Ralph Kramden would say - "I GOT A BIIIIIG MOUTH!!!"
                While I did not serve in a terribly rough combat zone like you did, I did serve proudly, and I am a longtime member and supporter of the American Legion. My pops served in WWII, and my uncle "earned" 2 purple hearts fighting for this great country, and we were lucky to get him back alive.
                Luck of the draw. I deserve no special recognition for where I wound up and when. I know it appears that I sometimes seem to be fishing for recognition, but that's not the genesis for some of my comments that look that way. It's more to illustrate that I actually DO feel entitled to run my mouth since I truly have 'earned the right' rather than just being born with it because I live in the USA. Nothing more than that. :-)
                Your service and that of your family are duly noted and appreciated. "Welcome, home."
                In-fact I have an American flag on my wall that has flown over the US Capitol in honor of the sailors that served at Farragut Naval Station during WWII and it's the very first thing you see when you enter my home via the front door.
                While you and I disagree on many things, I think this is a topic we don't disagree very often.
                I'm sure of that. Trust me when I tell you that I have friends that I served with that I don't agree with hardly anything they believe. They are still my friends, as misguided as they may be.
                One last thing....I never did answer that cichlid cross-breeding question you asked, yup, just like with most other species --> breeders that are creating hybrids are generally frowned upon. But some African Cichlid breeders go against the grain on this, and In-fact one of the more popular African Cichlids is the O.B. Peacock and it's is a man-made hybrid.
                Understood - but I'm afraid that is a topic we will continue to disagree over. That said, it's not as bad with cichlids as most Cory enthusiasts would consider it. With Corys, their liklihood to hybridize in the wild is extremely rare. To say that it is something that is truly frowned upon in the Cory world would be a major understatement - but it is done. The main goal is to produce long fins. I will now publicly admit to breeding one of the most mutant varieties of Cory ever produced in the hobby. That was when I was new to keeping the species, thought I was terribly cool and was able to sell a $1 fish in it's normal state for upwards of $20. Greed makes us do bad things. It took one of the preeminent experts in the hobby to inform me as to what an incredible douch I was and to convince me to knock it off. Now that I look back on doing that, I do feel shame and can now appreciate how incredibly ugly this poor, defornmed fish actually is. lol

                I apologize if the photo is a repeat:



                I bred a lot of the OBs, and has some of the finest OB's in he Midwest and beyond. Here is a shorty on hybrids andoB.

                The OB Peacock
                Very, pretty. :-)
                I never caught any flack from other breeders, and my customers loved my fish, so all was good in my experience.
                Well, you didn't live in my world. I got reamed. lol

                Cheers. - Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                  Understood - but I'm afraid that is a topic we will continue to disagree over. That said, it's not as bad with cichlids as most Cory enthusiasts would consider it.
                  Many in the African cichlid community do get quite anal, but the fish stores, breeders and customers I worked with loved my lines so all was good in my small part of the world.

                  With Corys, their liklihood to hybridize in the wild is extremely rare. To say that it is something that is truly frowned upon in the Cory world would be a major understatement - but it is done.
                  Yeah, Corys are quite a bit different in that regard. Lake Malawi cichlids are known to hybridize in nature, and that single lake is filled with over 1,000 species of cichlids. That's a lot of different species of cichlids, to say the least.

                  The main goal is to produce long fins.
                  With Africans cichlids it's generally the colors that are you shooting for. But, as I will show you below, I did get into producing some very dark gold OB's that had some beautiful "extra" finnage.

                  I will now publicly admit to breeding one of the most mutant varieties of Cory ever produced in the hobby.
                  Whoaa.... I am having a hard time believing you admitted it. I don't know if you want public congrats but you get them from me.

                  That was when I was new to keeping the species, thought I was terribly cool and was able to sell a $1 fish in it's normal state for upwards of $20.
                  Very nice, the OB's below I would sell for $19-29 wholesale and $29-$39 retail. Nothing spectacular, but good weekend pops. These 3 to 4 inch long mouthbrooders would deliver 35-55 viable fish per brood if I was doing my job well. Generally speaking, I would keep 3 or 4 top males and 6-10 females of this species to do the dirty work for me.

                  Greed makes us do bad things. It took one of the preeminent experts in the hobby to inform me as to what an incredible douch I was and to convince me to knock it off.
                  Hahaha. I know where you are coming from...

                  Now that I look back on doing that, I do feel shame and can now appreciate how incredibly ugly this poor, defornmed fish actually is. lol
                  A very nice photo and the fins are pretty incredible.

                  Well, you didn't live in my world. I got reamed. lol
                  I hear you, believe me I do.

                  My OB's drew praise because I could produce a richer gold color than most (OB's are usually more yellowish) and I could still get a nice metallic blue on the males. I apologize for the lowish qualtiy of the pix below...they are circa 2002 and overly compressed at that.

                  Here is one of my the extra rich golds with extra finnage. Those fins are probably 15-30% larger than normal. Not a ton extra, but definitely enough to notice.



                  Here is one of my males with a nice metallic sheen and some of that rich gold behind the gill, but with no extra finnage.



                  I finally have started breeding a few fish again, but I only have maybe 20 adults and 50 fry on hand at the moment. It's a complete restart for me, but it's about time I got the operation going again. However it's gonna be a very slow start since I have sold off all of my lines, tanks and gear. I use to have a stocking level of somewhere near 1500, so this will obviously be just a hobby for a while.

                  Cheers

                  -don
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        True - but he's unlikely to have a military ID in his pocket.

        The story wasn't about a man trying to enter the school - I'd have no problem with that. It was about being turned away BECAUSE of the uniform - told to go home and change. What is unclear is what the guard would have done had a person been wearing a clerical collar, a cop uniform, hospital scrubs, etc.

        Procedure should be identification and checking with the school office if there is question about entry. So many times after a school incident we learn there were procedures that weren't followed or "aren't always followed" or "are not strictly enforced".
        Thus far, we haven't had hospital personnel or clerical staff shooting up kids in schools. You can't say the same thing about guys in camo/military gear. There was one clue to the thoughts that the guard had ... he was worried about the special needs kids freaking out. It's all about perception and right now, people looking all military, and like they could be armed at a school just isn't a great idea.

        Whether or not the special needs kids would have freaked out, whether or not he misunderstood the policies of the school or whether or not the school communicated those policies poorly ... whatever happened really isn't much of a big deal and I really doubt that the guard meant disrespect to the military. I also really doubt that anyone needs to lose a job over it. Ordinary day with a little kerfuffle and a big deal made of it by media and readers. I imagine with all the public and private apologies, the father is just fine with it.

        I wonder why a man who has probably spent too much time away from home and practically has had to live in camo can't just loosen up and wear normal clothes to a meeting at school. Of course he doesn't have to, but why not?
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        • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I wonder why a man who has probably spent too much time away from home and practically has had to live in camo can't just loosen up and wear normal clothes to a meeting at school. Of course he doesn't have to, but why not?
          This man serves our country. He serves us. He should be able to proudly wear his uniform anywhere he chooses to in this country. And we should be proud when we see him.
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          • Profile picture of the author fin
            Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

            This man serves our country. He serves us. He should be able to proudly wear his uniform anywhere he chooses to in this country. And we should be proud when we see him.
            Americans actually have it quite lucky when it comes to the military as the country is very proud of them.

            When I was in UK military we were banned from wearing our uniforms outside of base in case we got attacked.

            You also won't get into certain places if people know you're military.

            Every guy in town wants to kill you because they thing you're stealing their women.
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        • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        True - but he's unlikely to have a military ID in his pocket.

        The story wasn't about a man trying to enter the school - I'd have no problem with that. It was about being turned away BECAUSE of the uniform - told to go home and change. What is unclear is what the guard would have done had a person been wearing a clerical collar, a cop uniform, hospital scrubs, etc.

        Procedure should be identification and checking with the school office if there is question about entry. So many times after a school incident we learn there were procedures that weren't followed or "aren't always followed" or "are not strictly enforced".
        ALSO, it could be argued to be, and may SPECIFICALLY BE, a felony. That reduces the chance, and also gives a potential punishment. If worse comes to worse, they can do what companies like microsoft have been doing for over a DECADE! They can simply have an ID(that they should ALREADY HAVE), that you can type in to identify the person. THAT would make it virtually IMPOSSIBLE to impersonate a government person. They could EVEN assign an ID to those that should go on, on a special network, and you can enter a secondary ID, such as a drivers license number, and it could give family info, or the last 4 of their social security numbers. So the school could validate that they are in the military, have kids there, and are allowed to pick up the kids.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Suzanne,
    Of course he doesn't have to, but why not?
    He might have been coming directly from work. Since he had entered the school in uniform previously without issue, he wouldn't have had any reason to expect this day to be any different.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Suzanne,He might have been coming directly from work. Since he had entered the school in uniform previously without issue, he wouldn't have had any reason to expect this day to be any different.

      Paul
      True ... he could have come directly from work. Didn't think about that, but I didn't read in the article that he had been to the school previously in uniform. At any rate, I doubt he'll have that problem again.
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    I once got stopped from entering a nightclub because I have tattoos.

    Didn't run away and call the newspapers.

    Some people really need to grow a pair and stop complaining about the stupidest of things (not taking about the OP ).

    It seems like when someone is wronged they run away to the newspapers for some strange reason and it's just as bad in the UK.

    Who the f**k cares if there is a caterpillar in your Big Mac? You probably put it there yourself for the publicity and free food for a year.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Suzanne,

    The part about his having been admitted in uniform previously was, I believe, in the second linked article on it.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Lol @ the $945 prepper ad at the bottom of the article milking the link bait traffic.
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Don,
      I know....it's just SOP.
      If it was reported, it's entirely possible that one of the newer mods caught the report and doesn't believe that's an area s/he should act on. At least one of them leans toward a looser rein on such things.

      The only reason I responded to your comments is that they were a result of my remark to Tim. I didn't see the post to which you're referring, so ranting at me about it is pointless. If it was reported, an active mod looked at it and made a decision.

      If you disagree with the current handling of such things, Alaister is the one you need to talk with. Not me.

      For the record, there is no "standard operating procedure" at the moment.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Don,If it was reported, it's entirely possible that one of the newer mods caught the report and doesn't believe that's an area s/he should act on. At least one of them leans toward a looser rein on such things.

        The only reason I responded to your comments is that they were a result of my remark to Tim. I didn't see the post to which you're referring, so ranting at me about it is pointless. If it was reported, an active mod looked at it and made a decision. You said peeps will be banned if they close threads intentionally and that's exactly what he did.

        If you disagree with the current handling of such things, Alaister is the one you need to talk with. Not me.

        For the record, there is no "standard operating procedure" at the moment.

        Paul
        Tim never did answer your second question, and he admitted to closing a thread intentionally with a rant...that's as clear as a bell. I can dig up the screenshot of his post and PM it to you but it's irrelevant as he publicly admitted to blowing up to intentionally to close the thread down. You clearly stated --> blow a thread up to intentionally close it and you will be quickly banned.

        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        I just said "F@#$ it" and posted something I knew would get it closed.


        You yourself admitted to not moderating as much lately, except in the JV section.

        Reporting things to to Alaister can be fairly futile most of the time...it takes him a couple of weeks to close down threads selling cookie stuffers, a couple weeks to close theme stealing threads, almost a week to take care of false advertising on a banner ad.

        I have yet to see him get to some threads that advertise piracy (clear piracy, where the item has been removed from other websites where it was for sale, and the owner of the material has reported it), he does not seem to care that many of the deals in the WSO section are not special offers (they are the same offer and/or buy button that are on the vendors website), and it takes a week and a several reports to ban already banned users that in the past have sold WF member email address scrapers. In-fact both you and I report that guy, what, a week or more ago? In-fact I don't think the EG WSO was removed until shortly after my 4th report...just a couple of days ago.

        The search by user function has not worked even close properly for months and even though he is not rewriting the search code himself, I doubt very much that Alaister will be very responsive to many off-topic issues . I am not dumping on the guy, but the things I mentioned above used to be taken care within hours or a couple of days. Not so much anymore... Evidently the 16 mods or whatever don't have a lot of power, or policy has changed for the worse around here.

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Don,

          You still don't get it, do you? If I were still actively moderating, what you're saying might be applicable. I am not. The new team is answerable to Alaister and his policies, not the way I handled things.

          If you don't like it, take it up with them.
          You yourself admitted to not moderating as much lately, except in the JV section.
          "Admitted?"

          Stated. And that is very different from reading or participating. The fact that I don't get in someone's face every time they decide to be a politidick doesn't mean I'm not here.
          Reporting things to to Alaister can be fairly futile most of the time...
          Allen didn't handle a lot of direct reports, either.

          Same statement applies: Take it up with them. Not me.
          Evidently the 16 mods or whatever don't have a lot of power, or policy has changed for the worse around here.
          You miss the real issues, as often happens when you leap to tall conclusions in the dark.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            The fact that I don't get in someone's face every time they decide to be a politidick doesn't mean I'm not here.
            Thaaaat's a keeper.
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post

              Thaaaat's a keeper.
              It made me chuckle too, but being female, I thought it best to pass on commenting on it. Especially with a Riffle running rampant in these parts.


              Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Don,

            You still don't get it, do you? If I were still actively moderating, what you're saying might be applicable. I am not. The new team is answerable to Alaister and his policies, not the way I handled things.

            What a laugh. You won't stand by your word and ban him, instead you will jump in on his behalf to defend him. So you don't have the power to ban users like you said you would for intentionally closing threads?

            "Admitted?"

            Stated. And that is very different from reading or participating. The fact that I don't get in someone's face every time they decide to be a politidick doesn't mean I'm not here.

            Another laugh, you question Tim, let him get away without answering you, then he says he blew up a thread intentionally and you say nothing to him and do nothing --> instead you try to attack my posts. As I stated before --> SOP.

            Allen didn't handle a lot of direct reports, either.

            No kidding? Good grief.... Why did you skip past the part where I said the new mods must have little power?

            Same statement applies: Take it up with them. Not me.You miss the real issues, as often happens when you leap to tall conclusions in the dark.

            You seem to be the one in the dark here, trying to jump on me, instead of the guy that got political on here which is the same guy that admitted to blowing up a thread intentionally. Got it, SOP.

            Paul
            I have been taking things up with the Big A, via PM, via the support desk, via the red triangle, via threads he is active on etc. etc. Like I said, the responsiveness to serious reports has gone downhill fast. When I speak of Alaister it should have been obvious to a man of your intelligence and stature that I am speaking of Alaister and his team in many instances. Ultimately he is responsible for the actions (and inaction) of his team.

            For not being an active mod anymore you sure seem to be trying to play one on this thread, rather unfairly I may add. So what you are trying to say is you have no ban power anymore? You can't ban anyone? You can't have anyone banned?

            Cheers

            -don
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Don,
              What a laugh. You won't stand by your word and ban him.
              Ah. The old "macho challenge." Wondered how long that would take.

              Just to be clear, though... Do you really doubt that I would have done what I said at the time you claimed to have those examples and I asked for pointers?

              I am no longer certain of the owner's policies or direction in regard to that sort of circumstance, or many others for that matter. Because of that, I am consciously avoiding messing with their systems for handling things. If you find that inappropriate, you're welcome to that opinion. You aren't the one responsible for the consequences of those decisions.

              I am also not going to jump just because you waved a finger at my male ego. Especially when you're doing it to serve a vindictive purpose.

              By the way. Tim did answer me. The fact that you missed it doesn't mean it wasn't there.
              For not being an active mod anymore you sure seem to be trying to play one on this thread
              What?

              I expressed opinions and mentioned related facts. Do you care to assert that I am not allowed to do that as a member here, or that it's less appropriate for me to do so than for someone else?
              So what you are trying to say is you have no ban power anymore?
              "Power." You fail to understand the function of moderation, still.

              Yes, Don, I can. The fact that you CAN do a thing does not mean that you SHOULD.


              Paul
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              Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                The article from The Blaze has been shared 12,000 times in just a couple days. :/ Has anyone read some of the comments at that site? Of course they are making this political and blaming you know who.
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Tim,
                And this is surprising? There are people who are so obsessed with looking for villains (usually the same one, all the time) that they're incapable of looking at situations objectively. Or even rationally.

                I'm curious. Other than to give the easily distracted among us an excuse to turn this thread political, what purpose was served by introducing that comment?
                Paul
                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                Not surprising at all. That's my point. The comments there and the way the article was written can certainly get people riled up more than they need to be. An article like that is meant to do exactly that and this one apparently succeeded with so many shares so quickly.
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Don,Ah. The old "macho challenge." Wondered how long that would take.

                Just to be clear, though... Do you really doubt that I would have done what I said at the time you claimed to have those examples and I asked for pointers?

                I am no longer certain of the owner's policies or direction in regard to that sort of circumstance, or many others for that matter. Because of that, I am consciously avoiding messing with their systems for handling things. If you find that inappropriate, you're welcome to that opinion. You aren't the one responsible for the consequences of those decisions.

                I am also not going to jump just because you waved a finger at my male ego. Especially when you're doing it to serve a vindictive purpose.

                By the way. Tim did answer me. The fact that you missed it doesn't mean it wasn't there.What?

                I expressed opinions and mentioned related facts. Do you care to assert that I am not allowed to do that as a member here, or that it's less appropriate for me to do so than for someone else?"Power." You fail to understand the function of moderation, still.

                Yes, Don, I can. The fact that you CAN do a thing does not mean that you SHOULD.


                Paul
                #1) Obviously you are showing your bias here and NOT standing by your word. I knew you would not ban one of your favorite libs when they broke the rules. SOP these days. You may have banned them in the past, but it appears as if the past is ancient history.

                #2) Tim's answer was non-responsive to your second question. I did not miss anything, it appears as if you did.

                #3) You should not ban him because of me, you should ban him because it's what you said you would do when someone intentionally blows up a thread to shut it down. He admitted to it and that's that.

                #4) I reported to you a member that admitted to blowing up a thread just to have it shut down and you failed to act. It's not a one day rule, or are the things you say only valid for one day? Rules are rules you would think...I know, you don't want to ban him so you are not going to ban him.

                #5) I understand moderation perfectly well and you are not the only guy on earth that knows how to moderate. I used to moderate forums as far back as 1996. While it may not be as long as you have been moderating, I damn sure know how it's done fairly and I have hired and fired mods in both art and political communities. Fairness was a priority with me, and when I said I would do something, I did it.

                You may think you are the greatest mod on earth but it's obvious you make mistakes just like us WF mortals do.

                Tim did not give you a responsive answer, in-fact he gave you another politically biased response. He has yet to comment on the subject of the article, he instead has commented on the website the article ran on, the people that commented on the article, his perception of intent of the people that commented on that article, his perceived opposition to the president the article and commentators had, his perception of the intent of the publisher etc. etc. All of that could be called political bias. He never did answer the question you posed which was "Other than to give the easily distracted among us an excuse to turn this thread political, what purpose was served by introducing that comment?"

                So his purpose of the comment was? His intentions on his reply to you were?

                Yeah, that's right...to take an other political shot that he will get away with because he knows he always gets away with his partisan political shots.

                SOP....

                I thought you were serious when you said you would ban people for closing down threads intentionally with flames and rants. Obviously you are not sticking to your word on this one.

                Such is life...some get away with whatever they want to, others not so much. If you consider the answer he gave on your second question to be responsive (and/or adequate) then you must be as biased as he is.

                Like I said before, some here like to make politically provocative threads and those folks are the ones that rile up the community. Intentional or not, it's a fact. The same people and some others on here like to turn as many threads as they can political, or make some BS political inference whenever they think they can get away with it. This is an undeniable fact. I don't care who does what on the thread after the fact...someone intentionally says something they should know will turn political, and those are the people that are instigating the political discussion. If a member does realize that threads (and posts) on the economy, guns and race may turn political then I would say they may be a tad bit ignorant or naive. Obviously these can be highly political topics no matter what side of the fence you plant yourself on. A perfect example of that is this thread right here. Tim did not comment on the Army Colonel being disallowed at his daughter's school, he instead took a shot at the article, the readers, the website etc. etc.

                Like I have said many times before...several people in here have a very hard time taking off their politically biased glasses, and a few of those people like to make comments and start topics that they think can help them push their biases and agendas.

                Cheers

                -don
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Geesh closing threads down and reporting Posts.....I never thought people did those things. At least to the extent I am hearing ( btw, not directing this at anyone necessarily)

              People really get all that pissed off to take time and try to shut threads down by reporting stuff ?

              Funny, I have been here going on 7 years and I never thought to report anyone. Not once.

              Life in these Forums is not that crucial in my Life
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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                Geesh closing threads down and reporting Posts.....I never thought people did those things. At least to the extent I am hearing ( btw, not directing this at anyone necessarily)

                People really get all that pissed off to take time and try to shut threads down by reporting stuff ?

                Funny, I have been here going on 7 years and I never thought to report anyone. Not once.

                Life in these Forums is not that crucial in my Life
                You just witnessed one guy admit to firebombing his own thread to have it closed when the discussion did not go his way.

                You have never caught one image, video, or content pirate? I have caught many that were closed down and/or removed from the forum. You have never reported a bogus WSO? You have never reported sig spammers? You never report self promos?

                Several threads I have reported in this section that were deleted were anti-Russia, anti-Obama, anti-America, anti-Bush, racist, etc. etc. Some topics that are posted are completely out-of-line and must be reported.

                Obviously many others report because threads were getting closed long before I started posting to this forum.

                I like to participate in a good discussion and/or debate but when a user starts getting overly personal, calling people racist, telling bold faced lies etc. I will hit the report button. If the topic is clearly political or racist, or overtly anti-any country then I will report it. It's a forum filled with people from around the world and that should be respected. Hell, I have even reported an anti-Putin thread because obviously we have some Russians on here and the old rules said you could not directly bash any country.

                I love debating, but the debate must be an honest debate or it's not worth the time and trouble. In-fact it's not worth the wasted pixels either.

                Obviously this forum is not crucial, but the forum has rules and members are asked to participate as moderators. If nobody hit the report button this place would be an absolute mess! I am not sure it's a matter of getting pissed off for everyone that reports, many of us report to help keep the place civil.

                Cheers

                -don
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                • Profile picture of the author discrat
                  Don,
                  Honest to goodness, even crazy ones I saw I figured Paul and the Mods would take care of it. Maybe that is being lackadaisical on my part.

                  Your probably right I should have been more pro-active.

                  However, I still did not understand the thing about reporting Threads because someone has too much of a political rant or slant or whatever ??

                  I mean I have several times confronted people person to person about things like exhibiting negative Racist overtones. But I NEVER once thought about reporting it. ( And I am talking about real racist remarks)

                  That is just not my nature.

                  I'm more mano y mano
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                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                    Don,
                    Honest to goodness, even crazy ones I saw I figured Paul and the Mods would take care of it. Maybe that is being lackadaisical on my part.

                    Your probably right I should have been more pro-active.

                    However, I still did not understand the thing about reporting Threads because someone has too much of a political rant or slant or whatever ??

                    I mean I have several times confronted people person to person about things like exhibiting negative Racist overtones. But I NEVER once thought about reporting it. ( And I am talking about real racist remarks)

                    That is just not my nature.

                    I'm more mano y mano
                    Yeah, I have seen you confront people on racist stuff, good on you. I also agree mano y mano is the way to go, but some people have a very difficult time staying on topic when the going gets rough. A few users here resort to name calling, lies, and demeaning remarks and I am not talking about calling someone a lib or right-wing or using the term liberal spew. I am talking about real personal attacks and nonsense that does not belong in the forum. You have seen it, I have seen it, and we both have confronted it.

                    The rules here are a bit conflicted since politics is allowed in the no politics allowed forum. At the end of the day many topics will turn political, and that's exactly where some discussions eventually should flow to because politics is a big part of our everyday life --> and that's what makes this forum a bit difficult to moderate.

                    If it was a free-for-all no delete forum I would be all for it. The rules would be clear cut, and nobody gets bounced or has their threads closed. I don't mind a little blood in the water, but a commercial marketing forum does not need threads turning racial or anti-country etc. so I understand why they want to keep things civil here.

                    If they opened a free-for-all sub-forum where blood is allowed I am sure we would find a few willing participants. The one things folks don't need when they google a user here is a bunch of remarks calling them names, racists, kid-killer supporters etc. etc.

                    I actually have been a paid staffer and have campaigned for a democrat, and I have supported independents and republicans. I love a good political discussion but I could do without some of the nonsense.

                    Heck, I have actually taken a REAL hot air balloon ride from a democrat at the end of a campaign.

                    Go figure.

                    Cheers

                    -don
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

                      The rules here are a bit conflicted since politics is allowed in the no politics forum. At the end of the day many topics will turn political, and that's exactly where some discussions eventually should flow to because politics is a big part of our everyday life. That's what makes it a bit difficult to moderate.
                      Well, the US is a WEIRD country! The federal government is SPECIFICALLY FORBIDDEN to work in various areas and yet DOES! The areas that it is to cover are SPECIFICALLY spelled out in the constitution. The parts the state is FORBIDDEN to cover are spelled out. The other rights are to go to the states or the citizens, and be arbitrated by the supreme court. We have multiple parties that then get on either side of these issues. And then what was NOT political and is even FORBIDDEN from being a political issue becomes one.

                      It then gets WORSE than that as ANYTHING could then be looked at with a political lens and so even things people WANT to be political become political. NOW, that even extends to phones, sex, PRIVATE PROPERTY, PRIVATE BUSINESS, religion, school, and even BACON! GIVE ME A BREAK!

                      HECK, TECHNICALLY, we can't even TALK about politics since that is a political issue. I DON'T mean because of a prohibition from WF or because we are talking about politics, but because we are talking of the IDEA of politics. They have a bill that they have tried to pass with an acronym of .... which is really destructive. One person has even publically said that only ONE party should be allowed to talk. Only THEY should get any news or have commentators. You can NOT have a legitimate democracy if the public is not informed.

                      And don't get me started of how the idea of "Watergate" has become a FANTASTIC myth that some people consider the worst thing EVER to happen in politics and yet so many stating that can only name NIXON, and not ANY other fact! They will say this even while they IGNORE things today that are WORSE, and where they even do ALL that Watergate was ever about, and even applauding such deals!

                      The only thing in Watergate that isn't done now, to the best of our knowledge, is the idea of a PHYSICAL "breakin". That is done in so much easier ways today. What ONCE required an illegal breakin that ANY policeman would follow up on and have a decent chance of solving may now only require some line of sight point, receiver, or hacking. While many of those ARE illegal, they likely WILL be delayed, and may even be ignored. If followed up, there may be no punishment.

                      Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                    However, I still did not understand the thing about reporting Threads because someone has too much of a political rant or slant or whatever ?
                    Well, that's the thing. Allen banned political discussions on the forum in 2008, and the ban was continued by Alaister. The reason for the new post by Alaister is Allen's post was accidentally deleted.





                    So what is happening now is some political discussion is being allowed --> and someone with mod privs gets to decide what is too partisan or too slanted.

                    It's a tough call, and IMHO with this no politics and religion rule in-effect, and with the forum being arbitrarily moderated, it's not an ideal situation. Obviously one person's definition of bias can be another person's perfectly reasonable.

                    How many times have you seen the national political debate participants (and audience) cry foul on the moderator? Yeah, these days it's quite often. And that is a debate where politics is allowed.

                    That's why I was making the point that some folks like to post topics that easily can turn political, and others stay far away from those topics and stick to the lighter side of life. Sure that second group of members may post when they think they see a partisan reply, and therein lies the whole enchilada.

                    If people avoid posting topics that clearly can turn political then obviously this would tone down the partisan political rhetoric.

                    Cheers

                    -don.
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                Originally Posted by discrat View Post

                Geesh closing threads down and reporting Posts.....I never thought people did those things. At least to the extent I am hearing ( btw, not directing this at anyone necessarily)

                People really get all that pissed off to take time and try to shut threads down by reporting stuff ?

                Funny, I have been here going on 7 years and I never thought to report anyone. Not once.


                Life in these Forums is not that crucial in my Life
                Same here. I have had members get under my skin pretty bad before and my reaction was to ask to have myself banned for a while. My logic was if someone here could effect me in a negative way, then that was on me for allowing it to happen. I was the one who needed the time out to get my crap together so it wouldn't happen again.
                With the exception of the spam threads, reporting someone is akin to a 4 year old saying "Mommy he made a face at me".
                Signature

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                • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                  Same here. I have had members get under my skin pretty bad before and my reaction was to ask to have myself banned for a while. My logic was if someone here could effect me in a negative way, then that was on me for allowing it to happen. I was the one who needed the time out to get my crap together so it wouldn't happen again.
                  With the exception of the spam threads, reporting someone is akin to a 4 year old saying "Mommy he made a face at me".
                  I respectfully disagree. Some kid making a face at a 4 year old is done and gone in that moment. Nonsense and stuff that crosses the line that is posted on a popular forum can remain highly visible on the internet basically in perpetude. The forum members and the forum itself does not need this sort of nonsense. Some folks want to have a civil discussion, but often times political and religious discussions can take a turn for the worse.

                  I have mentioned this before but I will say it again, the mods need help catching posts in the wrong forums, they need help identifying and stopping piracy to protect their members, they need help stopping the sig exposure spammers etc. etc. etc. Obviously Thomas knew a bit about forum behavior and it's why he posted the no country bashing, no politics, no religious discussions rule that is not being strictly enforced today. Too much hate is exposed and posted, especially when someone set in their positions decides to start calling entire segments of the population racist etc etc.

                  If nobody reported anything, or most of the members did not "sorta" follow the rules this place would be a full blown blood bath.

                  This is a huge member moderated forum and the bottom line is this forum needs it's members to report posts that cross the line or break the rules.

                  You may disagree, but as a forum owner of an intense political forum back in the day I know as well as anyone that moderators can use some help moderating a busy forum, and some ground rules need to laid to keep the forum from becoming a full blown free-for-all.

                  If everyone debated honestly it would be one thing, but reality says that's not always what happens. Obviously if members can be banned for crossing the line, and Paul has said he has banned many members for crossing the line, then obviously some stuff is not allowed here.

                  Don't let members get under your skin and take a ban. Just ignore the thread if it's not a topic you want to discuss. If you enjoy the topic but a member crosses a line or breaks the rules to the point of it making you angry then report the post.

                  Cheers

                  -don
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    You can disagree, I don't really care, which is kind of my point.
                    When I asked Paul to ban me (I think it was a couple years ago) I recognized where the actual problem was and it was with me. I was caring about what a person I don't particularly like and whose opinions mean nothing to me get under my skin. That's all on me.
                    I'm not one for following rules so I won't report someone else for breaking them on a forum (except spam, I hate spam).
                    If someone wants to be an idiot and call everybody a racist, that's on them. If I let it bother me and can't show them to be the idiot they are, that's on me.
                    I get called names all the time, especially online and especially in political discussions. I just think it's a waste of time getting upset over it all. In fact I think it was a waste of time just posting this, so I'll end it here.
                    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    I don't see any problem with it.
    Policy is policy. You can't blame the security. If the school told them not to allow military in uniform then so be it. If the church says you can't enter the church wearing shorts then don't. If the police says you can't be in duty wearing civilian clothes then don't. After all, that was a graduation day and not battlefield. Some dress code needed to be followed.

    What is wrong with following just simple rules?
    Some people are overrating human rights.....
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      I don't see any problem with it.
      Policy is policy. You can't blame the security. If the school told them not to allow military in uniform then so be it. If the church says you can't enter the church wearing shorts then don't. If the police says you can't be in duty wearing civilian clothes then don't. After all, that was a graduation day and not battlefield. Some dress code needed to be followed.

      What is wrong with following just simple rules?
      Some people are overrating human rights.....
      We are not talking about overrated human rights, a police officer wearing civilian cloths on duty, or someone wearing shorts to church. The head of the Rochester School District says a mistake was made by the school and/or the security guard.

      Shaner sent a letter to WJBK, which reads in part, “the district has apologized for any perception that individuals in uniform are not welcome in the school. The district does not have a policy excluding individuals in uniform and will be working with administration and the firm that handles our security to make sure district policies are understood and communicated accurately.”

      Army Officer Turned Away by Security at Entrance of Daughter’s High School
      Rochester Community Schools Superintendent Robert Shaner apologized after school security guards told a U.S. Army officer he couldn’t enter Adams High School while wearing his uniform.

      “As a former officer of Marines and the superintendent of an excellent school district, I deeply regret this unfortunate incident,” Shaner wrote in a letter to parents. “I want to personally assure the community, especially our families who are affiliated with any of our armed services, that we respect and honor their service to our country.”

      Shaner told the Free Press Friday that the district has no policy excluding military members from schools and he’s sorry that people have concluded that it does.

      “I’ve profusely apologized to the parents,” Shaner said.

      The school district contracts with a private firm for security service and is reviewing the incident and “will take disciplinary action if appropriate,” according to Shaner’s letter.

      Rochester Adams High apologizes after dad in Army uniform denied entry | Detroit Free Press | freep.com
      Cheers

      -don
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    • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      Policy is policy.
      There was no policy.

      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      If the school told them not to allow military in uniform then so be it.
      The school didn't.

      Originally Posted by Adie View Post

      What is wrong with following just simple rules?
      If you want to enforce them, it helps to have them first.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    Hey Robert,

    Let's be honest here... You don't think this one was going to get political do you? Do you think someone may have gotten a bit riled up later on in the thread?

    I am not embedding the image in hopes that this post will not get deleted. (Since the thread was deleted.)

    http://i.imgur.com/JQA8tr6.png

    Seriously, after reading your opener and the very first reply do you really think the discussion would have stayed non-political? Paul made up a rule that hot button political topics and persons should not be mentioned here.

    Do you really think this thread would have stayed open?

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author msdobe
    Wow, don't think I've ever seen a thread like this. Talk about getting off topic and doing a little back stabbing...

    At any rate, I think the whole incident shows the sad state of affairs today. Who would have thought 20 years ago that we would even need security guards at our schools. At least the school handled the situation well.

    And even though I can understand (somewhat) the guard's viewpoint, I still think it's unacceptable.

    Just my point of view, after all, everyone IS entitled to their own opinion.
    Jenny
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    How ridiculous that a thread about some guy getting turned away because of a uniform turns into another I hate TimP and why didn't you ban him and he's your favorite "lib" and I'm not happy about the moderation here yada yada yada thread. [sigh]
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @ Tim

    Bombastic ---> that's exactly what the post you just made is, if you want to give it that much credit.

    Here is your definition of contaminated! You sure do have a hard time telling the truth, don't you!

    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...-citizens.html

    The only contamination on that thread is the vile post of yours that was deleted --> which you have admitted to posting to have the thread closed.

    You have a very bad habit of trying to insinuate people are racist and uncaring because the disagree with you, you have a very bad habit of not telling the truth, and you have another very bad habit of avoiding the tough questions posed directly to you.

    I have had more people on this forum busted for selling pirated images, pirated video, pirated software, pirated themes, and pirated plugins in the past 2 years than you will in a lifetime.

    The last person I PMed Paul about was a guy that has been banned at least 3 times from here for selling scrapers and spam tools including a Warrior Forum user email address scraper. Yeah, he was back here again peddling his wares under a new username and I spotted him. The majority of the PMs between Paul and I dealt with someone that was selling or giving away something that was stolen, or they were using stolen material on their sales page.

    In-fact you don't even use the marketing sections of this forum anymore, instead you use this basement forum to post your liberal talking points and push liberal ideas and policy.

    Of your last 500 posts to Warrior Forum I don't think one of them has been outside of the off-topic forum. Wow. Don't you have a life outside of the off-topic forum? You can't find a political forum that will put up with you? I figure if the search by user function actually worked we may find out you have not posted in the other sections of this forum for 1000 posts or more.

    Obviously you can't understand the rules and you fail to abide by the rules and now you are all big in the shorts since Paul won't ban you for doing something that he said will get you banned. Wow, typical, and a good laugh at best.

    But that's par for your course. You are the one that goes off the deep end to get threads closed. I have never intentionally posted nonsense and flame to have a thread closed, but you have, so you need to stop lying to yourself and others.

    I don't report posts that I disagree with either, I do report posts that cross the line or blatantly violate the rules, and obviously you are one of the members that crosses the line quite frequently. But the fact is I have reported very, very, very few of your posts because I prefer to debate your political nonsense once you have brought a thread to that point. I did report that vile that post you made that that Steve called you out on. The one that you posted to make sure the thread got closed. In-fact I may not have have reported any of your threads to have them closed or deleted. The problem you have is you try to attack a person's character or insinuate they are a racist or uncaring if you don't agree with you. You can rarely accept another point of view, and I guess that is why you resort to your nonsense when you do.

    I am not the one that closed 8 of T.L.'s, 4 of Joe's threads and 3 of yours over the past few months. I am not the one that deleted many other threads that crossed the line. Like Paul said, take your issue up with the mods or Alaister.

    You still have not commented on the topic of this discussion. Instead you have used your posts to attack the website the article was posted on, the people on the website commenting on the article, your perception of the political intent of the publisher and than people commenting, and last but not least your BS attempt at an attack on me.

    Irony? You really don't have a clue. The threads I have reported recently were mostly all fresh few posts threads. I don't report threads that I am participating to have them deleted...that would be a complete waste of all of the time I took to post on the thread. I do not report a post or a thread just because I disagree with the content of the thread, maybe you do, but I don't. You should know better than that by all of the debate and discussion we have actually had.

    I love a good debate and it's quite clear that I am not reporting threads or posts to have them deleted if an honest discussion is going on. It is a fact that I just starting reporting off-topic threads when Paul told me to start reporting them! I know that's a tough concept for you to understand, but as often times is the case, your posts are not based in reality and your last post to this thread is no exception.

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      I did report that post you made that that Steve called you out on.
      Wow! OK folks, so you have seen Don trying to get me banned for getting a thread I started closed, and he just admitted that he was the one who got it closed. He reported it! Too funny.

      Don, sometimes it's better to stfu and walk away. You are embarrassing yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Wow! OK folks, so you have seen Don trying to get me banned for getting a thread I started closed, and he just admitted that he was the one who got it closed. He reported it! Too funny.

        Don, sometimes it's better to stfu and walk away. You are embarrassing yourself.
        You and that post you made are/were the embarrassment. If you would have not melted down and posted that GWB is a war criminal rant and the personal attacks and lies about Kay, Steve, Steve J, and myself then the thread would still be open. You really don't have a clue do you? You admitted to making the post, you admitted to crossing the line to intentionally get the thread closed and I bet I am not the only one that reported it, or would have reported it it had stayed on the thread longer than a few minutes. You admitted you crossed the line and made the post for the purpose of closing the thread...good grief, are you having memory issues?

        Dude, get over yourself, a MOD thought the post was over the line so he deleted it. If you would not have made that vile post the thread would probably still be open. I did not make the decision to post that cra*, you did. Instead of answering a few questions YOU decided to close the thread.

        Don't cry and whine because you crossed the line and got caught. The mods are not blind and they made the decision to not only delete the post, but to close the thread.

        Grow up man, fess up to your mistakes, stop trying to blame others for your actions, and own what you post.

        Cheers

        -don
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  • Profile picture of the author kj1010
    The way our armed services is treated when they have contributed so much to our freedom is more than appalling.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    A classic example of how a couple of the members on here work their inflammatory political magic.

    T.L posts a politically sensitive topic in a not so eloquent manner...

    Chipotle asks customers to not wave guns around their stores, causing gun nuts to threaten boycott
    Tim's first reply on the thread is of course far off topic and inferring that the right does not want to stop any voter fraud, instead they want to suppress the vote of liberals.

    By the way, the people who want to start asking for ids to vote aren't doing it to stop voter fraud. That's only what they want you to think. The only reason they are doing it is to keep the vote down for certain groups of people. It's all for political reasons. They also are the same people who want to stop the voting on Sundays, which also is a way to keep the vote down for certain groups of people. Tell me how stopping voting on Sundays will stop nonexistent voter fraud.
    Tim then posts that for sure voter ID laws are racist...now this won't amp up the partisan political discussion, eh?

    Are these voter id laws racist? Yeah, because they are aimed at limiting voting by minorities which this country has a long history and tradition of doing. However, I think in this instance the reason was more political in that the people behind these laws were thinking "How can we win the next election".
    Then T.L jumps in with a comment that 99% of ugly racists reside on the right. Yeah, that one won't get conservatives riled up, will it?

    All I said was since 99% of the ugly racists and 99% of the anti-scientific climate change deniers are on the right...
    Then T.L. clarifies himself and says that only 90+% of racists are on the right...

    It's just a fact that 90+% of the racists in this country just happen to also be on the right.
    Now that T.L has the number of racists defined to somewhere between 90-99% on the right he moves on to the topic of women. Now he claims 99% of the people that say loony things about women are on the right. That should get the right going on a Chipolte thread, eh?

    It's just a fact that 99% of the people saying loony things about women, their role in society and very importantly their reproductive rights, happen to be on the right side of the isle.
    Now T.L. goes on to tell us 99% of the gun "nuts" are on the right... So far on this short thread T.L. has told us 99% of the people saying loony things about women are on the right, 99% of the racists are on the right, and 99% of the gun nuts are on the right. Wow, he's not taking any partisan political shots is he? Do you think this stuff may rile a few forum members up in the no politics form?

    99% of the gun nuts and I mean NUTS!!! also happen to be on the right side of the political ledger.
    Now to the closing post on the thread. Tim basically tells Thom (in the form of a question) that Thom has no problem with people suppressing votes to win elections. So basically Tim has just inferred that everyone that supports voter ID laws is a racist.

    What was wrong with the old system Thom? You have no problem with people obviously trying to suppress votes to win elections? Why is that?
    This is a classic example of how some of the members use this forum to push inflammatory partisan political talking points and agendas. Post a hot button topic like open carry and then let the political flamethrowing begin.

    This is not an isolated case....this happens over and over and over again on this forum and it is the same few members that are always instigating the partisan political rhetoric.

    Some of these members needs to take a hard look in the mirror and the picture will become quite clear on why some of these threads are being shut down.

    Cheers

    -don
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

      Tim's first reply on the thread is of course far off topic and inferring that the right does not want to stop any voter fraud, instead they want to suppress the vote of liberals.


      Another example of your blind bias. If you go back and read that thread you will see that Kay brought up the voting id issue. ( Sorry Kay. Don't mean to bring you into this again but Don keeps posting his bs lies and mistakes.) You really do have screw loose.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        As far as reporting things...

        Tim: Don is a long way from being the main person reporting political threads in this section. The folks who do that most are people who report all of it, regardless of which way it might lean.

        I will also point out that Don was always a huge help with getting rid of scammers and IP violations in the sales sections. His attention to those issues saved hundreds of members here from significant liability exposure by stopping the sale of licenses the vendors didn't have the right to sell.

        When he says he did those things, he's not exaggerating. He's understating his role, if anything. We have a whole new class of IP watchdogs who learned most of what they know from his posts on the subject.

        Frank: The circle you were warned about is largely a myth. Seriously. There are a few people who report things just because they don't like them, but they're mostly ignored by the mods.

        Well, they were. I'm not sure if the newer mods have all caught on to that stuff yet. If they haven't, they will. They're a smart bunch.

        It's true that new people don't get as much leeway as established members on certain things. That's the case in most social settings, though. OT, unlike the rest of the forum, is strictly a social setting.

        Robert: The majority of people don't ever report anything. That's okay. Just be glad there are people who do, if you get anything at all out of the place.

        Thom: Some of the people reporting things often seem like they're throwing exactly the kind of "He made a face at me" tantrum you describe. Most, however, are genuinely trying to keep things civil, and don't have any other motives.

        There really isn't a lot of reporting of non-political stuff in OT, other than the drive-by spam. The really petty stuff (as far as reports) is almost exclusively in Main Discussion and the paid ad sections.

        Used to be a lot in the SEO forum, but Mike and Yukon have gotten that down close to nil.

        Now, to other things...

        Tim,

        [Putting the mod hat on for a minute] The whole "stfu" thing? Stop. That's over the line. [/mod]

        Don,

        There are lots of things I used to do and don't any more. There are some things I used to do that just don't get done.

        As far as the comment about my "favorite lib" ... You're reaching. There isn't a single active member of this forum who could tell you my personal political leanings on most issues with any degree of certainty.

        One could as easily point to seasoned or Steve and ask why I hadn't banned my "favorite righties." I notice you didn't ask that question, though.

        There is a new team in place. Alaister is in charge of it. Until they're clearer on where they're headed, the best thing I can do as far as public moderation is try to stay out of their way.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Frank: The circle you were warned about is largely a myth. Seriously. There are a few people who report things just because they don't like them, but they're mostly ignored by the mods.
          Got it, but if that's true then my only recourse is to actually believe that I am capable of posts that are so incredibly profound that I actually DO leave people speechless.

          OK. I'll accept that. :-)

          Cheers. - Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          The whole "stfu" thing? Stop. That's over the line.

          Paul
          I agree, there is no reason to tell someone they should join the Southern Tenant Farmers' Union. That should be an official rule.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Another example of your blind bias. If you go back and read that thread you will see that Kay brought up the voting id issue. ( Sorry Kay. Don't mean to bring you into this again but Don keeps posting his bs lies and mistakes.) You really do have screw loose.
        Hahahaha...nice try and obviously you may be the one with a loose screw or two! I am not talking about Kay, and I have not posted any lies. Mistakes? Whatever you say, dude. No blind bias here... Kay may have brought up the ID issue but she did not call anyone a racist, she did not infer a party or group or people was racist and she did not play the race card. You did!

        Kay's post...

        Convince easily?

        Does anyone thinks it's a bit odd that "shocking image" appears ONLY on that site??? Hmmmm...

        Can you say "set up" - or is it too much trouble to check it out?

        And what's the overriding message of the site? Those nasty guys on the right are trying to take away your right to vote!!!! OMG - they want to see your ID...oops, that cancels out the "vote often" plan.

        Isn't it wrong to ask for ID for people applying for food stamps or housing assistance? How dare they expect people to prove who they are before getting govt money?

        This is nothing but showboating and I have nothing but contempt for this "group" and their antics.
        Tim's post

        By the way, the people who want to start asking for ids to vote aren't doing it to stop voter fraud. That's only what they want you to think. The only reason they are doing it is to keep the vote down for certain groups of people. It's all for political reasons. They also are the same people who want to stop the voting on Sundays, which also is a way to keep the vote down for certain groups of people. Tell me how stopping voting on Sundays will stop nonexistent voter fraud.
        His later post...

        Are these voter id laws racist? Yeah
        So the thread takes a swipe at "gun nuts" and it does not take long for you to tell us voter ID laws are racist. Got to give you credit though, you were not nearly as bad as T.L. was on that thread. He was really letting the race stuff and other nonsense fly!

        We got it, Tim.

        Cheers

        -don
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Yeah, Don. We get it. There are people on both sides of the Partisan Divide who bait threads. If you're not going to point out both sides, this is just more of what you're complaining about.

          Not your stone to throw.
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          • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Yeah, Don. We get it. There are people on both sides of the Partisan Divide who bait threads. If you're not going to point out both sides, this is just more of what you're complaining about.

            Not your stone to throw.
            Got ya...

            OK, I can start pointing out more of those baiters on the right as well...in-fact the topic of this thread *could* be considered political bait by some. Heck, maybe I'll make it a project in my spare time to do some scientific calculations.

            I believe we already agree on 2 of those baiters on the right, and for sure we have 2 baiters on the left. For those keeping score, I think it's all even at this point.

            Now if we calculated an actual bait bucket weight percentage, I believe I know who will win the bait bucket battle, but I will keep those thoughts to myself for now.

            My main point of posting on this thread along with commenting on the posted topic was to point out the fact that we need less bait. So to all of you, please stop chumming the waters! That should do it! Right, Paul?

            Cheers

            -don
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Thom: Some of the people reporting things often seem like they're throwing exactly the kind of "He made a face at me" tantrum you describe. Most, however, are genuinely trying to keep things civil, and don't have any other motives.
              Paul that was really just about how I would feel if I reported someone
              Just common sense tells me there would be some people in the tantrum group. As far as the members who post a lot in the OT I would think there are way more in the second group then in the first. I just don't see anyone making a habit of reporting someone because their feelings got hurt lasting long down here.
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              Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
              Getting old ain't for sissy's
              As you are I was, as I am you will be
              You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Thom,
                I just don't see anyone making a habit of reporting someone because their feelings got hurt lasting long down here.
                Never underestimate the power of obsession.


                Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Don,

              It would be very difficult to do scientific calculations without taking personal bias into account. That's not something you, or most of the rest of us, would be especially good at. They tend to be things we're not aware of.

              Then there's the matter of intent. I am convinced, for example, that Seasoned is unaware of most of his trips across that line. Where do you count those? He certainly isn't malicious, and I don't believe his intent is to flout the rules. He just types whatever he's thinking at the moment.

              I think Tim just gets frustrated. TL, on the other hand, will push the line until he gets banned, then wait a while after and do it all over again. The intervals have become longer, but the pattern there stays the same.

              Tim was right when he suggested that you should have seen what it used to be like in those discussions. It was beyond ridiculous. Whoever was in office, Clinton, Bush, or Obama, was compared to Hitler. Any and all vocal pols were attacked in ways that had little to do with fact or substance. The viciousness of the arguments was enough to make me suggest this whole section should be deleted at one point.

              I suspect that Alaister will just tell the new mods to delete anything that is even close to political. If that happens, this stuff won't be an issue for long. Sadly, we'll lose a lot of intelligent discussions because some people want either nothing at all or the completely unfettered stuff that some folks here consider an invitation to attack anyone who thinks differently than they do.

              The majority have tried to keep things civil, which is all anyone really wants. There are a small few who refuse, and they're going to ruin it for the rest of us. Then they'll run away and scream about how it's unfair and how their perspective wasn't respected.

              The notion that it was their use of violent and/or inflammatory language that was the problem won't ever enter their minds.

              Such is the price of certainty.


              Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Guys, that whole "no religion" thing is as close to absolute as it gets. Please, don't even go there.
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
    @ Paul

    Yeah, I may add semi- to the word scientific or a wink to the end of the sentence. I almost added the wink, originally. I could put together a small panel of folks with "equal" representation to review the data...but that's far more trouble than it's worth. On top of that, the search by user function is only going back several months at this time. That said, I pretty much see most of the things you mentioned in that post as you do.

    Cheers

    -don
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Knock it off, Tim.

    Don, please stop baiting him.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Knock it off, Tim.
      OK Paul. I'll knock it off. But could you go back and delete all the bs crap he posted about me also? Some people might actually think what he is saying is true and it just isn't.
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      A lot of you guys remind me of my parents and remind me why I hate Partisan Politics.

      My Mom is a adamant Liberal and Dad is a straight ticket republican. I heard it back and forth over and over for so many years I am equally turned off by both the Righties and Lefties.

      Actually, you all give me quite frankly unpleasant 'flashbacks"

      (btw yes, they have been married 57 years too. Happily for the most part, I might add.)

      Me ? I am a little bit NOWHERE.

      I look at each issue and decide accordingly.

      The hell with the partisan politics, it makes me sick.

      People need to take each issue and make your decision based on that issue and that issue alone...and forget whether or not it is going to fit in nicely with your suscribed little "liberal" or "right Wing " group.


      We need more people in this Country to say f*** that little 3rd grade mentality of "whose team are you on "!!

      It gets old and breaks down any real progress we could make if we worked together instead of against each other.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        It gets old and breaks down any real progress we could make if we worked together instead of against each other.
        Yup. If we could just cure us of human nature..........

        Sorry. I actually liked your post, but I always think it's funny whenever anyone suggests we, as a species, change behavior. We are driven by instincts and needs...that are bone deep.

        Changes in human behavior happen, but it happens at the speed of tectonic shifting of Earth's crust.

        Again, I liked your post. It just triggered the thought.



        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


        Such is the price of certainty.


        Paul
        Paul; Reading your responses to this thread shows a depth of understanding that I rarely see.
        I wish I shared it more than I do.

        Yes...yes....I'm fishing for a compliment.
        (I had to add that because it's funny)
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      • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
        Banned
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post


        <snip>

        I look at each issue and decide accordingly.

        <snip>

        People need to take each issue and make your decision based on that issue and that issue alone...and forget whether or not it is going to fit in nicely with your suscribed little "liberal" or "right Wing " group.

        <snip>

        It gets old and breaks down any real progress we could make if we worked together instead of against each other.
        Triple bingo, quite well stated.

        Cheers

        -don
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        A lot of you guys remind me of my parents and remind me why I hate Partisan Politics.

        My Mom is a adamant Liberal and Dad is a straight ticket republican. I heard it back and forth over and over for so many years I am equally turned off by both the Righties and Lefties.

        Actually, you all give me quite frankly unpleasant 'flashbacks"

        (btw yes, they have been married 57 years too. Happily for the most part, I might add.)

        Me ? I am a little bit NOWHERE.

        I look at each issue and decide accordingly.

        The hell with the partisan politics, it makes me sick.

        People need to take each issue and make your decision based on that issue and that issue alone...and forget whether or not it is going to fit in nicely with your suscribed little "liberal" or "right Wing " group.


        We need more people in this Country to say f*** that little 3rd grade mentality of "whose team are you on "!!

        It gets old and breaks down any real progress we could make if we worked together instead of against each other.

        Yes! Yes! Yes!

        Hmmm, how can I say this without ruffling any feathers.....


        Okay, I can't. So I'll just say that is exactly the way I roll.


        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Claude,
          Reading your responses to this thread shows a depth of understanding that I rarely see.
          Are you saying you rarely understand? Is it just me, or is this a general thing? And what about little Nell?

          Dan, you know what to get Claude for Christmas now!


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Claude,Are you saying you rarely understand? Is it just me, or is this a general thing? And what about little Nell?

            Dan, you know what to get Claude for Christmas now!

            Paul
            Paul; No, I understand quite a lot. But your posts are unfailingly even tempered. I don't believe I've ever seen that here, even from myself.

            Who the heck is Little Nell?
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Tim,

              I just looked up the post Don was talking about in the Swiss vote thread. As I read it, you absolutely did insult Kay, Steve J, and seasoned.

              I'm not going to go through and try to find all the places where you suggested that policies could be racist in effect without necessarily having that as the intent.

              That's always a dangerous topic. No matter how many ways and how many times you qualify your comments, some people who disagree with your conclusions will take the statements as personal accusations.

              Don,

              You really should put those rocks down. You're every bit as bad as you claim Tim is when it comes to insults and inflammatory comments.

              If it continues, I suspect you'll end up going through the same cycle of ban/repeat/ban until you start to moderate the tone of your remarks as some of the earlier offenders here have.

              Unfortunately, you'll likely prod enough people into getting angry and crossing the lines themselves to make it seem like you're the one being "persecuted." Then you'll claim it's your beliefs that are the cause, and not your manners.

              You would call anyone else out on it, but you think it's okay for you because you're "certain" you're "right."

              That kind of certainty is dangerous.

              Claude,

              I was kidding.

              I have my intemperate moments and my streaks of snark. I just try not to let them become a pattern rather than an exception. Especially in public policy discussions, which I believe should be kept civil.

              Allowing emotion to dominate debate is how we've reached the point at which our elected officials are more interested in painting the opposition as bad people than as good folks with different ideas about how to reach a shared goal.

              It's also how this section of this forum has become a place where good, intelligent, well-intentioned people regularly insult other good, intelligent, well-intentioned people.

              It's poison, and it spreads.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Don,

                You really should put those rocks down. You're every bit as bad as you claim Tim is when it comes to insults and inflammatory comments.

                Not even close....maybe on a few threads, but that's where comparison abruptly ends. I never start the political BS and he is one of the few that frequently starts it. Let's talk about who baits more threads, shall we? Obviously he is the landslide winner.

                If it continues, I suspect you'll end up going through the same cycle of ban/repeat/ban until you start to moderate the tone of your remarks as some of the earlier offenders here have.

                Actually, I have. Tim is the only guy that gets it now, and he gets it as good as he gives. If you are going to start talking about bans then you should ban Tim for closing that thread down on purpose. You said you would, but you didn't. I hate to beat a dead horse, but you let him off the hook --> and now you are tossing the B word back at me. Please do stop with the bias.

                Unfortunately, you'll likely prod enough people into getting angry and crossing the lines themselves to make it seem like you're the one being "persecuted." Then you'll claim it's your beliefs that are the cause, and not your manners.

                I don't prod anyone these days but Tim, and I have only done that on a couple of threads after I had read enough of his racial and anti-conservative nonsense to choke a horse. You can't show me but a few threads where you can say that with a straight face. I can show you at least 3 threads that Tim has started on the topic of RACE...and of course all of those are closed. Dude is obsessed with talking about race. Dude is also obsessed with turning threads political

                You would call anyone else out on it, but you think it's okay for you because you're "certain" you're "right."

                Wrongo.

                That kind of certainty is dangerous.

                At least when I am asked a question I answer it instead of resorting to thread closing personal attacks.
                I believe I have heard more than enough from you on this subject, and IMHO, you have not reviewed enough material to make an informed opinion on the matter. You have taken a quick look a couple of heated threads and are not looking at the big picture.

                If you actually read that deleted post then you would see he called GWB and DC a war criminal a couple of times, he told bald-faced lies about my supposed full-blown defense of GWB and the Iraq war until my last dying breath. His GWB and Iraq War nonsense is simply not true. He flat out made it up. On top of that he had to throw in some racial bullsmack about Blacks killing whites. Yeah, Tim is obsessed with race. Offensive and untrue on several grounds, but of course you failed to mention those parts of his post.

                You told us specifically to NOT to post GWB stuff and Tim later calls him a war criminal in an epic meltdown rant.

                You told us you would ban people that intentionally close down threads and that's exactly what he admitted to doing but yet he is not banned.

                You deleted his post on this thread and told him to stop and he continued on with several more posts a few hours later.

                Good grief, this guy gets to stomp all over your lines. I got it Paul, you don't ban Tim these days.... I read you loud and clear.

                By dropping the B word now and not doing the deed you said you would do earlier is putting a little icing on the ol' bias cake.

                One last thing, I don't know where you (and he) get off thinking I am right-winger. As I have mentioned before, I have been a paid campaigner for a democrat and I have supported independents and conservatives as well. I served my country and am a proud American. I am not a right winger, in-fact on many issues I am quite liberal. GWB was not "my guy" and anyone that says so is talking straight out of their a$$.

                Have a good night.

                Cheers

                -don

                PS. Tim never did answer the majority questions I posed to him --> and most of them were not answered in any manner in his previous posts to the thread. He could not answer the questions, he could not point me to the answers to the questions because he did not have the answers to the questions and that's exactly what threw him into meltdown mode.
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Don,

                  You're not just beating a dead horse. That equine is imaginary.

                  As I've said, I no longer fill the same role here as when I made that statement. At the time, and for as long as I was filling that role, I would have done exactly as I said. When roles change, so do the actions which are appropriate.

                  As far as the notion that not banning Tim shows a bias toward the left... That's a sloppy bit of spin. Tim or TL could as easily accuse me of being biased toward the right for not banning the conservatives who've crossed the line in the same time frame.

                  I have a long history of non-partisan enforcement of that rule. The fact that I no longer seek out and actively police it at all doesn't mean I've suddenly started favoring one side over the other.

                  The only time I mess with any of that stuff right now is when I happen across it while reading or discussing things.

                  I also have a long history of not casually stomping on the decisions of other moderators. Another mod looked at that post and chose a course of action. I see no reason to mess with that.

                  My impression of your rude and inflammatory comments isn't based on just political discussions. The suggestion that not banning Tim is proof of some sort of leftward bias in moderation is just one example. The way you approach reporting things to the mods would be a reasonably sized collection of others. Some of your comments in WSO threads fit that description, too. I could probably name other instances, but those should suffice.

                  It's a pattern, Don. When you don't get the decision you want you impute negative motivations to the people who have chosen a different course or perspective.

                  Honestly, though, what I think on the subject doesn't matter much. It might be worth remembering that I'm the one most likely to cut you slack, because of all the help you were in getting rid of the copyright infringers and spambags.

                  The other mods don't have nearly as much reason to give you that extra rope. If you choose to burn your standing with them, that's your issue. Not mine. Not any more.


                  Paul
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    Tim,

                    I think your comments on Kay and Steve J could reasonably be called vile, yes. The stuff you said about seasoned wasn't any less nasty, but it was probably more in the "that was totally uncalled for" range.

                    Those are terms that mean different things to different people, but the bottom line is: You were acting like a complete jerk in that post. None of the version I saw seemed even remotely like kidding to me.

                    The way other people speak to you does not absolve you of the responsibility for choosing how you respond.

                    "Johnny was nasty first" doesn't make Billy's insults any less nasty. And, given the way threads can evolve, it's not even something one can usually pinpoint a start to. Johnny says something Billy interprets, possibly incorrectly, and Billy gets rude and then points fingers?

                    Not a productive way to carry on discussions of complicated and emotionally charged topics. You and Don are both much smarter people than that.


                    Paul
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Don,

                    You're not just beating a dead horse. That equine is imaginary.

                    ....

                    The other mods don't have nearly as much reason to give you that extra rope. If you choose to burn your standing with them, that's your issue. Not mine. Not any more.

                    Paul
                    You know, I enjoy the OT forum mostly and civil debates on things that people disagree on, but I remember distinctly when "a person" started posting in it, literally flooding threads with copy/pasted charts and graphs rather than engaging in honest discussion and railing against anyone who he considered "a lib" or a different political persuasion than him. Briefly, I made the decision to not post in the OT anymore, but I like it and decided not to be chased away.

                    I mean, good grief ... look at this thread as a prime example of literally flooding it because you don't like one particular person and you jump on the opportunity to turn a thread about something else into a thread about you and what and who you don't like.

                    I've just done the next best thing. For the first time, I've put someone on my block list. It's under UserCP http://www.warriorforum.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist if anyone else is interested. Granted, I'm sure I've lost my cool at times and become agitated over some responses (and I'm sure someone has screenshots and glossy photos with circles and arrows on the back to prove it), but no one has affected my enjoyment of the OT, like this one person has, and I suspect it will seem like a more civil forum now.
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                    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      For the first time, I've put someone on my block list.
                      And here, all along, I thought you were a fan. I'll miss you. (sniff).

                      Cheers. - Frank
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                        And here, all along, I thought you were a fan. I'll miss you. (sniff).

                        Cheers. - Frank
                        lol ... I can see you
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              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                Paul, yes I admit I insulted them, but did you think they were vile personal attacks? I haven't seen it since I wrote it since I don't go around making screenshots of off topic threads. As I recall though the gist of my remark to Kay was about calling her out for making a gaff that reminded me of something Sal had done in a previous thread which I found funny. I told Steve, seasoned, he couldn't put together three coherant sentences, which of course is an exaggeration. I kidded Steve J about being a "true" conservative, a term he just had used recently and got on him about calling someone an ahole and posting a video with a song about being an ahole. I believe I told him I thought that was bad form. Lol. I mean, this isn't very rough stuff really, is it? What I wrote about Don was political. It wasn't a vile personal attack.

                I then posted the post. There was nothing in that post that I thought would get the thread locked or deleted.

                Then, I started thinking that I didn't want to deal with these folks in my thread anymore because I honestly felt they weren't interested in really discussing the subject and wanted to shut it down. If you read the last couple of pages you can see what I am referring to. Seasoned yells at me using dozens of cap letters and over a hundred exclamation marks, Kay posts a couple things that were imo biased and untrue about the Obama admin and Steve J insults me. Oh and Don posts all these supposedly hard questions in his usual bombastic style and doesn't bother to read the thread where I have already answered his questions, all the while insulting me and being very rude.

                So I then said "f*+k it" and edited the post to add something very political about Bush, Cheney. What I said about them was my opinion and someone else's opinion. I just want people to know that I didn't attack anyone in a vile personal way, except for perhaps my opinion about the last admin.

                By the way, if I had a chance I may have gone back and edited out that last part but I never got the chance. Don had already reported the post and got it deleted, just as I suspected was his motive all along. I have seen Don edit his insult posts towards me many times, with a few in this thread included. He's a big time editor of his posts. He knows he goes over the line, thinks better and then makes edits. Too bad he won't let others the opportunity to do the same.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                  Banned
                  Frank, I think we need to take our tax discussion up a few notches. These guys are making us look like amateurs.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                    Frank, I think we need to take our tax discussion up a few notches. These guys are making us look like amateurs.
                    They need to read my eBook - "How to Lose Friends and Influence Satan."

                    Lightweights!

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  calling someone an ahole and posting a video with a song about being an ahole. I believe I told him I thought that was bad form.
                  That was me and when called an ahole by some people, well, sometimes it's my biggest chuckle of the day. I mean, like they say, "it takes one to know one," right? lol

                  You have to keep in mind that people resort to those tactics when they are completely devoid of any intelligent rejoinder. To put it in the vernacular, "they got nuthin'!"

                  FDR said it best - "I welcome their hatred." :-)

                  Good morning, all. - Frank
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                  I told Steve, seasoned, he couldn't put together three coherant sentences, which of course is an exaggeration.
                  That is about as close to what I was talking about as a person saying "Ohiogozeieemas"(Sorry, it is merely phonetic) to someone in japan is to the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan in WWII. SERIOUSLY, it was not at ALL what I was talking about! BTW that phrase means "Good Morning", for those that don't know.

                  HECK, I believe I even thanked you for the above. Although a tiny bit sarcastic, I DO almost enjoy some rather small insults from you, and consider them compliments. Part of that is because I have seen the other stuff. I COULD say more about that, but I hate diving in sewage.

                  WhatI am referring to I only caught you saying a few times, and I think all were short lived. HECK, I never even reported the little slights like the one you mentioned above.

                  Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        A lot of you guys remind me of my parents and remind me why I hate Partisan Politics.

        My Mom is a adamant Liberal and Dad is a straight ticket republican. I heard it back and forth over and over for so many years I am equally turned off by both the Righties and Lefties.

        Actually, you all give me quite frankly unpleasant 'flashbacks"

        (btw yes, they have been married 57 years too. Happily for the most part, I might add.)

        Me ? I am a little bit NOWHERE.

        I look at each issue and decide accordingly.

        The hell with the partisan politics, it makes me sick.

        People need to take each issue and make your decision based on that issue and that issue alone...and forget whether or not it is going to fit in nicely with your suscribed little "liberal" or "right Wing " group.


        We need more people in this Country to say f*** that little 3rd grade mentality of "whose team are you on "!!

        It gets old and breaks down a
        ny real progress we could make if we worked together instead of against each other.
        So you take the step of planting your flag pole directly in the center?
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    eggzactly ---

    ... further i just want to say that it only LOOKS like evil always wins.

    last effing hurrah let's hope...

    the more it seems that good loses the more I am ROTFLMAO
    * (because it just aint so)

    I. C. Y. 'Virtue is It's Own Reward'
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    By the way... It helps if you keep in mind that a thread isn't "yours" just because you started it. Conversations belong to everyone who participates.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      By the way... It helps if you keep in mind that a thread isn't "yours" just because you started it. Conversations belong to everyone who participates.
      I know that. Good night.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I think we all need a good sing-a-long...

      First just the girls...

      Now just the boys...

      Now let's all join in and bring it on home..."I'm an asshole...I'm an asshole..."

      Denis Leary - Asshole (Uncensored Version) - YouTube
      lol .. I love this video.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        lol .. I love this video.
        If I was Mr. Freelancer and owed the forum, I'd make the song the Official Anthem of the Off Topic Forum. Each of us would have to sing it every day, with our hands over our hearts, before posting here.

        Plus, as a single guy, the video gave me a great idea...I can just buy a couple of breast implants, no need for "installation", and save myself the cost of dinner and drinks. Life is looking up!
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          If I was Mr. Freelancer and owed the forum, I'd make the song the Official Anthem of the Off Topic Forum. Each of us would have to sing it every day, with our hands over our hearts, before posting here.
          Well, I have no problem with any of that, but what truly galls me is that as hard as I work to continuously elevate my status in the pantheon of aholery, I am constantly edged-out by those with pure, natural talent.

          Life isn't fair.

          Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

            Well, I have no problem with any of that, but what truly galls me is that as hard as I work to continuously elevate my status in the pantheon of aholery, I am constantly edged-out by those with pure, natural talent.

            Life isn't fair.

            Cheers. - Frank
            Practice. Practice. Practice.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        I tell you what is truly Shocking......
        the Spurs kicking the sh2T out of the Lakers this year.

        That is truly shocking and unacceptable to some !

        Sorry TL, could not help myself
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          I tell you what is truly Shocking......


          the Spurs kicking the sh2T out of the Lakers this year.

          That is truly shocking and unacceptable to some !

          Sorry TL, could not help myself
          Very funny! LOL!

          Go ahead and rub it in.

          I guess turnabout is fair play since when the Lakers were on top I'm sure I was a wee bit overbearing to say the least.

          I'm afraid you people have a good chance of repeating.

          All The Best!!

          TL
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          "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            Very funny! LOL!


            I guess turnabout is fair play since when the Lakers were on top I'm sure I was a wee bit overbearing to say the least.


            TL
            You think ?

            With your 16 Championships and all !!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by ForumGuru View Post

    @ Frank

    Since the conversation has moved to comedy and boobs
    A boob or two made an appearance on this thread waaaaay before Terra's post.
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    • Profile picture of the author ForumGuru
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      A boob or two made an appearance on this thread waaaaay before Terra's post.
      We agree on that! It must be Corona time! Dells Corona I may add...



      Cheers

      -don
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