Truly Shocking and Unacceptable

BS. Give some examples of threads I have started that were political and meant to "rile" up people. I rarely start a thread that is about anything that could be considered political. The one exception MIGHT be the thread about the Swiss voting for a guaranteed income in which you threw a gigantic hissy fit about to the point where I just said "F@#$ it" and posted something I knew would get it closed.

On the other hand, I have seen Kay start dozens of threads that can be considered political and I never see you jump on her for being biased and political. You know why? Because you usually agree with her. Hey, in the thread about paid leave Steve J is the one who brings up politics, again, by using the antagonistic word "Libbies". I didn't see you jump on him for that. Oh yeah, you didn't point out to him that he is biased and using that word is meant to rile up people because you also agree with him. In fact you thanked him for that post! Lol. Hypocrite.

Wow - this thread has has been extremely enlightening and confusing at the same time, but as someone oftentimes pointed to as someone with a propensity for intentionality getting threads closed-down, I feel I must comment.

First, while I will admit that I may have, on extremely rare occasions, said some things that were hyperbolic, I am a bit chagrined that anyone would actually ‘report’ a post as being too ‘anything.’ Maybe I’m old school but I believe in the old adage that if you are going to dish it out, you had damn well be able to take it. I do both, exceedingly well and am proud of it. Both are skills that I have spent decades honing in an effort to discuss things, forcefully, in an effort to staunchly defend my point of view, which last time I checked was one of the ‘freedoms’ afforded me and one that many here are constantly ranting about. I’m amazed by folks who are very concerned about their own cherished personal freedoms, but could not care less about anyone else’s. I am now discovering by reading this thread that there are people here that will only engage you to the point where they feel they have been able to ‘keep up’ and once they start to fall behind in the discourse, they will either report you or make a strong effort to get the debate terminated. I say, again - WOW!!! This is something that I have never even considered taking place. I guess that I shouldn’t be, but I’m actually shocked to have this pointed out so clearly in this thread.

I don’t believe that I have ever said anything about anyone in this forum that I regret - at least not anything that I meant to say and was interpreted correctly. That does not mean that I have not said things that I might not have softened if given the opportunity to think a bit longer. Those instances, however, are few and far between. Hell, there has been more than one occasion where I have actually apologized to people, both in public and in private for things that I have said if I felt my unpleasantness should not have been directed at them. However, while some may find instances where they felt that posts of mine were over the line, that’s on them. I make absolutely no apology for that. I leave that up to the Mods, which I have found to be uniformly fair.

I read an endless stream of crap from a few people here that wish that I and others would simply accept their perverted world view as fact, when anyone the least bit rational will recognize it as delusion rooted in irrational fear and overt hatred for others. Yes, that’s what I said, unadulterated hatred for those that don’t prescribe to their precepts. What they wish is never going to happen. I will call them on that crap in every single instance.

Now, I have been around forums since long before they were called forums and longer than a few of our denizens have graced the planet. I’m well aware of the fact that cliques are a forum fact of life and there is nothing that is less tolerated than some newbie coming along and spouting-off, especially to someone that others may hold in high regard. I get that. Have I ever let it deter me from saying anything that I felt needed to be said? Never. I actually believe in free speech and the extremely wide range of expression that should accompany it. What I see are individuals that profess to be supporters of free speech but then you discover quickly that they only think you have that right as long as your speech in totally in lockstep with their own. The slightest deviation from their beliefs and then your right to free speech is either limited or quickly terminated. Of course you see this most often by those that publicly offer up their intense loathing of their country, so the behavior should not be all that surprising. Since they can’t actually understand what it means to hold sacred the ideals of a country that they publicly despise, what you see is all that you can expect from them. That should not, however, afford them any opportunity to hinder the rights of others to state their beliefs.

On another point - I am confused by what many refer to here as a ‘personal attack.’ If I accuse you of coming here to hawk your wares in a less than honest fashion, without any proof to back up my claim, THAT is a personal attack. If I have proof that others agree with, then I’m simply stating a fact, whether you feel attacked, or not. If I have not said or done something that could be injurious to your bank account, placed you under scrutiny by your local child welfare agency or gotten you fired from your job, then you have not been personally attacked. I’ve only said something that may have wounded your pride or delicate sensibilities. Butch up, Loretta. You’ll live and you are probably bestowing entirely too much importance upon my words. Do you actually care that much as to what I have to say? That’s funny because although I may consciously choose to waste a few minutes of my time to engage you on a given topic, at the end of the day I really couldn’t give a hairy rat’s behind what you think, feel, say or do any virtually any subject in the world. Why would I and why should I? It doesn’t intimately effect my life or my world. Your spouting-off is nothing more than your thoughts on any subject at any point on any given day. The same holds true for my rants. They mean virtually nothing. They are, for all intents and purpose, totally meaningless in the grand scheme of life.

There are a few people here that after watching the way that they conduct themselves, and not just in the OT, that I have come to hold in extremely high regard and who’s opinion I value and although it’s an rare anomaly, that also includes their opinion of me (yes, I’m actually human and this only applies to those that I have come to respect. The rest of you can go screw). When one of them will PM me and tell me that they felt that I made a personal attack on someone, I will devote an inordinate amount of introspection to that occurrence in an all out effort to discern the actual likelihood of their observation being accurately construed. In the few instances where that scenario has arisen, what I have eventually deduced is that they are simply much kinder, gentler and well-reasoned individuals than I can ever dream of being concerning the instance in question. Additionally, it is disturbing to realize that they start to form an opinion of you based on your comments when in actuality they should view the action only within the context of the isolated incident.

So, yes - it’s obvious that many here only have a complaint with political posts once they veer from their own way of thinking. I’m no brain trust but a lot of what I read here is deeply disappointing. I don’t have to agree with anyone to acknowledge the fact that they are firm in how they present their points, will at least display a modicum of respect for your strongly held beliefs and are able to go mano a mano (sorry, ladies) without having to go crying to the Mods every time someone post something they don’t agree with and are willing to label it in a way to bolster their outrage. What a bunch of wimps. Oh, wait - is that a personal attack? Maybe on a kindergarten playground, but it shouldn’t be here.

Ya know, I get disgusted and actually feel like puking when I have to listen to the America haters go on and on about everything that is so incredibly wrong with this country. It’s the ‘taker’s,’ the folks who actually think that they deserve a living wage, the unions, the teachers, every branch of government, the Kenyan president trying to fundamentally change America when he’s not apologizing for everything we have ever done and so on and so on. I sit and read this crap every single day, though it is oftentimes couched in code. But the bottom line is that as a veteran I will defend anyone’s right to say anything they want about any aspect of our country’s place in the world and their beliefs about their own place in our country, because THAT is what freedom means. While their words sicken me and make me feel extremely sorry for them, I would never do anything to stop them from stating their point of view. I also think that it’s a good thing that they, through their own volition, publicly out themselves so others will know what type of people they truly are. Yet, if I make a statement as to what type of person I believe them to be, respect for my freedom flies out the window. How can someone use the word ‘libbie’ but if I use the word ‘crud’ I am somehow making a personal attack on someone? I just don’t get that. I might take just as much offense to being called a ‘libbie’ because I know how denigrating the hurler wants that word to be with all that it means to them, as they might not like being called ‘crud.’ Why is one allowed and not the other? Who holds the rulebook on which words are socially acceptable and how much do I need to PayPal to get my authorized copy? Why is one taken as perfectly acceptable and the other as a ‘personal attack?

That, simply put, is a cruddy way to run a forum. No ‘personal attack’ intended.

Cheers. - Frank

P.S. For the record, outside of 5 AM SPAM, I have never reported any post by anyone. Additionally, I have never actually called anyone here, 'crud,' although I oftentimes find myself wishing that I had. lol

I expect this post to be visible for around 10 minutes, tops and you can PM for entrance into the pool that I have formed to lay bets on who will be the first to report it? lol

Nor does it mean we automatically treat them with suspicion and turn them away. Especially if walking in unarmed with their daughter.

It would be just as easy to post as examples the names of the 9/11 hijackers, the Boston bombers, those Americans fighting for ISIS, etc. But I guarantee you there isn't a policy to turn away Muslims at the door who are wearing turbans or burkas. I can understand where some might find them just as scary and offensive, especially when cherry picking examples.

Let's not forget that the security guard was also in uniform. There are more than enough examples of security cops gone wild to warrant the same fears.

There are no easy answers, no cookie-cutter solutions. In a perfect world, respect for others would be the default position. Personally, I think we've gone too far down the rabbit hole for that to ever be a reality. But it should be something we strive towards.

The concerns you and others raised are legitimate, but I think the default position for those who serve in uniform should be respect, whether they be military or police. We actually used to teach that in school. Yes, there will always be the bad ones, and they should be removed as soon as possible. Unfortunately, some will always fall through the cracks, no matter what safeguards are in place. But if we ever get to the point where that respect is completely lost, then we have lost.

I agree. Unless it can be shown that he did this out of spite or his own personal bias, which I doubt, I don't see anything that amounts to a terminable offense. To his credit, he at least gave Baker phone numbers to call so that someone above him could make the final decision (although I do think the guard should have made the call himself). Baker made at least one call and was promptly escorted inside. Swift apologies followed. Done deal.

Many in the African cichlid community do get quite anal, but the fish stores, breeders and customers I worked with loved my lines so all was good in my small part of the world.

Yeah, Corys are quite a bit different in that regard. Lake Malawi cichlids are known to hybridize in nature, and that single lake is filled with over 1,000 species of cichlids. That's a lot of different species of cichlids, to say the least.

With Africans cichlids it's generally the colors that are you shooting for. But, as I will show you below, I did get into producing some very dark gold OB's that had some beautiful "extra" finnage.

Whoaa.... I am having a hard time believing you admitted it. I don't know if you want public congrats but you get them from me.

Very nice, the OB's below I would sell for $19-29 wholesale and $29-$39 retail. Nothing spectacular, but good weekend pops. These 3 to 4 inch long mouthbrooders would deliver 35-55 viable fish per brood if I was doing my job well. Generally speaking, I would keep 3 or 4 top males and 6-10 females of this species to do the dirty work for me.

Hahaha. I know where you are coming from...

A very nice photo and the fins are pretty incredible.

I hear you, believe me I do.

My OB's drew praise because I could produce a richer gold color than most (OB's are usually more yellowish) and I could still get a nice metallic blue on the males. I apologize for the lowish qualtiy of the pix below...they are circa 2002 and overly compressed at that.

Here is one of my the extra rich golds with extra finnage. Those fins are probably 15-30% larger than normal. Not a ton extra, but definitely enough to notice.



Here is one of my males with a nice metallic sheen and some of that rich gold behind the gill, but with no extra finnage.



I finally have started breeding a few fish again, but I only have maybe 20 adults and 50 fry on hand at the moment. It's a complete restart for me, but it's about time I got the operation going again. However it's gonna be a very slow start since I have sold off all of my lines, tanks and gear. I use to have a stocking level of somewhere near 1500, so this will obviously be just a hobby for a while.

Cheers

-don

Don,
Honest to goodness, even crazy ones I saw I figured Paul and the Mods would take care of it. Maybe that is being lackadaisical on my part.

Your probably right I should have been more pro-active.

However, I still did not understand the thing about reporting Threads because someone has too much of a political rant or slant or whatever ??

I mean I have several times confronted people person to person about things like exhibiting negative Racist overtones. But I NEVER once thought about reporting it. ( And I am talking about real racist remarks)

That is just not my nature.

I'm more mano y mano

I respectfully disagree. Some kid making a face at a 4 year old is done and gone in that moment. Nonsense and stuff that crosses the line that is posted on a popular forum can remain highly visible on the internet basically in perpetude. The forum members and the forum itself does not need this sort of nonsense. Some folks want to have a civil discussion, but often times political and religious discussions can take a turn for the worse.

I have mentioned this before but I will say it again, the mods need help catching posts in the wrong forums, they need help identifying and stopping piracy to protect their members, they need help stopping the sig exposure spammers etc. etc. etc. Obviously Thomas knew a bit about forum behavior and it's why he posted the no country bashing, no politics, no religious discussions rule that is not being strictly enforced today. Too much hate is exposed and posted, especially when someone set in their positions decides to start calling entire segments of the population racist etc etc.

If nobody reported anything, or most of the members did not "sorta" follow the rules this place would be a full blown blood bath.

This is a huge member moderated forum and the bottom line is this forum needs it's members to report posts that cross the line or break the rules.

You may disagree, but as a forum owner of an intense political forum back in the day I know as well as anyone that moderators can use some help moderating a busy forum, and some ground rules need to laid to keep the forum from becoming a full blown free-for-all.

If everyone debated honestly it would be one thing, but reality says that's not always what happens. Obviously if members can be banned for crossing the line, and Paul has said he has banned many members for crossing the line, then obviously some stuff is not allowed here.

Don't let members get under your skin and take a ban. Just ignore the thread if it's not a topic you want to discuss. If you enjoy the topic but a member crosses a line or breaks the rules to the point of it making you angry then report the post.

Cheers

-don