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Imagine, 6 years ago when I first came to this forum, I had acted responsibly. Didn't act like a horses ass, was helpful to other members, made friends in the industry, kept up with the Google changes and adjusted accordingly.

Imagine that 8 years later I was somebody who people respected and wanted to help in the event that things had gone sour anyway.

Today, hanging onto the last glimmer of hope that I had, a gentleman who I was hoping to JV with in creating synth patches told me flat out that my work wasn't good enough to sell on his site. This after putting every ounce of my heart and soul into making these the best synth patches I could.

My dance exercise package was ill conceived from the get go. I really didn't know who my target market was and still don't.

My royalty free site, also a disaster. I've been told by many people that my music is horrible and laughable that I would expect people to pay for it or to pay me to do custom work for them. And so far, after 8 1/2 months of that site being online, with more than 5,000 tracks, I've made all of $4.

I can only think, when Suzanne reminded me of how I jumped all over a member here for PM'ing me, because I was too good and high and mighty for anybody to PM me, even though all he wanted to do was talk about my music, that maybe this is all my bad karma coming back to bite me because these past 14 months I have spent more money on my "business" (over 10 grand) and have worked harder than ever in my life, even when I was making money hand over fist, and have close to nothing to show for it.

And all of this could have been avoided by doing nothing more but being a decent human being and not be nasty to people just because they didn't agree with something I said or did and criticized me for it.

Had I done that one simple thing, you don't think I'd have a ton of Warriors rallying around me to help me out?

It's almost like I wanted to fail and by alienating everybody around me, that's exactly what would happen.

Yep, a real self fulfilling prophesy.

Right now, I don't have one solid business model. But I sure as hell better find one. And it's obvious by now that I can't rely on my musical skill to get one. As much as I enjoy it, I'm just not good enough at any one aspect of it.

I'm honestly more lost now than I've been since 2003 when I first started online and didn't have a clue. In 4 months I made all of $28 from taking online surveys. Finally in May of that year I stumbled onto something. It was dumb luck, that's all. Nothing to do with smarts. Because if I had smarts, real smarts, I wouldn't be where I am today...broke, desperate and scared shitless.

I don't have a mom to turn to anymore and my dad walked out on me 51 years ago. My wife supports the hell out of me but that can only take me so far. She can't do the work for me. She has her own headaches with he teaching job, which thank God is her last year and then she's retiring.

I have no idea what my future looks like but I do know this much.

It's brighter than the poor Illinois news anchor who announced on the air that he has a brain tumor and has 4 to 6 months to live.

That report put things into perspective for me and made me realize that, relatively speaking, I have no problems.

I'm not looking for sympathy and I'm sure not looking for help in building a business as I've burned almost every bridge that I built here. I thank the few who have still stuck by me, though quite honestly, I don't deserve it. I have acted badly, especially lately.

But if it's any consolation to those of you who have literally wished I'd leave this forum and never come back, it's all coming back to bite me on the ass. Everyone I have contacted for help in establishing some kind of business venture has either not responded or told me that they can't help me. Today's disappointment shouldn't have come as any surprise. And this was a guy who didn't know me, didn't know I could be a jackass and simply said no because my work wasn't good enough.

On Monday I'm going to look at my to-do list and see what I can salvage.

Anyway, that's it.

Yeah, karma is a real bitch.

Imagine if I didn't have to worry about it.
  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
    Banned
    Steven, I think you are better off showing people through actions. You keep saying the same stuff but end up falling into the same routines.

    Just some helpful advice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

      Steven, I think you are better off showing people through actions. You keep saying the same stuff but end up falling into the same routines.

      Just some helpful advice.
      Know what Thomas? I'm obviously not capable of doing that because I keep doing the same shit over and over for 8 years now. So maybe I need professional help as others have suggested and some flat out saying it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Know what Thomas? I'm obviously not capable of doing that because I keep doing the same shit over and over for 8 years now. So maybe I need professional help as others have suggested and some flat out saying it.
        I don't think so, hitting bottom will be a great attitude adjustment.

        I honestly don't think you had hit bottom until possibly now. Before you were set on doing what you wanted to do.

        That wasn't the bottom if you felt like you had a choice.

        Hitting the bottom is more about doing whatever you need to do in order to survive.

        You may be there now and it isn't a bad thing because you may end up being a lot more successful simply because the ego isn't as important as food and shelter.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

          I don't think so, hitting bottom will be a great attitude adjustment.

          I honestly don't think you had hit bottom until possibly now. Before you were set on doing what you wanted to do.

          That wasn't the bottom if you felt like you had a choice.

          Hitting the bottom is more about doing whatever you need to do in order to survive.

          You may be there now and it isn't a bad thing because you may end up being a lot more successful simply because the ego isn't as important as food and shelter.
          While you're probably right, it would really help if I had a freaking clue what to do with my life right now. I honestly don't. Everything I have tried the last 14 months has produced $4 in income. I have never been so lost and I honestly don't know where to start on Monday when I get back to work.

          So yeah, while I may have hit bottom, I'm still no better off until I can somehow come up with something that at least gives me some kind of income, just to get some confidence back.

          That's how lost I am.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            While you're probably right, it would really help if I had a freaking clue what to do with my life right now. I honestly don't. Everything I have tried the last 14 months has produced $4 in income. I have never been so lost and I honestly don't know where to start on Monday when I get back to work.

            So yeah, while I may have hit bottom, I'm still no better off until I can somehow come up with something that at least gives me some kind of income, just to get some confidence back.

            That's how lost I am.
            You ran into the same type of problem I did. I was working on a big project that just drained me, financially. So I had to come up with a plan on making more money so I can finish up the big project.

            Programming doesn't pay my bills. Selling my programs does. So the more programming I do the less I make.

            So I had to take a step back and figure out some faster cash sources.

            I still fell into a trap when one project took a lot longer than anticipted but it's working. I am close to getting things back on track.

            I would suggest you doing something similar. Putting together a smaller package that can be done within a few weeks. Maybe a PLR package with complete sales funnels (sales page, graphics, emails, videos with some of your music) and sell it in the WSO forum.

            I'm just brainstorming here but there is no reason not to use the resources you have available (the WSO section being one of them) to bring in cash now. You can always do some freelancing for higher pay to some of those PLR customers.

            Plus, making some sales, any sales, will build up your confidence. It's weird, but there is a momentum that comes when you see some success that can be built upon.

            You do enough stuff like that, something will pop in that head of yours that will help you work out more long term goals. The big thing right now is cashflow so you need to do whatever you can to bring it in.

            My opinion of course.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              You ran into the same type of problem I did. I was working on a big project that just drained me, financially. So I had to come up with a plan on making more money so I can finish up the big project.

              Programming doesn't pay my bills. Selling my programs does. So the more programming I do the less I make.

              So I had to take a step back and figure out some faster cash sources.

              I still fell into a trap when one project took a lot longer than anticipted but it's working. I am close to getting things back on track.

              I would suggest you doing something similar. Putting together a smaller package that can be done within a few weeks. Maybe a PLR package (sales page, graphics, emails) and sell it within the WSO forum.

              I'm just brainstorming here but there is no reason not to use the resource you have available (the WSO section being one of them) to bring in cash now. You can always do some freelancing for higher paid to some of those PLR customers.

              You do enough stuff like that, something will pop in that head of yours that will help you work out more long term goals. The big thing right now is cashflow so you need to do whatever you can to bring it in.

              My opinion of course.
              Okay, let's brainstorm as you say.

              What are my skills and how good are they? Quality of the skill is important as just because I can do something doesn't mean it will make me money if it's not of at least a respectable level.

              My skills:

              1) I can write articles, autoresponders, etc. Marketing related content.

              2) I can write music

              3) I can program synth patches

              4) I can make Easy Sketch Pro videos as they're relatively easy.

              Okay, let's see what I can do with each one in regard to putting together a WSO. I have enough money in my PayPal account to run 3 WSOs.

              Content Writing:

              Well, I guess I could put together a package of articles for a specific niche. In order to give that package the best chance of selling I would have to do the following:

              a) Find out what the top niches are that people are looking for articles for.
              b) See what the competition is offering here so I can beat or at least match the offer.

              Same thing with autoresponders. Find out what people are looking for and what the competition is offering.

              Music Writing:

              Put together the best musical tracks I can. Allow prospects to hear samples of the music so they can make an informed decision about purchasing. Before doing this, I'd have to do the following research:

              a) Find out what kind of music people on the marketplace are looking for.
              b) See what the competition is offering so I can beat or at least match the offer.

              Synth Patches:

              There is probably no market here. I will have to look outside of this forum, aside from the person I approached, and see if I can find somebody interested in what I've already done.

              Easy Sketch Pro Videos:

              I think they may be a market here. I see lots of sales pages with these videos now. I could run a WSO offering maybe 5 people custom videos with my own music in the background.

              The only thing I would need to sell this, after researching to see that there is indeed a market, is samples of my work. That means I would have to create a number of videos to post at the WSO as samples. I've created two already but I will probably need more.

              And of course, I would have to comb the WSO forum to see if anybody is already offering this service.

              Finally, if all of these show the potential to be viable, which one do I choose? Do I go with the one that will take me the least amount of time to put together or do I go with the one that shows the most income potential?

              And then of course I have to try to accurately evaluate my skills in each of these areas. Something I seem to have a lot of trouble doing.

              There is my thought process.

              Have I missed anything?
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                Banned
                Definitely do your research but I can see something like this working quite nice.

                Brainstorming wise:

                PLR Limited Package for a higher price.

                Ebook
                Video Course (Powerpoint with music)
                Sales page (Easy Sketch video with music)
                Upsell page for video course.
                Optin page (Easy Sketch video with music)
                Autoresponder sequence for affiliate products within same niche.
                Mindmap
                Graphics (try bartering this for some music or a copy of the plr)
                Throw in a couple of different music tracks so they can make it more unique.

                Look at Tiffany's stuff and see what she is selling. I think she mainly does PLR stuff still.

                Looks pretty dam good product wise and you have the skills to pull it off without taking months to do it. You can break that package up into a front end (optin, sales page an ebook) and a oto (video course, oto sales page, autoresponders, mindmap).
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                  Definitely do your research but I can see something like this working quite nice.

                  Brainstorming wise:

                  PLR Limited Package for a higher price.

                  Ebook
                  Video Course (Powerpoint with music)
                  Sales page (Easy Sketch video with music)
                  Upsell page for video course.
                  Optin page (Easy Sketch video with music)
                  Autoresponder sequence for affiliate products within same niche.
                  Mindmap
                  Graphics (try bartering this for some music or a copy of the plr)
                  Throw in a couple of different music tracks so they can make it more unique.

                  Look at Tiffany's stuff and see what she is selling. I think she mainly does PLR stuff still.

                  Looks pretty dam good product wise and you have the skills to pull it off without taking months to do it. You can break that package up into a front end (optin, sales page an ebook) and a oto (video course, oto sales page, autoresponders, mindmap).
                  This looks like a solid idea and it's not unlike things I actually used to do.

                  Here's my question, and I think it's a valid one.

                  For what niche?

                  It used to be I could put this together with no problem for the "make money" niche because I actually knew how to make money online and could give people great content on how to go about doing it.

                  Since that is not an option, as I am no longer making money online, what niche do I use to create all that content for? It would have to be one that is in demand so that people will actually use the PLR material to either resell or, at the very least, use to build their own business.

                  The niche would have to be one that I am knowledgeable about or we're still talking about a considerable amount of research in order to create this package. I need this product to be good quality so that...

                  1) I don't get slammed with refunds

                  2) I can generate a following as somebody who produces quality PLR material.

                  Does this make sense to you?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    For what niche?
                    Steven, rather than venture down another rabbit hole and get mired in ever-increasing detail, here's a simple plan you can start now (this has probably already been suggested in one of the several threads discussing your business options, but anyhoo...):

                    Write articles for money.

                    Put ads in the Warriors for Hire section, at Freelancer.com and eLance.com. Set up a simple website and post a bunch of your existing articles so that folks can see what they're like. You'll get recommendations from other Warriors - and you'll get business.

                    Work on this for eight hours a day, five days a week - that's less time than you spend on work now - and you'll soon be earning $20 per hour. Even if you only managed half of that to begin with, that's still $1,600 per month.

                    You can do it. All it takes is a little research on the subjects you don't know. You'll find the actual writing a breeze.

                    As you get used to it, you'll start to get more and more ideas of your own. Perhaps a PLR business. Or maybe you'll discover a niche that excites you and sets you off in that direction. Whatever. You'll be earning money and you might stop feeling sorry for yourself.

                    What have I missed?


                    Frank
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                      Steven, rather than venture down another rabbit hole and get mired in ever-increasing detail, here's a simple plan you can start now (this has probably already been suggested in one of the several threads discussing your business options, but anyhoo...):

                      Write articles for money.

                      Put ads in the Warriors for Hire section, at Freelancer.com and eLance.com. Set up a simple website and post a bunch of your existing articles so that folks can see what they're like. You'll get recommendations from other Warriors - and you'll get business.

                      Work on this for eight hours a day, five days a week - that's less time than you spend on work now - and you'll soon be earning $20 per hour. Even if you only managed half of that to begin with, that's still $1,600 per month.

                      You can do it. All it takes is a little research on the subjects you don't know. You'll find the actual writing a breeze.

                      As you get used to it, you'll start to get more and more ideas of your own. Perhaps a PLR business. Or maybe you'll discover a niche that excites you and sets you off in that direction. Whatever. You'll be earning money and you might stop feeling sorry for yourself.

                      What have I missed?


                      Frank
                      Question Frank. Would giving prospects a link to my EZA account to see the 3,000 articles that I've already written constitute as a "site?" If so, that would be very easy and require no additional setup of virtual real estate on my part.

                      Of course I do have my "Natures Healing" health site with over 100 articles on it. I could send prospects there. So that's an option.

                      Does anybody know what it costs to put an ad in the Warriors for hire section? Is it the same as a WSO? I'm assuming yes since it seems most stuff around here is $20.

                      This is definitely a doable idea Frank
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                      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
                        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                        Question Frank. Would giving prospects a link to my EZA account to see the 3,000 articles that I've already written constitute as a "site?" If so, that would be very easy and require no additional setup of virtual real estate on my part.
                        Of course I do have my "Natures Healing" health site with over 100 articles on it. I could send prospects there. So that's an option.
                        Does anybody know what it costs to put an ad in the Warriors for hire section? Is it the same as a WSO? I'm assuming yes since it seems most stuff around here is $20.
                        This is definitely a doable idea Frank
                        I would choose a selection of articles across a range of topics and put them on a simple WP site - or even a Blogger blog if you have to. You could always link to your EZA articles from the site, but having a dedicated place for your existing work will look more professional. While you're putting that together, your nature site would be okay if it means you could get started immediately.

                        As far as I know, a WFH listing is $20.

                        ..
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                        • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
                          Steve, I know that you have probably taken a dislike to me due to our arguments about classical music but I am not your father. (deep breathing sound effect)

                          I am an ex drummer who narrowly missed being in Gary Numan's backing band. I have produced several hours of new age music and backing tracks myself and sold a few hundred cassettes of them. I know when I do something is good to my satisfaction. I'm not out to prove it to anyone else but if I do get some recognition or sales then great, but it was not my prime concern.

                          It is obvious that your number one passion was to make music and become successful at it wether it be compositions, samples or patches.. And, because of that you tried to sell it and got hammered by either the failure of your own site or the rejection of others to sell it for you.

                          Your not sounding to me like you want to write articles or do IM in your heart of hearts. But if you do it's just a way to put bread on the table. You want to participate in the music making process.

                          Are you getting it now? You have by your own admission, thousands of dollars worth of equipment and software, You have expertise in both playing instruments and mixing tracks and you like or liked helping people.

                          I have a dream, Wagenheim in his element, recording bands music, helping them and getting paid for the studio time and mixing.

                          Just a thought!
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                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                            Steve, I know that you have probably taken a dislike to me due to our arguments about classical music but I am not your father. (deep breathing sound effect)

                            I am an ex drummer who narrowly missed being in Gary Numan's backing band. I have produced several hours of new age music and backing tracks myself and sold a few hundred cassettes of them. I know when I do something is good to my satisfaction. I'm not out to prove it to anyone else but if I do get some recognition or sales then great, but it was not my prime concern.

                            It is obvious that your number one passion was to make music and become successful at it wether it be compositions, samples or patches.. And, because of that you tried to sell it and got hammered by either the failure of your own site or the rejection of others to sell it for you.

                            Your not sounding to me like you want to write articles or do IM in your heart of hearts. But if you do it's just a way to put bread on the table. You want to participate in the music making process.

                            Are you getting it now? You have by your own admission, thousands of dollars worth of equipment and software, You have expertise in both playing instruments and mixing tracks and you like or liked helping people.

                            I have a dream, Wagenheim in his element, recording bands music, helping them and getting paid for the studio time and mixing.

                            Just a thought!
                            Ian, for the record, no dislike here. There's not enough history between us.

                            Your dream is nice and I'd love it, but my home studio, which is my living room, can't fit a band and I don't have money to rent studio time. It's a nice dream but not at all practical.

                            You are right. I don't really want to write articles or do any of that other stuff, but when Monday comes I'm going to have to sit down and decide on something to do. That decision, logically, should be made on what is most viable.

                            As to what "most viable" means, I have to decide if that means...

                            what will make me the most money
                            what will take the least amount of time
                            what will be most in demand

                            Or any number of questions that I don't have the answers to because I can't do everything. I have to pick something and stick to it with the understanding that it might not work out.

                            So the first thing I have to do is define what "most viable" is.

                            And right now, I don't have a clue.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                              So the first thing I have to do is define what "most viable" is.

                              And right now, I don't have a clue.
                              The one that has the most potential to start making you money today, tomorrow at latest. That one.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Midnight Oil
                            Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

                            I have a dream, Wagenheim in his element, recording bands music, helping them and getting paid for the studio time and mixing.
                            Steve, well worth writing down and sticking it where you always see it.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                              Question Frank. Would giving prospects a link to my EZA account to see the 3,000 articles that I've already written constitute as a "site?"
                              I wouldn't do that. It's not professional, and with that many articles you might just be encouraging them to take what they like and post them with or without credit to you.

                              Frank and Kurt both gave you some good idea. The articles would probably get you money the fastest. You could do that for immediate income and then work on something else after you're done writing for the day.

                              I thought Kurt's idea about a Udemy course was solid, as was his ideas about what to do with your music site.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                    Banned
                    The only PLR I do is software and that tends to be more evergreen stuff. I avoid stuff that changes every day or week like the facebook scraper stuff.

                    You will have to do research.

                    The WSO forum is at your disposal and I would search out people who have already made a name for themselves selling PLR.

                    Once you get a type of package that sales, then rinse and repeat with different topics.

                    Develop a system for research/development and your next products will be quicker and quicker. If you focus only on products, such as this, you will get really good at figuring out what sells and very fast at developing it.

                    As usual, it takes practice.
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              • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
                Steve,

                You could always do what millions of other folk do - get a regular job. It may not be what you want or like, but it pays the bills. You've still got evenings and days off to work on, and earn from your writing, etc.

                I've seen you have run-ins and arguments with many on here, the vast majority of whom were simply trying to help. We've all got problems, some a whole lot worse than yours. But we don't all come on the forum spouting gazillions of words, and constantly bemoaning our misfortune in life . . . expecting some magic solution or someone to bail us out. We just get on with it.

                You've obviously got a talent for writing. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                  You've obviously got a talent for writing. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
                  I believe that is exactly what he's doing. We can help him with some brainstorming or we can just tell him to DO SOMETHING.

                  Which do you think will be more helpful?
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

                  Steve,

                  You could always do what millions of other folk do - get a regular job. It may not be what you want or like, but it pays the bills. You've still got evenings and days off to work on and earn from your writing, etc.

                  I've seen you have run-ins and arguments with many on here, the vast majority of whom were simply trying to help. We've all got problems, some a whole lot worse than yours. But we don't all come on the forum spouting gazillions of words, and constantly bemoaning our misfortune in life . . . expecting some magic solution or someone to bail us out. We just get on with it.

                  You've obviously got a talent for writing. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
                  If you read my brainstorming post somewhere in this mess, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I can write. I just have to find a market to fill with my writing skill. So thank you for the advice.

                  Yes, I am going to, as you say, get on with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Ok ... the music fell through. You were successful in the IM industry and could be again, probably easily if you just tweak your model to get around the pounding that you got from Google. Others have made adjustments. You can too. You have thousands of articles that are pretty much worthless on Ezine. I checked some of them out for duplication and found that there were a good number out of the ones I checked that hadn't been duplicated. Takes those off ezine and put them to use elsewhere, whether it's making PLR packages or using them on a blog in the same way you used them on Ezine.

    I don't know enough about your music to advise you there, but if it's not what people want, I don't know if you can make it what people want. But people always want content. Your Niche Revolution was a good idea. Revamp that. Do several things. One basket is very high risk.
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  • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
    Hey Steve, take a deep breath. It sounds to me like you need to do some marketing. Maybe back off a bit on the creativity end and get some solid chops on the marketing end and learn about ways to use social media, blogs, free traffic, etc.

    One or even a few prospective customers do not make or define the market. Everyone has different tastes and some will love your stuff while others will not. You can't please everyone and should not permit that feedback to define what you can or can't do.

    On the other hand, if you need a break, get a part-time W-2 job while you learn marketing and continue part-time with what you love doing creating. It could give you a new perspective and some breathing room.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    The internet is a fast moving place. You literally have to throw hands full of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Spending too much time on one concept only to have it fail can be demoralizing and debilitating. Don't let this punch in the gut keep you from trying new things. You can still literally turn it all around over night if you hit on the right niche at the right time. But if you decide to spend a lot of time on one project again, maybe try and break away an hour or two per day to try new things. Many times the things that will make me the most money are those that I think are the least likely to succeed. You do have to know when to cut your losses and move on though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      The internet is a fast moving place. You literally have to throw hands full of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Spending too much time on one concept only to have it fail can be demoralizing and debilitating. Don't let this punch in the gut keep you from trying new things. You can still literally turn it all around over night if you hit on the right niche at the right time. But if you decide to spend a lot of time on one project again, maybe try and break away an hour or two per day to try new things. Many times the things that will make me the most money are those that I think are the least likely to succeed. You do have to know when to cut your losses and move on though.
      Gary, that's just it. I haven't been working on just one thing. Since July of last year, I have worked on the following major projects, all of them failing or being ill conceived from the get go.

      1) Royalty Free Music Site - I spent $10,000 on hardware and software. Hired a web designer to build my site. Created 5,000 plus tracks for the site. Put up a link for custom work. Put up a link to a newsletter to get updates.

      To date, have made $4 and have no subscribers. The site is a total disaster.

      2) Synth Patch Creation - Relatively new but so far being discouraged at every turn. In a nutshell, my patches are not "current." I'm stuck in the 80s and nobody wants those sounds anymore and I honestly don't relate to the "new" music. I'll keep at this though. I think I can find a market. But so far, no luck.

      3) Easy Sketch Pro Business - Have contacted the creator of the software to try to work out something together. So far, no response.

      4) Exercise Dance Package - This was my ill conceived idea as I really had no idea who I was targeting. I've been given excellent advice from Rick Duris on how to "possibly" salvage this but that's going to take months of research to find a market and won't give me an income for some time.

      So as you can see, I've tried a lot of different things in the last 14 months. I'm back to working 14 hour days. In fact, I've been working harder these past 14 months than in the 8 years prior.

      Point is, this hasn't been a problem with putting all my eggs into one basket. Everything I've tried has, so far anyway, produced no results.
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    Steve,

    You obviously seem to think writing articles for money is beneath you, or at the very least you don't want to trade time for money.

    Why don't you build an agency, so put in the man hours now and start hiring people when you're making decent money?

    Then you can be the puppet master.

    I would forget about music and stick to it as a hobby. I know people who've been in the game for decades as popular DJs in a big city and they still work in coffee shops during the day.

    Start from the ground up instead of trying to build the roof without the foundations in place.

    This is actually a very good article that might help with your marketing - How to Write Blog Posts That Generate Leads
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Gary, that's just it. I haven't been working on just one thing. Since July of last year, I have worked on the following major projects, all of them failing or being ill conceived from the get go.

    1) Royalty Free Music Site - I spent $10,000 on hardware and software. Hired a web designer to build my site. Created 5,000 plus tracks for the site. Put up a link for custom work. Put up a link to a newsletter to get updates.


    To date, have made $4 and have no subscribers. The site is a total disaster.

    If it's a "total disaster", then you have nothing to lose. Take 10% of your songs (500") and make them free and add Adsense to the pages. The site should have been set up in a way you could turn it "inside out", which is an old SEO term that means being able to create search engine readable pages from a database. Still a very powerful strategy. But the problem is, few web designers understand advanced SEO techniques.


    Next, take the remaining 4500 songs and put them in a private membership site "All you can download for $17": Offer affiliates 100% and use it to build a list. These people will be interested in anything video related. And at 100% commisions, you will be much more likely to get affiliates.

    You can also exploit retargeting on the site and try some ads for video related affiliate programs.




    [3) Easy Sketch Pro Business - Have contacted the creator of the software to try to work out something together. So far, no response.
    Forget about it. You don't have the skills or talent to sell videos. You will never sell videos based on the examples in your sig, or what I saw of your video work. Move on.

    I can't make music and you can't make videos. No big deal.


    4) Exercise Dance Package - This was my ill conceived idea as I really had no idea who I was targeting. I've been given excellent advice from Rick Duris on how to "possibly" salvage this but that's going to take months of research to find a market and won't give me an income for some time.

    Actually, this was my idea, and it's a solid one. However, it's dependant on many things, such as your sales letter, if people like your songs, etc.

    As far as taking months to find a market, that's BS. As I pointed out in your last thread, you can go to Facebook and place an ad and reach your potential market in an hour or two. However, this is still dependant on your ability to write a FB ad, send people to your sales page and then have customers that like your music.

    Reaching your target audience is easy. In FB, simply target "women that live in California, between 35-50 and like aerobics". You can easily test different demographics. You said you have $60, that's enough for 12 marketing tests of different demographics at $5. Of course, you should spend a week learning all you can about FB ads before trying FB.

    If you can't sell it, give it away in exchange for their email address, then offer articles, info and affiliate offers to your list(s). But at least try.

    You've spent months and months on creating a product, put in little effort actually marketing it.


    So as you can see, I've tried a lot of different things in the last 14 months. I'm back to working 14 hour days. In fact, I've been working harder these past 14 months than in the 8 years prior.

    Point is, this hasn't been a problem with putting all my eggs into one basket. Everything I've tried has, so far anyway, produced no results.
    You can go to any of the article sites like TextBroker and make a little money if desperate, at least enough to raise a few $100 to help pay for things needed for other marketing.

    If you have Camtasia, you can make "how to" videos for all the music software you purchased. You can upload these to Youtube and/or Udemy. I believe I read somewhere that 90% of the courses uploaded to Udemy made at least a little money.

    If you don't have Camtasia, you can use the free version of Active Presenter...It's almost as good as Camtasia. Or, Camtasia has a free 30 day trial.
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    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    Where did you buy $10,000 worth of music equipment?

    If it was a website you might have an advantage over everyone else who tries to throw up affiliate stores.

    Build a store with the products you think will sell and add affiliate links to them.

    You can add sample tracks to your product descriptions to stand out from the crowd who throw up sites without knowing anything about music. Add some videos teaching them how to use the products too and they'll be more likely to buy when they click through your affiliate links

    That way you're still involved in music, you can still make up songs, you can teach people, but you'll be selling physical products people actually buy.

    How long will it take you to set something like this up? A few days if you use WooCommerce and a cheap Ecommerce theme. Maybe a little longer if you make videos.

    How long will it take to validate your idea? Not long if you bang out lots of guest posts on particular blogs and join appropriate forums.

    You don't need to make a million straight away, but if you make some sales within a few weeks you can always scale up. Plus with music there is lots of extras to go along with the actual products (which are probably very expensive).

    That could be your two week plan of action. Sounds like it ticks all the boxes to me and a quick way to validate your idea.

    Still write articles if you need money though.

    Then once you build up decent income move onto dropshipping, Amazon fulfillment, manufacturing your own products? The world is your oyster.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    All those mp3 files in your WP upload folder can easily be downloaded. I've already suggested a few months back in another forum thread you need to do like audiojungle & brand those sample files. If your giving away the files for free it doesn't make any sense to complain about not having sales.

    The site is kind of confusing, there's no need for the splash page on the Home page URL, your forcing traffic to guess what they should do next.

    Do you even know who your target traffic is? Ask yourself why would someone need/buy your product.

    If it was my site I would have went to audiojungle & sorted the pages by highest sales volume, then focused on similar files on my own site. Your most likely spreading yourself too thin on files that don't have traffic.

    BTW, audiojungle best sellers are mostly movie trailer type audio, which can bring in $50,000+ per sales page.

    After reading some of this thread it looks like you've given up & looking for the next thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Imagine, 6 years ago when I first came to this forum, I had acted responsibly. Didn't act like a horses ass, was helpful to other members, made friends in the industry, kept up with the Google changes and adjusted accordingly.

      Imagine that 8 years later I was somebody who people respected and wanted to help in the event that things had gone sour anyway.

      Today, hanging onto the last glimmer of hope that I had, a gentleman who I was hoping to JV with in creating synth patches told me flat out that my work wasn't good enough to sell on his site. This after putting every ounce of my heart and soul into making these the best synth patches I could.

      My dance exercise package was ill conceived from the get go. I really didn't know who my target market was and still don't.

      My royalty free site, also a disaster. I've been told by many people that my music is horrible and laughable that I would expect people to pay for it or to pay me to do custom work for them. And so far, after 8 1/2 months of that site being online, with more than 5,000 tracks, I've made all of $4.

      I can only think, when Suzanne reminded me of how I jumped all over a member here for PM'ing me, because I was too good and high and mighty for anybody to PM me, even though all he wanted to do was talk about my music, that maybe this is all my bad karma coming back to bite me because these past 14 months I have spent more money on my "business" (over 10 grand) and have worked harder than ever in my life, even when I was making money hand over fist, and have close to nothing to show for it.

      And all of this could have been avoided by doing nothing more but being a decent human being and not be nasty to people just because they didn't agree with something I said or did and criticized me for it.

      Had I done that one simple thing, you don't think I'd have a ton of Warriors rallying around me to help me out?

      It's almost like I wanted to fail and by alienating everybody around me, that's exactly what would happen.

      Yep, a real self fulfilling prophesy.

      Right now, I don't have one solid business model. But I sure as hell better find one. And it's obvious by now that I can't rely on my musical skill to get one. As much as I enjoy it, I'm just not good enough at any one aspect of it.

      I'm honestly more lost now than I've been since 2003 when I first started online and didn't have a clue. In 4 months I made all of $28 from taking online surveys. Finally in May of that year I stumbled onto something. It was dumb luck, that's all. Nothing to do with smarts. Because if I had smarts, real smarts, I wouldn't be where I am today...broke, desperate and scared shitless.

      I don't have a mom to turn to anymore and my dad walked out on me 51 years ago. My wife supports the hell out of me but that can only take me so far. She can't do the work for me. She has her own headaches with he teaching job, which thank God is her last year and then she's retiring.

      I have no idea what my future looks like but I do know this much.

      It's brighter than the poor Illinois news anchor who announced on the air that he has a brain tumor and has 4 to 6 months to live.

      That report put things into perspective for me and made me realize that, relatively speaking, I have no problems.

      I'm not looking for sympathy and I'm sure not looking for help in building a business as I've burned almost every bridge that I built here. I thank the few who have still stuck by me, though quite honestly, I don't deserve it. I have acted badly, especially lately.

      But if it's any consolation to those of you who have literally wished I'd leave this forum and never come back, it's all coming back to bite me on the ass. Everyone I have contacted for help in establishing some kind of business venture has either not responded or told me that they can't help me. Today's disappointment shouldn't have come as any surprise. And this was a guy who didn't know me, didn't know I could be a jackass and simply said no because my work wasn't good enough.

      On Monday I'm going to look at my to-do list and see what I can salvage.

      Anyway, that's it.

      Yeah, karma is a real bitch.

      Imagine if I didn't have to worry about it.

      Quite a statement, l know that it takes guts to write something like that, on this forum! After the con-artist scam l recently went through; and yes, financially l am at rock bottom, but slowly digging my way out!

      So l commend you on laying your cards on the table!

      Just like you l don't have much money to throw around, but l do have two good ideas, to pursue.

      Fiverr and Graphicriver, are the ones l am developing!

      Fiverr is showing some results, so it looks promising, but eventhough doing a lot of gigs, for your efforts, is profitable, for me doing a graphics gig, for about $2.50 and hour to $3, is really slave labour levels.

      So, l am moving more into the get $4 send the product!

      So, it can make you some extra cash, but working like a dog, for an indefinate period, is a two edged sword.

      Some manage to get around this, by offering PLR products or gigs that are quick to do.

      But there is no harm in taking a look, might give you some ideas?

      Remember Fiverr is 3 years old, so just like Adwords was when it was just starting, there are opportunities on Fiverr!

      Graphicfiver is more like create a product, have an uphill battle getting it accepted, at least initially then forget about it, and make some money. The reason l mention this is they also sell music tracks, down the bottom of their home page!


      Don't overlook something you haven't tried before, there could be an opportunity there!

      Best of luck!

      Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    I have no idea what my future looks like but I do know this much.

    It's brighter than the poor Illinois news anchor who announced on the air that he has a brain tumor and has 4 to 6 months to live.
    That puts your problems (and probably mine ) into some perspective.

    I know nothing (but nothing!) about your music niche and can never comment about it at all, really, which is why I'm so quiet in your threads, guilty though I always feel about that.

    But I also know plenty of people without your writing skills who are making money through writing. (And so do you.) I am - literally - "just saying".

    I have no idea whether it's either a helpful or even a sensible suggestion, but this little Kindle book was published a few months ago by a guy without your writing skills who can very easily make a couple of thousand per month just writing at Constant-Content, Steven, and I myself know other people doing something similar (who would happily help you, if I just ask them to!): The Freelance Writer's Guide to Making Money on...The Freelance Writer's Guide to Making Money on...

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Okay, I just came up with what I think might be a viable idea. Granted, it's only going to appeal to a small segment of the population looking for royalty free music but it just might bring me in some income.

      Hear me out.

      The 150 tracks that I created for the dance exercise package.

      Rewrite the sales page for the royalty free music niche.

      Take the samples and put them up on my royalty free site for instant download. All 150. Each sample is only 30 seconds. Then tell them if they want the full extended tracks for these (3 minutes in length and over) they can purchase them HERE and give them the link to my new sales page.

      Then take that SAME concept and do it for every genre on my royalty free site.

      Acoustic
      Classical
      Country
      Electronic
      Ethnic
      Jazz
      Latin
      Metal
      Orchestral
      Pop
      Psychedelic
      R&B
      Rock

      I'll look to see what my most played tracks are and start with those genres.

      I'm already getting a steady 500 plus visitors each month and about 100 downloads.

      Even if I just convert at 2%, that's about $60 a month to start until the traffic grows.

      It's about a year and a half of writing and recording music to complete the whole site.

      If I wasn't getting traffic and downloads I wouldn't even consider it. But given that I have some traffic and some people actually like my music (there is no accounting for taste) I think I have a chance to sell some of these packages.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Okay, I just came up with what I think might be a viable idea. Granted, it's only going to appeal to a small segment of the population looking for royalty free music but it just might bring me in some income.

        Hear me out.

        The 150 tracks that I created for the dance exercise package.

        Rewrite the sales page for the royalty free music niche.

        Take the samples and put them up on my royalty free site for instant download. All 150. Each sample is only 30 seconds. Then tell them if they want the full extended tracks for these (3 minutes in length and over) they can purchase them HERE and give them the link to my new sales page.

        Then take that SAME concept and do it for every genre on my royalty free site.

        Acoustic
        Classical
        Country
        Electronic
        Ethnic
        Jazz
        Latin
        Metal
        Orchestral
        Pop
        Psychedelic
        R&B
        Rock

        I'll look to see what my most played tracks are and start with those genres.

        I'm already getting a steady 500 plus visitors each month and about 100 downloads.

        Even if I just convert at 2%, that's about $60 a month to start until the traffic grows.

        It's about a year and a half of writing and recording music to complete the whole site.

        If I wasn't getting traffic and downloads I wouldn't even consider it. But given that I have some traffic and some people actually like my music (there is no accounting for taste) I think I have a chance to sell some of these packages.
        First thought that comes to mind ....

        Today, hanging onto the last glimmer of hope that I had, a gentleman who I was hoping to JV with in creating synth patches told me flat out that my work wasn't good enough to sell on his site. This after putting every ounce of my heart and soul into making these the best synth patches I could.

        My dance exercise package was ill conceived from the get go. I really didn't know who my target market was and still don't.

        My royalty free site, also a disaster. I've been told by many people that my music is horrible and laughable that I would expect people to pay for it or to pay me to do custom work for them. And so far, after 8 1/2 months of that site being online, with more than 5,000 tracks, I've made all of $4.
        Why are you even thinking about the music when you have this response and haven't made any money?

        When you're at the bottom, start at the bottom and do the bottom well. Quite a few people here have suggested that you hire yourself out for content and that you turn some of those ezine articles into plr or build some new plr.

        Others have suggested niche done for you funnel packages, complete with content, autoresponders, etc.

        But go on ... do whatever you really want to do, but I don't see it changing your financial outlook since you've been down this road now for some time.

        If you're really in danger of losing your house, I would also suggest that you get a job. A lot of places hire people your age. They are minimum wage jobs, but they are money on the table.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          First thought that comes to mind ....



          Why are you even thinking about the music when you have this response and haven't made any money?

          When you're at the bottom, start at the bottom and do the bottom well. Quite a few people here have suggested that you hire yourself out for content and that you turn some of those ezine articles into plr or build some new plr.

          Others have suggested niche done for you funnel packages, complete with content, autoresponders, etc.

          But go on ... do whatever you really want to do, but I don't see it changing your financial outlook since you've been down this road now for some time.

          If you're really in danger of losing your house, I would also suggest that you get a job. A lot of places hire people your age. They are minimum wage jobs, but they are money on the table.
          I actually considered the PLR and haven't ruled anything out yet.

          All the PLR I have done prior to this, and it was quite a bit of it, was all "how to make money" PLR where I wrote about things I was actually doing to make money. So repackaging that now would be a bold face lie since I no longer am making money.

          If I write new PLR (would have to be on a different topic altogether) I would first have to decide what kind of PLR I would write. This would need to be based on two things.

          1) What I actually know about and can write about.

          2) What is in demand.

          My knowledge is now limited to the following:

          1) How to write an article
          2) How to write music
          3) How to record music using your PC

          That's it. That's all I'm qualified to write on. Anything else would be a lie.

          Of those 3 things (assuming I am going to utilize the WSO forum) I would have to research to see if any of those were in demand.

          Yes, I could put together a WSO of royalty free music as one person right now has done packaging 79 tracks. He's selling them for about $12 (at present as it's one of those WSOs where the price increases after every sale)

          Even as WSO of the day, it's only gotten about 2,000 views and about 25 comments. I doubt it's made more than 20 to 30 sales, if that. If he makes $500 I think that would be a lot. Granted, right now I will take $500 for a WSO.

          I would need to listen to his tracks to get an idea of the quality. From the comments I've read, I'm going to guess it is better than the quality of my tracks. The sales page, as far as the look, is certainly better than anything I can do as I am no designer. That will be going against me so the track quality will have to speak for itself.

          But by all means, I am open to selling PLR. But what? I don't have a lot of skills and probably not many marketable ones that I could write about.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            I actually considered the PLR and haven't ruled anything out yet.

            All the PLR I have done prior to this, and it was quite a bit of it, was all "how to make money" PLR where I wrote about things I was actually doing to make money. So repackaging that now would be a bold face lie since I no longer am making money.

            If I write new PLR (would have to be on a different topic altogether) I would first have to decide what kind of PLR I would write. This would need to be based on two things.

            1) What I actually know about and can write about.

            2) What is in demand.

            My knowledge is now limited to the following:

            1) How to write an article
            2) How to write music
            3) How to record music using your PC

            That's it. That's all I'm qualified to write on. Anything else would be a lie.

            Of those 3 things (assuming I am going to utilize the WSO forum) I would have to research to see if any of those were in demand.

            Yes, I could put together a WSO of royalty free music as one person right now has done packaging 79 tracks. He's selling them for about $12 (at present as it's one of those WSOs where the price increases after every sale)

            Even as WSO of the day, it's only gotten about 2,000 views and about 25 comments. I doubt it's made more than 20 to 30 sales, if that. If he makes $500 I think that would be a lot. Granted, right now I will take $500 for a WSO.

            I would need to listen to his tracks to get an idea of the quality. From the comments I've read, I'm going to guess it is better than the quality of my tracks. The sales page, as far as the look, is certainly better than anything I can do as I am no designer. That will be going against me so the track quality will have to speak for itself.

            But by all means, I am open to selling PLR. But what? I don't have a lot of skills and probably not many marketable ones that I could write about.

            In the past you've made plenty of money, so I would not rule out making money topics. You can draw from your previous experience. As for topics that people buy, again, look at plrminimart (Tiffany's site) and you can see that all the topics you would write on to provide content to people would most likely require some research. I'm sure that Tiffany is not an expert on everything that she has written about. Notice also the large mega packs she has that involve articles and an ebook or report and sell for last time I looked around $50 or so each copy.

            With the amount of ezine articles you've already written, you could easily remove some of the (batches on a topic at a time) and use them for the base rewrite to make it fresh and new. Be a lot quicker than starting them from scratch, but you have a whole store's worth of articles that you could use.

            For quick cash, you can put a Warriors for Hire thread to develop content for others while you're working on PLR packs.

            Your NR could be revitalized to add a sales funnel, sales page, landing page, autoresponders, keyword research, etc., much like your previous offers, but see if there's anything to add to beef it up. I actually liked the idea of buying little known but possibly lucrative niches.

            All the while, build a list to sell your plr packs to as they are made. Be aware also that most of Tiffany's packs are not limited quantity. She sells them from her site to anyone who will buy them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


              Your NR could be revitalized to add a sales funnel, sales page, landing page, autoresponders, keyword research, etc., much like your previous offers, but see if there's anything to add to beef it up. I actually liked the idea of buying little known but possibly lucrative niches.
              The NR line was my most popular and biggest selling line. Problem was I just plain ran out of ideas and each pack I was making, because my traffic had dried up due to Google, was making me less and less money. I was putting in a week of work for maybe $300. That's why I stopped.

              Granted, in hindsight, and knowing what I know now, $300 a week would be gold for me today and had I known things would get this bad I would have never stopped researching these niches. But like I said, I really wasn't finding anything all that Earth shattering after a while.

              Obviously, if I were to try to revitalize that line I'd have to do a lot of research just to come up with one viable niche.

              The question becomes this. Is that kind of time investment worth it given that I am getting zero traffic to my sites and all my income would be solely reliant on the WSO forum? I think my last NR pack, and this was about 2 years ago I think, only sold about 6 copies. I'm not even sure there would be a market for it today.

              I guess ultimately trying to do at least one and seeing how it goes isn't the end of the world. Worse comes to worse, it totally bombs and I don't do another one and it's only a week or two of my time. So it is a viable possibility and just may lead to something.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                The NR line was my most popular and biggest selling line. Problem was I just plain ran out of ideas and each pack I was making, because my traffic had dried up due to Google, was making me less and less money. I was putting in a week of work for maybe $300. That's why I stopped.

                Granted, in hindsight, and knowing what I know now, $300 a week would be gold for me today and had I known things would get this bad I would have never stopped researching these niches. But like I said, I really wasn't finding anything all that Earth shattering after a while.
                From zero to $300 is big enough for me and a lot of people. It doesn't have to be earth shattering ... just a viable niche. Honestly, these newbie marketers ...some are just pure lazy and some just have no skills to do anything for themselves so anything that smacks of "done for you" is usually a hit if it's something that there's demand for or "viable."

                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Obviously, if I were to try to revitalize that line I'd have to do a lot of research just to come up with one viable niche.

                The question becomes this. Is that kind of time investment worth it given that I am getting zero traffic to my sites and all my income would be solely reliant on the WSO forum? I think my last NR pack, and this was about 2 years ago I think, only sold about 6 copies. I'm not even sure there would be a market for it today.

                I guess ultimately trying to do at least one and seeing how it goes isn't the end of the world. Worse comes to worse, it totally bombs and I don't do another one and it's only a week or two of my time. So it is a viable possibility and just may lead to something.
                The Warrior Forum traffic has been good to me. Offer a product that delivers value and be good to your customers and you don't need Google.

                But you don't have to rely on just the WF. You can host two other sales pages and put a JVZoo button on one and a W+ button on the other. Then proceed very cautiously to approve affiliates from both platforms to help promote your product. You will maybe get some affiliate sales but you will also get some direct sales from the platform. Only 1% of the people you approve will do anything at all, so don't hold your breath waiting for affiliate sales. It's just two more places where you can put your sales page up and both of them don't cost to list. They charge percentage of sales.
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  From zero to $300 is big enough for me and a lot of people. It doesn't have to be earth shattering ... just a viable niche. Honestly, these newbie marketers ...some are just pure lazy and some just have no skills to do anything for themselves so anything that smacks of "done for you" is usually a hit if it's something that there's demand for or "viable."



                  The Warrior Forum traffic has been good to me. Offer a product that delivers value and be good to your customers and you don't need Google.

                  But you don't have to rely on just the WF. You can host two other sales pages and put a JVZoo button on one and a W+ button on the other. Then proceed very cautiously to approve affiliates from both platforms to help promote your product. You will maybe get some affiliate sales but you will also get some direct sales from the platform. Only 1% of the people you approve will do anything at all, so don't hold your breath waiting for affiliate sales. It's just two more places where you can put your sales page up and both of them don't cost to list. They charge percentage of sales.
                  Thank you Suzanne. You've given me some things to think about and work on. And while I in no way deserved your assistance here, I appreciate it.

                  I guess it's like Thomas said. When you finally do hit rock bottom you learn not to act like a horses ass.

                  In the meantime, I've cloned and modified my sales page for the dance tracks and put a link on my royalty free site. It didn't take long at all (about an hour) and as I said, i get 500 unique visitors a month. I'll track to see how many download the 150 free tracks and then out of those how many purchase the full length tracks. I'm not holding my breath for any miracles, but even $100 a month for what now is essentially no additional work would be great. I have nothing to lose by having a link and trying.

                  Tomorrow, I will go through this thread again, take all the suggestions into account, and then pick something to work on. I haven't definitively decided on any one thing as of yet, but one thing is for certain. I can't continue on the path I'm on. My ideas to this point are not producing anything so it's time to go back to what used to work for me and see if I can't salvage something from it. Worst case scenario is that I am no better or worse off than I am now.

                  You really have nothing to lose when you've hit rock bottom.

                  Thank you again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Steven,

      Your definition of "desperate" and my definition seems to have two different meanings.

      Right now, you can go to Textbroker.com and Constant Content (as Alexa pointed out) and make $12-15 per hour. If you don't know about a subject, Google is your friend.

      Grammar is the most important thing at these sites...I think you can handle it. The biggest problem will be there isn't always work. But there's more than enough jobs where you can average $20-30 a day.

      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


      I have no idea whether it's either a helpful or even a sensible suggestion, but this little Kindle book was published a few months ago by a guy without your writing skills who can very easily make a couple of thousand per month just writing at Constant-Content, Steven, and I myself know other people doing something similar (who would happily help you, if I just ask them to!): The Freelance Writer's Guide to Making Money on Constant-Content.com - Kindle edition by Kevin Casey. Reference Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

      .

      Take part of your earnings and invest in some Facebook advertising. It amazes me that you have spent $10,000 on software and hardware, but budgeted ZERO for marketing. What kind of business plan is that?

      At least give the exercise music a chance to fail. You're not even giving it a chance. Budget $300-500 of the money you make from writing articles for FB PPC.

      Worse case scenario is, if you can't sell the music, give it away in exchange for an email address. At least you willl have learned about FB advertising and may be able to sell other products. And FB ads will let you test your offer very quickly.

      In addition to writing for Constant Content and Text Brokers, do as suggested above and offer writing services at the Warrior Forum and sites like Freelancers, as well as some PLR packages. Again, if you don't know about a topic, Google is still your friend.

      There's no reason why you can't make $25 a day in a couple of hours writing and selling articles, starting right now.

      And please stop all these "woe is me" threads, and telling us what you can't do. If you can't do IM or write for others, get a job.
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      • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
        Steve, been thinking about this.

        First I would step back and ask, is, are your samples, patches and compositions. bad, good, ok or great.

        Post or pm me your site address or links to youtube vids, whatever. I would dearly like to listen to some of your stuff. I promise I will be honest. You know what I might find. Your stuff might be just akin to the stuff I like listening too and probably you do too. However, to other younger people, it may just sound dated to them. If that be the case the careful listening and study may be all that's needed to provide people with what they want. This will not detract from me saying, hey, your stuff is good, just not current.

        Lets say you do give up on that though and would like to go for the studio services idea, that means making extra money to get or rent a space, a studio. It's a goal to aim for and a preferable one to have to just carry on with the suggestions above but better if they are a means to an end and not the only thing. Set a new dream or goal.

        I made 6.5 k on fiver with one gig, I had 40 dollar days and a max of 93 dollar days. I would look at fiverr as an option, buy some of the well reviewed WSO's for quick gig ideas and build up a portfolio of gigs. Their is still money to be made their with not much work.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

          Steve, been thinking about this.

          First I would step back and ask, is, are your samples, patches and compositions. bad, good, ok or great.

          Post or pm me your site address or links to youtube vids, whatever. I would dearly like to listen to some of your stuff. I promise I will be honest. You know what I might find. Your stuff might be just akin to the stuff I like listening too and probably you do too. However, to other younger people, it may just sound dated to them. If that be the case the careful listening and study may be all that's needed to provide people with what they want. This will not detract from me saying, hey, your stuff is good, just not current.

          Lets say you do give up on that though and would like to go for the studio services idea, that means making extra money to get or rent a space, a studio. It's a goal to aim for and a preferable one to have to just carry on with the suggestions above but better if they are a means to an end and not the only thing. Set a new dream or goal.

          I made 6.5 k on fiver with one gig, I had 40 dollar days and a max of 93 dollar days. I would look at fiverr as an option, buy some of the well reviewed WSO's for quick gig ideas and build up a portfolio of gigs. Their is still money to be made their with not much work.
          Thanks. I couldn't possibly ask you to listen to my music. There is just too much of it.

          But I can say this much. When I approached the one gentleman about my synth patches he did essentially say that they were dated.

          Hey, I grew up in the 60s and 70s. The synth music I listened to is what I program, more or less. So of course they're dated. I'm out of touch with today's sound. To insist otherwise would be foolish of me. The gentleman sent me YouTube videos of the kinds of pads people today are looking for. I forget the name of the group. But I listened and yes, they sound nothing like the pads I create, though I don't think they're all that amazing. Doesn't matter what I think. It's what people want and if I don't create that sound, I won't make sales.

          Can I recreate that sound? I don't know. Maybe. Never tried so I can't answer that.

          My music is probably just as dated. My orchestral tracks are pretty contemporary as far as "movie score" music goes, but that's just a very select niche and not everybody is looking for that.

          And my most downloaded tracks pretty much confirm this.

          I'm 56 years old. I can't be 26 years old. My mother used to have a saying. "To thine own self be true." I could try to "imitate" the current sounds but it would be like a non English speaking person trying to write articles in English for a "hip" niche that required a lot of slang and coming off sounding authentic.

          If I'm honest with myself, I'm an average writer, producer and performer of music and I think that's being generous. I am certainly not among the elite.

          But I have to do something with my life and if I just limit it to things that I'm great at then I might as well just get a job at a Burger King because I'm not great at anything.

          Is that honest enough?

          I can DO just about anything. I'm the proverbial jack of all trades, master of none person. I have done so many things in my life you wouldn't believe it. I think, more or less, I'm pretty smart or at least adaptable. I can play several musical instruments but none of them really well. I can write just about any kind of music, but none of it really well. I can program any synthesizer in existence, but none of them up to the requirements of the strictest standards.

          I'd make a great assistant to somebody in the music business as I can handle almost any task they'd give me. But assistant jobs just don't fall into your lap. Honestly, I don't even know how to go about getting one or if they even exist.

          Everything I've ever done is self taught, including my home business. I made it on my own and I failed on my own.

          Kurt said that I have no business making videos. Truth is, I have no business doing anything creative because I'm just not professional quality in anything I do. My songwriting evaluations by industry professionals, on a scale of 1 to 10, come out to about a 7.5. Not bad, but just not good enough.

          And that's been the story of my life with everything I've tried to do that has to do with the music business. I've been told I'm close but not there.

          There is such a thing as talent and maybe I only have so much of it. Otherwise don't you think I would have broken into the business by now?

          As far as producing other people's music, again, I'm okay but I have no business charging the kind of fees "working" producers charge. If you hear my recordings you'll see that they're okay but not pro level.

          Nobody is more critical of myself than myself. But I still have to eat so I have to do something with my life.

          Right now I'm just trying to figure out what that something is.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


            Hey, I grew up in the 60s and 70s. The synth music I listened to is what I program, more or less. So of course they're dated. I'm out of touch with today's sound. To insist otherwise would be foolish of me. The gentleman sent me YouTube videos of the kinds of pads people today are looking for. I forget the name of the group. But I listened and yes, they sound nothing like the pads I create, though I don't think they're all that amazing. Doesn't matter what I think. It's what people want and if I don't create that sound, I won't make sales.

            Can I recreate that sound? I don't know. Maybe. Never tried so I can't answer that.

            My music is probably just as dated. My orchestral tracks are pretty contemporary as far as "movie score" music goes, but that's just a very select niche and not everybody is looking for that.

            And my most downloaded tracks pretty much confirm this..
            This is the FOURTH time I've suggested you try Facebook PPC ads, with something like "women over 35, that live in California and like aerobics".

            Notice the "over 35 part"?

            Of course, you're not limited to this age group. You can go older as well as younger. You can also go "males that live in NJ and like Tony Little". The point is, FB let's you target by age. Hint. Hint.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              This is the FOURTH time I've suggested you try Facebook PPC ads, with something like "women over 35, that live in California and like aerobics".

              Notice the "over 35 part"?

              Of course, you're not limited to this age group. You can go older as well as younger. You can also go "males that live in NJ and like Tony Little". The point is, FB let's you target by age. Hint. Hint.
              And I'm not ruling it out. I've been given a lot of viable ideas in this thread. I will carefully examine each of them before making a decision.

              I think that's the smart thing to do.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                And I'm not ruling it out. I've been given a lot of viable ideas in this thread. I will carefully examine each of them before making a decision.

                I think that's the smart thing to do.
                If you are desperate like you continue to say you are, you don't have the time. The smart thing to do is to start doing what makes you money today. Like I said, time to show people through actions because I'm getting a Déjà vu feeling.
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                  If you are desperate like you continue to say you are, you don't have the time. The smart thing to do is to start doing what makes you money today. Like I said, time to show people through actions because I'm getting a Déjà vu feeling.
                  In that case Thomas, since I am looking at all the suggestions in this thread and honestly not getting a definitive feel for what that thing is that will make me money today, what do you suggest I do? Should I put all the suggestions into a hat and pick one? I'm not being smart or anything like that. I am dead serious. What do you suggest I do because I honestly don't know what to choose.

                  What do YOU think will make me money TODAY?

                  Is that a fair question?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    In that case Thomas, since I am looking at all the suggestions in this thread and honestly not getting a definitive feel for what that thing is that will make me money today, what do you suggest I do? Should I put all the suggestions into a hat and pick one? I'm not being smart or anything like that. I am dead serious. What do you suggest I do because I honestly don't know what to choose.

                    What do YOU think will make me money TODAY?

                    Is that a fair question?
                    I would go with Franks suggestion because that seems to be the quickest money. After that, I still like the PLR and doing the articles would give you an idea of what is selling based on the subjects you get hired to work.

                    Research isn't a big deal and it's something you have done in the past already. Kids do it in college every day. No more excuses.

                    Put together an article portfolio and post an ad on this forum TODAY. Easy enough. Stop over-analyzing.

                    Make the money and then you can start putting more effort into your music site. Kurt is right, there is no reason to give it up before you even market it.

                    Cashflow is the most important thing so put more effort into the cashflow and if you have time left over use that for the music site.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                      I would go with Franks suggestion because that seems to be the quickest money. After that, I still like the PLR and doing the articles would give you an idea of what is selling based on the subjects you get hired to work.

                      Research isn't a big deal and it's something you have done in the past already. Kids do it in college every day. No more excuses.

                      Put together an article portfolio and post an add on this forum TODAY. Easy enough.

                      Make the money and then you can start putting more effort into your music site. Kurt is right, there is no reason to give it up before you even market it.

                      Cashflow is the most important thing so put more effort into the cashflow and if you have time left over use that for the music site.
                      Okay, fair enough. That's what I'll do. I'll post an ad in the Warrior For Hire forum. Right? Do I do it there or post it as a WSO? Does it matter?

                      Also, I guess it would help to look at other listings to see which ones are getting the most views. The better my headline and ad, the more customers I'll get.

                      Putting together a portfolio is a technical matter and since I am weak in that area, I can't rush that. In fact, I don't even know if I've kept all my articles. I would probably have to go to EZA and scrape my own content.

                      Posting an ad today is kind of pointless as I don't have content in a "decent" form to show people.

                      No, that's not true. I just realized that I have 140 articles on my royalty free music site. They're all over 1,000 words too so they're high quality. I can direct them to that URL and they can decide if they want to go through that entire portfolio.

                      Okay, couple of questions.

                      1) What do I charge for each article? Or is that a matter of also researching the ads in that forum and see what other people are getting?

                      2) In the past, I'd send the client half the article to see if they like the style and then the rest of it on payment. Do you think that is still a good idea to handle the transaction in that manner?

                      I will give this an honest shot.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        Putting together a portfolio is a technical matter and since I am weak in that area, I can't rush that. In fact, I don't even know if I've kept all my articles. I would probably have to go to EZA and scrape my own content.
                        HERE'S WHAT YOU DO:

                        You open a worddoc and you copy/paste examples of your writing into that page. You don't write explanations or notes - you just put in a few paragraphs in one style and a few paragraphs from another style of writing.

                        A couple page of example of writing style is all you need. When you bid on a job on a freelance site or someone requests examples here - you just pull up that worddoc and shoot off copy of it.


                        Voila - PORTFOLIO!

                        When I started freelancing that's what I dd - and planned to build a writing site with a "real portfolio" later....never did build the site because I ended up quickly with as much work as I could handle.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    In that case Thomas, since I am looking at all the suggestions in this thread and honestly not getting a definitive feel for what that thing is that will make me money today, what do you suggest I do? Should I put all the suggestions into a hat and pick one? I'm not being smart or anything like that. I am dead serious. What do you suggest I do because I honestly don't know what to choose.

                    What do YOU think will make me money TODAY?

                    Is that a fair question?
                    You were given suggestions that will make you money today. The writing sites and a Warriors for Hire thread. That will make you money today.

                    I'll prioritize my suggestions and you should give time to each of them as you have the time.

                    1. Writing for hire
                    2. PLR packages/store
                    3. Niche Revolution revamp
                    4. Revamp EZA articles for an affiliate marketing blog

                    EDIT: I just saw you signed up to some writing sites. Good start.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                      You were given suggestions that will make you money today. The writing sites and a Warriors for Hire thread. That will make you money today.

                      I'll prioritize my suggestions and you should give time to each of them as you have the time.

                      1. Writing for hire
                      2. PLR packages/store
                      3. Niche Revolution revamp
                      Thanks Suzanne. I've signed up with 3 writing sites this evening. Let me start on that and then as I get into a rhythm writing again (I'm a little out of practice) I'll begin to look at the other things as time permits.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                  If you are desperate like you continue to say you are, you don't have the time. The smart thing to do is to start doing what makes you money today. Like I said, time to show people through actions because I'm getting a Déjà vu feeling.
                  I was taught by a person with a PHD in marketing that time is "perishable". If you don't do something today, you will NEVER get that time back.

                  What Steven seriously lacks is a sense of urgency.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    I was taught by a person with a PHD in marketing that time is "perishable". If you don't do something today, you will NEVER get that time back.

                    What Steven seriously lacks is a sense of urgency.
                    Actually Kurt, what I want to avoid is what happened to me these past 14 months. I don't want to just arbitrarily pick something to do that ends up giving me the same results that I've gotten this last year plus.

                    Doesn't it make more sense to make an informed decision than to just pick something blindly? My choices so far have produced nothing to speak of. I don't want to keep making the same mistakes I've been making.

                    Isn't that the smart thing to do?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Actually Kurt, what I want to avoid is what happened to me these past 14 months. I don't want to just arbitrarily pick something to do that ends up giving me the same results that I've gotten this last year plus.

                      Doesn't it make more sense to make an informed decision than to just pick something blindly? My choices so far have produced nothing to speak of. I don't want to keep making the same mistakes I've been making.

                      Isn't that the smart thing to do?
                      No, it's not the smart thing to do.

                      You can go RIGHT NOW and sign up for Text Brokers and Constant Content and get the ball rolling. It isn't like you have to accept any writing jobs after you sign up, so you really have no excuses to not at least check them out, do the requirements and make them an option ASAP.

                      If something better comes up down the road, good. Until then, CC and TB are options for you.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                        No, it's not the smart thing to do.

                        You can go RIGHT NOW and sign up for Text Brokers and Constant Content and get the ball rolling. It isn't like you have to accept any writing jobs after you sign up, so you really have no excuses to not at least check them out, do the requirements and make them an option ASAP.

                        If something better comes up down the road, good. Until then, CC and TB are options for you.
                        Should I also do the Warrior For Hire thing too?

                        As for Constant Content, I actually do (or did) have an account there. I'll see if it's still active. I didn't realize that they paid for articles. At the time I was writing (this was about 9 or 10 years ago) they weren't. I guess the site has changed.

                        Anyway, I will go there right now and see what the status of my account is if I can still login. If not, I'll sign up with a new one.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                          Banned
                          Check out Brad Callen's writing service as well.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                          Should I also do the Warrior For Hire thing too?
                          YES! I had overwhelming response from my WFH thread. Just do it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Doesn't it make more sense to make an informed decision than to just pick something blindly? My choices so far have produced nothing to speak of. I don't want to keep making the same mistakes I've been making.

                      Isn't that the smart thing to do?
                      Yes it is for people not desperate.

                      People in "polite fights, for example follow the "rules." People that are desperate ( think they have your child or wife by the hair and are about to do something awful) come out with both fists flying and throw anything they can and kick and pinch and pull hair and bite and cheat and do everything they can to stop the atrocity from happening.

                      They may die in the process along with their child or wife but they went down with a fight. They didn't stand by waiting to make a perfect decision on what to do - the decision was made long ago when they decided they loved their family and would do anything to protect them. Now it was time to act.

                      Mark

                      PS You've spent enough time on THIS thread to have written a small report about SOMETHING and slap together a crappy sales letter and put it up for sale along with the first autoresponder message in the series. Then come out with version 1.1 of the sales letter and product and improve it from there.

                      And then market the heck out of it. Don't write one more word of any kind that isn't directly related to marketing or trying to sell your "crappy" product. Don't take one breath or move one muscle if it doesn't have to do with selling this product.

                      That's what they mean.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      Doesn't it make more sense to make an informed decision than to just pick something blindly? My choices so far have produced nothing to speak of. I don't want to keep making the same mistakes I've been making.

                      Isn't that the smart thing to do?
                      Your choices have been poor so far because you haven't listened to those that have tried to help you, you haven't taken action or both.

                      You've been given some FANTASTIC advice in this thread! For goodness sakes, do something!

                      What's hot right now? What was hot 10-20 years ago and what will still be evergreen in the next 10-20 years?

                      Health (the baby boomers are buying stuff like crazy), wealth (most people can use more money), beauty/vanity products (the baby boomers are buying stuff like crazy), popular hobbies (golf, pets, etc) and much more.

                      Go to other people's POPULAR plr sites and look at what they're selling. Look at how they're packaging their products. Then simply choose 3-5 things that you either know a lot about or are interested in learning about, and start writing!

                      As Suzanne said, go through your EZA material and see what hasn't been indexed yet. Set up a blog, update some of the content, if necessary, and publish it. Take some of it and compile a free report. Add affiliate links and your blog url to the report. Set up an autoresponder and write a follow-up series or just use some of the content you've ALREADY WRITTEN.

                      Her idea has me thinking that I should check mine, too, though a lot of my articles on EZA are part of deals I made when I sold the original sites they were driving traffic to. Still, there's a lot of content sitting there that's likely going to waste.

                      Take snippets of your content, grab a couple free images, create short 1-2 minute videos and submit them to YouTube, Vimeo and any other video site that will accept them for free with links to your site beneath them with a call to action.

                      Once they've been indexed on your site by Google, submit slide presentations to Slideshare.net. You can also do audio recordings and submit them.

                      Use Fiverr.com to have others do a lot of this for you for $5.00.

                      Once you start bringing in some steady money you should then start investing a portion of it into paid advertising.

                      I've done most of what I'm recommending here except writing plr and audio recordings. I've suffered from a lot of the same things you have, though. Being indecisive, not focusing on one thing at a time, spending too much time beating a dead horse and procrastinating. I have an offline biz that I've been working, though, and that's time consuming. Honestly, I want to shut it down. I'm getting burned out.

                      It doesn't even matter if you have small projects that don't work out. At least you'll know and you can get out quickly and move on to the next thing.

                      Just find something and start taking action, Steve. It's not rocket science. I'm redoing a lot of my stuff, too. It wasn't working, so I needed to stop doing it. Sound familiar?

                      Time to get to work.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by Joe Stewart View Post

                        Your choices have been poor so far because you haven't listened to those that have tried to help you, you haven't taken action or both.

                        You've been given some FANTASTIC advice in this thread! For goodness sakes, do something!

                        What's hot right now, what was hot 10-20 years ago and will still be evergreen in the next 10-20 years?

                        Health (the baby boomers are buying stuff like crazy), wealth (most people can use more money), beauty/vanity products ((the baby boomers are buying stuff like crazy), popular hobbies (golf, pets, etc) and much more.

                        Go to other people's POPULAR plr sites and look at what they're selling. Look at how they're packaging their products. Then simply choose 3-5 things that you either know a lot about or are interested in learning about, and start writing!

                        As Suzanne said, go through your EZA material and see what hasn't been indexed yet. Set up a blog, update some of the content, if necessary, and publish it. Take some of it and compile a free report. Add affiliate links and your blog url to the report. Set up an autoresponder and write a follow-up series or just use some of the content you've ALREADY WRITTEN. Her idea has me thinking that I should check mine, too, though a lot of my articles on EZA are part of deals I made when I sold the original sites they were driving tracffic too. Still, there's like content sitting there going to waste.

                        Take snippets of your content, grab a couple free images, create short 1-2 minute videos and submit them to YouTube, Vimeo and any other video site that will accept them for free with links to your site beneath them with a call to action.

                        Once they've been indexed on your site by Google, submit slide presentations to Slideshare.net. You can also do audio recordings and submit them.

                        Use Fiverr.com to have others do a lot of this for you for $5.00.

                        Once you start bringing in some steady money you should then start investing a portion of it into paid advertising.

                        I've done most of what I'm recommending here except writing plr and audio recordings. I've suffered from a lot of the same things you have, though. Being indecisive, not focusing on one thing at a time, spending too much time beating a dead horse and procrastinating. I have an offline biz that I've been working, though, and that's time consuming. Honestly, I want to shut it down. I'm getting burned out.

                        It doesn't even matter if you have small projects that don't work out. At least you'll know and you can get out quickly and move on to the next thing.

                        Just find something and start taking action, Steve. It's not rocket science. I'm redoing a lot of my stuff, too. It wasn't working, so I needed to stop doing it. Sound familiar?

                        Time to get to work.
                        Thanks. Please read the above post. I've done what I was told to do, finally. I think this writing thing will work out if the sites approve my application. It's going to be 5 to 7 days before I find out.

                        I'll let you know when I do.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                          Check out Brad Callen's writing service as well.
                          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                          Okay, I have submitted my applications to Constant Content and TextBrokers. I had to write an article on the spot on a subject they dictated, no more than 250 words (which is no article, but whatever) and submit it for approval. For Constant Content, I also had to take a quiz to demonstrate my knowledge of the English language which included spelling, grammar and punctuation. The quiz questions were very hard. I doubt I passed it but I tried.

                          That site has obviously come a long way from the days when anybody could sign up and write. I guess they had to do this because of the Google slap on article directories so I more than understand the rigorous screening process.

                          Approvals for both sites are 5 to 7 days, so I won't be writing for either one starting tomorrow. On the plus side, this gives me a week to work on other things.

                          Okay? For once I have listened to what people here have told me to do and I am doing it.
                          Good job. Let's add another that TB mentioned to expand your options a bit more....Sign up for Brad Callen's iWriter here:

                          iWriter - Register and request articles
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                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                            Good job. Let's add another that TB mentioned to expand your options a bit more....Sign up for Brad Callen's iWriter here:

                            iWriter - Register and request articles
                            Okay, iWriter signed up with. I know Brad personally. I don't know if that's going to matter at all but I guess it can't hurt.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                              Okay, iWriter signed up with. I know Brad personally. I don't know if that's going to matter at all but I guess it can't hurt.
                              I don't think Brad will hold that against you.

                              Remember, these are just assets and opportunities, not commitments. They aren't the greatest money-makers, but they are better than flipping burgers.

                              Tomorrow, get your WF "for hire" ad posted and take Yukon's advice to check out Audio Jungle. As Yukon suggested, look at what's selling and add some similar songs of your own, "borrowing" their keywords, etc.

                              Become an Author | AudioJungle

                              There are no guarantees, but at least you'll be in the game.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                I don't think Brad will hold that against you.

                                Remember, these are just assets and opportunities, not commitments. They aren't the greatest money-makers, but they are better than flipping burgers.

                                Tomorrow, get your WF "for hire" ad posted and take Yukon's advice to check out Audio Jungle. As Yukon suggested, look at what's selling and add some similar songs of your own, "borrowing" their keywords, etc.

                                Become an Author | AudioJungle

                                There are no guarantees, but at least you'll be in the game.
                                Kurt, I actually signed up with Audio Jungle a while ago but when I went to upload some songs their strict requirements that I wasn't aware of when I signed up made it so that I couldn't upload them without risking losing my account.

                                In short, I have to redo the tracks I upload. I have to have the full length track plus a shortened track with an audio mark over it so that it can't be pirated and used. So because of this I put it on hold for the time.

                                Since I won't be able to start writing for the directories until probably next week, this will give me this week to get some tracks ready for audio jungle that will meet with their submission requirements, which also include a higher sample rate for MP3s than I was compiling at.
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                                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                  Kurt, I actually signed up with Audio Jungle a while ago but when I went to upload some songs their strict requirements that I wasn't aware of when I signed up made it so that I couldn't upload them without risking losing my account.

                                  In short, I have to redo the tracks I upload. I have to have the full length track plus a shortened track with an audio mark over it so that it can't be pirated and used. So because of this I put it on hold for the time.

                                  Since I won't be able to start writing for the directories until probably next week, this will give me this week to get some tracks ready for audio jungle that will meet with their submission requirements, which also include a higher sample rate for MP3s than I was compiling at.
                                  OK then, in the meantime do as Yukon suggested and research the music that's selling and that is in your "wheel house".

                                  Those strict requirements aren't barriers, they are hurdles that reduce the competition that either can't or won't meet the requirements.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                    OK then, in the meantime do as Yukon suggested and research the music that's selling and that is in your "wheel house".

                                    Those strict requirements aren't obstacles, they are hurdles that reduce the competition that either can't or won't meet the requirements.
                                    Kurt, I have a question about iWriter.

                                    When I signed up, they only allowed me to pick 3 categories. Can I still write an article for a category I didn't choose?

                                    The reason I am asking is because there is an article there that I can absolutely write (1,000 words) on teacher tenure (my wife is a teacher) that pays decently.

                                    I don't know how this works. The email I got said there was an article that matched one of my categories that I'd rather not write because the pay comes out to $1 per hour and it's a subject I'd have to do extensive research on.

                                    Can you shed any light on this or do I have to submit a support request to Brad?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                      One other question Kurt. You say research the music that's selling there. How do you do this? Is there some kind of "what's hot" link or area on the site? I'm there now but all I see is "featured items." Are those the big sellers? Just because something is featured doesn't necessarily mean it sells well.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                        One other question Kurt. You say research the music that's selling there. How do you do this? Is there some kind of "what's hot" link or area on the site? I'm there now but all I see is "featured items." Are those the big sellers? Just because something is featured doesn't necessarily mean it sells well.
                                        Search and browse. Search and browse. Search and browse.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                          Search and browse. Search and browse. Search and browse.
                                          Okay, I'll go to Google. I'm sure if I'm asking this question others have too and the answer has to be somewhere.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                            Okay, I'll go to Google. I'm sure if I'm asking this question others have too and the answer has to be somewhere.
                                            No. Search and browse Audio Jungle. The results tell you how many sales each song has made.

                                            This is an information gathering and brain storming mission. Just spend an afternoon researching and listening to as many money-making songs as possible.

                                            And if you feel others have the same questions, your research and experiences could also be a good report that you can use as list-building bait, correct? You know, the ol' kill two birds with one stone thing?

                                            At the very least, it would be a good War Room post and let you give something of value...
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                                            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                              No. Search and browse Audio Jungle. The results tell you how many sales each song has made.

                                              This is an information gathering and brain storming mission. Just spend an afternoon researching and listening to as many money-making songs as possible.

                                              And if you feel others have the same questions, your research and experiences could also be a good report that you can use as list-building bait, correct? You know, the ol' kill two birds with one stone thing?

                                              At the very least, it would be a good War Room post and let you give something of value...
                                              Sounds like a plan Kurt. I'll spend the day tomorrow doing that and gathering data. It might even make a great product to sell to people looking for this kind of information.

                                              ** EDIT ** Okay, I figured out the Audio Jungle layout. Each song has a date uploaded and number of sales. Number of sales not really as important as how many per time period. So I'll be doing some math. I'll make a spreadsheet of each genre/sub genre and what appears the most as top downloads. That should give me a very good idea of what to concentrate on.

                                              I'm actually pumped about this after seeing some of the download figures already and the prices these tracks are getting. $18 each. That's not bad at all.

                                              Can't wait for tomorrow morning. Thank you for kicking my butt into gear on this one. I think I can make this work. between this and the two writing gigs, I don't see any reason why I can't put $500 to $1,000 a month in my PayPal account.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                Sounds like a plan Kurt. I'll spend the day tomorrow doing that and gathering data. It might even make a great product to sell to people looking for this kind of information.
                                                This is a strategy I use a lot. If there's something I need to know, I research it totally, not only for my own benefit, but also as a possible report.

                                                A report is an asset. It can be sold, traded, given away, etc., and the info is also something I can use directly. In poker, this is increasing your "outs".

                                                I'm not sure if the WF would be a good market place for this report, but I'm sure it would be of interest on just about any music-making site.

                                                One thing to research is, are there any do-follow links available on Audio Jungle?

                                                Can you reverse engineer the Audio Jungle search algo? I doubt it's very sophisticated. Can you modify your song pages and tweak for SEO? If so, how long does it take Audio Jungle to adjust to the changes? Is this something you can do over and over, tweaking until you get top ranking?

                                                Can you figure out the most popular search words and phrases? It may be better to rank #18 for a very popular search than #1 for an obscure search.

                                                When doing a search, what are the most common tags shared by the most songs on the first page on the Audio Jungle SERPs for various keywords?

                                                Can you build interior links on Audio Jungle to your song pages?

                                                How do you get to have a song as "featured"? Why do I have a feeling it's a paid option? How much? What were your results with having a song featured?

                                                Can you use your copywriting experience and skills to make more sales with less traffic? How can you create a test for tweaking sales copy?

                                                How do you add the audio "water mark"?

                                                What's the required bit rate for MP3s?

                                                Does there seem to be a prefered length for best-selling songs?

                                                Are you allowed to add some additional bonuses with your downloads? For example, add a 10, 30 and 60 second stinger?

                                                How about a package of "mood music"? Will they allow that? Happy..sad...suspense...horror...comedy?

                                                Will building links and posting your song pages to social sites result in Google listings and rankings for that page? Does Google index and include Audio Jungle song pages it it's results? Do they rank at all?
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                                                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                                  This is a strategy I use a lot. If there's something I need to know, I research it totally, not only for my own benefit, but also as a possible report.

                                                  A report is an asset. It can be sold, traded, given away, etc., and the info is also something I can use directly. In poker, this is increasing your "outs".

                                                  I'm not sure if the WF would be a good market place for this report, but I'm sure it would be of interest on just about any music-making site.

                                                  One thing to research is, are there any do-follow links available on Audio Jungle?

                                                  Can you reverse engineer the Audio Jungle search algo? I doubt it's very sophisticated. Can you modify your song pages and tweak for SEO? If so, how long does it take Audio Jungle to adjust to the changes? Is this something you can do over and over, tweaking until you get top ranking?

                                                  Can you figure out the most popular search words and phrases? It may be better to rank #18 for a very popular search than #1 for an obscure search.

                                                  When doing a search, what are the most common tags shared by the most songs on the first page on the Audio Jungle SERPs for various keywords?

                                                  Can you build interior links on Audio Jungle to your song pages?

                                                  How do you get to have a song as "featured"? Why do I have a feeling it's a paid option? How much? What were your results with having a song featured?

                                                  Can you use your copywriting experience and skills to make more sales with less traffic? How can you create a test for tweaking sales copy?

                                                  How do you add the audio "water mark"?

                                                  What's the required bit rate for MP3s?

                                                  Does there seem to be a prefered length for best-selling songs?

                                                  Are you allowed to add some additional bonuses with your downloads? For example, add a 10, 30 and 60 second stinger?

                                                  How about a package of "mood music"? Will they allow that? Happy..sad...suspense...horror...comedy?

                                                  Will building links and posting your song pages to social sites result in Google listings and rankings for that page? Does Google index and include Audio Jungle pages it it's results? Do they rank at all?
                                                  Great tips Kurt.

                                                  Here's something very interesting. I guess they have to do this to keep up the quality of the site itself.

                                                  Audio Jungle has to approve your track. I'm not just talking about that it has to be 320 MPS MP3s, have a watermark on the sample and whatever technical specs they have to meet.

                                                  I mean they have to approve your track. If they don't think the music, recording, production, performance, whatever, is good enough, they won't approve it.

                                                  Their tip on this is not to be discouraged, to keep trying.

                                                  There is a silver lining to this. If I DO get a track accepted (I don't think my current catalog will do it) then that means it meets with their strict requirements and probably has a good shot at making some sales.

                                                  Featured tracks are a weekly thing. Each week certain tracks are featured based on how good they are. So I just have to submit some killer stuff in a popular genre and I may very well have an immediate winner.

                                                  In other words, it appears that a lot of my success with this site is actually in my own hands. If I finally do something that's really kick ass (and not do the bare minimum) I may have something.

                                                  I'm looking forward to the challenge.
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                                                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                    Banned
                                                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                    In other words, it appears that a lot of my success with this site is actually in my own hands. If I finally do something that's really kick ass (and not do the bare minimum) I may have something.

                                                    I'm looking forward to the challenge.
                                                    You just said that your stuff is dated and you don't know how to do contemporary music. Tell me how getting excited about this is going to put money in the bank if the above is true?

                                                    It's pretty apparent that you want to do music but haven't been successful at it. It's pretty apparent also that you don't really want to create content, but in the past you've been wildly successful at it. Just a thought.
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                                                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                      You just said that your stuff is dated and you don't know how to do contemporary music. Tell me how getting excited about this is going to put money in the bank if the above is true?

                                                      It's pretty apparent that you want to do music but haven't been successful at it. It's pretty apparent also that you don't really want to create content, but in the past you've been wildly successful at it. Just a thought.
                                                      I can do movie trailer scores. They're popular and very close to classical music, which I was trained in. Yeah, rock, hip-hop, EDM, stuff like that, probably no chance. But I'm not going to try to do that stuff for this site. There's no point. Trailer music seems to be popular and sell well. It's also probably very competitive because now you're talking about people who actually know how to write music and not these hacks that just lay down a cool beat and a wobble bass.

                                                      This I have a fighting chance with if I can get my music accepted. I'll know fairly soon too. If I bust my ass creating killer trailer tracks and they all get rejected then I'll know this isn't for me. But I have to give this a fair chance. The money made on each sale blows article writing away.

                                                      I owe it to myself to try, especially since it was suggested as a viable alternative by somebody in this thread who I am sure you respect.
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                                                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                                                        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                        I owe it to myself to try, especially since it was suggested as a viable alternative by somebody in this thread who I am sure you respect.
                                                        Of course I respect Kurt, but I'll ask you this ... how long will you attempt this before there is another thread like this? Is it impossible to put up a WFH thread, take some writing gigs where you've signed up, and spend a portion of your time doing this, or is this another all or nothing thing?
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                                          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                          I can do movie trailer scores. They're popular and very close to classical music, which I was trained in. Yeah, rock, hip-hop, EDM, stuff like that, probably no chance. But I'm not going to try to do that stuff for this site. There's no point. Trailer music seems to be popular and sell well. It's also probably very competitive because now you're talking about people who actually know how to write music and not these hacks that just lay down a cool beat and a wobble bass.

                                                          This I have a fighting chance with if I can get my music accepted. I'll know fairly soon too. If I bust my ass creating killer trailer tracks and they all get rejected then I'll know this isn't for me. But I have to give this a fair chance. The money made on each sale blows article writing away.

                                                          I owe it to myself to try, especially since it was suggested as a viable alternative by somebody in this thread who I am sure you respect.
                                                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                          Of course I respect Kurt, but I'll ask you this ... how long will you attempt this before there is another thread like this? Is it impossible to put up a WFH thread, take some writing gigs where you've signed up, and spend a portion of your time doing this, or is this another all or nothing thing?
                                                          Thanks, but it was Yukon that brought it up...if it works, I'll take the credit and if it doesn't work, blame Yukon.
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                                                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                          Of course I respect Kurt, but I'll ask you this ... how long will you attempt this before there is another thread like this? Is it impossible to put up a WFH thread, take some writing gigs where you've signed up, and spend a portion of your time doing this, or is this another all or nothing thing?
                                                          No, of course not. I'm signed up with two article sites and waiting for their approval. I am going to post a WFH tomorrow and I am going to dive into the article writing.

                                                          That doesn't mean I can't spend a good portion of my time also writing very specific music for a very specific market. And like I said, if I come up with 3 "killer" tracks and they reject all 3, I'll know that I'm just not good enough for their requirements and I move on.

                                                          But I need to try. If I don't, I'll always wonder "what if?"

                                                          Remember, this isn't like putting music on my own site that gets a lousy 500 visitors a month and all freebie seekers. This is a major site with major traffic. It is all within my control as to how successful I can be with this site if I just create really amazing music because there, people MUST buy. Everything is watermarked. They can't steal anything.

                                                          This is a chance to see just how good I am.
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                                                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                                            Banned
                                                            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                            No, of course not. I'm signed up with two article sites and waiting for their approval. I am going to post a WFH tomorrow and I am going to dive into the article writing.

                                                            That doesn't mean I can't spend a good portion of my time also writing very specific music for a very specific market. And like I said, if I come up with 3 "killer" tracks and they reject all 3, I'll know that I'm just not good enough for their requirements and I move on.

                                                            But I need to try. If I don't, I'll always wonder "what if?"
                                                            Well good. Glad to hear that it's not all or nothing and you'll be using the other suggestions to get started on making some cash, however un-fun the projects may be.
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                                                            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                                                              Well good. Glad to hear that it's not all or nothing and you'll be using the other suggestions to get started on making some cash, however un-fun the projects may be.
                                                              Un-fun? I'm not so sure. I love to write. I've been doing it since I'm 10 years old. I used to write TV scripts as a kid. I wrote an entire season for a possible sitcom that I still need to pitch to somebody someday. Yeah, something else that I did and never did anything with. It's been sitting on my hard drive since like 2004. Shame, because it's really pretty funny.

                                                              Un-fun would be digging ditches or slinging fries or working a cash register, or the worst job I ever had...putting labels on law briefs for court cases.

                                                              Writing a few articles each day isn't even close to being un-fun.
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                                                              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                                                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                                                Un-fun? I'm not so sure. I love to write. I've been doing it since I'm 10 years old. I used to write TV scripts as a kid. I wrote an entire season for a possible sitcom that I still need to pitch to somebody someday. Yeah, something else that I did and never did anything with. It's been sitting on my hard drive since like 2004. Shame, because it's really pretty funny.

                                                                Un-fun would be digging ditches or slinging fries or working a cash register, or the worst job I ever had...putting labels on law briefs for court cases.

                                                                Writing a few articles each day isn't even close to being un-fun.
                                                                You'll probably have to jump through a hoop or two and the article sites. I did a few years ago for Text Brokers. If I can be a 4 star writer, you sure can. Your grammar is FAR better than mine.

                                                                The article sites along with the WF ad gives you the ability to make some spending money. Maybe do something like everyday you make $20 writing articles, you can "reward" yourself with being able to record and upload a song to Audio Jungle?

                                                                With writing, you can make a little "sure" cash and the Audio Jungle gives you a shot at some residual income down the road.
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                                                                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                                                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                                                  You'll probably have to jump through a hoop or two and the article sites. I did a few years ago for Text Brokers. If I can be a 4 star writer, you sure can. Your grammar is FAR better than mine.

                                                                  The article sites along with the WF ad gives you the ability to make some spending money. Maybe do something like everyday you make $20 writing articles, you can "reward" yourself with being able to record and upload a song to Audio Jungle?

                                                                  With writing, you can make a little "sure" cash and the Audio Jungle gives you a shot at some residual income down the road.
                                                                  I like it. It sounds like a solid plan.

                                                                  Let's say I write 2 articles everyday (assuming I can get that much work) and make $10 for each article. That's $20 a day. That's $600 at the end of a month. I'd be content with that for now. As time goes by and I have money to invest in other things, maybe the day will come when I can move away from the daily writing if something comes along that has a better return.

                                                                  It's how I started, writing articles for $5 a piece. At the end of a month (I wrote like a fiend back then) I made over $1,200. Yeah, I wrote like 8 to 10 articles a day and worked 14 hour days doing it.

                                                                  Of course that was also after 3 years of unemployment so yeah, that was the other "desperate" time in my life.

                                                                  You do what you have to do when you really reach that point where you're at the end of your rope.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                            Okay, I navigated through the whole iWriter site.

                                            Brad Callen is a genius.

                                            Essentially, here is how it works. You have two choices.

                                            1) Write 30 articles at a rate of $1 per 150 words to be able to write the higher paid articles.

                                            2) Pay a one time fee of $147 to show you're a "serious" writer to be able to write the higher paid articles ($14.99 per 1,000 word article) right away.

                                            But here's the kicker. You can write the article for the client and if they don't accept it, you don't get paid. So even paying the $147 fee, there are no guarantees here.

                                            Brilliant business plan on Brad's part but I have to draw the line here. I don't write for $1 an hour. I can work an hour at my friend's comic store stacking shelves or sorting cards and make more than that.

                                            But I gotta hand it to Brad. Pure genius on his part.

                                            I'll just wait for Constant Content and TextBrokers to get back to me with my approval.

                                            In the meantime, I will go through the Audio Jungle site and see if I can find what the hottest sellers are and create music like it. That I am sure I can do.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                      Kurt, I have a question about iWriter.

                                      When I signed up, they only allowed me to pick 3 categories. Can I still write an article for a category I didn't choose?

                                      The reason I am asking is because there is an article there that I can absolutely write (1,000 words) on teacher tenure (my wife is a teacher) that pays decently.

                                      I don't know how this works. The email I got said there was an article that matched one of my categories that I'd rather not write because the pay comes out to $1 per hour and it's a subject I'd have to do extensive research on.

                                      Can you shed any light on this or do I have to submit a support request to Brad?
                                      I really don't know anything about iWriter....I posted it simply because it's another option for you to check out.
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                                        I really don't know anything about iWriter....I posted it simply because it's another option for you to check out.

                                        Okay, then I'll contact Brad and ask him.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                          Well, I got my answer. I tried to click on "write article" to write it and the site won't let me. I have to get 30 points as a standard writer first which means writing 30 articles at $1 per hour rate.

                                          I'll have to think about this one.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                                            Banned
                                            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                                            Well, I got my answer. I tried to click on "write article" to write it and the site won't let me. I have to get 30 points as a standard writer first which means writing 30 articles at $1 per hour rate.

                                            I'll have to think about this one.
                                            It's not $1/hr. It's $1/150 words... and there's lots of gigs to be had if you do the for Hire thread at your own price (as long as you don't overprice them).
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          • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Thanks. I couldn't possibly ask you to listen to my music. There is just too much of it.

            But I can say this much. When I approached the one gentleman about my synth patches he did essentially say that they were dated.<snip>
            "Dated," schmated. Fashion swings in pendulums anyway. Before you know it, it'll be hip, like bell-bottom pants.
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          • Profile picture of the author lanfear63
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Thanks. I couldn't possibly ask you to listen to my music. There is just too much of it.

            But I can say this much. When I approached the one gentleman about my synth patches he did essentially say that they were dated.

            Hey, I grew up in the 60s and 70s. The synth music I listened to is what I program, more or less. So of course they're dated. I'm out of touch with today's sound. To insist otherwise would be foolish of me. The gentleman sent me YouTube videos of the kinds of pads people today are looking for. I forget the name of the group. But I listened and yes, they sound nothing like the pads I create, though I don't think they're all that amazing. Doesn't matter what I think. It's what people want and if I don't create that sound, I won't make sales.

            Can I recreate that sound? I don't know. Maybe. Never tried so I can't answer that.

            My music is probably just as dated. My orchestral tracks are pretty contemporary as far as "movie score" music goes, but that's just a very select niche and not everybody is looking for that.

            And my most downloaded tracks pretty much confirm this.

            I'm 56 years old. I can't be 26 years old. My mother used to have a saying. "To thine own self be true." I could try to "imitate" the current sounds but it would be like a non English speaking person trying to write articles in English for a "hip" niche that required a lot of slang and coming off sounding authentic.

            If I'm honest with myself, I'm an average writer, producer and performer of music and I think that's being generous. I am certainly not among the elite.

            But I have to do something with my life and if I just limit it to things that I'm great at then I might as well just get a job at a Burger King because I'm not great at anything.

            Is that honest enough?

            I can DO just about anything. I'm the proverbial jack of all trades, master of none person. I have done so many things in my life you wouldn't believe it. I think, more or less, I'm pretty smart or at least adaptable. I can play several musical instruments but none of them really well. I can write just about any kind of music, but none of it really well. I can program any synthesizer in existence, but none of them up to the requirements of the strictest standards.

            I'd make a great assistant to somebody in the music business as I can handle almost any task they'd give me. But assistant jobs just don't fall into your lap. Honestly, I don't even know how to go about getting one or if they even exist.

            Everything I've ever done is self taught, including my home business. I made it on my own and I failed on my own.

            Kurt said that I have no business making videos. Truth is, I have no business doing anything creative because I'm just not professional quality in anything I do. My songwriting evaluations by industry professionals, on a scale of 1 to 10, come out to about a 7.5. Not bad, but just not good enough.

            And that's been the story of my life with everything I've tried to do that has to do with the music business. I've been told I'm close but not there.

            There is such a thing as talent and maybe I only have so much of it. Otherwise don't you think I would have broken into the business by now?

            As far as producing other people's music, again, I'm okay but I have no business charging the kind of fees "working" producers charge. If you hear my recordings you'll see that they're okay but not pro level.

            Nobody is more critical of myself than myself. But I still have to eat so I have to do something with my life.

            Right now I'm just trying to figure out what that something is.
            Your very much like me then, I'm 57, always been a jack of all trades but a master of none. I have wandered around dabbling in different things and learning so much about a subject but never have become a master at it. With midi music composition I was able to circumnavigate being a keyboard wiz and compose multitrack music which I myself was quite pleased with. Even sold a few. just copied to a cd or cassette but made at home, just using software. You have even more gear to play with

            On the music side it sounds like something like I was doing would be your forte. I do New Age Instrumental. I love listening to it, I have become reasonable at creating my own, it is a niche market that does not rely on up to date sounds. as long as you can put out something that is soothing, relaxing, and meditative, it does not even have to be that musical. (although I gravitate to instrumental pieces that actually do have recognizable tunes) having said that, because of life and distractions, aside from a simple backing track to my wife's college promo song she wrote have not done much for a number of years.

            Anyway, rambling. I'm not saying do New Age but have the courage of your convictions in a niche market of some kind and compose instrumental music of a timeless genre. Dump it on a cd, get some copies made up and sell it. If your stuff is good you might get the recognition you deserve if your a good composer/instrumentalist.

            I would also not worry so much about being able to play to perfection either. I cant, but that's the beauty of midi and samples. It's like a word processor for music, you put it together and run the spell check and thesaurus over it and you can, even with limited skill, get it perfect.

            That's how I view the internet. there are now loads of shortcuts to having beautiful looking sites without graphic design or html skills, even the most basic Wordpress template looks ok. There are allsorts of plugins, software and short cuts to creating and achieving stuff. We do not even strive to be the master anymore. The use of tools and sites and plugins married with the right selling opportunities and put together so they work together and compliment each other lets us achieve the same ends and appear to be the master.

            You forget that only a small percentage of people ever create music or dabble with marketing online. They don't even think about it. They see a site or ad, music and think wow, the pros did that. That's you in their eyes. You don't consider to be it yourself but your standards have been artificially escalated by the people you mix with. . To a lot of people your skills are god like.

            I do have a 40 hour a week job in a large community college in accounts payable which tires me so I don't need to do IM but I like to and would dearly like to lose the job as the pays average. How I landed this job still amazes me. I was a printer for years, worked is a superstore for 5 as a salesman and have no real qualifications to speak of.

            IM is to my mind still one of the most amazing ways to get out of the rat race and working for others for peanuts though. It requires motivation and dedication until you can get something that works and largely automate, several money making activities should be done at the same time as well. I, like you have had periods of earning only to have had the rug pulled.

            As for you flipping burgers. Nope, I know you can earn more just doing what has been suggested above. don't underestimate what skills you do have and putting what you have learned to good use.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Okay, I have submitted my applications to Constant Content and TextBrokers. I had to write an article on the spot on a subject they dictated, no more than 250 words (which is no article, but whatever) and submit it for approval. For Constant Content, I also had to take a quiz to demonstrate my knowledge of the English language which included spelling, grammar and punctuation. The quiz questions were very hard. I doubt I passed it but I tried.

              That site has obviously come a long way from the days when anybody could sign up and write. I guess they had to do this because of the Google slap on article directories so I more than understand the rigorous screening process.

              Approvals for both sites are 5 to 7 days, so I won't be writing for either one starting tomorrow. On the plus side, this gives me a week to work on other things.

              Okay? For once I have listened to what people here have told me to do and I am doing it.
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                For Constant Content, I also had to take a quiz to demonstrate my knowledge of the English language which included spelling, grammar and punctuation. The quiz questions were very hard. I doubt I passed it but I tried.
                If you didn't pass it, they're very, very short of writers indeed.

                Someone told me a couple of weeks ago it really does take them a week to get back to people (which surprised me).

                I think most of the money there, these days, comes from private commission orders, or whatever they're called, but you have to sell 10 "open articles" first, before being eligible to do those. The figure might be wrong, but something like that, anyway. You can read through the forum there, I think, to see "what's occurring"?

                And good night!

                .
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Steven,

    For what its worth, I think your music is great. I think its safe to say if I like it, then others would as well. Out of curiosity, what do you think of your music?

    The way your site was designed made it vulnerable to leakages and that is a pity. Oh well, here and now. You're obviously an extremely smart guy and I don't say that to anyone unless I mean it. I believe that you'll find solutions...and rock.
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    We have something in common, Steve.

    I'm pretty handy with the violin:



    Someone with no expertise + wants to be an assistant = affiliate marketer.

    Alexa has basically said she will help you, so PM her and ask for affiliate marketing advice.

    (Edit - I'm not implying every affiliate marketer doesn't have any expertise, just commenting on what Steve said.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by fin View Post

      We have something in common, Steve.

      I'm pretty handy with the violin:



      Someone with no expertise + wants to be an assistant = affiliate marketer.

      Alexa has basically said she will help you, so PM her and ask for affiliate marketing advice.

      (Edit - I'm not implying every affiliate marketer doesn't have any expertise, just commenting on what Steve said.)
      Yeah, affiliate marketing is an option too. I was actually a very good affiliate marketer before I started creating my own products. Came in 19th in the on affiliate contest I was in against the biggest affiliate marketers on the Internet. That was a long time ago. I haven't done affiliate marketing in 8 years.

      But here is what I do remember from it and I'm sure things haven't changed much.

      To compete with all the affiliates that are out there for any given product worth promoting, you have to do the following:

      1) Get the product and use it. That sometimes means having to buy it as a lot of vendors won't give you a product just because you tell them you want to promote it.

      2) Create lots of content for the product itself in the form of reviews, including test and videos.

      3) Write lots of articles about the problem that the product solves and get them circulated around the Internet. No link to the product in the article itself but only to your list where you give them more info.

      4) Write up a complete autoresponder series of no less than 7 followups in order to eventually close the deal and sell the product.

      5) Offer bonuses to your prospects if they buy from you so that they have incentive to purchase from you and not somebody else.

      That's what worked 8 years ago. I'm going to assume that you need to do at least that much if not more today.

      Have I pretty much hit the nail on the head?

      Now, why did I stop doing affiliate marketing?

      Simple, with all that work, and it was a ton, I never made more than $1,500 a month from it.

      That same amount of work, when creating my own products, produced 5 times the income and more.

      Granted, affiliate marketing will still beat what I'm earning now (which is nothing) but as an experienced affiliate marketer I know what's involved and maybe even more than that today. The Internet has become incredibly competitive and many avenues of promotion that worked 8 years ago don't work today. So I would also need to add to the above list researching current methods of promoting products as an affiliate.

      I am not ruling it out (I'm not ruling anything out at this point) but I am also considering it understanding what's most likely involved.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      If I'm honest with myself, I'm an average writer, producer and performer of music and I think that's being generous. I am certainly not among the elite.
      Not among the elite? You are not among the PAID.

      You have a great hobby that you love and have skills for. You do not have a commercially viable music career. Professionals have been telling you that and you don't take it seriously.

      If you want to write for pay - you don't need to analyze it with 1,2,3 list after list. You write about writing....but in the end you don't want to write. Ok - Decide you will not be a freelance writer and drop it.

      If what you love is spending all day making digital music - do it. If you need money - spend half your day doing something that pays and he rest of the day playing music. Working a job 2 days a week at minimum wage would be more than $400 a month - so would writing 10-12 articles per week.

      You haven't hit bottom yet - or you'd know you do whatever you HAVE to do to survive. No matter what you say - you aren't there yet.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


        You haven't hit bottom yet - or you'd know you do whatever you HAVE to do to survive. No matter what you say - you aren't there yet.
        Then I guess that makes me very lucky Kay. Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    PS...Here's the diffence between writing for Text Brokers and selling on the WF. If you write an article for TB, you are guaranteed of getting paid.

    On the other hand, placing an ad on the WF has the potential to pay more for your efforts.

    However, it isn't "either/or", it's BOTH. What's there to think about?

    In the time you've spent writing on this thread could have made you $20-30 on TextBrokers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Okay, my Constant Content account has been deleted so I have to sign up again.

      I see I have to choose a pen name. They say use a professional sounding name. Should I use my real name or do you think it would be better to come up with a name that sounds more like a "writers" name?

      Opinions?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Okay, my Constant Content account has been deleted so I have to sign up again.

        I see I have to choose a pen name. They say use a professional sounding name. Should I use my real name or do you think it would be better to come up with a name that sounds more like a "writers" name?

        Opinions?
        Steven, I'm reaching my hands through the monitor to slap some sense into you. haha

        Just sign up! Stop second guessing every little detail otherwise you might as well just crawl into a fetal position and cry yourself asleep.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

          Steven, I'm reaching my hands through the monitor to slap some sense into you.
          Hey! There's a line!


          ..
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  • Profile picture of the author NeedBucksNow
    Good thread. Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to make money if you can find the right audience. Seem like some tough products to be trying to make money with though. I would say stick with what worked before & if you are a good writer whip up a blog & put some good articles on there in order to get traffic to them plus adsense & amazon ads. I saw that you have over 17K posts & that truly makes you a veteran warrior I would say. I would be happy with a 10th of that one day but it's nice to see that you can still get help if you need it & it's never too late to start over.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
    Another idea. Use some of your old EZA articles that haven't been indexed yet and have "how to" information in them, touch them up and sell them as Kindle books. Sell them cheap and use them as lead magnets to send people back to your site and sign up to your list, buy offers that you have there, etc.

    Just a thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    One more question...do they accept original recordings of public domain music?

    For example, will they let you record the Bach song that's used in all the horror movies?


    (BTW, this Bach Youtube video has over 22 MILLION views...)

    A quick search shows Audio Jungle does have Bach songs...They don't have big sales numbers, but they may not be marketed correctly. I'd use "horror" keywords for the Bach song I posted above...

    Instead of always being original, maybe there's some songs in the public domain you can do too?
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Are you planning to offer a package of royalty free songs as a WSO? You could use JVZoo and offer a nice commission. I've noticed that suchlike like packages actually sold pretty well on JVZoo. I'd buy it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      If I bust my ass creating killer trailer tracks and they all get rejected then I'll know this isn't for me.
      Here's an obvious suggestion, but easy to overlook during the frenzy of creation - do yourself a favor and go for quality over quantity.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      Are you planning to offer a package of royalty free songs as a WSO? You could use JVZoo and offer a nice commission. I've noticed that suchlike like packages actually sold pretty well on JVZoo. I'd buy it.
      I have seen a couple of royalty free WSOs posted here. Judging by the number of views they don't appear to be big sellers but yeah, it's certainly worth giving it a shot. But I would need to come up with a decent quantity of really good material (Audio Jungle quality) in order to make it appealing enough. What I have right now, if I'm totally honest with myself, isn't going to cut it.

      But yes, this is something I will definitely consider for the future.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Okay, I just wrote my WFH copy and submitted it for approval. After it's approved, I'll pay for it and then we'll see what happens.

        A lot of people are going to tell me that I'm insane for the strategy I'm using there, but I know what I'm doing. I'm weeding out the people who are looking for SEO fodder and expecting 3,000 word articles for $2. It's not going to happen.

        By using this strategy, I'm going after a very specific kind of client. If they don't exist, they don't exist. Constant Content and TextBrokers will be my "write for slave wages" outlets. I'm accepting that.

        I won't accept it here. I think premium clients exist at the WF.

        If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

        But that's who I'm going after.
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
          Let's face it Steven, when you allow your self destructive arrogance to well up, you usually do end up being wrong.

          I thought I was bad at overthinking things but you really take the Oscar.

          You almost had a good strategy going when you signed up for two article writing sites, but because they have 7 day delays you've gone off on another tangent.

          iWriter offered you an excellent opportunity but because they have a probationary period where you 'only' get $1 per 150 words you have rejected them out of hand saying 'I won't work for that'. But if you swallowed your pride you could have used the 7 day period on the other two sites building your writing reputation on iWriter and in a week's time you would have three reasonable income streams.

          But no. You have set off on yet another wild goose chase.

          Pick music, pick writing, pick ANYTHING. Swallow that self-destructive pride and put your back into succeeding. That's if you really want to.

          Otherwise carry on with the woe is me threads, which seem to be satisfying your craving for attention, if not your need for cash.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Martin Avis View Post

            Let's face it Steven, when you allow your self destructive arrogance to well up, you usually do end up being wrong.

            I thought I was bad at overthinking things but you really take the Oscar.

            You almost had a good strategy going when you signed up for two article writing sites, but because they have 7 day delays you've gone off on another tangent.

            iWriter offered you an excellent opportunity but because they have a probationary period where you 'only' get $1 per 150 words you have rejected them out of hand saying 'I won't work for that'. But if you swallowed your pride you could have used the 7 day period on the other two sites building your writing reputation on iWriter and in a week's time you would have three reasonable income streams.

            But no. You have set off on yet another wild goose chase.

            Pick music, pick writing, pick ANYTHING. Swallow that self-destructive pride and put your back into succeeding. That's if you really want to.

            Otherwise carry on with the woe is me threads, which seem to be satisfying your craving for attention, if not your need for cash.
            Martin, I appreciate your remarks but I draw the line at writing for $1 for 150 words. The research time to write a 1,000 word article would take me 3 or 4 hours. The fee comes to a little over $6. That's about $2 per hour.

            I can drive 10 minutes to my friend Steve's comic store (he's always looking for help sorting cards) and make $7 an hour for 4 hours work or $28 that day. So why would I write for $6 for 3 or 4 hours work when I can drive 10 minutes and make $28 for 4 hours work?

            It makes no logical sense at all.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Martin, I appreciate your remarks but I draw the line at writing for $1 for 150 words. The research time to write a 1,000 word article would take me 3 or 4 hours. The fee comes to a little over $6. That's about $2 per hour.

              I can drive 10 minutes to my friend Steve's comic store (he's always looking for help sorting cards) and make $7 an hour for 4 hours work or $28 that day. So why would I write for $6 for 3 or 4 hours work when I can drive 10 minutes and make $28 for 4 hours work?

              It makes no logical sense at all.
              Why not do that then? You said you'd take $600 a month. Here's your chance - 21 days (not accounting for taxes) and you'll have your $600.

              Sounds like a winner to me. No pressure, get some money coming in, no more nasty thread endings (I've got a feeling of deja vu that is trying to sneak in here) and figure out what you want to do while you are getting some much needed income and confidence built back up.

              Mark
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                Why not do that then? You said you'd take $600 a month. Here's your chance - 21 days (not accounting for taxes) and you'll have your $600.

                Sounds like a winner to me. No pressure, get some money coming in, no more nasty thread endings (I've got a feeling of deja vu that is trying to sneak in here) and figure out what you want to do while you are getting some much needed income and confidence built back up.

                Mark
                If the article writing and Audio Jungle thing doesn't work out (I'll give it a month) I just might do that.

                Like I said, I have a plan. I'll be fine now.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Martin, I appreciate your remarks but I draw the line at writing for $1 for 150 words. The research time to write a 1,000 word article would take me 3 or 4 hours. The fee comes to a little over $6. That's about $2 per hour.

              I can drive 10 minutes to my friend Steve's comic store (he's always looking for help sorting cards) and make $7 an hour for 4 hours work or $28 that day. So why would I write for $6 for 3 or 4 hours work when I can drive 10 minutes and make $28 for 4 hours work?

              It makes no logical sense at all.
              I'm sorry but your time is worth zero at the moment. All you have is time. A lot of people have to make their bones and prove themselves before getting a better income and you aren't excluded in that.

              I'm disappointed that you're taking the "I'm too good to write for peanuts, including your WFH thread, when you are at zero ground. You will shoot yourself in the foot at every turn. You say you know what you're doing. You obviously don't or you wouldn't keep asking us for advice. You might have been able to turn yourself around if you just followed advice and got off your high horse. Steven, your horse isn't high anymore. It's been whittled down by failure.

              You are not too good to do anything legal and moral. Period.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Okay, this ends here. Before anybody else wants to criticize me for my decisions.

              I have done what people have told me to do.

              I signed up with Constant Content and TextBrokers and am waiting approval. I will write for their fees, as little as they will be. But I draw the line at iWriter when i can make more going to my friend's store.

              I am going after premium clients at WFH. I'm not talking about $50 for an article. But I'm not writing $2 SEO fodder that will take me hours to do on subjects that I will have to research. Again, I might as well go to my friend's store and sort cards.

              I am going to Audio Jungle this week while waiting for approval from the article directories to check out the competition and see what I have to submit to make money there.

              I have a plan and I am executing that plan.

              I am sorry if not wanting to write for slave wages at iWriter, for some of you, makes me the old "I'm not listening to the forum" me again. But I draw the line there. It will make me no money worth talking about.

              That's it. This ends here. If you don't like my plan, respect my plan. At least I have one. I WILL make a few hundred dollars in October by executing THIS plan. That much I am sure of.

              Thank you for your concern. I have this under control now.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                That's it. This ends here. If you don't like my plan, respect my plan. At least I have one. I WILL make a few hundred dollars in October by executing THIS plan. That much I am sure of.

                Thank you for your concern. I have this under control now.
                This is the third or fourth time I've read this almost exact statement from you.

                Mark
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                  This is the third or fourth time I've read this almost exact statement from you.

                  Mark
                  And this is the first time I'll be writing articles for other people in 11 years, assuming the two directories even approve my application.

                  Like I said, if this doesn't work out (I give it one month) I'm going to work at my friends store. So 30 days from when I get approval from the directories, I will come back here, report my income, if any, and then make my decision as to whether it's better to just go out and get a part time job with my friend who will be more than happy to have me there.

                  That to me is a solid 30 day plan even if some don't agree with it.
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                • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                  This is the third or fourth time I've read this almost exact statement from you.

                  Mark
                  In almost as many threads about the same old thing too.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    Martin, I appreciate your remarks but I draw the line at writing for $1 for 150 words. The research time to write a 1,000 word article would take me 3 or 4 hours. The fee comes to a little over $6. That's about $2 per hour.

                    I can drive 10 minutes to my friend Steve's comic store (he's always looking for help sorting cards) and make $7 an hour for 4 hours work or $28 that day. So why would I write for $6 for 3 or 4 hours work when I can drive 10 minutes and make $28 for 4 hours work?

                    It makes no logical sense at all.
                    It makes no logical sense if you're only looking at the beginning. If you look at the big picture, those first "budget" articles are the doorway to bigger paydays because once you walk through that door you can go for the higher paying jobs.

                    That's how it makes sense.

                    You could do that AND the comic book store. Which one will pay better three months from now?
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Okay, this ends here. Before anybody else wants to criticize me for my decisions.

                I have done what people have told me to do.

                I signed up with Constant Content and TextBrokers and am waiting approval. I will write for their fees, as little as they will be. But I draw the line at iWriter when i can make more going to my friend's store.

                I am going after premium clients at WFH. I'm not talking about $50 for an article. But I'm not writing $2 SEO fodder that will take me hours to do on subjects that I will have to research. Again, I might as well go to my friend's store and sort cards.

                I am going to Audio Jungle this week while waiting for approval from the article directories to check out the competition and see what I have to submit to make money there.

                I have a plan and I am executing that plan.

                I am sorry if not wanting to write for slave wages at iWriter, for some of you, makes me the old "I'm not listening to the forum" me again. But I draw the line there. It will make me no money worth talking about.

                That's it. This ends here. If you don't like my plan, respect my plan. At least I have one. I WILL make a few hundred dollars in October by executing THIS plan. That much I am sure of.

                Thank you for your concern. I have this under control now.
                You only get to open a thread. Not end one. Your arrogance is showing again. I wondered if it would in this final end all be all thread. You have not followed directions. You signed up to some text sites. You refuse one because you'd have to prove yourself. You mention you could make more at some friends' store, but do you actually do that instead of writing to prove your writing ability? I have my doubts. Then you do the WFH thread and target the elite customer. Elite customers in that section are few and far between, so I don't really have high hopes that your thread will be successful. It could have been, though. Mine certainly was. The bulk of people in that forum price shop. You don't have a reputation as an elite writer to attract the odd stray looking for one, but you could have built that reputation up in that thread and had it full of glowing reviews, which just brings in more business. You could have slowly and carefully upped your prices over time, but you chose the imaginary elite market on the WF.

                So ... we don't have to end it and we don't have to respect your plan. Do what you do. It's working for you, no?
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  You only get to open a thread. Not end one. Your arrogance is showing again. I wondered if it would in this final end all be all thread. You have not followed directions. You signed up to some text sites. You refuse one because you'd have to prove yourself. You mention you could make more at some friends' store, but do you actually do that instead of writing to prove your writing ability? I have my doubts. Then you do the WFH thread and target the elite customer. Elite customers in that section are few and far between, so I don't really have high hopes that your thread will be successful. It could have been, though. Mine certainly was. The bulk of people in that forum price shop. You don't have a reputation as an elite writer to attract the odd stray looking for one, but you could have built that reputation up in that thread and had it full of glowing reviews, which just brings in more business. You could have slowly and carefully upped your prices over time, but you chose the imaginary elite market on the WF.

                  So ... we don't have to end it and we don't have to respect your plan. Do what you do. It's working for you, no?
                  What you mean is I have not followed "all" your directions. So if you gave me a list of 100 things to do and I only did 99 of them then I would again be guilty of not following your directions.

                  Then fine. You are right Suzanne. I have not followed your directions. I have listened to the advice in this thread, have used some of it and rejected some of it. That is my choice to make. I made it based on options open to me, one being able to work at my friend's store IF I want to.

                  30 days from my approval at Constant Content and TextBrokers I will come back here and report my income, which will be at least $300 and prove that I did the right thing for myself.

                  Sorry that I once again disappointed you because I didn't follow your instructions to the letter. We all have our limits as to what we will and will not do. If you told me that in order to be successful I had to do whatever and I found that to be against my tolerance level, I would have said no to that as well.

                  If I am doing something that is so reprehensible to me that it sinks me into a deep depression because I hate doing it, what good does that thing actually do me?

                  It does me no good at all.

                  Writing for iWriter at those rates will do just that and therefore that's where I draw the line.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    What you mean is I have not followed "all" your directions. So if you gave me a list of 100 things to do and I only did 99 of them then I would again be guilty of not following your directions.

                    Then fine. You are right Suzanne. I have not followed your directions. I have listened to the advice in this thread, have used some of it and rejected some of it. That is my choice to make. I made it based on options open to me, one being able to work at my friend's store IF I want to.

                    30 days from my approval at Constant Content and TextBrokers I will come back here and report my income, which will be at least $300 and prove that I did the right thing for myself.

                    Sorry that I once again disappointed you because I didn't follow your instructions to the letter. We all have our limits as to what we will and will not do. If you told me that in order to be successful I had to do whatever and I found that to be against my tolerance level, I would have said no to that as well.

                    If I am doing something that is so reprehensible to me that it sinks me into a deep depression because I hate doing it, what good does that thing actually do me?

                    It does me no good at all.

                    Writing for iWriter at those rates will do just that and therefore that's where I draw the line.
                    Whatever Steve. This is the same old shit different day thread. I attempted to help you and probably should have just resisted. Steve does things Steve's way. You actually haven't followed any of my suggestions. When you put your own untried twist on a suggestion, when I have tried and succeeded with the suggestion I gave, you are still doing what Steve does best and what Steve does best is give excuses why anyone else's suggestions won't work. The WFH suggestion ... I said: As long as your prices are reasonable ... that means competitive in the WFH marketplace. That doesn't mean targeting an elite market that barely exists here and that you haven't qualified yourself to be in. I saw your writing on Ezine. Nothing elite about it. It's just grammatically correct with no spelling errors ... but it wasn't compelling in any way. You could sell it here ... at competitive prices. So you just sit around broke and whining over and over again and draw all your little lines in the sand. Stop asking WF for advice is my new advice. You never really like it or put it to good use.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Martin, I appreciate your remarks but I draw the line at writing for $1 for 150 words. The research time to write a 1,000 word article would take me 3 or 4 hours. The fee comes to a little over $6. That's about $2 per hour.

              I can drive 10 minutes to my friend Steve's comic store (he's always looking for help sorting cards) and make $7 an hour for 4 hours work or $28 that day. So why would I write for $6 for 3 or 4 hours work when I can drive 10 minutes and make $28 for 4 hours work?

              It makes no logical sense at all.
              The problem with this logic is that it takes you 3-4 hours to research a single 1000 word article. This is a serious handicap that needs to be corrected. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to research and 30 minutes to write a 1000 word article. Is your connection speed 9600 baud?

              The next flaw is that this rate is permanent. A week from now, the comic book store will still pay $7 while iWriter's pay will increase.

              With that said, if you like working at the store, give it a go.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                The problem with this logic is that it takes you 3-4 hours to research a single 1000 word article. This is a serious handicap that needs to be corrected. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to research and 30 minutes to write a 1000 word article. Is your connection speed 9600 baud?

                The next flaw is that this rate is permanent. A week from now, the comic book store will still pay $7 while iWriter's pay will increase.

                With that said, if you like working at the store, give it a go.
                The reason it takes me that long is because all the writing I've been doing the past 8 years has been for myself. I haven't had to research an article in ages. I don't even remember how I did it. I would have to relearn the process all over again. This is one of the reasons why I stopped writing for other people. It was taking me too long to write one article and I was making decent money at the time too. But hourly it was coming out to less than $5 an hour. I am just a bad researcher. It's a skill I will have to seriously work on but for now, it's a major handicap.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  The reason it takes me that long is because all the writing I've been doing the past 8 years has been for myself. I haven't had to research an article in ages. I don't even remember how I did it. I would have to relearn the process all over again. This is one of the reasons why I stopped writing for other people. It was taking me too long to write one article and I was making decent money at the time too. But hourly it was coming out to less than $5 an hour. I am just a bad researcher. It's a skill I will have to seriously work on but for now, it's a major handicap.
                  Step #1. Research how to research.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    Step #1. Research how to research.
                    Yep, that's probably something I need to put on my to-do list ASAP.

                    Okay, folks here it is and then I really have to get to work as I've spent way too much time here this morning.

                    My plan:

                    1) Write for Constant Content

                    2) Write for TextBrokers

                    3) Get what few "premium" clients I can get from WFH. At worst, it's $20 invested into something that didn't work. At best. I make some decent money writing.

                    4) Submit tracks to Audio Jungle after thoroughly researching the site. This will probably take me most of this week while I'm waiting for Constant Content and TextBrokers to approve me, if they do.

                    5) Whatever time I have left after 5 PM (I will work 7 to 5 each day on the above) work on my other projects trying to get them working for me.

                    That's it. This leaves no time for me to be posting at the forum anymore. So leave your comments if you wish. I will try to read them when and if I can but I have a crap ton of work to do.

                    It's time for me to start making at least some money.
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      That's it. This leaves no time for me to be posting at the forum anymore. So leave your comments if you wish. I will try to read them when and if I can but I have a crap ton of work to do.

                      It's time for me to start making at least some money.
                      yawn .... another no time to be posting on WF post. I'm done caring about your plan or finances. You are incapable of change.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              A lot of people are going to tell me that I'm insane for the strategy I'm using there, but I know what I'm doing. I'm weeding out the people who are looking for SEO fodder and expecting 3,000 word articles for $2. It's not going to happen.
              Why do I think you've taken a simple suggestion and turned into a complex set of options? There are some good writers here - and they aren't writing 3000 words for $2.

              I've read many of your articles. They are well written and interesting - but for the most part, they are about YOU. Your viewpoints, your opinion, your rant, your experience, your expectations. When you write for others, it's not about you. It shouldn't take 3-4 hrs of research to write on a general niche topic either.

              Keren gave you an excellent suggestion above - and you didn't even acknowledge it. For a musician - it was an excellent idea.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                This leaves no time for me to be posting at the forum anymore.
                Oh dear, whatever shall we do?
                Signature
                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Steven,

                  Since this thread began and not including the last few posts and yes, I have too much time on my hands today but you've now written well over 8000 words in this thread alone. If you cherry picked the 500 word articles on iWriter, research aside, you'd be well on your way to finishing those first 30 articles in the time spent writing in this thread.

                  EDIT. Yes, I actually copy and pasted all his posts into word and checked the word count. It sure beat watching the news and the endless Scottish referendum stuff we're being bombarded with.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          A lot of people are going to tell me that I'm insane for the strategy I'm using there, but I know what I'm doing. I'm weeding out the people who are looking for SEO fodder and expecting 3,000 word articles for $2. It's not going to happen.

          By using this strategy, I'm going after a very specific kind of client. If they don't exist, they don't exist. Constant Content and TextBrokers will be my "write for slave wages" outlets. I'm accepting that.
          Sorry but isn't Steven taking and following advice here?

          He's trying 2 avenues, one to try and bring in bigger money and the other to bring in smaller money.

          It's only iWriter he seems to have turned down because all he has to do to beat that is pop round the corner to see a mate.

          I don't think he's saying I'm too good to right for little, more I'll try and write for little on Constant Content and the other and try my chance at something a bit bolder with the WFH thread.

          I know there have been a few pity me threads, I know he's grated a few people, I know some people don't like the pity me threads but he does seem to be trying what people have suggested, apart from iWriter, which doesn't pay well at the start though I admit readily, if I was in his shoes, I'd be doing that too.

          I'm not criticising anyone either, just saying the only reason he doesn't want iWriter is becasue he can earn that easily at his friends shop, which is something else I'd also be doing.

          Steven, if you're desperate, just try everything. Even iWriter, may not be much for the first 30 or so articles but it's reasonable afterwards.

          And don't let this thread become something that ruins your day.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I have seen a couple of royalty free WSOs posted here. Judging by the number of views they don't appear to be big sellers but yeah, it's certainly worth giving it a shot. But I would need to come up with a decent quantity of really good material (Audio Jungle quality) in order to make it appealing enough. What I have right now, if I'm totally honest with myself, isn't going to cut it.

        But yes, this is something I will definitely consider for the future.
        I bet if you selected from your present collection you'd make sales. People must be buying those royalty free music WSOs because I've seen several videos using the music of them. I know I'll buy whatever you put into a package, especially knowing that you're setting your high standards for it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          I bet if you selected from your present collection you'd make sales. People must be buying those royalty free music WSOs because I've seen several videos using the music of them. I know I'll buy whatever you put into a package, especially knowing that you're setting your high standards for it.
          Of he could go one step further than the others, sell a package of them with either master resale rights or private label rights. One upping the competition in value is usually a pretty good strategy for sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Um...Steve? I've been reading through here and see that you have one major problem that isn't gonna solve itself. You have a lot of options - and you CAN take some of them easy enough - you just don't want to and that's the all and everything of it.

    You're burned out. Doesn't matter what you're good at or aren't because you're burned. Get the hell out of the house and go do some nature immersion. Not sure what your natural habitats are near you but - get out into some trees or onto some beaches. Get some sun on that probably pasty grey skin of yours and do some walking barefoot on the grass and sand. Forget that you are an adult for awhile, forget that you need to support yourself and just go get a change of scenery - and a rest. Get away from your house, your family, your church, town -- everything familiar - ditch it and for a week or so just enjoy being where you are when you are there and don't think about anything else but your present surroundings.

    After a break, start thinking of things and of contacts you have that might be interested in doing something together or might need your skills. Maybe you can get to some open local mic nights and talk to the performers - find out what works for them or where they fall short on what they need to get ahead. Maybe you have some equipment that they can't afford and would kill to rent. etc. etc. etc.

    There's all sorts of stuff to do, angles to pursue -- but you're not going to make it at any of them until you solve the burn-out problem. Serious.
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    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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  • Profile picture of the author Flyingpig7
    Hi Steve,

    I don't wish to fan the flames of all the above valuable suggestions all sound great to get into action now and to keep moving.

    But have you thought of combining your passion with your skill? What I mean is writing music reviews or guest posting on music sites. For example Slicethepie.com accepts paid reviews they also have a track listening thing before writing. I'm told the longer the better your review and there is a variety of music; you can probably very quickly get up to speed on what is modern/current with music.

    I don't know if that appeals to you Steve or gets your enthusiasm for writing going. Mixing the plr for a variety of topics with a timeout to do something you really like writing about music and get paid for it all.

    Just a thought.

    Keren
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    From what I've seen you've literally done a 360 & right back where you started (articles, music, articles). If my calculations are correct you'll be back at music in 6 months.

    I'm not about to read the full 3 pages in this thread but the part I did read didn't mention you having any targeted traffic. Without targeted traffic none of this other stuff matters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nate Simms
    Are you serious with that WFH thread?

    ... it is like you are trying to fail on purpose. You will be lucky to even have people read whatever that disaster is that you call a "sales pitch."
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Nate Simms View Post

      Are you serious with that WFH thread?

      ... it is like you are trying to fail on purpose. You will be lucky to even have people read whatever that disaster is that you call a "sales pitch."
      lol. It's the worst I've ever seen and I've read quite a few. This is supposed to be a plus for hiring Steve:

      I've caused more fights at this forum than George Forman after going on an all night bender. The bodies can be found all over this place.
      Any questions, ask.
      You will always get a to-the-point, blunt response.
      I don't sugarcoat my venom.
      When my readers die a little bit, at least they know why they're dying.
      I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but if you want stuff that jumps off the page, grabs your reader by the throat, and bashes his skull into the coffee table, I'm the one you want.
      And if you want to see how serious he is about making bucks writing

      Just so you know, I don't write every for every subject. I'm a perfectionist and picky as hell as to the kind of work I take on. So if you post here requesting a certain topic and I decline to write for it, don't take it personally.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Just read the ad. Why would anyone want to hire someone so self-important, arrogant and pretentious? Working with someone like that would be a total PITA.

        It's hard to believe after all the advice - Steven just sabotaged himself again.

        I'd say go for the comic book store and hope you can keep the job.
        Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Just read the ad. Why would anyone want to hire someone so self-important, arrogant and pretentious? Working with someone like that would be a total PITA.

          It's hard to believe after all the advice - Steven just sabotaged himself again.

          I'd say go for the comic book store and hope you can keep the job.
          It just boggles the mind. Warrior Forum duped again into taking the time to advise Steve and try to help, and this is his takeaway from the suggestions. Boy, you hit the nail on the head .... self-important, arrogant and pretentious
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            It just boggles the mind. Warrior Forum duped again into taking the time to advise Steve and try to help, and this is his takeaway from the suggestions. Boy, you hit the nail on the head .... self-important, arrogant and pretentious
            Speaking for myself, I haven't been "duped". A while back, Steven helped me out when I needed it. I have a very good memory, especially for those that helped me.

            Also, when I post I realize that others may (or may not) benefit from my posts.

            But I do agree his sales letter and positioning is pretty bad. The number 1 rule of copywriting is to talk about "you" and not "me, myself and I".

            Even more troubling to me is Steven's OP in this thread and how he says he should have been a nicer guy. I think in his position his WF ad may have been better if he actually tried to help other people instead of being so narcissistic.

            Steven...Those "low paying" article buyers may well be the people you need help from in a few years. You are making the very same mistake you talked about in your OP.

            "Imagine" if your first priority was to help them, instead of being able to charge as much as possible?

            Think about it...

            Imagine, 6 years ago when I first came to this forum, I had acted responsibly. Didn't act like a horses ass, was helpful to other members, made friends in the industry, kept up with the Google changes and adjusted accordingly.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Speaking for myself, I haven't been "duped". A while back, Steven helped me out when I needed it. I have a very good memory, especially for those that helped me.
              .....

              But I do agree his sales letter and positioning is pretty bad. The number 1 rule of copywriting is to talk about "you" and not "me, myself and I".

              Even more troubling to me is Steven's OP in this thread and how he says he should have been a nicer guy. I think in his position his WF ad may have been better if he actually tried to help other people instead of being so narcissistic.

              Steven...Those "low paying" article buyers may well be the people you need help from in a few years. You are making the very same mistake you talked about in your OP.

              "Imagine" if your first priority was to help them, instead of being able to charge as much as possible?

              Think about it...
              That's good that you remember people who have helped you. I've never asked Steve for any help and several have posted here that they helped Steve and never got so much as a thank you. I've avoided giving suggestions to him until this thread because of the way everyone elses' suggestions were received in other threads. It's gotten to the point where I think Steve is an attention whore. He is getting nothing from these threads. He's not taking advice and is doing things his way and his way ain't working.

              If that for Hire thread shows off his skill as a writer, I'll doubt he'll get a bite. It's god awful. I just listened to his music and I can't say that I think he has a viable product there.

              I was waiting to see how this thread developed to offer him a woocommerce setup free to sell some plr on, but at this point, I don't see that happening. I really don't trust Steve at this point. I feel like he's playing the WF like a fiddle ... only playing it badly.
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            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
              I can relate to what Steve went through. At my IM peak I was making 6 figures and was sure I would be making 10 times that within a few more years. Unfortunately it didn't work out that way for various reasons and my income disappeared almost completely. I hit rock bottom.

              I got a job though. Outside of IM. It wasn't a good job and I didn't like it but I did it because that is what I have always done. Worked. Then I got a slightly better job and then a slightly better job. Meanwhile I have been focused on my art these past few years more than I have been in decades. I like the direction I am going with it and it could turn into a full time career, but mostly I just wanted to just be doing it. I've kept doing some IM related stuff on a small scale and still might get back into it more in the future and, like Steve, try to tie it in with my art.

              I don't understand the "I don't want to do a job I hate" mentality. I have always told my kids ( although they don't seem to listen to this advice much ) "Always be working. If you don't like a job, look for a better one while you are still working the one you don't like, but always be working".
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    This is just like the WSO thread offer he put up. It's almost like he did it to shut people up that were trying to help him by saying "see I put it up and no one bought so now go away so I can do what I want to."

    He didn't do any marketing and in fact while the WSO was up he was downing the forum and almost everyone associated with it. You think a potential buyer that was doing his or her due diligence by looking at past posts would be impressed enough to buy that WSO or now this offer?

    I think in the end the only one with any sane thinking about this whole deal is Gordon.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I agree with Sal about going into nature and "going into the silence".
    Take a break and let the answers come instead of trying to force things and rush
    into this and that. That said, I do have some ideas to throw your way and don't care
    if you do them or not.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There is a lot to be said for positioning and getting the more sophisticated client(s) who
    actually have money.


    Whilst there are a lot of bargain hunters here and other places, there are some people
    who will pay decent to high for quality services such as writing for web content and articles.
    You don't need that many clients, really, to get to your $600 minimum. I had one offline
    project that paid $1200 for about a month of part-time work. It was writing web content
    for an authority type site in an industry I used to work in. (I saw their post on Craigslist
    in the gigs section - computer , not writing. So you have to check both or all gigs sections.)

    There is one successful offline consultant who wrote a post about advertising on Craigslist
    at the 5 or 10 k for web design and IM services. It worked. It set him above the competition.
    It landed him clients who knew they needed to spend more than the $99 to $499 website stuff
    to get the marketing results they desired. He does have the chops and the professional marketing
    collateral/website/internet presence to match.

    I've posted before about how I have no skill for the music industry - I saw "The Fray" play in a
    small venue where I worked and thought they were so-so. The sound man, who in his day was
    in a band fairly popular all over Europe, thought otherwise. About two years later "The Fray" was
    selling out Red Rocks and other large venues for two to three nights in a row. lol

    Anyway, I have no idea about the quality of your music and even if I did have an idea, it would
    not be worth much. lol But, you do seem to know and love music, so how about - for one of a
    few long term plans -working on your own authority site about the music genres you like or
    love - at least like - and monetizing by ads and affiliate programs for most things music related.
    From local studios and instructors to instruments and retailers and downloads...

    Good luck.

    Dan

    Perhaps work mostly from home for an offline marketing agency as an employee or contactor?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    In fairness, it looks like Steven took our advice and modified his sales letter. I think there may be hope yet.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      In fairness, it looks like Steven took our advice and modified his sales letter. I think there may be hope yet.
      Much better. The thing about the WFH thread is that the majority really do price shop. I always put my prices right out there so they don't have to guess. If you make people contact you without them knowing a ballpark figure, they may just leave because there is plenty of competition there.

      I know different writing assignments will fetch different prices, but he should work up a list of say articles: 500 word, 1000 words and give the pricing for that and let them ask about other types of writing assignments. An idea of turnaround time is important to buyers also. Now that he's gotten rid of the extreme stuff, there's room for a bit more hype and details.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Much better. The thing about the WFH thread is that the majority really do price shop. I always put my prices right out there so they don't have to guess. If you make people contact you without them knowing a ballpark figure, they may just leave because there is plenty of competition there.

        I know different writing assignments will fetch different prices, but he should work up a list of say articles: 500 word, 1000 words and give the pricing for that and let them ask about other types of writing assignments. An idea of turnaround time is important to buyers also. Now that he's gotten rid of the extreme stuff, there's room for a bit more hype and details.
        You and Kay know far more about this than I do. But I do agree that posting rates will save everyone concerned some time and hassle.

        And from a copywriting point of view, what do WF clients want? I'm guessing:

        Cheap (affordable)
        Fast
        Easy
        Honest
        Dependable

        If it were me and I was posting an ad for writing services, I'd focus on these points...maybe something like "Once I receive your down payment, get it in 24 hours, or double your money back".

        Of course, there would have to be conditions, such as for order of 5 articles or less, etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          You and Kay know far more about this than I do. But I do agree that posting rates will save everyone concerned some time and hassle.

          And from a copywriting point of view, what do WF clients want? I'm guessing:

          Cheap (affordable)
          Fast
          Easy
          Honest
          Dependable

          If it were me and I was posting an ad for writing services, I'd focus on these points...maybe something like "Once I receive your down payment, get it in 24 hours, or double your money back".

          Of course, there would have to be conditions, such as for order of 5 articles or less, etc.
          While they do price shop and some will pick purely on price alone (and often live to regret it), they want reasonable price and they want to be able to absolutely depend on the fact that you will have it delivered by the time you say you will. They have deadlines and they want to meet them. I catered to the people willing to pay medium price for quality rather than purely dirt cheap and fast... but here's the thing. You can call yourself an elite writer or high end designer, but you really do have to prove it. I started my listing at a low price and raised the price twice by small increments until I was charging what I wanted to charge (medium range). It was for graphic design services. It got to a point where I was getting backed up with so much work and had to shut the thread to catch up.

          I've seen some high end pricing going on - ones with a genuine reputation can pull it off (like I do the sales pages for Kern and blah blah), but generally, without that kind of rep. those high end prices don't really get the action the lower priced threads do.

          Joe Robinson was one who was famously dissatisfied with WFH pricing for writing. He "said" he made big bucks off the forum, but things he said made it seem otherwise. He priced himself as elite. Did not do well on WF.

          My work was paid in advance, although I would consider 50%, but never have really. When I hired writers, I paid in advance also. Never had a problem but I really vetted the people I worked with.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    When I read every post in such a long thread I feel it is my duty reply and say something. My 1st day back on WF I suggested the warrior for hire section for Steven and From the last few posts seems one has been opened ... ( Where is it how do I find it)

    Steve please put your warrior for hire thread in your signature, I used to help Cathy write $10 per 500 word articles and we worked really hard with a fraction of your writing talent and never ever were without work So charge $20 per 500 words for niches you have experience in and $12 for other niches.

    Suzanne I feel your frustration and you have said some thing I was thinking ... however as someone who has ridden the depression vortex all the way to the bottom, Steven you are depressed with good reason. But these replies form people must help you feel better and being paid for article work will be small victories that very quickly can help you.

    Good luck sir and please put the WFH thread link in your signature .
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Okay, I am totally confused and I really need help now.

      I was approved by TextBrokers. I am writing my first article on Doctor Who, They want a sci fi related article on a movie or TV show. I understand that. Not a problem.

      In the instructions, it says this.

      Hyperlinks (THIS APPLIES ONLY TO THE CLIENT/REQUIRED LINK):
      - Please use the given hyperlinks within your text and anchor them accordingly.
      - Please include a line break after each header.

      Examples:

      Given URL

      "According to this blog," blah blah blah...
      "According to this article," blah blah blah...
      "According to the SEJ blog," blah blah blah...
      "According to the article, "Local SEO: How to Optimize Your Website for Multiple Locations," blah blah blah...
      The URL I was given is to a music site that has nothing to do with sci fi.

      If I'm understanding the above instructions correctly, I'm supposed to use the URL they give me as anchor text in a line that says "According to <link goes here> Doctor Who..." etc.

      At least that's my understanding.

      But honestly, these instructions don't make any sense.

      If somebody has ever written for them and knows how this works, I'd be really grateful for some help on this as I am totally lost.

      And yes Kurt, talk about jumping through hoops.

      After clicking on the link just to view what the assignment was about, I was then given 9 minutes to accept it. That's it. 9 minutes.

      Well, I'm going to start writing the article but quite honestly, I don't know what I'm doing and the article has to be finished in 24 hours. Yes, that's another hoop. So it's not like I have a lot of time to even find out what's what here.

      Any clue on this will be very much appreciated.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Okay, I figured it out and it means I essentially have to lie in the article. I had to read these directions 5 times to get it.

        I'm supposed to say "According to <link goes here>"

        Then go on to say what the site says about the topic I'm writing about,

        Except the site has nothing to do with the topic I'm writing about and has nothing to say about the topic I'm writing about.

        So, I have to "make something up."

        No, I'm not crazy. That is essentially what I have to do because the instructions clearly say that I have to include the given link in the body of the article and NOT in the bio.

        So this article is nothing more than link bait to a totally unrelated site to sci fi.

        As a marketer, this drives me crazy. I know it goes on all the time but really. Do these people think that by fooling their readers they're going to get them to buy their music?

        Un freaking believable.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Okay, I figured it out and it means I essentially have to lie in the article. I had to read these directions 5 times to get it.

          I'm supposed to say "According to <link goes here>"

          Then go on to say what the site says about the topic I'm writing about,

          Except the site has nothing to do with the topic I'm writing about and has nothing to say about the topic I'm writing about.

          So, I have to "make something up."

          No, I'm not crazy. That is essentially what I have to do because the instructions clearly say that I have to include the given link in the body of the article and NOT in the bio.

          So this article is nothing more than link bait to a totally unrelated site to sci fi.

          As a marketer, this drives me crazy. I know it goes on all the time but really. Do these people think that by fooling their readers they're going to get them to buy their music?

          Un freaking believable.
          Free association and analysis - synthasize, come up with a correlation between the two. Not hard stuff, Steve. Give me the links and two sentences about the article theme I can tell you a viable correlation. I used to do this for GMI students who had to do liberal arts papers and couldn't get past the math. That's why you need a vacation - free association. It's not "lying" - it's finding significance where none seems automatically apparent.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Free association and analysis - synthasize, come up with a correlation between the two. Not hard stuff, Steve. Give me the links and two sentences about the article theme I can tell you a viable correlation. I used to do this for GMI students who had to do liberal arts papers and couldn't get past the math. That's why you need a vacation - free association. It's not "lying" - it's finding significance where none seems automatically apparent.
            Sal, it isn't physically possible here.

            The instructions for the article are explicit.

            Please write an article about sci-fi related current issues it should be very closely related to sci-fi (movies, tv series, etc.). Please see <URL> for complete instructions. Required client link is <URL>
            The client link is to a site that sells sheet music. The specific page is for violin sheet music. I have combed the whole site. There is nothing sci fi related let alone Doctor Who related.

            I mean what in God's name do I say.

            "You know, Doctor Who is so stressed with all this time travel that maybe he needs to take up a musical instrument.

            According to <URL> he could get high quality, pure digital sheet music to download and print, plus audio music files."

            Seriously? Is this what I have to do in order not to lie?

            Look, I may be a failure of a marketer these days but we all know what this is. We've all seen this. Company puts out a ton of link bait articles, That's all they are. The articles have nothing to do with the site they're linking to.

            It's the reason Google put the hammer down on article directories.

            Also, in going through the site, most of the article requests don't even have names and descriptions. Just case numbers like this one has. Dollars to donuts they're all link bait articles.

            But aside from what I suggested above about suggesting Doctor Who take up a musical instrument, I see no way of salvaging this.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Sal, it isn't physically possible here.

              The instructions for the article are explicit.



              The client link is to a site that sells sheet music. The specific page is for violin sheet music. I have combed the whole site. There is nothing sci fi related let alone Doctor Who related.

              I mean what in God's name do I say.

              "You know, Doctor Who is so stressed with all this time travel that maybe he needs to take up a musical instrument.

              According to <URL> he could get high quality, pure digital sheet music to download and print, plus audio music files."

              Seriously? Is this what I have to do in order not to lie?

              Look, I may be a failure of a marketer these days but we all know what this is. We've all seen this. Company puts out a ton of link bait articles, That's all they are. The articles have nothing to do with the site they're linking to.

              It's the reason Google put the hammer down on article directories.

              Also, in going through the site, most of the article requests don't even have names and descriptions. Just case numbers like this one has. Dollars to donuts they're all link bait articles.

              But aside from what I suggested above about suggesting Doctor Who take up a musical instrument, I see no way of salvaging this.
              Have you considered the part music plays in stirring emotions that produce a more authentic "suspension of disbelief" in Sci Fi? Maybe in Dr Who's world transportation of music from the past via these mechanisms might be important, too?

              Not physically possible? You don't have a park or a patch of trees at least anywhere near you?
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              When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Okay, I am totally confused and I really need help now.

        I was approved by TextBrokers. I am writing my first article on Doctor Who, They want a sci fi related article on a movie or TV show. I understand that. Not a problem.

        In the instructions, it says this.



        The URL I was given is to a music site that has nothing to do with sci fi.

        If I'm understanding the above instructions correctly, I'm supposed to use the URL they give me as anchor text in a line that says "According to <link goes here> Doctor Who..." etc.

        At least that's my understanding.

        But honestly, these instructions don't make any sense.

        If somebody has ever written for them and knows how this works, I'd be really grateful for some help on this as I am totally lost.

        And yes Kurt, talk about jumping through hoops.

        After clicking on the link just to view what the assignment was about, I was then given 9 minutes to accept it. That's it. 9 minutes.

        Well, I'm going to start writing the article but quite honestly, I don't know what I'm doing and the article has to be finished in 24 hours. Yes, that's another hoop. So it's not like I have a lot of time to even find out what's what here.

        Any clue on this will be very much appreciated.
        First, you should respect your client's privacy and not post links to their site here (or anywhere for that matter). You should probably delete it from your post.

        Also, you can contact the client and ask. What often happens is they post tons of article requests and use a general instructions for all requests instead of instructions for specific articles.

        And finally, you can "give back" an article if after doing some prelim research you find it may not be a good fit for you. Even though you accepted the article, you can still get out of doing it.

        Write a good article for it and just use the suggested anchor text and URL given.

        BTW, the article requests are great for your own research and ideas for your own content. Pay attention to the obvious SEOs and look at what they are doing...and why. Your client for this article is a big time SEO site, who is probably having the article written for a client of their own. Pay attention.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          First, you should respect your client's privacy and not post links to their site here (or anywhere for that matter). You should probably delete it from your post.

          Also, you can contact the client and ask. What often happens is they post tons of article requests and use a general instructions for all requests instead of instructions for specific articles.

          And finally, you can "give back" an article if after doing some prelim research you find it may not be a good fit for you. Even though you accepted the article, you can still get out of doing it.

          Write a good article for it and just use the suggested anchor text and URL given.

          BTW, the article requests are great for your own research and ideas for your own content. Pay attention to the obvious SEOs and look at what they are doing...and why. Your client for this article is a big time SEO site, who is probably having the article written for a client of their own. Pay attention.
          Kurt, I edited my post. Sorry, didn't think of that.

          But this gets even better. The instructions also say that any claims I make have to be supported by the site in the link.

          That's not physically possible as this site has nothing to do with sci fi and there is no way to contact the client as there is no contact client button, link, or anything.

          So there is just no way I can do this article. If I try, it will only get rejected and possibly get my account terminated for not following the instructions.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Kurt, I edited my post. Sorry, didn't think of that.

            But this gets even better. The instructions also say that any claims I make have to be supported by the site in the link.

            That's not physically possible as this site has nothing to do with sci fi and there is no way to contact the client as there is no contact client button, link, or anything.

            So there is just no way I can do this article. If I try, it will only get rejected and possibly get my account terminated for not following the instructions.
            If that's the case, just "uncommit" and put it back in the queue. But first, contact an editor and tell them that you're new and confused about the instructions and see what they have to say. You have the full 24 hours to put it back, without any penalty that I can remember.

            Just as writers need to do a good job, publishers also need to be clear on their instructions and not waste writers' time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    BTW, I logged into Text Broker and see there's only about 225 article requests. That is pretty low, although I have seen times when there were none. The number of request can vary greatly. They can have zero one day, then a single big client can request thousands of articles the next day.

    This is why it's important to have other options. When TB has 2000 article requests open, it's much easier to browse and find a few you can do well and do quickly.

    While I suggested you make $20 a day, there may be times when it's best to move on, and on other days write 6-10 articles to make up for the days when the pickings are slim.

    Be picky when selecting articles, then be very agressive when the circumstances merit it.

    BTW, I assume they accepted you as a 4 star writer? You'll do fine. They are mostly concerned with grammar and I was always borderline with them because of it. They won't get rid of you for bad grammar, they'll just drop you down to 3 stars, where there isn't very much work, until you improve.

    A strange thing is, I wrote articles where the client game me very good reviews for the content, but TB themselves nitpicked on the grammar.

    Again, TB is just for when you need something and have no other options. It's good for that and it pays often and on time. And you can get custom work from them after you prove yourself. But it shouldn't be your first option.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    What about Dr Who theme songs, sound tracks and musical scores?

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      What about Dr Who theme songs, sound tracks and musical scores?

      Doctor Who Themes (All of Them) - YouTube
      Son of a bitch. Wouldn't you know it? The site has the sheet music to Doomsday from Doctor Who. Okay, now I know how to link it in.

      But what if I had picked a sci fi show that was so obscure sheet music or MP3s didn't exist? Then what do I do? This was just pure dumb luck this time.

      At least I can finish the article now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Here is the music that they have the sheet music to. No MP3 or MIDI. Just sheet music.

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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Son of a bitch. Wouldn't you know it? The site has the sheet music to Doomsday from Doctor Who. Okay, now I know how to link it in.

        But what if I had picked a sci fi show that was so obscure sheet music or MP3s didn't exist? Then what do I do? This was just pure dumb luck this time.

        At least I can finish the article now.
        Then maybe next time you'll tie in something more general as I suggested? What if it hadn't had the particular score on it? What kind of emotional tie does music have to sci fi? Seriously. Sometimes you have to go very general and tie it into a specific.

        You seem to enjoy being a worrier. You're already worried about something that you're not even dealing with yet. Bet that gets in the way of creative thinking something damned furious.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Son of a bitch. Wouldn't you know it? The site has the sheet music to Doomsday from Doctor Who. Okay, now I know how to link it in.

        But what if I had picked a sci fi show that was so obscure sheet music or MP3s didn't exist? Then what do I do? This was just pure dumb luck this time.

        At least I can finish the article now.
        Old Las Vegas wisdom tells us, it's better to be lucky than good.

        I'm not really into hypotheticals in situations like this, so we'll cross that bridge when we have to.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Old Las Vegas wisdom tells us, it's better to be lucky than good.

          I'm not really into hypotheticals in situations like this, so we'll cross that bridge when we have to.
          By the way, I got an article writing job from the WFH post that may turn into a long term gig. I can't give any details for obvious reasons but if one day the person wants to come here and share what it is you'll find out then.

          I'm looking forward to it. Looks like a lot of fun.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            By the way, I got an article writing job from the WFH post that may turn into a long term gig. I can't give any details for obvious reasons but if one day the person wants to come here and share what it is you'll find out then.

            I'm looking forward to it. Looks like a lot of fun.
            That's good to hear. See what a difference 24 hours can make when you let yourself in the game?

            Look at all the options you have now that you didn't just a day ago.

            I do suggest you keep the TB thing going just a little bit, so you can always fall back on it if you have to. Don't sweat it at all. Just cherry-pick the jobs you know you can do well, easily and quickly over the next couple of weeks.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              That's good to hear. See what a difference 24 hours can make when you let yourself in the game?

              Look at all the options you have now that you didn't just a day ago.

              I do suggest you keep the TB thing going just a little bit, so you can always fall back on it if you have to. Don't sweat it at all. Just cherry-pick the jobs you know you can do well, easily and quickly over the next couple of weeks.
              Yeah. This morning I felt like crap and now I feel great. I think I'll have plenty of work to give me at least $500 a month, which is half of what I need to keep up with the bills. And no, I'm not going to worry about the other half. I'll take it one day at a time, do what I can, and let the future take care of itself as it presents itself.

              In the meantime, whatever free time I have I'm going to work on my other projects trying to get them marketable, which includes finding the right target market. I started working on my first Audio Jungle track today. Spent 4 hours on it and am not even close to being done. Most work I've ever put into one track of music and it shows. It's my best work, not just because of the quality but because I studied the market at Audio Jungle and created something that matches that market. I'm actually confident that I can realistically make 5 to 10 sales of that track per month. That's really not a lot when you look at some of the non elite members who are doing 10 to 20 per week. If the quality is good and the demand is there, it'll sell.

              For the first time in a very long time I am hopeful.

              Yes, I know I'm a pain in the ass and impossible to work with, but you good people finally reached me.

              I finished two articles today and plan to do at least two more tomorrow. That's a minimum of $15 a day even at low rates. That's $450 a month minimum. It may not sound like a lot. But to somebody who has made $1,000 this whole year, that $450 is gold.

              Someday I'll be back on top. And if not, at least I know I can make enough money to keep me from ending up on the street.
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              • Profile picture of the author George Wright
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Someday I'll be back on top.
                I'd call that a REAL... Drum Roll Please....

                Wags to Riches story.

                Looking forward to it.

                George Wright
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

                  I'd call that a REAL... Drum Roll Please....

                  Wags to Riches story.

                  Looking forward to it.

                  George Wright
                  Thanks George. And I'm glad you liked the article. I wasn't sure I had any humor left in me.

                  More coming.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                I'll take it one day at a time, do what I can, and let the future take care of itself as it presents itself.
                ...

                For the first time in a very long time I am hopeful.

                Yes, I know I'm a pain in the ass and impossible to work with, but you good people finally reached me.
                Good news to me. Quite frustrating when you can't physically reach out to someone and smack them upside the head. All I got to say ... your wife is a saint. lol.

                Stay focused. Don't spend more time on the music than you can afford until it pays off. Keep writing daily and keep your WFH thread bumped. You already got one glowing reference in there. That's what you need. Didn't look, but make sure the hire thread is in your sig.

                EDIT: It only takes a minute. Get that WFH thread in your signature. You're not making money off the links you have in your signature.
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  Good news to me. Quite frustrating when you can't physically reach out to someone and smack them upside the head. All I got to say ... your wife is a saint. lol.

                  Stay focused. Don't spend more time on the music than you can afford until it pays off. Keep writing daily and keep your WFH thread bumped. You already got one glowing reference in there. That's what you need. Didn't look, but make sure the hire thread is in your sig.

                  EDIT: It only takes a minute. Get that WFH thread in your signature. You're not making money off the links you have in your signature.
                  Done. So busy working never got around to it. It's funny how you can do something for the first time (satirical writing) and have somebody call you a genius. I wasn't even sure I could pull it off and was hesitant to take the job.

                  I guess a little self confidence is important otherwise you go on thinking that there's nothing you can that will be any good. That's the way I was starting to feel, which is so ironic because I used to think I could walk on water.

                  Life can be very humbling sometimes. Do you have any idea how grateful I am to be working?
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    Done. So busy working never got around to it. It's funny how you can do something for the first time (satirical writing) and have somebody call you a genius. I wasn't even sure I could pull it off and was hesitant to take the job.

                    I guess a little self confidence is important otherwise you go on thinking that there's nothing you can that will be any good. That's the way I was starting to feel, which is so ironic because I used to think I could walk on water.

                    Life can be very humbling sometimes. Do you have any idea how grateful I am to be working?
                    Steve, the more paid work you take, the more self confidence you'll have. Stop second guessing and over analyzing everything. It really is simple. Take the jobs. Make them work. The more you take, the better you get at giving the customer exactly what they want. Always take exceptional care of the customer, even if sometimes you don't agree with them. They are the boss.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      It's funny how you can do something for the first time (satirical writing) and have somebody call you a genius.
                      You can't believe everything you hear -you've been called worse
                      Signature
                      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                Yeah. This morning I felt like crap and now I feel great. I think I'll have plenty of work to give me at least $500 a month, which is half of what I need to keep up with the bills. And no, I'm not going to worry about the other half. I'll take it one day at a time, do what I can, and let the future take care of itself as it presents itself.

                In the meantime, whatever free time I have I'm going to work on my other projects trying to get them marketable, which includes finding the right target market. I started working on my first Audio Jungle track today. Spent 4 hours on it and am not even close to being done. Most work I've ever put into one track of music and it shows. It's my best work, not just because of the quality but because I studied the market at Audio Jungle and created something that matches that market. I'm actually confident that I can realistically make 5 to 10 sales of that track per month. That's really not a lot when you look at some of the non elite members who are doing 10 to 20 per week. If the quality is good and the demand is there, it'll sell.

                For the first time in a very long time I am hopeful.

                Yes, I know I'm a pain in the ass and impossible to work with, but you good people finally reached me.

                I finished two articles today and plan to do at least two more tomorrow. That's a minimum of $15 a day even at low rates. That's $450 a month minimum. It may not sound like a lot. But to somebody who has made $1,000 this whole year, that $450 is gold.

                Someday I'll be back on top. And if not, at least I know I can make enough money to keep me from ending up on the street.
                Just because I haven't posted, doesn't mean that I haven't been keeping an eye on this thread. Now that I know things are going fantastic for you, I'll post this in your honor. I've been silently cheering you on, but heck, it's time to go public...




                I also just wanted to let you know I still listen to your music. There are certain moods I get into that listening to those songs just soothes me and my soul.

                Keep up the good work and quit doubting you...I never have!


                Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            By the way, I got an article writing job from the WFH post that may turn into a long term gig. I can't give any details for obvious reasons but if one day the person wants to come here and share what it is you'll find out then.

            I'm looking forward to it. Looks like a lot of fun.
            That's good to hear and that you figured out the connections in the TB article to Dr. Who. Hopefully, you'll be on a roll now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        But what if I had picked a sci fi show that was so obscure sheet music or MP3s didn't exist? Then what do I do?
        Playing "what if" can be paralyzing. You simply can't account for every contingency and obstacle - in marketing or life.

        You'll just deal with it if and when it comes up.
        Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.
        - Marcus Aurelius
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        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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        • Profile picture of the author peter_act
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          Playing "what if" can be paralyzing. You simply can't account for every contingency and obstacle - in marketing or life.
          All hail, King Dennis (couldn't resist it!)

          I've just helped out with the roof repairs by buying your AAN Archives deal.

          Steven,

          Don't know if anyone has suggested it yet, but there is surely a market for snippets of music to be used in video soundtracks.

          Make them a minute long, or a loop.

          Provide samples for people to listen to, and give them meaningful tiltles, like "Chirpy1", or "Slow blues1" (for Dennis), so people can recognise them on their computer.

          I'd sell them singly. I've bought compilations of tracks for my videos in the past, paid $27 or whatever, but I only use one or two, being my favourites - I don't need the other ones.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by peter_act View Post

            All hail, King Dennis (couldn't resist it!)

            I've just helped out with the roof repairs by buying your AAN Archives deal.

            Steven,

            Don't know if anyone has suggested it yet, but there is surely a market for snippets of music to be used in video soundtracks.

            Make them a minute long, or a loop.

            Provide samples for people to listen to, and give them meaningful tiltles, like "Chirpy1", or "Slow blues1" (for Dennis), so people can recognise them on their computer.

            I'd sell them singly. I've bought compilations of tracks for my videos in the past, paid $27 or whatever, but I only use one or two, being my favourites - I don't need the other ones.
            Thanks Peter. Yeah, I'm well aware of this which is why I made my own royalty free music site which has over 5,000 tracks on it right now. But I screwed up in the implementation of it. I didn't watermark the files so they're just being ripped (thanks to a Firefox plugin) and downloaded without being paid for.

            Going back and watermarking every track would take months and right now I need to make money so I'm sticking to the writing gig. Maybe in the future I'll gut the site and redo it the right way.
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        But what if I had picked a sci fi show that was so obscure sheet music or MP3s didn't exist? Then what do I do? This was just pure dumb luck this time.
        Good @#$%ing grief.

        Here's a list of articles that could be written connecting the site to Sc-fi:

        The Dr Who theme - one of the first pieces of synthesised music;
        Great Sci-fi themes - from Dr Who to Star Wars;
        John Williams biography - the composer of the Star Wars theme;
        etc., etc..

        I know nothing about music (except what I like), and am not particularly a sc-ifi fan either, but I managed to come up with those in the space of a few seconds. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable about both could come up with hundreds more.

        I can't believe this is the same guy that arrogantly (yes, arrogantly) boasted about his prowess as a marketer, and here you are expecting every one else to solve your self-inflicted problems for you. That's right, self-inflicted. You put all your eggs in one basket, and when it went tits-up, you moan and whinge and beg everyone else to help you out.

        Your OP was right - you have burnt bridges in here. You have always come across as a smarmy, smart arsed, know it all. You are now reaping what you've sown.

        Suck it up princess. Now pull your finger out, and stop being a whiney-assed pussy and begging others to dig you out of the hole you dug for yourself.


        (PS - note to the mods - the above is what is known as reverse psychology. Others have posted helpful advice to him, and he's just ignored it, and continued whining about how some types of work are beneath him. As someone who once scrubbed out latrines at a mine-site in the middle of the Australian outback to put some coin in my pocket, I have no sympathy for anyone who won't swallow their pride in order to get back on their feet. The balls in his court now - he can either beg someone to provide him with a shoulder to cry on, or he can accept the above as some necessary tough love. I will say no more on this thread.)
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          Good @#$%ing grief.

          Here's a list of articles that could be written connecting the site to Sc-fi:

          The Dr Who theme - one of the first pieces of synthesised music;
          Great Sci-fi themes - from Dr Who to Star Wars;
          John Williams biography - the composer of the Star Wars theme;
          etc., etc..

          I know nothing about music (except what I like), and am not particularly a sc-ifi fan either, but I managed to come up with those in the space of a few seconds. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable about both could come up with hundreds more.

          I can't believe this is the same guy that arrogantly (yes, arrogantly) boasted about his prowess as a marketer, and here you are expecting every one else to solve your self-inflicted problems for you. That's right, self-inflicted. You put all your eggs in one basket, and when it went tits-up, you moan and whinge and beg everyone else to help you out.

          Your OP was right - you have burnt bridges in here. You have always come across as a smarmy, smart arsed, know it all. You are now reaping what you've sown.

          Suck it up princess. Now pull your finger out, and stop being a whiney-assed pussy and begging others to dig you out of the hole you dug for yourself.


          (PS - note to the mods - the above is what is known as reverse psychology. Others have posted helpful advice to him, and he's just ignored it, and continued whining about how some types of work are beneath him. As someone who once scrubbed out latrines at a mine-site in the middle of the Australian outback to put some coin in my pocket, I have no sympathy for anyone who won't swallow their pride in order to get back on their feet. The balls in his court now - he can either beg someone to provide him with a shoulder to cry on, or he can accept the above as some necessary tough love. I will say no more on this thread.)
          Thanks, but you're a little late to the party. Message was received. No offense taken.

          I had this coming to me.

          PS - If you like, read the above 3 or 4 posts. Like I said, message received.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Good job Steven. You took a lot of advice and it is already paying off. I'm proud of you man.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

              Good job Steven. You took a lot of advice and it is already paying off. I'm proud of you man.
              Thank you Thomas. That means a lot to me coming from you. I'm really looking forward to this one gig. It looks like a lot of fun. Can't wait until the day i can tell everybody what it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vixoma
    Hey Steven,

    I'm new in WF but I've have read your whole post and im really happy that you are already trying new things and having success with them. 450$ is a good sum to start off with a new business/venture. You need to stick with your work and new gigs and clients will come long term. Today you're making 450$ or 500$ per month, who knows if in 3 months you're making 3/4k per month from writing?

    Sometimes we just stick to what we love and keep investing in it but we dont think that maybe the topic we love is not making much money today, we just invest on it because we love it. Happened to me and I've lost a lot of money.

    I had been in the same situation than you, didnt have any money or resources to start making money again. Today i am making 5k/7k per month and travelling the world and all this from Internet marketing, affiliates, online businesses.

    My girlfriend does the same than me, she works with me with IM but she has her own campaigns running, so we have a double income.

    We were in the point where we didn't know what to do some time ago but we never gave up to Internet marketing and here we are today.

    Keep the work up and never give up, Internet is a new world with a lot of things to make money from.

    I wish you all the best,
    Take care.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Vixoma View Post

      I had been in the same situation than you, didnt have any money or resources to start making money again. Today i am making 5k/7k per month and travelling the world and all this from Internet marketing, affiliates, online businesses.

      My girlfriend does the same than me, she works with me with IM but she has her own campaigns running, so we have a double income.
      A word from the wise (Well, I wouldn't honestly call myself wise but...) Steven was making 10k a month when I joined this forum before Google moved it's goal posts so make sure while you're travelling the world having fun and spending your money to put a big chunk aside or invest in something solid so that if your business falls out of bed, which it could, you don't fall on tough times like Steven has.

      One other thing, a genuinely wise man once told me when I was in the gutter "It doesn't matter how bad your life is right now and it doesn't matter how wonderful your life is right now, one thing is certain, it'll change".
      Signature

      Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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  • Profile picture of the author Nate Simms
    Steve,

    I know I was a complete ass to you, but you sorta had it coming. Nonetheless, glad to see the writing is working out for you.

    Anyways: self-confidence is huge. I am a tenure track assistant professor in history (used the Warrior Forum to help pay my way through PhD school) and just recently got my first book accepted through peer review and editing at a tier-1 academic press.

    ... I've always been incredibly harsh on my research and writing. But, this book validates both in my opinion. And, just like me, you need to ride this wave of success as long as you can. It is the healthy (and most productive) thing to do.

    Keep on keeping on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
    Steve, you now have some positive momentum. Use it to it's fullest.

    Now, stay the hell away from the forum and this thread. The last thing you need now is to let one of your detractors knock you off course - and you know it's easy for them to do.

    Bury your head in your writing and don't come out until you've met your goal.

    Now go. Go on. Scoot.
    Signature

    If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Steve, you now have some positive momentum. Use it to it's fullest.

      Now, stay the hell away from the forum and this thread. The last thing you need now is to let one of your detractors knock you off course - and you know it's easy for them to do.

      Bury your head in your writing and don't come out until you've met your goal.

      Now go. Go on. Scoot.
      Okay Dan, I'm actually going to listen to you. This is my last post here for a very long time. I do have too much work to do to spend time at this forum. Obviously I will keep an eye out at the WFH thread for any work that comes along but I think my current client is going to keep me busy enough.

      Oh, and Suzanne, I took your advice and added pricing to the thread so there is no confusion there.

      Nate, no offense taken. I got what I deserved, I am now going to turn my life around and not just financially.

      To everybody else, thank you for all the help and the undeserved patience.

      And with that, I bid you all farewell.
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        This is my last post here for a very long time.
        I'm sure I've heard this somewhere before?
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          I'm sure I've heard this somewhere before?
          Les, I responded to JPWins post because he was under a false impression that I felt needed to be corrected.

          I responded to Peter's post because he offered me a suggestion and I didn't want to ignore his advice as I've been accused of doing that in the past and being ungrateful. Otherwise, I would have not returned to this thread.

          As far as I'm concerned, the mods can lock this up.

          But you can't push my buttons anymore Les. I've moved on with my life. I am writing articles for people and making a few dollars. It's not much but it's something. And that's all that matters.

          I wish you no ill will. I'm sorry you feel you have to take shots at me every chance you get. You must lead a very empty life.
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          • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            I am writing articles for people and making a few dollars.
            Yes I noticed. You mention it in every thread you post in.
            Congratulations by the way.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            But you can't push my buttons anymore Les. I've moved on with my life. I am writing articles for people and making a few dollars. It's not much but it's something. And that's all that matters.
            Steven. Just some advice. Stop saying "it's not much." It's infinitely more than the majority of people on this forum are making and it's infinitely more than you were making. Just keep doing it and your income will only improve. $300 in a week is more than a few dollars.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Steven -

              You've gotten two good pieces of advice from Les and from Suzanne.

              I think everyone is happy to see you on a path to making money after so much frustration on your part. The idea of writing has been suggested to you in every "woe is me" thread you've started. Finally, you have reached the point of giving it a try and seem to be realizing it's NOT a bad thing at all. There's a lot of freedom, self-expression and satisfaction that comes with freelance writing....and some good money, too!

              The two points you need to work on:

              1. Stop putting down your own efforts as "only"

              2. Stop posting about your work hours, your income, etc in EVERY post you make here. It's a bad habit you got into when things were not going well and it's a habit you need to break.

              If you could learn to post without making every post "ABOUT ME" you'd find you don't have enemies here at all.
              Signature
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              I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
      Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

      Steve, you now have some positive momentum. Use it to it's fullest.

      Now, stay the hell away from the forum and this thread. The last thing you need now is to let one of your detractors knock you off course - and you know it's easy for them to do.

      Bury your head in your writing and don't come out until you've met your goal.

      Now go. Go on. Scoot.
      ..........
      Signature

      If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post


        Steve, you now have some positive momentum. Use it to it's fullest.

        Now, stay the hell away from the forum and this thread. The last thing you need now is to let one of your detractors ]knock you off course - and you know it's easy for them to do.

        Bury your head in your writing and don't come out until you've met your goal.

        Now go. Go on. Scoot (aka Claude).
        Am I the only one that sees what Riffle is trying to do to Steven?
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    Yay!! Well Steven I am so glad you are finally writing articles as I just knew you would very very quickly get some confidence back the minute you posted a WFH thread. This has been the ultimate case of better late than never. With your ability and work ethic raise your goal immediately $1000 a month is just a start of what you are going to do. In a way I envy you because the success must seem so much sweeter after all you have been through and these hardknocks you have had if you learn from them which I know you will you are going to be twice the success you once were. Good luck sir!
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Maybe this (I'm not a user or affiliate):


    http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...oo-can-do.html
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author jpwins
    Hello Steve , I have been on Warrior forum for quite while now and I know your rep, which in my eyes was very good. I kind of getting worried because if Steve who has been doing this for a while finds it hard to make money with all the WSO available then that tells me that these WSO are garbage and I have placed my faith in the wrong thing. Please tell me its not so, as I looked at Warrior Forum as a light at the end of the tunnel.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by jpwins View Post

      Hello Steve , I have been on Warrior forum for quite while now and I know your rep, which in my eyes was very good. I kind of getting worried because if Steve who has been doing this for a while finds it hard to make money with all the WSO available then that tells me that these WSO are garbage and I have placed my faith in the wrong thing. Please tell me its not so, as I looked at Warrior Forum as a light at the end of the tunnel.
      I wasn't going to return to this thread but I felt that this needed to be responded to.

      You're looking at things all wrong.

      A WSO is not the solution to any problem either for sellers (selling them) or buyers (getting one to learn something)

      The important thing to keep in mind is that any business has to be developed and run on sound business principles and must be kept up with in order to adapt to changing times. Because I failed to do this, that's why my business collapsed. No other reason. It had nothing to do with WSOs or this forum.

      People who depend on this forum, or any ONE source, for their income, are looking for trouble.

      You need to establish a REAL business, whatever that business is. That means thoroughly researching your target market, whoever they may be, and understanding exactly what it is that they want and giving it to them. It's that simple. The rest comes down to generating traffic, which has been my biggest problem since my old business model collapsed. But again, that was my own fault for putting all my eggs into one basket.

      Don't look to this forum or its WSOs for either the problem or the solution to making money. The problem and solution begins with YOU taking responsibility for the structure of your business.

      And that is MOST people's problems from the get go.

      They don't have a REAL business.

      Solve THAT problem first and the rest will fall into place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alfred Shelver
    Maybe slightly premature but that response you gave there was really uplifting for me in many ways, It gives a sense of a new you. And the return of the best of Steven Wagenheim, it just seems that your writing success has given you a new lease on life and its great to see. Your posts for a while had so much defeat in them it was hard and sad to read. So just wanted to check in and say its very uplifting to me and your story of “ wags to riches” ( loved that ) can be extremely powerful to many.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Steven, if I could add a #3 to Kay's list above:

    3. Don't make dramatic/black/white type statements over and over again such as "once I get the answer to this one question I'm leaving this horrible place forever" or "I'm busy working so don't have time for this thread and won't be back in a long long time". (Note those aren't exact quotes but a vibe you've been putting out for awhile.

    I can think of several Les statements (and one I made - trying to be constructive - not negative) that would never have happened if you hadn't said I won't be back or this is the last time or...

    Then when someone does make a comment about these dramatic statements, that throws you in a negative place and the thread normally gets derailed which doesn't help anyone.

    I'm glad that things are starting to look up for you.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    You used to make six figures peddling eBooks and stuff Steven. That shit ain't gone out of style. Revamp your sales pages and blogs to tailor it to the newest Google algorithm for SEO. Rank those sales gateways or monetize your blogs and make that six figure income again.

    You used to be a hard ass around here, and tell folks straight. Now take yourself in the bathroom and look in the mirror and talk straight to yourself and decide what you are gonna do. Cry in your beer or get off your ass and do what you know how to do, internet marketing.

    I don't know what the hell this music shit is, but looks like you don't have the talent yet. Once you are making money the way you used to, then you can take lessons and get good at it. Till then, do what you know how to do till you can do what you love to do.

    Good luck Steven. I wondered what happened to you, I haven't seen you around here lately.
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      You used to make six figures peddling eBooks and stuff Steven. That shit ain't gone out of style. Revamp your sales pages and blogs to tailor it to the newest Google algorithm for SEO. Rank those sales gateways or monetize your blogs and make that six figure income again.

      You used to be a hard ass around here, and tell folks straight. Now take yourself in the bathroom and look in the mirror and talk straight to yourself and decide what you are gonna do. Cry in your beer or get off your ass and do what you know how to do, internet marketing.

      I don't know what the hell this music shit is, but looks like you don't have the talent yet. Once you are making money the way you used to, then you can take lessons and get good at it. Till then, do what you know how to do till you can do what you love to do.

      Good luck Steven. I wondered what happened to you, I haven't seen you around here lately.
      Hi Tim, suprised you resurrected this thread, since the other one, (got closed due to a Troll) basically said he, got clobbered! Or effectively got downgraded so much it is pretty useless for the writing idea!

      Obviously Steven is interested in music or writing, and other suggestions like Fiverr are not on the short list!

      Fair enough, so l will just say good luck!

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