Tell Me Why the NFL

by BigFrank Banned

Posted: 12 years ago 23 replies

OFF TOPIC

Rakes in $9B a year, pays their honcho $44.2M and enjoys tax-free status as a non-profit corporation? What's up with that???

Cheers. - Frank

ForumGuru

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Rakes in $9B a year, pays their honcho $44.2M and enjoys tax-free status as a non-profit corporation? What's up with that???

Cheers. - Frank

Technically the NFL is a trade association which promotes the interests of it's 32 teams. Under this arrangement, the individual teams pay the taxes, not the league office.

It's been that way for decades.

“Claims that the NFL is using a tax exemption to avoid paying the tax due on these revenues are simply misinformed,” Spector said. “The confusion arises from the fact that there is one small part of the NFL unrelated to all this business activity, that is tax-exempt: The N.F.L. league office.”

Specter is right. The money passes through the league office to its teams, and the teams pay the taxes.

NFL explains that it does indeed pay taxes | ProFootballTalk

The NFL league office is a 501(c)(6)...29 different varieties of (c)(6)'s exist. Coburn and others are trying to take the exemption away from the league...

Senators Angus King, and Senator Tom Coburn, a Republican are cosponsoring a bill that would strip the National Football League of its tax exempt status. I suppose my delight that a Republican and an Independent would sit down and talk to one another about tax policy should be so overwhelming that I should ignore the fact that, as far as I can discern, the bill they are proposing is pointless and may not bring in any money at all, almost certainly none from the National Football League.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjre...n-seems-silly/

The NFL is not the only sports entity with tax exempt status...

Plus, if Congress were to revoke the NFL’s nonprofit, tax-exempt status, it might have to so the same for the National Hockey League and the Professional Golfers Association, men’s and women’s. Major League Baseball and the National Basketball Association gave up their status in part because it wasn’t saving them much money, if any at all, and it meant revealing potentially embarrassing executive salary information.

Why Congress will never take back the NFL’s tax break - The Washington Post

Not only do they have tax exempt status, the NFL also has an anti-trust exemption. Some early history on this can be seen here...

Boggs’s son, Thomas, was then a 26-year-old tax lawyer. (“Rozelle tried to hire me,” he said, to help get the legislation passed.) On Monday he described the quid pro quo. Boggs said that during a break in the committee’s hearing, “my old man was out in the hall with Rozelle, and Rozelle asked, ‘Have you done anything with our amendment?’ and my father said, ‘Have you done anything with my team?’ ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/sp...omir.html?_r=0

Another article on the early history is here...

The NFL was a fledgling sports league back in 1942. Despite being in the midst of playing their 23rd regular season, the NFL still was struggling financially. They needed to find ways to save money and to protect their employees, the players. So, the NFL League Offices filed an application for tax-exempt, non-profit status with the IRS. The application was accepted. According to a 2009 article, both the NFL and IRS have said that they can not find a copy of the original 1942 application.

The league continued along until 1966 when they faced stiff competition from the AFL. The AFL had begun play in 1960 and immediately started challenging the NFL for television contracts, college players, and popularity.

On June 8, 1966 the NFL and AFL announced a merger, but in order to avoid antitrust law sanctions, the merger had to be approved by the United States Congress. And that meant convincing the powerful Louisiana Senator and Chairman of the Finance Committee Russell Long. According to the Senate’s own website, Chairman Long tacked the merger onto a tax bill, ensuring it would arrive at his desk. He could then alter the language, ensuring exemption from sanctions. In exchange, Long told NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle that he wanted the next NFL expansion franchise to be in New Orleans, in Long’s home state of Louisiana. The merger passed and on November 1, 1966, the New Orleans Saints became the sixteenth NFL franchise. Good old fashion backroom politics.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....fl-tax-exempt/

The Supreme Court has ruled they consider the NFL 32 separate teams on a "sorta unrelated" matter...it's possible the NFL was trying to have it both ways.

WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court rejected the National Football League's request for broad antitrust law protection Monday, saying that it must be considered 32 separate teams -- not one big business -- when selling branded items like jerseys and caps.

"Although NFL teams have common interests such as promoting the NFL brand, they are still separate, profit-maximizing entities, and their interests in licensing team trademarks are not necessarily aligned," said the retiring Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for a unanimous court.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5214509

Cheers

-don

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1 reply

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BigFrank

Banned 12 years ago

A scam by any other name is still a scam.

Cheers. - Frank

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1 reply

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MikeAmbrosio

12 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

A scam by any other name is still a scam.

Cheers. - Frank

So you're saying that the NFL doesn't pay taxes? Explain why you say scam?

I'm asking simply because I have no idea whether to think it is or not. Don shows links that make a good case...

Mike

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BigFrank

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

So you're saying that the NFL doesn't pay taxes? Explain why you say scam?

I'm saying that to my way of thinking, it's a scam.

I'm asking simply because I have no idea whether to think it is or not.

I'm not trying to convince you to share my views. That seems to be everyone's goal around here. I'm entitled to my way of thinking about it without any regard for what anyone else thinks. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Everything need not be a war. :-)

Don shows links that make a good case... Mike

Well, then you have your answer as to what to think. See how easy that was and I didn't have to lift a finger.

Me? I'm sticking with scam. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

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1 reply

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MikeAmbrosio

12 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I'm saying that to my way of thinking, it's a scam.
I'm not trying to convince you to share my views. That seems to be everyone's goal around here. I'm entitled to my way of thinking about it without any regard for what anyone else thinks. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Everything need not be a war. :-)
Well, then you have your answer as to what to think. See how easy that was and I didn't have to lift a finger.

Me? I'm sticking with scam. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

A bit defensive there... :O

I wasn't asking you to convince me to your way of thinking. In order to decide on something (which I was trying to do) it helps to have different viewpoints (which is what I was asking).

If you didn't HAVE a basis for your viewpoint, you could have just said that...

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BigFrank

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

A bit defensive there... :O

Not really. Just tired of the endless confrontation, here.

I wasn't asking you to convince me to your way of thinking. In order to decide on something (which I was trying to do) it helps to have different viewpoints (which is what I was asking).

I understand, but it felt as if I was being asked to counter Don's input. I don't have the energy that he seems to possess. I have no argument with anything that he posted, it just doesn't alter my view.

If you didn't HAVE a basis for your viewpoint, you could have just said that...

I'm a very simple man, Mike. Sometimes I don't require anything beyond the sniff test to know that something stinks. I form many of my opinions on that basis, alone. Some call it a gut feeling. It has gotten me this far in life so I tend to trust it. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

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MikeAmbrosio

12 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Not really. Just tired of the endless confrontation, here.

Me too - which is why you have not seen much of me in those types of threads these days. I am much happier for it too.

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I understand, and I sort of anticipated you would and that was why I stipulated that I didn't know and was trying to get data to form my own opinion based on two different viewpoints.

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Fair enough. But not all think like you and if you want to throw out your sniff test opinions - which you are indeed entitled, in this environment (a discussion board) you should by now expect questions, and even some confrontation.

In any event, I respect your sniff test and even understand it. I get the same way on certain subjects as well

Mike

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BigFrank

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Me too - which is why you have not seen much of me in those types of threads these days. I am much happier for it too.

Taking a breather on occasion is always good.

I understand, and I sort of anticipated you would and that was why I stipulated that I didn't know and was trying to get data to form my own opinion based on two different viewpoints.

Well, data usually entails relevant facts, which are rarely in abundance in any of my posts.

Fair enough. But not all think like you

One of life's mysteries and tragedies.

and if you want to throw out your sniff test opinions - which you are indeed entitled, in this environment (a discussion board) you should by now expect questions, and even some confrontation.

Of course I know that. For some reason I tend to be really feeling may age, lately. Was fighting a bad back for the past 3 months, which luckily has been a bit better over the past week, and the dog refuses to sleep past 4:30, or rather refuses to let ME sleep past 4:30. I really don't give a crap what time she gets up, if she just wouldn't make me join in.

In any event, I respect your sniff test and even understand it. I get the same way on certain subjects as well

I think we all have a few of those. :-)

Have a good evening.

Cheers. - Frank

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ForumGuru

Banned 12 years ago

@ Mike

Many folks will point to the exemption as a tax break that saves the league tax monies. For instance the NY Times is pointing at dues and assessments paid to the league office.

The teams pay taxes, but the dues they pay to support the N.F.L.’s front office are not taxed. According to the N.F.L.’s 990 filing (required of all nonprofits), the total collected in “dues and assessments” and “coach/club fines” was $326.8 million in 2012.

The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates the 10-year cost of this practice to be approximately $109 million to the taxpayer. Meanwhile, other professional sports operate and thrive without the trade association status: The National Basketball Association never claimed to be a 501(c)(6) and Major League Baseball abandoned the status years ago.

End the N.F.L. Tax Breaks - NYTimes.com

Generally speaking, beyond a loss of tax revenue, one of the big beefs is the NFL is so large some people say they don't "need" the tax exempt status afforded to them. Of course all entities that operate under this exemption get basically the same "breaks".

Cheers

-don

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discrat

12 years ago

Frank,
I do not think Mike was trying to be offensive or questioning you in a smart a$$ way.

That's at least my interpretation

He is not sure what to think and pointed out that Don had some really good points backed up with some good solid information.

Of course there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinions with or without something to back it up.

.But, personally at least for me, I welcome for someone else to ask why I believe in something. I will almost always be glad to expound.

That is the whole fun of debating

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Frank,
I do not think Mike was trying to be offensive or questioning you in a smart a$$ way.

That's at least my interpretation

He is not sure what to think and pointed out that Don had some really good points backed up with some good solid information.

Of course there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinions with or without something to back it up.

.But, personally at least for me, I welcome for someone else to ask why I believe in something. I will almost always be glad to expound.

That is the whole fun of debating

Why do you believe that?

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discrat 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Why do you believe that?

Why do I believe I like to expound on my beliefs ??

It is something that adds to the Community (in some circumstances) and can give insight into things...and if if you did not expound a little bit maybe you wouldn't have certain insights
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- Kurt 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Why do I believe I like to expound on my beliefs ??
  
  Not following you ?
  
  You said you liked to be asked about your beliefs, so I asked you about being asked about your beliefs. (I was just giving you a hard time.)
  
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  discrat 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kurt
  
  You said you liked to be asked about your beliefs, so I asked you about being asked about your beliefs. (I was just giving you a hard time.)
  
  Yes Kurt I caught it but I was too late to edit before you replied
  
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  Kurt 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by discrat
  
  Yes Kurt I caught it but I was too late to edit before you replied
  
  Why did you feel you needed to edit your post?
  
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  discrat 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kurt
  
  Why did you feel you needed to edit your post?
  
  No Kurt, I edited it and I saved it.THEN literally I turned back to go thru Thread and saw your reply.
  
  Iam sure it has happened to you. You look back at your reply to someone's post and 'lightbulb' goes off and you edit it THEN you go back and see someone already has posted a reply with your Quote after the fact
  
  I might be a little cocky but not so sensitive and full of myself to say "Hey I see Kurt's reply and what he meant so I better go back and edit my initial response
  
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BigFrank

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

I've had a rough day that started at 4:30. Sorry if I seemed less than civil. For once, that was NOT my intent. lol

I agree with all you have said and I wasn't looking to dump on anyone. It''s very hard to elucidate when you are going on nothing more than perception. My perception is that it's a racket. If the rest of the world disagreed with me, that wouldn't change my way of thinking and that's not due to just being obstinate. Feelings are feelings. How can you quantify them? As old as I am I have not found the answer to that question.

Cheers. - Frank

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joseph7384

12 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Frank,
I do not think Mike was trying to be offensive or questioning you in a smart a$$ way.

I believe it's a result of the back and forth mud slinging from another thread and Frank feels that it was senseless and pointless arguing, Mike just happened to be the first victim of the byproduct that the mud sling thread has created.

Ha ha ha ha Frankenstein has been born.

Lol just kidding Frank! I like your way of thinking, (it's my view and that's all that matters)

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BigFrank Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by joseph7384

Lol just kidding Frank! I like your way of thinking, (it's my view and that's all that matters)

I mean what else have we got? I have never been one to let facts get in the way of my conclusions.

Even when I try to mellow-out I still seem to be an agitator. It must be in my DNA. :-(

Cheers. - Frank
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Kay King

12 years ago

It's been that way for decades.

Maybe it's time we started questioning things that have "always been that way". This is as good a place to start doing that as any.

Why Congress will never take back the NFL’s tax break - The Washington Post

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ForumGuru

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Hi Kay,

That link and a quote from that link is in my initial reply on this topic.

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post9524307

Cheers

-don

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BigFrank

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Maybe it's time we started questioning things that have "always been that way". This is as good a place to start doing that as any.

Why Congress will never take back the NFL's tax break - The Washington Post

Hi Kay,

So, all I want to know is, does that info do anything to bolster my way of thinking that it's a scam? lol

Cheers. - Frank

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TLTheLiberator 12 years ago

I heard that...

Commissioner Roger Godell is the public originator of the expression...

"Protect The Shield"...

... which I suspect the owners have been using for decades.

The other day someone said the comish is hiding behind the shield.
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