Let the rioting begin!

11 years ago

I wonder what the final goal is. Why have people been trying have "socialist" "systems" for about 80 years or so?

I feel like screaming from the mountain tops that those leading this charge do NOT want what they claim to want. There are only FOUR ways it can end in:

1. A country that is closed, and not that great, like China, cuba, Venezuela, Russia, etc... Admittedly, some things don't make sense, but I know a lot is in line with what Americans have heard. katarina witt wrote an expos'e about how east Germany was. SHE was afforded special privileges but still HEAVILY watched! The rink where she practiced was even BUGGED!
2. A country falling into some disaster, like IRAQ.
3. A country that ends up on the barter system, like jails, etc...
4. A country that reverts back to a pure capitalist type country.

I mean SERIOUSLY, how could it be any different? You need to get stuff SOME way! Do you think you are going to meet new altruistic people every day that don't know you and have enough? If not, they will want a TRADE!

Steve

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socialentry

11 years ago

China wins by decision in the 12th round.

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Kay King 11 years ago

Derek -

I was watching some coverage of this on BBC - and I'm surprised at the strength of the protest.

If it continues to be out of hand - wouldn't China just come in and crush it? Or would that not happen there?
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derekwong28

11 years ago

I don't think many expected this to get so bad. As of today, the protestors are still occupying the sites which are the main business areas in Hong Kong. Things could get much worse on China's national day on Wednesday. A number of trade unions have called for strikes and the main teacher's union have called for a boycott of classes. The students themselves threatened to boycott classes indefinitely.

Kay, China does have troops here but it would be highly undesirable if they intervene. For a start, it could provoke a severe international reaction and China now has got much more to lose than Tiananmen in 1989. Furthermore, it could provoke an exodus of skilled professionals from Hong Kong, many of whom have foreign passports.

Steve, if there were true elections, it is likely that a more liberal leaning government would be elected. One reason why the protests were so big is that there is a lot of discontent in Hong Hong at the moment. There is a widespread feeling that there is collusion between the business tycoons and the government which resulted in sky high property prices and rents, and so a number of monopolies here.

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Richard Van

11 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Steve, if there were true elections, it is likely that a more liberal leaning government would be elected. One reason why the protests were so big is that there is a lot of discontent in Hong Hong at the moment. There is a widespread feeling that there is collusion between the business tycoons and the government which resulted in sky high property prices and rents, and so a number of monopolies here.

I read, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I read you can have democratic elections there but only if China pick the candidates. On a plus note, I also read that protests are illegal in China but not in Hong Kong due to the take over deal from years ago.

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Kay King 11 years ago

China is trying to "manage" the agreement made in the late 90's - is that correct?

It's a rough problem for China. Try to put down the protest and cause an international incident - allow the protests to succeed and risk them spreading to China in the future.

I'm surprised by how quickly the protest has grown. Seems to be more people every day and they are so well behaved!
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derekwong28

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I read, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I read you can have democratic elections there but only if China pick the candidates. On a plus note, I also read that protests are illegal in China but not in Hong Kong due to the take over deal from years ago.

Richard, the current protests are illegal but obviously they are dealt with as harshly as they would be in China. China wants a 800 member committee to approve up to three candidates for election for the chief executive. The previous committees were packed with China loyalists.

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Steve, if there were true elections, it is likely that a more liberal leaning government would be elected. One reason why the protests were so big is that there is a lot of discontent in Hong Hong at the moment. There is a widespread feeling that there is collusion between the business tycoons and the government which resulted in sky high property prices and rents, and so a number of monopolies here.

The irony of this is interesting.

Good luck to you Derek.

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Kay King 11 years ago

Protestors have set a deadline of tomorrow and threaten to start occupying buildings if the Chinese leaders don't meet the demands.

What I found interesting is this:

May of the signs displayed by protestors on walls and and large hand carried signs....ARE IN ENGLISH. Trying to get the message out to the world?
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ForumGuru

Banned 11 years ago

Par for the course --> China blocked Instagram over this matter.

How one night of tear gas in Hong Kong just shut down Instagram in China - The Washington Post

Cheers

-don

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johnben1444

11 years ago

I heard on CNN today that America is the brain behind the protest in Hong Kong.

Why are people always accusing America of causing problems in their own country?
It baffles me how myopic a lot of people are and how they like to quickly bail out themselves from issues that originated from them or is U.S still the one managing these countries? Let's call a spade a spade.

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TLTheLiberator

11 years ago

I hear the students are still doing their homework.

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HeySal

11 years ago

Just one of many areas of unrest all over the world. Governments should be scared. 7 bil people. And the message going out everywhere (other than via terrorist groups) is that humans are sick of being owned.

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Kay King

11 years ago

I continue to be impressed at the behavior of such humongous crowds of students in Hong Kong. They aren't vandalizing or looting or fighting that I've seen - that wouldn't happen here with a group that size.

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I continue to be impressed at the behavior of such humongous crowds of students in Hong Kong. They aren't vandalizing or looting or fighting that I've seen - that wouldn't happen here with a group that size.

The one that impressed me was Egypt. I've long wondered what our leaders would do if several million of us gathered and just stood looking at the white house and stared at them in silence when they drove by in their limos with the blackened windows and their security brigades. Just stand and silently stare. I think it would give them more of the creeps and possibly even start to elicit more guilt feelings than a full blown riot would. How do you react to people who aren't screaming, or even talking, or attacking anything? Pure accusation in it's rawest form. Nothing to justify striking at, yet discomforting as hell. Kinda like Hitchcock, when the people see all the birds congregating but they are not attacking yet - they're just there. You get the feeling of impending doom, but can't really react to what's not happening.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

The one that impressed me was Egypt. I've long wondered what our leaders would do if several million of us gathered and just stood looking at the white house and stared at them in silence when they drove by in their limos with the blackened windows and their security brigades. Just stand and silently stare. I think it would give them more of the creeps and possibly even start to elicit more guilt feelings than a full blown riot would. How do you react to people who aren't screaming, or even talking, or attacking anything? Pure accusation in it's rawest form. Nothing to justify striking at, yet discomforting as hell. Kinda like Hitchcock, when the people see all the birds congregating but they are not attacking yet - they're just there. You get the feeling of impending doom, but can't really react to what's not happening.

They would do the SAME thing they did around the whitehouse, airforce one, planned parent hood, etc.... They would make the distance even GREATER! The whitehouse is on a road barely traveled and now has this baracade to stop cars, a fence to stop people, AND a guard post. You can't go on a tour unless it is by appointment in a group! It is VERY different from how it used to be.

Steve

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I continue to be impressed at the behavior of such humongous crowds of students in Hong Kong. They aren't vandalizing or looting or fighting that I've seen - that wouldn't happen here with a group that size.

With MOST groups, in the US, it HAS and WOULD! I can think of only TWO exceptions!(They come in MANY forms though) Of course, they are ALSO the most likely to gather in such large groups.

Steve

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thunderbird

11 years ago

I don't know how this can end nicely. The protesters in Hong Kong must realize that the Chinese government wouldn't accept a protest paradigm that other regions of China could copy.

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Let the rioting begin!

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