59 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
59 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Directory Questions

by Mark Singletary
40 replies
I asked a version of this elsewhere a couple weeks ago but there was no response so I decided to give it one more shot.

I have been looking into creating a national niche directory. For example, a national directory of plumbers or psychologists. The directory would be mostly a lead generator or part of a marketing package versus other reasons people start directories.

What are the pros and cons of having one big national directory (Directory of US Massage Therapists) versus having let's say 150 separate local directories (Directory of Boston Massage Therapists)?

If going the separate route, would you have 150 different domains like BostonMassageTherapists.com, LasVegasMassageTherapists.com or would you do subdomains?


Thanks for any input.
Mark
#directory #questions
  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    I asked a version of this elsewhere a couple weeks ago but there was no response so I decided to give it one more shot.

    I have been looking into creating a national niche directory. For example, a national directory of plumbers or psychologists. The directory would be mostly a lead generator or part of a marketing package versus other reasons people start directories.

    What are the pros and cons of having one big national directory (Directory of US Massage Therapists) versus having let's say 150 separate local directories (Directory of Boston Massage Therapists)?

    If going the separate route, would you have 150 different domains like BostonMassageTherapists.com, LasVegasMassageTherapists.com or would you do subdomains?


    Thanks for any input.
    Mark

    Having them on separate domains is safer in case they get penalized seo wise.

    Have you got a way to by data and automatically populate a site with national data? That can be quite expensive.

    You will need some data on there. And big, national site with only 10 profiles on it won't look good to prospects.

    Since you're going for the upsell, start local in a great sized city. Far less work to create all the categories, locations and places listings, and still gets you in the door.

    What theme are you using.

    Everyone one I've seen building a directory has completely butchered the nice looking theme they bought with absolutely amateur design. Don't do that.

    Even the tops ones, here in the UK, I did analysis of and there is plenty of scope to offer more than them and build an attractive directory that positions you as a proper business and will make upselling so much easier and efficient as simply linking them to a sales page, provided you offer good stuff.



    After observing, time and time again,''opportunity seekers'' take a good idea and going out and embarrassing themselves because they think they can chuck anything up and have people lining up to pay them only to be disappointed,, and to continue in a never ending the same pattern, it's simply and imperative you do things properly.


    Building a directory is no golden ticket in itself. It's just a website to post details on and they could do that on 1500 directories and it would be useless for them.

    What they want is a local audience to get infront of and results. So you need to do things right so you have an audience or can build one. Have a good traffic strategy, seo, rss, social media, email, direct outreach to influencers.

    My first attempt at building one was a just chucking up a directory theme, putting a logo up, getting someone to find and upload 100 dummy accounts. Luckily I'd put that on the backburner for a while and had a chance to realize what is was lacking without having to waste money and getting nowhere to find out.

    Now, a directory is just part of my network of sites. I've got a great site. A good concept for it, a differentiator. I have my keywords mapped out, site siloed and a solid seo strategy, a traffic strategy, some great features and a very clearly defined roadmap for growing the site over the long-term and building a brand. If you got a theme that allows you posters to do discounts like Groupon, you'll easily be able to build an audience or at least have an attractor for consumers.

    You won't need all this to get started. I'm pretty sure that most people will have some kind of success and make a little change when they approach businesses telling them they are starting out. But then later on, when others are invited and that do a quick couple of seconds assessment only to see it is a wasteland and nothing is going on, you'll have no business left.

    This is what most do. They only chase the money and dream of easy returns.

    You absolutely have to build something worthwhile and that competes with the big boys, but which has an advantage - being exclusive to their immediate area, having a local audience that continually visit or interact on social media, good testimonials or case studies of getting leads for others through the site. If you can build something like that, which takes a big effort, planning, knowledge and investment, you can make a killing. Doesn't have to be months either. Just be smart, comprehensive, sensible and business-like about your research and planning.

    Just in the UK, Yell.com, partnered with a video production company and sold over 8000 video packages in 9 months, just be leveraging their brand and their customer base.

    You will not see anyone who's only effort is to buy a theme, put a logo on it, write and email and start emailing people and trying to sell them, reach long-term success.

    If you knew that, and have done the work, I apologize and this is for those considering the model in that case.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9762696].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Liltigerlilie
    Dude, having separate domains will get really expensive if you have let's say 50 sites (1 website for each state) come renewal, it'll be at least $10 x50 = $500. Go with sub folders if you can (eg refinery29.com/London) it's supposed to be better for seo, but many sites use sub domains and it seems to be ok ( eg London.streetstyleedition.com or craigslist.org) I know for a fact that the two fashion sites were built with Wordpress Multisite. A multisite uses the same login vs 50 usernames & therefore 50 different passwords.

    If you want to sell the directory in peices, then I could see justifying using separate domains.

    Advantage of having only 1 national site would be maintaining only 1 website.
    Signature
    My Traffic Bank | 100% Real Visitors From Traffic Exchange On PR3 Site
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9762745].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Liltigerlilie
      And by sub folders, I mean subdirectories =P
      Signature
      My Traffic Bank | 100% Real Visitors From Traffic Exchange On PR3 Site
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9762757].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Liltigerlilie View Post

      Dude, having separate domains will get really expensive if you have let's say 50 sites (1 website for each state) come renewal, it'll be at least $10 x50 = $500. Go with sub folders if you can (eg refinery29.com/London) it's supposed to be better for seo, but many sites use sub domains and it seems to be ok ( eg London.streetstyleedition.com or craigslist.org) I know for a fact that the two fashion sites were built with Wordpress Multisite. A multisite uses the same login vs 50 usernames & therefore 50 different passwords.

      If you want to sell the directory in peices, then I could see justifying using separate domains.

      Advantage of having only 1 national site would be maintaining only 1 website.
      You don't need a separate hosting account for all those domains. For example, hostgator do something like unlimited domains hosted on their packages.

      Buying the domain names, yes, there is a cost. But if your not willing to invest money or take on costs best stick to having a job.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9762759].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Liltigerlilie
        Originally Posted by Underground View Post

        You don't need a separate hosting account for all those domains. For example, hostgator do something like unlimited domains hosted on their packages.

        Buying the domain names, yes, there is a cost. But if your not willing to invest money or take on costs best stick to having a job.
        Yes, I never mentioned hosting, but you will not need multiple hosting accounts.

        I'm just saying from experience that managing 25 sub domain multisite is a huge time commitment in itself. Time is money, right? I couldn't imagine managing 25 separate domains let alone 50 or 150 different ones and promote each one individually, write content, set up different Analytics, therefore webmaster tools, etc. AND STILL have quality sites unless you have a team doing work for you. Just my two cents. Don't know the situation of the OP, but those 1 time set ups adds up when talking 150 sites!

        Think of other lead gen sites like groupon. They use sub domains. As does craigslist, but they do classifieds. Home advisor, thumb tack, they're all ONE brand. Work smart, not harder or keep your day job =]
        Signature
        My Traffic Bank | 100% Real Visitors From Traffic Exchange On PR3 Site
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9763461].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          The idea is to start one or two or five, make them make you money so that you can hire people to do the grunt work while you develop a business and get paid at the same time.

          Yelp is not managed by one person. Yep, they had money to start with some staff from the beginning.

          OP, if you call your site Directory of US Massage Therapists and try to rank that, you'll have a harder time. If you have that site with a subdomain, say, MadisonWI.DirectoryOfUsMassageTherapists.com and try to rank for Madison keywords, you'll get an easier life.

          Madison, WI is probably too small to support you all by itself, so maybe you go for several cities like it, or you go with Denver and Seattle... Harder, but not as hard as New York.

          Subdomains is the way to go... Unless you plan to do funny SEO. Then you need different sites, in case Google tanks one or 10.




          Originally Posted by Liltigerlilie View Post

          Yes, I never mentioned hosting, but you will not need multiple hosting accounts.

          I'm just saying from experience that managing 25 sub domain multisite is a huge time commitment in itself. Time is money, right? I couldn't imagine managing 25 separate domains let alone 50 or 150 different ones and promote each one individually, write content, set up different Analytics, therefore webmaster tools, etc. AND STILL have quality sites unless you have a team doing work for you. Just my two cents. Don't know the situation of the OP, but those 1 time set ups adds up when talking 150 sites!

          Think of other lead gen sites like groupon. They use sub domains. As does craigslist, but they do classifieds. Home advisor, thumb tack, they're all ONE brand. Work smart, not harder or keep your day job =]
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9763572].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Greetings. I have done niche directories and generic directories and each has their unique set of pros and cons.

          Every professional organization that represents lawyers, doctors, appraisers, interior decorators - even horse breeders already has a national directory. You'll be beating your head against a wall, there. The next thing that becomes fairly obvious is, if, by 2015 an niche doesn't have a well positioned directory, there probably isn't a need for one. Just something to consider.

          After a year of running a national generic directory, when I speak to a local, small business owner they're immediate response is, "I'm looking for customers in my backyard. A national directory where I'm thrown in with millions other businesses is of no interest to me."

          After a year of continuously hearing that refrain, I decided to create a matching directory for a local area. I list everyone in both directories for free, unless they choose to upgrade to a more feature rich, plan. Few do. Free suits them, just fine. And that's fine with me, too.

          In reality I only use these directories to lend credibility to my operation and as a way to offer something for free to get my foot in the door. I then offer them a wide range of services, the majority of which I outsource, happily skimming a little something off the top.

          That being said, my situation is different than most as I an fortunate enough to be able to cover the expense of running both directories without being concerned about making money off of them, directly. In the end, the ancillary income they generate covers the nut and provides enough additional income to warrant the amount of time that I am required to invest. And if they didn't I wouldn't care at all. I don't do them for the money. More along the lines of boredom appeasement. I've worked hard all of my life and now I don't have to, but I love to dabble and play. The word 'growth' is meaningless to me and I don't even do any SEO. It's about as organic an existence as any 'business' can have. I know that's an offensive proposition to many of those fired-up, world-beaters out there, but that's my reality.

          If I can offer you one word of warning, it would be this. Regardless of the path you choose, if you believe that you are going to find a WordPress directory theme or plugin that will allow you to create what a full-fledged directory should be, you're dreaming. If you are serious, invest in a top-shelf script or provider so you can concentrate on selling. I have tried them all. They all, to phrase it in techno-jargon, suck!

          Please be aware that this route is not a path to easy money. You are competing against some of the larger players in the industry, even at a local level. That's partially the reason why I decided to do it. I was told it couldn't be done. It has taken me a year to get 800,000 listings in the one directory that are solid. I have lists totaling 23M names, but each one presents its own challenges.

          The plan was to build and sell ready to rock n' roll directory sites based upon the purchaser's desired locale, fully loaded with every business in that area. It became obvious to me, that few people want the best product that money can buy and are willing to pay the price to attain that. Most people want to see how inexpensively they can do something, believing that they will get rich in the process. So - I chucked that idea and decided to just create my own and have fun with it.

          The local directory launches in a couple of weeks with around 2,000 businesses and lots of room to grow. You can't use the directories alone as a money-making project. They need to serve as a platform to market other things. If you don't approach it from that standpoint you will just be another of the dozens and dozens of directories that come and go, every single year.

          I'll be celebrating my one year anniversary in 6 days and am quite happy and proud to have reached that milestone. After a year of trying different scenarios I am doing a complete overhaul and facelift for the new year and hope to expand it's income producing potential. Then I'll sell it off. :-) My problem is that I'm getting old and while I still possess a strong entrepreneurial spirit, part of me just wants to retire and travel. lol

          If you're going to do it, do it correctly, determine if you are seriously committed to the venture and if so, spend the money to produce a product that is worth having and showing. It simply cannot be done 'on the cheap,' but if you want to try it, don't let anything I have stated slow you down. Three of my favorite words are, "You were right." :-) The next three? "I told you!" lol

          Just my 2¢.

          Cheers. - Frank
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9763641].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author zoro
            [DELETED]
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764775].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Underground
          Originally Posted by Liltigerlilie View Post

          Yes, I never mentioned hosting, but you will not need multiple hosting accounts.

          I'm just saying from experience that managing 25 sub domain multisite is a huge time commitment in itself. Time is money, right? I couldn't imagine managing 25 separate domains let alone 50 or 150 different ones and promote each one individually, write content, set up different Analytics, therefore webmaster tools, etc. AND STILL have quality sites unless you have a team doing work for you. Just my two cents. Don't know the situation of the OP, but those 1 time set ups adds up when talking 150 sites!

          Think of other lead gen sites like groupon. They use sub domains. As does craigslist, but they do classifieds. Home advisor, thumb tack, they're all ONE brand. Work smart, not harder or keep your day job =]
          There is one of the silliest posts I've read in a long while. There is absolute no real difference managing and setting up sites on sub-domains than there is managing the sites on their own domain.

          He can have them all on one domain, as sub-domains, if he wants. If SEO is a big factor, then spreading them out, so they aren't all sitting on the same domain and so all get penalized for something due to the indiscretion of one site falling foul of Google, is a better bet.

          It's simply not having all eggs in one basket, if SEO is going to play a big part in generating revenue.

          If it is, taking the extra 2 minutes it takes to buy and register separate domain names for each site, is worth it.

          How smart would it be if your main revenue source came from your ranking for these sites, and you did one thing wrong on one site, and then rest of the 149 sites got penalized too, just because of that and all suffered a dramatic decrease in revenue?

          You're mindset is why most people here do not, and will not succeed.

          - Scared to spend and invest the considerable time and money required in their business to make it viable and a long-term, sustainable concern.

          - Don't apply critical thinking skills and give serious thought to what they do. Rather sloppy, corner-cutting, myopic, magical thinking is used instead.

          - Are to cheap and scared to make the little bit of extra short-term, intense effort and sacrifice for the long-time reward.

          Yet think they are 'working smarter'.

          That's the truth. It's an epidemic I see everyday.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764101].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Great post Frank and advice. I wasted quite a bit on wordpress themes and knew I needed a something more fluid like a php script.

    I bought this, Javo Directory Wordpress Theme Preview - ThemeForest
    , which I'm willing to give to the OP if wanted. Looks great but wasn't right for me.

    I paid 300 to a firm for a ready made solution but it was very poor. Luckily got a refund.


    I did find a fluid solution that functions like a php script, looks great, has all the functions of the big guys, but which is actually a wordpress solution from a firm who's themes run just like php, and am very pleased to how found it, as it will allow me to accomplish what I had planned.

    Definitely can't expect to make a living selling listings or premium listings, unless you have the site ranked number 1 for relevant keywords to their business and can show traffic, or have a good traffic and promotional syndication package in place.

    A WSO peddler named Luther released a course recently about selling places for 500 a time and how some guy was making $15,000 a month, but I do not believe that for a second.

    It's that dream though, that makes many want to set one up, not the reality as you have outlined.

    I have a list of over 100,000 businesses I'll be emailing in the new year to build my network, which a directory is a part of. Did you do something like mass email to build you directory and build the list?

    Really, for me the directory is giving away something free to get sign-ups, like a lead mag, then upsell and creating an asset to market my other services to, like you're doing. Also, as a kind of place to offer discounts from businesses in the city and build my customer base on social media sharing great deals. Saturated market, but in a big city, you will stay find interested people and be able to build a community around the site.

    Amazing to hear that you has wild success doing that as you obviously had the right mindset, attitude and experience to do it right and not chase the money and burn out fast like most do.

    Do you mind sharing how you managed to grow it so big in just one year?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9763688].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Do you mind sharing how you managed to grow it so big in just one year?
      Heading out the door to have lunch with friends, but will post when I return this afternoon. :-)

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9763709].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Underground View Post

      Great post Frank and advice.
      I hope it helped the OP and possibly others. This topic comes and goes on WF and I have generally stayed away from commenting because I am a very opinionated SOB and can't believe a lot of the things I have read. lol
      I wasted quite a bit on wordpress themes and knew I needed a something more fluid like a php script.
      I was at the point of having a theme or a plugin built to my requirements, but I was quoted a price of $5K. Seeing as how many of the peeps on here have set their top price for a theme at $17, if they can't find one for $7, I couldn't justify the expense and the aggravation that would accompany having it built from scratch.
      I bought this, Javo Directory Wordpress Theme Preview - ThemeForest
      , which I'm willing to give to the OP if wanted. Looks great but wasn't right for me.
      Well, looking good is part of it, but functionality is the key. I will check that out for future reference, but when a developer's 'Buy Now' button says, 'But Now,' I think I'll pass on that. lol
      I paid 300 to a firm for a ready made solution but it was very poor. Luckily got a refund.
      I originally paid $3000 a year for the first one, but the second one only cost me $1000. Yeah, I can hear heads exploding over that one, but you get what you pay for in life. It has everything - coupons, classifieds, real estate listings, beautifully responsive. This is not a toy. It's a platform you could build a career on. Anyone that knows me will tell you that if I can't do something in the best manner possible, I just won't do it. Any shortcomings in my efforts are going to be personally related to me and not my tools. That way, I can only point the finger of shame in one direction - at myself.

      Additionally, since I'm technically challenged, I want a dedicated support team and a team of developers handling the aesthetic aspects of constant upgrades in features and appearance. I sell and that's all I do. It makes no sense for me to attempt to wear the hat of someone or something I am not. I'd rather pay the big bucks for the support I require than pound my head against the wall in eternal frustration over a plugin conflict. No thanks.
      I did find a fluid solution that functions like a php script, looks great, has all the functions of the big guys, but which is actually a wordpress solution from a firm who's themes run just like php, and am very pleased to how found it, as it will allow me to accomplish what I had planned.
      I wish you the best with that and I look forward to seeing what you are able to produce with it.
      Definitely can't expect to make a living selling listings or premium listings, unless you have the site ranked number 1 for relevant keywords to their business and can show traffic, or have a good traffic and promotional syndication package in place.
      Not on a national site, but on a local site, if you're willing to invest a year or more, you actually could. I have a beautiful, persuasive and profitable strategy. I'm just too damned lazy to fully implement it. I plan to spend the next year getting it fleshed out and then sell it. I enjoy the challenge and the way I go about structuring things. There is a method to my madness, but it's one that suits my own particular brand of insanity. I break 99% of the 'rules' that people espouse, here. I can only work the way I work. Since my goals are modest in nature, I'm content. Like I said, it ain't about the money.
      A WSO peddler named Luther released a course recently about selling places for 500 a time and how some guy was making $15,000 a month, but I do not believe that for a second.
      Good. Unfortunately, many who read that crap, do believe it. You can do $1500 a month, easy-peasy and more, if like I said, if you are willing to focus, drill down and stop being distracted by the latest shiny object that comes down the pike.
      It's that dream though, that makes many want to set one up, not the reality as you have outlined.
      Nothing wrong with dreaming, per se, as long as you don't object to a rude awakening. Civilization was/is built on dreams, many outlandish, but in todays economic climate, tempering them with a splash of reality can only be a good thing.
      I have a list of over 100,000 businesses I'll be emailing in the new year to build my network, which a directory is a part of. Did you do something like mass email to build you directory and build the list?
      No. I'm morally opposed to sending unsolicited emails. I have a technique that I use which I cannot share at this time where I get others to send my offering in their emails. At some point I can get into that, but not right now.
      Really, for me the directory is giving away something free to get sign-ups, like a lead mag, then upsell and creating an asset to market my other services to, like you're doing. Also, as a kind of place to offer discounts from businesses in the city and build my customer base on social media sharing great deals. Saturated market, but in a big city, you will stay find interested people and be able to build a community around the site.
      Once you get rolling you will be amazed at how many ways there are to market this, how many baubles that you can hang on it and how you can get everyone you come into contact with to do all of the heavy lifting for you. Cross-promotion is invaluable in this type of marketing strategy. I have more ways to sell this that I would ever be able to implement, each feeding off of the last. If only I were a bit more hungry.
      Amazing to hear that you has wild success doing that as you obviously had the right mindset, attitude and experience to do it right and not chase the money and burn out fast like most do.
      Well, one man's wild success is another man's 'just getting by.' I don't measure success in $$$ that's why my presence here is a bit puzzling both to myself and many others. I measure my success, at this point in my life more on the creativity and uniqueness that I can bring to a project. It's not like I have money to piss away, but I don't smoke, drink, do drugs, chase women take vacations or need a fast car. I have a little money to burn in the name of testing sales and marketing techniques. I have blown thousands on projects too numerous to even mention. While some may perceive those as failures, I consider them training exercises. lol That helps assuage the pain and sweetens the bitter taste left in my mouth.
      Do you mind sharing how you managed to grow it so big in just one year?
      In a public forum, yes, but we'll talk. :-) Actually, there are currently 1.3M businesses listed in the directory, but I'm removing 500k for the relaunch as I have greatly improved the category structure of the listings. Also, I have gone through by hand and removed the most arcane categories, to my way of thinking. Quantity is nice, but quality of listing is always much better. That said, you need quantity to be considered relevant. We live in a word where perception is reality. When people would hit me with, "Well you're nothing compared to the YP or Yelp," I would respond, "That may be true, but we are the largest independently owned and operated online directory in the US." That was usually followed by an, "Oh!" That instantly showed our viability, tenacity, and level of pride in what we do and how we do it. lol It gets their attention. If you present yourself as a player - you're a player. Now, if I had 20K listings that would not be a plausible scenario, but 1.3M is a figure that most business owners respond to - even though it's just a number.

      More, as you request it.

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764390].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        In a public forum, yes, but we'll talk. :-)
        That didn't come out quite right. I've been tagged as a 'self-promoter' on more than one occasion and have been banned for it more than once. I was new at the time, but now I'm gun shy. After I get the new iteration launched I'd be happy to share my business model with anyone interested. Sorry if I came across as being selfish. That truly wasn't me intention.

        Cheers. - Frank
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764723].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Underground
          Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

          That didn't come out quite right. I've been tagged as a 'self-promoter' on more than one occasion and have been banned for it more than once. I was new at the time, but now I'm gun shy. After I get the new iteration launched I'd be happy to share my business model with anyone interested. Sorry if I came across as being selfish. That truly wasn't me intention.

          Cheers. - Frank
          As someone reticent myself to reveal anything too specific on a public forum like this one, due to the high-number of people who circle the waters looking to take someone else's hardwork and rip it off, only to then sully the waters with their bad business practices, I completely understood that.

          I have a very similar model, I believe. I'm also working round the clock to get everything set up for the new year. I'm exactly the same as you in that if I can't do something right, or at least I think is right and professional I won't do it. Not at this stage. I mean really do it properly and optimally as best I can. Nothing mediocre or simply what is most convenient for me.

          Your post and info here is the kind I need to go away and think about and apply in my own business, as it's highly pertinent and relevant. I.e, not a topic that;s good for theoretical debate and discussion and firing of a hundred questions from idle curiosity.

          Thanks for what you've shared so far. It's always great to get confirmation you are on the right path and see someone who are doing the same things as you and already has many more miles on the clock in terms of putting them into action, proving it successful and worthwhile.

          I hope you don't mind if I come back at a later point with some more questions.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764768].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Underground View Post

            As someone reticent myself to reveal anything too specific on a public forum like this one, due to the high-number of people who circle the waters looking to take someone else's hardwork and rip it off, only to then sully the waters with their bad business practices, I completely understood that.
            Thanks for understanding. I felt awful. I don't mind sharing most things. Usually when I'm finished explaining my concept and implementation to someone, they usually respond with, "Screw that. That sounds like work!" lol
            I have a very similar model, I believe. I'm also working round the clock to get everything set up for the new year. I'm exactly the same as you in that if I can't do something right, or at least I think is right and professional I won't do it. Not at this stage. I mean really do it properly and optimally as best I can. Nothing mediocre or simply what is most convenient for me.
            While it's important to start out with that stance, what's even more important is to carry it through until you reach your goal. Most peeps start out with a bang, peter out quickly and disappear with nary a whimper. Let's face it - if this crap was easy who wouldn't do it and who wouldn't be rich?
            Your post and info here is the kind I need to go away and think about and apply in my own business, as it's highly pertinent and relevant. I.e, not a topic that;s good for theoretical debate and discussion and firing of a hundred questions from idle curiosity.
            I'm sure that you know the answers to your own questions and have no need to actually pose them. Once you immerse yourself in this type of project it's pretty much common sense and work ethic. This ain't rocket science.
            Thanks for what you've shared so far. It's always great to get confirmation you are on the right path and see someone who are doing the same things as you and already has many more miles on the clock in terms of putting them into action, proving it successful and worthwhile.
            I'm glad I could provide something you found useful. Like I said, I don't post much about my business activities. I'm usually causing trouble down in the swamp. (OT forum). lol
            I hope you don't mind if I come back at a later point with some more questions.
            If you're serious about giving this everything you've got in the way of effort and commitment, I'll share everything I know. I promise you, some of it will just blow you away. Some good stuff, especially when you grasp how it all piggybacks on itself. I amaze myself sometimes. :-)

            Cheers. - Frank

            P.S. No slacking-off over the holidays. I've been putting in 12 hour days, seven days a week for the past 2 months. I'm an old man. You should be able to keep up. lol
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764798].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Underground
              Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

              Thanks for understanding. I felt awful. I don't mind sharing most things. Usually when I'm finished explaining my concept and implementation to someone, they usually respond with, "Screw that. That sounds like work!" lol
              While it's important to start out with that stance, what's even more important is to carry it through until you reach your goal. Most peeps start out with a bang, peter out quickly and disappear with nary a whimper. Let's face it - if this crap was easy who wouldn't do it and who wouldn't be rich?
              I'm sure that you know the answers to your own questions and have no need to actually pose them. Once you immerse yourself in this type of project it's pretty much common sense and work ethic. This ain't rocket science.
              I'm glad I could provide something you found useful. Like I said, I don't post much about my business activities. I'm usually causing trouble down in the swamp. (OT forum). lol
              If you're serious about giving this everything you've got in the way of effort and commitment, I'll share everything I know. I promise you, some of it will just blow you away. Some good stuff, especially when you grasp how it all piggybacks on itself. I amaze myself sometimes. :-)

              Cheers. - Frank

              P.S. No slacking-off over the holidays. I've been putting in 12 hour days, seven days a week for the past 2 months. I'm an old man. You should be able to keep up. lol
              I've recently been working on trying to get my stamina up to wear I can work consistent 12 hours days without burnout after a couple of weeks.

              I appreciate your generosity. I've been there where I've tried to help others only to left amazed at how little the average person is willing to give to learn, sacrifice, invest and commit. They expect everything to be handed on a plate and to spontaneous manifest into existent fully formed. Like success happens at the click of a finger.

              I knew what it would take years ago and set out my goals and objectives then. I committed to it till however long it takes to create my business just how I want it. I started out backwards, getting everything set and going out and taking action, and although initially successful, realized I really didn't know what I was doing. And wasn't about to accept that.

              I didn't realize though their was so much to learn and study to get there. Or how much money was needed to invest. I've taken far longer than I should, but I feel I'd paid my dues. I've just spent over £2000 building a social network, video site, directory, property site, events site, recruitment site, q and a site, blog and my marketing site, all under one brand identity and concept, down to my last few hundred in capital, and still a bit to do before launch so no rest over the holiday period, but full around the clock for me too, but I've got all my revenue models in place, my sites looking highly professional, my strategies in place, and I don't feel their is too much lacking in my overall knowledge now.

              I've set myself with about 20 revenue streams and ways to profit, instead of one, so I could achieve that state of detachment to the money and just organically build my brand and sites in the way you've mentioned. Where there's more to it than money.

              The only knowledge I lack is the kind that comes from direct feedback, the stuff you can't see until you've set sail and things come up. And I appreciate your offer of being open with your knowledge provided I was serious. Thank you.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764858].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Thanks for all the input so far.

    This is a new business stream to me so I need to make sure that I've got all my ducks in a row before I take away from things that are currently profitable in the hope of potential profits.

    For that reason, I'd want to start with as little investment as possible and build as I go.

    So let's say I sell insurance or accounting or whatever to building professionals. My idea is to start a directory (a current national reference directory is BuildingPros.com). Their listings are free for 6 months and then $30 a month thereafter.

    My directory would be a lead generator for my insurance policies or accounting packages. So I would maybe offer basic listings for free and more advanced for a fee.

    Maybe I'd only have one featured contractor per 50,000 population which would be an additional premium fee.

    I may or may not include the ability for customers to provide reviews.

    To get traffic, I would go beyond a traditional directory and have consumer type articles about how to chose a building pro, Build your pool DIY, 7 ways to stay cool in the summer, etc. These would be used to drive consumer traffic and interest in the directory. The more traffic, the more Joe Carpenter is happy. If Joe is happy then he might be in the mood to get my insurance proposal email.

    Besides the directory articles, a premium service may be to allow the building pros themselves to write articles versus just having a profile as in a standard directory. This would help build up their expertise in the consumer's minds.

    Perhaps to further monetize it, I may have a private area for discussion, customer service training, webinars from other building experts, etc. to help the building pros to build a better business and make more money.

    Once they buy my insurance or accounting (or have turned it down but are still interested in a continuing relationship with me and my directory) I may give them an opportunity to buy hammers, computers, an answering service, or any number of other products and services they use every day.

    There are a lot more little ideas such as these I've written down, but I think this will explain enough of what I am thinking about.

    I know it's a lot of hard work. I know a lot of people have tried and failed. And I know that there are already well established directories, such as Building Pros, to compete with which is a big reason for thinking this through very carefully and having plenty of differentiators as possible.

    Keep the input coming!
    Thanks.
    Mark
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764815].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Thanks for all the input so far.

      This is a new business stream to me so I need to make sure that I've got all my ducks in a row before I take away from things that are currently profitable in the hope of potential profits.

      For that reason, I'd want to start with as little investment as possible and build as I go.

      So let's say I sell insurance or accounting or whatever to building professionals. My idea is to start a directory (a current national reference directory is BuildingPros.com). Their listings are free for 6 months and then $30 a month thereafter.

      My directory would be a lead generator for my insurance policies or accounting packages. So I would maybe offer basic listings for free and more advanced for a fee.

      Maybe I'd only have one featured contractor per 50,000 population which would be an additional premium fee.

      I may or may not include the ability for customers to provide reviews.

      To get traffic, I would go beyond a traditional directory and have consumer type articles about how to chose a building pro, Build your pool DIY, 7 ways to stay cool in the summer, etc. These would be used to drive consumer traffic and interest in the directory. The more traffic, the more Joe Carpenter is happy. If Joe is happy then he might be in the mood to get my insurance proposal email.

      Besides the directory articles, a premium service may be to allow the building pros themselves to write articles versus just having a profile as in a standard directory. This would help build up their expertise in the consumer's minds.

      Perhaps to further monetize it, I may have a private area for discussion, customer service training, webinars from other building experts, etc. to help the building pros to build a better business and make more money.

      Once they buy my insurance or accounting (or have turned it down but are still interested in a continuing relationship with me and my directory) I may give them an opportunity to buy hammers, computers, an answering service, or any number of other products and services they use every day.

      There are a lot more little ideas such as these I've written down, but I think this will explain enough of what I am thinking about.

      I know it's a lot of hard work. I know a lot of people have tried and failed. And I know that there are already well established directories, such as Building Pros, to compete with which is a big reason for thinking this through very carefully and having plenty of differentiators as possible.

      Keep the input coming!
      Thanks.
      Mark

      Wow. Rarely have I seen someone on here so clued up when starting their venture. You already have the right mindset and attitude to build something worthwhile, like Frank talked about, for sure, and you're thinking is clear and realistic. Most times advice like Frank's falls on death ears, but clearly you're smart enough to take on board stuff most people would rather ignore.


      I'll be doing actually the same thing with creating consistent content. I've be doing interviews and features with businesses to create new content based on a keyword research, as well as encouraging discount and good deals, and the blasting these through rss, social media, seo optimisation.

      There is a nice little system for doing this from the guys at themezoom, which goes by a lot of names such the perpetual, socially automated, one way web ring traffic system or something equally far out sounding, that gets lots of traffic, links, and social signals and it's mostly automated apart from the one aspect that uses certain high pr domain sites to stack pr and links on top of them content.

      I'm pretty sure, that provided you have got some good stats to show in terms of the traffic, social signals and ranking you've been able to get with content you've put through this system, that many businesses owners wouldn't bat an eyelid if you offered them the promoted version.

      You can even do this with their listing, promote that across all your social channels, rss feeds, yahoo pipe mashups and social sites as service to get them out there.

      I followed the guys at themezoom for long while and new they had something special most aren't doing. I spent $400 and many sleepless nights going through hours of webinars to learn the system, so I could offer it, and it is money well spent.


      So easy to implement once set up, gets traffic, social shares and even page 1 rankings, and it will bring traffic to your site as well as give a great little 99 or 149 upsell, that many businesses owners wouldn't hesitate in opting for if you can show great results. These guys know how to use social media and syndication to their advantage.

      For me, that price is still at a 'trip-wire' range, and will be easier to sell then premium listings. I'll teach you that at a later point and let you know the success I have with it if you want. It will give a power boost to your already sound idea about creating good content, and will help you maximise the results you get from it while giving you a new revenue stream.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764871].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Thanks for all the input so far.

      This is a new business stream to me so I need to make sure that I've got all my ducks in a row before I take away from things that are currently profitable in the hope of potential profits.

      For that reason, I'd want to start with as little investment as possible and build as I go.

      So let's say I sell insurance or accounting or whatever to building professionals. My idea is to start a directory (a current national reference directory is BuildingPros.com). Their listings are free for 6 months and then $30 a month thereafter.

      My directory would be a lead generator for my insurance policies or accounting packages. So I would maybe offer basic listings for free and more advanced for a fee.

      Maybe I'd only have one featured contractor per 50,000 population which would be an additional premium fee.

      I may or may not include the ability for customers to provide reviews.

      To get traffic, I would go beyond a traditional directory and have consumer type articles about how to chose a building pro, Build your pool DIY, 7 ways to stay cool in the summer, etc. These would be used to drive consumer traffic and interest in the directory. The more traffic, the more Joe Carpenter is happy. If Joe is happy then he might be in the mood to get my insurance proposal email.

      Besides the directory articles, a premium service may be to allow the building pros themselves to write articles versus just having a profile as in a standard directory. This would help build up their expertise in the consumer's minds.
      Hi Mark. Look, I am not one to ever gleefully rain on anyone's parade, but it is of great importance that you realize early on that no one is going to share your enthusiasm for what you are trying to create. As soon as you enter the realm of trying to get other folks to write articles and provide consumer tips, etc., you are going to be shocked at how little interest you will actually get. They will all tell you, "That sounds great," until they actually have to produce and then you get nothing but a lot of excuses.
      Perhaps to further monetize it, I may have a private area for discussion, customer service training, webinars from other building experts, etc. to help the building pros to build a better business and make more money.
      I know that sounds like a no-brainer, but I doubt that it will fly. If they can't see an immediate and I mean immediate remuneration for their time and trouble, they will not do it. It's just the way it is.
      Once they buy my insurance or accounting (or have turned it down but are still interested in a continuing relationship with me and my directory) I may give them an opportunity to buy hammers, computers, an answering service, or any number of other products and services they use every day.
      They have those things, already, procured in all kinds of ways. There's just no allure, there
      There are a lot more little ideas such as these I've written down, but I think this will explain enough of what I am thinking about.
      I see it clearly, but I don't think it's a viable business model that will lead you to any great success.
      I know it's a lot of hard work. I know a lot of people have tried and failed. And I know that there are already well established directories, such as Building Pros, to compete with which is a big reason for thinking this through very carefully and having plenty of differentiators as possible.
      If those differentiators were viable, the people before you would have already integrated them into what they do. It's easy to be different, but being different is not enough by itself to create a compelling product.

      You have to truly understand that you are the only person that is going to be willing to do the things necessary to make your idea a success. Depending on anyone else to create or contribute anything of import will be nothing more than the sweet kiss of death. You're very much like me - an idealist. You can see the great benefit in what you are trying to create and assume that it's only natural that people will not only want to be a part of it, but do enough to actually lay claim for helping you reach the pinnacle of success you are aiming for. Sorry, bud! Guys like us? We get crushed in the real world.

      I feel so awful writing these words, but you wrote something back a bit that I want you to say out loud to yourself 100 times before you go to bed, tonight, and here they are: "before I take away from things that are currently profitable in the hope of potential profits."

      So, we're going to contemplate investing in fantasy rather than take that same amount of time and increasing our profitable reality. I understand that you may have the itch to strike out and try something new, but have you looked out your window, lately. Dude, it's brutal out there.

      Here's the other problem: I'd want to start with as little investment as possible and build as I go. Really?

      You can't start a directory with that mindset. To create anything viable that is going to be taken seriously from the time you approach your first potential lister or advertiser simply cannot be done without more of an outlay of time and money, not to mention blood, sweat and tears than I think you are fully aware of. You have to create a product that has strong credibility from the day you officially launch. If that means having 50K free members, well, that's what you need to do. The very first question that I am asked is, "How many businesses are in your directory?" the answer needs to be a number that makes an impression. I started with 10K businesses. They laughed at me. I got to 25K. They snickered, Then 50K. No one laughed but that number didn't bring a smile to anyone's face. At 100K I would get blank stares, At 250K one eyebrow would raise, slightly. Do you see where I'm going with this. Finally I said "Screw it" and bit the bullet to obtain 1.3M business listings. No one is laughing now, but I'm still not showing a profit. I will, early in the coming year, but man - I have busted my ass. lol

      Now, if you're anything like me I hope that you are saying to yourself, "Screw this yokel." I can do this regardless of what he has personally encountered and experienced. That has nothing to do with me. He doesn't fully grasp my concept or know my drive and unflinching determination. I can make this work." And to that I would say, GREAT!!! Go for it. All I know is that I would not be doing the kind and proper thing if I didn't just at least illuminate the pitfalls and make a mild attempt at dissuading you. Not from doing a directory, mind you - but from doing this directory at this moment. That's all.

      You need to take a breath and start over. There's no rush. You have an income, and you're probably much younger than myself. Place yourself in the shoes of the people that you are going to be approaching and ask yourself the questions that they are going to be asking you. The questions are not hard to figure out. It's having the right answers that will determine if you have a clear understanding of the commercial viability of the initial concept that you have in your mind. You may need to tinker. You may find that you can jump right in, but I think you need to view it from the opposite end of the equation. Of course I realize that you understand your niche more than I do, but you might be too close to gain proper perspective.

      OK. I'm finished. I hope you don't take offense. This is why I never post on this type of thread. I come across appearing negative and I'm truly not being negative it all. I'm only trying to get you to look before you leap.

      Keep the input coming!
      Are you sure. lol

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764897].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Frank,

    I don't see anything you wrote as negative. I see it as a positive post from someone that has more history than me in doing this type of project.

    I would be lying to say my initial reaction was one of joy in reading of your post. But now that I've read it a couple times I am glad you laid it out there.

    Now you said you were trying to talk me out of THIS model but not of a directory, per se. You've seen a glimpse of what I had in mind - how would you change it if I may ask?

    A couple things to clarify my post. The invitation to write articles or tips by the listee is up to them and there wouldn't be any attempt to get them to do something they don't want to do. It's an option that would give them more exposure if they wanted it. If not it would never become an issue.

    And as far as the private area, I see what you mean by immediate return. Everything there would be designed to give return - immediate and long term. I know these guys - they want to add to the bottom line and don't care much about other things, even important things - like many of us.

    And yes I'm up for more punishment - wait I mean input if you have other ideas.

    Mark
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764920].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author zoro
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Frank,

      I don't see anything you wrote as negative. I see it as a positive post from someone that has more history than me in doing this type of project.

      I would be lying to say my initial reaction was one of joy in reading of your post. But now that I've read it a couple times I am glad you laid it out there.

      Now you said you were trying to talk me out of THIS model but not of a directory, per se. You've seen a glimpse of what I had in mind - how would you change it if I may ask?

      A couple things to clarify my post. The invitation to write articles or tips by the listee is up to them and there wouldn't be any attempt to get them to do something they don't want to do. It's an option that would give them more exposure if they wanted it. If not it would never become an issue.

      And as far as the private area, I see what you mean by immediate return. Everything there would be designed to give return - immediate and long term. I know these guys - they want to add to the bottom line and don't care much about other things, even important things - like many of us.

      And yes I'm up for more punishment - wait I mean input if you have other ideas.

      Mark
      Great to read all these helpful posts. I am also wanting to start a local directory, see my thread here http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...on-places.html and I will be using Social Directory.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764945].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Frank,I don't see anything you wrote as negative. Mark
      Great. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that. I was just toddling off to bed as my dog makes sure that my day starts at 5AM. I'll be happy to pick this up with you, tomorrow.

      Tomorrow is a big day for me as I will get to see the unveiling of my newly redesigned directory site. I am quite excited. It looks like I am good to go for a January 2nd relaunch, barring any disasters, tomorrow. Fingers, crossed.

      Have a good night.

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764990].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
        A weird thing I see lately is city newspapers doing "directories" and even some "groupon" deal sites.....just another foreboding that soon they are going to close up as who really reads the newspaper anymore?

        Locally I have seen a few other "directories" trying to get a foothold without too much success. One offered free listings about 2 years ago and has yet to get many paid listings - at this point it looks like all are free and they are trying to make some $$ off affiliate links?

        On the other hand....there was this guy named Craig .....and a lady named Angie LOL>> and look at those sites now

        One thing I do agree on : business owners, contractors, and the like will NOT sit down and write articles. I also think the "behind the scenes" members only area won't be of much perceived value to them.

        Get them customers....leads...that will interest them.

        There are just so many directories out there - go to yext and check out all the diffeent ones. I guess there is always room for one more with a different "twist"?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9765212].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Underground
          Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

          A weird thing I see lately is city newspapers doing "directories" and even some "groupon" deal sites.....just another foreboding that soon they are going to close up as who really reads the newspaper anymore?

          Locally I have seen a few other "directories" trying to get a foothold without too much success. One offered free listings about 2 years ago and has yet to get many paid listings - at this point it looks like all are free and they are trying to make some $$ off affiliate links?

          On the other hand....there was this guy named Craig .....and a lady named Angie LOL>> and look at those sites now

          One thing I do agree on : business owners, contractors, and the like will NOT sit down and write articles. I also think the "behind the scenes" members only area won't be of much perceived value to them.

          Get them customers....leads...that will interest them.

          There are just so many directories out there - go to yext and check out all the diffeent ones. I guess there is always room for one more with a different "twist"?

          Good post. As a sole revenue generator by itself, I would avoid it.

          The functionality of the site itself should not be the end goal in itself. These are the tools to help you provide a service that appeals to both sets of users, non-commercial and commercial.


          It's easy to buy any script these days and get any functionality you want for. But the successful businesses have something beyond that that draws people in.

          Could be a simple concept like Craiglist, or one like the highly successful Gumtree (which is like Craiglist, but much better), which started as classified for Australian, Kiwi and South African ex-pats in London to find lodgings, jobs and all the other stuff they need.

          Just a simple concept for the brand, that was more than just the mechanics.

          There is plenty of scope to build niche communities, where there is little competition.

          You could target an age group. A geo-location. A professional or just an affinity group.

          Something that is more relevant and personalized to a certain group, rather then a general one.

          Do the directory model to just any business, is not impossible, but the hardest, longest route.

          If you start something with a genuine interest in the subject beyond money, you don't need to try to be everything to everyone, just the people relevant to what you do. Just make sure there is a big enough audience there to make it worthwhile. And think beyond just one site. There's many different types you could create to serve and grow a certain community. Directories are just one.

          Here's a social network and community about Dr's with 300,000 members. SERMO: An online doctors lounge, polls, curbsides and more Check it out. Particular the bit about what Dr's can do on there. They care and give thought to their users and offer them many different options to engage and make use of the community.

          It's not for the Warrior Mindset. That's about chasing the money, looking for easy methods and doing things half-arsed.

          You have to be much more serious and committed than that.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9765770].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Frank,

      I don't see anything you wrote as negative. I see it as a positive post from someone that has more history than me in doing this type of project.
      Well, that's nice but history, by itself is meaningless. I know people that have been married for 50 years, but that doesn't mean that they're any good at it. We need to focus on success with the realization that in this type of business model, success is years in the making.
      I would be lying to say my initial reaction was one of joy in reading of your post. But now that I've read it a couple times I am glad you laid it out there.
      My intentions are pure in motive and my heart is firmly planted in the right place. Life is short and we should not waste a minute of it by going down a very dark rabbit hole of exploration. If I can supply you with a flashlight and a rough map, hopefully I will save you some precious time on your journey.
      Now you said you were trying to talk me out of THIS model but not of a directory, per se. You've seen a glimpse of what I had in mind - how would you change it if I may ask?
      I can't really speak to that because niche marketing is a beast unto itself and each niche has its own particular challenges that may not exists in another, although some of the challenges are universal.

      Only you know the aspects of your business model that you may feel your experience in your niche gives you an advantage in setting up a directory in that category. I just don't believe that niche directories offer the same advantages as doing a local business directory. By working in and promoting a local community and its representative businesses you gain an edge in marketing with each new business you include in your directory, free or paid. Each one becomes an evangelist for your directory if you provide them with the means to do so. They can be an endless stream of referrals and the source of incredibly powerful cross-promotion activities. You get to leverage organizations such as your local Chamber of Commerce and small business associations. You can even start your own group to tie-in such as a local co-op, using the directory as one of the benefits of being a co-op member while getting members to offer professional discounts to other members, thereby enticing even more members. There is virtually no limit to what you can do in your own backyard. Unlike myself, you may be an outgoing individual that enjoys meeting new people and presenting your ideas in a group setting such as a Chamber luncheon. The more you can actually meet people, the easier it is to build a local entity.

      As I sit here writing this I realize that I have literally a hundred different ways to start, market and grow a local business directory, but I have not segregated or organized my thoughts and they are all over the map, swirling around in my head.

      Yes, I am slowly implementing these into my own business model, but I have a distinct disadvantage that most don't have to contend with. I basically do everything on my own and my plan requires either one of two things. Either I learn to trust others and start to delegate certain aspects of my project, or I must be comfortable in the fact that it could take me another year to get everyting I want to do to reach fruition. Honestly, I'm more comfortable with the latter, so I will probably just keep plodding along at my chosen pace, which does vary widely from week to week. I have the distinct advantage of not having to worry about how long it takes to show a profit. I'm more interested in the challenge of taking a huge project and its associated pieces and putting them into place, one at a time. I'm not sure that you have that luxury.

      I just don't feel that I can be of much service to you in setting up a directory in any specific niche. My own personal experience has taught me that it is a path rife with major disappointment and little chance of success. I'm not one for quitting anything, so rather than spend a lot of time that would only result in failure and disappointment, I changed course, early on.

      I am a known quantity in my local community. I have worked with the Chamber of Commerce activating new members, the Better Business Bureau managing their membership development and retention department and the local Sheriff's office in setting up their "10 Most Wanted" website. I have sponsored their 'Crime Expo' three years running. While none of these efforts are going to win me the Nobel Peace Prize, they help me get my foot in any door. Once I do, I defy you to try and close it on me. lol
      A couple things to clarify my post. The invitation to write articles or tips by the listee is up to them and there wouldn't be any attempt to get them to do something they don't want to do. It's an option that would give them more exposure if they wanted it. If not it would never become an issue.
      I understand, but what you need to understand is they simply will not participate. Oh, you'll get the occasional article, but it will be rare and it might not be worth diddly-squat. What if you don't think it's an asset to your effort? Are you going to put it up in spite of that fact so as to not alienate the contributor? No - you want complete control of what goes on your site and when. This idea won't fly.
      And as far as the private area, I see what you mean by immediate return. Everything there would be designed to give return - immediate and long term. I know these guys - they want to add to the bottom line and don't care much about other things, even important things - like many of us.
      That is a contradictory statement. They want - but they don't care. Hmmm. Sounds exactly like the rest of the human race. In other words, they want something and are prepared to give nothing. That should get you to the poorhouse in record time.
      And yes I'm up for more punishment - wait I mean input if you have other ideas. Mark
      Well, I can only help you with what I know and warn you about what I have encountered. It seems that you will be more comfortable and have a much greater interest in doing a niche directory. That's fine and I would be glad to help you in any way that I can but as I stated I just don't know how much help I can be in that regard once we get past employing the proper tools and basic organizational steps. After that you would be pretty much on your own.

      All I can say to help you get off on the right foot and not waste time by having to start over is to NOT employ a $50 WP theme and a directory plugin. If you do, you are dead in the water and you will discover that very early on. If you are serious about starting a directory site then you need a platform as robust as the major players in the industry. If you don't approach it from that aspect you will reach critical mass early and discover that your platform will leave you woefully short of what you envision as the level of success you hope to achieve.

      I apologize if this was all over the map and a bit incoherent. I'm not a morning person and all of my synapses are not yet firing. Unfortunately if I did not write this now, I probably would not have been able to get to it for days. I need 3 of me to keep up. I had a new Mac delivered a week ago and all I have been able to do in a week is partition the hard drive. Today I get to see the new version of my directory and that means that for the next week I'll be tying up loose ends for a relaunch on the 2nd. I'm serious when I tell you that this is one of the best investments I have ever made. The difference between running a directory on a top-tiered platform and a WordPress solution is equivalent to the difference between driving a Yugo and a Tesla.

      If I can do anything to help you get started, just ask. The next couple of weeks are going to be very challenging for me but after that I will have much more time to work with you in any way you feel may be beneficial to your efforts.

      I'd like to leave you with two final thoughts, if I may:

      1. It's better to be a big fish in a small pond.

      2. Life is short - go long!

      Cheers. - Frank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9765856].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    On the surface 2 different, opposite sets of feedback, lol.


    Frank is right in that expecting other trade professionals to write articles is a non-starter and should be scrapped. You will need to pay for them to be written, rather than expect you can build a site that will compel people to write articles for you for free.

    Unless you build a niche blog with tons of subscribers, then you could attract guest bloggers. You have to ask, is there a hungry audience out their for that type of content in your vicinity. I'd just assumed there would be because where I live there is major hungry audience for all the types of content my sites produce.

    You will never get anyone unless there is a clear belief on their part that contributing content can get them in front of people fast and is a great promotional opportunity.

    Come at and ask me if I want to write a free article for your site, with nothing in return, then it's not happening. Come at me at the right moment, when I have something big to promote, and tell me you love my stuff, think your audience of 5000 keen niche enthusiasts would to and would I be interested in an indepth feature and get a chance to promote myself to them, well that's different entirely.

    I've always had great success and response rates when approaching people with interviews and features because I realized how to pitch it and made sure I've had an audience of around 1000 and impressed on them the interview of feature would get them in front of the audience.

    I left a lot out of my reply. I seek to learn from the best and find the best, optimum method of doing anything in my business. I've seen people take the interview method from a course, and create a joke of site, poor presentation, mundane questions, no audience to promote the interview to and get nowhere.

    Then on the other side of the spectrum, there is Trent Dyrsmid who created a brand identity and niche following. And I just got part way through a course by David Garland on how he created his brand, positioned himself and managed to get interviews with people like Guy Kawasaki, Seth Godin, and Tim Ferress, and he had some great things to teach.

    So you are thinking correctly, writing down ideas, soliciting and listening to feedback.

    And if you have no pre-existing audience of niche consumer enthusiasts in the area waiting to be tapped and who would be part of a community, I would take Franks advice and not try to force the issue, and go with another angle.

    If there is a passionate audience there, in enough numbers, and you have the interest and desire to put in the work over the next few years (yes, years) to keep going and commit to learning all there is about how to build user-generated sites, how to market them and grow an audience, how to position and brand yourself, how to approach others to get them to respond, then it can be very rewarding and create great traffic and even fulfilment.

    Like this guy. London Real Or the countless others who have formed communities out of using the right principles on a passionate audience.


    I'm glad Frank replied as he did, because he made me realize that I'd made things appear far easier and straight-forward than they are. I can already do the things above, but it's taken me years to get to that point.

    You won't be able to start from scratch and meet with success straight away. But I know you will over the long-term whatever you do. But there is a reason college degrees usually take 3-4 years of constant study to complete.

    Because some subjects just take that long. Master the digital environment and learning to be successful is one of them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9764985].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Yeah, definitely go for a php script over wordpress if you plan on building something major.

    While you could pick up a php script like this for around $30:

    PHP Scripts - Liquid Listings PHP Business Directory | CodeCanyon

    You have to make sure there support is solid or that you have people on hand who are expert in php. Far less straight-forward to customize on your own. So support and customization will add to the costs.

    But function so much smoother than wp.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9766010].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Hi Mark,

    A few things...

    I would put everything on a single domain. The reason is, you'll be working with a database(s). Maintaining and updating multiple databases across multiple domains will be a real hassle IMO.

    Next, in SEO terms you'll need to "turn the database inside out". The search engines can't/don't spider databases. You need to make sure you can pull the content onto pages in a SE friendly way. Also, you want to be able to simply link to search results by using a URL so the SEs can following the URL and "think" it's a page. I can't remember which, but this is done by using either the "post" or "get" method with the CGI. Your developer should know which to use.

    Also, consider the 80/20 rule. California has over 20% of the US population. Toss in NY, Texas and Florida and you have a good chunk of the US covered.

    Also consider offering something like a Spanish language directory. There's little or no competition for this with a large and growing demographic in the US. Think California, Texas and Florida.
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9766179].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Really though, is a directory the best bet for you? If so, and you're going local then, like Frank says, you should forget trying to specialize.

    If niche, you should be going national, all through one site.

    Can you build a hybrid of niche site/directory? Sure, with a big enough niche and doing things optimally. In the document below, they've create a market place segment where they list businesses for 500 and offer other options, which they have enough purchase with their targeted audience to be able to do that.


    Question is, can you build an asset and a site that can attract a certain demographic in a decent number?

    Is a directory the best way to build that audience? For the business model of using it as a foot in the door with business owners, it can one of the best, but that is not the only model you can use.

    I'm going to show you what started me on building a network of sites to attract a certain demographic in the first place, and why I decided to build a whole set of sites for that target demographic, of which the directory is just a part of that.

    I hope it gives you the food for thought that is should. The trouble with expert advice like you are receiving on this thread from people who have been there, that it won't really resonate or have the impact it should to dissuade you anyway from taking a punt. It really only would if you had some kind of experience already to be able to relate it to real life. So I hope the financial figures in document below will arrest you and help make the paradigm shift out of the usually chase the money warrior mindset into one of business builder with a long-term perspective, like we are trying to point out in this thread.

    Frank is giving the best advice you can. It's going to take years, so don't rush into something just because you want to and think it might be a good idea, only for it not to be.


    But look at the kind of money you can make if you had an audience of around 40,000 people making up a certain target demographic:

    http://www.lodgingmagazine.com/wp-co...diaKit2015.pdf

    This is the rate card for a magazine. They have digital and email options. $2500 to send an email? These are going rates in advertising.

    My advice is to think beyond the directory model for now for how you could build a site to attract and audience first, provided you know there is an audience there.

    Then work out whether a directory is the best way to do that.

    Then, whatever you decide, realize, like Frank says, success is measured in years, and a lot of investment is going to be needed.


    You've got great advice in this thread, you can ignore it. But you'd only set you self up for the chronic cycle most people are on or chasing an idea, giving it a shot, getting nowhere or very little results and then moving on.


    Begin with end in mind and you'll actually have a chance at building something successful. The big money is having an audience you can promote other businesses to. They will pay you handsomely, and all you have to do is add the banner html to certain sections of your site for a certain period of time.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9766438].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    One little tidbit I didn't mention is that most of the time I'm not local to anywhere to attend Chamber meetings, rub shoulders, go door to door, etc. because I'm an expat . I love doing those kinds of things and a big chunk of previous success has been based on those kinds of relationships and presentations.

    When I am "local", the population is spread kind of far and wide - half mil over 11 counties with the largest city at about 190,000 50 miles from my base. Someone above mentioned Madison, WI as being too small for a local directory but it has about 50,000 more population than the big city here.

    This all complicates things a bit. My current "offline" clients are all also spread out.

    One of the things I've been trying to figure out in all this is how to continue doing what I am good at in my situation and its difficult to find that right balance without a current local (US) base. Mind you, I could have that base tomorrow and work in the local area I mentioned above. This is a possibility being discussed. It would just take some pretty big life changing adjustments.

    Mark
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9766589].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Underground
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      One little tidbit I didn't mention is that most of the time I'm not local to anywhere to attend Chamber meetings, rub shoulders, go door to door, etc. because I'm an expat . I love doing those kinds of things and a big chunk of previous success has been based on those kinds of relationships and presentations.

      When I am "local", the population is spread kind of far and wide - half mil over 11 counties with the largest city at about 190,000 50 miles from my base. Someone above mentioned Madison, WI as being too small for a local directory but it has about 50,000 more population than the big city here.

      This all complicates things a bit. My current "offline" clients are all also spread out.

      One of the things I've been trying to figure out in all this is how to continue doing what I am good at in my situation and its difficult to find that right balance without a current local (US) base. Mind you, I could have that base tomorrow and work in the local area I mentioned above. This is a possibility being discussed. It would just take some pretty big life changing adjustments.

      Mark
      If you do relocate for work, then a good way to test the concept fairly cheaply is with building apps first and testing your concept, without the massive commitment to building a site and going all in from the outset.

      http://codecanyon.net/category/mobile

      Grab one from here, perhaps just the deals app, add a bit of dummy content, and go out for weekend running your idea by business owners in that area. It might even be a good foot in the door itself, and you could upsell your other services once you've got them on your app.

      That might be enough. I only ever intended to create a directory to break the ice with business owners but now have expanded beyond that. But if I was still at that stage, I'd get an app first and start with that and go from there.

      Do that, and you'll avoid all the learning curves and blind-allies me and Frank faced going it alone in the dark.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9766694].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      "Bases" are relative in todays world. The biggest key in developing a local directory is having the "physical address" for Google / Bing / Yahoo Business. You say you can up root and be in your desired target tomorrow. So I am going to assume you have friends or family in the area. you simply use their address.

      Because you have that "Base" potential.. Im going to let you in on a little secret. You can visit, the location you are wanting to target. You walk into your cel phone carriers local office ( there ) and get a new phone. This handy dandy new phone is going to have a "Local" number. So you go back to where ever it is you live and you can now call and do business as tho you are "Local" ( and of course dealing with Google, you will want to use this number as well )

      IF you have set up your directory correctly... it should for the most part be self service on the clients end. The need to do face to face may arise, and you simply place a couple appointments together and make that happen. but the reality is, you probably wont have to ever worry about it.

      190,000 + population is MORE than enough for a local directory. I would venture to say there is probably something like 10,000+ listings in the yellow pages based on that population.

      So why did I mention the yellow pages? well its pretty simple really. It is your basic up to date ( as long as you are using the most recent copy ) set of data you can get your hands on. with bit of engineering you can actually "scrape" online yellow pages and pull all of this information into the likes of excel, and then export / import using CSV.

      I more than highly suggest populating before publishing. just get all the work out of the way. Not to mention you are getting all of the "free' listings out of the way allowing you to focus on "PAID" listings.

      DONT walk into this thinking you are going to make $50 a month from each listing it is just a plain out silly notion.. I just does not happen any more ( unless the site traffic can dictate otherwise ). I tend to go with $5.00 a month, or $50 a year 1 time payment in the first year of development. ONCE you have traffic you can build up the monthly fee.

      unlike some others that have spoken, I see this as a business model, and not some tripwire or value added service. Done correctly... there is without question money to be made.

      In your development stages think of this. your purpose is to serve the community your are covering. other than being "the yellow pages" what information can you provide? What separates that community from others around it? What festivals does it have? Is the community active in the "Arts" ( theatre, local music scene, art shows, etc )

      1 of the things that I do, is provide premium listings for the police stations, for the fire stations for the hospitals, and for localized state agencies ( Health and Human Resources etc ) I do the same for others that give back to the community.. Goodwill, Salvation Army, Soup Kitchens, Animal Shelters etc. ( Many of these will allow you to place a 8.5 x 11 flyer in their location saying something to the effect of "Check out our listing at www .whatever .com/location name.

      If its good for the community, it will be good for you.




      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      One little tidbit I didn't mention is that most of the time I'm not local to anywhere to attend Chamber meetings, rub shoulders, go door to door, etc. because I'm an expat . I love doing those kinds of things and a big chunk of previous success has been based on those kinds of relationships and presentations.

      When I am "local", the population is spread kind of far and wide - half mil over 11 counties with the largest city at about 190,000 50 miles from my base. Someone above mentioned Madison, WI as being too small for a local directory but it has about 50,000 more population than the big city here.

      This all complicates things a bit. My current "offline" clients are all also spread out.

      One of the things I've been trying to figure out in all this is how to continue doing what I am good at in my situation and its difficult to find that right balance without a current local (US) base. Mind you, I could have that base tomorrow and work in the local area I mentioned above. This is a possibility being discussed. It would just take some pretty big life changing adjustments.

      Mark
      Signature
      Success is an ACT not an idea
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9766853].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Underground
    Mark, you are getting a lot of info here and it's easy to get overwhelmed. But I want to point out the advice you've got on this thread is not the usually opinionated waffle and conjecture from people with theory. You have a rare thing where three people who have analysed and dissected the model, applied and learnt all they can. So don't skimp over anything.

    I'd advise coming back to this thread a few times and re-reading and going through the sources shared. They are not just good ideas. They are the some of the best example you can get of the model in action.

    Sermo have perfected that niche community kind of thing you were mulling over, and provide a perfect model for you to through, deconstruct and apply the best elements if you wanted.

    The Listing mag example below is 105 local business ads, and 30 odd features/articles per issue. Every month their mag is packed out with advertisers.

    The rate-card contains a complete digital advertising revenue model already, which includes a model where they sell directory placements for $500 a time. Etc.


    The social method from themezoom is the best your gonna get and a much better entry-level upsell than trying to sell premium listings on a site with little traffic.

    Here's another great example of a niche directory: http://www.agencycentral.co.uk/agencyarea/index.html

    Don't overlook them. I did a hell of a lot of research in the time I wasn't able to put things into action due to life circumstances and these recommendations are some of the best of the best models.

    When people tell success is measured in years, that doesn't mean you can't get something going and start making money soon. It's just that you have to have a long-term view of the business and prepared to commit to that.


    Even putting money aside in consideration if you have to. The average fool would laugh at that notion, but there's a guy here, Mike Cooch, who went a year without taking payment so he could cover payroll, as has launched 2 multi-millon dollar businesses.


    I'd correct Savidge. I don't see this model as simply a throwaway value added thing or simply a trip-wire. I see the money from premium listings (which I don't think is an attractive proposition to bank on until you get big, heavy traffic. Yellow actually charge around 400 for a featured listing), or other promotional methods I mentioned at a low rate,as just an easy POS sale upsell, and the entry level purchase. I mentioned I'd use instead are just the start of the revenue generation of this model. But it is only one site to do that for me of a network. I don't have any throwaway sites where I only give scant consideration to. I want to build as big an audience and database as possible of consumers and business owners, and create as many chances to promote them as possible across as many platforms as possible.

    The real way I plan to monetize is to upsell on my other promotional and advertising packages, like Yell did with partnering with a video production firm and selling 8000 videos to businesses in 9 months. I have a video production section of my business too. It's about building a database of local business owners who know, like, trust and respect my brand and who I can market to and monetize. I think this should be anyone's primary goal. Plus grow a list of consumers on the front-end to monetize later, using the kind of advertising and promotional model outlined in the media kit from that digital magazine.

    And for space in a ''directory book'', or some kind of nice print document, that I will create, like a directory firm in the UK does, sending one out every year, like Bob Ross's kind of thing. It's still a viable model. I'll be replicating this more though than the Thompson's print directory, due to me not going for major size with my directory. Again, look how many ads there are in this mag and how many people are willing to pay them for ad space:

    ISSUU - The Listing Magazine by The Listing


    I'll all about building website assets that offer quality to both front end users and commercial users and provides great value. Building a strong brand, with a loyal following and database I can market to and generate revenue from in a variety of ways without every getting desperate and relying on just one or too.

    It's a good model. There's money in it. But don't take the minor premium listing fee as the top end of the revenue you can generate. That should just be the starting point. The entry level stuff.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9767130].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Savidge4,

    Are you still using GeoDirectory? If so, what are your thoughts?

    Anyone,

    So if I go with the non-niche local/small region type directory that includes all the doctors, lawyers, plumbers, insurance agents, grocery stores, printers, feed stores, movie theaters, etc.in the area as a lead generator as I've mentioned, but my marketing services are more based on let's say healthcare professionals, wouldn't that be kind of a waste? Sure I can help everyone with their marketing but what I know, let's say, is healthcare and that is what I want to focus on.

    Again, thanks for all the input.

    Mark
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9767937].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Savidge4,

      Are you still using GeoDirectory? If so, what are your thoughts?

      Anyone,

      So if I go with the non-niche local/small region type directory that includes all the doctors, lawyers, plumbers, insurance agents, grocery stores, printers, feed stores, movie theaters, etc.in the area as a lead generator as I've mentioned, but my marketing services are more based on let's say healthcare professionals, wouldn't that be kind of a waste? Sure I can help everyone with their marketing but what I know, let's say, is healthcare and that is what I want to focus on.

      Again, thanks for all the input.

      Mark
      I am finding it to be rather solid. I have made some "Modifications" along the way to better suit my overall needs, but I think that is part of the process. AND actually having the ability to do such things doesn't hurt.

      My one catch in the process is the map function. Most of these Directories are now including cool map features showing pins for all of the locations. The problem is they all use Google Maps to do this. Its not that Google maps is the issue per say. Its the fact that Google Maps DOES have bandwidth restrictions on an IP's use of their "free" service.

      Communicating with Google to determine the threshold has been uh interesting to say the least. Talking to Google at times is like talking to the IRS or Social Security... you have to specifically ask the right question, without asking or answering the wrong one.

      I like to start things a bit on the lean side, so the map question has been a hurdle in the process. At the moment I am siding towards not having the map feature to start and then bringing it in as a site upgrade at a later point.

      Other than that... it is with out question giving me anything and everything I need. I must say the tech support has been better than helpful, to the point I can now just call them, ask a specific question and there is not a hesitation at all in getting a direct answer. ( in getting this level of support it doesn't hurt to run a good sized well known wordpress forum )

      ++++++++++++++++++++++

      To answer the second comment / statement... As WDR so nicely stated.. developing what you want to be a successful directory is probably not a one man show. I personally have been there done that, and have more than once / 5 times had the fortune of selling before it got way out of control.

      IF you are looking at the directory as a source of Lead Gen, then I would niche down. go with what you know as you stated. I personally... I would flip the concept, and not use the Directory as lead gen, but use it as a value added position in your other marketing efforts.

      I might suggest if you have not read this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...on-places.html Zoro ( The OP ) is looking to develop a directory as well. His direction of thought is using a Facebook tabs set up. I am going to be honest here and say as much as I have worked with Facebook tabs, this option had never crossed my mind with my project. It is now.

      If you read one of my responses in that thread you will see that I break down his decently specific demographics. I show what will and will not work and why. In your case the numbers would be the opposite to that example. Local Facebook traffic is SPECIFICALLY what you would be looking for. That would be the same method in your case I would use to produce leads.

      Without question as I mention on that thread as well, I would approach your efforts from both the web and the Facebook aspect.. why wouldn't you?

      The danger you face with running the web based directory on its own, is the value for the client. By signing up for a "Paid" listing what are they getting in return? You just started the thing up, and you have little traffic. basically where are the RESULTS?

      Starting a client relationship selling a service / product that provides little to no results is not such a good idea. However, integrate the Facebook efforts into the equation for you ( and Zoro as well ) and that gets you somewhere.

      I will tell you in my own efforts I have put the word out already that I am looking to hire someone to develop Facebook tabs specifically. that will be all they do. ( if you are reading this and looking for a job PLEASE DO NOT contact me... UNLESS you live within 50 miles of Bridgeport WV. - I DONT OUTSOURCE )

      The value in the Facebook based directory, and then the added service value in developing client tabs is HUGE.

      Like I said, using the web based effort as the bait, is not such a good idea. It does have value, justnot in that manor.
      Signature
      Success is an ACT not an idea
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9768232].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
        Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

        Without question as I mention on that thread as well, I would approach your efforts from both the web and the Facebook aspect.. why wouldn't you?
        In that other thread they are talking about a FB only directory using the new software. Are you saying to tie that software based FB directory into the other standalone directory so you'd in effect have 2 directories? Not too clear about this part.

        Also if the web based directory is national in nature, would you have 150 (or whatever) local FB pages (Atlanta, Raleigh, Tallahassee, etc.)

        And last, there are always so many warnings about letting someone else hold your eggs because they don't care about your eggs and may throw out the entire basket (shut down your page). Would you not worry about this aspect?

        Thanks for all the input everyone has shared on this thread,

        Mark
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9814210].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author savidge4
          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          In that other thread they are talking about a FB only directory using the new software. Are you saying to tie that software based FB directory into the other standalone directory so you'd in effect have 2 directories? Not too clear about this part.
          Yes that is correct. A web based directory, and a FB based directory. My personal reasoning is this. I believe that any and ever element of online activity is a piece to a puzzle. each piece of this puzzle has a "Function" Right in line with my beliefs and practices of a website. each page has a function. A homepage has a function. A squeeze page has a function. A Product page has a function.

          In my world... FB is a traffic source / Source of an SEO footprint. This directory concept DOES by all means extend that function a bit... but over all... it is what it is and it is a traffic source / Social footprint.

          More specifically there are some numbers that need to be looked at when you are considering now with this product. A web only directory, a FB only directory or the combination of both. If you go to post #9 here I break down some demographic numbers of web vs. FB numbers http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...-business.html I think the numbers speak volumes to this 2 tier philosophy

          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          Also if the web based directory is national in nature, would you have 150 (or whatever) local FB pages (Atlanta, Raleigh, Tallahassee, etc.)
          Me personally? YES by all means. I am currently working on a Directory of Mexico. I have it broken into 17 categories / cities. I will be developing 17 city specific FB directories. Again, a piece to the puzzle, and I use Facebook as a traffic generator, as well as a SEO element.

          The moment something becomes an SEO element, the consideration of CONTEXT comes into play. A Houston chiropractor FB page is going to match in CONTEXT linking to a Houston chiropractor landing page on your site. VS. a listing of national locations of chiropractor landing on a page that is linked to a bunch of cities.

          The later example linking to a link page will only increase the bounce factor. People want to select an option, and click a button, and be directed to THAT information.. not another series of choice. No matching content based on CONTEXT = BOUNCE.

          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

          And last, there are always so many warnings about letting someone else hold your eggs because they don't care about your eggs and may throw out the entire basket (shut down your page). Would you not worry about this aspect?
          I personally take this to a bit of an extreme on "Bigger" projects. Yes what you say is absolutely true. to put all your eggs in the FB basket, I don't think is a good idea. I also don't think that a single website is a good idea. I currently am also working on a MLM thing. The basic services on the main site are Music, Shopping, and Travel. I am along sided this page developing a Music specific site as well as a Travel specific site. Not so much for the targeting principles but as an added piece of "Incase" insurance.

          If something were to happen to the primary site, for whatever reason, I would have a platform to quickly expand and replace the lost leg. A simple site wide redirect on the lost URL to the newly expanded site, and everything remains constant. REDUNDANCY is your friend... but only if you implement it!
          Signature
          Success is an ACT not an idea
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9814453].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author WDR
    A local directory is a geographical niche, as opposed to a topical niche, but still a niche. The point is that unless you are able to hire staff, you have to restrict your target to something that you can achieve by yourself.

    Most new directories fail within a year because the directory owners underestimate the amount of work that is involved, while overestimating the early income possibilities. They get discouraged or they are forced to busy themselves with other things in order to pay the bills, and by the time their domain comes up for renewal, it doesn't seem worth it.

    That doesn't mean that directories are a bad idea. I have been working as a directory editor for over a decade, have worked for several directories, and currently have a directory of directories and a couple of other directory-related sites.

    There is a future for web directories but most new directories fail within a year and a large percentage of the sites that are currently masquerading as web directories should do us all a favor and give it up.

    New niche directories have a better chance than general directories, but that doesn't mean that it will be easy. Mark, I think you mentioned earlier that you would be including other content beyond a straight web directory. That's a good idea, but I don't think you can depend on others within the industry to provide the content for you, although it's certainly worth a try.

    Some of the older, well established web directories are able to coast on their well earned reputation and authority but new directories have to try harder in order to compete. Every industry has to be willing to evolve with the times, and this is true of web directories as well.

    At its root, a web directory is a website, and we can expect to find well-written, unique, useful textual content on a website. That's what visitors to the site read, and that's what search engine spiders index. It's not easy, these days, for a site that contains nothing but outgoing links to rank well in search engine results.

    However, by including rich textual content, you will be providing something of value beyond the outgoing links that you'll be including. Using the standard features of a web directory script, that could include long category descriptions and truly descriptive site descriptions that are unique to your directory, rather than being the same thing that has been submitted to a hundred other web directories.

    Of course, if you are willing and able to go beyond the standard features of a web directory script, you could include pretty much anything, integrating the web directory script into a larger content site that could rank well on its own.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9767991].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author iisark
    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    What are the pros and cons of having one big national directory (Directory of US Massage Therapists) versus having let's say 150 separate local directories (Directory of Boston Massage Therapists)?
    Hi Mark Singletary,

    I'm in the directory business since 2006 and can tell you for sure - create 1 national directory for your niche. There is no need to build separate directories for each city because:

    1. You need to manage hundreds of sites
    2. You need to buy hundreds of domains.
    3. You need hundreds of databases
    3. You need to do SEO & Marketing for every single site on your network.

    And finally, and maybe most importantly - if you build authority for you national directory, all of the pages/cities will start to rank well on Google. I think building authority for only 1 directory is much easier task.

    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    If going the separate route, would you have 150 different domains like BostonMassageTherapists.com, LasVegasMassageTherapists.com or would you do subdomains?
    As i said above - build only 1 national directory. The best practices are to use subdomains or subdirectories for each city e.g.:

    london.yourdirectory.com

    or

    yourdirectory.com/london

    I personally prefer second method because subdirectories are always considered as a part of the main site.

    One more tip - when you are choosing a domain name for your directory, don't use your keyword in it, e.g BestPlumbers. com (keyword "Plumber") If your directory experienced a rapid growth you can consider to exapnd it and to add other categories like Builders,Carpenters...
    Signature

    UK Business Directory - http://toppages.co.uk

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9790679].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author premdayalprem
      I Personally asked,

      If directory sites are still working, it gives traffic. I tried so many sites but not indexed in google. Any other way to index directory sites
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9792182].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author iisark
        Originally Posted by premdayalprem View Post

        I Personally asked,

        If directory sites are still working, it gives traffic. I tried so many sites but not indexed in google. Any other way to index directory sites
        Google doesn't index/rank junk direcotires anymore. You need to spend time and money to build high quality direcotry to eventually start monetize it. When you are creating your directory ask yourself the question: "Is it useful for the users?"
        Signature

        UK Business Directory - http://toppages.co.uk

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9792554].message }}

Trending Topics